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tricktster · 5 years ago

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the twilight series suddenly makes 100% more sense if you read them under a specific premise that, i contend, is heavily supported by the text:

Much like Amy’s diary in Gone Girl, the books in the Twilight Saga are verbatim reproductions of in-universe diary entries carefully and deliberately created and curated by badass unreliable narrator Bella Swan as a means to achieve immortality.

Prerequisite assumptions:

1) Bella actively and persistently wants to become a vampire, both diagetically and (I contend) non-diagetically. The average vampire novel format often fails to capture realistic human behavior in one highly specific area: the protagonists are frequently mortals who grapple with the choice of whether to become a vampire. This is stupid, because being a vampire would obviously be dope as hell; particularly in the Twilight Universe, where vampires are not required to take a human life to survive, and indeed, have the capacity to live full and rewarding lives while integrated* into the human community.

(*integrated-ish; see Assumption 6)

2. There are too many coincidences for Bella to have encountered the Cullens by sheer chance, only to be the ONE person that Edward can’t live without (due largely to the novelty factor of not being able to read her ding-dang thoughts.)

3. Diagetically, the Volturi don’t even know Bella’s psyonic gifts until New Moon, but we also know that the Volturi scour the globe for recruits to enlist into the protection of their governing body.

4. Nobody wants to be a voiceless cog in a bureaucracy.

5. Nobody, and especially nobody in high school, wants to be a high school student forever.

6. Vampires in twilight are, as a group, cartoonishly terrible at disguising their true nature.

7. Forks is a backwater town approximately 3.5 hours away from the biotech hub of Seattle.

7. George W. Bush and Dick Cheney can eat my farts and they deserve to be preserved in this snapshot of an innocent author’s mind slowly unraveling.

Proposed timeline:

In 1993, there is a key system meltdown at a improvised biohacking startup in Seattle, rendering all innovative genetic modification experiments into a puddle of brown sludge that nobody can figure out how to dispose of per Federal regs, since they don’t even know what it is.

The broke founder of the startup, who for the purposes of this timeline I will call Jeff Bezos because that’s who it was, eventually grows tired of all the discussion about what to do, and just pops it in a barrel, drives a few hours out of town, and dumps it in a pond.

Bella Swan, a small child, is hanging out at a park with her family friend Jacob Black (and a ton of his friends) when they all decide to wade in a slightly murky pond. Thereafter, they are transformed.

Bella grows up as a normal, highly powerful mutant with a +20 to deception checks and wisdom saves. She lives in Arizona, but up until 2002, summers in Forks. While in Forks, she picks up on the local lore about a family of vampires who don’t eat people.

Because Forks (population: 17 + Charlie’s mustache) is boring, Bella bones up on the only interesting thing about it, i.e. Vampire Hometown baybeeeee.

In 2000, George W. Bush gets elected president, and his evangelical politics and general bumbling ineptitude informs Bella’s opinions on authoritative governmental entities.

In 2001, the Cullens make their intention to move back to Forks known, but they take a while because they need to pack all their stupid graduation hats and volvos, etc.

Later in 2001, a psychic Volturi scout rolls through Forks to ensure that nobody within living memory recalls the Cullens, and notices an anomaly in the psychic field.

The scout goes to confront Bella about joining the Volturi, and Bella immediately clocks him as a vampire, because vampires in the Twilight Universe fucking suck at looking/acting human. This leaves the scout in a bind: she’s too valuable to kill, but she’s a pre-teen, and therefore too young to be transformed per Volturi authority.

The scout warns her he’ll have to kill her if she discusses the existence of vampires with any human. He then tells her he’ll be back in five years, and begins to sweet talk her on how good life will be when she’s a vampire, beautiful, immortal, powerful, etc. Bella asks if she has to kill, and dude says “nah, actually there’s a bunch of vegetarian vampires who are moving back here soon. Fucking nerds, but otherwise they’re doing well.” Bella is all about becoming a vampire, because Bella is a rational actor.

Bella moves to Arizona, and as the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq are unjustifiedly initiated, she recognizes that while she DOES want to be a vampire, she does NOT want to be a foot soldier in any war that she can’t support. She needs a plan.

In 2004, Bella is watching her step-dad’s minor league baseball game when it occurs to her. On her own, she’s a target for the Volturi, but if she had some people to watch her back, she might be okay. Of course, nobody fucks with the Volturi on behalf of some rando human. She’ll need to con her way into a coven who’ll have her back and also give her that +10 to constitution via vampiric transformation, which she desperately wants because she’s a rational actor. And where are the non-volturi vampires that might have her back? Fucking Forks.

Bella moves to Forks in 2004, and upon seeing the Cullens, she immediately clocks them as vampires even though they left their “we’re all vampires” booty shorts at home, because, as previously discussed, vampires in the Twilight Universe fucking suck at looking/acting human.

Bella notes that all the vampires but one are paired off in heterosexual bliss, and takes note of the straggler as a potential vehicle to vampyrdom.

Bella figures out that Eddie can read everyone’s mind but hers, because Edward Cullen fucking sucks at looking/acting like a human who can’t read minds. Bella further observes that Eddie has a huge undead boner for her.

She’s found her mark. Now she just needs to convince him that she’s better off as part of the coven than on her own. Problem: Eddie’s a self-pitying insufferably guilt-striken perpetual adolescent who keeps himself busy by feeling sorry for himself because he’s a vampire, angst angst angst etc etc. Also, I think he’s Catholic, so add some more guilt in. She’ll have to win him over by convincing him that they’re destined to be soulmates.

What does a vampire used to having complete insight into everyone’s mind but his crush’s want? A method to know what she really thinks of him. Bella begins writing a “diary” knowing that there’s no way in hell Eddie won’t sneak in and read it. So she Gone Girls it, and begins to lay a trap to lure him in. That first diary? Twilight.

This was just in the movie but a stoner chases her around with a worm on a stick. Nothing to do with this theory, I just like that part of the movie. Where’s my spinoff about that guy?

Eddie won’t give Bella what she wants (eternal life) by the end of book 1, even though she asks him to EXTREMELY POLITELY. Time to hit the diary with some more promises of undying love.

Bella reconnects with her old friend Jacob and the rest of the Mutated By Jeff Bezos Boys. Alas, they cannot turn her into a physically powerful sexy immortal with a bite, so she’s still stuck with plan A) win over a whole family of vampires with big Mormon energy. It’s the long con.

Edward’s angst abruptly takes a swing towards terminal. He’s absolutely your classic sadboy, perhaps because Bella now has one (1) friend that he knows about.

When Eddie begins to drift away on account of Angst, Bella conjurs up a secondary love interest who, coincidentally, is ALSO a sexy supernatural entity, and is much less coincidentally just Jacob.

We should establish here that Edward is like a 107 year old white dude and so even though Diary!Bella pretends not to see it, Metatextual Frame Story!Bella knows that dude is super racist.

Jacob Black is three things: 1. Like Bella, a mutant (although one with shapeshifting abilities), 2.one of Bella’s oldest and most trusted confidants, and 3. down to clown on an elderly teenage vampire who keeps stereotyping him. Sure, says Jacob, I’ll take the form of a werewolf. He seriously thinks we’re all just beastmen, huh? Hey look at me now, I’m Regis Philbin because this is 2005 and Who Wants to be a Millionaire is still sort of relevant. Sick.

Edward does not like that Bella has one (1) other friend. Bella and Jacob plot to use this to their advantage and lure Edward back on the wings of jealousy.

Eddie gets himself into trouble on account of Angst and poor communication, so Bella has to go rescue him from himself/the Volturi.

Aro finally meets her and gets to test her powers, which impress him. Now she’s back on the fucking radar.

I forget everything that happens in Eclipse, so i have chosen to omit that part.

Eventually she extracts a quid pro quo from Eddie; i’ll marry you if you turn me into a dracula.

We don’t really call ourselves that, Wet Blanket Cullen replies, entirely earnestly.

Bella gets married at 18 in 2006, and Eddie starts to backtrack his promise about changing her. This won’t stand.

Well, look, he’s an elderly guilty catholic/mormon teen who probably still uses super racist terms, but she’s stuck on honeymoon island, he has certain angles that work for him, and seriously what are they gonna do but fuck? Bella’s alternative is listening to her “husband” drone on about his interests, which are almost certainly Car, How Do I Post a Minion Picture on Facebook, and Licorice Used To Be a Lot Cheaper in the Good Old Days.

Whoops a fetus.

Bella recognizes that she’s GOT to have this baby: time’s running out, and Bella knows that at least two of the Vamps in her coven will cut ties if she terminates or otherwise fails to carry this baby to term because of the conservative religious subtext. She’s going to have to stick it out for 9 months, even though it’s a risky call.

Bella gets what she wants after giving birth. “My time as a human is over, but I've never felt more alive. I was born to be a vampire.” That’s a direct quote. Except now she’s got a (pretty cute and easy) baby that she desperately wants to protect from Turning Into A Vaguely Religious Cullen Dressed Head To Toe In Cream Colored Wool.

Bella decides to fake her own death and escape with the kid and Jake so they can form i guess a detective agency. Bella will get “killed” by the Volturi, move to Sydney, and open up shop, and Jake will take the kid after her a few months later.

They’re gonna need a reason why Jake gets the kid though, and there’s only one reason to do anything amongst the Cullens: a heterosexual love interest with a super problematic age gap.

Jesus, Jake sighs, is Eddie really going to believe I’m in romantic love with your actual infant? Does he really think that little of me?

Yup.

Bella tries to draw the Volturi’s attention.

Works too well.

The Cullens call up all their vague acquaintances, who are at least kind of fun. Particularly that one dude who keeps getting angry about British conduct during the American Revolution.

Well, fuck, now the Volturi are bringing an army to fight their ragtag army of Vampires Who Are Cool And Interesting Enough That We Can Safely Presume They Are All Definitely Gay. Bella can’t let those guys die, they’re the first actually compelling vampires she’s ever talked to.

Bella saves the day because she’s OP.

All the Cool Vamps start packing up to leave and Bellz almost goes with them, but the Cullens would just keep sending missionaries after her if they knew.

Bella finishes her fourth journal with the vague warning that the Volturi are still out there somewhere and they miiiight just try and get her.

Two days later, she stages a scuffle and gets the fork out of Fucks. Her journals are the only clue.

Sirius Black and baby nessie follow once edward has stopped sobbing into his cream colored sweater and moved on to Extended Power Pouting.

Bella recruits her own army of fledglings.

Bella stages a coup against the Volturi and succeeds.

Bella sits on the iron throne with a hot lady vampire on each knee and they all kiss and stuff.

Nessie I guess forms a post punk band?

Edward dies from aspiration of a brussel sprout that he ate because he just wanted to feel something.

Charlie and Billy get married.

Charlie’s mustache develops a cult instagram following, providing them with a modest retirement income.

Jacob shapeshifts into Bill Murray and is always crashing weddings.

Bella’s stepdad is off in the B plot this whole time winning the world series with the help of a kooky angel.

There. Fixed. My soul is at rest.

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mitsurugi28 · 3 years ago

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Addressed at SPN CW

DISCLAIMER: This was written as part of my Creative Writing course. We read the pamphlet Killing Noe Murder (which advocates the assassination of Oliver Cromwell), and were tasked to write our own 'Death Threat'. Which is to say, I am not actually threatening anyone at the CW; this is simply to convey how mad I am at the queerbaiting and queer erasure in Supernatural, but also in other shows of the CW more generally.

Dear The CW,

Et tu, Brute?

Wow.

What a truly awful thing you’ve done.

I just want to talk. I promise. This will be your first, and only, warning. I will not repeat myself. So, listen closely.

Should I ever have the displeasure of meeting any of you in real life, know this: it’s on sight. I will not be held accountable for my actions, should this occur. You have brought this upon yourselves. You could have made history, but you chose to remain tiny-minded, money-grubbing, homophobic bigots. That’s on you. Now, you have to deal with the consequences. I suggest you watch your kneecaps.

You see, we are sick and tired of your shit. You have crossed us one too many times, and this time, we refuse to back down. Enough is enough. You have had ample time to decide which side of history you want to stand on. You have made your decision. And we have made ours.

For 12 years, you have ridiculed us. You have told us that we’re delusional, that we’re reading too much into the subtext that you put there so blatantly, there is barely any ‘sub’ left. You have silenced us, forbidden us to speak our truth, and refused to listen. Well, we will no longer remain silent.

You owe us. For 12 fucking years, we have kept you alive. You wouldn’t be here if it wasn’t for our love and passion. Even though we’ve only earned your scorn, we have continued to carry this show on our backs and refused to let go. You know this, because you have taken advantage of it. Again and again, you’ve thrown us scraps: enough so as not to starve, not enough to live a healthy life. You have exploited us, turned our love into monetary gain, and you continue to do so. Yet, you have recognised our power and our influence. I admit, we were gullible enough to believe, to hope, that you had changed, when you gave us the confession. An ‘I love you’ that was 12 years in the making. You actually made it canon. We rejoiced; we are not crazy. We’ve been right all this time. There is no way you could back down from this, take this back, right?

Oh, but we underestimated your capacity for bullshit. You give us an undeniable homosexual declaration of love, just to immediately kill the character who spoke it. Bury your gays, indeed. He then does not get to appear on screen again, despite this show teaching us that nothing ever really stays dead, not for them; despite explicitly telling us, in the show, mentioning him by name, that he is alive again, that he is back; despite the fact that this character, this man, this actor, is the sole reason for why you’re still kicking and breathing, 15 years after you started. And what’s his thanks? Desolation. Death. Disposal. Thrown away like a toy you no longer wanted to play with. After all, you’d gotten what you wanted: to keep going. Exploit the actor and his fans so we keep coming back, so you can keep fucking us over. And as if all that wasn’t bad enough already, a year later, a year after the show has finished, you have the audacity to tell us that, actually, his confession is ‘up for interpretation’. Nevermind the fact that it was written by a queer man, acted and directed in a decisively queer manner, and everyone directly involved in that particular scene agrees that it is, indeed, queer. Not ‘open for interpretation’. If I have to hear one more time, that ‘this is a piece of fiction, and you can interpret it however you want, unless, of course, you interpret it as queer, in which case, your interpretation is wrong because this isn’t a show about nonbinary and also you’re disgusting and making everyone uncomfortable’, so help me God, I will end you. I don’t care who you are; I will find you, and I will fistfight you into next week.

This story isn’t yours anymore, and it hasn’t been for a long time. It’s ours. You do not get to touch it anymore until you have learned to respect it. But you won’t. You just don’t get it, do you? This isn’t just about a ship; this isn’t just about fictional characters. This is about our lives, our identities, our existence. You have done enough damage. You know, I really don’t understand how you can be so dense; it’s not that difficult to understand. Queer people - we - are not some sex-crazed, paedophilic, incestuous weirdoes. No matter how much you try to make us out to be. We deserve the same representation as cis-gender, heterosexual people. We deserve to be shown in all of our beautiful colours. We deserve to be seen as individuals full of happiness, and joy, and love, and life. We deserve to get our happy ever after. Until you learn that, keep your grubby fingers away from these characters. We will show them the love and tenderness they deserve; we will give them the happy ending they have fought for, for so long. They deserve it, because we do, too.

You could have had it all. You could have made history. And, since money is the only language you seem to speak, I’ll come down to your level. Do you have any idea about the success you could have had, had you stopped the queerbaiting and just given us canon queer representation? You’re afraid to turn away the homophobes, to lose their money, but have you imagined the amount of fans you would have won in return? All the starved queer people looking for scraps coming to feast at your table and join in the celebrations. Together, we could have enjoyed the most epic love story ever written, accidental as it was, not initially meant to happen, and yet so clearly meant to be. Instead, all we got is the greatest disappointment. And for what? To appease some bigots?

*sarcastic slow clap* Bravo, you cowards.

To make matters worse, this is only one example. And I’m not even going into the details. You have done this before, with other shows, with other fandoms, with other ships, and you will do it again. Your legacy will be one of cowardice and erasure. Remember: you reap what you sow. This is your warning. Be ready. We are coming for you, and we are going to burn you to the ground.

