#like aang she’s in the way of a fanon ship

[katerina-q]

the only reason this girl is so hated is because she's the one that Zuko actually LOVES

[wilcze-kudly]

I do find it annoying how a lot of Zutara fans tweak the character's stories, personalities and even the timelines to suit their own needs.

Once again, there's nothing wrong with fanon and headcanons, however if looking through the lense of canon, you're objectively wrong.

I ended up stumbling on a post from a Zutara shipper. (At this point I'm regretfully considering not following the tags for Zuko or Katara because I get way too much Zutara content lol) I'm not replying directly to her because I don't want this to turn into an argument, and I know she doesn't take criticism very well.

Ok, So let's break this down.

The character who was first out of the group to trust Zuko?

I'm quite sure this is referring to the scene in Ba Sing Se's caves. And yes, that is a very important scene. I think it's a very important scene preceeding Zuko's 'relapse'. It shows how he's matured during his time in Ba Sing Se and therefore it serves to add to our dismay when he joins Azula. I adore the fact that Zuko's journey to redemption is not linear, it certainly adds a lot to the character and shows us how his trauma affected him.

It's also a horrific moment for Katara. To have her worldview on Zuko and firebenders as a whole challenged, and then for it to go blowing up in her face. It rips open old wounds of her childhood. It refreshes her resentment of Zuko and the Fire Nation as a whole. It parallels the death of her mother when Aang dies due to Azula's lighting and she is unable to do anything about it. It places her back in that spot of helplessness. Even though she's grown up, even though she's a master waterbender, she still comes a hair's breadth to losing one of the most important people in her life.

No wonder she hated Zuko so much after this.

It's an important moment for both characters, but I wouldn't say it is that in a romantic sense. It's a sweet, hopeful moment that then turns absolutely horrific and visceral for both parties.

I could argue that there are other characters who could be given the title of 'first to trust Zuko'. Funnily, Appa being one of them lol.

But other characters trusting Zuko dovetails nicely into the next point.

The character who emotionally connects to Zuko?

Well, technically, I'd argue that most members of the Gaang connect emotionally on one level or another with him?

But I'd argue that Aang is the person Zuko connected with the most. Aang is Zuko's parallel. Aang is the first person to reach out to Zuko. Aang is the person who showed mercy to Zuko, multiple times. Aang is the person who valued Zuko's life, the life of someone whose whole life goal is to capture him.

This was also an incredibly important moment to Zuko. This is the thing he brings up when trying to convince the Gaang to let him join.

Zuko: Why aren't you saying anything? You once said you thought we could be friends. You know I have good in me.

The character Zuko feels safest letting his guard down around?

It's Mai. Love her or hate her, her relationship with Zuko is incredibly important to him. Maiko isn't my favourite Zuko ship, in full honesty. But even platonically, Mai and Zuko are one another's reprieve from their respective shitty lives.

People often talk about Katara touching Zuko's scar while discussing healing his scar, however one could argue that she did so as a medical examination. Mai touching Zuko's scar is a casual thing, neither of them really make a big deal of it and that's the beauty of it.

I'm mainly talking out of my own personal experience, as someone with a huge amount of burn scars, but there is a world of difference between someone inspecting my scars like Katara did and simply accepting them as a part of me, like Mai does for Zuko.

With Mai, Zuko isn't the scarred banished prince, Ozai's son or Azula's brother. He's just Zuko. And they speak freely with one another, arguing like real people do. Often, being comfortable having arguments is actually a sign of being comfortable with one another.

The character who helps Zuko heal from his trauma?

Once again, this is a bit of a flawed question. By the end of the show, Zuko isn't even fully healed, in my opinion. He has made leaps and bounds on the road to recovery, but when he will truly heal if ever is yet to be seen.

Zuko's journey to recovery includes plenty of people. This includes Iroh, Aang, Song and Jin. People who show him the error of his coping mechanism. Who challenge his worldview, who coax him out of the his shell of pain and anger.

The character known for showing most compassion to others?

Yes, Katara's compassion is a huge part of her character. Her need to help and protect those who cannot do that for themselves cannot be understated.

But Aang's compassion for others and all beings is just as great, if not greater than Katara's. Compassion and nonviolence are huge parts of his culture and his own philosophy.

Aang: Wait, we can't just leave him here. Sokka: Sure we can. Let's go. Aang :No, if we leave him he'll die. Aang airbends himself off Appa and retrieves Zuko, bringing him to Appa. Sokka: [Sarcastically.] Yeah, this makes a lot of sense. Let's bring the guy who's constantly trying to kill us.

Friendly reminder that Aang could've absolutely wrecked Ozai, but held back because his own moral compass was so powerful. Hell, he was friendly and nice to Azula, the woman who literally killed him.

This is why Aang and Katara work so well together. They're both incredibly compassionate people who will immediately jump in to help others in need. Like they did during the Painted Lady, destroying the factiry together.

The character who primarily bears the burden of having to step up into a parental role?

I think "parental role" is an incredibly vague term. There's a lot of things that go into a "parental role". Katara plays a stereotypically "maternal" role, while someone who plays a "paternal" one would probably be Sokka.

Katara deals with very "homemaking" tasks like sewing and cooking, etc. And Sokka often takes on the role of leader, hunter, gatherer and also protector, despite being a nonbender.

This coincides nicely with their core childhood traumas. The loss of Katara's mother impacted her greatly, leading her to have to step up into a motherly role. While Sokka was clearly heavily traumatised by his father departing and the crushing responsibility of having to care for his entire village.

Sexism also probably played a part in this dichotomy.

The character who represses their emotions to be strong for others?

I'd argue that this could apply to all the members of the Gaang in some capacity.

Aang's pain is something most of us will never experience and cannot hope to understand. The complete horrific destruction of his culture and home followed him through the entire show. He was entitled to his grief and rage, yet he supressed it. We see during Appa's kidnapping, how easy it would be for Aang to rage, to let himself be destructive. And yet, he wakes up every day and chooses to smile and goof off, because his friends need someone to remind them how to be children.

Sokka puts on a very impressive bravado, despite having a lot of insecurities. However, as the oldest member of the Gaang (pre Zuko) he puts on a facade of the confident and unbothered older brother. Even if he's the butt of almost every joke, he still keeps that demeanour up, letting it slip only a few times.

I'd actually argue that Toph is the person whom this label fits best. While we know Toph as witty, callous and strong, we have to remember that she kept up the facade of her parents' good, helpless little blind girl for no reason other than her mother and father's comfort. She actually hides a lot of her hurt, covering it up with a prickly exterior.

I want to do longer think pieces about Toph and Katara so apologies if this isn't complete.

I'm actually baffled by the idea of Katara repressing her emotions. She's actually quite straightforward and open about her feelings. She yells and feels a lot of emotions and lets them be heard. She gets angry and sad. She's actually kinda bitchy sometimes and that's honestly why I love her so much.

The whole inciting incident of the show was her getting so pissed off she somehow pulls a giant iceberg from the bottom of the sea.

She is anything but repressed.

She is angry.

She's angry at the fire nation, at Sokka, at her father, at men, and with good right to be so.

