#izzy is the antagonist because he doesn't like the revenge crew and they don't like him

[ladyluscinia]

Literally though "Why would Izzy be so against Edward's embracing the crew in his grief if he wasn't a femme-gay-hating homophobe hmm???" Because they are boat based criminals, Margaret.

Because they scare people for a living. Because they are social outcasts making a system work for them that was never intended to. Because Izzy is a hardened, paranoid bastard who thinks being weak in front of people you cannot trust is how you get killed, and staying alive is more important to him than emotional fulfillment. Because he doesn't trust the Revenge to be a safe space.

There's a really-not-that-hard to spot story here about community and support and the importance of being yourself openly, but it's rooted in the community bit. In having a group of people who you trust and are comfortable with before you start feelings-circling your softest bits.

No fucking shit the antagonist whose defining experiences on the Revenge were mockery, disrespect, having his crewmate spread an embarrassing story to the enemy, more targeted mockery, being lied to, and then being banished does not view the Revenge as a safe space to be vulnerable. ���� Is he probably going to learn that being a dick to keep anyone from bonding with you is part of his problem and that physical safety isn't everything? Learn the value of community and letting go of defensive maladaptive behaviors that actively harm yourself and others? Seems likely.

But fucking hell it is not actually a sign of undeniable moral corruption to not instinctively trust strangers to welcome you into the fold and become your support system. Especially when they don't.

(Hell, our protagonist Stede doesn't open up even as he preaches the importance of opening up - because he too needs to learn about safe spaces and community support.)

[piratecaptainscaptainpirates]

Okay, so, there's one thing that I'm kind of tired of beating around the bush with white fans about, and it's this: if you pretend to "ignore" race in OFMD, you will miss a lot of what the story is trying to tell you.

Now, I do not truly believe that race is something you can ignore in a story. I just don't think it's possible, and when you try, what you wind up with is something like the conservative worldview of "not seeing color." Trying to ignore race will make you sound racist and ignore important racialized themes.

You can't understand Stede's need for character growth at the beginning of the show if you just focus on how he's "cringe" instead. When Stede makes his crew members of color serve them at dinner when the English board, this is gross, and their faces tell us exactly how they feel about it. Stede unlearning his biases here isn't subtle (guy who called him and Pete "fucking racists" I love you forever), and learning to take all of his crew members seriously as fully actualized people, moving away from the sort of Kindergarten-teacher behavior at the start to truly valuing them as people and taking their input and suggestions, it's an important aspect. Stede asking Abshir for intel at the party isn't just funny, it's also proof he's learned to see value in people in positions like Abshir's.

You can't understand the motivations behind Ed's actions, especially the violent ones, if you ignore the racist overtones. Ed is not a randomly violent person - he gets angry at a captain for calling him a "rich donkey," and if you think it's unreasonable for a brown man to want to get revenge on a white man for calling him that? Then fuck I'm glad you can't see the conversations I have with my other black friends, man. Ed's anger and frustration at the party aren't just because he fucked up with some spoons, lol, you can't get it unless you realize he's the only brown guest in that room. Yeah, he's ignoring Stede's advice, but he's immediately under a pressure Stede never has been. Ed's wanted posters in s2, too, rely on heavily caricaturizing Jewish features to make him look grotesque and monstruous. We're supposed to be horrified by that aspect.

And, yeah, when we ignore the racist tones to Izzy's behavior, I think that's undermining an important aspect of who he is as an antagonistic character. Him buying Ed from the English should feel like a gross violation, because it is. When he sits in front of the crew eating and making Fang and Ivan serve him, I think it's a pretty obvious parallel to how the crew members of color were similarly insulted in the pilot. It's impossible to ignore race in the way he dehumanizes Ed and tries to force him back into a caricature of behavior he hates and is horrified by - when he calls Ed a "wild dog" in s2, if that doesn't cause a visceral reaction of disgust in you, I dunno what to tell you. This doesn't mean that Izzy is irredeemable - just as Stede wasn't - but it does mean that racist biases are things Izzy had to unlearn.

OFMD so often takes so much care with how its characters of color are depicted. We get thoughtful, relatable moments (those French boat people getting humiliated and setting their boat on fire after they'd tried to touch Ed's beard is so satisfying, guys) and excellent, supportive friendships between men of color. The characters of color on OFMD are clean, smart, respected, and it's wonderful. And just because these things aren't always relatable to you specifically doesn't mean they're not important parts of the story.

[carrymelikeimcute]

The izcourse continues...

When did people stop saying 'in my opinion'? because lord above would that simple phrase have stopped me getting so mad this morning.

I have no interest in reblogging the posts and starting drama, but some izzy takes I've seen this morning have made me want to chew through rawhide, and here's my opinion on why these 'factual statements' are wrong.

Izzy fans shouldn't be upset by his death because he's not a main character, he is a plot device to further the story of the main characters.

I'm a professional writer btw and to me a 'plot device' character is the barista who's in one scene. To me, if a named character with backstory and complicated interpersonal history with one or more main characters is just 'a plot device' - that's a waste of a character and shitty writing. I don't think ofmd is shittily written so this annoys me on two levels - disrespecting the show, and the character. Because in my view if Izzy is 'just a plot device' that's someone insulting the show.

2. Izzy was an antagonist and antagonists can only ever be redeemed and then die, or become a villain.

Not even true of ofmd and certainly not of media in general, yet stated as fact with nothing to back it up. This is NOT an opinion btw - you only have to look at Zheng and Jackie to know it's not true within the context of the show.

Jackie dobs Stede in to the British just as much as Izzy does, and she threatens them with vengeance again over the indigo - does she die? Does she become a villain? No, she's a guest at the lupete wedding for fuck sake.

Zheng insults Ed and attempts to kill Stede, two things Izzy was vilified for, gosh it was so sad when she died in the finale wasn't it? Oh no wait, she became their ally and sailed away on The Revenge!

'Have to die or become villains' is just...incomprehensible to me. The only way I can see it working in someone's head is if they think character like Jackie and Zheng did nothing wrong, when Izzy was evil, for doing the same things - albeit for more personally passionate reasons.

3. Izzy telling Ed that the ship's atmosphere was poison because of 'his feelings for Stede' was Izzy 'blaming Ed's actions on love again, just like he did in s1.e10 because Izzy is just one-note evil and only ever has that one thing to say.

To me, s1 Izzy is absolutely thrilled to have managed to bait Ed to anger, to have brought this out of him. He thinks he knows what he's just unleashed, but as we soon discover, he has no idea - because Ed had never cut off one of his extremities before. He poked the bear, but the bear was actually a fucking kraken.

s2 Izzy, in my opinion, looking at his expression above, is sad, resigned, he is saying Stede's name (which it's already established even obliquely mentioning him is a BAD IDEA with the whole 'talk it through' thing, after which Izzy sounds panicked) but he is specifically trying to make Ed see that he is not himself - that what he is doing to the crew is toxic.

Just because he's essentially saying 'This isn't you' in both scenes, doesn't mean the tone or the meaning of those scenes is the same. One scene ends with Izzy gleeful, victorious. One ends with him screaming on the deck, bleeding out.

I am happy for people to have these opinions, and for me to vehemently disagree with them, but they ARE opinions. And Izzy 'fans' or you know, people who see the show differently to you, are not stupid, racist, immature or whatever else you want to call us.

We just have a different opinion. If you're going to share your opinion, great! But it's still just your opinion.

