#kotlc-anon

[myfairkatiecat]

Okay guys I was debating making a post about it but I’m just going to make a short one with just the root of the point

You’re allowed to criticize media you enjoy, especially the writing itself, but if there’s something about the content of the story being told that isn’t your thing, that’s not an objective issue with the author

If you’re reading KOTLC and you really dislike sokeefe, you can either keep reading for the other stuff in the story that you like, or you can stop reading because it really ruins it for you, but what you really shouldn’t do is act like Shannon’s done something wrong by writing sokeefe into the story she wants to tell, I mean that’s actually pretty disrespectful to the author. You don’t have to LIKE her story, but she’s not objectively doing something wrong just because it isn’t the choice you would have made

For example: if Shannon made sophitz canon that would definitely not be my thing. However I would keep reading kotlc for my enjoyment of the story she was telling. I would not come into tumblr and start picking out every issue with their relationship, calling it terribly unhealthy (unhealthy dynamics can be storytelling devices btw) and saying therefore Shannon has made an objectively wrong decision that ruins her own story. That would just be disrespectful, not just to other shippers but to Shannon herself!!

That’s all I’m gonna say unless someone miraculously misses the entire point of this post to a terrible degree

Have a great day

[the-way-astray]

The Keefe Sencen Infantilization Argument (because I've seen people say that saying he infantilizes Sophie is a bad-faith argument):

(Note: This post is a repost. I had my thoughts scattered out over a few posts, so I wanted to put them all together in one cohesive post. If you've already seen all the original posts, then aside from like two sentences being reworked and the format being better now, there's like nothing new here for you. Sorry.)

Examples of Keefe infantilizing Sophie and my explanations as to why this is infantilization and not okay:

Lodestar, chapter 4. What I originally said: “There you go, rocking the whole adorable-when-you’re-angry thing. I think that’s what I’ve missed about you the most.” Keefe infantilizes Sophie by saying she’s cute when she’s angry. She is trying to express her feelings, and all Keefe can do is be all Awwwwww. Isn’t that so cute? She’s angry! How adorable. It’s a form of invalidating someone’s feelings, by treating them like they’re just entertainment or by brushing them off like that. It’s some of the most manipulative behavior out there. It also saves Keefe from having to actually take Sophie’s feelings into account. His infantilization of her also shows up in his incessant need to protect her. It’s icky and gross, and authors should stop encouraging this behavior.

Sophie and Keefe are having a mental conversation and Keefe starts talking about Sophie's love triangle/square situation and Sophie doesn't want to talk about it. Not a fan of this, because Keefe butts into Sophie's personal business, then when she gets worked up, he heavily implies that he thinks it's cute. But this one isn't particularly bad compared to the others. Don't get me wrong, I still think this is infantilization, but the best I can say about it is it's not the worst example.

Lodestar, chapter 46. What I originally said: “You’re so cute when you worry, he told her.” More classic Keefe infantilization. He once again invalidates Sophie’s feelings by dumbing them down and acting like they’re this cute, quirky, inconsequential thing.

Sophie is obviously incredibly worried. Keefe clearly knows this. And his comment is to be like Yeah, but don't you know that makes you sooooo cute??? Like, sir.

Lodestar, chapter 65. What I originally said: “Is this going to be another one of those nights where you spend the whole time yelling at me to come home? Keefe asked, making her sit up straighter as his thoughts filled her head. Because as much as I love it when you get all feisty on me, now’s really not a good time.” God, Keefe is so subtly invalidating. He treats Sophie like she’s just his personal worry machine, not a person with valid concerns and ideas. The flippant way he talks about her worry for him makes me so mad. He takes her worry for granted and throws it back in her face, without a care for how it would affect her mental health. He brushes her off and invalidates her because he thinks he’s so much smarter than everyone else. Not to mention he calls her worry “feisty” and further infantilizes her feelings and ideas.

