#leave the incest to targs and lannisters please

[snow-blower]

Do you ship Jonsa? I feel like you would

[raspberryfingers]

TW: SA

Banging my head on the table WHY DO PEOPLE CONTINUE TO INSIST THAT ANY/ALL OF TYWIN’S KIDS ARE AERYS’????

Like ok I’m so sorry to anybody who believes that but also fuck you?? Because it is so abundantly obvious that Tywin and Joanna loved each other. I fear it could not have been more clear. To insinuate that Joanna cheated is straight up ridiculous and I think some of you are a little too dedicated to hating Tywin Lannister! Like I get it, he’s horrible, that doesn’t mean he’s not a multifaceted character who had a very loving marriage???

I genuinely feel the only way any of their kids would be Aerys’ is if Aerys forced himself on Joanna. And then I see people going on about how “they really hope the twins aren’t actually Tywin’s!” Like what. Because you’re either so dense you can’t comprehend that Joanna wasn’t cheating or you’re just… perfectly fine with the idea of her being SA’d??

Like the way Aerys treated her was already so fucking atrocious, he literally SA’d her on her WEDDING NIGHT. I’m sorry there is no world in which Joanna ever would’ve willingly slept with Aerys.

Additionally, the use of moon tea in GOT is frequent enough that if Aerys had raped Joanna there would’ve at least been an obvious solution to making sure she didn’t end up pregnant??

“But the twins do incest and Tyrion looks like a targ-🤓🤓” WHAT IF I PUNCH YOUUUU.

Like I’m sorry but can you guys please leave poor Joanna Lannister alone. She doesn’t deserve the conjecture! Going back to how Tywin is also a complex character! Him being horrible doesn’t mean he would only love a horrible person! Hope this helps guys! Now please stop going on about this stupid shit!

[stormbornspawn]

Season 8 Game of Thrones predictions

These predictions are entirely my opinion. Would love to hear thoughts, but please be kind in the comments. Just because I don’t support a theory or storyline is not a reason to attack. Adult, civil discussion is always welcome. I am operating under the assumption that Friki’s information is legit and that Tyrion will be a part of some kind of betrayal.

Arya Stark - 90% survival rate - she fights until the end and will possibly help The Hound take out the Mountain - he is still on her list. The only way I can see her dying is in some kind of surprise attack, but she is supposedly present in the DP according to Friki’s info.

Sansa Stark - 80% survival rate - i don’t foresee her picking up a sword, but she will be instrumental in the battle of Winterfell in preparing the common folk, being ready to retreat with a certain signal, getting people out through the crypt tunnels, and exacting the retreat plans. Beyond her getting people out safely and retreating south - The Vale, maybe, I can see her being important in the politics of things and possibly uncovering information about Tyrion’s betrayal. The only way I can see her dying is if Cersei gets hold of her or she falls during the WF battle. Again - she is supposed to be present at the DP as well.

Bran - 90% survival rate - he will be instrumental in tracking the Night King’s movements and will be fiercely protected. He will also find out how to defeat the NK, whether that is how to forge Lightbringer (no Jon will not stab Dany), or something they have to do at the Altar of Winter, I don’t know. If he does fall, it will be as a sacrifice to the NK to save humanity - but he’s supposedly present at the DP.

Jon Snow (Aegon Targaryen) - 50/50 survival rate - he’ll be in the thick of things until the end, but may fall trying to save his family. I lean towards safe because he’s carrying huge plot armor having died once already. He’s legendary status whether he lives or dies. I am liking the theory of him giving himself up to Cersei and double crossing her with the Golden Company. She thinks she’s won, but they end up declaring for the Targs because they offer them back their lands and titles.

Daenerys Targaryen - 50/50 survival rate - she has baby plot armor and I really can’t see her dying in childbirth. What a horrible ending for her. It would be 100% bitter giving her a child and then she can never be a mother to him/her. Not okay and I really don’t see this happening as I believe that BoatSexBaby’s info is correct in that the baby is endgame. If she dies it will be post-birth by sacrificing herself to save the realm or to save Jon. There’s also a possibility that she is killed by someone she trusts or they attempt to kill her. She will also hold Legendary status whether alive or dead.

