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possessedopossum · 3 months ago

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Antivan crows treatment [obviously spoilers]

I do NOT agree with the popular sentiment that the crows got sanitized in this game. I DO have questions about crow related writing choices but this is not the choice I have problems with.

Showing one concept, event, place or a person from multiple perspectives is one of the core features of dragon age series. We always had different and sometimes contradicting views on the same thing. For example, the Circle as Vivienne sees it and the Circle as Anders sees it are two very different Circles. It's not bad writing, it's how biases, personal experiences and opinions work. I would like to remind you that Solas says about spirits' perspectives on Ostagar – no matter how different the visions are, they are both real.

Zevran and Lucanis are different as night and day. Obviously a whore's son (no offense) and first talon's grandchild would have different experiences. So would crow Rook, who gets special princess treatment from Viago, also a talon. So would Viago, who is the antivan king's bastard. So would Teia, who considers the crows her family, since she never had one to begin with. They all either joined the crows willingly or were born into it. They weren't sold to the crows by brothel madam like Zevran was.

And at the end of the day, the crows are still assassins. Even being first talon's favorite grandchild won't save you from abuse and literal torture. You are still supposed to undergo the harsh training that will leave you without food and water for days and Maker knows what else. You still work with people who strive for power and would do anything to obtain it. House Arannai changed 6 talons throughout 20 years. Half of the talons were murdered in tevinter nights by the traitor who sold them out to qunari. Dellamorte family almost got wiped out. Some npc casually says Viago would be very sad if he had to kill crow Rook but that he would still do it anyway if necessary. The crows literally made Jacobus, a literal child, full fledged assassin in front of our eyes. What other proof of crows being shitty people need? A quest line where we personally torture children? Do you really want this to be so on the nose?

Yes, the crows are treated like the good guys by the narrative and there are pretty good reasons for that. 1) We can play as a crow and it SHOULD give us, the player, a bias 2) There are more important tasks at hand. We are fighting gods. We aren't fighting for the wellbeing of Antiva, we are fighting for the wellbeing of reality itself. With such high stakes crows shittyness is absolutely irrelevant 3) The crows are Antiva's one and only defense. No matter how shitty they are, without them, it will be worse 4) Glorification of organized crime is a thing that happens in real life and I thought we liked our games somewhat realistic.

I can go as far as sharing some personal info on the last part. I like the crows very much because I grew up in the area so riddled with crime an average person from rich white neighborhood would lose their mind. The best governor our fucked up city ever had was the local gangster. Crime was family business to him and that's why he cared for the city more than other governors – his children would have to live here after he dies. The dude killed people for money but the city was finally clean and pretty and much safer than it used to be. I don't have a problem with antivan crows being batman-ized because I've seen so happen irl. Is it sad that sometimes only mafia can keep a city from falling apart? Yes. But it is real and that's why it is beautiful. Veilguard feels very realistic to me and I don't get the bad writing claims. I guess our governor wasn't realistic enough, I'll tell him if I meet his ghost.

The problem I have with the crows is how the Ivenci/Butcher plot was handled. It felt like it was rushed and added at the last moment. I'm not against Ivenci as a villain, I am simply mourning the lost potential. The plot could have been much better if Rook started to suspect something is wrong on their own. Extra scenes with Butcher to flesh out the character more would have benefited the quest line. I'm glad that Veilguard added some positive qunari rep with Taash and Shathann but there could have been more. Bioware could have told us WHY the Butcher decided to desert. He seems to have more respect for qunari philosophy than other antaam leaders. Why couldn't he stay with his Arishok, then? There is a huge difference between bad writing and the lack of writing. Ivenci and Butcher aren't badly written, they simply lack screen time.

My overall opinion of the game is very positive. Yeah, it could have been better. But it also could have been much worse. There could always been more time to plan, more tools to use, more choices to explore. But things never work out the way you want them to. I think given the circumstances and EA's desire to make live service games, bioware gave us their best shot. Regret is nothing but pride, vanity and a waste of time. The game itself says so. And I would rather enjoy the game as it is than waste my time thinking what it could have been.

