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contemplatingoutlander · 6 years ago

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LORD JOHN GREY AND ISOBEL DUNSANY: PART 2: Isobel and John’s marriage

In PART 1 of this two part essay series, I discussed how the show deviated from the books in making Isobel a more likeable character and in having her appear to be genuinely smitten with Lord John.

Lord John, although gay, felt great brotherly affection for Isobel both in the show and the books. But in the show it was clear how great that affection was when he proposed to Isobel:

Proposal gif: scotsmanandsassenach

This gave me some small hope that the outcome of their companionable marriage would be more positive in the show than in the books. Alas, it appears that the marriage in the show was in some ways more tragic because of the differences in how their marriage began in the show as opposed to the books.

Episode 406 started out with Lord John appearing to be grief stricken when he told Jamie about his wife’s death.

JAMIE: “Is, uh, Isobel with you?”

JOHN: “No. Isobel has died. On the ship between England and Jamaica. She and William were coming to join me there, and she took ill.”

JAMIE: “John, I I'm sorry to hear it. How are you bearing up?”

JOHN: “As you'd expect. It has been a trial. For William, especially. He's grief-stricken. But I must keep my chin up for him.”

JAMIE: “She was such a kind soul. And a wonderful mother to Willie. William.”

JOHN: “Yes, she was.”

So I had my hopes that the show’s version of the marriage would have turned out better than the book’s. But then the show’s writers decided to mirror the book almost exactly.

JOHN: “I need to make a confession. When I heard that Isobel had died I felt nothing. We shared a life. I should have felt something. But I didn't.”

CLAIRE: “Just relax.”

JOHN: “You asked me why I came here. I came to see whether I can still feel. Whether it is my feelings that have died. Or only Isobel.”

Okay, I have to admit I wish Diana hadn’t written this scene the way she did in the book and that the show’s writers hadn’t put this scene in the show. First of all from a character perspective, IMHO it makes no sense. Even though John just loved Isobel as a sister (as he said in both the books and show) he should have felt something when Isobel passed away.

And let’s not confuse John’s inability to feel with the numbness that people often experience immediately after hearing about a death. That “numbness” is actually “painful” in its own way. It isn’t an absence of feeling but a suppression of it. People who feel numb after a death can often feel the grief bubbling below the surface but they are in shock and for whatever reasons need to keep the depths of their grief at bay. And so they go numb. IMHO that is not what John is describing.

From what we know of John he is a caring, compassionate man. It would be out of character for him to feel nothing for Isobel. Yes, I know in the book (and presumably in the show) they had been separated for two years (she at home with Willie and Lord John at his post in Jamaica) and they were to be finally reunited when she suddenly died.

The two year absence might have taken a toll. But not that great a toll to explain why John didn’t feel anything.

The Isobel of the show was a very likeable character. Heck, I felt sad for that character dying and she was only on one episode. From my perspective, it makes no sense that John felt nothing..

At least John knew enough to feel ashamed that he was lacking feelings for Isobel. But later in the episode he talks more about it and just adds to the tragedy of their marriage.

JOHN: “I must beg your forgiveness. My lack of discretion, it pierces my very core.”

CLAIRE: “You were very ill.”

JOHN: “It's no excuse. But you were wrong. Knowing you have Jamie and I never will is not that which grieves me. It's a truth to which I am reconciled. It's witnessing the satisfaction on your face that wounds me. Something I could never give Isobel.

“Do you know what it's like to love someone and never be able to give them happiness? Not through any fault of yours or theirs, but simply because you were not born the right person for them?”

CLAIRE: “I understand. All too well.”

This scene did not happen this way in the book version of TDoA. However, Lord John said something similar to Claire in Voyager--but John was referring to Jamie in that scene, not to Isobel (see p. 767 in Voyager, Kindle Edition).

So the show’s writers took John’s words about his relationship to Jamie and made them about his relationship to Isobel. In doing so, IMHO they made what happened in John and Isobel’s marriage even more tragic than it was in the book.

This broke my heart for both John and Isobel. Because it suggested that Isobel was not content with the marriage. And I might not have been concerned if Book Isobel felt discontented in her marriage of convenience to John but IMHO Show Isobel deserved better.

No, I never expected John and Isobel to have a great sex life. John is gay after all. He could perform the act of having sex with Isobel but not feel the passion towards her. But I hoped they could be great companions and friends for each other. John’s speech suggests that Isobel was frustrated in the marriage, much like Frank was in his marriage to Claire and Laoghaire in her marriage to Jamie.

