#lyculī sermōnēs

[lyculuscaelus]

So lately I’ve been seeing a lot of posts asking people to stop trying to make Odysseus look nice in their works cuz he’s a “messed-up person in the mythology”. Your opinion is valid however I have but one thing to point out:

You want to know who started all this? Who started to “make Odysseus look nice” in the first place?

It’s Homer. It’s nobody else but Homer himself.

A non-Homeric Odysseus would try to murder people out of his own interests. He’d murder Palamedes without remorse (and we’d be cheering over this but it’s a murder after all), he’d attempt to murder Diomedes just to get the Palladium himself, he’d volunteer to kill Astyanax…meanwhile you wouldn’t find any mention of either Palamedes or Nauplius in Homer’s poems, neither did he mention anything abt the Palladium heist (and Diomedes necessity did not happen until Conon’s version), the death of Astyanax, the distribution of war prizes, etc. And all the details in the Odyssey seemed to deny the existence of Nauplius’s vengeance at all, so Odysseus would not take any of the blame.

A non-Homeric Odysseus would be depicted as “cruel, treacherous”, meanwhile in book 10 of the Iliad Odysseus was not mentioned to have killed anyone during the marauding, neither did he promise Dolan anything at all. The negative interpretations are denied by these details subtly put by Homer.

A non-Homeric Odysseus would be widely known as a “coward” for only shooting arrows from afar. But Homer gave him a spear and had him absolutely slaying in both the Iliad and the Odyssey. That part of Ajax’s speech was invalid already.

Most importantly—a non-Homeric Odysseus would be having kids everywhere else, and the loyalty to his own wife as seen in the Odyssey is no where to be found. Meanwhile his lineage was a single-son line made by Zeus in the Odyssey, and his love for Penelope was one of his main drives, especially seen in book 5 of the Odyssey. He loved his family as a loving parent—something you don’t get to see in most of the non-Homeric writings—for most of the time they followed a different tradition indeed, in which Odysseus wasn’t half as nice as in the Odyssey.

TL;DR: in case you haven’t noticed, the characterization of the Homeric Odysseus was quite different from a non-Homeric version of Odysseus. It’s not that Homer didn’t know of the existence of other versions—he knew them too well, which is why in his version of the story, you don’t get to see any mention of them.

[lyculuscaelus]

It must have been tough, hiding inside the wooden horse hearing the voice of your wife and forcing yourself not to answer.

There, you can hear her calling your names, in the voice of Aegialeia, of Penelope, of Laodameia, and…in her own voice. Do you think Helen would’ve shed a tear when she called Menelaus’s name once again, without any false imitation, but simply as herself?

Menelaus, you were so eager to get up and answer, had Odysseus not stopped you and Diomedes. What were you about to say, Menelaus? That you will kill her where she stands, or that you have already forgiven your wife? Still, I knew it wasn’t just her beauty that spared her life.

And Diomedes—he must have been so in love with Aegialeia, before he went for war. He must have been so sorrowful, having to leave his homeland, upon his wife’s betrayal.

And Odysseus—do you think he would be sobbing in silence, just as a fighter moaning in his ship, a man cut off from his wife and pinned down by gales and raging seas? For wasn’t it Penelope’s voice he was hearing? What else could he do but to keep everyone in check, while clapping his hand over Anticlus’s mouth, keeping him silent—but wasn’t this also a reflection of the struggle in his own heart? Now, the things he’d do for her…

[lyculuscaelus]

The reason why the Telemachy isn’t included in Epic the musical (at least, the Wisdom Saga. I’m not sure if the lyrics of Hold Them Down will be changed), is simple.

Telemachus went to Pylos and Sparta seeking his father’s whereabouts. He learned that Odysseus were stuck on Ogygia from Menelaus, who had heard from Proteus. This part is of course changed into Athena’s time dive in Love In Paradise. So, it’s not for Telemachus to find out. It is different from the Odyssey while still serves the purpose of locating Odysseus. (And having Athena as the one to find out makes more sense in Epic, since she is the one who hasn’t been updated on Epic since the Cyclops Saga)

Another thing to think about is the role of Nestor and Menelaus in the Odyssey. They’re like an anchor between the Iliad and the Odyssey, filling in the knowledge of the return of those heroes we care about. It’s just like Odysseus’s meeting with Agamemnon, Achilles, and Ajax in the Underworld. Meanwhile, these heroes are only mentioned one line each in The Horse and the Infant. That is because they do not serve as part of Odysseus’s journey. And Epic is about Odysseus’s journey, not just the exterior but the inner one as well.

So, the Underworld Saga chooses to focus on Polites, Anticleia, Teiresias, and Odysseus himself, instead of having other heroes and famous women showing up. After all, it’s a musical. It’s those who can affect Odysseus’s decisions that’ll be introduced. It’s the same for the Wisdom Saga: Nestor’s and Menelaus’s yapping will only defocus the musical itself. So, the Telemachy is cut from the Wisdom Saga.

At the end of the day, it’s always good to remember that one should not expect to have everything in a musical. Epic has already made sacrifices like Ismarus and now Telemachy to get the story delivered musically. It simply cannot have everything as some are always expecting (partially due to the 40-song length restriction). Maybe things will be different if Jay decides to release songs that sever as DLCs for Epic. Maybe things will be different if Jay decides to go by his original idea of starting the musical with the Iliad, which will certainly brings the Trojan War into focus. But for now—I’ll just blast Little Wolf in my ears while simping Telestratus ship as one always should, because why not?

