#just my opinion !!! no hate to any of the ccs - again its just my personal biases !!

[teapot-of-tyrahn]

wild life winner tierlist ,, !!

[im-out-of-it]

RANT ABOUT SHOW MALEC AND THOMASTAIR AND IT IS LONG AND IM NOT TRYING TO BE HATEFUL BUT ITS THINGS IVE NOTICED OF A PATTERN AND MY BEEF IS MORE WITH CC BEAUSE SHE RUINS EVERYTHING WITH HER OBSESSION WITH HERONDALES AND PUTTING MY FAVS IN THR BACKSEAT

I still have a bunch of TLH content to go through and make stupid opinions about but while I was watching another show, I keep noticing a pattern of when it comes to lgbtq+ couples, that one of the couples is barely their own person like even their intimate scenes don’t get as much attention as to an heterosexual couple. and it made me think of Alastair and Thomas. especially since CC can’t write, Alastair does not get any moments that are just about him. and I notice this happening in the show for Magnus. y’all know I love show Malec and I love the show (for anyone besides CLACE) but why is it that

1. lgbtq+ couples rarely have intimate scenes?

and

2. why is being gay their whole identity?

it makes me absolutely furious that Alastair has literally one fucking pov and it barely covers his rage and his feelings about his deadbeat father. Alastair lost his fucking childhood having to take care of his father and make sure Cordelia has a good life and there’s no mention or appropriation for Alastair pov?

we already know that CC doesn’t care about her POC characters and relationships but it’s just as bad when they’re part of the lgbtq+ community. even Thomas’s stuff gets taken over by James and Cordelia. the whole James and Cordelia shit takes center stage so does matthews addiction, Thomas losing so much in one year, Alastair doesn’t get to process anything, Lucie and Cordelia’s friendship is rushed and they shouldn’t be parabatai, Ari and Anna are also super rushed and it seems they don’t actually communicate their issues- and Grace (who I cannot stand) doesn’t actually process her trauma. nor does Jesse. literally nobody gets to process anything because it has to be the Cordelia and James show. Matthew is made to apologize for feelings he may have had (I just don’t buy their connection) for Cordelia so James can have the girl. I don’t have that much hate for James as compared to jace and Will but that is a terrible fucking parabatai move.

why are all parabatai have one set who goes above and beyond while the other just settles? and worst of all, Kit doesn’t get grieved because once again!!!!!!! guess who has to be center stage? JAMES OBVIOUSLY

and what makes me mad about show Malec is that Magnus doesn’t have many friends after he gets with Alec. he’s hardly with his warlocks and spends most of the time saving jace because he knows what it means to Alec. before Malec get together, Alec is more snarky and calls out people (and he still does after.) while Magnus seems to express himself more in makeup, outfits, and he’s made his warlocks more of a focus. and then once he gets with Alec, the makeup is heavily changed, he spends more of his time helping shadowhunters until the season two finale. where the fuck is Catarina? she’s hardly there for the rest of the two seasons. he’s lost ragnor already but where are his warlock friends? why can’t Alec continue to be sassy and call out people more? why does he let jace use him?

and this has nothing to do with how Matt and Harry portrayed Alec and Magnus. I love them both and they did so much for Malec that we didn’t get in the books and I’m sure this was on the writing side. I’m sure they wanted to keep it as much as the book lore they possibly could but does this make anyone else mad? why do heterosexual couples get to have full on sex scenes but Malec can hardly kiss without 30 seconds????? why can’t Magnus’s feelings about reliving his trauma he more than an episode or however long it was? why does Alec have to pay for so much in the series? why can James and Cordelia have pages and pages of sex scenes (as well as CLACE in the books) but Alastair and Thomas get one page of it while everyone has to listen in to book malec and their arguing.

and my whole problem is with CC. she’s a terrible writer but I also feel that the show could’ve done more with the Malec buildup and actually focusing on Magnus and Alec as characters. Magnus isn’t just Alec’s boyfriend but he’s 800+ warlock who has trauma, who is kind, patient, friendly, who does everything he can for the downworld because that’s his children and family. Alec isn’t just Magnus’s boyfriend but someone who has been pushed around so many times, has toxic friends, who hasn’t felt like himself basically all his life.

I don’t know why I made this rant but I hate seeing my fav lgbtq+ treated badly at times or seeing how heterosexual couples get more page/screen time and get to do whatever while all the problems go to the lgbtq+ characters. and maybe some won’t agree with me and I’m not being hateful about it all. I’m happy with what we got with thomastair and Malec but TLH could’ve been so much better in Alastair’s pov and if the show focused more on Malec and less on CLACE

and I will always be so appreciative of the show for what they did for Malec like y’all have no idea how much I love show Malec and everything we got but so much was left out, ya know? and thomastair was great but Alastair gets left behind and Thomas kind of goes through an Alec thing where James issues become more important than his own. Thomas was arrested and the pov was in James. I’m also just tired of the “I’m angry because I’m gay and that’s my whole thing” or “I’m his boyfriend and that’s all I am identity” or “the heterosexual couple gets more time because we deem them more important than the gays” OR “let the gays have all the issues to prove they can get through anything” not all of these examples pertain to what I’m talking about but these tropes are just as bad as the bury your gays. I want more.

Thomas loses Christopher who is more of a parabatai to him, his sister, almost loses Alexander, plus Alastair all within a year

Alec has to deal with an arranged marriage, the person who is supposed to have his back is betraying him, all the “feelings” he may have had with Jace, the treatment he got from Maryse and Robert, the lying, his brother almost dying, almost losing Izzy, dying almost five times total, losing Magnus twice, all the lies he got from his family and friends, seeing Magnus go through his trauma and feeling at fault all within a year

Alastair has to deal with not having a childhood, losing deadbeat father, his mother having a new baby, feelings for Thomas but not feeling good enough, not able to process any of these emotions, and getting mistreated from Cordelia all within a year

Magnus has to deal with centuries of pain, not having two fathers and a mother because two of them deemed him a monster while the other attempted to show Magnus how powerful he is, watching Alec almost die many times, having to relive his trauma, being hunted by Valentine, downworlders dying and he couldn’t do anything, losing his home, his magic, and then Alec TWICE all within a year

these men go through so much and for fucking what? LEAVE THEM BE

I don’t know, rant over I guess

[pommunist]

Oh Pommunist,, we’re really in it now. I don’t think I’ve ever directly spoken to you, but I greatly appreciate so much of your input. However, I can already tell this latest Union statement might cause some tension within the fandom because of its wording and the ways it can be interpreted. It just fails to be direct enough in my opinion😞

Something about the wording of saying creators with “varying degrees of intent” have encouraged harassment and then directly calling for them to make public apologies has rubbed so many of us the wrong way.

In a statement like this, it feels inherently accusatory because that is the tone the Union has established. Implying intent when the reality is that fans are just acting outside of the control AND wishes of the creators feels uncharitable.

They fully could have said something along the lines of “even though there is no evidence that you’ve done this with any intent, condemning people who seek to harass the ex-admins would be beneficial because of your large platforms” and a soul couldn’t contest that.

- Sharp!

To me the part about the Ccs is just a call for them to be careful about the things they say as it can be (and it sure was !) used by their audiences as an excuse to spread more hate.

At the end of the day, while I can understand everyone’s varying opinions on this point, I just wish it wasn’t what the discussion was focused around.

Because the statement said once again that admins had not been contacted, and that there was a lack of transparency regarding the people who were in charge (like the identity of the person who made them sign unlawful NDAs being very opaque) and I wish this is what people would speak about.

[back-on-my-bucky-bs]

nah nah i think you're onto something. like when a creep gets actually exposed most of the defenders (if there are any, depends on the severity of what was exposed) end up male who think its not a big deal while female friends often see the red flags and call them the fuck out we seen this happen before so many times. so idk about anyone else but the fact dream is surrounded by female friends on all sides and they trust him? to the point of partying with him and visiting his house? that's fucking huge and a giant green flag. also i just think most of the male cc's that left and burnt bridges did it because they were big mad that dream no longer gave them clout that they felt they were owed and decided to farm clout by themselves using dream's name without his consent 🤷‍♀️ now that is a red flag and a dick move from everyone else but dream

ngl I worried I said to much with my observations but I'm also glad someone else is picking up on them

I know I'm speaking in absolutes and I know I'm an outsider looking in, and I also know women are capable of being predators, but I mean come on? you'd think if these allegations were at all true, Hannah, Slyvee, Bella Poarch, (the girl from the Everest music video I have no clue her name) would stay far away from him. They wouldn't be in the mv nor would stay the night at his house. But the men? The men who claim to say they side with survivors every time someone in the influencing world is "exposed"? Those guys drop him and say the meanest cruelest shit about him? The fuck is the logic?

Again I'm so bad at conveying this in a way that makes sense, but like I said there's something sus going on.

Additionally the clout chasing, yeah I get that we're farther removed from the "drituation" (thank the gods) so this wave of hate (tommy specifically) is so out of the blue imo? I get Tommy's an adult and is capable of his own opinions but the change is so sudden and drastic, it's like someone else is influencing him to switch sides. I worry about Tubbo and Tina doing the same now that they're on the asshole smp. It's getting them streams/views and it is the only non-human dranti that exists imo because of who it was made by and the people who watch it. Like I already have an issue with BBH being on the server out of principle.

Idk where I was going with this last bit ngl. But either way I just hate so much the hate Dream gets. It's undeserved and yet so many people find fame in hating him, getting streams/views when they shouldn't.

slightly off topic but I have a point; anyway I recently saw a TikTok illustrating how "now" everyone loves Taylor Swift and those of us who loved her back in 2013/2014 when all the shit was going down online deserve a badge saying "I was never the asshole and have loved her the entire time" and I can see, 3-5 years down the line a similar video being made about Dream. Cause those of us here, now, who love him and have loved him since the start (or just whenever you joined the fandom) are fucking wonderful human beings and those who hate him deserve all the karma and those who will hopefully change their minds better own up to being shitty to him because it's so wrong and I just can't understand how/why so much hate exists for one person.

[kariachi]

Oh look, responses to shit. Think some fans still follow me so, just in case, under a cut.

