#last tag is literally just because aerith always has tifas back and i love them

[novakaiserart]

been catching up on Rebirth and i cant get over Aerith trying to be the wingman to both Cloud and Tifa while they're way too dense to pick up on anything

really hope Zack and Aerith get to catch up :(

following pic is me to Cloud for being such a fucking dick to Tifa all the time

[dutchdread]

Bruh, we don't want to hear about your negative views about cleriths. Cloud loves Aerith and he always has. He lives in her church because he loves her. He thought of Aerith a lot in OG , On the Way to A Smile, and AC. He went to live in her church. Why tf would he go live in her church if it wasn't for Aerith? There are millions of places he could've gone but he chose the church. You don't have to believe our way of thinking if you don't want to, but don't tag clerith in your posts.

Thanks for your question. I think it's important to have these conversations so we can clear up these misunderstandings. Clouds motivations have been well documented so it's unfortunate that large swaths of the fandom seemingly are still in the dark about something that has been known for quite a long time, and I blame lack of communication. Before I answer your question though I'd like to address the style of it, since I find it amusing that in response to my article concerning productive conversation styles you not only used one of the styles I described, but even the same exact argument. This is a nice confirmation for me that I am right on the money. In my article, I said that the "dishonest inquiry" is the Clerith conversation style of choice. The example I gave was as follows:

The dishonest inquiry: “Why don’t you admit that Clouds actions in AC show that he doesn’t love Tifa?”

You mirrored this approach by saying "Why tf would he go live in her church if it wasn't for Aerith?". The defining characteristic of the dishonest inquiry is that the question isn't asked with the goal of seeking clarification, but as an offensive tactic meant to attack the others position, you're not trying to evaluate your position, you're trying to get others to re-evaluate their position under the guise of a question. If we look at the rest of your post we can see the indicators I described for someone who has reached the last stage of the debate style. "Cloud loves Aerith and he always has. He lives in her church because he loves her". As I noted in my article:

If assertions are backed up, they are backed up with other assertions designed to dissuade rebuttals, rather than investigating veracity.

This "argument" had no actual arguments, it was a meaningless assertion. Stating that you are correct in an attempt to avoid having to actual show that you're correct. "Cloud loves Aerith and he always has. He lives in her church because he loves her": This is what you're trying to prove, you can't state what you're trying to prove as your starting premise.

If you're honestly interested in learning more about FFVII then leave out the baseless assertions, they literally just waste peoples time and makes them less willing to engage with you.

If I had to rephrase your question in a way that's more inviting for a productive discussion it would be something like this:

"Why do you believe Cloud chose Aeriths Church as his hiding place in AC? He thinks about Aerith a lot, what do you think the reason is for that if it's not love?".

The answer to this is pretty simple of course, it's been restated several times, this is not something that is some grand mystery, it's not even an aspect of FFVII that's particularly ambiguous. The reason he stays in Aeriths church is the same reason he's seen lingering at Zacks "grave", it's guilt. As stated in the 10th anniversary ultimania, and several other times:

when Cloud contracts Geostigma he disappears. Behind these actions lies feelings of guilt towards his past failure to protect people who were important to him

While this is an element of the story that has been explicitly confirmed through ultimanias and quotes, this is not an element of the story that was ever in any way unclear, its a direct continuation of Clouds character arc in FFVII. Infact, Clouds mental health issues are the central part of the fake persona storyarc, and is arguably the core of the story. The rough order of events shown in FFVII, on the way to a smile, and Advent children (and also CC) concerning Clouds mental health is as follows. 1: Cloud as a boy want to protect Tifa. 2: Cloud fails to protect Tifa. 3: Cloud and townspeople blame Cloud for Tifas injuries. 4: Cloud internalizes this and beats himself up over his failure to protect Tifa. He develops a fear of failure. 5: Cloud starts acting up, starts wanting to prove himself, and decides to join Soldier to impress Tifa. 6: Cloud fails to get into Soldier, develops an inferiority complex. 7: Cloud is too ashamed of his failure to face Tifa. 8: Cloud fails to save his mother. 9: Cloud fails to save Nibleheim. 10: Cloud fails to save Tifa, again. 11: Cloud fails to save Zack. 12: Cloud develops a soldier alter ego that is everything that he isn't, as a defense mechanism. He hides from his own weakness. 13: Even as a soldier, Cloud fails to save Aerith. 14: Cloud regains his memories in the lifestream, and discovers he did fulfill his promise to come save Tifa. Here we basically end FFVII, and go into on the way to a smile. At this point Cloud has overcome the alien parasite messing with his mind by establishing a stronger sense of who he is. However, now that he's lost his fake soldier defense mechanism he's forced to deal with the past. His past failures haven't been fixed, he doesn't suddenly think he's a great person now, he simply can no longer use his fake persona to hide from his own weakness, and is forced to confront it. 15: Cloud still blames his own weakness for the deaths of Aerith and Zack, he thinks that he needs to atone for his sins, and thinks that the only way to do this is through living* 16: Cloud starts living with Tifa and experiences happiness and peace for the first time in his adult life.** 17: Cloud develops cherophobia and survivors guilt. He feels ashamed for being alive and happy while Aerith and Zack are dead because of him.*** 18: Clouds mental health deteriorates because of these feelings.**** 19: Cloud finds Denzel and sees him as a way to atone, having found a pathway to redemption, Clouds situation improves.***** 20: Cloud is unable to save Denzel from geostigma, and contracts it himself. 21: Clouds mental health worsens again, he failed again, he is unable to save Denzel, he is even unable to save himself, he won't be able to atone for his sins through living. He potentially brought an infectious disease into the house and as a result of his actions Tifa and Marlene will now lose him. 22: Depressed and ashamed, Cloud runs away. He thinks Tifa and Marlene are better off without him, he doesn't want them to see him waste away and die, he feels like he doesn't deserve to be happy and should instead die alone, Etc. Classic depression. (Some quotes concerning the *** are at the bottom of the article)

As for why he thinks about Aerith and Zack a lot, and hangs around the places that are connected with them, what else do you expect? Of course he's thinking about them, they're the people he failed, they're DEAD because of him. Cloud is a caring man, he beats himself up over it, of course he'd be thinking about them. And where else would a man wallowing in guilt and self-pity go than to those places? But the important thing to remember is that none of this is supposed to be seen as romantic. It's supposed to be viewed as sad and negative. Every internal character arc has something to overcome and this is what Cloud has to overcome in Advent children.****** Tifa to Cloud: "have we lost to our memories?" Cloud to Sephiroth: "Stay where you belong, in my memories" A well written story has internal and external obstacles to overcome, and ties the two together. In the case of advent children, the return of Sephiroth is the physical representation of Clouds internal character arc, which is that he should stop living in the past, and should move on. The past here isn't a positive thing he wants to get back to, Clouds past has always been a thing he's ran away from, but then is forced to accept. The past in Clouds case is a bad thing, his failures, and is something he should stop dwelling on. If you've ever seen the lion king, this resembles the scene where Rafiki hits Simba with a stick. "What does it matter, it's in the past", "yeah but it still hurts", "Oh Yes, the past can hurt, but the way I see it you can either run from it, or learn from it".

When Cloud returned to his normal self, he stopped running from the past, but as a result, he started dwelling in it. That's what he's doing in Aeriths church; dwelling in misery.