And that breaks my heart.

What do others think?

ADDENDUM. Other than the way they handled John and Isobel, I loved the way the show’s writers depicted John in episode 406.

[edited]

transcript from episode 406: Springfield! Springfield!

#outlander #episode 4x06 #lord john grey #isobel dunsany #marriage of convenience #tragedy #my gifs

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rubadubdub3nunsinatub · 1 year ago

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This has been in my head for years now and she is finally out and ready for you to see!

Title: First Time In London?

Rating: G

Pairing: Lord John Grey/Isobel Dunsany, Lord John Grey&William Ransom

Tags: Family Fluff, Father-Son Relationships, Missing Moments

Summary: John accompanies Willie on his first trip to London and realises what he's gotten himself into. Lots of John being a dad!

Read on AO3

#Outlander #outlander fanfic #lord john grey #isobel dunsany #william ransom #hal grey #family fluff

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imagineclaireandjamie · 7 years ago

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Murtagh on the Ridge - Company (Part 1)

So this fic was inspired and started after watching episode 3x04 but it quickly became clear that it was going to need to be broken up so I stalled in working on it. Not sure when I’ll get to the next piece of it cause there are a few other open AUs I have that I want to revisit first, but I will rewatch 3x04 at some point and my adoration for Isobel will renew the inspiration and I’ll write the next part.

— Mod Lenny

Previous installments of Murtagh on the Ridge: *listed in chronological order Claire’s return; first Christmas after Claire’s return; Bree’s arrival; Jem’s birth; a skunk on the ridge

The day the letter from John arrived, Jamie took Murtagh aside while Claire kept Ian preoccupied in her new garden up at the site for the big house.

“A son?” Murtagh asked, his eyes wide with disbelief and awe. “And… Claire?”

“She knows,” Jamie confirmed. “He’ll be nearing ten now and I dinna ken that he’ll remember me. I didna use my real name when I was there and I don’t know what John and his wife will be telling him either. But he was beginning to resemble me when I left and I didna want ye too surprised when ye saw him.”

“And Young Ian? What will ye be telling him?”

“Nothing. He’s no likely to notice and as no one will be sayin’ anything to Willie I dinna see reason why they might to Ian.”

Murtagh bit his tongue.

As the day they were expected to arrive drew nearer, Murtagh and Ian took it in turns to walk down to see the path any visitors would need to tread and whether there was any sign of them. The new house wouldn’t be finished in time, though it was progressing faster serving as a way to pass the time and drive away any nerves that crept up in the waiting.

Ian spotted the figures first and cried out for his aunt and uncle. Jamie and Claire exchanged a nervous glance—he worried what she’d think of the lad, she worried what the lad would think of her.

One figure was in the lead—a woman.

“Lady Isobel,” Jamie greeted her, stepping forward and taking the horse’s reins before helping her down in an old and familiar way.

“Mackenzie—that is, Mr. Fraser,” she caught and corrected herself. “Thank you. I’m afraid there was a small mishap.” She looked back over her shoulder, amusement blending with concern and exhaustion in the creases between her eyes and at the corners of her mouth.

They looked back to where John Grey walked leading his horse and William’s up the path. William walked a few paces off to the side with obvious discomfort and a red face.

“Willie went to relieve himself and wash up a bit at the riverside but fell in and became lodged in the mud,” Isobel explained.

“Is he all right?” Claire asked. Her eyes squinted to take in each figure’s gait and assess for potential injuries.

“I believe the only thing injured is his pride. John was able to help him escape, though he nearly toppled in himself. I don’t believe you’ll want him dirtying—”

“A bath,” Claire agreed before Isobel could finish. “A hot bath and some fresh clothes will take some of the sting out of his embarrassment.”

“Less of an audience to his humiliation won’t hurt either,” Murtagh added, clapping Ian on the shoulder. “Come, lad. Yer Auntie Claire will be needing water fetched and heated.”

Ian grumbled quietly as he was marched away.

“Your nephew, then?” Isobel asked Jamie.

Claire had to nudge him to break his fixation on William and John’s advancing figures. He blinked and flushed.

“Yes, milady.” He bit his lip at the old habit but Isobel smiled again with amusement. “That’s Ian Murray—my sister’s youngest lad. The elder is my godfather, Murtagh Fraser. And this… is my wife, Claire.”

“It’s a pleasure to meet you,” Claire said, extending a hand to Isobel. “Jamie’s told me all about you and your son.”

