#jean discourse

[dotssu3]

jean vicquemare edit

[ffverr]

On the discourse (that somehow still exists) of why the X-Men are feared and hated but other genetically modified heroes like the Fantastic Four or some of the Avengers aren't :

I still see this argument online that some people, usually not X-Men fans, pull out in a sort of gotcha moment. To kind of stick it to Marvel for being unrealistic or to vouch for the fearing of other heroes in the marvel universe to tip the scales.

There are two points for the "why is *random x-men* oppressed and not *random marvel hero*" discourse that people are always intentionally missing.

One- A base of mutant fear and repression is the argument that "it could happen to your children too". It could happen to ANYONE, from birth, and there is nothing you can do about it. No being careful of scientific experiences can stop your close ones from becoming a mutant. (Kind of like people are okay with gay celebrities as long as they're doing their thing from afar but it's a threat when it comes to their children/Friends/family being gay)

They layed it on thick with this amazing advertisment back in the day: "do you know what your children are"??? I mean come on it's not rocket science

Fun fact, the kid labeled "mutie" here is actually Franklin Richards, son of Mister Fantastic and Invisible woman. He used to be a mutant and this goes to show how somehow johnny storm can be beloved but his super powered nephew doesn't get the same treatment.

Two- Spider-Man, the F4, the Avengers etc... All these heros who get some powers by some incident. They're supposed to be rare and few in between. The fear of mutants mainly comes from the fact that they started popping up in the MILLIONS. A mutant isn't necessarly seen as an honorable individual that acquires powers and realises they have the responsibility to use it for good. To humans, they're millions of people (or at least hundreds of thousands) that are, just by existing, threatening the status quo of humanity. They are changing the natural dominance of humans for good.

So of course humans love the F4 (usually). Because they're not scared to be replaced by them in their day to day life, however they are scared to be rendered obsolete by mutants. When humans look at the F4 they see brave selfless HUMAN heroes. They relate to them, they identify with them. They're a sweet family dedicated to the world's safety. In contrast, the mutants represent a world changing threat that truly shifts the balance. And that's not comfy at all no matter how cute or harmless the power is.

This difference can even cause very understandable tension in between the X-men and other super powered groups:

In short, the mutant moral panic comes from the fact that for exemple:

-humans are afraid to loose their jobs to super powered level talents.

-humans are scared from groups of super powered people that could threaten their safety.

-Governments are scared of these groups being the equivalent of entire armies concentrated in a single individual.

- They're scared that their children could turn into something unimaginable once they hit puberty

-And some just hate the idea of being manipulated by a random telepath on the street without ever knowing.

In contrast of Spider-Man, humans feel like nature is done with homo sapiens and THAT'S what brings hate and fear.

That's why everytime a mutant hate crime happens in the comics, it's always accompanied by some human saying "y'think you're better than us weirdo".

+ Contrary to the avengers, mutants also claim a culture, a shared history and common experiences between thousands. This binds them together in a way they doesn't necessarly make them identify with humans. And this is overall irritating and scary to humans.

Also, religious fear-mongering of mutants is rampant!!! It does a ton to set appart the mutants from the scientifically modified heros of the marvel universe.

In the end, one of the best comic to portray this whole thing is still God loves man Kills.

It depicts a villain, Striker, that gains popularity by spreading religious propaganda to justify mutant hate. In an emotional and shocking twist, we come to find that Striker has had a mutant son, that he killed with his own hand because he was a "monster".

You can understand how Captain America, with his super body, doesn't really evoke the same existential dread. Bigotry isn't rational, but also, a shit ton of things complicate the mutant's inclusion into society that doesn't necessarly parallel perfectly with real world struggles so that's also to take into consideration.

