#maneless lion

[describe-things]

Maned Lioness and Maneless Lion pride flags

Pride flags for anyone who identifies as, or with the concept of a maned lioness or a maneless lion, for any reason, including But Not Limited To: being intersex, gender nonconforming, trans in any way (and of any gender), or alterhuman/otherkin!

The colors were picked from photos of real lions and lionesses, and are completely symmetrical to represent how there's no "wrong way" to be a maned lioness or a maneless lion. There is no gender requirement for either flag.

Other people with completely different genders to you might identify as the same one as you, and this is a good thing. Have pride in your community. There is no wrong way to be a maneless lion or maned lioness. There is no gender requirement or policing.

Insert pride puns here.

These pride flags and icons are Public Domain, meaning there is no copyright on them, and you can do Literally Anything you want with them, at all. (Because there's no point in making a "pride flag" if no one is allowed to actually use it as a pride flag)

[ID: Three versions of two pride flags, both with seven horizontal and symetrical stripes, with the top, bottom, and center stripes being the same color. The first is the Maned Lioness pride flag, with stripes of: Black, tan, light brown, black, light brown, tan, and black. The first version of the flag has a white icon of a maned lionness in the center, with a spiky mane. The second version has just the stripes. The first version is the icon against a white background, with the flag stripes inside the lines of the icon itself. The second flag is the Maneless Lion pride flag, with stripes of: very soft gold, tan, light brown, soft gold, light brown, tan, and soft gold. The first version of the flag has the head of a maneless lion in the center in white. The second version has just the stripes, and the last version is the icon itself against a black background, with the stripes inside the icon. End ID.]

All of these images are archived on the Internet Archive. This post will be saved to the Wayback Machine as soon as it is posted. You are encouraged to download and share these anywhere and everywhere you want. Just please include the relevant sections of the image description for accessibility.

Again. Cannot stress this enough. There are no gender requirements for either of these terms.

You might identify with the same term here as a woman, or a man, or a nonbinary person. This is not a bad thing. This is fantastic. Celebrate your shared pride and have joy in your community.

Protect everyone around you just as strongly as lions defend members of their own prides, no matter the differences between you, whether you're a maned lioness or a maneless lion, or neither, or something in between.

Bare your collective teeth at those who want to harm us all.

[snep-arts]

learning that there isnt really an animal called panther is wild kinda like figuring that santa isnt real

[doritopaw101]

Love you A

[forffax]

tryin to decide what breed of sheep furry thana would be...

[t-ki]

i need 2 make a lion fursona like i need oxygen

[serpentface]

GUARDIAN LIONS

An Odomache guardian lion cult statue (alabaster with gold plating and inlaid pearl and lapis lazuli), of the curved-reposed maned lioness variant.

Guardian lions are a Wardi architectural/artistic motif that confers protective benefits to the buildings or utilitarian objects on which they are placed. The practice of artworks depicting lions as place-guardians long predates the Faith of the Seven Faced God, and has been translated into contemporary practice as aspects of the Face Odomache.

This Face has core functions as a representation of sovereignty and military might, but additionally is interpreted as both a protective patriarch and nurturing mother to Its people. Lions represent this function well, as a powerful and venerated animal capable of both tremendous ferocity and gentleness (these functions combined in their renowned fierce protection of their own cubs).

Guardian lions come in three distinct sex variants, which impart different meanings.

Male guardian lions most typically are used to represent the Patriarch Odomache, the Face as a divine father that watches over the collective household of Its people. This iconography is most common in architectural guardian lions placed upon homes, as a representative of the father's intended function as the protector and arbiter of his family. They effectively 'guard' the culturally important private familial sphere, with their presence being a reminder to potential trespassers (literal and figurative) that retribution will be severe.

Maneless guardian lionesses are used to represent Odomache as a protector of pregnant women and children, in a form that suggests both an underlying ferocity and a feminine ideal of gentle nurturing. These are less common than the other variants, and mostly appear on smaller art and ritual objects used in conjunction with pregnancy and childrearing. Their most prominent core use is being a standard decoration on the carved ox horns used by midwives to bear oil (anointed upon mothers and newborns) and to pass over women in labor for spiritual protection. They're also common as small art objects or toys for babies and young children.