If we juxtapose Aeriths church with the 7th heaven, we can start to see where peoples misunderstandings are taking place. When some people look at the events of ACC they think that 7th heaven is a place of sadness, which Cloud leaves to be happy at Aeriths church, the place of happiness. The "have we lost to our memories" is then seen as a confirmation of this and that the memory, which they think corresponds to Aerith, is better than life with Tifa. This character arc then concludes with Cloud being happy by finally leaving Tifa behind, and riding off in the sun-set in search of Aerith at the end of the movie. But this interpretation falls apart as soon as you apply context to it, both narratively, and factually, it doesn't fit with with developer quotes, as well as the fundamental story themes of FFVII. 1: If 7th Heaven/Tifa is a place of sadness, then why has Cloud been consistently quoted to experience happiness there? 2: If 7th Heaven/Tifa is a place of sadness, and Cloud leaves at the end of the movie, then why has it been stated to be his promised land, aka, his land of supreme happiness (the reason it's literally called 7th heaven), and why is he stated to return there? ******* 3: If Clouds "memories" are positive, why is the plotarc resolved by Cloud telling the villain to "stay there"? 4: If Cloud is happy at the church, why is he living in self-deprecating squalor? 5: If Cloud loved Aerith and thought Denzel was sent to him by her, why did he abandon him? 6: Do you really think SE would write a story about a "hero" whose main emotional hurdle concerning the past comes down to. "I am sick of the girl I am with, I prefer the one that is dead, so I will get over the past by letting go of the girl I am with, as well as my adoptive children, to go chase the dead girl"? 7: Don't you think this would do Tifas character a tremendous disservice and do you think SE would be that preferential in their treatment? I could go on, but I think the point is clear. While the "Aeriths church is a happy place" interpretation is semi-coherent when looked at in isolation, it becomes exceedingly bizarre as soon as you place it in context. As I am fond of saying, this is not a matter of personal interpretation, it's a matter of lying to yourself vs not lying to yourself. I also suspect that this is the reason why SE changed the ending to advent Children, because people were misinterpreting it in this bizarre way, so they made it more in your face. In context, the following interpretation is much more fitting. Aeriths church is a place of sadness that Cloud runs to because of his guilt and depression. The "memories" line refers to Cloud dwelling on his past mistakes, as evidenced by his constant quotes about needing forgiveness. The character arc of moving on from the past is then resolved when he forgives himself, and as a result, defeats sephiroth, the metaphorical demon of his past. This allows him to return to his place of joy, his promised land, the 7th heaven, with a more positive outlook on the past. Instead of tarnishing Aerith and Zacks memories by wallowing in the past he instead moves on from it, thereby allowing it to become beautiful, which is represented by him planting Aeriths flowers on Zacks grave, and placing Zacks sword in the church. Instead of Zacks grave being the place where Zack died, it is now the place where a hero was born. Cloud has moved on, he has let his mistakes go, and has learned to come to terms with himself. I think it's hard to argue that this version of events is much less shallow, and much more meaningful than the story of a lovesick guy who abandons his partner and adoptive kids to go chase after a dead girl, but that's just me, what's more important is that it's the only version of events that's corroborated by the evidence. Thanks for the question. __________________________________________________

Corroborating quotes (not comprehensive)

* from case of Tifa: "“I’m going to live. I think that’s the only way I can be forgiven. All sorts of things…"

** Nojima in AC prologue: "“Cloud never had a candid personality to begin with, and although he started living with Tifa and even started working, he obtained a peaceful livinghe’s never experienced before, and this conversely made him anxious. And in the midst of this he contracts Geostigma himself, and rather than being able to protect the people dear to him, he instead was forced to face his own death, and so ran away.” (among other quotes)

*** 10th anniversary ultimania: "when Cloud contracts Geostigma he disappears. Behind these actions lies feelings of guilt towards his past failure to protect people who were important to him"

Aeriths 10th anniversary profile : Aerith still lives on in the hearts of her friends who saved the planet. And in particular to Cloud, as a symbol of his failure to having being unable protect those dear to him, she was a major factor in causing him to close himself off. -Aerith’s 10th anniversay profile.

And more, really this is reiterated constantly.

**** From case of Tifa: "During that time, it was Marlene who noticed a change in Cloud. She told Tifa how Cloud would sometimes space out and not listen to her.

Transporting mail around the world meant he was traveling around his past too. She knew that Cloud was in great pain because he couldn’t protect Aerith. Cloud was trying to overcome that and live on. But, going back to the place where he parted from Aerith might mean that his sorrow and regret was going to tear his heart again.

It was night, and they had closed the bar. Cloud was drinking alcohol even though he rarely did. He drained his glass. Tifa thought about it before going over and filling his glass.

***** From case of Tifa: "Tifa wondered if they became a real family after Denzel appeared. Cloud was clearly taking less jobs. At night, he would always make sure he had time to spend with the children. The silly little conversations he had with Tifa were also back."

****** Reunion files, page 58: "As long as Cloud blames himself for Aerith’s death, he won’t be able to move on with his life. One of the first ideas we had for Advent Children was to have Cloud overcome and resolve that immense feeling of guilt. For Cloud, no one other than Aerith can solve that problem for him."

- Takahiro Sakurai pg. 15 reunion files: After Cloud was told, “Which is it? A memory or us?: by Tifa, he tells Sephiroth, “Stay where you belong. In my memories,” just before he defeats him. I think Cloud finally becomes free at this moment. Deep down, Cloud knew that he shouldn’t be so hard on himself, but at the same time he couldn’t let go of those feelings of guilt for what happened to Aerith and Zack, or the thought that he could never forgive himself for it. But then his companions made him feel better by telling him to let go. ******* "The place where he awakens—- That is Cloud’s Promised Land As he sleeps, Cloud hears two voices. The voices of two people very dear to him, who are no longer with him. Playfully and kindly, they give him a message: he doesn’t belong here yet. When he awakes, there was his friends. There were the children, freed from their fatal illness. Tifa and Marlene, and Denzel asking for Cloud to heal his Geostigma— his family were waiting. Engulfed in celebration, he realizes where he is meant to live."

"Aerith lends her power to the people suffering from Geostigma in Edge, and personally provides for Cloud’s recovery. Geostigma is cured. Cloud returns to Tifa and the children."

-  FFVII 10th Anniversary Ultimania Complete Timeline

[silver-wield]

What's your thoughts on when the plate falls and Cloud went to go help Tifa?

My thoughts or my analysis? Cause you’re getting the latter anyway lol I love doing action analysis, there’s so much happening and getting the chance to slow it down is great for getting a fuller picture.

Ok, spoiler warning for ppl who haven’t played – do I still need to do this? Eh ok, (I tag FF7R spoilers as final fantasy 7 remake spoilers) and it’s gonna be long.

Also, this is one person’s interpretation of the scene, so if you disagree that’s cool and we’ll agree to disagree.

You’re also gonna have to excuse the janky quality on some of the screens, I’m grabbing them from Youtube and it’s frustrating af trying to get the exact moment I want.

Other analyses if anyone’s interested.

Shinra HQ vision scene (Cloti/plot analysis) 

Chapter 3 (Cloti reblog) 

Tifa character analysis 

Aerith Resolution (plot analysis/theory – I should probably update this since I’ve had other ideas since then) 

Train graveyard (not really an analysis, but I got some sweet screenshots of Cloti) 

Clotiscrew tunnel analysis 

Cloti reunion analysis 

The Promise Analysis 

Andrea’s approval (Cloti ask response) 

Leslie analysis (not mine, but a good read) 

Cloti action touching 

Aerti friendship analysis 

Cloti body language chapter 3 

Cloti healthy disagreement 

Cloti post heliboss battle (chapter 15) 

Clerith playground scene 

Now, strap in and enjoy the ride.