This is what makes her an amazing character and one who broke the mould of a lot of female characters at the time. Her anger and unrestrained emotions rang true with a lot of watchers at the time. I'm not sure why this is being taken away from her rather than celebrated.

I reiterate the point I made at the beginning of this post: there is nothing wrong with headcanons and fanon interpretations for one's enjoyment. I do find it a bit odd when it changes a character too much (because then, why not just create an oc?) but it's all in good fun. However, you shouldn't push that onto other people and how they perceive canon and you certainly shouldn't use it to take away from other characters. It's a very unfair way of entering discourse.

[burst-of-iridescent]

What would change in the Zutara ship/dynamic and/or Zuko and Katara individually if Zuko didn't betray Katara in Ba Sing Se and immediately chose her?

i think most canon divergent zutara fanfictions get it right: they'd probably become close friends in no time, and develop a dynamic similar to what they have in the ember island players. but there's a reason this scenario is best left to fanon - as fun as it would be to see more zutara bonding in the first half of book three, there's always something lost for something gained, and in this case it would likely come at the cost of the depth and intimacy they developed in canon through the WAT and TSR arcs.

it is vitally important to their relationship development that katara gets to be deeply, righteously angry at zuko, and particularly that she goes on her field trip to find yon rha while they're still not on friendly terms. not only does her anger bar her from instinctually falling into a caretaking role with zuko as she does with most of the gaang at one point or another, allowing her to be cared for rather than being the carer, it also frees her from feeling like she needs to fit into any perceived image he might have of her. katara makes it clear to zuko that she owes him nothing - least of all her friendship, and everything that entails.

and it is this very lack of obligation that gives katara the freedom to be wholly and entirely herself. people always point to how katara behaves "uncharacteristically" in the southern raiders to prove that zuko is a bad influence, but the truth is that the way she acts in tsr is an inherent part of who she is. katara can be cold, furious and vengeful just as she can be warm, compassionate and friendly, and the fact that she can freely show both sides to zuko isn't because he's pushing her to be someone she's not, but because she has no need to live up to an idealised version of herself.

this would likely still apply to a degree in a no-betrayal au (tsr would happen in any version of book 3, just because it's so significant to katara's arc), but i find it probable that katara might be more hesitant about bringing zuko along, or less willing to bloodbend before him so readily. katara has to witness zuko's lowest point before she allows him to see hers. she has to take her dark-night-of-the-soul journey with someone she knows has neither the right nor the willingness to condemn her choices, in order to be able to focus entirely on herself and what she needs. very telling that she doesn't ask aang, her future husband, to go with her for support.

it's because zuko allows himself to be a whetstone for the blade of her fury, because he cares enough to find out why, because he tries to help when she's given him no reason to do so, because he stands shoulder-to-shoulder with her at her darkest, most conflicted hour without forcing her to bear the burden of caring what he thinks or feels about it, that katara is able to forgive and befriend him. it is because they see each other at their highest and lowest moments that they're able to have the deepest and most intimate relationship of anyone in the gaang. and none of that would've happened without the betrayal in ba sing se.

after all, love is brightest in the dark.

[sokkastyles]

I have a question, I know we know that shipping does not equal morality. And I get that, and I really like that. However, on my other blog, that should have been my main blog (yes I am that dumb). I have talked about Aang's non-consensual and criticized how Kataang is written, however, if you ship Kataang I won't come for your throat because that's not my style. I know the few misogynists/antis on here and on Twitter, and I don't want to let a few bad apples be my impression of a fandom, that's not fair, So now I'm side-eyeing myself over my past remarks. Likewise, I know shipping is not equal to morality, but I also want to criticize Kataang because of how flawed it is and how wrong that kiss was (and other things). I have no idea what I'm saying because at this point I'm rambling. What do you think?

Well, there is a difference between criticizing a ship and criticizing canon. I don't honestly care what people ship. I use the antikataang tag because I don't want to argue with people who do ship it, but that doesn't mean I won't be critical of what is in the show. I think expecting people not to engage critically with media is absolute nonsense. But there is a difference between engaging critically with the actual media and criticizing people's fanon or headcanons, which is where you get away from critically engaging with canon and move into the area of criticizing other people's opinions, which is how arguments start.

Like, there isn't really any actual concrete argument you can make to criticize zutara, because zutara does not exist in canon. It's all fanon and headcanons and speculation. And criticizing other people's opinions just makes you look like a dick.

You also have to take into account the intention behind something. The thing about the way Katara's relationship with Aang is presented is that we're supposed to root for Aang to get Katara, and every obstacle towards that end is just there to create dramatic tension for the male point of audience identification. That's the real problem with the noncon kiss, and people who are critical of it are right to point it out.

In contrast, when I say shipping isn't morality, I'm talking about people who write, let's say, dubcon zutara fics. Fanfiction as a genre is largely female-centered fantasy. Yes, even those lurid fics you're thinking of. People write and read these fics for completely different reasons and have completely different expectations than when watching a series like ATLA. Trying to say that someone can't criticize the way the show presents Aang kissing Katara after she said she was confused as a mistake to be glossed over (that is forgotten as soon as it happens) because they also happen to like reading darkfic is nonsense. There's also a long history of women's interests being policed that informs my views here, vs the fact that consent has only fairly recently become a conversation in mainstream media. You have only to look at the way the show itself portrays Katara having interests (especially in boys) outside of Aang as dark and dangerous to see this happening in ATLA itself. Or the way the creators got away with saying that zutara shippers are doomed to end up in abusive relationships while painting Aang as a typical Nice Guy stereotype who expects Katara to magically become his girlfriend (and gets angry when she doesn't) and seeing nothing wrong with it.

The thing is that zutara, if we look at the way it's written in canon as a metaphor for a romantic relationship, follows the same tradition of how fanfiction has historically existed as an exploration of romantic and sexual dynamics. Those conversations about consent are actually happening and being explored in fanfiction, even the dark stuff, whereas relationships that are presented as "wholesome" often push us to NOT have those conversations. So when I say shipping isn't morality, what I actually mean is that noncanon shipping and darkfic actually has more of a moral leg to stand on than uncritically engaging with relationships on the grounds that Aang is the hero so his goodness and worthiness to get the girl should just be assumed. Zuko has to work for his right to be in a relationship with Katara because he didn't start out from a place of goodness, and that, on its own, is very female centered because instead of starting out from the perspective of the male hero deserving a relationship by virtue of being the hero, we see the idea that a man has to work to gain a woman's respect and affection.

So it's not so much that I hate KA, but I hate the idea that we should engage in it uncritically. And that would be true even if it really was the most wholesome relationship in the world. The same thing cannot be true of zutara because even the darkest of darkfic are about women centering themselves in the narrative and engaging with power dynamics in ways that are subverting patriarchal norms about relationships by definition.

[ultfreakme]

Look you can’t dismiss Zukka as a crackship when they, overall, had more positive interactions with each other than many other fanon Zuko or Sokka ships that are taken more seriously because they’re het.

Like okay, you’ve got

the episode 1 armor parallel

 Sokka saying “if there’s one thing I know about Zuko, it’s that he never gives up”

Zuko’s time at Western Air Temple where Sokka’s the only one who’s helping him to his room and even smiling at him.

