#love the fact that there is a tolkien character called turin

[trecciolinoooooo]

Turin from Turin neeee he chews cicles everyday and drink a lot of wine from the Langhe and water from turet neee

and remember that "Turin canta la vita"

[tanoraqui]

hey!! i love your blog so much your takes are *chefs kiss*

i saw an Amazing post a few months ago where someone laid out a really cool plan for a silmarillion tv show and i cant find it again. it haunts my every waking moment. i think i saw it on your blog so i figured id ask if you knew it.

Either way, have a great day!

(note: I got this ask several thousand years ago, and am answering it now because I asked my roommates if I should write something serious tonight, or something ridiculous, or read a book; and they said ridiculous.) (note 2: I wrote the above several days ago. I'm posting at 6.5k words) (note 3: I'm going to pretend this is a deliberately timed gift to @thelordofgifs for their latest fic updates, which were bullet points of heartfelt and sober compelling canon divergence. this...is bullet points of [heartfelt? compelling?] lunacy. I hope you might enjoy it.)

Are you thinking of this, the "Supernatural but make it Silmarillion lore, and also women" show of my dreams? (Me, approaching the Tolkien estate with an offer for the rights to the Silmarillion: I swear, I will ONLY show the First Age in limited flashbacks. Everything else will be the characters as they are at least 10,000 years later, maybe even with an active framing device to identify them as modern interpretations of the characters...")

Oh huh, I forgot I thought a bunch more about that "teeechnically-not-AU" and never added it to that post. Regardless of whether it's the show you were thinking of, dear Anon:

one of the protagonists is definitely the reincarnation of Fëanor. Her name is Seraphina, which translates to something like "fiery divine being", bc her mom had a good sense of these things. They don't know this at first

her slightly older twin sister is Martha, named after their grandmother but it does mean the feminine of "master", because I spent at least an hour trying to translate any name Turin ever had into something reasonably modern and this is the best I could do (they also don't know about this reincarnation at first, ofc)

their father was killed by some sort of monster when they were babies so their mother took up monster-hunting ranging, etc. etc.

(the underground community of modern monster-hunters are called Rangers, in reference to the roaming heroes of old)

Seraphina, the Wild One(TM), ran away to go to college, where she double-majored in astrophysics and mechanical engineering and double-minored in linguistics and metallurgical engineering, and wrote an art history thesis. Martha, the Dutiful One(TM), stayed with their mother and kept ranging. They reunite when Martha shows up on Phina's doorstep because "Mom went on a hunting trip and hasn't been home in a few days", etc. etc.

the Bobby-style substitute parent should really, to (kind of) round this out, be a dwarf or hobbit. The full "Team Free Will" should represent all peoples of Arda... But I'm not making up OCs right now (yet)

a unifying legend of the Ranger community is that their unofficial network has been supported and guided for millennia by their cousins, the peredhel, Elrohir and Elladan, who quite simply never Chose and have been wandering the earth, saving people and hunting things, ever since their sister died. They don't NEED to Choose until they die, technically!

This is, in fact, true - or, it was. Until about 25 years ago, when [flips a coin] Elrohir married our heroes' mother, settled down into peaceful domesticity, and a few years later died dramatically to buy [throws a dart at a wheel of names] Laura and their children time to escape the whatever.

Laura knew about his profession and that he was older than he looked, but not his whole deal. She found that out later while vengefully hunting monsters...and never told her daughters.

The plot of Season 1 involves unravelling this mystery, including at some point meeting their elusive uncle Elladan (who has maybe gone a little mad with the sudden death of his twin? That'd be a fun season antagonist/arc/theme...dealing with grief...very topical!)

By the end of s1, all of the above have probably had a nice closure-giving(-ish) confrontation/conversation with Elrohir's ghost - who's been waiting in Mandos for his wife and/or brother despite Mandos's INCREASINGLY strident blandishments to stop acting like a cat in a doorway and choose - and Laura and Elladan are both dead in suitably dramatic circumstances.

...or, Elladan is. Apparently John Winchester didn't die until s2e1! So, what happens is:

- (earlier in the s1 finale episode, Laura, noticed something once or twice which her daughters didn't - saw a curl of smoke, seemed to be examining a McGuffin extra closely...)

- Laura has been mildly injured, and someone needs to guard a McGuffin or maybe a random innocent civilian caught up in this, so she stays behind while Phina and Martha go off to deal with whatever the actual big bad of the season is. Maybe a cult trying to sacrifice half-elves for some reason? Directed, though not personally managed, by whatever killed Elrohir in the first place, which is...I gotta figure an OC balrog? Like, not one of the big ones from canon. We'll just call her (Laura's) Bane henceforth.

- not long later, while Phina and Martha are fistbumping in the remains of the cult's hideout Seraphina maybe have used chemical explosives), or maybe discretely looting Elladan's body for useful weapons laying their uncle to rest, the scene cuts back to Laura

- she's pacing, patrolling. Ready for a fight. She senses something and goes even tenser, drawing her ancient sword. It glows softly blue - but this is no orc. Heavy footsteps, flickering shadows and firelight, maybe the sound of wings. We do not see the enemy, just a middle-aged woman in improvised combat gear with a pistol in one hand and a Gondolin-made sword in the other, and a look of iron determination and defiance. She pulls off the bandage on her arm, revealing that she'd faked her injury so the girls would leave her behind.

- "I knew it was you," she greets her old enemy, unflinching, as a faint reprise rings unnoticed in the Great Music. She moves to attack, met by a whip-crack and a flash of fire, and cut to black.

Season 2 starts where s1 ended, for Martha and Seraphina. They're almost back at their car (the beloved 1967 Chevy Shadowfax). Note: few times in s1, Phina has had strange visions or nightmares, never anything prophetic but once a good clue to defeating the MotW...

She reels with the force and horror of this one. Darkness, utter and choking, pierced eventually by a single desperate torch. A dark and empty hall where there should be life and light. Flickering firelight reveals blood on the floor...

She gasps, "Mom," and demands that Martha drive, drive, fucking drive faster already -

They're too late, of course. Laura is long-since dead.

...so, back to Monster of the Week, with additional focus on tracking down the Bane!

Seraphina's strange dreams and visions get more frequent, more memorable. Sometimes they're peaceful, full of beautiful Light. More often they're dark, or at least, dim - climbing strange, starlit mountains (finding a cousin of aconite which turns out to also be useful for defeating werewolves). Choking grief as her hand brushes the air just above a vibrant tapestry, too afraid to ruin it with touch. Fire in her throat as she shouts world-shaking words in a language she doesn't remember (she repeats them a moment later, fending off a corrupted wind-spirit, and it flinches even before Phina feels a burst of vicious, raging, burning strength.)

Seraphina is curious as hell and keeps pushing herself to learn more, see more. Do more. It's not just visions, eventually - she starts to read minds, here and there. She's always been a fidgeter, happiest with some petty creative task of wire and beads or yarn in her hands, but now she can swear that sometimes her craft supplies sing at times, directly surpassing her ears, and she can make things with quality, with power. A new-knitted scarf is sturdy as a gorget. Glass beads glow. The more Phina does, the more she's frustrated rather than satisfied - she knows she's missing something, and she HATES being ignorant. Being wrong.

Martha, always the responsible one, especially feeling the need to be so now that their mom has died, wishes she would stop. Wishes she wouldn't put herself, put both of them, in danger like this. Martha is literally game to fight an orc with her fists one on one, any day of the week; she's no stranger to a quick temper and impulsive action. But she grew up! Why can't her sister!

(Martha: [venting the above to a stranger in a bar or something. Meanwhile, Seraphina has found an medieval Songbook and is trying to, like, apply principals of Elvencraft to chemical engineering. more arguing ensues.])

Toward the end of the season, there's, idk, several murders at the site of a geothermal drilling experiment in the North Sea, and oh shit, Bane is trying to get something that came out of that drill shaft! Violent interrogation of some evil minions reveals that it's no less precious thing than a Silmaril! Our heroes read about those recently in some ancient tome! (Phina got a headache so bad, and a sense of being aflame, that she passed out.)

In the third-to-last episode of the season, they hunt the Silmaril to the unlucky random research facility to which it's been taken. Mundane authorities and/or scientists are already coveting it as a potential energy source, adding extra mooks...who mostly just die when Laura's Bane arrives. But our girls get to it just slightly faster. The jewel is in a jead-lined box. Phina has been increasingly consumed by single-minded focus on getting this thing; even as the Ban storms in all fire and darkness, she's furiously picking the lock. She flings back the lid; we see a shining gold-white jewel - and the Light consumes the screen.

The second-to-last episode starts with pure Light - then it fades to simple Mingling, as the Noldor hold a funeral for Miriel. They had rites for the fallen in their starlit home of old, when they knew no return. They are having a modified version now, knowing that in her weariness she will, at least, take a very long time; in the hope that it will help those who loved her move through their grief.

- young Fëanor (age 5ish), tears running down his cheeks, whispers to his father that he is sorry, so sorry he killed her. Finwë denies it fiercely, lovingly, and holds him tight. Indis approaches, seeking to offer comfort; Finwë sees her over Fëanor's head and, gratefully, shakes his head. She retreats.

- but in the next memory, it is Fëanor (age 10ish) who watches Finwë and Indis, as they move joyously in unison around their wedding dance floor. Someone says something to him, he responds bitterly.

- (I'm not sure exactly what narrative of Fëanor's life I want to construct here, but assume subsequent memories/short scenes include: dislike of half-siblings (ft. fear of loss/abandonment masked as superiority complex), finding genuine joy and contentment in craft, exploration, and Nerdanel & their children; Melkor & rising tensions with Fingolfin, the Silmarils, the sword Incident, banishment (ft. savage dislike of Valar), Finwë's death (the same memory that struck when Laura died!), the Oath, Alqualondë, the theft and burning of the ships...and Amrod...and shortly thereafter, Fëanor himself, in a rush that only wasn't suicide because he really thought he could bust in and kill a Vala right up until he realized he absolutely could not do that.)

- (very fast final montage of key events post death, only snapshots, maybe styled as tapestry seen from Vairë's Halls? Fingolfin, crowned, raising Maedhros from a bow and embracing him; the glorious hosts and castles of the Noldor, Dagor Bragollach, Fingolfin's death, Doriath & Celegorm, Caranthir, Curufin's deaths, Sirion & Amras's death (both with the Silmaril evading them in the background), Morgoth's defeat by Host of the West with Eärendil shining far overhead, the final attack/theft, Maedhros's death, Maglor flinging the third into the sea and collapsing)

- camera close on Seraphina's face as she opens her eyes. They are shining with Light. She says, "Fuck."

FINAL EPISODE OF S2 STARTS WITH:

- a few second earlier: Martha sees from across the room as Phina opens the box and a joyous Light shines forth, and her sister collapses. The Silmaril falls and rolls.

- Martha doesn't have time to see where it rolls, because she has to fight the monster that killed both her parents. We've seen Laura's Bane in the shape of a woman with cavern-black hair and fiery eyes a few times before, and when it killed Laura and Elrohir, we glimpsed much more. But 2 episodes ago was the first time we saw it in all its terrible, burning darkness. The building is falling apart around it. There were a couple security guards and a scientist here; they're dead within moments.

- like her mother, Martha started out with a gun and a sword. She quickly gives up on the gun - it IS a special magic gun, but she's just better with a sword. She's snarking at the monster as she fights, because this is a gritty urban fantasy show so she's going to die, but by Eru she's going to die with sarcasm on her lips.

- the Bane's whip finally catches her around the wrist. It's not clear if it's the pain of the break or the burn that makes her drop her sword. The Balrog steps over it and grabs her by the throat. Darkness enwraps her, the searing, choking claws and the all-encompassing wings and the swallowing of her vision -

- Light pierces it like a blade. The Balrog falls back, dropping Martha to the floor.

- there stands her sister, Silmaril raised, almost glowing herself with its Light. Her eyes blaze with the particularly fiery Light that was always Fëanor's.

- Power in her voice, in English she says, "I am Seraphina Elrohiel [cool epithet she's picked up as a hunter]"; in the most traditional lisping Quenya she adds, "and I am Fëanáro Finwë-Curufinwë." English again: "I wrought this jewel five ages of the world ago…and to be honest, I don't really know what I can do with it now."

- - (the soundtrack crescendos, the Music crescendos; unseen, all around Arda and beyond, beings tuned into the Great Song of Ëa know that Fëanor once again holds a Silmaril, and go oh, shit, fuck!!)

- she smiles, fey and burning. "Do you think it's a good idea to stay and find out?"

- Laura's Bane flees with a snarl.

- Martha gets to her knees, and no further. She's panting, still catching her breath, bleeding and bruised and burned, and staring up at her incandescent sister(?).

