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henrysglock · 10 months ago

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Local Man Uses The Cyclical 27-Year Torment Nexus To Try And Change His Fate [EPIC FAIL COMPILATION]

You probably guessed that this is the time-travel post I've been slaving over. You'd be right. This is the newest and most formal iteration of my long-standing time loop theory (I have drafted flowcharts back from February that actually predicted a dimension/time fuckery event in 1943 in relation to Brenner, which was made canon by TFS). So...Let's just dive right in. Note: I'm planning to keep calling TFS Henry "Henry" here just for simplicity's sake.

Now, fair warning: There are a few big "bear with me"s in this post. I promise they make sense, I just need you to hear me out.

It all started with Henry's self-proclaimed superhero name: The Stardust Spider.

Some of you may have seen my original post about The Rise and Fall of Ziggy Stardust and The Spiders from Mars (here).

Before anyone says "Oh, but that album didn't exist yet", a reference in 1959 about a Bowie album that wouldn't be recorded until November of 1971 is in keeping with TFS's habit of directly referencing things from the '70s that "don't exist yet".

However, all that aside, there's a specific piece I want to return to, because it bugs the living daylights out of me.

There was a cut song that was meant to go on the album The Rise and Fall of Ziggy Stardust and The Spiders from Mars titled "Shadow Man":

For obvious reasons in relation to Henry in The First Shadow, this song already stuck out.

Specifically, though, these few stanzas hit me weirdly:

You should call and see who answers For he promises to come running Guided by the truth For the Shadow Man is really You Look in his eyes and see your reflection Look to the stars and see his eyes He'll show you tomorrow, he'll show you the sorrows Of what you did today You can call him foe, you can call him friend You should call and see who answers (see who answers) For he knows your eyes are drawn to the road ahead And the Shadow man is waiting 'round the bend ('round the bend) Shadow man is waiting up ahead

The Shadow Man is you from the future. He's waiting up ahead to show you the the truth/the consequences of your actions.

Considering that the TFS version of Young "Henry" has a direct connection to both the Shadow and Dimension X from a young age, and he also experiences what seem to be Vecna-type visions, this becomes particularly interesting to me...Especially seeing as said fates are not only possible for future "Henry", but also canon for future "Henry". (See: Vecna guy vs Mindflayer guy)

So, when I see an almost comical number of lines in TFS relating to rewriting known, undesirable endings (here are a few of my favorites):

And when we revisit some of the on-film classics:

I start to think it's time we revisit the concept of time-travel and trying to change your own fate.

It's always hard to know where to start with posts like these, so I'm going to kick things off with the technical aspect: The Cycle.

Something I've talked about in the past year, mostly on Discord, is this concept of a time loop. Not just any old time loop, though. A 27 year cycle, specifically.

Not 20, not 30...

Now, we all know the TFS timeline is messy as hell and doesn't actually align with anything that's possible in filmed canon...or within its own time span, even.

For example, the attack on Mr. Newby happens both some point after October 1st, 1959 and before November 20th, 1959...but the papers for the incident report it on March 20th, 1958:

The timeline we're given also largely fabricated, as I pointed out in relation to the newspapers with dates that don't actually exist.

However, much like NINA, the sequence itself being fake doesn't mean the events didn't happen. It's just not happening in the time frame we're told it's happening in:

It's a set of real events, just portrayed on a different time scale.

So, with all that in mind, I want to lay out a timeline, starting from Season 4 and moving backwards in time:

— Vecna opens the rifts, and El opens a gate to Dimension X in NINA, both in 1986. The March 1959 Creel Murders occur exactly 27 years before the Rifts and NINA's Dimension X gate open in 1986...at which point the Mindflayer is shown to be active.

— Mothergate opens through to Dimension X at some point between November 1983 and October 1984, this being somewhere between 16-28 months prior the Rifts opening. The paper about the attack on Mr. Newby, dated March 20th, 1958, is released exactly 610 days, or 20 months, prior to the Creel murders on November 20th, 1959. It's not necessarily the exact dates that are important here (again, these dates are relatively unreliable), but the gap between the dates.

When put in accordance with filmed dates (i.e. setting the release of this paper exactly 610 days prior to March 22nd of 1959), the paper for the attack on Mr. Newby would have been released on July 20th, 1957. This would be in line with Edward Creel's move to Hawkins in the spring of 1957...while also occurring 27 years before July of 1984, at which point Mothergate is open, and the Mindflayer is active.

This July date is especially funny to me considering we get "throwaway" lines like this...with shots in filmed canon from summertime:

Top: Joyce and Jim beginning their investigation into the attic attack. Hopper Sr. is questioning why Joyce and Jim are investigating, rather than attending school. Bottom: Alice and Henry with the rabbit death scenes in filmed canon, the setting showing full foliage and both children in summer clothing. "Is it summer break?" I don't know. You tell me, Chief.

Per TFS, Henry went missing in a cave system near his home town of Rachel, Nevada (hold that thought) at some point in the year prior to the attack on Mr. Newby. We've been told that Dimension X was involved in this event in Nevada, something happened there that left "Henry" altered physically. He was also flayed at some point around this time.

This all coincides with Henry's dramatic mood shift from a "normal and good" boy to one suffering from Mindflayer-induced psychosis. This change happened in tandem with the Nevada incident, dating back 10 months prior to the attack on Mr. Newby:

If we set Henry's initial disappearance in line with filmed canon like before, it becomes September of 1956, which is just over 27 years before Will's disappearance in November of 1983, at which point we know at least one gate is open.

We also have 1952, at which point TFS Henry would be 7 per his age as a 14 year old/freshman in play canon. This exists in a 27 year interval against 1979, when El opens the original gate that sends One to Dimension X, where he subsequently shapes the Shadow into the Mindflayer.

Here comes the first "hear me out".

My questions are:

Since Henry/Vecna/The Mindflayer/etc. in general don't show any capability for opening gates before 1986, then how the hell is the Mindflayer possessing anyone in 1959?

How did "Henry" get involved with Dimension X in Nevada in the 1950s?

Unless, by some chance:

Dimension X exists all the time simultaneously (i.e. it's a space outside time)

The gates exist simultaneously across time and space in the Right Side Up in 27 year intervals. By which I mean: A gate that opens in, say, 1983 would exist simultaneously in 1956, so on an so forth.

There's the disappearance of Captain Brenner and the USS Eldridge in 1943, which would, interestingly enough, align with 1970, the supposed year of El's conception.

Then, 1952. Now, I'm not sure what's special about 1952, when TFS "Henry" was 7, because they don't actually say what happened to make that year important! They make a point to show it to us, though, meaning something happened...we just don't know what. All I can say is that 1952 does exist in a 27 year interval against El's 1979 gate. Hold that thought.

Those addressed, let's fast-forward 4 years: 1956/1983.

Now, to be fair, there is some uncertainty in my mind about whether this specific gate incident stems from Brenner's involvement with Project Rainbow in Nevada pre-1957*, or if it stems from Mothergate in 1983, or if they created some kind of wormhole between the two locations 27 years apart...but that's a concept I need to explore more thoroughly in a another post.

In short, though: Did a singular El open a singular Mothergate? Did El open mothergate? Did Mothergate actually open on November 6th, 1983...or are we just supposed to assume it opened the same night Will went missing/the demogorgon came through? We're never given a concrete date for when Mothergate actually opened.

* In TFS, Brenner claims he's dedicated his life post-1943 to Project Rainbow with the goal of finding Dimension X, and that he's doing so in pursuit of knowledge regarding the circumstances of his father's death in connection with the Philadelphia Experiment. The USS Eldridge, Brenner Sr.'s ship, disappeared into Dimension X briefly on October 28th, 1943. "Brenner Sr." was the sole survivor. "He" returned to the Right Side Up with a completely unique blood type, supposedly altered by his travels into Dimension X. This is what ultimately led to him succumbing to his injuries, due to his body rejecting all forms of blood transfusion. Brenner Jr. tells us that about 10 months prior to Henry's first stay in HNL, a scientist from Project Rainbow escaped Brenner's lab carrying a container of a dangerous material, and ended up near the same Nevada cave system Henry disappeared into. We don't know how or when this material was collected, or what it was, but we know they found Henry's Captain Midnight spyglass next to a body (identity unspecified) with no trace of that dangerous material. We get no further detail about the Nevada Disappearance.

Anyway, someone opens a gate in the fall of 1956 and/or 1983 (my money's on it being directly linked to an El in 1983 either way). No matter who did it, though, someone opened a gate at both time points, showing us this 27 year link between the 2 dates, 2 key locations.

"Henry" goes missing in Nevada in 1956, and ends up involved with Dimension X...Which aligns with the choice of song surrounding this version of the Creel family while they move into their new home:

Coincidentally, 27 years in the future, so does Will, in Indiana. Their experiences are linked across those two spaces via that 27 year period.

We know that regardless of the gate in Nevada...Mothergate, at least, stays open until from fall 1956/1983 to fall 1957/1984. That covers exact time frame that the adjusted dates for both Henry's accident with the boy in Nevada and his accident with Mr. Newby fall in (as well as Will's time between his disappearance and his flaying).

The closer we get to Will's flaying in 1984, and the closer the Mindflayer gets to crossing through Mothergate, the more TFS Henry sounds like One (post-1979) while he's possessed in 1957, the more strangely he behaves in general (almost as though the Mindflayer is more enmeshed in his everyday life/closer to the surface), and the stronger the possession attempts seem to become overall. He begins giving nightmare visions to other people, namely tormenting Virginia with spiders and her past. He has his final and most powerful "Vecna" vision on the night of the attack on Mr. Newby.

Any kind of reciprocal gate irt Mothergate in the '50s would have gone unnoticed, since the papers in TFS indicate that HNL wasn't established until Brenner showed up to take Henry in.

Mothergate closes briefly, only for a gate to open in July 1958/1985 in the underground location of the future Starcourt Mall. This, in 1958, is during our unaccounted-for 20 months between the attack on Mr. Newby and the Creel murders. (Something rattles about this and the scene where Henry nearly makes full contact with the Mindflayer, when he has a handful of duplicate lines re: his 4.07 monologue self, but I don't have sufficient evidence to make that claim with any certainty.)

That gate closes, until Vecna opens gates in Hawkins in March of 1986, and El opens a Dimension X gate briefly and simultaneously in both Hawkins/Nevada in September of 1979 (September of 1952) and Hawkins/Nevada in March of 1986 (March of 1959) during NINA, concurrently...at least one of which may have gone unnoticed, since the Rainbow Room and the surrounding labs seems to have been abandoned entirely after 1979, and HNL as a whole has once again been abandoned after the events of 1984 ("unnoticed" and "abandoned", I say as if the building isn't still being surveilled by Brenner/Owens et. al...I just mean that the building isn't in use by the government at that point in time.)

We're shown the Shadow activating all the way in Russia due to one or multiple of these events. 27 years earlier, in March of 1959, the Mindflayer once again becomes active, per TFS's adjusted dates. Chaos ensues.

At this point, "Henry" starts swapping between sounding like his young self and sounding like his 4.07 Monologuing Adult self again, doing that kind of "I've seen the future" foreshadowing talk with Joyce that his visions did with him:

Here, he also sounds distinctly like ST3 flayed Billy, specifically in the way of the scene with El in the cabin when "Billy" outlines the Mindflayer's plans for her, her friends, and all of Hawkins while crying.

The rest is, well...history. Whatever fuckery went on, it doesn't seem to have made much of a difference. After all, TFS is a "canon event", meaning it had to end the way it did.

Remember those thoughts I asked you to hold?

TFS being a "canon event" means it had to end with Henry in the lab alongside baby El...thus completing our loop, which starts again with the events of 1979/1952. A 27 year loop. TFS may be indicative of a time loop.

Hence:

Out of place dates from the 1970s start to bleed into the 1950s: - A town like Rachel, Nevada, which wasn't established until 1978, now exists circa 1952-1959 after El opens a gate to Dimension X circa 1979 in Nevada circa 1986 via NINA, which exists...about 40-50 miles from Rachel.

- An album like Ziggy Stardust and the Spiders From Mars (November, 1971) or a song like "Chuck E's In Love" (April, 1979) gets referenced circa 1957-1959. - An article about a "younger, more handsome" alien clone of Elvis appears in a 1959 Weekly Watcher paper about the Creel murders, despite Elvis having been 24 at the time...making this an article more likely to have appeared in the '70s or later, likely sometime around Elvis' death in 1977.

2. The Shadow is always depicted as the fully formed Mindflayer circa 1956-1959, despite the shaping event happening in the 4 years between 1979-1983:

3. Henry has Vecna-type visions, despite being the only vision-giver we know of circa 1957-1959.

4. 6 different guys later in the HNL massacre: 2 with the original baby El, 2 with teen El via NINA, and 2 in an as-of-yet unseen product of NINA's Loop (see: the final scene of TFS).

All this laid out, some questions remain:

Why do Henry's visions show him the genuine, terrifying reality of his future?

Why are these visions generally lacking in coercion?

Why are Vecna chime sounds heard before the major supernatural events that deal with visions, even though we never actually see the clock? (They're heard before Virginia in the attic, before the attack on Mr. Newby, before the Creel murders, and in the basement when Henry monologues at Joyce while viewing the corpses of his family.)

Why don't these chimes play when the Mindflayer alone is present, e.g. when no visions occur? (See: Henry contacting the Mindflayer in the lab)

And we don't really get an answer to any of these. Not an easily spotted outright answer, anyway.

But what's really fascinating, which I mentioned just a second ago and takes me back to the top of this post, back to the "Stardust Spider" and Shadow Man, is the fact that despite occurring concurrently with the possession attempts...none of these visions contain an ultimatum. There's no "If you don't obey me, I'll hurt someone you love", no "I'm showing you what's going to happen if you don't obey me", nothing of the sort.

The closest we get to coercion is the bathroom vision, when Henry fights off a possession attempt in the school bathroom and ends up in a vision regarding Patty. When "Patty" starts to talk to him about his future, about how Henry's going to kill her and so many others, Henry says "you're not Patty...what are you?" Then he gets into a physical brawl with her, which is surprisingly well matched. Vision Patty encourages him during that fight, saying things like "That's it!", "We want the same thing!", and "We can have her!"