Sincerely,

Queer Fans

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onebizarrekai · 4 years ago

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I went on an unfiltered positive soapbox rant in a doc about green oak last night at 1am

please note that I usually post with moderation on my language but this rant does not have this

I have to give you the original. I have to

yo it’s almost 1 in the fucking morning and I played pokemon for 4 fucking hours today and I’m gonna ramble about GARY FUCKING OAK

LISTEN CAREFULLY. ok listen

to start off my ted talk with something partially irrelevant, I cannot get over the fact that green and gary are almost 2 very distinct personalities. they have similarities, but in my head, green has a genuine capacity to be personally malicious, while gary exists for the sole purpose of being as much of a chad as possible

scale of oak: <————————————————> emo bitch smartass tax fraud (manga) (game) (show)

(I haven’t read the manga in like 10 years and I’m having these vague recollections and I’m like whoa god. I forgot that red and green didn’t know each other in the manga they were literally strangers it’s so weird also they were ALL SO YOUNG)

so basically, gary is a hilarious fucking character whom cade (my brother) and I have distorted beyond belief by making him a rich snob and making endless tax history jokes, and green oak, green fucking oak, is a much more elaborate human being.

real character development as a real life person is growing up and realizing that green is your favorite pokemon character, and not just because he’s comically an asshole and easily mockable, it’s also because he goes through so much fucking implicit character development and it’s VERY IMPORTANT AND COOL.

call it extra and biased but fuck off. no character in pokemon has ever gotten more character development than green oak, and not seeing any of it happen on screen is actually really interesting.

pokemon isn’t generally about character development beyond the dialogue you see on the screen. I mean, apparently it’s little enough about the story that sword and shield completely bailed on the idea of actually having a fucking story, even though sun and moon had a pretty decent one. ANYWAY, green oak is such a fucking cool character because there’s so much room for speculation, and I’m gonna go on a list of reasons why everything about this is neat.

1. he is the only character whom you actually see change in a pokemon game off camera and between long timespans, to my recollection. the only thing to compare this to is the transition between the two fifth gen stories, and while my memory is foggy since I only played black 2 once, I don’t remember any of the characters in that game changing much at all. maybe cheren became less of a dick, whatever. no one cares because he has absolutely no subtext.

2. red is the only protagonist in pokemon history who has made a second appearance. red is a real fucking person, a real pokemon character, and isn’t just a convenient fill-in for the player who gets thrown away after the game is over (LOOKING AT YOU, BLACK 2 AND WHITE 2). green’s relationship to red, no matter how damaged, is a real thing, and a real story element. this is never done in any other pokemon game. green is the only rival whose story continues after the game is over because his counterpart continues to exist.

3. the context of the game. after green barreled through the entirety of kanto, talking red down all the while, and then becoming champion, he gets beaten by red once and for all and his dream of being champion is torn right out of his hands moments after being obtained. everything green cared about is taken away from him by the person he was always mean to. karma, bitch.

so green becomes the 8th gym leader. it doesn’t take two moments of thinking about this to understand how much he doesn’t want this. it’s like, settling for 6th best after your dream job falls through, since nobody knows how the structure of the elite four works.

to top it all off, red RUNS THE FUCK AWAY TO A GODFORSAKEN MOUNTAIN. he takes everything away from green, shatters his world, and then won’t even take the dream that green wanted. can you imagine how mad he’d be about that? green is already having an existential crisis about his behavior problems, he doesn’t need this fucking bullshit. somehow lance becomes the new champion meanwhile even though he’s an elite four member. you’d think green would at least take his place, or something. the amount that I’m confused about this is probably also applies to green. there’s a chance that green rejected the position of champion due to being defeated by red right away, and all the shame he got, but even so, it undoubtably would have taken a toll on him.

finally, here’s the kicker. in spite of all this, green doesn’t make it his business to end the world or some shit. in spite of this, he becomes a better person. green fucking oak has a fucking soul. also, it’s been a VERY long time since I’ve played all of soulsilver, but does green ever complain about red being isolated on mt silver? maybe that’s wishful thinking.

final bout: after years and years, green and red arrive in alola together as grownass men. red came down from the fucking mountain, and green is the one he came to the islands with. this implication of reconcile is so FUCKING IMPORTANT because of what these two have been through for like, the last 20 years.

you cannot POSSIBLY look at this like it’s not a big deal. like, they didn’t just “grow up and get over it.” red had to kick green aside to become the champion (which is still such a fucking good conclusion for the game, like, thinking back on it having a rival who’s a dick to you for the whole game and then destroying his life is grimly poetic), RAN AWAY TO A MOUNTAIN and gave up the title, indicating to green that it didn’t even matter to him (whether he meant that or not, whatever, running away to a mountain is fucking stupid), and in spite of all this, they ended up reconciling. they reconciled. green could have been mad at red for the rest of his life for destroying his dream, regardless of how he treated red when they were younger. maybe green figured that he still had a shot at becoming champion again, but maybe that’s the point. he continues to want to be stronger than red but doesn’t let it carry into how he treats people anymore.

I’m curious, though. what really happened? did red and green put it all behind them? did they deem there someone to blame? did red just become the champion to get back at green after all, and then ran away because he didn’t know how to live with it? or did he run away because it truly didn’t matter to him? or did red become the champion purely out of his own self goals and wasn’t even thinking about green? if so, why did he run away? so many things to think about.

anyway, tldr, green has been through more character development than any other pokemon character and I adore him

also. where the fuck is gold. he defeated red and then ceased to exist

update: in heartgold and soulsilver, green doesn’t seem to know where red is, but in some of his dialogue over call, he tells you that you “remind him of someone” and he mumbles dejectedly about red before hanging up

#fuck count: 28 #I've read too many fics about green going up to mt silver and trying to get red to come back down #random stuff #pokemon #green oak #tfw green oak is your favorite pokemon character #and you realize it's not just because he's comically mean #I've played firered so many times #my brother in law is playing it and like #I realized I know so much about this game #so now I'm playing it again #namelessshipping #because I'm biased

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catgluue · 5 years ago

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Chapter One: Coincidence

Happy Royai Week! In the spirit of pushing myself to do ridiculous things for no reason, I’m using the prompts as chapters in a longer fic! No promises that I’ll actually complete it this week, but I’m certainly going to try.

Read on A03

Chapter One: Coincidence

Riza Hawkeye hadn’t expected to see the spring of 1916, and yet here it is.

It’s not quite spring - not yet - but it’s headed swiftly in that direction. The days are getting longer, she’s seeing green return to the trees, and she recalls that this time last year she was glorified secretary to a homunculus, awaiting The Promised Day.

It’s strange how life now is both normal and irrevocably transformed. The team, excepting Falman who chose to remain in the north, is back together but with new ranks and a new office. In his new capacity as Brigadier General, Mustang has merited a private office, which in Riza’s mind only impedes her ability to make sure he stays on task. If anything he’s more distracted when removed from all possible stimuli, and she sometimes invents reasons to check up on him just to make sure he’s not sleeping at his desk. It’s happening less and less, though, and she knows this means he’s able to sleep more at night.

She is too, although her sleep is still punctuated by nightmares. Recently it’s been nightmares of Ishval, which is a refreshing change of pace from the nightmares of the gold-toothed doctor and the General’s stricken face deep under the streets of Central. This is undoubtedly because they’re heading to Ishval as soon as summer is over, finally, to begin the long and futile process of redemption. She both dreads and longs for the penance of rebuilding something they’d once destroyed, knowing that absolution is impossible but hoping to find it anyway, somewhere in the desert.

She’s early to work again today, in part because of another nightmare, and goes to the mail room as a matter of course. There’s letters for the General as always - he actually gets fan mail now, which is a concept she finds so wholly repulsive it’s all she can do not to throw the letters directly into the trash. Mustang, for his part, doesn’t seem to mind, even reading parts of the amorous letters aloud, usually while throwing furtive glances in her direction. She always does her best not to react, unsure why he is under the impression that she cares. She doesn’t.

Maybe a little, only because they distract him from work.

Her heels click against the tile in the mostly empty hallway as she heads to the office, leafing through the mail, and she almost stops when she sees something addressed to her. She has no family to speak of, and her friends are all here in Central. Winry sends her regular letters but this one has a distinct lack of crayon drawings on the envelope. Who does that leave to be sending her mail?

She’s still poring over it when everyone else starts to come in. First is Fuery, a minute or two early, still yawning as he puts his bag down and gives her a casual good morning salute.

“Captain Hawkeye,” he says. “What’s that?” she folds the letter more times than is necessary and places it in a drawer.

“Nothing much. How is your report on the potential for crops in Ishvalan soil?” she asks; a far less prying question. He launches into an explanation as the letter in the drawer of her desk throbs in her mind like a heartbeat.

Captain Riza Hawkeye,

Apologies for interrupting your busy schedule, but I must relay that this past week suspicious activity has been reported on your estate. On one occasion figures were seen near the house but frightened off by the constable. I have of course ordered that a closer watch be kept on the house but it is my opinion that it may be time to sell the property as it’s been in disuse for so long.

Regards,

Ernst Meyell

Mayor

In all honesty she has half-forgotten that the manor house, probably falling down and overgrown, is her responsibility. She hasn’t given the old house much thought at all in years, apart from a nightmare she sometimes has wherein she wanders the empty halls like a ghost, calling out for her parents. She has to think harder to remember Ernst, finally recalling that he’d written to her a few years ago, saying he had taken over Mayorship of Werthem, the small town northeast of East City that Riza is from. As the others trail in and Fuery’s attention shifts, she pulls out a leave form and hastily fills it out, being purposefully vague. The General will know what was going on by the look on her face alone; this is purely a paper trail.

She waits until he comes in, says his hellos, and disappears into his office before slipping in with a coded knock. He doesn’t even look up, the knock telling him all he needs to know.

“Captain,” he says, by way of greeting, eyes still fixed on his pile of paperwork. “What can I do for you?” she slides the request on top of the pile and directly under his nose, before stepping back, hands clasped behind her back. He studies it for a moment before responding teasingly, “You’re getting sick of me already?”

“I need a week to clear out my father’s house before I sell it,” she says, and the tense silence that follows is palpable.

“Is that so? Are you going alone or is Catalina going to help?” he asks, knowing full well Rebecca is far too busy as the Furher’s assistant.

“Just me,” she tells him. “It shouldn’t take long; my father didn’t keep much around the house.” He looks like he considers this for a moment - looks like being the operative phrase here - and leans back in his chair, thoughtfully tapping his pen against the top of the desk, and her ears prick up. Tapping is their way of cluing the other person in that there’s going to be code or subtext in the talk to follow. This is an old practice, from when they still needed a signal, but one they’ve carried on for years.

“You know I’ve been thinking about taking some time off too,” he says casually and she resists the urge to roll her eyes.

“I think you should hold off until I get back,” she tells him pointedly, and he meets her even gaze with his own. He’s steepled his fingers and is peering over them as though they were in a chess match and he’d just made a bold move. “Someone has to run the office.”

“And what makes you think I’ll get anything done with you gone?” He asks, a smile ghosting his lips. They often joke about his lack of work ethic, how ‘useless’ he is without her (and he isn’t useless, only unmotivated) but something about his tone now gives her pause. He sounds almost flirtatious but underneath something in his eyes causes her stomach to knot and she realizes they’ve been practically glued to each others sides for a year.

“You’ll live,” she says sternly. “I’m sure you’ll cope how you always cope and waste time talking to some woman or other. Anyway, will you approve it?” A smile slowly spreads over his face at her implicit approval of a few coded phone calls, and the sickly-sweet feeling in her stomach intensifies.

“All right,” he says at last. “I guess we’ll have to manage somehow.”

-x-

The house is just as she remembers it, and a lump forms in her throat as she walks up to the front door, getting the key out of her pocket and fitting it into the lock with hands that nevertheless remain steady.

It’s like walking into a tomb - everything frozen in time, sheets still over the furniture from when she had placed them there almost ten years ago. She’d been a child then, she thinks, moving through the house and pulling the sheets off furniture, opening curtains to let the light in. Everything of her was pretty much gone from this place - she had taken what few possessions she wanted and simply left the rest. Her father wasn’t a material man but even after his death she’d stayed away from the study. Even now she isn’t looking forward to clearing it out.

So she doesn’’t, not yet anyway, choosing instead to start on the ground floor. She had decided on the train ride here to sell the place furnished, and so it’s only a matter of taking small things, sorting them into boxes to either donate or throw away entirely. Photos, books, knick-knacks. She does not have a box for things to keep.

She gets the first phone call about half an hour after arriving, and as she heads to the phone, still sitting on the table off the hallway, she thinks wryly that someone must have checked the train times. It certainly wasn’t information she’d included in her leave request.

“Hello?” she answers neutrally to be safe, unsure if this is an official phone call or if it’s General Mustang trying to reach his old flame Elizabeth.

“Elizabeth, it’s been a long time,” a flirtatious baritone dances down the line and her annoyance melts away.

“Yes, Roy, it has,” she replies in kind, slipping easily into the familiar character. There’s only a slim chance now that his calls are being listened to - slim, but possible - so she plays along. She, Riza, has never referred to the General by his first name in her adult life, but Elizabeth is another story. It’s almost thrilling, and while she isn’t sure she imagines that he enjoys it as well. “To what do I owe the pleasure of hearing from you?”

“The workload is light this week; my Captain is out of town,” he explains. The Captain in question leans against the wall, holding the old fashioned earpiece up with a smile playing across her mouth. “I hope I’m not bothering you.”

“Not at all,” she replies, tone light and breezy. “I’ve just been doing some packing.”

“Packing?” he replies. “Not moving, I hope?”

“Not me, my cousin,” she tells him smoothly. “I just got back from her place. I was about to take a shower, actually.” Elizabeth is shameless. “Moving is hard work, it turns out.”

“I bet,” he says and she can hear him grinning. “Well if you never need any brute strength I’m available this weekend,” he offers and she knows it isn’t directed towards Elizabeth. “You can save all the unpleasant work for me, I’d be happy to come help.” She’s quiet for a moment, thinking of the study that needs to be cleaned out eventually. “Elizabeth?” his voice comes through, softer this time. “I mean it. Say the word and I’ll help any way I can.” She takes a shaky breath.

“Thank you, Roy,” she says, and means it. “But I- we’ll be fine. There’s not too much left to do. It was nice hearing from you,” she adds. “Feel free to call me more often.”

“I will,” he says. They say their goodbyes, her managing to squeeze in another use of his first name, and she returns to the work at hand, feeling somewhat comforted by the coded phone call.

The second call comes around dusk, surprising her as she’s leafing through a photo album that had to have been her mother’s. Pictures of Riza as a small child line the album, and stop abruptly when she’s about eight. Her father had clearly had no interest in finishing the book. She makes her way to the phone, wondering for only a second who it could be.

But of course, she knows.

“Checking up on me again?” she purrs into the mouthpiece of the old-fashioned phone, already in character.

“Multitasking,” he says briskly. He wasn’t calling Elizabeth, then, and she feels a flush of embarrassment for jumping the gun. “Captain, we’ve gotten orders to check up on Munin, and then we’re moving on to Werthem on the Fuhrer’s orders. I guess there was a break in at the house of a retired state alchemist and for some reason Grumman thinks Werthem could be a target.” She can hear the shrug in his voice, but without him in front of her it’s impossible to read what he’s thinking. It’s no accident that Grumman is sending Mustang’s crew to her tiny hometown; he would of course know precisely which alchemist lived in Werthem and would have reason not to want that alchemist’s work stolen. “We should be there in the morning.”

“Do you mean you’ll be in town or that you’ll be here as in my house?”

“I’ve got to go, Captain, have a good night!”

“Wait, General-”

There is a click as he hangs up and Riza slams the receiver down, irritated. She wants to believe he’s smart enough not to bring their entire team to her father’s house. She wants to, but she isn’t sure he has that kind of restraint. She spends most of the night cleaning up the ground floor, looking for any traces of him in the tarnished frames and worn leather albums. It’s not until she’s dug deeper, clearing out a disused drawer in the kitchen that she finds a solitary piece of paper with alchemical equations scrawled lazily in familiar handwriting. She means to throw it away, but instead fondly folds it up and tucks it into her pocket.

-x-

Chapter Two: Mortal/Immortal

#roy mustang #riza hawkeye #royaiweek19 #fullmetal alchemist #why do I do these things to myself #aint nobody have time for editing its royai week nerds #yeehaaaawww

34 notes · View notes

scarlettlawyer · 6 years ago

Text

Part 3 of my commentary of @renegadewangs‘s fic series Phantoms & Mirages!

Part 1 | Part 2

Chasing Phantoms, Chapter 17

How was this man supposed to impersonate a man who was impersonating him in turn, if he didn’t even have a firm grasp of his own personality and mannerisms?

THIS IS SO DELIGHTFULLY CONVOLUTED I’M LOVING IT. Absolutely living for this.

The dialogue between Randy and Domestique in the flashback is so well-constructed, the layers of SUBTEXT – this fic. Is good.