Then we get TWO WHOLE EPISODES(TWO) of Zuko and Sokka working together extremely well and the narrative itself showing how they complement and support each other positively.

Need I talk about the tent scene, yes its funny but also Sokka felt comfortable enough with Zuko at that point that he talked about his mom with Zuko.

The SWORDBENDING KAI

the fact that Zuko, Sokka and Suki become a little sub-trio during Ember Islands

the Search comic where they’re the only ones awake and they’re talking about family.

every zukka shipper knows this one, *ahem* “The prince and the fool, is that all you were, or were to one another?”

If we’re talking on Zutara terms, Zukka is equally as valid. Like yeah it’s funny as a dynamic but also, it’s not like this is completely out of nowhere. There’s stuff in there that backs up the ship rather well.

I think overall, Sokka saw Zuko as more of a person? The crystal caves thing put Zuko on Katara’s shit list, rightfully so, but it’s because Katara’s an idealist and sees the best in people. Unfortunately it goes the other way, she’s a lot more black and white about people than Sokka. Like if it were Sokka in the crystal caves and Zuko had pulled the mom story, Sokka would empathize but he’s not going to trust Zuko in any capacity or see him too differently unless he showed results.

Like he knows to some extent Zuko’s capable of good and even says that just being capable of good isn’t enough. He needs to show it. Zuko betraying them in the Ba Sing Se definitely would’ve pissed him off but like, to some extent, he’d have seen it coming. Sokka’s always been more nuanced on the morality thing than Katara and Aang. Which is why I think he more quickly was willing to give Zuko a chance at the Western Air Temple. Zuko was acting on his ability for good. Sokka being a skeptic actually helped them a lot(oh, Jet my boy).

Anyways Zukka rights

[mal3vol3nt]

This is kinda a long read. But I wanna ask your opinion on this. I see this one post saying Zutara is a purely female fantasy and that’s why so many people hate it. Basically saying it was made for girls, by girls, it has everything a girl wants in a relationship and “When people attack the idea of Zutara, this is fundamentally what they're attacking-women and girls wanting better for themselves in a relationship.”

Now I am just a man. But I think this argument especially the latter part is such a reach and a cope. I don’t see how shipping a fanon ship is some big feminist thing. There are women I know who love Kataang (and if you ask me most of what they’re describing Zutara is actually Kataang in disguise) and there are some guys who like Zutara (which is perfectly fine as long as you don’t write a slave-fic about it like this one guy.

Call me insensitive, but it seems like this guy has some weird victim complex.

Here’s the link BTW:

https://www.tumblr.com/longing-for-rain/753424994905800704/this-isnt-a-question-about-whether-or-not-zutara?source=share

i agree with you anon. i think it’s very silly that these people think a fandom ship is the peak of activism/feminism. such a claim, dare i say, reeks of white feminism, especially when you take into account that the ship they’re claiming is “so feminist” is a relationship between a canonical colonizer and a victim of genocide

the things the op of that zutara post listed are all very westernized “issues” that they claim shipping zutara is supposedly fighting against while also praising western standards, such as saying that zutara is for the girls who want to be with a man they’re attracted to, directly saying that aang is unattractive because he doesn’t fit western beauty standards whereas zuko does. as well as saying zutara is for the girls who want passion in their relationships, directly saying that zuko’s hot-headedness and western masculine qualities are hotter than aang’s pacifism and him being a monk. this claim is also pretty on par with how zutaras sexualize the relationship between zuko and katara, which i don’t even want to get into for obvious reasons. needless to say, i think all of these claims are very very stupid and so obviously come from someone who gravitates towards the racism of the show. sorry not sorry

these claims also come from someone who twists aang’s character so that they feel more justified in hating him, and who twist katara and zuko’s characters so their ship works better. because at no point in the show does it ever feel like katara is changing herself to be with aang, as if she would ever do that (i can tell this is a southern raiders argument—i swear these people misread and latch onto everything). at no point in the show does it ever feel like katara is unattracted to aang, especially since she’s the one who initiates both the first and the last kiss between them, is constantly touching him, and gives him kisses on the cheek in a way she doesn’t do with any one else (she also audibly gasps when she first sees his tattoos in episode 1, which could be read as just her being shocked because she’s never seen airbender tattoos before, but considering the fact her crush on him develops quickly by the beginning of book 2 and she marries him, i wouldn’t be surprised if she also liked the way they looked). all claims that fall back on katara forcing herself to be with aang for whatever reason are projection because 1) katara would never do that. she is not the kind of girl to force herself into any position that doesn’t make her happy, and we see her actively set boundaries with aang in canon, so she is obviously comfortable making her wants known, and 2) katara clearly doesn’t see things through the same lens as her so-called fans. just because you had a crush on zuko doesn’t mean that katara should too, and just because aang isn’t your type doesn’t mean he can’t be her type. yall are projecting onto her

the whole “zutara is for the girls” and “kataang is the male gaze” is so stupid because no, that’s not how that shit works and is a take that is so very american/western that i fail to take it seriously. and yes, i know atla is a western-created show with a western-intended audience, but the characters in the show aren’t and i feel it’s important to acknowledge that

now, i’m a girl (or a woman i should say, 19 years old lmao). and i live in a very patriarchal society and have dealt with sexist standards being forced onto me from my latino culture and family my whole life. it didn’t, however, take long for me to realize that i was unhappy with that way of life and have actively detached myself from it, instead gravitating towards fighting for and recognizing my freedom to choose. this is a freedom i believe all women should have, and i have dedicated myself to learning of the injustices women go through all over the world and do my best to fight against them from where i live. i detest the patriarchy and all things created that demean women or force them into any one role. i am also a lesbian who hardly ever thinks of men lmao. yet miraculously, i am a kataang shipper. according to these zutara stans, im a misogynist who prioritizes male pleasure and happiness. yet from what i know of myself, that’s not at all true. i couldn’t give less of a fuck about patriarchal standards and actively avoid them in the media i consume as much as i can. but i think kataang is cute and i turn away from the thought of zutara, so either one of two things are true:

kataang is for the girls and zutara is the male-gaze

or fictional character shipping has fuck all to do with activism and the kind of person you are in real life

i’m gonna go out on a limb and say number 2 is correct. whether you’re a zutara shipper or a kataang shipper, i don’t think that’s an instant tell of the kind of person you are in your real life. it’s not an actual tell of what you value and yall look ridiculous trying to paint one ship as better than the other on an innate moral level

at the end of the day, this is fandom shipping. you can be a horrible person who engages in shipping content and still be a horrible person at the end of the day regardless of which ship suits your fancy. cause it doesn’t fucking matter. neither of the ships are morally superior to the other in any way that has importance in the real world. yall need to get offline i swear

now personally, i think kataang is an infinitely better ship than zutara for many reasons that i have discussed before, so yall will never catch me saying kataang and zutara are equal in any other context but this one lmao

also saying any colonizer x colonized ship is superior will never be taken seriously by me. you can enjoy those kind of ships all you want, but they’ll never be my cup of tea and that doesn’t make me or anyone else anti-feminist or whatever the fuck insult zks throw out. i just prefer my ships to be between people who haven’t wiped out the other person’s race

[lilith-91]

I envy httyd fandom so much

The characters, especially Hiccup and Astrid, are so loved and respected. The franchise is still so loved even if the third movie is controversial for obvious reasons

While in atla fandom

-Aang the pacifist monk and genocide survivor is getting disrespect and bashed over and over again because he is not a murderer AND because he's getting in the way of a fanon ship

-Katara, a beautiful well written female character, is victim to misogynistic tropes and theories just because they don't like the boy she ended up with

-the rest of the characters (Zuko, Sokka etc) are crazy mischaracterized by haters AND fans

Oh well

[zvtara-was-never-canon]

Zeeks are astonishing.