Jon/Dany relationship - there will be some initial tumult, but they will stay together and fight together no matter what because they promised each other and they are people who take their oaths seriously. I think the romance part will cool off some after the parent reveal as they stand in limbo with their relationship, but after the baby reveal, none of it will matter - they are the last Targaryens and it’s no coincidence that they found each other and fell in love - it’s a fate/destiny thing. I know the incest freaks some people out, but this is not a 2019 modern setting. It’s meant to be like a medieval society and those types of relationships were typical to retain lands and grow houses. So, if that bothers you - sorry, but it’s not going to matter in the long run. And if you really want to get technical, take a look into the British monarchy - loads and loads of incest and that’s real life, folks.

Tyrion Lannister - i believe Friki’s info to be true and with that assumption, Tyrion will 100% die. The only question is if Dany or Jon will pass the sentence. I think this is the big shock that is going to leave the fandom numb, shocked, and in need of therapy. If Dany passes the sentence, which I think she will, that will further divide the fandom especially those who already see Dany in a negative light. She’s my fave, but she’s not perfect. I welcome civil discussion o that point, but won’t tolerate blatant Dany hate (or any hate of a character really). I believe his betrayal will stem from the want to protect Cersei’s unborn child and he will set something in motion that rests on her having the baby - which we all know isn’t happening. It will blow up in his face. Some may think he was correct and the rest will think he deserves to die - this is what will fuck people up.

Jaime Lannister - 100% dead. He has to fulfill his redemption arc, so I think he will die saving either the Stark girls or Dany. Sorry.

Cersei Lannister - 100% dead - no question. It’s only how she dies that is a mystery. I like the theory that she kills herself with poison so that nobody can have the satisfaction of killing her. She’s going out on her own terms. She will fuck some shit up though. She will not go quietly into the night. :)

Mountain & Hound - dead

Brienne - 90% survival rate - she will mourn for Jaime, and no, I don’t think they will hook up - they might admit their feelings, but I don’t see that happening on screen - she will serve the Starks for the rest of her life. If she does die, it will be protecting Arya or Sansa

Gendry - 100% survival - restores House Baratheon through legitimization. Not sure if he and Arya will take things to the next level.

Pod - dead

Bronn - dead and likely complicit in Tyrion’s betrayal somehow

Davos - 100% survival rate - I will have it no other way. He’s supposedly present at the DP.

Qyburn - dead

Robin Arryn - 100% alive - present at DP and probably won’t see much more of him beyond a few scenes

Tormund - dead fighting the White Walkers

Beric - dead but not before resurrecting someone, maybe Dany or Arya - restitution for him selling Gendry to Mel

Melisandre - dead fighting the NK

Varys - dead - possibly part of the betrayal

Missandei - 100% lives - ride or die

Greyworm - 50/50 - alive because he’s a badass mother fucker; dead because it’s war and shit happens

Jorah - 100% dead - saving Dany or Jon

Ghost - 100% dead - don’t even talk to me

Rheagal - 100% dead - for real, say nothing

Drogon - 50/50 - I will lose my shit

Jon and Dany’s kid - 100% happening and surviving

I think the birth of the baby will happen concurrently with the trial. In essence, the rebirth of a great house and the death of another.

I think the iron throne will be gone and the it will be a parliamentary type government where each realm holds its autonomy but agree to certain inalienable conditions.

[joannalannister]

hi! i know u dont like the tyrion targaryen theory (understandably so), but how do you feel about tyrion having chimerism? (if u dont know what that is, it's when a person biologically has 2 fathers bc a woman had intercourse with 2 men within a short period of time, so the kid would have one mother and two fathers)

Hi! Thanks for asking me! This is a great question, and there are several things to unpack here:

the definition of chimerism and what you’re describing

the claim that Tyrion is a chimera

how this all relates to the Tyrion Targaryen theory

what this all means for Tyrion’s story as a whole

First, let’s define some terms, because what you have described is not my understanding of chimerism. I don’t claim to have extensive knowledge of biology – I’m basing my understanding on things I read in Scientific American, Time magazine, Wikipedia, etc – so if someone more knowledgable wants to correct me where I err or link me to some published scientific articles to help me learn more, it would be most appreciated. 