“That’s not the point,” [Randy] ended up muttering. If anything, not knowing himself only strengthened the point. “For all you know, I could be a dangerous criminal.”

Hot damn, this line.

He supposed he could tolerate Domestique’s presence for a bit longer.

And then they got hitched. Sdkjnsdknldslkn

Running late? What were they running late for? Were Domestique and the Phantom supposed to be on some sort of schedule? Bobby knew he couldn’t question it without rousing suspicion, but that made the curiosity so much more needling.

I got so curious over this too. XD.

ASKNJASDNKLADJL GOD IT IS SUCH A SHAME THAT HE’S NOT ACTUALLY TALKING TO THE REAL PHANTOM HERE. TELL HIM OFF. It’s What He Deserves. Okay but this line is still so funny. Poor Domestique.

“Watch your mouth, LaSoote. There could be children listening in.” Nailed it.

HAHAHAAA I’D FORGOTTEN ABOUT THIS.

Domestique’s face twitched into some sort of disgusted expression. Or perhaps it was frustration; Bobby found it hard to tell.

Ah. Ahh. It never really occurred to me before how awkward and awful this situation is for Domestique. Ouch. Because for all he knows that’s the phantom… Who is impersonating his “dead” ex-husband… Who he is in the process of GRIEVING. Like I’d naturally felt bad for Domestique when it became clear he was in mourning but… Never fully hit me how awkward the phantom aspect is. Or, in fact, would have been in any previous instance where the phantom is Bobby and speaking to Domestique, because that was his husband’s former identity, and then his ex-husband. Yeesh. YOU MADE AND ADDED YET ANOTHER CHARACTER TO YOUR STORY FOR THE PHANTOM TO ROYALLY SCREW OVER. As if he hadn’t done that to enough people already. XD

Although there would of course have been quite the distinction between Randy and the Bobby that the phantom was portraying, which would help a little bit for it to be a little less weird… Domestique might have been able to glean things about what Bobby used to be like from interacting with the phantom… Gah, gaah, I’m thinking so much about this now and getting more eager to read Tracking Ghosts to see what information it has to tell me, what light it has to shed. XD

Chasing Phantoms, Chapter 18

Your writing style is just, so brilliant. The way you introduce us gradually to different pieces of the puzzle when it comes to Domestique and Bobby’s relationship, and what it was like for Domestique… Keeping the reader curious and wondering, sometimes guessing at the full picture ahead of time and being greatly wrong about it.

THIS FLASHBACK. IS SO DIFFERENT TO READ THE SECOND TIME AROUND. AAAAH.

I really didn’t like Domestique the first time I read it and now I’m just. OUCH.

It hadn’t been the first time Domestique had lost his patience, but never this bad. Never with this much force.

So here we are, the… Hmm. When I first read this, I took this “it hadn’t been the first time” as a kind of confirmation of the phantom’s words regarding beatings, but… “never this bad. Never with this much force”. The crux of it depends on what “lost his patience” actually refers to here. I’d initially taken that as the euphemism for inflicting violence on Randy. But now, I’m like… what if it’s meant more literally? Is it possible this is actually the first time Domestique struck Randy? Or had he done it before, simply with “less force”? …No, the “force” comment, to me, implies that Randy had actually been hit by Domestique before. Just… less severely.

It’s a single punch Domestique dishes out, and it’s implied here to be the worst that Bobby had suffered at his hand. That’s a clear contrast to the more severe domestic abuse that I had been imagining. Of course, we as the reader had come to know that Domestique and Randy had actually shared something, and that Randy clearly cared greatly for Domestique, but this had not caused me to question my assumptions too much. Because there are still “good times” or “honeymoon phases” in otherwise abusive relationships.

But the phantom is far from trustworthy, and he said those things to Blackquill with the specific intent to bother him and to get him to leave. Blackquill himself draws attention to their untrustworthiness and how they were supposed to bother him. He very, VERY easily could have been exaggerating, both intentionally and unintentionally going by his comment about how his “intel wasn’t what it used to be at that point.”

“Randy! You’ve made your point! I get it! I don’t know what else to say, please just stop!”

The first time around, I read this line as quite dismissive, as if he’s saying “oh yeah sure as if you’re gonna really leave, you made your point GEEZ now come back here as you’re inevitably gonna do anyway”, and got the impression that perhaps Randy has tried/threatened to leave before but didn’t, which is why I thought Domestique was not really taking him seriously. I had picked up on the desperation that seemed to be present, but figured that Randy had never gotten this close to leaving before, which caused Domestique to actually start getting worried and want to put an end to it.

He remembered all the times he’d felt like the walls were closing in- like he was back in that cellar and death was all around him- and Domestique had come to soothe him. To tell him he was safe.

The first time around, reading this line had given me a bit of pause, if only because of this line, that Domestique says earlier:

“Did you have another breakdown or something? Are you pissy because you had another one of your crying fits and I wasn’t there to hold you until it passed?”

Which had made me very, very annoyed to say the LEAST and just naturally gave me the impression of someone who is VERY dismissive and neglectful, but furthermore, put in context with Randy’s perspective and his suffering, seemed just downright cruel. Like, it makes it sound like soothing Randy was nothing but a chore whenever he was “forced” to do it.

So my reaction to finding out that, huh, Domestique actually had held Randy and soothed him and actively cared for him when he broke down in the past was at least one point in Domestique’s favour. I was like:

But he wasn’t safe. Not until the Phantom was stopped.

HMM. I do kinda wonder… how he knew to refer to the phantom with this moniker at this point. This was something I also noticed the first time around, and dismissed as a potential mistake. Unless it’s not meant to be specifically from Randy’s POV and more a general narrative perspective thing… WAIT, actually. I think maybe it was supposed to be, yeah, general-narrative-perspective in the present tense

“I know for a fact that you can’t.” Domestique grinned, but it was nothing like the boyish grins that Bobby remembered. “Or how about you speak a few words of Japanese? Or French? Bobby was lousy at French, but the Phantom? He speaks at least fifty languages fluently. Probably more.”

Me: [spits out my juice]

PHANTOM… PHANTOM WHAT?!

WHEN I FIRST READ THIS… I JUST HAD TO STOP AND BE LIKE… EXCUSE ME?! EXCUSE ME? YOU CANNOT JUST THROW IN SUCH AN ABSURD FIGURE AND EXPECT IT TO FLY!

Me: I KNOW THE PHANTOM IS ABSOLUTELY AMAZING BUT THERE’S A THING CALLED BELIEVABILITY.

I kid you not, my willing suspension of disbelief snapped in half at the time. XDDD THAT’S JUST… SO MANY LANGUAGES… “FLUENTLY”?! PROBABLY MORE?!?!?!?!

Thirty languages probably would have caused the exact same reaction within me. Fifty was just so far above even that, I-

Like, at most I’d probably have capped the amount of languages the phantom could speak fluently at around 25-28 at most. Throw in a couple more that he has somewhat of a grasp on but can’t speak fluently, MAYBE. That I could take in stride. If I had to pick a number myself, I’d be comfortable at around fifteen.

But we’re also talking about the version of me that had (COMPLETELY unfair!) doubts and misgivings about how you’d chosen to write the phantom’s character and position him in the story up until this point. So, let’s give this a fair assessment.

It just so happens that I do remember reading about a real life man who was actually able to speak around fifty languages, so it is possible. But I’m not sure if he could have been called fluent at all of those, and if I recall, it was also what his career was kinda centred around, and he really just had a natural talent for it (as you’d expect).

There’s also the fact that, if parts of the brain are not taken up and busy processing and feeling emotion, it lends those parts of the brain to be able to be commandeered for other purposes. I don’t doubt that someone could really pull off unprecedented language learning ability if the parts of their brain that should be focused on emotion were instead focused on language learning instead. Furthermore, the mere fact that one doesn’t have any real emotions to be distracted by allows one to focus on learning languages skilfully. These two things could certainly feed into each other to allow a very powerful capacity for learning and retaining languages.

The first point may not really apply to this phantom to the full possible extent due to the bone sliver, which is mostly said to have damaged the phantom’s brain in the area where it counts RE: emotions. That means the relevant damaged/blocked parts cannot be commandeered for language learning instead. HOWEVER, I am willing to accept that the bone sliver further prevents the emotional-processing parts of the phantom’s brain from taking up more space that they should be taking up. That extra (unblocked/undamaged) space could certainly be claimed by other skills such as language learning, allowing the phantom to still have a much bigger part of his brain dedicated to language than the average human’s.

Another point to consider is the phantom’s age and how much time he’s had to claim himself such a high amount of languages. Well, he’s 37 at this point, if I remember right, and if I really think it through and consider him picking up different languages over time when playing different roles or in different circumstances… The fifty number kind of checks out, I guess, depending on how you play it. I still don’t know about “fluently”, but you could have a claim to speaking fifty languages or even a bit more than that at that age.

My other concern is the phantom’s career, based on replacing people and portraying them as accurately as possible. If someone speaks a certain language fluently, being also able to speak that language fluently is absolutely essential. Or it’s WAY too easy to have your cover blown – I mean, I know I don’t need to tell you this XD. I figured that yes, the phantom would know a whole bunch of different languages, but would have a very important need to stick to a certain set of languages he was best at for the people he was impersonating. It’s just really, really hard to speak a language as if it was your native one when you only started to learn it when you were like, 25. Even if you’ve known it for ten years, imo.

But it’s also worthwhile to consider that if the phantom impersonates someone who can speak multiple languages, he would need to speak all of the relevant languages. There’s just a whole lot of ways the phantom could pick up languages over time, and a whole lot of reasons he would need to. I suppose in any “free” time he had, he also may continue learning different languages as well, as it’s a great advantage for his career. Always honing his skills. Like, might as well get a certain language out of the way and have it learned in advance if you might need it later, or it will serve you later on, right?

And then you have little child phantom from under the International School of Languages picking things up there. That’s another important consideration – at least SOME of those languages NEED to be learned early, in one’s formative years, for it to be more believable. Well, Phantoms & Mirages comes back and ticks that box! Now, I did appreciate the narrative circling around and addressing that, although even then I was like “hmm… it’s not necessarily enough, I mean, you need to be able to practice to get better.” But now I realise: yeah, even if what child phantom picked up from listening in on classes wasn’t a whole lot, it was still enough. And it’s not like that’s the only way he learned languages, either. He had his whole life ahead of him at that point, and so many opportunities and different circumstances where he would learn a whole manner and range of them.

Something else to consider is I think my definition of “fluent” is simply too stringent. I’d always used it kinda interchangeably with “like a native speaker”, but I’ve been coming to realise that’s a little naive. I didn’t even know until quite recently (within the past two years or so) that there was some lack of clarity regarding the term and different people had different opinions. But this definition: “able to express oneself easily and articulately.” Can easily occur at levels well below sounding just like a native speaker. So once we take that into account as well, the “fifty or more languages” once again becomes more believable.

So when, finally, I come back, having put it all into context and giving it a more fair assessment, I can… get on board! XD More in the “gee Meowzy, I really don’t know for certain… but you seem to know what you’re doing, so I’ll take your word for it!” XD.

Besides, I can also see the phantom impersonating someone who speaks a given language slightly better than he does. It’s somewhat of a risk, but hell, taking on a new persona always is. There’s plenty of minor non-language stuff that could trip him up, so a slight language disparity isn’t that unique of a risk. And upon taking on the persona, the phantom would constantly be able to bring his speaking abilities for it ever closer to the stolen identity’s and would probably rapidly be able to make up most of the gap and close it, until whatever’s left is not what anyone would really notice. Guess the main thing that bugged me is the notion that he’d be able to impersonate anyone who could speak any of those languages as their native tongue, although that’s not necessarily the case. Well it doesn’t matter – I know that you know what you’re doing! XD

Now it’s honestly a shame that I refused to accept this figure the first time around because honest to goodness I probably would have been cheering if I did, like, that’s my fave character! Right there! 50 languages and counting! Isn’t he amazing?! xD #PHANTOMFANPRIDE

Past Me: author you CANNOT just pull ANY high-sounding and impressive-sounding number and slap it in that’s not how it works… is it?

Back then I really DID NOT know WHAT to make of the phantom in this fic. Such a seemingly unattainable number felt at the time to strip them further of their character and made them feel WAY less grounded in the otherwise very grounded story I was reading.

(Past Me, we keep butting heads an awful lot, and as a recurring theme hopefully it won’t go on for too much longer ;D)

But then I also thought, okay, okay. Maybe Domestique’s estimate is actually inaccurate and/or way exaggerated. Maybe he’s genuinely under this misconception and/or intentionally exaggerating to further have Bobby lose his cool. Kinda begs the question, how would Domestique be able to know this rough figure anyway. The narrative seemed to be implying his estimate was accurate, though, but I was prepared to accept Domestique possibly being mistaken and then move on. (I was ready to slam the “death of the author” button for interpretation of this one sentence back then, if you will).

…Whew, guess who just went on a roughly 1,500 word tangent over a single sentence, derailing and going into depth on a topic completely separate from the chapter’s focus? This person! Well that’s just how I roll.

Chasing Phantoms, Chapter 19

The dynamic between Bobby and Domestique in this chapter is so awesome to read… Domestique kissing Bobby while he still has the gun, losing control… I was really like, this is one heckin’ fic! Even though I still strongly disliked Domestique for his treatment of Bobby – Randy – just because I could hardly stand the character didn’t detract in the slightest from how cool this was to read and how invested I suddenly was in this wack dynamic between them as this scene went down.

He couldn’t quite keep the satisfied smirk from his face as he peered down at his former husband, now a pathetic, whining heap on the floor. “You’re under arrest, baby. In justice we trust.” The words left him before he could fully process what he’d just said. It didn’t matter. For the first time in over a year, it felt right.

“…You know what I just realized?” “What?” “It’s Valentine’s Day.”

YEAH I’D NOTICED THE LISTED DATE OF RECENT CHAPTERS (albeit like, I was a little slow on the uptake but I’d noticed it well before this scene) and I was like “Huh! Is anyone going to comment on this at all?” Well, why did I even have to wonder??? XD

You write such wholesome, happy and pure Blackbright… bless you. I’m not even at all invested in the ship normally and I’m like “awwwww!”

Chasing Phantoms, Chapter 20

If that wasn’t already substantial improvement, Bobby had followed through on his resolve and sought out a therapist, but what with waiting lists and initial testing, it’d be a while before he could begin to receive true counseling.

If the cast of this fic series wasn’t already substantial and intertwined enough, Bobby had followed through on his resolve and sought out a therapist who would later become a major character, but what with the complicated plot threads still lying ahead, it’d be a while before said character could begin to receive true focus and finally make an appearance in the actual story itself beyond mere references.

“With. I was working with the Phantom. Me and him go back a couple years, but if I was working for him, I wouldn’t have busted his ass out of prison. More trouble than it was worth.” A moment of silence as those words sank in. Of course the Phantom hadn’t employed Domestique and his cohort to free him- how could he? He’d been in solitary confinement.

THIIIIS, this! The fact that the characters straight-up assumed – and therefore the narrative implied – that it was a clear-cut case of the phantom being in charge and ordering around underlings who were working for him, had struck me as rather odd. It was a further reason why I couldn’t fully get on board with the phantom in this fic so far when I first read it, because it further drove home the disconnect I’d been feeling. The notion just seemed… off. After all, Dual Destinies does nothing to imply it, and I’d never really seen any phantom fans headcanon it. But there was nothing from canon that outright discounts the possibility, so I’d just kind of accepted what the narrative had been proposing as, an interesting take that merely did not readily fit into my image of the phantom. But then this correction happens and I’m like, oh, okay, huh...! A nudge in the direction of alignment, if you will.

Oh whoa, HAT-1 bomb was Domestique’s? I didn’t realise (remember) he and the phantom went that far back… INTRIGUING!

So now, we finally have the reveal of Domestique staying back late, working on the bomb for Randy’s sake, and that he really, truly did love Bobby, that they could have been happy etc.

That is angsty and had some impact on me accordingly, although my thoughts were still “okay, but you were still abusive towards Randy. This certainly puts your actions in context and causes them to make more sense, but you still did that, so I can’t exactly bring myself to feel too sad about the fact that things didn’t work out between the two of you. I’m still glad that Randy managed to escape that awful situation, even though the whole thing is SUPER sucky from Domestique’s POV.”

