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chaoticwriting · 2 days ago

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FENTON CRIME FAMILY 4

-Wayne Manor, Gotham-

Damian straightens out his shirt a little as he stands in front of his siblings. He doesn't know why nor would he admit that he is a little nervous right now. They are currently at the theater room waiting for whatever Damian has prepared for them. Except for Dick and Jason, all of the siblings are here.

Tim: Would you explain to us already why you want us here?

Damian: Silence Drake. I am gathering my thoughts here.

Steph: Ugghhh, just tell us already. I am already close to cracking up Cass to confess who she is hanging out with.

Cass: No you aren't.

Steph: Yes, I am.

Duke: Umm, guys. I think Damian is ready.

Suddenly the lights turn off and the projector starts to show a slide show.

Damian: So, I thank each one of you for making time to come to this meeting today.

Tim:*Whispering* Oh wow, he must really need our help if he even thanks us for just being here.

Damian:*Glaring at Tim* As you all are aware, I am going out on an outing the day after tomorrow. Although I am sufficiently trained in proper dressing up, I would like to have a second or maybe third opinion.

Steph: You mean fifth opinion? Cause there are like 4 of us here.

Damian: It is a figure of speech, Brown. I'm sure you are not stupid enough to not know that.

Tim: I think he is trying to insult you but that sounds like a praise to me.

Duke: It's because you are a weirdo. How about we get back on track? So, what do you want our opinion on?

Damian turns the slide and a selection of clothes appears.

Damian: I need you to give me your opinion on which set of clothes are the most suitable for my outing.

Cass: What is the specific criteria for the selection?

Damian: I want the clothes to flesh out my features more.

Duke: As in making you look more handsome?

Damian: Yes.

Tim: Why do you need to look more handsome? I thought you are just going for some outing?

Steph: Shit! Don't you see it, Tim? He is going on a date. Look at those clothes. Those are the clothes that he only wears if there is a special occasion.

Duke: You are going on a date? With who? Does Bruce or Alfred know?

Damian: I already told Alfred about my outing. I am holding off on informing father of this event until there is any further progress. As for who, it is none of your concern.

Tim: Wait. Then why do you want our opinion on what you wear?

Damian: Because all of you have experience in relationships before. I would have invited Grayson if not for his fashion sense.

Duke: Fair warning, though. I am not good at these clothing things. It is usually Isabella that chooses my clothes.

Damian: Of course I know that. But given you are in a relationship with Ortiz for a long time already, I would assume her sense of fashion has already rubbed off a little on you.

Steph: Wait, so we are just gonna ignore that he is going on a date? Aren't any of you curious?

Tim: I already got her files. Name is Dani Fenton. 15. No school. Lives in the Bowery. Her sister is the therapist that Bruce is seeing. Has a brother. Her internet history is very clean. Like super duper clean. Almost tailored to make it seem like that.

Duke: Chances it is forged?

Tim: Likely. But I can't seem to find anything about her. Whether it is physical or online.

Cass: Are you sure she is safe?

Damian: Yes.

Steph: I'm not gonna stop you from romancing her but considering who you are the son of, we might need to prepare just in case.

Duke: Oh yeah. Hopefully she isn't anything like that. The last thing we need is another rogue in Gotham.

-Crime Alley-

Red Hood: So, why do you want to meet?

Spectre: I have information that you might want.

Spectre (Ellie) throws a file with a big red 'SECRET' on it onto the table. Red Hood picks it up and opens it.

As he flips through the pages, his breath becomes more ragged. His eyesight slowly turns more green and he could feel his blood pumping at a higher rate as his anger slowly builds up while reading the file.

Especially when he reads the part where they are part of the government. How dare the government do this? Not only are they killing people, they also label them as non living.

Red Hood: What do you want me to do with this information?

Spectre: It is up to you really. Since you are technically a hero, I decide to give this information to you first. However, do know that if you wish to take action, please do it quickly. A lot of "people" wish to have a piece of them.

After Spectre says that, she stands up from her chair and goes out of the room. Red Hood watches as the young gang leader leaves his office. Eyeing the file, he will call the Outlaw tomorrow. There is a government base to be blown up.

#danny phantom #dp x dc crossover #batfam #dpxdc #dc x dp #danny x cass #dead silent #cassandra cain #justice league #cass x danny

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glitter-stained · 3 days ago

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Damasio, The Trolley Problem and Batman: Under the Hood

Okay so @bestangelofall asked me to elaborate on what I meant by "Damasio's theories on emotions in moral decision-making add another level of depth to the analysis of UTH as a moral dilemma" and I thought this deserved its own post so let's talk about this.

So, idk where everyone is at here (philosophy was mandatory in highschool in my country but apparently that's not the case everywhere so i genuinely have no clue what's common knowledge here, i don't want to like state the obvious but also we should recap some stuff. Also if I'm mentioning a philosopher's or scientist's name without detailing, that means it's just a passing thought/recommendation if you want to read more on the topic.)

First thing first is I've seen said, about jason and the no killing rule, that "killing is always bad that's not up for debate". And I would like to say, that's factually untrue. Like, no matter which side of the debate you are on, there is very much a debate. Historically a big thing even. So if that's not something you're open to hear about, if you're convinced your position is the only correct one and even considering other options is wrong and/or a waste of time... I recommend stopping here, because this only going to make you upset, and you have better stuff to do with your life than getting upset over an essay. In any case please stay civil and remember that this post is not about me debating ethics with the whole bat-tumblr, it's me describing a debate other people have been voicing for a long time, explaining the position Damasio's neuropsychology and philosophy holds in this debate, and analyzing the ethics discussed in Batman: Under the Red Hood in that light. So while I might talk about my personal position in here (because I have an opinion in this debate), this isn't a philosophy post; this is a literature analysis that just so happens to exist within the context of a neuropsychological position on a philosophical debate. Do not try to convince me that my philosophy of ethics is wrong, because that's not the point, that's not what the post is about, I find it very frustrating and you will be blocked. I don't have the energy to defend my personal opinions against everybody who disagrees with me.

Now, let's start with Bruce. Bruce, in Under The Hood and wrt the no kill rule (not necessarily all of his ethics, i'm talking specifically about the no kill rule), is defending a deontological position. Deontology is a philosophy of ethics coined by christian🧷 18th century German philosopher Immanuel Kant. The philosophy of ethics asks this question: what does it mean to do a good action? And deontology answers "it means to do things following a set of principles". Basically Kant describes what are "absolute imperatives" which are rules that hold inherent moral values: some things are fundamentally wrong and others are bad. Batman's no-kill rule is thus a categorical imperative: "Though Shall not Kill"��, it is always wrong to kill. (Note that I am not saying Bruce is kantian just because he has a deontology: Kant explained the concept of deontological ethics, and then went up to theorize his own very specific and odd brand of deontology, which banned anything that if generalized would cause the collapse of society as well as, inexplicably, masturbation. Bruce is not Kantian, he's just, regarding the no kill rule, deontological. Batman is still allowed to wank, don't worry.)

In this debate, deontological ethics are often pit up against teleological ethics, the most famous group of which being consequentialism, the most famous of consequentialisms being utilitarism. As the name indicates, consequentialist theories posit that the intended consequences of your actions determine if those actions were good or not. Utilitarism claims that to do good, your actions should aim to maximise happiness for the most people possible. So Jason, when he says "one should kill the Joker to prevent the thousands of victims he is going to harm if one does not kill him", is holding a utilitarian position.

The debate between deontology and utilitarism has held many forms, some fantastical and some with more realistic approaches to real life like "say you're hiding from soldiers and you're holding a baby that's gonna start crying, alerting the soldiers and getting everyone in your hideout massacred. Do you muffle the baby, knowing it will suffocate and kill it?" or "say there's a plague going on and people are dying and the hospital does not have enough ventilators, do you take the one off of the comatose patient with under 0.01% chance of ever waking up to give it to another patient? What about 1%?", etc, etc. The most famous derivative of this dilemma, of course, being the infamous trolley problem.

This is what is meant when we say "the UTH confrontation is a trolley problem." The final confrontation at the warehouse is a variation, a derivative of the utilitarian dilemma that goes as follows: "if someone was trying to kill someone in front of you, and that murder would prevent the murder of thousands, should you try to stop that murder or let it happen?"

Now, here's a question: why are there so many derivatives of the trolley problem? Why do philosophers spend time pondering different versions of the same question instead of solving it?

My opinion (and the one of much, much smarter people whose name i forgot oops) is that both systems fail at giving us a satisfying, clean-cut reply. Now, most people have a clean-cut answer to the trolley problem as presented here: me personally, I lean more towards utilitarianism, and I found it logical to pull the lever. But altering the exact situation makes me change my answer, and there is very often a point where people, no matter their deontological or utilitarian velleities, change their answer. And that's interesting to examine.