Maned guardian lionesses express a totality of these functions. Core depictions of the Face Odomache usually use a maned lioness, with the androgyny unifying Its functions as the Patriarch and the nurturing mother into a protective guardian mother to the collective people. These depictions have ubiquitous uses (the only context you Rarely see them in are as household guardians), and are the typical variant seen in important public spaces, and standard as cult statues to Odomache.

The guardian lion is a very old motif with regional variants, and comes in a variety of stylistic forms. There is very little standardization to the style (with some standardized elements only just beginning to develop in cult objects in recent history). However, there are very well-established conventions for the lion's posture that often distinguishes these guardian figures from non-functional, generic lion art, and imply more specified meanings.

STANDARD POSTURES:

Nursing lioness:

Glazed pottery nursing lioness. This is a decorative art object with guardian functions, likely to be placed near a child's bed.

The lion is at rest, belly turned out to the side to expose teats (occasionally accompanied by suckling cubs). Some unique variants are partially anthropomorphized, placing humanoid breasts in the chest area (rather than the more typical anatomically accurate teats). The posture is relaxed but alert, and will be positioned so that the face looks upon the point of approach. This pose is almost exclusively used for guardian lions as protectors for children, displaying a fierce animal mother figure in an entirely gentle, nurturing form.

Reposed:

Unpainted stone statue of a reposed male lion.

The lion is at rest. There is little active threat in its pose, instead invoking a relaxed, self-assured guardian. This motif appears often in non location-specific decoration or general public spaces.

Curved reposed:

Sketch of the curved-reposed alabaster maned lioness as seen from above, as it would appear in a temple shrine. A bowl is placed for libations, a tray for small offerings of flowers and grain.

The lion is at rest, with its front positioned to confront the viewer while the length of its body is simultaneously visible. It is a relaxed pose in a resting position, but the body's contortion makes it more confrontational towards onlookers, suggesting that a cautious and humble approach is necessary. This is most common in cult statues (where offerings will be placed along the length of its body).

Seated:

Seated Loberan house statue guardian, painted stone.

The lion is seated on its haunches, suggesting watchful alertness and an implied threat, but that the animal is secure in its strength and at rest. This type is the most common as an architectural feature for homes, representing patriarchal guardianship of the family and the domestic sphere within. This pose is almost always male, with very occasional maned lioness variants.

Standing/Striding:

Painted marble statue showing a standing/striding maned lioness. The statue is three dimensional with its sides carved in high relief; the pose will appear to be static when viewed from the front, and is mid-stride from the sides. The tail between the legs is unusual for a guardian lion motif and its placement is entirely due to the physical restrictions of this statue's form.

The lion is standing at attention or depicted mid-stride (often both simultaneously), suggesting readiness to strike. This confers a sense active protection and intimidation, and most often appears flanking the entrance in high status public spaces like temples and palaces. As a person approaches a standing+striding variant, they are greeted with a static front staring them down, and the lion appears to walk as they pass, suggesting they have entered an important space being guarded with high alertness- they can feel safe under its active protection (or know that it can and will (figuratively) come after them if they are a trespasser).

Conquering:

An oil lamp depicting a conquering maned lioness. The trampled figure's nudity in this context codifies him as a 'barbarian', while the artificially lengthened skull and long beard distinctly identifies him as a Finn king. This is a piece in the ancient artistic tradition known as 'seething and coping'.

The guardian lion stands over and/or actively tramples a prone form, usually human. It shows the conclusion of the guardian lion's function- the defeat and subduing of a threatening enemy. This enemy figure will often be expressed as a generic 'barbarian' (usually coded via nudity) or representing a specific population by depicting recognizable (real or imagined) practices of dress and adornment. Animals sometimes appear as 'enemies' instead, which can vary depending on the purpose- a dog (generally disliked animal) casts the enemy figure as pathetic and easily destroyed, a king hyena or crocodile (respected/feared large predators) casts the enemy as powerful but overcome by greater might.

This motif most often occurs in art used in state/military contexts (where it quite literally shows an embodiment of the state trampling a foreign enemy to death), but is used in everyday objects as well. The 'enemy' figure (whether a human caricature or an animal) can represent any number of threats perceived by an everyday person - bad luck, curses, a hated neighbor, thieves, livestock predators - and conveys a guardian spirit overcoming these threats.

