#lego monkie kid analysis

[rainbow-beanie]

UGHHHHH THIS SCEEEEEENE!!! 😭

You can tell from the moment wukong looks at him worried that you can tell that he didn’t mean to accidentally trigger him. I wonder if wukong blames himself for mk’s turmoil over his monkey form. Like obviously none of the bad things that happened to mk is his fault, the fact that it still happened and he was one way or another helpless to help him, especially in the last episode in season 4 where inky version of him told him everything he feared. The truth is what happened is neither of their faults, but wukong still feels bad about it.

Especially since mk not liking his monkey form is like, at least in wukong’s eyes; mk hating something that’s a part of wukong. And that revelation is a loooooot to unpack 😬

[aroacenezhaanddainsleif]

so i was rewatching the end of lmk s4 with some friends today, and i noticed that in 4x10 peng says smth to nezha like "let the demon child come out and play!" and like. if i knew more about nezha lore thatd probably be quite concerning to me as a lorehead. and you seem knowledgeable. so. any thoughts?

oh boy. (cracks knuckles) it's late and i should be sleeping but I'm also sad so Nezha interest go BRRRRR

i will say for any accurate/culturally referenced info, go check out @ruibaozha - i am simply summing up as much as i can and some stuff is missing/not elaborated on

let me break down the basic elements of the Nezha myths.

Nezha is born his mom and his military dad, Li Jing, and his older brothers Muzha (second) and Jinzha (first). but Nezha is like fucking. superpower baby for some reason? Apparently the heavens decided to bless Li Jing with a powerful son for his military prowess, and Nezha's mom, Lady Yin(?), was pregnant for 3+ years. Then Nezha popped out as a goddamn ball of flesh. His dad attacked him because hey! Flesh ball! But then Nezha's ball split open and he jumped out as an already formed young child (ages often unclear- ppl say he's 7, or 12, and in some cases he died after only 3 days(?) alive.) either way, Taiyi Zhenren swoops in to be Nezha's master, and everything is fine for some time.

at least til Nezha kills Ao Bing. this part of the myth is really what defines Nezha as a "demon child" or not. in Fengsheng Yanyi/Investiture of the Gods, ONE of the older/more well-known written versions of his story, Nezha washes his sash in the East Sea and causes the dragon palace to quake. Ao Guang understandably gets pissed and sends up his general to ask him to stop, who Nezha kills. then Ao Guang's 3rd son, Ao Bing, who Nezha also kills (and rips out his tendon to wear as a belt)! sometimes Nezha also kills a demon, apprentice of Lady Earth Flow, miles away on accident because he randomly fired a bow. yet in another cases, Nezha is the hero- a demon came up to eat children at the shore, and Nezha obviously killed the dude, then Ao Bing, same thing. but in other other versions, Nezha was friends with Bing and accidentally killed him while playing due to being ultra powerful...

and then Ao Guang threatens Nezha's town, because the kid killed his son. (sometimes Nezha goes and strangles Guang before he can talk to the Jade Emperor, so...) Guang demands an apology and/or Nezha's life or he'll flood the whole mountain pass. and Nezha decides to slit his own goddamn throat to apologize to his parents and "return his body to them". Aka: he commits suicide at like, seven(?)

From here on, stuff differs: Li Jing is a shitty dad (like he REALLY really hates Nezha. calls him a curse and beats him), Nezha gets a temple and Jing burns it down, Nezha gets reborn in a lotus body by his master and/or Buddha, goes on a murder rampage against his dad and Muzha (beats up Muzha w/ a golden brick), is forced to submit to his dad through a Golden Pagoda, making Li Jing the Golden Pagoda Bearing Li Jing, sometimes Jinzha gets to flog his brother, and Nezha's basically a bitter fire god (child) put into the literal armies of heaven. he's also got his 6/8-armed and 3-headed war form in the myths...

now, this is a very long yet still EXTREMELY short explanation of the myth(s), and the "message" really boils down to what version you tell- the boy who started stuff by (unintentionally) murdering people, or the hero. but a lot of the main point of nezha's myth was originally about filial piety, and can be told as a story to remind kids that the parents are always superior, but in more modern myths and stories, Nezha has ended up shifting more into a symbol of rebellion. He's the protection deity of children: the outcasts and the demon children, the kids who question things and are loud and outspoken and aren't what people (especially their parents) want them to be. Nezha's story entirely depends on region, context and intent, which makes him a very versatile figure.

Now, put that into LMK?

I have a lot of hcs abt why LMK Nezha is the way he is, but my main one comes down to that "demon child" line. I like to think that Nezha was basically an uncontrolled force of war power and killed Ao Bing (regardless of the situation).

But then he got put into heaven and 1. realized how he acted and had to deal with crushing guilt and self-hatred and 2. got groomed into a (then) child soldier 👍

He was still a general, but learned to channel all that destructive power into being a protector and how to defend instead (ex: his shields, sealing power, etc). He takes his current job very seriously bc he sees it as his only reason to still be worth existing. he also dislikes Wukong bc he sees far too much of a younger him in Wukong; doomed for destructiveness and chaos. this is also why i put parallels to Nezha and MK because. yeah. (and imo, although i know Nezha paid it back w/ his suicide, I'm a bit surprised Mei wasn't taught to hate him, due to how much family matters to dragons...)

so aka, my hc of: "dude was literally always seen as a demon child/symbol of destruction, and therefore after being used as a literal war weapon and then being made to guard a map for ages (probably because he didn't want to harm anyone else), DUDE'S GOT ISSUES!"

[the-cinnamon-snail]

Okay, we're connecting LMK characters to Mitski songs again because we're listening to Mitski right now! This time(literally only the 2nd ever) it's Fireworks by Mitski, with Macaque.

We really love analysis and stuff and would like this to be read, so if anyone wants the plain text in a reblog/can't read the font well in the image even with zooming in, tell us and we'll get that done!

This is not in complete defense of Macaque: he is a complex character with many positives and negatives, nor is it a bashing of Wukong who is mentioned, as he is in the same situation. This is not to make Macaque seem like an 'uwu soft boy', it is simply an in depth analysis of a song we enjoy from our favorite artist and how we think that it connects to a character we enjoy thinking about from our favorite show. Just thought that needed to be said somewhere.

Part one, with Wukong being connected to Remember My Name, can be found here:

[menaceoffandoms]

So, I saw a theory from @mumatsi and it reminded me of a theory I had before season 5 came out, so I wanna talk about it!

In the journey to the west, the Buddha says their are 4 celestial primates that exist within the world; the intelligent stone monkey (Sun Wukong), the red-buttocked baboon, the long armed gibbon and the six eared Macaque. As far as I'm aware, (all my knowledge about jttw comes from overly sarcastic productions, so I'm very much not an expert) Wukong never meets the other celestial primates during the journey. With only their names and vague powers being listed, the celestial monkies are perfect bases for characters in a cartoon. We've already seen the writers take advantage of this with Macaque, who is the only other celestial monkie we met in jttw. So it makes sense to me that the others would show up at some point.

My initial idea was that MK was the red-buttocked baboon, mainly cause their cited as having knowledge of ying and yang, an understanding of human affairs and the ability to avoid death and lengthen its life.

It just sorta fit in my mind at the time, but after season 5 I don't think it dose anymore.

MK is the harbinger of Chaos, a created by Nuwa with the express purpose of restoring the pillar of heaven and restarting the cycle of the world. MK's not meant to exist beyond that purpose, he only has a life because the Nine-headed serpent wakes him up early and brings him to Pigsy. He, and the stones, are made from the chaos beyond the world, unique to anything else in the world.

So therefore, MK can't be one of the 4 celestial primates, because he wasn't meant to really be a person to begin with. It's why none of the guardians or Nuwa ever call him by his name, or any name for that matter. It's really fucked up when you think about it actually.

I do think it would make sense for the other two celestial primates to show up later in the show, but I don't think season 6 would make sense for that and I don't think they'll be villains. Antagonists, maybe, but not big bad's about to end the world.

I feel like they'll show up sometime after Wukong and Macaque get their shit together, if they do at all, and that means we'd be look at post season 6 at minimum.

But, going back to mumatsi's idea, I do think whatever the "he" the Nine-headed serpent was referring to could have something to do with the celestial primates.

We already know Nuwa made MK and in jttw there is never a definitive reason why Wukong came to be, other than a combination of earthly and celestial energy creating him seemingly at random. But since they both came from the same stone egg, I think we can guess that Nuwa might have had a hand in Wukong being created.

No idea why, but that's a train of thought for later.

I mention this because I think "he" is another God, some opposite to Nuwa who thrives in chaos instead of rejecting it. Their is a Chaos God in Chinese myth named Hundun and I think he could be our best bet at who "he" is.