- Seraphina (who is, has always been, Fëanáro Curufinwë) stays standing and glaring for a moment more, making sure the enemy has truly gone. Then -

- - [note: it came up, in their hasty recent recent research into the Silmarils while chasing them, that they are blessed such that evil hands can't touch them. they'd hoped this would be protection against the Bane, if they got there too late to stop it]

- - [note: in the very very brief memory-views of Maedhros and Maglor's last moments, it was clear that their grips on the Silmarils were agony]

- Phina falls to her knees, Silmaril dropping from her hand without protest. Once again it rolls offscreen, glow faded but still bright. All force of presence gone, she cradles her burned hand and sobs in agony and irreparable loss, not to mention the sheer overwhelming experience of everything.

- older sister instincts (again: despite the fact that they're twins) gets Martha moving when nothing else did. Still not actually sure what just happened, she crawls forward and hugs her sister.

...then they get out of there. Martha picks the Silmaril up carefully with a piece of cloth and puts it back in the lead-lined box, and Phina carries the box. For the rest of the episode, they hunt down Laura's Bane before it can escape them utterly - unless it tries to come back and get the Silmaril while they're still off-balance, which is entirely possible! Either way, they kill it so dead!

Season ends with the two of them sitting in a dingy motel room, or maybe back in the Shadowfax [car], staring at the Silmaril box. Martha says, "So...what do we do with this?" Phina says, "We find out what the hell happened to the other two!"

IN SEASON THREE...

...I stop having particularly coherent ideas for what happens, is what happens in season three

honestly, I was originally conceiving of this as 5 seasons a la Supernatural didn't it have a great show finale in 2010? so great. thank goodness they didn't make 10 more seasons for some canonically godforsaken reason. But Fëanor retrieving even just one Silmaril would so kick off an s4 level of divine intervention and incipient apocalypse...

I dunno, or maybe they CAN have a full season of Monster of the Week plus arcing plot which is half standard hunting, half various supernatural entities tracking them down either to steal the Silmaril or to kill Fëanor (again) for her many crimes?

They retrieve 1 Silmaril that season, while evading, idk, I guess Sauron is our Lilith equivalent... And it WOULD be fun to have s4 start with Martha kicking open Mandos's doors (she's holding 2 Silmarils; she can kick open whatever doors she wants) and demanding her obnoxious sister back...

(We COULD do a thing where the Valar deliberately put Fëanor back asap, but lbr they...would probably rather not, even if they need her alive to do certain things. On the other hand, if they did, what a fun conflict for her! On the third hand, SOMEONE has to Lúthien the other's Beren at least once - not that Martha is singing. She's going more for the 'threatens Ainur with swords' side of her heritage.)

(That WOULD create a fun 'Martha has been doing increasingly badass and angsty shit offscreen (while Seraphina was dead)' scenario that could lead smoothly into some flashbacks about what Martha was doing before the show started - namely, increasingly badass (and angsty) shit while Seraphina was in college...)

Because in terms of focus, the first 2 seasons are a little more about Seraphina. Having not Ranged for a while, she's more the audience's pov character to start, and then the big plotty drama is focussed on her in s2...and in s3, as they hunt the next Silmaril and she adjusts to being... That is, Fëanor adjusts to being...

She was Fëanor for a MUCH longer time than she's been Seraphina, but she's been Seraphina more recently and kinda more...vividly? She hasn't fully processed being Fëanor. Her hröa is human (and female-shaped and human-female-gendered, and elves don't define gender the same way and don't have gendered pronouns at all, so she's sticking with 'she/her' and it's not a big deal), and her fëa has been acting human, so her memory capacity is still mostly human, as are her reflexes, her need for sleep, etc... She's getting better, but it takes time.

But boy has this enhanced ALL of Seraphina's natural attention-seeking, forward-leaping, fight-starting, prideful, self-centered Protagonist(TM) behavior!

Which is driving Martha CRAZY, all the moreso because there's reason for it now. Aside from the fact that even with no memory of her past life, Seraphina was always brilliant, while Martha was just...normal at best. Clumsy and un-witty except with a weapon in her hand. Prone to sulking and shyness. Downright unlucky, while the universe seems to shower blessings on her sister.

Even when Fëanor is trying not to start a fight, she's so condescending. to her sister who is a mere mortal Man. Having been one for 25-odd years - still being one, in fact - Fëanor has lost much of her suspicion of Man as an usurping species (it was never really about Men anyway). But she's SO condescending.

(Martha IS her sister, still. Martha can hold the Silmaril without the Oath pushing Seraphina to burning wrath, because she is Fëanor's kin.)

(Though "Fëanor's kin" was only ever a stand-in for, roughly, "people Fëanor could trust to temporarily hold a Silmaril because he knew they'd give it back to him instantly if he asked." So, as the rift deepens between then, as she grows paranoid again...)

...returning to the point above: as Seraphëanor steps up as Person Who Can Explain Advanced Supernatural Shit, audience pov connects a little more with Martha. Also because Fëanor's radius of destruction is really fun to watch from the outside.

Yeah...Seraphina gets pretty high up her own ass over the course of s3, then dies, maybe heroically or maybe as foolishly as last time, then post-season hiatus smash cut to Martha kicking in Mandos's front door and dragging her back to life... I do love that.

SEASON FOUR...

After the shock wears of, the classic Fëanorian paranoia isn't helped by the fact that Martha IS keeping secrets. What she's been doing, who she's been doing it with...(some Maia, maybe even an Úmaia?) Though Arda's mythology doesn't have the same Heaven/Hell dichotomy as Earthly Christianity, so alaos we can't have the sexy sexy s4 thing of an angel on one sister's shoulder and a devil on the other's...

But basically I think s3 has to have been somewhat of a tragedy, as Túrin (unknowing) and Fëanor (just bad at this) played out their old tragedies in tandem. Rashness was often the undoing of both. Leaping to conclusions, action or both, though usually in opposite directions. With maybe a dash of parallels with ancient (ie, Second Age) Elf vs Man conflict - Martha is increasingly down on herself, but also, jealous of Seraphina's Protagonist Energy and increasingly ready to do some violence about it.

And none of that resolves in s3! Seraphina just gets killed!

So in s4, they have to figure it out. Seraphina needs to learn some sort of (gasp) humility, and how to let grievances (and loved ones) go. Martha needs to learn how to cope with regret and grief with means other than changing her name and moving to a different city.

(She's already starting, though! This time, she asked "what would Seraphina do', then broke into Mandos and demanded solutions!)

(...and Mandos, perhaps, was very ready to refuse until he got a good look at her fëa, silently went 'huh' in recognition, and waved them out.)

Then Martha starts having strange dreams and visions - maybe after they fight an ancient dragon? or maybe she already was, in the s3-s4 gap (after fighting an ancient dragon with her new Maia friend?)

Seraphina is initially PSYCHED about this- twinnies for real!! But they get some entity to look at Martha's fëa and they confirm that she's 100% a Man.

Monster of the Week episodes are still the main focus btw. Vampires and werewolves, cursed magical objects, rogue petty nature maiar, peacekeeping between factions of non-humans still dwelling secretly here and there... Though perhaps the masquerade is starting to fracture?

And, of course, some (other?) Maia has shown up and informed them that Sauron is embodied again and trying to complete a ritual to break a hole in the envelope of the world to let Melkor back in, which our heroes must stop!

Also, definitely need to get the 3rd Silmaril back this season. They got the one in the earth and the one in the sea...

- so, a fan favorite recurring character [a/n: IT'S MY IMAGINARY TV, I CAN IMAGINE THE FANDOM'S REACTIONS, TOO, AND ALSO TBH I'M CERTAIN I COULD DELIBERATELY CRAFT A FAN FAVORITE CHARACTER] is the twins' Uncle Earl, who isn't technically their uncle but rather an old family friend of their mother's. He is, in short, kind of an old kook. Some flavor of Southern - I'll flip a coin and say Louisianan? Lives on a houseboat, refuses to go ashore unless absolutely necessary because "the feds'll get me." Visiting nieces means there's someone else to go get groceries and gasoline (necessary, but he doesn't trust most delivery services or modern technology, either), so they've possibly never seen him set foot on land except maybe once on an isolated beach in rural Oregon. Fought in Korea. Has probably looked grizzled since age 12. Eats mostly fish, talks to birds, talks back to the radio.

- to be clear, this guy is not filling the Bobby 'faux-parent' role. ...okay maybe he is a little, emotionally. But he's not involved in "the family business." In terms of SPN characters, he's roughly Garth - appears once a season or so, is a delight for 1 episode, then we part ways. He calls Martha in s1 because there's been some "weird deaths" in the port he's in right now, and he knows they deal with "this sort of thing" but he can't get ahold of Laura. There's a mention of him in s2, that they called to tell him Laura had died. In s3, they need to lay low for a while so they join him on his boat for a few weeks, go stir-crazy and end up fighting a sea monster.

- Idk if he calls them again in s4 or they're trying to lie low again or they just run into him by chance...but they're dealing with MotW murders in some swampy Florida shore-town and on his ship (The Flower) when something much bigger than a swamp monster catches up with them. Say, Sauron sent an unstoppable Carcharoth-sized wolf monster, or maybe a super-vampire (some aerial combat would be fun), or just some Úmaia miniboss that a season or two would've been a season-climax boss fight...

- they're moored up when it arrives. Phina curses, Martha shouts for Earl to drive, drive the boat out as far and fast as he can! Earl was half-asleep at the table; he starts awake demanding if it's the feds?! Phina leaps to the wheel herself and slams the gas, while Martha grabs the old shotgun off the wall and fires at the giant shadowy wolf-monster.

They leave it howling on the pier. They'll have to go back and face it eventually, but they're not ready right now. Maybe they can even re-land far upshore, and it'll have lost their scent again...

- the giant shadow-wolf finishes howling starts chasing them running on the water

- Martha curses, and shouts Phina to drive faster. Earl (looking over Martha's shoulder, also cursed, almost impressed, at the sight of the wolf) tells her to give him the wheel. Phina shoves him away and shouts back as she yanks the wheel that they need to turn back, they can't win this fight on the water -

- the wolf is snapping at the Flower's keel. Phina curses in Valarian and yells at Earl to take the wheel and steer them back to land, while she runs back to help Martha fight the wolf.

- Earl flips a red lever in the [boat mechanics] cabinet under the wheel which we've probably seen before (Seraphina fixed something in s1), labeled "High Octane" and shouts, "Hold on, girls!" He slams the throttle again and the whole houseboat hydroplanes. The wolf falls overboard; Phina goes with it but Martha grabs her.

- the wolf gets to its feet on the water, and starts chasing them again

- "Confession time, girls!" Uncle Earl calls, steering the boat beyond full throttle while Martha and Phina get to their feet. "I did befriend your ma's dad while he was fighting in Korea. He whispered to the stars at night, when he felt lost." Adjusts a standing spyglass, tugs a string a couple times to turn on the lanterns on the prow and above the steering console, dons his navy blue-and-gold captain's hat. "I thought I couldn't have been happier to guide him home - then Elrohir met his Laura, and they fell in love. And had the two of you!"

- "Do you have a point?" Phina shrieks. She's scrambling to get her jacket out of her bag under one of the seats, because her Silmarils are in its pockets and the shadow-wolf is gaining. Martha, shooting at the wolf again, glances back, maybe having noticed that the old anecdote is phrased differently than before. Old Uncle Earl is standing unusually straight, his grizzled-gray hair gold-ish in the warm lantern light.

- "Yes!" he calls, jerking the boat away from the wolf again. Some of his Louisiana accent has fallen away, too. "Don't lose your wits - and keep holding on to something!"

- he tugs the light-cord again and the yellowy lantern-case above the wheel opens, and the light that shines forth is far brighter and paler. Its source falls into his hand as the lantern shakes with the Flower's speed, and he sets it on the brim of his hat - the illusion of which fades, leaving only the golden band on his brow with the Silmaril set upon, and Eärendil standing as tall, young, and golden-haired as when he first sailed the sacred seas. He gives the wheel another stern yank and the ship's prow rises even higher - and keeps rising, with the rest of the Flower in tow - the Foamflower, Vingilotë, every plank now aglow.

- "Also," he admits, looking over his shoulder to make sure neither of the twins has fallen off (again), "I'm your great-grandfather. I really am sorry to have - hey!"

- that's for Seraphina, who is Fëanor, Oath blazing in her heart, regaining her balance, sprinting up the deck and lunging with wrath in her eyes for the Silmaril.

- Eärendil dodges smoothly, while still keeping one hand on the wheel. "I said," he says reprovingly - while Martha bodily tackles her sister to the floor - "keep your wits Fëanáro. I'm here to help, as I ever have been for the people of Arda."

- the girls wrestle on the deck for a few more seconds before Seraphina calms down. It helps that they realize the wolf had grown giant wings of shadow and is chasing them aloft as well.