[joanofexys]

pssst friendly reminder that the only canon label we have for Neil's sexuality is demi (aspec) and that he's otherwise unlabeled. hc what you want but stop trying to push it as canon or putting it over his only canon label.

i'm tired of seeing y'all erase aspecness as a valid sexuality and always feeling the need to pair it with another identity as if aspec people aren't valid just identifying as aspec and also erasing us from the conversation entirely

[lieutenantism]

a very interesting (and endearing, at least to me) detail about jean's character is how he tends to fix himself during a confrontation. (long post ahead)

despite the fact he looks just fine, he does it to self-soothe more than anything, because he knows he has no control over the situation. so if he can't get through harry, at least he's in control of how he looks. and he can look BETTER, more put together than harry, so he makes sure to show him that. every time.

constantly readjusting, correcting, dusting himself off every time he's confronting his former partner because i think he has a severe inferiority complex (since harry outranks him and refuses to accept any promotion, which makes jean perpetually stuck as a satellite-officer, tied to a self-destructive man who's also good at what he does + harry has had a chance at a love that's so redeeming that he pictures her as the game's equivalent of God, a love that jean desperately yearns for so he hates harry for blowing it, and hates himself for never finding such a love despite the fact he's more put together than harry, or so he claims) that flares up every time harry's in the vicinity. i don't think jean has problems asserting himself when harry's not around, though. we've seen that here.

jean's perfectly capable of being authoritative, and has power over his colleagues, contrary to popular belief on this website. of course, provided harry's not there.

because he'll start slipping every time. his body language is also incredibly stiff, i'm assuming it's to seem like he's composed, but that falls apart when you notice how many times he struggles with his breathing, how many times he has to collect himself.

naturally, since kim also outranks him, jean behaves the same way with him although less emotional. he loses the spite, turns a little more submissive, though his pride doesn't completely disappear, like authority indicates. i also believe it's because kim didn't address him properly, therefore jean didn't feel the need to extend more than basic respect towards him.

it's very interesting to see, since he seems to have this ongoing inner conflict between his pride and his self-hatred. believing he's better than harry, yet crumbling at his presence. laying down and taking it, then suddenly revolting. being in control until the reason you're forced to take control shows up, then suddenly you're not in control anymore and you have to fix your hair and your tie and dust your suit and cough to look like you have your shit together. to prove that you're better. jean's trying to tell harry that he's BETTER than him! that's why he does all of that shit! he's terrified of ending up like that! he's even more terrified of the fact that despite being the mess he is, harry IS better than him! HELLO!

[miraculouslumination]

You know sometimes it just hits you that so much of queer "discourse" is basically one group of queer people trying to cultivate a subcommunity for themselves and their identity while another group of queer people cry and scream about how that group, who is just trying to exist and have their own bubble, is the cause of all their own group's problems

[rei-ismyname]

Storm used to get naked a lot

Magneto definitely has the longevity (pun intended) when it comes to on-panel nudity or semi-nudity, but Storm had many moments early in her publication history. They're pretty racist, tbh, the implication being that an African person wouldn't have the same understanding of the social contract dictating 'don't be naked in public.'

This one isn't public but it's got a similar vibe of otherness. 'Imagine myself back in Kenya.' As an aside, my disability makes showering a lengthy trial. I'd love to be able to do this.

Jean is Living with Misty Knight and keeping her Marvel Girl identity secret, so she asks Ororo to change out of her X-Men uniform. There's a flash of lightning? Cool trick, but yeah she's butt nekkid and Jean is aghast/horny/who knows? Ororo is like 'We all good?' and Jean nearly chokes on her drink (sure ;) It's not really explained, but I feel like it's meant to be read as 'African woman doesn't understand nudity taboo.' An excellent what if? would be 'What if Storm's nudist/body positivity became an X-Men thing?' I think it'd be good for everyone who consents, though it'd make it a lot harder to run a school.

This one is forced as hell. Nightcrawler realises Storm is swimming naked in the pool, and tries to hurry everyone inside so nobody sees her. If I'm being generous he means well, but it's still a little uncomfortable. Not pictured - Kurt talking to Storm; Storm giving a fuck. Because he loudly told everyone to get inside, Storm does too (why wouldn't she?)

Nightcrawler - 'Too late.'

Colossus - 'By The White Wolf?!?'

Banshee - 'Oh dear.'

Wolverine - 'Nice tits, darlin.' (paraphrased, lol. The look on his face tho )

She doesn't understand what the hell these weirdos are on about, and complies with Piotr's suggestion that she wear his shirt 'if you insist.' (Boo, double standard. Free the nipple!)

Ororo still doesn't understand, so Xavier (who's been listening? Watching? telepathically takes what's barely subtext and makes it text.

