#like THANKS FOR HELPING ME KILL THE ORTHON

[bhaalsdeepbat]

@justabiteofspite pointing out I had Astarion pull the ultimate 10 Charisma King move by having him kiss Gale once (then twice bc the game was bugged) then immediately went into asking Gale about his ex bitch mystra before going to bed

[utterdrip]

starry comp

(astarion romance woods scene) >i could always go again >sure, let’s go

(act iii) idle dialogue about victoria’s body

(act iii, post cazador, spawn) speak to jaheira after the cazador fight with astarion in party

(act iii, spawn, durge accepted bhaal) >when i conquer the world, perhaps i shall spare you

(act i, barbarian*) >smash the magic mirror

(act i, don’t know astarion is a vampire, meet [and kill] gandrel) >cast speak with the dead on gandrel’s corpse to find out his quarry >confront astarion

(act i, underdark, sorcerer) >it’s the flower, my magic is gone

(anytime) >spam click astarion’s profile

(act ii, do not speak with raphael at last light with astarion, have astarion in party approaching mausoleum) >what do you think, astarion?

(act ii, post killing orthon) >repeat after me: thank you for helping me. it was very kind.

(act i, underdark, sorcerer) >it’s the flower, my magic is gone >just my good looks, then

(act i) enter auntie ethel’s home to trigger unique dialogue with astarion

(act i, emerald grove) lae’zel specific idle chatter

(act ii, after breaking up with a different LI) >maybe i like complications. they keep things interesting.

(act iii, post cazador, spawn, pre bhaal confrontation durge) special breakup dialogue

(act iii, sewers) idle chatter in caustic brine room

(act i, underdark, sorcerer) prompted conversation from reaction to sussur trees

*not sure if barbarian specific or just a skill check

[thedomesticanthropologist]

In one of my playthroughs, my Tav is having a TIME with Astarion, and it's a version of his romance I don't see represented online as much and I want to talk about it.

If you choose more lightweight dialogue options, if you don't dig into his mind at the bite scene, if you get his Araj confession instead of his impromptu one,

Then by the end of Act 2, you do *not* have a secure relationship AT ALL, he has never said he's in love, and everything feels REALLY rocky.

All through act 1 he lays on the seduction heavily, but in act 2 a bitch is MAD. He is stressed, he needs to figure out his scars, he feels hunted and un-safe and because of this, he starts to take it out on Tav a bit.

SPOILERS FOR ACT 2:

when Raphael shows up to talk to him, he snaps at Tav saying "don't get in my way". When you do his quest and kill the orthon, you have to PRY a thank you from him by literally telling him to parrot your words ('thank you for helping me, it was very... Kind') and he spits it out like he really, really wasnt intending to say anything in the form of gratitude.

When you talk about what to do about Cazador, my Paladin chose 'youll never be free while he lives' because it's true. If he runs, cazador will hunt him. If cazador lives, he will never stop looking over his shoulder. His reply 'i hate that you're right'

Even when you say you'll join him to hunt his master down, you can watch his facial expressions and see: he's not convinced. Of course he isn't. He's terrified. And is he grateful? Yes, but again, it's guarded.

I then went to moonrise and talked to Araj, and I defended his autonomy 100%.

When his Araj-confession happened, it was absolutely NOT a LOVE confession. It was more like:

"thank you. This made me realize I was still acting like a slave even in freedom, and you supporting me there made me feel like I can start to snap out of that kind set. Sooooo... I should tell you, since you did me a solid, that I was using you for protection and manipulating you up until now"

If you DONT choose the top options, the MOST he tells you about how he feels about you is a single line of dialogue

'imagine my surprise when I started to actually feel... SOMETHING... For you'

This could be friendship, crush feels, etc. It's VERY vague, and important things to note is while WE THE PLAYER know more about him and what he may feel at this point or what he's gone through, YOUR TAV DOESNT.

He does not apologize for using you. He states his regret that his plan failed because he started to value you as a person instead of a tool for him to be used. That admission is his gift back to you for defending him in front of Araj.

If you then choose 'what do YOU want' he approves, but says he doesn't know. And then he defends that 'isnt it nice not to know?' You still get soft faces, your hand held. He's trying to *silently* communicate what he can't bring himself to say, but he *DOESNT* SAY anything to affirm you two are a couple/in a relationship/etc. Just a vague 'lets not talk about it but see where it goes'

Honestly, based on this experience via dialogue choices for this character, it almost seemed to me like "sounds like you need a friend not a lover" makes the MOST SENSE. Of course this is my Astarion Romance run, so my Paladin instead said, basically, I'll wait for you until you're ready. (She chose the 'what do you want,' and let it lay there as is)

Afterwards you can ask about your relationship with him and again, he's flustered, he's hedging, he's defensive, and he brushes it off. He's not ready to talk, he's not ready to commit, he's fully focused on Cazador and his safety.

You enter this waiting period where Tav has been manipulated, spoken down to, snapped at, bitten, and responded to without gratitude, but is ALSO given just the faintest, BAREST glimpse at the vulnerability beneath the surface. The player is being asked at this point to REALLY trust and WAIT without ANY evidence that this relationship could become healthy, or could turn into love, or could because a real relationship. And that's SO NEAT

If you don't romance anyone else and aren't put into the position to choose him, you never get a confirmation of dating. If you get the Araj scene and don't choose hug, and don't force him to confirm he was attracted to you etc, you can literally end the talk on "thanks for defending me, also haha I was using you this whole time just so you know, thanks for being nice about it"

From a Tav point of view, this *could* be fairly devastating, and even if Tav decides to wait and keep supporting him, at this point, even post "confession" there is VERY little evidence that things are gonna get better between you.

