#like you know how zelda and her powers are implied to work the same. they focus on protecting the one(s) they love & their powers activate

[lanayrutower]

this keeps me up at night btw.

[zelda-of-hyrule-tloz]

Why the "Prime Energy?"

In Echoes of Wisdom, we encounter the Triforce for the first time in a long time (in its usual state, anyway). But something that stood out to me (and a lot of people, I'm sure) was the title it went by: The Prime Energy. It's not something we've heard before, so we have to wonder: why? I obviously can't give a "canon" answer, but I do have some ideas.

Energy in Echoes of Wisdom

Throughout EoW, we collect little blue crystalline shapes called "energy." This replenishes the gauge that allows Zelda to use her swordfighter form. These crystals are found throughout the Still World and appear tied to Might Crystals, which also appear from the rifts (but only when they close). We use them to upgrade the sword and bow themselves.

There are two safe assumptions we can make about Energy:

Might Crystals are the "purified" form of energy or something close to it (its resemblance to bismuth "crystals" seems to hammer in this implication).

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"Energy" is the essence we see Null consume in Din's tale. It appears on its own even before land and sky are built around it. Because of this and the association to might and vitality, this essence must be that of life itself. (Perhaps Zelda's role as a Priestess is what allows her to use this energy in its raw form and gain that supernatural state, unlike Link?)

How may the Triforce relate to this idea of energy?

We know that Din, Nayru, and Farore go on to create the land of Hyrule (or what would become MANY Hyrules over time) to seal Null and prevent its destruction of all life. In A Link to the Past, Ocarina of Time, and Skyward Sword, we are told the Triforce is left behind in the wake of this world's creation (creation over the void, in the context of EoW).

The Triforce has the ability to judge those who use it (even going as far as to prevent deities from using it) and its essence speaks to Link in ALttP. Although it may not be "alive" in the same way most mortal characters are in the series, it has a will. This will knows not of good and evil, only of the traits each piece is meant to embody.

We also know that the Triforce has dominion over said world and beyond, being able to shape realms by its wish-granting and power-giving abilities. Hence, the idea of "prime." And, in Lorule of A Link Between Worlds, we can see just how much the rest of the world depends on the Triforce's existence for its energy to be sustained.

EDIT: Don't forget the Force Gems in FSA! They further emphasize the ideas above in the same way!

It's also worth noting that the Tris are tied to the idea of threes, and they are the idea of "existence" to Null's "nothingness." They reinforce the idea of the Triforce's embodiment of "being."

The "Prime Energy" is the Triforce's true name and original state - its intended title. "Then," You may ask, "Why have we called it the Triforce up until this point?"

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Why the Triforce?

It is after the three leave that Hylia is brought into existence with the sole purpose of protecting the Prime Energy. But there's an important detail many overlook:

Hylia doesn't know the purpose of the Triforce.

Not fully, anyway.

Yes, Hylia knows how it works - her whole plan to defeat Demise revolves around it - but she still has questions. Even with all of her memories restored, the first Zelda states that she doesn't know why the Triforce was left behind. She guesses that it was to give the people of the world Hope (perhaps even against world-destroying entities like Null, should he break free...). Even then, it's only a guess.

Doesn't it stand to reason, then, that she wasn't even given its name? After all, she was only created to understand and protect the golden power; perhaps even as an "extension" of its being, given her often implied powers over light and time magic (but that's just a personal headcanon). Perhaps "Triforce" is simply what she took to calling it, as she still could recognize that it was something beyond the nature of the mortal world. (Also, I see it reasonable that she could see Tris - she probably saw them patching rifts and drew a connection between them, which influenced the name).

And, in the thousands of years to follow, wars become waged over the Prime Energy as it is understood only as a relic: a relic meant to give ultimate power to the one who touches it.

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Conclusion

The Prime Energy is the true name of the Triforce, and it is the core to the many realms of Hyrule. Its nature has been misunderstood by many throughout its existence, but none of these ideas are truly false; it holds dominion over time and space while simultaneously keeping it together. It is an essence of the very concept of "life," and as such holds a sort of "will" of its own. It is the ultimate state of the Energy we see everywhere else in Echoes of Wisdom, and Hylia may not be far off - despite being a neutral force that begins and ends wars, it may just be personification of the idea that life will prevail. Although the worlds in this franchise may be scorched and healed, they are never meant to fade into nothingness like Lorule once verged. They are simply meant to be.

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to those who may have scrolled to the bottom because this is unnecessarily long, it's basically just what its name was supposed to be when the three created it but then they just sort of forgot to tell hylia that or anything else lol. also it may just be a personification of existence like the fittingly-named tris.

I love love love solving little Zelda lore puzzles, I may do this again. :) I just HAD to lore dump when a friend asked me about it

[vampire-wizard-solidarity]

@your-local-ruebit-hole-detective ok i’m sorry but. i will answer your question.

age of calamity advertises itself as a prequel but in reality it’s a fix-it au with slight differences and writing that’s pretty bad but i have grown to appreciate it for how insane it goes sometimes.

the actual plot is that as a child zelda used to have a little egg-like guardian robot that she was forced to leave behind as she grew up due to her father’s pressure etc, and when the calamity happened this little robot saw it and traveled back in time with the goal to prevent this and protect zelda, creating a branching off timeline. there’s also an extra villain who is this prophet (???? this games writing isn’t good enough for me to tell you what his deal is exactly) who worships ganon and for most of the game works with the yiga to bring him back, except he’s more insane than them and works directly with malice and also sucks at his job because when he finally gets to ganon he unceremoniously dies and everybody’s like “yeah we have no idea what this guys deal was”.

the one significant change that doesnt have to do anything with time travel shenanigans is the fact that link doesn’t find the master sword as a child, but instead gets appointed zelda’s bodyguard for his genuine skill and then finds the master sword during one of the in game missions. despite this, revali still hates him, and often times when justifying this revali cites reasons that are literal complete opposites of how his grudge was characterised in botw, cementing revali’s characterisation as just a cunt for no reason. it’s great.

the significant time travel related change is that when all the champions go into their divine beasts and fight the blights a portal opens and the new champions (teba, sidon, riju, yunobo) get teleported in and help defeat the blights. zelda also doesn’t get her power by protecting link from a bunch of guardians, the scene still hits the same beats of link fighting things off so zelda can run away except in this game how it happens is that the insane prophet shows up and literally summons all the blights against link which makes the scene ten times more insane.

throughout the game the yiga show up regularly, often times with master kohga himself showing up and being the overall goofy guy he is, except he also has a hunk of a body guard who’s name i genuinely can’t recall. multiple times in the game kohga gets defeated and said hunk of a body guard throws him over his shoulder says “it’s not over yet” and walks off carrying kohga like a sac of potatoes.

in the original game, when shit starts hitting the fan the yiga stop showing up as enemies and at some point in the story kohga shows up without said hunk of a body guard, says “the prophet is insane and the calamity actually isn’t a good thing as we’ve discovered”, highly implies that the reason for his change of heart is because said prophet killed his hunk of a body guard (who literally. doesn’t show up again for the rest of the game mind you. he legit died), and is like “yeah the yiga will help you. after this whole thing is over we’ll go back to being bitches to you but rn let’s just kill this ganon guy and then walk our separate ways”. the fact that the calamity being a bad thing throws the yiga’s whole ideology and purpose into question is never addressed.

the dlc makes the death scene explicit, also making it a parallel to zelink by, again, making the bodyguard fight all the fucking blights so that kohga can escape. the scene literally opens with the body guard limping as they try to escape. it’s so much a parallel to zelink it’s insane. im afraid do not know what the hell they were cooking.

some other choice moments from this game that go insanely hard for no reason:

1. the first portion of the game is dedicated to zelda recruiting all the champions, and when it comes to recruiting revali he for some reason assumes it’s an attack, and sends all the rito soldiers to fight the intruders off. the rito do not question fighting some random hylians one of whom is literally zelda. the mission ends with a boss fight of link vs revali, which only ends without them killing each other because zelda runs in and goes “stop???? the fuck ????”

2. the entire game has cute bonding moments with the botw champions meeting their idols and getting to spend time with them. that is, except for sidon, who spends the game saving his older sister in a parallel universe which he has to leave by the end of the game, meaning every scene involving him has him on the brink of eleven hundred simultaneous mental breakdowns. the dlc adds a scene where the little sidon who is native to said parallel universe gets to interact with botw sidon, and botw sidon tells him that he’s going to grow up big and strong and will protect his sister, and the entire time he tries really hard to not acknowledge the fact that they are the same person, and that mipha is his sister too, presumably because nobody wanted to animate sidon ugly crying. in that scene you can literally see his soul die in his eyes it’s great

3. the dlc features tulin, god knows why. i don’t know how he got there or what he’s doing. he’s just there.

4. you can make noble pursuits in the game and drink them before missions for a buff. pre-gaming defeating the calamity is a thing, i cannot stress how much it is a thing in this game.

5. there are two separate animated cutscenes where link eats rocks on screen. only one of them involves the gorons, the other is a scene where link is being discussed and as the characters talk about how great he is in battle the camera pans to him eating rocks, seemingly on a dare from the other soldiers, who all surround him and are immensely excited by the fact that he is actually eating rocks.

6. the dlc features a scene where zelda gets to cook. link is horrified the entire time. she does not belong in the kitchen. she belongs anywhere outside the kitchen. the dlc also gives her the master cycle as a weapon. she commits vehicular manslaughter

7. the king gets a redemption arc, where he apologises to zelda only after she unlocks her power. the reason he realized he was wrong was because a sheikah relic that he confiscated from zelda turned out to be an ancient shield and it saved his life from a guardian blast. his apology is literal dog shit and right after it the game forces you to play as him for a mission. it almost made me rage quit.

8. thunder blight has an attack where it just swings its hair at you

9. when you finally fight calamity ganon he doesn’t have the form of the spider ganon from botw or even the boar, he is instead a buff guy made out of malice. literally just the shape of a buff non descript guy made out of malice. his boss fight is endless and the entire time you’re just beating the shit out of a non descript buff guy shape with a stick.

10. there’s a cute little side mission called something like “girls beauty contest” (in reality they all beat the shit out of each other for the title), where you’re only allowed to select female characters. that is, female characters AND gorons. think of that what you will

[aikoiya]

LoZ Theory - Hylia = Amaterasu, But What Does That Mean?

Now, this theory is mostly just for fun, okay? So, keep that in mind when reading this.

Anyway, I'm sure that we've all realized to some degree that Hylia has some very obvious parallels to Amaterasu of Shintoist theology. At least, thematically speaking.

However, that brings into question as to who would take on the thematic roles of Tsukuyomi & Susano-o?

Interestingly, Hyrule itself doesn't really seem to have any gods of the moon & while wind & sky & even water gods have appeared throughout the games, the only one who you could feasibly refer to as a "storm god" really wasn't up to the same level as Hylia & I'd thus argue that he couldn't really be called a Susano-o parallel.

However, there was 1 divine entity that did appear in at least 1 game & had cameos in a couple of others. One that appears to bear some sort of connection to the moon.