Recap time!

This is a 6m scene I'm going over, so I'm gonna skip anything not directly relevant or I'll be here all night lol

So despite our brave heroes best efforts the plate is coming down. We get a power slide from Rude, a call from Tseng (who times it so perfectly was he watching?) and some cloti.

First thing we see if Tifa looking distraught. She has no idea how to stop the plate from coming apart and from the way she's looking at this consol wouldn't know what to do even if she could work the computer. They were so close to winning and now defeat is about to stomp all over them and kill everyone she loves. Tifa is someone whose driven by the desire for those she loves to be safe no matter what. This is a crushing moment for her.

Murderous Cloud is murderous (and kinda hot). I mean, we know he's got very little reservations about killing people in cold blood because he's SOLDIER!Cloud when it comes to a fight, but I do like the deadly intent we see on his face at different points in the game. He looked at Johnny a bit like this back in chapter 3 and now he's looking at Reno the same way. He means business.

And then he doesn't because Tifa's in trouble and we all know Real!Cloud prioritises Tifa's safety above everything else. That's not me saying he's no longer SOLDIER!Cloud, but the difference between the last screen and this is that he was fully in that badass merc mode about to kill Reno because it's what badass mercs do, whereas this is Real!Cloud urging him to refocus all that skill he's got into protective ability and go save the woman he loves.

I get some people might not see the distinction between the two personas, but it's actually really easy when you break it down. If it's about Tifa then Real!Cloud is gonna push for dominant action to keep her safe. If it's any other situation then he's just gonna let SOLDIER!Cloud do what he needs to. Sometimes it's a more conscious battle between the two and sometimes they co-operate. That's how a fractured psyche works within the context of Cloud's character. Don't believe me? You see both of them on screen at the start of chapter 8 in the church. Real!Cloud is the one saying “You okay, buddy?”

How many times can you count that we get an 1st person pov with Cloud in the whole game? Like literally looking through his eyes? Because this is 1st person pov. We are Cloud at this moment in time and he's rushing Rude, but still takes a glance at Tifa. I don't think this happens at any other point. This game is a 3rd person game. We're over everyone's shoulder. We don't get in their head to see through their eyes. This is deliberate framing. We obviously can't see his face or his reaction, but the fact we're seeing this moment as Cloud and he's chosen to look at Tifa is a big thing.

So Rude's pushed the button and Barret's yelling. Cloud actually looks more halfhearted in this swing than I expected. It's like Barret's fury just isn't enough to get his blood boiling lol

He's about to go after him anyway, when Tifa's voice stops him dead. I can't think of a moment in the game where someone else calling for him to stop actually makes him stop.

AH! Honestly this is such a move! Romantic hero hello! I know it's a classic move from Cloud – which is kindly weirdly implemented since we first saw it after OG, but it's been retconned as one of his signature moves with Tifa and only Tifa.

Also! EYE CONTACT! I'm gonna scream about Cloti eye contact until my own eyes cross lol they do eye contact so damn well! The only other person who got Cloud to look him in the eye was Andrea Rhodea lol Everyone else it's either confrontational eye contact or total avoidance. Cloud and Tifa have good eye contact. This highlights how much they trust each other. Even though Real!Cloud is afraid of letting Tifa know how weak he really is, he's ok with her looking him in the eye. He wants her to see the real him.

Now, I know some people go on about Tifa's chapter 3 comment of “Cloud, you're scaring me/your eyes didn't used to look so” as a negative thing. I've already explained why this is fucking bullshit, and I'd like to add that if Tifa wasn't comfortable with him in combat situations or otherwise she wouldn't make eye contact with him. Eye contact is fucking terrifying! You're able to see so much. These two aren't afraid to look in each other's eyes, even with their “I don't think he/she likes me” misunderstandings.

And just to cap it. They both smile to reassure each other they're ok.

Ok, so Reno and Rude are making their exit. Barret tries the FF7 boomer version of turning a computer off and on again by shooting it. Then Tseng proves he's either psychic, a stalker or just dramatic af by appearing on screen at just the right point to answer Tifa's question.

And look at her face! Whoever said she's a heartless bitch can stfu forever! This is the face of a woman who is broken by what's about to happen! She's lived in that slum for five years. She probably knows every local by name, and takes time to actually get to know them too. She cares. So much. She doesn't want anyone hurt. She's pleading for their lives. Pleading with her enemy. Who literally smirked when he said “there's nothing you can do now”. Tseng has no conscience.

Just adding this to be a butt. This is Cloud's reaction to Aerith when he sees her....what reaction? Yeah...

Then he asks where she is in his SOLDIER!Cloud way.

So Aerith gets dragged away and explosions start happening. A siren goes off. Barret and Cloud turn away from the computer. Tifa turns and says, “No no no no no” and Cloud immediately turns back. His eyes widen and he looks a bit lost for a moment. There's nothing he can do for her and he's not got the first clue anyhow, and there's no time. It's hitting him just how much she cares. I mean, he knew, but he didn't know, you know?

Notice the awkward hand there? Yeah, that's an “I don't know how to comfort you, what do I do?” hand gesture. Cloud's literally never seen Tifa like this. She's always trying her best to remain optimistic. She fights hard to protect what she loves. She doesn't fall to her knees defeated.

I'm actually loving all the extra insight all these analyses are giving me into just how reserved, how introverted, how determined Tifa is. She's had a hard fucking life. Born in a dust bowl, lost all her friends to the big city, saw her father murdered, almost died, her town got burnt to the ground but she still somehow managed to pick herself up and build a new life. She did that on her own. Nobody got her to Midgar. When she arrived she was lucky Marle took care of her. She could've been left alone with no support system. She got in with Avalanche and built a new family – even though they don't always see eye to eye on method, she also believes in their goal to stop Shinra and save the planet. She's principled and brave, focused af. But she's not unbeatable. Stuff gets her down. She tries her best to be cheerful, but doesn't always succeed. She keeps her problems to herself. But this? This is too big. This has broken her. She can't stay up and Cloud doesn't know how to help. Not emotionally, anyway.

OMG HE OFFERED HIS HAND!! I didn't see that before!! (Check the spot where his name is, his hand is between Tifa’s hair and arm, palm open.) I knew he grabbed her by the arm and hauled her up when she didn't move, but he's actually holding his hand out for her before that!! She's too in her head to do anything, though, and I don't think Cloud really understands that. Any devastating feelings he had about personal tragedy he's locked away because they literally broke him. It must be distressing on some level for him to see his own emotions mirrored in Tifa. I said before the urge to comfort her starts at the beginning of chapter 13, but maybe the first spark of that is this moment here, when he can't do a thing for her, except pull her along behind him and hope he can keep her alive.

There's some really nice still shots in this game and this is one of them. I don't really have anything to say about it. I mean, we knew Cloud had both hands on Tifa's shoulders so he could direct her where to go and she's not really with it until the moment the debris falls in front of her and shocks her out of her stupor. Cloud's focused on the job at hand, no time to worry about anything but the next obstacle. By keeping both hands on Tifa's shoulders he's ensured he doesn't have to keep checking on her to make sure she's with him. He's basically piloting her because she's not capable of decision making for the moment.

Someone tell me, do action backhugs count? That's non-optional embracing right there. How many of you have seen this exact moment? Because I have literally been replaying the same 4s clip to get the screen for this bit and this is the first time in about 10 replays that I stopped it here. This is the between 1 second frames when the debris falls.