We know it does. WE do. We get the access to other dialogue and choices or the other confession IF we chose that. But this, this scene, these dialogue choices REALLY emphasize his Act 3 confession

"you were patient. You waited, through blood lust etc /even when it was an objectively stupid thing to do etc"

Cause yeah. He's RIGHT. If you don't choose VERY specific dialogues to get more out of him, most of his romance up until the Act 3 confession,most of how he treats you, most of how he responds to your decisions in game (if you're playing fairly good and not evil/durge) gives Tav no reason beyond faith to continue to pursue him.

I think he knows this, and it's why he's surprised when you state you don't want him for sex. Because up until Act 3, he KNOWS how he's been treating Tav and even HE wouldn't have stood for it if the roles were reversed, so h thinks 'it must be because I'm good in bed'. Then he takes the sex away and you still stay? Even when he's chasing power, hunting for revenge, snapping at you, refusing to commit?

It's a powerful story line. It's so engaging. And it has room for SO MUCH ANGST

Anyways thanks for coming to my Ted Talk

[bara-izu]

Would Halion be sad as well hearing astarion's backstory?

Cause I definitely did 😭😭😭

*Story Spoiler warning / me rambling about my Tav*

Yeah he was pretty devastated... He understood the small parts Astarion told him early on, he knew cazador was a bad person and it fueled a desire to help this random guy claim back his freedom. The vampire part was of course a surprise, Halion can be a little naive so it gave him whiplash lol

But as their journey continued he started to pick up on Astarion's reactions, realising just how much abuse he had endured...

Being a teifling, Halion was able to read the inscription on Astarion's back and help translate it, he of course didn't quite understand it fully, since it was only a fragment of a larger manuscript, but just the fact someone could do that made him angry...

Another case being the drow in moonrise who looked at Halion like he was Astarion's handler, the whole interaction made him mad. He basically told the drow to fuck off.

This followed the interaction with the hug scene

Then jump forward to after killing the orthon, being sarcastic with the "repeat after me: thank you for helping me, it was very kind" - Halion is up for banter, but the way Astarion replied in such a monotone, obedient way made him instantly regret it...

Arriving in Baldur's Gate, paying a visit to the Tabernacle, when astarion says he is not religious because "beleive me, I tried praying to them all, but none of them listened" struck a chord with his devoted Lathander ass...

- Fast forward again to the Szarr palace -

Halion decked Godey. Goodbye skellyman. Fuck you. The palace was not a fun place, and he recognised it brought up some not great memories, reading Cazador's journal also filled up his anger meter... But also admittedly Halion was taken back by the interactions with the spawn in the dungeon. He knew through Astarion's admittance that he himself was just a means of "protection" when they first met, that it was instinctive for him to seduce people as a means to an end. But hearing Astarion agree that Halion could have been one of the victims lured to the palace was a bit of an awakening. Astarion was also very defensive for a lot of the things that he did, flipently pushing the blame. There was a weird mix of emotions, on one hand Halion knew it wasnt Astarion's fault since he had to follow orders, but on the other hand, he felt understandably upset/frustrated.

During the confrontation with Cazador, he stayed silent as he felt it wasn't his place to say anything, instead, got ready to blind him with the sun >:)

The final thing, finding out how old Astarion was before he turned, (possibly a mistraslation so don't come after me) but believed to be about 39 when he died, wrecked him. Firstly, that is a similar age to what Halion is now, secondly in high elf culture, elves are seen as mature 'adults' around 100 years, so not only had astarion spent more time as a slave, then not, but also he was so young when it happened... Halion wants to take the opportunity now to show him the kind of life he should be living at that age.

But in general didn't want to pity Astarion. He is a survivor, he is strong, he is stronger than the person Cazador thought he 'made' him, and he was incredibly proud of his actions in the dungeon. (Stopping the ritual, setting the spawn free)

So yeah, he was very sad, but also incredibly angry on Astarion's behalf, he wants to show he is there as a supportive figure, that it's okay to be vulnerable around him, but also not smother him because he recognises he finally has that independence back :') Bonus for getting this far: (enjoy some cute/silly screenshots)

[clazberryk]

HALP.

My lovely Baldurs gate peeps. I need you to answer me something.

So in my recent replays of the game I never seem to trigger stations simple plan speech. It is always the you are a complication I never saw. Speech. The one where he says thank you after telling that drow he is his own person.

Now I think it’s down to 2 things. When I do the shadow cursed lands I always go to the house of healing first (for the lute) and I kill malis. Then I do the bar and then the roll collector. After that I go to the mausoleum to prompt Raphael’s cut scene regarding the orthon. Then o do not go in.

I infiltrate moonrise. Do everything in them. Saving the prisoners the very last thing before I leave. Then I take the boat to last light with them and then long rest. Which prompts the thank you scene with our favourite vampire.

I will then speak to gallon and do the shadow not cursed thingy then finally move into general thos tomb and do all the lady shad stuffs Orthon Included.

Now my question is. Should I kill the orthon first when I originally prompt Raphael’s cut scene. Then leave the mausoleum once Yurgir is dead and then do everything else?

Or has that simple plan cut scene just been written over because my approval rating with Astarion is always exceptional by this point?

Please can someone clarify this. Because o do like that nice simple plan/can we talk scene.

@roguishcat @shewhowas39 @slothquisitor @loquaciousquark @asweetlovesong

Any help would be grateful.

[wednesdayche]

how to gain Minthara's approval and trigger her romance scene while being neutral:

Thanks 顾冼_ for all her Minthara videos and those kind souls in the comments.

I will update when I have time ❤️

--------------SPOILER-------------

Q1: Can I romance Minthara while keeping Wyll and Karlach in my party?

A: Yes! We're doing a neutral playthrough. As long as you don't kill tieflings or tell Minthara the location, they won't leave your party. And they're fine with your thirst for Minthara. You can ignore Minthara back in goblin camp and kill the rest. Just stay away from where she stands.

Q2: I can start her romance without the goblin party?

A: Yes, you can. Being neutral means there'll be NO party night. You'll miss this opportunity to start her romance, but you can still romance her in ACT2 and even in ACT3 as long as you get her approval high.

