#ivan analysis

[unshallow-feelings]

Since I've hurt myself with this information I'm going to subject all of you to it as well.

It has come to my realization that after My Clematis we have yet to receive a single Ivan cover song. Quite frankly, I don't think we're ever getting another Ivan cover.

I came to the conclusion after thinking way too hard about how Sua has multiple cover songs after her death while Ivan has none. As much as it pains me as a long time Ivan Kinnie to admit I think this is yet another sign pointing towards his death being permanent.

I think I'm a twisted way this is Vivinos telling us the day Ivan died he was forever silenced not only to those in his world but to us as the viewers as well. His voice died with him that day and the only thing that's left is his ghost haunting the narrative.

This realization was the final thing that squashed my last bit of hope at his revival.

I also believe that the theory that Sua's alive holds more validity than any theory about Ivan's return. There are too many signs that point to Ivan not returning.

(Everybody say thank you @rockwgooglyeyes I couldn't have come up with this without you 🙃)

[bluemoonscape]

Actually devastated by the central theme of the Io and Till comic.

Io loved him and yet she knew she couldn’t protect him. She couldn’t keep him. In this world, she doesn’t have the luxury of keeping something as precious and fleeting as Till. He’s a tool and she is his maker. She brought him into a world where she fears he will only suffer. And Till has suffered. Till has suffered so much.

But Io wanted him to be loved. Prayed that someone could ever possibly love her baby as much as she did because she knew one day she couldn’t offer him love anymore. All a mother can hope for is that someone will love you like you deserve when I’m gone.

And someone did.

Someone loved Till. Someone protected him. Someone’s entire life was driven by love for her baby.

Someone on Twitter pointed out that Ivan’s name means “gift of God.”

Ivan was Io’s gift from whatever being she desperately prayed to.

Ivan didn’t think he mattered to anyone, but look.

He was everything Io ever hoped and begged the universe for for her child.

[cloverandstuff]

I'm still hung up on this

Every character that has died in Alien Stage so far has all gotten a comic from their own perspective.

Sua got one where she wants to tell her 'sister' that she found paradise in the hellish place.

Ivan compares his love with Sua's and thanks Till for being the victim for his shallow feelings.

Hyuna makes sense of her love for Luka, and tell him to take his time solving her puzzle.

All of them got to tell their perspective in some way.

...Except Till.

From start to finish, he never had interviews done, he never interacted much with other and just never...spoke.

The only time we ever see him outside of the videos in in the comics from other POV's.

His own death comic was not done in perspective. It was done in his mother's.

And Io loved her son. She cherished him and wanted him to find his happiness wherever he went.

But she never truly knew him. He was snatched away from her far too early for her to ever know him.

Till is a character who we, as an audience, only know from surface observation and the thoughts of others. We have no idea of what was actually going on in his head.

We have ideas for everyone else who are dead, except Till...

...WHICH IS WHY IN THIS ESSAY, I WILL PROVE TILL IS ALI- [gunshot]

[geospiral]

The free LINE gifs on the Alien Stage Wiki don't loop correctly so I tried fixing them using ezgif.com (I also cropped the bottom of alot of them because otherwise it looked like they were just floating instead of their bodies being off-screen like how its meant to look)

Sua:

Mizi:

Till:

Ivan:

Hyuna:

Luka:

Multiple Characters:

[unshallow-feelings]

Oh I love the Pearl and Ivan connections here. (I love when fandoms overlap)

Another thing that I wanted to add was how Pearl's entire worldview changed after she stopped putting Rose on a pedestal and saw her for what she was. The positive memories of their time together were still there and it's true that Rose is one of the many things that make Pearl into the person that she is today but it's only because she made the conscious choice to move on and live for herself.

I want Ivan to be able to look at the world outside of his Till colored goggles and see that the world is so much bigger, complicated and beautiful than he previously knew. I hope we'll be able to see him living for himself in the future

(OR SO HELP ME VIVINOS WE WILL BE HAVING A DISCUSSION)

maybe ivan can get a pearl steven universe type arc without till?? he can still think about till and be reminded of him in others but he can still learn that he can be rebellious. he can live for himself. but even then i think it would be kind of normal for him to think of others like till and unsha even when he’s being independent. i just really want to know what he’d be like if he just. rebelled. if he just starts being himself.

in a song of pearl’s, (do it for her) i think of the lyric “when you live for someone, you’re prepared to die,” a lot when i think of ivan. he was ready to live and die for till. he never really gave a thought about what he really wanted to do if there was no till. it’s hard to change your view on life after seeing it one way since you were a child, so it would obviously be hard for ivan to start living for nobody but himself. he would still think of till. he would still think of unsha. but that isn’t to say that he can’t be an independent person.

i think in another pearl song, (it’s over isn’t it?) another lyric seems fitting for ivan? “who am i now in this world without her? petty and dull with the nerve to doubt her. what does it matter? it’s already done.” (cutting off the last bit there since till doesn’t have a son) with that lyric it pretty much shows how even as your own person, after loving someone basically your entire life, it’s still hard not to think about them, especially if they’re gone now. it’s gonna take ivan a while to get till completely out of his mind.

i want ivan to move on. but i know it’s going to take him so long. and that’s okay because it’s a learning process. i remember when i was younger, i really loved someone and was friends with them for years. this love was platonic, of course, but it was still all encompassing and i really couldn’t think of anyone but them. but then they left my life and never looked back to see how much they hurt me. it’s been nearly three years since they left and i’m not over it just yet. healing from something like that takes a while. it’s going to take ivan a while. but i still want it to happen.

in the show, pearl sometimes sees rose in other people. that can very much happen with ivan. he can look at people and they can remind him of till. he’s allowed to think of till. the thing is, he has to realize that those people aren’t till. and he doesn’t have to give everything for them. they can just be friends, and that’s okay.

maybe he can heal with mizi. the two of them can grow together. i want both of them to be happy in the rebellion and to grow without sua and till. i want them to feel like they’re truly themselves.