[brigdh]

I can't stop thinking about rewriting S2. I don't know why – it's hard to find an activity that's actually less productive than writing fanfic, but surely this is it – but my brain won't stop circling around the idea, so I'm writing this down to hopefully shut it up.

A proposed outline for a better S2 of Our Flag Means Death.

Episodes 1-3 are pretty much the same as what aired. The big change is that I'm cutting out Prince Ricky. I think two big antagonists are too much for an eight episode season, though I went back and forth on whether to cut Zheng or Ricky. I decided on Ricky because the "end of piracy" plot is way too overwrought for a comedy series, and there's no way it was ever going to work without a lot of build-up. Like, a lot a lot. Possibly multiple seasons of it, and we just don't have time for that here. Also, although Ricky makes a fun foil to Stede, that never really goes anywhere. So he's gone. This doesn't make much of a difference to these first three episodes, since he's only in two scenes, but it will help tighten the focus at the end of the season. One other change is that it's clear (perhaps even referenced in dialogue) that Ed is still not killing anyone directly with his own hands.

Episode Four: This is where I start with the big changes, rewriting this whole episode. Now it's focused on the crew wanting to kick Ed off the ship. Stede goes back and forth between the crew and Ed, trying to talk the crew around while simultaneously trying to romance Ed. He fails on both sides. Perhaps we still have Ed's corporate "apology", as an attempt at compromise, but the crew refuses to accept it and this time, they're in charge. Lucius has his plot about being traumatized and drawing Ed's face everywhere (but not the resolution, not in this episode). Ed is angry at Stede – they get to have an actual fight, about Stede leaving, about Ed marooning the crew/tossing Lucius overboard, about Ed's mermaid dream vs Stede's masculine pirate hero dream. Ed fears he's unlovable, and Stede's unrealistic declarations of love are just making him feel like anything between them is impossible. (Maybe Ed & Izzy have a fight too – I'm not committed to including this, depending on time, but it could be good. Maybe Izzy gets to say, "A rotten leg's got to come off" to Ed!) At the end of the episode, Ed leaves the ship and tells Stede not to follow him. Everyone's angry and upset.

Episode Five: Ed spends the entire episode off the ship, throwing himself into his new career as a fisherman (it doesn't have to be fishing. It can be anything, as long as it's new. The point is Ed running away from himself and his past and trying to become an entirely new person). He's using a new name – Jeff? – and has a whole backstory he's made up. At the end of the episode, he realizes that this isn't making him happy either, because he keeps thinking about his guilt, about Stede, about Izzy or Lucius or whoever he centers on as someone's he's mistreated, and so he leaves.

Meanwhile, on board the Revenge, everyone's having a miserable time. This is where the 'traumatized crew comes together to make the unicorn leg' plot goes, except this time it's a three-sided hot mess, with the crew, Izzy, and Stede – heartbroken over his idealized view of 'true loves fixes everything' having crashed and burned in the previous episode. Buttons turns into a bird, but this time Stede is the one to witness it. It inspires him to patch things up with the crew and go after Ed. Together, they all come up with a motto for the season – something like, 'change is possible' or 'you've got to try again', idk, except it's probably cheesy and rhymes and yet is weirdly inspirational, a la 'talk it through as a crew'.

Episode Six: Ed runs into Anne Bonny and Mary Read, and goes to stay with them. Before Stede shows up, Ed gets a bit of time to talk and reminiscence with them about their own "good old days", back when he was happy. It becomes clear though, that remembering murder and torture and etc is not making him happy now. Ed asks them about feeling guilty. Their advice is terrible: only losers care. Ed laughs it off, but clearly is conflicted. Stede tracks him down, and the rest of the episode play out pretty much like it did in canon (I think Jenkins & co really wanted to do "Ed and Stede as exes at a party", so I am giving it to them here). However, the vibes are a bit different – it's less that Ed and Stede haven't spoken at all as in canon, but that they had their big fight in E4 and are now dealing with the awkward aftermath of wanting to make up, each wanting to maintain their pride, and not knowing how to do either. At the end, Stede gets the courage to put himself out there and asks Ed to come back to the ship. Ed refuses at first – the crew doesn't want him and he doesn't know how to be a better person. Stede passes on the motto the crew came up with in the previous episode – 'change is possible' or whatever – and Ed agrees to come and try. They have a brief, chaste, kiss.

The crew back on the Revenge should have a B-plot too. I love the cursed suit subplot and would stick it here, but honestly I'm not sure it works if Stede isn't around to be the pro-suit side of the debate. Maybe we have a training montage, but it's Izzy and the crew instead of Izzy and Stede. Whatever happens, we also get the Lucius and Pete proposal. This goes along with the hopeful, new beginnings vibe of what's happening with Ed/Stede.

Episode Seven: Ed and Stede return to the ship, and the crew agrees to let Ed try out their new motto. Calypso party preparations begin, but this time Ed is not just handing out money but taking part in finding and putting together decorations and set-up. We get scenes of him and different characters working together; things are awkward but improving. Izzy and Wee Jon can still do drag and sing. Ned Low shows up and disrupts the party.

The big change here: Ed is the one to kill Ned Low, not Stede. I love Stede's plot about becoming a pirate hero and killing and not dealing with it, but it's just too much for a season with a lot of other stuff going on. Sorry, Stede; your masculinity issues have to wait for S3.

Ed killing someone is portrayed as a very big deal. Ned is more dangerous here – it's seen as necessary for someone to kill him, and Ed taking on the role is cast as him becoming the protector of the crew rather than their tormentor. Nonetheless, despite Ned's death being a 'good' thing, Ed is traumatized and he and Stede still have ill-advised sex about it. Izzy can definitely still sing La Vie en Rose during.

Episode Eight: Zheng has (like in canon) been collecting all of the pirates in the Caribbean into her alliance. Now she's finally coming for the Revenge. It's them against dozens of ships. I think, since I'm making Zheng more of a straightforward antagonist than a reluctant ally, I have to break up Olu/Zheng. That's okay. In fact, it can make a nice parallel – sometimes people grow apart and it's not anyone's 'fault', it's just life. Are Stede and Ed also growing apart, or will they find a path forward together?

Stede comes up with what someone describes as a suicide mission. Ed says, 'what if we don't commit suicide?' He wants to live. He wants to be happy. He's still grappling with having killed Low, and he realizes that he can't do that again – can't even put himself in a situation where it might be kill or be killed. He proposes they surrender and just go and live on land somewhere. Why not? What is piracy good for, even, other than violence and theft? Izzy makes his speech about belonging to something. The crew – which has been swaying back and forth, debating both for and against fighting Zheng – is convinced, and decide to go to battle. Ed isn't. He agrees that community is important, that it was there when he needed it, that he'll always be glad he had it, but he can't stay. He's changing. This is him changing, for real. He and Izzy have a final exchange about Ed moving on and Izzy accepting it.

Ed and Stede have an emotional goodbye, where Ed says that he won't be like Anne & Mary – he won't let Stede leave piracy for him, but maybe Stede can come and visit some time. They make some long-distance relationship jokes. Ed leaves. They're both being ~super~ mature and adult about it, but they're clearly both not really happy.

Stede and the crew prepare for battle. Lucius and Pete get married, as a last hurrah for the Revenge in case not everyone survives the coming confrontation. They carry out Stede's plan (I don't know what that is, I'm not an action scene writer, something cool and out-of-the-box. Though it's not like 'dress up in British uniforms' was a unique and exciting plan either). They succeed, either by defeating Zheng or just escaping for now. (Does Izzy die in battle? It doesn't really seem necessary. If he does, it's clearly about becoming one of the crew and they're the ones his death scene centers on, since Ed isn't even there.) There's a big celebration scene and/or funeral, and everyone is bonding, people are cheering Stede's plan, but Stede himself can't join in wholeheartedly. He's off in the corner, clearly not quite satisfied. He pulls aside Frenchie and tells him, "I have something to give you".