- btw: late in s4, the dwarvish researcher who's Bobby's fill-in and/or Martha's probably-trustworthy Maia friend should really be present as well for all of the above, but this ain't really about them. So I think they're just kinda. awkwardly Present for this family not-reunion. helping fight the wolf & all that.

- (Eärendil doesn't actually give back the Silmaril. But he lets Seraphina hold it for a few minutes, during which she is more at peace than she has been in millennia, and promises to let her have it again if/when she really needs it, if it isn't more urgently needed elsewhere. This is, more or less, satisfying to the Oath: as discussed "Fëanor's kin" was only ever shorthand for "people whom Fëanor could trust to hold a Silmaril without ever withholding it from him.")

Eeexcept it turns out that even Eärendil doesn't know that the Valar DO want Morgoth back, because they're kinda totally down to have Dagor Dagorath and reboot the world. Look it'll be great - Túrin - that's you, Martha - will help Eonwë and Tulkas slay him, then Fëanor will break the Silmarils, releasing the Light so that Eru can use it to Remake the world, Unmarred this time - Hey, where are you Children going? Stop stabbing people! Stab only the people we tell you to stab!

(Ulmo, ever wise, offscreen: When has that EVER worked? Especially with Fëanáro and his kin?)

Yeah, there's a scene very much like the end of SPN s4, wherein Martha gets grabbed by the celestial "good guys" and they admit that this is all kinda set-up but don't worry - here's your destined fuckoff-huge black sword, just wait a few minutes for your "sister" to once again achieve an evil end that's the exact opposite of what she intended; and then Martha has to convince the Maia she's been befriending all season to help her escape and go rescue Seraphina before she jumpstarts the apocalypse...

(Nb: Martha was already trying to stop Sauron from freeing Morgoth when the season started - she broke Seraphina out of Mandos party bc she loved and missed her sister, partly because she needed a Silmaril expert. But she's grown skeptical of the task somehow, while Seraphina - perhaps because Seraphina - has gotten vengefully obsessed with it. As Fëanor is wont to do. Hell, she has even more reason than she used to - she knows what Sauron did to her grandson.)

So, y'know

They do, of course, accidentally free Morgoth.

On the plus side, in the process, they get to jointly murder the SHIT out of Sauron, who was the REAL mastermind behind much of Laura's Bane's actions (and, honestly? Might've been the real one who killed Laura, and only set it up to look like a Balrog. Flames and shadows both can have many masters!)

SEASON FIVE, THE FINAL SEASON DEFINITELY FOLLOWED BY NO FURTHER SEASONS despite the temptation of a terrible sexy humanoid Ungoliant

I only have 3 ideas for season 5:

1. They go to Valinor at some point, of course. Perhaps to rally aid? The first elf they find, they introduce themselves grandly, Fëanor and Túrin Turambar here seeking allies to fight Morgoth! and the elf says blankly, "I have never heard of either of you." *squints* "You're Men, you say? Lord Ulmo keeps a Man on Tol Eressëa, I think. You could go to him?" But after that, as a running joke all episode, every other elf they meet recognizes Fëanor on sight (she has a very distinctive fëa) and immediately punches her in the face...and every other elf recognizes Tùrin on sight and all but tackle-hugs Martha while shouting joyfully that they never expected to see him again. Some (Beleg) actually do tackle-hug her (and nearly gets stabbed again) (#worthit).

2. To everyone's surprise, including the other Valar, Morgoth started his war upon creation subtly when he returned...but doesn't remain subtle for long, nor do those opposing him. By the end of the season, the masquerade that non-human sentient peoples and various other supernatural beings still live in Arda is all but shattered.

3. Then it's THOROUGHLY shattered in the finale. I don't know if the general human populace participates in the final battle - though I am SO weak for a moment when, like, the regular-ass armed forces, who are not necessarily allies to the heroes, show up to help fight a massive superhuman threat. When the SHIELD helicarrier shows up to evacuate civilians in Age of Ultron, when UNIT does pretty much anything in Doctor Who...I love it when the best protections & warriors the mundane human race could pull together also show the fuck up and help save the day because damnit, this is their planet too. ...Which is, in fact, very on-theme for Tolkien. So yes, actually, this definitely happens. Probably there's some conflict with US military forces mid-season, our heroes have to talk (fight & escape) their way out of being arrested for blowing up a national landmark while fighting a balrog, and the general in charge whom they'd half-convinced returns in the finale with a battalion to slam some missiles into Morgoth...

oh, and 4: Ar-Pharazón et al totally do come back from the dead. Probably on Morgoth's side lbr. They get a twisted undead immortality wherein they cannot die, just go on fighting for the dark lord to whom they once turned in jealous worship...

More importantly...

Okay, I really don't know exactly how the Dagor Dagorath goes. We're following the version that Eärendil will chase Morgoth from the skies; Tulkas, Eonwë and Túrin will fight him upon the field and Túrin will avenge his House and all the Race of Men by slaying him; and Fëanor will break the Silmarils and Yavanna will use their Light to remake the Trees, and the lands will be leveled or in some cases raised from the depths, and everyone will live happily ever after except possibly Men who aren't mentioned beyond Túrin.

This is what the Valar expect to happen (though they don't actually know-know Eru's plans.)

What happens instead is...

Most of the Morgoth-defeating does go exactly like that. Except probably they don't kill him for good - they CAN'T, because the Marring of the world is part of what Morgoth is, and the only way to undo him completely is to remake the world completely.

Which maybe could be done, by Eru if no one else, if He were beseeched? Which might be done with the strength of the Silmarils, their Light released?

And Seraphina does break the Silmarils. That's important for her - giving up her Protagonist role, just as slaying Morgoth - embracing her Protagonist role - is important for Martha.

...but I don't think they give the Light back to Yavanna. No offense to the Trees, but they never illuminated most of Arda anyway, and the world is round now anyway - and making it flat again would fuck it up - and we have, like, electrical lights, now.

Hell, maybe Seraphina is ready to give up the Light... Her instinct is to hold it back, to follow her own novel plans with it, but, oh, to regain what was lost! And she has come around on...some of the Valar. Selectively. Yavanna's one of the okay ones.

- but Martha, half-dead from the battle, drops to her knees beside her and catches her hands before she can loose the Light upward unto the grasp of the Tree-Queen.

- "Together?" Martha says (Túrin Turambar, ever the greatest Men had to offer - bull-headed, loyal, brave, unafraid of death, loving and losing and loving again).

- Seraphina's trembling lips curve into a fierce grin (Fëanäro Curufinwë, ever the greatest Elves had to offer - brilliant in mind and spirit, devoted, ever seeking to preserve and glorify the beauty of the world, and eventually learning some wisdom about letting go).

- "Together," she agrees.

- together, they hold the Light that once shone in the Trees, the Lamps, and the Flame Eternal of Creation itself; and as they release it, reach for the Great Music of Ëa that is deep in both their blood - for they are the daughters of Elrohir, son of Elrond, son of Elwing daughter of Dior son of Lúthien Tinúviel, daughter of Melian the Maia; and indeed, even before that, they are both trueborn Children of Eru, are they not? - and eschew utterly the Choice of the Peredhel by leaving the world round but Un-Sundering the Sea, that the kindred might still live apart, if they wished it - the Elder in their land undying, the Younger in their realms of quick and sometimes joyful, often savage change - but that they might visit one another, at least, as they pleased.

(I mean, wasn't the false division of siblings the whole problem from the start?)

Random Additional Features of this Show/AU/Thing

All elf and ainu side characters, canonical and not, will be cast gender-blindly, and characters referred to with the understanding that elvish personal pronouns don't necessarily correlate with physical phenotype, but Ainur do generally try to match local standards of gender assignment. Dwarves will all use he/him (and have beards!) even when fairly clearly female.

I have no idea what Martha is doing for gender once she remembers being Túrin. With all the time Túrin spent with Elves, she probably rolls pretty smoothly with being she/her now, though it's weird. Her memories definitely integrate more easily than Fëanor/Seraphina's, though, as much because she's the same kind of being both times as because there's less of them.

Both protagonists are definitely bisexual. Martha has a range of love interests; it's a running joke (at first) that Seraphina has a total Thing for redheads. Any kind of redhead. But especially creative ones - any kind of art or invention.

The role of Gabriel WILL be played by Maglor, albeit with a different death (don't worry, he'll be back for the finale) and much more...gloominess. And angst. Okay, and maybe his first appearance, in s1 or 2, IS cursing them - not knowing who they are - into a musical episode. (A WOMAN HAS NEEDS; THE WOMAN IS ME.)

When Martha meets Fingolfin and/or any of Fëanor's other siblings, probably in s5 but maybe s4, they immediately Vibe completely. It's the shared experience of growing up with Fëanor for a sibling. Needless to say, Seraphina Hates This.

Their chief researcher friend is a dwarf, who is also on the young-ish side I think, and a woman (he/him).

There's gotta be a notable hobbit on the Team before the end, too...but overall, hobbits remain symbolically representative of the Civilians in this war story.

Durin is alive again somewhere. Durin usually reincarnates in time to guide his people through particularly difficult times - or, to try. Their dwarf friend - what the hell, I'll just call him Bobby - tries SO hard to be Cool about meeting him, and fails SO hard.

I generally prefer to judge and characterize the Valar and associated Maiar as fallible to the point of clumsiness or negligence but basically wise and thoroughly benevolent...but I AM willing to throw some of them under the characterization bus for ease of making conflict in this hypothetical CW show.

...I probably have many more random thoughts but it's 3am and I want to post this whole insane thing. Feel free to ask me questions if you have them! And/or petition both the Tolkien estate and a major TV network for the rights, money, and support to help me make the terrible but wonderful show we deserve!

[chiliadicorum]

1/8/9/16 choose violence ask

Man we are going with the punches with these aren't we lol but then the prompt did promise violence (keeping these to the tolkien fandom again)

1. the character everyone gets wrong

I'm still saying Thingol

8. common fandom opinion that everyone is wrong about

I'm going to probably tick a lot of people off and go with what seems to be the universal opinion that Everyone despised Feanor for not giving Yavanna the Silmarils. That opinion is wrong and I will not elaborate (here anyway)

9. worst part of canon

I'm giving 2 answers bc I honestly can't decide between them. I'm interpreting "worst" as in "this shouldn't be canon at all" and not "this is so tragic and awful"

The first is with the Dagor Dagorath, and I know nothing written about the End is necessarily concrete, but it's the part where Turin comes back to fight the Enemy and is a badass and all that. I hate hate HATE the suggestion so much it's one of the 3 "canons" I call bs on and refuse to acknowledge as canon. I know I really don't like Turin but there's more to it. whatever. Next!

The second one I refuse to acknowledge as canon takes place in the story of Beren and Luthien. (people who love their story, please don't read this. i'm not looking to start a fight) Granted, I've never cared for their story, but I really backed off on my dislike of it when I learned that it was more or less a reflection of Tolkien's love for his wife Edith. I tempered my dislike a lot after learning that, became much softer. That said, there's still one part that infuriated me when I first read it and still does to this day: the fact that Luthien and Beren came back receiving their "fate" as they did bc Luthien was a good crier. Really. That's what Namo gets moved by? (maybe that's a myth that started as a result. Sing to the Vala a woeful song and you'll be resurrected to get a chance with your sweetheart again!) Namo dealt with ALL of the Elves that died but no, bc luthien sang a gorgeous song conveying her grief SHE GETS WHAT SHE WANTS? What about all those other Elves who are just as (if not more) grieved over the loss of loved ones? Who were dealt far worse fates? Did they not cry enough, cry prettily, sing a song about it? Why her? what's so stinkin special about her brief relationship with Beren that she gets a second chance with him and NO ONE ELSE DOES?

I need to stop. The salt's real with this, if you couldn't tell. Reading that genuinely disgusted me. I despise that romantic love is held up so much higher than any other love, and I know that majorly contributes to my disgust in this canon, in which it's exemplified. I know it led down to the choice of Elrond and Elros blah blah blah it was important, yes. but I think that part of the story, the WAY that outcome happened is such bullshit.

16. you can't understand why so many people like this thing (characterization, trope, headcanon, etc)

this was kinda hard to answer. Picking just one, Caranthir/Haleth? I just i don't get it

choose violence ask game

[transsexualhamlet]

🍽️🐉👑 for the ask game wooo

hiiii :))))))

silm ask game

🍽️ You are having a dinner party and you can invite five (5) characters from the Silm. Who do you invite?

Ok well there's two choices here. Either I create a dinner party which can FUNCTION and won't result in SOMEONE'S DECAPITATED HEAD LANDING IN THE MASHED POTATOES orrrr I could be silly :3

so here's the two.