[aakaneeee]

Love is presented in many ways throughout Alien Stage: For Mizi and Sua, it's codependent, romantic to a worrying extent. For Ivan and Till, it's one sided, unrequited, and painful.

And for Hyuna and Luka, it's a curse.

Not only a curse, but one that haunts them. Jacob once told Hyuna to "Forgive yourself", which, to her, was misplaced. She could have forgiven herself. It was Luka who she couldn't forgive. But, in the end, she couldn't fulfill the legacy. She couldn't forgive herself for loving Luka. She couldn't forgive Luka for killing who she loved. And so, what did she do? She passed on the legacy.

The words "Forgive yourself" didn't help her. They built who she was, but in the worst possible way. She couldn't take his words, because she didn't consider herself the culprit, but the one she resented.

She told this curse, "Forgive yourself" again. She told them to Luka, sentence that almost sounded mocking on her lips. She couldn't have died before because she had to keep moving forward, but now, the pressure wasn't on her shoulders anymore.

She loves Luka, of course she does. But she cannot possibly forgive him. She knows he doesn't realize the suffering he inflicts. It's ironic, he's so unbearably smart, solving puzzles in a matter of seconds, but he doesn't know how to take in the real world, and the feelings of the ones around him, the most important 'puzzle' of them all. So, she gives him the biggest dilemma of his life. It's harsh, cruel, messed up in every sense. It's the puzzle she knew he could never solve, because she herself, who knew humanity, couldn't. Hyuna knew Luka loved her more than himself. And Hyuna cared for Hyunwoo more than for herself. Luka killed Hyunwoo, and so, Hyuna repaid him with the same coin, an eye for an eye. With an act that is the ultimate sacrifice, and the ultimate revenge.

As I have said, Hyuna knew the love he had for her, beyond the limits of his own body. She must've known how much her act would destroy his world: a fate worse than death. Her kind tone, telling him to take as much time as he needs to solve the newfound question she has proposed in such an ugly way, appears almost taunting.

And the way she holds him in her arms, purposefully close, and looks into his eyes, makes it just so much more painful. And yet, when she speaks her soul, passes everything she was carrying on her shoulders, over to him, her face is hidden away, buried in his shoulder. She's free. She finally had her revenge. She can forgive him, and then herself, even though the price was destroying him, without building him up again. Leaving him like pieces of a puzzle that never got solved. She's been cruelly betrayed, and she, even more cruelly, fed him his own medicine.

Hyuna is haunted by both Hyunwoo and Luka, similar to how Mizi is haunted by Sua. Hyunwoo brings the horror aspect: the bloodied blouse and head, while Luka has the smile that Sua has in the imaginations. The two people she loved most: the one who couldn't forgive her because she didn't get to apologize, and the one she didn't forgive. It's all so incredibly complex: she hates and loves, she resents and adores. Hyuna can't pick anymore. We're shown that she's such an active person, sociable, loving, having a whole group of humans just like her, and yet, we're told that she thinks all of them are selfish, even if they seem altruistic. She doesn't trust them, it seems it's a facade. In this, Luka and Hyuna are similar, but divided by the fact he wants to conceal his emotions, and she wants to make them more visible.

This page, specifically, made me click MiziSua and HyuLuka together. They look scarily alike. The same lovey-dovey expression, versus the distressed one of the lover, even the slight glow that Luka has is similar. I think this is meant to show that they still depend on each other, despite the fact that Hyuna seems to resent him so much.

Hyuna says Luka doesn't know the meaning of love. That the only thing he's ever shown, the only thing he genuinely knows, is suffering, and that his abilities basically stop at inflicting the same. (At least, emotional ones.) This is a parallel to Ivan, in my opinion, who didn't know love either, but he liked the idea of it. Instead, Luka loved with everything he had, even though he had no idea what it truly was. His love is obsessive, and somehow, so impossibly innocent at the same time. Because in a way, he's still a child. When he sees Hyuna, he becomes immature again, his facade of control dissipating into thin air. He mocked Mizi for her inability, but he's even worse.

According to his ear monitor, his heart was beating out of his chest. He could hear his own erratic heartbeat. It's painful, how happy he was, how excited, to be in her arms again. And yet, despite the love, the embrace was just as much of revenge.

Ever since Wiege, we've seen Luka smile so much. Just for him to never truly smile again.

I am a fan of the gentleness that Hyuna treats young Luka with. She seems awfully attached to the image of that innocence she knew. But it's not like Mizi's idea of Sua, the perfect one. It's an image she can't bear seeing again. "I couldn't stand seeing myself on those posters, because I knew exactly the face the you'd have. Yes, I bet you were smiling ear to ear." We've only seen him like this for the first time, but to her, it was so familiar, even years apart, she still knew.

Another thing I have noticed is that Hyunwoo's grave is right infront of a tree, almost separated from the others, just the way Luka was sitting before Hyuna found him. Now, this time, Hyunwoo lost Hyuna, and he's forever forced to be lonely in the garden he'll never grow out of.

Hyuna wanted to give Luka a rubik's cube he wouldn't be able to solve, something difficult. A rubik's cube can represent human nature, who Luka seems to have mastered completely. But Hyuna finally manages to postpone him: the puzzle is herself.

And in the end, after Hyuna's body goes limp, he finally manages to take her in his arms. He promised that there, she'd be safe, but he didn't manage to keep her that way. And suddenly, the words "My Savior" from Ruler of my Heart are awfully true.

[cool-island-songs]

Analysis of ALNST Character Relationship Metrics

My art book won't be here for a minute, but I ran some screenshots I saw on twt through an image translator and have a lot of thoughts:

TILL: Despite claiming to hate everyone in the world, Till ranks Ivan at 70% intimacy even as he identifies perturbing behaviors of Ivan's going back years and refers to him as "a bother". He also ranks Sua at 10% in spite of having little to say about her and finding it uncomfortable to be around her.