You seem to be describing superfecundation, not chimerism. Superfecundation results in two (or more) babies, not one. 

Superfecundation is the fertilization of two or more ova from the same cycle by sperm from separate acts of sexual intercourse, which can lead to two babies born at the same time from two separate biological fathers. While possible in humans, it is extremely rare, and most instances in humans occur from artificial insemination. (A technology which Westeros obviously does not have.) Superfecundation results in two babies born together who are half-siblings, meaning the two children have the same mother but two different fathers. I would like to stress that, while technically possible, superfecundity is rare in human reproduction outside of a laboratory. 

Superfecundation is more common in mammals with an estrus cycle (which humans do not experience). Superfecundity is often found in cats. “Superfecundation occurs when a female mates with two or more males. One litter can potentially have multiple fathers as long as they all mate with the female in the optimum time of conception. A single kitten cannot have multiple fathers; each individual kitten in a litter has only one father.” 

In cases of superfecundation, each individual has only one set of DNA. 

A chimera is a person who has more than one set of DNA. The term comes from the mythical Chimera, a mythological creature that is part lioness, part goat, and part snake. Chimerism occurs in humans when:

a twin dies in utero and the surviving twin “eats” / absorbs the other’s DNA. “Most human chimeras were, at one time, twins. Current theories posit that genetic chimeras develop spontaneously when fraternal twin embryos fuse or when one twin absorbs the other. The absorption process is called Vanishing Twin Syndrome, a haunting phrase to describe the ingestion process.“ [x] In natural pregnancies (achieved without the use of IVF), Vanishing Twin Syndrome is estimated to occur in less than 0.5% of pregnancies; it is rare. 

blood is exchanged by twins in utero

a person undergoes an organ transplant, such as a bone marrow transplant [x]

a woman becomes pregnant, and a small number of cells from the fetus migrate into her blood and travel to different organs [x]

the DNA of a child lost in utero is absorbed by the mother, turning her into a chimera “and invisibly altering her body into a kind of living memorial” [x]

From what I understand, you would have to combine superfecundation with Vanishing Twin syndrome to achieve the chimera situation you’re describing. 

Additional articles I found interesting:

“No, women do not absorb and retain DNA from every man they have sex with“

“Here’s why ‘two-dad’ babies aren’t yet a biological reality”

Perhaps I am not looking in the right place, but the only thing I was able to find (outside of reddit) about a woman having multiple partners resulting in a chimeric pregnancy, was a theoretical discussion on a Quora forum, in which it was hypothesized that a superfecund woman had sex with two men in a very short period of time, resulting in two fertilizations (very rare), and during the pregnancy one of the twins was absorbed by the other twin (also very rare), so that the resulting baby was a chimera with two fathers. 

No statistical probabilities were given, but this seems almost statistically impossible to me, even before considering this situation in a world without modern medical technology. 

In Tyrion’s case … If we were to assume both (1) superfecundity and (2) Vanishing Twin Syndrome to create a very, very rare two-father chimera … shouldn’t we see some evidence of Aerys’s DNA, as well as Tywin’s? 

If GRRM wanted us to figure this out, wouldn’t he make it more obvious for us? Aerys had purple eyes, while Tyrion has a black eye and a green eye. Tywin has green eyes. Aerys had silver/silver-gold hair, while Tyrion has white and black hair. Tywin doesn’t have white hair, but Tommen does. Aerys didn’t have dwarfism. Tyrion has dwarfism. Tywin has metaphorical dwarfism. To me, all this simply points to Tyrion having Tywin’s (”real” and literary) DNA. 