The Fierce Deity. (Yes, he is actually, canonically, a Kishin, who are known for being compassionate protectors despite their viciousness in battle, however, I'm talking thematic roles here & therefore, he doesn't need to be a perfect representation of Tsukuyomi. At the same time, Hylia doesn't just parallel Amaterasu, but in some ways Danu, an Irish mother goddess, & even Christ to a degree. So, I don't understand why FD couldn't also have multiple influences.)

Not to mention, did you know that wolves, rabbits, & fairies all have some sort of connection to the moon? Like, I'm sure most of us know the wolf connection, but also there's the legend of the Jade Rabbit & I remember reading somewhere that the full moon was a portal to the realm of the fae. So, even in that respect, the Links still have some faint connections to the moon.

But if Hylia = Amaterasu & Fierce Deity = Tsukuyomi, then that still leaves Susano-o's Hyrulean mirror.

However, maybe we can figure this out by working through the game characters that Hylia & FD are most associated with, which are Zelda & Link.

And, as I'm guessing you're realizing, they too have a third: Ganondorf. And what seemingly divine entity is he most associated with?

The Bringer of Demise. Who happens to call down lightning in battle, as does Ganondorf. You could even make an argument about how his hatred could mirror the indiscriminant destructive power of a storm. Natural disasters, if you will.

Now, what I find interesting is what this implies about the 3 Hyrulean divinities in question. Because Susano-o had fallen from grace & been cursed into the body of a mortal for his misdeeds until he earned back his spot among the gods.

Is it possible that Demise had also been a true deity before committing some act that caused him to be cast out & become an... Akuma?

In fact, one of the things Susano-o did to get thrown out was that he destroyed his sister's crops. Specifically, it appears that he & Amaterasu both had 3 rice fields each, but whereas her fields were fertile, his were dry & barren, which in his jealousy, he destroyed her fields. (Which, itself, creates a bit of an interesting parallel between not just Susano-o's relationship with Amaterasu & Demise's with Hylia in SS, but also between the godly siblings & Ganondorf's relationship with just Hyrule, in-general. At least, if you trust WW Gdorf's words.)

One possible issue I see is a bit of discrepancy in the myths. In some depictions, it's Susano-o who kills Ōgetsuhime after his banishment, but in others, it's Tsukuyomi who kills Ukemochi. Which are simply 2 different names for the same goddess. Not only that, it was for the same reason. In order to serve them food, she produced it via some very unsanitary means, so they killed her for it.

As for Tsukuyomi, he seems to be regarded as an evil god, but at the same time, he only seems to appear in 2 myths. The myth of he & his siblings' birth & the myth of him killing Ukemochi.

Beyond that, personality wise, Tsukuyomi was described as cold & reserved, as well as having been noted to value things such as order, justice, & etiquette a great deal, to the point where it's said that he was willing to kill to maintain it despite murder not being condoned. In this way, he's seen as violent. Which could well fit with Fierce Deity, considering his portrayal as a Kishin with a few tweaks.

On the other hand, FD is referred to as a Kishin, which are inspired by the Buddhist Pāla or Protectors, a.k.a. Wrathful Gods. And though they are fearsome in battle & terrifying to behold, one of their core qualities is that they are compassionate, ultimately benevolent, & visit just vengeance upon those who wrong the innocent.

However, the only reason for Tsukuyomi being referred to as an evil god was his murder of Ukemochi. So, how does it change his character in a situation where the one to do so was instead his brother?

Are there other things he's done? It doesn't seem like it, which kinda paints Amaterasu in a not-so-great light considering how Susano-o does a lot more terrible things, yet later, she still forgives him.

Hell, remember he basically commits the exact same crime as Tsukuyomi. So, why is it that Susanoo gets a pass despite all the other shit he did, but Tsukuyomi doesn't despite technically having only 1 mess-up?

Is it because he hasn't apologized yet? Because he didn't get her some super powerful gift? Honestly, it makes me wonder what Amaterasu's reaction to Ukemochi's hostess skills & how she produced the food would've been.

Furthermore, either Tsukuyomi killed Ukemochi, Susano-o killed Ōgestuhime, or Tsukuyomi killed her, she revived, & then Susano-o killed her again later.

In the case of the last one, it brings to question why she hadn't learned her lesson? At that point, she only has herself to blame.

However, it's also possible that the story of night & day & Susano-o killing Ōgetsuhime could possibly be one in the same, just told from 2 different perspectives. Keep in mind that Susano-o was able to transform a woman into a comb even after being banished. It wouldn't be too farfetched to assume that he could transform himself as well. Hell, shouldn't taking on the visage of another person theoretically be much easier than literally turning another person into an inanimate object?

If I'm right, then the situation would unfold like this: Susano-o was banished, Ukemochi held a feast & invited Amaterasu, she couldn't come & sent Tsukuyomi instead, Susano-o heard of Ukemochi's grand feast, & took on his brother's appearance. Susanoo-o as Tsukuyomi asked Ukemochi to provide him with food, then upon seeing how she did so, he killed her before leaving, & that's when Tsukuyomi came upon the scene. However, this left Tsukuyomi to be blamed for her death because other partygoers witnessed the not-Tsukuyomi's crime, which resulted in Amaterasu & the real Tsukuyomi separating, thus creating day & night. (Not that this is actually what happened in myth, but it's just a thought.)

However, even if he did do it, if this was the only instance of Tsukuyomi behaving in such a manner, then it honestly seems very unfair to have him automatically slighted as evil.

Though, what I find interesting is that if my interpretation of the story were correct, then it'd somewhat create another parallel between Tsukuyomi & FD. The misconception that dark automatically means evil, which has led to both being demonized. In FD's case, pretty literally due to unfortunate translation association.

Sorry, I just found this possibility to be very freaking interesting.

LoZ Cultural Masterlist 1

[the0maski]

Little thoughts and feelings about Update Dawn part 9| part 1

Malo Mart mentioned!!!

Twilight Princess: In game Link can’t afford anything in Malo Mart Castle Branch, right?

Since I haven’t played TP, does the one in Kakariko Village closed once the one in Castle Town open?

Oh Four what are you doing to your poor grandpa! He will be so grounded the moment the chain visits his time. But I don’t think his old man will be to harsh to him

In the beginning of Minish Cap, Smith tells Zelda that Link had helped him at the forge the whole night and that’s the reason he slept in. MC Link does his chores like the good grandkid he is!

Sky…I don’t remember Skyloft having a Postal Service…? And the Surface doesn’t have one yet…so unless a blue or red loftwing shows up I doubt Sky gets a letter…

I have no doubt that the range is safe, but I have a theory of why Time is still tense about everything.

It’s clear that Time didn’t like the stand Twilight pulled to get to The Shadow. Not like Warriors, who was mad, because it complicated their work together, but because Twilight really doesn’t know when to quit! (Similar mentality to Hyrule)

Yet Time seams to know the consequences first hand, seeing how he says: »But I saw something I knew I couldn’t stop. That pure determined courage.« later he adds »That choice alone could have claimed your life. Don’t push yourself like that.

Sadly Oot Link is one of the more stoic 3D Link so I couldn’t say if this could be a reference to the game, but I’m sure it kinda is.

1. Theory: The final battle against Ganondorf/ Ganon

Maybe Time was remembered how he felt and acted against Ganondorf. Since Jojo takes more out of the games implied lore for her comics, it can also be a subtle hint to the downfall timeline. The Hero (Oot Link) dies in his final battle against Ganon, which leads to seven sages sealing the evil king inside the sacred realm.

Is not clear how the Hero dies, but if this is a subtle hint, than Time saw and experienced, technical, his own death in that fight.

2. Theory: Fierce Deity and how Time lost his eye

Little is known about the Fierce Deity in LU canon, but going from the little we know the Fierce Deity is their own soul inside the mask. Time said, »I have Items that could drive a man mad.«

Maybe the "pure determined courage" lead to him getting over powered by the mask dark powers, following him losing an eye. Not sure if the mask had a direct impact on Time losing his eye, or if it was caused by an enemy he couldn’t avoid in time.

Time also didn’t fear Majora’s Mask, just saying that » I‘d be far more afraid of what destroyed the demon.« while looking into Majora’s eyes as the Fierce Deity. There is no fear of the mask he has. However, there is to little evidence for any of this as well.

Putting it lightly? Sir, you quite literally death glared your descendent into quitting being stubborn! If Twi wasn’t mortally wounded, Time would have yeeted him to the inn, no question asked.

Not sure if the game touched the subject or if I’m projecting, but since Oot Link got a lot of bullying from Mido and other, I always imagined him with a quick temper and bad emotion control. Time could be the same, yet since he is older he keeps himself in check.

More on part 2

[nolongerapileofashprobably]

What do you think about link and Zelda’s characters?

I wonder if this is specifically Zelda and Link from the Wild Era— I’ll assume so since it is the newest era and I have been primarily focused on Wild Era games recently.

I’ll start with Zelda’s character first— to put it plainly, I love her as a character. She grows and develops despite witnessing literal tragedies and shouldering the weight of a kingdom from birth. Her duty was set forth the moment the prophecy came to light and she was put at a disadvantage when her mother died.

If we remember, Zelda didn’t cry at her mother’s funeral. We know from the game that Zelda is quite an emotional character, so her putting on a front of placing so much on herself at such a young age is something that breaks my heart. But to see how she grows as a person, how she overcomes that emotional blockage through sheer love, how she handles the wreckage of the Calamity, how she develops as a leader, to finally how she becomes a Queen is by far the most powerful and beautiful Zelda character arc in the series. She is so beloved in my heart that I cannot formulate the words to describe those emotions, though I desperately try.

There is no Zelda in the entire series that I adore and cherish more than her (and I’ve played nearly all the games). She’s on another level of development and complexity that it truly hurts to see people completely warp her personality and her actions to justify a false narrative.

Her character is incredibly strong, not just magically, but in terms of actual character design, development, and the execution of her story. She has her flaws, and we actively see her work on them and course correct when she can. That is something so mature and important (and I don’t think people give her enough credit for that). I genuinely don’t have many critiques of her character, as I was genuinely happy with her through the entirety of the story.

Link on the other hand… I do love him. I do. Link is a strong character physically, but his development is incredibly scarce compared to Zelda. His character suffers from Nintendo’s choice to essentially make Link a ‘link to the player’ rather than his own person. With a story that incites powerful emotional responses when players cannot refuse that Zelda and Link 1) are incredibly close/bonded, probably lowkey codependent 2) have not left each other’s side since they were reunited and finally that they are 3) probably romantically involved, or something akin to transcending just a simple friendship, it’s difficult to ensure that experience when all of that is lost on those who decide that it isn’t true.

Mind you, everything I listed above are simple and straightforward interpretations of in-game evidence. And we do see a lot more from Link’s character this game with small gasps and micro expressions (that should NOT be ignored). But for those who do not agree with the above, it’s likely they disliked the story. That’s okay, not everyone will like the story. But a lot of it stems from this vagueness Nintendo established for Link’s character.