The final scene: Ed is working on his new career. Maybe he's running a bar & grill in the Republic of Pirates. He's not hiding who he is, even using the Blackbeard name for PR, but it's not a fighting-focused career. Stede walks up, clearly unexpected, and Ed's like, "thought it'd take a lot longer for your first visit." Stede gets a big speech about piracy. Everyone's gotten to define it for themselves; for Ed it was about violence, for Izzy community. (Maybe some of the rest of the crew have gotten to voice their own takes as well.) Stede says that for him, piracy means freedom. That's what he was dreaming of, when he first set out to be a pirate, what he's been looking for his whole life – the freedom to be who he really is. Ed says, "and who are you?" Stede replies, "the man who loves you." They kiss.

We get an overhead shot, swinging out to sea, with the Revenge sailing away with Frenchie as captain. Distantly, we hear Ed and Stede talking as sound fades out –

Ed: You promise you're not going to burn down my bar when you get bored? Stede: Why would I be bored? I have so many ideas! Theme nights, cocktail recipes, waitstaff uniforms... Ed: Hey, what happened with Zheng? Stede: Oh, she might hunt me down for revenge. Another reason we won't be bored!

[a-nybodys]

Idk about the other stuff, but isn't Izzy's whole thing is he's gay and homophobic? Like, not like a Bible thumping homophobe, and this show is meant to be positive so they aren't going to make him like call people slurs and he's gonna respect pronouns, but Izzy in the narrative represents toxic masculinity, and there is homophobia in toxic masculinity. He may not even hate like men sleeping together cuz pirates are desperate, but he hates softness and effeminacy and caring/attachment in men, and that is a major part of homophobia and toxic masculinity. The people he has the most beef with are the most flamboyant gay men on the ship. He tries to make Lucius do hard labor, but he also taunts Lucius over sleeping with men, and then he tries to his sexuality against him before Lucius reveals it doesn't matter to him. He hates Stede for making him look bad, but he also hates what Stede is doing to Ed, and says that thinks Stede is seducing Ed and that its breaking Ed's brain by making him "soft" and caring, and is also horrified when he thinks they're having sex. And then he insults and threatens Ed over, going soft and heartbroken over his pining after his "namby pamby boyfriend." To me, that is homophobia and it's a part of Izzy's general toxic masculinity stance. And I say this while saying that I love Izzy. He's funny and an interesting character and I wanna study him under a microscope, and I wanna see where his character will go from here, if he'll get redeemed or get more evil or just hang out on the ship still minding his own business. There is absolutely nothing wrong with liking him, and I'm not saying this as a reason to make people hate him, and no way are fans of Izzy homophobic for liking him. That literally makes no sense. But I don't understand him not atleast representing homophobia in a subtextual way, as the Badmintons do, since toxic masculinity and homophobia (among other things) are intertwined together and the stuff he uses to jab at Ed and Lucius and Stede is their presentation and even sexuality. As the antagonist, his goal is separating the gay romantic leads and keeping toxic masculinity the same as it was before Stede. I might be completely missing something here or misunderstanding something, I dont know. I do not mean for this to sound rude at all, I'm just genuinely curious about your thoughts.

i think its possible to uphold toxic masculine standards while not being homophobic. but, honestly, he doesnt even really read toxic masculinity to me tbh.

he had to have known ed was gay, he was close to the man for years if not decades, and i really dont think izzys issues with stede or lucius stem from homophobia but maybe more of a general aversion to how they pirate. he views piracy as a tough, dog eat dog world (as do the rest of the pirates in the show other than the crew), one that cant be solved by kindness or caring or anything stede tries to uphold. he is angry that stede is trying to get by like this, without any hard work on his part, without any blood sweat or tears and, worst of all, without failing miserably. we dont know anything abt izzys backstory but i think it genuinely burns him up that the crew of the revenge doesnt even have to work particularly hard to get by and even thrive, because thats not his experience at all. i think he got to where he rests, at the top of the top, second only to the best pirate ever, through pain and death and hard work. i think his problems with stede arise from more of a place of ‘he has the money and resources and luck to get by without any hard work’ and less of ‘hes effeminate and i hate that about him.’ same with the whole ‘daddy’ scene, hes not mad at lucius for having sex with a man, hes mad at lucius for not working and slacking off. he brings up fang and pete as a threat, not because he finds it gross, but because its a way to blackmail lucius into following izzys orders.

and by him being disgusted by his thinking of ed and stede having sex, i def think it has way more to do with ed having sex with stede than ed having sex with a man. he just genuinely hates the guy lmao. he knew jack was “close with” (read:had fucked) ed before, otherwise he wouldnt have sent jack to play with ed’s emotions and trick him into leaving the revenge.

idk i think my view of it all comes down to theres no way izzy could idolize ed and work on a crew consisting entirely of leather daddies if he was homophobic lmao, and i dont think ed wouldve kept him around if he were either.

[teeny-tiny-revenge]

This complaint also completely fails to listen to the actual claims about mental illness the show makes, and that's so puzzling because OFMD is very on the nose with what it says about mental health.

We are introduced in the very first episode to the things Stede implements on his ship to aid the crew's mental health: having healthy outlets for their emotions (rec room etc), being included in the running of the ship (agency over their lives), being paid regardless of performance (no fear of starving if they aren't at their best), "you could have shared it!" (being kind to each other), and of course the famous "talk it through as a crew" (support from people around you, not bottling up your negative emotions). We are continuously shown that these mental health improving measures work. They let Stede built a good relationship with his crew. They allow the crew members to grow as people and as a community. Stede gets over his initial guilt of killing Nigel Badminton through talking it through with the island tribe elder. Stede gets over his Chauncy trauma, the guilt of having left his family etc by talking to Mary and finding love and support with her. I could go on, because it's a very long list. The show's massage is "people do better and their mental health improves when they receive love and support from their peers". This is not difficult to understand! I think outside of the main romance plot, this is OFMD's central theme!

The statement "people's mental health improves when they receive love and support" comes with a natural, logical and obvious negative version: "people's mental health gets a lot worse if they do not receive love and if they do not have a support system they can rely on when they are struggling". Also this comes with various examples, for all of the crew, and especially for our two protagonists.

To say "Stede's dick love cured Ed's mental health issues" entirely ignores how this event fits into the overarching theme of "people strive when they have a support system and struggle when they don't ". Of course Ed got better quickly after Stede's return! There's finally someone who openly cares about him! There's someone who unconditionally loves him, even on his bad days! There's someone he can trust, someone he can talk to!

But, let's look at Ed's arc in its entirety (which is something the people making this claim seem entirely unable to do), and at important mental health events across both seasons.

Ed struggles with mental health issues already when we meet him. One of the first things out of Ed's mouth in the first episode he fully stars in is "You ever feel trapped? Like you're just threading water, waiting to drown?" Ed, as shown in this episode through several interactions with Stede and Izzy, is passively suicidal at worst, depressed and feeling stuck at best. In this episode, the focus of telling us about Ed's mental health is on how tired he is of his job that doesn't give him any challenge and joy anymore. In following episodes we learn about Ed's generational trauma of growing up poor and indigenous, we learn how he experiences racism and classism. We learn about his deepest, most formative childhood trauma: him killing his abusive dad to protect himself and his mother from his violence. We learn how this experience has shaped Ed's entire sense of self and of self-worth: he believes he is an unlovable monster and can never have any friends because of it. This belief founded in trauma is fundamental to Ed's later suicide attempt.