(I mean, we’re talking about the author who referenced Olenna’s broken betrothal and “queer” right on the page in ASOS, and we were all trying to figure out for years about Olenna, and it was right there in front of us. GRRM ain’t subtle.) 

So I don’t think that Tyrion is the product of superfecundity and Vanishing Twin Syndrome, both of with would need to occur in order for Tyrion to be a chimera with Aerys as one of his two fathers. Which is very unlikely. 

(More on why Tyrion is not a secret Targaryen and #A plus J does not equal T) 

I am not even 100% certain that Tyrion is a chimera (at least not the medical definition of a chimera). Don’t get me wrong, it’s an interesting theory: Tywin and Joanna conceive a second set of twins (and twins are common among House Lannister!), and one of those twins dies in the womb and Tyrion “eats” it (more cannibalism!) and absorbs his twin’s DNA. It puts an interesting spin on this quote:

Tyrion wondered what it would be like to have a twin, and decided that he would rather not know. Bad enough to face himself in a looking glass every day. Another him was a thought too dreadful to contemplate.

If this Vanishing Twin theory were true, it’s suggestive to me of Cain and Able, a good son and a bad one, and Tyrion has both of them inside him. But as far as ASOIAF theories go, I don’t think this is one that could ever be confirmed, save by word of God, and I’m not sure that GRRM would play into such a strict dichotomy. ASOIAF themes don’t support the idea that evil could be something (or someone) separate from oneself, something Tyrion needed to “absorb”. I think GRRM would be much more likely to say that the potential for evil is inside all of us (without the need of an evil twin) and it’s something we need to fight, constantly. 

So, I mean, it’s interesting to wonder if Tyrion is a chimera! 

But I don’t think he is. 

The only observable characteristic I see that could possibly point to chimerism in Tyrion is his heterochromia (the difference in coloration of the irises, hair, and/or skin). And heterochromia can be caused by many things other than chimerism. 

Heterochromia in infants may be caused by:

Horner’s syndrome

Sturge-Weber syndrome

Waardenburg syndrome

Hirschsprung disease

Bloch-Sulzberger syndrome

von Recklinghausen disease

Bourneville disease

Parry-Romberg syndrome

“Though multiple causes have been posited, the scientific consensus is that a lack of genetic diversity is the primary reason behind heterochromia. This is due to a mutation of the genes that determine melanin distribution at the 8-HTP pathway, which usually only become corrupted due to chromosomal homogeneity.“

Tyrion’s parents were first cousins. I mean, 

Fandom: Incest causes genetic mutations! It’s bad! Won’t someone please think of the children!GRRM: Here is my favorite character, Tyrion, son of Tywin the Incestuous Blood Purity Bigot. I gave Tyrion heterochromia. Fandom: That can’t possibly be due to incest. GRRM: Maybe – just maybe – Tywin’s obsession with blood purity has really fucked his children over in more ways than one. Fandom: …nah. Tyrion is a chimera. GRRM: …is this what you all do in the years between my books? 

When there are both genetic and thematic reasons to explain Tyrion’s heterochromia in the story … well, the idea that Tyrion is a chimera seems a bit overkill. It’s really not necessary to, well, other Tyrion any more than he already is. He doesn’t need all these weird and highly improbable explanations for why he is the way he is.  

(I mean, Euron has heterochromia, and no one is suggesting he is a chimera or a secret targ.) (And I don’t want to know if anyone is; leave me in my ignorance please.) 

In terms of how I feel about Tyrion have differently colored eyes and differently colored hair, I think it is thematic. Like his brother Jaime, caught in an identity crisis halfway down the page of the White Book, halfway between the Lannister shield and the white one … I think Tyrion is caught between the Lannister ideology of dehumanization, greed, lust etc (represented by the green eye, the white blonde hair) and his own humanity (shown to us in those moments when he designs a saddle for Bran, when he speaks up for Sansa, etc, represented by the black eye, the black hair). 

