#is this the first time someone acknowledged that Tim literally had it good in canon?

[arabian-batboy]

Please check up on your fanon Tim's stans friends who genuinely believe that he's the most oppressed wet kitten in the DC universe, they must be going through hard times after this panel dropped.

[jooniely]

Reading mha fanfics and I gotta say some of yall don't really understand why all might refused midoriya at first and how aizawa would have done the same. I come across too many fics that bash all might for what he said and make aizawa someone who would have accepted midoriya. Let's get this straight:

We are told in the very first line of mha that people aren't created equal. This isn't a story about how you can still make it in a very dangerous field without having powers feel good type of story. It's about unfairness. It's about the reality that there will be things that are too dangerous for you if you don't process certain traits or skills. Going up against ppl with powerful quirks as someone without one is the number 1 way to die or become a victim that then needs saving.

This is what aizawa drills into midoriya's head the first time he meets him. So why would this man tell a quirkless midoriya that he can be a hero? He's realistic and blunt. He would tell him that he wouldn't get very far. He would have said the same thing all might said. All might even tells midoriya that there are other ways to be heroes and he isn't wrong!

After the sludge villain incident, all might changes his mind because he says a hero's soul in midoriya. Aizawa? He would be wary. He would also see that midoriya has a hero's heart but you know what happens in the incident? He helps bakugo and becomes someone who also needs to be saved. This is the exact thing aizawa warns midoriya about. He would acknowledge that izuku is a hero but reckless. He might even admit that izuku is someone who will continue getting intro trouble by throwing himself into fights to help people but recognize that it would get him killed. Would he then offer training to him? Idk. Realistically? Probably not but maybe he would have a word with inko about her sons recklessness.

I also see inko being made to look bad by not encouraging izuku's dream. What mother would encourage her child's dangerous dream?? Izuku is already a target for being quirkless, imagine he goes up against literal villains? The fact that she wanted to pull him from UA is realistic and understandable. This is her child who has had countless near death experiences, who's now a target!

All that to say is that horikoshi writes his adults as responsible (to a degree) yet fanon makes them irresponsible. None of these 3 in good conscience would have sent izuku to his guaranteed death. And I need yall to understand this cuz not all of you tag your inko or all might bashing in ur fics and too many of yall get aizawa wrong.

Also last thing I wanna mention is that I know there are fics where izuku becomes a quirkless hero. Those are fun! And I would understand his discontent against the adults in his life for not supporting him but fans need to understand it and adults izuku would def understand it given, like I said, his first words are: not everyone is created equal. So make your batman/fanon tim drake type midoriya izuku fics but keep canon characterizations in mind or please please tag properly 🙏

[aalghul]

so hard to be both a jason and tim stan in this economy... can't look at any fan content about the both of them because it's literally all wildly out of character and/or demonizes jason or damian

RIGHT. I say I love Tim and then never talk about him because, honestly, I’m not willing to put up with whatever a big portion of his fan base is. I don’t need repeat what we all know about fanon Tim being the most annoying thing ever, but it genuinely makes me not want to talk about Tim. Every Robin has had insecurities about their position and especially as someone worth Batman’s time (including Dick, very prominently). Tim was independent by choice, not because he was forced out of the family at any point. The fact is that he was not Bruce’s son for the longest time and he was okay with that; in fact, he loved his dad very much and didn’t want Bruce in his place at first. Which is another point: Tim’s parents. People are free to project as they like and I’m not going to go telling anyone off for making them horrible parents, but it’s not canon. They were neglectful and definitely bot good parents, and Jack’s recovery did bring issues from him, but their love for him wasn’t questioned. I don’t mind portrayal of his parents being cruel parents that don’t love him, I guess, it’s not the worst; it’s just boring and simplifies his relationship with them. This does not mix well with any character.

Fanon Tim always comes at the expense of every other character involved: Kon is an idiot, Jason is a hardheaded brute, Cass is Tim’s bodyguard with no other purpose, Dick is a bad big brother that chose Damian over him, and Damian…God. He is almost always the brat that needs to be put in his place for being heartless and arrogantly thinking he’s Tim’s superior, etc. and it’s like, do you never get bored? Yes, it’s incorrect characterization, but moreover, are these people not tired of acting like this 10 year old ruined their fave’s life? I see it more with Damian, but it definitely does happen with Jason too, where he’s this evil, failure Robin but good thing Tim’s better and everyone actually likes Tim. Or maybe that’s just actual, garbage canon I’m remembering.

I’ve read quite a few Titan’s Tower AUs, so I’m definitely not judging here but I really do loathe the idea that Jason walked in ready to kill a kid on Talia’s word like the idiot he is. Firstly, Talia did not set Jason off on anyone, she only ever gave him the resources to do what he wanted. Leave her out of your white boy messes. Secondly, Tim would not be alive if Jason was there to kill him at all. It’s fairly simple to tell that’s not Jason’s intent if you just read the actual TT issue. Further, if Jason really were here to kill this kid, why would a few tears stop him? Oh, right. Lazarus pit. Because the evil Talia didn’t teach him how to control that and actually all of Jason’s actions are because of it. And they lived happily ever after. Jason also didn’t just walk in here unaware that Tim isn’t adopted, his parents travel a lot etc. He did his homework and knew everything about Tim before he walked in. He just flat out did not believe that Tim had made himself Robin, rather than Bruce just having him ready as an option after Jason died. The whole fight being acknowledged annoys me, and I know this one isn’t fair because it’s canon, because it’s the beginning of Jason’s manchildification, but also because Jason would never hurt a kid just to hurt them. His duel with Mia is proof of that.

Speaking of Jason and kids, let me bring this back to the topic of Damian being demonized. It’s always “I came back to the family to tell you guys that you all suck for being mean to Timmy” when (A) no one is doing that (B) Jason is not about to yell at an actual child for Tim. He’s also not going to yell at Dick for being an awful big brother because he *checks notes* rightfully told Tim he was in a mentally unwell state and passed his mantle on to the 10 year old that just lost the father he had spent his entire life dreaming of meeting.

[bigskydreaming]

Doing some writing today off and on between errands and work, and jumping around various Kings of the Sky installments, specifically Dick, Jason and Cass stuff, so probably gonna post snippets from a bunch of them as I go. 

(Kings of the Sky is an AU that goes canon divergent from the point of Jason calling Dick for advice for dealing with Bruce after the Garzonas case and where things end up going dramatically different from that point on. Including Jason not dying, being part of his own lineup of Titans between Dick and Tim’s, Dick being adopted not long after the Church of Blood incident, Cass being the third Wayne kid to be taken in and adopted and with Tim and Duke being next and then Damian coming along later once they find out about him. This is basically my ‘the family’s alright’ AU with largely ‘Good Dad Bruce’ except for Dick and then Jason yelling some sense into him about the other, respectively, in the first two installments, just FYI).

Anyway, this bit is from a story called “In Their Shadows Grow Trees Of Good and Evil,” set about a year after Cass has been adopted, when she and Jason are both sixteen and Dick’s twenty-one. Also just FYI, because canon has never been specific about what ways Cass is neurodivergent due to the comic-book style ‘rewiring’ of her brain so that she could learn to speak later in life, I tend to go with her being dyslexic and having aphasia. She sticks exclusively to sign language and being a silent presence in her costumed personas, so that there’s no chance of people connecting the dots between Black Bat and Cassandra Wayne, as she mostly speaks verbally in her civilian persona and doesn’t hide her aphasia. The reason there’s not likely to be any obvious signs of aphasia in the snippets of her I post is because I wait until I complete something to choose words at random to replace with aphasia-born mixups, so its more realistic and I’m not gearing her dialogue towards deliberately placed moments. Just in case you were wondering.

In Their Shadows Grow Trees of Good and Evil

“Hey Todd,” sneered an exquisitely obnoxious voice. “Why’s your sister so fucking weird?”

Jason sighed the sigh of a soul a mere century into its eternity of damnation as he rose from the lunch table he’d been studying at and crammed the rest of his books into his backpack. Then he pasted a cheerfully bland smile on his face and turned around, geared for academia warfare (teenage prep school edition).

“Hey Craig,” he said brightly. “Why’d you come out of the womb so ugly your parents had to tie a piece of steak around your neck just to get the family dog to go near you? Mysteries abound.”

The advancing junior slowed a step, momentarily rocked by his truly impressive return volley. The grimace Craig’s already gargoyle-esque features twisted into made his face even more unpleasant to look at than usual, which was quite the feat. Jason would have applauded if just looking at it hadn’t already turned him to stone.

But the bargain basement basilisk kept on towards him rather than turn tail and skulk off to pop his emotional blisters, so Jason sighed a sequel to his first one. Looked like it was one of those days where Craig felt up to powering through. Guess someone had eaten their self-esteem Wheaties that morning. Joy.

“You think you’re pretty hot shit, don’t you, Todd?”

Jason shrugged. “I mean, to be honest I kinda have a one track mind, so right now I’m mostly just thinking about punching you in your mistake.”

“My what?”

“Your face,” Jason elaborated with exaggerated patience.

“Huh?”

“Oh my god, I’m saying your face is a mistake. See, its not as fun when I have to stop and explain it to you. Ugh, you ruin everything.”

He neatly sidestepped the older boy as R2-Dumbass stayed frozen, smoke coming off of his internal CPU while trying to catch up. For a second Jason thought he was home free, but then he remembered the universe fucking hated him so haha, sucks to suck. Also, a small crowd had gathered to witness the verbal jousting match, and nothing invigorated an asshole like Craig more than an audience of like-minded peers. So there was that too.

“Whatever. Laugh it up all you want, you little shit,” the junior rallied. “But just remember, mocking your betters will never change the fact that you were born street trash and you’ll be street trash until the day you die.”

Honestly? Not his best effort. Jason almost felt bad using any of his good material. Seemed like overkill at this point. But he did have a strict Scorched Earth policy to maintain, so.....

“Yeah but my dad could buy out and ruin your dad so that means I still win, right?”

He smirked as the barb landed and Craig’s face set into a sunset vista of strangled purple and furious red. Bam. Direct hit.

“Listen, you - “

“Oh for fuck’s sake, it was rhetorical,” Jason interrupted. “I don’t actually care what you think even a little bit. Nobody does. You don’t matter. Please go be irrelevant elsewhere, you’re fucking dismissed, you loser.”

“Speak for yourself, charity case.” Oh goodie, Craig’s backup singers had finally arrived. Now if only he could remember to care enough to learn their names in the first place. Seriously, who told the extras they could have lines? “All the jokes in the world can’t change who and what you are.”

Jason shrugged and continued nonchalantly up the hill to where his sister was standing with arms crossed, staring down at something on the other side.

“True genius is never appreciated in its own time,” he tossed back over his shoulder. “I’m sure I’ll be immortalized in song eventually.”

The mob of morons deigned to let him go without further incident. Though he suspected that had less to do with his scathing wit and more to do with him being headed towards Cass. She was immaculately presented as always, wearing the Gotham Academy uniform like she was born to it despite hating its uncomfortable stiffness every bit as much as he did. But that was just Cass for you. 

For all that she still struggled at times to engage verbally or speak up in social settings, her mastery of body language remained without peer. She could chameleon-camouflage her way into matching poise and posture with anyone - a skill that had allowed her to walk into school on her very first day with her head held high as though she owned everything in her sight. Exuding so much Queen Bee Intimidation Factor even the other hive queens were afraid to approach her  themselves. Sending forth their drones to try and woo her into an alliance, only to see her remain oh-so-casually above it all, a slightly contemptuous smile adorning her lips.

Basically, she scared the shit out of their classmates without them having anywhere close to a true understanding of why, and Jason was outrageously jealous. Rude. Unfair. Why did his siblings always get all the cool toys when all he had was his rakish charm, scintillating intellect and debonair.....nah, who was he kidding. He was fucking awesome. 

“Sup, sis,” he said, cresting the hill to stand beside Cass. “Just FYI, I just took a popularity bullet for you, which means you owe me your dessert tonight. Its a family rule that’s totally a real thing and definitely not something I just made up right now because Alf is making chocolate soufflé.”

She made no acknowledgment and remained stock still, a Colossus at Rhodes peering down into the shifting shadows of the parking lot below.

He peered down as well, though with absolutely no idea what they were looking at. Solidarity, yo.

“So are we staring fixedly at anything in particular, or should I just pick my own spot and commit?”

His humor was totally wasted on her as always. Instead of laughing and telling him what a lovable goof he was, she just inclined her head in the direction of a blonde girl where she was standing next to the driver’s side door of a Mercedes-Benz, dictating final commandments to her peons before departing. Well, probably. Jason was just guessing, based on his own body language reads, and like, general disdain for literally everyone at this school that wasn’t related to him.

He made a face. An extra special one reserved just for this classmate in particular. “Ugh, Madison Dunleavy? She’s the worst.”

Cass raised a cool eyebrow. “I thought Craig Hendricks was the worst.”

“He is. They’re both the worst. Its a hotly contested position here at Gotham Academy.”

She rolled her eyes and nodded back down at the Queen of Air and Darkness. “So. You know her?”

“Nope,” Jason said. “Come to think of it, I’ve actually never seen her in my life. No idea who that is. Can’t help you, sorry. Shall we go home?”

The Eyebrow of Inquisition speared him with clear intent. Who the fuck needed words when you could pack the Encyclopedia Britannica into a single facial expression?

Jason sighed gustily. 

“I had a slight altercation with her freshman year that led to her declaring her undying enmity for me until the end of time. The word nemesis may or may not have been thrown around once or twice. I can’t recall.”

The Eyebrow of Inquisition lowered nary an inch. Ugh, she wanted more? Why did everyone in his family hate privacy, with the obvious exclusion of himself when snooping through Cass and Dick’s rooms for blackmail material, which was actually intel-gathering and thus another matter entirely.

“Okay so basically what happened was my first week here I overheard her talking shit about me and not even twenty minutes later she was pretending to kiss my ass in homeroom, like probably because of Bruce, y’know? So I just busted out laughing and told her to fuck off and die and she has inexplicably loathed me ever since.”

Avoiding further Eyebrow Inquisition-ing, he made a show of peering around aimlessly. When the silence extended and it was clear Cass was absolutely not going to break first, Jason waved a hand in dismissal and took to peering oh so casually at his fingernails. "I suppose I was less tactful back in those days.”

He chanced a look up, finally, and saw his sister’s eyebrow had somehow managed to mighty morphin power ranger its way into a configuration evoking both judgment and disbelief, with the latter perhaps aimed at the idea he was significantly differing in the tact department these days either.

“I don’t love the implications your face is making right now,” he told her.

She ignored him, because of course she did. 

“Does she know Dick?” She asked instead. Jason shrugged.

“I mean, maybe? She’s probably seen him around at one of those stupid galas we have to go to, and actually I think maybe she has an older brother who was either in Dick’s grade or like, one above or below it? I don’t know.”