[lyculuscaelus]

The Odyssey, book 5, line 151–155:

τὸν δ᾽ ἄρ᾽ ἐπ᾽ ἀκτῆς εὗρε καθήμενον: οὐδέ ποτ᾽(1) ὄσσε δακρυόφιν τέρσοντο, κατείβετο δὲ γλυκὺς αἰὼν νόστον ὀδυρομένῳ, ἐπεὶ οὐκέτι ἥνδανε νύμφη.(2) ἀλλ᾽ ἦ τοι νύκτας μὲν ἰαύεσκεν καὶ ἀνάγκῃ(3) ἐν σπέσσι γλαφυροῖσι παρ᾽ οὐκ ἐθέλων ἐθελούσῃ:(4) She (Calypso) found him (Odysseus) sitting on the shore—never once were his eyes Dry of tears, while his sweet life was passing away Lamenting his homecoming, for the nymph no longer pleased him. But indeed in the nights he slept, by force, In her hollow caves, unwilling beside the willing (nymph).

(1) οὐδὲ ποτέ: this is a good phrase to invoke pathos, as we see οὐδέ, “never”, being put alongside ποτέ, “once, at any time”, showing the picture of Odysseus crying on Ogygia since day one, never once free from sorrow. Notice, too, how this phrase comes first and foremost, presenting itself as a lead-up to the entire sentence, overshadowing this part with a sense of melancholy.

(2) ἐπεὶ οὐκέτι ἥνδανε νύμφη: I’ve been seeing a lot of interpretations based on this one single sentence, “…since she no longer pleased him”—but you know what? Just a reminder that in Ancient Greek, the word ἥνδανε (it’s 1st person singular indicative form being ἁνδάνω), with the meaning “pleased, delight”, is mostly used in the context of “being pleased with ransoms/words/food and drink…”, which is anything that promises material gains:

(e.g. “ἀλλʼ οὐκ Ἀτρεΐδῃ Ἀγαμέμνονι ἥνδανε θυμῷ”, Iliad. 1.24: but it (Achaeans’ assent to Chryses’s speech that promised ransoms) did not please the heart of Agamemnon son of Atreus; “…ἐμῷ δ᾽ οὐχ ἥνδανε θυμῷ”, Odyssey. 10.373: but it (Circe’s urging of Odysseus to eat the food) did not please my heart; “…μάλιστα δὲ Πηνελοπείῃ / ἥνδανε μύθοισι…”, Odyssey, 16.397–398: but he (Amphinomus) pleased Penelope the most with his words; etc.)

Which means, in this case, the pleasure Calypso could’ve brought Odysseus was only material: food and drink to keep him from starving, shelter to keep him from dying… and nothing more.

(3) ἀνάγκῃ: the dative singular of the word ἀνάγκη means “force, constraint, necessity” and sometimes even more, “torture; anguish, pain” (the latter is more seen in tragic plays), but here I believe the former meaning alone is more than enough to demonstrate the lack of consent in Odysseus when he slept beside Calypso.

(4) παρ’ οὐκ ἐθέλων ἐθελούσῃ: I love this line so much—the way Homer uses the participle of the verb ἐθέλω “to be willing” twice, each in different gender—the masculine nominative one for Odysseus being οὐκ έθέλων “ not willing”, the feminine dative one for the nymph being ἐθελούσῃ “too willing”, and putting them together to fit both the meter and the theme? This is literally perfect.

[lyculuscaelus]

Telestratus

So, we have the word ὁμοφροσύνη (homophrosynē) which approximately means “like-mindedness, oneness of mind”. The word seems to be an ideal state for a man-woman relationship, as proclaimed by Odysseus in the Odyssey, book 6, line 180–185, when he was wishing Nausicaä the best kind of marriage:

σοὶ δὲ θεοὶ τόσα δοῖεν ὅσα φρεσὶ σῇσι μενοινᾷς, 180 ἄνδρα τε καὶ οἶκον, καὶ ὁμοφροσύνην ὀπάσειαν ἐσθλήν: οὐ μὲν γὰρ τοῦ γε κρεῖσσον καὶ ἄρειον, ἢ ὅθ᾽ ὁμοφρονέοντε νοήμασιν οἶκον ἔχητον ἀνὴρ ἠδὲ γυνή: πόλλ᾽ ἄλγεα δυσμενέεσσι, χάρματα δ᾽ εὐμενέτῃσι,  μάλιστα δέ τ᾽ ἔκλυον αὐτοί. 185 May the gods grant you all that your heart desires, A man and a household, and may they send with like-mindedness, A good gift—for nothing is better or greater than this, When a man and a woman maintain a household together, Their thoughts like-minded—a great pain for their enemies, Yet pleasure for well-wishers, and they know it best themselves.

Many scholars have been analyzing like-mindedness in man-woman relationships in Homeric epics, the most famous examples should be Odysseus and Penelope, Menelaus and Helen, etc. Apparently, like-mindedness is a strong bond to keep their family together, and their love intact.