I don't know much about this deity, I literally just did a quick google search, but given the only evidence toward who this character could be is chaos and the Nine-headed serpents vague mention, I think its as plausible as anything else. At the very least, I'm confident "he" is a God of some kind.

With that idea in mind and the thought that Nuwa created MK, we could assume that Hundun had some part in making Macaque and that is who he got his power from.

It would explain how he was able to stop the Nine-headed serpent, seeing as he seems to have made his own connection with the chaos after "escaping the cave" as he said, but Macaque would have a stronger connection by being made of the stuff.

It could also explain Macaque's death, since chaos and madness go together quite well and the laughter we hear from him in Wukong's flashback sounds very crazy.

TLDR: I wanna know more about the mystic monkies and why the fuck they were made. Hundun is probably the big bad of season 6 giving he's a chaos god and is likely linked to Macaque just like MK is linked to Nuwa, meaning we could get villain Macaque again in season 6 if his madness in Wukong's flashback is any indication.

Basically, there's a lot of potential for drama and I have many, many questions that will likely never be answered.

Thank you for coming to my Ted talk.

[cherllyio]

How Macaque died (Season 5 spoilers)

@rika1991tr tagged me, and asked what it tells us about Macaque's death/ him and Wukong's fight.

So- this is for you :D

and...

*cracks knunckles*

OH BOY

To get to the bottom of this, we have to understand one thing:

Wukong and Macaque never stopped caring for eachother. Beheind all that hate in the first three seasons, they still cared for eachother (none of them dares to show it though)

Just look at how Macaque reaches out for Wukong- (godamnit)

So... what was that "something" Wukong was going to do, that he was warning Macaque about?

Well... Wukong was going to do THIS to Macaque:

Because as my dear friend @lu-zijing (they talked about it here) mentioned to me, there is chains here in Macaque death scene:

And not only that, thoughs chains look A LOT like the chains Tripitaka and Wukong put on LBD:

SO IN OTHER WORDS:

MK AND WUKONGS FIGHT ARE A PARALELL TO MACAQUE AND WUKONG'S FIGHT.

AND ALSO THIS LINE?

Nine headed demon: How did you know that spell? Who did you make a deal with?

Macaque: What deal?

So clearly Macaque has a power, tha he got from someone else, that he CANT control.

And what do we see here in this scene?

The chains broken (again thanks to Lu-Zijing for mentioning that to me), but the shadowpowers OUT OF CONTROL.

In other words: I higely doubt Wukong acutally killed Macaque.

Yes, they got into a fight, but Wukong just wanted to trap Macaque in chains, so he could talk him out of this fight (instead of fighting who used to be his closest compainion).

But... something went wrong. Because right after that line we saw this:

Meaning that Wukong (acdently), destroyed Macaques eye, causing Macaque to PANIC, resulting in Macaque over-using his shadowpowers and then...

...

And one last thing, I would like to point out-

In that same scene Macaque was laughing, and an pretty evil laugh at that.

Almost like... his shadow powers had "taken over".

So lets do the math, yea?

Super unstable shadowpowers + super unstable monkey + the only friend he has ever had "leaving" him =

Ha ha- not to mention Wukong isnt even wearing a circlet here, meaning it didnt even take place in JTTW-!! but thats another can of worms, I will talk about another day-

(lol, did you know I acutally somehow foresaw this in a fanfic-)

[angstandhappiness]

INTERESTING INTERESTING

@mightilymousey This is really close to my own head cannons that Mac is a squishy wizard type. High magic but low durability. He keeps losing because he keeps trying to fight the way Wukong does instead of fully utilizing his own strengths properly. I do disagree with you interpretation on the ice corruption though. I think that was done deliberately by LBD as incentive to get Mac to stop screwing around and do his job already. He either succeeds or he's sealed in ice forever.

Macaque isn’t that strong; his top move is using illusions, glamors and projections to make himself appear as strong

Even in the book the truth is that if he were more powerful then he wouldn’t have been killed with a single strike by the cudgel — he, most likely, was on par with Wukong because he was using the equivalent of mimic

E.g if a rock shares the same hardness with another rock it will not scratch nor break it

SWK was essentially fighting HIMSELF in that battle not the SIX EARED MACAQUE

Macaque getting easily beaten in the show feels right not because he’s weak but because it parallels to how SWK beat him in JTTW — Macaque is NOT a fighter, he’s a manipulator and a magic user, he relies on his shadows to pin Wukong down, he relies on Xiaotian’s own magic to power boost himself, he wasn’t defeated by Xiaojiao because she hit his SHADOW PUPPET not him

Xiaotian dived through and hit his eye directly, that’s why he recoiled

He’s not a fighter, he’s a support and ranged attacker because out of every single fight he’s had he uses tricks, magic and his shadows to fight, never hand-to-hand because that’s not what his specialty is.

And, no, being one of the four celestial primates doesn’t mean he’s powerful.

[bonnisbon]

⚠️ I am not chinese, so if any chinese person in the fandom wants to add something or just point out any mistake, please do ⚠️

I've seen people in the fandom call Macaque's smoke monster 'kaiju', but this is not a correct denomination.

It is better to call it "法相" (fa3 xiang4), meaning "image of (commonly Buddha)"

"佛教术语，指诸法之相状，包含体相（本质）与义相（意义）二者"

Trans.

"A Buddhist term that refers to the appearance of all dharmas, including both physical appearance (essence) and righteousness (significance)"

Following this definition, a 法相 is your true self, your essence, both physical and spiritual... meaning that Smokey (little guy) is not a 'kaiju'. It is an essence, Macaque's.

Same goes to all manifestations of characters who have a version of their 法相, it's their true essence.

Yes, you got it right! This little (not so little) guy is also a 法相.

(Don't call them 'kaiju', please).

Just to add, they can also be called 'war forms', since they appear in the original jttw.

[that-guy-sleepy-miles]

Hello folks, it's Miles here! You may know me as the guy who deduced what Rayman is snorting in episode 5 of Captain Laserhawk! And today, I'll be going over how...

There Are 6 Types of Magic in LEGO Monkie Kid

You can honestly stop here if you don't want to get into the most convoluted stuff ever. If you're vaguely interested but don't have much time, click read more and scroll down to Red Son, because he's where shit gets interesting.

A disclaimer! I've literally never broken down or written a magic system before, I'm just like. writing down and making sense of what I've noticed while watching the show. If you disagree with my assessment of a character's magic, think there's a better term for something I've described, or think I'm just plain wrong, please let me know so I can update the post! I don't know what I'm doing, and I've never looked into magic systems before!

An important thing to note is that LEGO Monkie Kid adheres somewhat to the power systems in Chinese mythology, so I will be bringing up concepts from Chinese mythology that are not talked about in the show. Honestly, if you went 100% on the show and not on Chinese mythology at all, there wouldn't be a magic system in the first place.

Now, let's begin!

‎

First, vocabulary.

Magic Class: The root of a user's magic. Classes are not exclusive, but actually compounding. For example, Wukong has Intrinsic-based Actively Cultivated Magic. Magic Subtype: A modifier to a class; additional information to explain how a user's magic came to be or how it works. For example, Tang has Revitalized Bestow-Inherited Actively Cultivated³ Magic — the subtype goes before the class because it's a modifier. (Yes, I will explain why his Actively Cultivated Magic is cubed.)

(In the naming scheme of magic, everyone has a full classification and then a shorthand classification. The classifications above were all shorthand.)

Magical Energy: The basic form of magic; unfiltered energy that can be channeled, manipulated, and cultivated. This energy can be used to attack directly or utilized in a spell. MAGICAL ENERGY IS QI, "MAGIC" IS JUST BEING USED BECAUSE THIS IS WRITTEN FOR A WESTERN AUDIENCE. Power: A defined ability, such as a spell or a technique. Not all Powers are explicitly named, but powers have defined forms and details whereas Magical Energy is usually a geometric shape. Examples of Powers: 72 Transformations, Golden Sight, teleportation. Magical Expression: How Magical Energy and Powers form upon release. Examples of Magical Expression are glowing eyes, full body glowing, magical seals, anime-esque energy blasts, Red Son's* fire, Ne Zha's fire (two VERY different forms of Magical Expression), and Macaque's purple shadow outline. Ne Zha's Wind Fire Wheels are examples of Magical Expression with a conduit. Zero Magical Expression ≠ zero release, but can. Conduits: Anything that can hold, channel, or manipulate Magical Energy. All living beings and magical artifacts are examples of conduits.

Channeling: Collecting magical energy internally Releasing: The basis of Magical Expression; using collected magical energy for an attack

(Mei showcasing channeling and releasing in Rip and Tear) You can always tell when a character is channeling and releasing.