'What may be customary in your land is not in this one.' Yikes. Ororo spent a lot of her youth in various parts of Africa, but her childhood proper was spent in New York AFAIK. She's a US citizen This is her land. I consulted a bunch of African friends who've been to Africa and have family there - Nudity is not common in their experience. Same rules as most places. It's a very stereotypical portrayal of backwards Africa - as if it's a homogenous country and not a massive continent.

He continues 'For the sake of group harmony, I suggest in future you use more... discretion.' I wonder what word he was going to use instead of discretion. Professor X is the undisputed patriarch here, so naturally the most patriarchal stuff comes from him (especially in the 60s/70s.) I'd actually love this to be revisited and have it be revealed that she just likes being naked and it has nothing to do with her being from Africa. Maybe with a lightning bolt upside his bald head. Aside from the scene where Xavier recruits her, I don't think there's any Ororo naked in Africa scenes - she understands the concept of clothes. Ugh.

She was just trying to swim, it was these bozos making a big deal of it. It's also just plain weird that this came up multiple times with multiple writers. Same editor, though I think. Expecting progressiveness from Liberal Marvel is folly, but this just feels like policing women's bodies, and a black woman repeatedly in the same way. 'Stop ogling and objectifying the poor woman,' would be much more appropriate.

[sunriseabram]

Yes. Riko was an abuser. Nobody can deny that he hurt, sexually abused and tormented people physically and emotionally.

Yes. Riko was abused. He was hit by Tetsuji when he got things wrong, conditioned to believe that he had to be the best or his life wasn't worth living. He was abandoned by his father because he was second born, ignored by his big brother, and not even congratulated after he tried everything to gain their approval.

Yes. He hurt Jean out of anger. He used Jean as an object because that is all he had ever been to his father and family. He was a way to make money, but his father never saw him as anything more than that. It allowed him to feel powerful and in control of someone when everything else in his life was out of his control.

Yes. He flips after his father dies. Of course, he does. When you've worked your entire life to be acknowledged, spending thousands upon thousands of hours training to win, winning trophies, doing sponsorships, raising great chunks of money for the family, only for your father to die before even showing an ounce of pride for you? Of course, he flips. Jean just happens to be there, someone he knows he can hurt and get away with. Someone less than him at the bottom of the food chain. Perhaps the only person who sees the anger for what it truly is: failure. And Riko doesn't like that.

Yes. He hurt Kevin out of jealousy. Riko grew up in a world where failure was unacceptable. Failure meant pain, death and suffering. Exy was all Riko had and all he ever had. He couldn't stand to be second best because second best is all he had ever been. He would not be second in the one thing he was meant to be the king of. He hurt Kevin out of jealousy, and was beaten to an inch of his life for it.

Yes. He grew up sheltered. Riko was groomed to be a star by Tetsuji. He was groomed and exploited for money by the only person who had ever looked at him and seen something. He lost his mother. His father didn't care about him. He had nobody. He lived underground in the nest for most of his life and played exy every single day for most of his childhood. He probably had no friends his own age until Kevin came along. There was nobody who understood what Riko was going through.

Yes. Riko hurt Andrew. He had Andrew hurt as another power trip. It was to show he had great power and could do what he wanted with it. He had no boundaries. Throughout the series, Riko is shown to be insecure. He craves power and acknowledgement and wants to prove he has a place in the mafia family next to his brother.

Yes. Riko is more complex than a simple villain. He is self-destructive and works to the bone to try and be worth something. He uses anger to cover up his blatant abandonment issues. He is never and will never be enough. And if he can't be enough, then nobody else can. Nobody can take his place.

He is scared of Kevin, frightened of Neil, terrified of Andrew. He is constantly trying to stop his precarious tower from tumbling in the only way he knows how.

If all his mistakes were punished with pain, disappointment and anger, how can he know any different? He doesn't know the world really and hasn't experienced it outside his little box of stardom. He doesn't know what is 'normal.' For him, failing means getting beaten. Failure means losing his status. Failing means falling from power. It always has.

No. Just because Riko was abused and groomed does not mean that his abusive behaviours were justified. He chose to become an abuser, despite everything he had suffered.