They seem to analyze the cartoon with the microscope. Nothing will escape their eye, they’ll find the tiniest hints supporting their ship (“see, when she touches his scar, her thumb is on his lips!” it isn’t any more in the very next frame even though Katara didn’t move but who cares, “see, his expression changes from angry as soon as Katara talked to him!”, “see, she played with her hair while he suggested that Aang sits next to him!”). They’ll take literally anything and perform terrific mental gymnastics to link this anything to their ship. Of course, finding similarities and parallels between Katara and Zuko in every thing that ever happened to them is a child’s game. So observant…

And then suddenly when you ask them about anything else – they sound like people who hasn’t watched “Avatar” at all! Missing the whole idea of the show, not remembering important plot lines, denying canon character interactions, misunderstanding the simplest, most obvious things and so on and so for…

That’s such an impressive way of watching/enjoying/analyzing any media.

"It's like they haven't watched Avatar at all!" Honestly, at this point, most of them didn't, at least not in MANY years. They engage with the story through out of context gifs and zutara metas/fics.

Honestly that's part of why I make sure to rewatch the stuff I'm in fandoms for - not just my favorite episodes or scenes, but the whole thing. It's really easy to misremember or straight up forget stuff about the actual source material when you engage solely with the fanon version of it and sooner or later you end up saying some bullshit.

Even for stuff that REALLY let me down, like How I Met Your Mother, I just have to rewatch it every now and then because otherwise What's The Point of saying anything, positive or negative, about a story that you can barely remember?

[kataraslove]

I just stumbled across your acc and I gotta say, I agree with alotta ur takes

Ur sooo well spoken and I really enjoy reading your thoughts and opinions

Katara is one of my favorite characters and it makes me really happy to see someone appreciate her and her writing

Ngl a lot of atla fans r lowkey braindead so ur acc is pretty refreshing

Thanks for posting!! 🩷

thank you! 🩷 your words are too kind. i appreciate it.

i did mention this before, but this blog stemmed kind of entirely out of spite. i was sick and tired of fandom on here telling me that there was only one way to interpret and enjoy my favourite character, dictating who i could or could not ship her with and how much of a stan that made me. it’s not an experience just unique to the atla fandom, of course. it’s becoming something more apparent nowadays especially, the ways in which multiple readings and interpretations of a character is heavily discouraged by fandom in favour of just one.

it’s baffling how, for so many years, there was a strict binaric interpretation of katara’s character, with 0 being non-canon and 1 being completely in favour of all things canon. either you had to vehemently agree with everything that bryke wrote for katara’s within atla and post-canon, to the point where i have seen people defend the lack of statues of her as “oh, she probably didn’t want one anyway,” (NO!!) or you had to have deep-rooted anger and rejection for all things that were done to her story, in the guise of katara deserving better.

katara does deserve better narratively, but NOT in the ways that the tumblr fandom thinks she should have. not in the ways that she should be ambassador to the fire nation, or become firelady (a racist depiction in fanon and nothing but a decorative title in canon) and live out the rest of her life by zuko’s side, serving and prioritizing zuko’s nation.

“but wouldn’t it be empowering if katara sat on the throne of her oppressors and got to dictate - “ no. it’s not. stop advocating for that type of ending for women from oppressed and marganized groups. stop acting like that is the ideal future that katara wanted this whole time, that ruling as part of a foreign monarchy that decimated your people and your culture is the ultimate threshold for liberation.

i’ve seen people who claim to take a doylist perspective for critique of atla (read: kataang)’s writing completely lose all comprehension when it comes to critically assessing post-canon zutara. by that i mean, if we continue with the writing direction that we saw for all of the female atla characters in the sequel series, a zutara endgame would position katara in a worse outcome than she got narratively. but you tell anyone that and it’s an instant “zuko would have given her 10 statues!!”

but most importantly, nothing has radicalized me more over this year than seeing the “katara deserves better (in the form of zuko)” crowd, the same crowd who is currently dreading any form of fixing or retcons from avatar studios in upcoming content, defend the hell out of natla katara’s writing. the very same people who were praising katara’s arc to the stars, stating that it was nearly complete until the two grown men decided to pair her up with aang and ruined all at the end.

well, what about the group of zutara shippers in the natla writer’s room who handed her everything in the narrative, who removed her flaws, her anger, her compassion, who stripped her down to everything except hope, all in the name so that she wouldn’t appear unlikable to audiences. i mean, that tremendously backfired for them, because now the young actress who plays katara is getting hate spewed at her for failing to portray katara interestingly, when the problem has always been the shit writing.

anyway, i appreciate this message! glad i could be of service and it’s nice that you’re a zuko fan who ships kataang! lots of people who love zuko do.

“a lot of atla fans are braindead” LMAO you can say that again!!!

[survivalove]

Kinda random, but what made me really start shipping Kataang was how determined Aang was to get Katara's necklace back from Zuko, especially when we know how important said necklace is for her both as part of her family and part of her culture. And the thing is, Aang is always doing nice things for Katara without expecting any reward, like offering to fly her to the North Pole and refusing to train under sexist Pakku. Things that made me go from "this is a cute ship with good development" to "this is my OTP."💙🧡

So true, anon that’s a great scene!! Hmm I don’t know what made me ship it cuz I was 5 when I watched it for the first time so I really didn’t care about ships. But as I got older I started watching the show for Katara and she kept touching him and asking him how she looked dhdjfj it was beyond obvious TO ME (bass amplified).

That and every time she cried over him. It just felt really intense I’d be like why are you crying queen 😫😫😫 she’s so extra I can’t.

But I think a singular scene that really made me ship them was in The Serpent’s Pass when he said she made him believe in hope and she cried. When I think about it, Aang’s opinion seems to mean a lot to Katara and I think he notices that and makes sure to praise her so she won’t doubt herself. I liked seeing the fmc be praised and loved by the boy she liked without having to grovel and look pathetic, you know?

That reminds me of a meta I read the other day about how Sokka (yes I have to mention sokka or katara when I talk about the other 🤪) doesn’t really take compliments and I think Katara is also like that in a less extreme way.

Like when she tried to discredit herself when she revived him with the spirit water and Aang was like hello you literally saved my life??? dhdjdj I don’t care what delusional fanon shippers have to say, Aang compliments and appreciates Katara more than anyone, and that’s my fave part of their dynamic.