So let's talk about deontology. Now my first gripe with deontology it's that it posits a set of rules as absolute and I find that often quite arbitrary. 🧷 Like, it feels a little like mathematical axioms, you know? We build a whole worldview on the assumption that these rules are inherently correct and the best configuration because it feels like it makes sense, and accidentally close our mind to the world of non-euclidian ethics. In practice, here are some situations in which a deontologist might change their mind: self-defense killing, for example, is often cited as "an exception to the rule", making that rule de facto non-universal; and disqualifying it as an absolute imperative. Strangely enough, people will often try to solve the trolley problem by deciding to kill themselves by jumping on the tracks 🧷 which is actually a utilitarian solution: whether you're pulling the lever or you're jumping on the tracks, you are choosing to kill one person to stop the people from being run over. Why does it matter if it's you or someone else you're killing? You're still killing someone. Another situation where people may change their answer would be, like "what if you needed to save your children but to do so you had to kill the ceo of united healthcare?" Note that these are only examples for killing, but the biggest issue is that deontology preaches actions are always either good or wrong, and the issue with that lack of nuance is best illustrated with the kantian problem regarding the morality of lying: let's say it's the holocaust and a family of jews is hiding in your house. Let's say a nazi knocks on your door and asks if there are people hiding in your house. You know if you tell the truth, the jews in your house will be deported. In that situation, is it morally correct to lie? Now, Kant lived before the Holocaust, but in his time there was a similar version of this problem that had been verbalised (this formulation is the best-known derivative of this problem btw, I didn't invent it) and Kant's answer, I kid you not, was still "no it is not morally acceptable to lie in that situation".

And of course, there are variations of that problem that play with the definition of killing- what defines the act of killing and can the other circumstances (like if there's a person you need to save) alter that definition? => Conclusion: there is a lot more nuance to moral actions than what a purely deontological frame claims, and pushing deontology to its limits leads to situations that would feel absurd to us.

Now let's take utilitarianism to its own limits. Say you live in a world where healthcare has never been better. Now say this system is so because there is a whole small caste of people who have been cloned and genetically optimized and conditioned since birth so that their organs could be harvested at any given moment to heal someone. Let's say this system is so performant it has optimised this world's humanity's general well-being and health, leading to an undeniable, unparalleled positive net-worth for humanity. Here's the question: is this world a utopia or a dystopia? Aka, is raising a caste of people as organ cattle morally acceptable in that situation? (Note: Because people's limits on utilitarianism vary greatly from one person to another, I chose the most extreme example I could remember, but of course there are far more nuanced ones. Again, I wasn't the one to come up with this example. If you're looking for examples of this in fiction, i think the limits of utilitarianism are explored pretty interestingly in the videogame The Last of Us).

=> Conclusion: there is a lot more nuance to moral actions than what a purely utilitarian frame claims, and pushing utilitarism to its limits leads to situations that would feel absurd to us.

This leads us back to Under the Hood. Now because UTH includes a scathing criticism of Batman's no kill rule deontology, but Jason is also presented as a villain in this one, my analysis of the whole comic is based on the confrontation between both of these philosophies and their failures, culminating in a trolley dilemma type situation. So this is why it makes sense to have Bruce get mad at Jason for killing Captain Nazi in self-defense: rejecting self-defense, even against nazis, is the logical absurd conclusion of deontology. Winick is simply taking Bruce's no-kill rule to the limit.

And that's part of what gets me about Jason killing goons (aside from the willis todd thing that should definitely have been addressed in such a plot point.) It's that it feels to me like Jason's philosophy is presented as wrong because it leads to unacceptable decisions, but killing goons is not the logical absurd conclusion of utilitarianism. It's a. a side-effect of Jason's plot against Bruce and/or, depending on how charitable you are to either Jason's intelligence or his morals, b. a miscalculation. Assuming Jason's actions in killing goons are a reflection of his moral code (which is already a great assumption, because people not following their own morals is actually the norm, we are not paragons of virtue), then this means that 1) he has calculated that those goons dying would induce an increase in general global human happiness and thus 2) based on this premise, he follows the utilitarian framework and thus believes it's moral to kill the goons. It's the association of (1) and (2) that leads to an absurd and blatantly immoral consequence, but since the premise (1) is a clear miscalculation, the fact that (1) & (2) leads to something wrong does not count as a valid criticism of (2): to put it differently, since the premise is wrong, the conclusion being wrong does not give me any additional info on the value of the reasoning. This is a little like saying "Since 1+ 3= 5 and 2+2=4, then 1+3+2+2 = 9". The conclusion is wrong, but because the first part (1+3=5) is false, the conclusion being wrong does not mean that the second part (2+2 =4) is wrong. So that's what frustrates me so much when people bring up Jason killing goons as a gotcha for criticizing his utilitarian philosophy, because it is not!! It looks like it from afar but it isn't, which is so frustrating because, as stated previously, there are indeed real limits to utilitarianism that could have been explored instead to truly level the moral playing field between Jason and Bruce.

Now that all of this is said and done, let's talk about what in utilitarianism and deontology makes them flawed and, you guessed it, talk some about neuropsychology (and how that leads to what's imo maybe the most interesting thing about the philosophy in Under the Hood.)

In Green Arrow (2001), in an arc also written by Judd Winick, Mia Dearden meets a tortured man who begs her to kill him to save Star City (which is being massacred), and she kills him, then starts to cry and begs Ollie for confirmation that this was the right thing to do. Does this make Mia a utilitarian? If so, then why did she doubt and cry? Is she instead a deontologist, who made a mistake?

In any case, the reason why Mia's decision was so difficult for her to make and live with, and the reason why all of these trolley-adjacent dilemmas are so hard, is pretty clear. Mia's actions were driven by fear and empathy. It's harder to tolerate sacrificing our own child to avoid killing, it's harder to decide to sacrifice a child than an adult, a world where people are raised to harvest their organs feels horrible because these are real humans we can have empathy towards and putting ourselves in their shoes is terrifying... So we have two "perfectly logical" rational systems toppled by our emotions. But which is wrong: should we try to shut down our empathy and emotions so as to always be righteous? Are they a parasite stopping us from being true moral beings?

Classically, we (at least in my culture in western civilization) have historically separated emotions from cognition (cognition being the domain of thought, reasoning, intelligence, etc.) Descartes, for example, was a philosopher who highlighted a dualist separation of emotion and rationality. For a long time this was the position in psychology, with even nowadays some people who think normal psychologists are for helping with emotions and neuropsychologists are for helping with cognition.(I will fight these people with a stick.) Anyway, that position was the predominant one in psychology up until Damasio (not the famous writer, the neuropsychologist) wrote a book named Descartes' Error. (A fundamental of neuropsychology and a classic that conjugates neurology, psychology and philosophy: what more could you ask for?)

Damasio's book's title speaks for itself: you cannot separate emotion from intelligence. For centuries we have considered emotions to be parasitic towards reasoning, (which even had implications on social themes and constructs through the centuries 📌): you're being emotional, you're letting emotions cloud your judgement, you're emotionally compromised, you're not thinking clearly... (Which is pretty pertinent to consider from the angle of A Death in the Family, because this is literally the reproach Bruce makes to Jason). Damasio based the book on the Damasio couple's (him and his wife) study of Phineas Gage, a very, very famous case of frontal syndrome (damage to the part of the brain just behind the forehead associated with executive functions issues, behavioural issues and emotional regulation). The couple's research on Gage lead Damasio, in his book, to this conclusion: emotions are as much of a part of reasoning and moral decision-making as "cold cognition" (non emotional functioning). Think of it differently: emotional intelligence is a skill. Emotions are tools. On an evolutionary level, it is good that we as people have this skill to try and figure out what others might think and do. That's useful. Of course, that doesn't mean that struggling with empathy makes you immoral, but we people who struggle with empathy have stories of moments where that issue has made us hurt someone's feelings on accident, and it made us sad, because we didn't want to hurt their feelings. On an evolutionary level (and this is where social Darwinism fundamentally fails) humanity has been able to evolve in group and in a transgenerational group (passing knowledge from our ancestors long after their death, belonging to a community spread over a time longer than our lifetime) thanks to social cognition (see Tomasello's position on the evolution of language for more detail on that), and emotions, and "emotional intelligence" is a fundamental part of how that great system works across the ages.

And that's what makes Batman: Under the Hood brilliant on that regard. If I have to make a hypothesis on the state of Winick's knowledge on that stuff, I would say I'm pretty sure he knew about the utilitarism vs deontology issue; much harder to say about the Damasio part, but whether he's well-read in neuropsychology classics or just followed a similar line of reasoning, this is a phenomenally fun framework to consider UTH under.

Because UTH, and Jason's character for the matter, refuse to disregard emotions. Bruce says "we mustn't let ourselves get clouded by our emotions" and Jason, says "maybe you should." I don't necessarily think he has an ethical philosophy framework for that, I still do believe he's a utilitarian, but he's very emotion-driven and struggling to understand a mindframe that doesn't give the same space to emotions in decision-making. And as such, Jason says "it should matter. If the emotion was there, if you loved me so much, then it should matter in your decision of whether or not to let the Joker die, that it wasn't just a random person that he killed, but that he killed your son."