Now both eyebrows were doing the dance of disbelief. Okay, so maybe that was poor situational awareness on his part, since it wasn’t like Gotham Academy was a big school with a ton of other kids and also he’d only been in the same class as Madison for like over two whole years, but whatever. There were extingent circumstances.

“Look, she’s a total snob who’s always looked down on me and in return I willfully ignore both her existence and that of everyone and everything even tangentially related to her. Its called equality, Cass.”

She pursed her lips and went back to the peering, because of course in the mind of Cass it made total sense that the Grand Inquisition didn’t need to be followed up by any explanation on her part, what the hell. Like was he supposed to have inferred it?

“What’s this all about anyway?”

“I heard her talking about Dick earlier,” she said without peeling her eyes away from her personal recon mission. “I don’t know what she said though, I just heard her say Grayson, and then I was busy looking at what her body was saying. I know it was about Dick because she shut down when she saw me. And I didn’t like the way she....looked....before that happened. The way she was talking. It was.....”

Jason frowned but held back any follow-up questions while he waited - with total patience because he wasn’t an absolute cad, thank you very much - for his sister to find the word she was hunting for. It was a major source of frustration for her, that whatever neural map her brain followed put body language and spoken language in totally different regions of her brain, separated by a fairly great divide. Meaning she usually had to make a conscious choice to focus on body language or conventional languages - whether verbal or sign. But it tended to be one or the other; she’d yet to master taking in and comprehending both forms of ‘language’ at the same time. And none of them had quite figured out how to convince her that she wasn’t actually missing anything when she chose to focus on one specific form of communication - that she was still observing far more than most people ever would.

“Proprietary,” Cass settled on at last. She nodded her satisfaction with her choice of word, and Jason waited a whole two point five seconds before sticking  his whole foot in his mouth.

“Proprietary?” He asked with a scrunched nose as he weighed that for possible context and implications. “You sure?”

She glared. He winced. It was a whole thing.

“Yeah, I know, sorry, sorry, I heard it the second it was out of my mouth. We don’t actually have to experiment with the legitimacy of if looks could kill.”

Cass rolled her eyes, but eh. That could’ve gone worse.

Jason swiftly redirected attention anyway. Discretion is the better part of valor, after all.

“So. The Queen of Air and Darkness was talking about our big bro, and her mood was.....proprietary, huh?” He recapped while digesting the info like a boss. “Well. Definitely not loving that, I gotta say. Hold please.”

Pulling out his phone and pulling up his most recent texts, he began typing furiously.

“What are you doing?” Cass asked.

“Texting Tom,” he replied, because duh. Hah, now it was his chance to have the answers that should be patently obvious and thus make with the ‘are you kidding me’ when she asked obvious questions she should know the answer to! How do you like them apples, sis?

“Why are you texting your boyfriend right now?”

Jason rolled his eyes, because fair is fair, but never ceased texting for a moment. Time was of the essence here, probably. Well, maybe. Okay probably not. But it’d still been like half an hour since he and Tom had last texted and that’s a very fucking long time in teenage years.

“To be our getaway driver tonight, obviously.”

She stared at him. He didn’t look up, but he could feel it anyway. He was very intuitive like that.

“What?”

Jason heaved another sigh, one keyed to tones of ‘oh my god, do I really have to spell this out,” exasperation. He was just racking up the bonus points here. It was really too bad this wasn’t an actual competition he could actually win and this was all just pettiness taking place wholly in his own head. Lame. 

“Well, clearly we now have to go snoop in Madison’s house aka lair to see if its actually a house or a full on lair. Because she’s either a creeper or like, legit evil, and its important to know which one before we proceed, because obviously we can only bust her for being a weird creeper about our brother as Jason and Cass, whereas if she’s legit evil, that’s gotta go down as Robin and Black Bat. I’ll handle the snooping, you’ll take look-out, but we still need a wheelman and that’s why I’m texting Tom. This is all very mission-oriented, okay. I’m a professional.”

“Right,” she affirmed, while sounding anything but convinced. “Why don’t we just tell Bruce?”

Without looking up or breaking stride, he said: “I’m going to give you til I finish typing this sentence to figure out what was wrong with what you just said. Remember that we are talking about hypothetical danger to our brother, and also Bruce’s idea of a proportionate response to any of his children being in even hypothetical danger. And also our brother’s idea of a proportionate response to Bruce’s idea of a proportionate response. Look, you’re still new so I’m gonna need you to just trust me on this one. Its gonna be a no on telling Bruce without further intel.”

Cass said nothing in response to that, which meant that she was conceding the point and recognized the wisdom of his words. Or maybe that she was just gonna go ahead and do what she wanted anyway and just wasn’t bothering to fight about it, but it was probably that first thing.

“Well you better not just make out with your boyfriend all night,” is what she said at last, and that got his attention reeeeeal quick like.

“Umm. Wow. Okay. So, first off, you’re not the boss of me and who I make out with and when, so jot that down. And second, now I’m definitely going to make out with my boyfriend extra hard, with the exception of when we are actually on our recon mission because as previously established, I am a professional. And also, again, you’re not the boss of me.”

Jason ignored her Eye Roll With Extra Emphasis, and instead just held up his phone to Text With Extra Emphasis, as he read along with what he was typing.

“By the way babe, we have to make out extra hard tonight,” he said, tongue sticking out of the corner of his mouth while he dragged out his dictation with the kind of focus that usually led to Bruce asking why he couldn’t apply as much intensity to training as he did to pettiness. “Cass has suddenly decided she can dictate terms to me and I need to shut that shit down ASAP, so thank you in advance for your assistance in this matter. Smoochies and other gay stuff to the best boyfriend ever.”

Jason frowned as a response pinged back seconds later. 

TheCatsMeow: ....the things I put up with for the sake of your weird family dynamics.

TheOnlyRobinThatRocks: Yeah, yeah. You’re a saint among were-panthers. Must you mock? Why can’t you just tell me I’m pretty instead?

TheCatsMeow: Sorry. Let me try again. OMG you’re so pretty Jase how did I get so lucky xoxo.

TheOnlyRobinThatRocks: No. Its too late. It feels forced and unbelievable now. You’ve ruined it forever.

TheCatsMeow: Got it. From now on I will only tell you that you’re repulsive and hideous.

TheOnlyRobinThatRocks: I’m breaking up with you.

TheCatsMeow: But after I help you with your mission tonight.

TheOnlyRobinThatRocks: Obvsly. I’m a professional. Why do people keep forgetting this?

TheCatsMeow: And also the making out to spite your sister.

TheOnlyRobinThatRocks: Yeah we should do that first too. I mean we already penciled it in.

[raviposting]

Okay so I��ve seen a lot of conflicting responses to Buddie this episode, from it being clear to people that they’re getting together, to thinking the writers have unintentionally messed things up to thinking it’s purely queerbait.

And I get the different responses, I do - tbh I’m somehow in two camps, where I simultaneously believe it’s a slowburn but I also think it’s bait. And those are two very different opinions to have and it got me thinking about why we have these different responses as fans to the possibility of a queer ship (namely two men who would presumably be bi/pan) being canon. 

While people talk about how it’s just people wanting two characters to kiss or entitled fans - sure, that’s existent in every fandom, but I think there’s also a very real fear from queer fans who don’t want to get their hopes up and I d on’t love how the conversation has shifted to calling queer fans stupid for having hope, so I kind of wanted to break it down into 3 aspects that I’ve noticed: 

How writers portray bi characters and why that makes fans hesitant to have hope

What queerbait actually means as a concept

How much “slowburn” has changed in procedurals

1. How writers portray bi characters

Something I’ve thought about a lot are the bi characters I’ve seen on TV - Darryl (CEG), Sara Lance (Arrow), Lucifer (Lucifer), just to name a few. These are great characters imo and I think you’d have a fun time watching but a thing to note is that all these characters were established as bi within the first season of their respective shows and they all fairly quickly fell into a clear romantic ship as well (with the exception of Sara as she spanned multiple shows). It may have taken time for them to say the word bisexual, but it was still clear these characters were queer fairly quickly on. You could maybe argue that Lucifer was a slowburn, but then (while it does not take away from him being bi/pan so do not use this as an excuse to be shitty about him) it’s a m/f ship which is still not the point of my post, to find a m/m or f/f ship that has that same treatment.

Some writers have done it - like for Valencia in CEG, or Petra in JTV - when they saw that fans read them this way, but trying to find those characters were few and far between, and when I looked at popular queerbait ships (whether or not they actually are queerbait) it’s usually ships where the characters are largely viewed as bisexual. A lot of times this also comes with pushback from both straight and to be frank, other queer fans as well. Straight fans don’t always see the signs that queer fans do, so to them a queer character who hasn’t been explicitly clear from the start comes out of nowhere. And what I’ve seen from certain queer fans are concerns that people aren’t appreciating the canon queer characters in a show - and I think there is a conversation to be had about that, but I don’t think the response should also be about then demanding less representation for people either. 

If we go back to 911, people talk a lot about how it has canon queer characters, which it definitely does - Michael, Hen, Josh, Karen, and David are all canonically gay/lesbian and that’s awesome, and we absolutely should talk about fans (white fans in particular) ignoring these characters. It also does not change the fact that none of these characters are bisexual and that is the representation people are looking for. Both of these things are true - these characters are often under appreciated in canon AND people deserve bisexual representation. They don’t contradict each other and to act like one negates the other does a huge disservice.

And even if a character was made bisexual in the canon text we don’t get that slowburn. This may be true for things like Leverage, or LOK, but there’s also a real fact of censorship that affected these shows and the fact that general audiences may not understand the queer text tjat the writers intended. It doesn’t make the writing any less wonderful or the ships any less poignant or beautiful or important, and there’s ofc shows like She Ra that made this more obvious (or the.....mess that was Supernatural that made it. Half true?) but these are still real things that should be acknowledged on why people are so hesitant to call it slowburn - because it’s something most queer fans haven’t SEEN DONE, because m/f ships will get that care for slowburn when it’s done but it’s not done for m/m or f/f ships in that same capacity.

2. What queerbait is

This one’s fun because I don’t think many people understand what it is, but queerbait is very dependent on the intentions of the writers/creators/etc. - which tbh can be hard to gauge, because a genuine intention that ended up not happening or someone baiting fans or someone trying to support all ships and not be rude all have very different intentions but to a fan who only sees bits and pieces of this person on social media, it can be hard to gauge.

Honestly with how much the 4th wall gets broken because of social media now I’d personally say we’ve probably moved into a different definition of queerbait - unintentional vs intentional - because we’re at a point where a show knows what ships are popular and at what level of excitement fans are for it - but that being said, there’s still a clear spectrum of intent. And imo? I don’t think 911 has that intent of queerbait - whether it’s a slowburn or they have a different vision for buddie that I (probably) won’t agree with remains to be seen, but this show usually treats its storylines with care. Are they perfect at it? No, definitely not, I definitely think that they’ve dropped the ball a few times (especially with just how many characters they have lmao), but they also clearly do their storylines with earnest and with genuine care for these characters.

Is 911 getting them together? I want to say yes. I don’t think this was always the plan, just something that they decided along the way, but I also don’t think that changes anything about the ship. A lot of people point to Tim Minear being vague about the ship, or the actors and their interpretations, but 1. We have no idea what they’ve been told about Buddie moving forward and 2. No show runner is going to spoil their show that much. 911 may be keeping quiet because they have a different plan for buddie, sure, but also maybe because they’re still figuring out how exactly they want to do this and/or they want to make this slowburn and don’t want to give it away.

3. Slowburn in procedurals

I feel like this is something that procedurals have started shying away from, but slowburns used to be very common - Bones, Castle, their ships didn’t get together for literal years, but that’s just not something that many shows do nowadays, even for m/f ships. Even things like Deckerstar will have the characters get together after ~3 seasons and explore the relationship onwards, whereas a few years ago, y ou’d pr obably be watching a sh ow and it’d take them 7 seasons to get together. My assumption for this is that shows are afraid  of getting canceled, but there’s been a pretty big shift in getting a couple together after say, 6 seasons to now getting them together about halfway through the show. I don’t think either one is bad or good - in good writers’ hands, either can be amazing - but that shift has made it so that a lot of younger fans in particular, I think, don’t fully recognize slowburn when they see it.

911 as a show tends to run pretty fast - it kind of has to with its depth of characters they have - but when they do have slower running storylines they really do make use of that as well. Bobby’s addiction is something that’s always going to be present in his character, May’s suicide attempt was brought up again front and center after 3 seasons, even Chim’s dynamic with the Lees was brought up again and it was reinforced again that they’re his family. There are certain storylines that have to be continuous and aren’t a one and done type of thing, and that includes Buck and Eddie, especially if you want to establish them as queer to a general audience who doesn’t think about these things.

And honestly, despite my fears, I think they are laying groundwork there. We have Buck learning to be more confident in his relationships, we have Eddie ready to date and learning to follow his own heart, we have Buck and Eddie both establishing that Buck is family and will always be there for Christopher. These are pretty big steps to do for a ship and we’ll obviously have to see how the show goes forward but they’ve already insinuated Eddie and Ana are breaking up, I’m sure Taylor and Buck may last a season and be over, but we do have to see what this next season brings. Do I think they’d say this? No, definitely not.

tl;dr: 

911 is a show with good viewership, but there’s always a possibility they can’t continue with their season and then their promises would feel like a lie. Or they may still be hammering out the details as this season hasn’t been written. Or they may just simply not want to spoil their show,  or they don’t want people criticizing a story before it’s finished, all of these could be reasons. The showrunners, writers, actors, ultimately they owe nothing to us as a fandom to potentially spoil their series, or do something, change it or their schedule for it, and get accused of bait. 

But it also doesn’t change why fans are wary of this storyline either, and I wish people would have more nuance and compassion for fans who are worried about queerbait (whether they think it’s not queerbait and dislike people worrying about it or if they do and are calling people idiots for believing it). There’s a lot of reasons why fans are wary and don’t want to have hope, and it’s not necessarily about 911 specifically as it is a pattern of writing seen in other pieces that have fans worried. These things can all coexist and I wish we as fandom in general could acknowledge that, because pretending that they don’t and criticizing each other/people’s intentions or knowledge when they have certain expectations also doesn’t do much to help.

