#jean discourse

[dotssu3]

jean vicquemare edit

[dayurno]

i really think about it all the time like people do not afford thea the status of a victim at ALL. even people who defend her it's just never brought up when people talk about her in relation to jean/kevin that thea wasn't just brainwashed, she was also physically abused and undermined and publicly humiliated and treated like a token at best and an object at worst. the way riko tells kevin to "just fuck her already" like she's not even a person, jean openly admiting that there was a raven who was so racist to her it became a notable problem, riko sneering when kevin mentioned he thought thea was pretty, the ravens giving jasmine, a white woman, the title thea begged and battled for and got constantly denied. the discussion with jean specifically seems very keen on thinking thea couldn't possibly know what sexual abuse is or feels like despite being one of the few women in the roster and the only black woman that we know of that's ever been part of the ravens. why do you think thea is incapable of being a victim? why do you think she couldn't possibly know what suffering is, unlike her white boy counterparts?

[appleflavoredkitkats]

as much as i enjoy a lot of the disco elysium fics out there, one thing i (and apparently a bunch others) noticed as a running trend is a lot of people get a lot of the socialist aspects of DE very wrong, especially when it comes to district 41 and harry's character.

i specifically dislike how many portrayals of district 41 is too... cop-ish. which, fair- much of the structure of the rcm is meant to mimic the actual police and comment on how being policemen can damage the humanity of a single person. we genuinely cannot ignore the aspects of police brutality present in DE.

but at the same time, did everyone just FORGET the lore-building focused on how some parts of the rcm come from descendants of revolutionaries? specifically in district 41, the conversation we see with captain pryce points to him checking if some members of district 41 are ready for another revolution? he, without a doubt, confirmed it for the characters we know, which speaks volumes on what torson, chester, jean, judit, and harry are like. we don't see this side of them often because they're busy tormenting harry (and i don't mean to say they're good cops either btw they're shit) but i do think there's more to them than what we've seen.

i WISH people could explore this more, especially for harry! the way he finds hope in the world despite everything. how it was important for him to escape that moralist mindset and become more compassionate for others, especially in the socialist routes. i want people to explore what it means for kim to enter this kind of arena as well, since he's more reluctant about these things (altho was still radicalized by harry) and yet he's entering a district with a revolutionary descendant.

idk! i need to replay DE for me to delve in deeper w the district but it still shocks me that the socialist parts of DE are forgotten or not looked into in DE fics that focus solely on the cop side of things... anyway if you have socialist/political de fics to recommend pls give them to me thanks

[javussyannihilator]

being in les mis fandom like

[applestorms]

is L even truly emo. he’s kind of just a weird little freak

[joejhang]

the way the aftg fandom babies and uwufies jean is insane. like they see a man with so much trauma and their first instinct is to infantilise him. like "oh no jean can't see jeremy get angry or break down!" girl he is a grown-ass adult. stop treating him like he's fragile or a child just because he's deeply hurt. god.

[problemduetest4life]

I’LL SAY IT! THE OBSESSION OVER JEREJEAN POSITIONS IS WEIRD AS HELL!

[ffverr]

On the discourse (that somehow still exists) of why the X-Men are feared and hated but other genetically modified heroes like the Fantastic Four or some of the Avengers aren't :

I still see this argument online that some people, usually not X-Men fans, pull out in a sort of gotcha moment. To kind of stick it to Marvel for being unrealistic or to vouch for the fearing of other heroes in the marvel universe to tip the scales.

There are two points for the "why is *random x-men* oppressed and not *random marvel hero*" discourse that people are always intentionally missing.

One- A base of mutant fear and repression is the argument that "it could happen to your children too". It could happen to ANYONE, from birth, and there is nothing you can do about it. No being careful of scientific experiences can stop your close ones from becoming a mutant. (Kind of like people are okay with gay celebrities as long as they're doing their thing from afar but it's a threat when it comes to their children/Friends/family being gay)

They layed it on thick with this amazing advertisment back in the day: "do you know what your children are"??? I mean come on it's not rocket science

Fun fact, the kid labeled "mutie" here is actually Franklin Richards, son of Mister Fantastic and Invisible woman. He used to be a mutant and this goes to show how somehow johnny storm can be beloved but his super powered nephew doesn't get the same treatment.