Another thing that you might wanna know is whether you sleep with her or not her approval point is the same, ZERO, after she joins you. So what's all the killing for? And she'll even question you why you killed those tieflings...

Q3: Can I romance other companions?

A: Yes and no. The party night is an important event where you can trigger your companions' romance scenes. So it's harder to start a romance when you are playing neutral. But yes you can romance others before Minthara joins your squad. Have an exhausting night with Lae'zel or offer yourself to the vampire, it's ok. The journey is long and tav needs company at night. Just try to avoid triggering the second romance scene. If you trigger that, turn them down. Since you're trying to woo our drow princess, show loyalty!

Seriously, it may cause bugs so you can't romance Minthara later. And she really doesn't like being cheated on. Like if you sleep with the devil mommy, she'll break up with you and threaten you.

Q4: Why does Minthara accusing me of cheating on her out of no reason?

A: Bug perhaps. Go to Sharess' Caress and talk with the drow twins. If she threatens you, then you are safe.

Q5：Minthara joins my party at the end of ACT2, how can I get her points?

A: Rearrange your schedule and save her ASAP, and take her wherever you go.

You can go the moonrise tower without lantern. There is a place at the bottom of the map where you can jump to the other side where the tower is. Use spells like enhance leap, dimension door or misty step, your squad can reach the light within one turn. You'd better find the portal in shadowed battlefield before this.

---------------------------------------

Here's a list of how to make her approval high in ACT2 to start her romance.

Before she joins your party, your choice will not affect her approval points. So don't worry that she will disapprove if you try to save her out in a peaceful, or in other words, coward way.

Last Light Inn:

refuse to drink Jaheira's wine (+1)

agree to help Marcus to kidnap Isobel (+1)

then tell Isobel that Marcus wanna kidnap her (+5)

before telling Isobel you can also use tadpole to reach deeper in Marcus's mind (+5)

The Waning Moon:

pass all the checks (+5)

you can also just choose to attack. She'll approve but I forgot how many points you can get.

House of Healing:

kill the doctor with silver tongue (+1)

Toolhouse:

kill Gerringothe Thorm with silver tongue (+1)

Moonrise Tower:

The narrator will remind you that you are taking a prisoner with you before you enter the tower with Minthara. Keep her close.

free Barnabus the gnoll from the abusolute (+1)

meet z'rell and talk about what you've done with the goblins (+1)

Shar Temple:

steal Balthazar's mother's urn and refuse to give it back (+1)

you'll be in combat but worth a try XD

talk with the displacer beast, call her slave, "in love with an  orthon?", then "love is a disease" (+1)

kill Dame Aylin (+1) ...well it's an option

Necrotic Laboratory:

consume the waking mind (+1)

fresh mind-"you'll never wake again, little one" (+1)

purge the pods (+1)

After the final battle:

you can gain 16 points after talking with her on the throne. pick the options about power and revenge.

Camp:

tbc...

[dopepoisonivyoncrack]

Far from me to treat Astarion like a Fabergé egg, but I do think making Astarion to say "Thank you for helping me, it was very kind" is just mean and unnecessary.

It's not the same like when asking Lae'zel to say 'Thank you'. Even the dialogue option is formulated with different nuance. For Lae'zel, who has been rude and condescending the whole time, its just a simple request to say 'thank you'. She says it like its no big deal, but didn't knew it was necessary or that important to me.

With Astarion, the formulation is condescending, "Repeat after me: thank you for helping me, it was very kind". I could never be smug about this or get any satisfaction in becoming just another one in his life that forces him to do anything or put words in his mouth, especially ones to praise me. I think he had enough of that for the last 2 centuries. He is not just some arrogant guy that needs to be teached a humility lesson, or say thank you. He knew nothing but humiliation and his body forced to do things against his will. He knows how to say thank you, and is more beautiful and satisfying when he does so sincerely and with free will. Not a coincidence he thanks you over and over exactly for respecting his autonomy and free will.

Besides, he is not ungrateful for killing the orthon, but not feeling so high about it yet as to voice it. From where he stands, and he says so, it isn't over until Raphael tells him about the scars. Emotionally, he just got off a rollercoaster ride, because he was very anxious about killing the orthon. If the orthon isn't killed right away, he becomes desperate, he fears the player will betray him, that his plan failed, that he will never get to know what his scars mean, that Cazador still has the upper hand, that bad things will happen to him etc. etc. You can read it on his face in the background, he voices his concern to the player and tries to persuade them to stop chatting and start fighting. Killing the orthon calms him down, doesn't grow his excitement to start thaking you, especially if you added to his worries by delaying the situation with dialogues.

Also, he already doesn't do anything without permission from Tav/Durge, always checks, always asks, sometimes in a way that makes it clear that isn't just because the player has control over the game, but because he is still running on the 'obedient dog' mode. How could I ever get any satisfaction in forcing such a guy to say things to me??

To be clear, I'm not saying its not ok for others to choose the option. It is a dialogue option, if that fits the character and their dynamic with Astarion. But I don't think its as funny and deserved as many make it to be.

[wellthebardsdead]

Astarion: Lucy, you’re, a devil, correct?

Lucy: yep, still, coming to terms with that. What’s up?

Astarion: you offered to help me understand what’s on my back so- what do you want in return? Devils always want something in return.

Lucy: just you being my friend is enough.

Astarion: I?… that’s all?

Lucy: yep. Right then. So, your scars are one of 7, the others are on the backs of your ‘siblings’, the other spawn cazador sired. It’s part of an infernal contract between him and the arch devil Mephistopheles. 7 spawn, 7000 souls. One, ascended vampire. He sacrifices you and the 7000 victims you and your siblings lured back for him and in return he gains power. The power to enjoy everything life has to offer, including walking in the sun. But, Mephistopheles doesn’t just set about making deals with mortals willy nilly. 7000 souls is no mere trifle even to the lord of the 8th, but he’d always want more, and he can get more himself if he had a vessel to possess out of the hells.