[cardentist]

this isn’t a proper discourse post, I Agree with a lot of what the op said but there’s specific things about it that get under my skin in a way that makes me want to talk about it, but I don’t want to engage with that post both because I don’t want to speak over the point that’s being made and frankly because I don’t want to be misinterpreted because of the point that’s being made in it.

so for context, I’ll just say that it was a long post about how a lack of engagement with women characters in fandom spaces is tied to misogyny. just be aware that I’m responding to something specific and not criticisms of this in general. (feel free to dm me if you want to see the post for yourself)

the rest of this is going to be rambly and a bit unfocused, so I want to get this out the door right at the top: it is not actually someone’s moral obligation to engage with or create fan content. all other points aside, what this amounts to is labeling people as bigoted for either not creating or engaging with content that you want to see, and while the individual may or may not be a bigot it’s not actually anyone’s job to tailor their fandom experience to cater to you. 

fandom is not activism. it’s not Wrong to point out that a lack of content about women in fandom is likely indicative of the influence of our misogynistic society. and suggesting that people examine their internalized biases isn’t just fine, it’s something that everyone should be doing all the time. but saying that it is literally someone’s “responsibility” to “make an effort” by consuming content about women or they’re bigoted is presenting the consumption of fan content as a moral litmus test that you pass and fail not by how you engage with content but by not engaging with all of the Correct content. 

judging people’s morality based on what characters they read meta for or look at fanart for is, a mistake. it Can Be Indicative of internalized biases but it is not, in and of itself, a moral failing that has to be corrected.

if you want more content to be created about women in fandom then you do it by spreading content about women in fandom, not by guilting people into engaging with it by saying that they’re bigots if they don’t. you encourage creation Through creation.

okay, now to address what Mainly set me off to inspire this post.

this post specifically went out of it’s way to present misogyny as the only answer for why this problem exists in fandom spaces. and while I absolutely agree that it’s a Factor, they left absolutely no room for nuance which included debunking “common excuses.” which, as you can probably guess, contained the things that ticked me off.

first off, you can’t judge that someone is disconnected from women in general based on their fandom consumption because the sum total of their being is not available on tumblr. 

people don’t always bear their souls in fandom spaces. just because they don’t actively post about a character or Characters doesn’t mean that they see them as lesser or that they don’t think about them. the idea that you can tell what a person’s moral beliefs are not based on what they’ve said or done but based on whether they engage with specific characters in a specific way in a specific space can Only work on the assumption that they engage with that space in a way that expresses the entirety of who they are or even their engagement with that specific media.

what I engage with on ao3 is different from what I engage with on tumblr, youtube, twitter, my friend’s dms, and my own head. people are going to engage with social media and fandom spaces specifically differently for different reasons. you can’t assume what the other parts of their lives look like based on this alone. 

second off, there can be other factors at play that influence people’s specific engagement with a fandom.

they specifically brought up the magnus archives as an example of a show with well written women. which while absolutely true, does Not mean that misogyny is the only option for why people wouldn’t engage with content about them as often. for me personally? a lot of fan content is soured because of how it presents jon. I relate to him very heavily as a neurodivergent and traumatized person, and he faces a Lot of victim blaming and dehumanization in the writing. sasha and martin are more or less the only main characters that Aren’t guilty of this, and sasha was out of the picture after season 1.

while this affects my enjoyment of fan content for these characters To Some Extent on it’s own (I love georgie, I love her a lot, but I can’t forget that she looked at someone and told them that they were better off dead because they couldn’t “choose” to not be abused), the bigger issue is fan content that Specifically doesn’t address the victim blaming and ableism as what it is, even presenting it as just Correct. 

this isn’t exclusive to the women in the show by any means, this is exactly why I avoid a lot of content about tim, but it affects a lot of the women who are main characters. that isn’t the Only reason, there’s more casual ableism and things that tear him down for other reasons (the prevalent theory that elias passed up on sasha because he’s afraid of how she’s More Competent In Jon In Every Single way. which comes with the unfortunate implications of jon being responsible for his own trauma because he just wasn’t competent enough to avoid it) but that’s the main one that squicks me out.

of course not all fan content does this, and I Do engage with content about these characters, but sometimes it’s easier to just stick with content that centers on my comfort character because it’s more likely to look at his character with the nuance required to see that it is victim blaming and ableism. 

it’s not enough to say that the characters are well rounded or well written and conclude that if someone isn’t consuming or creating content about them then it has to be due to misogyny and nothing else.

there’s also just like, the Obvious answer. two most prominent characters are two men that are in a canonical gay relationship, which draws in queer men/masc people on it’s own but the centering of their othering and trauma Particularly draws in traumatized queer people that are starved for content. georgie and melanie are both fleshed out characters in and of themselves, but their relationship with each other doesn’t have nearly as much direct screen time. and daisy and basira have a lot more screen time together and about each other, but their relationship is very intentionally non-canon because of its role as a commentary on cop pack mentality.

people are More Likely to create content for the more prominent relationship in the show and be drawn into the fandom through that relationship in the first place. I have no doubt that there Are misogynistic fans of the show, but focusing on the relationship and the characters that make you happy isn’t and indication that you’re one of them.

which brings us to the big one, the one that sparked me into writing this in the first place (and the last that I have time for if I’m being honest). the “common excuses” section in general is, extremely dismissive obviously but there’s only one section that genuinely upsets me. 

without copying and pasting what they said directly, it essentially boils down to this: while they recognize that gay and trans men are “allowed” to relate to men, they’re still Men which makes them misogynistic. Rather than acknowledge Why gay and trans men would engage with fan-content specifically that caters to them they present it as a given that it’s 100% due to misogyny anyways. they present queer men engaging with content about themselves as them treating women like they’re “unworthy of attention,” calling it a “patriarchal tendency” that they have to unlearn.

being gay and trans does not mean that you’re immune to misogyny, being a woman doesn’t even mean that you’re immune to misogyny, but that’s engaging in bad faith in a way that really puts a bad taste in my mouth. 

queer men aren’t just like, Special Men that have Extra Bonus Reasons to be relate to boys, they’re people who are more likely to Need fandom spaces to explore facets of themselves. and while you can Relate to any character, it feels good to be able to explore those aspect with characters that resemble you or how you see yourself.

when I first started actively seeking out fandom spaces in middle school I engaged with content about queer men more or less exclusively. at this point I had no concept of what trans people were, and wouldn’t begin openly considering that I might be a trans person until high school. I knew that I’d be happier as a gay man before I knew I could be a gay man, and that’s affected my relationship with fandom forever. 

I engage with most things pretty casually, reblogging meta and joke posts when I see them, but what I go out of my way to engage with is largely an expression of my gender identity and sexuality. I project myself onto a comfort character and then I Consume content for them because that was how I was able to express myself before I knew that I needed to. it’s not that girl characters aren’t “worthy” of me relating to them, it’s that I specifically go to certain fandom spaces to express and work through my gender and sexuality. that’s what I use those fandom spaces For.

I imagine that I’ll need this crutch less when I’m allowed to transition and if I ever find a relationship situation that works out for me. but also like, why should I? it’s not actually hurting anyone for me to explore my gender and sexuality through fanfic until the end of time. nor does it hurt anyone for me to focus on my comfort characters. 

fandom is personal comfort and entertainment, not a moral obligation. people absolutely should engage with women in media and real life with more nuance and energy than they do, but fandom spaces are not the place to police or judge that. 

[acefrogmonarch]

HC pt. 2

Some of these might have been on the other HC but if it is, don't worry there's is a lot of new ones.

Take this as canon to my story. Season 3 in MLB. It didn't happen but I'll acknowledge some things and change a lot. Like a lot.

Them as vines!

The only time Tim has used bruces money was to buy a hoverboard to go around the house saying whatever they had for lunch or dinner. In the simplest form of that meal.

"We are having Chestnut bisque for dinner." Tim is the first one to know and he gets to his hoverboard and gets a ladle. "We got Soup!" His hand has a motion of scoping up some soup as he rides.

Damian recording as Todd drives, singing, and blasting white girl music.

Dick was going to surprise Damian by taking him out of school for the day, his phone was already in his hand because he didn’t tell him before. He spotted Damian, just in time to see him throw Jon against the lockers.

Tim has a set of keywords that activate the law and order sound. Any speaker around him is put up in the highest setting and blast it through the air.

Ace doesn’t let Tim touch anything Damian has. For one week Tim hasn’t touched the bat computer. He’ll never forgive Ace.

Ace accidentally biting bruce’s dick. It was the first dinner with Marinette and they all wanted to make a good impression. They were all eating dinner and Bruce, mid-bite just makes a noise.

Marinette looks over and he’s looking at Damian, who was also mid-bite. "Dog.” It’s all he says, its chaos after that.

The boys scramble to look under the table. After they do, they can’t stop laughing and Marinette doesn’t move from her spot.

Okay, I want to clear this up for my self, Marinette found out that Damian was robin on accident.

Marinette and Damian didn't interact at all but he has been seen outside of school waiting for somebody. Lila had this 'grand idea' to set them up together. Alya, the 'master' setup. Dragged a delirious Marinette to Chloe's hotel.

"Come on Mari, it's a sleepover!" Marinette couldn't handle this. Just before she had texted Adrien that she was going to Chloe's place for a "sleepover". But Mari didn't believe it. It was 2300 and her 'bedtime' they knew not to bother her. She already took her medicine and it was kicking in.

Alya opened the door and shoved Marinette in, stumbling back, she fell on her butt. Looking around she saw the bathroom light on, but immediately noticed how small it was to Chloe's usual room.

Stumbling to look at her she couldn't help but drag to the bathroom. Opening the sewing kit in there and sticking a needle in her inner thigh. She woke up and carried it around.

"What did you do this time Lila." Groaning as she got up, she limped out to the foyer in time to hear someone open the window.

Turning around She found Robin, mask in hand to be Damian. Damian, on the other hand, didn't understand how this could happen. He was supposed to be alone in his hotel room. Why was Marinette here? It doesn't matter gotta 'fix' this.

At first, Damian attacked her to keep her silent but once she attacked back, they were at a stalemate.

They kept up with each other for hours.

Marinette slipped into the night, leaving him as people knocked on his door. For months, they didn't speak, nor did they meet up as their alter-egos.

Mari actively went out of her way to ignore him. She was furious at him and Damian couldn't care less about her feelings, only mad that he couldn't threaten her to keep his identity secret.

It wasn't until Nightwing talked to Mari. It wasn't until Chat Noir went to fetch him for a bad fight with an Akuma. It wasn't until Ladybug had revealed to be Marinette.

"you know, with someone having a superpower of 'Luck'. You sure make a mess of yourself."

"Whatever. You know my secret and I know yours. Do what you will with it."

They get closer once everything was resolved. Damian got better at handling people, Mari went tougher on people. Slowly falling in love, over the years.

But that's a story for another time.

Before reveal maybe year 2 to 3 italics are in English or another language if it isn’t in English, I’ll clarify

How Chat Noir and Selena first met. “Did you steal my look?” Chat grabs his tail looking her over and he dramatically throws his tail in disgust. “No kitty cat, you stole mine.”

Selena doesn’t realize that she’s been on Marinette’s roof for months. But she does notice how the same ravenette helps kids and kittens in need and sneak some snacks if they look often enough. She’s okay in her book.

The first time Marinette and Selena meet, she was on her balcony caring for her plants. Spray bottle of water on her hand, she hears a heavy ‘thump’ on her roof. Calling out Marinette points her bottle as a gun, just in case. “Chat?”

Selena pokes her head through and sees this small little girl look at her. “This was supposed to be an easy job” Confused, Marinette tilts her head slightly. “What was easy?” Marinette barely began studying English, now she’s thankful that she’s taken the subject seriously.

Marinette was about to be mugged the second time they interact. Chat Noir had been on patrol while Catwoman was on her way to another job. “Hey, there little lady.”

That stopped Catwoman in her tracks. Looking over in the opening of the alley, low and behold, there’s Marinette. Clutching her purse for dear life. Perched on the building behind the mugger is Chat Noir.

They both jump at the same time, noticing each other as they nod in understanding. Before they reach the ground, Marinette already has the mugger on the floor, groaning in pain.

Yearly road trip!

At first, it was the fair or occasional Carnival just outside of town but once the boys grew in numbers and added their interest, they started to fight who’s turn it was yearly.

When Damian joined, it was Tim’s turn and like the year before they got ready to go to another cluster of conventions in L.A. for weeks

Jason would suggest Disney world but always go to Universal Studio for Harry Potter.

Dick goes to stupid places that are weird, like the “Worlds Biggest Yarnball!” Other than that he takes pictures of food in his mouth and post it on Instagram. One moment he’s in New York City with a rainbow Bagel. The next he’s in Canada eating Timbits.

Yes, that’s an actual food item in Canada. They look like doughnut holes but better.

Go soccer baseball! (It's kickball to you, Americans.)

Anyway back to HC.

Babs doesn’t go half the time, but she always down when it’s her turn and she goes all out. Babs mostly goes for the tech conventions but once Dick, Tim, and Steph saw drone racing in Dubai.

They always went to Dubai after that. Damian thinks the drones are mini helicopters and get fascinated by them. He’ll never admit it.

They bribe Lucas to make a custom Duck boat if Lucas gets to go one time. “Y’all are white rich kids, but take me some time.”

Babs decked it out with Video games on the bilge (lower layer of the boat) while where the girls stay on top of the fantail.

They take the road trip very seriously. And literally. They drive. Everywhere.

In the open water, Babs keeps a bucket of chum to throw in the water to attract sharks. The first time it happens dick and Jason ‘freak out’ and reenact Jaws. Tim gets annoyed very quickly, he just wants to play video games. Bruce always stayed in at the wheel.

He can't choose between the boys and girls so he stays there. Once Marinette joined she switches constantly but once she's tired, she stays with bruce to nap.

Steph would go to places outside of the US for Instagram worthy food. Like Dragons Beard in China and Jiggly Cheesecake in Japan.

Cass likes to visit quiet places. Like the renovated Opera house turned Library. No one argues as much on her trip, and they enjoy the peace and scenery. Templo Expiatorio del Santisimo Sacramento, Mexico has been on her list but she always spots something else.

Marinette wants to go to Milan, Italy for Fashion week but she doesn’t plan the trip, the rest of the batfam does. They get her to spill where she would go if she ever got the chance.

They also don't tell her until they show up at the Bakery doorsteps. Honking in a custom Duck Boat, there's Dick Grayson, hanging out of the side yelling “Get in loser we’re going shopping.”

"THE BoWlS MARI. THE BOWLS!!"

"I won't even attempt to try this much effort with anyone else, just marry me instead, Mari. Don't let me indulge to stand another second of insufferable humans." This is how Damian proposes.

Damian having a mild innocence.

Like not knowing what tampons or pads are used for, and asking Bruce about it. Bruce panics for a solid minute before answering. "I'll tell you later." He doesn't.

Jason and dick don't think it's true so they tease him. Dick tried to be subtle by saying Steph was on 'her time of the month.' Jason bulldozed through saying she was stocking up on tampons.

"What are tampons used for." They tell him it's to cover women's vagina. He'll never admit to them that he thought they were to cover battle wounds.

Damian is very weirded when he finds out that Dick or his father having sex with a stranger.

 "You're not supposed to do that." Is his immediate thought.

"Dick, stop having sex with her if you don't plan on marrying her!"

Damian promptly leaves the room. "Where are you going little D?”

Stomping away, "To plan a wedding." He slams the door.

The first time Marinette tries to cuddle Damian, he freaks out.

"Woah, Angel, wait till marriage." Marinette just looks at him confused.