We are shown Ed's mental health improving during his time on the Revenge. He finds an equal and an instant friend in Stede, he tries new things, he enjoys himself. He opens himself up emotionally, not even only to Stede: Ivan and Fang notice that they have never seen Ed this open and available. The kind and supportive atmosphere Stede fosters on his ship also works on Ed.

(Tangent: it works on everybody. It also works on villains and antagonists: like the crew of Ned Low, or on Izzy eventually. That's part of Izzy's S2 arc: receiving support from the people around him even though he's done nothing in return allows him to become a better person.)

Back to Ed: Stede's abandoning him does not cause the mental health issues; they are already there from the start. The grief of the breakup worsens Ed's depression, and we see him going through peak depression and breakup moods and behaviours, like crying in a blanket fort, writing sad poetry and eating junk food. Ed's mental health improves when Lucius and later the entire crew offer him support, listen to his sad songs and include him in group activities ("A person's mental health improves when they have a support system" the writers are yelling from the maintop).

Ed's mental health absolutely tanks after Izzy tells him he's better off dead, threatens him and forces him back into both the job he hated so much that it made him feel depressed and into the overall role of Blackbeard, a hypermasculine caricature of a person who does not have any friends and who has to always remain isolated from everyone around in order to maintain the Mystique and the fear required to make Blackbeard work. ("A person's mental health gets worse if they don't get support and are told they should be dead rather than queer!" the writers yell from the maintop).

Ed's worst time is basically defined by isolation, and by him focusing on his oldest, deepest traumas: that he is unlovable, that he is the Kraken, that nobody likes Ed for Ed, that even the one guy who seemed to like him wasn't for real.

And then Stede comes back, and Ed receives unconditional love and support maybe the first time in his life. Of course he gets better!

He still struggles with the same old issues in the background. He still finds piracy awful and depressing, to the point that he breaks up with Stede to become a fisherman (the magic dick did not make him continue living a life that makes him want to die, so either it's not very strong magic, or the theory is very wrong). Something that's usually ignored when talking about this brief fisherman Ed stint is that Ed was happy with this life. He is not good at being a fisherman and he quickly fell out with pop-pop (who also reminded him of his issues with fatherly figures...), but I think it's important that the basic choice of "I'm going to leave piracy for a simple but safe life" is right for Ed (and directly informs his eventual choice of retirement and innkeeping rather than following Zheng). Like. This is not a guy who's only functional because of magic dick. He left the dick behind! Now, OFMD is a romantic comedy and the relationship is the plot, so of course Ed couldn't stay a fisherman and away from Stede, and I'm not saying either would have been good for him in the long run, but I want it noted that once he's recovered from the severe depressive episode in the beginning of S2, he is fully capable of being a happy and functional, self-contained human being outside of the relationship with Stede. To the point where he chooses his own happiness over the happiness of the relationship with the man he loves!

Ed's mental health improves again when he reclaims Blackbeard (and with it his own capacity for violence) in order to rescue or avenge Stede during the finale. Again, this event is triggered by Ed thinking Stede in danger or dead, but it is not about Stede at all, it's entirely about Ed and his self-image, and him making peace with all the parts of himself, the soft parts that he calls Ed (which love Stede and which want a quiet life) and the hard parts that he conceptualises as Blackbeard (the parts that kill to protect himself and/or those he loves, like Stede or his mother).

We once more see Ed much improved mentally when he is reunited with Stede and they can resolve their argument (it's never fun to be arguing with someone you love, of course that's good for him, and of course being together with a person he loves also makes him happy, that's what love is). He is in great spirits during the escape from the navy plan.

Izzy's death is a hard blow for Ed, while their relationship wasn't good for Ed for the majority of both seasons, they had started to become friends, and Izzy has been around a long time. Ed is naturally grieving (a confusing thing about grief is that you don't necessarily grieve less for people you had a conflicted relationship with). But he is not grieving alone. The entire crew are at the funeral, Stede is comfortingly touching Ed, and telling Zheng go back off and give Ed a moment when she wants to immediately go back to business. (Support system!!!!) Consequently, Ed isn't affected too badly by Izzy's death.

And then he gets to retire and become an Innkeeper (a long held dream of his we have been frequently told about) with the love of his life (self-explanatory why this is good for one's mental health).

I beg people actually look at the entirety of the narrative and what massage it is sending. It's not hard. We're beaten over the head with it again and again.

People's mental health improves and they grow as human beings when they receive love and support.

the whole 's2 was about mental illness being cured by magic dick' criticism is actually so fucking funny like how did we get to 'it's bad when a story has a depressed character who feels better when they're with someone who loves them'

my husband in real life: i'm sorry you're feeling sad :( i baked you a cake and i'm gonna cuddle you while you nap

me: okay i feel a bit better now :)

the canyon: smh disgusting narrative

[batsarebetterthanpeople]

one of my pet peeves for modern aus is the ones where they make izzy ed's best friend or longtime friend because if ed's gonna have one... its jack. it's literally supported by canon. like put izzy and jack next to the revenge crew and your answer for who fits in better is jack, whose only crimes in the show were trying to pull ed away from stede and committing seagull murder (all of which to save ed in a plan IZZY made) im so salty about all the hate jack gets in fics

Oh for sure. My least favoriate thing ever is when people put Izzy in another character's position. Jack is Ed's buddy at the very least. Izzy is just a coworker. Jack is who Ed would choose to hang out with 100% of the time if his options are Jack or Izzy. Also if you're gonna give Ed a best friend who is antagonistic to his new boyfriend, Stede and Jack being mean to each other is so much more fun in my personal opinion because Stede is mean to Izzy and Izzy's head explodes and steam starts coming out of his ears like he's in a cartoon and he yells something incoherent, where as Jack and Stede can have a bitchy little back and fourth that leaves Jack crying for sympathy and Stede's self esteem buried six feet under. It truly is the dynamic ever.

I don't usually have a problem with Jack hate in fics actually because jack is hateable and there often needs to be a villain, and in Our Flag so far the roster of villains has been Izzy, Jack, and the interchangeable badminton twins. Maybe the rich french fuckers but I don't want to give them that much credit tbh. so you know he's one of three and a half bad guys so I get it. However! there is one trope that frustrates me, and I think the main reason that it frustrates me is because its a trope that I hate with all of my guts and is pernicious in the calicobeard tag and that is the idea that Ed and Jack's relationship was non-consentual. There are tons of reasons to hate him, you don't have to turn him into a rapist. That's my pet peeve and my line. Otherwise yeah he's a villain, good. I like it when he causes problems. It's my favorite thing.