#YES. YES. YES. YES. YES.#FUCK. GOD YES. ALL OF THIS.#sometimes i feel fucking insane - like IM the insane one for saying i think theyre an awful ship#bc MOST OF THE FANDOM loves them to pieces and every time i try to say 'hey this is fucked right?' they come at me with torches and pitchfo#and there was a part that you didnt even mention - gwen blamed kevin for that time he was groomed by charmcaster!!! fuck!!!!#ben 10#but gwen is always right and never has to learn her lesson in the show bc theres no lesson to learn bc shes always right!!!#*eye twitching!* always! every feeling shes had is proven correct and she has never done anything wrong!#even the horrible fucked up shit shes done has just been funny you guys! its not her fault! shes just a silly guy!#she is always right! always right and never faces any consequences whatsoever! always!#wrt to storing cc in the bag - ive always viewed it as her sort of comparing herself to ben (and his friendship with kevin)#because kevin is in a lot of ways the golden reformed prisoner - ben gave him a chance and it has been rewarded time and again#kevin is a good guy with a bad past under bad situations but by continually believing in and trusting him it has always worked out#and gwen... wants that. she is always comparing herself to ben#we see it in os when she wants praise for her heroics. we see it in uaf when she wants the same#we see it in ov when ben goes to her campus for one single day and the attention is him!!!#she wants what ben has. and ben has a reformed prisoner bestie who was worth giving a chance to. and gwen doesnt have any other prisoner#baddies to give a chance to so congrats cc! youve been chosen! against your will! even though you are pretty much irredeemable!!!#gwen will put people in danger if she has even a chance of getting a slice of the pie#but of course thats just my interpretation lol (via @expired-blueberries)

Trust me I have been there with this fandom so many times, there's fuckers in here who would watch her shoot Kev dead for not putting the seat down and immediately start with how that's actually the worst thing a guy can possibly do, then turn around and give you shit for writing a scene where she gets a prank pulled on her because it just proves you hate women.

And yeah, there's, there's more shit with them, this was just a ramble I needed to get out of my head so shit like the mess with her opinions on Kevin's history with Charmcaster (she stored the woman in his apartment, I would leave a bitch for suggesting it-) or the mess that is their pre-relationship didn't end up making it in. They have their own posts scattered around.

I would not be surprised if all the shit you mentioned played a role in her shit with Charmcaster, and really even that again ties into the issues with actual respect for people she has. Because Kevin's reformation isn't something Ben did- it's something he started on him own, went for on his own (Kwarrel extended a hand, but Kevin was the one who chose to take it this time), and working with the Tennysons gave him the space and stability to go further with it. Charmcaster, on the other hand, has had chances to say 'I want to be better than this'- is a grown woman who has had these chances- and has only doubled down. She doesn't try to be better, she doesn't improve.

To compare them is really in some ways to compare apples and oranges- two people with bad histories, one of whom chose to be strive for better and the other keeps choosing to stay on their path. But, if you're just looking at it as 'well they're both criminals with sad backstories' and completely disregard how things like personal choice enter into it- which, again, her big plan for helping Charmcaster was to keep her captive in isolation with no due process of law for however long it took, personal choice is not exactly a factor she seemed to be considering- well then they're so so alike. Surely this is the same thing. No, it doesn't matter that they're very different people with very different circumstances who did very different things and feel very different ways about them. No, it doesn't matter what their thoughts and feelings are, what their boundaries are, because she knows best. She knows what they want, she knows what they need, even if they claim something else.

It'd be a fascinating character flaw to see her grow out of, but that would require admitting it's a flaw in the first place.

Have not-really-Gwen-or-Gwevn-positive thoughts in the head and want to get them down. Going under a readmore because I know fans follow me and y’all don’t want this shit.

Keep reading

[viscountessevie]

CC Related Asks Compliation

I have been stressing over answering these perfectly so as not to ruffle any feathers but honestly there is no perfect way to answer it because it will set either side off any way I go about it. So Imma just lay it all on the line here and let these asks have a convo with each other. 

These asks defending CC have been sitting in my ask box a long time because they came in droves and some deleted now were very hateful towards me and it just turned me off her and her fans even more. That being said, I have rectified my previous statement saying that she fundamentally misunderstood Edwina when I meant Bookwina - I guess she understood Showina who I personally don’t understand at all and dislike from Ep 4 to 7 so whatever who cares about my opinion. 

I was going to link the post that started it all but unfortunately because these were sent a while ago, I couldn’t find it. For context: I reblogged a post/discussion ask that talked critically about Edwina and CC and in the tags I agreed with it and then because at the time I had been frustrated with how CC had seemed to be blindly agreeing with CVD’s takes on Edwina’s character - not attending the wedding and their relationship not being the same again (which I agree it will be different but it’s implied it will never be properly fixed when I want the girls to come out of it stronger??) and so I said something along the lines of “CC fundamentally doesn’t understand Edwina” 

This ask below is a follow up to one of the above asks but I’m not sure whose (feel free to clarify in another ask!) and was a reply to the tags in this post: 

[I should worded it better but I didn’t mean you guys were being annoying its just the insane amount of hate and critical asks that came at me the moment I said a throwaway line in the tags of a Eddie post - and it was so insignificant I can’t even find the post in my archive anymore sigh - that I didn’t even think twice about.]

Also I did reply in a sense and I don’t even have the energy to defend myself so this is what I’m sticking to. 

All this to say, now I do understand where the two of you are coming from and I should have worded that better. I definitely disagree with CC’s Bridgerton takes and would like to never hear them again. I do adore her this is just one aspect of her I would like to ignore moving forward and just be hyped for her future projects. I wasn’t even insulting her or her intelligence and what I meant was she doesn’t understand Bookwina not like I do because I actually read the book and she has confessed to not reading/finishing the book and prefers her interpretation of the character. So you do you girl I don’t have to agree with it. 

I will agree that sometimes there are mutuals and posts that use really combative language towards Edwina and sometimes CC that does help fuel the racist hate in the fandom and gives leeway to racists to criticise Edwina and CC in a racially charged manner. However, I don’t think my comment was that extreme so to have all of you in my asks (there was more than these three that were just really hateful and I deleted cos I didn’t want to deal with that shit) just drained me and ngl I know you aren’t trying to be mean or annoying but some of yall (not saying these asks in particular but CC defenders who treat her like a complete saint) can be really condescending. Just something to think about. 

All this being said, thank you for sending in these asks I do appreciate your POVs. 

Now onto the other side of the argument. So I appreciate this anon for laying it all out in a thorough manner while not using names against CC, I got a similar ask that was basically a TDLR but I’m deleting it as it called CC mean names and I do not condone that on this blog. Yes I may disagree with CC’s Bridgerton Takes but I will not stand for calling her names or being mean. We will not give the racists of the fandom ammunition to attack her even more. 

Honestly my TDLR take is that the way the whole of S2′s press tour was weird as hell. I know they were trying to sell the love triangle but the trio interview felt third-wheeling at times and that’s not any of the three’s fault. Jimone just happened to be closer and I got the vibe that CC and Simone while friends and friendly, aren’t as close to each other as they are with Jonny (Simone and Chari seperately), Golda and NC (Chari). 

Everything you stated was certainly odd but I’ve been avoiding trying to comment on them on here because I don’t really want to add to the scrutiny of watching a WoC’s every move waiting for them to be ‘out of line’ in the GA’s opinions. I think CC’s entitled to act however she wants she’s the one in the role after all but I also think as fans we are allowed our opinions and to be able to disagree with Chari’s takes (and mostly CVD and the writers’ because its their fault the show and characters of S2 ended up like this). I’m only posting these because my blog is a safe space for our little Kathony/S2 bubble and I do appreciate all of your thoughts as long as you’re being respectful when you send them. 

Last and my latest one from Jett 🖤 my beloved, good morning and thank you for your ask: 

I do not want to rehash Postergate 2.0 so everything that needs to be said is here. But also again: Tessa Dare stop embarrassing yourself challenge!! You’re an author with a public platform for Christ sake stop acting like an unhinged stan on main and get an anon account or something Jesus. 

Anyways this is my last discussion post on CC, if I do post anything about her it will most likely be Edwina gifsets or CC’s pictures (actually there is one more about Dior but it’s not a discourse ask so I’ll post it separately!). 

I genuinely do not want anymore Charithra discourse on my blog simply because I do not want to contribute to being over critical or seem like I’m encouraging the hate because this blog is a safe space for all Desi fans of the show, I want to uplift all the brown women on the show Edwina and CC included and honestly I do not have the energy to answer them meaningfully without stressing out. And what’s the point of engaging if I don’t enjoy it you know?

[All future asks about her will be deleted but if you really need to get it out, do come off anon so I can reply privately or my DMs are always open, please don’t be shy to come in and have a conversation.]

[jjkyaoi]

I am getting so tired of how poorly some people in this fandom treat c!tommy and how differently from any other character they treat him, for example c!ranboo. It shows so much after every single stream, especiay this one and its such a pet peeve of mine because its so unfair.

If people don't like c!tommy thats absolutely fine, but don't pull stuff out of your arse to tear the character down.

When c!tommy lost henry and was clearly grieving and feeling terribly, c!ranboo didn't really deal with that very well and did a bad job comforting him and thus sometimes came off borderline mocking. And that is very justified and in character from his pov because he is not at all equipped to handle peoples mental breakdowns and shouldn't have to be, hes basically a walking mental breakdown himself. Not once after that stream did i see a comment anywhere that was like 'c!ranboo is ignoring tommys trauma/isnt taking it seriously!!bad friend!!'

But after c!tommy makes one tiny offhand comment about c!tubbo having thicker skin, from his pov also fully justified and in character, its suddenly 'ooh he isnt taking his trauma seriously!!!bad friend!" Or again today, with them deciding that ranboos 'tubbo is only using me for my items' (which was absolutely a joke and not serious lore) isn't cannon, but tommy accidentally blowing up tubbos stuff, (like tubbo did to him on his birthday btw and Nobody said a word about it BECAUSE IT ALSO WASNT CANON NOR INTENTIONAL) is.

I see people bragging about not watching c!tommys pov and not c!ranboos despite them having about the same viewership numbers during lore streams. They complain about c!tommy taking away attention from others and being the protagonist, while declaring c!ranboo who is also involved in many plotlines the 'next protagonist' in the very same sentence...