Astarion: he intends to possess cazador or- whomever completes this ritual?

Lucy: exactly.

Astarion: I see- wait- 7000 souls? The ones we lured ba- no, no they’re already dead though?

Lucy: undead. And underground. Caged in a dungeon only accessible through a lift in his private study.

Astarion: an underground dungeon? Look- I- Ugh I know I was a prisoner there for 200 years but I was still allowed to roam about most of the palace. I think I’d of heard about a hidden lift and a secret dungeon.

Lucy: Sebastian.

Astarion: what?…

Lucy: he’d never been kissed. You taught him how to.

Astarion: h-he was… one of my firsts… how do you know-

Lucy: a hundred and seventy years he’s been down there. Feral, hungry and afraid… the Gur children you kidnapped are down there too… they’re all down there… and I hope when the time comes you’ll make the right choice Astarion… as for how I know-… I still don’t know how to explain it… goodnight Astarion.

Astarion: I, g-goodnight. Thank you, for this.

*a few days later*

Lucy: *back at camp after killing Yurgir, poking the fire as Raphael approaches her from behind* hello dear.

Raphael: Alright. Who do you have spying on me?! Who sent you and how?! Are all these cambions so subservient to you?! Subservient to a point where they willingly guided an entire caravan of refugees to last light inn just to be certain none of them would get killed?! Who are you?!

Lucy: I told you, my names Lucy, and it’s not my fault your moves are predicable. Your spy Korrilla is ridiculously bad at hiding too.

Raphael: how do you know her name?!

Lucy: *smiles enjoying seeing the vein in his forehead pulse* I told you. I know things~ and I know now, you, owe us a favour for getting rid of the orthon. Just, like, you, promised~

Raphael: *clenches his jaw* I- Arghh, fine. I despise verbal contracts. What do you want?

Lucy: nothing, yet. Goodnight. *smiles walking back to her tent leaving the devil looking like his heads about to explode*

Raphael: You- ARGHHH! *turns to leave*

Astarion: Wait, you owe us a favour and I’d like to cash in on it.

Raphael: oh? And what is it you want?

Astarion: when the time comes for me to face down Cazador… I want the means cure myself, and all the other spawn he sired of vampirism.

Raphael: *brain just stopping as he tries to think of how he’ll explain this away to his father without being skinned alive* Surely you’d like something else-

Astarion: we had an arrangement did we not? I want a cure.

Raphael: oh gods, fine. Fine… I’ll see what I can do.

[rottenbrainstuff]

BG3 playthrough question: I was fooling around today skipping ahead to check things and I have a question:

Astarion act 2 romance: does anyone know at all what reliably triggers the alternate confession scene, rather than the thanking scene after talking to Araj? (I like the dialogue of that one a lot better, plus I’m curious cause the internet is NOT giving me reliable info)

I’m at max approval and have been since close to the start of act 2.

It didn’t trigger after I dealt with the orthon. Then again, I didn’t fight him, I got him to kill himself. Is that what needs to happen?

It also didn’t trigger after we arrived at Moonrise.

Online is absolutely no help at all, everyone is just guessing or saying it’s tied to X or Y thing which I’ve already tried.

EDIT: I figured it out, they do NOT make it easy do they? I killed the orthon, talked to Raphael, and camped in moonrise towers a couple of times to get the alternate scene. Lots of hoops to jump through but I like the dialogue better, it’s worth it.

[ryttu3k]

So this next update is from the Gauntlet of Shar through to the end of act 2 and I have *checks* 690 caps so. This'll go fine.

We head into the (creepy, creepy) Gauntlet. Well, first the tomb, which confirmed a theory, then to the Gauntlet. Shadowheart talks about the tasks required to become a Dark Justiciar and everyone exchanges nervous glances hearing about a sacrifice, because. It's fine. This is fine, right.

I feel the highlighted text is basically the arc line for every companion story.

Just going to transcribe this bit because... image limit, but there was a very interesting exchange between Shadowheart and Halsin here:

Shadowheart: "Lady Shar… so many must have toiled to make a visage so grand. It's beautiful…" Halsin: "Shar's armies of destruction arose from within these halls." Shadowheart: "Those who do not listen to the reason of Lady Shar's words must instead feel the keenness of her blade." Halsin: "You sound like a student - reciting words for a test without considering their meaning." Shadowheart: "I've considered them plenty. Besides, Lady Shar favours actions over words. Try it out, sometime."

Huh!

Balthazar confirmed for creepy. "We're still close. She's in a jar on the shelf over there :)"

Did the first trial, the invisible path one. Shadowheart died several times. I savescummed and used a guide until I got it right. Next, the battle with the orthon. Not sure if it was a glitch but I didn't even get the chance to talk to the guy, alas. Wyll came in very handy here, since he levelled up to 11 just in time to learn a portal spell, so we could basically sneak up.

Astarion: "The orthon is nothing. I'll have my satisfaction when Raphael makes good on his word." Tae: "Repeat after me: Thank you for helping me, it was very kind." Astarion: "Hmm. Hrmmm. Thank you for helping me, it was very kind :|"

Marvellous facial expression here. But no disapproval!

Then, speak of the devil - here's Raphael, here to deliver his promise to Astarion, telling him what the scars mean. tfw you find out you have an infernal pact meant to kill you and elevate your abuser of two centuries to extreme never-before-seen power.

Astarion: "Hmm…" Tae: "Cazador is a piece of shit. We're going to stop him." Astarion: "Do you think it's so simple?" Tae: "You'll never be free while Cazador lives." Astarion: "I hate how right you are. I knew he wouldn't leave me alone even when I was just another wretched toy for him to play with. But if I'm the key to this power he craves, he'll hunt me to the ends of Faerûn. I need to take the fight to him. And I need you to help me." Tae: "Of course I'll help. We'll hunt him down and kill him." Astarion: "Thank you."