This one honestly stands alone. Context doesn't really do anything to it. The infantilization for all these quotes is in the quote itself, because it is invalidating to treat someone's outburst of negative emotions as entertainment. Keefe basically just says that he finds it cute when she insists he comes home because she's worried about him??? He's like, yeah, Sophie's worried about me, tearing up her mental health over me, but like. She gets feisty when that all becomes externalized and she begs me to come home! Again, it's just a way he's able to brush Sophie's feelings off and disregard her opinion entirely.

When I say Keefe acts like Sophie is his personal worry machine, I'm saying he acts like her worry only exists for his amusement. He doesn't see the deeper feelings behind that worry (or if he does, he certainly doesn't respect them), and only see it for what he sees it as: something cute and adorable.

Nightfall, chapter 24. What I originally said: “‘I know! Our little girl is growing up and getting so snarky!’ Keefe pretended to wipe his teary eyes. ‘I’ve never been so proud.’” “Our little girl” . . . that totally isn’t creepy or infantilizing at all. The way Keefe talks about Sophie here is genuinely so gross, even if it is a joke. 

This is a joke. 100%. But it's a joke that sat very poorly with me because of the way Keefe verbalizes this. The problem for me is in the quote itself, again, because I feel like saying these sorts of things constantly is just so weird.

Nightfall, chapter 32. Wouldn't say what I originally said adds anything new, so I'm just gonna move past that. The larger problem here is 100% the fact that Keefe is clearly trying to joke to deflect Sophie's anger away. My argument isn't about that. My argument is that saying that someone's anger is adorable is textbook infantilization. In context, Keefe uses it as a way to deflect or joke. But the simple act of saying that is a form of invalidation where Sophie's emotions are made out to be some silly, inconsequential thing.

Anyway, about this quote in particular. Sophie is obviously freaking out, and she is clearly and seriously trying to tell him that his joking behavior is unacceptable. Keefe responds, not by listening at all to what Sophie said or what she's feeling, but by instead saying this. This invalidates Sophie's very real feelings as well as saves Keefe from having to confront what Sophie's telling him. And yes, this is a product of his deflection, but my point here is that saying someone's anger or worry is adorable or cute when they are trying to be serious is textbook infantilization, because it treats that opinion they have as a silly, child-like tantrum. "Awwww, isn't that anger adorable???" is what you say about a tantrum-throwing toddler who just got their favorite toy taken away, not someone your age presenting a valid, serious opinion. My issue is with the statement "Your anger/worry is adorable/cute" itself, not how Keefe uses it to deflect. It also presents Keefe, subtle as it may be, as the only one with valid opinions on things because Sophie's adorable little feelings get in the way of her rationality.

And before you say Sophie calls him out on this, yes, but he doesn't change. I'm not going to talk about it at length here, but Keefe apologizes to Sophie in the Nightfall scene after his bed rest more out of a desire to make up with her than a desire to change his bad habits. You can see this because he continues to do it into Unlocked.

Nightfall, chapter 34. Again, I don't think what I originally said adds anything relevant, so I'll skip that here.

The famous scene. I do admit that Sophie calls Keefe out this time. However, as I've already said, this doesn't stick, so it hardly matter. Keefe continues with this behavior through the series and into Unlocked, where he doesn't necessarily say these things out loud, but you can see he still thinks them.

Nightfall, chapter 70. What I originally said: “‘Much as I’m enjoying this sudden overflow of adorable Foster-rage—it’s not worth it.’” Ah, more of Keefe infantilizing Sophie and invalidating her feelings. If someone finds your anger or worry “adorable” and acts like it’s this cute little quirk, then that’s never a good thing. Especially if they enjoy it. Someone who cares about you should never enjoy seeing you angry or worried.

Sophie's having a serious, key word here is serious, discussion (we'll call it a discussion, even though that's not particularly correct) with Cassius, and even though her rage isn't aimed at him this time, Keefe telling Sophie her rage is adorable when she's being serious is still dumbing down her emotions to that of a toddler throwing a tantrum, not a grown-up (at least relative to Keefe) having a very valid reason to be angry. Just because he agrees with her anger, doesn't mean he can't still infantilize her.