He was a kid beating soldiers in the guard, trained in Zora’s Domain, continued training, got the Master Sword when he was a preteen, had the weight of a prophecy placed on him as the first piece besides Zelda, and then became a Champion and Zelda’s Knight Attended by the age of 16/17. Homeboy did have a lot of trauma and stress at an early age that did cause selective muteness and for him to create this stoic mask. We see that he is much less stoic and more talkative after the Calamity and after, but it’s all relative to what the player wants/feels. Sometimes that contradicts what the story itself implies/tells players.

Link is… wasted potential as a character. He could have 100% been more than what we were given to see. I have crafted my own version of him that to me, is as close as canon as I could get, but that won’t be the same for anyone else. Link is precisely what Nintendo wanted him to be and he serves that purpose perfectly.

And it works, but it could have been executed a bit better by confirming things regarding his character rather than leaving breadcrumbs for players to follow if they decided to.

So yeah. Zelda is amazing and I love her. Link could have been executed better but for what we got, I still love him too and extracted enough to formulate as close to canon interpretation without being overly biased (at least I tried).

[robotmieser]

I love writing my crossover fanfic. Like

At first I was just kind like "I mean yeah I guess you could put Link as a stand in for Artoria for Fate Stay Night" and through writing the fanfic I kinda sat and did a lot of comparing and was like "Hey wait a minute."

///WARNING: AUTISTIC RAMBLE THE LIKES OF HUMANITY HAS NEVER SEEN BEFORE DOWN BELOW///

Like first off, let's compare Link and Artoria. Alright, let's get the obvious stuff out of the way.

Blonde

Fair Eyes

Carries a conceptually powerful holy sword

But let's dig a little deeper

They both somewhat regret carrying their respective holy sword. For Artoria, on the eve of her death she wishes so much to change the fate of herself and Britain that she makes a pact with the world itself to be able to even have a chance to change this fate.

Link, consequently resents being a hero, or at the very least that could very well be implied. See, Link only pulls that sword out because Zelda tells him to. He goes through seven levels of hell just to save her and slay Ganon.

He is a changed man. A few days ago (or probably more, considering that multiple days, maybe even weeks or months can go by if you do all the side quests) he was just a ten year old boy trying to do his best and save people.

Now, he's suffered and done so much, all in the name of being a hero. He has seen so much shit. He's had to see the forest he called home fall to monsters. He's had to reconcile with the fact that his big sister figure, Saria has ascended to a higher plane to a place he can't access, so he'll never see her again. Same goes for Darunia, Ruto (by the way, how do you think he coped after figuring out what fiancé meant just to lose said fiancé?), Impa, Nabooru.

He finally gets all the medallions, he saves everyone, he does their little side quests, and with full health, protection from the Great Fairies, and Master Sword in tow, he slays Ganon.

The Seven Sages seal him away in the Sacred Realm, and all is right in the world.

But no. Not really. No it's not. Zelda sends him back. To get a proper childhood that was robbed of him.

It doesn't take a genius to tell the holder of Wisdom that things just don't work like that.

He's changed.

But he doesn't have a choice. So he's sent back. He probably shit stomps the bosses that once gave him decent trouble as a child, and with enough time to spare, he goes to the castle, Triforce of Courage in tow and exposes the plots Ganondorf had. Hooray! All is solved! But... No it's not.

Sure, several years later, they finally capture and put down Ganondorf. They bring him to the Arbiter's Grounds, and plan to execute him.

Twilight Princess shows how this goes down. It goes poorly. Ganondorf breaks from his bonds and kills the Sage of Water. (Boy, I wonder who the Sage of Water is? Surely it couldn't be the Zora Princess? Link's possible fiancee?)

They don't even manage to finish Ganondorf off, they send his ass to the literal shadow realm. Zelda's plan was so piss poor that it didn't even work.

He's so steeped in regret after a life of suffering, that he becomes a shadow of his former self. He becomes the Hero's Shade. Where do you first encounter him? Faron Woods. Near the Lost Woods and Sacred Grove where the Master Sword waits. Homeboy became a Stalfos!

Even worse, the Hero's Shade has battle damage on his armor. It's quite possible he was injured badly enough that he went back home to lay down and die.

One thing about animals, but especially canines in general. When they know they're dying, they'll move to find a quiet place to die. What form does the shade take first before you fight him in a form? A wolf, just like Twilight Princess Link takes.

A dog. An animal usually depicted as an animal of servitude.

A life steeped in regret, after pulling a sword from a stone that changes the trajectory of the wielder's life forever. Sound familiar?

Can I also say, it's hilarious that conceptually, both have swords that are fucking stupid levels of strong?

The Master Sword is a holy sword made by the goddess of the entire planet, reforged by the flames of dragons and is the blade of evil's bane. It conceptually, just drives away evil, specifically the evil of one fucking guy for all eternity.

Excalibur is the Sword of Promised Victory, made by the fairies, which might as well be gods in the Nasuverse and is made with the breath of the planet. Not unlike the Master Sword. Both swords are so overpowered it's almost funny.

—————————————

And that's not even touching on the similarities that Link and Shirou or rather, Shiroko have in this fanfic.

Link and Shiroko are both people saved from flames caused by a war, either figurative or literal.

Their birth parents are dead, and they are saved and raised by a single father.

Said father is later killed by a curse when Link/ Shiroko is around ten-ish

Because of suffering through their respective tragedies, either known or unknown, they're ostracized either by choice or by others.

Link is ostracized as a result of being different. He's just different. He has no fairy. He's not like any other Kokiri. He ages. He grows old. He's not like them. He's different, so they don't post him much mind.

Shiroko ostracizes herself because she was old enough to remember the tragedy that befell her original family, and even then, she represses it so hard she forgets what even actually happened.

The Great Deku Tree is killed by Gohma and Kiritsugu is killed by the lingering damage from The Grail/ Angra Mainyu. By the way, very poignant that both are dead men by the time their problems are solved.

Both have an older sister figure that will constantly look young and beautiful and such. Link has Saria and Shiroko has Illyasviel.

Ironically, on different ends of the spectrum of affection. Saria has nothing but love for Link, and treats him with every ounce of support she has m can give. Whereas Illyasviel has resentment and hate towards Shiroko for living a life she should have, making her obsessed with Shirou.

Both older loli bait big sister figures ascend to a higher plane/ or die to assist their respective protag at one point or another. Saria awakens as a Sage, and Illyasviel uses the Third Magic and deactivates the Grail to save Shiroko during Heaven's Feel.

Both have a girl obsessed with them for one act of kindness. Link has Ruto and Shiroko has Sakura.

Also it's funny that both Shirou and OoT Link get a game like a year after their respective games that involves time loop bullshit to fight an evil that possesses people and is so ancient it barely has form and just wants to watch the world burn.

Ganondorf wanted to rule the world with an iron fist.

Angra Mainyu and Majora just want to watch the world burn. All they know anymore is hate. It's so conditioned to them after years being a vessel for it, that they just don't care anymore. They want to destroy the world and have fun doing it!

————————

Anyway go peep my fanfic if you enjoyed this ramble

[angeliczelda444]

Ok so since my mind won't STFU about TOTK especially with my goat dad Rauru I have yet another headcanon/potential DLC idea for totk. So here it goes. (Also sorry I know this is long but please bare with me)

Ok for starters, I'll make a separate post about this but I'm also coming up with a potential DLC idea to include a backstory to not only the Zonai people but within Rauru and Mineru's childhood and youth. This backstory will show the history of the Zonai and what lead to their downfall and how Rauru became king. In one of the cutscenes I'm thinking of, it will be about Rauru but here he is the age of 10 years old. His secret stone of light was actually his mother's and she shares the same light power as him. Remember when Zeldas mom and Urbosa would call Zelda little bird? She would call him something similar. She would call Rauru "Sweet dove". This is gonna be sad I know but the reason why she gave Rauru her secret stone was not only the fact that Rauru was ready for it.....but she was on the brink of passing away from being poisoned by a group of people who are killing the Zonai. (That will be for a separate post). And with this Rauru swears on his life to become the best Warrior for his people and to honor his mother's wish. And that's where it can fast forward to Rauru in his teen years. (Again, I'll make a separate post for this idea). Ok so now!!! What if there were additional cutscenes for the DLC and it actually shows a bit more of wholesome memories with Zelda in the past along with Rauru, Sonia and Mineru? This cutscene in practicular would focus on Zelda and Rauru. Keep in mind, especially in the ancient stone tablets it implies that Zelda was in the past for quite some time so naturally she would create a bond with these 3. And we've already seen a bit in that one dragon tears with Sonia and Rauru regarding Link. Ok so anyways! This cutscene here would be about Zelda and Rauru. Keep in mind, although she may have Sonias time power and she is mainly trying to use that, Rauru still wants to help Zelda as well with her power of light. And another way for these both to bond is by him showing her around Hyrule within that time and maybe show her his kingly duties. Ok, so this is where it gets wholesome. She's explained to Rauru before along with Sonia about how Urbosa would call her little bird. She has also explained to these 2 how her dad was so hard on her for power of light. Little does Zelda know, Rauru relates to Zelda very much. In the Zonai backstory, his dad was severely hard on him. Hell he was even worse than Rhoam. Rauru felt a huge ass responsibility towards his people back then because his power was seen as rare amongst his people(OK OK ILL MAKE A POST ABOUT THIS LATER OK?) Anyways, he sees this and reassures Zelda that he is in no way pressuring her into this power at all. And here's the wholesome part.....ok remember how Rauru's mother would call him sweet dove? Well.....IN THIS CUTSCENE HE CALLS ZELDA SWEET DOVE!! For example it could be something like "Zelda, you are already doing so much for your people. You carry the world on your shoulders and I know you strive to work hard, but just know that you are doing enough.....my sweet dove." Zelda would get curious as to why he called her sweet dove and he explains that Urbosa already gave you the title little bird and he wouldn't take it away. He explains to her that his mother called him that and how he sees himself through Zelda. So naturally, he called her sweet dove. AND OMG OMG YOU GUYS THAT WOULD BE HIS TERM OF ENDEARMENT TOWARDS ZELDA AND COULD YOU IMAGINE IF THEY MADE ANOTHER HYRULE WARRIORS GAME BASED ON TOTK HE WOULD CALL HER THAT IN THAT GAME AS WELL?!?!?!?! Ugh look this may be a bit copy paste from Urbosa but IDC cause Zelda has never had stable parental figures in her life and Rauru has been a better father to Zelda than Rhoam was. Basically sweet dove would be the fatherly version of little bird ok???? Lol ok yall thank you for coming to my Ted talk. If you made it this far which I know this is long but if you did, thank you. I hope in every ore you break in TOTK will be a diamond and you find the best weapons in the depths lol.