[ihopesocomic]

That "everything My Pride got wrong about lions" list you mentioned in one of previous asks? Would love to actually see that 👀

We don't have an exact "list" per se but here's the main things that spring to mind that are shown in MP that are factually incorrect:

Prides are led by a single male and no other male may have control of the pride: incorrect. Prides can and will consist of more than one male and males will sometimes team up to run out the resident male or males.

Lions can bite through a rival's mane: a lion's mane is like thick, fluffy armour that protects the throat and it absolutely cannot be penetrated in the manner like Quick did with Starmane. This is why lions actually opt to attack the face, the back, or the hips.

Lionesses do not defend their cubs from rogue males: lionesses absolutely do defend their cubs from males, including those that are related to them by blood, such as the father. They're very protective mothers. There's even reports of lionesses running their cubs away from the pride and hiding them so the rogue male cannot find them.

Lions are active during the day: lions are actually crepuscular and more active at dawn, dusk and at night for the African nights are cooler and present better hunting opportunities. They tend to rest during the day. I know there are instances where this isn't the case, but that just comes with being opportunistic hunters. They will also hunt during storms, uilitising the weather to their advantage. Hence why Travellers have names related to the weather. We just thought it was a cool fact.

Lions have slit pupils: lions, like all big cats, have round pupils. There are theories as to why this is, but at the end of the day, only domestic cats have slit pupils.

Male lions are called manes: Yes, we know that this is a xenofiction thing and MP has every right to adopt their own vocabulary, but people literally think that male lions in a pride are called "manes" and male lions not in a pride are called "no-manes". So apparently it needs to be said that male lions are simply called lions, and females are lionesses.

Tsavo lions are a subspecies of lions that do not develop full manes: So, this appears to be a misconception that some MP fans have walked away with and I just want to correct the record on this. Tsavo lions are not a subspecies of the African lion. They are named after the geographical location where maneless lions are more apparent, because geography and environment seems to have an effect on how a lion's mane forms. Lions are sensitive to heat, so the hotter a region is, the less likely a mane is to form. The Tsavo region is known to be hot and dry and this is why lions there have problems developing a full mane. Genetics is also theorised to play a role. Such a thing has also been observed in West African regions and Ancient Egyptian art has also depicted maneless lions. It's also worth noting that Asiatic lions also have smaller manes than their African counterparts due to Asia having a hotter climate. This is why some of our characters like Fade and Larkspur do not have full manes. Both of them have either been raised in a desert region or a region adjacent to a desert and the heat has affected them developing a full mane. So, Moonstrike being described as a Tsavo lion was completely pointless and confusing. I can only assume it was Tribble trying to flex her lion knowledge but she also didn't even bother to explore why exactly Tsavo has a connection to maneless lions, thus fans assuming that the lack of a mane is down to Moonstrike being part of some sort of subspecies. I'm probably missing some things out but this is what I have so far. - RJ

[bhaalschosen]

*hits your favorite characters with my furryfication beam*

anyway these probably don't count as actual art cause i just drew over screenshots but i wanted to post them anyway because they're funny. i turned them into furries.

ketheric thorm (grey wolf), orin the red (dog, borzoi), enver gortash (maneless/scanty mane african lion)

+ astarion (domestic cat, turkish angora) and shadowheart ('silver fox' which is just a melanistic red fox)

who should i do next? suggestions or screenshots. i will take them

[thedovahtamer]

Maneless lion

[graytrailcam]

Indie Xenofiction; Data Lion

"Data Lion is a short visual novel about a lion who gets a camera collar put on him by a group of scientists wanting to document his journey. It has choices, 2 love interests, and many alternate endings including bad ends (game overs)!

The idea was inspired by masterpieces like The Lion King and the manga/anime Kimba The White Lion."

Found this game while searching around on Itchio, the game is completely free to download and can be completed within just a few hours. It is described by the author as being unfinished in its current state, but I think it can be played through completely with a feeling of some satisfaction. Here is the link for those interested

More in depth review under the cut featuring spoilers. If you're looking to play I do recommend going in blind, it's fairly simple and the fun is really found in unlocking the CGs, which isn't too hard to do.

This is a short game that reminds me a lot of media I grew up with on dA back in the day, so it was very entertaining. I can definitely tell this takes a lot more inspiration from Kimba than it does TLK with a lot of its story concepts and overall character design. The game itself runs on a seven day cycle so it's fairly short.

