#lungbarrow spoilers

[humandisastersquad]

Can’t believe this ep confirmed Susan is the Other’s granddaughter

[intuitive-revelations]

I need to rewatch that episode at some point to fully digest it, as I was watching with my family, but I have a bit of a theory coming out of it. Granted it might also be wishful thinking, since it's kind-of what I would do if I was in RTD's shoes, but hear me out:

Getting another mention of the Timeless Child arc feels very deliberate, despite (again) the new series obstensibly being a jumping on point for new viewers.

The episode is filled with themes regarding being a 'foundling' (that wording from Davina was a VERY deliberate choice - granted it's already floating around in pop-culture a bit with The Mandalorian, but it's also specifically the wording the Master used to describe the Timeless Child), not to mention fostering from the parent's point of view, and ambiguous family relationships (daughter / foster kid etc.).

There's clearly a coincidence parallel there. Indeed we hear as much from Fifteen himself.

"I'm adopted." "Are you?" "Yeah, yeah. I, uh, only found out recently."

Meanwhile we also get this element of the timeline changing, and it completely changing the life and personality of Carla.

And finally, there's the Doctor watching Ruby's birth mother (?) leave despite seemingly being tempted to confront her vs Ruby immediately running off when she realises the Doctor's a time traveller (RTD clearly influencing himself there, given the similarities with Rose's debut).

My guess (and hope, full disclaimer) is that we might get some development of the Doctor's origins to make them a bit more ambiguous beyond the Timeless Child mystery. Ideally via changing timelines as per Unnatural History IMHO, like I mentioned in a recent post.

We've got some hints of RTD thinking this way already, given his reasoning for sharing Doctor Who and the Time War during lockdown:

More importantly, the idea has come of age. This chapter only died because it became, continuity-wise, incorrect. But now, the Thirteenth Doctor has shown us Doctors galore, with infinite possibilities. All Doctors exist. All stories are true.

Tales of the TARDIS also seems to lean quite hard into this, with each past Doctor having aged beyond their regenerations due to the constantly changing time tracks. (This also feels kinda like what he was getting at with his 'all Doctors bigenerated' comment, even if it actually occuring in-universe as it did with Fourteen woud be a disaster.)

Do I think we will get too focused on timelines shifting? ...no not necessarily. But I do think we might see some key themes regarding having multiple families (biological, adopted, fostered, found etc.) and these might get applied directly to the Doctor, with him acknowledging having multiple pasts and multiple families. Like that line from Lungbarrow:

'Goodbye, Lungbarrovians,' he called. 'Don't worry. I don't ask for your forgiveness. Time runs in circles. I have other families!

Granted, a lot of this is pure speculation, but I do think there's clear setup for Ruby and Fifteen to be foils to each other going forward, which may indicate similar arcs, even if they don't necessarily unfold at the same time.

However there is one big thing that really might just link it together for me..

The way the family changes as the timelines change. The way Carla's relationship with her foster children changes too. The difference in the number of photos.

This last bit is particulary interesting, because it has two possible subtextual meanings in my head. Let's assume the theory is right, everything involving Ruby is meant to foreshadow the Doctor's own multiple pasts and multiple families.

Does the number of photos represent the size of his family (eg. 45 cousins in a House vs a handful of siblings and stepsiblings)?

"You've got the biggest family in the world." "I have. What about you?" "Uh... I've got no one."

(Although it is worth noting that this is also exactly what Sarah Jane said to Ten about the companions in Journeys End. I'm not how, or if, this is meaningful, but I figured I'd note it.)

Or... and this is a stretch of a stretch... could it represent the number of incarnations the Doctor has had in each timetrack?

"All those lives... you fostered thirty-three." "How many? Not me, darling. Don't be so stupid."

There's not that much to go off yet, so a lot of this may be well off what actually happens, but on a thematic level at least, I do very much think Ruby and the Doctor will continue to be foils to eachother regarding their relationships with their families and trying to find their 'true origin'.