But that’s not what I’m gonna do at the moment, cuz I’d like to bring up another text where this word appears once more in the Odyssey. Basically, Book 15, line 194–202, when Telemachus was asking Peisistratus not to bring him to the house and hear Nestor yapping this time:

καὶ τότε Τηλέμαχος προσεφώνεε Νέστορος υἱόν: ‘ 195 Νεστορίδη,  πῶς κέν μοι ὑποσχόμενος τελέσειας μῦθον ἐμόν; ξεῖνοι δὲ διαμπερὲς εὐχόμεθ᾽ εἶναι ἐκ πατέρων φιλότητος, ἀτὰρ καὶ ὁμήλικές εἰμεν: ἥδε δ᾽ ὁδὸς καὶ μᾶλλον ὁμοφροσύνῃσιν ἐνήσει. μή με παρὲξ ἄγε νῆα, διοτρεφές, ἀλλὰ λίπ᾽ αὐτοῦ, 200 μή μ᾽ ὁ γέρων ἀέκοντα κατάσχῃ ᾧ ἐνὶ οἴκῳ ἱέμενος φιλέειν: ἐμὲ δὲ χρεὼ θᾶσσον ἱκέσθαι. ’ And then Telemachus addressed the son of Nestor: “Son of Nestor, can you make me a promise and fulfill it, as an order of mine? We can claim that we’re guest-friends forever, Through our fathers’ friendship, but we’re also of the same age; And this journey will greatly inspire our like-mindedness. Don’t lead me past my ship, O you cherished by Zeus, but leave me here, In case that old man keeps me in his house against my will, Eager to treat me kindly; I need to go home quicker.”

So Homer, you’re telling me that Telemachus was using a word commonly used for the bond of a couple, to describe his relationship with Peisistratus???

…Sure. And they were roommates.

[lyculuscaelus]

So, for all who’re interested in Teiresias’s prophecy concerning Odysseus’s death, here’re some interpretations based on the meanings of certain words:

(Odyssey, book 11, line 134–137) … θάνατος δέ τοι ἐξ ἁλὸς αὐτῷ ἀβληχρὸς μάλα τοῖος ἐλεύσεται, ὅς κέ σε πέφνῃ γήραι ὕπο λιπαρῷ ἀρημένον: ἀμφὶ δὲ λαοὶ ὄλβιοι ἔσσονται …

First, let’s talk about “ἐξ ἁλός”.

The most direct meaning of the phrase is the physical motion to come “out of/from the sea”. It’s also logical to assume that the ἐξ ἁλός” here is the same as the one in “ἔνδιος δ᾽ ὁ γέρων ἦλθ᾽ ἐξ ἁλός” (from the Odyssey, book 4, line 450: “at midday that old man came out from the sea”, which is describing how Proteus emerged from the sea) so we’d have “θάνατος δέ τοι ἐξ ἁλὸς αὐτῷ … ἐλεύσεται” translated as “death will come to you out from the sea”. As for how it can be depicted—man, we’re now in AU territory.

Sometimes ἐκ (ἐξ) means “far from” as in distance. In this case the line could be translated as “death will come to you, far from the sea”. Maybe this indicates that Odysseus would die in a land far from Ithaca—or, hear me out: he died where the people he should seek on his oar quest lived (although unlikely during the first time he got there). If they knew nothing of the sea and salt, it’s only natural to suspect that they were themselves far from it. Which could be poetic to think abt—“you have found yourself a place to die, and when you’ve finished your life’s journey, when old age devours your health and your family, you shall head for that land again, to find your peace at last”.

ἅλς (ἁλός being its genitive singular) does not only mean “sea”—as a feminine noun, sure; but as a masculine noun it means “salt”. Meanwhile, there is another meaning of ἐκ (ἐξ), “because of” as in reason. Combining these two, we shall have: “death will come to you because of salt”, which is pretty funny to think about: what if he ate too much salt in a banquet and died of overconsumption? OR it could be…✨hypernatremia✨, since there’s a high chance that all these shipwrecks of his might result in the high concentration of salt in his blood. And this is quite angsty to think abt

Now, for “ἀβληχρός”.

People tend to separate the meaning of this word into two sets: “gentle, easy” (in contrast with a violent death) and then “feeble, weak” (as in description of Aphrodite’s hand). Personally, I’d use “tender” to translate the word since it sorta combined both meanings, being as vague as Homer himself cuz why not.

Specifically, “gentle”? What death could be so gentle, non-violent? Well, diseases, or organ failure, for one (bringing back the hypernatremia), which rather fits his old age as well.

As for “feeble”—I do believe this is a word too strong for this meaning as you’ll see why. “Weak, vulnerable” is fine imo, as long as it’s describing the potential of getting wounded, instead of the condition of being puny. But what’s a “weak death” anyway? I do think it makes more sense if the text goes like “a death will come to you when you’re weak/vulnerable” instead (say, using ἀβληχρῷ…but that doesn’t fit in the hexameter).

