#it kinda feels like they created Damian to finish the Robin line ??

[kierancaz]

I’m feeling depressed so yk what I’m going to do ? Talk about Damian Wayne and hope it fixes me.

So like I made a post before talking a little bit about (mostly) Damian and Jon’s like features and relationship to Lizzie and what’s I’ve seen from screenshots and stuff from Wonder Woman 2023 but I wanna talk more about Damian specifically.

It’s kinda annoying that it seems like his feature of becoming Batman is sealed when they basically made a character who should be anyone BUT Batman.

Damian was created IN CANON (at least according to one of his backstories, idk if it’s canon in the current continuity tho or if they retconned it by now) to one day replace Bruce and to one day be the leader of the League of Assassins.

He literally has always had some sort of role he was destined to fill whether he wanted it or not. Some sort of role that he was being forced into not just by the narrative and the writers but by his literal parents (not really Bruce but yk).

Damian’s story should be similar to Dick’s. He should find himself outside of some preexisting mantle because he doesn’t have to be what other people tell him he is. He doesn’t have to follow on his father’s or his mother’s footsteps. He gets to be his own person, his own hero.

And yah I know in his Robin solo that was kinda his arc of finding himself away from his family and all that but in the end he still is Robin. He should have an arc (in many years after he’s done being Robin or something) where he goes off and becomes his own hero that’s not Batman just like what Nightwing did. And I think it would work and make sense also from like a relationship standpoint, Damian would be more likely to follow in Dicks footsteps than he would be to follow in Bruce’s.

Idk tho bc like, he’s probably just going to be Robin for forever now and he’s only going to be used as Batman in like future set comics or something but like ugh idk I just want him to make his own destiny and not be what everyone tells him he has to be.

[rmbunnie]

Some thoughts while reading through Grant Morrison's Batman and Robin 2009 (doing my best to be unbiased and also to not sound like the CinemaSins guy:)

Just finished issue 2. I don't know if the art is quite my thing but it is unique and interesting, I just find some of the textures unsettling. There's a weird kinda Meet the Robinson's retrofuturism thing going on? I don't get the toad, in general I find the original villains perplexing, there's a sense of humor going on there that i don't think resonates with me. Professor Pyg grosses me out as a character but he's effectively creepy and the bright coloring does a lot to support the very visceral grossness there is to his scenes. Dick approaching Batman as a performance is interesting and a good character move incorporating his past, although I'd argue Batman is already a performance to some extent considering the way Bruce intentionally creates a mythos/widespread perception of Batman as a symbol to build fear among criminals, so i'm not sure how unique this is to Dick beyond the link to his backstory.

Issue 3, they seem to really like stretching one sentence out over the whole page, which is a really memorable working well for the action scenes. The onomatopoeia made out of various materials like explosions and blood is interesting. The Professor Pyg disco sequence was... weird... which I guess it was meant to be? I don't think it was much of anything in particular for me, not scary, or funny, I get that it was meant to convey Pyg's insanity but I got that with the faces, a lot of the dialogue was more confusing than enhancing the issue for me. Sasha though, is in a scary spot. The pages with her getting left behind in the lab setup are HORRIBLE. Overall I feel like the tone is a nauseating type of unsettling, a very Killer Klowns From Outer Space kind of aesthetic going on. Jason just showed up and I am. not particularly enthused by that.

Up to issue 5. The "hood becoming a blindfold" line Dick says to Damian is pretty clever with the angle they're taking of Red Hood being... the way that he is. The aforementioned angle they're taking with him is odd, to me. This isn't news to anyone. The social media, the branding, the way he talks with/about Sasha ("The mask made her crazy??????") is bewildering. Regardless of whether it's good or bad characterization (which don't get me wrong I sure don't think it's good) I don't understand the choice to make Red Hood the character linked to this theming, there's really not any cohesion there with his earlier character expressly abandoning the (debatably) empty imagery Batman used in exchange for logoless pragmatism. All theatrics in previous appearances past a dramatic personality were for either the purpose of communicating with Bruce, who is dead here, or just sending a message to black mask or his colleagues, not the general public of Gotham. Regardless of whether or not it reads as lame it doesn't read as HIM, which is more of a sticking point to me. Also minor line but WHY did Dick call Sasha his girlfriend. Like it's not even that i'm offended or shocked genuinely why is that line that. If it's to characterize him as a more lighthearted Batman it wasn't particularly funny, but I get the feeling there's a good amount of humor that just isn't landing for me.