And Bruce is very much doubling down on this mindset of "I must be stronger than my feelings". He is an emotionally repressed character. He says "You don't understand. I don't think you've ever understood", and it's true, Jason can't seem to understand Bruce's position, there's something very "if that person doesn't show love in my perspective and understanding of what love is then they do not love me" about his character that I really appreciate. But Bruce certainly doesn't understand either, because while Jason is constantly asking Bruce for an explanation, for a "why do you not see things the way I do" that could never satisfy him, Bruce doesn't necessarily try to see things the way Jason does. And that's logical, since Jason is a 16 years old having a mental breakdown, and Bruce is a grown man carrying on the mission he has devoted himself to for years, the foundation he has built his life over. He can't allow himself to doubt, and why would he? He's the adult, he's the hero, he is, honestly, a pretty stubborn and set-in-his-ways character. So, instead of rising to the demand of emotional decision-making, Bruce doubles down on trying to ignore his feelings. And Jason, and the story doesn't let him. Bludheaven explodes. This induces extremely intense feelings in Bruce (his son just got exploded), which Jason didn't allow him to deal with, to handle with action or do anything about; Jason says no you stay right there, with me, with those emotions you're living right now, and you're making a decision. And there's the fact Bruce had a mini-heart attack just before thinking Jason was dead again. And there's the fact he mourned Jason for so long, and Stephanie just died, and Tim, Cass and Oracle all left, and the Joker is right there, and Jason puts a gun in his hands (like the gun that killed his parents)... All of that makes it impossible for Bruce to disregard his emotions. The same way Jason, who was spilling utilitarian rhetoric the whole time, is suddenly not talking about the Joker's mass murder victims but about he himself. The same way Jason acts against his own morals in Lost Days by sparing the Joker so they can have this confrontation later. That's part of why it's so important to me that Jason is crying in that confrontation.

Bruce's action at the end of the story can be understood two ways:

-he decides to maim/kill Jason to stop the insupportable influx of emotions, and him turning around is his refusal to look at his decision (looking away as a symbol of shame): Bruce has lost, in so that he cannot escape the dilemma, he succumbs to his emotions and acts against his morals.

-the batarang slicing Jason's throat is an accident: he is trying to find a way out of the dilemma, a solution that lets him save his principles, but his emotions cloud his judgement (maybe his hand trembles? Maybe his vision is blurry?). In any case, he kills his son, and it being an accident doesn't absolve him: his emotions hold more weight than his decision and he ends up acting against his morals anyway.

It's a very old story: a deontologist and a utilitarian try to solve the trolley problem, and everyone still loses. And who's laughing? The nihilist, of course. To him, nothing has sense, and so nothing matters. He's wrong though, always has been. That's the lesson I'm taking from Damasio's work. That's the prism through which I'm comparing empathy to ethics in Levinas' work and agape in Compté-Sponsville's intro to philosophy through.

It should matter. It's so essential that it matters. Love, emotions, empathy: those are fundamental in moral evaluation and decision making. They are a feature, not a bug. And the tragedy is when we try to force ourselves to make them not matter.

Anyway so that was my analysis of why Damasio's position on ethics is so fun to take in account when analysing UTH, hope you found this fun!

#dc #jason todd #dc comics #red hood #under the red hood #anti batman #anti bruce wayne #(< for filtering)#jason todd meta #neuropsychology meta #now with the philosophy extension!!#once again having very intense thoughts about Under The Hood #me talking about the “killing goons” part: this comic is so infuriating #me talking about the final confrontation: this is the greatest comic ever 😭😭#winick stop toying with my emotions challenge #anyway I put a couple of pins on some of the ideas in there don't worry about it #also i was told that color coding helped with clarity so hopefully that's still the case!

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parker-artio · 15 hours ago

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So I’ve said it a couple times, but I come from a huge family, which is mostly foster family. But I’m from a small town and live in a five bedroom house (one for my mom, one for my brothers, one for my younger sisters, one for my older sister since she’s 18 and can’t share a room w/ foster kids, then mine.)

But rooms aren’t anyone’s hiding spots- Yk what I mean, when you need to destress and get away from everyone but your room is too obvious- so, it got me thinking.

The Wayne manor is massive, all of the bat kids definitely all have that spot. The hiding spot.

So here’s what I think all of them are!

Dick: He had three. The one he lets everyone know about, the one he only lets his siblings know about, and his secret one. He trusts them to only come annoy him in the first one, because he only ever uses it when he crashes out (it’s his best past-time). This one I think would be an ‘on the nose’ place, like his bedroom closet, in the ceilings, on a random chandelier, on the roof, somewhere where they would think to look (they being Bruce and the other adults.) The second is more likely a not so obvious place, but everyone would consider thinking about it. Like, the guest room next to his room- but not just the room, like the closet, or under the bed in there, maybe the shed in the backyard. But his place- the place he tells no one about, that’s the attic. He’ll go up there and hide under and behind a fortress of boxes and pillows and blankets he’s slowly added to since he was 9. No one questions when he goes into the laundry room with a full tote of blankets and pillows or carry’s around cleaning supplies upstairs.

Cass: She hides in the pool house. No one knows. No one finds out.

Jason: When Dick told him about his hiding spot(s) he immediately scoured the library for a hidden spot, his logic was: it’s an old house, there’s gotta be a hidden room somewhere, right? And there was. So when he disappears into the library for three hours and someone goes in after him and doesn’t find him anywhere, they assume he’s escaped through the library in the window.

Tim: He grew up in an old house, he knows all of the hiding spots. Which is how he knew there was a hidden door under the left stairs that led to a panic room, which’s he’s officially transformed into a safe haven, and no one but him can get into or out of. He’s gotta pad lock with a code he can’t even remember. Good thing for patterns.

Duke: When he moved into his room (pretend Bruce is fostering him and he doesn’t live w/ his cousin okay?) He always heard a weird sound coming from his closet. At first he thought it was haunted and refused to put anything in there, but one day when it actually happened during the day and not at night he decided to inspect it, and found a small vent, just big enough for him to crawl through. He obviously went into it, he found himself in a small room where all of the vents connected, just above the batcave- which is where the noise came from. He added a few battery powered fairy string lights, and a small beanbag with a blanket and chair.

Damian: He insists he doesn’t need one despite everyone saying it would be beneficial. But if anyone claims when he goes missing for hours when the barn lights are on, he denies it all. But as he gets older, he doesn’t keep hiding the fact that the barns his hidden space- and a room where he hides the animals from Bruce when he first smuggles them into the house. But no one knows where that is.

BONUS:

Barbara: She used to have a hiding spot in one of the many hidden cliffs in the batcave where she has a very nice fluffy pillow and her baby blanket with a fluffy blanket to accompany it. Her backup-laptop a very strong charger, and a couple books for her college classes. But she can’t get up there, so it’s kinda a hidden relic stuck in time. Now she hides in an unused room back by the back door with enough space for her to move around in her wheelchair, but no one knows where it is.

Steph: She went into the batcave once and saw a door that was labeled ‘Batman only’ so obviously she went inside. The room was empty beside a small door and the shelves of backup generators. So obviously she went into the small door and found herself in a small cozy dark room. She’s managed to decorate it like her room, and even put a lock that can only be opened by her phone. Bruce definitely noticed the room was tampered with when he went to go get a generator, but he didn’t ask about it. He knows everyone has a hiding spot.

Harper: She doesn’t have a place, but she will go into the upstairs bathroom next to the upstairs living room and lock the door and sit in the tub. It’s very therapeutic.

Luke: He’s not at the manor or batcave enough to have a hiding spot, but at his mom and dads he’s got a small section of the basement where he terraformed into a small ‘man cave’ but in actuality he just sits in there on the gaming chair he took from his sister and listens to music or relaxes.

That’s everyone I can think of right now, I might add other characters in a pt. 2? Like maybe Maps, Tiffany, Kate, ect.

#batfamily #bruce wayne #richard grayson #cassandra cain #jason todd #tim drake #duke thomas #damian wayne #stephanie brown #barbara gordon #batfamily headcanons #alfred pennyworth #they’re like bats #pun intended

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dickgraysonisnothereforthis · 8 hours ago

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Jason Todd x gn mean!reader

I love you mean!reader take jason by the balls like he deserves

(Short, fluff, established relationship)

Swearing, no use of y/n

———

“Shit.” The knife slips off the onion yet again and Jason feels like driving it into the countertop. Instead, he takes another go at the onion and almost nicks his finger.

He throws the knife onto the cutting board with a clatter. This is so fucking stupid. Jason is exhausted and starving and at his wit’s end. All he wants is to make himself some pasta, why can’t he cut this goddamn onion?

It isn’t helping that he came home pissed to begin with. The night was a complete waste of his time. He’s spent weeks sniffing around for one of Bane’s weapons shipments and finally tracked it down to a warehouse on the south side. Jason had got himself all gussied up to go in guns blazing, but he kicked in the door of an empty warehouse. They had already cleared the fuck out, they were one step ahead of him. It was so goddamn embarrassing, all he could do was shuffle home in the rain and try not to picture how Bane was probably laughing at him.

And now even this onion is getting the best of him. Can’t Jason have anything?

He perks up as he hears the clank of your key in the lock. You’re home, thank god. He abandons the onion and goes to meet you at the door.

“Hey, babe.” Your cheeks are pink from the cold. Jason ignores your words and pulls you into his arms, jamming his face into your neck. Your hand comes up to card through his hair. “Huh. Rough night?”

He grunts, and you huff out a laugh. “Aw, poor baby.”

“It was so fucking stupid,” he mutters. “How was your work dinner?”

“Fine. Nothing to report. Drinks went on forever.” You slide your fingers under his shirt and pinch at his waist. “You eat yet?”

“Hm.” He bites lightly at your neck. You tug sharply at his hair. “C’mon, Jay, you have to eat.” You gently shove him aside so you can slip out of your coat and slip off your shoes.

“‘M trying to,” he sulks.

You raise your eyebrows. “Well, what does that mean?”

He sighs, gesturing toward the kitchen, and you go investigate. “Couldn’t cut the fucking onion,” he grumbles. It’s so annoying; normally he’s not a complete idiot in the kitchen, but tonight his skills are failing him.

“Ah,” you say as you approach the cutting board. “Well, unfortunately, you’ve done it wrong.” You take his place at the countertop. Grabbing the knife, you hold it to the onion but then stop, turning to squint at him. “You want me to do it?”