[timegears-moved]

would you tell me some about revali... i ve never played zelda but characters who are arrogant is my favorite in the world

oh my god you have opened the floodgates

so for context: in botw there are these four machines called the divine beasts that are each piloted by a member of the four non-hylian races in hyrule (those being the rito, zora, gerudo and gorons). the job of the divine beasts is to aid in the defeat of the big evil of the game calamity ganon and the pilots, along with the hylian hero that carries the master sword (link obviously) are called champions. revali is the rito champion of the bird-like divine beast called vah medoh.

revali is a really abrasive character with a chip on his shoulder. he's always bitching about something. he's also an exceptionally skilled archer and managed to develop his own technique called revali's gale, which allows him to create an undraft, something that no other rito was able to do. he was the top dog in rito village so it was obvious that zelda was gonna choose him to be a champion.

and then he meets the other champions. all of them come from a high-ranking lineage and have a natural born gift. link is the son of a royal knight and the goddess' chosen hero, mipha is the zora princess with the ability to heal, daruk is leader of the gorons and is able to create a defensive shield out of nothing, urbosa is the chief of the gerudo and can summon lightning and zelda, while not considered to be a champion herself, is still important to their group as she's the hylian princess and has the powers of the goddess (due to reincarnation as told in skyward sword). so when you're suddenly surrounded by people who are naturally gifted without having needed to put in the same amount of work you did, you would start to feel a little bit bitter and insecure too right? the only exception is zelda, who is struggling to awaken her sealing powers.

he has a particularly nasty attitude towards link, as he gets to play the leading role in the calamity's defeat and revali is jealous of that fact, but he also can't deny that link is a very skilled swordsman. he tries to antagonize link and get a reaction out of him in hopes of forming a rivalry, so that he can at least be assured that link views him as an equal. however link doesn't respond to his taunts. it's established that in botw the reason why link is selectively mute is because it's how he's coping with pressure of being the chosen hero and saving the lives of everyone in the kingdom. link never asked for this role and i'm sure he would gladly pass the main spotlight onto revali if he could. revali doesn't know this about link though and takes his lack of reaction as a rejection. that he isn't good enough to stand on equal ground as him, which is a massive blow to revali's pride.

revali and zelda are also fun parallels in this regard. both have had to put more work into their skills than the others and still feel underappreciated, and both envy link because of his skills and the praise he's earning (which, again, is much to the chagrin of link himself as he doesn't want this). link and zelda eventually do become close friends though and it's heavily implied that it's zelda's love for link (regardless of if you view it as romantic or platonic) that finally awakens her powers. zelda becoming friends with link is how we find out about his anxiety and selective muteness.

okay back to revali now: he dies from the calamity lol. but his death seems to humble him a little bit? like his spirit is still trapped inside medoh and when link, after spending a century in a restoration chamber and losing his memories, comes to free the divine beast, revali is a lot less bitchy. his dialogue to link while he's on medoh is playful, he outwardly expresses concern for him if he gets injured in the fight with windblight ganon, and at the end of it all he can admit with a smile on his face that link was the better hero afterall. AND I NEED TO RANT ABOUT HOW THE ENGLISH DUB BUTCHERED IT because in english revali says that link was lucky but in the japanese version he actually does praise link genuinely. so the dub just makes his compliments come across as shallow and i hate it.

revali is also just??? really funny?????? his diary reveals a lot of depth about him. for starters he writes pages and pages about how much he "hates" link and how he can't stand him and how much he wants him to notice him and pay attention to him and "god i can't stop thinking about link that nefarious knight is driving me insane with how gorgeous he is he's clearly being beautiful to rub it in my face and he keeps making my heart race. with rage. because i fucking hate him." he also complains about how pompous the hylian champion ceremony is and that it's completely unnecessary (he does like the scarf though). and he's absolutely adamant that "the diary of revali, a rito legend" was NOT written by him do not believe anybody that says otherwise. and on a softer note he does express his sympathy for zelda and her struggles with controlling her powers in his diary, because he really does get it.

hopefully that was comprehensible i'm bad at articulating my thoughts in a cohesive manner. anyway here's some of my fav images of him

[rotisseries]

do you want to ramble about botw and totk?

this got long

YESSSSSS OK SO. botw zelda. I'm starting this off with a real attention grabber for you she's strangers coded to me. anyway. plotline of botw. the last time this hyrule has had a ganon encounter was 10k years ago. hyrule's whole thing is that the legend of the knight and the princess and the evil is a legend that has been passed down for generations, (sidenote I kind of hold the fun little headcanon that each zelda game is its own version of the same folktale, as opposed to being part of a real linear history, because frankly I know the devs don't actually care about the canonical timeline and I think some fans care too much. timeline is still fun though) so as you can imagine, 10k years, the current hyrule of botw is VERY divorced from its history, that's a pretty large part of botw in general, reconciling with the past. anyway the sheer lack of knowledge about the legend and the goddess power and anything related to it is making things very difficult for zelda. they have reason to believe that they're gonna have another ganon encounter soon, they've uncovered all these ancient robots and mechas that were used in the last battle, they're assembling a team of pilots for the mechas, they've gotten the current wielder of the master sword to protect the princess (link and zelda are like. 16/17 for the duration of the plot but link got the master sword at like 12. fucked up) and zelda is being expected to access her divine power, she can't. she doesn't know how, and her mother died when she was 6 (she didn't cry at the funeral. fucked) so she can't go to her for guidance, and her father is having her go to, and has been having her do this for years now, to sacred spring after sacred spring to pray in the hopes of accessing it. so she's dealing with a lot of pressure, and she just wants to work on the robots she is such a scientific mind its the cutest, zelink infodumping scenes my beloved, but she's also really focused on the ancient tech cause it's the only way she can think of to help, and her dad just gets more mad (her dad is such a shitbag. at some point he tells her she's the heir to a throne of nothing but failure. asswipe) about it cause he thinks she's not focusing enough on getting her powers so she feels powerless she feels like a failure and when link gets assigned to protect her it causes a lot of initial dislike for him because, to her, he's this embodiment of destined perfection she can't reach. he has the master sword he's their most skilled and youngest swordsman she's just a failure she's convinced he must hate her. he must think she's useless. and link won't communicate with her (this is the first zelda game with voiced lines and so therefore the first one where they give a canonical reason he doesn't say anything in cutscenes. it's because of the endless amount of pressure he's under, he feels like he has to be the perfect stoic swordsman. I could kill myself) so it's not really helping. eventually he saves her life from some yiga clan grunts and the yiga clan are basically evil ninjas and they grow to be friends, she confides in him in cutscenes, she has a diary you can find that implies he confided in her off screen, fun stuff, but she's not any closer to getting her power. then, on her 17th birthday, she goes up to the spring of wisdom to pray, (yes there are two others they are the springs of power and courage) because that's the hyrulean age of majority and adults are the only ones allowed to go up the mountain to the spring, and she has a feeling it's the last time. it will work, or it won't. they come down the mountain to where the champions are waiting (the champions are the aforementioned mecha pilots and I haven't really talked about them but they're all really good characters I love them also totk has a second gen of champions basically that are called the sages and I like the sages but I still prefer the champions I found out at some point not everyone feels the same way which. I genuinely don't get. but I'm gonna shut up about that now) and it hasn't worked. zelda doesn't have her power.

they're in the middle of comforting her, they get cut off by this horrible earthquake, they look towards the castle, and there’s this swirling mass over the castle, ganon is attacking. the champions rush to their mechas, and link and zelda run. the number one priority is to keep zelda alive. they head for hateno fort. (yes as in hateno the town with the house in totk. you can buy the house in botw and there’s a theory it was link's childhood home) they possibly went to the castle first and found out exactly what happened though, because on the way to hateno, zelda has a breakdown, screaming and crying about how everyone is dead and its all her fault, and they ARE dead. everyone at the castle is definitely dead, but ganon also managed to posses every single one of the hundreds of robots they had, AND had put evil blights in the mechas to ambush the champions, and the robots are wreaking havoc and the champions die in a losing battle in what was supposed to be their weapons of war. zelda and link make it to the field outside hateno, but there’s still robots everywhere, and link is on his last legs protecting zelda. he's about to get shot, and then she pushes him out of the way and finally has her divine power, she shuts down all the robots, and then turns to where link has collapsed. he dies in her arms. he gets taken to this shrine of resurrection to be healed until he can fight again, and zelda heads to the castle to hold ganon off until link is ready. she waits for 100 years.

100 years goes by, link wakes up an amnesiac, has to be given the gist of it, and then you wander around hyrule finding out all that ^ through various recovered memories (there’s a similar game mechanic in totk but it doesn't work as well imo bc in botw you can discover them at random and nothing bad happens, you already know how this story ends, whereas in totk it DOES spoil shit) you have to go free each of the mechas from the evil blights (which btw have similar weapons and fighting styles as the champions but otherwise bear no similarities and I just think it would've been fucked if they looked like the possessed bodies of the champions idk) and then you gotta go save zelda from the castle. you and her end ganon, it's an emotional meeting, the ghosts you were haunted by fade, and then the two of them leave, presumably to rebuild hyrule. so basically botw is about reconciling with the past, looking to it for guidance and forgiving yourself for the failures but moving on in spite of it, and I'm fucking normal

and then totk. so. link and zelda are investigating ruins under the castle cause weird shit has been happening lately, gross magic pouring out and making people sick. and then they get really deep, and find the decimated corpse of ganon, the man, being held by a magical hand. the magic is coming from him. ganon wakes up when they get in there, goes to attack them with the magic, link gets his arm fucked up and also the master sword this will be relevant later, and zelda falls down into this pit, link jumps after her, but he's saved by the aforementioned magic hand, he loses zelda. they're reaching for each other. also totk takes place like 6ish years after botw that's his common law wife of 6 years. and they lost each other once already for 100 years. oh god I'm so upset. anyway then the whole plot, is trying to find zelda. you wake up on some sky islands there are sky islands, your arm is now replaced with the magic arm, and the broken master sword has to be put in this mysterious glowing golden light. you go around you get help from your friends, who get dubbed the sages, and you discover, through a game mechanism similar to the lost memories botw quest, that zelda fell back in time. zelda has light powers as a general thing that's usually her power, in some games she also has prophetic visions, and in totk, you find out she also has time powers in her ancestry, and she accidentally sent herself back in time. at least 10k years most likely more. and she's hanging out with her ancestors, the first king and queen of hyrule. (timeline wise they are not actually the first king and queen of hyrule but whatever) the king is an anthropomorphic llama?? from the sky islands. zelda franchise tends to have furry species btw. anyway ganondorf is a threat back then too and zelda has to help the king and queen come up with a plan to defeat him it's a really fun journey she gets a lot of healing to that self esteem that her dad fucked up BUT ANYWAY. they realize they won't be able to permanently get rid of ganon and zelda has unbelievable amounts of faith in link and says that if they can contain ganon for now you can take care of it in the future, the king ends up having to sacrifice himself, and his arm, to keep ganon contained. and zelda still has no way back home to her time. then she sees this glowing golden light, and whoo! there's the master sword! it's still fucked up though. the only way to fix the sword is through bathing it in sacred power, and it's REALLY damaged, and zelda STILL HAS NO WAY HOME. so she turns herself into a dragon. there's these special stones that amplify magical power, she has one, and swallowing it turns you into an immortal dragon, at the cost of losing yourself. she holds the sword to herself, and it's going to bathe in her sacred power for 10k years or more. at the point you find out about this it's so fucked up cause you come out of the cutscene and you're surrounded by silent princess flowers and oh my god I haven't even explained the silent princess symbolism to you oh my god that's a whole other thing, anyway and dragon zelda is flying above you and at this point you've seen her around the map several other times and there were 3 other dragons in botw so you were kinda confused where this one came from but it was cool and it's just. ugh it's so fucked up. I kinda guessed the possibility early I just didn't want to acknowledge it. anyway then you get the sword from dragon zelda and it is stuck in her forehead poor baby and the sword claim scene is GORGEOUS and to the best of your knowledge and link's knowledge zelda is gone forever, and she did this for you. IT'S SO FUCKEDDDD and then when you get to fighting ganon he eventually turns himself into a dragon and dragon zelda comes to help you battle it out with dragon ganon and when you finally kill him the spirits? of zelda's ancestors show up, I think via the magical hand, and the one with time powers reverse both link's arm damage and zelda's draconification, and then you're both falling, and he has to catch her.