"What do you mean???? This is perfectly fine before marriage."

"Not in my culture!"

Jason and Dick weren't afraid of Marinette before. But ever since 'the Kitchen™" incident' they haven't walked in when she visits.

The Kitchen™ incident as followed.

Sleep-deprived Mari! & Tim! Mari still had ingredients out, she was making coffee cake for them since Tim asked for some "fre sh a voca do" for their desert.

M: Could you put the Ingredients away?

T: What dog? When did we get the dogs in here?

M: What?

T: Did you not say dog?

M: I thought you said you wanted to eat a dick.

T: What?! Mari I don't eat ass.

They were surrounding the island, both were crouched

M: You're not getting my milk.

Tim was moving his arms around and flipped over the island and grabbed the milk, he ran out with Mari following him.

M: No my MALK!!

Damian walked in much later to see where Mari was.

T: Do you know the muffin man?

D: The Muffin Man?

T: The Muffin man

Mari left to find Dami and heard that as she was coming in.

M: Shes married the muffin man.

Damian promptly forgot why he wanted to find her in the first place and leaves. Just silently going "wtf"

They would laugh so much they laid down on the floor, once the timer beeped, Marinette stumbled her way to the oven, accidentally stepping on Tim as well.

Why do they do that?! Both dick and Jason didn't wanna witness any more of this weirdness.

Every time, anybody in the bat fam is hurt, there is a speaker nearby with the CoD 1 zombie 'Game over' soundtrack. Ready to play. It's why common crooks stop hurting them because they can't escape the sound.

Tim did it on accident because he was sleep-deprived but he just kept the algorithm.

His usual response when attacks don't hurt him is. "Mothertrucker dude, that hurt like a buttcheek on a stick"

Jason and Tim mess with Penguin, once penguin caught on that they were only attacking at dusk. He started calling them Dusk Boys™.

"God damn dusk boys. Get off my lawn!"

Mariette witnesses it and coined the term, "Dusking it up." whenever someone was a little shit.

Damian got a kazoo one day, someone 'gave' it to him as they ran away. "It's a social experiment!" More like throwing it in his face. Once he got home he played it. Marinette was visiting for a while.

He showed her first and Tim was with her in the living room, eating cake. After he played it, they both went batshit crazy. Once they aren't sleep deprived, Damian 'serenades' Mari with the kazoo. It's during the next patrol and its right after they beat up another criminal.

She was very surprised and so was everybody else. 1 they are usually so profession about this and not announcing their presence or joking around. It's why she got so much done with him. 

2 She kind of enjoyed it???

Marinette finds herself in Dick.

Since everyone went to the pair to vent or find advice. Marinette sees them struggling and slows down with them. Taking things from scratch, be it subjects they struggle with or talking about people.

Dick can relate because not everyone is willing to talk to others besides Dick. They share tips on how to help. Mari gets ideas on how to talk to others about self-love and dick gets advice that he is doing all he can and more. 

Jason and Mari patrol together and spar together too often. Like when they both don’t want to hold back. Afterward, they get ice cream.

Mari never takes credit because she doesn't want to seem like a brat. But she also doesn't want to turn people down because she loves to help.

So she does her work, invites them in and hangs out with them and doesn't shut them out. She sets a group chat for people struggling in math and science. She also has a weekly get together for emotional support, "It doesn't matter what it is, just say it!" She invites Chloe one time and they have deep conversations about family issues and attitude issues.

Monthly shows.

Mari, Adrien, and Dick sing (ABBA) and dress up, they just call it a show. But once Mari does parkour and acrobatic moves they go on the tightrope.

She doesn't push dick and always uses the net, once dick explains why he didn't want to go in the first place. They take it slow. Explaining moves on the ground and different verbal signals to call out for a new movie or stop.

"I played you like the cheap Kazoo you are." Damian when he gets played by Mari in a game. It was Risk.

They are all instruments. Every single one of them. But their price is on a very wide range. It all depends on their mood.

Some are cooking supplies. "What a tool." No one in the mlb crew likes it.

[distortingbones]

relistening to a guest for mr spider and i'm really struck by the parallels between jon and martin's upbringings-- martin's mother resented him because he reminded her of his father (who she despised), while jon's grandmother resented him because he reminded her of his parents (who she loved & mourned). both jon and martin carry a similar trauma, but because of that difference (hatred vs mourning) they present in very different ways.

keep reading for a big chunk of analysis of how this has affected them/their relationship throughout the podcast, as well as it what it means for current events in canon. 

more than anything, martin wants to distance himself from his father by becoming someone worthy of love, or, failing that, someone who people overlook. (better to be invisible than to be hated, he figures.) he structures his whole public-facing self around being a trustworthy, kind, caring person. 

he first develops feelings for jon while jon is mistreating him (season 1) because he sees jon as somebody who is in need of love and affection. he can bring jon tea, check in on him throughout the day, and jon gives him very little acknowledgment in return. although it would be a stretch to call jon abusive, this still mirrors martin's parents' relationship, where his mother was the victim and his father the abuser. if martin plays the role of the person offering care and jon doesn't reciprocate, then in their unequal relationship, martin is unequivocally placed into his mother's role. martin gets to be the giver, and he is satisfied that this means he is not acting out the role of his father.

sure, jon still dislikes him, but that's because martin is "annoying and incompetent" (in quotes because it's obviously not true), never because jon thinks martin is a bad or abusive person. to martin, that's what's important. it's part of why he's so horrified when jon accuses martin of lying to him (and committing murder) in season 2. martin suddenly realizes that jon sees him as someone who is manipulative and capable of doing great harm, and that's martin's worst nightmare. up until this point, martin has continued to care for jon, no matter how awful and paranoid jon gets, because to martin it's not about how jon treats him, it's about how he perceives him. (ultimately martin gets better at sticking up for himself, but this is his headspace during season 2.)

this is also part of why martin finds the lonely so compelling. without other people around, he doesn’t have to worry about how he is perceived, because there’s no one there to perceive him. he doesn’t have to worry about being a bad or abusive person, because there’s nobody else around to abuse. nothing hurts in the lonely, because martin’s primary source of anxiety and internal conflict is finally lifted. when jon rescues martin from the lonely, martin says, “i see you,” and comes back to himself. but really, it’s the fact that jon sees martin that saves him. in that moment, martin is sure that jon loves him, that jon sees him as somebody who is worth saving, sees him as somebody who brings goodness into the world. martin feels fully and completely seen by jon, and he is overwhelmed with relief and joy that the person jon sees is good.

okay, what about jon, you ask?

jon is desperate to live up to his parents, who his grandmother mourned. much like martin, he yearns to be “good enough”. however, while for martin “good enough” means "not being abusive”, jon’s goalpost is invisible and constantly out of reach. martin at least had a model of how not to behave (like his father), but jon didn’t. even if he had tried to imitate his parents, it would never have fixed the hole in his grandmother’s heart. it’s impossible for the living to measure up to the dead, because our memory of the dead is both fixed and idealized.

jon internalizes that he needs to be more, better, but he’s never really sure how so he just criticizes every aspect of himself. he’s constantly comparing himself to others, but even when the comparison is favorable he still doesn’t feel good enough.

(big sidenote: i have adhd and headcanon jon as adhd because he displays a number of symptoms, and it’s really common for people with adhd to develop a deep feeling of unworthiness. we grow up with authority figures telling us we’re not “living up to our potential”, as we alternate between hyperfixating and losing focus completely. for example, i was often chastised as a kid because i read YA fantasy novels voraciously, but sometimes struggled in school because i refused to read anything that didn’t hold my immediate interest. guess who else read nonstop but wouldn’t read anything he deemed boring?? jonathan jarchivist sims. i’d be willing to bet he developed a serious unworthiness complex from authority figures asking why he couldn’t apply himself to [x thing] the same way he did to his interests.)

he works himself to the bone trying to be the best archivist that he can, but of course elias really screwed him over by giving him a job that he’s not actually qualified for and doesn’t know how to do which even further degrades his already paltry sense of self-worth. he projects this fear of incompetence onto martin, which is why he criticizes martin so harshly. even if jon’s not great at his job, at least he can say he’s better than martin. for someone who constantly compares himself to others, this is at least a small source of comfort.

when martin shows kindness to jon in season 1, jon brushes it off, because he thinks love is something that has to be earned. at this point jon feels deeply unworthy-- he’s in way over his head with work, and is terrified by the eye watching him give statements-- so he thinks martin doesn’t have any reason to care for him, which means that martin’s affection for him is not valid. in season 2 jon even suspects martin has ulterior motives, because he can’t fathom why anyone would genuinely want to give him love.

this post will expand into even more of a monster if i if get into all the times that jon puts himself down for things he can’t control (it wasn’t stupid to break the table alright, he was doing his best). he also consistently internalizes the criticism of others even when that criticism is unfair/cruel (look at what happened with tim in season 3, or when his coworkers discovered that he was feeding on people, etc etc etc). jon is way too willing to believe that he is a bad, stupid, evil person.

he’s also always going above and beyond to prove himself. again, countless examples, but like the dude literally charged into the buried to save daisy just because he thought it might be possible to rescue her. she’s not really his friend at that point (in fact she tried to kill him), and also he’s not at all responsible for her entrapment. but he thinks it would be the right thing to do, and so he does it, and damn the consequences.

he says if he dies, the world just loses another monster. but also, his parents died and they were the ones his grandmother loved, so maybe if he dies doing what’s right then maybe he’ll finally be good enough too.

anyway, by season 4, martin is effectively gone, and this is when jon’s feelings for him really start to show. (you can probably argue that his love for martin was evident earlier, but i personally think this is when jon becomes actually aware of how he feels.) the primary model of love jon saw growing up was the mournful, longing love his grandmother felt for his dead parents. he wasn’t taught how to love somebody who’s there with you, but he does know what it’s like to love somebody who’s gone. he begins to not just want to be “good enough” in general, but also specifically good enough for martin. (i.e. it’s martin’s reaction to jon feeding on strangers that really makes jon feel ashamed.)

when jon follows martin into the lonely, elias tells him flat-out that he will likely not return. jon doesn’t hesitate-- after all, he’s well-versed in taking enormous risks to save others, and this is for martin, to whom he so desperately wants to prove himself. it’s only once he finds martin that jon finally feel worthy of his love, and allow himself to accept it.

when martin says “i see you” and begins to come back to himself, jon knows he succeeded, that he proved himself, that he is worthy of love. and martin knows that jon loves him and thinks martin’s worth saving. in that moment, they don’t just love each other, they both feel loved, something that seemed almost impossible for these two traumatized men.

and it would be such a beautiful wrap if that was where it ended, right? but instead the eyepocalypse happened and we have to deal with all the messiness that is season 5.

so, jon was manipulated into ending the world as we know it, and the guilt from that undoes the tenuous scrap of self-worth he developed via saving martin.  he’s thrust into a position where he doesn’t think it’s even possible for him to be good again, let alone good enough. the only morally pure thing that he can think of to do is to use his power to protect martin, the man he loves, which is why he’s so emotionally paralyzed at the beginning of season 5. he can be good enough within the confines of their cabin, he can keep martin safe there, but out in the world ruled by fears he knows that there’s no way to be the perfect person he so desperately wants to be.

he ultimately agrees to go try to stop the fearpocalypse because he knows it’s the right thing to do, and jon has never, ever shied away from doing the right thing, no matter how dangerous. but he’s forced to make a lot of messy, difficult decisions out there-- he feeds off people’s fear to keep himself going, he murders not!sasha, he will certainly have to kill even more. as far as jon’s concerned, he’s crossed the line permanently. there is no way he is ever, ever going to be “good enough” again, after the choices he’s made. it doesn’t matter if he’s doing the best he can, or if he makes a net positive impact, or even whether or not events are his fault, he’s proven that he’s not perfect so he will never believe he is good enough.

meanwhile, martin comes into season 5 feeling rather empowered. even after all the effort he spent pushing people away in season 4, jon loves him, and that makes martin feel pretty confident that he’s a good person. he has a solid sense of self-worth, which means it’s easier for him to act and make tough decisions.

he also has a less rigid view of morality than jon does (despite generally being nicer). he sees the entities and their avatars as creatures who abuse others and cause harm, much like his father. if he could have hurt his father to save his mother, you know he would have, and he’s wiling to murder in order to save innocents. also, because he’s secure in his belief that he’s a good person (thanks in large part to jon being such a loving boyfriend), martin is less likely to scrutinize his own actions the way jon does. martin is making choices based on what feels right, what he thinks will have the greatest net positive outcome, while jon just sees every single harmful thing he does as another item in the pile of reasons that he’s not good enough. jon looks at his actions individually, while martin looks at them holistically.

anyway, right now they’re functioning. despite his absolutely annihilated self-worth, jon is still able to find an anchoring purpose in the fact that he can use his eye power to defend martin. martin is able to move forward and act because he has the warmth and confidence of knowing jon loves him.

it wouldn’t take much to break them, though.

if martin died or was lost to a power, jon would absolutely crumble and lose all direction.

if jon stopped loving martin and told martin that he was a bad person, martin would absolutely crumble and lose all self-worth.

that’s what makes annabelle cane’s interest in martin so worrying. right now, martin is confident enough that her call doesn’t really phase him, he just hangs up on her. but if martin were to give in and join the web, it could ruin everything. jon would feel like he’d failed martin, and, knowing jon’s stance on avatars, martin might feel that jon thought he was evil. they would both fall apart completely and lose themselves to the entities they serve.

[yszarin]

see below for screaming and hopes for one day a whole bread on Panopticon

- as a general thing - please bear with me, early access delays mean that I have had no time to stew in this (well, I’ve had lunch, if you can call it that, and that’s it) and may thus be even less coherent than normal, if you can believe that

- ... so, Martin Won’t Let Monsters Talk About Tim? way to shatter my little Tim/Martin heart while also sticky-taping it back together, I love it so much.

- whoop half my OTP is... kayaking, in Egypt, so I really am easily pleased with my tiny breadcrumbs, apparently. @ canon pls more breadcrumbs. one day I may be able to assemble a modest loaf. (actually what is the minimum size of bread? how many crumbs will I need?)

- “that’s Leitner too!” Peter oh my god

- ohhhhhh! I was wondering a while ago about Not!Sasha being all Cask of Amontillado-ed in the basement and I’m so happy she’s finally out! doesn’t sound good for literally anyone but I am living.

- noooo Martin at least send a text

- oh dear Elias is back on his bullshit. not that he was ever off it, I suppose.

- oooooh will it explode heads? without an Eye connection? how is it messy, exactly? and how does Peter know it’s messy if Jonah’s been in there the whole time, I assume Peter is not as old? though I guess he could be.

- ahhhhhhh confirmation on the Jonah!Elias theory at last. and Elias and Peter can apparently bond over enjoying startling Martin.