Jason looks at you blankly. You nod. “You want me to show you how to do it or just do it?”

He smiles ruefully. “Good.” You start slicing. “Didn’t want to teach you anything, anyway.”

Jason sighs contentedly, putting his arms around your waist and leaning into your back. Your work steadily for a few minutes, before nudging him with your shoulder. “What were you going to put in the sauce?”

“Garlic,” Jason shrugs. “Onion.”

“Hm. It would be better with cherry tomatoes. And white wine.”

“Mm.”

“Go get the tomatoes. And the wine from the fridge,” you order. Jason blows meaningfully at your neck. “Please,” you add.

Jason knocks his head lightly against yours, then goes to get the requested ingredients. Soon, you’re frying up the onions, garlic, and tomatoes, pouring in some white wine, and setting some water to boil. Jason half-heartedly offers to help, but you take one look at him and wave him off. Fifteen minutes later you’re handing him a fork and sliding a bowl of pasta his way.

He digs in hastily. “Thanks, babe.”

You smile in satisfaction, stealing his fork to take a bite. “Hm. Pretty good.”

Jason wolfs it down before getting up for seconds. He grins at you, and you smile softly back. “Fuckin’ delicious.”

“Damn right. I’m gonna shower.” You move toward the bedroom, pulling your shirt over head. Jason gets momentarily distracted by your bare skin.

“Tsk.” He glances at your face, you’re smirking at him. “Eyes up here, big guy.”

“Can’t blame me for lookin’, sweetheart.” Jason smiles cockily at you, and you roll your eyes.

“Finish your dinner.” You turn back to the bathroom.

He picks up his fork. “I’m cleaning up,” he offers.

“You bet you are.” Jason grins cheekily, and you disappear into the bathroom.

———

He needs to be bullied.

#teeth writes #jason needs mean!reader for enrichment #teeth shorts #jason todd imagine #jason todd #jason todd x gn!reader #jason todd x reader #jason todd imagines #jason todd x you #red hood x gn!reader #red hood x reader #red hood x you

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librarylexicon · 2 days ago

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hi! i'm one of those insane people who got into dc via seeing tumblr posts and going "huh these tropes seem like they are tailor made to get me obsessed" but was too intimidated by the volume of comics, and instead read the wikipedia pages of like 20 characters and dove right into fanfiction after. but i've been finding myself getting more and more frustrated with fanfics that are of the "i ignore canon entirely" variety and more and more curious about aspects of canon that are only brushed upon in fanfic. i kinda want to get into the comics but the amount is just. overwhelming. i don't really know where to start, both in regards to the timeline and where to actually find the comics to read. can i ask you for recommendations? if you don't have the time or inclination, no pressure, just delete this ask XD. thank you!

Hi! I'm glad you asked! I've had this ask sitting in my box for a little while because I've been working on redoing a Batfamily comics reading guide I made for my sister back in 2019 to get her into reading comics (it worked). Here is the reading guide, which is currently complete up to the No Man's Land section:

There's a lot of info in the guide to get you started (especially regarding your second point of where to actually find the comics to read), so I'll just address your first point (the timeline) here under the cut by providing an extended summary of events. There are spoilers ahead, but it's a useful read if you're the kind of person who likes to see the big picture before delving in. Warning: it's long!

The Timeline

(Most of the comics mentioned below have been bolded in the reading guide, so should be easy to find and read.)

Batman and Batfamily comics are old. Batman and Robin have both been around for over 80 years. Does this mean you need to read every comic since 1940? Absolutely not! For comic book reasons, there have been several mainstream continuities throughout the years, one after the other, but the best place to start is directly after the universe-rebooting event called Crisis on Infinite Earths in 1986, which established a new continuity known as Post-Crisis. Don't try to read that comic, just trust that it happened. You don't have to read every single one of the comics listed here, especially if you already know some context from fandom (like who's who), but these are the ones most important to the Batfamily mythos.

Origin and early years

Start your Batman reading journey with Batman: Year One, which documents the origin and first year of Batman, establishes his working relationship with Jim Gordon and introduces Selina Kyle (Catwoman). There are many stories capturing Batman's earliest years, the best of which are Batman: The Man Who Laughs (where he meets the Joker for the first time), Batman: The Long Halloween and its sequel Batman: Dark Victory.

Dick as Robin

Dick Grayson, a young acrobat, is introduced in Batman: Dark Victory when Haly's Circus comes to Gotham and his parents fall to their deaths before his (and Bruce's) eyes during their trapeze act, and he comes into his own as the first Robin in the superb one-shot Batman Chronicles: The Gauntlet. You should also read Batman: Ego for an excellent dissection of both Bruce and Batman. Other high quality Dick!Robin stories that flesh out this period and establish Bruce and Dick's relationship are Robin: Year One, Batman: Grimm (Batman: Legends of the Dark Knight #149-153) and Year One: Batman/Scarecrow. Also a good read around this time are the three Halloween stories by Jeph Loeb and Tim Sale (who created The Long Halloween and Dark Victory) collected in Batman: Haunted Knight. Lastly, a natural companion to Robin: Year One is Batgirl: Year One, starring Barbara Gordon, Jim's daughter-slash-adopted-niece.

Jason as Robin

Bit of a timeskip here. By now, Dick's been Robin for six years or so (sources vary), and Jason Todd is introduced in Batman (1940) #408-409 and faces Two-Face in #410-411. There are some fun Jason stories in Detective Comics (1937) #569-574. To see what Dick's up to at this time, read Nightwing: Year One, and also check out Batman #416 for an alternate story of how Dick and Jason meet.

A new Gotham vigilante, Huntress (Helena Bertinelli) is introduced right around here in Huntress: Year One, and Barbara Gordon (who by now has retired from being Batgirl) is shot by the Joker and left paralysed from the waist down in Batman: The Killing Joke. A good Jason!Robin story that slots in here is Batman: The Cult, before the tension between Bruce and Jason is raised in Batman #425-426. Finally, Jason's life and short-lived career as Robin are permanently ended by the Joker in Batman: A Death in the Family.

Aftermath

Bruce is straight up not having a good time right now. He's mourning his kid, the Joker is still at large, he's sans both a Robin and a Batgirl, and he's accused of treason in the character study comic Batman: Blind Justice (Detective Comics #598-600). Sometime later, Dick Grayson (who is sort of estranged from Bruce and has been hanging out with his Titans friends for years) returns to Gotham in the fantastic Batman: Year Three (Batman #436-439), which retells Dick's origin (with some contradictions to other stories listed here, because that's just the nature of comics) and deals with Dick's parents' killer, Tony Zucco, possibly getting parole. Look out for a cute cameo in this one, but don't worry if you miss it – it'll come up again.

Noticing Batman's increased brutality in the wake of Robin's death, a precocious thirteen-year-old named Tim Drake bursts into the narrative when he hunts down Dick at Haly's Circus in the seminal Batman: A Lonely Place of Dying. Batman: Dark Knight, Dark City (Batman #452-454) is a good solo Batman story from around this period, and Batman: Rite of Passage (Detective Comics #618-621) and Batman: Identity Crisis (Batman #455-457) are defining stories for Tim's pre-Robin period as he explores who he is and who he wants to be. (Specifically, Tim's mother is killed and his father is left paralysed.)

Tim as Robin

(Note: Tim is Robin up until Damian is, but I've split Tim's Robin tenure into multiple sections so that it's easier to follow.)

Now that Tim has officially taken up the mantle, Bruce sends him to train in Paris, where he makes enemies of his own and chooses the bo staff for his weapon in the 1991 Robin miniseries. Around this time, Barbara Gordon reinvents herself as Oracle in Oracle: Year One (The Batman Chronicles #5). Tim debuts as Robin with Batman in Gotham in Batman #465, works cases with Bruce in stories like Batman: Shadow Box (Batman #467-469), and even tackles the Joker when Batman is out of town in Robin II: The Joker's Wild.

Other good stories from this period are Batman: Electric City (Detective Comics #644-646), a character study of Tim's relationship with his dad in Batman #480, and a Batfamily teamup and Nightwing cameo in Batman: The Last Arkham (Batman: Shadow of the Bat #1-4). Stephanie Brown dubs herself the Spoiler to spoil the plans of her father, third-rate villain Cluemaster, in Detective Comics #647-649, and Huntress returns with her unorthodox methods in Detective Comics #652-653.

Next up, the sprawling epic that is the Knightfall Saga. Jean-Paul Valley, a graduate student with a family legacy causing him to be beholden to a lifetime of conditioning known as "the System", debuts in Batman: Sword of Azrael. Batman, who has been overworking himself due to increasing pressures from all sides, finds himself increasingly worn out in the stories collected in Batman: Prelude to Knightfall. (Around this time, Robin also forges an unlikely friendship with Huntress in Robin III: Cry of the Huntress.)

In Batman: Knightfall, a huge Arkham Asylum breakout pushes Batman to his limits, and when he finally returns home, mentally and physically depleted, he finds a new enemy waiting to destroy him. It's not pretty. While Bruce recovers, he appoints Jean-Paul Valley to be Batman to Tim's Robin in Batman: Knightquest. Unfortunately, with the System still active, Tim finds himself increasingly sidelined and Jim Gordon breaks ties with this new, inappropriately ruthless Batman. A lot of things happen, but Bruce eventually returns (and so does Nightwing, yay!) in Batman: KnightsEnd.