#dragon age the veilguard #dav #datv #antivan crows #meta #veilguard spoilers #dragon age spoilers

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escapismlover · 2 days ago

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hiiiii i really liked the quests post, what are the over the top ideas you d have for lucanis?

Hi anon!! Yes it would be my pleasure im glad you liked it

For context, this is the post they were talking about.

The reason why i called these quests extra or over the top is that they would require significant resources to be implemented as most of them have more dialogue, new locations and cutscenes. The purpose of these quests are not to davance Lucanis personal storyline but to showcase his skills as an assassin and a mage killer.

So, for who is interested, there s more under the cut 😊

"Minrathous Red" – Quest #1

The son of a Tevinter magister remained in Treviso after the occupation, but instead of hiding or fleeing, he revels in his palazzo, indulging in excess and cruelty. The city may have changed hands, but for him, it is still a playground of power and blood.

Lucanis asks you to accompany him to Treviso for a contract. Upon arrival, Teia informs you that the job was requested by the owner of a brothel—her workers are being terrorized, and some have been murdered by this rogue magister's son.

At this moment, Rook is given different dialogue choices based on their specialization:

Elven Rook: "I’ll enjoy serving justice."

Shadow Dragon Rook: "I hate it when Tevinter’s problems spill outside its borders."

Lof Rook: "Can I take any treasure I find inside while we,re there?"

(Cutscene ends.)

Journey to the Brothel (Ambient Banter)

As you and Lucanis walk through the misty streets of Treviso, the two of you banter about assassination and the art of taking down a mage. Lucanis explains the challenges: their reflexes, their barriers, their ability to turn the odds against you. You casually ask whether infiltrating the palazzo and seducing the magister’s son might be the easiest way in.

Lucanis scoffs. "That’s not my style. That’s more Illario’s specialty."

Meeting the Madam (Cutscene)

At the brothel, the madam provides details on how to infiltrate the palazzo. Before leaving, she offers her services—her girls, her boys, or anything else they might desire.

Lucanis, caught off guard, becomes flustered and awkwardly declines. Once the madam leaves, Rook can flirt:

Flirt Option: "Flustered, are we? And here I thought Antivans were famed for their passion."

Lucanis (smirking): "Again, that’s more Illario’s reputation than mine."

If Rook flirts again:

Rook: "I’m not so sure you lack your cousin’s passion."

Lucanis (raising an eyebrow): "Maybe I’m just more selective. I keep it for someone special."

(Cutscene ends. You leave for the palazzo.)

Infiltrating the Palazzo (Ambient Banter & Cutscene)

Sneaking through the back entrance, Lucanis reveals the plan: find the kitchen and poison the wine.

Rook is shocked—no direct fight?

Lucanis explains that assassination is not about brute force but about theatrics. The magister’s son should die in the midst of his own excess, a fitting end to a life of indulgence. Fighting a mage in closed quarters is a fool’s choice.

If Rook is a mage: They can joke about the unfair reputation.

Rook can also suggest seduction again.

Spite (deadpan): "Over my dead body."

Lucanis (shrugging): "Agree."

(Cutscene ends.)

The Assassination (Gameplay Sequence)

You sneak through the palazzo, poison the wine, and prepare to leave—but the guards catch on. A timed combat sequence begins: defeat them within one minute or the alarm will be raised.

Once the guards are dead, you escape.

Final Scene – Treviso Rooftops (Cutscene)

Perched on a rooftop, you and Lucanis watch through a window as the magister’s son drinks, the poison taking hold. The brothel staff cheer in the background.

Rook gets different dialogue choices:

Crow Rook: "Think I can ask for a commission?"

Lof Rook: "Disappointing. His treasure looked cheap."