I enjoyed the main character's design, he's an intersex, mostly maneless lion that you can name, though the default name that pops up is 'Lion McLionface' (your character was supposedly named via an Internet poll made by the scientists attaching your radio collar)

You're also able to choose your stats, as this game does have (extremely basic and limited) combat. For my playthrough I named the lion 'Lasaga' to be a bit silly and I dumped all my stats into strength.

I'm not really sure what the stats of Skill and Speed do for you. I completed the game by getting all the CGs and didn't encounter anything that was explicitly skill or speed required, perhaps it has a factor in combat that I'm unaware of.

You make a series of choices, some meaningful some not as most of them lead to the same exact events playing out. You can acquire the only pickable item, a thorn you can use in combat, in the game earlier on based on where you choose to make your home if you pick the Acacia Tree.

At some point a Safari Car will come by and observe you, if you make the right dialogue choices you can get some exposition on the setting you're in.

The animals in this particular section of Africa are apparently Bio-Engineered to have heightened, near human intelligence. The author of the game, Caveboy Tup has elaborated in a comment on the game's itchio page which I'll leave below;

This is definitely something that shows a lot of Kimba inspiration though it goes in a different direction that has some interesting implications. I would have been interested to see this explored in a more elaborate narrative.

The two love interests in this game are Jetsway and Rrred;

Their routes are very straight forward, I'd say you would have to really go out of your way to not pursue either of them, which makes it easy to pick and choose which one you 'romance', as it's also pretty bare bones in that regard too.

The one most advertised is definitely Rrred the lion who is featured more prominently on the game's page. He's not got a whole lot of depth, you have the choice to fight him or join up with him in a coalition immediately upon meeting him.

I do like the game's expression work, I find the animals emote in ways that are fun to look at and easy to read.

If you defeat him he will simply retreat and will show up again later to give some brief exposition on Jetsway's character.

Joining up with him starts his short route, which mostly consists of him scaring off crocodiles at the watering hole for you, which you are able to avoid without him regardless (The only time my character got a bad end was when I chose the wrong evasion option at this point in the story) The other portion is an encounter with a clan of hyenas that was pretty comedic, this got a good laugh out of me. It was the only time the game was particularly vulgar.

You escape the hyenas, as you are outnumbered no matter how high your strength stat is. The rest of the route is pretty uneventful, you travel together and it's implied there's some romantic interest between the two of you.

I will admit I found Rrred to be the less interesting of the two routes but I can see what appeal they were going for here.

The other route is Jetsway's which I found to have slightly more meat on its bones.

You meet Jetsway first in fact while looking for food but he only says that the radio collar you have on means you aren't one of his 'targets' before sprinting away.

Encountering him later finds him injured in the middle of the night after a fight.

There's more lore exposition with Jetsway regarding the largely left out bio-engineering aspect. He's some creature part of Glo's work that was created by them, it's specified he has some sort of Tech in his eye that isn't explained very much.

Poking around the dialogue options with him will give you the option of fighting him once he reveals he got these injuries fighting and killing lions, which explains why he specified you weren't a target earlier.

Upon defeating him, you can kill him here which I found interesting. But you can also choose to stay the night and nurse his wounds until he recovers.

You are given the option to walk him back home, and doing so will trigger an interaction between you two and Rrred, who calls Jetsway a murderer. Pushing Jetsway for more answers will only get you this in response.

There is no further elaboration on this plot point after this. I assume given the larger narrative that was mentioned by the creator that he's killing lions that are either human aggressive or resistant/unsuccessful in the Bio Engineering stuff. But that's only an educated guess.

Walking him home will after lead you to Utke town, where he says the humans will give him more medical treatment but that your character cannot stay.

You're able to stay the night, where you'll find Jetsway gone in the morning, but you are spotted by a Glo operative prior to this who takes this photo of you and Jetsway to 'share on the internet'.

After these two CG's, the final day is always the same. Your radio collar falls off on the seventh day and the scientists come to retrieve it. You have two options after this, to hide in wait to observe the humans at first, which will lead to you being tranquilized again while they retrieve your collar.

You can also attack the scientists, which will result in you ripping off the arm of one of them, the one named Saito.

They escape you after this, and leads to the final CG where Saito has been given a replacement prosthetic arm.