Issue 6. Casual Homophobia Damian is the first joke in this series that's been funny to me but MAN is it funny to me. Perhaps not in the intended way but it is kinda hitting!

Also still on issue 6 was Jason's response to Dick offering help meant to be genuinely emotional? The panelling and lack of action gives me the sense it might have been but if so it did not hit. If it was meant to be comedic/a dig it was slightly more effective but still overall confusing. I REALLY don't get who the "archenemy" is supposed to be. Sasha's ending was DEFINITELY meant to be emotional and maybe if i had less of a cynical mindset from the issue before it it may have been, but it just seemed weaker than the entirety of like, everything before that's happened with Sasha. Idk what's going on with this issue. It's funny that Judd Winick comes in a dozen issues later and completely retcons the Sasha thing. Also why is Talia's medical team here now. Talia isn't in this one???

Issue 8. I understand there is some kind of tie-in going on but what the FUCK is happening. army of batman replicas????? Why is everyone here british. (side note, Kate Kane says "hate to say i told you so" here and it's criminal that that hasn't been repurposed for a Good Luck, Babe! edit.) I was going to ask why Dick's so unconflicted-ly down to use a Lazarus Pit for Bruce but they address this by saying Jason's trickery has influenced him? Which 1. this take on Jason does not seem competent enough to do trickery and 2. when has Dick ever succumbed to Jason's trickery on Jason's best day? "I have to die, no, i'm serious, I have a plan" is unfortunately REALLY funny dialogue. Point 2 on the jokes, Grant Morrison.

Issue 9. "this is horrible... her radio's still sending out an SOS which nobody can hear way down in a coalmine...." Point 3 Grant Morrison. "Y do oll my thots turn 2 smashed glass wen i try 2 think?" this moment with pretty strong potential for horror is also featuring lolcat speak? I feel like this could have been avoided if we kept the oddly split up phonetic speech and didn't incorporate numbers but the "2"s really are giving this a uniquely Myspace tinge. Like the dialogue is really interesting here, but also How are you doing that with his mouth. "STEPPING IN GASOLINE WAS YOUR BIGGEST MISTAKE????" good lord Damian was born to be in the comments section. "your pickup lines need work" ???? i guess a kinda snappy one liner but that is Bruce's lesbian cousin WHY does Dick keep accusing his family of being in weird and concerning hetero relationships like this is a pattern now. "I have this thing for crimefighting readheads..." !!!! WHY'S DICK FLIRTING WITH KATE NOW LEAVE THAT LESBIAN ALONE????? she was a lesbian in 2006 too i really don't understand why we're doing this.

Issues 11 and 12. "permission to terminate." ok namedrop. They're doing talia really weird in this one. The way she speaks like an over-controlling soccer mom, the way she's drawn, it all just feels very odd. Again, not news. Dick confronting Slade about Bludhaven is a neat concept. WHY are they doing an "everybody on the count of three" hands thing. OH FUCK OFFFFFFFFFFFF THIS STUPIDASS JOKER REVEAL IS THE WORST THING SO FAR BY FAR

I like the Damian fight paneling in Issue 16. There's definitely a unique style to the writing. It has a pretty quirky tone.

WELL! That's that, I've now read the 2009 Batman and Robin run! I also read the Tomasi, Cornell, and Winick 3-parters, as well as the final issue, but I feel like those aren't really so much part of Morrison's continuous run. That was a comic, and now I know what happens in it! I will get around to reading Morrison's Animal Man run because I really do want to see what others seem to see in their writing and I love a good metafictional narrative so hopefully I'll get more out of that than i got out of this. I see the stylistic appeal, the brand of horror Morrison uses here is really unique, there's a very off-kilter and weird vibe to the whole thing, and many of their contributions to Batman lore such as Professor Pyg and Damian (I need to read Son of Batman sometime too, just because it's such an iconic Damian book) are very interesting! Having said that, I honestly don't know if I can say I enjoyed reading this series. I found large chunks of it deeply confusing, and not in the way that I didn't understand what was happening, and many of the elements that caught my attention such as the horror in Issues 2 and 3 didn't persist throughout the book. I'm glad I did tho! Also I maintain that that Joker reveal was HIGHLY bullshit (in the sense that i didn't like it.) I have to admit I clocked out a little emotionally after that.