Yeah I am thinking thoughts about that, "I need you to help me" part and the, "I'm not used to asking for help and being met with, well... help" line (when Raphael reveals his scars). Yeah, he's scared out of his mind over what Cazador has the power to do to him, and it could just be sheer desperation, but it could also be that he is starting to trust his friends.

One of my favourite parts, now - the companions have their say. My favourite response is from Karlach, as seen in this post, but they're all. So good <3 Fuck you, Cazador, you're not touching our friend! Here's all of them:

Karlach: "Wish I could say I was surprised about Cazador's pact. Where blood, death, and betrayal parade, you can bet your arse a devil is riding grand marshal. We're going to keep Astarion safe. On my life, Cazador won't touch him."

Lae'zel: "Full-fledged vampires are not so easily slain. Astarion's master will be no exception. Fortunate for him, slaying monstrous fanatics is a pastime of ours."

Gale: "I can't imagine how Astarion must be feeling. The terms of your own condemnation carved into your skin… A monster's actions. And monsters do not deserve such power as that ritual promised. When the time comes, Astarion will have his revenge, I'm sure. And it will be richly deserved."

Shadowheart: "It seems like Cazador used Astarion's flesh not as a canvas, but as a contract. We haven't heard the last of this, I'll wager."

Wyll: "Our very own vampire's the missing pawn in his master's deadly game. Now how about we go and reverse Cazador's fortunes?"

Back to the Gauntlet! We complete the other two trials, albeit not just with Shadowheart - Astarion does the sneaking one on his own, and, well, the whole squad goes in for the duplicate one, haha. Then... it's time to jump into the Shadowfell, to find this relic to stop Ketheric, and for Shadowheart to do the last part of the Gauntlet, to become a Dark Justiciar.

Naturally, it doesn't run smoothly. Shadowheart declares that Balthazar has interfered in Shar's plans for too long, and it's time for a fight! We beat him, and that leaves... Shadowheart, to face off with the relic keeping Ketheric alive, and her intended sacrifice to become a Dark Justiciar: Aylin, the Nightsong, daughter of Selûne.

Funny how those things so often coincide. Training the weapons of Shar on the undying body of her own niece, and also the one directly connected with the plot.

Had to do a reset here, because I was nooot going to pass that DC 30 persuasion check (the correct method is to trust Shadowheart to her own actions, let Aylin talk to her, then pass the now-DC 21 check. If you talk to her after failing the DC 30 one, you have to fight and kill her. Not ideal!!). Still had to ask a pointed question, though - "Is this what you truly want?"

(Arc words!!)

Shadowheart is convinced - and hurls the spear she received from the Gauntlet into the void. Then freaks a little because oh god oh fuck she defied her goddess.

Aylin proceeds to steal the show by producing a shining set of armour and a big set of wings, nbd you see that all the time. She gives Shadowheart a Selûnite spear to replace the one she discarded, and then gives the next mission:

Onwards! We return to the outside of the Gauntlet - only to find that in those few seconds, Shadowheart has been blocked from leaving by Shar then tortured and banished holy shit ;_;

Larian why did you not give me an option to say, "You're not alone, you'll never have to be alone again, you have us"? ;_; Once again, the companions can voice that, but damn, I really wanted to tell her. Here are their comments:

Halsin: "Shar's ire has shaken Shadowheart… and yet she goes on. There is untold strength there, I feel."

Wyll: "She called Shadowheart 'nothing'. But I know better than that. She is something. She is worthy, she is strong. She is Shadowheart. Nothing can take the her from her. Not even a goddess."

Astarion: "I suppose it was only a matter of time until Shar took vengeance. For the Lady of Loss, she does not like losing."

Karlach: "I hate seeing Shadowheart suffer like this. All for doing the right thing. It's up to us to look after her now. If she needs a rest, we carry her. If she needs a hand, she has ours. If she needs ears, we've got four between us. Whatever she needs."

Lae'zel: "Shadowheart suffers. You might be surprised, but - it pains me to see."

Gale: "Poor Shadowheart. The gods are nothing if not vindictive in their vengeance."

Best lines here go to Karlach (again) and Wyll. So much love and support! And even Lae'zel!

Still, there's a fight ahead! We hurry back to Moonrise Tower, where there are fights ahead, battling our way to the top to get to Ketheric. Tae tries to extend mercy, understanding what happened to his wife; neither Ketheric nor Aylin are having it, and Ketheric strikes out. Tae and the others are saved with the Prism - and that, unfortunately, reveals that, yes, Tae has the Prism.

Whoops.

(I really like this cap the lighting is so pretty here.)

Big fight. Followed by big tentacle. Followed by big complaint.

Sorry Astarion you may need some new boots after that.

Lae'zel: "We must be ready to confront the elder brain. One presides over every ghaik colony." Astarion: "No problem. And what does this old brain look like?" Lae'zel: "A hovering mass of grey matter, sprouted with lethal tentacles and oozing cerebrospinal fluid?" Astarion, having a day: "Right!! Good!! Glad I asked!!!"

First up, a meeting with Chop. This is... depressing. Free at last, Chop.

Also free: kitty :) Welcome back, Us!

Also depressing: the fact that there are letters to the Absolute from children oh god what the fuck.

Over to the tadpoling centre, where we find Zariel's asset - Mizora herself. Who proceeds to say she'll free Wyll... within the next six months or so. Man c'mon.

To mixed approval (Shadowheart and Halsin's) and disapproval (Lae'zel and Astarion's), we also free the others in the tanks. This includes Zevlor, and Fist members - and a few fully-grown newborn Mind Flayers whoops.

Win the battle, talk to Zevlor to work out what the actual fuck happened. It's not pretty, but Tae tries to be understanding.