Some people just pick and choose anything that makes c!tommy look bad and put both c!ranboo and cc!ranboo on a pedestal. And don't even get me started on their totally invasive takes on the irl friendships. At this point they should just admit that they hate cc!tommy, stop watching his stuff if he annoys them so much, and shut up.

this isn’t ranboo critical in any way at all, because it isn’t his fault that people in this fandom behave this way/there’s a bias between them, but yea, you’re right.

i don’t know what it is, but people seem to be more open to supporting c!ranboo than they do c!tommy under any circumstance. and it’s like, that’s fine, you’re allowed to have characters you’re more open to supporting/you like more than others —god knows i do— but it gets the point where when you’re actively comparing the two characters/saying things like “ranboo wouldn’t ever do this” or “ranboo is so much better at __/for __ than tommy is!” is like. Okay Pal. i don’t know what it is, if i’m honest. i don’t know if it’s tommy’s abrasive personality that throws ‘em off, but the double standards in this fandom never fail to astound me —and, it isn’t always with ranboo. there’s a lot more people that are willing to be forgiving with any other character than c!tommy. there’s always the “i’m not excusing c!tommy but i can understand why he did __” or “he shouldn’t have done __!! he’s evil!! a monster!” but when it comes to anyone else it’s just “they popped off 🥺🥺🥺 deserved!! never did anything wrong!” and it’s getting to the point where i’m genuinely tired of it. people in this fandom take any opportunity they can to bash on his character but when it’s anybody else it’s just crickets, and they like do this funny little things /s, where they make fun of apologists for c!tommy for only liking a character if they’re nice to him, but then turn around and do the same exact thing and when said character isn’t nice to their fave they’re the devils incarnate, so it’s hypocritical for them to stereotype c!tommy apologists as people who only care about certain characters if they have a positive opinion of tommy when they do the same thing.

i’m just sort of tired of it. when c!tommy makes the slightest mistake i’m always anxious to check tumblr or twitter because i already know —i’m already expecting thousands of people to have turned against him. there’s such open support of c!tommy one second, but once he makes one harmless mistake it’s suddenly he’s unforgivable once again and i’m getting tired of people not bothering to understand his character and brushing him off as horrible but when it comes down to anyone else they’re way more open for second chances.

i don’t fucking understand it, is the problem.

genuinely, i don’t . i don’t understand why the vendetta against him goes so far, and i’d be open for people to tell me why they hate him but half of he time they don’t have a reason beyond him being annoying/the mistakes he’s already made up for and theyre just choosing to hold a grudge against him for.

i don’t care if you don’t like c!tommy, don’t take this post as an opportunity to debate with me (/srs), because i’m tired of explaining to deaf ears why “hey, he isn’t actually that bad guys”, because it’s 4:51AM and i’m being driven by spite and pettiness only. i will bite your head off /hj

[appleflavoredkitkats]

Who Are the Four Horsemen of the Dream SMP Apocalypse?

Art by: Viktor Vasnetsov

[TW’s: torture, death, murder, manipulation, alcohol, substance abuse, discussions about the end of the world, religion, starvation, violence, implied gambling, blood, alcoholism]

Word Count: 3.5k

INTRODUCTION

Hopefully I finish this before I feel too sleep-deprived, but I’ve been thinking about the presence of horsemen in Quackity’s “My Enemies” stream. These mysterious, hooded figures are quite odd to say the least, and their involvement with Las Nevadas still remains unknown. There has been a debate on whether there were three horsemen or four, and in my opinion, I believe that there are four horsemen present.

Why four? In the first scene, three horsemen arrive at the Dream SMP on a dark and stormy night. They seem to have come from the south, entering Eret’s castle from the back. As they stop to pull their Netherite swords out, air raid sirens are heard from the distance.

Similarly, in the last scene, Quackity is seen placing a book in Wilbur’s memorial before leaving, riding his skeleton horse, Ossium. The scene cuts from first person POV to third, and we see a hooded figure, presumably Quackity because of how both came from the same direction. Additionally, air raid sirens are also heard from a distance.

[MORE UNDER THE CUT!]

I theorize that these two scenes take place at the same time. The prequel scenes only began after we see the sequence of Quackity torturing Dream, and it ends after the flashbacks of Wilbur. We can synthesize that both these scenes are set at the same time, and that these horsemen are going to meet at a certain point on the prime path.

What may suggest that these four horsemen are supposed to be parallels to the biblical four horsemen?

Firstly, seeing the bits they do, Quackity and Schlatt do know a lot of biblical references. Schlatt has compared Tubbo to Jesus once, and Quackity has said many prayers as jokes in the Dream SMP. It’s just… easy to take inspiration from biblical symbols and references, and also, the four horsemen are just very popular figures in history, so you know, why not?

Also, this may also sound RIDICULOUS, but the fact that this stream establishes that Tommy got resurrected three days after he got killed is actually very reminiscent of, well, you guessed it, Jesus Christ. 72 hours is oddly specific, and I don’t think the cc’s made it that way for no reason. Tommy’s parallels to Jesus—which is a VERY funny phrase—could imply that the Dream SMP might draw more parallels to Christianity, and the four horsemen could be another one of these references.

Also, Quackity mentioned how in Las Nevadas, he made four casinos for him and the rest of El Rapids. So, we know four is a number we can associate with Las Nevadas, and there’s a chance Quackity gave these casinos to three other people. Four casinos, four horsemen.

What is the purpose of the four horsemen in the Dream SMP? When the air raid sirens went off, we can think of these four horsemen as the bringer of chaos or danger into the Dream SMP, very reminiscent of the purpose of the original four horsemen in Christianity. We can also connect it to the end of the world, as these four only appear when the world begins to end. This can imply that these four, who are most likely allies of Quackity in Las Nevadas, are somewhat connected to how the Dream SMP will end.

Now, who is who? Admittedly, it is difficult to find a definitive answer on which member represents what horseman, so I’ll try my best considering all the possibilities for each. I’ll add my own ranks on how probable I think they are, but I have to specify that these are subjective- I am not a beacon of truth, y’all.

So let’s get started.

Firstly, I want to discuss who might NOT be a horseman to narrow it down a bit:

Any minors might not be involved. In Sam’s face reveal stream, aka the first stream mentioning Las Nevadas, Quackity and Sam agree they don’t want Tubbo and Tommy to participate in underage gambling. Don’t know if this applies to Ranboo and Fundy (since he might be canonically a child? Who knows), so they get more of a pass, but the clingy duo might not.

The Syndicate. I’d like to think that the Syndicate, as well as Dream, are Quackity’s main foils of the server. As they are the richest and also the most skilled in PVP, Quackity stands no chance against them even with his sharp tongue. As these people are foils against Quackity, and also probably hate his guts, Quackity might not hire them at Las Nevadas. I theorize he’d probably use Dream as a watchdog against the Syndicate, but that’s a theory for another time. 

Additional point about Dream: he’s in prison.

Anyone from Kinoko Kingdom because it’s clear Quackity severed all ties with them.

The Eggpire is half-half. They can possibly join, but also can’t, Quackity can manipulate them into joining only for their inevitable demise, or Quackity wouldn’t wanna associate with them after the explosion incident. They’ll at least get a few passes in some categories, but again, not entirely sure.

CONQUEST

Also known as Plague, Pestilence, and in some occasions, both Jesus Christ and the Antichrist, Conquest is shown to be riding on a white horse, donning a victor’s crown and a bow. There are many interpretations of Conquest, especially with their ambiguous morality. Some people can perceive them as bad, representing the origin of many wars. Some people claim that they represent pestilence and plague as their arrows are slathered with the infections they want to spread. In some cases, they can also be interpreted as good, as their description is heavily reminiscent of Jesus Christ himself. Others would rebut that there is also a possibility that they might be a fake replica of Jesus created by Satan, thus making them the antichrist.

Sam (8/10)

Sam is my first choice when it comes to Conquest because, firstly, he fits the appearance. He is one of the only people in the Dream SMP who dons a crown, and they also possess a bow which they frequently use. I’d say that Sam as Conquest matches with his ambitions as a member of the Badlands, Pestilence or Plague match with his possible crimson infection, and Antichrist matches with his inability to keep Tommy, the possible Jesus figure on the SMP, alive or safe. 

My only issue is: would Sam be one of the three who arrived at the Dream SMP in the beginning? Sam is very strict with his job as warden, so it is unlikely that he would be seen far from it.

Any of the Eggpire (7/10)

As Conquest is heavily depicted with pestilence or plague, any of the Eggpire may fit under this category. As their goal as the Eggpire is meant to conquer the Dream SMP, this also matches with the goal of Conquest. Additionally, one of the Egg’s weaknesses is Church Prime, something heavily resembling Christianity, so if the Egg is its opposite, we can view the Egg as somewhat of an antichrist. 

I say Punz, Bad, Ponk, and Hannah have a higher chance of being Conquest, while Ant is a solid ‘maybe’. Punz could’ve been the one who blew up the Egg, Bad can be easily persuaded by Quackity, Ponk is one of the only capitalists of the server that may participate in Las Nevadas, and Hannah’s character heavily fits the theme of pestilence when it comes to nature. Additionally, I like to believe that Conquest was the horseman on the skeleton horse (that isn’t Quackity’s), especially since they were holding a dandelion in one shot, something that could be attributed to “pestilence” because a dandelion is a weed. This may imply that Hannah could be part, but because they haven’t interacted much beforehand, we wouldn’t be sure. More insight on Punz: he once mentioned he upholds his duties as mercenary more than he might love the Egg, so there’s a chance Quackity bribed him to join Las Nevadas.

The main con to this is that: why would the Eggpire willingly join Quackity, or why would the Egg allow them to join Quackity? I can see that Quackity might break their brainwashed states because he has a good way with words, but people like Bad, Ant, and Punz have stated that they’ve been fully controlled by the Egg. Also, Quackity makes it clear he wants to eradicate his enemies, so he might not want any members of the Eggpire to join Las Nevadas… unless there’s a traitor?

Schlatt, Mexican Dream, or Wilbur (6/10)

Heavily connected with winning if you take Manberg, Mexican L’Manberg, or L’Manberg into mind.

Wilbur also has a memorable crossbow, but I don’t know if that counts as a bow.

Any dead characters have a high chance of joining Las Nevadas because of its possible connections to death and the revival system of the SMP.

Other possibilities with short explanations and low but possible odds:

Eret: Has a crown, his betrayal can be seen as a “win”, has Tommy’s bow from the duel. Can be seen as an antichrist figure.

Jack: As he is against Tommy, he can be seen as an antichrist figure. Might be working with Las Nevadas because of his deal with Quackity.

Ranboo: He’s a minor, but he also has a crown and a bow so, maybe? He’s not much of a conqueror or winner, though.

Connor: Didn’t really conquer much, didn’t really win much, he’s just here because of Schlatt, honestly.

WAR

War is depicted to be holding a raised sword as they ride atop a red horse. After conquest, war is expected to follow, and War is tasked to break any type of peace on earth. He is tasked to kill, or make humans kill each other. The prominence of red symbolizes bloodshed or immense anger, something very present in war. Multiple depictions of War show him with his sword raised upwards, signifying the start of a battle.

Schlatt (9/10)

The man’s literally torn the Dream SMP apart (/lh). This man is always keen on fulfilling his goals, and if it means he’ll have to fulfill them in the most twisted of ways, he will do it. Him winning the Election brought immense conflict in the Dream SMP, and many people were torn apart on which side was the right or wrong side. One of Schlatt’s prominent colors besides blue would be red, as it is the color of his tie and the color of his ghost form’s horns. Red could represent the bloodshed of those who died during the Manberg-Pogtopia conflict, or red can signify the anger Schlatt had for his own cabinet.

Schlatt was also gifted a sword by Dream called “Shclatt”. The sword only holds heavy significance because of how Fundy treasured it like an heirloom.

Wilbur (8/10)

Another good possibility too as Ghostbur was recently seen to admire red a lot more than blue in one of Tommy’s streams. We can also view the creation of L’Manberg as a place that broke the peace in the Dream SMP as they didn’t really NEED to create L’Manberg and declare war, yet, he did. Red can also resemble his anger for what has been done to L’Manberg- everything is pretty self-explanatory, honestly.