Two- Spider-Man, the F4, the Avengers etc... All these heros who get some powers by some incident. They're supposed to be rare and few in between. The fear of mutants mainly comes from the fact that they started popping up in the MILLIONS. A mutant isn't necessarly seen as an honorable individual that acquires powers and realises they have the responsibility to use it for good. To humans, they're millions of people (or at least hundreds of thousands) that are, just by existing, threatening the status quo of humanity. They are changing the natural dominance of humans for good.

So of course humans love the F4 (usually). Because they're not scared to be replaced by them in their day to day life, however they are scared to be rendered obsolete by mutants. When humans look at the F4 they see brave selfless HUMAN heroes. They relate to them, they identify with them. They're a sweet family dedicated to the world's safety. In contrast, the mutants represent a world changing threat that truly shifts the balance. And that's not comfy at all no matter how cute or harmless the power is.

This difference can even cause very understandable tension in between the X-men and other super powered groups:

In short, the mutant moral panic comes from the fact that for exemple:

-humans are afraid to loose their jobs to super powered level talents.

-humans are scared from groups of super powered people that could threaten their safety.

-Governments are scared of these groups being the equivalent of entire armies concentrated in a single individual.

- They're scared that their children could turn into something unimaginable once they hit puberty

-And some just hate the idea of being manipulated by a random telepath on the street without ever knowing.

In contrast of Spider-Man, humans feel like nature is done with homo sapiens and THAT'S what brings hate and fear.

That's why everytime a mutant hate crime happens in the comics, it's always accompanied by some human saying "y'think you're better than us weirdo".

+ Contrary to the avengers, mutants also claim a culture, a shared history and common experiences between thousands. This binds them together in a way they doesn't necessarly make them identify with humans. And this is overall irritating and scary to humans.

Also, religious fear-mongering of mutants is rampant!!! It does a ton to set appart the mutants from the scientifically modified heros of the marvel universe.

In the end, one of the best comic to portray this whole thing is still God loves man Kills.

It depicts a villain, Striker, that gains popularity by spreading religious propaganda to justify mutant hate. In an emotional and shocking twist, we come to find that Striker has had a mutant son, that he killed with his own hand because he was a "monster".

You can understand how Captain America, with his super body, doesn't really evoke the same existential dread. Bigotry isn't rational, but also, a shit ton of things complicate the mutant's inclusion into society that doesn't necessarly parallel perfectly with real world struggles so that's also to take into consideration.

[dotssu3]

he works out like he's got the devil on his back

[g0dhood]

noooo please let’s not have jean be bought from ichirou by jeremy he needs to stop seeing himself (and being seen) as property!!!!!! not the other way around 🙏🏻

[joanofexys]

pssst friendly reminder that the only canon label we have for Neil's sexuality is demi (aspec) and that he's otherwise unlabeled. hc what you want but stop trying to push it as canon or putting it over his only canon label.

i'm tired of seeing y'all erase aspecness as a valid sexuality and always feeling the need to pair it with another identity as if aspec people aren't valid just identifying as aspec and also erasing us from the conversation entirely

[okjii]

i think the statements of “most of thea muldanis hate stems from the fact that she is a complex black women and people generally cant handle that” and “people are allowed to be uncomfortable about her as a character right now as she is still developing and has done/said Weird Things” can and SHOULD coexist actually

[constelationprize]

genuine question but how is it possible to mischaracterize thea muldani when we don't really have a characterization for her? is it referring to when people hate on her for things that didn't happen?