That being said I do think he's the most easily rehabilitated villain out of every villain in ofmd (I'm only counting Nigel, Chauncey, Izzy, and Jack as villains.) Simply because he's a pirate that we frankly don't actually know that much about. We don't even know why he's doing this. Yeah Izzy probably slid him a slice of that sweet sweet navy money under the table, but for all we know Izzy had that meeting with Jackie and Chauncey, found Jack afterwards and went "Hey man, so me and Blackbeard are on the outs right now and he's got this new boyfriend who is being super hunted by the British navy, the boyfriend is a rich guy and I know how much you hate those. But anyway Blackbeard doesn't know that Stede is being hunted and I just told them where they can find them so somebody should probably go get Blackbeard out of there and it shouldn't be me, because he's mad at me right now." and Jack said "Oh my god, you made a deal with the british navy? I'm gonna love watching Blackbeard kick your ass when I bring him back here. I'm going to now go do some insane shit to save his life again. Yeah sure I'll make sure the boyfriend dies just so that Beardy doesn't run back and get his ass killed, but only if you slide me a few dubbies for my troubles." It's also possible that he's full chaotic evil joker mode and when Izzy told him the plan he went "Yeah alright, haven't seen Beardy in a while could be funny." We simply do not know. Is he destitute because he's been mutinied three times and he needs the money? Has he never been mutinied in his entire life and he's minted because he's Calico fucking Jack and he's just here for shits and giggles? I tend to go with the "he cares about Ed" reading because I want to fuck him, but it's up to you. His backstory is wide open baby. What we do know Ed likes him a lot actually, Ed cares about him and Stede getting along. We know he saved Ed's life, even if he does hold it over his head because he's a shit head(although how often he does that is also a question mark, there's so much blank space to work with with him, he can be anything you want him to be other than nice).

And you know what, until the thing with Karl the crew liked him too. The crew never liked Izzy, whatever Jack's got going on is way more compatible with the crew than Izzy, and yet I see all these fics and headcanons where the idea that Izzy will stick around after all of this is over is just taken for granted. But they could easily forgive Jack if he sucked Ed's dick, moonbathed with Buttons, and slid Olivia some birdseed because he's funny and cool and Ed's buddy. Where as Izzy can never ever be trusted in a million years, he was never fun to be around, and no one likes him. (I'm sure Jack and Ed have fucked each other over before, they're messy bitches.)

Now I don't think Jack's getting rehabilitated in cannon, in fact we're probably never gonna see him again. I'm hoping for a flashback but I won't hold my breath. It's part of why I'm writing I'm Not Going Anywhere. Because somebody needs to put this man through the st*ddyhands treatment and it's not gonna happen in the show, so it is the realm of fanfiction and no one else is doing it. Jack was fucking built for an enemies to lovers because he's the kind of man who stands too close to his romantic rival at the urinals to prove his dick is bigger. Enemies to lovers is incredibly fun to do with Jack and Izzy because Izzy is eminently bullyable and also the kind of guy belongs in one of those "don't bully me I'll cum" shirts, but it can also be fun to do with Stede "pissboots" Bonnet. I'm not sure if INGA is going that direction I haven't decided yet, but someone should do it post haste I'm so serious.

I don't necessarily want everyone to see him how I see him. I'm fine with being his only apologist. back in april the universe decided he'd gone long enough being the most hated character and decided he needed one apologist and it spun the wheel of OFMD fans and it landed on me and I became the public defender appointed to him. I am over worked and underpaid and he is a terrible client. I have made him take a plea deal on the Karl murder charge.

This has gotten unhinged thank you for letting me chew on Calico jack for like 25 minutes.

[sixstepsaway]

Anon is gonna be bitterly disappointed when they read Little Red Riding Hood and find out the wolf needs to have as much story-time as the girl for the story itself to make sense For F@ck Sake Izzy may not be the protagonist indeed but he's among the Main Antagonists, one NEED to make the story also about him for it to advance

HAHAHA. Aren't they just?

But also, there is a Big Difference between a Villain and an Antagonist! Not all stories have a Villain, but most stories have an Antagonist.

Villains are usually evil, they want to hurt everyone, they want to destroy what's being built. Unless they're undercover, they tend to not be a part of the main group. Closer to a villain in OFMD would be the Badmintons, but even they are not really villains.

Antagonists are far different. They promote and create conflict by being in opposition to the protagonist (in this case: Stede. What Stede wants and what Izzy wants are, currently, diametrically opposed) they cannot both get what they want and that is what drives the story forwards.

Izzy has to duel Stede for Stede to win and for Izzy to be cast out so Izzy can then work with the English and Spanish Jackie to go back and 'rescue' Edward from Stede's bewitchment, which causes the Act of Grace, which causes the finale. Without Izzy, none of that would happen.

But he's not a villain. He's an antagonist. And he doesn't have to be evil to be an antagonist. He doesn't have to be bad or have Edward's worst interests in his heart or want to watch the world burn. All he has to do is oppose what Stede wants, and he does.

(Even better is the fact that half the time he doesn't actually oppose what Ed wants, but that's a different discussion)

Antagonists are vital to the plot of any story. Sometimes antagonists aren't even people, they're emotions or effects of change within the narrative.

A list of other antagonists in OFMD off the top of my head:

The entire crew except for Buttons in 1x01 because of the mutiny

Stede's anxiety

Spanish Jackie

Nigel and Chauncey Badminton

Mary Bonnet

The English (derogatory)

King George lmao

Calico Jack

Stede's issues

Ed's issues

In the treasure hunt episode: Lucius when he yells at Ed, briefly

But also Ed in that episode. He's positioned for a good chunk of it as Stede's antagonist

Nana? Oluwande's antagonist. Her desires (Jim getting revenge) are opposed to Oluwande's (Jim with him).

there are more for sure, but this is just my impressions of it.

One of my favorite shows of all times is a Canadian Syfy show called Killjoys. Killjoys introduced a lot of antagonists over the five seasons, but the show itself (much like, in my opinion, OFMD) was, at its core (and this was confirmed to me by the writer), about trauma, processing trauma, and coming out of trauma the other side.

Thusly, there was not one single antagonist in that show-- Okay, one, but he didn't really matter, he was just kind of there so I'm disregarding him right now-- that wasn't, by the end of it, either redeemed or given a chance at redemption.

The abusive father figure? Given a second chance, redeemed, saved the protagonist multiple times, and returned (healed, safe, happy) to his wife.

The 3-season long villain, big bad, everyone is scared of her, she killed my favorite character lmao and likes to torture people for funzies? Yeah, her too. She's redeemed at the end, happy, safe, healing. And I love her.

Antagonists don't have to die or disappear or be written out. Redemption is a wonderful narrative, and sometimes they don't even need redemption, they just need someone to offer out a hand for them to take.

Ah yes, another of my favorite shows springs to mind...

[izzyisafreak]

what do u want to happen in OFMD season 2? 👀

I have so many thoughts, thank you for asking! Here's a probably incomplete list of things I want to happen:

1) Lucius being alive, literally don't care how or why but bonus points if it's funny, and bonus bonus if he's hiding on the ship and that becomes part of a major plotline

2) Would love to see Izzy slowly come to understand that he really fucked up with Ed, and see him try to fix it

3) a scary Kraken the scariness of which mainly stems from him completely losing any remaining sense of self-preservation, thereby leading the crew into dangerous situations without plans (this is the behavior that really kicks Izzy into gear, lord knows he does not vibe with casual disregard of self-preservation)

Just to ramble about that point for a bit, I can see the Kraken being a scary presence on the ship, especially around the others, but bonus points if they make it clear that he's only putting it on in public (i.e. Ed crying alone last season). He had gotten just a glimpse of being able to have what his mother and the world told him he'd never be able to have, fancy things, Nice Things, and whether Izzy understands it or not, I think the way Ed interpreted their convo was through that lens. What was he thinking, thinking he could have that kind of life. That he could try to be a nicer person. He sees the Kraken in himself and he's terrified of it. But now he has convinced himself it's the only thing he's allowed to be. Honestly i don't think Izzy was intending to do anything more than bring Blackbeard the strategist, the brilliant sailor he admired, back. The Kraken doesn't have self preservation, because deep down, Blackbeard doesnt want to live if he's living that way. So i feel like that's going to get the remaining crew of the Revenge into trouble. and as Izzy said "I'm not dying, not for that ponce and not for you." So I see Izzy coming to realize that this is not what he wanted and coming up with some kind of plan to fix it. This might inherently involve some character redemption for Izzy but i really would love for him to stay a grumpy grumpy bastard at the same time. This brings me to