Mourn Watch Rook: "May his spirit find peace. If it can."

You can then choose to approve or condemn the assassination.

Lucanis approves if you justify it.

He disapproves if you question the morality of the kill.

Lucanis then suggests heading out.

Flirt Option: "Not bad for a second date. Though the Dellamorte family has... unusual courtship practices."

Lucanis (flustered): "Second date? And the first was...?"

Before he can finish, Spite cuts in.

Spite (smirking): "Coffee. Lavender. Honey."

Lucanis blushes.

Alternatively, a Crow Rook can suggest lingering a little longer, enjoying the view of Treviso’s nightscape.

(Cutscene ends.)

"Just desserts" - Quest #2

Lucanis approaches you with another contract in Treviso, this time giving you a rare choice—you can refuse. If you do, he disapproves, and the quest disappears entirely, preventing a third mission from ever unlocking. If you accept, he simply nods and tells you to meet him when you're ready. Viago is waiting.

Quest Start: Meeting Viago

Arriving at the Cantori Diamond, you find Viago waiting on the terrace. Initiating conversation triggers a cutscene.

If Rook is a Crow, Viago greets them with open suspicion, asking Lucanis why he brought you to which you can answer in two ways:

(Angry) "What’s your problem?"

(Sarcastic) "You know you missed me."

If Rook is not a Crow, Viago is polite but measured:

"Glad you're here to keep Lucanis alive."

If Rook is Qunari, Viago mutters about how their size might draw attention but admits their skills make up for it.

He explains the contract: an elven apostate, Varlen, is terrorizing civilians. He slaughters innocents, hoping to earn the respect of the Antaam and prove himself worthy of joining them in their war, because they hate Tevinter.

A Shadow Dragon Rook can comment on how many elves despise the Magisters enough to turn to the Qun.

An Elven Rook can express understanding but condemn the path Varlen has chosen.

A LOF Rook can say how the Qun does not teach violence and that the antaam are no longer following it.

The contract comes from a local Chantry, which fears Varlen is leading people astray. (and diminishing their donations)

Rook can comment on their views of the Chantry. Special dialogue options appear for Dalish, Dwarven, and Qunari Rooks.

Phase 1: Investigating the Chantry

Lucanis and Rook travel to the desecrated Chantry to investigate. Inside, they find:

A blood-soaked altar, marked with Elven glyphs.

Corpses twisted by ancient magic.

A message on a note gripped up in the hand of a corpse, indicating Varlen’s next target—the Drowned District.

Phase 2: The Stray Children

Leaving the Chantry, they encounter a group of stray children, orphans of all races. They admire Lucanis, believing he will stop the horror.

Lucanis is kind but awkward, assuring them he will prevent more deaths.

One child mentions a legend—the Demon of Vyrantium, a Crow assassin who only kills mages.

Rook has dialogue options:

(Jokingly) "I wish he was here, too."

(Serious) "You're looking at him." (Points to Lucanis)

(Flirt) "Doesn't my companion here look like a charming prince who fixes everything?"

The child agrees and Lucanis is indeed very pretty.

Rook agrees. Another kid asks if they are together.

Lucanis chokes on his words, while Rook smirks, saying, "Not yet."

(Crow Rook) "We’re both Crows, friends of the Demon of Vyrantium. We’ll take care of this."

(Warden Rook) "Im a warden, killing monsters is what I do."

(LOF Rook) "Ever heard of the Lords of Fortune? There s no fight we turn back from"

The kids cheer.

Phase 3: The Boss Fight – Varlen, the Elven Wraith

Rushing to the Drowned District, they track Varlen surrounded by distorted nightmare of green fire and shifting shadows.

His form flickers, caught between the Fade and reality. First Phase: He summons spectral elven warriors while unleashing veilfire. Second Phase: He vanishes into the Fade, striking from nowhere. Playful Banter: During the fight, Rook can remind Lucanis that he said assassins should avoid fighting mages outright. Final Phase: His body twists grotesquely, revealing his full corruption.