Right after KnightsEnd but before the next story, there's a DC-wide event called Zero Hour, in which the universe is destroyed and remade. From a Doylist perspective, this is an opportunity for DC to smooth out some oddities with their Post-Crisis timeline and eliminate any plot elements they were dissatisfied with. Among other things, the murderer of Bruce's parents, who had previously been established as a random mugger named Joe Chill, is retconned to be unconfirmed (naturally, this changed later). You don't have to read the main Zero Hour comic, which is a five-issue limited series numbered in reverse order, but there are interesting crossover issues in the various Batfamily comics that are ongoing at this time, including Tim!Robin solving a case with Dick!Robin in Robin (1993) #10. The main reason I mention Zero Hour is because it explains why there are key differences between early Post-Crisis comics like most of Jason's run and post-Zero Hour comics like Nightwing: Year One. The answer is retconning, and it'll come up again and again. Such is the nature of trying to maintain longevity and internal consistency for comics that never end.

Okay, back to the main events! In what is my favourite comic of all time, Bruce rights wrongs by asking Dick to temporarily be Batman instead of Jean-Paul (yay!), and Dick and Tim grow close as Batman and Robin and as honorary brothers before Dick and Bruce finally see eye to eye in Batman: Prodigal. When Bruce is ready to be Batman again, he dons a new, darker suit (which is very close to the suit in the Tim Burton movies that were popular at the time) in Batman: Troika. Alfred, who voluntarily left Bruce's employ in Knightquest, is persuaded to return to Gotham by his best friend, none other than Dick Grayson, in Nightwing: Alfred's Return. Later, Dick does some soul-searching of his own (and gains a new costume!) in the 1995 Nightwing miniseries, and three concurrent stories in Batman: Shadow of the Bat #46-47, Batman #527-528 and Detective Comics #693-694 lay the groundwork for the dramatic next stage of Gotham history.

No Man's Land

What's up next for Gotham? It's a plague! Dubbed the Apocalypse Virus and otherwise known as the Clench, this plague ravages Gotham in the Batfamily crossover Batman: Contagion, which is followed by a resurgence in Batman: Legacy. It's dramatic, it's whumpy, it's mesmerising and it's pretty great.

By this point, you'll be familiar with the regular cast of characters and can read more of their solo comics at your leisure. There's Batman for Bruce and Detective Comics and Batman: Shadow of the Bat for higher chances of him teaming up with others. Tim's solo comic, Robin (1993), has been going since Knightfall, and Dick's excellent long-running comic Nightwing (1996) begins here. Read Robin for Tim's teenage adventures (skateboarding, making friends in school), family ups and downs (his dad is mercurial, but at least he has a cool stepmother, Dana) and love life (he starts dating Steph) and read Nightwing for Dick striking out on his own in the neighbouring city of Blüdhaven, where he eventually joins the police academy to fight crime from a different angle. (There's also the Azrael comic, which may appeal if you find yourself liking Jean-Paul Valley, but as I haven't read much of it, I make no promises about its quality.)

Continuing the notable Batfamily crossover events, Nightwing has a dalliance with Huntress in Nightwing/Huntress, and a massive earthquake devastates Gotham in Batman: Cataclysm. The consequences of this spin into Batman: Aftershock, Batman: Road to No Man's Land and the sprawling, ambitious epic that is Batman: No Man's Land, in which Gotham is declared no longer part of the United States. Within this year of danger, chaos and political limbo, we are introduced to a silent young woman, daughter of the assassin David Cain. With Barbara's blessing, she comes to live at Oracle's base (the Clock Tower) and becomes the second Batgirl. (Also during this period, Steph gives birth to a baby from a former boyfriend, and Tim – in disguise – gets himself stuck in No Man's Land to help her. It's complicated.)

New Gotham

This, along with the previous section, is one of my favourite periods in Batfamily comics. Many of the solo comics just mentioned are at their peak in terms of storytelling, characterisation and plot development, and several more excellent series begin here, including the family-focused Batman: Gotham Knights and the first ever perpetual Batgirl series for the new Batgirl, who would come to be known as Cassandra Cain. Both series are well worth reading!

Batman: Evolution (Detective Comics #742-750) touches on the fallout of the No Man's Land and rebuilding "New Gotham", and Bruce unwillingly gains a personal bodyguard named Sasha Bordeaux in Batman: A Walk in the Park (Detective Comics #751-752), which of course complicates his nocturnal activities as Batman. Soon after, Jim Gordon is shot in Batman: Offcer Down, and (unrelatedly) Dick and Barbara, who have been having off-the-chart levels of UST for years, finally call their flirting what it is: dating. Also at this time, Bruce has been rekindling his relationship with his pre-No Man's Land girlfriend, Vesper Fairchild.

In Joker: Last Laugh, the Joker decides to go out with a bang in when he finds out he's apparently suffering from terminal brain cancer. The theme of family is explored in Batman: Gotham Knights, with Bruce offering to adopt Dick (at long last) in Batman: Matatoa (Batman: Gotham Knights #16-17). And then a secret threatens to tear the Batfamily apart when Bruce is accused of murdering Vesper Fairchild in Bruce Wayne: Murderer?, eventually prompting him to drop the Bruce Wayne identity completely (this made a lot of people very angry and has been widely regarded as a bad move) and become Batman full-time as he goes on the run in Bruce Wayne: Fugitive. Eventually the murder is solved and the murderer is accounted for, and these two stories are probably my favourite Batfamily crossovers ever. They're so juicy and get to the heart of everything I love about each member!

The excellent Bruce & Dick comic Batman/Nightwing: Bloodborne fits somewhere around here, as well as Jeph Loeb and Jim Lee's beautifully drawn and critically acclaimed Batman: Hush, which touches on Bruce's on-again, off-again relationship with Selina Kyle. Around this time in the Nightwing comic, Dick's life has been on a downward spiral for months because of a multitude of factors, including losing his girlfriend, his day job, his circus family, his apartment building and more. This is also where the villains Blockbuster and Tarantula are prominent.

Over in Robin, Tim's father discovers that Tim is Robin and demands that Tim give up the mantle, which he reluctantly does. This results in Bruce offering the job to Steph, driving a wedge between her and Tim. Her tenure as Robin is short-lived for several reasons, and all this leads into the mega-crossover Batman: War Games, in which a massive gang war breaks out in Gotham and Tim's sort-of girlfriend, Darla Aquista, is killed. By the time the dust settles, Steph is (believed) dead, Dick temporarily gives up his Nightwing mantle to work for the mafia (yup), Barbara and Jim leave Gotham and Tim's father is murdered in the DC-wide crossover Identity Crisis, resulting in Tim and Cassandra relocating to Blüdhaven, effectively sealing the breakup of the Batfamily. War Games is followed up by Batman: War Crimes, which is included here for timeline reasons and not much else.

Batman's pretty much all alone in Gotham again, right? Time for somebody else to return. Someone who's been haunting the narrative all these years. Yup, in the wake of the gang war, when rival mob bosses are vying to wrest control of the city, a new crime lord emerges in Batman: Under the Hood: the Red Hood, who turns out to be Jason Todd, back from the dead, and no longer a boy in a yellow cape but instead a ruthless, hypocritical murderer with a chip on his shoulder and no qualms about stabbing Batman's allies. (For more about Jason between his death and return to Gotham, read Red Hood: Lost Days.)

Lastly, there's a DC-wide event called Infinite Crisis, which shakes up the whole DC Universe and leads to Batman, Nightwing and Robin taking a trip around the world for a whole year. (Infinite Crisis also kills off Tim's best friend, Conner Kent/Superboy. Tim's really going through it at this time, poor guy.) Oh, and Blüdhaven is razed by a bomb during Infinite Crisis as well. Yup.

One Year Later

(Disclaimer: it's been a while since I read this period and this one beyond it.) After a year away from Gotham, Batman, Nightwing and Robin return, and Bruce adopts Tim (at long last) in Batman: Face the Face. I'm sure this happy-ish period is going to last, right? Well, the very next story is Batman and Son, in which Bruce learns he has a young son named Damian, who is the child of Talia, daughter of Ra's al Ghul (Batman's currently dead, formerly immortal nemesis of League of Assassins fame). Damian and Tim instantly don't hit it off – rather, Tim is friendly until the bratty and hostile Damian reveals himself to be a murderer and attempts to kill Tim. Of course, Bruce doesn't take kindly to this, and Damian eventually goes back to live with his mother.

Also, during the year the others were away, Cassandra was brainwashed and became evil because of Deathstroke and DC Editorial (this made a lot of people very angry and has been widely regarded as a bad move). Later, Bruce adopts her in the otherwise mediocre 2008 Batgirl miniseries. There's a lot of complicated stuff around this time, such as Steph being retconned as Alive All Along and returning to Gotham in Robin: Violent Tendencies (Robin #170-175, Robin/Spoiler Special), Dick relocating to New York and having a mediocre run in Nightwing, Tim having a new black and red Robin suit to honour Superboy's death, Tim struggling mentally and trying to clone Conner(!) and revive Steph, his dad and Conner, Ra's al Ghul coming back from the dead (again) and trying to use a younger body (Damian or Tim) to stabilise his form in Batman: The Resurrection of Ra's al Ghul, and Bruce tackling the criminal organisation known as the Black Glove in Grant Morrison's Batman R.I.P.