Though he postures at being misanthropic and has all the manners you'd expect of a boy who was half off at the human child pound, he's actually quite gentle and sensitive. This is reflected in one of the graduation messages he's left by a classmate as well:

The person he feels closest to is an unattainable crush, and someone who doesn't feel that close with him in return, likely because he's too shy to really approach her or carry on a conversation.

MIZI: That's Mizi, of course, who's rather childlike and naive initially. She likes everyone, but since Till chokes when he tries to speak to her and often keeps his distance, she wonders if he's avoiding her because he dislikes her.

Mizi gravitates towards people who she sees as "perfect", which is how she describes Ivan and Sua in her graduation message to Ivan:

She doesn't see the darker side of Ivan's personality (which has been described on several occasions, even by himself, as "twisted") because he's attractive, successful, and helpful to her.

Though she likes everyone, Sua is her "God", and the only thing that can keep them apart is the tragedy of their situation, which forces Mizi to grow up in a brutally painful way.

SUA: Sua is far less idealistic and naive than Mizi, and has clearly thought about sacrificing herself to save Mizi, since Ivan picks on her for thinking of doing so in an official comic. Accordingly, her feelings about Mizi are far more tinged by the knowledge that they will one day be torn apart by external circumstances. She laments that reciprocating her feelings will one day cause Mizi great pain.

She's always been more somber, and despite her surface similarities to Ivan (which he notes in a follow-up comic wherein he realizes he was wrong about Sua's feelings for Mizi being unrequited), she's quite different on the inside. Sua's more sensitive and thus her colder exterior serves to protect her, whereas Ivan's outward persona creates an illusion of normalcy that doesn't reflect his reality.

Sua views Ivan and Till as a threat and a nuisance, respectively. Like Till, she senses something strange about Ivan, and when it comes to Till, it's just one person too many around for her. This is fascinating to me, because I thought she might pity Till! Her feelings about Ivan were already pretty clear from this panel of the 'piggyback' comic, and she seems deeply hurt in the first comic linked by his prodding.

IVAN: For his part, Ivan is fascinated by Till even though he's content to sit back and observe, pestering him to get a reaction or his attention for a brief time. He doesn't expect anything in return but wants more than anything to be on Till's mind (hence behaviors like stealing Till's belongings and returning them to him, pretending he had found them).

He prefers Sua to Mizi despite his awareness that Sua doesn't particularly like him, seeing her as a sister and even telling her she's "twisted" like he is. He likes Mizi well enough, especially her sincerity, but seems to find her optimism a bit much at times.

The fact that Mizi and the others would likely consider Ivan and Mizi quite close while Ivan does not reflects how much he postures even in his closest relationships. He struggles to connect with those he's most compelled by and it's not clear if he really wants to.

Some Ivantill thoughts before I go:

There seems to be a common sentiment that it's tragic Till was unable to see how much Ivan loved him, and I think we'll likely get more of Till's perspective on Ivan and their relationship in round 7. But it may not be the case that Ivan even wanted his true feelings to be seen, or would have known what to do if Till had reciprocated them.

There's something almost voyeuristic and self-negating in his feelings for Till (see: "I can’t reach you, so I imagine alone/You who shines, I stand next to you" from 'Black Sorrow'). He has far more self-awareness and willingness to accept things as they are than Till, who doesn't see that Mizi only has eyes for Sua and who would likely struggle to accept that reality.

Ivan, on the other hand, is well aware that his feelings for Till are "shallow", a bright fantasy to get him through his dark reality, and he seems to sincerely believe that his death won't scar Till because he's never really broken through to him. He's a schemer, and comments he makes in his graduation message to Till and the interview he gives in advance of round 6 suggest that he may have been planning to sacrifice himself for some time.

Part of me wonders if he hoped it would leave a mark on Till. Choking, kissing, and violently sacrificing oneself are all aggressive, forward acts, especially from someone who used to toy with people to get his kicks but was otherwise quite passive and unfeeling.

There are a lot of parallels in the one-sided loves, like Till acting out of his usual character for Mizi, and Ivan doing the same because of Till, putting all hopes of being saved in something just out of reach, staying in chains for that one special person. But Ivan's psychology is quite different from Till's, and in fact closest to Luka's re: low or no empathy. Both Ivan and Till are significantly traumatized by their upbringings but Ivan's difficult early life in the slums and his experience being dangled off that rooftop seem to have damaged his ability to connect to others or feel much of anything.

Till is the first person for whom he feels anything while for Till, Mizi is an early crush he puts on a pedestal in a much more commonplace way. I think the shared trauma of competing on that stage makes it much more difficult for either of them to imagine moving on, but Ivan is not wrong in identifying that he won't find that feeling again.

The thing that intrigues me most about this series is the way the contestants' differences play out, particularly with regard to how they view love and how they respond to their individual and shared challenges. I'd love to get into it further another time but this is quite long already so thanks for sticking with it if any have (haha)

[tillsfan]

this new vivinos sketch got me thinking.

what if till was way more infatuated with ivan than we thought? what if the whole time, till was actually focused on the both of them, yet due to ivan’s low self worth and unreliable storytelling, we had a complete different perception of him. maybe he was more transparent about his feelings to the both of them.

it would be genuinely insane if when we finally get till’s pov of his life, we get so much more of ivan and much less of mizi than expected. like an even distribution.. main reason i’m thinking this is because of his comic, where he’s seen so much. more chill? around her

he seems a lot more different than what we’d expect based off ivan’s perception of him. this is one of the only instances where his story has been told from someone outside of ivan. it’s very interesting to me.. they’re both pretty prevalent in his comic. they both were in his head. even though it was told by io, i think it’s still worth noting.