The notion that they could have been happy – and indeed, once Domestique was no longer under the pressure of making the bomb, they could be – also came up a little short for me because I’m like: the way things worked out was actually for the best in this case. Domestique was not necessarily a good influence on Randy either, and Randy as an identity is one I still very much feel it was necessary for Bobby to shed on his path to healing. The relationship that Bobby shares with Blackquill is much healthier and happier. It’s what Bobby moreso needs. And because this is a Blackbright fic – Blackbright being the endgame, it’s like, sure, Domestique and Randy could have worked things out, but then we wouldn’t have Blackbright, would we? ;D

But I’m realising I was still just being a LITTLE too harsh on Domestique – I was so focused on continuing to paint him in my mind as a more clear-cut abuser to stop and realise that yes, Domestique inflicted a small(?) amount of violence on Randy and that’s not really excusable despite Domestique’s reasons, but outside of those instances he was never actually “abusing” Randy, was not ever trying to be intentionally cruel or dismissive etc. He loved Randy. He DID care about Randy. He wanted the two of them to share a happy marriage with each other. And they did have a whole heap of wonderful times together! Bobby’s positive behaviour towards Domestique was present in the narrative for a reason, and it was hardly anything akin to the holdovers of abuse as I might have believed before.

Oh and also, at this point I was kinda… slightly confused about how some of Domestique’s actions added up. This is actually one of the things I sent to my friend at the time on the matter:

Now keep in mind – I knew that if Domestique wasn’t willing to obey, the phantom would have killed him, and Domestique was fully aware of this – that’s why he fell into line. What confused me at the time is that Domestique spent time with Bobby before the phantom had infiltrated the apartment, so why didn’t he make any attempt at warning Bobby or trying to save him? There’s a chance that they would have been able to run off together and lie low, because Domestique was planning to retire anyway, and I thought that maybe, Domestique would be willing to put his life on the line if it meant it would save Bobby’s – if there was even a chance they could both successfully evade the phantom. That, coupled with me misinterpreting that line about carrying Bobby’s body being suspicious that Domestique said to the phantom, caused me to think that perhaps Domestique did have some kind of odd additional allegiance to the phantom for him to follow the orders how he did.

But looking back now, I realise there were flaws in my thinking. The phantom would’ve probably had the apartment under surveillance, so how could they escape without being noticed? Perhaps Domestique hadn’t actually known Bobby might get killed before it was too late, because what reason would the phantom have to tell him everything ahead of time? Another huge thing is that Domestique and Bobby were getting along really well, fuelling my “running off together” idea. But the thing is, Randy had still divorced Domestique. Domestique still would have been sore over that, and there was no real guarantee of any proper reconciliation between them. And at the end of the day, going against the phantom is just way too risky and kind of tempting death to come to one’s way. I guess I misjudged and Domestique’s need for self-preservation (and also commonsense in light of these facts) was more powerful than the love he felt for Bobby. And the fact that, well, escape would just be so difficult and implausible.

Oh, and Blackquill too. He would have made it all the more difficult. Domestique probably would have just wanted to escape with Bobby but Bobby would want to warn Blackquill too and it would just turn into an even bigger mess. And how’d they be able to leave without Blackquill noticing, anyway?

So yeah, I think I actually have answered my own questions on this one! The phantom would have thought through all of the possibilities and made sure to have Domestique fully trapped.

Chasing Phantoms, Chapter 21

Caught in the netherworld between life and death, sanity and insanity, the Phantom was once again a figure outside of anyone’s reach.

I love this sentence so much.

Also, FIRST PHANTOM POV SEGMENT CHAPTER. A-HO!

Just picture, me back then, scooting closer to the hypothetical TV Screen, going, OK, I’m listening, I’m listening…

Me to some hypothetical other person present: Haha yeah so hands down this is an awesome fic, brilliantly written, fantastic characterisation, you know? Just kind of a shame that it happens to be my fave which the author seems to be the weakest at writing for, but – WAIT SHUT UP HE’S ONSCREEN.

he found that he didn’t like that scent.

An opinion. 👀 “It was not a pleasant scent” sounds more neutral, but. Opinion! :D

Lang rubbed at his forehead for a moment before speaking. “We lost the Phantom this morning.”

There is more than one way to read this sentence. The intended reading is kinda obvious, but it didn’t stop my brain from momentarily going “uh, he died??” XD I mean, the guy IS supposed to be in a coma after a suicidal leap from an apartment building, so y’know!

“This is absurd! How do you lose a coma patient? Did someone move him?” “He got up and walked out, actually.”

WHAT AN ABSOLUTE LEGEND!!!!!!!!!! OMG. AND THIS EXCHANGE IS SO FUNNY.

SIMON SPUTTERING SOMEWHAT AS WELL JUST MAKES IT BECAUSE YEAH, YOU WOULD JUST FALTER UPON HEARING THIS.

Then, in the next segment of the chapter, when it flipped back to the phantom’s perspective and it became clear we were actually going to get the escape from his POV, I was kinda like “wait, what?”. I mean, I definitely wasn’t complaining, but I was a little bit puzzled by that narrative choice. After all – Lang had essentially already outlined the most likely means the phantom used to escape, which would have answered any questions the reader may have had regarding the matter. So to get to read of the breakout from the phantom’s POV as he goes through essentially those same steps is, from a purely information-gleaning perspective, somewhat redundant. What could possibly be achieved by doing this? I had actually expected the finer details to be left up to the reader’s imagination – which itself is a nice little shortcut writing-wise, too.

But it’s so cool. It’s so cool. Right? Could it possibly be? Is it possible that the author is providing more phantom for the sake of phantom? Could they be acknowledging how interesting, how fascinating of a character they are? :D

Lipstick that he had to apply with extreme care, because his fingers wouldn’t stop shaking no matter how hard he tried to keep them still.

I’m such a sucker for phantom-in-a-weakened-state, and this detail reminds me of when their fingers also wouldn’t stop shaking in a scene in Just Fake It, but they had to just persist with what they were doing. :D

He contemplated high-heeled shoes for a moment, only to discard the notion. He was having enough trouble walking as it was.

I’M SCREAMING.

No, not him. Her. Until he was out of there, he was a she and she was a simple nurse who needed to leave the clinic in order to get something from her car.

This was one bit where I was like [quiet sigh] “and that’s why they/them phantom is so great, y’know? Very seamless, where you don’t need to bother switching between he and she pronouns for situations like this – instead you get to have one set of pronouns that remain consistent regardless of disguise when the narrative makes reference to them. And you can switch from they/them to more gendered pronouns accordingly if need be, too!” (But I’ll return to this at a later post.) But! Gosh, I was over the moon, I was like, wow! Wow! Maybe, just maybe, this author knows their stuff and can write a brilliant phantom! You had my attention.

Chasing Phantoms, Epilogue

Phoenix and Apollo had apparently caused a bit of a collision in their hurry.

Amazing! XD The Wright Anything Agency dorks… gotta love ‘em.

The world was far too grand for two people to have a chance encounter unless someone would will for them to meet.

WAIT IS THIS MEANT TO BE SOME KIND OF LEANING-ON-THE-FOURTH-WALL? ASDJKDKJ. YOU WILL FOR THEM TO MEET, MEOWZY. YOU DO.

Or wait. Someone wills for them to meet in-narrative too! To place Bobby in the same cell! Ahhh!

Oh, what a good ending that keeps the reader eager to read on…!

OH YEAH AND IF THE PHANTOM ESCAPES ON THE SAME DAY LANG TELLS BLACKQUILL THEN HE BROKE OUT ON MY BIRTHDAY. march 16

#tumblr sincerely didn't seem to want me to post this #so I added even more chapter commentaries in making it even longer #hah.#long post #so many thoughts D:#Phantoms and Mirages

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ncfan-1 · 6 years ago

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ncfan listens to The Magnus Archives: S1 EP011 (’Dreamer) & EP012 (‘First Aid’)

In which I have a lot of questions, and I feel like I’m not the only one.

No spoilers, please!

EP 011: ‘Dreamer’

- The imagery of this organism like a strangling vine choking the city is nice and visceral and creepy.

- So we’ve established that there’s a limit to what sort of cases the Institute will take on. It’s nice to establish this. I do wonder about stuff like that in series like this, because if the Institute treated seriously every fever dream they were told about, they’d never get any work done.

- “I know how that sounds.” Yeah, if someone said that to me, the first thing I’d assume is, uh, very different from what you’re telling us, Antonio Blake.

- Wait, Antonio’s ex is named Graham? I… I compared the statement dates of this one and ‘Across the Street’, and I think this is in the right timeframe to be right around the time Graham from that episode was replaced by not-Graham. Obviously, if this is referring to a different Graham (and yeah, I know I said not to rely on coincidences, but I think the same given name isn’t as much of a link as the same surname would be, unless the surname was, like Smith or Jones or Patel) I’m following the wrong thread, but if it is the same Graham, then wow, there’s some nasty subtext to that breakup.

Of course, I’m not sure this is the same Graham we’re talking about. Graham Folger had such a pervasive air of isolation around him that it stretches my suspension of disbelief a little to believe he had a boyfriend. But I suppose it would explain why he was often out of his flat, and it’s not like having a boyfriend would have helped him much when he was at home. Alone.

- I winced when Antonio detailed how he didn’t wake up from the dream when he fell from the roof of Canary Wharf, and didn’t wake up when he experienced the phantom pain of the landing. I’m terrified of heights, and the mere act of dream-falling would have been enough to wake me—and indeed, I think it would have been for most people, if they’re having normal dreams. But this isn’t a normal dream.

- I wonder if Antonio’s fear of taking the elevator up to the twenty-third floor is supposed to be indicative of a premonition involving an elevator malfunction.

- So the death of the head archivist at the Magnus Institute triggers some catastrophic change in supernatural activity in London? Or was there some drastic change, and the Institute—and Gertrude—was at the epicenter of it?

- “And the bridge was knotted high with the flashing vines.” I checked, and a cursory search with a few different search phrases didn’t show me any statistics that indicate that a statistically large amount of people jump from London Bridge in suicide attempts each year. If this was taking place in San Francisco and we were talking about the Golden Gate Bridge, I’d have no doubt that that’s what the vines are about there, but here, I’m not as certain. It might be a combination of suicides and car crashes, or, if the vines have been accumulating for centuries, it could just be the accumulated deaths of centuries upon the structure.

- The Magnus Institute, as described… is not entirely dissimilar from my own workplace in appearance. My workplace being a combination of administrative offices and archive for a local heritage center. Where I work as an assistant archivist. …You might see why this disturbs me a bit.

- And now Jonathan suddenly has so many questions. As he should. I can understand his gut response being to assume that it was a prank, and can equally understand his being freaked out upon discovering that no, this was probably not a prank.

- So Jonathan doesn’t know exactly what happened to Gertrude, and didn’t even know she was dead when he got the job? His comment about asking if she was available to give him some job training, I think, confirms something I was wondering about—whether or not he had a great deal of experience as an archivist before this. He sounds fairly young when he’s reading the statements (and when he gives his assessment of them it almost sounds like he’s trying to make himself sound older than he really is) and his seeming inability to understand that it would be better to get the hard copies of the files in chronological order before trying to digitize or record them were making me wonder. Jonathan, buddy? I hate to say this, but unless you pull some archiving info out of your head to wow me, your assistants may be better at this than you are. Yes, even Martin. Possibly especially Martin, given that he seems to have been working with the Archive in some capacity since 2010.

- Yeah, Elias sounds sketchy.

- So Tim’s the only one of the assistants you trust not to pull a prank on you? I guess I’ll have to file Tim away as the serious one.

- “But if anyone comes in ranting about dreaming my death, then I very much want to hear about it.” I’m just trying to imagine Jonathan’s possible conversation with Elias after this. Especially considering how high-strung he seems to be.

Jonathan: Hey, I just read a statement about some guy predicting Gertrude Robinson’s death in a dream. Elias: Don’t worry about it. Jonathan: But the statement is dated to just before she died. Elias: Dude, it’s not your business. Jonathan: It’s not my— You didn’t even tell me how she died! She could have overdosed on heroin at my desk for all I know! What else aren’t you telling me? Elias: Don’t worry about it. You know it’s all head-in-the-sand management around here—or did you not figure that out when I dumped you in a disorganized Archive filled with thousands of incomplete case files that hadn’t been organized according to any system, with only three assistants and no other help, and without giving you the slightest warning about the way Gertrude was running the place? I mean, if that didn’t tip you off that I’ve got no interest in giving you guidance of any kind, then I really don’t think there’s any hope for you. Jonathan: *not-so-internal screaming*

Friendly reminder that this is the kind of assignment that can make people start fantasizing about killing their boss.

EP 012: ‘First Aid’

- Yeah, so I have a new favorite episode. Already. I know; I’m fickle.

- I can speak to emergency rooms never really being empty, no matter the time of night. I had to go into the emergency room at three in the morning, once, and it was in a small hospital in a rural area, and me and my parents still weren’t the only ones in the emergency room. It wasn’t full by any stretch of the imagination—again, small hospital in a rural area—but there were other people there. There was also an asshole doctor who didn’t want to take seriously the idea that I was in any real pain or medical danger, despite the fact that my lower lip had swollen to about five size its normal size and was starting to split open and leak pus.

- So we see the weirdness start to infect the hospital early with the too-quiet waiting room.

- It occurred to me that for the two men to have been burned everywhere on their body (the older truly everywhere, and the younger everywhere below his neck where there wasn’t a tattoo), they also had second-degree burns on their genitals. I flinch in sympathy, no matter what these two were getting up to that led to the burns.

- Oh, look, Jared Key’s back! I’m sure that won’t be important at all.

- I do wonder what happened that the burns stopped at his neck.

- And Jared has been tied to eye imagery again. My Tolkien roots are showing, but I am reminded a bit of the Lidless Eye, always watching.

- The bit about everyone in the hospital apart from the patients too ill to be moved disappearing (and later shown to all get up at the same time and file outside to parts and for reasons unknown) is pretty creepy. I do wonder how the patients who could get up and go outside fared, considering it was December in Britain, where it tends to snow at that time of year.

- “It sounded like… the growl of an animal, a rolling, angry sound, and I realized that the floor was shaking ever so slightly.” What was going on with the vending machine could potentially account for this, but I also like the idea of the slowly creeping horror, invisibly stalking the halls of the hospital.

- “And then I saw it. […] But I now saw that the one on the left, a clear-fronted machine that stocked bottled soft drinks, was shaking violently. As I got nearer, I saw why. In every bottle, in every row of the machine, the drinks appeared to be violently boiling. Cokes and lemonades and fruit juices shook and bubble, before one by one, the bottles exploded, coating the inside of the clear plastic front with liquid that still kept steaming and hissing. It couldn’t have taken more than thirty seconds for all of them to pop.”

One: great description. Two: I wonder what the people who restock the vending machines made of this.

- Jared is just as ambiguous a figure in this episode as he was in ‘Page Turner.’ His actions in the events of the episode itself are beneficial to the narrator—it’s possible that he saved both of their lives—but he’s clearly caught up in the affairs of things moving just beyond our ability to see them. Things that are not benevolent. He doesn’t come off as being malicious in personality, but he’s still caught up in a lot of shady shit. And we’ve seen him kill at least once, possibly at least twice if he killed his mother and didn’t just skin her after she voluntarily committed suicide.

- “Something told me if there was a coherent explanation for everything that had happened since the ambulance arrived, then I would be no better off for knowing it.” What, no, listen, Lesere, this is absolutely the time to be asking questions.

- “Better beholding than the lightless flame.” Something to file away, I guess.

- I hope we get more information about Jared later.

- Jared was released into the care of his mother? Wasn’t Mary already dead by this point? Let me check ‘Page Turner.’ *checks ‘Page Turner’* Okay, the events of the episode take place in December 2011, and Mary turned up dead in 2008. So what, is she not really dead? Is the ghost Jared summoned with ‘Key of Solomon’ able to move around outside of their old bookstore/house? Was that someone pretending to be Jared’s mother? Well, at least now I know what Jared meant when he said he’d had worse burns than the ones you get picking up a super-heated metal trashcan.

- And now Lesere feels like she’s being watched. Lady, if I was you, I’d be more concerned by that.

- Yeah, where did they all go? Because the patients who could walk went outside, too, and I feel like standing in your bare feet in the snow for fifteen minutes would be injurious.

- “The feed cuts out for less than a second, and is replaced for a single frame, by a close-up of a human eye staring back through the video feed.” Yeah, that’s… that’s not good. You don’t want these sorts of things to take notice of you.