Now, here’s an idea I just think of, which is not necessarily the case, but the connection is still interesting. First of all let’s look at the description of Aphrodite’s hand: “ἔνθ᾽ ἐπορεξάμενος μεγαθύμου Τυδέος υἱὸς/ἄκρην οὔτασε χεῖρα μετάλμενος ὀξέϊ δουρὶ/ἀβληχρήν: …”, from the Iliad, book 5, line 337: “thereupon the great-hearted son of Tydeus, reaching forward and leaping upon her, wounded her tender hand on the surface with his sharp spear…”). Now connect this feature of Aphrodite’s hand to the nature of the death Teiresias was prophesying—“the tenderness of your death, just like the palm of love, shall touch you when your heart is old”. But furthermore—could it be that this is how it ends? Could it be that the hand which wrought his death was actually from Aphrodite herself? I’m getting a bit derailed but anyways

The translation of “ὅς κέ σε πέφνῃ/γήραι ὕπο λιπαρῷ ἀρημένον” is quite commonly agreed—“which shall strike you in your old age, ripe and worn out”. Although I’d like to point out that the word “ἀρημένον” (distressed, worn out) here is actually modifying the pronoun σε (you) since they’re both in accusative form, meaning “when you’re worn out”.

The word “ἀμφί” without case here is just an adverb, “around”. The case of λαοί here is interesting, since it’s not followed by any pronoun, which means it doesn’t necessarily refer to “your people”.

What kind of people then? Well, with “ὄλβιος” it often comes with material happiness, and divine blessings on good fortune. “Happy, blest, fortunate, prosperous” might be the closest meaning to the word. Could they be those people in Elysium though…🤔

So there’re three possibilities:

λαοί refers to “your people” indeed: in this case it’s talking about the Ithacans being prosperous and rich for all time.

λαοί refers to “a people”, a random one: this is for those who interpret Odysseus to be “not in Ithaca when he died”, say, when he went “far from the sea”.

It’s just “people will be around you and they’re happy”: he wasn’t alone when he died. Good to know :,)

So…yeah. I suppose this entire prophecy thing is for you to decide which version you like best? There isn’t really a fixed translation of this and you can either 1) ask Odysseus himself; 2) wait till Homer updates his fanfic which is pretty unlikely at this point :(

[lyculuscaelus]

Just a gentle reminder that EPIC the Musical is a musical. It’s not a movie script, not a play adaptation, but a musical itself. Which means, to talk about it with anything less is inorganic, is missing an important piece of the story itself. Because it’s not just the lyrics that display the scene—music tells its own story too.

The way the soundscape for each saga (and sometimes different songs themselves) is so unique that it creates the atmosphere for this certain event almost immediately, the experience of which you cannot go through merely by reading the script. With the Cyclops Saga we have a dark and edgy theme, with the Circe Saga we have a more tropical (mostly due to the drums) and at the same time elegant one (due to the strings), with the Underworld Saga we have this very gloomy theme which is straight up Underworld feels…this is very common for music, but it’s just something you won’t get from the script.

The way the delivery of so many lines is so good that you can feel the emotions so vividly—something lyrics alone can’t display. (Which is also the reason why there’re so many lamenting paragraphs in tragic plays and why there’re pauses between spoken lines in writings where writers describe the expression and movement of characters.) The way you can hear the anguish and desperation in the delivery of so many lines from Mutiny, the way you can feel the emotional struggle of Odysseus at the end of Thunder Bringer in the way Jay sings…there’re so many moments where you just feel the raw emotions coming from those lines that you can’t experience it by reading the lyrics and interpreting with wild guesses.

The way the reoccurring motifs and riffs tell so many things that lyrics won’t is already well-known. Danger is nearby motif already gives you the alert of what is to come; storm motif depicts a harsh encounter on sea that it captures that moment so well; that specific motif from those three songs (the beginning of the second verse of The Horse and the Infant, the first and second verse of Survive, the beginning of the second half of Mutiny) is foretelling the turning point of events (and also asking someone to kill the other being)…and then we have characters’ own motifs. Odysseus’s cunning motif shows the moment where he plots the course of action; Athena’s Warrior of the Mind motif already indicates her appearance and more; Polites’s Open Arms motif just destroys your emotions cuz why not; Eurylochus’s Luck Runs Out motif shows the development of the dynamics between him and his Captain…there’re so many to rant about that I just can’t put them all in this one post. As for the riffs, the most famous one is of course the way Athena and Odysseus and Telemachus sing “miiiiind”/“fiiiiiine”/etc. as Jay has already yapped about in his video, which just shows the dynamics between these three characters so perfectly. Hey look, another thing which the script won’t tell you.

And then we have these characters’ own instruments. I don’t even think I’ll need to elaborate on this one. Most of you have known that already and understood how genius this idea is even though it’s not Jay who came up with it. This is totally something you can only experience in the music itself, but meanwhile it says a lot about the scene already. As in Done For where Odysseus’s electric guitar continues playing under Circe’s lines which indicates he has taken hold of the situation already (even though temporarily). It might be a minor thing, but still it’s very well-thought, and sometimes even foreshadowing (like how Poseidon’s trumpets have already shown up in Storm).

…

There’re so many things to rant about this musical that a single post is far from enough to discuss them all. Here I’m only pointing out that EPIC is an organic combination of lyrics and music (and action when it comes to stage production which I believe it will eventually) that it’s impossible to treat them separately while still getting the whole story right. Once again, the piece you’re talking about is not a stage play—it’s a musical that is epic.

[lyculuscaelus]

Thinking about the double meanings in Odysseus’s epithets. Specifically, about πολύτροπος (polytropos) and πολύαινος (polyainos) these two.