and it mirrors the last time she fell, when he lost her, and this time he catches her, and he hugs her to him, and they fall into a pond, and he carries her out and she wakes up and looks at him and says that she was in a deep sleep and woke up when she felt a warm loving embrace and "oh link! I'm home" and AUGHHHHHHGH SHE HAD SO MUCH FAITH IN HIM THEY'RE SO IN LOVE I'M GONNA THROW UP.

anyway so totk continues botw's themes of contending with the past and moving past old failures and making things right, but it also is really good as a sequel to botw in that botw is a very lonesome journey, and everything about totk emphasizes that you are no longer alone. you have friends to help you, it's no longer you alone in world you don't recognize that doesn't remember you, it's you having help. you don’t need to do it alone anymore. and it's just. UGHHHH. I like botw better than totk I think totk's story feels a bit lacking at times? but I think overall it works really well as a sequel in continuing and working with the themes that botw has

[magaprima]

I am here writing, yet again, about what a big freaking deal the Lilith childbirth scene was, on like a spiritual and emotional and physical scale. 

I mean this was a spell put on her by two plague kings and a prince of Hell, all working together to use old magics, which we know are the most powerful, to do something that was intended to rip Lilith’s insides apart, to cause such damage that even the Mother of Demons couldn’t survive it (and, significantly, a Plague King couldn’t survive it when the coven turns the curse back on them). And yet the witches of the Order of Hecate were not only able to counter it, to save Lilith’s life and her son’s, but they were able to take that curse and return it right back to sender, violently killing one of the demon kings responsible. That really is a marker of just how fucking strong the coven was becoming under the guidance and gift of Hecate. Zelda was leading one powerful coven. 

And then Lilith is not someone who readily seeks help; experiences have taught her to be incredibly self-reliant, even problematically so, and so coming to Zelda for help because she knew the Spellman sisters were the only witch-midwives who could save her is a big deal in that it was Lilith having to choose to not only show vulnerability but to ask for help, to be reliant on someone else, and put her trust in someone else. And not only did that trust pay off, but it’s returned and maintained; they wish to keep her and Adam safe, they offer her a home without her even having to ask. 

Plus there’s the fact that the way they delivered the baby was for every witch, every woman, in the coven, to take on some of Lilith’s pain and suffering themselves so that she could survive it. This is her first experience of anyone ever doing something like that, of not only offering help but selflessly suffering themselves in order to help her, which is a big, fucking breakthrough moment for her and is, I think, part of the reason why she chooses to stay long-term (16 years to be exact) and why she does befriend the witches there, and why we hear of all the coven getting to dote on Adam, and the way Lilith becomes close with both Spellman sisters, but especially Hilda, because they broke down that defensive survivalist untrusting barrier with their utterly selfless help. And then that very act involved magically bonding them all, they have ALL experienced Adam’s birth very literally (and childbirth is a very big deal, emotionally and physically altering, and for them to all have a part in it is no small thing), which binds them all together both magically and emotionally. You can’t shake that or undo it; that’s etched into their very spirits, and for someone like Lilith who has been around for thousands of years, that’s an incredibly big and significant deal. 

It’s why I believe Lilith becomes a part of the coven that night; it might not be stated officially, but it’s implied, and it’s shown in their behaviour (both Lilith and the coven’s. Like no one lives at the Academy except for members of the coven), and she clearly has had Hecate watching over, helping-- ‘blessing’ the birth as Zelda stated. It’s also why I believe Adam is a child of the coven, completely, and that he has a direct connection to Hecate that would, as he got older, possibly come into conflict with his infernal heritage, in the same way Sabrina’s mortal side came into conflict with hers. Which is a nice little parallel to his sister. 

[crystal-dragon-of-dreams]

Happy New Years! Thank you for making this! This is a great resource but I did notice a few labeling mistakes. Hope you don't mind corrections for some of them:

The seeds bag: it appears the lighter blue seeds within the bag are the gale seeds, while the pegasus seed is the feather-shaped one shown on the ground, which is noticeably darker. The Bombs Bag: I can see why this could be confusing, but it's more likely to be the bombs, as bomb flowers to have this flowery look (like a leafy stem shown here), and they do appear to be the right size. I don't believe they're the Big Maku Seeds as they're grown with a very specific purpose and have special markings.

Legend's Power Gloves: That is technically the upgraded Titan's Mitts, as they are golden rather than silver. Legend's hookshot: That's definitely a hookshot, although it being from ALTTP or LA is a good question, as they do share the same design. Would have leaned it more into ALTTP given LA's dream world situation, but Jojo has also shown us LA-exclusive items (which may or may not be replicas). This one is a toss up.

The ??? Bag: That is Hyrule's P bag from Zelda 2. You can see the P on the label.

Moosh's Flute: It could arguably belong to any of the companions, depending on how Jojo ends up designing them individually. The games show the difference by changing the color representing the companion, and the light beige color could make it Ricky's flute, for example. For now I'd label it "Companion's Flute" until confirmed otherwise. The shovel: This one is a toss up between being Four's or Legend's shovel, as it also happens to be between Legend's items (and goddesses know how many shovels Legend has). Unfortunately I do not have a suggestion for this one until we see it being used. Four's Magic Hammer & Ice Rod: Four doesn't a any Ice Rod in any of the games, and instead could be the Magic Rod from Zelda 1 and the design of the Hammer is implied be Hyrule's Hammer as shown in the "Miss Her" comic. Everything else, as far as I can tell, does appear to be accurate! I definitely do imagine this has taken a lot of work to make it, so I do thank you once again for making it in the first place. I hope this helps to make it more accurate and be the best resource it can be!

Alrighty! Credit where credit is due; This is @linkeduniverse 's art with a link to the original piece, and this whole thing was originally @triforce-of-mischief 's idea, listing which items belonged to which Link, etc etc. SO! if u like this, a good chunk of the inspiration came from her, so show them some love loll

I also made a spreadsheet- https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1MDGRXQAUfzvoCEysxkM7cV831yj9QvbTyyiS9DX_mCc/

I'm gonna go celebrate NewYear's now jfkldsjfklsds

[farons-kokiri]

I have a theory and I need to get this out there and idk how much sense this will make by the end but I don't think Ravio was ever meant to be courageous. I don't think Hilda was ever meant to be wise. Lorule has been without a triforce for so long the realm is literally crumbling, so it might be logical to assume they've lost their knowledge of their own triforce to time as well.

I think Lorule's triforce placement isnt the same as Hyrule and even if Hilda succeeded in stealing Hyrule's triforce, it wouldn't work because she assumed the two realms are the same.

Hilda is meant to bear the triforce of courage. How else would you explain her lying to Link and Zelda's faces to steal their triforces, then still trying to beat Link's out of him after she was betrayed by Yuga? Her plan to steal Hyrule's triforce wasn't wise and her failure to do so is a sign that she lacks wisdom, but the plan itself took a hefty amount of bravery to do. She was determined to succeed even if it wasn't the smartest thing to do, which is a hallmark trait of Link's.

Ravio in contrast is the triforce of power. The guy literally slipped and hopped dimensions and is implied to be magically gifted in some regard. Link has such a magical deficit he has to accumulate items in every game in order to progress through dungeons and is only able to get said items because he's brave enough to face those challenges. Which means, if Ravio is a self admitted coward, he couldn't have dungeon crawled to get the various things he uses. Or perhaps going through a dungeon isn't hard for him at all because of his natural power, so he almost collects these things, treating it like finding a cool rock on the ground.

This leaves Yuga as the triforce of wisdom, which I think is fairly self explanatory. He deceives Hilda through and through, and plots to betray her after she's already stolen Zelda's triforce. That's not to say Ganon isn't capable of scheming because he definitely is but Hylia/Zelda's foresight is like playing a game of 5d chess against an AI.

Also, this isn't to say that Yuga is a god reborn like Zelda is, or that Hilda is actually supposed to be the hero, I'm just theorizing that their literal triforce attributes are shuffled around. Hilda is still part of Lorule's theoretical divine based bloodline of royals, Ravio is her hero, etc. Hilda's ancestor(s), the ones who destroyed Lorule's triforce, would have had courage but not wisdom in this theory which may explain why they decided to destroy it in the first place. They lacked the wisdom to know it would eventually destroy the realm, but bravely took that chance in order to keep it from being abused. I'm sure there's some holes in this theory but honestly it's been bugging me for a while.

[legendofzoodles]

LOZ Character Analysis/Rant

Hero of the Wild 2 || The Silent Princess

Link is relatively emotionally intelligent. 

He must have been- at least partly- aware of how uneasy his stoic presence made the Princess. But he either didn’t see it as such a big deal or simply didn’t have the energy to care. 