- wow I cannot wait to find out how this happened. It sounds like Jonah’s eyes are in Elias’ body and that’s how the possession works, so - I don’t imagine they involved a surgeon? mechanically, how did they do that? was it like Operation?

- and this is Gertrude’s last stand, apparently - wow we are getting so much this episode. I hope this won’t be an end to hearing her statements - it feels like we still have a lot to learn from that era.

- I adore the way she’s saying Elias’ name right now, it’s so stabby

- I thought she was shot more than that? According to the transcript for Human Remains, she was shot three times, so... when did that happen, if it wasn’t then? did Elias decide later, “you know what, I’m still pissed, I’m going to go and do some overkill”?

- I really hope Martin does care about them still, somewhere. Or at least that the caring can be stapled back in at some point. I’m rather fond of the caring. I believe I’ve said before.

- Peter, did you read a book on villain speeches? “we’re the same” I swear. I guess being Lonely he’s not had much practice at them? but you’d think he could have put some work in with Martin, and Brian, and that.

- “I think I would” okay I am putting a lot of my emotions into that would, it’s a hypothetical not a certainty, come on Martin, don’t do it - YES WELL DONE GOOD BOY

- oh no the poor Institute staff! I hope Rosie’s okay, and Sonja, I’m not sure we have many other names but honestly, Trevor and Julia that is just rude.

- “YOU NEVER TAUGHT ME” I really was not expecting to laugh out loud in this episode but here were are I guess.

- and another very well-deserved fuck for Jon

- Not!Sasha and the Hunters is my new band name (love their various ways of calling for Jon). I really want to know who’s going to win and how. 

- noooo Daisy! just leave it a minute! they might kill each other really hard! Daisy please

- I love that she’s the scarier though, listen to that growl that is excellent

- !!!YES MARTIN!!!

- “I mostly just said what I thought you wanted to here” please please mean that he’s not as far along as he implied

- god, Martin really is that “all my friends are dead” thing, isn’t he? someone get this man a dog.

- “trapped me into spreading evil” oh he did listen to Tim <3 </3

- also I like the acknowledgement of the Institute being evil - Martin describing it as that now actually gives me more hope for him not going full monster. at least, I can’t see him having said that and then wilfully becoming an avatar of evil, if that makes sense?

- hhhhh he did it for Jon my heart is all over the place

- I love that Martin’s outfoxed Peter Lukas through his special superpowers of being a disaster mlm with some real nasty self-worth issues. what an icon.

- oh no. bad static. D:

- and they’re talking about Jon so Jon going after Martin is clearly part of the plannnnn and I mean that bit I’m on board with I’ll never not be on board with Jon going after Martin but *squints* what are you doing Elias

- what a lovely evil laugh, I wonder if Ben practised (if so do recordings of it exist?) or if he can just do them?

- “I called you” was that the point of the Gertrude tape being left? to get Jon there? (“How do I summon my current Archivist? With a recording of me murdering the last one, works every time.”) Maybe the information about him being Jonah acted as a tie thing for him. and putting Peter in charge, has been all some sort of scheme to get Jon into the panopticon? feels like a Lot, I’d prefer if at least some of it was improv.

- “for Martin” oh just leave me here. “you want you to follow him” ugh.

- I mean I assume someone is going to make it out, we do still have two episodes. but this is presumably Doing Something for Elias. still vaguely concerned that this might be an attempt to actualise an entity - it’s as I say, vague, and a wild guess again, but if the Beholding and the Lonely aren’t that far apart then maybe Jon trying to bring Martin back will let something else (large, unblinking) through too? or maybe Elias just needs him to keep getting stronger.

- so, looking at the episode description - they’re referred to as having disappeared, which feels to me like a “won’t be back in the very near future, so is the next episode just going to be Basira on her own sighing a lot? can we have some of the other Institute staff? I’d really like to hear Rosie again. and from Sonja for the first time. then there’s Helen and Elias, still monsters on campus. Helen was doing a lot less spectating than I thought.

- are we allowed to have tape recorders in the Lonely? iirc we did hear a bit from Brian after he was whooshed, so it must be possible. I expect Jon’ll have one with him, they just tend to happen around him. just hope it turns on, I really really want Jon to finally get to yell at Peter and I want to hear it.

- anyway! I love this episode so much, it had so many things in it and they were wonderful, kudos to cast & crew as ever, RQ... very good. we knew that.

- also I’m still not over Martin Won’t Let Monsters Talk About Tim. I’m not going to be over it. I’m very short I can’t get over things.

[violetsmoak]

Pieces of April [5/?]

AO3 Link: https://archiveofourown.org/works/21099044/chapters/50202530

Summary: On the anniversary of his death, Jason’s second life takes an abrupt new turn and he’s faced with a challenge that neither Batman nor the All-Caste prepared him for.

Rating: PG-13 (rating may change later)

Warning(s): Past Jason/Isabel, kidfic, minor canon character death (pretty sure you can guess who, not either of our boys!), I’ll add more warnings/tags as I think of them.

Canon-Compliance: Takes place in between the two RHATO series, so after Roy and Kori and before Artemis and Bizarro.

Author’s Note: And now, for a change in POV!

First Chapter

________________________________________________________________

Of course, right after Jason leaves, the baby wakes up.

And starts to wail.

Tim freezes, all of his reflexes seemingly dissolved by the unyielding sound that such a tiny creature should not be able to produce.

Whatever Jason said about him being calm, in actuality, he’s completely freaked out over this whole baby thing.

Over the whole Jason’s baby thing.

This whole situation is just not in his area of expertise, nor does it require any of his previous training. And he can’t really see a situation where, on the infinitesimal chance Jason decides to give up vigilantism and become a stay-at-home-dad, he’d ever ask Tim of all people to babysit.

But then, right now, Jason’s not here.

The nurse from earlier returns, offering him a sympathetic look.

“It’s about time for her next feeding,” she tells him. “Do you want us to take her, or would you like to do it?”

Take her, please, Tim wants to say but bites his tongue.

He wasn’t talking out of his ass when he acknowledged that babies needed to be held. Human contact is good (even if that wasn’t basic medical knowledge, his own semi-neglected childhood can attest to that) and he all but volunteered himself for this to help Jason. He should at least do what he can.

Holding down the fort apparently includes holding down the baby…

“If you could just show me…?” he suggests, a sheepish smile pasted on and hopefully hiding his inner unease.

As expected, the woman’s expression turns into a mixture of amused and charmed. She chatters, motioning for him to take the chair Jason was sitting in before; Tim sits and lets her arrange the baby in his arms, showing him a light, gentle rocking motion to try to calm her.

“I’ll be right back with her formula,” the nurse says, though Tim barely hears her over the furious wailing.

He squints down at the scrunched-up face, trying to figure out how he ended up in this situation. Also, what exactly possessed him to call Jason his partner?

Because it’s the first believable thing to come to mind that didn’t involve spontaneous resurrections?

And technically, it’s even true. Sometimes.

And he was worried about Jason.

They may not be brothers, but they are family, and with that comes a certain awareness of each other. He knew the minute he saw Jason outside the dive bar that he was freaked out. He decided he would help him then, and he’s not about to back out now even if things have become way more complicated than anticipated.  

The nurse returns with the bottle of formula, and as soon as she’s explained how to properly position and feed the baby—apparently there’s more to it than just sticking a synthetic nipple in her mouth and waiting for her to chug—and prevent gas, she vanishes again.

To allow them “bonding” time.

Not what I thought I’d be doing when I got up this morning…

Tim’s done the baby thing before—sort of. But Steph’s daughter was bigger when she was born. Jason’s is tiny, and Tim is half expecting her to break into pieces before his eyes. Whatever manufactured confidence he had before, had been in the moment—and mostly for Jason’s benefit.

It had been imperative to get the infant out of the other man’s arms while he was clearly on the verge of a panic attack. Especially since no one ever knows how a cornered Jason Todd might react.

Not that I think he’d ever hurt an infant, but he doesn’t exactly process shock the way normal people do. It never hurts to have contingencies.

As he watches the baby guzzle her formula with surprising gusto, Tim finds himself going over a mental list of things that have to be dealt with if they’re going to get through life’s latest curveball more or less intact.

Paperwork for the baby. Arrangements for the mother’s body.

Isabel Ardila.

He knows her name only from the files as the woman Jason was seeing prior to the Joker’s last assault on the bats. She was caught in the crossfire, forcibly dosed with heroin to play on Jason’s past traumas, and following her recovery, ended things with Jason.

Or Jason ended things with her, Tim’s not sure. He never asked and he doesn’t intend to.

However it ended, clearly there was enough estrangement that she didn’t bother to tell Jason he was a father. It’s a decision he can, unfortunately, imagine the reasons for, even if he’s not sure he agrees with them.

Not like we can do anything about that decision now, though.

The baby slowly goes limp in his arms, and Tim has a brief moment of irrational, paranoid panic—has she been drugged?—before realizing she’s just fallen back asleep.

“Right. Because that’s a normal thing that babies do,” he murmurs to himself, and carefully maneuvers himself over to her crib to put her down on her stomach, like he’s seen in countless television commercials.

Then, uncertain, he pulls his phone out of his pocket and does a quick internet search, balking at the sheer amount of SIDS related articles, and scoops her up again to reposition her on her back.

Should probably tell Jason about that when he gets back…

Assuming Jason comes back.

Or even wants his help.

Which, Tim decides, he’ll offer anyway. Though that may mean playing to his strengths more than anything, preparing for every eventuality and having a series of back-up plans.

He highly doubts Jason’s thinking of any of that right now.

Phone in hand Tim begins typing quickly, pulling up tabs in his search engines for whatever concern pops into his head as he reads.

He suspects Jason is too uneasy about the whole situation to want to keep the baby, so Tim’s going to have to research adoption agencies through official and unofficial channels.

Open or closed, not sure what option he’d go with.

And then, there’s always the small chance he will keep his child. It’s a possibility that seems as likely as Bruce’s sudden predilection for joining the Russian ballet, but stranger things have happened in the family.

He skims through several forums and advice blogs for how to care for a newborn, makes a list of important supplies they might need in the immediate future and forwards it to Tam.

It’s several minutes later that his phone chimes, notifying him of her list of replies.

- Why the hell did you send me a list with diapers?

- Is this for a baby?

- Omg, did you kidnap a baby?

- Is that a thing that happens?

-First ninjas, now baby-napping?

Tim sighs and rolls his eyes. Normally he’d find her bemused and slightly-panicked responses a little amusing, but he doesn’t have the energy to go into details, even if Jason hadn’t sworn him to secrecy.

-A friend of mine has an emergency. Drop everything off at my apartment, please.

There’s a beat, another chime, but Tim doesn’t get a chance to read the message as his screen suddenly switches. The air is filled with a generic ringtone that Tim hastily mutes, eyes flicking to the baby and back to his screen. The number flashes ‘Unknown’, but Tim recognizes the number from earlier that day.

He stands, wanders away from the crib to answer quietly. “What is it, Harper?”

“Jay called me,” the older man says without preamble. “Told me everything. About the kid, about Isabel.”

“Yeah,” Tim agrees quietly. “I’d say shock is an understatement.”

“No shit.” He sighs. “Listen, I talked him down as much as I could, but the rest is on you.”

“What? Why?”

“He says you’ve been helping him.”

“For now, until someone more qualified comes along,” Tim retorts, implication heavy in his voice.

Roy catches it because he lets out a bitter laugh. “Sorry to burst your bubble, bird boy, but that ain’t gonna be me.”

“What are you talking about? You’ve been in literally the same situation.”

“And I can’t right now. So I need you to be there for him.”

“He needs his friend,” Tim argues. “And he’s made very clear I’m not one of those.”

“Then you'd better become one fast, because I can’t.”

“Why the—” Tim’s eyes flick to the infant, and he can’t help giving in to the impulse to censor himself, lowering his voice, “—heck not?”

“Because I’m in a bad place right now,” Roy snaps. “I’m not in a good way for being around a kid, okay? I…” He pauses, like he’s weighing something, and then exhales. “I…fell off the wagon again.”

Tim's stomach sinks. 

“Roy…”

“Don’t tell Jaybird,” Roy orders. “I just…I need to sort myself out before I can be any kind of help for him. I show up there now, I’ll just add to his problems.”

“But—”

“This is you being tagged in, okay? Don’t fuck it up.”

There’s a harsh click in Tim’s ear, leaving him listening incomprehensively to the dial tone for several seconds.

“Are you…are you kidding me?!” he hisses after a moment, only just refraining from throwing his phone across the room in frustration.

He didn’t realize before Roy’s call just how much he was counting on someone else to step in and take over in the emotional support department.

I’m not cut out for this. This sort of thing…it should be Dick. Or Alfred.

He spends the next hour once again reviewing what he did to get roped into all this.

When Jason comes back—and something inside Tim unknots in relief that he did come back—he’s as ashen-faced as before. This time, though, there’s a determined set to his shoulders.

They stand and stare at each other in silence for a good five minutes before Tim realizes Jason’s waiting for him to speak first.

Right. Tagged in. Let’s do this. Ease into it.

“So, what are you going to do?”

Tim winces.

Yeah, that wasn’t exactly subtle.

Jason doesn’t seem to notice the awkward, though.

“No idea,” he replies heavily, leaning against the doorjamb and letting his head thunk lightly against it.

“Social Services is obviously an option.”

“No way in hell,” Jason snaps, straightening up and looking fierce. “I don’t trust them. And you can’t tell me with all the Wayne resources you’ve got access to, we can’t find something better.”

Tim expected that. He might not have had the exact same harrowing experiences with foster care as Jason did, but his very brief stint left him with a hint of that same disillusion with the system.

It’s not something I’d wish on any kid, least of all Jason’s.

“We can look into it. Organize the best possible adoption scenario without dealing with Social Services. There are actually a lot of couples in the community who would be willing to adopt.”

“No. This kid isn’t growing up anywhere near capes or masks or stuff like that.”

Okay, that’s understandable. It also makes it less likely he intends to keep her.

“Whatever we do, it will take some time,” Tim cautions. “Placing a child with a family isn’t going to be as easy as sticking someone in Witness Protection.”

Jason snorts and shakes his head. “Only you would think that’s easy.”

“So, now that that’s figured out—what are you going to do once the tests are finished?” Tim asks, focussing on the practical. “I don’t find a family within the next day or so, you’re going to need to bring her somewhere. Assuming you’re adamant about keeping the rest of the Family out of this?” That receives only narrowed eyes in response. “Stupid question, sorry. But she’s going to have to stay somewhere until then. I wouldn’t recommend leaving her here at the hospital, for a number of reasons.”

Jasons frowns, thoughtful. Then,

“I’ll keep her for now,” he decides with a heaviness that Tim suspects is caused more by fear than dislike of children. “Until we find a better place for her. Some family that won’t mind doing this in private.”

“Okay,” Tim nods. “On that note—where exactly will you take her?”

Jason falters, looking like he’s not entirely sure what to say to that.

“I…my safehouses aren’t exactly babyproofed.”