Thinking about how πολύτροπος could mean both “much-turned, much-traveled” and “of many devices”, since the word τρόπος (tropos) has the meaning of either “turn of direction” or “turn of mind” (or “trope”). So polytropos is referring to both Odysseus’s wanderings and his resourcefulness at the same time. (What a great epithet to start a poem.)

Thinking about how πολύαινος could mean both “much-praised” and “of many tales”, since the word αἶνος (ainos) has the meaning of either “praise” or “tale, story”. So polyainos is referring to both Odysseus’s fame in Achaea and his life of many tales (or even further, his telling of many tales). There’s more. What if πολύαινος is interpreted as πολυ- (poly-) + αἰνός (ainos)? The word αἰνός means either “dreadful, dire” or “overwhelming, unendurable” in Homeric context. This way polyainos could be translated as either “much-dreaded” or “much-overwhelmed, beyond endurance”, which is referring to Odysseus’s dreadful figure (to some) and his sufferings (or comically, his overwhelming charm personality which is beyond endurance) respectively. (Or this might just be me reading too much into the epithet itself)

And I’m perfectly normal about this fresh old man why do you ask

[lyculuscaelus]

Thinking about how Menelaus talked of his good old friend Odysseus in book 4 of the Odyssey

Thinking about how he would’ve offered Odysseus an Argive city and asked him to move in along with his wealth and his son and his people, how they would’ve met each other frequently, delighted in each other’s company, until death enfolded them both

Thinking about the possibility of him actually doing that after Odysseus’s return and Odysseus actually going there with his family and people. Once again Penelope would return to her homeland for a visit though oftentimes she would just chill with Helen, and Telemachus would be able to visit Pylos once in a while, and Odysseus would be thrilled to meet up with all the friends he had made during the war, Menelaus, Nestor, and especially…Diomedes. Yes, Diomedes—but as he found out his dear friend was no longer in Argos. Now what would happen if Odysseus went on another journey to seek him out, maybe taking Telemachus along perhaps Peisistratus too— (Diomedes’s exile probably didn’t happen in the Epic Cycle but nevertheless…) Anyways everybody reunites with their friends and they all happily live ever after—

I need to see this so bad.

[lyculuscaelus]

Yes, we all remember the sacrifice Odysseus should perform to Teiresias (and Hades and Persephone if we go by pseudo-Apollodorus’s Epitome) when he got back to Ithaca (book 10, lines 521–525, original text); we all remember the sacrificial gifts Odysseus would give to the Naiads in the cave (book 13, lines 356–360, original text); we all remember Odysseus should carry an oar and leave, in search for a land without knowledge of the sea (book 11, lines 121–134, original text); but what about this specific part in book 23, lines 354–358 (original text), where Odysseus promised he should go on the raids to seize more livestock, and demand compensation for them from the Achaeans?

νῦν δ᾽ ἐπεὶ ἀμφοτέρω πολυήρατον ἱκόμεθ᾽ εὐνήν, κτήματα μὲν τά μοι ἔστι, κομιζέμεν ἐν μεγάροισι, μῆλα* δ᾽ ἅ μοι μνηστῆρες ὑπερφίαλοι κατέκειραν, πολλὰ μὲν αὐτὸς ἐγὼ ληΐσσομαι, ἄλλα δ᾽ Ἀχαιοὶ δώσουσ᾽, εἰς ὅ κε πάντας ἐνιπλήσωσιν ἐπαύλους**. Now that the both of us did come back to our lovely bed, (You should) take care of our possessions for me, in the palace; As for the flocks* those arrogant suitors wasted, Many will I myself plunder, while others will the Achaeans Give, till they should fill all my folds. *μῆλον (melon): normally, the noun just means “sheep, goat” (and apple but that’s irrelevant here). Here it may or may not refer to the livestock in general.

First of all, may I bring back his friendship with Mentes the king of the Taphians (who were pirates at that time), and offer my humble speculation that Odysseus would once again hang out with them, carrying off flocks of plunder? Another thing is, the fact that he wouldn’t just sit still in Ithaca as soon as he got back is already pretty clear. Not only will he journey to a land unknown, he will also go on raids as compensation for his lost, and shout at the suitors’ family for reimbursement, not the other way around.

Anyways all hail our pirate king Odysseus

[lyculuscaelus]

How easy it was to blame all these misadventures the Achaeans suffered upon their homecoming on a man in revenge for his son.

Yes, we know what Palamedes did, and we know that he deserved it. We know that the disaster near Cape Caphereus did happen, and Nauplius was the one behind this. But we have not learned of anything else about the other part of Nauplius’s revenge from any sources earlier than pseudo-Apollodorus’s Epitome (and we know that the entire chapter 6 of Epitome is very likely tampered by Tzetzes already). Since, to be fair, Homer wasn’t the only one who neglected all this resettlement of Achaean heroes.

There was no mention of the name “Nauplius” in Proclus’s summary of the epic Nostoi, and the only chance for him to show up is in “the description of the storm around the Capherian rocks”. We know that Nauplius would make an appearance in the Nostoi through, again, pseudo-Apollodorus. But nothing more. The corruption of Argive wives did not happen in the Epic Cycle, and both the Nostoi and the Odyssey did not elaborate on any exile of any Achaean leader especially Diomedes.

