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chibivesicle · 2 years ago

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I would love to see an in depth breakdown of Stampede’s reworkings of Trigun’s female characters and how they compare to their original counterparts. Because although I’m not normally one to cry “misogyny” but I can’t help but feel like whoever decided to turn multifaceted characters like Meryl, Luida and Elendira into cutesy waifus and reduced Rem to the classic ‘dead mother’ trope has some explaining to do. There’s also the matter of the plants in Stampede being forcefully impregnated via Knives violating Vash, complete with swollen pregnant stomachs, which to me is just straight up, well, cursed(although something similar happened in the manga).

I can’t help but feel like there’s a lot of unspoken misogyny here.

Hello!

Now that Trigun Stampede is over and the dust has settled, I can 100% say that I agree with you. The level of lazy misogynistic writing in Stampede was high. When I was doing the weekly videos, I kept thinking, "Well, it isn't that bad. Is it?" until looking at the entire show and realizing, that "Yeah. It was terrible."

I'm not even going to touch on the entire sexual/impregnation of the plants via Knives by violating Vash at all! I'm sure one could write an entire meta about it and how cringe it is but I'm not feeling that vibe.

I'll focus on the female cast and how they were shortchanged from the original work to this 're-imagining'. I will say that the Trigun manga, focuses less on the female characters. But they are all totally competent individuals who are not driven by the romantic need to marry some man. Overall, the '98 anime was even better by creating the quartet of Vash, Meryl, Milly and Wolfwood. I mentioned it from time to time in my reviews but the original anime passed the Bechdel test. Which on paper isn't a high bar for media to clear but soooo many things fail that test.

For overall female character significance and roles in the Trigun universe (multiverse?) the '98 anime is top. Meryl and Milly play a major role in how Vash and Wolfwood behave and also bear witness to their actions and support them. Yet, they are not weak but instead demonstrate how four people, will have four different ways to solve the exact same problem.

However, the manga has a greater cast of women and cannot be ignored. As you mentioned, Luida and Elendira appeared in Stampede from Trimax and both are great characters. Aaannnnddd, Stampede ruined them for me.

The best way to approach all of the key women of the series, we'll break it down by character.

Meryl Stryfe - insurance adjuster/reporter

Trigun manga - secondary character. Acts as human viewpoint watching Vash, reacting to the power of his angel arm, contemplating what it is like to kill someone with a firearm. Age at the start of manga 21. Age after time skip, 23. By the end of the series 24-25 ish?

Trigun '98 - main character. Acts as human viewpoint in observing Vash [again] but also feels compassion towards him as their friendship grows. Senior and experienced insurance adjuster both a friend and mentor for Milly. Competent on the job, hard worker, gets things done, leans for logic over emotions. Age not mentioned in anime, but likely similar to manga. Vocal, opinionated, and ready to take on any situation.

Stampede - main character. Newbie reporter for November news under Roberto. Older starting age of 23, yet acts like she's 16 or something. Her character is a disappointment in this version; with her being junior to Roberto there is no senior female in the cast and it shows. By no means is Meryl supposed to be a perfect person (this is Nightow after all) but he does not write cutesy female characters. No female character in his cast is like how she is in Stampede.

Milly Thompson - insurance adjuster/reporter/???TBD

Trigun manga - secondary character. Strong, emotional, a bit naive but still able to help Wolfwood out during a fight. Continues to be the junior to Meryl and follows her to their secondary career as journalists.

Trigun '98 - main character. Foil to both Meryl and Wolfwood. Besides Vash making Wolfwood change his viewpoints, she also pushes him to think about things differently. Most importantly, she doesn't judge him based on his actions and only shows that she cares. Emotionally intelligent, naive and honest to a fault.

Stampede - next season?

Enough said right there. Why was Milly replaced by lame ass old man info dump Roberto?

Rem Severem - Key team member of Project Seeds/Vash and Knives adopted mother

Trigun manga - Rem is the mother/moral guidepost for Vash in the manga. He tries to uphold her ideals and moral code to not kill anyone. She told him about the death of her significant other which left her feeling lost. However, a dream about her taking a train with a origin station but no destination created her philosophy that everyone's ticket to the future is blank.