i fully believe till acted different and distant around ivan because of his guilt after the meteor scene, as he was likely ashamed of himself. convincing ivan that he wasn’t ever in till’s mind. maybe till felt he didn’t deserve ivan after the fact? i’m sure he was convinced that ivan hated him for it as well. till was probably DWELLING over what happened. it likely weighed him down a lot. in r6, he could’ve been so broken both because of mizi and because he was also going up against one of his loves, someone who tried to help him escape, but he went back on it. in r7, we also saw the meteor scene colors in his ivan flashback. the meteor scene is so heavily associated with ivan specifically, but we’ve seen till so affected by it in multiple instances. mostly in merch. but still.

maybe a lot of his actions were based off of ivan as well, and not just mizi. he’s been shown to be flustered around ivan on multiple occasions..

this is just a “what-if” scenario ramble. i just think it’d be very interesting if it was significantly more different than expected… very very curious for till pov of things. i wonder how much different it would be. we could see how ivan really ruined things for himself, seeing him inhabit till’s mind So Much more than we would’ve ever believed. not saying this is 100% what would happen at all! just ideas.. with how much they’re gatekeeping his pov, i wouldn’t be surprised if his pov completely changed our perception of his relationship with ivan, and till’s character as a whole.

anyways till bisexuality is so real We are so back.

a few more sketches where till is shown to be flustered around ivan. they mean so much to me. ivan you are so clueless

[namelessprayers]

sua: the most honest deed is to sacrifice yourself (because that is the greatest display of love and how to keep it safe).

ivan: the most honest deed is to die (because no one cares, because living is ingenuous, a lie for the sake of getting by for a reason you don't even know, because living was never truthful).

luka: the most honest deed is to kill what's in the way (because that is the only way to attain love and attention and to keep it, the rawest performance of one's life).

hyuna: the most honest deed is to keep living (because it is what humanity does best, because this is how the future survives).

till: the most honest deed is to love (because love is creation, because love defines living, to touch everything and to mark the world by merely existing for the sake of existing).

mizi: the most honest deed is to know (because being deceived is pain, because the firsthand torture of discovery too late rather than sooner is the force of lies and only lies, what kind of life is lived in the dark when only the light nourishes, even the source of the glow itself must be replenished and fueled by some sort of shadow).

[atrophiedemotion]

escapism vs reality in alien stage

in this post (elaborated greatly by geo's tags as well) i mentioned a big sua/till parallel i noticed (but didn't go into much detail because i didn't want to derail the post lol), and i wanted to go into more detail on that and the overall reality vs fantasy theme alnst has going.

sua & till both use their love for mizi as a form of escapism. sua's love for mizi and the weight of her knowledge of their universe causes her to create a safe (fake) bubble for her and mizi to exist in & makes it as perfect as it can be before they're out of time. till uses his love & admiration for mizi as a beacon of hope, as motivation to go on despite how horribly he's treated in day to day life. mizi is the brightness in both of their dull lives.

this view of mizi as a hopeful, optimistic sort-of deity sheds light onto an entire theme of alien stage, escapism vs reality. it also shows that mizi & ivan, in this specific instance, are antitheses of each other.

mizi, as a character, symbolizes hope and escapism. she is the only character out of the main four that didn't understand the exact conditions of their world due to how she was raised. she does not fully grasp how horrifying the alnst universe is until she watches sua die, which is the inciting incident for the entire series. escapism isn't possible anymore, but hope is still there when she gets rescued by hyuna and joins the rebellion.

ivan, on the other hand, literally symbolizes truth and the reality of their world. since he was born he understood the cruelty the segyein are capable of and knows exactly where he stands in the world. he is seen to be fatalistic and even nihilistic. his death, which he sees as an inevitability, is the second inciting incident (the one where everything goes to shit chaos afterward). it is a brutal reminder of the truth of alien stage to both the characters and the audience.

sua & till actively seek out mizi as solace in their pain, and they both actively avoid ivan (in their own ways) and the connections he has to reality.

sua avoids ivan because, well, he's mean to her, but mostly because he's not even trying to be mean, he's just objectively right and she doesn't want to hear it. he is a reminder not only of the cruel world they live in but her own 'twistedness'. he reminds her that she is not solely the fantasy she's created with mizi, but someone with unavoidable knowledge of the inevitable (as well as someone who is willfully keeping this information from an unknowing mizi).

till avoids confronting his feelings for ivan and confronting ivan in general because ivan confuses him. his feelings for ivan aren't cut and dry in the way his feelings for mizi are, because ivan is and always will be tied to pain and suffering for till (their first meeting in the auction shop, their miscommunication/strange relationship, the fact that ivan is the only one who sees him at his most vulnerable, etc). ivan's death forces him to confront these feelings (for ivan & about their world in general) but even then he's repressing them until he physically can't anymore.

mizi is escapism & hope, literally realized because she escapes. ivan is reality & a representation of the fate of alnst contestants, literally realized through his death.

it doesn't end there, though. sua & till are escapists running from reality (with diverging paths that are both narratively important in their own ways), while mizi represents escapism & ivan represents reality. along similar lines, but going a step further, hyuna & luka showcase these exact themes.

hyuna is the legitimate showcase of hope, of freedom. she is a free human (as free as you can get in the alnst universe) and the leader of a human rebellion focused on uprising as a race against the segyein.

luka is the perfect example of compliance within reality. he is now a two time alien stage champion and the definition of a pet, no matter how he actually feels.

hyuna & luka are similar to, but a step beyond, mizi & ivan. mizi symbolizes escapism, but she is faced with reality and must grapple it, while hyuna is freedom personified (albeit with demons of her own). ivan symbolizes reality, but he still yearns for something he thinks he'll never have, while luka completely shuts off those emotions because he knows they will only jeopardize his chances of survival.

the characters of alien stage perfectly embody one of the core themes of alien stage, the discrepancy between fantasy and truth, and the way those can coincide in a world.