Another excursion, this time to some kind of lab. Get a neat sword! There are some interesting brain jars we can interact with, genuinely curious to see what response you'd get from the brain jars from the Nautilus. Oh well. Get a nice permanent boost to Int rolls!

Into the depths of the colony, then, where Gortash fled to. He's there, yes - as are Orin, a pale, creepy-looking woman, and... Enver Gortash, the one who betrayed Karlach to Zariel.

They reveal, then, the Absolute - an Elder Brain, controlled by an immensely powerful Netherese crown, controlled by the three stones the trio hold.

Gale prepares to carry out Mystra's orders; Tae is only just able to talk him down, convinced there's another way. (My graphics were not having it at this point.)

Gale: "Look at that crown. It radiates with power unlike anything I've ever seen. To have it… to hold… If only I could… But I can't… This is it. I must do as Mystra commands." Tae: "Gale, you cannot do this. You can't condemn us to death." Gale: "What choice do I have? More than just a goddess counts on my courage: whole worlds hang in the balance." Tae: "Trust me, Gale. We'll find another way." Gale: "I do trust you. More than myself right now. Perhaps even more than Mystra. I… I have no desire to end your life, you know that. To end it… To struggle on… It is a grave choice you're making for us both, but if it must be so - very well, I'll stand down to stand by you."

;_; Literally the only reason he doesn't kill himself at a goddess's command is because a friend asks him to. God that's so sad. (And I'm sure that crown thing won't come back in any way, I'm sure!)

Controlling the elder brain, they infect their prisoner - Duke Ravengard, Wyll's father. Orin and Gortash leave with the newly-infected Duke, ready to start the attack on Baldur's Gate, and that leaves us with Ketheric, and the newly imprisoned Aylin restoring his immortality. Time for a major battle to free Aylin and take Ketheric down!

Which succeeds, up until, well...

I call this cap 'well, that escalated'.

Anyway I'm really glad that I had the mod that let me have all nine characters (plus Aylin) fighting because the Ketheric-as-apostle monster thing had 181 HP. Aylin goes in on him to finish him off with extreme prejudice (Lae'zel, the closest at hand, had this expression I can only called 'scaroused'), Tae takes the stone from Ketheric's armour, and we finally meet the Dream Visitor in the flesh.

They reveal who the three are - Ketheric was the Chosen of Myrkul, Lord of Bones. From the way Orin spoke, she's a follower of Bhaal, God of Murder. And Gortash is a follower of Bane, God of Tyranny. This is what the Absolute is - an enslaved elder brain manipulated into service by the Chosen of the Dead Three.

So nbd!!

We leave the ship, get back to Moonrise Towers. Karlach is Not Pleased to learn Gortash's involvement. Which is. Understandable.

Yeah we're definitely going to kick his ass.

Gale's also having some thoughts - about that Netherese crown the elder brain was wearing. He decides they'll check out Sorcerous Sundries in Baldur's Gate. Still a bit concerned here, Gale!!

Wyll gives us our next destination - Wyrm's Rock fortress. All roads to Baldur's Gate lead to it - and it's also headquarters for the Flaming Fist, led by one Duke Ravengard. Probably a good idea to prevent him opening the doors for the Absolute's army! He also opens up about his past, about why he made a pact with Mizora. He was only seventeen at the time...

Karlach: "She never stops, does she. Not for a second."

Also at Moonrise Towers - Withers. He has... concerning things to say about their opponents.

Good to hear!!

Some happiness - a reunion between Aylin, and her lover, Isobel. With Isobel's father and Aylin's captor, Ketheric, now gone, each believing the other was dead, they can finally be together again <3

They head off to, er, "take succour in one another's bodies and words" ("Aylin 😳"), and we catch up with Alfira, who's here with a lot of the others from the Last Light. She wants to write a song for the kids to enjoy, but needs another Bard, and where will she find one of those?

Tae pretty much scruffs Astarion and shoves him Alfira-wards. God bless multiclass mods :)

Astarion earns 3g :)

We talk to Art Cullagh. He's doing better. Not entirely sure what he thinks of the modern-day Flaming Fist, but Duke Ravengard seems to be a good sort. He'll wait to see Thaniel when he fully wakes up, and then... yeah, who knows?

Back to camp! We have a lot of interesting conversations. One with Astarion, about what he plans to do with the ritual - he admits he's tempted, and if it means sacrificing his siblings...

Astarion: "I never saw myself as a banisher of shadows. I was always more a 'lurker in', historically." Tae: "I wanted to ask about Cazador's ritual. You must be thinking about it?" Astarion: "The thing that will decide my fate forevermore? Yes, it has been on my mind!! Why~?" Tae: "All that power - you must be tempted to take it for yourself." Astarion: "Well, of course I've thought about it. If I completed the ritual instead of Cazador, I'd get all that power. And I could walk in the sun without fear I'd turn into a mind flayer." Tae: "And the souls that need to be sacrificed?" Astarion: "I don't relish it, but my siblings lured thousands of people to their deaths over the years. I doubt Baldur's Gate would miss them. Of course, I don't even know if I could complete the ritual. It may be impossible - but it certainly is tempting."

In-character-wise, I kind of wanted to have Tae like... set up the acknowledgement that, yes, it's tempting. It also comes with a whopping cost. Just gotta think about that.

Talked to Karlach about Gortach. He is, in her words, an evil, evil bastard and we're going to kick his arse into the hells.

Talked to Halsin about Thaniel. He and Oliver are both recovering - what will happen next depends on them. They may return to be one - but Halsin kind of hopes they won't. It's always nice to have a friend. (An interesting note: Halsin says he has everything he wants, now, "But perhaps there is more than I want." Tae... does not touch that with a barge pole, because they've pretty firmly placed Halsin in the category of 'You remind me of my Grandpa :)' and they are Not Going There! Wyll's expressed interest, Halsin, go try him.)

Shadowheart is... doing okay.