And Aegialeia was still a steadfast wife of Diomedes in Homer’s epics. And Clytemnestra could still find her justice in her lament for Iphigeneia in Aeschylus’s and Euripides’s plays. Any role Nauplius could play in this would be redundant—prudent Aegialeia simply wouldn’t comply, and Clytemnestra wouldn’t need him to convince her.

So, why the attribution then? A likely explanation would be the attempt to connect the hero with those foundation myths in places outside the Mainland Greece like Magna Graecia. And what better way to get the hero there than exile? And what better way to exile a hero than the betrayal of their wife if they had one? (Well there are better ways but you know what I mean) The thing is, why did it have to be Nauplius? I mean, the tragedy at Cape Caphereus was infamous indeed. I could totally see people blaming Nauplius the Wrecker for more things than simply lighting a false beacon and throwing rocks. So now we have our avenger Nauplius traveling around Greece contriving the corruption of Argive wives and causing shipwreck for the returned fleet and in some versions even bringing false news to Anticleia which led to her suicide (again, not the version in the Odyssey)…Nauplius just seemed to be such a convenient device to connect these events.

But does that have to be the only case for their nostoi? I mean, Homer certainly did not include anything about this exile in his epics, and we could totally have our Nauplius simply causing shipwreck, without messing up with other heroes’ families. Is it tragic? Certainly. But in the meantime, it is cathartic. Heroes like Diomedes, Idomeneus, Philoctetes still get to stay in their homeland, even if it’s just in a few versions—one of them being Homer’s version.

[lyculuscaelus]

In general, the mythological picture Homer and other ancient writers were trying to provide us in their poems is quite different from each other in many aspects. One of which is the lore about Odysseus. For example, in a Homeric world, Odysseus’s family is a line of single sons, as Telemachus has pointed out in the Odyssey, book 16, line 117–120:

ὧδε γὰρ ἡμετέρην γενεὴν μούνωσε Κρονίων: μοῦνον Λαέρτην Ἀρκείσιος υἱὸν ἔτικτε, μοῦνον δ᾽ αὖτ᾽ Ὀδυσῆα πατὴρ τέκεν: αὐτὰρ Ὀδυσσεὺς μοῦνον ἔμ᾽ ἐν μεγάροισι τεκὼν λίπεν οὐδ᾽ ἀπόνητο. 120 The son of Cronus makes our family a line of single sons: Only one son—Laërtes, did Arceisius beget; Only one son—Odysseus, did his father (Laërtes) beget; then Odysseus, begetting Only one son—me, left me in his halls, and had no joy of me.

Also, it’s not just Telemachus using dramatic here and I stand by my point. Might rant about it at some point but for now, let’s just say the word μούνωσε (its 1st person present indicative form being μονόω) is extremely interesting here, and another thing to keep in mind is the use of Dios boulē in the Odyssey, which also deserves some ranting of its own.

Now, back to the topic. The choice of words here is presumably deliberate, as Homer is trying to establish his own version of the story and suppressing some other epichoric traditions. (Creative liberties is certainly not just a modern concept fellas but anyways) Therefore we have our so-called Homeric tradition, which is the result of the omission of a number of local traditions, plus his unique portrayal of characters as a treat. Keep in mind that this is not the only version of the story (but certainly the most intriguing and influential one), so you would notice something off almost immediately (say, Dictys Cretensis and the Telegony). Now, there is only one point I’d like to bring up:

Don’t pretend that those non-Homeric stories could still work well within the Homeric tradition; and don’t expect certain Homeric rules to apply to other non-Homeric lore.

Again, back to our example. The one-son-per-generation rule is most certainly Homeric and can only stay in a Homeric setting. You do not apply this to Theogony and certainly not the infamous Telegony. On the other hand, the Telegony is NOT a sequel to the Odyssey, but rather tells a different story which is set after the time of the Odyssey. That Odysseus seen in Proclus’s summary of this poem is certainly not the Odysseus we know of, and chances are that he was exile by his people while this is invalidated by the ending of book 24 of the Odyssey, and the oar quest might not even have happened in the Telegony.

Yes, I know that some may find the angst potential of Nausinous and Nausithous (this includes me) or the painful death of Odysseus (you lost me here) irresistible, but keep in mind that they’re in a different setting now, and the portrait of characters is likely different. But that doesn’t mean you can’t explore the story itself. In fact, it’s even more intriguing to see how our beloved Homeric characters would behave in these non-Homeric settings. Giving Odysseus a chance to be the father he never was is angsty as hell; putting Odysseus in Thesprotia after him facing family issues also brings the story itself to a new level (glances at Smitty 👀); etc. After all, one could even say they’re fanfic ideas set in different AUs, waiting to be explored by future writers…

So…yeah.

[lyculuscaelus]

End of Nostoi

ἔνθ᾽ ἄλλοι μὲν πάντες, ὅσοι φύγον αἰπὺν ὄλεθρον, οἴκοι ἔσαν, πόλεμόν τε πεφευγότες ἠδὲ θάλασσαν: Now all the others, as many as fled from utter destruction, were at home, having escaped from war and waves. (Odyssey, book 1, line 11–12)

Just a little reminder that Homer put this here for a reason—first of all, to emphasize that the other Achaeans’ toils had been done—their war finished, their home returned, to contrast with Odysseus, a man still trapped on Ogygia, still yearning to return to his home and wife, as the following lines (13–15) point out:

τὸν δ᾽ οἶον νόστου κεχρημένον ἠδὲ γυναικὸς νύμφη πότνι᾽ ἔρυκε Καλυψὼ δῖα θεάων ἐν σπέσσι γλαφυροῖσι, λιλαιομένη πόσιν εἶναι. But him (Odysseus) alone yearning for his return and his wife, The powerful nymph Calypso, heavenly goddess, still restrained him In her hollow caves, longing for him to be her husband.