[verdantlights]

Round 7 Final thoughts/Analysis

First of all, Blink Gone is a banger but we knew that already.

Second,

Till is and also is not dead. Till was used as a pawn for the segyein for entertainment. Keep in mind this is Season 50. 50 seasons of Alien Stage, and you think they wouldn't go off without a hitch? Till was used to lure Hyuna and Mizi back. Hyuna is worth a lot and Mizi escaped live on stage. Think of the Quarter Quells in The Hunger Games. Do you really think... they wouldn't make Season 50 special? Especially since Luka won S49. It was always rigged in Luka's favor. Or is it? (hey, vsauce here-)

Now. Till was EXTREMELY drugged up. He may have had his fighting spirit back, but he was definitely 'roided up by the aliens for the plan. The Finals were rigged in Luka's favor, it was all rigged in Luka's favor. Those drugs in Tills system, for all we know, can be keeping him alive. There is a good chance they don't want Till dead and that they're only faking his death for the sake of the... "special guests."

It might have been rigged in Luka's favor, but there's a good chance he might not be getting out of this safe, sane, or even alive. He may have captured the hearts of the segyein in Season 49, but he is still a human pet. He is still expendable for the sake of entertainment. None of us character stans, Luka stans, are off the hook. ALNST is not over.

EDIT: I would also like to point out that Luka was probably also on drugs. He was in hysterics pretty much the whole time. Luka is trapped in this cycle and is a pet, just like Till.

As for those "special guests," Mizi and Hyuna: there can be multiple ways this plays out, either Mizi goes against Hyuna, or Hyuna goes against Luka. We already had Mizi v Luka, so they wouldn't do that again.

As for the song itself, I picked up a few lyrics:

Luka: "Before this piercing, radiant moment fades away"

"Piercing, radiant moment" referring to Till and/or Hyuna being injured.

Luka: "Neither today nor tomorrow, exist for me"

"Exist for me" is a reference to Ivan's thought process in why he chose to die in round 6

Till (i think): "Blink and gone, relish the present"

"Relish the present" as in Till needs to live in the moment to survive, rather than to win. He is on adrenaline, drugs, and survival instinct.

Till: "Clear your mind, leave the burdens behind"

A reference to himself that he... basically needs to lock in.

Luka: "The dark crimson air embraces us, lifting our spirits"

Ivan reference, specifically Luka imitating Ivan

Till: "And the fiery thrill blazes out to the sky"

Ivantill meteor shower reference

Now as for the meaning of the song itself, that could be multiple things:

Till realizing too late about Ivan's feelings and that he was wrong about his image of Ivan, "And in a blink, gone."

Till's life, "And in a blink, gone." (which is why i say he's dead and also not dead. He very well could be dead and just be brought back to life like the Sualive and Alivan theories)

Luka's ability to mimic others

Hyunamizi also realizing too late that they might have been set up

I think the flashbacks to round 6 are pretty obvious in what they mean and what was intended for it to mean/symbolize, so I'll spare it.

OH YEAH and speaking of the alivan and sualive theories, those are a LOT MORE LIKELY after this. Because what was the point of Till's death... after round 6? Would they (Vivinos, not the aliens) kill Till off after what happened in round 6? Death is too easy. Death is mercy. Yes I wish mercy upon Till, but there are better ways to show him mercy with what we have without him dying. That being said, if he is actually dead. Like dead, dead, (i will kms) then at least he died where Mizi was the last thing he saw.

Mizi was the last thing he saw.

We might have been wrong about Till only loving the "image" of Mizi, but then again, maybe not. Again, Till immediately lit up at the sight of Mizi, recognizing her instantly. It gave him the motivation to continue, he didn't notice of care how different, traumatized, and worn down she looked. He only saw her. Maybe it wasn't her image he was fond of. Maybe he really did love her. But maybe he was also grasping at straws to survive and continue on. Maybe he thought he had a chance. Cause Mizi was also grasping at straws. As we saw in the flashback with Mizitill, they were definitely friends. Mizi might only see Till as a friend, but now both would only have each other left, plus Hyuna and the resistance. Mizi might not give Till a romantic chance, but they can be there for each other because they both understand what the other went through.

Also Issac and Dewey better pull through I swear to fucking god. WHY WERE THEY NOT THERE. If you saw my bingo card, I marked off Dewssac appearance, I thought I saw them, but I was seeing shit so ignore that.

Personal note: I was really. REALLY overwhelmed leading up to this. I lost a lot of sleep over the past 48 hours due to anxiety over this and I'm glad that it finally happened. I'm a lot better now that my anxiety and nausea is gone and even if I'm extremely... scared... for Till... I'm still hopeful that he's alive, and that sualive and alivan are real. Maybe I am delusional, but I mean, I enjoy the Actor AU a bit too much... so...

That's all, I think. I might have more later after I stew on this a bit more.

@pwippy @starry-skiez @bluemoonscape @ivanttakethis @tsukacchako @shakingparadigm @rosedeleca @crustyfloor @k9punkout @junebluues god i cant think straight im sorry if youre not tagged and wanted to be im like gen tweaking tbh

[seviinoxiel]

Alien Stage Round 6 Thoughts

Ivan hated that kiss. Ivan hated that he had to resort to forcing himself on Till to save him.

He has always mourned that Till does not look at him but he is also, at the same time, satisfied with the distance of his unrequited love. The fact that he had to close that distance and literally hold Till in his grasp is a testament to how far he is willing to go and how much he is willing to sacrifice for Till.

Ivan broke his own boundaries as much as he broke Till's and he established a connection with Till that risks subjecting him to pain just to save him. Ivan looked down on Sua for leaving behind Mizi all alone with a broken heart and called her actions selfish, but Ivan likely realized that perhaps it is that selfishness that is needed to save his Till.