DC-wide events once again have consequences (hooray) in Final Crisis, in which Batman dies. Is he dead for good? Well, this is comic book land, so probably not, but in the meantime, the public can't know that either Batman or Bruce Wayne have died. Hush masquerades as Bruce Wayne (long story) and the Robins battle it out for the mantle in Batman: Battle for the Cowl. Despite Tim's pleas, Dick refuses to become Batman, resulting in an imposter Batman who shoots to kill taking centre stage. This impostor turns out to be Jason, who fights first Tim, then Dick, the latter of whom defeats him. Against Bruce's wishes in his will, Dick becomes the new Batman, and Damian becomes Robin at his side.

Damian as Robin

This new status quo, also known as Batman: Reborn, marks the start of several new series, including Red Robin and Batgirl (2009). Red Robin stars Tim as a deeply unreliable narrator in his new title of Red Robin in his grief-fuelled efforts to gather evidence that Bruce is not dead, while Batgirl follows Stephanie Brown as she becomes the third Batgirl under Oracle's tutelage, the pair of them working out of the Batcave.

Dick, Damian and Alfred have relocated to the penthouse in Wayne Tower and operate out of the underground bunker. Dick and Damian's rocky partnership develops into an unlikely yet compelling and heartfelt bond in Batman and Robin (2009) as they tackle a plethora of villains, including Professor Pyg and Red Hood (again). And where is Cassandra Cain? Sidelined again! She gave up Batgirl for Steph, on Bruce's request, and now goes by Black Bat, though we don't see much of her for Editorial Reasons (sigh).

This being comics, Bruce doesn't stay dead for long, and with both Tim and Dick (separately) discovering evidence that Bruce is not dead, just lost in time (yup), they work together to bring him back alive. I don't pretend to remember all the intricacies of how this works, but you can read about Bruce's journey in Batman: Time and the Batman (Batman #700-703), Batman: The Return of Bruce Wayne and Bruce Wayne: The Road Home. It's long and complex and honestly reading Grant Morrison's writing tends to do my head in.

There are a handful more stories after Bruce's return, including some hugs and heartfelt reunions (yes, really!) and the excellent Batman: The Black Mirror story starring Dick as Batman, but even though this is a really cool new status quo with a bunch of interesting implications going forward, the universe doesn't really stabilise, because we're up to 2011 by now, and the world gets hit by another DC-wide crossover called Flashpoint. Except, this is the biggest one since Crisis on Infinite Earths that I mentioned way back at the beginning, and so everything gets rebooted. EVERYTHING.

Batman and Detective Comics and other long-running comics are cancelled and their number restarted from #1, and many series are cancelled and just never reinstated. This new universe, known as the New 52, sets a new status quo that worked in some aspects but not so much in others. Many changes from the universe we just came from are just jumps that happen without explanation, such as Dick's return to being Nightwing (except now he's red instead of blue), Jason being an anti-hero with a bat on his chest instead of a villain, everyone being younger and closer in age, Steph and Cass being minimised and essentially replaced, and many more frustrating retcons that are confusing and/or illogical. But hey, at least the new Batman and Robin comic (starring Bruce and Damian) and Scott Snyder's Batman run (introducing the Court of Owls) are good! Note: the New 52 was soft rebooted in 2016 to become the current continuity, known at its inception as DC Rebirth, which reintroduced many Post-Crisis elements to mainstream canon.

Duke Thomas? He wasn't introduced until the New 52. Harper and Cullen Row? New 52. Tim being bisexual and dating Bernard? Rebirth, though Bernard was inspired by a very minor character of the same name from Tim's long-running Robin comic. Forever Evil, Spyral and the Grayson comic? New 52. Kate Kane (Batwoman)? She appeared during Batman: Reborn, but she wasn't established as Bruce's cousin until the New 52. Many such cases.

And so, right before Flashpoint is where the Post-Crisis on Infinite Earths continuity ends after twenty-five years, with Bruce as Batman and running a worldwide initiative called Batman Incorporated in Batman Incorporated (2010), Dick as Batman in Gotham, Damian as Robin, Tim as Red Robin, Steph as Batgirl, Cassandra as Black Bat, Barbara as Oracle and Jason as Red Hood (and full villain, not reformed in any way, shape or form). In this continuity, Bruce adopted (in order) Jason, Dick, Tim and Cassandra, and of course Damian is his biological son. It's my favourite continuity, and I hope you enjoy it too.

...And I apologise belatedly for the wall of text.

#dc #dc comics #batman #batfamily #post crisis #asks #afanbeingatheart

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likeiknoworsmthin · 2 days ago

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HC, Bruce is in an On/off (if we're on the same geography location) relationship with Selina and Khoa (each independent from the other) and they're free to pursue other people in the meanwhile, so the bat kids are just wanting to hook up Bruce with Clark and Diana to get ride of Khoa towards the years

Dick "I'm fine with the multiple partners cycle and the on/off relationships, all cool, but I draw the line at fuckin Minhkhoa Khan." Grayson.

Dick (12yo): Supes would be a good boyfriend? don't you think? So nice and gentle, so much better than that bet-asshole.

Bruce: Lenguaje. And Clark is already in a relationship, ¿I thought you like Miss Lane?

Dick: Yeah, but she's a girl. He doesn't have any boyfriend, and you could get him, will be fun.

Bruce: *Horrified at what he has done to Dick's concept of relationships* Most people just have one partner at a time like your parent...

Dick "Circus kid": ¡Ja! You should come up with something better, nobody does that, my parents used to kiss other people all the time.

Bruce: *refrains the urge to facepalm. Of course. And of course, thinking about his family, he has no one to use as an example* I'm really not making this up, most people date a person at a time. Besides, I think he's straight.

Dick: *confused* That doesn't even make sense!

Bruce: It means that he does not feel attracted to men. At all. I'm serious, Dick, don't bother him.

Dick: *snorts* Yeah, sure, B. *Wanders off of the bat cave*

A few weeks later, being baby-sat by Clark.

Dick: So... I heard a rumour

Clark: ¿Yeah? ¿Something you want to share?

Dick: Is it true that you only date a person at a time or is just for one of each.

Clark: *FLUSTERED, too flustered to function* ¿Wha-...?

Dick: yeah so you can have a boyfriend ¿Right? Or aunty Lo is in a relationship with Clark, ¿No? So ¿Superman can have a boyfriend? B does that sometimes.

[Clark.exe stop working.]

Later Clark's going to yell at Bruce for what kind of dive he's raising a poor kid in. ¿What the hell is he taught him with all his "playboy" thing? Poor kid will be traumatized...

Jason "My father is a cheater and my mom has to sell herself for her dose. ¿What even is monogamy" Todd.

Jay(13): So you like cats? *Just after a very dramatic fight between Diana and Cheetah, while Jason is visiting for the new museum exhibit*

Diana: .... *Utterly confused* Yes, of course.

Jay: Not to rain in your parade, but that cat-lady is too... Unique for you. Don't cha'? Should try the Gotham, flavor, she's classy and include a bonus bat.

Diana: *Holding laughter* I didn't mean it like that.

Jay: Yeah, sure, keep telling ya that. *Stops here, but tries to bouch for Bruce and Selina every chance he has. Diana is too amused.*

Casandra "My parents didn't even teach me how to talk, not even mention what a "normal" relationship is like" Cain.

Cass (15): *Shoves the three of them under a mistletoe in a holiday Wayne gala (It's Bruce's gala, Clark is working and Diana is a guest)* Now, Kiss.

Tim "My parents each have multiple lovers outside marriage" Drake.

Tim (14): *pulls a power point* ¿Have you ever heard the benefits included in date The Bat? Could be a interesting offer for you both. First of all, money will not be a problem anymore....

Clark *fresh out divorced and forced to confront that he is, in fact, NOT straight and his "brotherly love" for his best friends has nothing of brotherly in it"

Diana: *Remember when Jason used to try to pull this out, so she's a little nostalgic and very amused*

Steph "Actually I have a good basis but my dad is an asshole and monogamy never did nothing for my mother" Brown

Steph (15): So, you're kissing with the boss

Clark: No...

Steph: then you should.

Clark: I...

Steph: ¿Why no? You're a cute couple.

Clark: ¡We're not...!!

Steph: c'mon, just a kiss...

Carrie "My parents are monogamous but I don't know them enough to make an affirmation about it" Kelley.

Carrie (16): So, Boss ¿When are you going to stop your stubbornness and admit that you want to eat their faces?

Bruce: That's very crude and I don't.

Carrie: then you want them to eat your face. Tomate tomato.

#batfam #incorrect quotes #trinity dc #dc #batman #superman #batfamily #Bruce have so many kids

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artsninspo · 10 hours ago

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COUNTERFEIT - three

⇽ part two

➨ rio's library - good girl nbc

「 ✦ full library & archive ✦ 」

🍒 authors note: the story is starting to heat up and give you a sneak peak of whats to come.

🍒 pairing: Rio (Good Girls) X Faith (Original Character) All my characters are black women.

🍒 word count: ~1.8K

🍒 summary: A day party, unexpected guest, damsel in distress, a lot of stress. Confrontation, unexpected chivalry, back stories & unfavourable truths. This one's messy 🌪️ .