This is to incite pathos in the narrative: all of his friends who didn’t die along the way had made it back, but he alone was still suffering. This is again proven by Nestor’s speech in book 3, in which he stated that Diomedes, Neoptolemus, Philoctetes, Idomeneus—the very heroes who would otherwise be wandering around in Italy or in Epirus as other later traditions mentioned—had returned home safely.

Another thing to think about is Dios boulē (Διὸς βουλή), roughly speaking, “Zeus’s plan/will”. It’s quite a dominant theme in Homeric poems, but here I just wanted to point out that it was Zeus who devised the mournful return for Achaeans (and executed by Athena—destruction for others, assistance for Odysseus when he got to Ithaca), as mentioned by Nestor:

καὶ τότε δὴ Ζεὺς λυγρὸν ἐνὶ φρεσὶ μήδετο νόστον Ἀργείοις, ἐπεὶ οὔ τι νοήμονες οὐδὲ δίκαιοι πάντες ἔσαν: τῶ σφεων πολέες κακὸν οἶτον ἐπέσπον μήνιος ἐξ ὀλοῆς* γλαυκώπιδος ὀβριμοπάτρης. And then indeed Zeus in his mind planned a mournful return For Argives, since we all were in no wise prudent or just— Thus many of them met an evil fate Through the destructive wrath of the bright-eyed daughter of that mighty father. (Odyssey, book 3, line 132–135) * “destructive wrath of Athena” or “wrath of destructive Athena”…technically the latter fits the word sequence of the original text better, but considering this ἐξ is moved behind μήνιος due to fit the dactylic structure, I’d say it works for both, and the former one seems more plausible.

The entire point of nostoi was then to punish the Achaeans for their crimes during the sack of Troy; on the other hand, their punishment was already fulfilled during the time of their homecoming. And this would also be the fulfillment Zeus’s plan: for them to return to sing the tales of his plan, from the start of the war to the end of the return.

Thus, in the Homeric context, by the time Odysseus went home, the other Achaeans must have either perished along the way or arrived home safe and sound, with no more trials awaiting. It is the will of Zeus. It is the end of their tribulations. It is the closing of a full cycle—an Epic Cycle.

[lyculuscaelus]

Idomeneus and Meriones

Just gonna drop this here (the Iliad, book 13, line 249):

Μηριόνη Μόλου υἱὲ πόδας ταχὺ φίλταθ᾽ ἑταίρων Meriones son of Molus, swift-footed one, my dearest companion

See the word φίλτατος (superlative of φίλος) here? It’s how they address their besties, “nearest, dearest”. Just like how Patroclus was said to be the dearest to Achilles (book 17, line 410–411):

δὴ τότε γ᾽ οὔ οἱ ἔειπε κακὸν τόσον ὅσσον ἐτύχθη μήτηρ, ὅττί ῥά οἱ πολὺ φίλτατος ὤλεθ᾽ ἑταῖρος. Then his mother (Thetis) did not tell him how great an evil transpired, That indeed his much dearest comrade (Patroclus) was slain.

We can rant abt Patroclus and Achilles all day but right here I just want to talk a bit abt the friendship of Idomeneus and Meriones. First of all this line here is literally Idomeneus calling Meriones bestie. It certainly makes sense for Idomeneus to call his therapon like this. And see how understanding they were with each other:

Meriones to Idomeneus (book 13, line 272–273):

ἄλλόν πού τινα μᾶλλον Ἀχαιῶν χαλκοχιτώνων λήθω μαρνάμενος, σὲ δὲ ἴδμεναι αὐτὸν ὀΐω. Some other of the bronze-chitoned Achaeans Might not notice my fighting, yet I believe you know it well.

And then Idomeneus’s reply (the following part, in line 275):

οἶδ᾽ ἀρετὴν οἷός ἐσσι: τί σε χρὴ ταῦτα λέγεσθαι; I know what sort of excellent man you are; what need is there for you to tell me this?

Literally. They’re besties your honor, and probably had gone through more than this war to know each other so well. Just look at themmm

[lyculuscaelus]

It’d be interesting to view the failed nostoi of Achaeans (which is the migration of Trojan War heroes to other places like Italy) in the context of the Hesiodic lore of the fourth age of men (Works and Days, line 156–175), aka the Heroic Age.

ἔνθ᾽ ἤτοι τοὺς μὲν θανάτου τέλος ἀμφεκάλυψε, There certainly the death’s end enshrouded some [of them],

So many of the Achaeans met their end in two campaigns against Thebes and especially the Trojan War.

τοῖς δὲ δίχ᾽ ἀνθρώπων βίοτον καὶ ἤθε᾽ ὀπάσσας  Ζεὺς Κρονίδης κατένασσε πατὴρ ἐς πείρατα γαίης. While to the others he sent with them a living and abodes apart from men, Father Zeus the son of Kronos, and settled them at the ends of earth.