If I want a functional and enjoyable dinner party I invite Beleg (Turin is outside on a leash so lightning doesn't strike the fucking house), Finrod, Fingon, Luthien (Beren is outside making sure Turin doesn't get hit by lightning), and Tuor. I think it would be lovely and everyone would have a great time and they would all decide to go hang out outside in old man parade lawnchairs and start beatboxing.

If I want an INTERESTING dinner party I invite Feanor, Maedhros, Aredhel, Melkor, and Fingolfin. Bets on the first bowl of pasta thrown for a silmaril!

Technically adding Thingol might make this arrangement even more volitile but I don't want to invite Thingol no one wants to invite Thingol

🐉 A lot of figures in the Silm have weird Eldritch powers or possibly biology. Tell us about your headcanons for one.

Oh so this is my place to ramble about my Melkor design agenda. Trust me WAY too much thought has gone into this.

First, the caveat: All of the Valar I believe originally manifested forms that range from 9-12 feet tall, with reasonably adjusted proportions. They can obviously decide to be like the size of a skyscraper or normal human sized any time they want but I would consider that to be their normal baseline. (Mandos is the tallest, but Melkor and Manwe are similarly close behind.) (Maiar are usually 6-8 feet tall, and can generally blend in with elves unless they're on the taller end)

So as Melkor is the most powerful of the Valar his design just has to be the most imposing, and I feel many don't do it justice either for focusing too hard one one element (he basically invented all of them except for water) or making him look too much just like. If a guy was a vampire. (Not to mention the old tolkien bros who decided he just looks like if an orc was big.) Obviously the Valar are mostly modeled on elves considering they're really the elvish gods men were just left to fend for themfuckingselves, but they all have sort of elemental/supernatural aspects of their biology depending on their power.

In my opinion, Melkor's form in his full glory (pre- chronic injuries) is extremely fluid. His mass is 90% robes and hair . Just a truly obscene amount of hair and it all behaves like writhing smoke. His main domain is Darkness so it's just like. It's like you're talking to a sentient shadow. He's I think the Vala who most often changes his size like Melkor is the kinda guy who will just grow to the size of a building because he doesn't wanna walk all the way from point A to point B. Either that or he will just fucking evaporate and skirt around like an ominous fog. But I feel when he is solid his physical form behaves like stone, in the fact that it is grey and will glow like magma in cracks across him if he's in hot enough fire. When he was first on Arda as it was being created, he looked much different- well, first off, like a naked ken doll, and secondly entirely a bright glowing orange gold. They kicked him off and everything isn't lava anymore so he doesn't look like that anymore but that was basically what I'd call an "adolescent" form of him which no one but him and the Valar remember anymore.

But yes while he was in the void he got goth and now he looks like a big shadow with a lot of tentacley hair. And horns and talons and teeth. Which is incredibly important to note. I am normal

I already answered the Noldor king allegiance thing on Seb's ask, which u can check out a few posts below but it was Finrod :)

[celebregol]

@main-to-outofangband​ said: Disability in the Narn is super interesting (not always in a good way of course!) I think this is a really interesting point. I want to say something about Sador and Brandir being an interesting departure from how Tolkien usually portrays physical disability in that they weren’t disabled from war or torture but accident and genetic respectively. But I don’t know exactly how I’m articulating -outofangband

Yeah, I definitely agree with you in terms of the feeling (though in The Children of Hurin, Brandir is disabled because of a childhood accident, not from birth). From what I’ve observed, disability (for men--I don’t remember there being a case of a woman being disabled) is, as you’ve mentioned, usually from some kind of injury due to war or torture. For starters, we have Maedhros’s cut off hand, Beren’s cut off hand, and Gwindor’s arm maimed from mine work presumably (and a general “weakened” demeanor from torture and captivity). However, Sador’s disabled leg is from an accident with an axe (though he did serve as a soldier), and Brandir’s came from a broken leg from his childhood.

Also wow these thoughts got out of control so here’s a cut.

The other interesting thing other than the source of these disabilities is the intersection of these characters and physical ability: Maedhros pushes past this because he learns to swordfight with his other hand; Beren’s lost hand is a testament to his journey and story and since he doesn’t really fight after the events of Beren and Luthien, I assume it’s not much of a necessity for him; Gwindor in Nargothrond is hardly recognized and the book attributes his fall into “dishonour” due to his lack of physical ability after all the torture; Sador, in some ways, has the best of the lot, but when Hurin and Morwen talk about him getting the gift of Turin’s knife, Morwen is fairly harsh that it was his own fault that he was disabled (his “lack of skill”) and Sador himself wishes he had been wounded in battle instead of through an accident; Brandir perhaps gets the worst lot of them all, with the name-calling and the disregard of his advice and his authority, all because he cannot participate in battle (and also the fact that he does not wish to bring war to the community).

There are two ways to view this. First, through the “in-universe” explanation. Second, by the narrative being perpetuated here.

 In-universe, this unfortunately makes sense. This is a world that is at war, and when men are put as the standard fighters for many of these communities, it would look bad on any man that is unable to fulfill that duty. Which would be the case for disabled men. I will give The Children of Hurin credit in that it doesn’t blindly let all the ableism happen to the characters. AKA it’s acknowledged why they’re receiving this treatment and for Sador and Brandir, states that the names aren’t nice (though Sador doesn’t mind “Labadal”.)

Looking from the narrative perspective is when things get messier. Cause like I mentioned, The Children of Hurin doesn’t do as bad as a job as it could’ve. There’s definitely intention to, especially for Brandir, note that deriding him based on his disability is bad. It’s also interesting to consider that Brandir could be more intensely punished by the society in-verse because he doesn’t want to go to battle, and that’s expected of men.

However, then comes the whole “love based on pity” aspect of Sador, Gwindor, and Brandir. For Sador and Gwindor, pity is a large part of why Turin treats them more kindly (I haven’t finished my reread of Children of Hurin, so I can’t confirm it’s there word for word for Brandir). I don’t think an explanation is needed as to why that’s intensely bad framing.

There’s also the fact that defense of all the disabled characters here includes them wanting to fight. Sador had fought as a soldier in the past and wishes that if he had to be disabled, it be from war, because that’s more honorable; Gwindor evidently does try to regain his strength before stopping since it causes him too much pain; and Brandir, while said to be of a mind to not want war, is defended by his kinsman by saying his heart wants to participate, it’s just that his body cannot. This does make sense in-verse, considering how much war and fighting is going on in canon, but from a narrative perspective, it is a bit iffy. 

I don’t really have conclusive thoughts on this. The treatment of disabled characters in canon (and probably fanon too though I don’t interact with other content and people frequently enough to know about that) is an extremely mixed bag.

Too lazy to find the post again, but in a version of Children of Hurin, Gwindor has a maimed left arm. And it states, “For [Turin] loved Gwindor as his guide and healer, and was filled with pity for him” (165, The Children of Hurin). It’s really interesting because Gwindor is the “middle” companion met in terms of disabled characters. Sador, the first, was loved but or because of pity. He was listened to. Gwindor is loved and held pity for, but there are disagreements between him and Turin, to say the least. And Brandir is the one who is mocked and disregarded entirely. It’s interesting how the situations change and how Turin changes too.

[absynthe--minded]

If you don’t mind because I love to hear it, what editorial choices did Christopher Tolkien make that really frustrate you?

My top one would be Turin’s character assaination.

I do not mind being asked!! this is an incomplete list but I hope it gets the point across

Túrin’s character assassination is astonishing, you’re right, for me it’s specifically everything in Nargothrond as well as the minimizing of Saeros (and sometimes Daeron) harassing him for racist and xenophobic reasons. This is really well-known so I’m not going to spend a lot of time on it unless people want me to? it’s probably best encapsulated in another post lol.

WHERE ARE THE WOMEN, CHRISTOPHER, WHERE ARE THEY. Haleth’s all-woman bodyguards get cut out! Míriel being the inventor of sewing gets cut out! Indis and Nerdanel having a friendship gets cut out! Andreth gets cut out, with not even a mention of the Athrabeth! Morwen and Niënor lose all their character traits! Finduilas is a ghost of her former self! Idril’s character gets cut down to nothing!

Findis and Lalwen not existing. I’m actually going to give them their own bullet point because Lalwen goes to Beleriand with her brother Fingolfin. That’s an entire extra Finwëan princess to talk about!

cutting the Wanderings of Húrin from the Silmarillion was a Bad Choice because it robs Húrin of his status as like. almost a warning of divine punishment. With the Wanderings, and specifically his travels to Gondolin and Menegroth, you can make the argument that Doriath falling and Gondolin falling were in large part because they failed to look after innocents and refugees, and that’s a really neat angle

Gil-galad Son Of Fingon. Gil-galad’s parentage changed so many damn times. I am all for Gil-galad the adopted son of Findekáno and also kind of Maitimo? but Gil-galad the biological son of Fingon has caused so many fandom problems. Leaving his parentage ambiguous would have been the right choice, and Christopher himself agrees with me here.

Beren and Lúthien being directly involved with killing the dwarves who killed Thingol. Christopher also admits in HoME that having Guy Gavriel Kay help with ghostwriting that Silm chapter was a mistake, and that he probably could have succeeded in creating a coherent narrative from his father’s later work (specifically the draft where Celegorm and Curufin kill the dwarves, assuming they have the Silmaril, but Melian actually took it and went to Lúthien)

I’m still doing research on this so I can’t actually speak authoritatively on it yet but what inspired my original frustrated post was the fact that as far as I can tell, the bits in the Silm chapter “Of Maeglin” about Maeglin’s desire to marry Idril being seen as incestuous and twisted and disgusting? Entirely absent from the drafts. All I’ve found in HoME and TFOG so far indicates that J.R.R. Tolkien never wrote anything close to that - Maeglin wanted to marry her, sure, but in the Book of Lost Tales, their marriage is frowned upon because Turgon thought that his nephew was clout-chasing rather than genuinely in love with his daughter. And the other HoME volumes usually have some variation on “Maeglin wanted to marry her, and Turgon loved and trusted him, but she married Tuor instead”, if they mention him at all. All the stuff about how he loved without hope, and how she saw him as terrifyingly warped? I’m willing to say that there’s a very good chance he invented that. Maeglin’s characterization in JRRT’s writing is very different from how he is in the Silm.

Amrod surviving at Losgar. I feel like this is a pretty agreed-upon fandom thing? We all sort of just accept that he died. But it still annoys me that Chris decided not to follow that path.

Argon not existing at all. Argon’s death mirrors Amrod’s death - both Fëanor and Fingolfin have to lose a son before they can begin life in exile, and one dies in fire and the other dies in freezing cold. It also sets up an interesting relationship since Argon died defending his family and his people and Amrod died because of someone else’s selfish and misguided attempt to defend his family.

the removal of a lot of the more queercoded/queer-subtext moments. Túrin and Beleg kiss in front of the Gaurwaith in the Lay of the Children of Húrin, and in that version and the Book of Lost Tales version of the story, Túrin kisses Beleg after he dies. The green Elessar that Galadriel gives to Aragorn is mentioned to be a betrothal gift in Laws and Customs among the Eldar, and there’s one version of the story where that same green stone was given to Fingon by Maedhros.

downplaying the presence of Taliska in the narrative and stripping out a lot of Edainic cultural worldbuilding. Taliska, one of the Edainic languages (or an Edainic language with several distinct dialects) hasn’t had any publicly released information about grammar and construction. We never find out in the published Silm that the Atani - the mortal Men - call themselves the Seekers, the way the elves call themselves the Quendi. We don’t learn that nothlir is the Taliska word for “folk” or “people”, so nothlir Haletha means “folk of Haleth”. All the lengthy discussion of Edainic philosophy from the Athrabeth is gone, and Chris’s decimation of the Narn i Chin Húrin means we don’t know anything in the Silm chapter about life in Dor-lómin under Húrin and Morwen’s leadership.

I hope that answers your question? sorry, this turned out to be long.

[nikosheba]

The Mystery of the Vanishing Elf

First of all, this is not my meta; I’m posting this on behalf of Azh, who wrote it and wanted it on tumblr. (They did say I could take credit for bothering them to write it, and for helping kick around ideas, so I will :D)

Link to the meta on AO3

[all page numbers from the 2007 HarperCollins edition of The Children of Húrin, ISBN 978 0 00 724622 9]

Thanks to starlightwalking for beta-ing!

So I just finished reading the Children of Húrin—which, let’s be honest, I was mostly reading to get the expanded version of the Túrin and Beleg content.  So at first when I started reading the second half — after Beleg’s death — I figured the reason I was less drawn to the text was because, well, Beleg was dead and therefore was less present in the narrative.  After I’d finished the book and put it down, though, I realized it was a little more than that.  Beleg wasn’t just less present. He was completely absent. This is no exaggeration: between the last mention of Beleg’s name in Chapter IX (“The Death of Beleg”) and Túrin’s death, when Gurthang asks to forget the “blood of Beleg my master” there is a single mention of his name, and it’s only a passing description of Gurthang itself as “the Black Sword of Beleg” (pg. 237).