🍒 three - unnatural habitats

I try my best for courage as the city scenes change from outside my window. I can feel Char’s eyes on me. Our argument was conveniently well timed. Now, if I don't show up now to this PR activation of her’s i’ll be toast. The worst sister in the world, problem child extraordinaire. It’s not that I don't want to support Char, it's that Jasonwas invited. In order to secure the necessary funding to make things go off without a hitch she enlisted him knowing his firm's coffers are deep. Knowing Jason, he will be in attendance. It’s the root of my reluctance to attend, not some petty spat and a childish attempt to get even. Char and I didn't speak until last night when she placed the dress she wanted me to wear today on my bed. A pinterest board of context for how I needed to look followed via text along with a detailed itinerary. I reacted to the messages with thumbs up and sat in the make-up artists and hair stylists chairs when they arrived smiling, laughing and talking with them - conceding and playing the role everyone wished to be my permanent disposition.

“Where were you last night?” Char asks, drawing me from my thoughts.

I take a breath before looking over at her, “Out��

Char rolls her eyes at me before smoothing out her dress - it’s rare vintage and gorgeous. “Out where?” she probes.

“Drinking” I respond being short with her and she sighs.

“Whatever, screw your life up. The rest of us are responsible enough to be your backup plans” she snaps but i’m not in the mood for a back and forth.

“I can act the fool during your event if that's what you want?” I threaten her knowing the social game of chess well. Char glares at me in response. She knows she doesn't have to beg me not to. She knows I'd never knowingly light a match to anything she loves.

“I don't want that - I want the best for you Faith and you're just. I don't know what you're doing!” she shouts.

“I’m 24 and you're 25 Char, what the hell! We’ve got our entire lives ahead of us.”

“How many weddings have we been to the past few summers? How many housewarmings and baby showers?” Char snaps like any one of these guys we grew up with is worth getting to claim her in any way.

“That’s where the party dies Char. How many of our friends are the same?” I ask her.

“Just because you resent Merrick-” Char starts.

“It’s not about Merrick” I snapped, tired of that narrative. “None of this shit is real Char, I don't mind playing pretend but the charade has to end at some point! If mom didn’t have Merrick we could still live the way we do. We have an uncle you know, our fathers brother.”

“Drug money” she whispers well indoctrinated. Char looks at me appalled by my suggestion.

“Because corporations are not just as exploitative and damaging to communities, and the environment?” I ask and she looks at me like I'm a mongrel. Daddy would roll in his grave. That’s the fundamental difference - our father was never self righteous. He never made his choice of employment out to be the right thing - it was just a means to take care of his family. Char was his princess and I was his shadow.

“Our father killed people and destroyed families with the poison he pumped into the community. Merrick is nothing like that” She snaps as the car comes to a halt. I exit the car and skip photo opps heading straight into the venue I’ve had a hand in decorating - I’m not in the mood to schmooze or network. I head to the bar and get my first round as the music gets good. I throw a few shots back heading over to mingle and maintain my reputation as the ‘fun’ sister. Girls twerk around me but I spare my sisters the embarrassment of my participation. I’m on a cool down when I see Jason watching me with longing. I don’t remember the last time I enjoyed myself this much in his company. I want to run but I can’t because we’ve made eye contact. He looks like he’s been going through it and I can't imagine how much it hurts him to see me looking unaffected by our end.

“Hey” he shouts over the music, having cleared the distance between us.

“Hey” I responded.

“You look beautiful” He smiles with a hand on my hip. It should be familiar and refreshing but it just isn't. He pulls me in coming in for a kiss but I turn my head and step out of his hold before looking at him again.

“Thanks” I mutter, not nearly drunk enough to forget we're over.

“Babe, can we talk?” He asks, lips brushing against my ear.

“We spoke already,” I remind him.

“You haven’t been taking my calls,” he says.

“Because Jason I have nothing more to say!” I say louder my impatience growing.

“Then listen to me, I love you” he says and for a moment the declaration moves me. But then something about him reminds me of Rick and it all goes away.

“Then let me go,” I plead. Jason searches my eyes before anger flashes in his. He pulls me to him like this is a bid for attention, a game of cat and mouse - a way to spice up our relationship and not a breakup.

“You want more attention, I get it. I’m here. I'll work less hours and make more time for us Faith. I love you - stop being like this” he says confirming my suspicions. It's a testament to how well I’ve gotten to know him and how little he’s been paying attention. The whole thing makes me upset and I pull away but he grabs my arms.

“Hey!” A deep voice says in warning. I relax, relieved security is here but I turn to see D’s cousin Rio. His expression is displeased as he sizes Jason up. Jason releases my arms - caught in his below the board behaviour. He straightens and my head spins. Rio’s the last person I expected here or defending me. He gives me a reassured nod before glaring at Jason like Jason has lost his everloving mind. Jason goes to grab me again before Rio steps between us.

“She’s my girl, move” Jason snaps.

“Doesn’t look like it” Rio responds unmoved.

“Why don’t you go and mind your business?” Jason snaps.

“Faith, is this your boyfriend?” Rio asks, casting a look over his shoulder at me, all the while still using his body as a shield.

“I know everyone she knows and I don’t know you” Jason snaps.

“You can do better than this, ma” Rio taunts with a smile that’s only purpose is to provoke Jason.

“Ma?! Faith, who the hell is this guy?’ Jason snaps ready to make a scene.

“Jason, call me when you aren’t drunk” I shout, needing to diffuse the situation for Char’s sake.

“Faith, don’t walk away from me” he shouts, stepping around Rio to grab at me again and it happens so fast I’m shocked. Jason is grabbed by security and his wallet is plucked from his pocket. Another guard snaps a picture of his license.

“Don’t worry, he won’t be allowed back” the guard says. I force a mortified nod as security makes quick work of throwing Jason out discreetly. A few eyes are on us, Char among them.

Fuck, I curse to myself.

“Thanks” I mumble and Rio turns to face me.

“Let me guess, finance?” He says.

My head is still spinning. “What?”

“He works in finance so he thinks people can be bought? And has shit to lose that's why he aint swing on me for talking to his ‘girl’” Rio says with a knowing, taunting light in his eyes. It kills all of the chivalry of his actions.

“Yes, finance” I admit and he looks me over again like I can do better.

“Well D would’ve wanted me to look out,” he shrugs cooly.

“Thanks” I respond, feeling deflated.

“I’ll tell the staff you're a friend of the family, you need anything let us know” he comments glancing around the venue.

“Appreciate it” I mutter seeing Char’s wide eyes behind him as she makes her way over.

“No worries. But don’t ever come to the bar dressed like that you hear?” He winks walking away.

“Who was that? He’s hot!” Char asks as Rio disappears.

“D’s cousin” I answer honestly.

“How do you know him? I don’t remember this cousin.” she asks.

“He was around when I saw D” I omit the full truth and she looks in his direction some more.

“He’s hot” she repeats and I smile.

“He’s not your type”

“What?” she asks.

“I'm pretty sure he doesn’t fit your criteria” I tell her.

“What does he do?” She asks.

“He looks like he does whatever he wants.” I tell her heading back to the bar. The bartender hands me a cherry margarita before I can order.

“From the boss” he smiles and I do too. My sister watches me with a hundred questions when I don’t pay and I know it’ll be a long interrogation. I wonder if Rio’s actions are genuine kindness or flirting - either way the man is attentive and clearly dangerous. I head home shortly after the incident, skipping out on the after parties. When I wake up I see a slew of emails from Jason and roll my eyes. I see a message from char saying she’s doing hot yoga and relax until my phone rings. I check the caller ID with one eye open and see Diego’s name. Relief washes over me and I answer.

“Hello”

“Char called” Diego says on the other end of the video call.

“Yeah?” I ask and he nods.

“Asking if you were involved with my cousin” Diego says and I roll my eyes.

“Jason was sloshed and getting aggressive instead of my sister intervening your cousin did.” I explain.

“I know he told me, then asked me if guys like Jason are your type” Diego says with a knowing expression.

“We both know he isn’t” I admit. “How's the play off season going at the bar?” I ask.

“Good. You low on money?” he asks.

“No, I've been living off the tips and saving my salary. It’s nice.” I admit.

“Rio’s out of town next weekend so if you want to work let me know” he offers.

“I’m in” I tell him.

“Good”

“Did Char tell you she thinks Rio is hot?” I ask and his eyes bug out.

“Rio isn’t her type, he has a son and two girlfriends” D says, surprising even me.

“Two” I exclaim shocked and D nods. “And he’d pretend Char’s the only one,” I add, shaking my head.

“Good at it too,” D scoffs, making me laugh.

“Then he’s exactly her type, she still believes in playing pretend” I tell Jason who swallows.

“Both of you need to stay away from him.” D says before changing the subject to something lighter.

authors note: checking in with readers. the first chapter did well but the second not so much. idk if you all are busy or tired with the state of the world, tired of rio or adjusting to the change in POV. Whatever the case I'm willing to pause updating this story for now and revisit updating it later.

This story is a slower burn than Forgiveless but I promise all the mess and spice you love and more is on the horizon.

Comment, Like & Reblog if you want more of this story.

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#rio good girls #rio x reader #good girls rio #rio x you #rio good girls imagine #manny montana x reader #manny montana fanfiction #rio good girls fanfiction #rio imagine #rio x oc #rio x black!reader #rio x black!oc

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skecherss · 10 months ago

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the fic i'm writing is. eating my brain

#yessss i'm still on my mermaid nonsense. i'm in too deep i've read too many historical treatises to stop now #jason's in it now. not that that means he's having a good time #doodles #whaling au #shifting into mermay mode #jason todd #tim drake #stephanie brown #batfamily my beloved....

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kaidatheghostdragon · 8 months ago

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Dani x Jason Prompt

(Because i dont see enough of these two together. Also, this is another prompt i found in my fic files that i never did anything with.)