[stxleslyds]

You always seem down on the idea of the Batfam. I mean, it is hard to take seriously when writers make Bruce hostile or downright abusive towards his kids, or when Batfam members never interact. But do you think the concept itself is good, and it's just been the victim of bad writing? Or do you think the Batfam is a bad idea that can never work?

Hi there Anon! Thank you for the ask!

Hmm, this is a difficult question. Maybe I can answer this better if I do it in parts because the concept of “Batfamily” is used in different ways currently. A way to separate them can be, DC’s Batfamily, Fandom’s Batfamily and Fandom’s Batfamily lore being introduced in comics’ canon.

DC’s Batfamily:

My rejection of this version of Batfamily comes from all angles, it is not a good concept within comics lore anymore, it’s badly written and used to hide and move on from truly horrendous actions done by Bruce towards the rest of the family, and DC uses the concept of “Batfamily” that fandom has become so attached to, so they can profit off of it without writing anything of real essence with it.

Why did I say that the Batfamily isn’t a good concept anymore? Well, because the Batfamily that I first came across in comics included, Bruce, Dick, Alfred, Barbara, Tim and Cassandra. It was rather small and their books interconnected and had pretty solid relationships with one another. Dick and Tim got along and spent time together, Barbara mentored Cass so she could become Batgirl and so on and so forth. The family was smaller and more connected. But they still had problems and bad habits then. So, I liked them as a group of people that worked together and the name they received was “Batfamily” as a way for DC to profit from it.

Right now, the Batfamily is huge, I don’t know if you have seen those splash pages with all the members of it for Rebirth and Infinite Frontier, but those promotional pages were crazy big, characters like Harley and Clownhunter are now considered part of the “Batfamily” and all that. Then there is the kind of characters like Cass, Steph and Kate who are all connected to Batman but that haven’t been appearing in books for very long, so putting them on that page really feels like DC is trying to prove that their “Batfamily” actually has women on it, but it’s just for show.

And then there is Dick, Jason, Tim and Damian, the most recognizable faces of the Batfamily aside from Bruce and Alfred (but Alfred is dead now so he doesn’t really count), all of them have had issues with Bruce or are indifferent to the existence of one another. Yes, Tom Taylor has included Tim in Dick’s book but here is the thing, it feels like he put him there just to make fans shut up about the lack of content with both of them acting as they used to do. But its false and lazy, Taylor just brought Tim to the book but we don’t get to see Tim and Dick interact in ways that can explain why they drifted off, it kinda seems like all those years where Dick and Tim were pulled apart never happened to DC and that makes me think “cash grab”. I would have loved to see them interact again if it meant that we would have some solid story for them to develop their relationship once more.

At the end of Rebirth, Damian was pissed off at Bruce and they had a fight and Damian left the manor completely. Bruce beat up Jason, then gave him a hug but still told him that he was banned from Gotham and all that abuse and manipulation was swept under the rug when DC came out with Urban Legends: Cheer, all they did with that story is lie and made-up stories about Jason wanting Bruce to go on a killing spree so Gotham can finally be the home to his beloved family (lies, lies, lies).

On top of all that we have the neglect, abuse and manipulation that Bruce had going on with Dick, ever since Bruce manipulated Dick into joining Spyral his actions haven’t faced any consequences (the family still believes that Dick was the one who lied about dying). And as recently as the end of Rebirth, Dick suffered from a head injury that left him amnesiac and Bruce absolutely didn’t care enough to look after him when he was so vulnerable and alone. DC had the audacity of having Bruce say that he was looking after Dick while Dick went from one villain manipulating and hurting him to another, and if we look at Batman’s run, we can see that he spent some of that time in a weird pit or playing catch the pussy with Selina in a tropical island.

So, taking all those things into account, I honestly believe that the Batfamily is a concept that absolutely does not belong in comics. If it were to be taken seriously then DC should come up with (organic, not forced) stories that make these characters connect once again, but they have to be careful, just because they can connect it doesn’t mean that everyone gets along and they have group chats and eat dinner together of Fridays, that would be a blatant lie and just too out there for their kind of dynamic, so, they should take things slow, start re-building what once was an make it better (if they want to make it work and feel like less of a cash grab).