Flashback, chapter 1, page 12. I think what I said in my original post just about sums it up: “‘You’re so adorable when you worry. I’ve told you that, right?’” (12) Yes, you have, and saying it more doesn’t make it any less icky and gross and infantilizing. It’s like he’s dumbing Sophie down to this object who only exists to entertain him with her adowabuw wittle feewings, instead of a person with very real, very complex emotions.

Keefe fans the air, so we have physical evidence he knows exactly how worried Sophie is. And his response is to be like, so cute! So adorable! Once again, this is serious, and Keefe is acting like Sophie's worry exists only to amuse or entertain him. I don't know else to communicate that that isn't a good thing. Someone being worried usually means they have something they're worrying about, worry doesn't just manifest out of thin air for entertainment's sake. Sophie also responds poorly to his writing her off, with what and the glare and all.

(Side note: When I was looking for that quote, I found a quote where Fitz says the exact same thing, I'm talking word-for-word "adorable when you worry" stuff. Like I mentioned in my disclaimers, I'm not saying he's more right for this and I'm not letting him off the hook. It's icky when Keefe does it and it's icky when Fitz does it. But I'm solely focused on Keefe, which is why I'm not bringing that up. It's also worth it to note that Fitz doesn't say this over and over again, the way Keefe does.)

Flashback, chapter 17, page 304. I think I'm just going to copy-paste exactly what I said in my original post because it's exactly what I'm trying to say: “‘Hear that, Ro?’ he interrupted. ‘She’s giving me her serious voice.’” (304) Another example of Keefe infantilizing Sophie and dumbing her feelings down for the sake of a joke. Awwww, isn’t her serious voice so cute? She only does that when she thinks she has something important to say to us grown-ups! Awwwwwww. 

Apparently, people don't get why this is a bad thing, so: acting like someone isn't being serious when you can literally feel their emotions and know they're being serious just because you don't like what they're saying is not just invalidation, but infantilization, because you are dumbing their emotions and the complexities behind them down to that of a child attempting to be serious.

I'd also argue that this shows Keefe's true colors: he only really listens to her opinions and respects them when he agrees with them. Disagreeing with someone is all fine and good, but you can still respect the other person's opinion and not dumb it down and act like it's lesser than your own. If Keefe said "Sophie, I hear you, but I think you're wrong" (in Keefe jokester language, obviously, not word-for-word what I wrote) then I wouldn't call this infantilization, I'd call it respect. My problems arise from when Keefe acts like Sophie's opinions are stupid because Sophie is the one saying them with that adorable little pouty voice.

Flashback, chapter 21, page 355. What I originally said: “It’s always fun when you get feisty.” (355) I’ve said this about a gajillion times, but Keefe’s infantilization of Sophie is so horrific, it’s like he doesn’t care about her at all. He just sees her emotions as amusement for himself.

This is a sad scene, and Keefe has every right to be emotionally . . . off in this scene. But it still doesn't change the fact that he calls Sophie's anger "feistiness" and then says it's fun when she gets angry. You could say that's not exactly what he said, but it's likely that's what he meant given the past few quotes I've shown. Keefe has demonstrated a pattern of thinking Sophie's anger is amusing or adorable or fun. Anger is a negative emotion. When Sophie feels anger she doesn't feel good. And Keefe is like, yeah, but it's cute! Do you see how that's not the greatest thing to say? It says a lot about his internalized beliefs about Sophie, and is essentially confirmed by Unlocked. And even if that didn't represent the way he saw Sophie inside, that's still a really shitty thing to say because it still carries the invalidation.

Legacy, chapter 3, page 70. What I originally said: “‘Tell me why you have that cute little crease between your eyebrows.’” (70) You already know what I’m going to say. Keefe finding Sophie’s worry cute is textbook infantilization. But also, if he finds her worry and anger so adorable, what’s he gonna do when the Neverseen are defeated and Sophie doesn’t have as many things worrying her?