I mean, this is what a bodyguard actually looks like. Cloud's focus is all on keeping Tifa safe. He pulls her close to him, offers strength while she's feeling weak. He is literally using himself as a shield for her. They're such a balanced couple. When one is weak the other is strong for them, and whatever flaws they have they accept. They really are just a great couple!

Probably the worst screen I've ever grabbed lol

I was trying to figure out the moment he took her hand but I can't quite stop on it and it's just a touch too much out of frame. Instead, I got this. EYE CONTACT. I don't need to explain it again, right? We get the whole Cloud/Tifa eye contact deal by now.

Although, at the same time, that's a fucking scary shot of Cloud lol reminds me of that meme with Rinoa and Squall where she says he's the best looking guy there and it's all pixellated lol

Ah! I remembered why I was trying to get their hands, to see if Tifa grabbed his first or he took hers. But I could see through the playback that he took her hand. He initiated contact.

Yknow, I know people often compare the whole one half is always the summoner or mage and the other half is the warrior, but this screen right here looks a lot like another FF couple.

Tidus and Yuna.

I mean...do I have to say more?

Cloud looks behind to check Tifa's ok – I mean she's not but you get the point. Still getting Tidus and Yuna vibes from this moment tbf. This is the exact same type of sequence they had of them in FFX-2 when Yuna's dreaming Lenne's past and she and Tidus replace Lenne and Shuyin. They're running down a corridor and Tidus looks back at her. I mean, seeing how this type of comparison is usually only reserved for the whole mage/warrior pairing, it's strange that their body language here mirrors Square’s first fully voice acted installment. At the time the graphics were cutting edge and the cut scenes are still lauded as some of the most beautiful storytelling. Strange that Tifa and Cloud could have this comparison to Tidus and Yuna, especially with the whole Suteki da ne always being used to prop up a certain ship.

Anyway, Cloud’s checking on Tifa cause he’s totally not in love with her and wants to make sure she’s safe. You get the idea lol

I'd like to point out that Cloud doesn't – despite popular opinion – have hold of Tifa's jubblies. His arm is under them, wrapped around her ribs, which is actually a very secure hold for him since he's trying to hang onto Barret and keep hold of Tifa too. You'll notice she's not exactly paying attention to her own safety – which makes sense since Cloud literally had to haul her up when she wouldn't move. She's not in a good headspace during the end of this scene, so he's being very protective towards her.

Conclusion

Another great piece of action! I mean, does it really matter if these two are in the trenches or just hanging out? They have a synchronicity that's impossible to deny. They balance each other in pretty much every single way there is for a couple of be two halves of a whole. The FF10 comparison is a new one on me, especially since I don't look at two titles and try to see what about each one is like the other. They're both different and unique with their own charm. But, the second I caught that screen of Cloud pulling Tifa along I was immediately hit by the thought of “That's what Tidus and Yuna do”, so I couldn't not mention it.

We get a clear look at how devastated Tifa is immediately after the realisation hits that sector 7 is about to get crushed. She's just gone. Checked out. If Cloud hadn't stepped up to save her she'd have died. She wouldn't have got herself over to Barret in time and he would've died going to get her and get them back to the zip line. This is why it's so important that Cloud picks up the slack. He was strong when she needed him to be. She's strong for him later when he becomes weak. They really are two halves of one whole. 

I love that Tifa gets her own character development. She’s not just “the love interest”. Barret is basically a supporting character here, but we know he’ll get his turn in Corel and he does get his own moments to shine in Midgar, but this is cloti, so sorry dude, next time.

[avaantares]

FFVII:REMAKE - A Review

So I beat the game two weeks ago and started writing down my thoughts while they were fresh in my mind, but I didn’t post anything then because my one IRL friend who is also playing it hadn’t finished it yet and I didn’t want to risk posting anything spoiler-y. But the extra time has allowed me to play through the game again on Hard difficulty, which has allowed me to reconsider and elaborate on some of my thoughts. And frankly at this point I just need to dump my Very Big Opinions somewhere, so... here ya go.

I discuss visuals, gameplay, character and story below. I’ve tried to keep spoilers minimal up front, though obviously if you want to go into the game totally cold, don’t read this. All major spoilers are clearly tagged. All of it is below a cut to spare your dash.

Also, there are pretty pictures, because why not?

First, my background with this franchise: I played through the original FFVII multiple times; I’ve watched and rewatched Advent Children and Last Order, played Crisis Core, gave up on Dirge of Cerberus despite my deep love for Vincent Valentine (sorry, VV, but your game was just a mess), and lamented that Before Crisis wasn’t available in my country. I even played (and own!) Ehrgeiz, the obscure fighting game that featured the main cast. (Still bitter that they didn’t keep Miki Shinichirou as the voice of Sephiroth. He’s one of my faves.)

^ Ehrgeiz, a mediocre fighting game that forever endeared itself to me by including Turks!Vincent Valentine as a playable character. 💖

In short, I’ve been waiting for this game for DECADES.

So. Here we go. My thoughts on Final Fantasy VII: REMAKE.

The good:

The character models are very pretty. With individual pores, threads and scuffs visible, they’re so detailed that it’s almost impossible to reconcile them with the mouthless sprites from the original game – even more so than Advent Children (and dear goodness, that was over a decade ago now, wasn’t it?). Still, they’ve kept the costume details and absurd proportions largely intact (Barret’s fists are literally larger than Tifa’s entire head, yet somehow it works visually), so it’s not too much of a departure from the familiar.

They’ve kept the aesthetic. I was afraid the game would try to update the iconic world of Midgar, but by and large, it’s full of visually-arresting designs that preserve the gritty-industrial look and feel of the original.

Japanese version is included. BLESS YOU, Square Enix, for including the Japanese voices and character animations. Not only is it impossible for me to hear Cloud in anything other than Sakurai Takahiro’s voice, but the Japanese script is a bit nicer to the characters. I’m not really keen on the English dub… but more on that below.

They fixed the spelling of Aerith’s name. This may seem like a minor point, but considering it’s been 20 years and I’m still bitter that Devil May Cry still hasn’t corrected “Nelo Angelo,” it’s a small victory.

Improved combat. Admittedly, I wasn’t sold on the new combat system at first, but after playing through the game twice, I’ve come to really like it. It has a few rough edges and can get chaotic in some battles, but it does a decent job of blending the feel of an action game with turn-based strategy. The fact that you can switch to a more traditional turn-based system if you prefer is also nice. (I haven’t tried Classic mode yet, though.)

Weapon customization. The Skill Points system allows you to upgrade your loadout instead of acquiring new gear. The tutorial was somewhat lacking (I didn’t quite figure out the multiple-core-unlock thing right away), but I appreciated the ability to add materia slots or stat buffs rather than just cycling through a dozen swords that Cloud apparently keeps in his back pocket.

Background dialogue management. On the whole, the conversations as you run through town enhance the story without slogging down the gameplay; you don’t have to stop and talk to every single resident, because snatches of their conversation reach you (and your on-screen chatlog) as you pass. You can stop and listen for more detail if you want, or you can just keep moving. The extra worldbuilding is really nice.

The music. The orchestrated versions of the original themes are excellent (and some of those music cues gave me goosebumps… Did I spend way too many hours immersed in the original game? Probably). I can take or leave some of the collectible jukebox tunes, but the background music in general is good. (But did I earn that Disc Jockey trophy? Yes, yes I did.)