Túrin never says his name again.

What’s going on here?  This is, quite frankly, bizarre. The entire first half of the narrative pivots around the relationship between Túrin and Beleg.  Beleg is the one who finds Túrin when he’s just a child his mother is sending to Thingol in Doriath. Beleg is his friend when’s growing up on Doriath — one of two really mentioned, the other being Nellas — and when Túrin is grown and goes off to be with the marchwardens, “Beleg and Túrin were companions in every peril” (pg 86).  When Thingol and Mablung and everyone else are ready to assume the worst of Túrin, it’s Beleg who shows up with Nellas to tell them what really happened, and it’s notable that this means Beleg didn’t see what happened; he just implicitly trusted Túrin and was the only one to do so.  They care about each other a lot. There is a brief portion of time while Túrin is with the outlaws that they aren’t together (that’s a whole nother post in itself) but Beleg returns to Túrin on Amon Rudh, “in this way, Beleg came back to Túrin, yielding to his love against his wisdom.  Túrin was glad indeed, for he had often regretted his stubbornness; and now the desire of his heart was granted…it seemed to [the outlaws] there had been a tryst between Beleg and their caption.” (pg 139).  These boys are in love. It’s textual.  There’s only one other character Túrin is described as loving in a similar way, and it’s Níniel (Niënor), whom he marries.

In fact, it’s staggering that Níniel is the only other one (pg 218 “Turambar restrained himself no longer, but asked her in marriage”), because there is a very big elephant in the room, and it’s the person whom Níniel is occasionally compared to, Finduilas.  Finduilas is mentioned three times in the text after her death, including twice by Túrin himself in direct quotations:

- “Then Turambar who led the men started back and covered his eyes, and trembled; for it seemed that he saw the wraith of a slain maiden that lay on the grave of Finduilas.” (pg. 214, when Túrin first finds Níniel)

- "But even as he spoke, he wondered, and mused in his mind: 'Or can it be that one so evil and fell shuns the Crossings, even as the Orcs? Haudh-en-Elleth! Does Finduilas lie still between me and my doom?’” (pg. 229, when Túrin is preparing to fight Glaurung for the last time),

- “Therefore he arose and went to the Crossings of Teiglin, and as he passed by Haudh-en-Elleth he cried: 'Bitterly have I paid, O Finduilas! that ever I gave heed to the Dragon. Send me now counsel!’” (pg. 253, after he’s killed Brandir and is desperately trying to deny that Níniel was Niënor, his sister)

This is huge. And it’s huge, because Túrin is not in love with Finduilas. This, again, is explicit, and textual, "In truth Finduilas was torn in mind. For she honoured Gwindor and pitied him, and wished not to add one tear to his suffering; but against her will her love for Turin grew day by day, and she thought of Beren and Luthien. But Turin was not like Beren! He did not scorn her, and was glad in her company; yet she knew that he had no love of the kind she wished. His mind and heart were elsewhere, by rivers in springs long past.” (pg 166, ”Túrin in Nargothrond”). So.  Túrin never falls in love with Finduilas, and, in fact, the reason he doesn’t fall in love with her is that his “mind and heart are elsewhere”.  Hmmmm. I wonder where his heart is?

Okay, so then why is it that Túrin repeatedly refers to Finduilas but not to Beleg?  It’s really obvious based on the quotes I’ve given so far that he was in love with Beleg (and for god’s sake, the man doesn’t talk for a YEAR after Beleg’s death), that he was not in love with Finduilas, and that he was (or thought he was, at least) in love with Níniel, enough to ask her to marry him.  So where the hell is Beleg in his thoughts for all this time when he’s falling for Níniel and thinking back to Finduilas?

For the answer to this, we need to consider the dual nature of Níniel’s relationship to Túrin, and what its source is.

Yes, Túrin loves Níniel, as his wife, but we know he also loved his sister Niënor, as a sister, and part of the reason he kills himself is that he can’t handle that he’s driven his sister to her death via incest (albeit accidental incest).  It’s notable that Túrin loves Finduilas as a sister,

“Then Turin spoke freely to [Finduilas] concerning these things, though he did not name the land of his birth, nor any of his kindred; and on a time he said to her: 'I had a sister, Lalaith, or so I named her; and of her you put me in mind. But Lalaith was a child, a yellow flower in the green grass of spring; and had she lived she would now, maybe, have become dimmed with grief. But you are queenly, and as a golden tree; I would I had a sister so fair.’” (pg. 164, “Túrin in Nargothrond”.)

So these references to Finduilas make a narrative kind of sense — in addition to it mostly happening as Túrin is passing her grave, it’s a textual reminder of a hidden truth: Níniel is not just Túrin’s lover, but also his sister.  He even finds her upon the grave of someone he loved as a sister.  But there’s another truth hidden in the text as well, and it’s related to Níniel’s nature as Túrin’s lover.  Because let’s be real, if he found her on the grave of someone he loved very firmly in a non-romantic way, why does he become romantically interested in her?  She’s his sister—obviously he doesn’t know that, but the narrative is saying it very, very clearly.  Well…there’s a confounding factor.

Here’s how Túrin finds Níniel (pg. 214): “Now it chanced that some of the woodmen of Brethil came by in that hour from a foray against Orcs, hastening over the Crossings of Teiglin to a shelter that was near; and there came a great flash of lightning, so that the Haudh-en-Elleth was lit as with a white flame.”

And here is how Túrin discovers that he has killed Beleg (pg. 155): “But as he stood, finding himself free, and ready to sell his life dearly against imagined foes, there came a great flash of lightning above them, and in its light he looked down on Beleg's face.”

The narrative does draw a parallel between Níniel and Beleg, an extremely strong (if subtle) one.  It uses literally the same phrase to set up the scene: “there came a great flash of lightning”.  So there’s a pretty clear answer as to why Túrin might associate Níniel with romantic love—he doesn’t just find her on his as-it-were sister’s grave, he finds her in a way that hearkens strongly back to the last time he ever saw his lover’s face.

So why doesn’t he think of Beleg now?

Why is the thought of his lover—whose loss cut him so deeply he didn’t speak for a year—so far out of his mind at this moment that his name isn’t even mentioned, even when narratively there’s no way he shouldn’t think of him?

Okay, I’ve drawn this out enough, so let’s cut to the chase: Glaurung. Glaurung, who is responsible for the first hidden truth that I mentioned, the more textually explicit one, that Níniel is Niënor, Túrin’s sister.  He bespells Niënor upon Amon Ethir, “Then he drew her eyes into his, and her will swooned. And it seemed to her that the sun sickened and all became dim about her; and slowly a great darkness drew down on her and in that darkness there was emptiness; she knew nothing, and heard nothing, and remembered nothing,” (pg 209, “The Journey of Morwen and Niënor”) causing her to lose her memories and with her memories her name and therefore any way for Túrin to know who she is.  Glaurung earlier bespells Túrin as well, “Without fear Turin looked in those eyes as he raised up his sword; and straightway he fell under the dreadful spell of the dragon, and was as one turned to stone.” (pg. 178, “the Fall of Nargothrond”)  The first, obvious result of Glaurung’s spell (and the only explicit one) is that he leaves Finduilas and rushes off to try and find Morwen and Niënor.  Now, we’re meant to believe that this is all that the spell does, since in “The Return of Túrin to Dor-Lómin”, pg. 166, the text notes, “And suddenly a black wrath shook him; for his eyes were opened, and the spell of Glaurung loosed its last threads, and he knew the lies with which he had been cheated.”

But I don’t think this makes sense.  I think Tolkien is being poetical here and the “last threads” he’s talking about are specifically the lies about Finduilas.  A number of Túrin’s conversations with Níniel point towards the fact that he’s forgotten something really important and that in that regard the dragon’s spell is still intact.  For example, when Túrin tells Níniel what to call him (pgs 217-218, “Niënor in Brethil”):

“Then she paused as if listening for some echo; but she said: 'And what does that say, or is it just the name for you alone?'

“’It means,' said he, 'Master of the Dark Shadow. For I also, Niniel, had my darkness, in which dear things were lost; but now I have overcome it, I deem.’”

“My darkness” is eerily similar to the repeated motif of Níniel’s darkness, which explicitly refers to the spell cast on her by Glaurung.  

“Behind her lay only an empty darkness” (pg 213, “Niënor in Brethil”); “it seem to her that the darkness that lay behind her was overtaking her again” (pg 214, “Niënor in Brethil”); “it seemed to her that she had found at last something that she had sought in the darkness” (pg. 215, “Niënor in Brethil”); and the two most relevant quotations, “And at that name she looked up, and she shook her head, but said: 'Níniel.' And that was the first word that she spoke after her darkness, and it was her name among the woodmen ever after” (pg 216, ”Niënor in Brethil”); and “when at length she had learned enough to speak with her friends she would say: 'What is the name of this thing? For in my darkness I lost it.’” (pg. 217, “Niënor in Brethil”)

So here it is: Túrin has lost “dear things” in “his darkness” (Glaurung’s spell) and he thinks that Níniel is what he has lost, but she isn’t—or she isn’t the only thing that’s missing. Glaurung has ripped out of Túrin’s mind the memory of the only person he’s ever had romantic feelings for—Beleg—and because he’s confused and trying to find something to fill that gap, Níniel gets cast in a dual role—not just sister (with her ties to Finduilas) but also lover (with her subtler ties to poor, missing Beleg).  

This theory also has significant implications for Túrin’s death, since that’s the only time that Beleg is mentioned again, apart from a tangential sidenote.  When Mablung finally confirms to Túrin what he’s already beginning to fear is the truth, that Níniel was his sister Niënor, he runs up to the Cabed-en-Aras, from which Níniel has thrown herself, and he asks his sword to kill him. His sword is Gurthang, which was Anglachel, made by Eöl, the sword that Thingol gave to Beleg and that Túrin used to accidentally kill him, and the response is somewhat unexpected, since up till now we haven’t had any indication that it’s a talking sword,

“‘And from the blade rang a cold voice in answer: 'Yes, I will drink your blood, that I may forget the blood of Beleg my master…I will slay you swiftly.’” (pg. 256, “The Death of Túrin”)

Interestingly, this is after the sword has been reforged, and there’s no particular reason it should refer to Beleg as its master — after all, Túrin has been wielding it for years, and it was made by someone else entirely.  So then, why?  And why does it ask to forget his blood in particular?

Because Túrin has remembered, finally.  Whether the sword is picking up on the mood, whether it’s a narrative device, or whether it isn’t even really talking and it’s just Túrin’s mind playing tricks on him in his last extremis, I don’t know—though I favor the latter interpretation, particularly because Túrin himself is referred to as “the Black Sword” on numerous occasions.  But the important point here is Túrin has remembered, because Glaurung is dead, and his memory spells die with him, “Then Nienor sat as one stunned, but Glaurung died; and with his death the veil of his malice fell from her, and all her memory grew clearer before her, from day unto day, neither did she forget any of those things that had befallen her since she lay on Haudh-en-Elleth.” (pg. 243, “The Death of Glaurung”)

So Túrin knows by now exactly what he’s done—not only inadvertently marrying his sister but betraying the one great romantic love of his life.  The one he has probably just remembered accidentally killing in great detail.  It’s probably quite present in his mind when, rather than throw himself over the waterfall as Níniel did, he flings himself onto the very same sword that killed the only person he was ever in love with, whose name he has finally, finally been able to bring to mind…

In sum, Glaurung erases Beleg’s memory so thoroughly from Túrin’s mind that only tiny, hidden glimpses remain, even in the text.  This is the solution to the mystery of the vanishing Elf; it explains why Beleg vanishes right up until the very end, and it ties together the sense I had when I was reading the second half of something missing, something hidden, something incomplete.  It is, I imagine, the same way Túrin must have felt after he awoke—as he thought, completely—from the spell that Glaurung laid upon him the first time they fought.

[A/N: I also wrote a fic based on this premise: https://archiveofourown.org/works/28980519 ]

[hildorien]

warrioreowynofrohan replied to your post “warrioreowynofrohan replied to your post “My biggest edain headcanon...”

If you haven’t read Philosopher at Large’s Leithian Script, I think you might like it. Act 2 has lots of verbal sparring between Beren and Celegorm & Curufin (Beren wins, unsurprisingly) and is a lot of fun. While most of the cast are elves, Beren’s a very well-done character and the tenor of the story is very pro-Edain.