So, the crease between the eyebrows is obviously because of worry. So by saying he finds it cute, Keefe indirectly says he finds Sophie's worry cute, though I'm sure I don't have to spell that out because he's already flat out admitted he finds Sophie's worry cute several times. I'm going to sound like a broken record if I repeat what I've been saying this entire post about why this is infantilization, so instead I wanna talk about that last paragraph there. Keefe literally knows how queasy Sophie's worry can make her sometimes, and he has expressed this before, as well. So he knows exactly what Sophie's going through when she worries. And still, he acts like her worry is amusing, funny, cute, or otherwise a quirky little thing. I don't understand how Keefe can be so invalidating, having had firsthand experience with Sophie's emotions.

“But I was only half listening because she gets this cute little crinkle between her eyebrows when she’s trying to be serious, and it makes me want to reach up and smooth her forehead with my fingertip—and I’m betting she’d think I was super weird if I did that, since it’s not like she’s my . . . ” (Unlocked, very first paragraph of Keefe's diary entry, 481)

Don't have an e-book of Unlocked, unfortunately (boooooooo). So the context is that Keefe is giving us (or himself???) an intro to what he's doing here, which is writing about his drawings. He explains that Sophie gave him the idea and gives a general overview of what she said to convince him. Then he says this quote.

Here's what I said, which I stand by: I hate the way Keefe talks about Sophie. She’s just this soft, kind of ditzy, child-like sort of figure in his head. He admits that he doesn’t care what she has to say, he just cares about how adorable she looks while she says it. This is a textbook sign of a toxic relationship. You should care about what your partner/crush says, because that shows that you see them as a person, not as your personal cover model. Also “trying to be serious” paints Sophie as this impudent little child who’s trying to get the attention of the older, more experienced adults and it very much implies that Sophie is not serious, but awwww, look how cute she looks trying to be serious, isn’t it adorable? Except Keefe and Sophie are the same age. So this is another case of textbook infantilization.

Personally, I think I made it fairly clear why I think this is infantilization. Keefe did not listen to the latter half of what Sophie said because he was too busy imagining how adorable she must've looked as she said it. I don't know how to make it more clear that Keefe does not respect or care about Sophie's opinions. He did what she asked, sure, but he did not actually listen to her. Again, implying Sophie was not being serious when she was is infantilization. It takes away the weight of what Sophie is saying and makes it out to be a thing of like, Oh well, Sophie told me to, so I guess I'll humor her adorable little wishes and give it a shot, but let's get back to what's more important here, which is how cute she probably looks! I don't know how else to explain that that's not an attitude you want in someone who claims to listen to you and respect you.

Addressing some other things (Keefe calling Sophie herself cute [1], Keefe's deflection [2], Keefe praising Sophie's prowess [3], Sophie not seeming bothered [4], and The Real Problem [5]):

I don't think Keefe calling Sophie herself cute or adorable by itself is infantilization. That's just a cute, fluffy teenage crush. 100% cool with that. My problem is with Keefe dumbing Sophie's negative emotions that have complexities behind them down to something cute or inconsequential by calling them adorable. There's a quote in the diary entries where Keefe describes Sophie's blush as adorable and proceeds to describe it in vivid detail. I don't like it for personal taste reasons, but I would never argue that this is infantilization. Because. It's not. There is no dumbing down of emotions here, no shrugging off experience or maturity. There's just a kid with a crush.

As for Keefe's habit of deflecting stuff through jokes, yes, it's a flaw and yes, some of the times Keefe infantilizes Sophie, he's using it as a joke to deflect. Yes, that's the larger issue. But the point still stands that the way in which he thinks of Sophie's worry and anger is infantilization.

There are moments where Keefe talks nonstop (sometimes in a very unnatural way, in my opinion) about how powerful and amazing and brilliant and talented and spectacular Sophie is and how he respects her choices and whatnot. I don't see this as particularly contradictory to his infantilization. Keefe can dumb Sophie's emotions down to cute, inconsequential little playthings while also insisting that he thinks she's amazing and powerful. I do think he does think that she's incredibly talented, but he also invalidates or disrespects her choices because he sees her emotions as adorable and unserious. Sophie is objectively powerful and talented and smart, I'm not really sure how saying those clear facts out loud changes the fact that Keefe still sees Sophie as very juvenile in his head. He can respect her prowess and capacity for talent while still disrespecting her opinions and emotions. The two can coexist. This is why I say Keefe pedestalizes and infantilizes Sophie simultaneously.