Supporting character development. Jessie, Biggs and Wedge actually have characters! And personalities! Clichéd ones, admittedly, but it’s an improvement over the original game killing them all off within the first few minutes. The game also does justice to the Turks, and actually surprised me with how much depth of character it gave Reno and Rude in particular (perhaps setting them up for a mini redemption arc so players forgive them for dropping a plate on tens of thousands of slum residents?). Their moments of concern for each other and (brief) crises of conscience made them more than the stock villains they were in the original game, more in line with their temporarily good-aligned characters in Advent Children. Tseng, likewise, was on point. However, I do have to qualify all this with one irate question: Where the heck is Elena?! Seems like the female characters are always getting left out… /sigh/

Improved plot devices. REMAKE cleans up some of the more questionable and outdated content from the original. As you likely already know from the demo, the new game somewhat exonerates the protagonists by having Shinra blow up their own mako reactor to turn public opinion against AVALANCHE (possibly because someone finally realized that it’s hard to sympathize with characters who are willing to melt down an entire reactor and kill a bunch of innocent civilians). AVALANCHE are still eco-terrorists, but they’re… terrorists with a conscience? I dunno, at least they feel bad when people die now… Likewise, the weird and uncomfortable Honey Bee Inn segment of the original game has been reborn as an amazing dance extravaganza. Less voyeurism/prostitution, more Vegas floor show (complete with minigame choreography) and makeover. The whole Don Corneo scenario is still hella creepy, but frankly, there’s nothing that can fix that.

Series references. Fans of the original will appreciate all the inside jokes and direct references to the original game and other franchise entries: One-off comments about Chocobo racing; a broken console in Wall Market that shoots at you; a framed picture of the original 32-bit Seventh Heaven; ads for Banora apple juice; side mentions of characters and plot devices from spinoff games; PHS communication… The game definitely pays tribute to its history. They even recreate the original loading screen and several of Cloud’s iconic poses/animations throughout the game:

The neutral:

Recycled gags. Look, I know Advent Children was the ultimate evolution of FFVII for a while, and admittedly, it did some things very well. The running gag with Rude’s sunglasses and the victory fanfare being used as a ringtone are some of the best moments in the film, in part because they were so unexpected. But as much as I enjoyed the repeated nods to AC in this game, they felt a little desperate, like there were no new jokes to insert so they had to double down on the ones they’d used the last time this franchise had a renaissance. (See Rude’s broken sunglasses, below.) And fitting into the series as a whole, it feels a little weird. Why is Rude’s ringtone the same as the clones’ from Advent Children? Does Barret really need to sing the victory fanfare over and over when he defeats an enemy? Is there supposed to be some history behind that song that was left out of the worldbuilding? It just feels too meta.

Arbitrary localization of names. I don’t really grasp why it was necessary to rename so many items and characters for the English market. Some changes make sense for localization (e.g. Whack-a-Box certainly works better for an American audience than Crash Box), but others seem arbitrary, like changing Aniyan Kunyan to Andrea Rhodea or Mugi to Oates (a play on the meaning of his name in Japanese, but... does it matter?). And then… well, I don’t want to spoil A Major Plot Element, but there’s another thing that changes names from one English word (in the Japanese track) to a different English word. Why? No idea. It doesn’t affect gameplay, and it’s not really a problem, but listening to the Japanese track, I found it jarring to have the subtitles contradict what I was hearing.

Underutilized characters. While the whole gamut of original FFVII characters make appearances, several of them aren’t used to full effect, or aren’t used at all to advance the story. Rufus Shinra’s bossfight is a decent challenge, but while his character was vital to both the original FFVII and Advent Children, his presence in this game is little more than a cameo. His fight could be cut or swapped out with any other boss, and it would have zero effect on the plot. Similarly, while Hojo is a key player in the full story (which this game doesn’t cover, since it’s only a fraction of the original timeline), he’s largely wasted here, except as a means of extending play time by making you wander through corridors and fight a bunch of monsters for “research.” (I have no idea what his motivation is; you’d think he’d be more interested in recapturing Aerith or Cloud, but instead he just... opens an elevator and lets them leave? after they beat up some midbosses.) Reeve Tuesti actually has a solid presence in this game, but since he’s ONLY ever active as himself, there’s no explanation for the random Cait Sith cameo in one scene (players new to the franchise probably have no idea why a random cartoon cat showed up for a few seconds and was never mentioned again). Obviously the plot arcs have to change when the game is covering only a few days’ time in a much longer story, and the major players need to be introduced at some point if they’re going to feature in later games in the series, but from a narrative standpoint, there are an awful lot of superfluous characters doing things for no reason in this installment.

The bad:

THE PADDING. Dear goodness, there is so much padding to make this a standalone game instead of just the first chapter of a longer adventure. I got really, really sick of running literally from one end of the map to the other on side quests – and that’s me, an avowed trophy hunter who spends hours scouring dark corners for collectible items in other games, saying that. So much of this game felt like time fill that didn’t really advance the story. It’s also full of unnecessary new characters with improbable Squeenix hair, like Roche the super-annoying motorcycle SOLDIER (below), or Leslie, Don Corneo’s doorman who somehow merits his own backstory and side quest. (Though in fairness, every FFVII sequel has added superfluous characters, with Crisis Core possibly being the worst offender.) But it just felt really drawn-out and bloated for a game of this generation. If this game had been as compact and tightly-written as the other games I typically play, it probably only would have taken me 15 hours to beat instead of 50. (I don’t actually know how many hours I spent on it the first time through, as I didn’t check the play clock before restarting on Hard difficulty. I do know it took me over 110 hours total to complete the game on both modes, though much of the second run was spent dying repeatedly on a handful of nasty fights. Hard mode removes items and MP replenishment, and if you run out of MP at any point during a chapter, you’re going to die. A lot.)

The pacing. Related to the above... the Midgar portion of the original game was just the setup for a larger story. It wasn’t meant to have its own complete dramatic arc so much as to introduce you to the world and the major players. Consequently, there are some really odd beats in this story, as well as a total lack of urgency in your mission. There are no natural places to slot in the side quests and minigames, so they’re shoehorned awkwardly between plot sequences. “Quick, our friend is in mortal peril and needs our help!” "Okay, cool, we’ll go rescue her after we spend ten hours running around town doing random errands for townspeople and playing games with the local kids.” Uh... what?

The graphics just aren’t as good as they should be. While the character models are gorgeous, there are a lot of low-res background textures and weird polygons that don’t quite match up with other components. Most egregious are the Shinra logos, which frequently get close-ups as part of the fixed camera work and, frankly, look like lossy JPEGs. (See image below, screencapped from a PS4 Pro. Those jagged edges on the logo are present throughout the entire game.) There are weird clipping errors and artifacted images and reflective surfaces that don’t reflect, making the game look more like something from the PS3 era than a 4K late-gen PS4 game. (And it’s not that we don’t have the technology: Uncharted 4 was released back in 2016, and the rendering of its vast world was twice as pretty. Devil May Cry 5, released in early 2019, has far more realistic textures and object interaction. Granted, those are different types of games with fewer NPCs to render, but I feel like there’s no excuse for a game this big to look this mediocre.)