[buildoblivionthenwewilltalk]

side note I think I can learn to like the ‘susan is the child of the doctors future kid’ stuff

[gallifreyvn]

i have never seen a purer representation of true love than aziraphale giving away an incredibly rare doctor who book so that he could dance with crowley at a jane austen style ball

[ozzieinspacetime]

Sometimes I think about the first Doctor pre An Unearthly Child and I'm like. Okay so he had dubious looming/parentage, slept in a barn most of his childhood, killed a boy with a rock, killed two of his friends in an endless toy dimension after having a breakdown over a flower, got expelled, got married to a woman older than his kithriarch, passed his exams (finally) on the third try, had 13 kids (somehow???), fell out with every single one of his ex best friends, did something bad enough that the president ordered his own brother to assassinate both him and his granddaughter and he ended up running away to keep her safe. And also one of his companions from like 1000 years in the future was there and its implied that the universal concepts premeditated the whole thing but whatever. And it all happened within like 300 years.

All I'm saying is its no wonder he kidnapped Barbra and Ian if that's what we're working with

[gotyouanyway]

[gallifreyanhotfive]

Hi!! I really really want to get into the academy era eu stuff, but I just have no idea where to start 😭😭😭 do you have any audio/novel/etc recs to start off with? Thank you so much!!

-✨️🪐 anon

Hello! So sorry I didn't see this sooner - I've been quite busy lately (busy enough I forgot to submit my Big Finish Short Trips this year...)

Anyway, for the Academy Era, the starting off point is generally Divided Loyalties. In this novel, there is a long dream sequence of the Academy Era. Since it is a dream, it might not be 100% accurate, but it's what we have.

Otherwise, most of the information we have on the Academy Era comes from the occasional reference in a bunch of different stories. Some of them have more Academy Era material than others...

We can get some pretty good insights from some DWEU material (beyond what is in the TV show). I won't list spoilers here just in case that wasn't what you were looking for (though I have other posts that do entail this information), but here's the list I can think of off the top of my head. Some of these are stories with just general young-Time-Tot era references (not necessarily at the Academy but still the itty bitty, pre-leaving Gallifrey guys), but I'll include them anyway. And some of these references are quick, so be prepared.

Novel: Divided Loyalties

Novel: Tomb of Valdemar

Novel: Deadly Reunion

Novel: Lungbarrow

Novel: The Death of Art

Novel: The Dark Path

Audio: Time in Office

Audio: Darkness and Light

Novel: The Time Lord Letters

Short story: The Nameless City

Audio: Planet of the Rani

Audio: Master

Comic: The Glorious Dead

Comic: Weapons of Past Destruction

Comic: Space in Dimension Relative in Time)

Short story: The Three Paths

Audio/Novel: Mission to Magnus

Novel: The Eight Doctors

Audio/Novel: Cold Fusion

Audio: The Eleven

Audio: Blood of the Time Lords

Audio: The Widow's Assassin

Audio: Crossed Lines

Short story: Celestial Intervention - A Gallifreyan Noir

Short story: The Legacy of Gallifrey

Novel: Timewyrm: Exodus

Novel: Goth Opera

Audio: The Toy

Short story: Birth of a Renegade

Short story: Rebel Rebel

Audio: Neverland

Audio: The Next Life

Novel: Island of Death

Novel: Unnatural History

Novel: Christmas on a Rational Planet

Audio: Disassembled

Comic: Flashback

Audio: Together in Eclectic Dreams

Audio: The Last Line

Short story: Report on Term's Work

Audio: The Wormery

Audio: Storm Warning

Novel: Cat's Cradle: Time's Crucible

Novel: The Infinity Doctors

Short story: Seven Deadly Sins

Audio: Order of the Daleks

Audio: The Apocalypse Element

Audio: Prisoners of Fate

Novel: Original Sin

Novel: The Twin Dilemma

Anyways, these are the ones that immediately pop to mind when I think of stories that have references. It's not a complete list, mind, just the ones in my head at the time of writing. They are also not in any order, just the order I thought of them.

Regardless, most of these are just references, and you may not want to read an entire novel for a single reference...If that is the case, let me know, and I can explain some more!