As for saying this doesn't bother Sophie (except in that one instance where she glares at him), I'd hardly say it matters. People can be the object of toxic behavior without realizing it. Sophie doesn't really seem to care past a handful of seconds when Keefe reads her emotions without her permission (on purpose, with intention), but I think most of us would agree that that doesn't make it acceptable. And Keefe's infantile views of Sophie say more about him than they do Sophie, which is the argument I'm trying to make. My point is that Keefe sees Sophie's emotions as inconsequential little things that don't need to be taken into account. This is all mapped into how he sees her internally. Again, just because Sophie doesn't seem bothered by Keefe's comments, doesn't mean they're acceptable, especially considering it gives us a view into the way he truly sees Sophie. And if Keefe thinks of Sophie is such an invalidating way, how are we supposed to believe he'll respect her when she argues with him, instead of just writing it off as "that adorable rage"?

And last but not least (as this is literally the reason people are annoyed with Keefe, regardless of what flaw you're talking about): the infantilization isn't the problem. Not really. What the problem is is that it is never called out by the narrative and when it is, it lasts two seconds, doesn't stick, and Keefe continues with it having not learned a thing. He doesn't change, and I can give you a thousand explanations for why Keefe may be so prone to infantilizing Sophie based on his childhood, trauma, and everything else, but none of that is an excuse. And I'm certainly not a fan of the way we're constantly told that Keefe respects Sophie when he's clearly so ready to undermine her emotions or dumb them down. If you're going to have him say things like this, it should be understandable that it's not a good thing.

I think it all comes down to this: Imagine you were trying to get a very serious point across to someone or otherwise feeling very emotional over something and then you look over and the other person's reaction is like, Aw, you're so cute when you're all worked up trying to be serious! Anger so adorable! Worry so cute! I love it when you get feisty! Wouldn't you feel like they don't respect what you're saying? Is that not incredibly icky and weird?

Here is the definition of infantilization. I think it's very difficult to make an argument that Keefe is not doing this to Sophie. And if you think that's bad, oh boy, is it so. Much. Worse. In the actual Unlocked novella. It's very difficult to deny that Keefe only sees Sophie as an adorable little cute thing that amuses him when you read it. But I'll get there . . .

Anyway I'm leaving it off with this because these are the vibes I get from Keefe every time he makes an infantilizing comment about Sophie (minus the yelling, Keefe doesn't really yell):

[camelspit]

Roisin's Reading Rumble 2024

The RRR will officially be coming back!! Signups will most likely start on SEP 16.

If you want to be tagged in the official signup post, tell me either in the comments or tags on this post. IF YOU SEND ME AN ASK OR MESSAGE ME ABOUT IT, I WILL NOT REMEMBER TO TAG YOU!!!

This year, unfortunately, I don't have the time to grade a bunch of stuff so! It's going to be just one big project this year, with 1-2 months to complete! Im currently considering 2 options.

More info on each below the cut!

Note: For both of these, only one person can do each. So if someone were to take Tiergan or Sophie/Marella, that would be off the table (during the sign up period, you can do a top 5 characters/dynamics.)

Characters:

Main characters (Sophie, Fitz, Dex, Keefe, Biana, Linh, Tam, and Marella) would be off the table, just to sort of. diversify the characters picked and make people branch out more.

We did this last year!! It would most likely be pretty much the same thing. If you tag search Roisins Reading Rumble, you can probably find some pretty good examples!!

Dynamics:

These can be romantic/platonic/familial, etc. Anything you want!! It can be however many characters you want as well, but I don't recommend more than 3.

These relationships can either be textual (like sophie and keefe) or just something interesting that you'd like to see in the books (like wylie and keefe)!

Additional information about rules and submissions will be released after the poll is concluded.