The HUD could be better. The lower-corners concept is okay, though it took me a while to train my eyes to travel between both sides of the screen and track the fight action. But for a long time, I didn’t even notice the commands in the upper left corner of the screen, and after playing through the game twice I still have no idea what they say because I couldn’t focus on the tiny text long enough to read them while trying not to die in combat. (I just looked it up; apparently they’re combat control shortcuts? Huh, that would have been useful to know.) It wasn’t until my second time through that I realized there even WERE separate controls on screen during the motorcycle minigames; I had resorted to panicked button mashing to figure it out the first time through because there was no tutorial (you’re just dropped into the action) and, having ignored the small text for the previous hundred combats, I had no reason to look for on-screen instructions there. Not that it would have helped, since on many backgrounds the text in the upper left is really difficult to read (see below). It’s worth noting that I have better than 20/20 vision and played this game on a large TV screen and still had trouble reading some things; on a smaller TV, or for someone with less acute vision (like my sister, who is blind in one eye), I think even the basic menu controls would be difficult to see. While you can resize the font for subtitles, my cursory glance through the menu did not uncover an option to increase the size of the HUD. 

Inter-fight menu mechanics. Specifically, the inability to save (or save loadout settings) between fights in a multi-part sequence. There are several back-to-back fights in which it is necessary to switch characters or change gear between bosses. The game treats them as one continuous fight, though it does allows you to access the equipment menu by holding square during key cutscenes. Which is good, if you only have one of a particular materia or accessory that you need to switch between characters, and in most cases when you die the game lets you restart just before your current fight instead of restarting the whole sequence -- also good, since some multi-stage bosses can easily take 20-30 minutes to beat, and if several of those are strung together in sequence, you’re in for a long play session to get past them. But since it’s treated as one fight, you can’t save between bosses (more than once, I had to leave my PS4 running in Rest Mode overnight and just hoped we didn’t have a power glitch), and if you happen to get killed and need to restart the fight, your loadouts reset. Which means if you’re, say, fighting the end boss on Hard difficulty and get killed in the first two minutes -- which happened to me a lot -- by the time you restart the fight, sit through the unskippable cutscene, access the menu and rearrange all the materia and accessories you need, you’re spending five or six minutes gearing up for two minutes of play, and then doing that over and over again every time you die. It gets really old.

The English dub script. *deep breath* Okay, look, I know I can be a bit elitist about translations, but I really do not like the English adaptation of this game. It makes Cloud come across as less socially-awkward and far more of a deliberate jerk, Aerith is mouthy and even swears (which is not accurate to her original character), and it downplays some of the symbolism that’s more obvious in the Japanese script. One quick example: When Aerith gives Cloud a flower, she says (in Japanese), “In the language of flowers, this means ‘reunion.’” It’s subbed/dubbed in English, “Lovers used to give these when they were reunited.” That’s a subtle difference, but since the concept of “reunion” is a freakin’ huge part of the FFVII plot, and since Sephiroth was on screen literally seconds before that line is delivered, my brain automatically went, “OMG REUNION!!!” while I’m guessing people listening in English only picked up on the romantic subtext. It’s a pretty minor thing, and of course translation is always a complex balancing act between literal meaning and local market understanding, but the English version just seemed to me to have a different vibe overall. (Unfortunately, the English subtitles are the same as the dub, so unless you can understand the Japanese audio you’re kind of stuck with that dialogue.)

-

-

[WARNING: SPOILERS BELOW THIS POINT]

-

- …And my #1 complaint about Final Fantasy VII: REMAKE is…

…it’s not actually a remake.

Sure, the game starts out the same way and covers a lot of the same events, but fundamentally, it’s a sequel, not a retelling. It’s evident from Cloud’s future-oriented visions throughout the game that something else is going on, and the ending MAKES NO SENSE if you don’t already know the story. Heck, even the rest of the game doesn’t really make sense if you don’t know the story -- Sephiroth’s presence is never explained; Zack isn’t even introduced, just shows up randomly at the end; Cloud’s flashbacks of Tifa and her dead father in Nibelheim are left as a complete mystery (and since she evidently remembers the burning of her town, judging by her dialogue outside Aerith’s house, why doesn’t she even react when Sephiroth shows up?).

The core elements of the plot – the Feelers (Whispers) preserving a specific fate; the three entities from the future (whose weapon types just happen to correspond to certain named characters) defending their timeline; the return of post-Advent Children Sephiroth (the only time we’ve seen him in human form with one black wing), who has inhabited the Lifestream since his death and promised that he would never truly disappear, who in the end appeals to Cloud directly for an alliance rather than attempting to control him, because he knows now that Cloud is strong enough to defy the Reunion instinct; the change in the outcome of story events in which Biggs (and, unconfirmed as to which timeline he’s actually in, but quite possibly Zack) now survives his intended death -- all point toward Sephiroth trying to manipulate destiny into an alternate outcome in which he is victorious, and using this naive version of Cloud to facilitate it. That means this game is taking place in an alternate or splinter universe, created at some point after the events of the original Final Fantasy VII, and possibly even after the events of Advent Children.

All of that is fine from an overall continuing-story perspective – it opens up a lot of interesting possibilities, like the fact that Aerith might survive now that Cloud has seen prescient flashes of her death (among other events), and there are opportunities for more story twists and changes from what players might expect. But touting this as a remake of the original game has the potential to confuse players who are new to the franchise. FFVII was groundbreaking back in 1997, and it defined JRPGs for an entire generation of Western gamers. But that was more than two decades ago, and a lot of current gamers weren’t even born then, so while they’ve probably heard of the classic game, they aren’t necessarily steeped in its lore. FFVII:R relies heavily on prior knowledge of the series to carry its twist ending, so it largely fails as a standalone game.

Also, speaking as a longtime fan of the franchise… I honestly found the ending rather lackluster. It was a twist, of sorts, but not the sort of shocking, mind-bending revelation that made the first game so iconic. Granted, it’s hard to follow an act like revealing that your protagonist’s entire identity is a lie, not to mention killing off one of your main characters a third of the way into the story! But when the surprise ending is just, Surprise! We’re going to change things up a bit this time around so you aren’t entirely sure what’s coming! Also, here’s a gratuitous Sephiroth fight because everyone expects that, even though it doesn’t serve the main story at all nor resolve any conflicts previously established within this game! it smacks of Different for the sake of Being Different, not for the sake of a really amazing storyline they’re hiding up their sleeve. It’s a bit of a let-down, and I find that I... just... don’t really care that much. Which, for someone who’s been a fan of the series for nearly a quarter of a century, means there’s a Big Freaking Problem somewhere. If you’re not keeping the attention of your die-hard fans, how do you hope to build a fanbase of players new to the franchise?

Given the pacing and story issues inherent in this game, I’m not convinced that the following game(s) in the franchise are going to be structured any better. Considering the amount of pure side-quest padding they did in Midgar, I have no idea how they’ll maintain that same tone on something the scale of the World Map portion of the original game, unless they just completely eliminate things like Fort Condor and the submarine and the spaceship side quests. I have a feeling the Gold Saucer is going to be reduced to a Jessie flashback, a Chocobo race (probably to win a key item), and a battle arena run like the coliseum in Wall Market in this game. If they include all the story elements and side characters from the original, this series is going to be a dozen games long.

Still, on the whole this game was enjoyable, and I’m glad I played it. It wasn’t as good as I’d hoped, but they haven’t completely killed off my interest, so I’ll probably continue with the series whenever the next game comes out. Though I’m not really sure if the higher-priced edition I pre-ordered was worth the extra money, so I may wait and see how the next game is shaping up before deciding which version to get...

But if they don’t give me a really pretty (playable) Vincent Valentine in the next installment, I may riot. I do have priorities.

[silver-wield]

So I was reading through your masterlist and saw "cloti healthy disagreement" and for some reason I thought it would be about the argument they had in AC. Was not disappointed on the post, of course, you're amazing as always. But if you have the time, what do you think about their little "lover's quarrel" in the movie?