[demigodofhoolemere]

Just watched The Legend of Ruby Sunday

spoilers

1) SUTEKH!!!! I’m so glad the theories I’ve seen regarding him made me go rewatch Pyramids of Mars so I’d be better prepared for that. More and more as time went on it was getting clearer with her going by Sue, the mummified sandy bodies, and that familiar eerie voice, but it was still epic to see the reveal. I still think the Trickster is involved in Ruby’s life somehow and will probably show up in the next season if not still in the finale, but I’m not complaining about Sutekh at all.

2) Very glad that Susan Twist did not end up being my Susan. I figured it was a misdirection but I was still concerned. If we get Susan back it’s gotta be Carole or nothing.

3) What’s this nonsense about suggesting having a granddaughter without first having kids? I’m not here for this Lungbarrow stuff, Russell. It’s been acknowledged by the Doctor himself many times that he’s had children. Fifteen literally just said, “I did have,” in The Devil’s Chord. That line was weird to me.

4) Ahhh, so much talk about the Brigadier this episode. I love the image of him telling little Kate stories about his best friend the Doctor.

5) That was an awful lot of effort put into the time window thing that they could have just used the Time Space Visualizer for but okay.

[elizabethshaw]

hm. thinking thoughts

under the cut for spoiler reasons:

this is literally just me writing stuff up in no real order so there is probably not all that much coherence to it. ah well

loved how unsettling it was having something wrong with the tardis! the tardis (in the tv show at least) is usually the one guaranteed safe place in any given dr who episode and so to have it suddenly a threat like that felt genuinely unnerving

the time window sequence was cool. really liked the fuzzy, there-but-not-quite-there visual effects

i also loved the monologue/prophecy/whatever, built things up very nicely and idk. i just vibed with it. i have more to say but the words are not coming to me right now

"and standing on high is the Mother and Father and Other of them all" i haven't even read lungbarrow but them saying "other" here immediately got my attention lmao

for an episode called "the legend of ruby sunday", it felt like (particularly in the last third of the story), there was remarkably little actual focus on ruby. while i do genuinely like her as a companion, i do feel like she's been one of the biggest casualties of the shift to a shorter series length with less time for "filler" episodes - we simply haven't had the time to get to know her on a deeper level, and i was hoping, given the title, that this story would do something to rectify that a bit. and then it didn't.

saying that, i did appreciate them giving her some more scenes with her mum this episode, i think she has a really nice dynamic with her family and we haven't seen enough of it since the christmas special imo

no trickster :( he got a mention at least but i was hoping he'd be the villain ngl

i have watched pyramids of mars once, four years ago, and barely remember the plot (my main memories of that episode are sarah with a gun ngl), probably going to have to rewatch it before next week. dailymotion you may have to be my saviour once again

not entirely sure how i feel about sutekh as the main villain. this is at least in part because my memories of pyramids of mars are hazy as anything, but i'm just... undecided. to its credit, the episode itself actually did a good job of getting me very excited about the reveal while i was watching, but as an overall thing? i don't know yet. i think i'm going to have to wait until i've watched the finale next week to form a full opinion

i reckon he must have hitched himself onto the tardis around/during "wild blue yonder" though - this is the first time where the tardis starts making The Noises, and is also the first time susan twist turns up, and that can't be a coincidence, especially given that, as previously established, it was likely fourteen's salt trick in this episode that let the toymaker back into the universe

i rewatched "the church on ruby road" earlier this week bc i figured it'd be a good shout and i hadn't watched it since broadcast, and during that i felt like mrs flood was maybe a "retired" companion, possibly a future companion (maybe of a future doctor) that we haven't met yet. after this ep though, i'm not so sure. she seems at least aware of sutekh in some way, and also seems potentially antagonistic, but i'm not sure she's actually directly linked to him. i'm fairly sure as well rtd said at some point she's more of a mystery for later series so. hm. it'll be interesting to see what more we get of her in part two

i can't shake the feeling that they are going to do something with susan further down the line. there have been more mentions of her in this series than in basically the rest of new who put together and i can't help but think that this must be for a reason even if susan twist wasn't her

anyway the real mystery for me: what is the vlinx. i have been thinking about this on and off since december. what is it. how did it get into unit to begin with. i need answers

[tvmigraine]

6:25AM Doctor Who Headcanons

"Full Fathom Five" is the Valeyard Origin:

The whole point behind "Full Fathom Five" is to show an Unbound Doctor that's willing to go darker and believes that the ends justify the means. This seems like a natural continuation of the direction that the Seventh Doctor was going so, if we consider that the timeline, this is what I interpret the regeneration cycle to be (not counting the other regenerations between Brooker and Jayston).