Those seem like pretty straightforward "the Mindflayer's encouraging Henry to kill" encouragements, right?

Yeah, at first glance. However...lets read that back right quick, but with Moral Objectivity Goggles on this time. Henry openly, verbally identifies that Vision Patty is "not her, not Patty", but is, in fact, something else. He does this multiple times before he lunges at "not Patty", and he is subsequently encouraged by not-Patty...who tells him they want the same thing. That's not suspicious at all. The motives here are definitely crystal clear and totally aren't conflicting in any way.

There's the straightforward surface aspect, and then something else piggybacking on it, complicating it. Hold that thought.

Other than that instance, the negative parts of Henry's visions are all just...information. They're showing him what will come to pass...almost like they're motivating him to fight the Mindflayer. Hold onto that thought too, it buddies with the previous one.

Henry's freaking out about Prancer because he's getting close with Patty, and he's worried he'll hurt her?

His vision informs him that he's going to kill more, that he's going to hurt things, that he's going to kill Patty if he stays around her and/or gives into the Mindflayer's desires. And then it happens. All of it. He kills more animals. He hurts things and people, the pets and lab animals, Mr. Newby, and Inmate 58361 being prime examples. He gives in to the Mindflayer's desire to kill and kills Virginia. He does, by the extent of his perception, kill Patty in the accident.

The same goes for his vision in the attic. Henry's up in the attic using his powers to find someone/snoop on them, fearful of opening himself up for a possession attempt?

The vision version of Patty's mother catches Henry and tells him she "wants to tell him a secret" while his body is being puppeted to attack Mr. Newby. The next time the curtain rises to show us the inside of Henry's mind, he's seeing himself as Vecna, strung up on the tentacles and strangling people with them...just like the end of Season 4. Once again, he's seeing the future that will come to pass...should he fail to fight the Mindflayer off.

We can tell it's a vision, not what's physically happening in reality, because: a) Henry's watching himself in the attic from the stage below. b) It's got the messed up red lighting c) They show us reality just moments before, not a tentacle in sight and without Henry on the stage there observing:

d) The ending of the vision doesn't match with reality:

At the end of this vision, Henry passes out both in the void and IRL, while the vision version of Henry remains crouching. That is a different guy, entirely separate from IRL/Void Henry. There is at least one other person in the visions who is not a product of the vision itself.

Remember those thoughts from a bit ago that I asked you to hold?

Well. This also happens to be the sequence where we not only get Vision-Patty repeating Henry's own words from just after Prancer's death ("It's not real. It's not real. It's a nightmare") back to him, a phrase IRL Patty has never heard, but we also get:

Visions Patty telling Henry how to fight and evade the possession, as if she knows what she's doing ("It's your dream, remember? Anything is possible").

Vision Patty telling Henry she loves him as the last-ditch effort when his "good dream" memory of the real Patty fails to save him from the possession.

These are both things IRL Patty wouldn't know or think to say, since IRL Patty fully believed that Henry attacked her of his own volition out of malice, and she needed to be shown a drawing of the Mindflayer by Mr. Newby in order to abandon that belief.

IRL Patty's behavior is not the behavior of someone who a) knows the ins and outs of Henry's situation with the Mindflayer, and b) coached him through overcoming a possession attempt a little while earlier. It's just not.

Just like before, we're seeing contradictions and complications between vision-selves and IRL selves, along with a sense of piggybacking within possession attempts, wherein the vision serves as motivation for Henry to fight harder in resistance to the Mindflayer...while the Mindflayer is possessing him.

It's starting to become my favorite thing in the world: A pattern of behavior.

In summary:

Henry's are visions are visions of his future, and they're being shown to him by someone.

They are separate from, but piggybacking on, the Mindflayer's possession attempts.

The purpose of the visions isn't solely to torment Henry or coerce him into doing the Mindflayer's bidding. In fact, the content of the visions seems curated to make Henry fight harder in resistance to the Mindflayer.

So if, for example, Vision Patty ≠ IRL Patty, but she's acting against the Mindflayer's best interest/in support of Henry...then...

I think my answer to the questions of "who", "when", and "how" should be at least somewhat clear by this point:

Someone...from the future.

Specifically, someone from 1979-1986 who has access to the gates from the Dimension X side, someone with both vision-giving and time-related abilities who's directly connected to the Mindflayer/the Hive Mind, but who has a vested interest in countering the Mindflayer, saving Henry Creel, and trying to change the course of the future.

A traitor. A spy, if you will.

"A spy...from the future?"

[gestures at the Signs] Yeah, you heard me.

A spy from the future.

So, on that note: The point in this section wherein I ask you to hear me out.

I get the feeling TFS Henry is being told and/or shown what will come to pass in the future by himself...the Mindflayer.

And you're probably going "How do you figure that one, James? Isn't the Mindflayer a villainous force?"

I mean, yeah. Of course it is. However...

There are clearly multiple forces at play within the Mindflayer (hive mind!), and TFS shows us that Henry Creel wouldn't choose to be a villain.

Thus I think the visions in TFS are situations where, as in the 4.07 rabbit scene, things look really damning on first view. They play on our empathy using small, visibly-frightened, helpless victims and shocking, violent circumstances to guide us into making the assumption that everything about the situation is inherently malicious.

We're shown this poor little guy, "Henry". He's 14 years old, he clocks in at 5'5", he's skittish/scared of (ha) his own shadow, and he's geeky to the nth degree about comic books (just LOOK at that Captain Midnight salute? What an cute little nerd). He's immediately lovable. He's also, we find out rather abruptly, plagued by horrific visions and murderous fits of possession.

The immediate response is to go "He's being psionically tortured by some sick, sadistic son of a bitch who hungers for nothing but blood and control", just like Nancy and the ST fandom collectively did with Young Henry's rabbit scene...only to be proven wrong about Henry's intentions via TFS.

I mean, does anyone (anyone who's able to read this post, anyway 🤭) look at TFS Henry, filmed Young Henry, or even Orderly Henry and go "Yeah. He totally wanted what he got, and if he had the chance, he definitely wouldn't try to save himself from that fate"?

No.

TFS Shows us that "Henry" was a terrified, traumatized boy who wanted it all to stop. He's kind, brave, and stronger than he seems. We're also shown that he's capable of overcoming the Mindflayer to issue warnings to people he cared about (i.e. telling people to run, or prophesying dangers he'd seen via the visions). He was trying to survive with next to no help while causing as little harm as possible. He was a good kid, and he certainly wasn't evil.

So, all that said...I think that, via the Shadow's hive-mind capabilities, Henry's "fronting", in a manner of speaking, in order to show this version of himself the future. Probably as a warning, probably as motivation to fight the Mindflayer, and all with a nice side-dish of "here's how you fight this thing off so that my current future doesn't become our future" before someone else tapes over the figurative laptop camera.

[coughs, drops this Brenner-Mindflayer collage on the table in front of you, and then scurries away]

With that said, I'd like to loop all the way back to the top of this post: The "Shadow Man" may be Henry from the future. He's waiting up ahead to show his younger self the true outcome of his choices.

We all know how TFS ends, though. Hence:

[EPIC FAIL COMPILATION]

This brings me to my final "bear with me" point: The matter of the strange double-agent vibes from the UD in every season.

I'm not sure if anyone else outside the unholycule has noticed this, but in every season there's at least one instance of the UD just...offering up information.

"It does?"

Yup! Let me explain.

On first glance, we look at things like Nancy's vision and even El's vision with Billy in the cabin, and we go "Oh, it's because [insert "the bad guy's cruel/he wants to scare her/his hubris will be his downfall/all serial killers want to be known for their crimes" etc here]"...but maybe that's not the case.

For example: Vecna told Nancy his backstory, and then he immediately went

"Oh hey, so not only am I revealing my identity (Which may help you find out more about me via lab records later on, things like...maybe a list of my abilities, or my weaknesses, like the fact that I have a nut allegry. Allegedly.), but I'm also gonna give you a sneak peek of my apocalypse plans. For free. As a treat. Don't use these to prepare or anything. I'm totally not giving you a head start".

Terrifying, yes. A taunt and a threat on surface view, yes...but also showing his hand. "I want you to tell Eleven everything you see" Why. Why would he want that. He may be confident in his plans, arrogant, even...but he's not that stupid.

I'm serious, though. Check it out in comparison to Henrys visions of the future. The pattern is patterning:

We can track that back to El's cabin scene with Billy, wherein he tells her she shouldn't have looked for him, warns her that they all can see her, and that they're going to be coming after her...and he cries about it. That's vision Billy. That's someone else who piggybacked into El's mind from Billy's mind. That's not real Billy, just like how Billy in Max's vision wasn't the real Billy. The person giving El that vision warns her. Why on earth would he tell her that they can see her, that they're coming for her? That's sensitive information! It would be smarter to let her think she's safe and use that false sense of security to catch her off guard.

In fact, this pattern patterns so well that I'd like to argue this: Henry's TFS visions, Nancy's vision, and El's vision are all the same type of behavior displayed in NINA's chess scene, just in different contexts.

Henry ("Henry") gives some kind of scary prophetic information ("He and the others are going to attempt to kill you", "I would very much like to show you where I am going", "You're going to kill me, aren't you?"), and then we're left to question if it's a scare tactic, manipulative misinformation, or helpful inside information.

It's not that the Mindflayer or Vecna can't hide things from people (see: "Somewhere he didn't want me to see")...like, say, the fact that the Mindflayer is now able to see El, or that Vecna's planning to open 4 gates with his 4 kills.

It's always this miraculous "Huh! Weird info-dropping behavior from the UD's side. Shouldn't look that gift-horse in the mouth though. It's probably just a writing oversight or a shoehorned exposé, so really there's no need to question it." situation where it's just...information that's offered up with no real explanation.

Some of my favorite examples:

...and it's all topped off with Max's line:

"He's been telling us his plan this whole time".

That is to say...You're telling me:

The first message from the Upside Down isn't any of the messages that are concretely Will's, but instead it's the one that's a repetitive Henry line...and it's conveyed in a distinctly not-Will style? A message that saves Joyce, something that's definitely not in the UD's best interest given her tenacity in finding her boy...but is definitely coming from the UD nonetheless?

Will, who fell total prey to the Mindflayer in less than 3 days, was not only able to figure out how to defeat the Mindflayer, but was also strong enough to convey it in Morse code? The Mindflayer, who is able to keep secrets (see below), just...let that information slip?

El, who acknowledges that the Mindflayer is more than able to hide things from her, is suddenly released into Billy's memories and allowed to find the source unimpeded?

The Mindflayer, as Billy (Remember: not actually Billy, because Billy can't give visions or invade minds), is telling El that because he's able to see her now, she shouldn't have looked for him? The Mindflayer, which was supposedly building the Fleshflayer to track El down and kill her? Suddenly he's telling her she shouldn't have done the thing that allowed him to find her more easily?

Vecna's giving up all the information about himself and his plans before he's even gotten the 4th gate open, despite him being so secretive about it up until that point?

Henry's visions in TFS are going to scare him into resisting the Mindflayer, making it less likely that he's going to upgrade to killing humans, i.e. the very thing the Mindflayer wants him to do?

None of that makes any damn sense...until we hit this last point:

Orderly Henry is known for giving inside information about "Papa" to El with no clear motive other than getting her to leave the lab.

Now, if you know my page then you know Em's been talking about double meanings in phrasing recently (see: this post about "who"s and "what"s).

So, with that in mind, I'd like you to chew on this:

"He's been telling us his plan this whole time." vs "He's been telling us His plan this whole time."

By which I mean: "He's been telling us some other man's plan this whole time."

[Mike voice] Superspy.

As a parting thought, I made it all into a nice, neat set of collages:

Not to mention this final, parting bit:

#henry creel #time loop theory #st: tfs

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kerubimcrepin · 11 months ago

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Liveblog 2: Still trying to finish episode 1.

Crocosec is a butcher, Tortue sells weapons next to him, and Kanigroo is a florist.

Julie's hair salon is right across from Kerubim's boutique.

INSTANT love. Their friendship is so important.

Is this a random observation of details, as is this blog's entire premise? No. But I am going to add this to the post nevertheless.

Solomonk, btw. The kanji here is "金", which means gold/metal in Japanese and Chinese.

Keke's yarn ball addiction that will be referenced in a future episode. Yet, he also knits using them, as shown in a few places in canon, so not all hope is lost. I am not screenshotting all of them.

I love these two so much... You can probably tell by my two 10k word fanfics that have tags like "fluff", "child neglect", "psychological horror", and "Joris should hunt Kerubim for sport (positive)"

You will notice that this is a theme with this series, but Joris grows to have a bit more mature of s view on Kerubim, realizing that his father is a very unreliable narrator, and a flawed person.

While Dofus Livre 1: Julith has some writing issues (Bakara should have been sadder and Khan should be on-screen less often), it wraps this arc neatly, by completely taking Kerubim off that pedestal in Joris's mind.

As well as destroying the notion of pedestals for Joris in general, ruining his life, and making him very disillusioned. But we'll talk about The Horrors when we get there.

There are other horrors to talk about, after all:

Simone is this close to calling the twelvian analogue of CPS. And she should have. I am going to hunt Kerubim Crepin for sport.

The stairs are a tripping hazard and there's a knife just randomly laying there. Very normal parenting.

Then there's the horrifying bookcase that is going to fall someday and kill everyone.

There's a lot to unpack here in general, but I demonstrated 3 ways I think Joris could accidentally kill himself in this household at the ripe age of 7. Especially the with murdershelf.

Btw have I said that he has lived in these conditions for his whole life. I think we don't talk about that enough. I will hunt Kerubim Crepin for sport.

He's literally so mean. This man has bewitched me soul and mind. If he said this to me, I would die on the spot from embarrassment.

The way he's trying not to die of laughter or make fun of this guy is actually insane.