Knowing which class of magic a character is using can be hard — they all tend to utilize anime-esque energy blast graphics and glowing bodies for Magical Expression — so you have to pay close attention. I'll be going over how to identify the specific magic types as we go through them.

Each type of magic has a "poster child" — a character that fully embodies that type — and I'll be using them to explain how the magic works. Once we finish the easily categorized magics, we'll get into the Special Cases.

(MK showcasing Intrinsic Magic in Rip and Tear)

(Wukong showcasing Cultivated Magic in A Lifetime of Mistakes)

Now, onto the classes of magic!

Intrinsic Magic is a class of magic...

That's not inherently pedigree-related. Ne Zha's father Li Jing was a mortal man.

Most gods and local deities have, and some yaoguai have. (Older demons like DBK and Wukong have Intrinsic Magic, while younger demons like Pigsy and Sandy might technically have Inherited Magic. It all depends on how you want to look at it.)

That usually comes with unique powers, commonly the ability to walk and talk upon birth. (Wukong got laser eyes, and Red Son* got the Samadhi Fire).

And holders have unnatural births? Pangu's cosmic egg, Ne Zha being born a ball of flesh after being gestated for three years, Wukong's rock that's existed since the dawn of time, etc.

Ne Zha is the epitome of Intrinsic Magic! If you think Intrinsic Magic, you think Ne Zha. The unmistakable way to identify Intrinsic Magic is to look for themes. If a character has a theme to their magic, again and again, they likely have Intrinsic Magic! For example:

Ne Zha's Intrinsic Theme is (obviously) lotus flowers/petals.

Red Son's* Intrinsic Theme is flames.

Macaque would be a contender for intrinsic magic (we will be getting back to him, though).

Cultivated Magic is a class of magic that has two subclasses: ACTIVE and PASSIVE, and...

That's ENTIRELY self-created. A magical pedigree can help, but no pedigree is required in Cultivated Magic — Li Jing cultivated magic as a completely human man, for example.

That NEEDS a Conduit. The conduit for Cultivated Magic can be the magic user themselves, but often it's a magical artifact or a technique. Note: a conduit doesn't require Cultivated Magic to be used, but Cultivated Magic requires a conduit. (Known Conduits include: Wukong's Cloud Somersault, Nezha's Wind Fire Wheels, and Princess Iron Fan's Banana Leaf Fan.)

That's very backstory-heavy. There's always a way that a character learned or got their power, or a description of how old they are.

A magic that you see most with yaoguai and immortals. The older the yaoguai, the more cultivated they are.

Passive Cultivation: Every living being is a conduit for passive cultivation — by existing, you are passively cultivating. The best method of passive cultivation is age; the older something is, the more passively cultivated. A Huli jing is the best example of passively cultivated magic. According to literature, the older a fox is, the more power it accrues.

Active Cultivation: Active Cultivation is when a being seeks out magical power. The most common form of active cultivation is being taught Tao techniques (Wukong's Cloud Somersault, Li Jing's Burning Pagoda Art). In this situation, the technique is the conduit. Other forms of actively cultivating magic are yaoguai eating humans and magic-accruing technology (specifically DBK's Furnace armor, which converts rarity into magical energy.)

Cultivated Magic comes with the implication of being wise, at least in some form, and those with cultivated magic are able to teach others. Being a disciple immediately means you have Actively Cultivated Magic.

Cultivated Magic often doesn't have Magical Expression, because it's all about existing and learning. When it does have Magical Expression, it's usually depictions of strength and power or the conduit itself glowing.

(Wukong's hairs glow as they are used as conduits for his cloning technique in Macaque)

(Wukong and Macaque's strength is showcased through Magical Expression during a fight in Macaque)

Cultivated Magic can be seen through any technique that was stated to have learned, such as Wukong's astral projection and his speed/quick reflexes.

(Wukong focusing in order to astral project to MK in Dumpling Destruction)

(MK having to actively learn and practice astral projecting in Minor Scale)

MK: Monkey King! It worked! Monkey King: Hey, bud. So, you figured out astral projection, huh? MK: Yeah, and I only had five nose bleeds.

Cultivated Magic is best showcased in action, and characters cultivate over the course of the show.

(Wukong showcasing his Cultivated Magic by pulling some fast ones on MK in Impossible Delivery)

(4 seasons later in Strings That Bind, Wukong and MK spar, showcasing MK's Cultivated Magic. Tumblr will NOT let me embed both videos, and the first one is more important, so this will just be a link.)

Inherited Magic is a class of magic that has two subclasses: ANCESTERAL and BESTOWED, and...

Comes from someone else and was given to or passed down to the magic user.

Is sourced from Intrinsic or Cultivated Magic, but the magic user is not intrinsically magical/did not cultivate that magic themselves. The Intrinsic/Cultivated Magic is specific to another (perhaps deceased) being.

Can have ZERO Magical Expression or release.

If a character has Ancestor-Inherited Magic, they'll have a family animal, a family artifact, and/or a known ancestor.

If a character has Bestow-Inherited Magic, they were given their power by another magic user (known as the Bestower) so that they would serve that magic user, defeat a foe, or as a reward. Bestow-Inherit Magic users are often previously mortal.

Bestow-Inherited Magic is most blatantly a character giving another character magical powers, but being granted godhood, being brought back to life under a deal, and everyone receiving heavenly ranks/Wukong and Tripitaka receiving Buddhahood and Buddha titles at the end of Journey To The West is also Bestow-Inherited Magic.

A quick note: Older yaoguai (DBK, Azure Lion, Wukong) are considered to have Intrinsic Magic, but Modern yaoguai (Pigsy, Sandy) are deemed to have Inherited Magic. This is because these younger demons are not yaoguai specifically unto themselves — their status as a yaoguai comes from their ancestors. They have no unique, intrinsic powers, nor were they specifically predestined to be yaoguai despite their heritage (such as in the case of Nezha, who was predestined to be a celestial being).

For example, Pigsy. His status as a Magic User exists because of his family history. While, yes, his family is important to his character and story, it's not something he did himself — he did not cultivate his grandma — and there is nothing unique about him biology-wise besides just being a pig demon. He is a reincarnation, but being a reincarnation didn't make him a yaoguai. (That was a whole fate, symbolism deal, though.) If Pigsy hadn't been born, his family would still have a pig demon kid.

Now, onto the subtypes. (As a reminder, a subtype modifies a class!)

Revitalized Magic is a subtype of magic. It means that the magic is from a pre-incarnation that a character unlocks and requires reincarnation.

Uuuuunless it doesn't, and it required Un-Death. Auto-Revitalization of Magic is definitely a thing, but it's not a real category. It's just a specification to explain things that have happened to a character.

For example: The reason Macaque's shadows turned into chaos magic at the end of season 5 is because he's dead. He's outside of the reincarnation cycle, he's Undead, his magic is Auto-Revitalized —so when the reincarnation cycle is broken, his magic is also changed. At least, that's my personal theory. I might be DEAD WRONG.

Okay, back to Revitalized Magic proper: Remember back when I said Tang's magic was cubed? Yeah, this is why. (Before we start, Táng Sānzàng will be referred to as Tripitaka from here on out.)

The full classification of Tang's magic is: Potential Revitalized Bestow-Inherited (Tripitaka), Revitalized Actively Cultivated (Golden Cicada), Revitalized Actively Cultivated (Tripitaka), Actively Cultivated Magic. (Maybe, we'll get into this.)

The entire reason demons tried to eat Tripitaka was because he was the reincarnation of the Golden Cicada, who was a disciple of Buddha, which made Tripitaka's flesh holy. Being a disciple immediately means Actively Cultivated Magic; Tripitaka had Revitalized Actively Cultivated Magic. Tripitaka was a Buddhist disciple as well, which means he also Actively Cultivated. If Tang is a reincarnation of Tripitaka, who is a reincarnation of the Golden Cicada, then Tang has Revitalized Actively Cultivated Magic twice (or, even, 10 times, if you look at the Sandalwood Buddha thing, but Tripitaka and Golden Cicada are the important disciples so we're only counting them).

If Tang has Revitalized Actively Cultivated Magic and Revitalized Actively Cultivated Magic, that means he has Revitalized Actively Cultivated Magic². However,

Tang is a SCHOLAR. BEING A SCHOLAR MEANS THAT TANG IS ALSO AN ACTIVE CULTIVATOR.

HENCE, TANG HAS ACTIVELY CULTIVATED MAGIC³.

Celestial Magic is a subclass of magic that includes any magic with a seal. It's not exclusive to Celestial beings, but it's most often used by beings with Heavenly connections.

Celestial Magic is also known as "Spells", I'm pretty sure. Wukong just dropped this terminology on us in Season 5, and spells usually require words, but like. Okay, buddy. Whatever. You're the magic guy.