She'll be okay <3

Conversations with Isobel, who talks about how she met Aylin, and Aylin, who is Extremely Dramatic, but also she's a demigod who just killed her tormentor of a hundred years and been reunited with her "mate most high, darling Isobel", so we'll allow it XD Aylin is Selûne's gift to aid the world in the fight against the Dead Three, which. Handy!

And onwards to Baldur's Gate! The Dream Visitor speaks to Tae again, instructing them to gather their allies, especially when they get to the city. "Baldur's Gate may not know it yet, but its fate is bound to ours."

One last obstacle before leaving Reithwin - a Githyanki patrol. We're warned by the artefact Voss left us, and are able to fight them off. Lae'zel gets very Intense.

"It is as we knew. My people have turned their blades against us. They will emerge from the shadows and descend from the skies. And we will grant them their only just fate: death."

I can't wait until she punches Vlaakith in the face.

Next stop: Act 3, and Baldur's Gate!

[sorrelchestnut]

One slight correction: it's not the exact same line. Crucially, in Act 1, he doesn't say "thank you" in the middle, the way he does in Act 3. Which I love because it resonates so nicely with one of my favorite shithead moments in Act 2, after helping him kill the Orthon. "Repeat after me: 'Thank you for helping me, it was very kind.'" He looks like a cat that just got spritzed with a water bottle but does, reluctantly, comply. And to go from that to the utter sincerity, the shaken-voice broken intensity of that one little 'thank you' in Act 3... it's such a fucking fantastic throughline, I can't let it pass unremarked.

So, I wanted to rant about ascended Astarion a bit. I think a lot of people try to look at it and maybe only see some of his dialogue, and decide that because his decision was to ascend, then this is the best one for him, or for the romance. This is specifically for a romance perspective. Btw, ascend him away, do it, I am not saying it is a bad choice, I am saying that it is an interesting one that should be seen clearly because it is written so so well.

First of all, I want to say that the core of this path, in my opinion, is confirming his fear. The world is NOT kind. The world is cruel, and the only thing that can protects him is power.

The note on him wanting more vengeance is that he is scared, deep down. He will also refuse to say Cazador's name, something that spawn Astarion can and will discuss with player character.

By letting him ascend, you did not see him. You did not see the moments of guilt and hesitation that he showed to you in his journey through the palace, or through the game in general. You did not see that he could be something else or that he did not need power to feel safe. I know some people do not like the "persuasion" choice, but the sentence is so short, it is just a moment, where the MC will show him that he CAN be something different. It is not easy returning to a place of such horribly long abuse, be surrounded by such violence, and remember that just a few seconds before... well, he was admitting that he saw himself in the spawns in the cells, as something pathetic that needs to be destroyed.

LOVE

Something interesting in the vampire ascended route is how much you can talk about love. Two of the options in particular are at the first night, if you can ask him what he learnt from this experience.

If you select that you hoped he would learn to love you, then this is his answer, which makes it seem like the game almost calls out the player: Is this not enough? Then this is not the route for you.

He is offering you this eternity and power and that is love for him. Later, he will also tell you "I love you, isn't this what you want to hear?". He knows what you want, and he is giving it to you, but how much of this is what he wants?

Differently from spawn Astarion there is no way to ask him here, no way to complete his arc with the third and last "What do you want?" question.

The other is related to love, you can tell him that you hoped he would learn that sex and relationships are not about power, to which he angrily replies that EVERYTHING is about power. By letting him ascend, you confirmed to him that this is true. Power is what he needed to be safe, power is what he needed to escape. Power over others is the only thing that can work and basically... exists. So even sex and relationships are about power.

In the talk just after you let him ascend, you get something similar, where he looks at you and says that you, like all the lowly creatures who desire to serve, are also awaiting his command. He sees everything as a power struggle, now.

The third mention of love is actually after you break up with him. You can see it here in this video. He pronounce the word "love" with disgust, and says that that is the game he knows, so he will play it, but that he respects you for not allowing him to destroy your love.

SELF HATRED

As I said at the start, this choice of letting him ascend is based in reinforcing the idea that the world is dangerous, sex and relationships are power struggles (and he WILL turn yours into one too), and that there is no kindness, that he should be scared.

There is also a deep level of self hatred and disgust. He wants to cut ties completely with his old self, so much that if you tell him you miss his former self he will be shocked. The dialogue in screenshots is not enough to convey the emotion so I'd recommend checking a video:

Here too:

Instead of embracing the journey and continuing, the cuts himself from his past self completely. This is quite heartbreakingly realistic.

A TRANSACTION

Another thing that is easy to notice is the transactional feel of this relationship. After he expresses surprise that you let him kill all those people, he asks you what he can do for you, what you desire. One of the options is "I want your body", to which he answers "You earned it."

This is the character who had gone through a whole arc about how sex used to be transactional (he offers you his body in exchange for the bite, if you get him to proposition before the party, he seduces you for protection), and had to ask to the player to go slow, because he never really knew what intimacy really was without sex as something transactional being involved.

Here, he is offering you his body as something you earned, as a reward.

Regarding the sex scene... seeing both this and the spawn one with the free camera mod, I could see that the movements are the same - the difference is that ascended continues to show sex, and they are naked... and spawn is more hesitant. You can see it in the way he hesitates after he pushes Tav down.

You can compare the videos (ascended here, THEY ARE NAKED use caution, and spawn here). The scenes are like NIGHT AND DAY.

Ascended Astarion does not push you, he does not crawl over you, he does not even seem to make much eye contact (images of ascended is from the video I posted the link of).

Look at the eye contact in spawn Astarion.

The whole scene is completely different.

OWNERSHIP

"How is being beholded to one another too different from being enslaved"

This is one of the things ascended Astarion tells the player if you break up with him, after a couple of nights. He will reveal that he would have used your trust and love until you were nothing. There are many MANY ways Astarion expresses ownership over you.