(The interesting thing to me is that unlike most authors, GRRM is using black here to represent heroism and humanity, when that is traditionally represented by the color white. But black is soft, black is enveloping, like a blanket to wrap around you to save you from the icy searing white cold. "By night all banners look black")

The heterochromia is a signpost representing Tyrion’s duality, his potential to go both ways, which I talk about in detail here. 

I hope that helps explain my views, and thank you again for asking!

[first-of-her-nxme]

Why do you ship Arya with Jaqen ?

This is what the books are about : a union of ice and fire.

This is canon for Arya like Rhaegar is for Lyanna. There is no other ship for her.

What works perfectly fine in fanfiction doesn’t work in the books. You can ship everyone to everyone and have a lot of fun in the process but it won’t change what the books are about. So have fun but don’t hurt yourself and respect GRRM’s story for what it is. His story.

Let’s take a look at Arya’s potential suitors.

Some people ship Arya and Aegon but Arya has no history nor future with Aegon. Young Griff is not a true Targ. Varys is probably Blackfyre and he wants a Blackfyre on the Iron Throne. Aegon will sadly lose the game. It is the irony of the books : a boy who has influential supporters, who has been raised to be a king and would most probably be a good one, will never sit the throne. Not for a long time anyway. The usurpers will always be cast down. Get ready Cersei ;)

I think many people ship A/A because they believe Aegon is the only interesting, noble born young man who is not related to Arya and who plays the game of thrones. But he is not the only hot gamer around. And he doesn’t even come around her.

After George Martin released “Mercy”, a chapter of The Winds of Winter, fans started to discuss this line : “I would like to see a dragon,” Mercy said wistfully.”  Some people believe aforementioned dragon is Aegon or Daenerys. Not even close. Aegon is a dragon in Tyrion’s arc, Daenerys in Jon’s. Arya has met her dragon at Harrenhal and she’s been waiting to see him again. 

In “Mercy” chapter Arya’s last days in Braavos parallel Jaqen’s first days in Oldtown described in the Prologue ( AFFC). Both chapters are so packed with symbols and hints at their identity, their future and their roles in the big game that they deserve another meta. I will only mention that apart from dragon we get the symbolism of the number three, fruits ( apples are very important in A/J plot ), stolen keys ( both Arya and Jaqen have one ) and their personal belongings : Arya retrieved her Needle, Jaqen has his Targaryen coin. 

But let’s leave Arya in Braavos and Jaqen in Oldtown for a while and take a look at another popular ship.

Many people ship Arya with Jon. I love both characters but the idea of turning a beautiful sibling love into an incestuous relationship all of a sudden is so unlikely that I can’t imagine even D & D doing it. There is no Jonrya in the books and it’s not happening in the show.

George Martin did mention Tyrion-Arya-Jon love triangle in his letter to a publisher years and years ago when he only had a draft of the story. He abandoned the idea very quickly and never got back to it. Usually people don’t find incest romantic and perhaps that’s why George Martin stopped shipping Arya and Jon.

Jon Snow and Arya Stark are so close in the books because they are both outsiders in Winterfell. 

Jon knows he doesn’t belong in Winterfell because he’s a bastard and Catelyn Stark never fails to remind him about that. Arya wants to have a life on her own, something more that her mother has planned for her.

Arya resembles Lyanna so Jon’s attachment to her hints at who his mother was. Jon, secretly a Targ, is Arya’s favorite - a hint at Lyanna’s love for Rhaegar ( remember that we’ve been told Rhaegar kidnapped Lyanna ), a nod to Lyanna’s love for Jon and a hint at Jaqen’s, another fave of Arya, true heritage. 

Jon and Arya relationship is not a romantic one but it proves that ice and fire work just fine together. It’s also a beautiful example of sibling love as opposed to Cersei and Jaime incestuous backstabbing relationship and Cersei’s hate for Tyrion, a Lannister outsider.   

Then of course we have Gendrya fandom. 

What we get in Gendry-Arya-Jaqen chapters in the books is a very subtle explanation why Lyanna and Robert could have never been together even if he hadn’t been such a cheating excuse for a fiancee.