4) Izzy still an angry little man but we get to see his whole antagonistic vibe used in ways that are actually helpful for everyone else. Would be very fun to see him get along with the rest of them, but in the way where he's reluctantly grumbling the whole time and they're all like 'and this is our angry guy that we've adopted, if you look at us the wrong way, he'll probably kill you 😊'

Back to the Ed situation, to combine my earlier hopes into a hope that relies on 1 and 2

5) Izzy (and like the entire remaining Revenge crew except Ed) discovers Lucius in the walls but only AFTER he's already started to realize he needs to do something to help Ed. Then everyone gets to team up on some crazy plan to like, go get Stede or something idk

6) First Badminton brother style, Ed sees Lucius as a ghost and it's both sad and hilarious. Ghost!Lucius is basically the voice of Ed's inner conscience, letting us as the audience hear Ed's internal conflict without him having to voice it himself.

7) speaking of the Badminton brothers, i want there to be a triplet. Then after Stede somehow accidentally kills him in some ridiculous way, I want there to be another badminton, some other family member, inexplicably played by the same actor but now with no canon explanation. I want this to continue in the same inevitable pattern of them dying and another one showing up (always the same actor) until the end of the show. Endless Badmintons. I think it would be absolutely hilarious

8) Jim gets to have some murder attempts, as a treat, mainly of Blackbeard and Izzy, mostly in the early part of the season. Would love it if Izzy is very very aware of the danger they pose whereas Blackbeard comically somehow doesn't notice every single time (if he did that'd be bad for Jim probably so better for him not to notice, also funnier too)

9) would absolutely love to see Izzy duel someone but like in a context where we're rooting for him and he gets to look deadly competent and very very cool. Bonus points if it helps redeem him in the eyes of Stede and/or the crew

10) a slowburn love story for Izzy, like it would not be resolved or even Near Resolved by the end of season 2. I'm pretty biased toward an eventual Pete/Izzy/Lucius because 1) i think it'd be cute and 2) i would die for actual polyam representation, that would be so cool. But I'd take anything, I just want him to start healing

Though to be clear, I don't want it to be the romance that heals him, that's why I want it to be slowburn. I want him to be an active participant in his own healing, would love to see clear signs that he is Trying. He's still a bastard, but he's a bastard who will sit and watch the talent show without complaining. Would love to see moments where he snaps at someone, starts to walk away, stops and grimaces at himself, turns back and through gritted teeth attempts to rephrase whatever he said in a nicer way. Then the fact that he is trying, is getting better in his own way is what opens him up to have more meaningful relationships with other people in the crew.

11) Lots more backstory for the rest of the crew + Izzy. Whether that be through literal flashbacks or just mentions of what they did/where they came from before the events of the show, I would love to get more info about everyone.

12) would love to see Black Pete go through some kind of development re: his what seems to be compulsive lying or strong need to boast about things and the way he idolizes Blackbeard. I think the latter part is going to fizzle out as soon as he finds out Blackbeard tried to murder Lucius. But it would be interesting if someone (I'm biased toward Izzy lol) just kinda confronted him on it and were like, dude why do you do that? You don't need to try to impress people all the time.

I'd like it to be Izzy because I love Izzy but also because I think he'd be like, if you want people to respect you, then just work on being a fucking great pirate. Learn how to sail, how to swordfight. Fuck, if you agree to take it seriously, I'll teach you. Don't make me regret this. That could be a season 3 plotline for all i care i just think it would be fun and would help them both. I want to see Black Pete become truly competent in his own right, get to the point where he can be like, i did this really cool thing and it was badass, and he really did do it, and people really do believe him.

13) during the early season aftermath when it's still just the few remaining crew on the revenge, I want Frenchie to pull off a really cool con, fuckery style, but in a similar vein to what he did on the rich people ship, and i want it to get them out of a situation where they otherwise could have died, and I want everyone to be very impressed, especially Izzy

can you tell i like Izzy, he's in like 90% of my bullet points lmao

14) i want to find out where in god's name the rest of Blackbeard's crew went and where his ship is, it's so funny that he literally just left his ship somewhere

15) more subtitled Olivia, that bit killed me I would love more of that

16) oluwande and jim. More please, i love them. That is all. But also Jim having to reveal more and more about themselves over time and they hate it but it fills oluwande with glee so they slowly start offering more and more information of their own free will

17) i think the whole point of the end of last season was that stede and Mary would never see each other again but also hear me out it would be hilarious if Mary met Ed, like, the 'the love of your life is BLACKBEARD?!" potential is fantastic also Mary is awesome and i love her and would love to see more of her

18) post reunion, we see everyone eat breakfast lunch or dinner several times and each time the meals get more and more ridiculous and elaborate with no explanation and a grinning Roach in the background. Also more doctor Roach. More Roach in general ("come back! it's just a dream!" absolute top tier comedy, i need more)

19) oh and duh i want stede and ed to reunite, however they decide to do it is fine, a little angst would be fun for sure but definitely a happy ending with a really sweet kiss would be great :)

And given that i have almost 20 points here I'm gonna stop for now lmao if i think of any more big ones maybe I'll add on more! thank you for coming to my ted talk and thank you for asking!!

[adickaboutspoons]

It really is SO bizarre that they decided that the season's "Big Bad" should have zero investment in or interaction with the show's main characters after the first episode, and I think it really makes him more toothless as a villain. Like. Think of Chauncey - he's an admiral in the King's Navy and, because of that position, ostensibly dedicated to eradicating the pirate menace, but he cares FUCK ALL about Blackbeard - someone who he identifies as history's greatest pirate - and will blithely let Ed go off to continue to pillage and plunder (under Izzy's supervision, of course) if it means he can get his hands on the man who killed his brother. I mean, it's terrible news for Stede, but it makes Chauncy an awfully compelling villain - putting him in a position of competing loyalties (dedication to family vs. dedication to country/responsibility to the position he's spent his entire life working toward). We don't want him to succeed in his vendetta because we're invested in our show's heroes, but we understand where he's coming from. There are stakes. With Ricky? Like. He gets his nose cut off trying to pull a heist (on land, even. He's not even a pirate - he's just a thief), and suddenly he's anti-pirate. But he doesn't bear any animosity toward the man that inspired him to try his hand at the life, nor who abandoned him to be maimed. Normally you would expect to see a personal vendetta under the guise of a more generalized, socially palatable motivation. Snippets of him hearing about Stede's exploits and Ricky suddenly showing a renewed zeal for "eradicating the pirate menace". Hearing that Stede joined Zheng's crew on the night he abandoned Ricky and maybe peppering in questions about that when he meets with her. Hearing that Stede's at the Republic of Pirates (and being CELEBRATED) and deciding it's time to launch his attack, maybe even against the advice of his tactical advisors who insist that all the pieces aren't in place yet/they're still awaiting reinforcements to secure the town after the attack (thus creating a weak point that Stede can exploit during the escape). But we don't get any of that. Instead it's just. Piracy. In general. That is the target of Ricky's ire. Maybe a little animosity toward the person who cut off his nose in specific, but even then, not enough to enact revenge on her or try to have her killed or maimed or even jailed - just, like, humiliating her a little? (And even so - as much as I love her, Jackie is a tertiary character AT BEST. A sometimes friendly antagonist. There's really just not enough there to ask the audience to be really invested in what happens to her.) And the fact that none of this has anything to do with Stede at all? It contributes to that weird feeling in the last episode that the show has forgotten that Stede is the main character. But it also robs Ricky of any kind of depth. There's no conflict of interest. No stakes for him succeeding or failing to fulfill his goal. He's just a bland nothingburger of a villain.