I heard that there is a book with Cass and Steph being mentored as Batgirls by Barbara coming out in December, that to me is a good thing, what was done in Robin #5 was awful, Jason didn’t have or want to be there, Tim, what the hell was Tim doing there? The only ones that have gotten along with Damian and have had a solid relationship with him were Dick and Steph. Dick had a very nice moment with Damian in that issue, but Steph didn’t, they preferred to have Jason wanting to hug Damian instead (what the actual hell was that?).

Fandom’s Batfamily:

Fandom is a place where people can take any concept from anywhere and transform it into whatever they please. This fandom is just like any other in that matter, but I have noticed that sometimes the Batfamily Fandom tends to blur the lines between what’s fanon and canon. Their lore is so deep and established among people that they sometimes (willingly or not) make new readers or other people believe that how things and perceived in fandom is how things actually are in comics, and that is a huge problem.

Things like “Dick sent Jason to Arkham when the Joker was just a cell away”, “Jason has pit madness and when he gets mad his eyes turn glowy green”, “Dick was a horrendous brother to Jason before Jason died”, “Jason would be good friends with Tim and Cass”, “Jason is the only one that sees the world differently from Bruce and the other robins because he is the only one that comes from a life with no luxury” and so on and on and on…

All of those things are sometimes treated as the absolute truth by fandom and no matter how many times people have debunked and explained that those things aren’t part of comics’ canon because they are simply not true, fandom stills treats those things as the basis of their Batfamily lore.

That lore would be actually fascinating if people didn’t lose sight so easily of the fact that at the end of the day none of that lore can be applied to comics’ canon.

When you enter this fandom things can be extremely confusing and the way some of the characters are characterized are completely different to their canon characterizations, I knew that the Dick fandom was writing about was not real, but I had no idea that Tim being a coffee addict that hasn’t slept in five months and is an absolute genius in everything and anything that he does was completely out of character for him, I just thought that was true to his character in comics too. Something like that happened to me when I took a peek at Jason’s side of fandom, by that time I had read Red Hood/Arsenal, UtRH and New 52 RHatO (yeah in that order, Red Hood/Arsenal wasn’t finished yet though), with the already conflicting characterizations of those books, the first look that I had at fandom’s Jason confused me even more. After considering all those I decided that the Jason that I wanted to see and actually looked appealing to me was UtRH Jason.

Not all people in fandom read comics and that is ABSOLUTELY VALID, I have zero problems with people not liking the comic characterizations of the “Batfamily” characters, but that in itself also creates a rift between fans themselves.

Fandom’s Batfamily lore being introduced in comics’ canon:

This is obviously the intersection of the other two points and this is the biggest problem that I have with the Batfamily concept. The fandom lore has been leaking into comic’s canon for a while now but right now we are kinda drowning in it. Decisions that have been made recently in DC like, Jason giving up his guns, the group chats in Nightwing issues, the family dinners that were hinted at in Cheer #6, and Bruce having had at the ready a Red Hood suit for Jason with a Batman logo in its chest, have been proof enough that DC is planning on skipping any kind of solid writing for these characters to actually get along. We are never going to see these people sit down and talk about their differences and respect each other’s work ethics.

We are never going to get stories of actual essence that prove that these characters understand and care for each other, we are just going to be told that “all is good” and now everyone loves one another and they will build from there.

That is a problem for me.

-

And it also takes away duality from Gotham’s vigilantes, I know I say this too much but it’s the truth, putting all these characters under the ruling of Batman makes them all bland. Jason shouldn’t be part of any sort of group that involves Bruce! My god, I don’t want to see them interact anymore! Bruce has been absolute trash to Jason ever since he came back from the dead and I am tired of DC trying to make them be on good terms!

Jason and Bruce not getting along can co-exist with the fact that Jason isn’t a villain to Batman’s legendary hero. Jason is his own character, with his own morals and he doesn’t need a bat symbol on his chest or book logo to be relevant. Same with Dick, Tim and Barbara, let them be characters that can stand on their own because they have already done that!