No. He wasn't born evil. He is horrible - don't get me wrong - but he shouldn't just be cast off as coming out of the womb with horns and a tail. He was shaped by his experiences, negative and positive. We all are.

Riko thought beating people into submission would show his power and prove his worth to his family. In the end, it resulted in his downfall.

[torchickentacos]

i will always shout praises of bi4bi but given recent discourse I feel the need to say that I love bi4het too! I just love bisexuality in general in its many forms, and anyone who only likes it when it's 'queer enough' for them is biphobic. Bisexuals should be able to bring their LaMe CiShEt BoYfRiEnD to pride without being made to feel like spectators and outsiders to their own event.

[esorydoolb]

(derogatory) (affectionately)

sorry has this been done yet?

[muscatos]

The symbolism of numbers in All For The Game

Although numbers generally play a large role in the progression of AFTG, such as the importance of dates or Neil's countdown to his kidnapping in Baltimore, there are a few standout instances, rich with symbolism, that tend to go unnoticed.

4: The number four is deemed unlucky in japan, so much so that it’s often skipped when creating hospital rooms due to the intense negative stigma, this is because the number quite literally translates to death; a fact that definitely wouldn’t go unnoticed by Riko. The idea that Neil was quite literally branded with death and his life only officially beginning as Neil Josten once the 4 was removed after Baltimore therefore signifying his freedom. This number being removed by the thing supposed to kill him no-less is a twisted form of irony, leaving scarring to forever remind him of this near-death experience and the final run-in with his father, A man being the literal personification of Death in Neil’s eyes.

13: thirteen is presented as Andrew lucky number, with Betsy being Andrew 13th therapist, finally leaving the Spear household at 13 as well as moving in with Aaron being his 13th and final household. Andrew and Neil’s jersey numbers add up to 13 also, suggesting the idea of the two are inherently parallels of one another, destined to meet. This plays on 13 inherently being an unlucky number, creating a contrast to defy expectations; as per the norm with Andrews character of whom revolves around defying boundaries and breaking stereotypes.

3: Andrew's jersey number, three, is deemed as lucky in Japanese culture along with 4, representing culture, time (past, present, future) and the three elements of the mind, body, and spirit being connected. This idea accurately represents both Andrew and Jean through the number; both of which seeming to be the most effected by lost time and have the most growth by the last books in this respect, with Andrew and Jean having more security in their futures and a willingness to discuss it, (a particular struggle to both as their futures were deemed uncertain, with Jean committing suicide in all drafts of the books but the final one, and Andrew refusing to discuss the future or 'live' for himself.) along with finally having a connection between their mind and body, both of whom have historically been known to have their bodies not belong to themselves, manipulated and forced to stay in such a situation for the benefit of others (jean in the nest, Andrew in the spears,) the escape of this toxic cycle, both the mental scars in Andrew case and physical ones in Jeans, represent the lucky nature of the number and their future.

[dotssu3]

he works out like he's got the devil on his back

[jkftkth]

taehyung's always labeled as the rebellious one but i think people overlook jungkook and underestimate all the times he's stood his ground no matter what. huge respect to both of them for doing what they can

jungkook’s solo era was him speaking his mind quite often. to be enlisted right now but still show up in his own way suggests the level of empathy he’s feeling for those young girls right now. he definitely is aware of the impact he could make, and he took the chance.

my respect and love for him increased by x1000000000

[remcocoa]

some coloquick-era jonas

[detectivebambam]

can we stop pretending that Riko didn't torture Jean for shits and giggles? like literally he stopped doing certain things because Jean stopped fighting back and it "wasn't fun anymore". after this post I'm gonna stay out of it (maybe) and go back to Andrew content, but it's absolutely wild to me that you can say "Riko was an abusive asshole" and people will argue with you about it

(check tags I'm lazy)

[philosophybits]

The first man who, having enclosed a piece of ground, bethought himself of saying “this is mine”, and found people simple enough to believe him, was the real founder of civil society. From how many crimes, wars, and murders, from how many horrors and misfortunes might not any one have saved mankind, by pulling up the stakes, or filling up the ditch, and crying to his fellows: “Beware of listening to this impostor; you are undone if you once forget that the fruits of the earth belong to us all, and the earth itself to nobody.”

Jean-Jacques Rousseau, Discourse on Inequality