She is an incredibly compassionate individual and even tries to stop Vash from committing suicide being injured herself in the events. It causes him to snap out of it as he put her in medical care. However, her philosophy is impossible to practice on the planet where the ships crashed. Yet for ~150 years Vash is able to not kill another person.

Trigun '98 - The exact same role as in the manga but with less backstory fleshed out. However, her quote of one's ticket to the future is blank is the same. Additionally, the anime adds in her love of a creation song which becomes a musical motif in the anime linking Vash to her and to the present day humans as they try to create a new world. Hence the creation myth song as Project Seeds was to allow for them to restart.

The anime links Rem to Meryl when Vash finds himself lost as she supports him before he heads off for his final showdown with Knives. It shows that a very similar philosophy still exists within humanity and that Vash can continue on with his personal moral compass.

Stampede - At first, we learn who Rem is, unlike the anime or manga. She shows us that she saved Vash and Nai and that she loved them. However, that was it. We never hear her personal philosophy. The flashback only focuses on how she tries to raise them as her own children but no deep moral discussions are had like in the manga or even the anime.

Again, this is a huge determent to her character in Stampede; the series very much went for tell not show. So to try to convey Rem's character through showing when the default was tell made it a disappointment. I waited, waited, waited for her to say at least some version of her quote about the ticket being blank. Nothing.

Rem barely spoke in the scheme of things. Nor did Vash have dream or one sided conversations with her in Stampede which also made it hard to understand why he wouldn't kill.

Elendira the Crimsonnail - 13th Gung-ho Gun/nail producing child-plant hybrid who doesn't age

Trigun manga - A trans woman and the strongest of the Gung-ho Guns. Truly a witty and fashionable individual with her briefcase that allows for her to pierce opponents with a rain of oversized nails. Elendira's character is quite nuanced, watching the fall of humanity on the planet while having complex conversations with Legato. The two of them are frequently at odds but both see their roles to assist Knives in his goals.

I found her character to be the most sane/rational viewpoint into Knives and his organization. She always has a witty remark or comment and seems to have chosen to work with Knives thinking that this would be the winning side.

After she's revealed to be trans, that's pretty much it. It isn't brought up time and time again, nor does it define her character - you know with the whole ending of humanity on the planet taking more precedence.

Her final battle against Livio is epic and overall, I liked her character. She was badass in the best way possible.

Stampede - Ugh, where do I even start. . . . Elendira appears to be a perma-prepubescent child being a human-plant hybrid. We see her with Grey the Ninelines when they steal a plant in episode 3 wearing a pink dress. So maybe a girl? Maybe a boy? No gender?

But then, when we get the Monev the Gale/Rollo flashback, she speaks to young Rollo calling herself an angel and appears the same age. Present events put her fight with Vash, Wolfwood, Meryl and Roberto 25 years later and she looks the same. Apparently, being a human-plant hybrid makes her inferior to Vash or Knives since she still has to plug herself into one of the glass aquariums to regulate her 'gate'. So, not a plant plant, but lacking the skills of an independent plant. Sort of a crappy outcome the more you think about it.

Despite her age being at least 35 (say she was 10 when she met Rollo) or even older than that - she acts like a child. Gets angry like a child and has not mentally matured at all. Again, didn't get the rapid aging bits of Vash so still mentally a child? Unless I am told otherwise, I'm gonna stick with she/her pronouns and based on the rest of writing for Stampede, they likely want us to see her as cis not trans.

You cannot even compare Trimax Elendira to Stampede. They are not the same character other than the name. They don't even use nails the same way! As far as I'm concerned, she's pointless in Stampede. A cutesy angry girl who will kill you with her gate manifested nails.

Luida - Leader of [un]crashed seeds ship/botanist

Trigun manga - leader of humans from the Project Seeds ship that had been in hiding with several generations of humans living on it above the barbaric planet below. As events worsen, becomes the de facto leader of all the humans resisting Knives and coordinates with the NML cavalry. Wise, straight shooting and in charge. Brad works for her after the death of the Sensei by the Leonoff the Puppet master situation.

She never really steals any scene but is critical to the success of their plan and acts as the link between the humans from Earth and the people on the planet's surface. Always framed in a strong position of leadership. A very androgynous appearance with spiked black hair, and simple clothing.