Anyways yes I agree with you. Aang always does what Katara wants simply because he wants to and she wants to. They don’t really force the other to agree with them either, even tho they both clearly care a lot for each other’s opinions. I think the show does a great job of setting the foundation for their romantic relationship this way through all these platonic moments.

Back to my fave scene in the Serpent’s Pass, I especially like how that scene shows Aang letting go of one of his beliefs for Katara which is linked to bigger moment of him refusing to let go of her to master the avatar state in the Guru, and eventually finding a whole new way to end the war while still staying true to himself. I don’t wanna say Aang and Katara getting together is integral to his arc or her arc, but I do think they link it in this way on purpose, and it’s why a lot of people that claim “Aang never changed” often don’t ship Kataang and the same for people that hate Katara and call her annoying then say they didn’t understand the ship. Like clearly my guy.

Anyway, to sum up this ramble 🤭 this is why I love the Serpent’s Pass scene and think it’s very underrated among kataang fans. I’m curious to know what kataang scene made oomfs ship too? I loved this ask and thank you for sharing that with me anon xx

[longing-for-rain]

I know you said no bait asks, and I promise this isn't, I'm genuinely curious to hear an opinion from a Zutara shipper who seems pretty rational. (I am not a kataang fan either by the way so I'm not trying to argue that or anything.). Do you believe that Zutara is a feminist relationship in comparison to Kataang? And what are your reasons for being so strongly invested in Zutara?

Hi, thanks for the ask. I’ll do my best to explain my feelings on this, but to summarize, I think there are two questions here that aren’t inherently related: a) is Zutara feminist and b) why do I like it so much. I know this might surprise you, but even though Zutara is my OTP, I don’t consider it inherently feminist. Let me explain though because that doesn’t mean it’s a bad ship at all.

Obviously, I really like the characters together. However, I won’t go ahead and say it’s the “feminist” choice over kataang, because personally I think that discussing whether a female character has a feminist narrative should not center around which man she ends up with. The primary focus should be on her narrative independently. And if she doesn’t have an independent narrative, well…that’s not feminist at all.

But I’ll answer in more detail below because I think this is an interesting distinction.

a) Is Zutara feminist over Kataang?

Like I said above…no, not inherently. I think what this question is getting at is which relationship gives Katara as a character a feminist narrative, which is a tricky question. Only one of these ships is canon, so we only know how one relationship would have played out in the eyes of the creators. Everything else is up to the interpretation of fans.

First things first, I absolutely do not think kataang, as portrayed in canon, adds to Katara’s independent narrative as a character, and certainly doesn’t contribute to any potential feminist narrative of her character. There are many instances of Katara being damseled and/or generally reduced in complexity whenever she’s placed in a “romantic” situation involving Aang. Despite Katara also being a main character, the “crush” is portrayed entirely through Aang’s POV. And post canon, Katara ends up being relegated to the role of a healer who stays home at the South Pole (this is why I could never get invested in LoK). Which, if you paid attention to her character at all, was something she explicitly stated she didn’t want to be and fought to escape. Ending her story that way reversed any “feminist” narrative set up in ATLA. So no, this is not a narrative that centers Katara and her ambitions at all.

Now onto fanon content.

The beauty of fanon is that it’s completely up to interpretation. Fans can give the characters whichever narratives they want. This goes for both Zutara and kataang. Just because your ship is canon doesn’t mean you have to adhere to canon; many canon shippers write “fix it” type content or otherwise make changes to the canon relationship to make it more appealing to them. I’m sure there are kataang shippers who rewrite their canon relationship to give Katara a feminist narrative, but to be honest the ship just doesn’t appeal to me at all so I haven’t seen those, but I’m not saying they don’t exist.

Now, Zutara. Even though there are definitely some hints in the series, there was nothing explicitly romantic between these characters in canon. So, fans are free to interpret how a relationship between Zuko and Katara would play out, and therefore Katara’s narrative within that relationship. Some people do make a strong effort to give Katara a feminist story, and in my experience, this is often a direct response to canon. But on the other side of the coin, some people absolutely…do not. It’s a big ship with lots of content. Some of it gives Katara’s character a feminist narrative, some of it…does the exact opposite of that. I think anyone familiar with the ship is probably well aware of some of the unsavory tropes associated with it so I won’t get into that.

But anyways, for any ship, there is a variety of content featuring Katara. Sometimes she’s a great warrior, sometimes she plays an important political role, and sometimes she’s just treated like a slave. Sometimes she has her own wants and ambitions and sometimes her story revolves entirely around whichever male character the author is thirsty for. Sometimes she’s treated as a complex human being and sometimes she just exists to be a fetish. Which again, goes for literally any ship and character you can think of.

So when asking yourself if Katara is given a feminist narrative, asking which man she’s paired with is asking the wrong question. Instead the focus should be on Katara herself and what the message of the story says about her.

b) Why do you like Zutara?

Although you can probably tell from the above, I do consider myself a feminist and enjoy analyzing media from that perspective. But honestly, that has little to do with why I like this relationship so much.

Sorry if this answer is boring, but I just…like them. Everyone has different tastes. For me, I was immediately drawn to them watching the show as a kid, because I’m a sucker for that sort of hurt/comfort dynamic they had going on in books 2-3. Growing up and taking a closer look, I also found that I see Zuko and Katara as having a lot of similar values and personality traits that I feel would make them compatible in a relationship. Also, there’s the fact that I just really like Katara and Zuko as individual characters so I like the fact that Zutara allows me to explore both characters by themselves, as well as how they interact together.

But if I’m being real, the final Agni Kai scene is what sold me. The emotional intensity of that scene just had me hooked for life. It’s really not much deeper than that, but yes, I’m extremely obsessed and emotionally invested in this ship.

And yes, I do write a lot of Zutara fic and do my best to give Katara independent goals and ambitions and agency as a character. I do my best to write her in a way that portrays a feminist narrative because I personally find that important. But that’s something I could apply to any ship. I don’t think it’s inherently feminist to ship Zutara, because like I said earlier, it completely depends on the individual fans and how they interpret it. I like interpreting it in a way that gives Katara individual power and goals, but that’s just me. Not everyone writes Zutara the same way.

Hope that answers your question ❄️

[leantailean]

I really love Toko, but i feel like its often constrained, largely due to the age gap. Like stories will often either be set in post-canon, or the characters will be aged up. Do you feel like that holds true and if yes do you feel like there's a dynamic that i'm missing. And post-canon is fun to explore, but i feel like the most interesting story telling is generally set while the war is ongoing. Conversely i feel like aging up Zuko would be fairly disruptive to his journey. Not that i think those are bad things, i'm really liking Third Time's the Charm that plays with the latter, and arranged marriage which to feels like a very natural trope for them, and obviously i love your art. They say for a reason that constraints inspire creativity. I'm just curious about your thoughts about that.

Hi! Thanks for the ask and sorry for the late reply (sickness prevented me from replying)

I have a lot to say about this, so let’s begin (it’s a loooooong answer).