Celestial Seals have a unique symbol for every "Artist", or a Hànzì that explains the spell's purpose. For example, Li Jing's seals have a little pagoda on them, and the containment spell's seal (the only thing that can truly be called a spell here) has the character "牢", which means "prison" (or "enclosure", which is hilarious because it's containing 3 monkeys).

Consequential Magic is any magical energy or power gained as a result of an action taken by someone who is NOT the magic user.

Consequential is not a subclass of Cultivated because the magic user had no say in acquiring/did not know they were acquiring Consequential Magic; Consequential is not a subclass of Inherited because the magic user was not intentionally given these powers and they did not come from ancestry.

(Red Son* is literally the reason this subtype exists.) Every example of Consequential Magic is different, so I'm just going to some of the ones I know of in canon:

Wukong's Golden Sight (Consequence of the Eight Trigrams Furnace; Torture-consequence)

Ao Lie having the Samadhi Fire inside him after they fucked up the seal (Samadhi Fire/Red Son*; Samadhi-consequence)

Mei Dragon's ability to harness the Samadhi Fire/the remnants left over inside her after (Samadhi Fire/Red Son*; Samadhi-consequence)

MK's human form (form as in the shape of something btw) (Xiangliu fucked his shit up; Birth Interference-Consequence)

Macaque's new Chaos Magic (Xiangliu fucked his shit up; Chaos-Consequence)

I have spent this entire post explaining the way magic seems to work in LEGO Monkie Kid, getting slightly more and more unhinged as we go on. But there might be two things on your mind: Why? and Why does Red Son's* name have an asterisk on it every time I've mentioned him in this post?

I can answer both of those questions with one statement: Red Son does not adhere to the magic rules other characters follow. I've tried to find examples to see if I was thinking of the magic wrong — and that's fully possible — but I didn't find anything. In fact, the more I look, the more sure of this I become. It's like he actively decides against following the rules of the magic system.

He can be used as EXAMPLES of the magic system, but when you dig into his magic specifically, it's completely wack-a-doo.

First and foremost:

Red Son has a completely unique form of Magic Expression. His emotions are directly linked to his Magical Expression and release.

Emotionally linked magic release is something no other character does, but here he is doing it over and over and over again. The only example close to it is MK's Mystic Monkey form flickering in and out when he's distraught, and that's LITERALLY CREATION-GIVEN NÜWA MAGIC, THAT'S FROM A CREATURE WHOSE CANONICALLY "OUTSIDE OF THE 10 SPECIES" AND CANNOT BE CATEGORIZED?? AND ALSO NOT QUITE THE SAME EITHER.

(This could also be attributed to the concentration part of the Samadhi Fire, but he doesn't... seem to have access to that anymore? At least, not like Mei does. We'll consider it a factor in his magic expression, though.)

About his fire,

Red Son and his mom are the only two characters with Wuxing/Elemental Magic — every other example comes from a magical artifact. It's actually a 50/50 chance on whether or not PIF has wind powers or if the Banana Leaf Fan gives her wind powers (I'm pretty sure it gives her wind powers, but just to be safe we'll count her as having wind powers.) Wuxing Magic is not uncommon in actual Chinese mythology, but it is in the show for some reason. And it ALWAYS has an artifact as a conduit. Wuxing Magic always seems to be just a visual effect or an added addition to attacks in the show.

Another weird ass thing about Red Son's magic is its contrast with Nezha's. I'm pretty sure Red Son's fire is actual fire that he conjures magically, in contrast to Nezha's Wind Fire Wheels (conduits that Nezha fuels, and release Wuxing Magic as a visual effect) which make specifically magical fire.

Okay, so, I've been going through this assuming you're aware of the show's visuals concerning magic, but this is important for me to cover in detail. Everyone has two magic colors (white doesn't count for this). They can change in lighting, but you'll always recognize them as being the same general colors. Other colors may be used for emphasis, but they'll only be darker versions of the colors and they'll be used as a background for the main colors. (Quick note, MK and Wukong might have only one magic color? Fun stuff.)

The reason I think Red Son's magic is not... magic persay, is because it doesn't follow the color rule. Like, it's not actually the color of Red Son's magical energy half the time, it doesn't follow the magic color rule. Red Son's fire shifts like an actual fire, which is very cool visually, but is not how magic works.

(Quick note, magic seems to be lighter in the celestial realm. This is because the Celestial Realm is really well-lit. The environment is literally pure sunlight or some shit, so all the characters and their magic are in perfect lighting. So Red Son's magic getting inexplicably darker would make no sense unless Red Son's magic is doing that on its own and the lighting has nothing to do with it.)

His magic also isn't the color of the Samadhi Fire, nor is his fire. That time in season 5 when Mei helped him with the seal, the two of them together made a Samadhi Fire-colored seal. He didn't seem capable of doing that by himself, which leads me to my conclusion:

I think the suppression of the Samadhi Fire suppressed Red Son's Intrinsic Magic as a whole, and his magical core (as one user put it) is compensating by drawing directly from his element.

Characters having an element isn't a new thing. Wukong's element is metal, he's a metal guy, it's why he can't swim, and it's why MK can't swim. MK needs floaties because he'll sink like a rock because he shares the metal element with Wukong.

But this is a possible explanation for why Red Son's magic is so weird.

On the note of Mei having more access to the Samadhi Fire than him, Skellebonez (my rock through this journey of a post) brought up a good point: "[I] think it makes sense because whatever they did to remove it from him could have also added a barrier preventing its return to an extent[.] Like a filter[.]"

This Intrinsic Magic cap/Samadhi Filter might also explain why he keeps getting his shit rocked despite having such potential to be powerful (that's probably just because it's silly tho) and it could explain why his parents are so damn disappointed in him in season 1. It's because they took his magic from him (however unintentionally) and he's not as magical anymore. The only type of categorizable magic he uses is Celestial magic, which HUMANS can use and can be bestowed on ANYONE. You can just like... LEARN THAT, and I think he just did.

In canon, nobody ever seems to be hurt by Red Son's fire? It seems to just be... a thing that he does. Everyone is less and less scared of it as the show goes on, and the only thing it does major damage to is MK's apartment. He uses his fists to attack more than he uses his fire, it's generally left as a visual effect. Red Son uses his fire as an intimidation tactic, not as an actual weapon, and I think this could also be explained by an Intrinsic Magic cap. His intrinsic magic is suppressed, so he has to rely on things like physical strength/cultivation.

I also think nobody knows this in canon, they didn't know about it, or they don't understand it. I think Red Son has a magic limiter on him, which is why his parents were such raging fuckasses in season one. They thought their son was "useless", or in Wukong's words, "half-baked", after showing such promise in his childhood before an incident. They only got a healthier relationship after they stopped obsessing over power and spent some family time together, when they realized that their son being a powerful magical demon isn't the most important thing in the world. (AND WE WEREN'T SHOWN IT.)

Red Son is magic-disabled, in this essay I did.

ALL MAGIC COMES FROM THE PRIMORDIAL CHAOS, SO, IN ACTUALITY, ALL OF IT IS THE SAME! FUCK YOU!

[featherstorm2004]

Macaque is born from chaos

LMK SPOILERS FOR S5!!!

Ok so it's basically confirmed Macaque is going to be important for the next season considering dear Nine gave him so much attention, especially when you consider the ending shot is him noticing the chaos magic on the staff.

As for why he is important it's basically been confirmed that Mac's shadow magic is strange and in the finally we see it turn into chaos magic. Now, it's implied by Nine that Macaque would have needed to make a deal for this power, but Macaque has no clue what he's talking about which leads me to two theories.

And no I don't think it was the LBD's doing as he's had these powers long before her so no, I think either Mac was born in the chaos realm and somehow made it to this reality OR and this is my personal headcanon, Macaque was made by the "he" Nine referenced before departing in the finally. As to who this being is I have no idea but he is likely a figure of either equal or greater power to Nuwa, who then made Macaque to fulfill a purpose, similarly to how MK and Sun Wukong were.

As for what that purpose is who knows maybe it was to be his eyes and ears in this reality considering in the book Macaque had the ability to hear the past and future, or maybe it was to kill Wukong and Mk since they were Nuwa's sacrifices, we have no idea as this being is likely a creature of chaos so perhaps he had no reason and just wanted to see what would happen, but it's likely going to play a big part next season.

[angstandhappiness]

FASCINATING

I’ve had the thought before that Sun Wukong doesn’t use his whole strength when fighting because he’s holding a lot of anger and doesn’t want to lose control.