Isobel’s eyes went wide and her gaze shot momentarily to Jamie. He gave her a solemn nod and Isobel visibly relaxed.

“Yes, Willie can be quite a handful. Willful and stubborn, like his mother—my sister,” she explained.

“Our daughter was the same way,” Claire commiserated.

“Your… daughter?”

“She’s grown and living in Boston now,” Claire said, leading Isobel to the house while Jamie waited for John and William so he could help with the horses. “Jamie and I were separated at the end of the war and naturally, I assumed the worst…” Claire launched into her sanitized version of her time away from Jamie.

John’s face was strained as he reached Jamie.

“My wife has a bath starting for ye, lad,” Jamie told William, whose head was turned away so he didn’t have to look anyone in the eye. Mud had caked to his legs up past his knees and there were smears of it higher still. It was difficult to tell given the lad’s coloring, but Jamie thought he spied some in William’s hair too and there were definitely flecks of it freckling his cheeks.

“Thank you, Mr. Fraser,” John said politely. “I’m sorry to start our stay with such an imposition.”

“Tis nae trouble. It’s giving my nephew, Ian, something to keep him from trouble just now.” Jamie addressed William, simultaneously relieved and disappointed by the lad’s refusal to look at him. Would he recognize him as the groom who had taught him to ride only a few years ago?

He looked to John.

“Why don’t you head up to the house with your mother,” John suggested. “Mr. Fraser and I will take care of the horses.”

Parting ways, as soon as William was out of earshot Jamie explained, “I’ve told my godfather but my nephew knows nothing. Have ye told the lad anything about me? Does he ken I’m Mackenzie?”

“We haven’t said anything, no,” John waited at the entrance to the barn while Jamie led the horses inside to the few free stalls. The small structure was already quite crowded. “Isobel and I didn’t want to say anything without consulting you first.”

“I think perhaps it’s best to leave it to the lad. If he kens me, fine but if not… There’s no harm done, either way. How long do ye think ye’ll need to stay?”

“We don’t wish to inconvenience you,” John began, smiling when he saw Jamie frowning and ready to object, “but I hope to stay a few days at least. The journey from Jamaica has been rougher than anticipated. I should like to stay put long enough for Isobel to rest and regain some strength. She is not made for so much riding.”

“Aye, as I remember it she preferred to visit the horses and watch them rather than ride.”

“Yes, it was Geneva who enjoyed a good ride,” John remarked then immediately went red in the face.

“Indeed. Well, ye’re welcome to stay and rest as long as ye wish,” Jamie asserted, eager to change the subject. “We’re nearly finished with the larger house so if ye stay long enough the cramped quarters will only prove temporary.”

“That close to finishing?”

“Shouldn’t take more than another week till it’s habitable.”

“I should like to see it when you have a chance.”

“I dinna think Claire will allow it until after ye all eat and rest a bit but later this afternoon ought to be fine,” Jamie agreed.

With the horses safely put away, watered, and fed, Jamie and John walked back to the cabin.

Murtagh and Ian sat on a bench just outside the door.

“Twas too crowded wi’ the tub and all,” Murtagh explained then grunted as he forced himself to his feet. “Sir,” he said with a nod to John.

John blinked at the sight of Murtagh Fraser. Years spent outdoors and well-fed had undone a great deal of the damage from his decade at Ardsmuir but it couldn’t remove the gray from his head and beard nor the slight cough perpetually rattling in his chest.

“Mr. Fraser,” John nodded.

“Welcome to Fraser’s Ridge,” Murtagh added.

“Does yer son ken how to hunt?” Ian asked. “I’d be happy to take him and show him around if ye dinna think he’d rather stay inside. D’ye think he’d like Rollo?” The large, wolf-like dog panted placidly at the young man’s feet.

John took a step back with surprise at the size of the creature.

“Let’s wait and let them settle for now,” Jamie warned his nephew. “If ye need keeping busy, I’ll find things for ye.”

“No, Uncle Jamie,” Ian was quick to shake his head.

Claire appeared at the door. “There’s room enough inside again and a meal near ready as well.” Ian was fast through the door at the promise of food and the three Frasers laughed putting John at his ease again.

Claire and John commanded most of the conversation at dinner with tales of their travels, Jamie contributing a few stories from his time in France and mentioning Fergus though he and Marsali were unlikely to visit with Germain still so young and Marsali with child again. Claire recommending they limit their exposure to others where and when they could.

“There have been a number of things making the rounds now more people are coming to settle the area,” she remarked. “I heard rumor there might be mumps or measles about.”