While Danny is in Amity Park protecting the ghost portal, Dani explores the world. Danny might be powerful enough to put down any threat, even Ancients, but she isn't as lucky. Her best defense against Vlad or the GIW is to never be in the same place two days in a row. Not to say she isn't powerful in her own right - she's yet to meet a ghost in her travels that she couldn't utterly crush, and even if she had, she's got the most loyal dog in both this world and the next to have her six.

Dani has discovered a great deal of beauty throughout the world in her few short years of life, but also unfathomable evil and undescribable corruption. She does what she can in every place she passes through, her ghost powers the ultimate cheat code for investigation and subterfuge, bringing to light the things that once hid in the dark.

But while scoping out yet another child trafficking ring, she crosses paths with a spirit of vengeance. At least, that's the only explanation she can come up with for how he's able to turn his shock and horror into pure rage at the flip of a dime.

Until she realizes that he's a baby halfa. If he doesn't learn how to mediate his emotions, he's going to burn out one of his halves.

Maybe she can help him stabilize into a proper spirit of justice and keep him from following the path that Vlad went down - oh shit, he doesn't even know that he's undead. Well, this is going to be a project and a half. But Dani is nothing if not resourceful - she's more than willing to put in the work if it means making an ally of the fourth known halfa.

Featuring:

Dani and jason are about the same age (16-17ish)

They run into each other during jason's LoA-sponsored world tour, investigating the same trafficking ring

Cujo is there too

Dani totally helps with the crime lord grand plan, but also wrestles jason down from the more messed up family drama stuff he did, like attacking tim, and knocks some sense into him and finds a better solution for dealing with the joker

#dpxdc #dp x dc #jason x dani #can be romantic or platonic as long as its ride or die #if good fenton parents then dani AND jason are treated like bonus children #but this can be pre reveal or bad reveal too #but danny (and potentially his parents) are background characters that only exist to provide support when needed #also some time after meeting the two drop off the face of the earth so effectively that not even talia can find them #they show back up like a month later and jason is now a fully trained amazon warrior #because he and dani spent a month training in the realms under pandora while also healing jason's core #in this au team phantom and dani are very nearly robin-level vigilantes because they have an army of mentors in the realms #and if dani is 16-17 that means danny is 18-19 #lol maybe hes already in gotham for college when dani and jason start up jason's master plan #what if damian gets sent to bruce a few years early because danny dealt with the LoA after meeting jason and learning about the pits?#or both dannies teamed up with jason once hes settled into his powers and all work together to destroy the lazerous pits #and the three of them somehow end up with an assassin child to coparent #idk im going off on tangents now so i gotta stop with the tags

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methoughtsphantom · 1 year ago

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Does this count as kidnapping???

A clockwork apprentice Danny that has to fake Jason’s death because he accidentally meddled in the event leading up to it and now he has to act fast because he literally can hear Batman’s running steps catching up to him so in spectacular fashion Danny panics, goes “shit shit shit” and puts Jason in the ghost version of a coma but like expert level pumps him up with so much ectoplasm the kid legit dies for a hot minute there.

…It makes Batman think his kid really is dead like he is supposed to so not all is bad, the timeline is back on track.

It’s just that now Danny can’t leave Jason to be be buried in the ground like he was meant to be originally, instead he waits until no one is looking to snatch the kid up and take him with him to the infinite realms.

Jason is legit convinced he was kidnapped.

Jason: who are you and why did you kidnap me???

Danny: what— kid I didn’t kidnapped you, I saved you

Jason: likely story

Danny: really kid I’m not kidding this is not a kidnapping

Jason: well then can I go home

Danny:

Danny: no

Jason: fucking figures

…

Danny: in my defense when I found you you were already kidnapped

Jason: so? kidnapping me from my kidnappers doesn’t make u better

Danny:

Danny: well it makes me the better kidnapper

#danny fenton #danny phantom #dp x dc #dp x dc prompt #jason todd #robin jason todd #batman #a death in the family #kidnapping is only good when the the person you are kidnapping someone from is the Joker #and i stand by it #but in this maybe jason has a bit of amnesia and doesn’t remember he was with the joker #just that he feels like a giant bruise and now he is in an a sorta alternate dimension #which he doesn’t know how to escape yet but god he will keep trying #his dad must be worried sick #!!#anyways not like they’re treating him bad here #no #no bad Jason don’t let yourself get Stockholm syndrome-d #meanwhile danny: trying to figure out how is he suppose to keep the timeline going like it’s suppose to #Jason is suppose to be brought from the dead in six months!!#this is really just long thought of shit shit shit from Danny #he really dropped the ball here #anyways that he doesn’t regret sucker punching that clown in the face #but all is good #all is perfect #my boy’s got time to figure out what to do with the timeline #in the mean time this boys in my head will be bonding #JSJ poor b though #he’s not having a good time

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welcometogrouchland · 8 months ago

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Batman #149 by chip zdarsky is mostly unremarkable, but I'm really fascinated by how it makes a great case for 'good' endings not saving 'bad' stories*. Because there's a lot of interesting concepts in this issue (bruce having to deal with his rapidly aging and decaying clone making him think about his own life, re-establishing a 'nest' so to speak for his family after pushing them away, etc) but bc of the OOC slog that came before it, almost every moment w/ the batfamily comes off as unearned and disingenuous imo.

Like, everything with Damian is the perfect example in this. Because in isolation it's...fine. admittedly it's a missed opportunity to not go deeper into how Damian would feel about a clone of his dad who tried to kill considering Damian's relationships with clones of himself (the heretic rejects and respawn) or with former enemies who wanted him dead but who were manipulated and/or brainwashed (like suren and maya).

Zdarsky doesn't go into any of this but you could maybe excuse it as the issue not being about Damian. However, coupled with the previous bizarre characterizations of Damian in 147 and 148, it ends up not being fine- instead it starts to feel...icky how Damian (who, despite often being drawn and written as white, will never have his connection to the non-white al ghuls forgotten and will always be effected by racism even when not portrayed as a poc) is constantly written as overly violent, uncaring and narrow minded in this run. Coupled w/ trying to recanonize the morrison origin for Damian it's like. OH this is badly written and laden with subtle bigotry, sick**

That's me going into detail on it with Damian but it's applicable to other things in this issue- the way Cass, Steph and Duke have all been ignored or turned into jobbers makes their inclusion in the 'family' here feel hollow instead of satisfying. Bruce proclaiming that Zur was still a part of him and he needs to accept responsibility for his actions (when it means taking in clone son) wrings hollow when just last issue zdarsky was bending over backwards to separate Bruce and Zur bc otherwise the Jason thing would get really awkward. Ends are achieved through means that feel hollow or strange. I'm at my destination but damn why'd the bus have to do all that???

I only really have opinions on this latest arc of zdarskys Batman bc it's the one I've read the closest (bc I'm a hater, masochist and avid follower of even the bad damian storylines) but it's not saying great things.

Bc zdarsky can do one thing good in this book, and it's write Bruce and Tim. And yet this entire story, whether of his own volition or editorial mandate, includes other characters who aren't Bruce and Tim, the fabric starts to unravel in very telling ways.

(p.s, I think pennyworth manor is an interesting idea but I feel like in execution it's just gonna be 'bruce living in a house haunted by the memory of the people he couldn't save' but with a different dead guy this time. Illusion of change and whatnot)

*whether or not the ending is good is up to you ofc, as is your opinion on the proceeding arc! I saw some ppl complain that the ending was too "WFA" for them, which I get even if I dont think it'll literally be the same premise. If anything it's probably a lead into the new tec run. Likewise many ppl who aren't in the weeds of Damian and Jason characterization liked the previous arc! But I have my opinions and rest my case before the bench

**disclaimer, I'm white and portrayals of bigotry in comics are complicated and subjective, but I am basing my point here off what other poc comic fans on socmed have been saying about 149. Also the "sick" is sarcasm incase that wasn't obvious

#ramblings of a lunatic #dc comics #dc #damian wayne #bruce wayne #uhhh. not gonna tag the others i dont have time #batman #idk if the zdarsky series has its own tag #anyway yeah. i saw some interesting discussions surrounding 149 and it got me thinking #the experience of reading the issue is inoffensive until i remember how we got here and then all of a sudden i start to feel downright evil #the bruce/zur separation thing pisses me off so bad. MOTHERFUCKER YOU WERE JUST SAYING LAST ISSUE THAT NONE OF IT WAS HIM #and maybe we were meant to agree w Bruce and not Jason in that issue but if that's the case. piss poor job demonstrating it #Bruce never really faces like. interpersonal consequences from the family that last beyond an issue #which is WILD considering the shit he pulled back before they knew he was having a menty b (mental breakdown for those who dont know)#the damian thing is just like. its such clear author bias in ways both lowkey funny and also. not funny. at all #i know a lot of ppl on here didnt vibe w/ batman and robin by joshua williamson but like #i cannot stress enough how he was one of the ONLY ppl in damians corner and now hes leaving that series #he says he approves of the new creative teams assigned but also they're his coworkers. so i dont trust SHIT until its in my hands #anyway one day I'll give a more good faith reading of zdarskys Batman and i do wanna read his daredevil some day #but as it stands he suffers from terminal ''has seemingly never read a comic not abt my special white boys and refuses to try''#which means everyone is going to have to suffer through my haterism #also sorry for no images. i really want to but i just don't have the wherewithal to do alt text rn

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