Eventually he would grow to care a lot about her, as she did him. 

~~~

Strangers to awkward colleagues

“Tomorrow my father is assigning HIM as my appointed knight...”

First impressions would have been respect and indifference, because they would have been strangers who had only heard things about the other before Link became her appointed knight. As suggested by this quote, Zelda probably did not know Link personally before he was promoted to the position of her personal knight. The ‘HIM’ shows that she has heard about him (maybe her father has mentioned him a lot at the dinner table and has compared him to her numerous times- calling him an example to follow etc.) and has already formed this image of him being a perfect fit for his role. It comes of as negative too, meaning that she’s disliked him long before she’s even met him.

I wonder if other members of the Royal court feel that way about him too.

Link’s promotion must have occurred just under a year before the Calamity. This would give him and Zelda enough time to go through the motions of being strangers to awkward work colleagues to eventually friends and close confidants. That sort of development takes time, especially considering how guarded the two were and how much Zelda disliked Link before the Yiga incident. 

Would Link, like the rest of the Royal Court, look down on Zelda for not focusing on her duty and not being able to use her sealing power? Would he resent Zelda for her lack of success in training? 

No, not at all. They’re are in the same boat.

Officially, the King ordered him to be her appointed knight, but I can’t help but theorize that Link’s real job was to essentially keep tabs on Zelda and inform her father of what she was up to, as well as protect her. This would explain the strange way he’s always following her around. Even though the King is aware of Zelda shulking off her divine responsibilities to do science stuff, he may not know the extent of it. Of course, since there’s no big scene where the King forbides Zelda from doing Sheikah stuff (yet), it can be assumed that Link didn’t snitch on Zelda, and kept quiet about her activities. 

Her attitude to the whole destiny thing probably made sense to him. She can’t unlock her powers, so she’s trying her best to do what she can in the areas she excels. Her dedication to doing what she can would’ve been admirable to him. Also, it is implied in Zelda’s diary that Link has failed and gotten frustrated before; he knows those feelings well and probably sticks around not just as a part of his job but also to support the princess. Be there for her on hand when she needs his help.

If you read part 1 then this can be linked to the night his parents were slaughtered during a blood moon and the fact that his inadequacy/ fear meant he failed to save them. Any frustrations could arise from regretting taking things easy in the years after, before he pulled the Master Sword.

Although to Zelda, who has no idea what lies under the surface, this would come off as some silent dude who follows her everywhere, almost like a stalker, and is completely unreadable. And she believes that he detests her because of her incompetence at filling out her role. Link is probably aware that him following her around might be stifling and unnerving for her seeing as how he’s making no attempt to break the ice, but beyond that is ignorant of what lies under surface of her perfect princess demeanour.

Yikes, look at the distance between them in that cutscene. And you can’t just say that he’s making sure she’s safe or being protective of her- there’s no reason for him to lag that far behind. There can’t even be the excuse of him being respectful of royal etiquette, because this is the same guy who has no problem with hoping on the tables of shopkeepers. 

To be fair, Link wouldn’t be too fussed about Zelda and her feelings because he’s got his own shit to deal with. He’s got to balance his public image, daily training, the weight of great expectations, staying in the king’s favour and proving himself to those who don’t believe in his skill. He’d be more focused on perfecting his craft and making sure he’s properly prepared to for the battle to come.

“[...] he seemed confused by my anger.” (shrine memory)

From this quote from the princess, we can see that Link was genuinely taken aback by her outburst, during the shrine cutscene where she yells ‘at him without restraint’. Maybe he was confused because he believed that Zelda at least tolerated his presence. Or perhaps he was shocked that the Zelda could shout like that since in public she had presented herself as quiet and calm- the perfect royal daughter. 

Also, whether he knew her anger was directed at him due to jealousy or thought that she was just lashing out, is up to the player to decide. I think it’s the latter, because he’d have no reason to think that she hated him. From his perspective he’s done nothing wrong (and he hasn’t, apart from the crime of merely existing I guess) and has just been following orders. Regardless of which of these interpretations you choose, what remains consistent is that he wouldn’t yet clock that this would stem from her worries and insecurities.

To sum up that part of their relationship: both were more concentrated on themselves than the other, and where Link was open to supporting Zelda, the princess in question wanted nothing to do with him.

Awkward colleagues to close friends

Link saves Zelda from the yiga soldiers it’s literally his job. Personally, I don’t know why it was some great eye opener to her, seeing as how the alternative for not doing what he did would be letting her die, which would doom the kingdom. Surely, she is aware that she’s invaluable right? 

That being said, it was probably the sheer ferocity and speed at which he came to her side that made her start warming to him. Maybe she didn’t expect him to be so quick. Ooh, perhaps after the tussle, instead of scolding her for running off on her own/giving her the cold shoulder, he was patient and attentive (asking if she was hurt and stuff). She anticipated an argument but instead received kindness. 

From there they finally start moving towards a friendship. As stated in her diary, Zelda essentially makes all the first moves to get him to open up. This suggests that he still felt the need to keep up that persona around her. Maybe he felt that by projecting strength it’d be inspiring for her or be like a pillar of stability for her. That or he didn’t see the yiga incident as anything special and it was just business as usual until she suddenly started being friendly towards him- and that initially caught him off guard. Could be both. 

However, she eventually got him to open up and it’s a good thing that she did. Considering how much he ends up confiding in her, it’s clear he needed someone to talk to and with them sharing a destiny, she’s in the perfect position to understand him. 

The fact that she’s able to say, “[...] he’s quite a glutton,” means that they’ve eaten together which shows their building trust and comfort. I suppose they didn’t take meals together before Zelda found this out. It also shows that Link isn’t afraid to be himself when he’s eating- i.e. stuffing his face like the eating animation in BoTW (which is adorable, who wouldn’t find that endearing?). I like to think that since drawing the sword, Link has always eaten alone, had it been the only time he could let loose. And at this point, was comfortable with letting the princess see that side of him.

By taking more of an interest in his  life, Zelda prompts Link to take more of an interest in her life. He becomes more involved in her struggles and empathizes with her. Like the memory cutscene where she breaks down while praying at the Spring of Power. You can just about see Link turn his head in her direction to listen in better or maybe gauge her body language. By now he cares, he doesn’t want to see her suffer and he probably wishes he could do more than just stand there. He turns around to face her at the end after she says, “What’s wrong with me?”, which is the natural reaction to hearing someone who’s in pain. 

Bet he gives her a big hug and assures her it’s not her fault. I would if I were him. I don’t think he’d blame Hylia or hate her or anything like that. Can’t be her fault, after all the Goddess wouldn’t allow the destruction of her people and purposefully withhold the sacred power from Zelda. It has to be Zelda’s fault. 

This isn’t to throw shade, it makes her really relatable to me. She understands that she has a role to play and knows how important it is, but her heart isn’t in it. She doesn’t want to play part she’s given and thus can’t unlock it. It’s interesting that Flora is the only Zelda in the entire series to not embrace her destiny, the fact that she runs away from her duties shows a lack of wisdom. 

He begins to realise that the burden she carries is just as heavy as his, which recontectualises (but doesn’t excuse) her previous treatment of him (seriously, I hope she apologised for being so cold). He would would finally make him see how poorly her father has been treating her- not that he’d have been blind to it, just ignorant and therefore uncaring (or maybe he was too blinded by respect). 

Take the memory cutscene where the King finally puts his foot down and demands that Zelda focus all her time and energy on her Goddess training (maybe he realised that Link was feeding him false information and found out how much time Zelda was actually spending on the Sheikah tech). Link probably wanted to interject and defend Zelda, and I feel like the only reasons he didn’t were because he would get in more trouble with the King- which would lead to a whole slew of problems- and because he kind of agreed with him.

Sorry, I know I just said that Link didn’t hold anything against Zelda at all...but spending months going along with her scientist escapades would have become irritating at some point (btw he can sympathise with her while also feeling a little annoyed, those aren’t mutually exclusive). He respects her resolve to contribute to the cause, but a small part of him must feel annoyed that she can’t unlock the power and runs away from that responsibility.

Not unlocking her powers in time simply wasn’t an option.

Her constant travelling would also cut into his training time, giving him less time to focus on honing his techniques and learning to use the sword better. Remember, Link doesn’t have a mentor that can specifically help him understand the Master Sword, he’s left to figure it out on his own, and by being glued to Zelda, he doesn’t have the breathing space to do that. 

Remember the memory cutscene where Link is training in the rain and Zelda is commenting on his career path? Why do you think they are in that situation to begin with? Well possibly, Zelda went out to do field work for research, ran out of time and thus the two got caught in the rain. This would’ve eaten into Link’s training time, so he decided to risk a cold and train anyway than skip out. He even keeps swinging his sword even when the princess is talking to him (which would be disrespectful, but again shows how comfortable they are with each other now), only stopping when she starts projecting and relating his situation to hers. I know she was upset in that scene, but her way or opening up just kind of felt like a jab at Link for so easily following his father’s path. Which shows a bit of nuance in their dynamic, even though they are friendly and close now, there’s still a bit of conflict: Link feels frustrated that Zelda is holding him and the kingdom back and she still can’t shake the jealousy and inadequacy she feels because of him. 

Link looks like he’s smiling here, and just look at how attentively he’s listening to her. Ahh so cute!

The duo’s ride to Sanidin Park doesn’t seem to be mission based and instead seems like just a fun little outing for the two. Zelda remarks that Link gave her horse tips, again showing their friendship, and I like to think that it was in retaliation of her hammering biology knowledge into him during their countless field trips. Link did take an interest in her pseudo-lectures. As shown in the silent princess memory cutscene, where he’s right next to her soaking up the information rather than going off to do something else or keeping watch from a distance. 

They probably took horse-riding trips like these quite often to take their minds off things, the closer they got to the arrival of the Calamity. I like to think they were Link’s idea.

Once they became friends they clearly enjoyed each other’s company. Zelda felt close enough to the point where she fell in love with Link (rip Kass’ mentor) and on Link’s end...it’s again up to the player! 

Whether or not you ship Zelink is up to you. There are pieces in place like Link’s Sheikah slate entries (in the Japanese version the info dump for main quests and side quests are written in first person from Link’s POV like diary entries, and there’s a lot about Link’s character you can decypher from those texts) and the Silent Princess symbolism that can support the ship if you choose to read into it that way.

As for me...? I don’t really ship Zelink (tbh I don’t ship any rendition). Instead, I see a strong yet flawed friendship, full of conflict, changes and areas to develop. The fanart do be super cute though.

~~~

Thanks for reading! If you have any questions or want to discuss more then feel free to comment! :)

Part 1

Masterlist

[pastelsandpining]

Whumptober Day 3

sticks and stones may break my bones but...

taunting | insults | “who did this to you?”

kingdom come - corrupt!zelda au part 2 | part 1 | part 3

warnings: gaslighting, manipulation, death mention, cursing, survivor’s guilt

--------------------

From what little he could remember, Princess Zelda was nothing short of lovely. She was the sort of kind that came from a genuine place, unlike the fake kind that so many had offered him because he was the one burdened with the sword. Even when she was mean to him in the beginning, he could see the good in her heart, the passion in her voice, the brilliance in her mind. She was a girl willing to do anything for her kingdom and for people who didn’t even bother believing in her. She was so painfully human beneath the crown and the gods and the sealing power that it was impossible not to like her. The only thing she wanted above all else was to save her people.

And now, a century later, she was nothing short of cruel. 

For days, Link could not go outside of the Sanctum for fear of Zelda setting the Calamity loose on him. On Hyrule. 

“You can go,” she’d told him from her seat in the throne, looking every bit the queen she was always meant to be, “but he will follow you, and wouldn’t it be a shame if the Calamity was brought about by the very hero destined to slay it?”

And when she wasn’t in the throne, gazing out at her kingdom with blank eyes, she was toying with him in whatever means she saw fit. She’d long since made him discard the Champion’s Tunic in favor of the Royal Guard’s Uniform, telling him she’d always preferred how formal he looked in it. It disgusted him after that and he fought tooth and nail to keep the last piece of his Zelda he had left, because this was not her. 

“How loyal you are to a girl you remember so little about,” she said, tangling her fingers into his hair. He’d shoved her hand away from him and replied, for the first time since his imprisonment began, “You know nothing about me.”

Zelda smiled then, gripping his chin with enough force to dig her nails into his cheeks, and answered him very simply, “Oh, Link, I know everything about you.”

The worst part was that there was no malice to her. Her skin was pale and soft and did not hurt to touch, and her eyes were green and familiar with no trace of the pink or orange Calamity Ganon made him so familiar with. She was completely, wholly herself, and not herself at all. 

She was not terrible to him, either. She took caution not to hurt him, even when her grip became too tight or her nails caught his skin. It was the things she said, the empty gaze behind her eyes, the twisted smile that made her so unlike the Zelda he hoped to find. He almost rathered she bite him with teeth instead of words, hurt him physically instead of where she knew it would hit closest to home. 