“Must ye talk of disease and pestilence over dinner?” Murtagh chided with a look of discomfort.

“Apologies,” Claire laughed. “You’re looking a little pale, Mrs. Grey. I hope it wasn’t anything I said. Murtagh’s right—I get carried away with medical talk sometimes.”

“No,” Isobel insisted, rising awkwardly. “I’m just tired from the journey. Is there somewhere I might lie down and rest a bit?”

“Of course. Allow me,” Claire rose too and guided her guest to the only real bedroom in the cabin.

“Ye wanted to see the other house,” Jamie said to John. “Why don’t the rest of us go on up there now and leave the cabin here quiet for Lady Isobel…”

“I think that would be a good idea. Come along, Willie. Let Mama have her rest.”

They were gone all afternoon, the inspection of the new structure turning to work on aspects more easily accomplished with the help of extra hands.

“It’s a beautiful bit of wilderness you have here, Jamie,” John remarked as they made their way back to the cabin. Ian was gleefully leading William on a merry chase through the underbrush while Murtagh trailed behind to be sure the lads didn’t stray too far from the path.

“We’re happy here,” Jamie agreed. “It’s not Scotland but it’s a similar charm and freedom to it…” He trailed off as the cabin came into view and he spotted Claire pacing in the yard looking for them. It wasn’t relief that washed over her face when her eyes fell on John.

“Mr. Grey,” she called, hurrying to intercept them. “I’m afraid your wife has taken ill.”

“Is it serious?” There was concern in his voice but he kept it low and glanced over his shoulder at William who remained oblivious.

“I’m afraid it might be. I can treat her and I shall do my best—it’s a fever now but with it might… My first fear is that it might be contagious so I don’t want to expose anyone unnecessarily. How are you feeling?”

“Tired and hot from the work but—”

Claire had reached up to look at his eyes, feel his head and throat.

“You feel feverish… and your glands are swollen,” she declared. “I’m going to put you under the same quarantine as your wife. Now, one at a time with the rest of you.”

She examined each in turn but Ian was the only other one she found troubling. He wasn’t feverish but she didn’t like the look of a few spots on his neck and back.

“I don’t want you in the house with the others while you’re not showing definitive symptoms, but I don’t want you around the others either,” Claire instructed.

“Then where am I to go, Auntie?” Ian whined.

“You can stay in the loft of the stable until you either get worse and can come into the house or prove unaltered and healthy and then you can go with the others.”

“And where are we to go?” Murtagh asked.

“How ready is the new house?” she countered.

“Finished enough to make a wee camp there,” Jamie said. “I dinna want to be far. I want ye to be able to reach us if ye have need.” He didn’t have to clarify what need she might have; none of the possibilities were reassuring just then.

Claire nodded in agreement and turned to John who had done as Claire asked and quickly segregated himself from the others.

“Willie,” he said, catching the confused boy’s attention. “You’re going to need to go with Mr. Fraser and…” he glanced awkwardly at Murtagh, “Mr. Fraser. They’ll take care of you until Mrs. Fraser says it’s safe.”

“You and Mama are going to get well, right?” he asked.

“I don’t suspect Mrs. Fraser is going to give us much choice,” John answered with a playful smile. Jamie chuckled next to Claire.

“Can I see Mama first?”

“I don’t think—”

“Aye,” Jamie interrupted. “Come here lad and I’ll show ye a safe way to see her.”

William followed Jamie around the side of the cabin. Claire caught onto his plan and headed into the cabin with John close on her heels. She gently roused Isobel from her light sleep and directed her attention to the window then crossed to pull aside the sheer curtain and revealed Jamie holding William up to peer through the open window.

“Willie,” Isobel smiled and weakly pushed herself up off the pillow.

“Mama!” Willie cried. “Papa says I have to go with Mr. Fraser until you’re well again.”

Isobel looked briefly to Claire who nodded.

“That’s right, darling. You’re going to behave and listen to him for me, aren’t you?”

“Yes, Mama.”

“I’ll take good care of your son,” Jamie promised solemnly.

“I know you will,” Isobel smiled.

#;mod lenny #Murtagh on the Ridge AU #featuring: murtagh #featuring: william #featuring: young ian #Featuring: Lord John Grey #featuring: isobel dunsany grey #canon divergence

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johnwgrey · 7 years ago

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#outlander #outlanderedit #jamie fraser #isobel dunsany #lord john grey #william ransom #sam heughan #david berry #tanya reynolds #my photoset #p: outlander #outlander spoilers #i just can't deal with jamie's face here #they're all crying AND SO AM I!!!!