There's not enough words in the english, french, or other languages to describe how shit of a parent Kerubim is btw. why the fuck is there meat there. Then there's the random fish skeleton. Then the random rotten apple and another piece of meat with an AXE in it. And using a monster as a disposal device.

I am going to hunt him for sport, have I mentioned that?

Here's a confirmation that even though it's never mentioned, Incarnam does exist in the TV series Dofus and Wakfu.

Kerubim's half of the sleeping room is notably more run down...

I will be real Kerubim's depression nest is actually so sad. Being mentally ill doesn't excuse bad parenting, but yeah. Just... a horrible familial situation all around.

Bonus Screenshots: Joris looking like a bug. + Simone's lesbian stare of hatred towards Bob from Bonta.

#ro liveblogs dofus #dofus #wakfu #krosmoz #kerubim crepin #joris jurgen #because I said enough about them for this to be tag-worthy #ep1

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lynn-tged-posting · 2 months ago

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tged webtoon ep 160 spoilers and thoughts that i am a tad bit late on (sorry abt that) below the cut

bugs when you lift a rock

I REALLY REALLY LIKED THIS EP IT WAS SUPER COOL AND THE BALANCE BETWEEN THE GAGS AND THE COOL PANELS WAS GREAT

i fucking love . javier being smug so so much THIS WAS SO FUCKING FUNNY HAHAAHAHHAA bud knows his worth fr he really looks like an angel

they're so stupid /aff what's wrong with them

AND RAPHAEL'S WEAPON REVEAL. HOLY FUCKING SHIT.

I LOVE LOVE LOVE GIGANTIC WEAPONRY. IT'S MY FAVORITE THING EVER WHEN WEAPONS OF CHOICE ARE ABSURDLY HUGE AND THIS REALLY REALLY WINS THAT. ALSO I AM TERRIFIED FOR THEM BECAUSE OH MY GOD THIS LOOKS SCARY but also it having a very normal Office Product Name is HILARIOUS LOL yes the multipurpose business hammer. for business. it's big but don't worry about it .

we also have a date for when the great war in the mythical age occurred! i haven't quite started a whole Lorasia Timeline thing yet but thisll be useful for future reference i think

plus plus, the way the jewel of truth tells the truth,,, is by bypassing the heavenly realms rules and accessing something beyond that. it could be related to the system that lloyd is using? or when javier became a grandmaster how his mana changed to something beyond the laws of causality , or whatever that was. might be related!!!

THE PRAYER GAG WAS FUNNY BUT ALSO MADE MY HEART ACHE BECAUSE- LIKE OKAY THE "also i want to live life selfishly and freely in retirement" IS SO REAL OF HIM BUT ALSO

i really truly believe that this second panel is how he really truly feels. living like a bum aside, lloyd has always put others first, he's always protected other people before himself. lloyd also tends to always try and take things into his own hands, taking the reins and pulling things into his control, so that he can achieve this unknowingly noble goal of protecting those close to him.

it makes the fact that the moment he heard about making a prayer he does it IMMEDIATELY, so so so heartache to me; maybe i'm overanalyzing/overthinking these things, but as someone who doesn't quite believe in higher power and also as someone with a lot of easily-hurtable pride:

do you realize what it takes to fall to your knees, to beg and to pray to be heard, to be at the mercy of someone else, for something you want?

that HURTS a LOT. seeing lloyd immediately bow his head and pray like this. he's desperate not to lose it all - he can't, not when the goal is so close - and fighting the angel really isnt smth they should do at all bc people would get hurt. and so he's on his knees for someone else to grant that privilege of building this jewel of truth... it could be my perspective / feelings influencing how i perceive this ofc, maybe it's really not that deep, but it Hurt me and i felt the need to explain why LMFAO

anyway, me inflicting psychic damage on myself aside, JAVIER VS RAPHAEL!!! THEIR WHOLE FIGHT IS SO SO COOL AND JAVIER LOOKS FUCKING INSANE /POS

the sheer power of their collisions/parrying sending REVERBERATIONS LIKE THAT is so fucking CRAZY javier has grown so so strong and the fact that he's sparring w an ANGEL is so fucking COOL GOD THIS IS SO COOL

AND THE CLOSEUPS ON JAVIERS FACE TOO THEY MAKE ME INSANE LIKE WHAT THE SHIT HE'S SO FUCKING COOL

LIKE NO FUCKING WONDER HE WAS THE MAIN CHARACTER OF TKOBAI HE LOOKS AND ACTS THE PART SO SO WELL HE'S SO MAIN CHARACTER SHAKES HIM AROUND HE'S SO COOL

poor lloyd tho the sounds of the fight fucking him up bc of the swordmaster syndrome RIP though it does look like he's handling it better than before!

there's still a lot of push and blur bc of the overwhelming sounds but it feels less chaotic and messy than the panels from last ep, like it looks more controlled i think? like the lineart looks much more stable here, so it seems like the meditation/training helped!!!

ALSO ALSO SOLITAS YAYAYAYAYAYY ITS MY BOY MY FAVORITE SIDE CHAR the mid-transformation panels are so so cool!!! so many awesome things this week heehee

AND VERKIS YAYYY YAYAYAYAYY honestly yeah it tracks that the three biggest powers on lorasia fighting at all would just. fuck up the world good thing he stopped solitas,,, even if solitas doesnt know who he is HAHAHA LMFAOOO "... who are you?" HAHAHA

OH AND BACK TO THE FIGHT RAPHAEL'S HALO THAT'S SUCH A COOL MECHANIC

that's so cool that the halo can be used defensively like this!!! and it stands just fine after one of javier's strikes too that's so crazy

it makes a lot of design sense too w the way he's dressed, and also with the sheer SIZE of his weapon; you'd think that he'd have like, armor or something if he was going somewhere expecting a fight, but all he's wearing is a nice clean white suit. but that's cause the halo does all the defense work for him!!! and with the weapon too like, if you need to suddenly defend but you're in the middle of an attack and unable to shift your momentum, the halo's got you covered! it'd be hellish trying to stop your trajectory with the swing of a hammer THAT large, it looks like its made of straight up metal/steel, so when you swing you HAVE to follow through. u wouldn't be able to really defend with it

im just saying all the same stuff at this point but GOD THIS IS COOL AND CLEAN HALO MECHANICS I LIKE IT A LOT

the effects in general are just SOOOO awesome in this episode im really happy about that heehee, the artist rlly popped off!!

AND FINALLY,,, LLOYD PREPARES TO SING,,,

THE FUCKING DEMON SHAPE IN THE SHADOW BEHIND HIM OH MY GODDD HAHAHAAA

see like. i'm genuinely wondering whether or not this'll work or if it'll like, cancel out like PEMDAS, cause like raphael would be considered a holy creature, right? and lloyd's singing is considered demonic, and so those two powers are opposites, so would it be like neutralized overall?? like would raphael just lose his power, or maybe lose control of his halo, or would he actually take damage from his singing?

sorry that's really silly HAHA but i thought it'd be funny to think about, im really excited to see where this fight goes!!!! i really hope we get more cool moments this is so sick i'm so excited!!!!

okay okay thats it hehe see y'all next week (as in later this week lmfao)

#tged #the greatest estate developer #tged spoilers #lloyd frontera #javier asrahan #raphael #solitas #verkis #lynn misc #i've been like a tad bit occupied with a bunch of stuff irl which is why this took so long to post very sorry #though its mostly for my own thought archiving / entertainment so idk why im apologizing #idk but either way its finally written yay!!!

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fbfh · 2 years ago

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lesson learned (maybe) - billy hargrove x reader x steve harrington smut

word count: 4.1k

genre: SMUT FILTH LEMONIEST LEMON

pairing: billy and steve x reader (afab/fem terminology/she her but minimal pronoun usage)

summary: When you inadvertantly cop an attitude, Billy and Steve decide to fuck a little respect into you.

warnings: dom billy, softer dom steve, manhandling, multiple daddys, reader is called a brat, spanking, billy's rings, strenth kink (if that exists), vaginal fingering, anal fingering, dumbification, some babying/infantalization, sexy condescending, petnames (princess, angel, honey bunny, pooh bear, good girl, love bug, doll face, sugar lips, toots, ), steve's chest hair <3, billy's necklace <3, "don't look at him, look at me, face grabbing, prolonged eye contact, hair/top of head petting (in a condesending way not a long silky tresses way), sexy punishments, mentions of orgasm denial/edging/overstimulation, hearing smwn get undressed behind you, mostly clothed sex, head down ass up position, praise, reader has fuck me eyes, coochie spreading, hair pulling, mouth fucking/m recieving oral, cervix kissing, spitroasting, double penetration, face fucking, breeding (it's billy ofc there's breeding), attention kink????, clit play/rubbing, checking on your partner during intense sex, surprise (but still fully consetual) anal, some feral billy, cum as lube, emotional intimacy, steve has sensitive hair, choking/neck grabbing for a hot second, nipple/boob play, groping, neck kisses and hickeys, a lot of dirty talk, multiple orgasms, aftercare, kisses and cuddles, sleeping sammiched between two hot buff men (the dream), implications of future bratty reader

music rec: masochist - palaye royale (I didn't have a specific song I was listening to while writing this it was just a lot of underground krnb and the same two pop punk groups but I feel like this fits pretty well)

a/n: holy fucking shit this got off the rails so fast I think it might actualy be worse than daddy sorry

use my discount code opneedstherapy for 10% off holy water lol

ALSO HAPPY STRANGER THINGS 4 V1!!!!!!! I hope this doesn't wreck all of us like I know it will lmao

tags: @yesv01 @hopefullhearts @littlewinter1917 @thatawkwardlittlefangirl @Sad-brunnettee @justbookworm

AS WITH ALL NSFW WORKS ALL CHARACTERS ARE AGED UP TO 18+!!!!! Also everything that happens in this fic is totally consentual and bc it's fiction it doesn't follow all the real life rules and ettiquete so make sure irl you're communicating with your partners and taking care of each other <3

You think you’ve come to know Billy and Steve pretty well in the time you’ve spent together, and right now, just by the look on his face, you can tell things with Billy are about to get really intense.

“Did you just give me attitude?”

“What?” you ask, meeting his intense gaze, heart beating faster at his words. Billy’s voice is dangerous, causing you to freeze in your tracks. “No, I-” “Cause that sounded like attitude.” He concludes, voice almost too calm, too quiet. He’s watching you, waiting for your next move. You take too long, you suppose, because before you know it, Billy’s throwing you over his shoulder and storming straight to the bedroom.

“Billy!” you protest, fighting a flustered giggle.

“You wanna act like a brat?” he asks rhetorically, starting to set you down, eyes burning into yours, “I’ll show you what happens to brats who give their daddies attitude.” After that moment of intense, lingering eye contact, he sits on the edge of the bed, and bends you over his lap.

“Billy-” your protest wilts in your throat as he lands a smack to your ass, sending burning heat straight to your core. It’s a warning to behave, and one that you listen to.

“You wanna try that again?” he asks, voice low and dangerous. Your silence is deafening. You stop squirming against him, and he accepts that as you submitting to him, finally listening to your daddy like a good girl should.

“Good,” he states, seeming more calm than before now that you’re listening to him. “Now count.” He orders, that stern, dominant edge right back in his voice. You feel him flip up your skirt and pull down your panties, laying another harsh smack to your ass. The feeling of his big hands and cold rings against your bare, warm flesh sends heat and sticky arousal pooling against your exposed slit. You whimper, embarrassed at how fast he has you wrapped around his finger. His other hand presses between your shoulder blades, holding you firmly in place. He’s so jacked it’s not like he can’t manhandle you when he wants to.

“I said,” he repeats, hand still on your ass, fingers beginning to rub at your dripping, puffy cunt, “count.”

“C’mon, don’t be so mean, Billy,” you look up - as much as you’re able to in your current position - at Steve, who’s just entered the room. Relief washes over you. Steve’s presence has always been able to soften some of Billy’s rougher edges, and you can always count on him to play the good cop. Before you can let out your sigh of relief, Steve crouches down to your level, looking at you with that sweet, saccharine look of his.

“Dumb little baby can’t even count, can you, princess?”

His voice is cloying and condescending as he grabs your cheeks, squishing them with one hand, and makes you shake your head no.

“That’s what I thought.” he states, patting your cheek, and standing up to address Billy. “See? Not fair.”

You stare at the carpet where he stands for a moment, before he walks back toward the bed. If Steve isn’t going easy on you, you’re going to be in for a really, really long night. This thought, paired with his words and condescending tone has you dripping all over Billy’s fingers, something you’re sure he won’t let you live down.

You assume Steve had some kind of exchange with Billy, because a moment later, Billy picks you up, and sets you down, kneeling on the foot of the bed. Steve is reclining in front of you, splayed out and bulging in his pants. The first few buttons of his shirt are undone, and you can see his chest hair poking through on the exposed skin not covered by his tank top. He curls his fingers, motioning for you to crawl towards him, and you do without a thought. “Princess,” he starts, “what you did was real disrespectful, real naughty,” he amends, dumbing down his choice of words. “Do you understand?” he asks, waiting for your response. You nod.

“Apologize to Billy.” he says, nodding over in his direction. You turn back to Billy, also rock hard in his pants. His button up is almost entirely open, and aside from the necklace resting on his collar bones, his chest is bare. You look up at him, his eyes smoldering into yours, and turn away. You can feel him watching you, expectant, and you look back up at him.

“Sorry Billy,” you say quietly.

He sighs, looking away for a second, then right back at you with that same intense eye contact. “...Sorry for what.”

It should be a question, but it’s a statement, an order. You blanch, mind going blank. You turn back to Steve, but before you can, Billy grabs your face, making you look back at him.

“Don’t look at him.” he warns, keeping your attention where he wants it, “What are you sorry for?”

“Billy…” Steve sighs, unsaid words hanging in the air. Don’t be so hard on you, you’re too dumb to understand what’s going on. They share a glare, and you only see Billy’s half of the silent conversation. Finally, he looks back down at you. He seems slightly softer than before, but still just as intense. He crouches down to your eye level, voice low and deliberate.

“I’m going to ask one more time, sugar lips. What are you sorry for?”