“I don’t think that’s an issue until they start crawling,” Tim replies, trying for humor but the very idea sparks another flash of panic in Jason’s eyes. He’s looking at Tim now with something dangerously close to expectance, and a realization hits Tim.

He doesn’t want to be alone with this.

And it’s the fact he’s never seen Jason look so vulnerable that sparks a truly terrible idea.

I’m so going to regret this.

“I have a spare bedroom,” he offers, earning a sharp glance from Jason. “Just until you wrap your head around this and figure out the next move.”

He half expects Jason to scoff, or laugh in his face or say something insulting.

It’s decidedly worrying when the only thing that happens is Jason’s shoulders slump and he nods.

Jason’s shoulders slump, and he nods.

“Yeah. Yeah, that would be…good. Thanks, Drake.” He pauses, considering something, and then adds, “Tim.”

Next Chapter

________________________________________________________________

Your feedback matters! I want to know what you think of my story, so feel free to leave kudos, a comment or as many of these emojis as you want and let me know how you feel!

❤️️ = I love this story! 😳 = this was hot! 💐 = thank you for sharing this 🍵 = tea spilled 🍬 = so sweet and fluffy! 🚔 = you’re under arrest! the writing’s too good! 😲 = I NEED THE NEXT CHAPTER 😢 = you got me right in the feels

[welcometoteamz]

Since there’s a new influx of iZombie roleplayers I figured I’d make a little PSA post to cover my bases; in case you can’t help but be a bit judgemental as you skim my blog in spite of yourself.

Relationship discussions/thoughts and such below~

I’m Tim. As far as I know, this was the first iZombie roleplay blog on tumblr. I created it March 25, 2015. The show premiered March 17th.

I don’t say this to humblebrag, bc honestly, who tf cares?

I just say this to provide some context. I’ve been here since day one, writing Blaine.

I was here during the literal year long hiatus between the end of S2 and the start of S3.

During that time I wrote Blaine’s amnesia as being a legitimate and lasting affliction. In many ways, he became almost a divergent character who was Blaine in face and name only.

He developed relationships with some characters (whose writers may or may not still be around) such as Peyton and Liv that don’t exactly reflect that in canon. So if you see something you kinda sideye, that’s probably why. Context matters. There’s backstory to certain verses that explain how and why.

THAT SAID! Though I have no problem writing canon divergent Blaine (or verses that skew off from points in canon I don’t care for) I’m also cool with/enjoy writing Blaine at any point in the timeline. S1 Zombie Blaine at his most despicable. S2 human Blaine. Amnesiac Blaine. Blaine faking his amnesia. Blaine with aforementioned permanent amnesia. Mid S3-S4 Blaine. A Blaine who is working with Major and Fillmore-Graves.

ALL THE BLAINES~ *:･ﾟ✧*:･ﾟ✧

At the end of the day, I ship Blaine and chemistry. And just because he’s attracted to your character doesn’t mean he’ll actually catch feelings for them. In regards to canon Blaine, I refer to David’s comments and Rob Thomas’. His feelings for Peyton were real, and made him wish he had not done such despicable things in life.

Which is to say, yes, he had/may have regrets, but due to selfish reasons and not so much remorse.

Keep in mind, I’ll try to be respectful off all ships, and will refrain from publicly turning up my nose at any of yours. All I ask is that you do the same. I won’t force any ships on anyone, and I’m totally down for platonic and antagonistic relationships.

Here’s a guide tho, if it helps, to my thoughts on Blaine’s relationships as it would stand with a canon Blaine.

Thoughts on Blaine’s relationships:

-Peyton, while certainly recognizing the problematic elements. I was on board and then they pulled the rug out from under me. I have an explanation, from Blaine’s POV for why he lied, but in no way do I excuse it nor is it a justification. I won’t force this ship on anyone, I’m fine with it being platonic or antagonistic. If you want to write it, but only at certain points in time or canon divergent ones where he didn’t lie or whatever... that’s cool. Just let me know, because while I enjoy it, I know some people may be squicked out by it.

-Rita. No, they never met. No, she shouldn’t have died. Yes, I’m bitter. They didn’t meet in canon, but I can see canon Blaine being with her. As an annoyance/partner/eventual friend and possibly more. So I’m mentioning her. Mainly to promote @fairisfair, who writes her and is pretty much my exclusive Rita not that I really expect any others to pop up.

-Liv. Look. I know. In canon this is a special hell ship that would probably never ever ever happen.... but..... he enjoys her. As meddlesome as she’s been, I don’t think Blaine hates her. I think during his amnesia stint, he enjoyed and appreciated her friendship. In another world where he never killed anyone, and she didn’t see him with Boss’ goons? Who knows? Or again, developed after the amnesia and carefully done. IDK. That said I’m totally down for petty and antagonistic frienemy bickering.

-Ravi. Ravi irritates Blaine mainly due to the whole Peyton thing, but Blaine does respect and understand Peyton’s choice even if it bums him out. Ravi can be a bit nerdy and annoy Blaine, but I think Blaine has a tiiiny bit of respect for him whether or not he’d admit it. Ravi’s a good person and loyal to his friends and he respects that. Plus, his big brain. It’s also fun to rile him up.

-Major: Blaine and Major’s dynamic is so...??? Unusual? To go from trying to kill each other to unwilling alliance to Blaine being the reason Major found Natalie and Major understanding and not resenting Blaine for not wanting to remember and then now their partnership... like...we never got Major getting in Blaine’s face after it came out Blaine lied. Blaine was willing to let Major die, after Major basically was willing to be bygones and tease him about being a lounge singer. I like Maine. Not romantic Maine, but I find their relationship fascinating.

-Don E. Look, I can’t help but think maybe Don E. felt a little spurned by Blaine in addition to taken for granted... and that one sided feelings may have played a part in that. I mean he stood in the rain watching Blaine and noting Peyton, while Blaine sang about loving someone even though it hurts because they don’t love you back. But look. Blaine doesn’t treat Don E. like a lackey anymore. When those two goons in 1x04 tried to make their own brain business? Blaine killed them. When Don E. did it? ...not only do I think Blaine was impressed, but Don E. was all he had left. He was willing to forgive him stealing his clients and unfreezing Angus, and made him a partner, and appreciates him. Don E. is his only real and best friend. For all the wronging each other that went on towards the end of S2 and beginning of S3, when Angus died and Don E was there and comforting him yet saying what needed to be said? Feelings. Kissing him on the head, calling him dweeb, taking his face in his hands.

Risking his own life to save his, which had only been done before in the case of Peyton...

Blaine cares about Don E., and you can fight me on that.

Chase: Ok, this is where the bitterness starts. I would have loved a S4 of Blaine and Chase antagonistic over the fact that Blaine killed his brother but Chase can’t kill him because of the brain shortage. We saw Chase blackmail Blaine, but we never got to see Blaine call his bluff and remind him that he had him by the short n curlies as well. Be smug and lord the fact that Chase needs him now after turning down his earlier proposal, saying he had enough brains. I wanted to see them actually working well together, and coming to respect each other somehow despite hating what each stands for... culminating in a showdown.

We didn’t get that. Chase was just fine to let Blaine be after he found Mama Leone, and Harrison Graves is never mentioned, and they never have a scene again.

Angus: Ok Fuck Angus. Before we knew what a garbage human being the actor who played him is, I was mildly excited but the choice to make him a religious cult leader and the execution coupled with the fact he didn’t end up the big bad and it was just all a bunch of filler that made me have to look at that fuckface’s face?? ... not worth it imo. He should have been left to rot in the well, and in a world where he was played by someone else it would have been nice to see him take control by using Enzo to reach out to those in Fillmore Graves who were loyal to Carey Gold’s cause and staging a SHIELD/HYDRA esque coup. But that is another thread that they didn’t continue.

So alas.but in verses/threads that have to acknowledge him, the alternate faceclaim will be Robert Carlyle.

I’d include Blaine’s relationship with Clive but they’ve only had like four scenes together which go from Clive questioning Blaine/wanting to put Blaine away/questioning Blaine again/willing to let Blaine and Don E help on an investigation/questioning Blaine again....

[dccomicsbookshelf]

Bat-Sized

at the request of @midnightrooftops​ here are my headcanons/canon takes on the Bat Clan and their overall height and shape and miscellaneous tidbits related thereto.

Long Post is (Very) Long. I am sorry. I’ve been sitting on this one for awhile.

Bruce: People joke about Brucie all the time but I don’t think they realize just how good of an act Brucie is. Because Bruce Wayne is built like a prize-fighter. 6′2″ (188 cm) broad-shouldered, and just pure muscle. And yet he is widely believed to be the least physically dangerous person in all of Gotham city short of…I’m actually trying to come up with someone the Gotham public believes to be less of a physical threat and drawing a blank. Your average gothamite great-grandmother is more dangerous than Brucie. No one knows how he does it.

Kate: Apparently the tall genes are a Kane thing to go along with the vampire complexions. Kate is 5′11″ (180 cm). She walks around in mini-dresses showing off her arms and thighs. She is ripped, why anyone would ever look at her, even drunk, and think “lets mug this chick” I have no idea. She has a fondness for heels that boost her up into the 6′3″ range. She enjoys intimidating creepy old men.

Barbara: Babs’ adult height, stood on her feet, is 5′7″ (170 cm). She seems fairly unintimidating physique wise until you get a look at her arms. Babs has all the upper-body strength. She can outlast Jason at pull-ups. (And guys have a physical advantage at pull-ups because testosterone builds those muscles. The female body has to work for it.) It is acknowledged that Babs has the best arms in the whole family. She is able to still take to the sky even without having any use of her legs. She was fairly average growing up. Not tall but not short either, no shortage of muscle, as a competitive gymnast and later vigilante, but overall, fairly average for an Olympic level athlete!

Dick: I’m not going to talk about Dick’s butt because there are literally entire blogs devoted to it and I am part of Team Can We Please Stop Objectifying Dick Grayson So Much Thank You. Here’s the thing though, as an adult, Dick stands at 5′10″ (177.5 cm), definitely not short. But for some reason people tend to think of him as short? Which is actually a mix of several things. 1) Dick hangs out with a lot of really tall people. His first girlfriend was 6′5″ (195.6 cm) not counting any added height from her hair. 2) He was frickin’ tiny. Dick Grayson, up until he (finally) got his first major growth spurt at the age of 17 was generally guessed to be at least two years younger than he actually was. It was at its worst in his mid-teens, when most of his friends were at least 6″ taller than him. So a lot of people are just used to thinking of him as short, even though he isn’t anymore. As far as build goes, he’s fairly lean. He bulked up a bit while he was Batman, and hasn’t shed all of it. His current build is between Batman and Pre-Batman. He also has no spine. It’s the only explanation for why he’s still able to do some of the contortions he does. By all rights they should have become impossible for him by the time he was out of his teens. (It’s probably trace electrum from the tooth the Court marked.)

Cassandra: Is petite, though entirely made up of scar tissue and muscle. There was about a year where she, Tim, and Steph were all 5′5″ and they had fun with it, though unlike the other two she never got any taller. Literally every inch of her is muscle. She’s compact and tough as nails. Despite that, she’s on the slender side. Pound for pound she is easily the strongest member of the family. Is the only one who has biceps that could honestly give Babs a run for her money. What she’s really built for is speed and her reaction times are off the charts. Partly because she knows what you are going to do before you do.

Jason: See, here is the thing. Jason was always going to be tall and strongly built, that was never in doubt. He was predicted to grow up to be around Dick’s height and a little bulkier back when he first lived with Bruce. And then he got dunked in a Lazarus Pit which had the effect of removing the damage done by a childhood’s worth of malnutrition, trauma, and poor health. All of which is to say, by the time Jason is done growing he is a freaking tank. He will forever resent Bruce for the one inch the man has on him (Jason is 6′1″/185.5 cm) but he easily comes to match Bruce in sheer size. He enjoys taking advantage of his height and weight…well, advantage to torment his brothers. Dick doesn’t really care, its actually just about the only topic he can’t get Dick riled up on, and Tim just gives him a wearily resigned look whenever he starts looming. Damian stabs him when he picks him up to walk off with but it was totally worth it. Jason is a bruiser and a brawler and is built like the last guy you would want to run into in a dark alley. (Thighs and pecs are what get whistled at for Jason.)

Stephanie: Despite Damian’s insults and insinuations, Steph isn’t fat. She has a sturdy build and isn’t necessarily what you would call thin, but given that she grew up in Crime Alley, that is a point of pride as much as anything. She’s a bit top-heavy, the struggle to find clothes that fit both the boobs and the hips is so very real. So real. She stops growing when she’s still in her mid-teens, ending at 5′6″. She has fantastic core strength. Post-pregnancy, her hips have a tendency to go a little wonky on her, but it isn’t usually an issue. She’s very proud of her abs.

Tim: Tim somehow manages to give off the air of being either a scrawny little dweeb or a slim, trim, aristocrat, depending on the circumstances. It is a lie. Beneath the baggy hoodies and tailored jackets he’s lightly built, yes, but the boy’s got some muscle on him. He’s self-conscious because, comparatively speaking, his physique isn’t that impressive. He only thinks that because he’s comparing himself to Bruce, Cass, Jason, and Dick. By normal, not-obsessive-vigilante human standards he’s very impressive. Height-wise…He was always just slightly on the small side but he maintained a pretty steady growth rate up until he just…stopped growing. No growth spurts to save him, he reached 5′8″ (172.5 cm) a couple of months after his nineteenth birthday and just stayed there. That leaves him, once he’s done growing, two inches shorter than Dick.

Duke: Matches up to Kate’s 5′11″ with a build not dissimilar to Dick’s, though slightly stockier. Has fantastic shoulders. He likes his height, he’s safely in the middle of the Family, so he doesn’t get dragged into most of the “shorty/giant” hi-jinks. He was also tall and broad enough by the time he joined the Family that he has been able to (mostly) avoid Cross-dressing For Justice™. Was somewhat disappointed to find that his size is not enough to always protect him from being picked up/tossed around. Dick and Jason have both done so at least once.

Damian: Dami is a midget okay. He’s almost as small as Dick was at his age, just a slight bit stockier. (Dick was scrawny on top of being a shrimp) Damian weighs a lot though. He’s a solid little bundle of rage and muscle. The thing is, he won’t stay small for long. He’s going to hit fifteen in a couple of years and then shoot up like a rocket. By the time all is said and done Damian Wayne will stand 6′4″ (193 cm) and he will love it. He won’t ever be as bulky as his father or Jason, taking more after his mother in that respect. He is the tallest member of the family and never lets Tim or Jason forget it. Everyone still calls him things like “Baby Bat” and “Lil’ D”.

Alfred: Stands an even 6′ (183 cm) and, like most of the family, is deceptively muscled underneath his suit jackets.

To close out, a list from shortest to tallest, final adult height.