First off all they didn’t choose to be stuck together. Lyanna never chose Robert for her husband. Arya has no choice either, she is forced to travel with Yoren and the boys.

Arya likes Gendry but she also finds him annoying at times. He is quiet, he doesn’t bully her like other boys do but he is stubborn and not as clever as she is. She feels sorry for him when she learns the Lannisters are chasing him as well. She notes his looks but there is no spark in that, she is being practical. She is left with Gendry and Hot Pie, a weak, whiny boy. Gendry is different. He is older, he is tall and strong. He could be of use if she wants to escape. He can forge the steel, he could help her, he could serve Robb. 

But Gendry doesn’t care about the Starks. He likes Arry but he is not happy with Arya, a daughter of the North, lady Stark. In Acorn Hall he tries to symbolically deprive her of everything that he doesn’t like about her by ruining her dress. Like Robert tried to trim Lyanna to his expectations. And like Robert and Lyanna they make a cute couple in the eyes of the others but Arya doesn’t feel like this. She observes people’s reaction to them but she doesn’t identify with it.

Finally she concludes Gendry is not her “true pack” and she decides it would have been stupid to give up her goals to stay with him. She thinks that’s something Sansa would do. Arya doesn’t know how Sansa has changed. The last time they saw each other Sansa was willing to give up everything, her pride, her family for a boy. Arya is nothing like that.

Last but not least we have Valyrian looking Jaqen H’ghar. The full package. Arya describes him as very young and handsome. She likes him so much that she forgets how she used to mock Sansa and, like other girls, she’s openly admiring Jaqen. Arya Stark “half a boy, half a wolf pup” doesn’t mind being kissed or called lovely, sweet and gentle when the pet names come from Jaqen. She even objects when Jaqen mocks her for being “evil child.” Jaqen, go back to lovely girl, please ;)

Like Arya, Jaqen comes from a great house. That’s one of the first lessons Arya gets from the Kindly Man : we’re not Braavosi, we come from Old Valyria. 

Jaqen respects Arya and her loyalty to House Stark. He understands that her duty to protect her family is a matter of life. He is honorable like Rhaegar Targaryen. Gendry wants him to die in the fire but Jaqen never tries to take his revenge on him. Instead he pays his debt to Arya. He swears his loyalty to the northern girl under the weirwood tree. He breaks the rules for her and he marks her with the blood from his sword, showing the gods that whatever rules he’s breaking he’s doing it for her. He draws parallels between them “a girl should be bloody too”, “we must part for I have duties too.”  Like Arya’s life his life is entangled in politics, religion and magic. 

Arya follows Jaqen, stares at him, gets her first ( innocent ) kiss. And saves his life. It’s very interesting under what circumstances she’s doing it. In the middle of the hellish fire when Gendry comes back for her she refuses to go with him unless he helps her to save Jaqen. Gendry objects so she sends him away. She’s scared to death but she’d rather risk her life than leave Jaqen behind.      

There we can see that instead of giving us Tyrion-Arya-Jon love triangle George Martin revised Robert-Lyanna-Rhaegar story and put Gendry, Arya and Jaqen in their places. Luckily for them, this time there is no Baratheon/Stark betrothal and their break up doesn’t bring as tragic consequences. Hopefully Stark/Valyrian reunion will be happier for Arya Stark and Jaqen-Whatever-His-True-Name-Is than it was for Lyanna and Rhaegar.  

Thank you for asking :)

Cheers !

[kittykatknits]

Ned/Sansa in GoT: Exact Same Story

I’m usually careful about criticizing Ned online as he’s an almost sacred figure in this fandom. However, Ned and his daughter have almost the same stoyline in Game of Thrones. The biggest difference between the two is that loyalty to his old family (Robert and Jon Arryn) drive many of Ned’s action while loyalty to her future family (Joffrey and Cersei) drive many of Sansa’s.