Phase 4: The Aftermath (Decision Point)

After the battle, the illusions fade, revealing the truth—Varlen was a starving, desperate elf, not the grand villain he pretended to be.

Rook can respond:

(Veil Jumper Rook) "I knew it. The magic always leaves clues."

(Lof Rook) "There is no glory in this anymore."

Or one of the standard kind, joke, stoic ways

Lucanis and Rook debate what to do:

Kill him (Lucanis approves)

An Elven Rook can request to do it themselves, as a final honor.

If Lucanis does it, Rook can choose to watch or look away.

An Elven Rook can say a prayer over his body after he is dead. Or one of the standard kind, joke, stoic ways

Spare him (Lucanis disapproves, preventing the third quest from unlocking.)

Send him to prison (Lucanis disapproves and refuses to ask Rook for help in the future.)

(Warden Rook Only) Turn him over to the Wardens. (Lucanis disapproves, preventing the third quest from unlocking.)

Phase 5: Confronting Viago (Quest Conclusion)

Back at the Cantori Diamond, Viago waits on the terrace.

If Rook is a Crow and Varlen was killed:

Viago is surprised they didn’t mess it up and congratulates them before leaving.

If Rook is a Crow and Varlen was spared:

Viago furiously threatens to poison Rook for shaming House de Riva.

If Rook is a Crow and Varlen was imprisoned:

Viago scoffs, warning that Ivenci will never let this go. He adds Rook should maybe rething if being a crow is for them.

If Rook is not a Crow and Varlen was killed:

Viago thanks them for putting Lucanis back on his feet.

If Rook is not a Crow and Varlen was spared:

Viago mutters that Rook is a bad influence on Lucanis.

If Rook is not a Crow and Varlen was imprisoned:

Viago warns that Crow business should be handled by Crows.

Final Moment with Lucanis

Once alone, Lucanis reflects:

"I missed home. And didn’t, at the same time."

Rook has the 3 normal answers, kind, stoic or joke.

If Varlen was killed, Lucanis thanks them.

If Varlen was spared he says he understands, but will not ask for their help again.

If Varlen was imprisoned, he says it is the first time one of his targets lives.

Lucanis then watches the crows on the terrace socialising, musing how familiar yet distant they look.

Rook’s options:

(Normal) Respond in a kind, jokey or stoic way.

(Flirt) "You’re just bragging about those Dellamorte good looks."

(Crow Rook) "I get it. I’ve been gone a while too."

They return to the Lighthouse.

"Rook to Crow 5" – Quest #3

This quest serves a dual purpose: a contract and a showcase of assassination styles based on Rook’s class. During the final phase, Rook takes the lead, with the method varying by class.

Phase 1: The Contract

Lucanis approaches Rook with a new contract—this time, one he knows personally.

The target is an Antivan Circle Mage from a wealthy merchant family.

He was leaking supply routes to the Antaam and framing his older brother for treason.

His own family put out the contract.

Lucanis instructs Rook to meet him in Treviso to investigate the noble’s villa.

Phase 2: Gaining Entry

Upon arrival, a guard blocks entry. Rook can respond in different ways:

(Stoic) "Step aside. Now."

(Jokey) "C’mon, we both know I’m getting in anyway."

(Kind) "We’re only here to talk."

(Crow Rook) Cold intimidation: "Do you know who we are?"

(Mourn Watch Rook) Feigning duty: "We were summoned to tend to the dead."

(LoF Rook) "I’ve gotten into better-guarded places than this. Let’s not make it awkward."

The guard refuses regardless, forcing Lucanis to bribe him with a painfully large sum.

Inside, Rook can joke about the bribe:

(Stoic, Kind, Jokey answer available.)

(Flirt Option) "The Dellamorte funds aren’t the only thing where they’re well endowed huh"

Lucanis rolls his eyes but doesn’t refute it.