Stampede - Simplified to the second stand in mother figure for Vash. She also gets aged up with her first meeting Vash when he was a teenager and brought him into their home. Instead of being older than Brad, she is a peer with him and both of them are considerably older in the current time point. A plant biologist expert - something which is not even close to the role that she played in Trimax.

She also elicits the anti-mother anger from Knives in Stampede, meaning that Knives only wants Vash to himself. No women allowed to be mothers for them! Compared to the manga, she again like Elendira is a totally different character. We don't see a whole lot of that natural leadership and commanding presence from the manga.

Therefore, of this list of key female characters their fates are as such in Stampede:

Meryl - aged up but down in maturity and experience.

Milly - missing.

Rem - dead mother trope. Never said anything to convey why Vash is the way he is.

Elendira - infantilazation to a perma-child.

Luida - kind older lady/second mother.

Therefore, two female characters have been relegated to mother figures; Rem and Luida. Meryl was made less mature to be the junior to an old asshole. Elendira is as far as we know a perma-child.

All mature women with years of experience have been removed from the story. Yeah, I enjoyed the previous versions of Trigun for their killer girls, uwu-waifus, and doting mothers. Really connect with these sorts of characters. . . .

I'm sure you can tell I'm being sarcastic. Thus, I will rewatch the '98 anime, or reread the manga and turn my attention to Kekkai Sensen. Where there are more excellent female characters - shocking! K.K., Chain Sumeragi, Luciana Estavez, Aligura, Michella Watch (a blind woman in a wheelchair took out a Beyondian mad doctor remember?) and in the anime, White.

If Stampede wanted to do scary cute well, they only needed to look at Aligura. One of the 13 kings and a gothic lolita. It takes ovaries to liquefy your boyfriend and inject him into your crush. But hey, it works. 'Cause based on her dismissal of Leo thinking that he was important to her, she's not one to cry like a perma-child like Elendira in Stampede. When one's monster truck, car eating vehicle of destruction causes thousands of casualties, you are pretty badass.

#ask #answered ask #trigun stampede #trigun anime #trigun manga #trigun maximum #meryl stryfe #milly thompson #luida #rem severem #elendira the crimsonnail

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c-hrona · 1 year ago

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A Surprise Gift!

After the events of the last comic, Vash and Nick receive a little gift from their best friends.

ID in Alt!

#trigun #trigun maximum #vashwood #vash the stampede #nicholas d. wolfwood #meryl stryfe #milly thompson #livio the double fang #razlo trigun #brad #luida #miss melanie #lina #trigun maximum spoilers #chronart #i have no justifications besides “i wanted to draw them happy forever”#but don't worry #the fluff phase is over #i fully recovered

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the-east-art · 2 years ago

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Another thing I really like about Ship Three and how it portrays the aftermath of the fall is when Luida comforts Vash when he first wakes up. He tells her that he wanted to die, and Luida tells him 'we can't talk like that, even if we think we mean it'. I feel like this does a good job of conveying the fact that everyone on Ship Three has survivors guilt. She says it like it's something that she's had to tell the others, even herself, in the aftermath of The Big Fall. In general, I really like Ship Three in Tristamp and how it portrays the survivors.

#trigun #tristamp #trigun stampede #luida

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chuthulhu-reads · 2 years ago

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[ID: Several panels from Trigun Maximum. The first shows a mixed group of colonists, all looking sad or scared, and one saying, "170 out of the 480 people in the colony were lost. The panic is fading... but..." The second panel is a close-up of Vash's face, his teeth gritted and expression pained as he says, "...I'm sorry." The next panel is a wider image of Vash, who's sitting up in his hospital bed but hunched over with both hands fisted in the sheets as he says, "It's all my fault..." Someone off-panel interjects, "H-hey, what are you talking about, Vash?!"

The next panels are from a couple of pages later. The first shows Luida, an androgynous middle-aged woman with a calm, sharp face saying, "Now please... no more depressing talk, okay?" The next panel is of Vash's expression, calm now as he looks up at her, as she continues, "You are part of your family. Right?" The last panel shows Luida turning and waving to the other colonists, calling, "Alright, everyone! Back to the waiting room! We've got a lot of work to do!" The colonists are all hyper-simplified but have wide-open mouths and dismayed expressions as they yell "Whaaaaaa?" End ID.]