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cookie-de-baunilha · 1 year ago

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I know the fandom has already debated this several times before, but I think I have a different opinion (kind of) on the matter of John being faithful to Isobel during their marriage.

I don’t remember if Diana ever answered this question. So if she did, please, let me know in the comments.

To keep it short: I believe he was, but I don’t think he would’ve remained faithful if the marriage lasted longer. And I actually don’t think he intended to be faithful in the first place. I don’t believe he was actively looking for sexual encounters and one-night stands though, but if the opportunity presented itself to him, I don’t think he would’ve denied it. And eventually, it would happen.

A lot of people assume he was willing to be faithful because the marriage lasted only a few years (4 years, I think?), so looking in hindsight it doesn’t look like he made that big of a compromise.

But that’s the thing: he couldn’t possibly know that Isobel was going to die so young. When he decided to marry her, he was prepared to spend the rest of his life as a married man. And don’t get me wrong, John might be an honorable man, but I don’t believe for a second that he was willing to take on some kind of gay celibacy in order to stay faithful to Isobel for the rest of his days.

He told Claire he was loyal to Isobel, and I believe him. Maybe his sense of duty and honor prevented him from keeping the same energy as before lol. Maybe it just… didn’t happen.

But did he marry Isobel with the intention of not sleeping with another man ever again? Honestly, I don’t think so. At some point he would and he knew that beforehand, even if he wasn’t sleeping with anyone else during those years.

(Which we don’t really know for sure? My guess is that he didn’t sleep with any men, but he might have done it. Unless Diana already confirmed it)

He would’ve been extra careful about it, though. A lot of people believe that he wouldn’t risk exposure — therefore, dragging both his and Isobel’s names through the mud — and that’s why he remained faithful. But that goes back to the same problem: would he have done it for the rest of his life? Hmm 🤨 doubt it. So no, I don’t believe the risk of exposure would do much to keep him from cheating.

Also, William’s name (and the Grey family, may I add) would be affected by an exposure too, and we know for sure that being a Grey and raising William never stopped him from doing anything so there’s that.

He is just very careful and discreet* and being married and having a child would make him even more careful and discreet, but wouldn’t stop him from having sex with men.

*cough cough George Everett cough that problematic scene in Drums (sensibly modified for the show, thank God) cough cough… well, he has been reckless but whatever, he is discreet overall*

Also, John is an aristocrat man living in the 18th century. His idea of an honorable marriage would be different — and yes, it might involve a tolerance for indiscretions, depending on the circumstances. Convenience marriages were very common among his peers and faithfulness was not something expected in such arrangements (especially not from men).

I believe that, with all the information that we have, it’s safe for us to say that John is talking about his own marriage to Isobel in this scene in Drums when he is talking to Bree:

“You're right, I think. To live with someone you love, knowing that they tolerate the relation only for the sake of obligation — no, I wouldn't do it, either. Were it only a matter of convenience and respect on both sides, then yes; such a marriage is one of honor. As long as both parties are honest —” His mouth twisted briefly as he glanced in the direction of the servants’ quarters. “There is no need for shame on either side.” (Drums of Autumn, ch. 59)

I don’t think Isobel was operating on the idea that John loved her, and vice versa. They both knew it wasn’t love, but it was suitable. And that’s the way things work in their upper crust world. I truly believe that they liked and respected each other a lot. And if Isobel was to take a lover for herself, John wouldn’t mind. He would’ve wanted her to, actually, so he wouldn’t be the only one seeking partners elsewhere.

Now, if they ever discussed this openly is another matter. I don’t think they did, it might have been an unspoken agreement. And Isobel definitely wouldn’t know about John’s sexuality — so maybe that’s the irony of “as long as both parties are honest” in his speech. They were honest to a certain extent: they both knew it was a convenience marriage and that love played no part in it, but Isobel never knew the truth about John.

I don’t believe John would’ve had any serious relationships though. Well, he doesn’t have any as a widower either lmfao John runs like the devil from serious commitments, so being married or not doesn’t really make a difference.

Maybe we will get more information on all of this in the next LJG novel if it ever sees the light of day. Diana said the novel was going to cover his years working for the English Black Chamber, which I believe to have happened at the same time as his marriage to Isobel? idk I suck at keeping up with the timeline of these books

#outlander #lord john series #lord john grey #john grey #isobel dunsany #outlander meta

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