Age gap is the most common argument against toko I’ve heard. And, to be honest, I find it really strange. You see, Aang and Zuko have the same age gap, and almost the same have Sokka and Toph, and nevertheless Tokka and Zukaang are quite widespread and supported ships, and no one cares for the age gap. That’s why I don’t really see why people believe that age gap as an issue in Toko.

And this argument sounds strange also because If relationship, even romantic one that are originates from friendship are starting to built it doesn’t mean they immediately become sexual. Kataang is canon and beautiful, but in reality several years should pass for them before they step into that kind of relationship. I’m even uncomfortable to think about Maiko having sexual activity in the canon, when they both are around 16.

Besides, it is difficult to imagine Zuko anything but aro/ace to me.

 Toko's relationship originates from similar life experiences and mutual support for each other. This is not a love at first sight, but a gradually developing "friends-lovers" relationship. Which, by the way, completely similar with other canonical pairs, such as kataang.

Also I think that this argument originates from extremely wrong, primitive fanon interpretation of Zuko and Toph. Usually Zuko is depicted super mature and super experienced dude (all that dadko bullshit, omg), and they prefer to see Toph as some tomboy-ish brat (here in Russia people call such girls “the guy from the next yard”), rude, not serious and childish. Nothing can be farer from the truth.

In fact, Zuko is emotionally underdeveloped, traumatised and rather infantile due to the abuse he experienced. He Is a teenager with serious anger issues and bad social skills.

Toph is, otherwise, one of the most mature gaang members. She is able to understand and listen to other people , and she never demand anything back (“Yes, thank you Toph”. Indeed it woul be very nice of Sokka and Suki to thank her for saving their lives). Despite her guarding her boundaries carefully she is always open to other people and she is in good contact with her own emotions (which is what Zuko lacks). So in their relationship, at least that the very beginning Toph would be the most mature side (although it’s fair for every possible Zuko’s partner, such as Maiko, Zukka or Zukaang).

 So I don’t think that Toko is having any problems in that sense.

On the one hand, I agree that it’s the most interesting when the relationship somehow develops during canonical events, and not in the post-canon. But in this case, this applies to absolutely any couples, except of maiko, kataang and sukka, since they are the only ones developing during the war. Any possible other relationships, such as Tokka, or Zukka, or Zukaang, can exist only in  post-canon if canonical couples break up for some reason. Again, Toko is no exception in this case.

Zuko and Toph's relationship (doesn’t matter friendly or romantic) did not get the development  they deserve in the third season. In fact, their relationship was just thrown under the bus because of the sloppy writing of the entire third season (to give Zuko one episode with each member of gaang  just to check the box, like "mission accomplished" and give almost not developing of his relationship with each of them outside of these episodes. And Toph was robbed even of this). But despite this, toko still has more then any other fanon ships (although “Boiling Rock” is definitely a very Zukka episode). We see that Toph was the first one who believed Zuko, and not just believed - she actively defended him in front of the others and made an attempt to have a chat with him herself. It is important: the fact that Zuko's relationship with Toph is radically different from any other ones with the rest of the gaang member, since she was not with them when Zuko actively hunted the Avatar, and their first close interaction was after his redemption, when he became the best version of himself. Toph has no personal negative experience with him, and Zuko does not  feel guilty towards her, and with her he doesn’t need to make up for anything, and this is very important.

Strangely enough, but, one of the most Toko moments of the show is the moment in which Zuko and Toph do not interact personally: the meeting of Iroh and Toph. She is also the first from gaang who met and even, one might say, became friends with Iroh. Iroh, who has always been Zuko's father figure is talking to Toph about real Zuko. Not about the imperialist prince cruelly pursuing the last hope of the world - the way Sokka, Katara and Aang knew him - but about just a boy only Iroh, his closes person, knew. In addition, Iroh, who knows and loves Zuko, says how much he and Toph have in common (Iroh is the first and main Toko shipper, and I will die on this hill). Narratively and dramatically, this is an amazing moment, and I will fight with anyone who says that Toko has little canonical content: any other Zuko ships can only dream about such a moment.

It is also interesting that it is with Toph that Zuko has the most sincere conversation about his guilt towards his uncle. He talked about it with Sokka and with Katara, but it was Toph who was able to tell him the right words that really comforted him and make him smile (seriously, this is the best smile Zuko has ever seen, and it happens during his conversation with Toph!)

We see that they feel extremely comfortable and open with each other, even though they barely know each other.

Toph is the only girl in the canon made Zuko to blush, just a fact. And Toph, in her turn, openly talks to Zuko her feelings for him (I'm not saying that her feelings were already romantic at that time ). "This is how I show affection" is just the best moment.

We can talk about many other canonical points that are important for toko: the similarity of characters and life experience - both Zuko and Toph are from the upper class, both grew up in abusive families and both know what it is to feel unloved by their own parents. The Blue Spirit/Blind Bandit is one of the most interesting and direct parallels of Toph and Zuko - an alter ego that they needes to get away from theirs social roles (a prince and a young lady from an aristocratic families). This is the same direct parallel as the canonical pair has: The Painted Lady/Kuzon. Just as Aang and Katara need alter egos to help others people which is the core of their characters and unites them,Toph and Zuko need alter ego in order to satisfy their own desire for freedom, which they cannot satisfy in any other way.

They are both disabled, forced to deal with the fact that people judge them by their disability and appearance, forced to prove every day what they are more than their disability. Again: neither Zuko nor Toph share such an experience with anyone else, only with each other.

So canonically, toko has a lot of support - certainly no less than any other fanon ship.

After all, they look amazing together.

Also, I just love the moment with kissing doves. Seriously, ATLA rarely show us such a perspective, why they needed to place such a scene in the same shot with Toph and Zuko as if it were foreshadowing their future relationship? God, I love it!

I really like to explore the post-canon, especially since  I don’t consider comics and LOK to be canon, although it doesn't even matter - nothing in them contradicts the idea that Toph and Zuko could be together at least at some point in their lives.

To explore  alternative universes for toko, such as the arranged marriage plot, is also a very interesting, and it would be great to talk about it another time.

Thank you for the question, I think my thoughts turned out to be a little messy, but I hope it could be interesting to you.

________

Let's talk about TOKO!

[tumblingxelian]

For the Salty Ask, any fandom:

#1 What OTPs in your fandom(s) do you just not get?*

#6 Has fandom ever made you enjoy a pairing you previously hated?*

#11 Is there an unpopular character you like that the fandom doesn’t? Why?

(Smashes a glass bottle on my face) Let's fucking do this!

#1 What OTPs in your fandom(s) do you just not get?*

Gosh there are too many to list in a single post, and a few may get me targeted assassins XD

I'm quite lukewarm on Rei & Mina from Sailor Moon, maybe reflecting that I wasn't super into the manga & only watched some of the live action stuff but still.

Reylo, obviously. Other Star Wars would be Obi-Wan/anyone really, and also the fact people actually treat Anakin and Padme as romantic or like they could have a functional relationship scares me.

If we do a quick drive-by on ATLA, I really don't get why Azula & Aang became so popular, or Zuko & Katara. Or more, the best explanations I have for them still leave me going :/ at best. So there's that.