First, I love this scene. I love that what Knives was likely hoping for was--well, he was probably hoping for everyone to die, but if not that, then the outcome from the '98 anime, where the survivors hate Vash for what happened. But the manga's established the colony differently, as a family that Vash has been fully integrated in and loved by for generations, and so they don't hate or blame him. They, quite rightly, go "No, this didn't happen because of you, I think perhaps this happened because of the fucked up puppet guy and the weird flesh puppet guy, you know, the ones who did all of the murders. And also your genocidal brother that we all know about". They love him and they will NOT let him take misplaced blame, and for that, I love them.

Secondly, I think one of Stampede's greatest crimes is hitting both Rem and Luida with the Generic Prettification beam, because manga Luida is such a CHAD. Some panels show her with a hint of crow's feet and other slight wrinkles that mean you could tell me that she's any age between 35 and 70 and I would believe you. She wears a CAPE. She has no time for gender presentation she's got a colony of hundreds to run and the human race to save with the satellite project. I love her and I was interested in Stampede Luida when I thought she was going to be the ancestor of the Luida we already know, but NO. She was probably created after the '98 anime was made so I hold no malice for that but we were ROBBED of seeing Chad Luida animated and I am MAD about it

#Trigun #Luida #Arguably Meryl got hit by the Generic Prettification beam too #If they do the same to Milly and Chronica I will be committing acts of terrorism

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ramblingcoyote · 2 years ago

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Luida: it's so nice when Vash visits us

Vash: um Luida? Is the biodome on it's spring phase?

Luida: yes it is actually, why do you a-

Vash: *covered in pollen*

Luida: Oh! I'm sorry, Vash I should have warned you ahead of time. It seems the flora are happy to see you as well

Meryl: ???

#trigun stampede #vash the stampede #luida #meryl stryfe #humor

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doodleferp · 20 days ago

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For the naga au has anyone ever tried to steal Vash and Ari's eggs? And if they did managed to steal one I think Ari will become an angry mama bear and won't rest until she gets her baby back! May god have Mercy on the Poachers soul!

Thankfully, our lovely couple hasn't had to worry about that! Vash already has some legal protections due to his status as one of the only two male nagas on the planet. Vash's territory is also too big for the government to effectively build a protective wall around, so they just set up bases in towns and in the jungle and patrol it to make sure everything's okay. Vash doesn't mind in the least and he is very friendly if a non-aggressive human crosses his path. I feel like Vash not only lets other nagas sleep in/hang out in his territory, but he lets humans live in his territory with no real issues. He's like a guardian angel for those towns and he's an instant celebrity whenever he pops into one. People will clean him up and bandage his wounds and give him food and treats and a warm heated bed. He loves it.

Like I mentioned in the lore post for this AU, only two people in the present know where Vash’s real den is, Ari and Luida. Luida has a general idea of where it is, but Ari KNOWS-knows where it is. Mostly because she lives there with him. Knives and a bunch of unrelated people are trying to find it, but Vash is a smart cookie and has a bunch of proxy dens around his turf so that people won’t be able to tell which one is the “real” den.

But on the topic of poachers. Vash and Ari have tangled with their fair share of ne'er-do-wells trying to take a piece or more of Vash and they deal with them accordingly. Vash is obviously nonviolent with his approaches, trying to scare them off or get them so lost in the jungle that they have no choice but to abandon the hunt and find their way back. Ari is much more direct — she may (or may not) not have her electric powers, but she does have knives, a crossbow, and more knowledge of the jungle than any human alive. She doesn't kill them because it would make Vash upset, but she does rough them up enough to send them running with their tails between their legs.

And as for the babies...the world doesn't know they exist yet. They live in the real Vash den and thanks to the previous loss of Indira and Sylvia, Ari and Vash don't want to release these babies to the public before they're old enough to defend themselves. The babies, however, are very interested in the human towns and really want to go see one. They get SUPER excited when Vash and Ari bring them human stuff.

Side note, I'm thinking of calling this AU Trigun Snakeskin. Thoughts anyone?

Also side note -- worm Vash seekers might want to check out this fanfic by @triplesilverstar.

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