Through some trickery, this "Doctor" manages to escape the situation that's killing him over and over but now he's on his final regeneration. He's desperate and basically willing to do anything, his own morals eroded into dust, which eventually leads into the conflict we see in "Trial of a Time Lord".

Because of this encounter and the Sixth Doctor's desire not to become the Valeyard (some expanded media shows this more), this pushes this incarnation back and stops the Seventh Doctor becoming the Full Fathom Five incarnation.

The Unbound War Doctor and the Watcher are the same being:

The Watcher is really confusing and there's never going to be an answer to that regeneration that I'm fully satisfied with. What I've reasoned to myself is that it could relay on the strangest blip in the "Unbound" range - "Doctor of War" shows what would've happened if the Fourth Doctor destroyed the Daleks on Skaro, namely an early Time War. He regenerates into Colin Baker.

At the end of this story, giving few spoilers, the Doctor does eventually remedy this mistake and we see Colin Baker's Doctor in the place of Tom's, replacing him during the final events of "Genesis of the Daleks". However it's stated that the Baker War Doctor is still trapped outside of time, his consciousness basically pushing his life back onto the right path.

SO! My perspective is that the Baker War Doctor, being connected to this incarnation's eventual death already, is able to manifest in the form of The Watcher in order to help him regenerate successfully. (I know the Watcher appears in other places too, so maybe that's the Doctor of War continuing this duty in the hopes of keeping things right?)

Richard Griffiths' Doctor leads into "Curse of Fatal Death"

There is nothing to this theory except I think the outfits look very similar.

Doctor Who Magazine 255 ran an article called "What If?" that showed what could've become of Doctor Who if it had made it into the 90s. This had the 7th Doctor regenerate into an alternative 8th (Altern-Eight) played by Richard Griffiths. The outfits are similarly enough that this Doctor could, after going off air, eventually adopted the outfit that'd become the "Curse of Fatal Death" outfit.

The Cadet Sweets Doctor is a young First Doctor:

When the Doctor is younger, he has adventures on the back of candy cigarette packets where he encounters the Voord and the Daleks. Due to old age, he eventually forgets about it. Or maybe it's his dad, yknow what, The Cadet Sweets Doctor is his Dad, actually.

"Lungbarrow" leads into the Timeless Child:

I'm just going over an older theory I've had and it's stuck. The VNAs take place in a bottle universe with the Seventh Doctor discovering the origins of the Other and eventually leading to his own childhood. Instead of it happening how it was supposed to, the bottle universe starts to leak into the main continuity - the Foundling that Tecteun finds is the Other, but their timeline is changed by being brought into the main universe.

Time has to heal itself when the bottle universe fully floods into the main history - in some ways it does this by correcting the Foundling's life to inevitably become the Doctor, in other ways it does stuff like repeat adventures ("Human Nature").

"Battle For The Universe" is a sequel to "Shada":

"Battle For The Universe" is a board game from 1989 about the Doctor travelling with Tegan, Romana, Ace and K9. The game also has the most ridiculous redesign of characters, including the Doctor who looks like Skagra from the infamous "Shada".

At the end of "Shada", the defeated Skagra is forced to listen about the Doctor's exploits from start to finish by an AI. I think that the board game is showing Skagra in a crazed fugue state, having lost himself after listening to so many stories (which are being updated as the Doctor continues living) about the Doctor's exploits. Basically imagine a version of "Deadline" but it's about Skagra.