You blink, brain short circuiting as you try desperately to scramble for an answer. God, you swear it’s on the tip of your tongue. A few moments pass with you giving him an adorable blank look, struggling for an answer. He looks like he’s about to give up when you manage to choke something out.

“Being disrespectful?” you ask, watching his reaction closely. He smirks, holding back a chuckle.

“For being disrespectful.” Billy repeats, seeming satisfied with your answer. He leans down, pressing a hot kiss to your lips, then nodding his head for you to go back to Steve. You turn to him, and he pats the bed. You start to crawl over, and as you turn around, Billy places another affectionate smack on your still exposed ass. You can feel yourself dripping, and he smirks at the sticky arousal left on his hand.

Once you get closer to Steve, he has you lay between his legs. Your face is dangerously close to his bulge as he begins to pet your hair.

“Wow, disrespectful,” he says, voice both loving and cloyingly patronizing, “that’s a big girl word, isn’t it?” you nod, and he smiles, agreeing, “Yeah. Can you spell disrespectful?” he asks slowly.

“Uh…” you start, thoughts foggy from all the attention and coddling they’ve been giving you. Before you can try, Steve continues.

“I didn’t think so.” he states, “That’s okay, though, good girls don’t need to be good at spelling, not when they listen to their daddies.”

His voice instantly makes you feel more relaxed, and he continues to pat your head absentmindedly. He has another silent conversation with Billy, but this time, you only see Steve’s side. He rolls his eyes before turning his attention back to you.

“That was a good sorry you said to Billy, good job, angel.”

He smiles, and you start to relax. You’re just starting to think you got away with avoiding one of Billy’s insane punishments - usually involving a lot of orgasm denial, edging, and overstimulation, and will go on for hours until you can’t even remember your own name. Right then, Steve’s hand moves from your hair to your face, guiding you to look up at him. You hear the unmistakable noise of Billy undoing his belt behind you, and beginning to take off his pants.

“Unfortunately, you did misbehave, so we’re still going to have to punish you.”

Your pupils dilate and you feel the weight of the bed shift behind you as Billy moves closer. He grabs your hips, hoisting them up and back to him so you’re bent over ass up, groping your squishy flesh with his big strong hands, as Steve simultaneously thrusts his hips up to slide down his jeans and boxers enough to pull out his cock. It hangs in front of you, red and dripping precum, and your mouth waters at the sight. Steve grabs your face with one hand, squishing your cheeks, and holding his throbbing cock in the other.

“Open up, honey bunny…” he tantalizes, letting out a long sigh as you sink your soft, warm, beautiful mouth over his cock. He lets out a low moan.

“Oh, there’s a good girl, good girl, pooh bear…” His cock is massive, already pulsing and dripping delicious precum down your throat. The familiar feeling, taste, weight of his cock in your mouth drags you even deeper into the hazy warmth of their embrace. Right as you’re starting to get comfortable groping and sucking of Steve’s cock, right when his hands have found their place in your hair and his head is tilted back, eyes angled down to watch you suck him off with that loving smile at the corners of his mouth, right when you bat your pretty little doe eyes that just scream fuck me daddy up at him, Billy plunges two of his long, thick fingers deep inside your dripping, burning heat, spreading you open.

You let out a choked moan at the sensation of Billy’s fingers keeping your dripping heat on full display, causing Steve’s cock to twitch inside you. He tugs on your hair to keep you focused. You look back up at Steve, trying to keep your attention on working your mouth around his cock, hungry for more praise from his pretty lips. Behind you, Billy curls his fingers against your sensitive walls, waking you up from the inside. He lets out a long, low whistle, admiring you all spread out for him.

“Fucking dripping…” he muses, and you can practically see the smirk on his face from his tone alone.

“‘Course she is,” Steve interjects, agreeing, “look at her.” He watches you suckle his cock, eyes half lidded, drool and precum pooling at the corners of your mouth. Billy continues, voice low as he works his fingers deeper inside you, rubbing at your bumpy walls

“Tell daddy how much you love his fingers, princess…”

You try, gurgling around Steve’s cock, and he lets out a sharp moan, gripping your hair even harder. Billy chuckles, and Steve glares at him in a warning. Billy continues, chuckling as he stretches you out in preparation for you to take his massive cock. His fingers reach so deep inside you, touching places you never could have imagined before knowing him. He scissors your spongy walls with his thick fingers, his hands so strong that even your tightness provides little resistance against him. Steve sighs, still gripping your hair as he slowly starts to buck his hips in and out of your mouth, helping you along as you bob your head.

“Just like that,” Steve moans, gazing down at you, “good girl, pooh bear…”

“God your tight little cunt dripping for me, dollface,” Billy states, yet again landing a smack on your ass. He chuckles as you flutter around him.

“You like when Stevie praises you like that?” Billy asks, scissoring your walls, once again deeply stretching you in preparation for your cock. You gurgle around Steve, who bucks his hips at the sensation.

“Oh, you just love this, don’t you princess?” Steve asks rhetorically, as Billy suddenly, finally plunges his cock into your dripping cunt. Your eyes roll back in your head as Billy works his thick, pulsing cock closer and closer to your cervix. He lets out a growling moan, panting and adjusting to how tight you are, how perfectly you squeeze and rub his cock.

“Look at you, all pretty and full of cock,” Steve coos. You barely process what he said, that deep satisfaction of really being full still settling over you. Billy has one hand pressing down on your back, the other grabbing your hip and holding it close to him as he starts fucking into you at a brutal pace, while Steve holds your head nice and steady, doing the same thing from the front.

“You like that, sugar lips? Like it when daddy wrecks you with his cock?” Billy growls behind you, hand pressing against your stomach. The extra pressure and friction, paired with the feeling of the bulge he’s making in your tummy has you squeezing around him.

“Good job, princess… keep going, just like that…” Steve moans, voice breathy.

“Fuckin’ made for taking our cocks.” Billy agrees.

“Such a good girl for your daddies, angel.”

“Pretty thing like you just loves being bent over and bred, don’t you, dollface?”

All the attention, their continued torrent of filthy thoughts, and their cocks continuing to pound into you mercilessly from both ends has you squeezing and drooling around them. The erratic rhythm of their thrusts, sometimes in sync sometimes not, brings you drastically closer than before. Billy’s hand moves from his bulge pounding in and out of your tummy further down, and his fingers, still damp with your earlier arousal, begin playing with your clit.

The added stimulation has you gurgling around Steve’s cock, yet again. Billy feels you tighten up around him, and he knows you’re close. He gives Steve a look, then bends over you, leaning closer to your ear. You can feel the cool metal of his necklace graze your back with every thrust.

“You gonna cum for daddy, sugar?” Billy asks, and you can tell by the pace of his thrusts, the growl in his voice, the way he almost laughs at the end that all this is really riling him up.

“Oh, is baby gonna make a big mess all over Billy’s cock?” Steve coos, punctuating with a particularly hard thrust into your mouth.

Before you can even moan, you’re cumming hard. You clamp down around Billy’s cock, holding him in place while his hand carries you through your high, the other groping your hip. Your legs shake, and you moan, gurgling around Steve’s cock. They shower you in more praise and filthy sentiments, but it falls on deaf ears as you’re so blinded by your euphoria you lose your senses for a minute. Once you start to come back down to earth, you feel Steve scratch your head, and you glance up at him, eyes glassy.

“Still with us, love bug?” he asks. You nod, and you continue sucking on his cock, causing him to let out a hiss of air. “Good,” he concludes, proud of how well you’re trained, how fast you can bounce back, “cause we still have a lot to do tonight, don’t we, Billy?”

He agrees, and he’s soon back to the brutal pace he’d set before, this time amplified by the sensitivity from your orgasm. A little voice in the back of your mind is starting to wonder where the whole punishment part will come in. As intense and amazing as this is, you know it’s not what Steve, much less Billy, would qualify as a punishment.

As all that is brewing in the back of your mind, you can feel Billy’s cool rings on your skin as he gathers up some of your sticky cum dripping out of your hole. Your eyes widen as he spreads your cheeks, and begins to rub it further up. Heat rushes to your face as he edges you, cock continuing to plunge in and out of you lower down. Behind you, you hear his voice, breathy and gravely and more turned on than you’ve ever heard it.

“Gotta make sure you’re all stretched out everywhere, sugar lips,” he moans, rubbing against your puckered hole. He teases you, edging the sensitive flesh before popping his finger in, and lets out an unhinged laugh.

“F-fuck, Harrington. You were right, she’s even tighter now…” Billy says with a moan.

“What did I tell you? If we- shit,” Steve cuts himself off as you mouth him more intensely in response to Billy fingering your ass while he fucks you. You moan around Steve, and Billy growls behind you. He picks up his pace, rubbing against your walls, fingering your honey even deeper into your previously untouched hole. He can feel his finger rubbing against his cock through the squishy wall barely separating them. You’re whining at his touch, rutting your hips back against his cock, as Steve thrusts steadily into your mouth.

“Aww, does our slutty little baby like being stuffed full in every hole?” he purrs. Before you can consider trying to answer, he thrusts into your mouth, harder and faster than before. Billy works another finger into your previously untouched hole, both tightening around him at the entrance. His free hand slaps your ass, then returns to press into your back to stop you from squirming so much.

“You like that, sugar lips?” Billy pants, smirking behind you. In front of you, Steve’s thrusts grow sloppy, and he pulls at your hair.

“F-fuck, shit!” Steve hisses, pulling you closer to his hips as he finally spills his load down your throat. He tastes divine, and you work your tired jaw, swallowing as much of him as you can. He lets out a loud moan, throwing his head back and bucking into your soft mouth. His thick seed spills out of the corners of your mouth, and once he catches his breath, he finally pulls out of your mouth with a wet pop. He gazes at you with that loving look, a smirk at the corners of his lips.

“You really are something special, you know that?”

A strand of your spit mixed with his cum connects your lips to the head of his cock for a moment as you look up at him, tongue lolled out and panting. You’re truly a sight to behold. Caressing the side of your face, he swipes off some of the cum from the corner of our mouth, holding up his hand and letting it drip for Billy to see. He humps into you harder, working his fingers deep into your ass, and lets out a groan at the sight of Steve’s cum and your spit dripping from his finger.

“Shit! Playing dirty, Harrington…” he moans with a laugh. Billy pulls out of you suddenly, moving to the side and pulling your face towards his cock. You open automatically, and he smiles at how well trained you are. You take his throbbing length into your mouth, tasting yourself on his skin. After just a few pumps, he’s grabbing your face, pulling you closer to his hips as he blows his load down your throat. You swallow up his thick, creamy seed while his eyes burn into yours, watching every move you make. He pants, gaze unwavering.

“...Such a good girl for me,” he says slowly, smirking down at you. Your eyes flutter shut, and you lean into his touch, his hands caressing your face, while Steve’s find their way to your hair again. Reluctantly, Billy pulls away, finally standing up and stretching. His muscles glisten, a thin sheen of sweat over his tan skin. Once again, he hoists you up effortlessly, and you let out a very cute noise of surprise.

“Up you go, doll face,” he says, wrapping your legs up high on his torso. Steve groans behind you, presumably stretching too, then you feel him press up against your back, pushing you closer to Billy and folding you in half. One of Billy’s hands rests on your ass, holding you up, and Steve’s arm snakes around to your chest, fondling your tits.

“Alright,” Steve says, “now that she’s all stretched out…” You feel the heads of their cocks kiss your entrances. Billy smirks, his gaze smoldering and voice low.

“It’s time for your punishment, sugar lips.”

They both push their huge cocks into your tight holes.

You’re overwhelmed by the sensation, already so sensitive from your previous orgasm, that the feeling of both their cocks fucking into you at once like this has your head spinning in the best way possible. Before you can dwell on that for too long, Steve begins nibbling on your ear and sucking a hickey into your neck, causing you to moan.

“G-god,” you breathe, both your walls already tightening around them, as you try not to cum already. If you came undone this fast they would never let you hear the end of it.

“Right here, toots,” Billy says, hand on your jaw, guiding you to look at him. His eyes burn into yours, and he smirks at the fucked out look on your face. Your stomach is pressed up against Billy’s abs, and you can feel the bulge of his cock, amplified by Steve’s cock fighting for space inside you. They press and rub against each other, throbbing against your warm, grippy walls. They soon settle into a rhythm that has you whining and squirming fruitlessly against their muscular bodies.

“Good girl, good girl, baby,” Steve murmurs, as Billy continues to hold your eye contact. Desperate for something to hold onto, you reach back, pulling on Steve’s hair.

“Oh f-fuck!” Steve moans, hips spasming and bucking into your ass. You whine at the motion and Billy laughs at his reaction. Steve moves his mouth dangerously close to your ear and his hand moves to your neck.

“Play fair if you want to cum, angel,” he warns, almost laughing at how good that felt. He makes a mental note to have you do it again more, later, as they both continue to pound into you and feel you up. You’re surprised you’ve lasted this long, but you know it’s over when Steve starts playing with your nipples, pinching and rubbing them in that way that he knows makes heat pool between your legs. You gasp, and Billy takes the opportunity to place two of his fingers in your mouth. You hear Steve chuckle against your skin.

“Look at you with Billy’s fingers in your mouth, so pretty,” Steve coos in your ear, sending chills down your spine. It’s enough to send you over the edge again, and you moan out a muffled whine, squeezing and clamping around them, your legs shaking in their place around Billy’s waist.

You’re not sure how long it goes on for, and by the time that they shoot their last load of hot, sticky cum up both your holes, you’ve lost count of how many orgasms they’ve drawn out of you.

“Shit!” Steve hisses, continuing to fuck his cum deeper inside your ass, stretching you out and pumping you full “Oh god!” His moans are loud in spite of the fact that they’re partially muffled by his face in your neck. Finally, Billy follows suit, blowing his load inside your dripping pussy for the last time tonight. His eyes burn into yours as he moans out a laugh, hips bucking sporadically.