In Warcraft we have Thrall & Jaina, which is just 100% a case of, "Wow, they sure are standing next to each other" as far as ships go. Also for WOW is Jaina & Sylvanas, I only get it aesthetically, kinda.

Felix & Kagami from ML has me like ???? I didn't watch past S3 though so ??? Also that people treat Gabirel & Emile or Gabriel & Nathalie as like.. healthy is just... What!? I get the ships, I don't get the fanon spin on them.

In Dragon Ball, this one also draws targeting fire, but I never really got Vegeta & Bulma, which is canon I know, but still. A fling is one thing but an actual relationship just leaves me head-scratching. Also not sure if this is still the case, but I recall Gohan & Piccolo as being weirdly popular back in the olden days, and like, what!?

In DC, oh boy, gonna piss some people off with this one, but:

Bruce & any long term relationship, I don't care if its Selina, Talia, Clark, or Diana, or Harvey. This is not a man who can commit to another human being, because he's committed himself to staling the utterly uninterested Gotham City. Anything claiming otherwise is positively incomprehensible to me.

Also I don't grasp why Dick & Babs is so popular, or Tim & Steph, or Tim & Jason. The former has some history, but it so often feels like crow-barring two former high school crushes who have moved on together against their will. The latter is just like,... No, just no.

Within RWBY, if we are strictly going by popular pairs then I really don't get Weiss & Jaune, or Ruby & Jaune. I'm not even talking about like, V2 behavior or whatever, they've all grown, but I don't see how they've grown in a way that leads to these being popular ships. I had a similar stance on Blake & Sun when it was a major player; like attraction can be there without me thinking it works as a ship.

Also Ironwood & Glynda is just like... She could not be more utterly not into him if she tried, why are you people forcing it? Same with Winter & Qrow, their dynamic doesn't even have a fun rivals to lovers vibe to it.

Also as I believe you mentioned but Oscar & Ruby doesn't click with me. Again, I can sort of follow the logic, but I always end up at, "Why is this what you want?" Because to get to it, at least when it comes to the more intense advocates, it usually involved ripping out all the interesting stuff from their dynamic and characters for hurt comfort fic material.

You're gonna kill me.

But I have similar feelings about Ruby & Penny. I can see it more than Oscar & Ruby, but at the same time I just... It doesn't click with me and most stuff I see of it removes all the interesting character drama and dynamics so I get bored outside of a purely aesthetic appreciation level.

#6 Has fandom ever made you enjoy a pairing you previously hated?*

Sort of an interesting spin on this, I kind of tricked myself into enjoying a ship I previously didn't like through fandom.

Specifically when writing a Sailor Moon fanfic, I tweaked Usagi & Mamoru's dynamic to be a bit more like their mutual antagonism from the early anime, but cos both were on equal footing, I found their banter really enjoyable to write & started vibing with it.

There might be others but I am drawing a blank right now ><

#11 Is there an unpopular character you like that the fandom doesn’t? Why?

Yamcha.

Always Yamcha, forever Yamcha, my poor sweet victim of character desolation, Yamcha!

He's introduced in the comedic part of the series with this premise being that he's a powerful and dangerous bandit, who is chronically shy around girls and is deeply romantic, wanting a family.

He's shown to be a skilled fighter who developed powerful techniques on his own with zero training. He knows tons of martial arts lore, was a nice mix of sensible but brave and basically Goku's big brother.

But he kept getting used as the WORF and then after being killed via kamakaze after stepping up to protect his younger friend from such a fate, he is memed to death by the fandom. & is later characterized as a cheater despite having been nothing but loyal to Bulma across the series. Has his desire for a married life & family surgically removed & given to Krillin, & basically gets treated like trash for the rest of time.

Outside of DB...

Pretty much every character, creature or faction I find interesting in Warcraft is hated or regarded with indifference so that's fun XD

As to specific characters from other series:

Chloe of ML, people hating on an already hated in universe 14 year old whose neglectful, corrupt father left her to be raised by he staff in a room that makes a dentist surgery look homey & who otherwise only taught her the worst lessons imaginable. Along with an emotionally and verbally abusive mother & who was actively groomed by the main villain of the series who has known her since she was a child are just... For fucks sake she's 14.

Lila of ML, she's a messy, confusing ass character cos it seems the writers don't have a solid idea for her. But like, within the first three seasons at least, she's still a 14 year old who has two adults with cameras plated in her room manipulating and controlling her.

Azula of ATLA, another 14 year old who was treat like shit by the adults in her family. She's a weapon to her father, a monster by birth to her mother, "Crazy" to an allegedly kind old uncle who has killed infinitely more people than her & only felt bad when it impacted him. Seriously, fuck all those doing Azula hate. She's a better villain than Ozia, a more merciful and skilled general than Iroh, and seems to have at least some actual loyalty to her family unlike Ursa who only cared about Zuko.

Mai of ATLA, People hate her for her dead pan affect and the fact she's not cradling Zuko's sof lil baby head, and or between him & the ship for him they like. Fuck off again, Mai's fun.

Cinder of RWBY, villains are meant to do bad things. Villains like Cinder do not appreciate being blackmailed. Villains like Cinder don't appreciate people who know their secrets, like using the Lamp, being around to hold it over her head later. She's not stupid, some people just lack media literacy.

Harriet of RWBY, while I get that she's not super popular, I tend to find the level of vitriol she gets uncomfortable at best. Like, it often feels less like people not getting the characters role & more like, some people running will with the chance to be unrelentingly hostile towards a fictional black woman. Elm gets some of this but is more often forgotten.

Talia of DC, there is so much racism both in canon and fanon and its heartbreaking.

[burst-of-iridescent]

I saw your response to the previous anon. even if we assume that you are right about KA (you are wrong, but I don't see the point in arguing with you), there has never been such a lot of negative interaction between Aang and Katara as there was between Zuko and Katara. Katara threatened Zuko with death and was literally going to leave him to die (and Zuko remained alive only thanks to Aang), and Zuko betrayed her trust and literally said that he did not understand why she was angry with him (although Katara explained to him the reason for her anger a minute ago) and then, according to Katara herself, forced her feeling that she has no choice. I hope you understand that "a partner who respects her, admires her, supports her, cares for her, and loves her just as much as she does him" is pure fanon, and none of this is in the canon (neither in the show itself, nor in post-canonical things)? it's normal that you ship zutaru, and you can read and write as many fanfictions as you want, where Zuko loves Katara, and Katara loves Zuko, but the truth is that the canonical Zuko, the real Zuko, was never in love with Katara, he chose another girl for himself, and had a child with another gir (Mai actually) whether you like it or not. Just like Katara chose another man for herself and lived with him for many decades, gave birth to three children from him. You may think they made a mistake, but it was their choice, and canonically they never considered each other as likely partners. It's weird that you can't understand in any way that canonically there was never anything between Zuko and Katara.

what a pity that avatar: the last airbender ended ten minutes into the southern raiders episode. what a pity that katara never told zuko that she was ready to forgive him, that she never hugged him tenderly, that she never joked with him, supported him, comforted him, and agreed to fight by his side. what a pity that zuko never took a lightning bolt to the heart to protect her, and that katara looked shocked and terrified at the sight. what a pity that she never yelled his name, forgot the incredible danger she was in and tried to run to him and help him. what a pity that katara never took down a firebending prodigy at the height of her power and then rushed to zuko's side and cried when she was able to heal him.

what a pity that they didn't end the show with a beautiful, strong, intimate friendship that provided the perfect foundation for a romance to develop.

i'm not sure if you're aware that fictional characters usually undergo something called development, where they adopt different attitudes, behaviours and feelings from those they held before. i love that katara goes from threatening zuko to fighting for zuko tooth and nail in the finale, because that is called change, and growth, things that are generally considered good and necessary within character arcs and relationships - but i understand you may not be familiar with those concepts in romance, given that you ship kat.aang.

literally said that he did not understand why she was angry with him (although Katara explained to him the reason for her anger a minute ago) and then, according to Katara herself, forced her feeling that she has no choice

it is usually good to provide this little thing called evidence when carrying out analysis.

that is hard to do, of course, when you have none.