[regicidal-defenestration]

Well I say Lungbarrow "is" alive it very much is not, anymore at least. Like you all see the point I'm making but like, spoilers, sorry, it very much died. Off a cliff and all

[the-worms-in-your-bones]

I really like the chapters and houses slideshow, one thing that I think you could maybe add is house lungbarrow’s whole deal with being (potential spoiler) buried and stuff? That might be too much of a spoiler, though. I don’t remember when they reveal that in the book.

I didn’t add that because it didn’t really seem relevant to the slideshow since I was only giving an overview of what houses were not necessarily going into specifics about lungbarrow (though it could be a fun little ‘hey they can do this’ fun fact type thing, idk may or may not do anything with that)

[darksideofparis]

Can you post a small spoiler on the 10th doctors reaction to ally on the day of the doctor? Also some spoilers on any other episode

Ask and you shall receive! Here's a snippet from 'The Day of the Doctor'.

“Compensating?” Ten asked, the snark evident in his voice.

Eleven stared at him. “For what?”

“Regeneration,” Ten said flippantly as he tucked his sonic away. “It’s a lottery.”

Off to the side, the blonde young woman snorted. “Oh, trust me, he’s not compensating for anything.”

Eleven, finally getting what his former self was hinting at, went red in the face. “Alex!” he hissed.

“What?” the girl now identified as Alex giggled. “You’re not. I have no complaints.”

Amusing as it was to watch Eleven spluttering at this remark, the Tenth Doctor was far more interested in the young woman who appeared to be on very intimate terms with his future self. She was a very pretty, even, dare he say, beautiful young woman, appearing in her early to mid-twenties by human standards. She had long, brown-blonde hair that flowed all the way down to the small of her back, pale pink lips that were currently curved into a mischievous smirk, and a little, lightning-bolt shaped scar on the side of her nose.

But her eyes were especially interesting. At first glance, they appeared hazel, but as the Doctor watched, they turned from dark chocolate brown into light green, followed just a few seconds later by amber, then dark green.

Human eyes don’t do that, he thought with a touch of suspicion. Maybe this Alex girl was part human, part alien?

His eyes roamed over her figure, taking in the tight blue jeans, the long black trench coat he couldn’t help but admire, and the necklace whose charm was tucked underneath a white sweater. Nothing out of the ordinary there. The clothing was typical of his companions; fashionable, but comfortable enough for running at a moment’s notice.

Then, Alex removed her left hand from her coat pocket to brush a piece of hair out of her eyes. Nothing significant in that, it was a very casual action, but it allowed the Doctor to spot the ring on her third index finger.

And suddenly, the earth beneath his feet seemed to tilt, his whole universe being turned upside down.

For on Alex’s hand was an engagement ring. But not just any engagement ring. As the sun shone down on it, the diamond emitted a slight orange hue.

Not just a White-Point Star diamond, but a Gallifreyan White-Point Star, so named because the orange hue was reminiscent of Gallifrey’s surface and its twin suns. Even before Gallifrey’s destruction, they were extremely rare, the mines that produced them having closed long before the Doctor had even been an idea.

But some of the noble houses had acquired the rare gems and placed them in jewelry. The House of Lungbarrow had been no exception, acquiring one gem at great expense, and placing it in a setting made of gold and dwarf star alloy. An engagement ring, meant to be passed down to every bride that married into the House. And it had been passed down, all the way to the Doctor’s mother. But it wasn’t passed to the Doctor’s wife. His mother hadn’t allowed it.

Much, much later, when his hasty, ill-thought-out marriage had come to its inevitable end, his mother had given him the ring. “Save it,” she’d urged. “Save it for the one you look at as though they designed the universe itself, and who looks at you the same way.”

He’d been so bitter then, convinced such a person would never come along, but he had taken the ring regardless. It was now tucked into a safe in the back of his bedroom closet, along with the other few possessions he’d saved from Gallifrey’s destruction. It hadn’t seen the light of day in centuries. There was no one he had ever considered giving it to, not even Rose.

But apparently, one day not too far from now, that would change.

Hehe, how's that for a spoiler?!

And as for spoilers from other episodes. . .

In 'Night Terrors', someone other than Amy is getting turned into a wooden doll. . .

Lacey is an original/guest companion in 'The Girl Who Waited' (poor Lacey, not the best time to get on board the TARDIS. . .).