Thinking more about Sha Dali and the parallels between him and Sun Wukong strenghtened that headcanon. They both have scenes where their eyes are glowing, they’re about to punch somebody with so much power it’d kill their target, and they stop at the last possible moment because they don’t want to hurt them!

Mind you, these scenes are as much parallels as foils to each other because of very different circumstances.

(Huntsman triggered Sha Dali’s trauma, which caused his rage to spike in an uncontrollable surge and the almost-attack on Huntsman.

Sun Wukong was possessed White Bone Spirit, conscious but helpless during the attack, and if he felt any anger, it was certainly not aimed at Qi Xiaotian who is the last person he’d want to hurt).

But both of them avoid fighting when necessary. Both of them hold back. Both of them try to appear less threatening than their past reputations. Bloody reputations that were born because they injured / killed many as a warrior / a soldier.

And we know from Sha Dali that he changed his life because he didn’t want to be that person anymore. He wanted to become a better person. He doesn’t want to get violent not only because he’s changed, but also because he fears - with good reason! - that he could slip back into that mindset. It’s through no fault of his own but the risk exists either way.

To apply that to Sun Wukong:

I headcanon that he hides a massive well of rage. He’s afraid he’d slip back if he got involved too much in battles. That something could cause him to revert  to a much worse version of himself.

His rage comes from feelings of resentment, feelings of being cheated out of what he thinks he deserved.

From his suffering in his past. Being hurt by others, sometimes as retribution, sometimes just because they resented him

The anger that the promised change for him, for all of the pilgrims, apparently amounted to nothing. That all that he had done for the journey, all the hard work, all the consequences, ended with him being alone, all former friends and family lost or distant to him.

[imminent-danger-came]

One detail I've noticed is that Wukong's outfit is different before and after Tripitaka places the circlet on him (and Wukong was notably unwilling to be chained):

Which is distinctly different than every other iteration of this scene we've been shown:

Other retellings of this moment have Wukong kneeling in servitude...when the reality is he was kneeling after being subdued—continuing lmk's tradition of biased/false narratives (like what was done with the multiple explanations of the samadhi fire). I think it's interesting to see the ways in which Wukong's past was made easier to swallow as time went on (or if you were Azure and didn't want to believe that Wukong had been changed by his journey lol)

[the-cinnamon-snail]

Okay I'm not normal about Lego Monkie Kid this is a known fact but I was listening to Mitski last night and now I have. Words. Over how Mitski songs connect to LMK characters because I am not normal.

These are kind of long so I'll only do one section of how songs tie in with LMK characters per post because I have a lot of words.

This is part one, and it's under the cut due to the length!

Okay so obviously I'm going to start with the obvious one to me, that being Mitski's song 'Remember My Name' and Wukong.

With the first chunk of lyrics, I was already thinking of Wukong. The first three lines to me obviously connect to how, when Wukong and the brotherhood failed to remove the Jade Emperor from power, he was trapped alone under the Five Phases Mountain for 500 years. Wukong obviously missed the Brotherhood during that time, even if he argued with Macaque when he came to visit him (that being the 'and make some extra love' line to me because it's a question. Not guaranteed). Then, Wukong was freed by Tripitaka, and had to go on the Journey To The West, eventually thinking of the pilgrims as his new family, that being 'tomorrow's show' in my mind.

Speaking of the 'tomorrow's show' line, I think it leads into sort of how Wukong puts up a mask around people. He acts all confident, like a hero, and ignores all the wrong he's done to not worry people and to come off as a pillar of justice. That and I also like connecting it to Wukong's stage fright despite that fact.

The second chunk of lyrics is where it really gets good in my brain. Wukong needs people to remember him even after all he can do for others (be that the attempt to take down the Jade Emperor or even the Journey To The West) is done. It's his constant reckless acts without thinking of the consequences of his actions in an attempt for immortality, to live forever, to know what people think of him forever. He wanted to be immortalized, his name to be remembered. And it's a bit ironic because one of the ways Wukong did that was quite literally scratching his name out of the book of the dead.

The third chunk of text, Wukong needing something bigger than the sky, wanting all the immortality (cause c'mon, seven times is kind of overkill), he wants to know for sure that it's his. Also, during his time with The Brotherhood and even beforehand, breaking into the celestial realm and causing The Havoc In Heaven, trying to take down the Jade Emperor. All of these reckless actions Wukong did because he surrounded himself with strong people (in his eyes, stars) who encouraged him. Also ignoring Macaque who tried to warn him of the consequences, ignoring that it was dangerous and could be damaging. By ignoring the person who likely cared about Wukong the most, he lost everything, lost the chance to call his world 'heaven'.

The repeating of those chunks of lyrics to me signifies Wukong time and time again trying to reach out for something, someone to hang on to, but losing it. Losing the brotherhood due to self destructive tendencies and being trapped for 500 years, and losing the pilgrims due to the immortality that Wukong had worked so hard for before knowing them. He lost his grip on what he loved, no longer being able to 'hold it in his arms', even if it was his, his found family.

Also something about the lyric changing from 'to finally call it heaven' to 'something like heaven' to me sounds like Wukong finally realizing what he wants but still being unable to obtain it due to careless actions.

-

If you read all the way here I'd appreciate a reblog <3

Part two can be find here! ↓

[rainofthetwilight]

I saw someone on twitter point out how that this dadsy scene is literally the entire message of S5 in the first episode and oh my god it's making me ill

the whole “you can follow the written recipe to a tea but you’ll still change it to your taste” is how MK figured out how to solve everything with the colored stones, cause MK followed EVERYTHING the guardians said to do, what nuwa had made him to be!! but he did it to protect his friends, so even when he fought so hard to accomplish what he thought was right, it wasn't enough. cause he didn’t follow what he thought was the right way, he didn't follow his tastes

when he followed the recipe on his own, it didn’t taste right until pigsy helped him- HIS DAD, his FAMILY. It connects to how he listened to the guardians, listened to nuwa, even xiangliu! but it wasn’t right because he was alone through ALL of it! It wasn’t until he was with his family when he found the right answer, when he was reminded of who he was and what he wanted. he did everything the recipe said, but only when he added his tastes- AKA his family- is when he was satisfied with the outcome!!

god. I'm sobbing I love this show so much

[oceanqueenmusical]

*Busts down the door* NOBODY EXPECTS THE SPANISH INQUISITION!

Ha, sorry! I just saw this post and felt compelled to add my own two cents since Macaque’s characterization and reception by fandom is something I feel pretty strongly about. Also bear in mind I mean none of this hatefully, I’m just participating in a debate.

While again, you're correct and valid in a lot of your points, I just can't agree with the statement that Macaque is just a bad person.

That’s great! Because Time didn’t say Macaque was ‘just’ a bad person. They actually acknowledge several times that he’s complex and multi-faceted. But being complex doesn’t mean you can’t also be an asshole to almost every other person you interact with. He repeatedly hurts several characters, and in the first two seasons he does so with zero provocation other than his hatred for Sun Wukong. He’s complex, yes, but still a dick.

I get what you're saying, but season 3 is entirely about dissecting the characters (namely Wukong and Macaque) while they're at their most vulnerable. And while this show isn't really known for consistent writing at times, the season is also spent getting to know Macaque and what his true intentions are.

I get what you’re saying here, but that’s… debatable? Monkie Kid has 11 minute episodes, and a lot of them are crammed with details that aren’t expanded on. Wukong is consistently benched every season and special, even if it’s done differently each time. He literally spends half of s3 meditating, and in the special he’s possessed. We don’t really see him at his ‘most vulnerable’ unless you count him being yelled at by Mei and then possessed by LBD, and even then that’s not really emotional vulnerability — which I assume is what you’re referring to.

Similarly, Macaque isn’t really emotionally vulnerable either. He’s tossed around by LBD, and sure, he’s ‘vulnerable’, but he spends all those scenes being terrified or snarky. We don’t really see inside his head at all. And— what ‘true intentions’? He’s literally hunting down the Monkie Kids to deliver them to LBD because she’s threatening him into compliance. Those aren’t true intentions, that’s just forced compliance.

M.K literally goes "deep, deep down, you're not [a bad] guy", and Macaque takes that as his incentive to join the group and help them save the world, which he continues to do for the next two seasons.

Uh, yeah… so, I did not like that speech at all and I think it was done very poorly and was unwarranted, but that is only my opinion. However, Macaque didn’t really help in s4. He just showed MK a video game to motivate him into fighting Azure and nominally helps Mei beat Peng. Not a lot happens, and he’s certainly not remorseful or apologetic towards anyone for how’s he’s treated them in the past. It’s just kinda brushed over. In s5 he’s a LOT more helpful of his own will though, I’ll give you that.