They were sent to Italy (which is pretty far from the Mainland), for a living, the abodes being the cities they founded there.

καὶ τοὶ μὲν ναίουσιν ἀκηδέα θυμὸν ἔχοντες  ἐν μακάρων νήσοισι παρ᾽ Ὠκεανὸν βαθυδίνην,  ὄλβιοι* ἥρωες, τοῖσιν μελιηδέα καρπὸν  τρὶς ἔτεος θάλλοντα φέρει ζείδωρος ἄρουρα.  And look, they dwell, holding a carefree heart In the isles of the blessed beside the deep-eddying Oceanus, Happy heroes, to whom the honey-sweet fruit Growing thrice a year—the fruitful earth bears them. * tell me I’m not the only one being reminded of this same word used in Teiresias’s prophecy—runs off to prepare for another post

Here, the Isles of the Blessed are depicted at the end of earth where the swirls of Oceanus flow. Note that in Roman mythology, the land of Hesperia (the western end of earth) was associated with Italy, and the colonies of Greeks (where Magna Graecia now lies) were also mentioned in Virgil’s Aeneid. Not necessarily what the Romans had in mind, but it’s an interesting connection nonetheless.

τηλοῦ ἀπ᾽ ἀθανάτων: τοῖσιν Κρόνος ἐμβασιλεύει.  τοῦ γὰρ δεσμὸν ἔλυσε πατὴρ ἀνδρῶν τε θεῶν τε.  Far from the immortals—Kronos reigns over them. For the father of gods and men released him from his bonds.

Isn’t it fascinating that the god Saturn, the Roman equivalent of Kronos, was one of the most important gods in so many Italian tribes back then? Now that these Greeks were far from their homelands, far from the realm of the gods they knew of, and submitting to the reign of Saturn, who was associated with Kronos in the Greeks’ mind?

τοῖσι δ᾽ ὁμῶς νεάτοις τιμὴ καὶ κῦδος ὀπηδεῖ.  And honor and glory attends to these greatest ones equally.

Considering how many heroa (ἡρῷα) there were in Italy, yep.

So personally, I do consider the failed nostoi working well within the Hesiodic context, even though they are later traditions themselves, which are inconsistent with Homeric epics. But that’s my personal view. (And of course you can argue that the Isles of the Blessed here are associated with Elysium fields which means that they’re all sent there after death but hey you guys are even putting the location of Hades in Italy which is literally saying “the hell is right here in Italy” which I’ve been wanting to shout at for this whole time…now just allow me to have fun)

[lyculuscaelus]

“πολλῶν δ᾽ ἀνθρώπων ἴδεν ἄστεα καὶ νόον ἔγνω…” (of many men he saw their cities and learned their mind…)

Ok you stop right there Homer. Tell me the cities you speak of.

Are they…

Ismarus: bro you just destroyed their city…and “learned their mind” on revenge. That surely counts doesn’t it

The land of the Lotus-eaters: bro you just sent three men to eat lotus, and you weren’t sightseeing at all cuz you didn’t even mention any city

The land of the Cyclopes: bro you went to a cave, not the city—if there was one, that is

Aeolia: bro that’s a god, and his children too

Telepylus: bro they’re giants

Aeaea: bro that’s a goddess, and no city

Hades: …

Thrinacia: bro they’re cattle and sheep, and still no city

Ogygia: bro that’s a goddess, and still no city

Scheria: yes definitely, the Phaeacians, and their Xenia

Home sweet home

Final count: 1, honestly

Ok so that’s a “lot” of cities to see…right? Enough for you to use the plural ἄστεα, right Homer?

That doesn’t compute.

Now seriously, what are the cities Homer was talking about? It can’t be the ones Odysseus had visited before the war (cuz “ἐπεὶ Τροίης ἱερὸν πτολίεθρον ἔπερσεν:”—“after he sacked the sacred citadel of Troy”), and now that we’ve seen, they’re not really included in Odysseus’s return. So is it actually from other versions of Odysseus’s story, or are they nowhere to be found?

Unless…if you’re including his oar quest after his return:

“ἐπεὶ μάλα πολλὰ βροτῶν ἐπὶ ἄστε᾽ ἄνωγεν ἐλθεῖν…” (since he (Teiresias) has ordered me to go to quite a lot of cities of mortals…)

Problem solved. Homer was talking about something that’s not even in his epic at the very beginning of his epic. what a clickbait smh /lhj

Again, seriously, the part of Odysseus’s return is actually included in the next two lines: “πολλὰ δ᾽ ὅ γ᾽ ἐν πόντῳ πάθεν ἄλγεα ὃν κατὰ θυμόν, ἀρνύμενος ἥν τε ψυχὴν καὶ νόστον ἑταίρων.” (at sea he endured many pains in his soul, striving to secure his life and the companions’ return.) (and of course he didn’t get the latter) and judging by the forms of the verbs (ἴδεν, ἔγνω, πάθεν are normal aorist verbs, while ἀρνύμενος is a participle), line 5 is the continuation of line 4 while line 3 and 4 are parallel to each other, each summarizing a journey that Odysseus undertook (line 3 is about Ody’s oar quest while line 4 and 5 about the Odyssey). This is a brilliant design.

And it might indicate that Odysseus’s second journey is of some importance too.

So, Homer, tell us the cities you speak of. We would like to know.