We will find out who Alex's Time Lord ancestor is in 'The Wedding of River Song'! How? Who? Why? You'll have to wait and see!

[buildoblivionthenwewilltalk]

russell if this is anything other than giving the loom girlies what they want you can find me in your walls

[thatbiologist]

Disney and Doctor Who

(Spoilers for Doctor Who duh)

As Disney has recently acquired the international distribution rights to Doctor Who. In the Whoniverse, the Fifth Doctor became the Lord President of Gallifrey due to some shenanigans on Gallifrey and even spent some time in office. But he never gave up the title, as in typical fashion he runaway in a rackety old TARDIS.  

Furthermore, it is later discovered that the Doctor is a genetic reincarnation of the Founder of Time Lord society known as the Other; who was genetically rewoven on the looms in the House of Lungbarrow.  

With all that said would anyone else agree that it is accurate to say that Jo Martin’s and Jodie Whittaker's incarnations of the Doctor is now officially Disney Princesses?

[gretchenzellerbarnes]

Doctor Who Current Theory

Just to be clear, I've got several theories on just what the hell is going on with Doctor Who at the moment; mindwipes, alternate realities (which Chibnall has vetoed, but I’m taking this with a pinch of salt until the finale airs), clones, The Master, The Rani or River Song in disguise. 

Hell for all we know Ruth!Doctor could be either Tentoo (the Metacrisis Doctor) or Donna Noble regenerated?

Ok, so Gallifreyan history remembers three of the founding fathers of their society; Rassilon, Omega and The Other, so-called because no one remembers The Other’s real name.

Omega apparently died harnessing the power of a deliberately collapsed star which gave the Time Lords the ability to time travel, leaving Rassilon and The Other in charge. The Other was stuck on Gallifrey trying to make sure Rassilon didn’t become a despot when really all they just wanted to explore the universe. Sound familiar?

According to the Seventh Doctor novel Lungbarrow (which you can find here since copies currently sell for £800+ on eBay/Amazon), at the very beginning of Time Lord society, Gallifrey was cursed with sterility and developed genetic redistribution devices called Looms to reproduce (similar to the progenation machine used to create Jenny from the Tenth Doctor in the episode ‘The Doctor’s Daughter’).

Lungbarrow (basically, the novelisation of the ‘Cartmel Masterplan’) revealed that The Other threw themself into the Looms due to a squabble with Rassilon (I don’t want to give away too much if anyone wants to read the novel. SPOILERS!) and was reincarnated millions of years later as The Doctor. This would have been revealed on-screen during Sylvester McCoy’s run, had the series not been cancelled in 1989 (there were hints the Seventh Doctor remembered their previous life as The Other during Season 25 (1988)).

So, my theory is that Ruth!Doctor is The Other, existing millions of years before The Doctor.

What if The Other finally gave in to the urge to explore the universe and ran away from Gallifrey, and the responsibility of keeping Rassilon sane. What if Rassilon sent Gat either to execute Ruth!Doctor/The Other because they knew something damaging about the true origin of Time Lord society?

This would explain why the Thirteenth Doctor can’t remember Ruth!Doctor, why the sonic screwdriver recognises them as the same person, and their differences in their attitudes towards weapons. 

In some accounts (because Doctor Who ‘canon’ is not like Star Wars canon, it’s timey-wimey; some parts of time are fixed, they must always happen and others are fluid and can be rewritten, and sometimes the writers decide I do what I want) Rassilon supposedly discovered regeneration and introduced it to Time Lord biology presumably through genetic manipulation. Rassilon also decided on the twelve regeneration limit (rude!).

However, in ‘A Good Man Goes To War’, Vastra states The Doctor had told her Time Lords evolved the ability to regenerate through their exposure to the Time Vortex.

Like this awesome theory, I think the ability to regenerate came from the Timeless Child, who could have been an ordinary Gallifreyan (or The Doctor themself), and the Time Lords exploited this child, and stole regeneration from them, and covered it up.

For all we know, Ruth!Doctor had been living with this whole lie all her lives, until discovering the truth in this incarnation and deciding to do something about it.