Honestly, I really need to sit down and read Beren and Luthien again, because I do find as I get more into the like histories; the two of them are very interesting and the fact that in some drafts Luthien learns the Beorian dialect of Taliksa (or whatever tolkien is deciding to call it today) and she just, is down for mortality and that includes learning about the culture she is getting into and coming from an elf princess who very much never been outside in probably the most isolationist (xenophobic) elf kingdoms in all of middle earth, that really says something. 

There really does seem to be a respect there, a love if I can be cheesy, between luthien and beren that is better served when Beren (and what baggage he brings to the table which is a LOT, the whole everyone I love is dead aspect should be brought up more with beren and how he’s willing to put himself in danger for luthien and not wanting her to get hurt, etc) gets to be an edain, and mortal, where being mortal, being average and human? Is Luthien’s happy ending, something she LIKES and WANTS TO LEARN MORE ABOUT. 

It’s humbling, it’s sweet. The only other canon (though I argue that Beleg and Turin is also fucking canon, but I freaking digress) elf-mannish couple that gets me this FEELINGS is Andreth and Aegnor. 

ALSO CELEGORM AND CURUFIN WERE NEVER GONNA WIN AN ARGUMENT AGAINST ANDRETH SAELIND’S GRAND-NEPHEW, HE KNOWS MORE THAN YOU JIDSBCUIEHUIEHIUBI.  

[unknown-de-mordor-blog]

The Dark-Lord Family, A.K.A. My Top 5 Favourite Villains

Melkor/Morgoth + Mairon/Sauron -- The Lord of the Rings+The Silmarillion

I know that’s two, but don’t make me separate them. I will not separate them.

They’re actually going to be the odd one out in this list because the rest are from anime/manga, but that’s because back when I was in middle school, I found villains from fantasy stories boring af and the notion that something external is the source of evil is just lazy. (Also because my obnoxious middle-school brain just went ‘Argh, blaming other people for your problems is soooo immature’ and shut down.) Arguably, I wasn’t well-versed in those kinds of literature, and stuff I did choose to read from that side of the globe don’t have villains in them.

And that’s kind of why these two makes the list -- they are more properly constructed than other dark lords that I know of. Yes, they serve as the personification of evil, but Tolkien also treated them as characters. They have reasons for becoming what they’ve become. And even though they are depicted as the epicentre of evil and destruction, evil isn’t actually their domain. Tolkien was pretty clear about that in his writing because he also examined and, to some degree, deconstructed evil in his universe. The Feanorians are chief examples of that. Turin is not really off the hook with some of his bad life choices (and I don’t mean marrying his sister; when intent in factored in, that’s actually not the worst Turin had done). And don’t get me started on how much I loathe Denethor.

In a way, I found Tolkien depiction of dark lords rather subversive. Having a dark lord really plays into a primal psychology that wants to blame the ill of the world to someone: capitalism, communism, Hitler, Stalin, Baby boomers, Millenials, the Jews, the Muslims, the conservative Christians, the patriarchy, cis white (American) males. But in the deconstruction of the dark lords, he was also saying, really, that evil without comes from the evil within and it’s complicated because evil is a part of nature. It doesn’t come from a box, an apple, a fallen angel, or a rebellious servant of God. And to win against the evil without, you have to fight the evil within. And that’s why Frodo is still one of my greatest heroes. He really did take the hardest job in the book, and I’m not talking about walking into Mordor.

Hao Asakura-- Shaman King (manga, not the anime)

Also known to me and my best friend as “Melkor and Sauron’s lovechild” because his character has things that reminded us of Melkor and Sauron. Hao is a personification of evil and destruction. His main power is Fire, and I’m capitalizing here because the spirit that is his main source of power is called the Spirit of Fire and it’s huge, like balrog huge.

But unlike with Melkor and Sauron, we got to hear directly from Hao why he thinks the destruction of humanity is a good idea. As it turns out, Hao actually has a shit-list on humanity collected over the last thousand years, and we look horrendous on it. It’s hard to argue that we are not cancerous, narrow-minded, selfish bunch of crap who frequently gives into the tendency to destroy each other and is going to destroy this one planet we have and take every other species who had not done any shit to deserve this with it. So, yes, Hao was saying, ‘I’m the necessary evil because you all are shitheads’. And he’s right. In some ways, he’s even more right now than he was back in the 90s.

But you might say that’s one particular lens of interpreting our complex and problematic (as in difficult) legacy. We’re not all bad! Well, true, but us doing good does not in anyway erase the fact that we’ve done some really shitty things as well. That’s why as extreme as Hao’s position might be, he’s about as logically wrong as saying we should keep humanity because we have done some nice things.

And the greatest thing in Shaman King to me is that Hiroyuki never went down that route of that oversimplified counter-argument. He actually had Yoh -- our hero, the personification of good, and Hao’s twin brother -- admitted to not liking human either. In fact, Yoh was the one most sympathetic to Hao’s position even though he disagreed that destroying humanity would solve any of Hao’s problems.

And Hao’s biggest problem was that he was isolated, dehumanized, and betrayed over such a long time that he lost the ability to trust and to love. And as time progressed and Hao becomes more powerful, you can even argue that he lost the ability to love himself. When Hao became God, he isolated himself from other souls, pushing even his most loyal followers away by displays worthy of an evil dark lord when they in fact contradicts how he had always treated them-- with kindness and understanding that they never received from others.

But that tactic wasn’t going to work on Yoh’s watch. The guy basically threw the biggest spirit party ever, invited everyone who ever crossed path with Hao, and gave the man the biggest metaphorical group hug. There were some stern talks about his past behaviour and ambitions, but all in all, everyone acknowledged that he was a person -- complicated and damaged but still a person worthy of friendship and love and loyalty. And after all the embarrassing reunion, including being enthusiastically called ‘nii-chan’ (that’s a cute way of calling someone ‘big-bro’) by his supposed mortal enemy and twin brother, Hao just kind of went ‘Fine! I warned you Earth sucks with humans on it, but if you want to make it better so much then go do it. I’ll watch you try!’

So, yep, that’s how you literally prevent apocalypse with the power of love. I wish more heroes adopt this strategy.

^Hao as God Almighty from the sequel to Shaman King. Art by Takei Hiroyuki. This is to say that Hao is also a crazy cat-person.

Gabriel -- Daemon Hunters

Speaking of gods, here’s another god you should not mess with. I have to admit that this guy scares the living daylight out of me. And it’s not because he’s evil or cruel or twisted. Gabriel is... nothing. Really nothing. He was born out of an experiment to create a living god. And when knowledge and power are chosen over compassion, this is the destructive result.

Gabriel was born more powerful than anything under the sky. And he knew everything -- past, present, and future. He looked into a person’s eyes and he knew the life that was and the life that still to come. Except for one thing, one moment at the end of the world when he would meet a creature more powerful than himself, a creature that knew the answer to one last question Gabriel did  not: why was he alive?

And for that answer, Gabriel would do anything -- kill people, play with their minds, break their souls, wipe out an entire city or country. Literally, nothing was off-limits. And he was like a force of nature. You couldn’t negotiate or bargain with this guy because he didn’t care about puny little humans with puny little minds. He’s looking for an answer, and nothing was going to stop him.

So yeah, evil is not scary at all in my book. The insatiable thirst that knows no love? Yeah, totally.

^The entire internet seriously just have this one picture of Gabriel. The sorrow of being in a non-existing fandom, I supposed.

Sebastian Michaelis -- Black Butler/Kuroshitsuji

Technically speaking, Sebastian is not a villain. He’s one of the two protagonists of Kuroshitsuji -- the other being my beloved anti-hero Ciel Phantomhive -- but considering that Sebastian (i) is a demon (ii) is after Ciel’s soul (iii) loves leading my dear boy astray, I count him as one.

Being treated in the narrative as one of the main characters is probably why he’s the most relatable on the list. Even though he’s a demon, he’s not treated as a personification of evil, just a corrupted creature serving as a vehicle for his master’s ambitions who likes to have fun along the way. That is not to say he’s not bad. He totally is. He would tear people to pieces as he kills them. He likes mind games and has no qualm manipulating people to get what he wants.

But the thing is, humans do that, too. Sebastian’s corruptness is not exceptional in anyway. We like to think we know what is right and wrong, but do we? We think we have made the best choices out of the goodness of our hearts, but were they, really? The matter of fact is a lot of our decisions are lazy, selfish, or just meanness dressed up as something else. There are moments when Sebastian demon’s ‘aesthetics’ seems more morally sound than the morality of a human being. And that’s kind of the theme of the series -- that the evil within clad in self-righteousness, desperation, and elitism can be more reprehensible than the evil without.

^Art by Yana Toboso. I feel compelled to mention that Sebastian is also a crazy cat-person.

Johan Liebert -- Monster

To me, there is rarely a personification of evil more terrifying and a deconstruction more nuanced and heartbreaking than that in Naoki Urasawa’s Monster.

And it’s not even his best work! It was his first work in psychological thriller, so you can kind of see him working out how to do thriller and play with with characters’ psychology on the go. And the psyche that governs the entire story is that of Johan Liebert -- arch-villain, evil-incarnate, the new Napoleon of Crime. He rarely made any appearance in the story, but every time he did, I literally wanted to hyperventilate.

But really, setting Johan up that way was kind of a red-herring on Urasawa’s part, a good red-herring, too, because he was giving what Tolkien gave us in Middle-earth -- a personification of evil, someone we can point the finger to and blame for all the wrong in the world. And Johan played the dark lord to the tee.

Except then Urasawa slowly pulled the rug from under us. Little by little, as Dr. Kenzou Tenma, our personification of good, uncovered Johan’s past, we come to realize that there were other evil that made Johan. But then when Dr. Tenma approached those people, the big-bads dwindled into an old deluded man, a woman hunted, a mad scientist trying to repent his sin -- people after people who had made a decision based on their beliefs and made the wrong one.

I think what made Monster so powerful is how it uses Johan as the focal point to deconstruct evil down to its origin, to the fact that there is no other evil in the world than us. The evil without really is just a manifest of the evil within, and that little moments where we might have let it win could snowball into something monumentally terrifying.

But Urasawa’s view of human nature is not all doom and gloom. Yes, we’re at times wretched and wicked, but we can be better when we choose to be. And that idea is actually what Dr. Tenma represents. Tenma didn’t start out being good. He lied about his history. He was motivated by reputation and ego rather than the well-being of his patients. He had to be confronted by the consequence of his decisions and have his entire world crashing down to the ground to find the path to being good. And after that, it still wasn’t easy, as trying to be good in a world full of shitty people often is.

But things had changed for him, and I think that’s why he thought Johan could, too. That’s why he could never shoot even though Johan let him.

So, is Johan evil? My answer is yes. After all, he had done grave wrongs to people knowingly. But could he turn from the path of evil? Well, I think the more appropriate question is, have you?

^Original design by Naoki Urasawa. I was once terrified of blue eyes because of this man.

[dawnfelagund]

Fitzgerald, Austen, and Shelley for the bookish asks! :)

Fitzgerald: Reading with a cup of tea or mug of hot chocolate?

Definitely tea! Preferably Barry’s Irish tea or lemon herbal. I like hot chocolate but it’s not thirst-quenching at all. I usually have to drink a glass of water (or tea!) after drinking it.

If not tea, then coffee.

Austen: 3 favourite characters?

Wow, that’s a hard one, partly because I think the best characters aren’t people I’d exactly want to call favorites. This would be much easier if it was “best written” characters! :D

Definitely Maedhros. That guy has sustained me imaginatively for more than twelve years now, and though barely sketched in The Silmarillion, hints at an amazing complexity, a nobility that doesn’t feel forced (and is in fact, obviously, quite flawed!)

I adore Kelsea in the recently completed Queen of the Tearling trilogy by Erika Johansen. I told Mr. Felagund that that series was escapist fantasy for idealists; I read it and wanted to be Kelsea: not to have to make the tough choices she does but to believe myself strong enough to do so. Johansen strikes a believable balance between making Kelsea extraordinary but imperfect. She struggles, authentically, with decisions that have no perfect outcome but also the growing pains of a young woman thrown into sovereignty in her teens.

I also love Vanyel in the Last Herald Mage trilogy by Mercedes Lackey (my number-one guilty pleasure fantasy series!) He’s such a brat at the beginning but grows and suffers and endures, and both his suffering and his heroism feel realistic.

Shelley: 3 characters you dislike?

This is much easier because, like I said, many of the best characters are actively unlikeable! I detest Babbitt from the eponymous Sinclair Lewis novel because he exemplifies a certain breed of entitled, bloviating, undeserving male who frequently ends up in positions of authority and power. He’s extremely well drawn–and what a shame, still so recognizable 95 years later–but I feel angry and grossed out just reading about him. Elmer Gantry–same author, eponymous book also–is the same.