Cass - Stephanie - Tim - Barbara - Dick - Kate & Duke - Alfred - Jason - Bruce - Damian

Has been edited to correct my mix-up between Cass and Steph. Never try and transcribe your notes into coherent headcanon posts when sleep-deprived, kids.

[vvitchering]

I followed you literally a few days before the name change cause you had a Witcher name posting Mandalorian content so I figured it was the best of both worlds! What are you most excited about on Mando S3 and Witcher S2? They both have a lot of story to tell! Shipping wise, love Cobb Vanth (and Tim Olyphant) but the possibility of more development in canon seems slim, while the potential for Geralt and Jaskier is there, even if just to try to fix the mountain scene + throw Eskel into the mix!

The name change was a bit out of the blue but I tend to do that whenever I decide to focus on a new fandom! I kept my twitter handle the same though, so I figured that was a good compromise :) 

Oh lord,,,,,I hope you are prepared for Opinions because I have many. So many I think I’ll put this under a cut to spare the dash lmao

Aight so let’s talk about Mando S3 first since that’s what I’m most excited about anyway. I actually just marathoned S2 yesterday for the millionth time so I’ve got it all fresh in my head. I’m still thinking they’re going to go in a more introspective direction with Din at first. Where we leave him in the s2 finale, he’s lost literally everything. 

He’s broken his creed beyond what he feels he can excuse away, he’s finished his quest but lost his son in the process, both his covert and his ship are gone so he’s effectively entirely homeless, and now he has Bo Katan breathing down his neck for the Darksaber that he doesn’t even want but can’t just hand over. 

That’s a lot for one emotionally vulnerable dude to handle. I think he’ll try to disappear for a while and give himself a chance to grieve. I like to joke that maybe we’ll see him in the background during The Book Of Boba Fett crying on a couch. I’d like to see him be able to take the time to process everything that’s happened, properly grieve, and be able to make an informed decision about what to do with the Darksaber. I don’t feel that Din would feel comfortable taking that responsibility on without something or someone influencing him in that direction. Maybe we’ll see the armorer again? Whether or not she’s going to continue to be a positive figure for Din remains to be seen. 

Regardless, I do think S3 is going to deal with themes of self discovery and focus at least of its time on Din’s personal journey into figuring out what being Mandalorian means to HIM, rather than trying to fit back into the ways he was raised in. I don’t see him giving up his faith or traditions. But I do see him and the show exploring these things in a deeper way and I hope that means we get to see more Mandalorian lore and culture :D Once he’s more secure in himself again, I can see him being an absolutely fantastic leader for his people.

And of course I want the show to give him his baby back!!! I want those themes of found family to remain strong and I desperately want to see Din acknowledge his paternal bond with Grogu in some more concrete way. Whether he formally adopts him in the Mandalorian tradition, or he’s called to wherever Luke took Grogu for training to help, I just want them to get to see each other again ;A;

My last feeling about s3 is it had better NOT try to shoehorn in a romance. Both s1 and 2 were so solid and satisfying without one and I would hate to see s3 replace the focus on familial bonds with romantic ones. We just don’t need it. I love shipping, but that’s my side hobby. I don’t need it in canon. Especially not this canon. 

And now we switch gears and talk briefly about The Witcher s2

So I am significantly less excited for this one, to absolutely no one’s surprise. From what I can tell, it’s heading into the story that takes place in Blood Of Elves, which I actually have read, so I have a good idea of what to expect plot-wise. They’re tossing in a few of the stories they didn’t use from The Last Wish too which could be cool. I’m looking forward to seeing if they manage to keep the whimsical nature of Nivellen’s story intact or if they’re DoomGloomGritting it like the rest of the story in the show so far.

I Hated the mountain scene for various reasons and I’m not getting into it again, but I would say not to hold your breath for the miraculous apology everyone seems to want for some reason. But if you like Jaskier angst/whump.....you’ll like this season. 

The one thing I actually am still holding onto some excitement for is finally seeing Kaer Morhen and the rest of the Wolves (+ Coen). I’m still not over Thue having to step down as Eskel and I’m Big Worried about how this new guy will do. I just can’t see it, he doesn’t have anywhere near the right look, imo. But makeup is a powerful thing so we’ll see. I’m very excited to see Lambert because Paul is Gorgeous and I think it’s about time the world got to have a Gorgeous Lambert. 

Again, if the show follows the book at all, we should be getting some lighthearted and cute witcher family scenes but I don’t really trust the show runner to not run off and do her own thing again, as she is so fond of doing. After that point, I got bored of the story and I don’t have any plans to finish the rest of the books so. Yeah. 

I’m hoping by that time I’ll be able to afford a PS5 and can play the remastered version of TW3 and get back into the franchise again through that. Despite my lack of faith in the show, I still do really love the characters and the lore! 

[cliticalthinker-blog]

Will Harley Quinn’s Bisexuality Make It To Suicide Squad? (And Why It’s So Important)

Harley Quinn is having quite the supervillain’s year: though the movie’s not due out for another two months, Suicide Squad has already become one of this summer’s most hyped, Its first trailer already boasting 50 million views, and Warner Bros. has even confirmed that a Harley Quinn spinoff is in development.

Any time more Harley Quinn is involved, it’s great news for anyone who likes good superhero/villain movies, but possibly even better for queer women everywhere. It’s well-established in the DC Comics canon that Batman’s nemesis is bisexual, hooking up with Deadshot, the Joker (albeit in a sordidly abusive relationship), and Poison Ivy at various points in her arc. This latter relationship came as a relief to someone who found her way into graphic novels and then comics by way of Alison Bechdel, and then did not stop her very queer longing for characters like her.

As for Margot Robbie’s portrayal though, no one is sure yet as to how queer Quinn will allowed to be. Critics have speculated, (hoped), but such dreams were pretty much ruined when Will Smith, who plays Deadshot, told Empire magazine, “Harley’s the biggest troublemaker, but Deadshot’s kinda eyeing her a bit. There’s a pretty ragged romantic angle there.” We might move on from the worrisome idea of a love triangle involving the Joker, under likely naive presumption that Quinn’s history with abuse will be handled with nuance. I’d like to imagine a world where, say, she feels conflicted about her residual feelings with someone who hurt and manipulated her — which would be extremely valid and real.

But as to the threesome’s gender makeup, things definitely aren’t looking so good. Admittedly, composing the love triangle with Deadpool and Poison Ivy or the Joker and Poison Ivy would have its own issues. The former involves the messiness of appearing to “choose” a sexuality by picking a gender, (for further examples, see the first season of Orange Is The New Black). But the latter could also look like an invalidation of her relationship with Poison Ivy, characterizing it as simply a reaction to abuse (to be clear, still a legitimate response) and not legitimate attraction. An all-female love triangle is an option, but to my knowledge, there’s no precedent for it in the comics.

All of that being said, however, the impending bi-erasure is so important to take note of, not just because we’re talking about bury your gays, and not even just because straight-washing is everywhere. But comics in particular have a poor history of actually acknowledging a character’s queerness in book-to-screen transitions. Some cases like the openly gayGreen Lantern and bisexual Catwoman and Selina have an excuse, in which the characters weren’t formerly out until after their movies. For others, canons can be messy when franchises switch writers and/or span decades, as in the case of X Men, which features quite a few queer or queer-coded characters.

In the ’80s, publisher Jim Shooter told Chris Claremont he could not depict gay characters, but Claremont slipped in two lesbian couples anyway. At one point, Shadow King calls Destiny (aka Irene Adler) Mystique’s leman, from a Middle English word referring to a (female) lover. Storm’s relationship with Yukio is less explicit, but heavily coded — at one point, Storm is offered her “heart’s desire,” to run away from her responsibilities and shack up with Yukio and Tokyo. Even the modern Storm had a queer panel or two at a recent Axis event. Still, 20th Century Fox has not picked any of this up for the Halle Berry/Alexandra Shipp version of Storm, or the Rebecca Romijin/Morgan Lily/Jennifer Lawrence version of Mystique. If Psylockeever makes it in either, I doubt her relationship with Northstar would make the final cut either.

Again, some of these characters are hard to affirmatively claim as queer, because their creators haven’t said otherwise. Wonder Woman, for example, literally comes from an island of women, has a huge gay fanbase, officiated a gay wedding, and her new writers aren’t opposed to “delve into the Sapphic side of the Amazons.” Andrew Garfield made an off-the-cuff suggestion for a bisexual Spiderman, but there’s no precedent for it yet. The #GiveCaptainAmericaABoyfriend campaignpointed out gay subtext between Captain America and Bucky Barnes. And Hercules, in both the original Greek legend and Marvel comics, has gay coding, but Mavel’s Editor-In-Chief Axel Alonso has confirmed that the demigod can only be queer in another universe, “similar to how Colossus was gay in the Ultimate Universe, but is straight in the 616.”

But with quite a few franchises, the decision to straighten up a character has been clear. In Scott Pilgrim vs. The World, Ramona Flowers’ ex Roxie appears in both the comic and movie versions, but is described as just a phase. In the movie, this awful exchange actually happens:

SCOTT: You know her?

RAMONA: It was just a phase.

SCOTT: You had a sexy phase?

RAMONA: I was just a litte bi-curious.

ROXY: I’m just a little bi-furious!

DC’S bisexual detective antihero, John Constantine, was picked up some time ago by NBC for a series, but execs decided to place him with a female love interest. Just a few months ago, the otherwise fantastic Deadpool movie, which Tim Miller and Ryan Reynolds promised would openly acknowledge the character’s pansexuality, faced a similar fate, with only a few passing pansexual references and a peck on a man’s cheek. (His portrayal in the comics, though, is great.)

To be fair, there are other issues when acknowledging a certain character’s bisexuality in screen adaptations. Unlike comics which can spread out a long arc over many years, directors have to squeeze a finite storyline into an hour or two, which doesn’t leave a lot of time for many love interests, particularly if one relationship is already working quite well, or the movie does not become a franchise. If a character has many relationships or flings in a movie, it could perpetuate the slutty bisexual trope, or seem to further serve the characterization of a hero as erratic (those like Harley Quinn or Deadpool risk this). Even worse, with most of these movies being made from the straight white male gaze, any pairings involving queer women will likely appear to be fanservice for like-minded men. Especially since the actresses playing them are usually straight themselves (perhaps Harley Quinn could call on Enchantress, who will be played by Cara Delevigne). And with the exception of Storm, every possibly queer character mentioned here is played by a white actor.

So while the explosion of superhero movies over the past decade or so does not seem to be concluding any time soon, it seems we’ll have to wait a little longer for them to be openly queer on the big screen.

[bigskydreaming]

What are some Dick Grayson facts that you wish were talked about more

I don’t know about facts per se, but my biggest thing I wish was talked about more with him was just....flipping the script BACK from how its so often flipped on him.

What I mean by that is, Dick’s kinda unique in that the expectations that are layered on him both by characters and readers alike, means that most of his actions are judged by a standard of not whether they’re ‘good’ but whether they’re ‘good enough.’

Bruce, Jason, Tim, Damian....the stuff they get judged for is stuff they actually do in canon. Dick, the stuff that most commonly gets held against him....the framing of it is SPECIFICALLY that what he did wasn’t AS GOOD as what he COULD have done.

And that’s how we get things like when Jason was Robin, and there’s not really anything specific anyone can point to as proof Dick was a jerk or callously neglectful of him, etc.....so instead the thing that gets most cited about that time is that Dick’s efforts at being a brother weren’t good enough. That he should have done more, made more of an effort, should have tried harder.

Or the thing with Tim and Damian and Robin, even the most vocal critics of Dick’s actions there tend to agree that there wasn’t a real alternative that would have kept Damian from going back to the League of Assassins, so instead the criticism is kept this vague murky thing where how Dick handled it wasn’t good enough, and he should’ve done it better, even though at most the only thing anyone’s ever specified about how he could’ve done it better is saying he should have talked to Tim beforehand, and does that really track? Fans holding a grudge against a character for ten years because he....didn’t have a conversation ahead of time?

Or with Spyral, the takeaway is that even if it wasn’t Dick’s choice to let everyone think he was still dead and he was being unduly pressured by his father to do so, he should have somehow found a way to satisfy all parties, and keep everyone appeased, and failing to do so was him not doing a good enough job at...being Dick Grayson.

See what I mean? Pretty much all the greatest hits levied against Dick Grayson, unlike when other characters are cited as doing specific things they’re criticized for.....in Dick’s case, the criticism is almost always about him not meeting some arbitrary hypothetical BETTER standard.

And as a result....

The REVERSE never gets talked about.

The stuff that Dick actually DID.

And so with Jason as Robin, the focus is entirely on how whatever Dick did do wasn’t good enough....meaning nobody’s ever talking about what Dick DID do says about him....the fact that despite having no obligation to Jason, no responsibility for him, no reason to try and make something of a relationship with him despite Bruce doing nothing to encourage that and placing sizable roadblocks as to why Dick would even want to, Dick DID look past resentments he had about Jason being so easily adopted when he never had been, Bruce giving away the mantle he had no right to give away let alone take from Dick in the first place.....and Dick DID make an effort to bond with and be there for a kid who had everything Dick himself wanted and was being denied by their father, without taking it out on him. I mean, he took Jason skiing. Yeah, all we ever saw of that is a photo referenced in one story years later, but that’s not a small thing. 

Someone in Dick’s position being able to see past all the extremely valid reasons he had to be hurt and bitter right now, to just do right by this kid and take him out of town on a freaking ski trip that had them both smiling and taking photos together....is not a small thing. Its a clear point in Dick’s FAVOR in a situation and time period that has been flipped to be all about how he wasn’t a good enough brother....and this coming up more often in terms of Jason’s demise “I wonder if I had only been a better brother, if Jason would still be alive”....than even writers having Bruce wonder “if I hadn’t come down so hard about Garzonas or had tried harder to hear Jason out, would he have ever run off looking for more family”....even though BRUCE is the one that Jason actually lived with and interacted with and was affected by, day after day.

And same thing with Tim and Damian.....at most, its begrudgingly acknowledged that Dick was going through a lot at the time too, but its never actually taken all the way to being flipped to examine what Dick DID do during Battle of the Cowl....as in, he tried to meet every single one of his brothers halfway, and Damian’s the only one who ACTUALLY met him there and gave him a chance. Jason and Tim just rebuffed Dick’s efforts totally, because they weren’t ALL THE WAY in the direction of what THEY wanted and basically Dick just caving so they could have it 100% their way. Dick, despite the fact that being the eldest brother should never have meant having to solely step up into the role of Damian’s father, WE’s CEO, Gotham’s Batman and more, all alongside the abandonment/neglect of everything DICK had ever prioritized for HIMSELF, worked for, made HIS OWN personal mission and priority....Dick still tried to navigate a literally impossible situation and do right by everyone, its just he was mostly told nope, this isn’t good enough, and if its not good enough by my standards its not worth anything to me.