Something had made her particularly agitated today. He didn’t care to know what. As long as she stayed far from him, he could continue his brainstorming of just what he had to do to get out of here without the Calamity or Zelda following him. The Calamity did not sleep. Neither did he–not peacefully, at least. He wondered if it was the same for her, then decided he did not care. Zelda didn’t stay in the Sanctum. Hylia knew where she went, but she would always return to torment him further, looking so much like the girl he’d once worn his heart on his sleeve for. It was painful, and he would be ever frustrated by his inability to grasp the stoic mask he’d mastered all those years ago. Something would always slip. She would always get him, whether it be a flicker of his eyes, a tug of his mouth, a twitch of his hands. She did know him, far better than he wanted to admit, and he needed to get out of there before she learned how to use that against him.

“Link,” she called out, her voice soft enough to float to him in the gentle breeze. “Come here, please.”

He did not move. He turned his back to her instead, continuing his work of cleaning the Master Sword. It wasn’t dirty by any means, but it gave him something to do and he quite liked the way Calamity Ganon reeled back at the sight of it glowing in his hands. 

“Link,” she repeated. He could hear the edge of growing annoyance this time. Link spared her a glance of his eyes in acknowledgement, but nothing more. Then she was in front of him, pulling the sword forcefully from his grasp and holding it out of his reach. “It goes against conduct to be so rude to the princess. Shouldn’t you know that? You’re supposed to serve. Answer when you’re called like the loyal little dog you used to be.”

“You’re not her,” he argued simply. Her laugh was deranged, bitter, and she used the tip of the sword to lift his chin, forcing him to meet her eyes.

“You don’t even remember her,” Zelda taunted, so bitterly cruel, and it twisted his heart just as it always did. “What did she do for you, Link? Left you pictures? Thirteen measly little shots of Hyrule, and they were all about her, weren’t they? So much for the Champions.”

Link pursed his lips in stubborn silence. He would give her no response, no satisfaction, but her eyes glittered as if he already had. He hated when she talked like that, because it solidified that she was not his Zelda, and stoked the flames of the fiery fear that she was long gone before he could ever get to her.

“You’re not the girl I died for,” he spat at last, leaning away from the sword before she could use it to impale him. He wanted a rise from her, to affect her in the way she was affecting him, but as soon as the words left his lips, he wished they hadn’t. Something in her eyes darkened and she tilted her head, regarding him with a frown.

“No,” she agreed quietly. The way her lips curved up into a beautiful smile was cruel. “She died with you.”

With those simple words, she threw the sword onto the ground by his feet, discarding his heart along with it, and turned from him to walk away. The skirts of her blue dress trailed the floor behind her and the sense of anger, of guilt, that washed over him did not want to let her walk away from him. She shouldn’t be able to. She shouldn’t have the right to keep him here, to toy with him, because of an obligation he had a century ago. When he’d agreed to face the Calamity, to find her again and free her of her prison, it was not this Zelda he’d made that promise to. So he did not hold his tongue.

“Who did this to you?” he snapped, standing to follow her. She paused in her stride and he took the opportunity to grab her wrist, but she yanked it from his grasp and spun on him with a sea of anger in her eyes. “Tell me, Zelda.”

“You will know your place, soldier,” she ordered, her voice cold as her hand gripped his chin again. “You will be careful of your tone when questioning my authority.”

“Zelda,” he repeated, softer this time. “Please. You owe me this-” 

Her grip tightened, her nails digging into his cheeks, and he knew he’d greatly displeased her.

“I owe you nothing,” she said, but her grip loosened and she turned away again. 

“I came here for you,” Link replied, the growing desperation evident in his voice. “Everyone asked me to help you. You asked me to help you. And everything I’ve done– It was all for you, Zelda.”

“It seems I was wrong to call you a loyal dog.” She turned back to him, the smile on her face wicked. “Perhaps the more fitting term is bitch. I called, and you obeyed. But now, the little puppy wants to bite back.” 

She set her hands on his shoulders and shoved before he could do so much as back away. His knees hit the marble floor and he had to stick out a hand to catch himself.

“Your bite always was bigger than your bark,” she taunted, and her expression was suggestive. Whatever she was implying, he couldn’t remember it.

“You’re being cruel.”

“Do you want me to be cruel, Link?” A slender finger lifted his chin. “Because this is nothing.”

“I want to know who did this to you, because this is not the Zelda that I-���

“Remember? Pray, tell, what do you remember? I’m actually rather curious.”

“I remember a girl so bitterly human that she gave everything for her kingdom.”

“And look where that’s gotten me!” Zelda exclaimed, stepping back from him so she could turn away. Link took the opportunity to rise from his embarrassing station, his eyes ever studying the fallen princess before him. Her shoulders did not sit as high as they usually did. Something in his words had stung her. If she wasn’t so mean, maybe he would have apologized.

“Human. Tch. Is that what you see? Perhaps you fail to realize that humans are capable of terrible things. Did you know that, long before our time, the horrid Calamity you see before you was nothing more than a man?”

Link reeled back, looking at her through furrowed brows. 

“Something like that did not come from a man,” he argued–it couldn’t have–but Zelda did not look at him. In fact, she carried on as if she hadn’t heard him at all.

“A simple Gerudo chief, longing for nothing more than to help his people. A people that distrusted him. Hyrule distrusted him. Sentenced him to death because they couldn’t bear the thought of a man who wanted to use power to improve lives. No matter how genuine he was, it was never enough. The Calamity and I are quite alike in that way.”

Calamity Ganon had shuffled closer, bowing to the princess before it, and she extended a hand to run her fingers through the matted, wild mane of red hair on its head. Link wanted to pull her away, to convince her that she was not like that thing at all, but he was too rooted to his spot in surprise to make a move.

“Hyrule tried to have him killed,” she continued, her voice quiet and far away. “As it would turn out, it is not easy to kill someone who holds an ancient power of the gods. You know that already, don’t you, Hero?”

She turned her head, looking at him out of the corner of her eyes, and his breath caught. He shifted, the struggle to maintain his composure getting the best of him, and he took a step backwards. 

“When they could not kill him, Hyrule chose a different route. They took him beneath this very castle and brought forth the Sheikah to pry the energy out of his body. For lifetimes, we have been living off of a dying man’s life force. How else was the Calamity able to possess ancient technology so easily? It is no wonder that Ganondorf harbored enough hatred to transform into malice–into the beast you see now. And Hyrule would expect me to seal him away, bury our sins along with him for another ten thousand years.”

It was all too much to hear. Too much to take in. But Zelda turned to face him and was relentless in her story. She did not give him time to breathe, to process all she’d said, before she was speaking again, backing him into one of the Sanctum pillars. 

“I sat alone, for one hundred years, and the Calamity was my only company. I was surrounded by malice, by whispers of his hatred, echoing in my head until it was all I could hear and I couldn’t breathe, but it was too late for anyone to care because everyone I’d ever held dear to me was already dead by the time I thought about letting it consume me, too. And then, when I thought all hope was lost, when I spent years watching that stupid shrine on the hill, waiting and waiting for your body to show any sign of life, it started to speak to me. And it was sweet. It understood me. It understood how so many of my people doubted me, how I doubted myself. It helped me in those lonely years, Link. I was going mad.”

She brought a hand up to his face, holding his cheek so tenderly that he couldn’t help leaning into it. He could see, now, the tears glittering in her eyes, the pain in her expression. She was familiar, then–just the girl sobbing in his arms as the world burned all around them. 

“I watched you die,” she whispered out, rubbing her thumb over his skin. “How am I supposed to be alright after that?”

Her words wrenched his heart from his chest. How guilty he felt then, for failing her. For selfishly letting her hold him in those final moments. For making her watch as the breath left his body. He would never quite be able to forget the way she looked down at him in such horror. 

“I’m sorry,” he replied, quiet as the wind. For failing. For making her wait so long that she’d been driven mad. Her smile was soft, weak, but genuine. He wondered vaguely if, when he held her in those woods in the midst of the Calamity, he’d wanted to kiss her then, too.

“Do you know who decides right from wrong?” she asked softly. Link shook his head. “The side you’re on. My side has changed, because I’ve decided that I don’t want the help of gods who turned their back on me as I groveled at their feet for the salvation of my kingdom.”

“So you side with the being that brought it to its knees?” he argued, pulling his face away from her touch at last. He felt so empty without it.

“What choice did I have?” Zelda fired back, her voice raising as she crumbled into hysterics. “The Calamity brought down the strongest people I knew. I’m hardly a quarter of what you all were. I did what I could, I sealed it, and then I realized that it was right. Hyrule should be destroyed! And if you think you’re here to slay it, then I suppose you’d better shove your sacred sword through me, first.”

Link stepped backwards, hitting the pillar again, and he felt like crying. 

“I can’t seal the Calamity without you, Zelda,” he tried, reaching a hand for her. She swatted it away, fixing her once vulnerable gaze into an icy glare.

“Then you’re not sealing a thing. You asked who did this to me, but you fail to see the obvious. I did this to myself, Link. You have no idea what it was like.”

She turned away again, filling him with an overwhelming sense of panic. No, he couldn’t let her walk away. This conversation couldn’t be over. There had to be something he could do, something he could say, that would bring her back, keep her from the hands of the Calamity.

“Why do you keep me here?” he asked, stepping after her. “Why do you—“

“I should think that would be obvious,” Zelda replied, pausing to glance back at him. “I loved you, you know, and you’re here on your own accord. You could leave rather easily if you pleased, but you stay. Why? Is it out of fear that Ganon would follow you? No, I don’t think it is.”

Link frowned, feeling sick. He wanted more than anything to ask what she meant by that, to press her further, but she kept walking and only said,

“You should pick up your sword. Wouldn’t want to offend the Goddess.”

--------------------

masterlist | whumptober by day | whumptober by collection | original post

[aikoiya]

To start off, it really does take a bunch of effort to correct stuff publicly. But I really enjoy civilized debate! And even in cases where my perspective opponent isn't quite so understanding at the start, there have actually been times where what started off as an argument has actually ended quite well with no hard feelings.

Those are some of my favorite times. I think that part of the reason this can happen is due to my effort to be humble enough to admit when I'm wrong or have made a mistake, specifically while retaining a positive, upbeat attitude & a polite demeanor. And sometimes all it takes is clarifying what I mean.

At least, that's what I try to do anyway.

And I'm very glad that you're enjoying yourself as well!

---

Anyway, I agree that the reanimation probably isn't consensual.

From “I cannot do anything other than agree with you...” to “you described.”

While I can understand your thinking to a degree, the problem with basing morality upon individuals or cultures instead of an overall standard of right & wrong (if that is what you mean, of course) is that then you can theoretically get individuals & even entire societies who genuinely believe that it is entirely in their right to steal from, torture, rape, or kill others with the only reason being that they wanted to.

In my mind, it's important to set a standard of what is okay & what isn't.