This may make people want to throw rotten fruit at me, but I really can’t stand Turin in The Silmarillion. I feel like he’s whiny and selfish, and as much as Tolkien succeeds in making many of the less heroic characters in The Silmarillion relatable, Turin never has been for me.

[elvellonath]

In Defense of Earendil - Meta

Okay, so I’ve written this rant in response to some things I’ve seen concerning Earendil, and considering I play an Earendil I can’t exactly leave it unspoken. It’s long as fuck, so please know that before you click the read more, but as a long story short I will say this:

Earendil is a complex character who should not be so simply looked at. He’s not a villain, and the fact that everyone seems to have little compassion or consideration for him as a character should be thought over twice. Now to each his own, but do not expect me to sway on this without a well thought out explanation from any haters. Don’t bother if you haven’t looked at Earendil from his point of view.

Before we begin, I would like to say a few words concerning Earendil. I know the fandom is split between two factions: Those who believe that the Feanorians were wrong to adopt Elrond & Elros, and those who believe that Earendil was a shit father to begin with and have no respect for him whatsoever. Both of these, I might add, are completely and totally biased, and are far too one dimensional for me to give any credence to. While I will not disagree that Earendil could have done better, I would like to point out a few things in both arguments that are amiss.

Namely:

Think out side the box

Now, let's start with facts and counterpoint that second statement of Earendil being a shit father.

Earendil's Heritage.

This is a factor that gets so often overlooked when those who have this argument look at Earendil. For starters, he is of the house of Finwe. The house of Finwe was --clearly-- a house of those who were incredibly familycentric. More specifically, the house of Fingolfin is from where he hails, and just by the interactions of all the rest of the family with each other it's clear that no matter what family always came first. Always. That being said, Earendil was raised by Idril, daughter of Turgon, and frankly I doubt Idril would have raised her son to be the prick so many seem to think. Here's further proof of the family itself: Fingon.

Fingon, who when everyone was angry with the Feanorians and wanted nothing to do with them went into enemy territory to save his cousin. Fingon, who was so greatly loved, who had his own faults, but it's clear he was admired etc. You see where I'm going with this? Shall I list all of Earendil's family who by proxy would have affected him with the stories of them, who show the very grain of how Finweians think of family? No? I'll go on then.

Secondly, the house of the Edain-- fucks sake, just look at every single person from these houses from Turin to Haleth --there is a line of loyalty and family honor which is so deeply ingrained in these houses there's no way that Tuor didn't put that same family value in his son in any way, shape, or form.

Proof of this in Earendil himself? Mom and dad sail off, and Earendil builds a ship to find them because it's his parents, and for whatever reason he's trying to get them back. Now this has a drawback: frankly he married a woman who was nowhere near his equal in family ties, probably because her own family was slaughtered when she was a small child. Now Earendil had his faults, I'll give anyone that, spending so much time away from growing children is something that can harm them. HOWEVER, let us consider things from his point of view.

He marries Elwing, he has a wife, his parents sail to the west and NO FURTHER WORD IS HEARD FROM THEM. His family and therefore his upbringing would demand that he has answers, that he makes sure everything is alright, etc, etc. Now, he has kids, kids who he worries about and doesn't abandon, he leaves them with his wife. I repeat: he didn't abandon them. It would be against his very grain. His very upbringing. He left his children with someone he loved and trusted, with someone who he believed would do what was best, and I'm sure he visited in between months at sea.

My own father was in the navy when I was very young, and he was gone for almost a year at a time, I won't lie and say it didn't affect me --it did-- but that didn't mean he was a bad father. There's plenty of people who can say the same I'm sure, who were raised with men who weren't around much. Men who didn't have a choice. But that doesn't mean the father's don't love them, and in turn just because Earendil would sail away and come back, and sail away doesn't mean he didn't love Elrond and Elros. Furthermore, he left Elwing with them, which for all intents and purposes is something that every single military man does with his family. And yet no one blames them.

Here's another aspect that should go into his character and should be understood. Think for a few seconds one specific character that is mentioned by name that Earendil looked up to and loved.

Ecthelion.

Now we don't know much about Ecthelion, but in general it's clear what sort of elf he was. He was the type of elf that was looked up to greatly, the type of elf who was willing to lay down his life for the lives of everyone around him. The type of elf who stood in front of a balrog and died so that others could live.

But moving on.

The Opinion of Others on Earendil

Now this is something which should be noted for all those who condemn him: when Tolkien created Earendil as the first part of his  legendarium. Earendil's mythology was his first written part, and thereby sets the tone for the entire mythology. Entire. Mythology.

Earendil is clearly in high regard in Middle Earth, from Galadriel to the Valar themselves. The Phial of Galadriel is made from the light of the Silmaril which Earendil carried through the sky, he was known as Gil-Estel ...the star of hope. Now tell me this: if Earendil was the ass that he is seen as, just why would anyone give him such high honors? Furthermore, why would Tolkien who clearly knows what a son of a bitch is like (i.e., look at Eol please), make Earendil such a centerpiece of his writing if he was as horrible as people seem to think him?

'The light of Earendil, our most beloved star'

Either Galadriel is supporting a man who was atrocious to his own kids, calls him 'our most beloved star' in complete lies, or he wasn't atrocious to his own kids. Just Saying.

Earendils fate

This is something that boggles my mind so seriously. If Earendil gains anything, it is my compassion. Now to do this, I'm going to need you to open your mind just a fraction and look at things from Earendils perspective. Now, some might say this is conjecture, but I'm looking at the personality of Earendil as given in canon, plus some logic.

Earendil's parents leave, they sail west, and no word of them ever returns. So, he sets out to find them, which is completely reasonable given the ban on the Noldori to return to Aman. He builds a ship, and he sails off, scouring the sea as best as he can in hopes that either he'll find his parents, or if he doesn't at least he'll find some word of what might have happened to them. He leaves his wife and children for months at a time, though comes back because he loves and misses them (because he would, people), though he's driven to have this one last loose thread closed.

He sails off one time, and he is completely cut off from the mainland, and the next thing he knows a swan lands on his ship, and the next morning this swan turns into his wife. Naturally he asks what happened, and naturally she answers him with her side of the tale of what happened in Sirion. Given his drive over his parents disappearance, I doubt he'd take a "oh I left when the feanorians (who were provoked by Elwing, don't forget) were going to kill me"

"What happened to our sons?" he probably asks, as would be normal. And here is where it's questionable just what the answer was, but based on his reaction I think we can probably guess that somehow he got an idea that their sons were no longer alive for him to rescue. Why do I say this? because he immediately sets sail for Valinor, not caring for the ban, and intending to plead to the Valar to intervene because this is getting out of hand.

Is this the reaction of a father who doesn't give a shit about his kids and abandoned them? No. this is the reaction of a father who is so grieved by what he probably believes is the death of his kids, that it gives him a mission, it gives him a purpose beyond his parents, and whether or not he'll succeed he's gonna die trying. He sails west, and he begs the Valar to intervene, and they do.

Things happen, yadda yadda, war of wrath etc. The Valar then give Earendil a choice: immortality or mortality. Earendil wanted mortality, which would mean he'd be sent back to middle earth. Elwing wished for immortality, and due to his love of her he chose immortality himself.

And here is where I wonder how the fuck nobody has any compassion for him.

What happened to Earendil? Was his ending a happily ever after? Hell. No. Earendil was given a fate that in many ways sucks. Think about it. His immortal life is spent alone, sailing the sky with the silmaril which he's given custody over, he gets to look down on everything that happens, and who knows how he responded when when he first found out his kids were alive. He gives hope to others, but has anyone ever considered what it must be like for him? He sails the skies, a hero to so many-- but to quote The Song of Achilles 'give me one hero who was happy'.

Then consider thousands of years pass, his one son is forever parted from him because he chose mortality, his other son eventually sails to Valinor, imagine all that time that they had lost that now must be caught up on. Like he should incite your compassion, people, not your contempt.

The Feanorians

Something that frustrates me is the idea that to support Earendil must mean that one cannot like Maedhros and Maglor for what they did. This is the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard. I adore what the Feanorians did for Elrond and Elros, the adopting of the twins when I read it actually helped me to fall in love with them so much. It was beautiful how admidst this blood and terror there was a moment that they took, and they did some good. The fact that Elrond is the way he is in later installments because of them is beautiful.

In addition, the Feanorians had the same family oriented thinking that Earendil might have had people. Just something of note.

But to villainize either the Feanorians OR Earendil as if to say one had to be wrong because the other was right is absolutely absurd. Tolkien didn't do it, so why does anyone else? There's a complex situation here, people, there's a situation that should be thought of from all sides. Earendil is no villain. The Feanorians are not villains. They all played their parts, and when their part was over it was passed to someone else.

Conclusion:

Do not look at Earendil so simple minded, or we will have issues. He is as complex of a character as any other character in Silmarillion, and should be treated with the same respect anyone might give Sauron, or Finwe, or Feanor, or Fingolfin etc. etc. etc. 

Therefore, think. Just think. Take yourself out of your shoes and put yourself in his for a moment. If you can't do that, then I'm sorry, I don't know what else to say to you. Hate is an immature response, and born from not taking in enough facts. That’s all I have to say on it.

[hildorien]

I am in the minority but I’d love to know more about the pre-noldor elvish edain culture, history, and just life. 

I wanna know more about men in the context of men, I wanna see history through human eyes without the elvish perspective. 

I wanna know the full experiences of all humans in middle earth not the ones the elves interacted with. And if you have to have elves, I wanna hear about what humans thought of elves that isnt ‘oh they are so perfect and amazing and beautiful uwu’, because that’s kind of boring and we can all agree first age elves? on the whole? pretty shitty. (I love em but they have one brain cell to share among them and fuck up on the regular). 

I wanna see Humans who were born into a dumpster fire that is the world of arda, these are a people who didn’t get Orome leading them to heaven on earth, they got Morgoth. These are a people who lived in Morgoth’s land for centuries who probably experienced horror and oppression from basically their species infancy. Unlike the elves of valinor, or even the Sindarin protected by Melian, horror and despair would have not been their abnormal, it would be their everyday.  But they aren’t broken, they survive. They make families, connections, lives in this wasteland. They adapt and change, because I think in some ways that is the race of men’s true advantage over elves. That we don’t have a gap on our ‘greatness’ persay, humanity’s ambitions get’s mutated into greed a lot (I mean numenor is a dumspter fire for a reason) but I think that human ambition is a strength because it means we don’t accept our circumstances. The Edian sure didn’t. 

The edain, the Boerians, the people of haleth, and the hadorians, all marched themselves out of morgoth’s land hoping for something better, with NO GUARANTEE they find anything better.  But they still did it. And while we are here, let’s talk about how the race of men has not guarantee of anything, like elves (and dwarves) kind of know where they end up. They go to Mandos and get reborn, they go to aule, respectively. Men...don’t have that. Men really didn’t get anything (but Morgoth and suffering). They leave this world forever, thats what they know. Thats what they are told. 

But no one knows what the means. (Personally, I think its like a good place situation kind of. Eru is just michael and turin is janet) 

But anyway back to the POINT, (if there ever was one) the edain end up finding beleriand but beleriand isn’t the paradise they wanted. But hey, its not morgoth so let’s celebrate said the beorians before promptly getting found by finrod. And look elves did a lot of good for humans, but I also think there is this really bad dynamic of elves holding all the power and men just being in it for the ride. 

Ive made the joke that the elves of the first age are kind of like the edian’s sugar daddies but it’s kind of true. They give them land and like ‘wisdom’ (whatever the fuck that means) and in return men give them their ever increasing numbers. The Silm is a very elven story we don’t really get a lot of human, but when we do I think it’s pretty interesting. Because the relationship between Elves and Men is really uneven in the first age...and all ages even though in later ages forces of men like numenor at their height could I think easily sweep the floor with the elves of the second age combined. I think culturally Elves give a lot more, like men end up picking up their language, though im one hundred percent sure human languages didn’t die out and never do, humans must have shit talked elves a LOT in taliska (oh yes, that is the name of at least the language spoken by the hadorians and beorians, the people of haleth spoke a different dialect) and I think a lot of humans give more in resources (aka men, power, infantry). I mean personally if I was having at a guess I don’t think (as the latecomers) men got very many places to actually farm and have good land and relied on elvish goods to survive. I think this unevenness kind of spurred this idea that ‘elvishness = superior’, so to make this full circle I think a lot of pre edain culture was lost to make place for diet pepsi version of elf culture that we see human cultures like numenor and gondor have, because that’s better than their orn because elves are SPECIal BETTER AND DON’T DIE LIKE US BROKEN AND FALLEN PEOPLE.  ((screams)) 

Okay let’s talk about the death thing. Human and Mortal and Men all mean the same thing, humans die is not a statement that should be up for debate. But the humans of edain, at least from what we see of Andreth is that this was not how it always was. Humans were once immortal like the elves until they were bad and listened to morgoth and then they became mortal and all sick and ew. 

yeahhhh, I don’t think thats true. I think in-universe its a great myth. I love finrod ah andreth for this reason (also andreth is tolkien’s best female character he ever created and the fact that she’s not in the published silm is why we are in the bad timeline) , but I think humans...always were mortal. 