Thea very much does have a characterization. It might not be very extense, or even particularly good, but it does exist. What we know from her in canon is the first trilogy is that she is Kevin's girlfriend he has been ghosting for a year, who is still stuck in the Raven mindset despite having graduated, and is the best backliner in the game being the youngest Court player in history – and yet, you will still see people spinning her being mad at Kevin in the scene she appears in as literal domestic abuse; treat her like a monster for not blindly believing information that has been kept from her and that goes against the cult brainwashing she went through for five years; and constantly passing Jean over her in terms of skill even though that is at least until now canonically untrue (and if the EC is any indication will probably remain so). In the scene where she appears in TSC, we see her as being one of the few people Jean has ever had a positive relationship with, who has gone out of her way to help him when she didn't have to and clearly holds affection for him still, and yet all people boil that interaction down to is a clearly misguided remark from a woman whose entire worldview started to crumble literally ten minutes ago, and who never had a reason to take things that happened to other people in the Nest beyond any face value because, again, she was also there dealing with her own shit. I swear to God, I once saw someone say that having a nickname for Jean that annoyed him was proof that she never cared for him as a person and just let him be abused.

[berdyayeva]

“people only like jv because he’s conventionally attractive” 1. barely applicable please ask anyone with visible scarring especially on their face how conventionally attractive they feel and how people treat them because of it 2. bad faith. dismissive. Just a dick move all in all. 3. Every jv enjoyer I’ve seen agrees on this: the only way he could be hotter is if he was FATTER

[sunriseabram]

Yes. Riko was an abuser. Nobody can deny that he hurt, sexually abused and tormented people physically and emotionally.

Yes. Riko was abused. He was hit by Tetsuji when he got things wrong, conditioned to believe that he had to be the best or his life wasn't worth living. He was abandoned by his father because he was second born, ignored by his big brother, and not even congratulated after he tried everything to gain their approval.

Yes. He hurt Jean out of anger. He used Jean as an object because that is all he had ever been to his father and family. He was a way to make money, but his father never saw him as anything more than that. It allowed him to feel powerful and in control of someone when everything else in his life was out of his control.

Yes. He flips after his father dies. Of course, he does. When you've worked your entire life to be acknowledged, spending thousands upon thousands of hours training to win, winning trophies, doing sponsorships, raising great chunks of money for the family, only for your father to die before even showing an ounce of pride for you? Of course, he flips. Jean just happens to be there, someone he knows he can hurt and get away with. Someone less than him at the bottom of the food chain. Perhaps the only person who sees the anger for what it truly is: failure. And Riko doesn't like that.

Yes. He hurt Kevin out of jealousy. Riko grew up in a world where failure was unacceptable. Failure meant pain, death and suffering. Exy was all Riko had and all he ever had. He couldn't stand to be second best because second best is all he had ever been. He would not be second in the one thing he was meant to be the king of. He hurt Kevin out of jealousy, and was beaten to an inch of his life for it.

Yes. He grew up sheltered. Riko was groomed to be a star by Tetsuji. He was groomed and exploited for money by the only person who had ever looked at him and seen something. He lost his mother. His father didn't care about him. He had nobody. He lived underground in the nest for most of his life and played exy every single day for most of his childhood. He probably had no friends his own age until Kevin came along. There was nobody who understood what Riko was going through.

Yes. Riko hurt Andrew. He had Andrew hurt as another power trip. It was to show he had great power and could do what he wanted with it. He had no boundaries. Throughout the series, Riko is shown to be insecure. He craves power and acknowledgement and wants to prove he has a place in the mafia family next to his brother.

Yes. Riko is more complex than a simple villain. He is self-destructive and works to the bone to try and be worth something. He uses anger to cover up his blatant abandonment issues. He is never and will never be enough. And if he can't be enough, then nobody else can. Nobody can take his place.

He is scared of Kevin, frightened of Neil, terrified of Andrew. He is constantly trying to stop his precarious tower from tumbling in the only way he knows how.

If all his mistakes were punished with pain, disappointment and anger, how can he know any different? He doesn't know the world really and hasn't experienced it outside his little box of stardom. He doesn't know what is 'normal.' For him, failing means getting beaten. Failure means losing his status. Failing means falling from power. It always has.

No. Just because Riko was abused and groomed does not mean that his abusive behaviours were justified. He chose to become an abuser, despite everything he had suffered.

No. He wasn't born evil. He is horrible - don't get me wrong - but he shouldn't just be cast off as coming out of the womb with horns and a tail. He was shaped by his experiences, negative and positive. We all are.

Riko thought beating people into submission would show his power and prove his worth to his family. In the end, it resulted in his downfall.