He also only was present for 1 episode in season 1, and I think 2 in season 2, so it surely wasn't "two full seasons". These seasons we don't know almost anything about him. We're supposed to take his actions purely at face value up until Season 3, where it's all spent letting us know that he does all of it because he was terribly hurt and betrayed (at least to him) by his closest and only friend (regardless of the nuances of that situation as well) and feels now more than ever that he can only rely on himself (something he also literally says). It's why he tries to save himself over the world (along with his well-hidden but clearly there) hope and belief that MK and his friends were capable enough to handle the rest in Season 3.

Okay, you may be right that we didn’t see a lot of Macaque in the first two seasons… but what we did see from him was not good AT ALL. Sure, he may have only had two episodes, but he spent those episodes being a dick and torturing MK and his friends for funsies. You can’t just say ‘oh, we haven’t seen their full character yet!’ Just because he only had two episodes in the first two seasons. Even if he had little screen time, he spent all of it being a manipulative asshole.

And as for s3 — again, even if he’s traumatized and has hope for the Mobile Kids, he’s acting on it in the most dickish way possible. He didn’t HAVE to separate the van into two copies and torture Mei and Sandy, but he did. He could’ve just isolated MK, taken him to LBD, and finished the job. He chose to keep Mei and Sandy around to get to MK.

Him "having fun while doing it" is, again, why we're meant to take his actions at face value. He acts like he doesn't care how he makes people feel, acts like he just hurts people for the fun of it, when there are clear reasons (justifiable or not) why he does those things.

… This is just headcanon territory. I’m sorry, but the only time Macaque shows a SMIDGEN of regret for what he’s doing is in s3 ep10 when he is actively being consumed by LBD’s curse, and even then he sounds more in pain than anything.

This is shown all throughout season three. He didn’t have to torture the Monkie Kids, level Ao Guang’s palace, hold Mei hostage, beat the shit out of Tang and degrade him, or choose to mock MK when he could’ve just gotten the job done with. He CHOSE to do those things, and he smiled the whole time. If you interpret him as remorseful that’s totally fine, but that is a headcanon. If he was genuinely sorry, he would have said something or showed even ONE SECOND of remorse on his face when he was alone.

His debut episode, he only does anything he does to get back at Wukong because he's upset for a valid reason. Was it okay for him to hurt MK the way he did? Of course not. But he didn't do it just because he's evil and likes hurting people, he did it because he hides away his good nature to keep people away and avoid being hurt (something he actually unveils that very episode in his lessons to MK. Macaque indirectly lets us know how he thinks with his learned ruthlessness).

Yeah, uh, I don’t know how to say this, but your buddy killing you 500 years ago doesn’t justify you trying to kill his mentee. Is the reason he’s upset valid? Yeah. Not valid enough to manipulate and try to murder MK, though.

Also… we have no proof he ‘hides his good away’. That was an assessment made by MK. You know, the guy who generally tries to see the good in people. Maybe Macaque was teaching MK with methods he genuinely believed in, but you can literally see throughout the episode how Macaque is manipulating MK and making him more and more angry and prone to lashing out so he can steal his powers. Using MK to get back at Wukong was Macaque’s first and foremost priority that episode.

In Shadow Play, he outright refers to MK as his student, and they have a conversation at the end that really should've explained everything. He says he's "a good kid with a terrible mentor".

Macaque calls himself MK’s mentor to fuck with him. That’s it. He says it in a mocking tone, and is pleased when MK snaps back. I agree that he was definitely growing somewhat fond of MK by the end, but that doesn’t change the fact that ‘student’ was a word used by Macaque to mock MK, and MK visibly reacts with anger and frustration when he’s called that by Macaque. Not exactly a moniker used with fondness in that episode.

This episode isn't him mentally tormenting MK just for the sillies.

… Yes. It literally is. The entire episode he mocks MK and makes assumptions about MK’s character that he based on (his biased and untrustworthy view of) Sun Wukong. Macaque literally drags MK through the mud while peppering his friends around, laughing at him for relating to the warrior. Why? Because Macaque assumes MK and Sun Wukong are the same people when they’re NOT.

Also… even if Macaque was trying to teach MK a lesson, he didn’t have to strip away the free will of three people to do it. He had so many other options. He chose to hurt people.

It's him, in the harsh and brash nature I mentioned before that we actually see best in perspective post-redemption with the game he has MK play in Season 4, teaching MK to never forget where he came from and to not allow his newfound power and glory to cause him to forget about the people who care about him and who helped him get there. He tells the story about him and Wukong as a way of saying "don't let you and your friends become like us, don't ruin the good thing you have". This is an inherently good lesson done in a way that would disallow MK to actually see that Macaque is trying to help.

I agree that the lesson is good, but it’s still based on Macaque’s biased perspective of Wukong and MK. MK’s issue that episode wasn’t him becoming a glory-hound and forgetting his roots, he was having a breakdown over losing his mentor and discovering that he’s a magical monkey. However, I will agree on this point that Macaque was genuinely trying to help here.

His holding Mei hostage was obviously not okay (and I'm pretty sure he was bluffing, because he literally said before that that he didn't want to have to hurt anyone and that he was only there for the rings but that isn't the conversation, and either way holding people hostage is inherently bad),

Headcanon. We have no proof he was bluffing. Not wanting to hurt someone is very different from hurting someone anyways, and as we’ve seen Macaque is VERY capable of killing someone. In fact, I’d argue he had more motivation to do something drastic here considering he was literally being consumed by LBD’s curse! And again— he chose to hold Mei hostage and threaten Tang to complete the ritual. He could’ve waited it out or tried to talk but he did not. He chose the violent route. Sure, maybe he did because of his trauma, but that was still a choice he made.

but again, we know why. You can hear it in his voice and his dialogue that he's become desperate. Testimonies from both Wukong and Peng let us know that Macaque has never been the fearless type. In fact, his self preservation bleeds into a lot of his moments, where we never see him go in swinging. He plays mind games, he turns his fights psychological to give himself the upper-hand. So we know that Macaque is both, literally not himself, and clearly behaving in ways he never would. When he breaks free, he tries to run away. He doesn't keep pursuing MK and the gang, he tries to save himself and again, leave the rest to them.

Yeah, and he also gives himself the upper hand because he likes to be in control and psychologically fuck with his opponents. And actually? Aside from how desperate he sounds, nothing Macaque did in that episode was out of character. Being consumed by LBD’s curse didn’t change his brain chemistry all of a sudden, Macaque was capable of holding Mei hostage WAY before even coming into contact with LBD.

Also, yeah, he does run away. He runs away from the consequences of his actions after torturing Mei and forcing Tang to complete the ritual, leaving everyone else to deal with the mess he made.

And his regret and remorse are shown in the way he sticks around and keeps helping them when he has no reason to. He doesn't need to help out with LBD in s3 after he's free, cheer up MK with his speech, or help Wukong break out of the Scroll of Memory, or be there for the fight against the Brotherhood all in s4, or have that talk with Wukong at the beginning of s5, especially, again, given everything we know about him and his constant feeling of needing to flee, but he does all of it anyways.

You do realize that in the s3 special and the latter half of s4 the world is about to end, right? Macaque helps because it’s in his own self-interest. I will give you season 5, but the earlier seasons? He’s helping because he’s not a dumbass and knows that the world is close to ending and that he should probably stop it if he doesn’t want to DIE.

Also if someone showed their ‘regret’ by sticking around to do the bare minimum with no apologies I’d yell at them to leave. He doesn’t even show remorse— he never apologies or looks regretful. He’s the same as always; cocky, snarky, and arrogant with a hatred for Wukong. Sure, it may have dimmed as the series progresses, but he’s mostly the same except he’s a ‘good guy’ now. No apologies to Tang, Mei, Sandy, MK, Wukong, anyone. He never shows any kind of regret in any way. Claiming that sticking around is how he shows regret is headcanon territory.

Should he have an apology? Of course he should, and it sucks that we don't get one, but we know that Macaque shows his feelings through action, and, in moments of vulnerability, isn't very good with words. It's why MK thinks Macaque is just being a dick when he initially tries to give him advice in s4.

Headcanon (I’m noticing a theme here). Sure, Macaque isn’t a very open book with his emotions, but you can’t say that he shows regret through actions when those actions have been bare-minimum saving the world. He never tries to show kindness to anyone he’s hurt. He dips in, saves the day with snarky commentary, and dips out.

Yes, Macaque isn’t good with words, but he also doesn’t seem to try. When he shows up as MK’s having a breakdown in season 4 he doesn’t try to comfort the kid, he literally announces himself by degrading Wukong. Which— do you think that would make MK feel better? Sorry, that was mean, but seriously.

MK thought Macaque was being a dick because Macaque showed up acting like one.

He didn't try to murder MK, he used him as bait to satiate a long-standing grudge. A bad thing, but not done unprompted.