“F-fuck- just love being bred and stuffed in every hole, don’t you doll face?” his breath is warm against your face as he continues his torrent of filthy thoughts, riding out his high, “Huh?” He coaxes, “Want me and Harrington to fuck a baby into you? Knock you up real good…”

Eventually, somehow they run out of stamina, the thrusting of their cocks slowing down and finally coming to a stop, where they pull out of you with more gratuitously wet noises than you’ve ever heard. You rest your head on Billy’s chest, totally spaced out, only able to briefly muse that they were successful in fucking you until you can’t think straight.

When you’re all cleaned up, they curl up in bed on either side of you, Steve pulling you close to his bare chest, Billy’s grip on your waist rock strong. He guides you to look over at him, to which you comply, and he catches your mouth in another deep, open mouthed kiss.

“I think you learned your lesson, didn’t you doll face?” He asks, taking a moment to gaze at you lovingly. You nod, humming in response before curling up into Steve’s chest. They both settle against you, sandwiching you tightly between their warm, muscular bodies. “Eh, she’s not going to act up like that again,” Steve concludes, patting your hip, and Billy chuckles.

“Got that right.”

In the few moments before you almost instantaneously fall asleep, you think you might just act up like that again. Especially if it leads to this much fun.

#steve x reader x billy #billy hargrove x reader #billy hargrove smut #steve harrington x reader #steve harrington smut #steve harrington #billy hargrove #harringrove x reader #harringrove x reader smut #harringrove smut #stranger things smut #stranger things x reader #stranger things poly #stranger things #stranger things season 4 #stranger things 4

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chatonne-rousse · 3 years ago

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Turtle-y Awesome

@sketchy-panda sent me the following ask last week:

...and this is the story that sprang from that ask. You never know what you're going to get when you share a headcanon with me! 😉

Read it on Ao3 here.

"...et puit, quand il fut bien certain que personne ne pouvait le voir, Benjamin alluma sa veilleuse."

Adrien turns the last worn page and sets the book beside his knee on Hugo's bed.

"What do you think, kitten? Benjamin was turtle-y being a scaredy-cat, wasn't he?"

Hugo giggles, eyes bright. "He's not a cat, Papa, he's a turtle!"

Adrien nods sagely at his son. "Right you are," he says, patting the book's cover. "If this book tortoise anything, it's that Benjamin is definitely a turtle."

The number of turtle puns in the world is finite, and Hugo has heard his dad tell them all repeatedly, but he still laughs every time. The sound is music to Adrien's ears. He grins as he leans down to tuck the duvet around Hugo's shoulders and lifts his son's dark fringe to place a kiss on his forehead.

"Can we read another story, Papa? I'm not even tired."

Hugo's big green eyes scrunch shut as he yawns widely.

"Mmhmm. I can tell. You know what?" Adrien grabs another stuffed turtle from the bookcase and tucks it in beside the Carapace plushie already cradled in Hugo's arms. "Monsieur Vert looks very tired. He was almost sleeping over there! Maybe if you hold him really, really gently, that will help him fall asleep. I'm sure Carapace is tuckered out after a long day of superheroing, too."

"He is," Hugo says, nodding. He strokes his little hand up and over Monsieur Vert's soft shell. "I'll help them, Papa."

Adrien smiles even as his chest squeezes with emotion. "I know you will, my kind-hearted kitten." He can't resist pressing another kiss to Hugo's forehead and delights in receiving a loud, smacking kiss to his own cheek in return.

The turtle lamp on the nightstand is switched off and the Carapace nightlight beside the bookshelf activates, dim light glowing green through the plastic.

"Bonne nuit, ma petite tortue."

He watches his son cuddle his turtle and Carapace close as the closing door slowly eclipses the bed in shadow from the hallway light. Leaving the door open a crack, Adrien listens for a moment as Hugo gets comfortable in his bed.

He smiles as he pads down the hall toward Emma's room to join his wife for another round of goodnight kisses for their precious kittens.

*****

"Kitty, this is getting ridiculous. How is that the only thing he wants for his birthday?" Marinette shakes her head, but her grin betrays her lack of any real annoyance.

Adrien rubs his face and groans. "I know. Believe me, I know. Can you imagine if Nino knew?"

That surprises her. "You haven't told him? I told Alya ages ago when he said Carapace was his favorite." She thinks for a moment. "I don't think I've shared the, um...depth of the obsession, though."

He stares at her, deadpan, before they both laugh.

"Turtles I could handle, Mari. They're cute. They're green." He bats his eyes at her and she swats his arm playfully. "But Carapace? Carapace? When Chat Noir is right there? I don't get it."

"Awww, Chaton. Is my kitty jealous?"

"Of course not," he says, pouting, though he can't keep up the ruse and his smile breaks through. "Okay, maybe a little."

"Nino made a wonderful hero, and is the perfect holder for Wayzz, and you know it."

She scooches closer to him on the sofa and rubs his back gently. His eyes close for just a moment before opening them to find his wife gazing at him with what might just be his favorite look in her eyes - a teasing glint, a touch of heat, and an endless well of love. Everything goes fuzzy momentarily, but he catches her next words clearly.

"Besides, my favorite hero will always be Chat Noir. Always."

"Yeah?" he breathes.

She nods.

Her eyes go wide when he hauls her petite frame from the sofa beside him and settles her across his lap. She laughs as she wraps her arms around his neck and presses a kiss to his lips.

"What a coincidence, My Lady," he murmurs into the whisper of space between them, "because my favorite hero--" He pauses, kissing her again, "is also Chat Noir."

There's a beat of silence and then she's laughing, pressing her face into the crook of his neck to muffle her giggles. His arms tighten around her shaking shoulders as he laughs along with her, swept away by the sweet sound he will always love. There's no joy in the world quite like making his wife laugh.

"You know I'm kidding, Bug," he finally whispers into her hair when their laughter subsides. "Emma and I share a favorite hero. The greatest of all. Prettiest, too. Oh, wow, is she ever beautiful. And strong. And smart."

"Rena Rouge?" Marinette asks cheekily, her nose still pressed to his neck.

"Nooooo," he croons, tickling her sides until she laughs again. "It's Ladybug, jumping above, Lady magique et lady chance!"

"Kitty, no!" she begs through her giggles, "Don't get that in my head!"

"Too late!"

He silences the last of her laughter when he captures her lips with his, twin sighs mingling in the late-night quiet of the living room.

With forever in his arms and their shared future asleep down the hall, Adrien simply loses himself in this blissful moment, forgetting that their baby will turn five next weekend, that the passage of time is as inevitable as the dichotomy of creation and destruction. Wrapped up in his wife, time seems to stop altogether. Marinette - her love, her care, their unshakeable bond - is eternal.

But of course, the clock still ticks. And when they part a few minutes later, after one last kiss and a nuzzle of her nose against his, he still has to ask.

"So we're really throwing Hugo a Carapace-themed birthday party?"

She nods. "Yep."

"And we're buying him the new Shell-ter Secret Hideout Super Bunker, complete with Carapace action figure, power-ups, costume changes, a Turtle-mobile sports car that Nino never had, and four different colored shields that he also never had?"

"There's a jet, too, for some reason. But...yep."

Adrien nods slowly, a smile spreading across his face. "He's going to love it."

"Oh, he is," she affirms, her grin matching her husband's. "And so is Uncle Nino."

He snorts a laugh and pulls her close once more, breathing in the familiar scent of her shampoo.

"This'll be hilarious."

Marinette smiles against his shoulder.

"Yep."

*****

Everything is green.

Their normally colorful apartment seems to have transformed into an emerald dreamscape that doubles as a turtle sanctuary.

Everything is green, and there are turtles everywhere.

Sea turtles, tortoises, turtles of all kinds - including a certain turtle-themed superhero - adorn every surface. Adrien had been surprised by the amount of Carapace party merchandise he was able to find online. He's used to the numerous Carapace items in Hugo's bedroom, pieces he's added to his collection one by one over the past year or so. But this, his best friend's face dangling from streamers, emblazoned on little party hats, is just a little weird.

He's proud, though. A little jealous, a lot amused, and very, very proud. No desperately sad, pitifully lonely teenage boy has ever found a better friend than Nino Lahiffe. He's the brother of his heart, the mellow to his anxious, the staunch protector of their little group of best friends and hero teammates. Adrien has to admit that Hugo has great taste in favorite superheroes.

Someday he'll discover that his idol is also his Uncle Nino, but today is not that day. Today, the magic and wonder still shines in his son's eyes, and it's a beautiful thing.

Adrien putters around the kitchen making last-minute preparations to the food and drink selection, making sure there are plenty of cups and plates (all printed with a Carapace action scene, of course) stacked on the island. Oddly, he couldn't find Carapace napkins to go along with the other paper goods, but Marinette had saved the day by snagging a pack of sea turtle patterned napkins that coordinated perfectly in a pinch.

He smiles at the thought of his resourceful bug, his grin widening as he hears her welcome guests at the door. This is followed by a squeal of glee when Hugo and two of his classmates run off to his bedroom to play. Adrien shakes his head, still smiling. He'll have to lure them out in a bit with snacks and the promise of gifts and cake.

It's not like he doesn't already know from several years of experience that children's birthday parties are mostly adults mingling and intermittently making sure the kids don't get into too much mischief as they play together.

He takes the spinach quiche from the oven where it was warming up and sets it on the table with the other food, rebelliously placing a black potholder with a neon green pawprint pattern under the hot ceramic dish.

A towering, tiered tray of green macarons has pride of place on the dining room table, the top half of each cookie painted to look like a turtle's shell in edible glittering gold. They look almost too pretty to eat, and the same goes for the expertly-decorated turtle cake nearby, made by Hugo's grandparents and brought straight from the bakery for his big day.

The vegetable plate is an array of green, from broccoli to peppers to celery. The party has barely begun, but the celery is already running low, thanks to Emma's clandestine snacking in the hours beforehand.

Everything is green, and Hugo loves it. And that's what it's all about, really.

*****

Adrien is on his way back from checking in on the now half dozen kids playing in Hugo's room when he hears Alya's laughter from the entryway. Clearly she's spotted the party decor. He rounds the corner to find Marinette hugging her best friend, Alya's pregnant belly only getting in the way a bit and not stopping her from throwing her arms around Marinette's shoulders.

"Sorry we're late, Mari," she says, then pitches her voice to a stage whisper. "I had to pee. Twice." She leans back from the hug and cradles her bump. "Actually, I'm just going to..." She points down the hall, and Marinette laughs.

"Go for it, Als. We've all been there."

Nino is still crouched by the door, helping his daughter out of her jacket and shoes. He just shakes his head and laughs. She races off to find her "cousins" and Nino stands, kissing Marinette on each cheek and wrapping Adrien in a hug.

Surveying the apartment over Adrien's shoulder, he claps him on the back and says, "I love what you've done with the place. Very inspired design choice."

Adrien rolls his eyes and all three of them laugh.

"Hugo is obsessed with turtles. You have no idea."

"Oh, I think he has some idea, Minou." Marinette smiles at her husband over her shoulder, linking arms with Alya when she joins them again and ushering her into the green-bedecked living room.

He glances sidelong at Nino with a sheepish grin. "This isn't too weird for you, is it? It was all Hugo's idea. He hasn't stopped talking about his 'Carapace Turtle Party' for weeks," Adrien says, air quotes included.

"Nah, mec, it's cool. Kind of flattering." Nino raises an eyebrow and laughs. "What do you think he'll say when you tell him someday?"

Adrien just shakes his head. "Probably ask if you can adopt him and be his dad instead." His smile is teasing but just a touch rueful.

Nino laughs again. "No way, man. Number one, I've already got enough kids. Number two, you're the best dad. They love you like crazy, bro. Seriously."

His chest fills with warmth. Nino is such an incredible friend. And he's right (about the last bit, at least).

"They're incredible, Nino. Being a dad is..." He trails off, unable to find the words.

"I know, dude." He claps Adrien on the shoulder. "They're a pain in the ass, but they make up for it by being totally awesome."

Nino glances around, finally spotting the table full of green food and turtle-themed treats.

"Wait. Bro. Is that a turtle cake?"

*****

"You know," Nino says a few minutes later, washing down a matcha macaron with a swig of turtle punch, "I could get used to this. It would mess with my head, but after a while--" he looks at the cup with his face on it and shrugs, "it's not so strange. Better than having my face plastered on a billboard outside the Galeries Lafayette."

Adrien groans. "Et tu, Brute? Why would you remind me of that?"

"Because I can." Nino takes another bite of macaron and nudges his best friend's shoulder, laughing.

*****

As the kids snack and carry on, Adrien finally decides it's time to let his best friend see the Carapace shrine that is his son's bedroom.

Nino takes in Hugo's completely green, turtle-filled bedroom as Adrien waits with bated breath beside him for his reaction.

It is, as usual, relatively chill.

"Little dude has good taste!"

"Indeed." Wayzz peeks from Nino's collar with a pleased smile on his face. "The turtle has always symbolized wisdom, strength, and longevity." His tiny smile widens. "I'm also partial to the color green."

Nino steps farther into Hugo's room to examine the bookcase. "I...did not know they made this much Carapace merch."

"Believe me, there's more. We have to draw the line somewhere." Adrien closes his eyes and sighs. "Although he does brush his teeth with a Carapace toothbrush."

Nino's laugh starts as a snort and builds when he spots the Carapace wastebasket beside Hugo's bed and the Carapace plushie propped against his pillow. It turns positively raucous when he sees his best friend's face.

"Holy crap, dude," he wheezes. "This is hilarious. You must be so jealous."

"I am not!"

"You totally are."

"Well--" Adrien sputters, "Marinette is, too!"

"Not as much as you are, Kitty!" she calls from the living room.

Adrien throws his hands in the air. Nino doubles over.

"Chat Noir is cool, too," he mutters, petulant.

A still-laughing Nino pats his arm consolingly. "If it makes you feel any better, Chat Noir is my favorite hero...after Rena Rouge."

That actually does make him feel better, but he's not telling Nino that. Instead, he just grins a sly half-smile at his best friend. "Good save, man."

"Hey, I know which side my bread is buttered on, mec. Don't act like you don't."

Adrien is helpless to the smile that spreads across his face.

Nino groans. "You've been married for seven years, dude. Are you ever not going to go all gooey just thinking about Marinette?"