[floofeeeeee]

Can you pretty please draw Dex with a mullet? :)

I do not know how to draw Dex who the HELL IS THATTT LMAOAO

I tried my best 😔💔

[permanently-stressed]

dex could def pull off eyeliner

He could pull off a sack of potatoes. We're better off listing things he couldn't pull off

[swans-chirping-in-the-distance]

YOU have a very interesting take on sokeefe. you don't just love every part of it- please elaborate, your tags on anti sokeefe posts are FASCINATING

THIS TOOK FOREVED IM SORRY ILYSM FOR THIS AHDJDLFKWNKDJF

I think one majorly important thing about sokeefe is that precious bond they have with each other. In fact, that's what makes me love the ship so much. It's truly stunning to see such a natural love built on years of trust and support. They clearly display so many different ways of loving, whether it be emotional, physical, mental, or verbal. The way that Shannon captured them is something I'm not sure I've seen anyone else do the same way.

Sophie ignores her feelings for Keefe for the majority of the series and writes it off due to insecurity. And Keefe knew that. Yet, instead of just telling her how she felt, he decided to let her decide how to act. To not rush her or pressure her. To let her make her own decision. He held himself back and let her be with his best friend without telling her, which many adults couldn't bring themselves to do. But he did it for HER. Because he loved her, whether he said it or not. How terrifying must it have been for Keefe to be so vulnerable as to fall for someone when that had made him hurt so much in the past? How terrifying must it have been for SOPHIE, who'd not let herself realize she fell until she was far too gone to come back from this unscathed?

The two are often very physical with each other, from the constant support of holding one another's hand to the gripping hugs late at night when their sobs are louder than their family's disappointment. Not only do they show how they feel about each other with touch, but also with general body language. The comfort of Keefe turning her head gently to look at him. The way they relax around each other, their facial expressions and their hands involuntarily grabbing the other's without a moment's notice. The display of casualty hidden within the deep depths of their relationship. They even manage to think about each other with the same sort of intensity, the determination to keep the other alive and the sheer desperation not to lose the other. They're reliant on each other's safety, not because their lives would be in danger without them, but because a huge part of their happiness would.

The two often joke around with each other, but they know when to stop. They know when it's time to get serious, to remind the other of how high they think of them and how much they care for them. How they'll always be at each other's side. Their words say "I love you" for them. And while they're in terribly traumatic situations and had such different backgrounds, they're the only ones who understand each other. They're absolute foils who were born to be enemies and fell for each other anyway. Their relationship is a beautiful one, but it's also one that's extremely fragile.

Sokeefe's relationship could go wrong in many ways. There are multiple paths towards a toxic relationship that would be really easy for their canon characters to fall into. For example, while for now they help each other stay brave and empathetic, their vulnerability towards each other makes them more prone to toxicity. They're both known for being reckless. How easy would it be to accidentally get the other to do something terrible? Would killing a random Neverseen member be self-defense? Would that really help anyone in the long run? They're traumatized kids forced to lead, like a malfunctioning toy released before it was fixed. They have no idea what they're doing if you really think about it. Who are they to advise the other?

Another issue I've noticed is one that's super minimal now but could become a huge issue. Sophie, being a relatable teen girl, likes apologies for things that hurt her, even if she knows it's technically not the other person's fault. She's not going around asking for apologies that aren't warranted, but she's accepting them. And that usually doesn't matter much, but it does with someone like KEEFE. Keefe, who blames himself for things that aren't his fault because it's all he knows. He feels so guilty for his and his family's existence that he takes it out on himself. And that could turn into a problem. Because a boy who apologizes for everything he didn't do doesn't fit well with a girl who accepts them. Sophie would never want Keefe to blame himself for things more, but she could inadvertently cause it with ease.

On top of all of that, they often struggle with looking at each other realistically and being truly reliable about the other. Keefe doesn't think Sophie's perfect; don't get me wrong. Part of the appeal of Keefe is that he sees her flaws and still loves her through them. But he also doesn't do much to help her fix said flaws. Perhaps it's out of his own insecurity in thinking he has no place to judge others because he believes he's worse, but my point stands nonetheless. And Sophie often forgives too easily, which lowers her own standards while also making sure Keefe can't grow from his mistakes because no one's acknowledging them. They seem to move too fast at times, and slowing down could really help. Get therapy and learn to bite the bad habits in the ass, in a way.