Barbara as Oracle worked WITH Batman if she wanted, she had her own logo and had passed on the mantle of Batgirl because he had grown out of it.

Dick is Nightwing and has become an even better hero than Batman could even aspire to become, he has contacts with everyone in the DC universe, has led countless teams, he doesn’t NEED a batman logo on his book or to be constantly dragged back to him just to make the Bat more compelling.

Jason, my sweet Jason, he had his own logo! It was gorgeous and then Lobdell had the audacity to stamp a Batman logo in the middle of the book name and in Jason’s chest! Have we gone absolutely mad? Why did they do that? Lobdell’s constant back and forth with Jason and his feelings for Bruce, he respects him and he doesn’t, he kills and he doesn’t… each issue felt like a new take on the character! It was crazy!

And that has happened with everyone in the “family”. I will end this by saying that Bruce/Batman being at the centre of this “Batfamily” dynamic is the most laughable thing in the DC Universe. Batman isn’t family to any of the people that they constantly surround him with, he is a piece of shit.

Anyway Anon, I hope this answer doesn’t ruin your day and that you understand that even though I really don’t like the “Batfamily” concept, you and everyone else are allowed and encouraged to think differently!

Hope you have a marvellous day Anon!

[oh-mother-of-darkness]

asks (21)

Anonymous said: Hi! Do you still like Tim Drake?

More than I can describe!

Anonymous said: Please tell me those law school quotes are all from one professor

They are not, but MOST of them are from the civ pro professor. His name is Counseller, and he’s great. He got a standing ovation after his speech at my friend’s graduation yesterday. I once went to dinner at his house and a movie afterwards. He had us all hide his candy in our bags so he didn’t have to pay concession stand prices. 

@whambamthanksbatfam​ said: Do you know canonical nicknames for the Batboys?

Hold up lemme see what I have on file

Off the top of my head I can also think of times that Tim referred to himself as “Timmy” (usually while pretty young), and of course Dick has “boy wonder”

Anonymous said: What do you think will happen to nightwing comics? Writer changes in April, will they be able to reverse the amnesia arc? Do you think maybe the damage to the character is irreversible? I don't understand why they'd allow it especially after what happened when they tried to kill him off. It's also 35th anniversary of his first appearance in a few months. Looking at teen titans, jon kent's age, young justice "coming back" I feel concerned for dc comics' future ):

I’m basically taking my usual approach, which is (as far as comics are concerned)... everything will return to its most profitable form. Comics have a set form. With a few key exceptions-- changes in superhero persona, for example-- things generally make their way back to the “classic” form. Therefore I expect Dick to go back to being Nightwing, in a form we would recognize as typically Nightwing. 

Anonymous said: wait..... waitwaitwaitwait..... wait. did u just swear in that hashtag? i have followed you for like 2 years and the closest i've seen to swearing is "sweet texas on high" which ended up becoming a bad habit of mine to say irl and then have to explain where the hell i heard that, and then i said it enough that one friend started saying it as well, then it just spread like a virus in my friend group (this isn't a complaint this is just surprise and amusement. love ur blog!)

Glad to see my nonsense swears are spreading! To be honest, I (really) swear a lot. Don’t tell my mom

Anonymous said: Hey! I have to choose a quote for my yearbook and i want to do a batman/superhero quote but i cant think of one and was wondering if you could help me out? Im looking to go for kinda funny but also has a bit of meaning, ya know? Anyway thank you!

Oooooh boy lemme see

I like Alfred’s quote in these panels. I would also maybe suggest:

"Whenever someone's asked what power they wish they had, flying is always at the top of the list. But I have to admit. I've learned to love falling too." (Nightwing #142, 2008)

I don’t know how helpful I can be on this one, honestly, but there’s my two cents.

night-mom said: Hi, I have a bat-centric side blog called Bat-Losers-Inc. I just discovered some of your writing on tumblr and have been slowly going through it when I have the time. I really love how you write each character of the Batfam and how each of them feels very distinct from each other but also different from their common representations in the Batman fandom. So anyway, I was wondering if you had a favorite Bat family member to write from in terms of point of view/personality?