#ncfan listens to The Magnus Archives

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theinquisitivej · 7 years ago

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‘The Shape of Water’ – A Movie Review

It could be the cynical side of me showing its ugly face, but hearing for months about how good a film is, and consistently seeing a trailer for it at every one of my last half dozen trips to the cinema is the sort of thing that makes me sceptical about a movie. Such was my experience with the leadup to The Shape of Water. I was concerned that it wouldn’t connect with me as strongly as I had hoped it would. However, one factor kept my faith in the film alive, and that was its director Guillermo del Toro, a singular talent whose attention to detail, intoxicating use of colour, and distinctive spirit makes him one of the best directors alive. When I eventually got to see this latest film of his, I was happy, but certainly not surprised, that it was just as delightful as I had been led to believe.

Drawing from old-school monster movies, parts of ‘Bioshock’s aesthetic, and several other artistic influences he clearly loves, del Toro creates a story about a mute woman named Elisa. She’s a cleaner at a local facility which has recently acquired an intimidating Fish Man, which looks similar to the Creature from the Black Lagoon, for research purposes. Elisa’s fascination with the Fish Man grows as she learns to communicate with him and forms an intimate connection with him. As it is 1962 and the Cold War is in full swing, the Fish Man is of great interest to sinister individuals on both sides of the conflict. Elisa resolves to protect the Fish Man from these forces, and, in the process, falls in love with this unique creature.

As strange as it sounds when discussing a film about a woman having sex with a fish man, The Shape of Water is a relatively straight forward and familiar story. It’s a tale about a person forming a beautiful romantic connection which society won’t accept, and then that character makes a stand against oppressive forces just for the right to experience that love. It evokes a classic fairy-tale in much the same way as Pan’s Labyrinth did, though perhaps not quite as intensely. However, straight-forward should not be confused with shallow, as one of del Toro’s many strengths is his capacity for wrapping simple, approachable narratives with deliberate subtext which deepens the experience but is not essential for a viewer’s enjoyment.

Little details come together to reinforce our central impressions of the film’s themes and characters. We can tell from the dialogue, performances, and presentation of the early scenes of Elisa interacting with her friends that they care for her just as she cares for them, but you can also see that her friends take her slightly for granted, even if they don’t realise it. They often talk without looking at her, and, given Elisa’s need for people to be looking at her when she’s using sign language, this action subconsciously denies Elisa the chance to contribute to or affect the conversation. Elisa has slotted into the role of a passive listener, and while her friends haven’t done any of this maliciously or intentionally, it does make her seem very lonely in that even her friends aren’t really listening to what she has to say. With that in mind, it’s easy to see why this creature, who always gazes at her with complete focus and attention, and learns new concepts by observing her sign language, would be so attractive for her.

Meanwhile, Strickland, the man who initially captured the Fish Man and is the film’s main antagonist, is repeatedly associated with visual indications of self-destruction and inhumane behaviour. Parts of his possessions and physical body get damaged in a manner that suggests that these things he clings onto as signs of his own masculinity and dominance are falling apart because they are rotten at their core. The film also makes sure to show the social pressures which frame Strickland’s evil behaviour as not only resulting from something being broken inside him, but is a mindset that has been stoked by an unforgiving system which demands results at any cost.

Neither of these insights into these characters are explicitly stated, or even that essential to enjoying the movie or picking up what it’s about. But it adds texture to the film and its characters, and the whole film is built from the ground up with this sense of meticulous craft placed into every detail of its visuals. Each scene glows with a distinct colour, filling you with different moods and emotions from scene to scene which you can’t quite process at the time, but nevertheless feel with remarkable clarity. The movie’s greens feel deeply green, its golds are especially gold, its reds are strikingly red, and so on. An unspoken comparison is made between Elisa’s sign language, which Sally Hawkins carries out with compelling force and conviction, and Doug Jones’ signature dextrous hand movements which fills the Fish Man with mystery and charm. The characterisation of Giles and Zelda, Elisa’s friends, fleshes out the film’s theme of presenting different characters who are all, in their own way, lonely, which makes the love shared between Elisa and the Creature all the more triumphant. The film is jam-packed with detail, and yet it avoids coming off as ostentatious. It never overloads you with visual noise, and everything it shows you has a deliberate intention behind it. You may be able to predict where the general structure of its story will lead, but when the film is as much of a treat to experience scene to scene as this, that hardly seems to matter.

It may not be at the very top of my list of del Toro films, but ‘The Shape of Water’ certainly is another reminder of his skills as a director. It’s lyrical, sweet, and takes inspiration from a variety of sources to create something both familiar and refreshingly new. This film, like most of Guillermo del Toro’s work, is priority viewing.

9/10.

Even if you don’t like it, at least you get to say you saw a film about the mum from Paddington getting it on with a fish.

#The Inquisitive J #film #films #movies #film review #film reviews #movie review #film critic #movie critic #film critique #film criticism #guillermo del toro #del toro #the shape of water #the shape of water review #the inquisitive j reviews

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izzyovercoffee · 7 years ago

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I have some a lot of thoughts about Cayde-6 and Ikora Rey, but since everyone loves and has talked forever about Cayde, I’ll just stick to Ikora. This is going under a cut because it’s long and kind of rambling. It’s a combination of meta and headcanons, because character interpretations can get kind of nebulous.

Also I wish I recorded this line lmao, but:

"---IKORA, NO! YOU ARE NOT BAILING ON ME AGAIN ... best spicy noodles in the entire city, guaranteed ... That's what I thought."

---overheard radio chatter on the tower, Cayde-6 to Ikora Rey [presumably]

Can I just say their friendship kills me? All of it is fairly subtle subtext, but Cayde knows Ikora well, and Ikora clearly knows Cayde well. They’ve known each other for more than a century (Ikora’s 25-win streak in the Crucible is approx. 125 (126?) years before the events of Destiny 2, and Cayde makes references to her Crucible days often).

When no one in the galaxy, as implied by the dialogue, knew where Ikora was, Cayde didn’t even have to consider. Because he knows her. Zavala, who's worked with Ikora for (I’m assuming) longer than Cayde has, did not have any idea where Ikora could be. Yet Cayde didn't hesitate, at all. He went from all-jokes to immediately somber/sober when he said it. “Io. She’s on Io.”

No doubt, no hesitation. Certainty, and something like ... sadness, I guess, in his voice. At the very least it was jarring in comparison to the lines immediately before it. We don’t even get a segue from the jokes into the answer.

And it’s bugged me that people apparently still believe that Cayde and Ikora are not close, or are not friends---even after that line. I mean, there’s more to it than that, but just that line speaks to more than just knowing someone. There’s an intimacy there that’s required to have that kind of absolute certainty.

Cayde knows Ikora so well he knows exactly where she’d go on a journey to rediscover her sense of self and purpose when the galaxy has gone to hell, and when the world’s fallen to pieces around them. In the face of complete and total disaster and destruction, in the wake of soul-shattering defeat, Cayde knows Ikora well enough to know where she would go to re-center herself---and Io is an extremely personal place for Ikora. It is, essentially, a sacred place that she holds close to the chest, as Ikora is a private person and what Io means to Ikora is deeply personal, and deeply private.

There’s really no way Cayde would know, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that Ikora would embark on an impromptu pilgrimage to Io without telling anyone ... unless he knew Ikora on a personal level, beyond casual work acquaintance, even beyond casual friendship---and they do have a foundation that implies a friendship there.

It’s a little frustrating to see people treat Cayde as if he’s forever alone, as if he has almost no friends or is close to next to no one aside from Amanda, and maybe Shiro---when, even as far back as Destiny 1, there was subtext to suggest that Ikora and Cayde were, at the very least, friendly, if not friends, if not, even, good friends.

I think, the biggest issue in misreading Ikora’s interactions with Cayde is just an overall lack of familiarity with Ikora in general. People tend to take understatement at face value, people take very dry, wry, humor at face value, and then miss everything subtly nuanced about her character.

Ikora Rey is clearly a private person. We know next to nothing about her history. We don’t know much about her as a person, which ... honestly, seems right for her character, who keeps private matters, and personal matters, private as a matter of course. But that also makes Ikora hard to read.

Her character doesn't really express herself to the extremes that Cayde, or even Zavala, do---but that doesn’t mean she is expressionless, or emotionless (which I’ve actually seen suggested on this site ... which, yikes lmao, but anyway). She’s a professional---but she also has the capacity for extreme emotions, extreme violence (as we see in Homecoming). If anything, I’d suggest that she works, tirelessly, to keep a cap on her emotions---she talks often of keeping centered, of maintaining balance, and her idle dialogue circles around hearing voices or feeling things, being drawn to far reaches where the Light cannot be found, of being drawn to temptation of darker things.

And what Cayde offers to Ikora is a personality that balances hers.

Cayde is, sometimes, the far opposite to her in personality. Where Ikora seeks to maintain a calm center, Cayde is a wildcard and acts just like it. Where Ikora maintains a somewhat distant professional air, Cayde is casual and overly friendly. Where Ikora is focused inward and is arguably an introvert, Cayde is clearly comfortable socializing and be surrounded by noise, like an extrovert.

They have what’s implied a shared history beyond the Vanguard (the Crucible, which Ikora competed in before she became a Vanguard), and similar backgrounds (preferring the wilderness to people, preferring isolation to the city), and even similar temperament (’"You stand for something immutable and transcendent. Act like it." --- reprimand to a younger Ikora Rey’, though Cayde hasn’t quite grown out of his wisecracking habits while Ikora has, by now).

Ikora “tolerates” Cayde’s jokes, though I would suggest she actually appreciates them---for one, she doesn’t strike me as a person to not comment on something she doesn’t like, and for two, the implication in the linked transcript is “That’s why you’re here, instead of Eris” in Cayde’s response to Ikora. The casual reference to Ikora in the Crucible later in that same strike, and then Ikora rounding off the transcript by suggesting Cayde interact with Eris (who is ... very, very cross and hostile towards Cayde, and Ikora is clearly saying it to get a rise out of him, which is exactly what happens), suggests, to me, an actual friendship between them.

Cayde makes light, but Ikora doesn’t tell him to stop---she subtly reminds him that if she were someone else, she might. He counters that she isn’t, and he’s right.

Here’s another thing: he jokes about how scary she is, all the time, and Ikora’s idle commentary in D2 indicates that this is a thing people don’t joke about, that this is a common barrier towards her (”I’m not that intimidating”). And with the way Ikora actually laughs about being seen as intimidating, as if it’s genuinely funny that she scares people simply by existing, seems to be a running joke that is no longer supported or perpetuated by just Cayde.

Generally, Cayde is presented as a character who might just joke about anything, but these jokes always come from a personal place or point of reference ... and friends joke like this, all the time---especially if this friend of their’s is terrifying to others. Ikora’s certainly self aware enough to know it’s “a thing,” and Cayde’s never been one to miss an opportunity to poke fun at something that everyone else decidedly thinks shouldn’t be poked.

Cayde often makes oblique remarks towards, regarding, or with Ikora, usually joking in some way or lamenting Warlocks “in general” (which we can assume is in reference to how scary Ikora is in combat/was in the Crucible). Cayde references Ikora enough times that I at least noticed a pattern, at least during the main story and idle commentary, and the things he says suggests a familiarity that I've seen most people kinda … either outright disregard or write off as Cayde “just being Cayde.”

But even if Ikora was a superstar that everyone knew about in the Crucible, the way Cayde references those days very casually and all the goddamn time, as if they were yesterday and not in actuality more than a century ago, indicates that, at the very least, he followed her Crucible career very closely (much like how people follow certain MMA fighters, for example). Even more likely, he was either competing with her in the Crucible, or was on the receiving end of her ... very hard won focus. Or maybe both. Maybe he followed her career, and he fought alongside her and against her---and despite the passage of time, she left such an impression on him that he will always slip a comment in, because how can’t he?

But anyway. Her telling him to go talk to Eris is her subtly teasing him (she, genuinely, sounds like she’s trying hard not to laugh when she says: “You should tell her.” There’s so much sheer amusement folded into that one simple line), riffing him like he’s done her, and Cayde responds with the same seriousness Ikora gave him at the start. It’s a nice kind of full-circle moment.

Ikora does, actually, crack jokes from time to time---but it’s in the way she says things, in her tone and the delivery of what she says, that can often send the joke flying over our head. Like she’s laughing, deep down, but for the sake of professionalism she will not actually laugh, but we can hear it in her voice if we would only listen carefully.

She jokes in a few of the Io adventures---cracking an easy-to-miss pun (or play on words?) during a somewhat serious situation with the Taken that has Asher Mir angrily groaning. And I would have missed it, easily, if I wasn’t listening to how she said it.

So then, when she talks to Cayde, as compared to missions on Io with Asher, or in serious cinematic scenes, there’s often subtle string of amusement. She will tease him, if the opportunity presents itself. She will show concern, if she notices something is amiss (”What happened to you on Nessus?” comes to mind---as Ikora doesn’t ask things if she doesn’t want to know, but we’re not privy to that conversation if they have it).

Other things of note: Cayde’s longing for leaving the tower and returning to the wilderness is very likely echoed by Ikora.

Sure, Ikora, now, as a more mature person with responsibilities she takes very seriously, never actually complains out loud---but she spent most of her life alone, in the wilds, exploring the system, and getting into adventures trouble. She chose to spend more of her younger years alone in the wilds, pursuing adventure and exploration, and she’s been very clearly reprimanded in the past for immaturity of some kind. For her to give up that freedom, to be sequestered to the Tower for her duty ... has to feel restricting, or had to have felt that way in the early days after she was assigned the Warlock Vanguard position. She should, and likely does, relate to Cayde in having that itch, or that need, to just go, to leave---but she’s just not the type to complain.

But that’s such a major part of who she is, her history shaped who she’s become, and it’s something of a huge shared quality between her and Cayde.

And tbh it’s unfortunate that this commonality they share is either not known or is completely ignored, simply because she doesn’t complain about it while Cayde is so, so vocal. This is something major that they have in common between them. It takes a certain kind of person to consistently choose the wilderness and to travel alone, and both Cayde and Ikora choose isolation and the wilderness when given the chance.

Add onto that, that both Ikora and Cayde lost someone close to them when they took up the Vanguard position---and in that same moment, also had to give up their freedom of coming and going as they please, the freedom of being able to choose isolation, and the wilds, over people and the city.

And then there’s the idle dialogue I quoted at the start.

They go out to eat together, to the ramen shop---and Cayde convinces her not to back out, not with his agitated disappointment, but by telling her they have the best spicy noodles. He knows what to say to convince her to go out when she maybe doesn’t really want to, he knows she will be persuaded by spicy noodles.

Overheard radio chatter indicates Cayde is very, very familiar with Ikora’s tea habits, and that she will never stop drinking tea.

These are small, small details, but they’re the kind of details one picks up not just when working closely with someone---but when one wants to spend actual, personal time with them, outside of work. The implication is that this isn’t the first time they’ve gone to get ramen together. The implication is that Cayde is so familiar with Ikora’s very specific tea-drinking habits that he’s probably found it annoying, even grating, then maybe endearing, only to probably circle back and find it annoying again. The implication is that Ikora knows how to push Cayde’s buttons and does it only when the perfect opportunity arises. The implication is that they have conversations and often, and when Cayde is trapped in a perpetual Vex loop of total disaster and that might just be the end of Cayde as we know it ... Cayde is thinking about Ikora, and wishing he’d listened closer, and likely wishing he could speak to her again. The implication is that Ikora appreciates the levity Cayde brings to the table, because it is needed.

The implication is that these two balance each other out in ways they both need---Ikora, without Cayde, is too serious. Cayde, without Ikora, is not serious enough. Ikora, without Cayde, doesn’t have enough excuses to go out and relax. Cayde, without Ikora, has a hard time keeping his feet on the ground, has a hard time staying grounded.

And, you know, in all the strikes they oversee together, they work together really well, and they work off each other well.

Plus I suspect Ikora always knows Cayde is up to something, and Cayde knows she knows, and Ikora knows he knows she knows ... but Ikora won’t move to stop him because he usually does, actually, have good plans. Maybe, you know, not the best plans, but they’re the best when no one else has even one. And, anyway, I’m sure those “hypothetically speaking, let’s say if---” conversations between the two of them outside of Zavala’s earshot must be endlessly entertaining. Or, at the very least, interesting.