Another interesting aspect of their relationship are the parallels of their own to others. A loyal girl desperate to believe the man she loves is good, even when he keeps doing wrong? A girl who doesn't realize there's a difference between good and right until it's far too late? I think we all saw the ruedacted/ Lodestar sokeefe parallels. And if you took any koralie interaction and changed the names out? Sokeefe moment. It's just so easy for them to end tragically, but they're so desperate for it to work out. They're walking on the most delicate of ice for a chance that they can meet in the middle. They're running across a tightrope, hoping they don't fall to the ground. They're pulling at the web in hopes that they don't get stuck in its fabric, but they ALWAYS do. Sokeefe is a beautiful relationship built on trust and love, but trust and love don't always mean something is good for you. Their entire existence is truly a bittersweet delicacy only to be enjoyed by the most careful of takers.

[imobsessed123]

You ever think about this one specific character trope where this teen is a golden boy who constantly has to live up to the crazy expectations of the world around him who eventually breaks under pressure and snaps.

All the time anon. All the time.

[kris-sona]

…transfemme linh 🤭? (I just saw your post)

-solinh anon (not related but whatever)

trans song twins 5ever look @sunflowers-and-scales people agree

sorry tam also infested my brain a bit with this one too anyways it’s just regular linh but now she takes estrogen potions from her brother’s boyfriend???? and her parents hate her and her brother even more probably

[anonymous-kotlc-thoughts]

look, when it comes to sokeefe, you can't criticize it, okay? even if you really like LITERALLY EVERYTHING ELSE IN THE SERIES, if you don't like sokeefe, you just gotta be quiet. And put the book down, man. It's Sophie's story, why you always gotta hate on her happiness?? She's happy with Keefe! You just gotta accept that; she's happy with Keefe, why are you such a meanie?

You can't criticize Keefe, either, or his obsession love for Sophie and how he idealizes and infantilizes the crap out of her- it's super sweet and healthy, and it makes them happy, so if you don't like it just put the book down!

emotional cheating's cute, but don't worry! no one was right in that situation btw but it was super sweet and healthy for Keefe! Forget that 'if they cheat with you, they'll cheat on you' thing! It only happened because they (you know, teenagers) were in love! And Sophie didn't even know it! How sweet is that?!

People can be allowed to criticize a part of a work and still like that work

.

[cavennmalore]

tagging @myfairkatiecat because it is only fair after you requested this word vomit lol

The thing about Keefe not being a good person is a little complicated. Full disclaimer, I don’t really believe in the whole good/bad person dichotomy, and definitely not for KIDS. Nevertheless, I don’t disagree with the people who say that Keefe isn’t the awesome person Sophie’s (biased) opinion makes him out to be. Not for the manipulative reasons -- which, Keefe is a teenage boy and I don't know about anyone else but that is like THE demographic for being a little messy in relationships lmao -- but for a lot of his planning. Joining the Neverseen without telling anyone what his plan was? Proposing himself as Mercadir without giving anyone a chance to refute him? Lying at the end of Legacy and showing up to the confrontation even though it was explicitly agreed he'd stay back? Basically, everything he did in Lodestar? Not great.

It's not Certified Good Guy Behavior. But that's his role. Keefe was literally designed to occupy this grey, questionable space, both in the narrative and outside of it. He's Sophie's character foil. Lady Gisela's plan revolves around pushing Keefe to become a worse and worse person; that involves raising him in a way that cultivates bad behavior and forcing him into increasingly extreme situations that are designed to make Keefe "ready" when the time comes. That is a huge part of the plots of Nightfall and Legacy.