This concludes the game as currently published. I found it very charming to play and a nice way to spend part of an afternoon. It was definitely worth sharing since I haven't seen anyone discuss playing it or knowing it exists.

[laikaflash]

Prototype of my king Marrikh's heir Kafziel. Long story short: I named him after Zasalamel's scythe because I'm running out of names and that one's not taken yet. The game is reminding me to pick an heir soon, so I tested some decors in the wardrobe. I'll have to see how all of Marrikh's markings look on this base later. Fool that I was, I forgot to use a certain item to pass down his mother's rosette marking and I'm still kind of bitter about that.

I've actually used some of these decors while trying to recreate Zasalamel in the wardrobe, but not very well. Head coverings on maneless male lions tend to look like they'd fall off, but oh well.

Decors:

Unbroken Oath: The glowing eye things. He's already got Intense Gold eyes, funnily enough.

Necklace of Infinity: Not very visible here, but trust me. Closest I can get to the infinity symbol accoutrements on most of Zas' 1P outfits.

Augur Hood [Favor]: The only September event decor here, but it fits nicely.

White Shendyt: Not much in the way of full-body decors that would suit him, nor ones that don't overlap weirdly on the hood.

Hieroglyph Bracelets: One of the less busy June event decors; I can only get so elaborate right now.

Idol of Thoth: The blade of Zas' scythe looks like a stylized ibis, doesn't it?

[matoitech]

every time i mess around with design ideas for a maneless lion guy oc i havent succeeded in getting attached to the design, but theyre fun to make n sell and i like where i ended up w this one

[sweetmonsooncos]

Tumblr, I would like to introduce to you...

DENNIS POLNAREFF

I don't have space in my wig storage box for this wig, so my teddy Dennis is now cosplaying Polnareff

For anyone interested: Dennis is a maneless lion that I've had since I was little and he is so treasured as my Mum made him!!! She never got around to making a mane for him, so he is a maneless lion and I like to think of him as a genderbending icon

In this house, we stan Dennis ❤️

[theflaggerrrr]

OOOHHH IT WOULD GO SO HARD FOR AN INTERSEX TERM,, I WAS THINKING ABOUT HOW SOME LIONESSES TAKE ON MANES/MASC FEATURES BUT INTERSEX TERMS ARE ALWAYS SO TASTY

YEAH!!! I don't do intersex terms, but if anybody wants to... ^_^

ALSO maneless lion would go hard too

[clwhowrites]

A Trade With The Ghoul King

The place was dark, smelled of dirt, rotting compost, and rotting meat. Main Allan stood in the dank room holding a lantern. He could hear creatures moving in the darkness outside the illuminated aria.

Finally one spoke, it had claimed to be the Ghoul King. “Do you have it?” It asked greedily.

“I do.” Main replied. He took an old piece of jewelry out of his pocket, tarnished and scratched.

“Give it to me!” The Ghoul King demanded, “Give it to me! It is mine!”

“Yours? It belonged to a woman named Julia.”

“Dead! Dead and gone she was. Three days dead, with mold and maggots for flavor. Dead and gone from age, our bellies she filled. No more need for trinkets. Mine now it is!”

The thought of these creatures feasting on the old lady sickened him. He thought of Melanie, imagining her bloated corpse being eaten by these creatures. He told himself that he would not let that happen, that her would save her, even if it cost him his soul.

“Return what is mine!” The Ghouls King yelled. Main could hear movement around him, just outside the light of the lantern.

“I will return it in exchange for someone.”

“Someone? Bodies we have, festering and bloated.”

“I have her body, I need her soul.”

The King was silent, Main could hear deep and guttural ghoulish murmurings around him, in a grotesque language not meant for human ears. “You seek to do an unholy act?” The Ghouls King finally asked.

“My beloved was taken by consumption, she is now a sleeping beauty waiting for me to wake her. I promised to save her, I swore to God I would bring her back even if I have to move heaven and earth!”

“We do not collect souls, we take the bodies of the dead.”

“But you live at the edge of life and death, you know the paths between this world and the next.”

“There is only the path of fools!” There seemed to be some level of concern in the Ghoul Kings voice, not for Main himself. Maybe concern for what such a mad man would do.

“I may be a fool, but I will bring my beloved back, one way or another! Even if it damns me!”