#Ikora Rey #Cayde 6 #Cayde-6 #destiny 2 #i wish i saw more Ikora content out there tbh since she's SUCH a great and interesting character #alas it is not so #anyway i'll just throw this down since i've been mulling over it for a while #it's very rambly and for that im sorry #izzy plays destiny #g: destiny 2 #izzy talks destiny #i dont have a q tag but i should

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reactingtosomething · 8 years ago

Text

Reacting to Crazy, Stupid, Love

Old Fashioneds for Charity: A Cocktail Philanthropy

The Setup: Kris actually gets into the long version of the Setup below, but this is also the first time all four of us have Reacted to Something together in real time! So it’s super long and a little clunkier than usual, but hopefully also fun. We’ll probably try to do it again at some point.

As always, post-chat annotations are in italics, and you can click on the first appearances of our names to see summaries of the TV shows, movies, and other things that influence our points of view.

LIZ: soo.. Crazy, Stupid, Love.. am I RIGHT?!

KRIS: I’m worried I’m going to disappoint all of you

(Are we all here?)

MARCHAE: Yes!!

MIRI: You laughed out loud multiple times while we watched

KRIS: Yes

MIRI: I don’t think you’ll disappoint us

LIZ: Kris, don’t be worried. We will just unfriend you on social media first and

THEN cut off all contact

IF THAT HAPPENS

MIRI: hahahahaha

LIZ: ❤️

MIRI: So, Kris--thoguhts?

MARCHAE: LOL

MIRI: Or thoughts

whichever you feel like

LIZ: I forgot so much.. Kris go first

MARCHAE: I want them ALLLL

LIZ: General opinion/ reaction then nitty gritty!?

KRIS: I guess I’d like to start with the [name of my writing teacher] story first

Just to explain how we got here

MIRI: Ok, please do

MARCHAE: storytime with kris

KRIS: We’re just jumping right into like late second-act spoilers for Crazy Stupid Love, dear readers, all eight of you

MIRI: omg ❤️

KRIS: So [Writing Teacher] wanted to give us an example of subtext

And writing dialogue that doesn’t suck

So she gave us a scene, minus action description and names, and it’s a woman asking a man for advice on fixing a water heater

And she asks, what do you think this scene is about?

And we know it’s a trick question, but for whatever reason even the people who’ve seen the movie haven’t picked up on it yet

So the answers are like “she doesn’t really want to ask for his help”

LIZ: Sneaky. Love it

KRIS: And then [Writing Teacher] turns on the TV and there’s the title screen for Crazy Stupid Love, and some people are like ohhhh

And [Writing Teacher] doesn’t say anything and she goes to the scene, and obviously it’s not even remotely about a water heater

And more people are like OHHHHH yeah

And I was like, damn

That’s good

And I guess I was over at Miri’s, or maybe we met somewhere for something, and I was telling this story

MIRI: “Damn. That’s good. Maybe I should listen to Miri when she tells me to watch things”

KRIS: And it comes up that I haven’t seen the movie

And Miri is like

MARCHAE: (Which is still unbelievable)

KRIS:

MIRI: You’ve used that gif about me more than once

KRIS: Yes I have

It’s a good gif!

I like Elizabeth Jennings!

MIRI: And I am still complimented and also concerned

It is an excellent gif

KRIS: So this was October, I think

MIRI: I like her too but I’m not sure I should want to be her!

October sounds right

LIZ: I dont think his advice was even legit to be honest so don’t read it or watch it if you are struggling with a water heater issue!

Liz is looking out for us all, dear readers

READ THE MANUAL

KRIS: And every once in awhile it would come up and Miri sort of led this slow-but-steady charge of We’re Going to Make Kris Watch Crazy Stupid Love

and Kelly signed onto this in some capacity

Kelly is Miri’s roommate and another friend from our grad program

And obviously Marchae and Lemon

Reminder: Lemon = Liz

So here we are

MIRI: We’re humanitarians like that

Here we are!

KRIS: that was a looooot of preamble

sorry

MARCHAE: (And we had to get you on board with Hamilton too... kris I see a pattern)

MIRI: I like the preamble. Now, tell us your thoughts!

KRIS: I liked it?

See this is why I’m worried about disappointing you

MIRI: Are you not sure about that?

Or do you just not have more expansive thoughts?

KRIS: No, I’m sure

LIZ: you did like it or you liked it ?

KRIS: I’m sure there are more thoughts, but I’ll need some prompting, I guess

MARCHAE: I'm sitting on the edge of my seat her!!!

Here*

MIRI: Ok, we can prompt

LIZ: Who cares what we think! I took some notes because I forget a lot of things and a lot of my notes were sassy.. so what?

KRIS: I think the only thing I’d seen Gosling in before this was The Nice Guys

MARCHAE: Ok can you talk about the Ryan Gossling character

LIZ: MASCULINITY

MIRI: WHAT

LIZ: GOD

MIRI: ???

LIZ: go*

KRIS: and probably a couple of episodes of Young Hercules

LIZ: hahaha

MIRI: WHAAAT?

LIZ: this is a topic for another day

MIRI: True

KRIS: I never saw The Notebook

MARCHAE: What!?!

LIZ: LASDKF;SLAKGJASL;KFJASLKJF

MARCHAE: What is happening!?!?!

WHAT IS HAPPENING

LIZ: You need to want ALL OF IT EVERY DAY (the notebook that is)

KRIS: I can see there’s going to be a Make Kris Not a Philistine syllabus at some point

MIRI: YES

But also you have tons for us to watch too

KRIS: I guess where I was going with this is that I realized watching CSL that Gosling has pretty strong Brad Pitt vibes

MIRI: Focusing on this movie!

RYAN GOSLINGS IS SO HOT in this. And I love that he’s hyper masculine without being so in all ways.

KRIS: Does that seem right? Or was this not representative?

LIZ: Talk about... representation in this movie... I had a lot of questions about masculinity rewatching

MARCHAE: Ew

So did I liz

LIZ: and then about how women are portrayed obviously always.. but what are your gut reaction thoughts

MIRI: Like, he’s got some slightly effeminate affectations that go with his kind of dandy vibe

MARCHAE: And Miri to be clear the ew was for you

MIRI: Um ouch??

KRIS: Hang on I’m just pulling up IMDB to get character names

LIZ: ew what? he’s very hot

MIRI: You don’t think he’s hot?

LIZ: did you not see his body

MIRI: He’s hot!!

It’s like he’s photoshopped!

LIZ: HAHAHA exactly

MARCHAE: And now you liz. No i think he generally looks dehydrated and like he needs to bathe

LIZ: ........

MARCHAE: The photoshopped line is funny but no

LIZ: He has a tan?

MARCHAE: Go on Kris

KRIS: Marchae’s descriptions of unattractiveness are always so specific

Miri: Marchae once told me she thinks the Rock looks like a toe and I have NEVER forgiven her for it.

MARCHAE: I am also tanned

MIRI: Ohh, you’ve had this complaint about him before that he needs to wash

K: Marchae was not rooting for La La Land during the Oscars

KRIS: “dehydrated”

MIRI: Ok, let’s talk about toxic masculinity and this film’s deconstruction of it Because I’m into it

KRIS: OK

MARCHAE: Yeah the bags under/around his eyes -dehydration

LIZ: lol at marchae’s tan.. and nobody’s here to say YOU ARENT HOTT! ❤️ 😉

MIRI: very true! 🔥

MARCHAE: Thanks gang

MIRI: I think the film is pretty clear on the fact that Jacob’s perspective on women for most of the film is not super healthy or ok

(and also he could use some therapy)

MARCHAE: Ok so I did [rewatch] and I think because I knew we were talking pay more attention to how okay women are with RGs character

MIRI: And we’re all tired of the whole The Right Woman SAVED Him narrative, but I do like that he has actual growth

I would argue that he’s a womanizer, but not a misogynist

KRIS: (I did wish both Emily and Hannah had bigger stories in this)

MIRI: (or at least not to the extent of most)

Kris, I second that

MARCHAE: Same here

MIRI: And not just because they are both such talented actors

The movie is mostly about the men’s growth

MARCHAE: Miri I feel like he might teeter on that line. He almost feels he has a right to these women he seeks out

MIRI: But the women are allowed to be characters rather than set pieces more than most

MARCHAE: Kind of like that one that's the one I want and I will get her

KRIS: Yeah, and of course it’s not inherently objectionable that this is a story about two dudes

MIRI: except the women they sleep with, mostly

Very true! I think we could use more stories about men having emotional growth and healthy friendships

MARCHAE: No not at all (three if you track the little boys story)

YES!!!

MIRI: The whole “You don’t ask them, you tell them that they want to come home with you” thing is not great. It’s pretty bad. But it’s also not the language that they ever use when actually talking to women--it’s always “wanna get out of here” type stuff

So I think that Jacob is not as much of a misogynist as he thinks he is!

I may be being too forgiving

But I love him

LIZ: I think he feels less entitled to the women and more just confident in his “game” bc consent is obviously important to him.. he doesn’t have to talk anyone into anything, which SHOULD BE THE WAY IT ALWAYS IS but unfortunately is not in real life and in how “wooing” is portrayed in film and what nots

MIRI: Very true! He’s super forward, but will take no for an answer without being creepy

KRIS: I feel like on the page Jacob would probably come off as more of a dick

Gosling underplays it in a way, he’s very not Frat Dude

MARCHAE: I agree Kris!

MIRI: When he first hits on Hannah he keeps talking as she leaves, but he never gets up or tries to stop her (Again, low bar)

Yes!!

The performance really makes it

LIZ: That character could’ve easily ruined the movie

the shopping with Cal part is especially lovely

MIRI: Love that!

KRIS: I think that’s because Hannah specifically was never really his objective; at that point she’s interchangeable with any other woman he might want to take home

LIZ: I am a sucker for physical humor apparently (throwing his shoes and slapping him(

MARCHAE: I don't generally love him and Hannah/Nanna notes the ridiculous nature of the game he plays

MIRI: I also adore the section where they talk and have the infomercial stuff--one of my favorite film sequences

MARCHAE: So then I'm on board once the movie itself recognizes ok this guy is a doofus

MIRI: Do we believe that he actually remembered hitting on her that one time when she kisses him? Or is he just going with it?

KRIS: That’s an interesting question

I think the intent is that he remembers her

LIZ: Gosling also never said like “all I want is to have the sexy times with as many women as possible”.. he just is kind of good at it.. I think if he ever said that was all he cared about or aspired to be... he’d be an asshat of the highest caliber

MIRI: I think the movie always knows that he’s a doofus, but doesn’t show its cards early

KRIS: I’m not sure if it’s the answer that makes the most sense or is the most interesting

MIRI: I’ve never questioned it before

LIZ: I think he remembered her bc she turned him down

and we don’t see anyone else do that

KRIS: I buy that

MIRI: Nice

MARCHAE: *YAS LIZ*

MIRI: Do we believe his redemption? Or change of heart or whatever?

LIZ: But then I felt like.. masculinity is kind of very set in stone and in stages of life in this movie

I know it is more complex

but does society kind of not ask it to be?

MIRI: Say more

What stages do you see?

LIZ: The kid with the crush ... the womanizer sexy young guy... the sad dad/ divorcee with his walking shoes and ill fitting clothes

MIRI: And are you saying the movie reinforces those ideas about particular types of masculinity or no?

LIZ: Cal is able to kind of morph into Goslings characters TYPE and I think at the end he is his own person and a NEW version of a man, but the ENTIRE movie kind of puts men in boxes.. which is FINE BC WOMEN ARE USED TO THAT TOO

KRIS: Is this kind of a Dan Fogelman thing? I’m not super familiar with his corpus

LIZ: and the douche boyfriend of hannah is kind of the alternative to the sexy young guy.. the safe boring young guy like SHOULD I MARRY KOKOUM.. STEADY AS THE BEATING DRUM? that shit

I am asking.. because I don’t know!

MIRI: Hmmm

KRIS: I think these are definitely all types/boxes but I don’t know if I’d map them into linear stages

MIRI: Maybe it’s more a question of him using and playing with types than anything else

MARCHAE: Liz I notes that too though not as eloquently

KRIS: I got more of a “you can be this, or you can be that” vibe

MARCHAE: Noted*

LIZ: There is something to be said of the separated married couple trying to maybe make it work.. and the way Cal turns into a better human who cares about himself and then his life more too bc of that.. idk

yeah

MIRI: And then ultimately you can be you with an element of this and that if you want

LIZ: Like the wife is flawed, but open and trying from the first scenes where he rolls out of the car, which I appreciate

MIRI: While Cal’s journey gets way more screen time, I like the building blocks of Emily’s a lot

“Can women have midlife crises??” Yes, they totally can

LIZ: Yeah I agree, I’d have loved to see more Emily and Hannah

MIRI: And more of Liza Lapira, the friend!

KRIS: Also shout out to Asian Best Friend

MIRI: I love her and she never gets big enough parts!

LIZ: Right!?

MIRI: Kris, were weirdly in sync here and I love it

KRIS: There are like two not-white people in this movie and the other one is credited as “Hip Hairdresser”, so

MIRI: The phone call when Hannah is studying and ABF sees Jacob at the bar is hilarious

LIZ: She deserved to have something nice happen to her.. she gets creeped on by a fat old dude and gets to drool at Gosling! Not fair!

wow at hip hairdresser

MIRI: It is an extremely white movie

Like, down to the extras at the school and office

MARCHAE: Par for the course though for our friend Hollywood

KRIS: Unless you count Emma Stone

Sorry

Too easy

I’ll show myself out

MIRI: HAHAHAHAHHAHHAHA

LIZ: Yeah there is no reason why the babysitter and her family or the school staff or the people at the bar needed to be all white.. very gross

MIRI: Omg

It’s very 10 years ago, too

MARCHAE: *KRIS*

KRIS: Oh let’s see if we can finish this masculinity stuff but do remind me to come back to the bar set

as a set

MIRI: We will try

Kris, as our man do you have anything to say about masculinity?

LIZ: like the kid, the dad, the player, the douche.. then the kind of controlled by his wife married angry ish guy (the friend w the mays bag) those are the people to think of as a refresher of type of dudes

KRIS: I don’t know that I have any fresh insights you all haven’t covered

LIZ: insert(eggplant emoji)

well do you think that it has anything right or anything wrong?

MIRI: 🍆🍆🍆🍆🍆🍆🍆

LIZ: like the adolescent kid is actually given a good amount of depth

MIRI: There you go, Lemon

LIZ: thank you I didnt know if we could use those hhahahahha

MIRI: We can

MARCHAE: Can I say one thing

LIZ: well

🍆

MARCHAE: I did not love the end bit with the babysitter giving the kid the nude pics

MIRI: THANK YOU

MARCHAE: It was odd to me and not a thing I think a girl would do

MIRI: I find that pretty grody

KRIS: Yeah I didn’t love that whole story honestly

MARCHAE: Like here is my gift to you young flower

KRIS: And I understand that part of this is just my general aversion to humans who aren’t old enough to drink

MARCHAE: And No

MIRI: And technically distribution of child pornography since she’s 17

KRIS

K: As previously established, I am generally not a person who is won over by cuteness of the non-furry-quadruped variety. I’m the one who doesn’t say anything when one of the others sends baby pictures in our group text.

KRIS: But yeah, even the persistent text messages

MARCHAE: LOL

Yes and he kind of quasi stalks her

It's. Not. Cute

MIRI: Yeah, “I’m not going to stop sending messages that make her uncomfortable” is not great

KRIS: I guess I’m not sure when this came out in relation to our sort of broader cultural understanding of social media’s role in rape culture and harassment more broadly

LIZ: Technology moves so fast

KRIS: But that was all on my mind

MIRI: I think it was before that general realization

They still had slide out keyboard phones

MARCHAE: But not before the general realization of stalking

And harassment

LIZ: I think it is harrassment

MARCHAE: And the exchange of kid picks

KRIS: Yeah

MARCHAE: No adult human said

Young sir stop it's not cute

It was all

LIZ: I think things hit the fan sexting wise after this though

MARCHAE: Go get her!

KRIS: BOYS WILL BE BOYS

LIZ: BOYS WILL BE RAPISTS HAHAHAHAH SO CUTE

jk but actually

Her crush on Cal was disturbing

like.. no.

MIRI: He is her dad’s friend!!!

LIZ: I was a hott mess in all the ways as a teen, but no!

MARCHAE: I guess I was lost on why it was supposed to be cute

MIRI: As creepy and not ok as the kid story is, I do like some od it

LIZ: The little girl.. the youngest.. Lets write her sequel.. she needs the most therapy

MARCHAE: I thought all of this the first time

MIRI: Like it was definitely written by a guy not really getting the reality of rape cultre

culture

MARCHAE: RIGHT

MIRI: but I do like that his idea of love is neither purely romantic or solely sexual. He sees her as his soul mate and it’s nice to see more than one aspect of attraction represented in one

MARCHAE: Or the reality of LIFE

KRIS: I feel like a lot of this movie works better than it should because the performances aren’t too broad

Like everyone’s actually pretty easy to empathize with

MARCHAE: I think you're right though

If even one of them has been not redeemable it would have not worked

LIZ: I think soul mates are kind of bullshit.. which isn’t unromantic of me, but more like... we see that this idea can force things that are not right and its not good for young people to fixate on someone like that!