Admittedly, I don't think Shannon has made him evil/grey enough, which I know isn't a popular take. There was real potential to make Keefe a wild card in Lodestar and make it so that the question isn't what stupid scheme is he planning? but to what extent have Lady Gisela's machinations worked? It's an interesting plotline to me. It's why I'm so excited for Unraveled; it's a chance to see this push-pull in action without Keefe's "north star" (AKA Sophie) guiding his decisions.

But a lot of people don't feel this way. A ton of the complaints I see around the book have to do with Keefe getting too much page time, the plotline taking up too much space in the story, etc. Which is fair! If you don't like Keefe, I'm sure a lot of this is grueling. However, a point I see connected to this line of thought is a wish for the books to return to a more ensemble vibe. That there should be more Dex, more Biana, more Stina, more Tam, etc. the way that it used to be.

That version of the books, though? It only really exists in the first book. Keefe is a prominent character in Exile and a huge driver of its plot. It's only in Book One where he only exists on the margins and isn't super involved. The ensemble cast has grown exponentially since then, to the point where there are frankly too many characters to keep track of in a scene without straight-up listing them all (which did happen but I'm forgetting which book). The decreased page time of supporting characters isn't solely because Keefe is eating the narrative, but because there are way too many characters for everyone to get a subplot; rather than have pre-existing characters solve issues, Shannon tends to just pull new ones in, and then leave them to hang out for the following books. If the series was for a more adult audience, I would say that it was time to start killing people off (like the popular critique of The Boys) but because this is a kids series, they're going to just hang around and not do much.

A lot of the nostalgia for this old version of KOTLC presents itself in fandom discussions of Dex. Full transparency: I didn't really like Dex that much in the early books when I did my reread. I found him unbearably rude to Fitz and Biana. His crush on Sophie felt invasive at times as if she was catering to a boy that was projecting his feelings and making her accommodate him. It's very similar stuff to the current criticism of Keefe! But I have yet to see any discussions around Dex that don't characterize him as kind, goofy, or sweet. Maybe there is some discussion of him being snarky or sarcastic. The most criticism I've seen of him is about how he treated Stina in his introduction, which was taken largely in isolation.

But that sweet, goofy version of Dex that people talk about missing? He doesn't exist. Sure, Dex mellowed out a ton in the later books, but he didn't become a whole new character. And I don't believe that he disappeared from the books in the way that some people claim. He just... doesn't have a subplot anymore. His crush on Sophie was resolved. It was a sticking point in his and Sophie's friendship which made him part of her character arc, and that arc is done. If that went on for any longer, it would be a drag on the pace of the series. Like I said before, the presence of so many side characters, each with their own needs and motivations, makes it difficult to introduce him into new stuff. It's why he gets so much more page time in Unlocked. With the presence of so many other characters, Shannon tends to handwave a lot of the background group dynamics. Dex ended up becoming close to Keefe and was able to shine there, away from Sophie's perspective and their finished arc.

All of this is to say, it's not wrong to dislike Keefe or like Dex. But I think a lot of the conversations surrounding these guys can get muddled in nostalgia and what people think the books should be rather than what they are. I'm (severely) guilty of it too. It's part of a broader trend in fandoms as "fandom" as a concept becomes more popular. That is a whole other post, though, and frankly, this one is long enough lol

[kale-of-the-forbidden-cities]

can you draw Fintan

yes I can!!! I was reading stellarlune so here are a few things from that

something's missing . . .

and then silly doodle ft. marella

[myfairkatiecat]

I didn't realize people viewed you as a kotlc celebrity

ME NEITHER

Trust me anon. Nobody is more surprised by that sentiment than me

I literally just stopped lurking and started actually posting four months ago I can’t be a keepblr celebrity!!

[the-way-astray]

fitz vacker :)

[lumieumie]

I accidentally deleted the ask but I have officially been asked if I am @myfairkatiecat. My initiation to the fandom is complete

[ahoyimlosingmymind]

Bc I figure there are dissenting opinions...

Feel free to openly be a hater in the reblogs and comments. I won't freak out on you, I promise! <3

[chronically-ill-psionipath]

How wonderful… my boyfriend and his little brother fighting again 😭

@fitz-avery-vacker @alvar-not-vacker