My only qualm with Wilbur being one of the horsemen is how we can’t really… tell if he’s in the Dream SMP? He seems to be very clear on the fact that he does NOT want to return, so he might not even be there when the four horsemen became a thing.

Any of the Eggpire (7/10)

Honestly? Same reasoning as the first explanation for the Eggpire. This also applies for why they might not be one of the horsemen.

Do I even need to explain the red part, or do we just all understand that red is literally their brand.

The Eggpire practically breaks peace in the server and is keen on taking control of the entirety of the Dream SMP. The Egg is shown to be ruthless towards anyone, and will even let some of its followers kill people if needed. 

I see Bad as someone who might qualify for this position more because he initiates a lot of the activity in the Eggpire. Same goes for Ant, Punz, and Ponk, but they don’t really take initiative most of the time.

Jack Manifold (4/10)

The only reason I kind of added him here was that he wanted to kill Tommy, but Jack isn’t entirely selfish or peace-breaking. I do think he might play a role in Las Nevadas, especially since if Quackity has access to the nukes, only Jack and Ranboo might be the only two who helped him gain access.

Jack is also… very angry at Tommy. Rightfully so, because he basically surrounded a good portion of his life trying to kill Tommy only for him to realize that that might not be his purpose in life. He blames Tommy for a lot of the loss in the server, so he has a lot of anger, but he has no one to vent it all out to.

Other possibilities with short explanations and low but possible odds:

Eret: Did the first betrayal, but that’s about it. He’s also participated in several wars against others who disagreed with him being the king.

Ranboo: Participated in wars, but is a peacemaker so, y’know.

Fundy: While he does possess Schlatt’s sword, he isn’t much of an initiator of wars as much as he is merely a follower. He has shown that he is quite angry at those who have used him, but the anger has dissipated lately into some sort of sadness/denial.

Connor: He’s mournful that Schlatt, a close friend, has died, but he isn’t really one to be angry. He tried living far away to make his own independent nation, but it didn’t impact much of the story. He also one possessed “Ghostbur’s Stabbing Knife”, which could represent the sword.

FAMINE 

Famine is seen to be holding a scale (presumably for food) as they ride atop a horse. Famine is also denoted to be the only one speaking, saying “A quart of wheat for a denarius! And three quarts of barley for a denarius! But don’t ruin the oil and the wine!”. This statement basically means that we have to pay a full day’s worth of earnings for a bit of wheat and barley but oil and the wine, something not considered human necessities, can have the same prices. This shows an unfairness when it comes to acquiring basic human necessities. This is especially damaging to the poor as Famine’s statement can possibly make the poor poorer, while the rich remain the same. It is implied that the wider the gap between the poor and the rich, the closer we are to the end of the world.

Fundy (9/10)

This may be a long answer because I am biased towards Fundy, but Niki once stated that Manberg was in some sort of a famine because of the destruction of farms. Because of this, certain citizens have resorted into eating spider eyes from the EXP farm, but it was notable that she was practically calling out Fundy, someone who literally advertised spider eyes to any person he talked to in the Dream SMP.

Fundy is also hinted to be heavily connected to these hooded figures somehow. In his dream, he was chased by one until he slept in a black bed, the color of Famine.

Additionally, in his dream, he held baked potatoes (food) which could be related…? He’s also a libra so… scales…?

He is also a notorious prankster in the Dream SMP and will bargain for anything as long as he profits from it. He’s not the richest by any means, but he loves doing pranks that involve stealing belongings from other people.

Schlatt (8/10)

Similar reason to Fundy as he was the president of Manberg responsible for these famines. Additional note for this is that he also taxed Niki, one of their only food sources in Manberg. 

Schlatt also likes to joke around about being rich, earning money, or being a businessman often, especially with the entire Schlatt coin joke. Connected to Famine’s trait of making the rich richer, possibly?

Famine’s statement can also apply here as it is implied that if humanity doesn’t possess the basic of necessities, they might at least have wine which won’t provide any solutions to humanity’s starvation at all, but it will distract you from your starvation by making you heavily drunk until you finally die. This is very reminiscent of how Schlatt died.

Sam (6/10)

Sam is one of the richest people on the server, matching Famine’s want to keep the rich rich. Only problem here is that Sam is at least very generous and provides a lot of people with resources when needed.

Sam could possibly be connected to Famine because of how he treats Dream in prison. In an attempt to torture Dream, he starves him, cutting his food supply.

Same problem remains with Sam not being able to join whatever the hell the four horsemen are because of his duties as warden.

Any of the Syndicate (1/10)

Only giving an exception here because the Syndicate is exceptionally rich and is more selfish about it than others. Low chances, but Ranboo… might? But it’s still a bit iffy for me. Niki might as well because of her connections to the Manbergian famine, but still on the fence with this one too.

DEATH

Death is often depicted riding a pale horse, but some variations have called the horse light green. Death does not don a weapon themselves, but they are always accompanied by Hades. Hades in Christianity is the place or state of the departed spirits, meaning Death has contact with those who have died. Sometimes, Death is depicted with a scythe similar to the Grim Reaper, but some say Death has no weapon at all as Death themself is the weapon. Death is not only meant to collect souls and end lives, but they can also represent the end of an era of humanity.

Quackity (10/10)

I would say Quackity can fit any other category, but I am so sure that Quackity is death because of how death and toying with death seems to be one of Quackity’s main themes in the Dream SMP. Quackity, once hesitant about killing others, has been shown to now impulsively want to kill others: first with Techno, then Ranboo, then Dream. 

Quackity will also most likely acquire information about revival on the Dream SMP, so he is in close proximity with Hades, or in the Dream SMP, the Void. This also heavily ties in with the idea that he will make others gamble away their canon lives only for him to resurrect or return their canon lives if they ever successfully gamble it back. 

Quackity is also known to be very powerless in terms of PVP and battle, but you know what he succeeds in? His own words. He is his own weapon that can get him whatever he wants as long as the person he’s up against is in a vulnerable position. 

He is also confirmed to be one to have a skeleton horse, and some depictions of Death’s horse show that it is very corpse-like.

A bloody scythe can also be seen in Quackity’s first lore teaser, and that can be attributed to Death.

Other possibilities with short explanations and low but possible odds:

Schlatt: First owned the revival book but he literally does not know its contents. Fits the “they are their own weapon” trait.

Dream: The only exception I can give. But again, he is literally in prison…?

Wilbur & Mexican Dream: Only putting these two here because they have experienced death. These two fit the “they are their own weapon” category too.

Connor: Wants to revive Schlatt, but that’s it.

CONCLUSION

Honestly, my first conclusion for the four horsemen were Sam/Conquest, Schlatt/War, Fundy/Famine, and Quackity/Death, but I only see Quackity as Death to be something that is HIGHLY possible. For Conquest, I shift between Sam and one of the Eggpire, for War, I shift between Wilbur and Schlatt, and for Famine, I shift between Fundy and Schlatt. Again, no definitive answer, but I’d love to hear your own thoughts on this.

I am very tired, but also remember to reblog if you do enjoy this! Again, would love to hear your own insights, and would appreciate any type of discussion! :D

[ruby-whistler]

Alright curious anon here. All this is /dsmp /rp from here on out unless otherwise specified and is refering to characters. If i make any mistakes or am misinformed please let me know! So by the cat was nothing compared to mushroom henry i was meaning more toward the fact that the cow was killed as a punishment for something not worth or ok for it to be killed for at all and the fact that it belonged to tommy, wheareas the cat was killed more to annoy dream and belonged to tommy. (1/?)

alright then another lengthy reply, here i come! /lh /dsmp /rp

Dream also did not seem to mourn the cat much, shrugging it off with a "just more motivation to break out".

it was killed to hurt dream, not to "annoy him". it doesn't matter who it belonged to, c!dream was attached to it and it died, which had an effect on him and also further proved his point about attachments being weakness and caring getting you hurt, and it's still very sad.

you say that it was not ok at all to kill mooshroom henry, but the cat's death wasn't ok either, so i really don't see your point.

again, i disagree it was "nothing compared to" either way. i never meant to compare them in the first place, i was simply talking about the cat and c!dream so i don't see why it is in any way necessary to drag c!tommy and other dead pets into this. /nm

also, it isn't true he didn't mourn it. he is a very reserved person who doesn't show his feelings much, that's true, but the cat death still changed the way he acted afterwards, as well as the attempts he made to prevent it. he didn't "shrug it off", he yelled about it because he was understandably upset.

You mentioned that propganda was used to make dream seem like a tyrant, could you specify a bjt? Cus im a little confused srry /gen. Because the most i can remember from the lmanburg era at least is him being called a b'tch or other similar insults. You also mentioned how trauma responses can be differet which is true! I agree! Do you have any ideas to what caused dream the trauma?

wilbur would continuously make him out to be some sort of oppressive, tyrannical force, in front of his troops - a prime example of this being the lyrics of the l'manberg anthem itself and the l'manberg declaration of independence.

actually! here's a nice thread about l'manberg's establishment complete with links, timestamps and evidence :]

i also said in my previous post what could've possibly caused it, but since the character intentionally hides his emotions from the public, it would be difficult to see how things really affected him - which is why the way his spiral went is the majority of the evidence that would imply it, however it does make sense within the story as well with what i mentioned last time.

I would like to note that for sapnap at least had reason to leave dream. Some examples off the top of my head are dream leading an angry fundy to sapnap's pets on purpose, resulting in some deaths, dream assisting tommy in burning down sapnap's effiel tower where he got engaged to karl, and dream giving tommy either mars or the other fish at the battle of the lake. Idk about george tho other then the whole mexican lmanburg/el rapids thing and decrowning him

c!sapnap was actually at fault for most of this, and it wasn't really ever betrayal on c!dream's part.

c!dream is a mediator and he wants to stop everyone's conflict - c!fundy was angry because of c!sapnap's actions, and hence it made more sense for c!dream to centre him on c!sapnap's animals instead of running around killing everyone's pets (at that time, all c!dream knew was c!sapnap did something really bad and c!fundy wanted beckerson / mars from him, which were also his and c!george's fish).

c!sapnap was an instigator, and in multiple conflicts during the time as well as before he'd align himself against c!dream. he isn't "loyal" per se, he causes chaos and the reason c!dream helped c!tommy was because, c!sapnap, again, killed his pet. the first l'manberg war and then the 16th are signs of the fact that c!dream and c!sapnap were willing to fight together in actual war, but these small conflicts where c!sapnap continuously picked fights weren't about personal loyalty, nor did they seem to affect their relationship at all.

c!george was never really hurt by c!dream either. the dethronement was him very obviously being a guilt-trippy drama queen, but, well, that's just the character. he had stolen the l'mantree while he was supposed to be the diplomatic figure of the greater smp, which is why c!dream was justified in - very politely, may i mention - taking the duties off of him (seeing as he was also trying to keep him safe and c!techno had already assassinated him once).