KRIS: Even Jessica (babysitter) isn’t presented as hysterical or like, hormone-addled

MIRI: True

Oh I think soul mates are bullshit too

MARCHAE: The kids are all pretty self aware

I guess that gives it the pass

KRIS: So as uncomfortable as the story is when you take a step back, from pretty early on -- I’m thinking the car scene when Cal drops Jessica off -- she’s kind of restrained and thoughtful

LIZ: the only semi hysterical female is the teacher

but i think she is kind of fucked with in ways that bring that out

MIRI: My computer is being weird so sorry if my texts come in at a weird delay

KRIS: So I guess I liked that Jessica is afforded the same amount of humanity as anyone else, if that makes sense

LIZ: right

KRIS: Marisa Tomei!

LIZ: she definitely is

MIRI: I just like that the kid who’s jerking off to a girl also likes her as more than a sex object

Yes

LIZ: Ugh that is so gross

MIRI: Marisa Tomei is so funny

What's gross?

LIZ: yes she’s great

MIRI: Him jerking off with her IN THE HOUSE?

LIZ: Just thinking about having kids of either sex that age

I can’t pick which one would be worse

KRIS: ha

MARCHAE: But he also isn't apologetic to the fact that he's made her uncomfortable about it and that's what bugs me

LIZ: he does apologize at one point

MIRI: I genuinely am bothered by that too

LIZ: but it kind of takes his world being crushed

which is odd

KRIS: Well, I don’t like it as a story but I buy it from a 13-year-old

MIRI: All of the men need to Grow Emotionally in this movie

LIZ: I guess

yep

MARCHAE: But doesn't he say I'd do it again and she laughs

MIRI: And the women mostly need to get outside their comfort zone, I guess?

K: I don’t think so, actually. I’d say it’s more something like, they need to be willing to say what they want/need from relationships, and/or don’t expect your partner to be a mind-reader.

MIRI: I like that reading. I also think they need to be willing to examine what they want for themselves--Jessica does’t end up with a partner but she seems to be happy and to have realized that pursuing a crush that inappropriate is probably not the way to go.

LIZ: I have specific questions at some point about certain parts of the movie

MIRI: Go for it!

LIZ: Hannah being seen as “chaste” by refusing Gosling’s advances kind of give her that angel dynamic, versus the slut thing that all of the women who readily go with him automatically might get, so then she DESERVES to hear about this parents and see his massage chair and be his one love... and I AM SO FUCKING SICK OF THAT

also.. I did note.. “WHY IS HIS MASSAGE CHAIR IN THE GARAGE? PEOPLE ARE STARVING” which was in the moment but I stand by it

MIRI: I never thought of it that way. I assume she’s been sleeping with Human Valium

LIZ: I have more but THOUGHTS?

KRIS: I think it’s totally in character for the chair to be abandoned in the garage

But to your larger point, yes

MIRI: Yes Jacob needs to stop trying to buy happiness and start volunteering and giving to charity and funding cool research or something

I think he’d find it much more rewarding

KRIS: I definitely think there’s a (really familiar) undercurrent of assuming most of the women Jacob sleeps with are empty airheads

MIRI: Definitely

LIZ: “Old Fashionds for Charity” a cocktail philanthropy

MIRI: “Am I boring you? I’m totally boring you!”

Well there’s the post title

Well done, Lemon

LIZ: Spelled wrong

lol

KRIS: We can spell it right in the heading

MIRI: There goes our integrity

LIZ: hahahhaa

MARCHAE: I didn't think they were airheads but maybe... as the kids would say

Thirsty

MIRI: I think the intent is that Hannah is the one that challenges him, not that she’s virginal

But it’s still kind of shitty

LIZ: I don’t want to feel seem like Im hating on Hannah btw

MIRI: No, you don’t!

KRIS: Yeah, I think it’s like “Hannah is a Woman of Substance”

LIZ: Her awkward, wet, weirdness where she says what she’s thinking is amazing and I really identify with it.

MIRI: I am a little concerned that she went from being ready for Valium to propose to in a pretty heavy relationship with Jacob over the course of a rainstorm

Yes! Great moment of weirdness

When she’s asking about the logistics of his moves it’s amazing

LIZ: I felt like she thought he might and shed be flattered, but I think she also might have had a come to jesus moment if he HAD proposed and left also

MIRI: Fair

KRIS: I got the sense there was a little bit of a time lapse presumed after they get together

LIZ: bc its at a cheese cake factory type of place (not that nice even) at a mall

MIRI: There’s at least a couple weeks

But still

LIZ: oh for sure

MIRI: The El Torito Grill!

KRIS: I mean even if it wasn’t a super intense relationship I buy her not breaking up with him because Dad Says So

LIZ: oh yeah, she’s an adult... that is insane

MIRI: Definitely!

KRIS: Oh, okay, so now that we’re here, I should say that the Twist worked well enough for me to say “Whaaaat” out loud

MIRI: But also she’s totally emotionally invested

He did!!!

LIZ: because you thought nana was a grandma?

MIRI: It was great!

KRIS: Up until that point, I was sort of like okay, this is a charming movie but I don’t feel a need to rewatch it ever

LIZ: also they are so into their kids.. why does she not come up! it is kind of CONVENIENT

KRIS: But now I would maybe want to rewatch it to see how they plant that

MIRI: They plant it well!

MARCHAE: "Charming"

KRIS: I did have a moment earlier in the movie of like “huh, they cast two redheads”

LIZ: ha

MIRI: When Cal talks about his kids it’s always “my youngest” (rather than my girl) and “I have kids--plural!”

MARCHAE: That's true and he also just calls Hannah Nanna right?

MIRI: right

KRIS: Yeah, and they do sort of plant the banana thing in the not-proposal scene, right?

Or maybe the earlier restaurant scene?

MARCHAE: Yeah!

KRIS: So at no point was I like “buddy, that’s a stretch”

MIRI: Hannah Banana!

LIZ: thats good

KRIS: I would just be curious to spot all the pieces being set up

LIZ: they definitely are

MIRI: It’s a good rewatch

MARCHAE: I like it a lot actually

LIZ: also.. there are cheesy parts.. which seem to be on the nose, but the movie is very self aware

like the rain starts and he says like “so cliche” or something

MIRI: Yes!

LIZ: but his kid is like “dad you did change, you just got new clothes” and I did think BARF OKAY NO

MIRI: And Emily actually mentions how things are “in the movies” when talking about midlife crises

Like, a cliche lampshading of a cliche is still cliche

KRIS: That did jump out at me

MARCHAE: It knew these things

KRIS: I don’t know if it bothered me but I don’t think I would’ve missed it either

LIZ: there was also a part about half way through where I realized why I like tv more most of the time.. like even if I had never seen it.. I knew what would happen and I am so sick of that fake roller coaster/ formulaic bs

MARCHAE: Does that make the movie smart

KRIS: I think it makes it self-satisfied

LIZ: No, but it is cute

MIRI: I think it’s both self-satisfied and cute

KRIS: sure

MIRI: Like, it’s a little annoying but I’ll allow it because I like the rest so much

MARCHAE: Fair

MIRI: Also this is not at all connected to what we’re talking about but “I don’t want your slutty money” is one of the best moments ever

LIZ: oh yeah

hahaha

MARCHAE: And Emily's response was the best

LIZ: because it isn’t overdone or too dramatic.. it is kind of exactly how someone would think they are really telling someone off, but it is more like a passing strange comment built up in their brain

what about kevin

they say his name 3084028408 times and I have forgotten it

MIRI: David Lindhagen

MARCHAE: I was like was his name Kevin?buut I'm there now

KRIS: I’d watched a couple episodes of I Love Dick shortly before this so I was like Oh hey, Kevin Bacon! but I don’t have deep thoughts

MARCHAE: I think the story could have easily been told without ever actually having seen him

KRIS: I liked that he wasn’t a cartoon villain

MIRI: But then we don’t get the fight scene!!!

Which is amazing!

Yes! I think he’s a nice seeming guy who is a little shitty for going after a married woman

LIZ: yeah the fight scene is great

MIRI: He’s not a massive dick, but he’s not a hero

LIZ: nobody really is ha

MIRI: Jacob’s desire to punch him is great

KRIS: Yeah, exactly, I did like that a lot about the movie

LIZ: except when cal calls the bartender.. a cocktail servant that is the meanest thing

Right that felt like real family

MIRI: But he’s definitely seen as being a dick for that

LIZ: like you can be mad at each other but still have a common enemy

MIRI: Even he knows it was dickish

KRIS: cocktail servant was weird, yeah

LIZ: yes he did

MIRI: Yeah I like the way the family can fight and still come together

Very genuine feeling

LIZ: another amazing part... “amy heard you crying in the bathroom. we all thought it was cancer.. thank god!”

and they don’t talk for a while but still kind of love each other and the what nots

KRIS: So about the bar set, I liked that Cal ended up back in that seat after having been in Jacob’s spot looking at some other balding sadsack who was obviously supposed to remind him of himself

It’s simple, but I liked that use of set geography to establish power dynamics

K: Off the top of my head, this AV Club article (on the study table in Community and the elevator in Captain America: The Winter Soldier) is my favorite little internet thing about using a set to establish, and then play with, audience expectations.

LIZ: with a straw!

MARCHAE: Ohhhhh nice!

LIZ: yeah

MIRI: Yes!

Very good use of space/visuals

My perpetual question about Jacob--is he supposed to be Jewish??

LIZ: I also don’t think any women go to that bar twice

for his whole scheme to work

MIRI: He says shvonz (I don’t even know how to spell that) and his name is Jacob.

This is my only evidence but I feel strongly about tit

LIZ: He feels Jewish and sometimes Italian to me haha

MIRI: Yes!

LIZ: maybe both!

MIRI: His actual pronunciation of words does not feel Jewish to me, but that could be regional

MIRI: Please note that I’m not trying to imply that all Jewish people must “sound Jewish.” For example, I have some of the speech patterns that characterize Jewish American speech but almost none of the pronunciations.

Yes, he could be both!

LIZ: but yeah the shvonz (autocorrect can’t guess a thing) seems like yiddish or pretend yiddish

MIRI: Definitely

LIZ: seems like eastern european with a spray tan and a come-as-it-pleases brooklyn accent

MIRI: (HOW MANY TIMES DO I SAY DEFINITELY IN EACH ONE OF THESE??)

LIZ: DEFINITELY A FEW TIMES

MIRI: hahahahahaha YES Liz

LIZ: no I didn’t notice hahaha

KRIS: About as many times as I say “like” and “for sure”

LIZ: or as many times as I ignore punctuation, spelling, capitalization, and grammar in general? jk that is always for me (IM NOT SORRY! I MAJORED IN IT AND I PROVED THAT I KNOW IT)

MIRI: hahahahahaha

KRIS: Marchae I feel like you must have four pages of handwritten notes, is there anything you’re dying to bring up that we haven’t covered?

MARCHAE: HAHAHAHAH

This time I didn't have as many notes!

LIZ: HA

good! that means you just watched and enjoyed!

MARCHAE: My thing was mostly the odd kiddie crush bits that we covered

KRIS: Yeah interestingly I feel like there’s not a lot to overthink here outside of larger cultural issues

LIZ: Why didn’t Jacob buy Cal’s drinks or some of his clothes?

His house is like.. clearly a 4 million dollar plus home

KRIS: Does he ever say what his job is?

MARCHAE: I also wanted to add that I want a story that focuses on Hannah and Jacob

MIRI: That’s true. Like, there’s a lot that’s done really well but it doesn’t take ling to say that

MARCHAE: He's a hustler kris

LIZ: I think he got a large inheritance

KRIS: oh right

LIZ: (pillow talk exposition)

Hesssss a hustler babyyyyy

MARCHAE: Ha!

MIRI: At least he’s not a scrub

LIZ: he knows about new balance rules and he eats pizza w a napkin!

KRIS: That pizza thing is actually the first moment where I thought of Brad Pitt

I think because of Rusty in the Ocean’s movies

LIZ: I think you can wear stylish and supportive footwear btw.. I didn’t like that message

MIRI: Sbaru Sbarro?

I love that moment

LIZ: Brad isn’t my fav

MIRI: Yes, Jacob has some unhealthy rules

KRIS: But he has a similar low-key charisma

LIZ: If you think Brad is charismatic

can you seriously go watch the notebook

MARCHAE: Brad Pitt does?

KRIS: I mean I’ve always liked him

MIRI: In Oceans he totally is

Whether you like him in general or not

LIZ: People don’t forget is all I’ll say about thim

MIRI: We should have Kris and Marchae do a Notebook reaction

And Liz just annotates after

MARCHAE: See the notebook makes me cry

LIZ: oh yes

of course it does

(no spoilies)

MARCHAE: I won't

I'd be down!

LIZ: 😀

MIRI: Ok, anything else we want to say about CSL?

KRIS: I don’t actually harbor DEEP resentment toward Emma Stone for Aloha

MARCHAE: HAHAHA

KRIS: I just hope she makes better choices in the future

LOOKING AT YOU, JOHANSSON

MIRI: Agreed

UGHHHHHH agreed

MARCHAE: Yes!!!!!!!!

MIRI: Like, learn from your mistakes

Stop making even bigger ones

K: Actually I just realized, I’m not sure what else you’re referring to besides Ghost in the Shell.

MIRI: Lucy. While not actually a case of whitewashing, it is pretty bad on the Yellow Peril front and she caught some flak for it...and then upped the ante by playing a Japanese character in Ghost in the Shell.

K: Look, I stopped paying attention to Lucy the second I realized it was premised on that “we only use 10 percent of our brains!” horseshit.

But Johansson didn’t write Lucy, and it was what “proved” she could carry an action movie on her own, so I’m inclined to cut her slack there that I’m not willing to cut her for taking on a specifically whitewashed lead role in Ghost. Expecting actors to answer for writers and directors (in this case Luc Besson) is a slippery slope. Go too far, and it’s like blaming Candice Patton for The Flash writers’ inability to make Iris more than a damsel in distress for longer than half an episode at a time.

MIRI: Very true! I think Lucy is excusable, but Lucy and Ghost combined makes for an uncomfortable pattern. And yes, the 10% of the brain thing is ridiculous.

KRIS: I do like the whole Woody Harrelson Introduced Emma Stone and Brie Larson and Jennifer Lawrence to Each Other thing

MARCHAE: YES MADAM HOT SAUCE DISAPPOINTED ME

LIZ: Amazing

KRIS: We have to talk about this Madam Hot Sauce thing

And we will -- or at least, Marchae will, with our very first Guest Reactor sometime in the next week or two. Because apparently “Madam Hot Sauce” is what Marchae calls Scarlett Johansson, and Marchae has discovered that she has strong opinions about the Marvel Cinematic Universe.

#crazy stupid love #ryan gosling #emma stone #steve carell #julianne moore #liz #kris #marchae #miri #peer pressure #movies #check out our first cliffhanger ending y'all #reaction

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sunlitroom · 8 years ago

Text

@millicentcordelia said

I was glad to see this post. There’s been so much talk of Oswald not understanding what love is, or caring about another person. He made a huge sacrifice to keep Jim out of jail, and look at what it ended up costing him.

Oswald knew that Jim and Leslie were engaged, that she was expecting a baby. Oswald was never anything but nice to Leslie. He had no expectations by this point that Jim was going to return any feelings that he may have had for Jim. The most he could have been hoping for was friendship.

This also reminds me that Jim treated Oswald callously when Oswald was in Arkham and has never apologized or addressed that in any way.

@sunlitroom said

Yes - this idea that Oswald just learned that this is what love meant was silly. He took the fall for Jim with no expectation of a favour in return. It was unselfish and big-hearted.

It was why the ‘what good is love if it’s one-sided’ line was silly - because we know what good it is: it actually brought the best out of Oswald.

Even beyond romantic relationships - we see Oswald loves his parents. He was willing to dance to Galavan’s tune to get Gertrud back, and cared for his ill father. He was even desperate for his stepfamily to accept him, to the extent where he was willing to live as their servant.

When a storyline is dependent on the audience forgetting a whole load of plotpoints and characterisation - it’s a poor storyline.