I feel like Ricky would have been a way better character if they just hadn’t brought him back. Stede Bonnet fanboy Ricky was fun, but when he came back in episode 6 he’s was just basically any generic English naval officer. Theoretically Jackie cutting his nose off is why he’s so anti-pirate now, but not in any way that actually feels meaningful or impactful. And he literally never mentions Stede again! He’s just boring now.

So yeah, have Jackie cut his nose off, and then he’s never to be seen again. Leave us all like, well, probably he died of blood loss or infection or something, but in our hearts he ran off to join Doug, Hornberry, and Jeffrey’s Stede Bonnet Fan club.

[ladyluscinia]

In an ideal world, DJenks could build on Lucius’s poly ideas in “we don’t own each other.” and Stede and Izzy’s (super limited) abilities to compromise with each other (via hostages) and they could both be with Ed and everyone in the love triangle is happy, but that seems super delusional at this point, even if it’d be so cool. So, what do you think a realistic happy ending for Izzy would look like?

I think I pulled up a link I wanted to include to answer this like a day or two after it was sent, and then I promptly got distracted and didn't actually type anything. Oops.

Anyway... happy endings.

So here's a post where I kinda speculated on this before that's worth reading. It brings up some tropes that I think are in the mix of possibilities and how I personally feel about them.

For an answer to your question... The way I kind of see the "compromise" situation coming out of S1 is that all the characters are falling on a sliding scale between two not-ideal extremes of piracy philosophy. One end has Izzy firmly planted as the extreme of Edward's default approach - iron fist, emotionally closed off, total focus on skill and discipline, ruling things through a balance of fear and awe that makes them really good at piracy but emotionally and interpersonally a disaster. The other end is probably Lucius as the extreme of Stede's approach - all focus on interpersonal relationships and emotional fulfillment, wanting to have fun and do no work, flaunting hierarchy, and generally failing piracy in favor of self expression.

(Note it's important that Edward and Stede can't truly hit their extremes - Edward is too seeking of attachment and frivolity even as he bristles at vulnerability, and Stede is too emotionally locked up like a clam to practice what he preaches and now has no money to fund a permanent enforced vacation. They don't really want what they perceive as their culture goal, which is good because both their goals kind of suck in different ways. The Kraken is doomed to collapse because it's further out than Izzy.)

The whole crew, Izzy included, needs to make their way toward the midpoint (which, given this is a romcom, is probably not a true middle but skewed a bit toward Stede and silly hijinks) in order to be successful AND emotionally fulfilled. And I think they can do it!

Like Stede's whole vacation boat and enforcing his own unskilled, atypical piracy in the early eps has already caused friction with his crew. They want to be badasses, face challenges, complete raids, etc. The fact they've grown to like him doesn't mean they've decided Stede's hobbies are better than theirs now, it just means they are more open to doing something silly with him and enjoying it than they were in 1x01. I don't think the show is going to end with "retirement" because I don't think any of the characters really want to retire (including bored-as-hell Edward). And if they are still being pirates - in fact, trying to be good pirates - then it's not unrealistic to think Izzy can chill out a bit via character development and get in on the fun.

This is a guy who met Stede and sliced his shirt up as a hello, and then did literally everything he did in 1x06. He's not an inherent buzzkill of a person lol. He's just stressed.

Izzy and Edward working out their shit is probably going to be a extended part of Edward's general character arc, but once they get through that I feel like Izzy's happy ending will be just moving from lurking on the stairs to being in the circle. Give the man a friend, a knife game, probably a boyfriend for the middle aged love parallels... and throw in a real, much scarier antagonist for S3 just to cement him on the Revenge side (*crossing fingers* please be Hornigold).

He'll do just fine.

[ladyluscinia]

I really cannot make it clear enough that the only people who think Izzy Hands has a massively outsized following in the OFMD fandom are people who aren't paying attention and probably get annoyed by every positive mention of Izzy Hands.

Those of us who do post about him / read fics about him / enthusiastically ship him / whatever are far more likely to quip about how there are whole dozens of us in our corner because that's a hell of lot closer to the reality. But if plain statistics on fics or repeatedly pointing out that tumblr notes are the same people hitting that same reasonable average of double digit reblogs... Idk. Maybe a more descriptive exercise would make this clear?

I'm sorting AO3 by most kudos, looking at OFMD fics with Izzy's character tag (aka the one place he really outstrips the other side characters in numbers). A few observations:

Izzy's name appears in a fic summary for the first time on Fic 6, with "...and Izzy getting disrespected several times." Not much of a mention.

First Izzy/OC ship is Fic 7 (Hell or High Water - a title I recognize but have never read)

First Izzy/Other Character is Fic 17, with Izzy/Lucius, which also appears to be the first Izzy focused fic

Fic 22 is the first appearance of BlackHands as part of a SteddyHands fic

46 Fics in we get the first one Not Technically Ship Tagged with BlackBonnet (a Lucius/Izzy with a "background blackbonnet" tag), and at Fic 63 we get the first Actually Not Ship Tagged with BlackBonnet (a Stizzy fic about bonding over hating Calico Jack).

I think Fic 215 is the first mention of Sam Bellamy? I'm trying to find something specific and it's taking a while...

Oh wait there it is! 216 Fics by Kudos into the "Israel Hands" character tag (out of 7785 total) we have the first BlackHands fic that doesn't have Stede involved. Prior to this there were a lot of BlackBonnet fics, and notable numbers of SteddyHands and Izzy/Lucius. Hell we even hit Izzy/Frenchie and Izzy/Captain Flint before getting to this point.

I'm just really trying to illustrate here that for all the snide accusations and defensive worrying I see about all the sinister Izzy fans trying to make the whole show and fandom about him, "Izzy" content (which this ought to demonstrate is hardly all about Izzy) is just not that overwhelming. Izzy content that excludes or ignores the Revenge crew even less so. Like, run this exercise with any side character and you'll get pretty similar results - seeing as the dominance of BlackBonnet above all else is still ridiculous by fandom standards - but that's kinda the point.

Izzy is a popular side character, which is a thing that tends to happen when side characters get speaking time, characterization, camera focus, exploration of their current and potential relationships (conflict counts), etc. You know, things that Izzy gets a bunch of as an antagonist? Izzy having more content than Oluwande is not really more weird than Oluwande having more content than Buttons or Wee John? I'm not going to pretend that fandom spaces don't drop the ball on content for characters of color pretty often, but the tagged content breakdown in this fandom is not far off from what you would expect by character descriptions alone.

Like the list goes Cool Protagonist / Love Interest -> POV Protagonist -> Live-In Primary Antagonist -> Side Fun Guy with a Death Cliffhanger / Fanfic Gap Ending -> Side Pirate Assassin with a Subplot -> Assassin's Side Love Interest... I mean, maybe Lucius is a bit higher than Jim even for what "Lucius in the walls" fics can account for, or Lucius / Izzy have a bit bigger of a lead than they would without white identifying bias, but that's like? Unprovable speculation at best???