Im pretty sure i remember cc!sam stating that his character never canonically physically tortured dream during his subathon but take this with a grain of salt as i am looking for the clip currently. So to the best of my knowledge dream did not have a physical contact trigger during tommy's visit which! I rewatched the vod and dream actually was first to hit tommy and i can give you my full writing downs but 10/12 of the phy-

you never finished this point because you had to go do something, but i'll reply to what is here at the moment (i suggest writing these down before sending next time, or even writing them out wholly before sending a single one could help avoid stuff like this).

i am 95% sure that the reason cc!sam stated this was because people were suspicious he had already been doing what c!quackity was doing after - torture within the storyline itself is associated pretty much only with what c!quackity is doing, so that's what he meant, just to clear up confusion - the starvation or terrible conditions haven't been retconned, but it was direct torture (like c!quackity is doing) people were asking him about.

i never said c!dream had a physical contact trigger at all, i don't think he had that, though he probably will after the torture.

huh, ok, i'm gonna have to rewatch then, but i remember c!tommy punching c!dream a lot and him just telling him to stop and only punching back to get him to stop. trigger or not, getting hit isn't very pleasant, if you know what i mean.

You mentioned tommy stealing dream's armor unprovoked. Do you have the vod or a general idea of the time so i can find it? Like before lmanburg after another event so and so because if you do not have it i can find it but any help is appreciated.

i am pretty sure you can find the video on cc!tommy's channel! there are also recaps of the disc war on youtube :]

I wanna talk a little on why the Final Control Room was so messed up. For starters, with the way the room was designed. It was small, and had labeled, empty chests with each person's name on them as a mockery. The next reason is that its bascially a kill box.

It's fairly inescapble with the stairs being ones you have to jump up, slowing anyone who climbs them down. The final reason it is messed up is that it is shown to have caused every person who died in it trauma. With tommy there are several examples, the time he saw it with techno, the way he refuses to go near it, the exposure trauma, etc. Fundy also appears to have trauma, as when the Red Banquet executions began, it can be seen as him being afraid of dying last again.

It can Be thought as tubbo having trauma because he buries most of his issues and pretends to be ok. Moreover this event took at least one of each person's canon lives, making it the most canon lives lost EVER in a dream smp event. (This is not hate on any of the ccs btw i loved this scene and its one of my personal favorites). Plus the fact Eret's betrayal just literally happened, giving at least Tommy and Wilbur canonic trust issues.

i wouldn't call the chests mockery? it was a trap. people had traps on the smp before. it was a trap in the middle of war, supposed to end said war by killing them all at once rather than individually which would be a lot more bloody and difficult.

i agree c!tommy and other people might have post-war trauma, especially if they were young during the time, but i think that's because the final control room was "messed up", moreso because the war itself was. it all happened fairly instantly as well? i don't think c!fundy would be able to realize he was the last one standing within the two second before he wasn't.

it "can be thought" and it can be interpreted like that but besides c!tommy there isn't much evidence for them "all" being traumatized by the final control room. of course betrayal would spark trust issues, i understand that.

The probation was humiliating in my opinion because dream was Sending tommy anatgonizing messages through out the whole meeting, plus he had to write a review of his day every single day, which fundy mocked him for.

i mean, it was definitely a strike to his pride, but he was being extremely uncooperative so i don't really blame the other members of new l'manberg trying to teach him to listen for once? of course i know c!dream was riling him up, and that should definitely be considered. i don't think it would be as humiliating if c!tommy didn't make it, is what i'm saying.

for the tommy being toxic to fundy? At least for the examples you gave, to me personally they come acoross as either in a meta way being the cc's bantering or in canon being the characters having banter. If you can send the post with the clips so i can read the tone better that would be cool but if not i will try and find em.

no, these were all in canon. canon isn't only when c!tommy is being nice, it's also when he's being a jerk. /lh

the first one was him threatening c!fundy about kicking him out of l'manberg and undermining his self-worth, and the second one was him trying to get c!sapnap to vote for them via bullying c!fundy.

i found these from a transcript focusing on c!fundy's character, so i don't know exactly where the first one is from, but the second one i am pretty sure is from when the elections were starting with the whole cabinet battle deal and all of that.

there are other instances, and all of them are canon. his personality was never being nice or compassionate, so i'm not really surprised? he still cares about the people he cares about and is very brave, y'know. but this part of his personality is definitely a valid reason for people to dislike him.

I hope the exam went well :). Hope u have a great day! (Ps i think theres something called a submission box to send in pictures? Am not entirely sure sry)

it would've gone well but my work-speed is a tad too slow for the schooling system (considering i'm three years younger than my classmates,,, probably that's also a factor) so probably not despite the fact i knew everything and would've aced it if i only had more time. i did as well as i could so i'm not worried about it, but thanks!

i think you're thinking submissions. sadly, i tested it and it doesn't work on anons, so idk how you'd solve that, maybe make a burner account?

Curious anon here one point you may wanna include in the redemption essay is that c!tubbo or c!tommy do not necessarily have to forgive him. What's important is that he recognizes what he did was wrong (exile, beating tommy to death, manipulating them both, etc) and does his best to make amends. Hope this helps! Can't wait to see your essay

it's out, idk if you've seen it yet, and i think i included enough of that so hope it's all good! :)

the mcc update video is out if you are an mcc enjoyer. It's very neat, if you wanna check it out

yeah! i am a fellow mcc enjoyer, saw it already, thanks for telling me though, i'm really hype for today.

Allo curious anon here sorry if the lots of asks bother you. I was just curious if i could share an interesting post i saw today about c!dream :0 (not necessarily negative i think? More of a statement of an often-confused canon)

sure thing! i don't know what you mean by often-confused since, the entire fanbase is very confused always, and often selection bias plays into the perception from both sides, but sure :]

you also sent in a thing for the other anon who said they didn't know what c!dream did that bad; pretty sure they couldn't really be alerted since, not sure if they watch my blog that closely, but i'll summarize your points just in case and add some notes;

the repeated blowing up of l'manberg (in my mind that's largely a positive since i,, despise that country, but fair enough), revealed c!ranboo as a traitor (they seem to be friends so i also,, think that might've been planned between him and enderboo), sent ghostbur away (i don't think c!dream knew it was dangerous for him and wanted to actually hurt him, but idk), participated in fighting against c!sapnap when he killed people's pets (that's only negative against c!sapnap and didn't seem to hurt him much at all), and then the whole vault scene where he was allegedly planning to steal people's things (though saying he would & being stopped beforehand and doing it are two different things, frankly).

so i still agree with the other anon that a lot of the hurt he did "to the entire server" (he only negatively interacted with like,, a half of them) is exaggerated both by the characters and the fandom, but i guess that's a consequence of most people seeing him as a threat to everyone's happiness rather than a complex personality.

Also he was aware of the butcher army going to kill techno but only got involved because he saw an opportunity to get a favor. (As he knew in advance due to him telling techno to get a totem, watching from afar instead of interveing or manipulating tubbo out of it)

i don't understand this at all, i'm sorry. how do you know he only helped techno in order to get a favor? last i remember he was only doing it to protect and strengthen his alliance, and techno came up with the whole favor thing entirely on his own. you might've not watched techno's perspective or their prior interactions, idk, but this really is a misinterpretation in my eyes. /nm

sorry if that is overly dream negative i just wanted to let yall know cus you seemed unaware -curious anon

nah dw, i watch the smp and i watched all of these things happen so, wouldn't say unaware, but thanks.

[alouispo]

okay so heres my opinion on the whole doomsday thing

[Uh, okay so i realized i might have made a mistake on my tagging and my wording on this post? I promise i dont wanna spread hate to any of the cc’s or put hate into the community that doesnt need to be there. i uhh, im not too good when it comes to tagging so im going to remove the tags and hope that its all cleared up. sorry about that everyone, and thank you to the nice person that mentioned to me how i should fix it. <3] [Note: Don’t really take this too seriously, just me talking about my opinion on the whole thing and I don’t wanna make anyone mad okay ;-;] 

You see, I keep getting people talking about how Tommy was the bad person in all of this thing (if you couldn’t tell by now I’m a Tommy apologist haha). That Tommy was in the wrong for betraying Technoblade and that he had it coming- 

That right there my friend, is not completely true. 

Techno had also betrayed Tommy in a similar way. Sure, Tommy had done it first technically but then he went ahead and teamed up with the person who had practically manipulated everyone on the server to hate Tommy in the first place. So, they both betrayed each other. Both of them are in the wrong and both of them are in the right, and you can’t tell me otherwise- 

BUT- here is my problem. 

Doomsday, is my problem. 

Technoblade, Philza, and Dream decided that they were gonna completely destroy L’manburg for good, yeah? But Techno and Phil didn’t have any reason to other than: “They tried to execute me and I don’t like that.” There was no reason to destroy it again after L’manburg tried to get even with Technoblade because he helped destroy it the first time. He literally could have just left it at that and everything would have been fine but nope! They destroyed it again. 

Dream is different though, he had been trying to destroy L’manburg from the beginning when it started in the first place. He had an actual reason to, since it’s technically his kingdom and L’manburg was in intrusion so that was coming from the start. 

NOW PHILZA MINECRAFT- 

See, this man didn’t have a good reason to destroy L’manburg other than the fact that they tried -and failed- to execute Technoblade and Phil was put under house arrest that I am very sure he could have escaped easily. Philza didn’t really care for L’manburg even though it was a government; only reason he cared cause Techno was against it. 

Now it pisses me off a bit because he destroyed the last memory that Tommy had of the real Wilbur; before he went insane. Not just L’manburg itself but the camarvan too, along with New L’manburg too that had everyone’s belongings and homes. THEN, when Ghostbur says that Phil knew that everyone’s belongings was in there, Phil has the audacity to say that he’ll learn someday. 

WHAT? What do you mean Philza Minecraft, how fucking dare you say that-

Sorry getting a bit excited to talk about this and I didn’t want to make the post too long- [Again, don’t take this too seriously just me talking about this. Might make another one on this in the future]

[electracraft]

I've been seeing those george neg tweets about how he hasn't tweeted about pride month or juneteenth (despite saying happy juneteenth on stream) but using those as an example to drive the point that he basically gets away with not saying much at all and saying how if it were dream he would be receiving backlash but george gets away with not doing much.

And its like for a first, i understand how people might be disappointed but at the same time many other CC's haven't spoken about pride or juneteenth and its fine....? Like if your CC isn't an activist...they aren't an activist. That's not to say your CC doesn't support these events they just don't feel the need to tweet about it on their platform despite speaking about it in their streams. And comparing how George stays silent to Dream and arguing how dream would get backlash is odd, dream is more outspoken on twitter and whatever he'd say good or bad will inevitably give him backlash because anti's exist, also him not tweeting about juneteenth i suppose would be different since its an american holiday supporting black americans. George or any CC from the UK for that matter; Jack, Wilbur, Tommy, Tubbo, Smajor, Ponk etc etc haven't tweeted about juneteenth because in the UK there's a different date to commerate the end of slavery.