@millicentcordelia - I think the scene in Jim’s hallucination has told us, at least, that it plays in his mind. He knows Oswald put himself in danger’s way for him, he knows there’s a bond there, he knows he shouldn’t have left him behind.

One thing that’s tricky about that storyline is that although it’s hideous to the viewer - because we know what Hugo’s doing - Jim doesn’t know what’s actually going on.

He’s desperate to dissociate himself from Galavan’s murder - and so he does what he tends to do, puts himself on his moral high horse to create a division between himself and villains, because he’s terrified by how blurred that line is becoming.

So he looks down on Oswald for taking an insanity plea, and tells himself that Oswald should probably be doing time for some other crimes anyway. You see him weighing Oswald’s accusations about Hugo - there’s a flicker of doubt, and he looks him over - but it’s easier for him at that point to assume that Oswald is lying. Yes - it’s lazy, and it’s cowardly, and it’s hypocritical - but I think that if he had actually known what was going on, he wouldn’t have left him there. It would have been crossing the moral event horizon for him.

@littlehollyleaf said

@sunlitroom @millicentcordelia The way I’m understanding Ozzie supposedly just learning that love is about sacrificing personal happiness etc. is that the storyline is not trying to actually claim he hasn’t already experienced real love, but that:

a) Eddie is a twat (I say lovingly :p) who was utterly wrong about Ozzie’s ability to love, so his claims are not meant to count for much (and may have been based partly on misinformation - from what he knows of Ozzie’s relationship with Gertrude, it could seem Ozzie put his own criminal aspirations above her safety/happiness, and presumably Ed has no inkling of the depth of Ozzie’s sacrifices for Jim, seeing Oz lying for Jim as part of a failed alliance as opposed to a sign of selfless love?)

b) Ozzie’s own confusion about how to love and whether he was capable of it, and the way sacrificing for Eddie seemed a lightbulb moment for him, speaks to a deep lack of awareness/understanding of and insecurity about himself and his emotions. Like - I think there’s a case to be made that he never considered/recognised his feelings for Jim as love, even a friendship kind, but instead rationalised their relationship as a business friendship/alliance? (tho ofc in truth emotionally it WAS much more than that to Ozzie). Plus, he absolutely blames himself 100% for his mother’s death (see his Arkham dream!), so he maybe (probably?) believes he couldn’t have truly loved her or at least loved her right because if he did she wouldn’t have died. His father he didn’t know long enough to make sacrifices for, so never really had his loved ‘tested’ you could say, and well he did ofc kill his step-family, so probably doesn’t consider his feelings towards them as particularly loving because of that :p So the fact that he was delighted to have his love for Ed ‘proven’ seems a fitting reaction from him to me, because it’s potentially the only time (at least since his mother’s death) he has personally been both completely aware of his feelings and 100% sure of them as real/true/whatever.

So the ‘what good is love if it’s one sided?’ line - well yes WE have seen how good it was for Ozzie to love, but I imagine Ozzie himself wouldn’t have? Esp if we take it that he didn’t recognise his feelings for Jim as love - because that way, for Oz, his love for Ed would seem to be his first experience of romance, and as such it would be understandable for him to consider such an emotion as pointless if not returned I think?

Tl;dr - I don’t think the storyline was relying on the audience forgetting past plots and characterisation necessarily, because I think it was about developing/exploring Ozzie and Eddie’s own, flawed, understandings of each other and themselves and what personal love is supposed to feel/look like. While we, the audience, can see they are or have been mistaken when it comes to various assumptions.

Re: Jim - completely agree with your assessment. His rejection of Ozzie’s claims of torture and refusal to listen always made sense to me, callous as it seemed.

@sunlitroom said

I think, for me, this is one of this instances where you, as a viewer, are doing a ton of heavy lifting re: interpreting slipshod writing, and coming out with something way more intelligent and nuanced than the writers actually intended.

I think I can agree, to an extent, about Ed being shown to be wrong (he does wander into twatness frequently :D) He’s prone to hubris – and we see him falter here when he realises he was wrong about Oswald’s capacity for love and self-sacrifice. I still sort of feel, though, that we’re not asked to consider Ed’s knowledge of Oswald’s past as faulty (it’s never mentioned or nodded at here at all) – but rather that we’re supposed to think, and be taken aback, along with Ed - that Oswald has suddenly demonstrated the capacity for love for the first time.

Like - I think there’s a case to be made that he never considered/recognised his feelings for Jim as love, even a friendship kind, but instead rationalised their relationship as a business friendship/alliance? (tho ofc in truth emotionally it WAS much more than that to Ozzie)

I think, though, Oswald’s frustration in interactions with Jim was precisely because he felt Jim refused to acknowledge what Oswald felt was a deeper connection. He’s insistent on crossing the business line, much to Jim’s frequent discomfort. Then they gave us that daft line about love being no good when it’s one-sided, and that discontented little look, which was a tacit acknowledgment of Oswald’s feelings on that front.

(I hope you don’t mind me adding your tags because you stash half your argument in there, and then it disappears in the reblog, which seems a shame :))

#it occurs to me i’ve posted several things talking about ozzie sacrificing himself for ed as character development/growth#i guess i was seeing that more in terms of his understanding of romantic love specifically#which i was taking as something he only knew how to experience selfishly#because i don’t see him as recognising his feelings for jim as romantic#…or maybe even his love for eddie specifically#which i thought the show was going to keep as a selfish love#in any case - i can’t deny ozzie has loved deeply and selflessly before ed#and if i implied otherwise i was wrong about that - whoops and sorry!

I think this is probably something that will be very much YMMV - because I can see your idea is valid, but I came away with the opposite idea. I’d already seen Oswald experience what read as (so unsubtly it was almost not subtext) romantic attraction, deliberately take the fall for Jim with no deal in place to protect him, willingly offer to make sure Lee was safely out of the city, then ask her not to think badly of him - in short, demonstrate pretty much the opposite of what we saw him do with Ed and Isabella, where he was selfish and destructive.

And I think that’s why the pairing (as portrayed in the storyline, I have no issue with whatever shipping people do) made me so tetchy. I was simultaneously seeing something that looked nothing like what we had been shown Oswald was capable of in terms of love and generosity, but then I was asked to swallow it as not only romantic, but as evidence that Oswald could love. And I just felt not only was this the sort of repetitive storytelling that annoyed me with the Van Dahl stuff, but I just found it wilfully ignored so much previous characterisation and story.

And yes - re: Jim, I think s2 Jim can be summed up as ‘disappointing’. It’s definitely a nadir for him.

Tl;dr

Ed - can be a twat

s2 Jim - disappointing

Oswald - capable of love

@littlehollyleaf said

A very sweet way of saying I’m reading perhaps too much into things :p Fair point though - I’m used to analysing texts from a ‘Death of the Author’ perspective, so my grasp on authorial intent can be weak (and is also something I’m not generally interested in, which is why I try and avoid considering writer intent as much as possible… and always inevitably fail with WIP tv shows! see: much of our discussions about Isabella).

At the end of the day then - screw the writers, right? :p Ozzie is and always has been capable of selfless love and his relationship with Eddie and Eddie’s machinations didn’t reveal anything new on that front. Agree.

And I also agree, personally, that his crush on Jim was insanely obviously romantic - certainly I was reading it that way pretty much from the start! …however, as obvious as it might have seemed, his feelings for Jim were never explicitly shown/stated as romantic or even explicitly shown/stated as love, meaning there was, I think, a significant level of plausible deniability that meant his feelings COULD be, and probably WERE by a fair few viewers, read as non-romantic and not love (if either he or Jim were female that probably wouldn’t have been the case, but blah)… Ergo, while Ozzie’s relationship with Ed most certainly was NOT the first evidence given of Ozzie’s capacity/ability to love (both in general and romantically), it was at least the first time the show had provided explicit evidence of his capacity for romantic love, so… idk, that’s a thing maybe? …a good thing from a representation perspective, debatably, but, yeah, somewhat annoying in terms of characterisation, at least the way it was written, because, gah, yeah, the explicitness with Eddie is probably part of what makes Ozzie’s feelings for him come across as his first experience of romantic love period, and thus, like you say, suggests it was via his feelings for Ed he learnt HOW to love and that we were being shown he COULD love, ah, yes, that’s annoying… (perhaps if the show were to be more explicit about his feelings for Jim now it would help…?)

in any case, I’ve warmed to my own interpretation of Ozzie in himself not consciously recognising his feelings for Jim as romantic or even as love now though, so I might chew on it for a while :p Like, I don’t think it necessarily contradicts what you’re saying about him feeling he and Jim had a ‘deeper connection’ than just business, that he was subsequently upset Jim refused to acknowledge - you can argue it’s just that Ozzie didn’t understand that connection was love, let alone that it was a one-sided love. He just knew he cared for/about Jim and wanted to help him. So it’s like… when Ozzie was just feeling/experiencing romantic love, he was instinctively selfless (protecting Jim, helping Lee etc. with no real thought to having his feeling reciprocated), but then with Ed he actually LABELLED his emotion as romantic love and that made a difference to his behaviour… potentially… plus there’s a whole different dynamic with him and Ed where Ed initially sought Ozzie out and had a bit of a hero-worship thing going on and all the ways Ed presented himself as a substitute for Gertrude, which perhaps made it seem like Ed and Ed’s love SPECIFICALLY was Ozzie’s to claim, leading him to covet Ed’s love when it was denied him, in a way that doesn’t exist with Jim… and then we can factor in all Ozzie’s loss/trauma in-between his selfless loving of Jim and falling in love with Ed, which we can argue made him more inclined to be selfish and cling harder to the people he cared about for fear of losing them, hence why his manner of loving Ed was so different to how he loved Jim… (sorry I’m rambling now! this is just me thinking through ideas, not making any claims as to whether this was intended or comes across esp. in the show proper!).

(and sorry OP, this got rather involved! - we might have to take this discussion to a new post if we wanna keep going :p)

@littlehollyleaf - took your advice and started a new post :) Many apologies for taking so long to respond - buried under deadlines.

Ha! :D I do genuinely think your reading is better than the writers’ likely intentions.

I know what you mean, though, as regards taking a ‘Death of the Author’ approach, my background is Eng Lit, so I tend to do it too. Playing in the spaces and parsing motivation is fun. I think the thing is that I get grumpy if the writing moves from leaving fun gaps in the text, to huge whopping chasms – and then get distracted by fulminating over it.

Gracefully gliding past Gotham’s writing infelicities is the only way to keep watching. :)

I think Jim and Oswald are presented much more as the kind of subtext that anyone who liked, say, Clex, would be familiar with. There’s something there, but we’re never going to state it outright, nudge nudge, wink wink. It’s interesting – I was actually talking about this elsewhere, and we wondered whether that’s why Oswald’s interest in Jim is allowed to be much more sexual: because everything’s going to stay subtext, and therefore safe. Showing sexual interest when romantic intentions have been made explicit… not permitted, apparently. It’s going to be totally subjective, of course, whether you take that from a scene, but it’s something that struck me about this storyline.

I can see how that interpretation works – it’s just that one line that argues against it for me – what good is love if it’s one-sided? To be honest though - like you - there’s a lot I’ll have to chew over with this storyline until I can make it work for me. It’ll be interesting to see how they proceed in the next part of the season.

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fruzsinauhlarcap-blog · 7 years ago

Text

Beyond Polarity: A New Encounter between Women and Men by Elizabeth Debold

The essence of the masculine and feminine polarity, then, is attraction: opposites attract, so we say. Magnetic poles, electric current, the workings of the atom are all examples of the force of polarity. Breaking the bonds forged from the polarities between atomic particles creates a nuclear explosion. “Sexual attraction,” explains David Deida, “is based on sexual polarity, which is the force of passion that arcs between masculine and feminine poles.” Or as he continues, “you always attract your sexual reciprocal,” so that in sexual passion “you need a ravisher and a ravishee,” or what he sees as the masculine and the feminine. While Deida says that we can change our role as ravisher or ravishee every day if we choose, “most men and women also have a more masculine or more feminine core,” respectively. So, if the way that we tend to think about ourselves as women and men is that we possess relatively immutable interiors that are (or should be) feminine and masculine, then the undercurrent of communication will be this polarity of sexual attraction. Sexuality is the subtext.

This has serious implications for communication between women and men. In a chapter entitled “Women Are Not Liars,” Deida explains that, in emotional situations, women cannot be held accountable for the truth of what they say: “The ‘truth’ of the feminine is whatever she is really feeling, in this present moment.” (Italics in original.) Given that women are defined as emotional by nature, that is, according to the polarity in which rationality is masculine and emotionality is feminine, I would imagine that it’s difficult to know exactly where to draw the line in terms of when to take what a woman says seriously and when to just “listen to her as you would the ocean, or the wind in the leaves.” Deida gives men a helpful guideline to figure this out:

The basic rule is this: Don’t believe the literal content of what your woman says unless love is flowing deeply and fully in the moment when she says it. And even then, know that she is probably talking about her current feelings, not necessarily about the subject of whatever she is talking about. Never base your plans on what your woman says she wants to do, unless she is in the full flow of love when she says it. And then, expect her to change her mind at any time when her feelings change.

The gist is that a man should never trust what “his” woman says, because it is only true as long as she feels it. He advises men to listen deeply (hearing her words like the babbling of a brook?) and try to distinguish between her “shifting moods [which can be discounted] and her sensitive wisdom,” which he never explains. Throughout the book, Deida explains that women’s moodiness or bitchiness is usually a signal to the man that she needs to experience his presence and strength or, in other words, he should schtupp her immediately—on the kitchen table, on the floor, take her down wherever she was standing. This is called “f***ing her open to God.” Deida’s roots in the Pick Up Artist community are showing: the subtext is conquest, constant conquest even in the context of a committed relationship. Apparently, real communication between men and women is basically a process of reinterpreting verbiage as a desire for submission—because women don’t mean what they say anyway and what’s really going on is getting it on with each other.

Putting aside the “date rape” overtones of Deida’s advice to men, the most damaging part to me is the view that one cannot expect rationality or accountability from women. The identification of the feminine, or women, with feeling and the non-rational raises questions for me about communication between the sexes. In Deida’s assumption that women in intimate settings should not be taken at their word, the interpretation of what women actually mean is left to the man. The woman is left wordless. I don’t doubt that many women struggle to articulate their experience and desires in relationship, particularly if men choose, as Deida suggests, to engage with women who are their “complementary opposite.” If an older, mature man then selects a woman who is younger and less developed, then being a superior man, or at least a man who is superior to “his” woman, is fairly guaranteed. Admittedly, too, women’s historical role in the emotional give-and-take of care-taking and lack of engagement with intellectual life has had an impact on contemporary women’s sense of being female. At the same time, men’s historical absence from the domestic space of care has left many nearly tone-deaf to the music of emotional intimacy. But not expecting women to say what they mean and mean what they say places women outside the expectations for adult discourse. It turns women into children.

The laundry list of opposites that are contained in the supposed masculine-feminine polarity—reason vs. emotion, active vs. passive, agentic vs. receptive—have a dangerous subtext of adult vs. child. We expect children to be emotionally driven (and later to develop reasoning capacities), to be passive and directed by their parents and teachers, and to receive guidance so that they can develop into independent agents who direct their own lives. In Deida’s polarity, women stay as children, whose spunk and wildness (read: childlikeness) drive his “newly evolving man” wild.

This is nothing but retromodernism. Modernity divided society into the masculine public sphere and the feminine private sphere, each inhabited by “opposites.” The gulf between these two polar opposites was as unbridgeable as the superiority of the masculine over the feminine was undeniable. The effect was disrespect. Men could have sympathy and protective feelings for their womenfolk, but not the kind of respect one reserves for an equal. But likewise, men’s unavailability and cluelessness about the delicate nature of relationship led to women feeling emotionally superior to men. Polarity is not partnership. Opposites attract, yes, but in a context in which the dynamic of dominance and subordination sparks passion. In such a social space, the subtext is always sexual, and men and women come from, and end up on, different planets.

Ultimately, communication between women and men who are embodying this opposition ends up being merely superficial. Even though these are deep grooves in our culture and consciousness, this opposition is not an expression of the depth of who we are. Deeper than our personality, sexuality or cultural role is our shared humanity—the truth that the entire range of qualities and capacities that have been divided by gender are all aspects of our selves. From the unity of the being that we share, and each accountable for the complexity of making meaning from our experience, a new capacity for communication can become possible between men and women. No longer opposites, the creative work of embracing and integrating differences reveals a new potential for being human together.

#mp1 change

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