Not remotely comparable to, like, "Star Wars Sequel Trilogy" where Kylo Ren is 46.3% of fics while the two non-white protagonists are only in 35.7% (Poe) or 29% (Finn). Like Poe is technically behind Hux's 35.9%, which is absurd for a secondary antagonist no matter how fun I found his blatant evil. It's like if Chauncey Badminton was neck and neck with Jim or even Edward. That is a content percentage you should question, and the numbers might be worse in "Star Wars - All Media Types" (though Kylo does at least lose to Obi Wan).

[ladyluscinia]

Does everyone in the OFMD fandom remember that Izzy did not go to the island in 1x02 for Stede nor was there any implication he was expected to bring back English hostages?

Because I feel like that's a relevant detail.

Like, yeah, from Stede's perspective that confrontation is a Big Deal. His hostages - the first thing of any value he secured in piracy - were taken away, and he's confronting all kinds of self doubt about being cut out for the pirate life, but he turns it into determination and a plan just crazy enough to work. Getting a hostage back is indubitably a victory for him. And he's riding a hell of high getting to show up the first real pirate he's ever met.

But for Izzy? Does he give a single fuck beyond mild irritation? I sincerely doubt it.

The hostages are an entirely unplanned for bonus that practically dropped into his lap. He didn't even work for them! He walked up to Buttons and straight up asked him what Stede's crew was doing, and Buttons both answered AND volunteered the hostages had escaped and were up for grabs. And Izzy buys them from the natives.

This, btw, is the only investment of any significance Izzy has in the hostages. As long as he makes back the payment he made - which I assume he could easily as the natives probably weren't driving a hard bargain for prisoners they didn't want to deal with - then all the rest of this is a calm walk through the jungle with Fang and Ivan. So when Stede shows up to be difficult? I don't think Izzy was horribly torn up about just fucking letting him take one back.

His first "threat" to Stede doesn't draw a single drop of blood. If Stede bolted do we really think he would have chased him? Then Ivan's nose gets busted by a rock, Fang is being... leg-hugged (?), Izzy is almost certain the crazy man is bluffing about having backup, and the knife to the face is dangerous but he's not being pinned or held or anything. He could have done more, wouldn't have even needed to be particularly competent or badass to do more, but it's literally effort and risk for what? A hostage he didn't have an hour ago, and profits he's not exactly hurting for?

For Stede this is a big victory. For Izzy he still probably made some money and his only loss was a minor bit of embarrassment that he went to bitch to Edward about. This also explains why in 1x03 he's really not upset with Stede. Doesn't want to talk to him, no, but despite the "This isn't over" line for appearances he seemed perfectly content to leave Bonnet to get himself killed rather than starting a revenge plot.

I just think of this every time people are like "Look at Izzy who has been completely losing to Stede since the moment they met!" Like, his narrative role is a comedy antagonist getting defeated by ridiculous antics, but in this case what did he even lose? Stede might feel like he's dunking on him and Izzy is powerless to stop it, but in reality I'm pretty sure Izzy's entire thought process is "Fuck it."

[mysteriouslybluepirate]

THIIIIISSSSSS

I saw a post forever ago that Izzy is the one character we don't get a good grasp of by the end of ep 10.

How I read it: Izzy awoke a beast he didn't predict. We see this in him smiling on the line (blackbeard is himself again), an expression he only has during the scene earlier where he's reassuring the crew about Ed's health post bonnet rejection. When hes lying and trying to convince people hes not.

He wants this but for how long? How long until Edward does something risky? Izzy and Edward both signed fielty to the English Navy, and their bountys will be large. Every move will be under scrutiny. Theyre running a skeleton crew. If they abandon the revenge The Queen Anne is a well known ship. Izzy's goals have always been perceived survival and safety of their way of life.

Now Izzy has issues walking, soon maybe fighting. He's getting older surrounded by people who don't like or respect him. He was only useful in being Edward's hands and eyes. Now what can he do? He needs Edward. But Ed has shown all of s1 how he doesnt need Izzy(At this point in time, Hornigold was a pirate hunter, soon even Edward's old allies will turn on them)

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'Izzy Haters' or people who are neutral POV: Know s2 will not focus on Izzy. Assuming s2 will be about Stede learning piracy as Edward spirals. View Izzy as hateful or a stuck up boss who "doesn't do any work on the ship". They don't read into Cons microexpressions to get the storm hes going through, and focus on Stede and Ed. Izzy is to them just essentially Ed's Marry. Many want to see him done in, and liked his amputation due to the way he functions as a plot device. He's meant to keep Ed trapped in traditional piracy.

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I follow Izzy's POV because I can see so much being done with it! Redemption, an ally and a loyal friend. I believe the show wants to see Stede and Izzy both proven wrong about their misconceptions about eachother. I want Izzy to start to understand the 'Ed' parts of Edward.

There's so much there for us to project onto. Even if season 2 comes out, and Izzy becomes a henchman, I'll still be happy seeing him on screen. I've never had an antagonist in a queer show that is not draped in bigotry, hate, or violence for the sake of violence. Izzy is allowed to be as human as any other side character.

Honestly kind of wish they had made Izzy less sympathetic because I can't even focus on the actual show anymore, I'm just thinking about him and his feelings over and over again, completely ignoring the main plot and characters. If he'd been just a little bit more of an asshole I would have been like "cool, gay pirates" and then moved on pretty quickly but instead I'm here five months later going insane over this old man

[ladyluscinia]

It's kinda weird to me when people set up Izzy as a uniquely hostile outlier to the Revenge crew feelings bubble because like... Ivan is right there.

I mean, it's already ridiculous in the first place to act like the antagonist of the story having - gasp! - character based reasons to not immediately become buddy-buddy with the ragtag friend group is proof he's pure evil and incapable of love. Like... Have you ever seen a story where an antagonist ends as a friend? They don't renounce their prior beliefs or loyalty immediately. That's boring, bad character design, and also fucks up your plot because the antagonist suddenly isn't antagonizing.

But beyond that... Ivan is right there!

Ivan is a lot more minor of a character than Izzy, and he's a lot chiller of a person (side character who goes with the flow), but when people default him into the muppet crew shenanigans (possibly as an extension of Fang) I'm always like... is he though???

Ivan's first meeting with the crew is getting his nose broken, and he bears enough of a grudge to openly advocate for killing them all because of it. He's a more than willing enforcer of the bad cop stick in 1x04. In 1x05 he has a great time raiding and doesn't exactly seem impressed with Stede and Lucius in their observer capacity failing to loot a body, and then removes the guy's gold teeth.

1x06 has Ivan's most "muppety" moments. He comments on Edward being open and available, and then he hugs Fang as he sobs in the doggy heaven scene. People are more than happy to recall the latter while ignoring he does this while directly telling Edward it's time to murder Stede and move on. So now our tally is 0 crew bonding and 2 advocating killing them.

Literally the closest thing to bonding he does is helping mutiny Izzy, and I feel like that's pretty overshadowed by jumping to it when Edward goes Kraken. It's just so weird when people fold him into the found family in the same breath they suggest Izzy is a complete outsider, whether humorously (the long headcanon posts that end with Izzy being completely contrary) or seriously (meta that acts like Izzy is taking a radical anti-friendship stance because evil).

Izzy is literally Just Some Guy. His distaste for the Revenge crew is just kinda normal pirate mindset. Fang and Edward are the weird ones, and that doesn't mean they are the only pirates capable of love or deserving happy endings???