The deep love that Ivan harbored for so long was only truly realized in an act of sacrifice, by reluctantly taking active steps to have Till see him at the cost of his life and the safety provided to Till by an unrequited love. Ivan pulls Till into his embrace in the form of that sacrifice, telling him, "I am here. Look at me. I love you, so you must live. I'm sorry."

[crustyfloor]

blinking the gun to my forehead and then I'm gone (laughs)

Till, as a parallel to his All-in cover enters the round with a strong presences, unmistakably making his presences on stage known, he looks angry and tired, but he's not in that "catatonic" state that he was in during ROUND 6 anymore.

the moment Till lost his composure and started to stress and panic, the moment he looked back at the gun in the crowd, blatantly aware of the looming threat and openly feared it--was the moment Luka knew he had him right where he wanted him, when Till's mental instability and desperation caught up to him, his inability to contain his emotions completely consumed him, and then, there was the struggle. And Luka revels in the power he holds over Till's head, and the way Till can do nothing about it, not in this state. Till's guitar motif remains prominently in their singing, showing that they're on equal footing, but there is an obvious power dynamic at play underneath this thin veil of a "performance".

Luka does everything right to appeal to their audience, charming the audience with his allure, with perfectly exceptional skills, and constantly showing that he is superior, Luka is the model of a perfect pet-human. Till is contradictory, being naturally rebellious, he was never and would never be content being stuck in a cage to confirm like Luka can, because Luka was trained for in every aspect to fit the role of a perfect pet-human to please the Segyein in every way he acts down to the rhythm of his heart, he is truly a "one of a kind" to the Aliens--and it is all thanks to them that Luka is who he is today, it is in Luka's nature to adapt and obey, Till doesn't accept his environment and actively fights against it.

Till is talented, passionate, and incredibly skilled at his craft, but it didn't matter that all of his songs were hits, it didn't matter that he was very promising and popular. Because the aliens look for a spectacle, a toy, not a human, and Till is so overwhelmingly human. His nature comes back to bite him no matter how much he tries to deny these complexities.

Till tries to stand his ground and regain his control, but even then, he was easily agitated when taunted and provoked by Luka. Luka knew exactly which button to press, unsurprisingly, Luka had seen and analyzed everything from ROUND 6, so when he touched Till's neck and his face in such an intimate manner that could only remind Till of the trauma of ROUND 6, he faltered easily despite himself.

--"The dark crimson air. Embraces us, lifting our spirits" (Possibly in reference to Ivan, because later Till has flashbacks of round 6 with red tint)

--"And the fiery thrill. Blazes out to the sky" (A reference to meteors? then I want to connect it back to Ivan again, because on that night Ivan and he almost escaped, that was probably the happiest he'd ever looked with Ivan, the rush of freedom was thrilling, but he went back to stay with Mizi)

The taunting doesn't even end there, sickeningly. Till is forced to reminisce on the events in round 6, remembering exactly how Ivan's face looked before he fell, and at this point, Till is starting to feel the pressure.

Even suffering physical affects-- a nosebleed from the strain and stress of it all on his body, even just thinking about Round 6 causes such an immense reaction--I'm assuming that this is a result of the experiments and abuse Urak inflicts on him, even just general stress . Because one thing Urak prides himself on is pushing his Pet-Humans to the absolute limit to recognize their talents, be it any method, but without any regard to their mental health. But the sheer cruelty of this treatment doesn't lead to any of his pets living long, Till, having been the last one standing out of all of them, was meant to follow that cycle sooner or later, he had already shown signs that he was deteriorating. This along with the drugs they may or may not be making Till take to keep him compliant. The state of his conscience only seems to get worse the longer he pushes himself, and he puts a strenuous effort into not collapsing.

I'd really like to highlight Till's performance and how strong it actually was during Round 6, Luka's manipulation will intentionally make his opponents look weak, at least, to the ignorant Segyein, despite his struggling Till still managed to make a worthy opponent, if the points he gained were anything to go by--had he been given the opportunity to keep performing without Luka's intervention I think Till would have had better chances of winning (even if by a little). Despite being mentally unstable and physically drained he could still put up a fight next to the likes of Ivan in Round 6 and even Luka, but this round, brought out all of the weakness in Till.

This stage was built on the foundation of Till's despair and meant for Till's demise. And to a t, Luka has every advantage, Luka revels in the control, and feels a sort of giggly euphoria from seeing Till struggling. (It feels very obvious to me that there were some favors put in place here for that to happen.)

Wherever he turns, Ivan's face is plastered on all the big screens so that Till is unable to avoid it. It's almost dizzying the way the camera moves, the flashing lights, the overwhelming purple that symbolizes Luka's complete control. the chaos is meant to symbolize Till's feelings, Ivan looks more stifling as he looks down on Till with such a intense gaze. That pressure, symbolically and quite literally, physically weighs on Till, just close to pushing him to his breaking point. In the end, Ivan is a trauma to Till, a trauma that Till can't even begin to come to terms with or approach. Then, a tool to be used against Till. Luka uses this weakness to his advantage, forcing Till to feel the pain, the anger, the memories, like a prison of his own grief and regret that he can't escape.

--"Oh, in a blink, gone forget everything and just enjoy"

--"Oh, in a blink, gone don't miss this moment"

It's one of the more prominent call-backs to ROUND 3 when, from the perspective of the manipulated, this isn't comforting in the slightest. It isn't at all loving, even though it's gentle and familiar. Luka's type of manipulation tricks the mind into thinking about loss, love-- Luka blurs the line, love and loss, hatred or regret--because you can not feel loss without an attachment, Luka prods at the unaddressed feelings Till has about Ivan, and his subconscious attachment Ivan, it churns Till's inner turmoil, the guilt, the grief, Ivan's frozen grin and eyes staring back at him. It is horrific for Till to be confronted like this, when he puts so much effort into avoiding these feelings, it's pulled to the forefront of his mind, that Ivan died, that Ivan had feelings for him.