So, obviously, they both leave WF and head south to KL landing at the same time, both go to Cersei with information, and end up as prisoners of the Lannisters. But, the parallels between their stories begin almost from the first chapters. First, Cat points out to Ned that he knew Robert the man from long ago, not necessarily the king he is today. Her statement to Ned here is almost the same as what Sansa thinks to herself in her first POV chapter. Sansa openly admits that she hardly knows Joffrey at all but does love him. So, at the beginning of their journeys, we have established that the drivers for each of them (King Bob and Joff) are individuals that Ned and Sansa don’t really know.

It’s also repeatedly established that Sansa idealizes Joffrey, she makes him the perfect prince that appears in stories, he’s golden, handsome, and gallant. It’s hinted that Ned did something similar with Robert, even when they were younger. He describes him as “muscled like a maiden’s fancy”, describes his battle prowess, his charisma and so on. Ned also tries to convince his sister that Robert would be a good husband to her. Yet, Robert already had a bastard and a reputation with women by then. It’s important to note that we have a good understanding of what Ned believes to be a good husband, shown in the relationship he develops with Cat and his treatment of her. To add to it, Robert seemed to spend almost as much time whoring during the rebellion as he did fighting. Robert also was pleased with Tywin’s killing of the Targ children which greatly upsets Ned. They do eventually reconcile but the broader point is that Robert was never quite the man Ned believed him to be. Upon Robert’s arrival at WF, Ned see the man has grown fat, drinks constantly, and disrespects Cersei in front of his household and the court.

So, bottom line, Ned and Sansa don’t quite know these two men nearly as well as they think they do and as the text goes on, they tend to explain away or ignore the evidence. Moving on to the death of Lady, we can look at what actually happened. Sansa’s sees Joffrey’s behavior there on the trident but manages to later explain it away. Sound familiar? The other big thing to notice at this time is the events that take place when Lady’s death is actually ordered. The entire court is gathered together to discuss what needs to be done. Ned has Sansa brought into the room and she explains that she does not remember what happened. Cersei demands the death of Lady, Ned pleads with Robert, but Robert decides to have Lady killed. Robert is running from the responsibility as a parent and a ruler here, he gives the order mostly because he just doesn’t want to deal with the situation and walks out of the room afterwards. But look who Ned and Sansa blame - Ned blames Cersei for it but it’s his own childhood friend who gave the order. Sansa blames Mycah and Arya rather than Joffrey/Cersei. They both do the exact same thing here despite evidence right in front of them.

Later, during the hand’s tourney, Robert is prepared to enter the melee which Ned is eventually able to talk him out of. Ned is actually pleased at the end of the scene, telling himself that the man he once knew is still there. Again, he’s got page after page of proof that the man Ned once knew is gone. He doesn’t goven, the realm is in debt, he avoids responsibility, he drinks, he whores, yet Ned tells himself the old Robert is still there. Sansa once again does the same thing. She manages to convince herself that Joffrey is the golden, noble, gallant prince she believes him to be - despite evidence otherwise.

Later, Ned’s actions are all guided by Robert. He confronts Cersei to 1, try and save her children 2, save Robert from killing them. Ned changes the will out of respect for Robert, keeps quiet about the incest out of love for Robert, refuses to act against the Lannisters despite repeated advice otherwise. Later he’s convinced a sheet of paper from a dead king will save him. At the end, Ned gives up his honor and admits to treason to save Sansa.

Now, back to Sansa, it’s the same thing. She decides to ignore her father’s words about Joffrey, she decides to go to Cersei exactly as Ned did, she puts her trust and faith in Joffrey and Cersei (the letter to WF and begging in front of the court). Sansa begs for her father’s life and supplicates herself in front of the court to save him. Here, we notice that she dresses carefully, plans her words, using the best tools she has to save Ned. In reverse, Ned admits to everything the Lannisters want, giving himself the best chance to save Sansa.

In the end, Ned’s loyalty to Robert led to his death. Sansa’s loyalty to Joff/Cersei led to her imprisonment. Past family, future family.

The big difference? Ned is older and more experienced than Sansa and has a whole lot more information than she ever did on just how dangerous KL was for them.

@qinaliel better writeup I mentioned to you.