Like george not saying anything isnt inherently bad, it doesn't harm anyone, i can see how people are disappointed about it but saying stuff like 'why cant he do it when his bestfriends tweeted about it?' Or 'if dream did that he would get hate' is the wrong way to ask him to show his support, and also ignores the fact that again, Juneteeth is not a thing in the UK.

i would like to preface this by saying that i'm white and non-american, so i'm definitely not the person that should speak on this. i am going to report my humble opinion here because you asked me, but take my words for what are worth (basically nothing)

if i'm being honest i never understood this entitlement to bare-minimum "activism". if my favorite content creator makes a tweet wishing everyone an happy pride month i'm happy about it and i appreciate that they're trying to cultivate a safe space for me in their audicence. if they don't make a tweet about pride, i just don't care? like i wouldn't even notice that cishet man number 34 hasn't tweeted anything if it wasn't for the people calling that out.

overall, while i get where they're coming from, in wanting popular content creators to use their platforms as best as they can, you can't coerce them. you are allowed to make a judgement on them for this, you can say "i would rather support content creators that are not afraid of supporting me and possiby alienating a part of their audience to show what they believe in", but wasting your energy in poking a probably uneducated content creator that will likely only tweet "happy pride month :)" really seems fruitless to me.

it's not your job to educate them. i'm only here to watch them play minecraft, i don't care about keeping track of their online presence and nitpicking everything they do or don't do. I used to be a bit like this i think, and I still personally don't appreciate that george is so careful in being neutral (though this doesn't refer to the pride month tweet specifically), but it doesn't matter. i can be critical of the content i consume while understanding how relevant and constructive my criticism would be in a specific situation. if i'm interested in online activism, i will uplift the voices of actual actvists, people who know what they're doing and advocate for an actual change. i won’t overshadow the voices that should be leaders of this moment to call out a minecraft youtuber and get a few thousand likes. 

even if you get george to tweet "happy pride month, love is love" what have you achieved? is it even worth all this? is it even worth anything to get an happy pride month if you had to chase him and threaten twitter cancellation for this? like at this point if he came and said "i'm sorry i haven't tweeted anything before, happy pride month" i would count it as not tweeting anything, it would be just pure performative actions to get twitter to calm down. sorry i don’t need to get my validation as a queer person from georgenotfound acknowledging my existence.

keeping track of who has tweeted and who hasn’t is performative at best and straight up useless at worst, instead of making a thread of all the times georgenotfound stayed silent, retweet resources that can help, show your support in a positive and effective way. at the end of the day, in my opinion we should start treating content creators for what they are, and if you don't like how they manage their online presence, if that doesn't make you feel safe or comfortable, it's your choice to leave and support someone else. it’s not your job to educate them.

i don't want to speak about juneteenth in particular, my feelings are about the same, but admittedly i am in a very privileged position, so who the fuck am i to say "you shouldn't expect this and that from content creators"? this seems like a more delicate issue that i probably shouldn't speak over, though i don't understand why george, british white man, would even know about this. i never knew about juneteenth until this year, if i'm being honest. 

[elliotl]

Some thoughts as my brain is not in a good place right now but it is creative under stress (all about characters).

I think the main problem I see with people criticizing 'The Syndicate' is that they cannot see it anything other than anarchy. They can't be extremist, they can't be hurt, they can't be anything other than anarchist and that bothers me very much. They are people who came together for one common goal. "Techno is working on his ways he deals with things, Phil is allowed to feel bad for L'manberg and pretty it up, Ranboo is allowed to be in Snowchester and be married to Tubbo and Niki is allowed to hate Wilbur and sympathize with other characters" and "they are all anarchists" should exist and are existing in the same plane so what the hell is wrong with the people who criticize. Dude you just have some fucked up idea of being an anarchist.

Why would people think Techno will harm Michael. I get all the anxiety from Tubbo, Ranboo an Phil's part but why would he do that? Techno is very clear about his ideals and he is one of the only few people who will talk. If Techno ever finds about Michael he will probably have a talk with Ranboo and sort it out. I dont think Techno interferes in any of the other characters personal life. He is not the one to make 'other's business is my business'. He runs on mutual respect and sees Tubbo in a good light too. Even if he denies it Ranboo has a special place in Techno's life. Michael has done nothing to Techno ever so i dont get it D:

Dream deserves redemption/comfort arc. Antis and CCs if your opinion differs I dont care. (Please let my lil marshmallow have a lil marshmallow life)

You cannot say Philza is a bad father. Dude that character radiates care everywhere he goes. He reconciled with former L'manberg people. He blew up NLM but you gotta give him credit that he did/does care for people. (I am a firm believer that L'manberg getting blown up is a good thing). Phil being a neglectful father? Fuck you. How about Wilbur being high up is arse? Hmm hmm get me? He is cleaning up the L'manhole. Sometimes you just gotta consider that the child is a bit messed up you know.

If your arguments against Techno, Dream and Phil are that Tommy is a minor. Dont talk to me or my Dreblr, Techno and Phil enjoyers, sympathizers fam ever AGAIN. I am not brushing off that he is a minor, its just a shit spinless argument. I swear to god i gain 1 year of life out of spite every time I see this.

I don't want bedrock bros. NOPE. It's a no for me. I am aware and understand both sides but nope. When Doomsday happened and Tommy said, "The problem with Technoblade, Wilbur, is that he was our friend all along. And here's the thing you gotta understand, we were never his friend." (I am too lazy and distracted to write is all out.) I saw it in a clip and thought Tommy considers Techno as a friend and he is sorry for this actions. But then I saw the VOD and woah. No dude. Fuck Tommy for saying that all cuz i heard this, "For him its all politics and stuff. But you know Tubbo.... Big Q this is just been a friendship." AND ON TOP OF THAT BIG Q SAYS 'YEAH' (I know all the words are not exactly what he said but i summed it up). He says this to the residents of NLM who went out of the way to find and execute Technoblade. Tommy knew that Techno was almost executed by NLM.

Well regarding 'minor terrorism' by Technoblade. You guys attack him cuz he openly named it minor terrorism. How many times people have just griefed/ spolied stuff just for fun or leverage? Why only attack him?

I saw this argument on Youtube under Tommy's vod that 'he is fresh out of Exile and getting thrown into a war. He hasnt healed yet.' I am not found of exile and no one should go through similar stuff like that and I hated Dream did that to him but sure 'Techno was healed from his near execution'.

I am not sure how much this all made sense but these are my view points and I am happy to be corrected anytime. I would love to hear 'sensible' arguments. I'm just rambling :D

[mizmatched]

please tell me about the wild shit. i am far too busy riding the high off of sheep tubbo canon to sit through that bullshit myself

the c!dream apologist doc, a summary:

-the author basically says that the phrase  “Character Dream has done nothing wrong ever,” isn’t correct before immediately calling themselves ‘ a genuine apologist of his character.‘

-the author states that he is not really as bad as every one makes him up to be

-the author says that their are no real villains in the dream smp and that makes it unique. they then immediately call schaltt ‘a greasy bastard who showed no appreciation even towards his most loyal servants‘ and offered no explaination on why schaltt was ever a not a villain, directly contradicting themselves.

-they say that because dream does not stream, we can’t see his perspective and therefore there are way more people against him. the direct quote is ‘The issue with this system is that characters who don't stream don't get to represent themselves properly to an audience.‘ however the author fails to realize that this is the entire point of dream not streaming. 

-’Dream, on the other hand, was an incredibly attentive friend. when he hurt George by dethroning him, he did it not with malice, but with the genuine consideration that he would be making his best friend both happier and safer. However, this was twisted on him: “just say you hate me” made Dream look like the bad guy of a situation he’d started to help, not hurt. Sapnap also doubled down on defending George, which only entrenched a villain narrative further for Dream’s character. ‘ this quote speaks for itself. this is literally undermining the entirety of sapnaps character arc into villainizing dream. 

-the author then says that george was dethroned because cc!george asked cc!dream to dethrone him, and there was no actual malice involved. 

-The author claims that dream treated both sam and punz well, even though they were ‘hired, subordinates that would have received very different treatment under Schlatt.‘

- The author then asks why the audience gives wilbur and techno a ‘pass’ after they manipulated tommy, but not dream.

-' Once again I have to believe that this is due in part to Wilbur and Techno being SMP streamers. If Dream were to show an audience his point of view, I have no doubt in my mind that more people would show his character understanding. ‘ 

That. is. the. entire. point.

-’ For example, let’s talk about Tommy apologists. A lot of Tommy apologists are newer fans of the SMP who don’t understand that he was the primary cause of most of the conflict on the SMP. When Tommy acts violently or irrationally, it can be attributed to his age, the stress that he is under, and the circumstances that bring the SMP to a constant state of war. I don’t fault Tommy’s character for this, but what I dislike is the idea that he can’t then face consequences for his actions. No matter how understandable he is as a person, he is also a political pin. He represents a threat to the peace on the SMP, and a nation that has caused nothing but problems since its conception. ‘ 

this person is starting to sound exactly like how c!dream talks and its disgusting. this is scary

-the author then proceeds to explain that dream ‘can do nothing’ but destroy tommy’s power. dream needs to tear down tommy as he has been ‘falsey built up as a hero’

-the author then proceeds to dis on l’manberg a bit calling it ‘ built upon division, raised by war, and causes even those uninvolved in the original foundation of the nation to partake in or be caught in dangerous, unnecessary, war and bloodshed. ‘

-the author then ‘debunks’ the theories that dream represents any sort of oppressive government, by saying that he is for the abolition of states and an anarchist

-author even argues that dream cannot be authoritarian-left because he is pro religion, as he founded the church of prime

-author goes into further detail about the types of government dream cannot be but that one was the funniest excuse

-’ Dream is not a ruler, a government, or any kind of authority figure in this sense. What he is, is tired and jaded. I’ve described my opinion on this in a previous video and I will do so again. Prior to Tommy’s whitelisting, the SMP was (mostly) peaceful—people were gathering resources, the anarchy was well-maintained, and people were progressing well. Even when conflict arose, Tommy was the one who continued aggressing further—this isn’t the point of this portion of the document, but I recommend rewatching “So I Started a Minecraft War VS Dream” on Tommy’s channel to understand what I mean. Dream’s intention has always been peacekeeping. Yes, by force, if necessary, but this doesn’t make him an authoritarian. If he is personally connected to the world, then he understands the history of nations, and how quickly they fall into violence. We saw it with L’Manburg and we saw it much earlier with The Village That Went Mad. Nations have never and will never find a peaceful resolution, and Dream isn’t required to allow them to sprout up just because the temporary guests of the world want them to. He’s the one, in the end, that watches them crumble. Dismantling them is an act of peace ‘

this is the furthest i got. might continue later, but the doc is SO LONG and my brain can only handle the stupidity for so long. i would like to go into further detail about why this doc is wrong, not only because of the takes but the nature of its evidence, but i am so tired man. 