And that is why this type of framing is fitting for them, Till's true feelings about Ivan are hidden and misconstrued, even by Till himself as he shoves them down and replaces them with something more easier to rationalize--hatred. His avoidance of Ivan as a whole, and the events of Round 6 is exactly why Luka targeted him this way. Overall like I said before, Till's perspective of Ivan in his memories will probably never be 100% clear, because he is reserved, subtle, and he would be actively repressing them, he is actively avoiding confronting his grief, and the only time he does is when he's forced too, because just from the Round 6 flashbacks stained in red, haunted by death. And reminiscing about all those moments of hurt, annoyance, even affection for Ivan just adds to his spiraling storm of confusing emotions that he can't understand, Till replaces sorrow with anger and channels it into his song, only for it to be used against him.

It is only when Till sees Mizi that he snaps out of it. When their eyes meet, it's like Till is reawakened and immediately regained his composure, hyper focused on finding her in the crowd. Luka notices this and, for a brief second, looks concerned, confused, but he is quick to reel his expression back into something neutral, but he looks at Till in discomforted, Luka can't afford to look anything but the more dominant on stage, but he's baffled to see Till get up again and keep moving, he just wouldn't go down without a fight. Luka addresses Till subtly and aims to reaffirm his sense of control to no avail.

Till desperately staggers to reach Mizi, in that moment, Till is childish again; he looks like a little kid, blushing with wide, bright eyes, and he is genuinely so, so happy to see her. Even his light indicator is changed from red to green in such little time. Mizi's signature pink light shines bright on him as he reaches out with an outstretched hand, and in his perspective she welcomes him warmly, just like she always does.

And then, in seemingly the blink of an eye Till is abruptly shot before he can reach her. Mizi has to watch Till die. And the nature of his death is so visceral Mizi is heartbroken. You would wonder why it is so quick to happen, put yourself in Mizi's shoes, she was so close and they were so happy and just like that--it's over. It goes to show how fast the Aliens shatter humans, even when they least expect it, when they both feel so free and hopeful in the moment. Life, especially their life, is so incredibly un-fucking-fair, but that is ultimately their reality. The Segyein do not care.

It's interesting how Till and Sua's death scenes parallel, even just visually, but more importantly, Mizi's role in both events. She is horrified by the realization that she is totally helpless after believing she can change reality, the reality that Till couldn't be saved, and the reality that Sua had lied to her. key difference, however, Mizi didn't know about death before Sua's death, with Till she knew that was a possibility but was desperate to not lose the last friend she had, so she made a foolish choice because of that childish hope she never let go of.

Immediately we go to a flashback. This scene, in particular, broke me completely, this whole scene goes to show just how close they were as friends, how affectionate and kind Mizi was with Till, even despite his more reserved nature, often keeping to himself and keeping a particular distance between them, still, Mizi and Till have a special bond. it's so important for the both of them that this is highlighted because their friendship is incredibly valued by the both of them. These little memories that Mizi looks back on are the reason why she cares for Till so much. And the innocent nature of Till's love for her is bittersweet.

Till reminisces about the comfort of Mizi's smile at that moment, the one thing Till wanted to protect. One of the many things about her that he fell in love with. Even if they live a cruel, unfair life, Mizi was always gentle and compassionate. It's a stark contrast to when it cuts back to the present and her face is full of tears, even when HyunA warned her she had gone all this way, risked her own life to save Till, despite not knowing him so much, her attachment to him as a childhood friend was more important to her than her sense of self-preservation.

--"Before this piercing, radiant moment. Fades away"

Because Mizi always valued her relationships. He was family, the only family she had left--she was desperate to save her remaining family from such a fate, she knew what was going to happen as soon as she saw him on that screen, maybe, just maybe she can do it. she has to. But they were doomed to despair from the start, they were born into it. Mizi naively thought that if she couldn't save Sua or Ivan, she could at least save Till.

Till can't even bring himself to smile back at her as she weakly tries to comfort him in his last moments, pulling hair out of his eyes and cradling his face. Again, he seeks out her comfort, and tries to comfort her when he touches her hand, but he doesn't die with a smile on his face, he can't even force one because he doesn't want this; he doesn't want to die, and ultimately, he doesn't want to leave Mizi. But he's content with staring into Mizi's eyes as he drifts off, because Mizi is here, he's at peace.

The gentle lullaby for the background music just makes this scene so much more depressing. It's too lighthearted and sweet for a scene like this. When he was a child, Till was hesitant to get close to Mizi, and a lot of people out of fear, doubt, and all kinds of feelings that he'd learned to repress after so many years of living. In his final moments, he was vulnerable, and he was a quiet, gentle melody. That's how I think this atmosphere represents Till more than the brash, loud one that he often adopts. He's a cold, hardened shell with a soft interior. When he's able to be himself, he's just a gentle child, an isolated, abused, sensitive child. His death might be the saddest yet because he had grown up a fighter, he had lived all of his life fighting against The aliens, hurt, abuse, everything, to avoid the very moment he is beaten down into something human and unimaginably vulnerable, when Till stopped fighting back and instead reached out to comfort, to hope, he died. I'm just so glad that Till had comfort and was loved during his final moments until the end.

His relationships with the two most important people in his life are framed like this, darkness and brightness. Ivan is with him in his darkest moments, and Mizi is the brightness Till finds comfort in, Where Ivan is intimidating and confusing, Mizi is safe, and he gravitates towards her like it's instinct. He would never associate her, the girl who is so pure and sweet, with trauma, to ruin her idealized image of her in his head. But even if she looked differently to him now, seeing that she came back to him, he didn't hesitate to run to her. After all, his words in ROUND 2 weren't a bluff. He'd wholeheartedly love her regardless no matter what happens, because it's Mizi. Till's last thoughts being focused on Mizi shows us just how much he looked up to her, Ivan's death was impactful on him just as much as it was traumatic, similar to the karaoke scene, Till focuses and reaches out to Mizi, to blinding warm light, to forget about every pain in the moment. Till dies using that same coping mechanism and it tells me just how hopeless he was in that moment, wishing for any better situation than this, but still. He had her.