I gotchu! At last lol

Okay, onto some Advent Children stuff. I'm prefacing this by saying I'm definitely not an expert on this one. I've seen the movie like 3 times.

Ok, spoiler warning for ppl who haven’t played – do I still need to do this? Eh ok, (I tag FF7R spoilers as final fantasy 7 remake spoilers) and it’s gonna be long and also not about FF7R, but who’s paying attention to this bit?

Also, this is one person’s interpretation of the scene, so if you disagree that’s cool and we’ll agree to disagree.

You’re also gonna have to excuse the janky quality on some of the screens, I’m grabbing them from Youtube and it’s frustrating af trying to get the exact moment I want.

Please check my master post to see if I've already covered your question, thanx

Let's mosey!

Recap time!

So, after Cloud finds Tifa in the church and then passes out so they can do a whole yin yang symbolism thing—which I get is supposed to look cool and showcase how they are the other half of each other, but I kinda just wish they'd had them lying together because the way that happened just doesn't make sense.

But, back to the house. When Cloud wakes up it's day time and then when Tifa wakes up it's night. So he has literally stayed by her the entire day, despite the kids being in trouble. Kinda feels like I shouldn't point out how people said Cloud is kid centric in AC where I said he tolerates the ones that aren't his family, but given a choice he'll choose Tifa over everyone, but yeah, I probably shouldn't go on about how Cloud is a bit of a dick to everyone except Tifa lol

“Reno and Rude are out looking.”

Okay, so Tifa wakes up and the first thing that Cloud says to her is Reno and Rude are looking for the kids because he thinks that's the first thing she's gonna ask about. He says this as he's walking around the bed, like he can't bare to stand still and look at her, like he's expecting her to dismiss him.

Since we know from OTWTAS that he thinks he's not good enough for her again and that she shouldn't care, this reaction is expected from him.

“You have geostigma, don't you?”

We don't get to see Cloud's reaction to this because his back is to us, but Tifa's eyes are wide and earnest looking and she's upset. This is inter-shot with clips of Cloud riding his bike towards the Forgotten City because this is what he's thinking about as he's on his way there.

And Cloud even glances back the way he came to further hit home that he's thinking about this talk with Tifa because that's how important it is to him. His gaze skims his right arm, which we know he associates with strength and keeping his promise to protect Tifa.

“You're gonna give up and die, is that it?”

She sounds so heartbroken when she asks this. She looks heartbroken too. When he doesn't reply, she can't look at him and sits up, curling into herself to protect herself from the emotional pain that Cloud's inflicting on her.

“There's no cure.”

Tifa immediately turns back to Cloud to argue that Denzel's still fighting. She's got tears in her eyes and she's trying so hard to be positive.

“Don't run, let's fight it together.”

Tifa turns towards Cloud and we can see from the wider angle that he's got his head down and looks defeated.

“I guess that only works for real families.”

And by real, Tifa means regular ones. Husband, wife, bio kids. Not what they have, which is being not-married, but living together as though they are and raising a kid who isn't theirs biologically and also taking care of their friend's daughter, who also treats them like they’re his kids. Their family is unorthodox and Tifa's questioning whether their odd family isn't worth fighting for because it's not perfect or normal like other people's, and this makes her sad because she was content with her family. She loves Cloud and Marlene and Denzel and never questioned if what they had was a family or not because she thought it was. She wants to know if Cloud thinks so too. He left her. Ok, he had good reasons in his head, but what if one of those reasons is he wasn't happy with his family the way it was?

“Tifa, I'm not fit to help anyone. Not my family, not my friends, nobody.”

Half of me wants to shake Cloud, but then the other half is like “oh you poor precious bean you need hugs”

He's clearly in the depths of his depression to the point he thinks he's totally useless. His body language is so low I don't think he could curl himself over anymore than he already is. He can't look Tifa in the eye, and for a guy who does good eye contact with her this is a big deal. Cloud is wallowing in his self-doubt, guilt and sense of failure. He calls her his family, though, so he’s given her an answer that he thinks what they have is a family, which is something.

“Dilly dally, shilly shally.”

I know this is to show how silly Cloud's being, but I hate this line. It sounds so ooc for Tifa. It's definitely more fitting for Aerith later on. Then again, she probably got the words from Aerith at some point in the past, so that could explain why she uses them.

Cloud's head is down until Tifa says this, then he starts to look up and we get a clear view of his eyes for the first time since the scene began. He looks upset, but surprised and confused too. Like “wtf is Tifa talking about?”

And when Tifa repeats the words in a firmer voice, while not looking at him because I'm betting this confrontation is hard for her too, Cloud looks away and tries to figure out what she means by it. And then Reno throws him a bone by telling him because Cloud obviously has lost his Tifa mind reader ability for a while lol

The two images also look like a callback to real vs soldier Cloud, so there’s that too.

“They're at their base: the forgotten city.”

And both Cloud and Tifa look away when they hear where Kadaj is holed up, because Tifa knows it's here that Cloud started slipping into depression and Cloud knows it's a place he doesn't want to go back to because he feels so guilty about Aerith. If he goes, he'll have to confront his guilt and work through it, and that's why during the conversation with Aerith he says he wants to be forgiven in response to her asking why he's there. He made the choice to confront those feelings and not run anymore. He still feels like he doesn't deserve it which is why he says he wants to be forgiven, but later during the chat with Vincent he resolves those feelings and decides to try fighting for what he has in the present instead of being weighed down by the past. It's his friends and family who ultimately help Cloud past this.

“Go.”

Tifa looks at Cloud when he tries to avoid the confrontation with his guilt. She tells him to stop running because she can hear a weak excuse when it's being said and sees what Cloud's been doing now that she's got the full picture. He's scared and feels guilty and like he's not good enough. He got sick and couldn't help himself or anyone and thought everyone would be better off without him. He turned away from their love and support because he loves them and didn't want to make them suffer because of his inadequacies. It's his childhood trait of not being good enough for everyone coming out, and it's one that Tifa resolves again by showing him love and support and telling him he is good enough.

“You need to think about now. Really take it in.”

Tifa is telling Cloud to live in the present and to stop letting the past ruin him. He can't change what happened, but he can make a difference now. If he stops running away.

“Look at you, you think you've got it so damn hard.”

I love the shot of her ring here. It's not just drawing attention to the fact she's wearing the equivalent of an engagement/promise/wedding ring and that it matches Cloud's wolf head stuff, so clearly came from him, it's that by showing us this shot of her hand, we're being told that she's giving him some tough love. They're a couple and that means they can have tough conversations. Tifa doesn't like confrontation, but she won't avoid it if it matters. And Cloud matters because he's basically her husband and she loves him.

“Sure you might not answer the phone, but I don't see you throwing it away, either.”

Tifa knows Cloud so well that she can say things like he hates being alone and refuses to throw his phone away and to let people in. She's almost begging him at this point. Trying to justify how she wants him to not give up and that they need him just as much as he needs them. She's drawing attention to the front that he's acting like a loner, but picks up his messages.

And Cloud's expression shifts when she says this, too. He's acknowledging the fact she's right.

“Which is it, a memory or us?”

Tifa's saying will Cloud let himself die because of his guilt and everything that's gone wrong or will he choose to live in the present with his family who love him? She’s pretty much crying by this point because she wants him to live.

“But, I let you die.”

And there's the confirmation of Cloud's guilt being the reason for his behaviour. And then Aerith repeats the same line Tifa does, implying that Cloud's being an annoying butt and should move on and forgive himself since no one blames him except himself.