Adrien quirks an eyebrow and glances sidelong at him. Nino nods once and pats Adrien's shoulder.

"That was a dumb question, wasn't it?"

"Yep," Marinette says from the hallway behind them.

Adrien's heart beats faster at the twinkle in her eye. He wonders how much she heard. Probably all of it - she always did have sonic hearing, but motherhood seemed to ramp it up to eleven. Not much escapes his wife.

"Time for cake and presents," she announces. "Nino, you can revel in Hugo's Carapace shrine later."

"And I will, don't you worry," Nino says with a laugh as he turns to head back to the party.

Adrien throws an arm over his best friend's shoulder and smiles brightly at Marinette.

Hugo has merch, but Adrien has a real, live Ladybug who promised eternity to her Chat Noir. He holds his own favorite superhero in his arms every night, and nothing, nothing compares to that.

*****

Surrounded by wrapping paper and bows, the birthday boy sits on the floor with one last gift in front of him. The box is taller than he is when seated, and he has to stand up on his knees to tear the paper off the top. As soon as he can see what's inside, he shouts with glee and jumps to his feet. Overjoyed, he scampers around the coffee table to his parents, first thanking Marinette with a hug and kiss, then getting swept up in Adrien's arms for a bear hug.

The fact that Hugo doesn't push away from him to return to his barely-unwrapped gift is not lost on him, nor is the fact that he abandoned it and thought to thank them first in his excitement.

Sometimes Adrien feels like he's been given so much more than he deserves. Marinette alone is a blessing beyond his imagination, but Emma and Hugo, too? It's too much and he knows it, so he holds them close and relishes every single moment like this one with his little boy hugging him tight and murmuring thanks into his neck.

A few minutes later finds Hugo examining every detail of his new treasure (after Adrien wrangled all the parts out of their plastic-encased prison).

He claps his hands when he sees that this set comes with a bonus Chat Noir action figure in addition to Carapace and his shields of many colors.

"Maman!" he cries, jubilant, holding Chat Noir above his head so she can see. "Look! It has Chat Noir! You love Chat Noir!"

Blushing, Marinette pointedly avoids looking in the direction of the two moms of Hugo's school friends who've stayed for the party but smiles widely at her son. "I do. He's my favorite superhero of all time."

Hugo nods, turning to his dad where he sits beside him on the floor, struggling to snip the tiny plastic anchors holding each piece to the cardboard backing.

"See, Papa? He's Carapace's sidekick."

"Hey!" Adrien says indignantly. He looks up from the mess of cardboard and plastic in his lap as Marinette, Alya, and Nino laugh.

Nino, best bro that he is, chimes in. "Nah, little man, Chat Noir is no one's sidekick. He's way too brave and cool for that." He grins at Hugo and points first to the Carapace action figure on the coffee table and then to Chat Noir in his hand. "They're a team. Best friends and superheroes at the same time. That's why they're so awesome."

Hugo looks at the Chat Noir figure for a long moment. "Wow," he breathes. "Chat Noir is as cool as Carapace." He says it like a revelation that's rocked his entire worldview.

Alya sniffles and Marinette hands her a tissue.

"Okay, but Ladybug is still the coolest," Emma pipes up from Hugo's other side.

All the adults besides Marinette nod. Adrien reaches around Hugo to pat Emma's back.

"You're absolutely correct, kitten."

Marinette blushes again and Alya blows her nose.

Hugo tucks Carapace into the driver's seat of the Turtle-mobile with Chat Noir beside him as his passenger, racing the sports car across the rug toward his friends so they can play with his new toys, too.

Adrien looks from his son to his own best friend, and Nino gives him a thumbs up and a grin.

*****

Later, when the dishes are washed and their living room looks slightly less like a turtle habitat, Adrien sits on the sofa with a cup of tea and watches Hugo play with his new, treasured birthday gifts. The Shell-ter Secret Hideout Super Bunker is open, its many accessories strewn around Hugo where he sits cross-legged, Carapace in his left hand and Chat Noir in his right.

"I'll protect you!" "Carapace" cries, Hugo's voice pitched to sound brave and true but still carrying his sweet child's tone.

"Thank you for keeping My Lady safe, Carapace!"

Adrien snorts a surprised laugh into his tea. "Chat Noir" speaks in a husky growl, though Hugo gives him a note of cheery confidence, as though he truly appreciates Carapace's brave deeds, as though Chat Noir can take the decisive cataclysmic swing knowing his beloved partner is safe from harm.

And honestly, Hugo has the right of it. Adrien wonders how his son could possibly know that this exact scene - with slightly different dialogue, of course - played out many times over, years before he was born.

Hugo mimics the sound of an explosion, then an "oof!" as Chat Noir falls to his back but springs up again quickly. Just as Carapace returns to Chat's side with a confident, "What can I do to help save the day, Chat Noir?", Marinette's hands snake around Adrien's shoulders from behind, surprising him.

He sets his mug on a coaster on the end table and wraps his hands around her forearms, pulling her in closer. Leaned over the back of the sofa, she nuzzles his cheek with hers before pressing a kiss to the corner of his mouth.

"I think we pulled off the dream turtle party pretty well, don't you, Chaton?"

"Oh, we turtle-y did."

Adrien delights in the huff of laughter she exhales against his cheek. That might be the most overused pun in the house, but sometimes it still lands just right. They watch Hugo play, matching grins making their cheeks press closer together.

"Looks like that was one shell of a gift, eh?"

He swoons dramatically, his head falling to the back cushion of the sofa so he looks at Marinette upside-down. "My Lady, you know what it does to me when you pun."

"Oh, I do," she says, completely unapologetic, and boops his nose.

He just has to lean up to kiss her because, well, she's so beautiful and he loves her so much and she's right there.

They break apart a moment later when they hear Emma call for Marinette from her bedroom. She plants one last upside-down kiss on his forehead and lets her hands drift slowly across his chest and shoulders as she stands.

She gives him a wry smile. "Duty calls."

"Hmmm," he hums thoughtfully, picking up his tea and taking another sip. "And here I thought her name was Emma."

Marinette groans at him as she walks away, and the sound catches Hugo's attention.

"Papa? Will you play superheroes with me?"

Of course. Always. I will never, ever be too busy for my kittens, he thinks.

"Sure, buddy," he says instead.

Finishing his tea in one big gulp, he slides from the sofa and scampers on hands and knees like a giant cat to where his son is playing. Hugo giggles at his dad's ridiculousness.

Adrien takes stock of the many accessories scattered around the play set and asks, "What are Chat Noir and Carapace up to today?"

Hugo explains the situation, the bad guy's motives, and what the heroes need to do to save Paris from disaster. Adrien listens carefully. Looking up at him with green eyes that match his own, big and wide and crinkled at the corners with his happy smile, Hugo offers the Chat Noir action figure to his dad.

"Will you be Chat Noir, Papa? He's Carapace's best friend in the world and they need to work together to save the day."

Adrien cradles the action figure in one hand and gently pats the pocket where Plagg hides with the other. His kwami presses a paw against his chest in return. Overwhelmed, all he can do is grin at Hugo and try not to cry.

"It would be my greatest honor," he vows grandly, holding up a hand in oath. "I purr-omise to be the best hero I can be. Cat's honor."

Hugo laughs. "You said honor twice."

"So I did. That's because it's very important."

His son nods solemnly, then reaches for Carapace's super jet. He places the hero in the cockpit and flies the jet around his head, making zooming noises.

"Are you ready, Chat Noir? I'm coming to pick you up!"

The jet has only one seat, but that doesn't seem to bother Hugo. Adrien readies the tiny plastic baton in Chat Noir's hand and uses it to vault from his own knee into the imaginary sky over Paris.

"Meow-velous!" he crows, delighted. "This cat is ready to be whiskered away in your very realistic jet! Allons-y, my turtle friend!"

Hugo giggles, Adrien's heart melts, and they set off on a grand adventure together.

#domestic fluff #dadrien #mominette #hugo loves turtles #and carapace #and uncle nino loves it #marinette dupain cheng #adrien agreste #adrienette #future fic #family fluff #thanks for the idea sketchy!#gift fic #ml fanfiction #ml fanfic #ml #miraculous ladybug #my writing

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maniacwatchestheworld · 3 years ago

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So responding to that one anon with those ridiculously long posts as I do got me to thinking about some things. And so now I want to express some niggles that I've been thinking about trying to find an excuse to talk about, but haven't really found one until now!

Now I MUST preface this with the disclaimer that I've never really played a Resident Evil game before. My brain just decided to fixate on Village because that's how my ADHD brain do sometimes, I guess! So I am entirely speaking out of my ass here. But from the sounds of things, especially with how that anon put things, Rose kinda sounds at odds with the normal status quo of the Resi games. RE games have big baddies that were infected with some kind of virus or whatnot at some point and made into bioweapons. They start killing things, so the good guys come in, put them down, the day is saved, maybe one of the good guys was infected, but they're cured now, so it's all good! Weep at the tragedy of the innocent lives lost and how things couldn't be better for those who were infected as they were too far gone and had to die for the sake of the safety of humanity. But Rose on the other hand is born as something of a bioweapon (albeit probably not on purpose, and if she was then Mia did something REAL fucked up there!) and is allowed to continue living on as she is. Sure, she seems to be under some kind of surveillance and 'testing', but otherwise she seems to be a pretty normal young woman. Just a kid who is given love and support by her family, is given enough freedom to be able to wander off on her own sometimes, and while she may have issues, is just trying to make the best of her life just like anyone else her age. She also just happens to be a seemingly immensely powerful mold baby. And if that ending was indeed setting Rose up as the protagonist of the next Resident Evil game, then that could lead to an interesting tension between her and the status quo, established themes, and narratives of the Resident Evil series as a whole. Specifically, it may be trying to question the morality of killing these bioweapons that have served as the main antagonists for most of the games. But again. I haven't actually played these games, so what do I know? Nothing, actually! :D

But in any case, let's talk about a small thing that kinda bugs me! So in Village, when Ethan puts the Rose Flasks into the Giant's Chalice, he and us as the player get to experience a few images of the Lords approaching Rose from her point of view. Now once I was able to tell what this was, the question occurred to me. Why are we seeing this? What purpose do these images serve? Why have the game devs decided to give us these images here? They don't seem to serve much purpose, right? At this point in the game, Ethan and us as the player have already met and seen the Lords and kinda know what they're all about. So this isn't exactly a brief preview or foreshadowing Ethan meeting them for the first time in the future. In fact, by this time in the game, Ethan has already at least killed Lady Dimitrescu, so it's not like he needs to be reminded of what his quest is or what he has to do to save Rose. In fact, the player can choose to only put all the flasks in after collecting all four of them and at that point, Ethan is WELL acquainted with the Lords (having already killed 3 and on his way to kill the 4th). So narratively this doesn't seemingly help Ethan or the player out at all. It just seems kinda random, and yet is being given this little bit of narritive focus as if it means something important when as far as I can tell, nothing comes of it. But here's a thought. The images are from Rose's point of view. So perhaps they weren't really supposed to tell Ethan anything. Rather they were trying to tell us, the players, that even though Rose may be a baby now, that she is going to be able to remember the Lords in the future. And why will she have to remember them in the future? Because they're going to return in the next game to some capacity.

A big plot point about the Megamycete is that it's able to store information about anyone who has interacted with it, and the Lords, having Megamycete infected nematodes implanted into their bodies, quite obviously qualify. It feels kinda weird to have this plot point in the game and to barely even use it, so it makes sense that this feature of the mold would make a return in the future. And so given that the mold may make a return to bring someone back from the dead, and Rose will need to remember the Lords, it makes sense that perhaps the Lords are going to be the ones to be resurrected at some point during the next game. So if the Lords are going to be resurrected in some capacity and Rose is going to be able to remember them, what role will they serve?

Well, when discussing Heisenberg's character with this anon it occurred to me... He would actually make for a very natural foil against Rose as a character! They are both made of the same stuff, both having been made into what they are now by the Megamycete. Both have somehow died and been resurrected. Both seem to have issues with anger and aggression. Both were raised/made to be strong. And if Capcom isn't full of a bunch of COWARDS! then even though they both barely knew him, they both loved Ethan in some capacity. (Let Heisenberg be a dumbass with a crush, dammit! You cannot convince me that this man is straight! Also Rose roasting Heisenberg over having a crush on her dad? Give me please!?) But where Rose is a young woman, Karl is an older man. Where Rose's abilities would likely lie in the organic through her utilization of the mold, Karl's abilities lie mainly in the mechanical and artificial. And if I am right about Karl having been taken by Miranda at a young age, that adds even more to the dynamic of them being foils to one another! Because where Rose was raised with a lot of support behind her, mostly by a mother that loves her, Karl was raised in an abusive household and made to mostly take care of himself as his mother didn't care very much for him. And where Rose was raised as a person who just so happened to be a bioweapon, Karl was raised as a bioweapon who just so happens to resemble a person. It could lead to a very interesting conflict and theme of nature vs. nurture between the two of them. Heisenberg is convinced that they are both slaves to their nature and when it comes down to it, they will only be able to act as the weapons that their natures dictate that they are. Meanwhile Rose believes that they can be more than just the weapons they were made into and can both be their own people. Also given how one of the last things that Ethan said before dying was asking Chris to raise Rose to be strong, it would be interesting to see what her idea of strength is and how it contrasts against Heisenberg's philosophy of, "The strong will destroy the weak."