Phase 3: The Party & Intel Gathering

Inside, a lavish party of indulgence and vice is in full swing. Lucanis scoffs:

(Stoic) "Wastes of money and time."

(Jokey) "Not the worst way to spend a night."

(Kind) "People need their distractions, I suppose."

(LoF Rook) "Damn. I missed going to a party"

(Shadow Dragon Rook) "Minrathous has them beat in sheer opulence."

(Veil Jumper Rook) "Not quite the same as a good campfire gathering."

(Crow Rook) Rook greets an acquaintance, who salutes back.

If Crow Rook chose this, a bonus option appears:

Lucanis, watching closely, asks "Who was that?"

Rook can answer normally or choose (Flirt) "Are you jealous?" (grabbing his shirt).

Spite appears: "HE IS."

Lucanis, flustered: "Mierda. Not on the job."

If not, Lucanis answers to whatever rook answers and then says they should start gathering intel. Now any Rook can answer.

(Stoic) "You take the right, I take the left."

(Jokey) "Parties really are not your thing huh."

(Kind) "Right there ahead of you."

(Flirt) "Or we could join, if you want to?" (grabbing his shirt). Spite appears: "HE WANTS TO." Lucanis, flustered: "Mierda. Not on the job."

They eavesdrop and discover that the mage will be heading to the Entertainment District shortly.

Phase 4: The Entertainment District

As they walk toward the bridge leading to the Entertainment District, Lucanis and Rook discuss the contract’s moral gray area:

The mage’s mother put out a kill contract.

His father put out a protection contract.

The Crows had to choose.

Upon crossing the grand bridge lined with market stalls, they enter a vibrant piazza, filled with:

Dancers, singers, clowns, puppet theaters.

Colorful tents, flickering lanterns, and laughter.

As the mark approaches, Lucanis proposes a Rook to do the assasination:

(Option to refuse)

Lucanis understands and handles the kill himself.

The quest ends immediately, after a cutscene of Lucanis killing the mage.

If Rook accepts, they proceed based on their class.

Phase 5: The Assassination (Class-Based Execution)

Warrior Rook: Brute Force Assassination

Waits until the mark passes under an enclosed stone arch.

Smashes through the wall, crushing the mark, then escape.

Rogue Rook: Sleight of Hand Assassination

Blends into a dense crowd.

Silently kill the mark in a single motion.

Fades away before anyone notices.

Mage Rook: Arcane Execution (Death animation changes based on staff type)

Stays on an elevated platform, watching from above.

Necrotic Staff: Mark chokes on invisible poison.

Fire Staff: Mark bursts into flames—a freak accident.

Ice Staff: Mark freezes, then shatters.

Lightning Staff: Mark collapses, struck dead by an unseen force.

From the outside, all look like natural causes. The animation is very subtle, but different.

(Alternative: The Chaos Route)

Rook disregards the plan and attacks openly.

A boss fight ensues, causing the bridge to collapse.

The Entertainment District becomes inaccessible for the rest of the game.

Lucanis disapproves but remains understanding, escorting Rook back to the Lighthouse.

Phase 6: The Aftermath

If Rook followed the plan:

Lucanis smirks, impressed. "You might steal my job at this rate."

Rook can respond in:

(Kind, Fun, or Stoic way.)

(Crow Rook Option) "I want the payment for this one."

Lucanis is pleased no matter what.

Optional Flirtation:

Instead of immediately returning to the Lighthouse, Rook can extend the conversation.

Rook (Flirt Option): "You should let Spite out. I want to finish what we started at the party."

Lucanis smirks. "You can finish it with me. Not Spite."

He softens, offering to cook Rook’s favorite meal when they return.

Quest ends.

#dragon age #veilguard #datv critical #my post #rookanis #datv #bioware #crow rook #lucanis dellamorte #treviso #dragon age lucanis #lucanis romance #antivan crows #rewriting the veilguard

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