[spaceorphan18]

Question, since I was not around during the time the show was airing. So I know Crisscolfer (is that what they’re called?) was huge, probably the biggest of the rl actor ships, but I also know that there were so many people that massively shipped Achele and Heya. So, if the crazy CC shippers caused Chris and Darren to distant themselves in public, why wasn’t it the same for Heya (and Achele)? Did Heather and Naya not have any reaction to the crazy invasive people? Did they just not care? Because even after the crazy shipping started, they were still so affectionate both publicly and over social media.

I’m just wondering why it went so far for Darren and Chris.

So, first of all, I don't know how Diana and Lea or Naya and Heather reacted to their fans shipping each other. I can't tell you how they acted. I know zero things about Diana and Lea. But with Naya and Heather, from what I can tell, seemed to mostly shrug it off. They are bffs, and liked to play that up a bit. I also think that neither of their significant others were as harassed as, perhaps, others (I'll get to that in a second.) I also think, at the end of the day, it didn't bother Heather or Naya to be seen as a couple.

I want to state, first, that these are my observations. I do not know Chris or Darren personally, and so this is only from my third party view point. So, please keep that in mind...

Chris and Darren have a lot of other, more complicated (?) things going on.

First, let's talk about Chris. I think sometimes what is forgotten is that he was a literal child coming into the industry from a very sheltered and conservative place. It can be quite shocking to see how fans react to things on a big scale, and for someone who is deeply private and, as I said in the earlier post, deeply individualistic -- being tied to his costar like that upset him a lot.

(There's also a part of Chris that likes to control things - and not being able to control his image, especially his sexual image, seems to be something that has been hard for him. He's seems to have come to terms with it -- but I think it took him a long, long time, especially with people tell him he'd never be any kind of sex symbol, to deal with the idea that people write sex stories about him and his likeness.)

Now - RPS has been a thing forever, and honestly, it used to be a thing that people didn't necessarily believe, they just enjoyed the fiction. I know there were blogs dedicated to CrissColfer that were just fun fic blogs. No one believed it. They just liked to read about it. And honestly, while it's not my cup of tea -- it's fine. The real people are not supposed to be a part of that.

The problem becomes when people a) believe that it's reality and b) cross the line and start effecting the actors' real lives. (As an aside -- this isn't a unique phenomenon -- this kind of stuff happens all the time, which is unfortunate, because it does ruin the experience for actors.)

I think what people might not know, or have forgotten, is that Chris shot to fame really, really quickly. And with that come the crazies. He had a literal stalker for years that we all knew about because she was pretty vocal on the forums and LJ. I know that one reason he moved from his first house is because a group of fans rented out the house behind him and spied on him. People do some really stupid shit when it comes to famous people. And, for someone who, again, is very deeply private and wanting control of his own voice -- this is a part of fame that Chris has been vocal about HATING.

So, when the whole CrissColfer thing started to get out of control sometime in season 4-ish, Chris shut down and out of social media almost completely. (I think there were other factors, too, such as Cory's death and feeling tired of being on the show.)

I think one thing that didn't help (though he's perfectly right to his privacy) is how closed off Chris became about his life. Take Heather and Naya -- they're (were) on social media all the time. Their lives were public enough that (while they showed you probably what you wanted to see or only what they wanted you to see) you, as a fan, feel like you are a part of their life. You aren't, in reality. (which is its own set of problems.) But it makes you feel connected. And Chris disconnected that connection. Which just made people speculate more.

I also think -- around the time he shut down was around the time he started dating Will. Chris is a savvy guy, and, if I had to guess, wanted to protect that relationship -- which we know is rather special, because they've been together for eight years. Do we know that much about Will? Not really. And I'm totally cool with that. Because that's their prerogative. And I respect that.

As an aside -- I have seen first hand some of the stuff they try to pull with Chris. I was a children's event (CHILDREN'S event) where grown women were in the first row, taking photos of his ass, and continued to do so even after he asked them to stop. (my god, I was embarrassed for them.) I don't blame him for shutting people out, because it's truly disheartening to see people act that way.

Meanwhile... Darren. Darren's pretty public about how he mostly thought the whole thing was funny. But was respectful enough to Chris (I'm pretty sure they had a long conversation(s) about how to be in public) to not get too into. But it didn't stop him from, like, mentioning his name while doing Hedwig. If Chris wasn't Chris but someone more open like Naya or Heather, I'm sure Darren wouldn't have minded playing it up a bit. Because I don't think he cares about what other people think about him the same way Chris does.

However, there is one thing Darren does care very much about -- and where he draws a line -- and that's Mia. Mia is his wife. And he loves her very, very deeply. That is a fact. Not my opinion. A fact. And since Darren is the more open of the two, the tinhatters seem to have latched onto Darren (and his sexuality) and this weird obsession that Mia is either bad for him or a beard or whatever.... And they've done some crazy shit.

Now, one of the cool things about Mia is that she's been able to take it (at least publicly) with stride. At the end of the day, she's well aware that she's going to go home and fuck him and you aren't and neither is Chris Colfer. And who really cares about the rest of it. She's also a rather strong woman who doesn't need Darren's defending. But I've seen videos of stuff thrown at Mia, which has been nasty, and Darren step up to defend her. Because that crosses his line. And they've been doing throwing this stuff at her for nearly ten years now.

It's tiresome. It's tiresome for me and I'm not Chris or Darren. So I don't blame either of them for being over it. And the easiest way to do that is to avoid each other. I don't know if that puts anything in perspective nonny, but at least you now know some of the history.

[razberry-jam]

Also!!! Idk if this would help people here??? But I’ve noticed a lot of people having discourse on whether Techno is meant to be interpreted, on a narrative level, if he is in the right or in the wrong! 

I just wanted to share, as someone with a big nerd feelings about storytelling, plot structure, etc- that not every narrative is about showing characters who are in the right, react appropriately, have correct beliefs etc. Most aren’t, actually! 

This is a strange trend I’ve noticed recently!!! I think it’s because a lot of us grew up idolizing fictional characters that we shouldn't have, and so who actually turned out to be assholes?? So I think people have somehow got it stuck in their heads that the main purpose of a character, or a story, is to be a role model, to be an example, send a message etc etc!

A side effect of storytelling is that we draw meaning- a “message” or a “theme” from it. Which is hella cool!! But it’s not what storytelling IS. Storytelling is the process by which you explain the change of state of one thing to another. Saying “The ballon was floating. Then I popped it.” Is a story! Saying “The ballon was a good person. Good things will happen to it.” Is not necessarily, because the ballon is not changing on any fundamental level. Even saying “bad things will happen to it” is not a story, because the ballon is still remaining exactly the same. (more underneath)

A story MIGHT say both. “A boy say a drowning cat. The boy saved the cat. The town threw him a party to thank him!” Is a story. It can be interpreted to send the message, “this boy is good, and because of that good things happen to him. Maybe we should be good too!” But even without the interpretation, the story still stands. 

Because the story does not require a message to be itself, storytelling doesn’t require messages. So the main point of stories can’t be sending messages if they don't require them. A story DOES require that a thing change from one state to another. So, if that’s true, describing change is the point of storytelling. 

It’s sort of like painting. A painting IS paint on canvas. Gogh’s Starry Night is paint on canvas, arranged to look like a night sky. People can pull different interpretations of it- but a good artist rarely goes in with their message fully formed in their mind. An artist represents something else, and by doing so, a message will often come out subconsciously through the artists’s subject combined with their own (often conflicting) beliefs, feelings, and desires.

How do most authors decide to induce change? They use conflict! Conflict: to be incompatible or at variance. Conflict, by its nature, creates change because incompatible things can’t share the same space. These two things will continue to push and fight against each other until they find a place where both of them can come to a rest. Think water and oil! Or a cat and a mouse. 

This is something that is fairly often brought up in English classes! If you’ve listen to some of Technoblade’s early streams, he even brings it up during his first two Pogtopia streams!! He mentions that he’s a little worried because everyone on the server is “too nice” so there's “not enough conflict.” He’s not saying that cause he doesn’t want people to be nice- he’s saying that because when someone is not pushing against you, its harder to know what to do. You ever done improv? It’s much easier to improv a funny argument than to improv two people who are completely on the same page in every way. 

So! Taking the dream smp for example cause thats where we’re at!

I saw some people were a bit upset that Techno said he was glad Tommy died. Yeah, not a nice thing to say about c!Tommy!! BUT cc!Techno choosing to say that is a wonderful thing to do for cc!Tommy!! Why? It creates conflict. 

If Technoblade had a “good” opinion on Tommy’s death, there would not be sufficient conflict between them, which essentially means there is no story left to tell there. That’s not good for cc!Techno or cc!Tommy. 

IF Technoblade had a “neutral” opinion on Tommy’s death (as he initially tried to have) there's still technically not a conflict there. A neutral opinion is still neutral- it does not force Techno to actually confront his mixed feelings about Tommy, or Tommy to come to a bigger awareness of those feelings, either on his or Techno’s side. 

A “bad” opinion on Tommy’s death IS the most conflict inducing choice we have here. Though small, in this moment it immediately brings him into conflict with both Ranboo and Phil (Phil!!! Which is hella interesting!!). 

A “bad” opinion also continues to heighten the conflict between Tommy and Techno, which again, is a good thing. If Techno had openly admitted he was sad that Tommy was dead, then there isn’t really anything new for us to learn about Techno or Tommy when Tommy comes back. It is redundant- which is something you wanna HELLA avoid in storytelling. 

As well as brings Techno into conflict with himself! I’m of the opinion that, while Techno believes what he said, it is not necessarily true. We can see both from Phil’s reaction “I swear he has a heart guys.” We can see this in how he talks about other people we know he cares deeply about ie my “acquaintance” Ranboo who he was willing to murder someone over. And we see this even in his brief interactions with Tommy- when Tommy came over before seeing Dream to steal out of Techno’s chests, Techno was upset, but also incredibly lenient. Which you know, is coming from a guy who hoards things religiously, towards someone whose guts he’s supposed to hate. Techno’s inability to properly regulate his attachments- keeping a cold facade while bouncing between incredibly polarizing apathy or absolute ride-and-die devotion, is literally one of Techno’s most reoccurring struggles and character flaws. A character flaw, which if Techno did not have, he would cease to be a character with any sort of dynamic struggle within him.

And finally it brings the audience into conflict with Techno, which is actually a good thing. We loose interest in characters we completely understand, and we loose interest in characters when we know exactly the direction they are going in. People who are saying “How could Techno say that when early he’d said he’d have given the world for Tommy??” Is EXACTLY the question the writers want you to be asking. 