If you don't do that, then this entire conversation is moot because if whether Ganondorf is evil or not or whether he committed evil acts or not, hinges upon individual morals, then someone could easily argue that his morals say that it's “perfectly fine” to raise the dead, with or without consent, & no one would be able to argue with it. And depending on the Gerudo of the time's own morals, so could basing them upon cultural morality.

“Sure, this could be the case. I admit it, it does not seem farfetched if one thinks he has purposely reanimated people without their consent and/or one goes with what the creators probably intended to imply. Though as I have described here and in the previous posts, one can interpret it another way without clashing with what we have been shown in-game, in my opinion at least.”

Could you please explain your thinking? What ways can this be interpreted?

From “On this, we may have different perspectives…” to “I'm not going to fault you for it.”

Again, I will try to keep things within BotW, TotK, & HW: AoC canon, but it will make my arguments difficult.

At the same time, it will likely also limit your own arguments as you also won't be able to use information from other games either.

“On this point of control I wish to point out Zelda's experience with her secret stone, of which she had no control of the first time she used it.”

Actually, you know what? You make a good point. He may well not have had control of it.

At the same time, do we know whether or not these things might be influenced by our subconscious?

And, do we even know if Zelda knew how to control such time abilities within the seal? For all we know, it could've been as simple as she sealed herself as well as Calamity Ganon.

And, I know that Ganondorf changed physically while being sealed by Rauru, but I very much think that there's a difference between the way that Zelda sealed the Calamity & the way that Rauru sealed Ganon & possibly even the monsters within the Shrines of Light.

I believe that I read somewhere that Rauru's Light powers worked by taking in Ganondorf's power & purifying it, then releasing it upwards. I don't know if it's canon or not, but it makes a degree of sense. Especially if Rauru was actively using himself as a battery, which would explain why his arm was the only part of him left by the time of TotK's future. Ganon basically ate him.

However, the way that Zelda did so seemed to be much like erecting a wall around the 2.

As for what was unsatisfying, both possibilities.

In my mind, I more prefer that, yes, Demise's curse influences Ganon to a degree & that maybe the stone made that influence a bit stronger, but even despite that, at the end of the day, it is still Ganondorf choosing to do these things.

In this way, it would be much like deciding to drive while drunk. It was still your choice to do so even if you weren't thinking clearly at the time.

This would actually work as an explanation even if Ganon isn't being influenced by Demise as you could argue that power, in & of itself, had an intoxicating effect upon Ganon. Some people really do get high off of power & I actually think that it would be completely in-character if Ganondorf were one of those people. This would allow a reasonable change in his disposition while still maintaining his free will & allowing those around him, including us, to still hold him accountable for his actions while under the influence of the stone.

From “Oh, this one is gonna be a doozy...” to “only BotW & TotK stuff.”

I'm not necessarily sure if having a spirit is the same as having a consciousness.

The reason being that I can't help but wonder if animals in the Wild Series also have spirits, because according to Twilight Princess, they do. But since we're basing this strictly off of the Wild Series’ canon, we can't be sure.

However, if they do & having one automatically translates to having a consciousness/being sentient & sapient, then why would it be not okay to kill monsters, but totally fine to kill animals, even humanely & in order to survive?

After all, Link very explicitly eats meat & so does practically everyone else in the Wild Series, including monsters.

You might not want to bring up the morality of killing/sealing monsters without also bringing up the morality of killing/sealing in & of itself.

And then ask if killing in self-defense, the defense of others, or to survive is okay.

And, if it's true that these monsters are sentient & sapient, then why is it that their automatic reaction is to attack people even if those individuals were doing nothing to them?

From “Wordsworth…” to “Moving on!”

I honestly don't see Rauru as the sort to seal those monsters without a damn good reason if he actually knew that they were, indeed, people.

Think of it this way. If the monsters truly are, as you say, people. Even people at the tribal stage of development. Then how are they in any way different from the Gorons or the Zora or the Rito or the Zonai?

In such a situation, I simply can't bring myself to believe that Rauru wouldn't, at least, try to reason with them first before resorting to mass sealing.

Recall how hard he tried to ally with the Gerudo despite the fact that they sicced a bunch of Molduga on his people.

This tells me that sealing would not be his first option.

And if that is the case, then I'm inclined to believe that the monsters actually were being very disruptive at the very least.

And, even if the monsters are people. It's possible that they are people in a similar way to how murderers, rapists, cannibals, & slavers are people. Just because someone is sentient & sapient doesn't automatically make them a good person. And societies can have very bad practices & customs that harm others, such as how many societies once practiced slavery, cannibalism, feminizing the enemy, ect.

And, while I can believe that many narrators can be inaccurate. At the same time, is Sonia really the sort to try & embellish the effect that the monsters had on her people?

If we are to give Ganondorf the benefit of the doubt even though we know less about him than Rauru, Sonia, & Mineru, then should we not do the same for them, especially since we have more first-hand experience with them?

Though, I agree. We would still need more information.

As for the injustice of pushing rule upon the natives of a place without their okay, recall what the monsters did to Lurelin. The Lurelinites lived there since the beginning of BotW, & if we are including HW: AoC in the list of canons, then it is at the least, 100 years old. However, I don't know for how long monsters generally live for. As such, we really can't extrapolate if the monsters who took over Lurelin did so due to having lived there before & were thus taking it back. And even though no one died in the take over, they still took over those people's homes & destroyed them. Many of said people having been born there & thus would therefore be natives of that same land as much as those monsters, provided that those monsters were once from there. And if those monsters were descendants of the ones that had lived there before (if monsters can even reproduce, there is no confirmed evidence that they can even be related to each other), if any had lived there at all, then they would actually have less right to that land than the Lurelinites.

As a result, the whole idea of making the monsters sentient & sapient honestly makes things all the more complicated as not only does it make killing the monsters a moral dilemma, but so does monsters killing non-monsters because now we have to apply the same standards that we automatically put on people, onto those monsters.

And, even if the monsters were natives of Hyrule, neither Ganondorf nor the other Gerudo are. Thus, this makes them an invading force. And even if you argue that by joining the alliance in Memory 7, this officially makes them Hyruleans, then that also means that Ganondorf killing Sonia turns him & all the Gerudo who followed him into battle, traitors & rebels.

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I will also say that I tend to come at the Gerudo from a perspective that they are a society of people forever on the cusp of extinction specifically due to their biological situation. A situation that forces them to be dependent upon other societies. More so than most, in fact.

I am, of course, talking about how they only get 1 Gerudo Voe a century. This is not hc, this is canon.

As a result of this, they have to go out & seek men from foreign countries. Specifically Hyrule. (Not that they couldn't do so by going to other countries, but I still think this pertinent. However, keep in mind that Hyrule is likely their closest neighbor.)

Yet, they go to war with Hyrule?

At the end of the day, the Gerudo were gambling with their future by doing this. Think about the implications of the Gerudo attacking Hyrule.

However, before I can continue, I need to ask you what it is that we are trying to establish here? Is it whether or not Ganondorf was justified in his actions? Whether he actually committed any crimes before taking the stone? What? Because my answers will likely change depending upon the parameters that are set.

And, for that matter, what exactly do you believe Ganondorf's goal was before his sealing? And I mean once he won. What is it that he was planning afterwards based on your perspective? Do you believe that he intended to just free Hyrule of Rauru & Sonia's reign, then just let everyone live their lives without a king? Or do you think that he intended to rule them from the very beginning?

Because according to the English version, the literal first thing that Ganon said in Memory 6 was “Hyrule will bow down before me.” I can't seem to find what he says in Japanese though. Like, I'm able to find the actual audio, but there are no Japanese subtitles & I'm not by any means fluent, so I'm unable to match the words with actual Kanji.

Anyway, "Hyrule will bow down before me." While I'm sure that you can find a more positive way to spin this, for me, this seems to indicate a desire to rule Hyrule. Because what else could "bow down before me" possibly mean other than "bow down before me?"

I don't know what it is that you believe Ganondorf planned on doing upon winning, but it seems to me that he wished to rule. And keep in mind that this wasn't said to anyone in particular. Rather, it was something that he said to himself. (Though, I have zero clue how Zelda has this knowledge. It may well have actually been more for the viewers’ benefit rather than having actually been in Zelda's memory.)

Either way, if we can trust the memories, then what he said there could very well be used as a measuring stick for Ganondorf's plans, behavior, ect. The reason being that this was something he said under his breath, away from anyone else's hearing, even his own people.

He had no idea that someone might hear him, thus this can very well be considered candid.

And, if we can't trust this memory, then we can't trust any of them. Thus we'd have nothing to base his personality from before his sealing on & have no way to determine the veracity of anything at all. Thus, the only thing that we would be able to judge Ganon's behavior on, would be the actions of Calamity Ganon & Ganondorf's actions in the present of TotK. Which we both have concluded are evil.

So, if we can't trust what he said when he was speaking to only himself with no one else privy to his words, then we can't trust practically anything else that we didn't see first hand.

And if you agree that it was his intentions from the very start to rule Hyrule, then this means that Ganondorf would be subject to the same exact standards that we place upon Rauru.

You argue that not everyone supported Rauru, but why would they support past Ganondorf any more than they would Rauru? Keep in mind that Ganon was, essentially, a foreigner to Hyrule. Meanwhile Rauru at the very least lived inside of Hyrule & interacted with its people. And even if the Zonai as a people were foreign, we don't know if Rauru, himself, was an immigrant or if he was born in Hyrule as a first generation native. And if he was, then that would give him as much right to be there as the other natives, including the monsters.

Another thing that I'm curious about is whether you've taken into account the possibility that you, yourself, might have your own internal bias in favor of Ganondorf. Do any of your interpretations happen to give Rauru & Sonia the benefit of the doubt?

How do you see Rauru & Sonia as people? Do you believe that they were decent people? Good rulers?

In the end, there's only so far that I am willing to stretch my suspension of disbelief.

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Either way, I am very much enjoying myself & thank you for all the well wishes.

I reciprocate them with vigor!

TOTK THOUGHTS

I'm gonna briefly talk about my thoughts/points if asked I'll elaborate ALSO, it's fine to have your own opinions its good to form opinions based of information you read about. If you have a different opinion that's fine I would love to talk about it. Also remember to be kind it's just a video game, no need for pitch forks we can agree to disagree. ♥︎

I feel like Ganondorf is givin too much credit in TOTK, a lot of people like to say that he was just mindin his own business until one day the evil white (he's not) goat man and his cult of masked individuals came in a ruined everything. Also people say that Rauru forced ALL the races to bow to him, but I'll mainly touch on Gerudo because these people need help😭

I think that's not true in anyway, this man is not a good man, he's not a good person and he's not a good leader. It really makes me angry when Rauru forced the Gerudo to be apart of Hyrule and the Gerudo didn't want that. THIS IS NOT TRUE! In the memory where all the sages and Rauru meet up (Memory 12 "Sages vow") the first line is "King rauru...We just received word that the last free Village in the Gerudo Desert has fallen." -Sage of water. They were free until Ganondorf came along... if he is king of the Gerudo and was a good leader why would they need to be free from him? It's almost like he's a bad ruler.

(quick side note yes ABSOLUTELY are an oppressed race and that should be a discussion! but they're not just oppressed by the other races their oppressed by their own leader)