(Now, how will this development affect the other characters? I don't think Alien stage, the show, is over yet. Now that Aliens have all their rogue pet-humans back where they want them with no easy way to escape--I think Mizi and HyunA will be used if they don't manage to escape in time, to compete against each other? to compete in the new season or against Luka? no idea, honestly. But I hope they kill Luka cause FUCK that guy.)

[cloverandstuff]

Allow me to psychoanalyse this drawing-

I think this drawing was made by Luka. Mainly, due to the fact that Hyuna is the one drawn with the most detail. I think it's also fairly obvious with how it's drawn, that it was made by Luka when he became friends with the siblings.

That leads me to my next point; Luka did not dislike Hyunwoo. I'd even go as far as to say he regarded him in a positive manner. He is the only other person here besides Hyuna who is not blonde.

Now, why is everyone else blonde? I think it's because Luka was imagining a life with his clones and the siblings, in Anakt Garden.

He looks horrified in this scene. It doesn't seem like he took joy or even feels numb here. He looks to be in genuine shock over what happened.

The body don't have a single stab wound either. None that we can see. All we see is the cases they're in shattered. Like they were released and they weren't able to survive.

Here, he's just looking at them. No attempt to get closer, nor to destroy them. He just looks on.

The drawing makes me think that Luka was seeking out other people. He was, in every way, a lonely child. He wanted a sense of belonging. He wanted him and his clones, and Hyuna and Hyunwoo to all just...live happily in Anakt Garden.

And with the few frames we get of this incident throughout, it does seem like Hyunwoo was the one to throw the first punch. Luka never initiated a fight, he always just annoyed Hyunwoo who would respind angrily. It didn't make sense why he would just randomly kill Hyunwoo.

With this, it makes more sense. Luka killed Hyunwoo through an accident. It was a fight gone too far. He does not feel remorse, but it doesn't seem like he actively wanted to kill him.

If this is truly the case, then while Hyuna is right to hate him because he does not feel conscious regret over this, her speech at the at also makes sense. Because she knows he truly is just...clueless.

Luka has never truly allowed himself to mourn loss, or regret actions. He was constantly chasing a high, which he got from Hyuna. He loved her, he truly did. But it was initially borne out of her giving him a sense of belonging.

He loved her because she gave him what he was seeking out from his clones; to erase the loneliness he felt.

Luka is clueless about his own emotions. Him and Ivan are alike in that sense. They both are unable to properly understand their feelings. But while Ivan allows his love to be a silent protector, Luka is much more childish and desperate.

Luka, in every way possible, is just a lonely child.

[geospiral]

A bunch of different autograph doodles that I don't think I've seen on here before because I want to save them!

[q8qwertyuiop8p]

Dark Details of Arcane Season 1

Five of some of the darker, more morbid details you might not notice watching for the first time.

1. Silco's Shadow

In s1e6, when Marcus opens the door to his daughter's bedroom, Silco leans forward to place cards on the house he and Ren are building. For a brief moment, however, his shadow appears to be strangling Marcus' daughter.

This eery juxtaposition of course foreshadows the threat Silco will soon make to Marcus and the hidden danger he poses to Ren. It is also ironic considering what happened to Silco.

2. Jinx's Voices Trying to Convince Her

In s1e9, during the dinner party scene, you can hear a voice whisper something to Jinx after Caitlyn points pow-pow towards her. It is difficult to make out, but listening closely you can hear:

"It's time to leave them."

This prompts Jinx to whip her pistol out towards Caitlyn, who is already aiming towards Jinx, nearly getting killed in the process.

Supposedly you can hear this phrase during some other scenes involving her psychosis, however this is the only scene in which it appears in Netflix's subtitles.

Earlier in the scene Vi tells Jinx that:

"We can just go... we'll leave and never come back!"

This triggers Jinx's psychosis. She asks where they would go, looks over to Mylo, and says,

"No... no, no, she's not saying that..."

3. Message to Silco

If you look closely at the table in the dinner party, you can see that Jinx, furious and hurt after overhearing Silco's apparent plans to "betray" her, wrote "DIE" on the table in front of him.

After accidently killing him, Jinx looks down emotionlessly at the table, exactly where she wrote that word.

4. Painting Parallel

The scene of Silco cradling Jinx on the bridge is likely meant to be a visual reference to the 1880s painting Ivan the Terrible and his Son by Russian artist Ilya Repin. The story behind the painting parallels a different scene.

The painting depicts Ivan cradling his dying son after he struck him on the head in a fit of rage. Ivan is horrified and grief-stricken at what he has done, placing his hand over his son's wound in a hopeless attempt to take it back.

This foreshadows Jinx killing Silco when she is no longer in the right state of mind, as well as her immediate shock and regret. She even begins to place her hands over his wound before realizing there is nothing she can do.

5. Aftermath of the Bridge Explosion

In episode 8 when Jayce visits the bridge, we get a brief shot of the aftermath of Jinx's explosion, and looking more closely one can see just how gruesome it is.

Blood splattered everywhere, intestines spilling out, blown off limbs, and even brain matter can be made out in this graphic scene. The rest of the shot, however, is very beautiful.

Arcane was originally going to be even bloodier. In the storyboards Jinx punches the arcade so hard her knuckles bleed all over it.

In the original layout animation, blood sprays on the camera when she bashes a firelight with Pow-Pow, and she even smiles with glee. Mylo's death would also be much bloodier.