Hmmmm a couple of years ago, I would have said Jason. For whatever reason, I’ve always given him a talking/fighting style that’s the most similar to my own, but lately I find myself drawn to Tim and Damian. My guess? Their points of view allow me to explore some things I’ve been going through-- specifically a nasty bout of depression, anxiety, and a psychotic breakdown. I would also say that Dick is the hardest for me to write, followed by Bruce, Duke, and Cass. Stephanie is pretty easy. 

Anonymous said: For some reason, I have this huge need of some angst... Could u please do a prompt of suicide Tim? But he manages to success?? Please???

Listen. I’m definitely not going to do that, and I don’t think I need to explain why. 

Anonymous said: I reread some old B&R comics. Bruce came back from his weird time adventures and one of the first things he said to Damian was, that it was his job as Robin to make sure that Batman gets home safe. Like yeah, I guess it is? But also you're talking to your 10 year old son, I'm waiting for that mentality to bite you in the ass at some point. I mean it kind of did when Damian died to save Dick in Batman Inc. Bruce's parenting is really dangerous sometimes o_o

I agree. I’ve always had a problem anytime the Batman/Robin relationship is framed around what Bruce needs. For the benefit of the child? Sure, I’ll suspend belief for that one. Because an adult needs it? No thanks. That’s why Tim’s origin story bothers me a whooooole lot.

@therusticate said: I just read the fanfic you put out around Christmas with the files on Dick and Damien and I MELTED. There were TEARS! I’m hoping to find some more of your work on your blog; I love your writing style and how everything flows. Thank you so much for creating content! You did a fantastic job and I love it.

Oh, thank you so much! I’m particularly fond of that fic

Anonymous said: how's outlining going?

Anonymous said: what is it that you are outlining??

Anonymous said: I hope your outline turns out good and you do well ❤ you can do it!!

@couldnt-pick-a-name said: Have you finished your outlining yet?

Anonymous said: Good luck on your exams!! I hope they go well and you take care of yourself and don't get too stressed

I appreciate you all for keeping me on topic <3

Exams went... probably pretty well? We’ll find out when grades come back. I was outlining for immigration law, federal administrative law, and constitutional law-- and I did get all of them done. Hallelujah. 

Anonymous said: Young Justice 2019 just got published and I realized I haven't consumed enough YJ material!! Do you have any comic recommends??

Oooooh I guess that depends on which Young Justice you’re talking about? Original v. based on TV show? Either way, my recommendation is to look up the associated series. Original YJ (Tim, Bart, Cassie, Conner, etc.) is the 2000 version by Peter David. That team just got a reboot, and I’m reasonably sure that’s what you’re asking about. Then there’s the YJ comic based on the tv show (2011, I believe).

Either way, I like pretty much the entire series. Sounds simple, but that’s my rec. 

@dontstopkiwibea said: I've been thinking about your fic with Damien and Tim having a conversation about Tim's depression and the time when Bruce was missing. I think about all that missing time a lot and how so much /could/ have happened to Tim but didn't. And then I think about Damien being sad when Tim was dead. And then I think about Dick hearing about Tim's mental state during that time, how bad it really got, and maybe Bruce learns too. Ahhhh I don't know about you but I want more fics about Tim and getting help

Honestly? Same. I feel like there’s a lot of emotion that’s never officially explored, and that’s a problem I personally enjoy fixing. 

Anonymous said: You asked for headcanons, so: Damian likes to give Tim a hard time, and one day Damian scoffs at the idea of Tim getting a pet, saying he’d probably kill it through neglect. Tim doesn’t appreciate that and ends up with a goldfish out of spite. He learns everything there is to know, and his fish is gonna thrive, dammit. And it does. Tim comes to genuinely care for this little creature (and secretly Damian is really pleased Tim is showing such interest in something that isn’t casework or WE).

Love it! Give Tim A Fish 2019

Anonymous said: What are you most looking forward to this year?

Hmmmmm... this is maybe a lil over optimistic, but I’m really looking forward to getting better this year. I’m trying harder and I have better resources than I ever had before. 

@xylophonicsynapse said: Which of the bat-kids makes music playlists?

I’d say that all of them DO it sometimes, but the one who really gets into it is Damian. He likes his music organized, thank you very much.

Anonymous said: Hey Amy! Saw the ask about the line "The sun is UP and so is JESUS we are partying today." and I thought it was hilarious I MUST know where its from! Plz and thank you <3

Lmaoooo that was from a post on Easter