Anyway !! To sum up!!! For technoblade, as a writer (not a character!! as a writer!!) his main concern is not portraying a character who is in the right, has the correct beliefs, or is justified in his actions. I’d argue its also NOT portraying a character who is in the wrong, has wrong beliefs, or is completely unjust.His main goal is portraying an interesting character. Through which cc!Techno’s main tool is almost always conflict! 

The narrative’s goal is usually not to portray good people, or to punish people for what they deserve. It’s main purpose is not to teach us what’s right and wrong (though that is an incredibly interesting side of effect of some stories!) The main goal of most stories is to be interesting, create conflict, and explore hypothetical scenarios.

(Which, if you notice- is true of a lot of the CCs who come from a storytelling background! IE Wilbur, Tommy, etc).

I mean, the dude’s into Greek mythology. Greek mythology is like the absolute king of “maybe heroic but mostly asshole” main characters lol. 

Anyway!! That got a bit long! But that’s the idea : ) of course, anyone’s welcome to interpret or enjoy the story in anyway they like! And feelings are feelings. But the fandom idea that a character’s purpose is to be a role model misses the point (and often, a lot of the enjoyment) of writing. 

[littlefoxwithbighat]

Hi! This is talking about the plot of the dream smp in a meta sense and its a bit negative. The person behind this blog wants to remind you that you can skip if it's not for you and they still love the SMP. :)

ALL DISCUSSION IS ABOUT CHARACTERS. DON'T ATTACK CCS OR I WILL STEAL YOUR KNEECAPS.

I can't lie; I'm really annoyed and worried at the way the writers are handling Tommys character at the moment, and am increasingly concerned about it messing up the plot.

I wasn't very happy with the finale. I don't think that means all is lost, I think they can pull it back but it's going to take some work. I was worried about the way that things were handled before but the green festival was actually very well handled, so my worries were mostly assuaged. But yesterday? I don't know.

The fact nobody lost a cannon death is kind of disappointing. The weight of blowing up an entire city/ (country?) brutally is somewhat lost if there is no human loss. Nobody was hurt physically and the only people this had a big mental impact on was Tommy and Tubbo, everyone else wasn't very attached to L'manburg or had gone rogue, or were detatched from the while situation. And maybe it's the fact it's happened to them before or that they still have each other or that it seems odd/ frustrating that they still care so much about this place or that it was always a losing battle and they knew it, but I dont find myself really pitying them like I probably should. And I think that comes down to character growth or lack thereof, which I'll discuss later.

Niki and Fundy have started a villain arc, or at least a violent nihilism arc, and I actually don't mind it, in fact I'm a fan but it wasnt really foreshadowed, or really just showing them cracking as much as it should have been. I would guess this has mostly been started for both of them to tie Niki into the plot and I can't blame her for wanting that. Fundys acting is very good, and I REALLY hope the writers handle this well. For Fundy, regarding the fact that his father is going to be resurrected and that Fundy is following in his footsteps... If the writers don't realise that connection and make this a big step in Fundys narrative I will scream. Also Funboo bros are very interesting character foils and I hope their relationship is maintained so that they can play of off each other and also man I just really want them to keep being friends, it's a generally positive healthy relationship that makes both characters sympathetic and we need that right now. As for Niki, her character motivations seem to be mostly centered around Tommy and on the one hand I'm like ehhhh, because Tommy's character already gets a disproportionate amount of attention in terms of narrative, and I get it, but recently he's been a bit TOO much of the protagonist for a multi-person POV improve server... and I'm apprehensive. However on the other hand this has potential for a nice confrontation between Tommy and Niki. If that happens I want Tommy to be aware that this is going to happen and not talk over Niki, and I don't want it to be brushed over. I think it would be best if it was just the two of them. This also gives a nice chance for Tommy to examine his trauma with Dream and explain his motivations and Niki to get her anger out. I also want it to end positively, because it absolutely can and lack of communication when the viewer knows how to fix it is OK as a plot device sometimes but incredibly frustrating if it keeps happening (cough, Tommy and Techno).

Ranboo is reacting to the plot amazingly and I have as usual only praise for him, go, you funky enderman boy, go.

Wilbur is getting resurrected which is a thousand percent because Will wants the plot back and honestly I don't really mind, I think he'll do a good job. However I really hope he speaks to everybody about their characters, particularly Fundy, Ranboo and Niki because I don't want their characterisation and arcs to be thrown away.

Tubbo is doing very well, and I don't have many complaints to be honest. I hope he continues to get in with the acting with no shame, because he's an amazing VA when he wants to be, but sometimes he undercuts serious moments a little too much by laughing. Same criticism for Phil actually. But both are doing good.

On the theme of that, while I don't mind tension relievers or humour in serious moments there are sometimes too many. It was a lot worse about a month back and it was improving, but it seems to be creeping back in and ehhh. It's kind of Marvel-esque and not in a good way? I think it has a lot to do with bloopers and for some reason there are loads at the moment? Like Wilburs arc had almost none and this arc there's at least 2 every moment. Which isn't always their fault but maybe they need to take more steps to prevent them.

Techno is doing OK, he's quite a meta character so I'm not too mad about him undercutting serious moments but sometimes he does do it too much or in the wrong place. Like making jokes about Connor completely over the top of Tommy and Tubbos reunion, you know an event which has been foreshadowed for yoinks, prevented them from getting a proper flow going and kind of ruined it. And that made the reunion really dissapointing, which is a shame because it could have been so cool. However his characterisation is consistent and dedicated, his goals and relationships are clear and he's getting humanised more which is nice, and his monologues are great. I'm curious to see what he does now NL'M is gone but I have total faith in him.

Now Tommy. Oh Tommy. His character is such a mess at the moment, which is a shame because there were moments I saw people doubting his character choices and I was behind him.

Firstly the relationship with Techno fell apart. That was inevitable. Tommy didn't care about anarchy and Techno didn't care about the discs and both of their goals would impede the others. But the way Tommy talks about Techno is so... No? And now I understand that Tommy is going to have a biased perspective on the whole situation, and that's fine and good, but his character is so wrong about Techno it feels weird and painful? Like even from his perspective it went down differently to how he talks about it. They don't listen to each other and it's like watching two people scream at a wall.

The issue is the relationship was fairly well developed. I struggle to see Tommy saying he saw Techno as a friend but Techno never saw him as a friend because hold on, what? Techno, here's a respiration helmet because of that one of thing you told me about your trauma, a disc because those make you happy, plus top tier armour and weaponry, plus I'm going to spend time with you, calm you down from panic attacks, hide you and protect you from Dream, let you wander around L'manburg and achieve your own goals and help you plan things out Techno and Tommy didn't get ANYTHING from that? Plus after Techno opens up about his goals and his trauma, do the one thing that would hurt him the most, (use and then betray him) and then directly oppose his goals after he helped me? Ugh. It just leaves a bad taste in my mouth. I know he would never let Tubbo get hurt and thats fine, but there were ways around that. If you're framing this character as the protagonist, then he needs to be sympathetic or at least grow and Tommy using Techno again without remorse and then refusing to listen to his perspective or show any gratitude for anything makes it difficult for viewers to empathise with him in my opinion. Have him betray Techno and then listen to Techno when he explains why Tommys betrayal hurt him and apologise, fine. Have him listen to Techno and try and find a way to keep Tubbo safe regardless, fine. Have him betray Techno but apologetically and still trying to avoid Techo getting crushed or killed, fine. But THIS? Im sympathetic towards Tommys character but this throws away so much potential character development for Tommy, where at least he saw Techno as a person, and not only that but a nice person who despite everything has set aside everything to help him? And then for him to be exactly where he was at the end of season 1, both literally, and emotionally ? I understand this is a child soldier with trauma but this is supposed to be our protagonist and if he doesn't grow, and isn't sympathetic and destroys someone we care about, how can we root for him?

Now all of this could be forgivable, not great, but forgivable, if Tommy had moved on from the discs. The Goddamn Discs™. And the worse part is all the dominoes were lined up to suggest he had! We had his moment of "he watched me" where he realised Dream was the villain and controlling him, "I've become worse than everyone I hated" good, amazing, I see where this is going, "The discs were worth more than you ever were!" and then he retracts and apologises and you think horray! Tommy has realised the discs were being used to control him and if he doesn't care about them, they hold no value! Now he's going to realise that his friends are more important and he's going to stop going after the discs. His new character motivation can be killing Dream and protecting his friends, especially Tubbo. It's clearly angled this way, and this way the plot progresses and Tommy with it. What marvellous character development. Look at him go.

And THEN, after everything that's happened he says the most important thing is the disc and I want them back!?!? EH !!? Why... Who... Who gave the OK on that writing decision? That's so static and boring and unsympathetic! And then he's back to asking people do fight for L'manburg? What?

I'll be honest I was kind go hoping either Tommy or Tubbo would die with L'manburg. I didn't mind it they didn't, there are a thousand ways to make the plot work without them dying, but this was not a great one.

PLEASE let Tommy have some growth. Yes he's had some from not caring about L'manburg to fighting for it in season one, but that was ages ago and he doesnt seem to have changed since then in any way that really counts. And I know this is harsh and he's traumatised but you have to understand I am talking about this in a sense of characters and narrative and NOT in terms of real life. Tommy needs to be better and dynamic because he is a charcacter and I want him to be a good one.

Having said all that, here are my thoughts on the future of the SMP.

Firstly, I am worried that becuse it is such a good source of content, especially for Tommy that they will never ever kill his character and leave him fighting with Dream for eternity. And I love the Dream SMP but I've seen stories that get dragged out for plot or content, and however much you think you want it to never end, let me tell you, yes you do. It will get stale and repetitive and I want the dream smp, or at least Tommys arc to go out with a beautiful and brilliant and fabulous plot ending instead of being dragged into the dirt. And then maybe new characters take the spotlight. Just please god give it a goode ending.

I also really hope they don't throw other things away to make Tommy the centre of attention, especially if it's destructive to the plot, or kind of weird and obnoxious.

Secondly, I am intrigued about the prison and Schlatts book to Dream and Technos favour and the egg and what that entails and I hope they really think through those plot points carefully and make them work, and don't forget them or throw them away.

Thirdly, I am intrigued for Wilburs return and hope that he manages to fix it cohesively without too crazy a change of pace and style and keeping characters (especially Ranboo and Fundy and Niki) consistent.

I hope they prep for the future and think things thought and communicate with each other.

It might be interesting to see other countries finally discussed but I don't know how much that would intefere with other plot points so we'll see.

That's all! Reminder that this is about characters and plot and this is just a few criticisms. I love the dream smp, but there are somethings I wanted to get of my chest. Please be respectful and feel free to discuss in the notes. Also, again, no hate to any CCs!