In conclusion

AC Cloud is annoying af and I give massive props to Tifa for loving him even when he's like this. Their conversation is pretty interesting from Tifa's pov, especially when you think how hard it is for her to have a confrontation. She uses body language that's typical for her passive personality trait, but then when it comes down to it, she turns and gives it her all for Cloud. Because that confrontation is for him. It's not because of him that she's doing it. He's not a reason to fight, he's someone for her to fight for.

[silver-wield]

Hi! Sorry for bothering you. Don't know if you already did this one (so many analysis) but what did you thought about Sephiroth killing Barret scene? Everyone just go running to Barret and Cloud just froze.

No bother! Sorry for the wait, I had a few things on my plate to clear lol

Ok, spoiler warning for ppl who haven’t played – do I still need to do this? Eh ok, (I tag FF7R spoilers as final fantasy 7 remake spoilers) and it’s gonna be short-ish.

Also, this is one person’s interpretation of the scene, so if you disagree that’s cool and we’ll agree to disagree.

You’re also gonna have to excuse the janky quality on some of the screens, I’m grabbing them from Youtube and it’s frustrating af trying to get the exact moment I want.

Other analyses if anyone’s interested.

Shinra HQ vision scene (Cloti/plot analysis) 

Chapter 3 (Cloti reblog) 

Tifa character analysis 

Aerith Resolution (plot analysis/theory – I should probably update this since I’ve had other ideas since then) 

Train graveyard (not really an analysis, but I got some sweet screenshots of Cloti) 

Clotiscrew tunnel analysis 

Cloti reunion analysis 

The Promise Analysis 

Andrea’s approval (Cloti ask response) 

Leslie analysis (not mine, but a good read) 

Cloti action touching 

Aerti friendship analysis 

Cloti body language chapter 3 

Cloti healthy disagreement 

Cloti post heliboss battle (chapter 15) 

Clerith playground scene 

Cloti body language plate fall 

Cloud and Barret friendship 

Resolution scene analysis (A) 

Barret character analysis (chapter 13) 

Cloud character analysis (Honey Bee Inn) 

Now, strap in and enjoy the ride.

Recap time!

Okay, so our intrepid heroes have found Aerith, but then Cloud has a ptsd induced attack and passes out. After some exposition courtesy or Red and Aerith, we're back on mission to reach the roof and the Avalanche helicopter waiting for us – thanks to Wedge the cinnamon roll.

Once we reach the President's office we can hear shouting and make our way outside to find Shinra dangling from 70f up. Poor bby. Lemme help you up.

Anyway, Barret stops Tifa going to help (you’re too kind sometimes, T), grabs Shinra and after some massive restraint on his part, tosses him back onto solid ground. He pursues Shinra through the office and then in classic moron moment finds Shinra has a gun pointed at him. I'm not sure why the others didn't go too, but for whatever reason, they're in the doorway while Shinra is making his selfish bastard speech and Barret forgets he's got a literal machine gun for an arm.

Seconds before pulling the trigger, Sephiroth materialises out of thin air – and Cloud's Sephy sense didn't even go off this time – and he stabs Shinra, killing him in an echo of his OG death.

You get a shot of surprised Cloud and Tifa, then Barret lunges for Sephiroth while whispers appear through the doorway.

Ooh damn I'm good! 2nd go and I stop on this shot. First one was blurry.

Ok, this is obviously the moment where Sephiroth runs Barret all the way through. Remember, his sword is like 8ft long or some ridonculous shit like that. It's massive. He has zero need to get close to someone when he stabs them. He didn't do this with Shinra, he was like 3 feet away and still there was plenty of sword sticking out the guy's chest (anyone wonder if Seph is compensating for something? Lol).

Ok, so the point I'm getting at by showing Sephiroth this close to Barret is that this is a personal attack. This isn't something he's done just to kill someone. He's stuck that massive sword all the way through Barret's chest until he's within touching distance of him. This is an attack on Cloud. This is his way of showing Cloud that the vision from the VR scene could absolutely be true. He can make it true.

As for Barret, well he's just been stabbed, so he looks like he wants to go for pizza lol

Tifa automatically reacts and wants to run to Barret and save him. She's lost way too many people over the last day and can't lose anyone else. This is expected of her being the first one to react.

Interestingly, the next one to move is Red. The bromance is real. That's one fast friendship there and I love these two as friends. Barret and Red can snark at each other for a whole game and I'll be happy. 

This is a great moment though because it shows that Red's already formed strong bonds with everyone, enough that he'll go to their aid without stopping to think. For an animal character which is hard to read, you can see very easily the pain, fear and panic in his eye.

If you're a meta!Aerith theoriser like me then this is actually too much emotion on her face for someone who barely knows Barret. She looks like she just lost someone very important to her. They met like an hour ago. I love the amount of emotion on her face here, she clearly cares about Barret a lot. That's an “please God oh no” look if ever I saw one. Makes me wanna tear up and no lie.

And Cloud. Who doesn't move because he's literally frozen in place with a wide eyed look of horror on his face. He's seen Sephiroth stab people before. Back in Nebelheim reactor and then in the VR where he had to watch him stab Tifa (ok not really, but the mental trauma is still the same). He's shutting down. SOLDIER!Cloud.exe has stopped working. Have you tried turning him off and on again?

Cloud's terrified of Sephiroth anyway – he literally whimpers during one ptsd attack – so to see him stab Barret? His friend? And he didn’t even see it coming? It's probably sent his entire mind to a point where he can't function. This is the stuff that breaks him.

Aside: How did Sephiroth pull that whole long ass sword out of Barret without moving away? Does he have slenderman arms on the sly?

This is interesting. Sephiroth looks at Cloud, who's still shell-shocked, but then it's like you can see him rebooting. That absolute fury and hatred he has for Sephiroth overrides most of his shock – or tries. You can see the SOLDIER part of him trying to assert control over his fear, but then it wavers and the shock and fear – likely from real!Cloud – take hold again, making his eyes wide and him look as helpless as he feels.

Sephiroth's goal is to always make Cloud feel helpless, out of control, useless to everyone. That way he can control Cloud and make him do whatever he wants. He's a master manipulator and Cloud with all his issues struggles to fight against that mental barrage. It’s something that never goes away for him. This is his lifetime struggle and it’s a metaphor for those who live with mental health issues. There’s no one final battle and it’s all rosy. It’s never ending and some days you win, some days it’s Sephiroth. The point is to fight.

So, then the whisper leaps into Barret to save him and Sephiroth turns into a piece of Jenova. Now we've got some action happening, Cloud shakes off his weakness and goes back into SOLDIER mode.

Conclusion

Cloud can't deal with emotions. Of any kind. He's emotionally stunted, but that doesn't mean he doesn't have emotions. It's the opposite. He feels things far too deeply and intensely and hasn't learned how to process them effectively in a way that doesn't damage himself. This is stuff you learn as you mature from a teenager to an adult. This is stuff Cloud's been denied by being a lab rat for 4 years. His body may be an adult, but part of him is still 16. He needs to experience life to help him mature and catch that emotional development up to the rest of him. (which is my way of saying he won't be like a 16yr old forever).

Cloud's real and genuine affection for his friend over-rid any kind of control he had over himself and made it impossible for him to move when he saw Barret stabbed. He's also lost too many people, which is partly why he has that SOLDIER persona protecting him. Sephiroth's taunting look made it clear this was to get at Cloud. It had very little to do with Barret. Cloud's anger broke through his shock, but that weakness reasserted itself quickly afterwards, keeping him from acting until Jenova Dreamweaver appeared and he finally had something for SOLDIER!Cloud to take care of.