… Yes. Yes, he did. He would’ve crushed MK to a pulp in s1 ep9 had Wukong not shown up. Macaque had no idea that Wukong would’ve shown up at that exact moment. For all he knew MK was about to die by his hand and he was CHILL with it. More than chill, actually!

Also— what do you mean ‘not done unprompted’?! Trying to kill a kid because you have beef with his mentor seems pretty unprompted to me! MK had no issues with Macaque until Macaque showed up to manipulate and kill him. Just because Wukong wronged Macaque once doesn’t make Macaque trying to kill his mentee prompted, I would say doing something like that is very much unprompted!

He didn't brutalize MK. He used harsh means to teach MK a valuable lesson. It was bad to use MK's friends the way that he did, it was bad to go at MK's safety and headspace to get his point across. But it was done with the intent of a good outcome.

What point?! What outcome?! I just rewatched the episode and all Macaque says is that MK’s a good kid with a bad teacher (which is an opinion, by the way), and Macaque could’ve just said that. And he says that AFTER he leaves the theatre and MK had to hunt him down. The ‘point’ Macaque was trying to get across was that MK and Wukong were selfish assholes who didn’t care about their friends— which is a biased and factually incorrect narrative that he made up because he couldn’t see Wukong and MK as two different entities.

I’m sorry, but no lesson is worth violating the autonomy of three people and traumatizing another. Tell me; if Wukong did anything similar to that to teach MK a lesson, would you still be cool with it?

He fought Tang for the Ring of Samadhi (I'm pretty sure he barely even hit him, so I wouldn't say "violently beat on", but an attack is still an attack so I won't tell you you're wrong)

Macaque kicks Tang in the face and throws him to the floor. He tries to punch him in the face and the ONLY reason he didn’t get to kick the shit out of Tang more was because Tang managed to unlock his cicada powers. Macaque didn’t beat on Tang more because of lack of opportunity, not lack of malice.

and, again, was just playing mind games as we see him do constantly no matter the enemy--a defense mechanism, a legit fighting strategy.

It’s also known as projection. Macaque does it a lot, especially to MK. Macaque brings up Wukong during their fight despite the fact that Tang was benched by MK and has barely interacted with Wukong that season. Also— Tang is (if we’re going off of Word of God) around 40. What threat does he pose to Macaque to necessitate a defense mechanism? Even when Tang gets powers it’s just making a shield. THAT is a defense mechanism.

But he was under the iron fist of LBD, and wouldn't have even bothered with Tang otherwise (I really could keep going about his actions in s3 and how well masked his encouragement of their team actually is). He was given his warning before this moment, and literally almost was killed then and there before he told her about their plan. LBD wouldn't have even known about it and thus wouldn't have had the time to prepare until his life was on the line.

This is true, but again, he goes about things in the most violent manner possible. Also— the only visible encouragement I see is at the end of ‘The Winning Side’, and that’s mostly to himself. Sure, maybe he’s not as violent as he could be, but that’s still not better.

His siege of the Dragon Palace of the East Sea was also only done because the LBD was practically dangling his right to live in front of him and as a means of self-preservation. This is a bad thing he does, but one that hardly counts, because again, he never would've bothered otherwise.

I’m gonna let you in on a little secret: the siege of Ao Guang’s palace? Yeah, that was before the ice curse that threatened to encase Macaque’s body. Sure, he was being coerced by LBD before then, but he still chose to attack the palace. He acknowledges that Ao Guang was only sent to slow him down— he could’ve left and pursued the team instead! But he instead chose to siege the palace and assault Ao Guang and he does so smiling and laughing.

Also— my god, ‘one that hardly counts’?! Just because you’re being coerced into an action doesn’t mean that everything you do during that suddenly doesn’t count! Oh, it doesn’t count to Macaque’s character? Well, guess what! It counts to the destroyed palace, the probably injured people who lived in that city, and the definitely injured Ao Guang.

You can’t write off everything Macaque does in s3 and use LBD as a scapegoat. She is an instigator for his actions, yes, but she wasn’t whispering in his ear to attack the palace. And if she was— he sure seemed to have a hell of a time doing it either way.

You're right, trauma doesn't exempt someone from responsibility, but the point isn't that Macaque isn't responsible for his bad actions, because in most cases, he is. But there's a lot of detail and understanding of his character that's missed when you take all of his actions before his redemption (and even after for some reason) and write him off as a "bad person".

Holding someone accountable ≠ missing nuance and detail. Macaque does bad things repeatedly, many times of his own free will, and even when they aren’t he takes them a lot farther than necessary.

And I gotta ask— when was Macaque’s redemption for you? Was it when he said sorry or showed remorse to somebody? Because I hate to break it to you, but that NEVER happens. Never. Not once. He leaves, shows up to nominally help, then leaves. There is zero present remorse there. Saving the world one time after all your other options are exhausted and getting a little speech about how deep down you’re actually a good person doesn’t ‘redeem’ you.

I thought we all agreed that redemption is taking accountability for your actions and making steps to be better. Macaque never does either of those things. The most he does is save the world and help out the team. That’s it. He doesn’t say sorry. He’s not kind — physically or with words — to anyone. He sticks to the shadows and doesn’t say anything until there’s an opportunity to be snarky and bag on Wukong. That is it.

Also, like I said at the start, Time never writes Macaque off. They acknowledge several times his complexity, and how he is a very nuanced character with multiple facets. But being a complex dick is still being a dick.

That’s all! If you’ve read this far thank you, and again, I don’t mean this as an insult, just a debate. Have a good day!

For fun how about rating Wukong ship from lmk and give your opinion why?

SWK Ship Ratings

(Scores rank from -10 at the lowest, and 10 at the highest)

Shadowpeach

Name Rating: 5/10. Basic, but rolls off the tongue. Started the trend of Sun Wukong having extremely basic ship names- more on that below.

Canon Rating: 0/10. Whatever they had in the past, Macaque simply treats Wukong far too awfully to really justify the two of them ever getting together. Even the attempts at reconciliation feel more like extremely forced ship baiting, given how it goes from one of the two being marginally kinder to the other than usual, then immediately dropping it for more sniping. (Past!Shadowpeach receives 5/10.)

Fanon Rating: -10/10. I’ve spoken at length about this, but fans love to distort Wukong into a drooling abuser so stupid he can’t breath through his nose, usually while turning Macaque into a Possession Sue who only serves to be the author’s simpering self-insert who is the most perfect little baby of all time who has never ever done anything wrong at all even once. If there is an attempt to be “nuanced” or “unbiased” it manifest as “Sun Wukong “killed” (re: defended himself against) Macaque so he’s worse.” It’s an awful, extremely pervasive dynamic that rots any fandom enjoyment I could have had for this couple.

Personal Enjoyment: 6/10. Getting to write Macaque as the legitimately awful person that he is takes off the edge of seeing constant “uwu sadboi” Macaque content. Still, I don’t touch anyone else’s Shadowpeach content because of this.

Peachlotus

Name Rating: 2/10. As you’ll see, most ship names involving Sun Wukong are, uh… extremely lazy. Just one of the other character’s traits with “peach” slapped before/after it. Fandom really dropped the ball with most of these. This one is especially clunky, at least on my tongue.

(See, Macaque gets stuff like Lunartides, Inkypages, Shadowpeach, etc- all very cool.. We need to diversify the nouns is what I’m saying. Coulda been something like “GingerRoot” cause orange fur + plant boy. “FlowerBuds” for the platonic name for peaches + lotuses. Do you guys see what I’m saying. It can’t just be raw peaches all the way down.)

Canon Rating: 2/10. Ne Zha also doesn’t treat Wukong too kindly, interacting with him mostly through insults and physical attacks. He does seem to have some understanding of the king, though, which gives him a slight boost over Macaque.

Fanon Rating: 1/10. It barely exists, and what little does exist is essentially just “Ne Zha is mad at Wukong over what the fuck ever, so they’re fighting” and little more. There’s a lot of potential for bonding over immortality and awful pasts or being commandeered by domineering authority figures, which I wish was used more often.

Personal Enjoyment: 2/10. I don’t see the dynamic, personally. Again, Ne Zha’s only interactions with him are only ever vitriolic or exasperated in nature, which doesn’t leave stable footing for a relationship to stand. Maybe I’ll make a chatbot for them one day and see if I come around to it.

“Freepeaches”

Name Rating: -5/10. This shit is exactly what I’m talking about with the lazily slapping “peach” onto whatever and going on. “Free” has no meaning between Wukong and Tang- it’s just a holdover from a more popular ship. Tang only mooches food from Pigsy. That’s one of the biggest elements of their dynamic. Sure, Tang likes free stuff (food, rides, physical labor), but when does he ever get that from Wukong? It just makes no sense.