Just... The two of them bouncing off of one another could lead to an interesting dynamic and discussion, and if they were to work together, I think that even their gameplay could contrast against one another in an interesting way! Where Rose would take the traditional Resident Evil protagonist role of shooting people from a distance, Heisenberg would get up close and personal, smashing enemies with his hammer. Rose could be very much a glass cannon, while Heisenberg would be a tank! (Appropriate!) The contrast between the two characters would just be... So good! And and if they go against the Resi games of the past by examining how the bioweapons could possibly be saved and redeemed... It could really be a neat direction for the game! But I know that this is entirely wishful speculation on my part with very little basis in in-game evidence. But if true, I do think that it would be neat! At the very least, now I want to see fanfic exploring the idea of these two being foils! Just... Please give it to me. I've been looking and haven't found any. I don't want to have to do this myself. >.>

#resident evil rose #rosemary winters #rose winters #resident evil heisenberg #karl heisenberg #lord heisenberg #resident evil viii #resident evil 8 #resident evil village #resident evil theory #re village #re8 #resident evil

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mittensmorgul · 8 years ago

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i love your s12 spn meta post, i love how you've analysed things and looked through different angles, but i have to admit. sometimes i feel that us fans of the show think more complexly about the characters and scenes than the writers themselves. they've shown continuity errors and character development mistakes time and time again, and the queerbaiting is frustrating as fuck. it doesn't make sense to me that these people are the same ones orchestrating such fantastic plotlines.

(i ran out of space for that previous ask) but again, i sincerely mean no disrespect to you or to the creators of the show. it was just my two cents. i'm sorry if you find it offensive in any way, i definitely did not mean for it to come off as rude! :(

Hi... I didn’t take it as rude, so you’re fine. :P

(I probably wouldn’t have posted it on anon, though, just because I don’t see the show as being fully of continuity errors and character development mistakes, and “queerbaiting” is in the eye of the beholder and seems a harsh statement to level against a writing staff that is comprised of several LGBT writers. Especially when they have been addressing queer characters and issues in serious ways, and absolutely not making them the punchline of a joke or dismissing them. It’s a word I would not throw around so casually.)

***On second thought, after typing ALL of this out, I feel like having spent the whole morning on it, it should be on my blog... I hope that’s okay.

Half the point of my rewatch (which, oops, I’m behind on because TNT showed a ten episode marathon the morning after a new episode aired, and the new episode had to take priority over the old) is to point out how consistent ALL of these things are.

There’s a post I like very much that I just saw again yesterday:

People should probably learn the difference between “plot holes” and “things I didn’t like” or “things the franchise plans to explain in the future” or “things film makers didn’t think they needed to explicitly explain because they thought you had critical thinking skills”

I didn’t reblog it because it’s already somewhere on my blog from ages ago, but especially relevant to s12, because of the way they’re telling the story.

99% of the time what looks on the surface like a “plot hole” is actually an expansion of canon, and yelling PLOT HOLE! or RETCON! just because something seems different means there’s a reason for the difference now.

Like the fact we’ve seen several shapshifters who don’t shed their skin like puddles of goo and can just *poof* into a new form. We’ve had shifters like this since s6 when we learned about the alphas. Truly powerful shifters don’t need to shed to change form.

(on a practical level, it makes the prop department’s job easier because they don’t have to create goo puddles, but also they’re able to use a shifter’s ability to change instantly as a plot point, and have done so several times very effectively. Like in 12.20 when Ketch was torturing “Mary” and punched her, so the shifter took on HIS form. They couldn’t have done that if they hadn’t introduced this more powerful strain of shifter before.)

Technically, everything that’s happened since 4.01 would fit the strictest definition of plot hole, because it had already been established that angels did not exist. And yet... here were angels.

Cas said in the past that angels were now walking the earth for the first time in two thousand years, so the fact he’d been down here in a vessel in 1901 must be a plot hole too... unless you assume that Cas’s previous statement was both specific and hyperbolic (which really isn’t a stretch, angels have always avoided certain truths in order to manipulate us). Angels as a whole hadn’t embarked on a unified mission to earth in the last 2000 years, but we know that Lily’s first encounter with Ishim in 1901 was because SHE SUMMONED HIM. She performed a magical spell that BROUGHT AN ANGEL TO EARTH. And the events of their relationship unfolded to the point she felt compelled to summon yet another angel (Akobel) to protect her from Ishim. Well, suddenly there’s a whole flight of angels coming to kill her, you know? It’s not the sort of story that any of the angels involved would be cheerfully chirping on about.

Point being, if Lily Sunder was capable of summoning an angel, there’s probably been OTHER people over the course of human history who’d tried it too. All of heaven may not have descended like they did in s4, but here and there, angels very well may have been watching over us.

It’s not a plot hole, it’s an expansion of canon. It refines our understanding and reminds us that we don’t know everything about the entire history of that universe.

I think there’s two kinds of people: Those who see something they think is a “mistake” in canon and scream PLOT HOLE! and get upset about it and think the writers are idiots, and then there are those who see that same thing and wonder how does that fit with the information I already have and then try to understand.

Sometimes a plot hole is just a plot hole (like the time travel nonsense in 12.13 that turns into a strange loop of infinitely decreasing returns), but most of the time it’s really really not.

As for characterization “errors”, most of the time they are incredibly purposeful. Like the whole scene at the beginning of 12.15. People are STILL shouting, “Out of character! Dean hates germs! He would NEVER do that!” and therefore MISSED THE ENTIRE POINT OF THAT SCENE.

Which was SAM standing there staring at Dean THINKING THE EXACT SAME THING.

Dean was putting on the performance FOR SAM. He KNEW Sam was lying to him about where the cases were coming from, and Dean’s not a moron. They visit the MoL, and suddenly a few days later Sam’s got a “magic phone app” that finds cases for him? Yeah, Dean wasn’t about to let Sam keep lying to him, and yet Sam was STILL lying to him even after two weeks of hunting, so he kept upping the Disgusting Quota trying to get Sam to break and confess. Because if he just comes out and asks Sam directly, he continues to lie and give him weak excuses. There’s more to it than that, but that’s the basics right there...

The one characterization thing that actually bugs me was the scene in 9.04 where Sam and Dean are watching Game of Thrones with Charlie, and Jensen and Jared DECIDED TO SWAP LINES because they felt that Sam was the one who would read the books, and not Dean... (Robbie Thompson, who wrote the scene, is still grumpy about it, too). Because DEAN DOES READ. And in this scene HE was the one who was supposed to be mirrored to Charlie through their mutual love of this particular brand of nerdery. It sort of wrecks the entire characterization of the episode, in which Dean’s usual “performing Dean” persona was SUPPOSED to fall down in Charlie’s company, and he would casually and comfortably admit he enjoyed reading the epic fantasy series (which, really, we know Dean reads fantasy novels... he’s a huge effing nerd).

Why do you think in 11.04 (also by Robbie Thompson) he wrote the line about Dean knowing that the phrase “god helps those who helps themselves” was from Aesop and not the bible? Because Jensen COULDN’T JUST HAND THAT LINE TO JARED. He HAD to admit he read. Because Performing Dean is one thing, but when he’s not trying to project that facade, he’s brilliant.

So yeah, 99% of it is 100% intentional. It’s our job as viewers to think about why. You can absolutely watch the show as a passive casual viewer (and the most casual viewer wouldn’t even NOTICE the things that get called plot holes or characterization mistakes), or you can see those things that seem not to make sense on the surface and look for the reason they struck you as being slightly wrong. Because if you dig just a little bit deeper, it opens up an entire new level of understanding about the show.

The writing is NEVER going to hand you all of that deeper characterization on a plate. That would make for TERRIBLE writing. All they want is for the characters and the plots to stick with us, so that we DO turn these issues over in our heads, so we DO think critically about them, and hopefully come to some compelling and fascinating conclusions. Or at the very least we’re eager to tune in again the following week to see if our suspicions are confirmed.

This is a hook that writers have been using since writing was a thing. This is how stories are told. Not just in the words, but in the negative spaces. We’re not just supposed to consume stories, but in the very best way, the best stories also consume US. They make us into an active participant in the narrative, and force us to consider the world and characters on our screens as real people.

That’s how all of this works.

#spn meta meta #this is how stories work #caerulaen

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keeganmsod156 · 6 years ago

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KRATOM: THE RUGGED PLANT LIFE WHICH CAN ASSIST OPIOID ADDICTS-- WHEN THE DEA DOESN'T BAN IT

The girl up in East Greenwich, Rhode Island. It is a little community, affluent and charmingly New England. Heroin was very available there, and great.

She stopped going to school, stopped doing much of anything besides scoring drugs, doing drugs, taking things, offering stuff, scoring more drugs, doing more drugs. "This was the beginning of the New England heroin epidemic," she says.

In 2014, overdoses from heroin or prescription opioids killed 30,000 people-- four times as lots of than in 1999. Today, 3,900 new people start using prescription opioids for non-medical functions every day. The annual health and social expenses of the prescription opioid crisis in America?

Campellone kicked her routine at 19-- with rehabilitation, suboxone, and a great deal of willpower-- and left west, to the San Francisco Bay Area. She started working at a natural remedy store in Berkeley. Her bosses and co-workers presented her to a plethora of plant-based items, amongst them a tart-tasting leaf called kratom. It provides a minor, euphoric high. When you spin around in circles after the dizziness uses off, like the feeling that remains. It was also a good pain reliever, so she 'd take it when she was injured, or on her menstrual cycle.

And, on 2 celebrations, she used it to help with the withdrawal signs following heroin regressions. "Nothing actually feels good when you're withdrawing from heroin, so no matter what you're taking, you're still in pain and it's pretty agonizing," says Campellone. But kratom helped some.

Campellone never ever needs a prescription to get kratom. And when she does not take it, she doesn't crave it like she yearned for heroin. She was shocked when, on August 30, the DEA revealed that it was pursuing an emergency scheduling of mitragynine and 7-hydroxymitragynine, the active alkaloids in kratom.

The DEA Takes an Exception to Kratom

youtube

Biologically, kratom acts enough like an opioid that DEA considers it a danger to public safety. The company prepared to utilize a regulatory mechanism called emergency scheduling to position it in the exact same limiting category as lsd, heroin, and marijuana . This category, Schedule I, is booked for exactly what the DEA thinks about the most harmful drugs-- those without any redeeming medical worth, and a high potential for abuse.

Prior to they settled the scheduling, something unexpected took place. An advocacy group called the American Kratom Association (yes, AKA) raised $400,000 from its impassioned membership-- impressive for a nonprofit that typically raises $80,000 a year-- to spend for lobbyists and legal representatives , who got Congress on their side.

On September 30, agents both conservative and liberal -- from Orrin Hatch to Bernie Sanders-- penned a letter to the DEA. "Given the long reported history of kratom usage, coupled with the general public's belief that it is a safe option to prescription opioids, we believe utilizing the regular evaluation process would attend to a much-needed discussion among all stakeholders," they wrote.

It worked. The DEA raised the notice of emergency scheduling, and opened a public remark period until December 1. When was the last time the DEA backed off anything? "This is unusual," says Gantt Galloway, a Bay Area pharmacologist specializing in treatments for addictive drugs. When the DEA responded to public protest like this, Galloway could not remember another circumstances.

They are from: people who use kratom to alleviate chronic discomfort or endometriosis or gout; people who utilize kratom to deal with depression or wean off opioids or alcohol; individuals who stated it conserved their life. "It doesn't allow you to leave your issues," says Susan Ash, founder of the AKA, who used kratom to deal with discomfort and escape an dependency to prescription opioids.

And certainly not sufficient to back up all the life-changing claims proclaimed in public remarks, and by the numerous kratom users we interviewed. And should the DEA follow through on its guarantee to schedule kratom, these individuals will become wrongdoers over night.

For Ash, that's entirely unacceptable. "I desire the future to look like this is your next coffee," she says. "I 'd like it to be offered in Starbucks. I'm not even kidding."

An Herb Wades Into an Opioid Crisis

Kratom is not an opioid-- really, it is in the coffee household-- but its active particles bind to the same neuronal receptors as opioids like heroin, oxycodone, codeine, and morphine . Generally, those drugs provide users a feeling of bliss and dull their pain-- that's why David *, a previous boarding school instructor, began utilizing prescription opioids to treat his discomfort from ski injuries.

When David eventually dedicated himself to rehab, his physicians weaned him off heroin utilizing suboxone, a mix of two drugs-- buprenorphine, a partial opioid that satiates https://www.drugs.com/illicit/kratom.html the body's chemical thirst, and naltrexone, which blocks any euphoric opioid feelings. Suboxone can give users symptoms of withdrawal, not to mention a dulled sense of reality. And users like David can still discover ways to abuse it. "Dependence on that was different from heroin, and it ended up being simpler to take more suboxone to a greater high, or offering it to score heroin again," he says.

Since this writing, however, David has actually been clean for 18 months-- success that he attributes to kratom. Considering that it binds to the very same receptors as opioids, kratom users report similar euphoric and pain-killing results, but they're muted. After other 12 action recovering addicts presented David to the plant, it assisted him reconstruct his life-- he did eventually lose that boarding school mentor task-- and deal with the physical pain that got him hooked on opioids to start with.

Given that it mirrors opioids in other methods, the issue is that kratom is also addicting. Again, the genuine science is sporadic. David and a number of other users we spoke with stated kratom is routine forming, to some degree, though one survey in Southeast Asia discovered that for individuals utilizing it to kick an opioid dependency, the dependence is far less most likely to interrupt their lives. "When I take kratom, that addictive part of me kicks in and it ends up being regular," states Jeffrey *, another previous opioid addict. "It does not throw my life out of control, however it bugs me when individuals state things like, 'it's not more addicting than coffee.' I think that hinders us making inroads with the regulators."

There is no doubt, however, that kratom is less hazardous than opioids-- even take-home synthetics like suboxone. They do it through breathing depression-- they slow your breath till you stop breathing totally when opioids eliminate. But kratom's chemical composition does not appear to produce the very same results. "The two primary alkaloids in 7-hydroxy, kratom and mitragynine , appear to have a low ceiling for breathing anxiety," states pharmacologist Jack Henningfield of the Johns Hopkins School of Medicine, who with the consulting company Pinney Associates has recommended the AKA on kratom scheduling. "And that's why if you look hard, it's really hard to discover deaths attributable simply to kratom."

In its preliminary notice of emergency situation scheduling for kratom, the DEA did link the drug to 15 deaths between 2014 and 2016. Folks utilizing kratom to wean themselves off opioids might still be taking those opioids.

And some deaths might be attributed to contamination: Because kratom isn't really strictly controlled, bad stars can and do lace the plant with real opioids, like the exceptionally powerful artificial opioid fentanyl. Well, we've got a special kratom item,'" Henningfield states. The concern is whether the DEA's scheduling is the ideal kind.