Main heard more of the guttural Ghulish language. “If you insist, me you fallow.” The King told Main

“How can I follow you if I don’t see you?”

“My voice you follow.” The King paused, “this way.” The voice of the Ghoul King was moving to the left of Main.

Main followed the Ghoul King down a passage, the King keeping ahead of the light from the lantern. The passage was carved out of stone with murals on the walls. The murals showed the corpses of great hairy elephantine beasts, maneless Lions, Hippos, and humans. The humans wore pelts and had tools made of stone. Further on the murals documented what looked like a Ghoul war ending the the coronation of a king. Main saw images of Ghouls, grotesque in form with pale skin, pug noses, pointed ears that stuck out, large dark eyes, sharp teeth but with expensive fabrics and jewelry. Each image with some kind of writing underneath. The writing continued, line after line. More depictions of the bodies of people, ancient people, then Celtic, then Roman, and onto modern people. The writing continued, it wasn’t of the Latin alphabet, or Greek, or runic, nor cuneiform or Chinese. It looked scratched into the wall in countless shapes.

“This is your history?” Main asked.

“Long we live, much we forget. Create records on the walls so we do not forget.”

“Really?” Main replied skeptically.

“Two thousand years I have reigned. My predecessor reigned for four thousand years. Fifteen generations my kin have ruled.”

“That would be tens of thousands of years.” Main spoke with disbelief.

“Yes. Fae, and Elf, and Dwarf they called us. Some even thought us gods.”

Main looked at the murals.

“How can you live so long?”

“Old we are, older than man and beast. For us the world was made, a would of death and rot for us to eat.

Main looked at the darkness ahead of him, he couldn’t believe what the Ghoul King said, it went against everything he had learned, everything the church taught him, everything his alchemical studies told him, everything his occult studies told him.

“Stop,” The King told Main.

Main stopped at a fork in the passage. To his left a passage led to a room with an open metal door.

“In there, there is the path to what you seek.”

Main walked slowly to the door. A strong smell of rot and death came from the room. He looked back before entering the room, the Ghoul King kept out of the light. The room was a dead end, the door slammed shut, Main heard the door lock. He turned around, pulled on the door, banged on the door.

“There is only one path to what you seek, the path of fools, the path of death. When three days dead you are, with mold and maggots for flavor, we will eat and what is mine will be mine again!”

Main banged on the door, demanded to be let out but no one replied. The stench burned his eyes, made him sick. Main looked around the room for another way out, he only found stone walls and rotting corpses. His head hurt, he felt dizzy. Main noticed the light dimming, the lantern still had plenty of oil but the flame was dying.

Images by Igor Cokrlic, Anemone123, and ha11ok from Pixabay used in header.

Did you like this? Hated but enjoyed getting angry at it? Than support my work at Ko-Fi or Subscribe Star and check out my other work and art at C.L. Who Writes

[kingbryancroidragon]

ThunderCats? Oh, I'm familiar with it.

I was first introduced to it via reruns on Teletoon Retro. I think I was fifteen, but I'd watch it every day. I love the animated medium, whenever I am writing a story, I picture the characters as being traditionally animated. I loved the show and when the 2011 series came along, I was watching it on YouTube and another site, I forget the name, until it finally came to Teletoon years later.

I've never seen ThunderCats Go. I never will, but I have read about it and would like to see some things re-imagined outside of a comedy series.

Favourite characters? Well, I love tigers and Smilodon so Tygra and Grune are really up there. Bengali too, but I just have to say this and I know I'm going to get hate for this, but with the knowledge that white tigers are brought about by things like inbreeding, I'd like to see Bengali re-imagined as a golden tiger. If I were to write my own ThunderCats, which doubtless would never become a television series, I'd have him as a Golden tiger.

With "The Mummy" being one of my favourite film franchises, naturally Mumm-Ra is also one of my favourites and I don't know, but I've always found that we've never gotten an Aztec version of him a missed opportunity.

I love the franchise, I'm enjoying the new comics and maybe some day, I'll do a some posts commenting on various things, like how I'd personally like to see other species of cats included. Snow leopards, servals, caracals, ocelots, pallas cats, for God's sake give us more! Maybe give us a Dinofelis and a Homotherium too... And a cave lion... And some maneless lions like the Tsavo Man-Eaters too.

Sorry, got a bit side-tracked there.