One example comes from meeting Araj:

Here he is referring to the fact that Araj thought him your slave, but now it is you who belongs to Astarion.

Another small moment is when you can ask him "Are you going to compel me like Cazador did with you?" He doesn't even reassure you, or deny it, he tells you "Why would I need you, you are going to be obedient." The key word here is obedient.

This is reminiscent of one of Cazador's rules "Thou shalt obey me in all things".

Coincidentially, a few lines after, Astarion even tells you his version of Cazador's third rule "thou shalt not leave my side":

And "Thou art mine":

Notice that you can ask him in game "you made me a spawn, what will happen to him" and he won't reply, he will just correct you on the word, saying that consort is so much better. There is another two occasions where he will talk about his desires to what will happen with you. One time he mentions that he wishes he could sequester you in his palace, but that will have to wait, and in another occasion you can remark (after break up) that he would have treated you like furniture and he does not deny. If you play as Durge and you choose Bhaal, he will laugh about you sitting naked in his lap, while he gives order to his horde, from HIS palace.

There is an ownership in the whole dialogue choices of this path that is really hard to miss.

BREAKING UP... 4 days later

Another interesting thing is that if you choose the harshest break up options he will say "There you are, the real you shows himself at last." And yet, indipendently from it, any kind of break up will end up in an aftermath scene.

This scene will trigger three nights (or two?) after, and Astarion will say some very interesting thing. I posted the whole scene here, but basically... he will reveal that he respects you for breaking up with him, he did not think you had it in him.

The difference with the wisdom check is glaring:

CAZADOR's WORDS

I already talked about how Astarion's words kind of betray the start of his intentions to almost adopt (maybe unconsciously) Cazador's rules. This is not surprising given that the game explicitly calls his story a cycle of abuse and power, and like Cazador's got his rules from his previous master, Astarion did from Cazador. I also noticed in other moments that Astarion uses similar words to Cazador's.

Pet. One of the things Astarion will often call the player is pet. This is something similar to using "pup" in act 1, during the party, but as far as I remember never repeated (Cazador also calls Astarion a "disobedient pup"). The important thing is that you can call him out on it "I am not your pet". He says he is just joking, life is a joke!

Little wretch, cattle, stupid. There are all things that Cazador called him or used in general. I will need to dig deeper to find them all, but the most interesting one was for me "pet". I might be wrong, but I think this is something Astarion uses only post ascenscion.

KARLACH

I don't want to talk too much about Karlach because I did not play as her yet, but I know that she has a whole new path for this... and it is not a good one. Astarion's first sex night with her has him horribly aggressive and nasty, because of his own insecurities (confirmed by the devnotes). And Astarion's sex night when he ascend is even worse.

He will be so overcome by his new power to believe that he can bite her anyway, even with her engine. He will end up hurting himself and immediately accusing her of being broken, not normal, of reuining everything. Even after Karlach tries to tell him that it is not her fault.

Absolutely horrible. Given Karlach is the player character, the same would have happened to any Tav is something had prevented Astarion from biting them.

You can see the video here.

WHAT DO YOU WANT?

To conclude, Astarion's character goes through a complete arc of finding out what he wants and being seen as spawn Astarion, while ascended Astarion goes through a complete arc of finding out that power is the one thing that can save him and protect him, and obtaining it, so much that he basically owns you too.

It is two completely journey, and I think both with a satisfying conclusion.

One follows the trails of asking Astarion "What do you want?" and the other follows the trail of Astarion asking you what you want and telling you this is what you might want.

In the case of ascended Astarion, the final "what do you want" (after act 1, where he deflects, and act 2 where he says he doesn't know, he never tried it before) is "You, this", this being the safety you offered, being seen. He remarks about being seen, in particular.

For ascended Astarion, there is no option to ask him "what do you want" again, but the character still concludes the arc by using the same words he used in act 1. "This is what you want, isn't it?", where he offers the player this fantasy and the player just has to accept, and say yes.

[wellthebardsdead]

Some more devil prince Falûne-

———

Falûne: *staring up at the thorm mausoleum* you want me to kill mr yurgir? Why?!

Raphael: because he failed to uphold his end of a deal nephew. *sighs* this is why I handle all the unsightly aspects of ruling Cania for you. Your heart is just too gentle for your own good. Don’t you want to help Astarion uphold his deal with me?

Falûne: *visibly going pale, turns to look at Astarion* wh-what did you do?

Astarion: I- Ugh how was I supposed to know his end of the bargain would be killing someone you happened to like?

Raphael: Don’t worry nephew. He’ll turn up back in the house of hope where he belongs.

Falûne: *wings tucking in and hugging himself as his tail curls around his leg* okay uncle…

Raphael: Good boy, strike hard and strike true. Do not disappoint me. *disappears*

*a few hours later*

Falûne: *watching with tears in his eyes as Yurgir kills himself after he tricked him* I’m sorry… *steps back as the orthons body hits the ground with a thud*

Gale: I’m awed, and a little afraid of you right now.

Astarion: that- counts as us killing him right?

Falûne: yes…

Astarion: good, now I can finally understand what’s on my back.

Falûne: … *turns to face him slowly* Astarion.

Astarion: yes?

Falûne: I COULD HAVE FUCKING TOLD YOU MYSELF WHY DIDNT YOU JUST ASK ME?!??!

*a few days later*

Falûne: *standing in the house of hope staring up at Yurgir* y-you’re not mad at me?

Yurgir: at you? No little lamb. *pats his hair* it was my fault for underestimating you. You were a worthy opponent using your tongue as a blade. *sighs* but my dear jewel… my nessa… I mourn for her.

Falûne: … *snaps his fingers making a displacer beast cub appear in his hands* h-here.

Yurgir: *softly gasps and holds out his hands, taking them so carefully in his palm* thank you… I will cherish her greatly, little lamb.

Falûne: *smiles up at him, still feeling awful but now a little more at ease* d-don’t mention it.