And thats okay. 

We talked about human ambition above, I think that is fueled by the fact that we all die. We have a timer, so we have to do things now, and that’s not a bad mindset to have. I think it gets humjans into trouble but also, imagine your a human in beleriand, you have children, a family, they might have children someday you want to do what you need to do to make sure THEY have a chance. 

(also lets talk about the fucked up fact that humans are punished for lsitening to morgoth in the first place like im sorry that humans didnt have any other valar looking for them, there was no orome, no fucking chance that they could have met anyone else because no valar came for them only morgoth with his lies so yes humans are bad for listening to the only god like entity that seemed like he wanted to help them, the elves did that too but they had nice gods so they are wise while humans who have illness and sickness and death over their heads listen to a guy with power okay jirt i see your double fuckig stnarad and its STUPID) 

And you can’t wait for that chance, so you leap. I think this is best illustrated by Turin of all people. Turin gets called elvish a lot in looks but in actions, he, like most of his family, are allllllllll human. The bridge in nargothrand even though it’s stupid and ends up horribly kind of reminds me of this. Turin doesn’t have time to wait like Gwindor, and Orodreth, etc do. his people have already been fucking disomated, he’s lost his father, his mother is trapped in enemy territory.  He wants to help. 

Sure it blows up in his face, but yknow...the want to do good is there. 

I think on the whole humans get a bad rep...like they’re called stupid and dumb and ugly by both fandom and in universe elves alike. But I don’t think that’s the case. Humans have a lot more balls and have collectively been through more trauma as a species than I think all of the elves (especially valinorian) elves combined. I think when humans fuck up, whether it be turin or numenor, it’s proof of their incompetence, that their inante (eru-given ability) to have ambition to seek beyond the world they live in for something better for something more is evil and they should be more like the elves, stagnant, already at the height of ‘perfection’, never changing....instead of being humans. Like look at these fools trying to act like than can be GOOD at something, sit down and let these elves be best at everything obviously. How many of you would look at me funny if I said, maybe the race of men was BETTER THAN THE ELVES AT SOMETHING? A lot of you im sure, and someone would have a rebuttle for how I was wrong and how this elf was considered the best. 

(like that post going around how could turin actually be #that pretty to thot his way through all of beleriand? Maybe he just Was like that, sure he may have a little elvish ness but honestly I think that be a funny thing elves say to cover up the fact some elves found a icky human was actually just that fucking hot, because obviously humans could never be that actually hot ever, not to intangle a sindarin mast of a guard, a NOLDORIAN VANYAR-DESSCENT PRINCESS, ect) 

Also just to go back to numenor, ever want an example of why it doesnt work for men to act like elves...look at numenor, early numenor was as elvish as humans could produce....but then they got bored. And then numneor became an empire and everyone eventually had so much of a bad time, eru reshaped the fucking world just to wipe the valar’s ‘humans but better’ ocs off the face of the planet. Like just to stray off topic I personally think men can’t go to valinor 1) because the two trees are actually nuclear, and the whole damn island is chernobyl instant death right there and thats why the valinor elves are like #that (they GLOW for gods shake) 2) the monotonous never changing perfection of valinor while amazing in the short term for humans would eventually drive them crazy. Not to say that the race of men doesn’t like some peace and quite or even humans (like myself) can be obverse to change, even I can admit doing the same thing ever day would drive me crazy. 

This got super rambly, but its been a lot of thoughts Ive been having for a long ass time. Basically, I just want people to talk to me about the atani, edian, race of men, whatever you want to call them. They deserve a lot better and a lot more respect than just playing a supporting role to the elves. 

They didn’t kill all those dragons to be ignored like this. 

[unknown-de-mordor-blog]

Five ships I’m still not over

Beleg Cúthalion/Túrin Turambar

Universe: Middle-earth, first age

Ship name: Nothing that’s widely used in the fandom, I don’t think. But I like to think of them as ‘Black Sword (referring to Turin’s cursed weapon) and Strongbow (direct translation of Cúthalion)’

To me, there's no character more tragic than Turin son of Hurin, and no pairing more tragic than him and Beleg. And no clearer love, too. I don't know if J. R. R. Tolkien intended for them to go that far, but their emotional connection is so deep and powerful that whether you ship them or not it's undisputedly one of the most beautiful relationships in Tolkien's lore. Alas! It's not powerful enough to undo the curse placed on Turin and his clan, which ends both his and Beleg's life all too soon and all too tragically. So, yes, I count Beleg as one of the elves who die for love.

Favourite quote: 'I would lead my own men, and make war in my own way,' Turin answered. 'But in this at least my heart is changed: I repent every stroke save those dealt against the Enemy of Men and Elves. And above all else I would have you beside me. Stay with me!' 'If I stayed beside you, love would lead me not wisdom,' said Beleg.

Uh, I love this so much because it shows the difference in their temperament and maturity. Beleg's an elf who has lived through and fought in so many wars. He's an (elf)man of duty, honour and intellect, and Turin is still a young man whose pride and stubbornness can seriously get in the way of a grown-up conversation. And Beleg is so not having any of that in this scene. He’d do anything for Turin, including ditching his command to find him, but he can pull some tough-love moves, too, when Turin’s unreasonable.

Uzumaki Naruto/Uchiha Sasuke

Universe: Naruto

Ship name: sns, narusasu, sasunaru

I think Naruto and Sasuke canonically love each other, I really do, but I don’t think they are together romantically at any point in the series. And that’s by design, really. Sasuke -- the last of the Uchiha, the tragic figure of the Naruto series (still not as tragic as Turin, but let’s not do this morbid comparison) -- has too many issues to work through, and Naruto isn’t in the position to really help him through them. So as soul-deep as their bond is, they couldn’t have been together and survive each other. Although, I really want that to happen. That’s what fanfictions are for, I guess.

Favourite quote: ‘If you attack Konoha, I will have to fight you... So save up your hatred and take it all on me, I'm the only one who can take it. It's the only thing I can do. I will shoulder your hatred and die with you.’

Honestly, Naruto might just as well propose to Sasuke with that because he’s essentially saying ‘give me your worst, I’m not leaving and never will’. I know friends could be like that, too, but normally not to this degree and not with this kind of commitment. I’m not surprised at all when Sasuke has to ask Naruto why the hell he is doing all this for him. It just goes beyond reason, really.

S'chn T'gai Spock /James T. Kirk

Universe: Star Trek

Ship name: K/S, Spirk

The Daddy of all ships! Pun intended! Spock and Kirk's friendship really walks that fine line of are they/aren’t they. I personally think they aren’t (another controversial statement coming from a shipper), but they’re so cute together you just can’t help think: what if they are? They have this deep trust and affection for one another anyway; why not push it a notch further? ‘This simple feeling,’ as Spock calls it, might as well be love.

Favourite quote:

Kirk: How's our ship? Spock: Out of danger. Kirk: Good... Spock: You saved the crew. Kirk: You used what he wanted against him. That's a nice move. Spock: It is what you would have done. Kirk: And this... this is what you would have done. It was only logical. I'm scared, Spock. Help me not be. How do you choose not to feel? Spock: I do not know. [tears fall] Right now, I am failing. Kirk: I want you to know why I couldn't let you die... why I went back for you... Spock: Because you are my friend. [Kirk places his hand against the glass and gives the Vulcan Salute as he dies]

It’s actually really hard for me to pick a quote for these two because I think every ‘Jim’ from Spock does the job except nobody else would understand it but me. (Second to that is, ‘Captian, not in front of the Klingons.’) While I love them teasing each other a lot, I think Kirk’s death scene from Star Trek Into Darkness has all the right punches to it. Spock has been unable to accept the feeling of friendship towards Kirk (actually just feelings in general) until the moment he watches Kirk dies behind the glass door. And all just comes out like BOOM! Not to mention how close Spock comes to killing Khan for revenge before Uhura tells him that Kirk can be saved but they need Khan alive. Honestly, that’s the only reason Khan’s head doesn’t go plop in Spock’s hands.

Morgoth/Sauron

Universe: Middle-earth, first age

Ship name: it just came to my attention that the fandom is calling this ship Angbang (a wordplay on the name of their home/fortress Angband). Nicely done, you naughty people. Also Melkor/Mairon if you’re going by their proper first-age names.

I think a lot of people seeing this ship would go ‘what?!’ Like, how is that even possible when Tolkien didn’t write a single scene with the two of them in it. I’d say in this case the absence is more powerful. Tolkien wrote the Silmarillion and the Unfinished Tales as lore, so they necessarily come from the perspective of the tellers; i.e., humans and elves. That doesn’t mean Tolkien didn’t drop hints about the complex characters that the dark lords of Middle-earth are. He even has Elrond says that people don’t start out evil, not even Sauron. So the question becomes, what the heck happened? And the heck that starts it all out is pretty much in the first few chapters of the Silmarillion where Morgoth is clearly a powerful and inventive figure but in many ways an outcast and shunned by everyone including the very power that made him. (*cough* daddy issue *cough*) And then we are made aware of the fact Sauron, who is also powerful and creative, isn’t on Morgoth’s side from the get go but decides to join him later. The power-hungry dark lords we are later told about aren’t that at all, so it raises the question of their true characters and motives. If anything, I think the length in which Sauron would go for Morgoth thousands of years after his master is defeated and shut away says something about their bond with each other. And if I know one thing, it can’t be fear or respect. If I have to make a guess, I think it is akin to love.

Favourite quote: There isn’t anything I can quote from the source material since there hasn’t been a dialogue or anything they say to an audience that could be trusted as genuinely representing who they are. One thing I do scream about is the scene in the Return of the King movie when the black gate opened and behind there isn’t just the tower with the eye of Sauron but Mount Doom next to it in the same frame. I was like ‘I know Morgoth’s not here but isn’t that him in spirit.’ Yes, I’m a proper trash for these two.

Also, there’s this awesome comic series (unfortunately discontinued) by Suz. It’s legitimately hotter than the fire of Aule’s forge, honestly.

Beren/Lúthien

Universe: Middle-earth, first age

Ship name: I’m not aware of any ship name for these two but ‘Beren and Luthien’ is catchy enough as it is.

How else to finish this list but to dedicate the last entry to the greatest love story of Middle-earth, and, yes, I'm saying that with a straight face because, holy hell, this couple defies expectations left, right, and centre. Luthien, our elven princess, is an active participant in her own fate. She falls in love with a human who, in an act of valour, accepts her father's stupid, impossible task to steal the most treasured jewel from Morgoth the Dark Lord himself. Luthien basically runs away from home, finds her man captured and tortured, and tears the goddamn fortress down in a showdown with the-dark-lord-to-be Sauron himself (which makes you question the competency of everyone else in Middle-earth). They then proceed to steal the jewel together. They don't quite succeed in bringing it back and Beren loses his hand in the process, but hey, they could say it's in his hand, somewhere, and now could they please marry because otherwise I have a feeling that Luthien is going to elope with her boyfriend and her mom and dad won't be seeing her again ever.

And this is really just scratching the surface of Luthien’s feisty personality quite unbefitting of most princesses until the recent overhaul of attitude by Disney. And all this came from a man who was born in the Victorian era when women's autonomy wasn't given or respected. But I think Luthien's depth of character comes from the fact that she has a real-life counterpart, and so she feels more like a real woman. And the love between Beren and Luthien feels compelling because its the love the professor himself had for his wife and life-long partner, Edith. You can check out their gravestone. I'm so not making this up.

Favourite quote: The song of Lúthien before Mandos was the song most fair that ever in words was woven, and the song most sorrowful that ever the world shall ever hear. Unchanged, imperishable, it is sung still in Valinor beyond the hearing of the world, and the listening the Valar grieved. For Lúthien wove two themes of words, of the sorrow of the Eldar and the grief of Men, of the Two Kindreds that were made by Ilúvatar to dwell in Arda, the Kingdom of Earth amid the innumerable stars. And as she knelt before him her tears fell upon his feet like rain upon stones; and Mandos was moved to pity, who never before was so moved, nor has been since.

It’s not a scene between them, but this is how far Luthien’s love and badassery goes. She loses Beren in a battle to protect her father’s kingdom, and she dies grieving him. In the afterlife, she gets to meet the god of death Mandos and sings him a song of their love and her grief. Apparently, she’s so good with words and music that Mandos is like, ‘I can’t handle the feels. You can have your husband back and have a mortal life with him.’ And Luthien takes the deal, of course.