Regulative Wranglings

The FDA could assist prevent contamination-related deaths by strictly regulating kratom as a supplement, rather than the DEA scheduling it as a drug. "FDA has a great deal of authority to in fact assist consumers understand that exactly what they're purchasing is exactly what is labeled, and have at least some level of assurance," Henningfield says. "It's not close to the drug standard, however it's much better than something that's illegally marketed."

The FDA is really also essential in encouraging the DEA on the scheduling of drugs. "The choice to permanently arrange any drug is not a DEA unilateral choice," states Steve Bell, a DEA representative. Consider the regulative path of suboxone. The FDA approved the drug in 2002, and the Department of Health and Human Services advised that the DEA put it in Schedule III, which the DEA accepted. This puts the drug in the same classification as Tylenol with codeine: It's readily available for physicians to prescribe for narcotic dependency, but is still a illegal drug.

If the DEA locations kratom here, nobody can touch the stuff. And scientists will have a more difficult time learning how kratom works, and supporting, or refuting, the claims users make with tough data. (Consider cannabis, likewise a Schedule I drug.

All that research costs loan. Which is kratom's catch-22: The DEA desires to arrange the drug because they believe it may present a threat to public health, but the only method to verify (or refute) the DEA's concerns is with more research-- which will be beside difficult ought to the DEA follow through on its promise to schedule.

One of the few scientists studying kratom is the University of Florida's Oliver Grundmann, who is finishing up an online survey of nearly 10,000 users. And the data ( initial, though Grundmann plans to release a paper in the coming months) exposes a various profile of kratom users than you 'd anticipate from an " illegal" leisure drug.

" The age variety is more tailored toward an older population," says Grundmann, "which is most likely to experience work related injuries or intense or persistent discomfort from another medical condition." Over half of users are between the ages of 31 and 50. Eighty-two percent completed at least some college. Almost 30 percent of respondents draw in a home income of over $75,000 a year. Not the celebration drug demographic. And the general public talk about the DEA's scheduling notice show that population. Much of those folks are utilizing kratom to either wean themselves off prescription opioids or use the drug alone to deal with pain.

Still, that's self-medication using a product that might be infected. "The industry has to come together," says Susan Ash of the AKA. "There's no method the FDA is going to feel comfortable not seeing this as a arranged controlled substance without a commitment from the industry that there will be proper measures put in location." Better labeling, for circumstances, would be a start.

Grundmann says he understands the DEA's motivation. "They do not wish to have another drug out there that could possibly add to the currently https://americanaddictioncenters.org/kratom/does-it-get-you-high devastating opioid epidemic that some communities are experiencing," he states. "But on the other side, we also have to think about that the 4 to 5 million approximated users of kratom may deal with a health crisis of their own if kratom becomes set up.".

Anecdotes and Evidence.

Ariana Campellone takes her kratom with coconut milk and protein powder. Then, she blends, diluting with water to take the lumps from the mix. By itself, the stuff tastes horrible. Like oversteeped tea, or a mouthful of peat. She thinks the comparison to coffee is a bit overemphasized. "Coffee gives me a visible spike and high, and can feel when I'm boiling down," she states.

The DEA's public remark duration closes tomorrow. The firm says it will consider those remarks together with the FDA's clinical and medical assessment prior to proceeding to schedule. The FDA did not react in time to talk about this story.

If the DEA follows through on its previous intent to schedule, Campellone says she'll still continue to use kratom. "Just like people have actually continued to utilize cannabis where it's not legal," she says. In practical terms, it implies getting ahold of kratom would most likely get more personally risky and pricey . Those costs, those risks-- those troubles-- may not deserve it to some kratom users. And after that the not-so-small neighborhood of recuperating opioid addicts lose something readily available, and perhaps rather great.

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beckettmoba468-blog · 6 years ago

Text

KRATOM: THE BITTER PLANT LIFE WHICH SHOULD SUPPORT OPIOID JUNKIES-- WHEN THE DEA DOESN'T BAN IT

The young woman up in East Greenwich, Rhode Island. It is a little neighborhood, affluent and charmingly New England. Heroin was really readily available there, and excellent.

By age 15, Campellone was a everyday user. She stopped going to school, stopped doing much of anything besides scoring drugs, doing drugs, taking stuff, selling stuff, scoring more drugs, doing more drugs. "This was the start of the New England heroin epidemic," she says. "Everyone I understood was overdosing, passing away, lives breaking down, people contracting diseases from sharing needles."

youtube

In 2014, overdoses from heroin or prescription opioids eliminated 30,000 individuals-- 4 times as numerous than in 1999. Today, 3,900 brand-new people begin using prescription opioids for non-medical functions every day. The annual health and social costs of the prescription opioid crisis in America?

Campellone kicked her practice at 19-- with rehabilitation, suboxone, and a lot of self-control-- and moved out west, to the San Francisco Bay Area. Her co-workers and employers presented her to a plethora of plant-based items, among them a tart-tasting leaf called kratom. It was also a good painkiller, so she 'd take it when she was hurt, or on her menstrual cycle.

And, on two celebrations, she utilized it to assist with the withdrawal signs following heroin relapses. "Nothing actually feels excellent when you're withdrawing from heroin, so no matter what you're taking, you're still in discomfort and it's pretty excruciating," states Campellone. Kratom assisted some.

Campellone never needs a prescription to get kratom. And when she does not take it, she does not crave it like she craved heroin. She was shocked when, on August 30, the DEA revealed that it was pursuing an emergency situation scheduling of mitragynine and 7-hydroxymitragynine, the active alkaloids in kratom.

The DEA Takes an Exception to Kratom

Biologically, kratom acts enough like an opioid that DEA considers it a risk to public security. The firm prepared to utilize a regulatory system called emergency situation scheduling to position it in the same restrictive classification as lsd, marijuana, and heroin . This category, Schedule I, is reserved for what the DEA thinks about the most unsafe drugs-- those with no redeeming medical value, and a high potential for abuse.

Prior to they completed the scheduling, something unexpected happened. An advocacy group called the American Kratom Association (yes, AKA) raised $400,000 from its impassioned membership-- impressive for a not-for-profit that typically raises $80,000 a year-- to pay for attorneys and lobbyists , who got Congress on their side.

On September 30, agents both conservative and liberal -- from Orrin Hatch to Bernie Sanders-- penned a letter to the DEA. "Given the long reported history of kratom usage, paired with the public's sentiment that it is a safe alternative to prescription opioids, we think using the regular review process would offer a much-needed discussion among all stakeholders," they wrote.

It worked. The DEA lifted the notification of emergency scheduling, and opened a public remark period until December 1. When was the last time the DEA backed off anything? "This is uncommon," states Gantt Galloway, a Bay Area pharmacologist concentrating on treatments for addicting drugs. When the DEA responded to public protest like this, Galloway could not recall another instance.

They are from: individuals who utilize kratom to eliminate persistent pain or endometriosis or gout; people who utilize kratom to treat depression or wean off opioids or alcohol; people who said it conserved their life. "It doesn't permit you to escape your issues," says Susan Ash, creator of the AKA, who utilized kratom to treat discomfort and get away an dependency to prescription opioids.

That pledge becomes part of the problem. Scientists understand virtually nothing about kratom-- how its compounds work in show, what it can actually deal with, how addictive it may be, what counts as a safe dose. And definitely insufficient to support all the life-altering claims proclaimed in public comments, and by the many kratom users we talked to. In the lack of excellent science and the smallest tip of guideline, Ash and possibly millions of other users are winging it. And should the DEA follow through on its promise to set up kratom, these people will become crooks overnight.

For Ash, that's completely unacceptable. "I desire the future to appear like this is your next coffee," she states. "I 'd like it to be offered in Starbucks. I'm not even joking."

An Herb Wades Into an Opioid Crisis

Kratom is not an opioid-- really, it is in the coffee family-- however its active particles bind to the same neuronal receptors as opioids like heroin, oxycodone, codeine, and morphine . Generally, those drugs provide users a feeling of bliss and dull their discomfort-- that's why David *, a previous boarding school instructor, started using prescription opioids to treat his pain from ski injuries.

When David eventually committed himself to rehab, his physicians weaned him off heroin using suboxone, a combination of two drugs-- buprenorphine, a partial opioid that satiates the body's chemical thirst, and naltrexone, which obstructs any blissful opioid sensations. But suboxone can offer users signs of withdrawal, not to mention a dulled sense of truth. And users like David can still find ways to abuse it. "Dependence on that was various from heroin, and it ended up being easier to take more suboxone to a higher high, or offering it to score heroin again," he states.

As of this writing, though, David has been clean for 18 months-- success that he credits to kratom. Considering that it binds to the very same receptors as opioids, kratom users report similar euphoric and pain-killing impacts, however they're silenced. After other 12 step recovering addicts introduced David to the plant, it assisted him rebuild his life-- he did ultimately lose that boarding school mentor task-- and deal with the physical discomfort that got him hooked on opioids to begin with.

Since it mirrors opioids in other methods, the issue is that kratom is also addicting. Once again, the real science is sparse. David and a number of other users we talked to stated kratom is habit forming, to some degree, though one survey in Southeast https://www.wired.com/2016/11/kratom-bitter-plant-help-opioid-addicts-dea-doesnt-ban Asia found that for individuals utilizing it to kick an opioid addiction, the dependence is far less most likely to interrupt their lives. "When I take kratom, that addictive part of me begins and it ends up being habitual," says Jeffrey *, another former opioid addict. "It does not throw my life out of control, however it bugs me when people say things like, 'it's not more addictive than coffee.' I believe that hinders us making inroads with the regulators."

There is no doubt, however, that kratom is less hazardous than opioids-- even take-home synthetics like suboxone. They do it through respiratory depression-- they slow your breath till you stop breathing totally when opioids kill. Kratom's chemical structure does not appear to produce the same effects. "The 2 main alkaloids in 7-hydroxy, kratom and mitragynine , appear to have a low ceiling for breathing depression," says pharmacologist Jack Henningfield of the Johns Hopkins School of Medicine, who with the consulting company Pinney Associates has actually recommended the AKA on kratom scheduling. "And that's why if you look hard, it's very hard to find deaths attributable purely to kratom."

Notice he stated "purely." In its initial notice of emergency scheduling for kratom, the DEA did connect the drug to 15 deaths between 2014 and 2016. That accounting overlooks the truth that all but one of those people had other substances in their systems. Folks utilizing kratom to wean themselves off opioids may still be taking those opioids.

And some deaths might be attributed to contamination: Because kratom isn't really strictly controlled, bad actors can and do lace the plant with actual opioids, like the very effective artificial opioid fentanyl. Well, we've got a unique kratom product,'" Henningfield says. The concern is whether the DEA's scheduling is the best kind.

Regulative Wranglings

The FDA could help avoid contamination-related deaths by strictly regulating kratom as a supplement, instead of the DEA scheduling it as a drug. "FDA has a lot of authority to actually assist customers understand that exactly what they're buying is exactly what is identified, https://www.drugs.com/illicit/kratom.html and have at least some level of assurance," Henningfield says. "It's not near to the drug standard, but it's better than something that's illicitly marketed."

But the FDA is in fact also pivotal in recommending the DEA on the scheduling of drugs. "The choice to completely arrange any drug is not a DEA unilateral decision," says Steve Bell, a DEA spokesperson. Think about the regulative pathway of suboxone. The FDA approved the drug in 2002, and the Department of Health and Human Services suggested that the DEA put it in Schedule III, which the DEA accepted. This puts the drug in the very same category as Tylenol with codeine: It's readily available for physicians to recommend for narcotic addiction, but is still a controlled compound.

Arrange I, however, is an entirely different rodeo. If the DEA locations kratom here, nobody can touch the stuff. Existing users, should they continue to utilize, will be required to even sketchier sources. And scientists will have a more difficult time learning how kratom works, and supporting, or refuting, the claims users make with tough data. (Consider cannabis, also a Schedule I drug. Due to the fact that getting authorizations to study the drug is an workout in governmental madness.), Science has a lack of information on it.

All that research study costs cash. Which is kratom's dilemma: The DEA wants to arrange the drug due to the fact that they think it may position a danger to public health, but the only method to confirm (or refute) the DEA's worries is with more research-- which will be next to impossible needs to the DEA follow through on its promise to schedule.

Among the couple of researchers studying kratom is the University of Florida's Oliver Grundmann, who is completing up an online study of almost 10,000 users. And the data (preliminary, though Grundmann prepares to release a paper in the coming months) reveals a different profile of kratom users than you 'd get out of an " illegal" recreational drug.

Not rather the party drug market. And the public remarks on the DEA's scheduling notification reflect that population. Many of those folks are utilizing kratom to either wean themselves off prescription opioids or utilize the drug alone to treat pain.

Still, that's self-medication using a product that may be polluted. "The market requires to come together," says Susan Ash of the AKA.

Grundmann states he comprehends the DEA's inspiration. "They do not desire to have another drug out there that might possibly contribute to the already devastating opioid epidemic that some communities are experiencing," he says. "But on the other side, we also need to think about that the 4 to 5 million approximated users of kratom might face a health crisis of their own if kratom becomes arranged.".

Anecdotes and Evidence.

Ariana Campellone takes her kratom with coconut milk and protein powder. She blends, diluting with water to take the swellings out of the mixture. "Coffee offers me a noticeable spike and high, and can feel when I'm coming down," she says.

The DEA's public comment period closes tomorrow. The agency says it will think about those remarks together with the FDA's clinical and medical examination prior to continuing to schedule. The FDA did not respond in time to talk about this story.

However, if the DEA follows through on its previous intent to schedule, Campellone states she'll still continue to utilize kratom. "Just like individuals have continued to utilize cannabis where it's not legal," she states. In practical terms, it means getting ahold of kratom would probably get more pricey and personally dangerous . Those costs, those threats-- those inconveniences-- may not deserve it to some kratom users. Then the not-so-small community of recovering opioid addicts lose something readily available, and possibly rather excellent.

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