You may think they made a mistake, but it was their choice and canonically they never considered each other as likely partners. It's weird that you can't understand in any way that canonically there was never anything between Zuko and Katara.

in case you don't know, zuko and katara aren't real people with free will. their choices are made for them by writers whose job is to make those choices make sense within the scope of their own narrative arcs, and fit the themes and messages of the show. when they fail at that job, audiences are perfectly within their rights to recognize that and examine what could have been done differently.

just because something is canon, that doesn't mean it's immune to criticism. of course i know katara canonically got married to a.ang, and that zuko chose a different partner. that doesn't automatically mean those are the right narrative decisions because - and this may come as a shock to you - engaging critically with media also means looking at the ways in which it fell short and how it could have done better, and the romances in atla are by and large one of its major shortcomings.

[victimsofyaoipoll]

please please Lizzie NEEDS to win this. I understand she's up against katara and the atla fandom was INSANELY against aang x katara back in the olden days (and now she's doubly pushed aside for zukka) but. hear me out.

i admittedly can't really think of any yaoi ships with aang in them and idk if that just wasn't the side of the fandom i was in, but like. i feel like most people just disliked katara x aang on Principle rather than like, because she was Getting In The Way of a Yaoi(tm). so more of just like, a general fandom misogyny thing.

LIZZIE on the other hand. Oh my fucking god. I don't necessarily ship her romantically with ciel because they're both like, what, 14? and cousins? but holy SHIT their relationship is so deep and meaningful.

I'll try to keep this brief so that there's a chance people will actually read this. for some context ciel has a canonical engagement with lizzie— she's his fiance. ciel is also extremely traumatized, and kind of cold to her, and at the beginning of the series you kind of her the impression that he finds her slightly annoying or pestering, but especially as the series progresses you can see that he Cares a Lot about her. a while into the series it's revealed that Lizzie actively Noticed that ciel was suffering and traumatized and she took up swordfighting lessons. to protect him. she is KICKASS and she.... she tries to be cute and pretty most of the time so she doesn't scare him, but when she noticed he was in so much pain and that bad things happened to him she trained herself so that she could protect him. and she DOES protect him and it's fucking awesome. she loves him unconditionally and is completely prepared to give her all to defend him and make him feel safe in a world that has persistently hurt him so many times over. not necessarily romantic love but oh my god that devotion. (and he clearly cares for her and wants to give her the best in return and tries to keep all his dark secrets away from her to protect her from himself and. i just. ausvfhdghddbbdbcm.)

.... except, you know what everyone was talking about instead, in the early 2010s fandom? how ciel should have a romantic relationship with his butler, who is a very powerful demon he has explicitly sold his soul to and who is simply using him and keeping ciel in a miserable and hateful state for his own benefit. barely any positive word about Lizzie who is so fucking cool. admittedly maybe the book of the atlantic arc (where most of those reveals about lizzie were) hadn't come out yet at the time? but like the yaoi crimes against this girl are absurd. no one fucking talks about her!!! even though she is the BEST!!! please vote for my girl who is constantly portrayed as just a stupid ditzy annoying character in the fanon to be forgotten about at best, pushed aside or actively slandered at worst. please please she's so fucking cool

Black Butler season 4 is coming she deserves the win

[ultfreakme]

Nah Zutara is def happening. Two of the writers (Omashu and Into the Dark) are Zutara shippers and liking Zutara content all the time esp about Kiawentiio and Dallas. The Netflix accounts are pushing Zutara like crazy. Albert Kim is an enemies to lovers enthusiast and said that the original endgame ships are up in the air.

I am trying so very hard to be objective about this and so I am going to tell you what I'm seeing in the nicest way possible but I'm really sorry if I can't:

I've checked the official Netflix account, I follow it on twitter, nothing afaik. The closest I found was picture sets but they did it for Dallas and Gordon, Dallas and Ian, Elizabeth Yu and Kiawentiio too, and obviously Gordon and Kiawentiio, all the duos. There's a video clip of Kiawentiio throwing out a question card about if Katara likes Zuko and their first immediate reaction is laughing (and not in a way that's confirming it- like Dallas was about to clap and Ian gave a thumbs-up, not encouraging and they conclude it with saying a lukewarm 'no kinda well' likely because it's spoilers for season 3).

Kiawentiio right after an interviewer mentioned Zutara, she said and I quote ; "What Avatar are you watching?"

Albert Kim on Kataang:

It's being delayed to S2 because the age difference looks way too obvious in live action. It's still happening, just later when the actors look closer in age. They heavily hint towards future Kataang by comparing Aang and Katara to Tui and La on-screen (Yue saying the ocean will forever search for its counterpart while panning between Aang and Katara whos is reaching out for him, and Sokka and Yue where Sokka's begging Yue to stay- it's very on-the nose).

The OG show also had creatives who like Zutara, they inserted bait for it in the chibi shorts but nothing came of it in any canon and everything is steadfastly for Kataang. Heck, currently the cast are pushing Zukka all the time, doesn't mean it's going to be canon(Dallas Liu and Ian Ousley saying "hey ship our characters!" word-for-word does not equal Zuko and Sokka are going to date for real in the show).

It's disappointing that fanon ships aren't canon, but that's just what you sign up for when shipping fanon. You are not going to to get what you want, neither am I.

Kataang is the heart of the show, nothing will take that away and I think it's best to just, make peace with that instead of looking too hard into behind-the-scenes and cast stuff hoping THIS is when it's going to happen(I play along with the Zukka bait because it's funny, not because I think it's going to be real).

Also, writers liking Zutara content? Fine, do you, have a blast! It DOES get weird when they're sincerely promoting Dallas and Kiawentiio as an item though because they met when she was like 15 and he was 19/20, and now she's 17 while he's 22 now. She's a child, he's an adult pretty much their entire work relationship. That's really freaking weird. EDIT: Dallas and Ian, who are the actual adults in the cast have been actively redirecting all ship-related conversations towards themselves and their characters because they CAN handle whatever flame wars erupt from that, meanwhile Gordon and Kiawentiio are children so they shouldn't even be in the discussion as actors when it comes to the fictional ships.