AND IF IT HAD TO HAVE THE FRUIT, TANGYPEACHES WAS RIGHT THERE

Canon Rating: 6/10. Tang literally drew himself and the Monkey King together inside a heart. He adores Wukong, thought maybe not for who he truly is- and the two don’t any interaction in terms of Tang realizing his autistic parasocial special interest idol is a lonely old sage who misses his friends, which cripples what was a pretty cute dynamic. I think Tang coming down from his hero worship and being just a genuine friend to SWK would be cute, definitely.

Fanon Rating: 9/10. Pretty enjoyable! Freepeaches is one of the few dynamics where Sun Wukong isn’t constantly turned into a punching bag/villain to be beaten around for the amusement of the audience, and the two are often portrayed as legitimately healthy together- I especially enjoy how Tang is portrayed as needing to move past his hero worship for the two to have a healthy relationship. It’s cute.

Personal Enjoyment: 6/10. Never addressing the resemblance to Sanzang or having them interact in regards to this while the circlet is back on Wukong’s head feels like a massively missed opportunity, honestly. I think Sun Wukong’s personal feelings have been left to the wayside for far too long in canon, and getting to a point where almost every fucking character represses their feelings is lazy and boring.

Peachbuns

Name Rating: 4/10. Again. Just “peach” slapped onto an adjective or noun. It’s frustratingly boring. This one sounds delicious and both components are related to food at least, which fits Pigsy’s background… but it also sounds like something a horny dude would ask for pics of in your DMs.

Canon Rating: 1/10. Pigsy isn’t willing to take any of Wukong’s shit, so he serves as a pretty great “bullshit barrier” that provides a legitimately strict opposing force to Wukong, but there’s little else to even their relationship out. He’s never kind or supportive or worried- if the two interact, it’s always through the lens of “Pigsy is mad/suspicious”. There’s never any real bonding or growth between them at all.

Fanon Rating: 4/10. This ship barely exists, and when it does it’s Sun Wukong being lectured through life by a big strong man- not a dynamic I’m a fan of. However, it is surprisingly kind to Wukong in terms of empathizing with his struggles. Again, I wish there was less of “Pigsy teaches Wukong basic life skills” because it falls right back into the revolting fanon that is “SWK is a big dumb fuck who can’t read or cook or take care of himself without a husband to wipe his ass.”

Personal Enjoyment: 2/10. I just don’t click with it. Pigsy doesn’t like Wukong, doesn’t trust him, and doesn’t interact with him outside of that.

Moonstone

Name Rating: 10/10. This is what I like! Moonstone is not only a very real (and very beautiful) mineral, but it ties to both of them equally! You don’t see Wukong’s status as a stone-born demon be referenced often, so this is a refreshing change of pace from the constant “peach” names.

Canon Rating: 7/10. Chang’e is a lovely woman who is simultaneously not be willing put up with Sun Wukong’s bullshit while still legitimately respecting and admiring him. It makes for a nice duality in their relationship that most of his dynamics don’t provide.

Fanon Rating: 10/10. The working dynamic is so fucking good to start with that I’ve never once seen fanon drop the ball. Never. This ship is always so fucking sweet and honest with Chang’e calling out Wukong for his bullshit while never pushing it to the “Shit on Sun Wukong Show” levels that the fandom loves so much- she takes no shit, but does no harm. She’s supportive and acknowledges his traumas and fears. Wukong does his best for her. Moonstone shippers get an A+ and extra recess time.

Personal Enjoyment: 7/10. I just… I really like this one, dammit. There’s not a lot to go off of, but seeing fanworks that do not primarily treat SWK like living trash/baby the hell out of him is nice.

Lionpeach

Name Rating: 3/10. Again. Very boring and generic. I’ve seen Fuzzypeach which is a little cuter, at least. Still, it’s all the same “peach”+noun format.

Canon Rating: 3/10. The devotion Azure bears to Sun Wukong seems like it would bear a higher marking, but it’s shallow and flimsy. Azure never understood Wukong, never wanted what was best for him, never cared about his safety or happiness. Azure projects his beliefs and wants onto the people around him, blinding the big fella to shortcomings on their parts, and is delusional enough to never look inwards. Still, I can legitimately see

Fanon Rating: 0/10. It’s just smut. That’s it. When it isn’t it’s just “Ooooh! Azure is jealous of Macaque! Tee-hee, sorry Azure!” and that’s it. I’ve never actually seen any non-sexual, Azure-focused Lionpeach.

Personal Enjoyment: 5/10. It’s a fun enough dynamic to explore, especially with how unhealthy it is. I’ll probably make a bot of this too one day. Maybe a “yandere dads” type. Or a mutual Primal Moon bot.

Celestialchaos

Name Rating: 10/10. Another not peach-based name is a win in my book!

Canon Rating: 6/10. Xiangliu is civil enough to Wukong (about as much as everyone else), but the mention of them having once been friends is what got my attention. Shrouded past + + potential reincarnation shenanigans + decently civil behavior = a very happy writer. It’s so little but it makes my brain itch.

Fanon Rating: 0/10. It doesn’t even exist babes ;( I’m scrounging for water in the lonely plains of a desert y’all. I’m a lonely little cactus and Celestialchaos is my annual three-inch rain.

Personal Enjoyment: 10/10. C’mon now. You all were expecting this. I love this ship. I’ve already made four chatbots. I love Xiangliu as a wild little freak who desperately tries to push Wukong away from other people and sad lonely Wukong finding refuge in a freaky toxic snake. Especially I like the idea of Xiangliu pitting himself against Macaque and going after Sun Wukong just to cause a little trouble, only to actually catch feelings and start pursuing him in earnest. I like “I want you at your worst so I can prove that I still love you even then” Xiangliu and “You love me at all?” Wukong.

I really like this ship.

End Result

(Scores ranging from -40 to +40)

Shadowpeach= 1/40

(Past!Shadowpeach would around 20)

Lotuspeach= 7/40

Freepeaches= 16/40

Peachbuns= 11/40

Moonstone= 34/40

Lionpeach= 11/40

Celestialchaos= 26/40

[autism-autobot]

LMK'S "REDEMPTION ARCS"

I like Lego Monkie Kid's "redemption arcs", and that is a hill I'm willing to die on.

It's no secret that the 'redemption arcs' in LMK aren't your stereotypical redemption arcs, AND THAT'S OKAY!!!!!

I think that it's very nice to have evil/villainous characters have a moment of "It was at this moment that he knew... HE. FUCKED. UP." and then doing a 180 from their original plans.

The Demon Bull Family's arc is a great example of this. Heck, Princess Iron Fan and especially Red Son might not have even been antagonists if it wasn't for Demon Bull King wanting to take over the city/world. They love him so much that they were willing to follow him to the ends of the universe if that's what it took to help him fulfill his goals and dreams.

Then came their run-in with the Lady Bone Demon. That's when the Demon Bull King realized just how much his plans could cost his family if he chose to continue down this path. IT COULD COST THEM EVERYTHING

Everything that he just got back. The family who freed him from captivity, likely in spite of having been told that it would be a fruitless endeavor. His family: a beautiful wife and intelligent, innovative son who love him so much that they'd lay down their lives for him in a heartbeat. His plans could cost them their lives and almost did. While under LBD's influence, he attempted to strike his son... and Red Son didn't even try to move out of the way. He had no reaction period. DBK is absolutely strong enough to kill his son. Had his wife not stepped in, Red Son might have been killed by his own hand if the blow was hard enough. That realization alone of what LBD almost made him do could very well be the thing that made him turn back on the idea of world domination.

It makes total sense for a man who's number one priority is his family (even if he doesn't always show it) to give up on all else if his family is the price he has to pay.

It's just not worth it.

He later lectures Azure Lion on this topic of "The price is worth more than the payoff" when he says in season 4:

"This pursuit of yours has warped your mind, brother."

The exact same thing happened to him. DBK tried to warn him to turn back now.

But he didn't.

And now he's dead.

Doing a 180 saved the Demon Bull King's hide and it works so much better for the story overall than a long fleshed out redemption arc.

The villain getting a reality check is in my opinion a much better storytelling device than a redemption arc and is criminally underrated.

A metaphorical (lego) brick to the face is much more powerful in my opinion.

[cherllyio]

I want Pigsy's Noodles to be destroyed - a very angsty theory

(Spoilers)

I theorize this can happen, because if MK really does go apeshit, that would be the final trigger.

Because that little noodle shop, is the most comfortning place for MK.

Its the place he got a place to call home.

Its the place his dad is.

Its the place where he can seek comfort.

Therefore the best way to break MK, would be to take that away.

And then imagine if Pigsy was in the building when it got destroyed-