(I’d love for people to talk more about the absolute sucker punch Dick must have felt the way most people write Tim’s ‘side of things’ back then....with it being matter-of-factly stated that Dick took away ‘the one thing Tim had left’ by taking away Robin....as though Tim didn’t still have Dick himself, as his brother, the whole damn time, and Tim and his stans are the only ones who made that meaningless, acting as though Dick being Tim’s brother meant nothing unless Tim was Robin too. “You still have me, aren’t I worth anything to you,” I’d love to see more people write Dick thinking as the brother he’s given so much of himself to over the years, including his own NAME, walks away from him as though Dick means nothing to him unless things aren’t on Tim’s terms, the way Tim wants them).

But you see what I mean? So often, the script is flipped on Dick from the word go, so he’s not even being evaluated in terms of what HAPPENED, but in terms of what DIDN’T happen, and what a fan or writer/reader personally feels SHOULD have happened instead.

Because the reality is, what DID happen....is not grounds for criticizing Dick and rather speaks to how damn much of himself he habitually sacrifices for the sake of others, and that doesn’t work when the narrative people WANT is one that shows how Dick the Golden Boy is less than perfect....when they’re the only ones insisting he be judged and evaluated according to some arbitrary standard of perfection!

So that’s what I’d like to see talked about more with Dick....seeing the script flipped back to allow for discussion of what Dick actually DOES that’s to his credit in all these scenarios and more......instead of the conversation so often being dominated by a need to defend Dick from criticisms that essentially all come back to him not being good enough, or just flat out perfect.

[bigskydreaming]

I'm so used to Dick getting hit because his family or friend was annoyed and decided he was the closest wall to punch that I never expect anything different anywhere, and then Young Justice s3 and Titans s2 caught me by the neck and threw me into a pool of unexpected catharsis. I never expected Dick to defend himself, I never expected the catharsis, I never expected how much it'd affect me. Although now that Titans s3 is upon us with a Dick vs Jason fight I'm back to the default.

I really, really, REALLY wish more people had even the slightest idea of the catharsis that can come from one character just fucking INTERVENING in a situation like we see happen so often in fics and the comics and just be like....no. That is not fucking okay. And like, without that, it literally is just...permissive? Like when Jason punches Dick in Grayson #12 after the Spyral thing, and Tim just stands there.....Tim's essentially saying its okay, he sees nothing wrong with what just happened. Which....dun dun dun....not all that surprisingly then turned into Tim punching Dick in Batman and Robin Eternal.....again with nobody upset.

Its why I've never even been able to like, go with the idea that Alfred or any of the Titans knew about what happened between Bruce and Dick in NTT #55, specifically, because like....I can't make peace with nobody saying anything about that ever. Bruce is a Big Time Superhero. Who frequently rubs people the wrong way. I don't buy that nobody's ever gonna throw that back in his face to make a point about how he's got no business being holier than thou about various topics. *Shrugs*

But yeah, unfortunately its not just canon. Like, I've read a fic where the prompt was literally like....people being glad to see Dick back from Spyral and getting actual catharsis for everything he went through instead of what we got in canon....so I went into the fic like okay, cool, this is exactly what I'm looking for. LOL nah, we got Jason STILL punching Dick anyway, even AFTER finding out about the events of NW #30 and Dick actually having died, and like, Jason was still so pissed at Dick for not TELLING them this that NOW, THAT'S why he just has to punch Dick before THEN hugging him and saying okay I just had to get that out, but now I'm over it and glad you're back.

And I was just like.....ummm. The author and people in the comments are treating this like an lol moment where all's well that end's well, and I'm like ARE YOU KIDDING ME, THAT'S THE EXACT SAME ISSUE CANON PRESENTED. Only now its WORSE, because people act like that addressed and resolved it, but with it STILL including Jason punching Dick cuz he was mad, and now with this even MORE formally being treated as like....something fine and necessary to repair their relationship. And all of this is packaged as like...the specific catharsis that people who were UPSET with how that all played out in canon like, came into this specific fic looking for....and this is what we got instead, with zero warning.

That's not even getting started on like, the super long super serious fic set during the Ric Grayson era that was supposedly about addressing Bruce's abusive actions towards ALL his kids, which FEATURED Ric as a regular character, but only ever actually DELVED into the times he'd hit Jason and then Tim. With Tim as an unreliable narrator making some reference to Bruce having hit Dick a couple times but that was different because Dick was an adult....and the author and narration at NO POINT pushing back against this to be like well actually Timmy, that's not fucking different at all, Dick is still his kid, Bruce was still taking out his anger on him, that was still abuse, and saying or even just implicitly framing it as NOT abuse the way it played out in Tim's head, when you're presenting this entire fic as a whole as like, an ode to actually acknowledging the abusive aspects of how Bruce has been written with his kids....

Again, SUPER upsetting to read and witness, because people are absolutely going to read that and internalize that as reinforcing their belief that the situations with Bruce and Dick WERE substantially different and thus not qualifying as abuse and belonging in a separate category the way Tim slotted it in his brain.....because why wouldn't they?

The author only wrote it that way because they perceived it that way, clearly, otherwise by their own stated admission of trying to tackle this subject honestly and completely, like....they would have actually made some kind of point or acknowledgment of it not being different at all and still very much abuse....and the fact that they didn't suggests they very much did see it as somehow different.....so why would readers perceive it any differently and why wouldn't its inclusion in a fic that delved into abuse so extensively NOT at least on SOME level potentially reinforce whatever leanings or perceptions they had in the same direction already? And meanwhile, this story like sooooo many others that wants to talk about abuse SERIOUSLY, all the while calls this their hobby that they do for enjoyment, so please don't criticize anything because that would ruin the HOBBY of it all for them, and its like....

And then there's the fic where its Dick hitting Jason while in the midst of a narrative that's bringing all of Jason's abuse issues and related triggers front and center, and this one is highly recommended as like, a great Dick Grayson characterization by an author who hates any and all canon renditions of Bruce being abusive and so doesn't include anything like that, and so you're going into it like okay, I'm not expecting any catharsis or anything along the lines of acknowledging Bruce's worse moments with Dick or Jason because clearly that's not what this fic is about and that's fine...but by the exact same token, I ALSO was not expecting that an author who is so vehement about how abusive Bruce is wildly OOC writing because the real Bruce would never do that and that's not how they perceive the characters, like....what I'm NOT expecting is for Dick, in a fic PRAISED for a good and complex depiction of him, to like....just fucking pop Jason one in the face and bring to mind how this makes him no different from Jason's abuser and then he runs and seeks comfort in Bruce who whether people like it or not, is canonically someone who has made Dick an abuse survivor himself....

And I'm just sitting there fucking BLIND-SIDED thinking wow, not only did I NOT want this recommended to me by the whole freaking fandom as a wonderfully nuanced portrayal of Dick Grayson, I would have kept a ten mile radius from it if it had say, a tag warning of sibling abuse, which is what they wrote between Dick and Jason, just the other way around. And its like.....I completely understand the author's dislike of abusive Bruce in canon and their desire not to engage with that content on any level, and would have been totally fine with that.....except, I naively figured there was no reason that same logic wouldn't extend to Dick, especially in so lauded a fic, because like, what? Bruce would never ever hit his family and its wildly OOC and simply not believable, even though its happened like five different times with Dick alone, but Dick hitting HIS family is a wonderfully nuanced and complicated portrayal of him? In what universe is that not gonna be a problem for some people??

But because we live in a fandom that's like, umm, this is just peoples' HOBBY, they're doing it for FUN, we're expected to be silent about stuff like this which are very real fucking problems to watch go unacknowledged in fics that claim to be TRYING to treat these topics seriously, but in reality only want to be entertainment just deep enough to move people but NOT deep enough to warrant criticism for having an undue influence on peoples' emotions or perceptions of various dynamics.....and we're supposed to be polite and just smile and say this isn't for us and let it all go, even though like, we would have KNOWN it wasn't for us and not gone anywhere near it in the first place if like, it had been tagged as sibling abuse or something like that. That would have been a clear advertisement to me that like, this is not something you want any part of.

Like, I go to fics that do acknowledge or reference Bruce's abuse to his kids because I'm LOOKING for the catharsis of having abuse actually called out as abuse....and what about that makes anyone think I or someone like me is in doing so LOOKING for characters who AREN'T already abusive to each other in canon NOW being abusive in ways that only the individual fic writer chose to depict them as? And by the same token, its not like I want to go into any fic and see more of the same thing as we get in canon, which is.....more instances of actual abuse being framed and treated as something that's just fine, actually, and nothing to worry about or take too seriously....

But meanwhile, back at the fandom farm, everyone's still totally convinced that they're so superior to canon and doing things so much better than them and fixing all their mistakes....and its like....well then why are you MAKING the EXACT same mistakes, and what the hell are we supposed to do about it with YOU guys if unlike with canon (where we can criticize but it doesn't do much good because there's no guarantee of the people who need to see it actually seeing it), we're not supposed to bring it to your attention as 'criticism-worthy' (thus making the opposite problem of where we CAN bring it to the attention of people who can see it, but we're not 'supposed to' because fandom etiquette)?

And back to the whole thing about using a sibling abuse tag as a warning for people to steer clear if this isn't something they want in their dynamics between the Batbrothers, not just Bruce and his kids....

The thing that fucking gets me every time here, is like......THIS WOULD BE SUCH AN EASY PROBLEM TO FIX, IF PEOPLE WEREN'T JUST SO FREAKING EMBARRASSED TO ADMIT THEY ACCIDENTALLY WROTE IT WITHOUT NOTICING WHAT IT WAS IN THE FIRST PLACE.

Like that first example I used....I very naively DID try to bring it to the author's attention when I was new to dipping my toes back into this fandom, and boy oh boy did that just exemplify how counter-productive that is as long as people can hide behind the DONT CRITICIZE MY WORK shield. I sent a private message on Ao3 so it wouldn't even show up in their comments, and just said very simply:

"hey, I really enjoy your stuff but I was wondering if you would mind putting a warning tag of 'sibling abuse' on your latest fic? I'm not trying to tell you how to write the characters and I figure you probably didn't intend it to come across that way anyway, but as an abuse survivor, I can't help but see that dynamic pop out as such for me in a way that I would at least have liked a heads up about, if that makes sense? Its just I do see how you paralleled how the canon presented this scenario and thus get what you were trying to do there I think, but I kinda only came into this fic for the specific lure of the catharsis we DIDN'T get when things played out somewhat similar in canon, with a lot of it having to do with that dynamic between Dick and Jason, and so...yeah. This part of the comics is obviously emotionally charged for a lot of us and I just know personally, this wasn't quite the catharsis I was after for that scenario and just a quick tag like that would have helped warn me of that. Anyway, sorry for this and hope you can understand my position, I'm not trying to be heavy-handed here or anything, but this was a problem for me and just in case it might be a problem for anyone else in the future, I thought I'd try and send a quick message about that for you to do whatever you want with."

I mean, I thought I was pretty reasonable there, personally?

Yeah.

The author did not.

She went off on me for constructive criticism which she did not ask for, and did not appreciate my insinuations into her character about her being an abuse apologist, because that's clearly what I was saying there. But I mean, that's what happens here. I'd bet anything that she was just embarrassed to have written the dynamic in such a way and then been called out about something she was previously oblivious to and then felt self-conscious about having overlooked or perpetrated herself.

But like....as understandable as that is, like....that's not my problem? And that's not a reason to shut down ANY avenue for people to raise the issue when writers unknowingly perpetrate stuff like this, in ANY way, no matter HOW delicately.

I get being defensive about someone thinking you INTENDED to write a pair of brothers as abusive and saying that was fine, and I even get how, being in a defensive mindset, she could have jumped to that interpretation of what I was saying rather than what I was ACTUALLY saying which was just....look, I don't know you, I don't know your own story, but for whatever reason you didn't pick up on this potentially troubling element of what you wrote in ways that I did because of my own experiences, and I'm just trying to point the issue out as delicately as possible because I KNOW that chances are, you WOULDN'T have written things that way if you had at all perceived the dynamic as I did. And I also KNOW that for people who don't have necessarily the same experiences or perspective I do, that they're not going to be as naturally inclined to perceive trouble spots the way I'm kinda....primed to notice them, and its NATURAL for some of this to pass by peoples' notice for a variety of reasons and like....I'm not freaking mad about that?? That's FINE. That's NORMAL. You're not a bad person for writing something a 'problematic' way purely because you LITERALLY DIDN'T SEE THE PROBLEM WHEN YOU WROTE IT.

Nobody has universal experiences. Nobody has all experiences. The problem is almost NEVER somebody just WRITING something in a way that they 'should have' known better than to, especially when it comes to topics like abuse or whatever.

No, the problem is ONLY when they get all up in their butthurt feelings about being embarrassed that they DIDN'T omnisciently know that and they feel self conscious now about how they think it makes them look now that the issue HAS been raised in a way they can recognize, and so they just fucking double down on pretending there's no issue whatsoever and whomever brings it to their attention is just overstepping and who even asked, anyway.

And thus a problem that can easily be solved in TWO ways....1) by adding a simple tag acknowledging the problem area for what it is, or 2) by editing the problem area to erase or write around the issue it raises that the author didn't perceive initially and likely would have avoided from the start if they HAD, because they AREN'T someone who wants to stand KNOWINGLY by that implication and what it says or suggests.....

Instead, this problem just gets turned into a generic fandom discourse issue about critique etiquette that addresses absolutely nothing, changes nothing, makes nothing about any of this better for ANYONE, just extends the problem to one likely to be repeated over and over again because it WILL never change so long as it remains something that isn't SUPPOSED to have attention brought to it, and all of this.

All of this.

Is just self-conscious defensiveness because people didn't want to be perceived as someone who either actually thought the things they'd unknowingly implied for WHATEVER reason, or didn't care/pay enough attention to notice as a problem in the first place....

Or else they just literally DON'T care enough about the content of what they're writing enough that they actually GIVE a shit about becoming better informed on it and thus better able to steer away from troubling implications or points of view in the future. Even if pointed out by survivors or people with personal experience as such that they recognize a problem even where the author didn't themselvse, no matter WHAT their own personal relationship with the subject matter is -

(because yeah, survivors of rape and abuse can absolutely perpetuate harmful viewpoints ourselves as well, because experiencing these things doesn't take away from our being exposed to just as much of the abuse/rape culture and apologia society and media churns out regularly enough that it can cloud ANYONE'S mind on this subject, without the addition or input of other points of view).

And either way, no matter what the reason is, when people aren't willing to even ENTERTAIN input, feedback, or potentially negative or even just AWARENESS-RAISING viewpoints in response to culturally influencing fictional content they put out via a variety of fairly wide-reaching platforms that can thus reach and influence any number of mindsets, from those of survivors to potential survivors to friends or families of survivors to people with no connection to abuse or rape whatsoever currently but for whom that could change at any time because we all meet new people every day and survivors could come into your life and be affected by your views and knowledge of abuse and rape culture and apologism at any point, even if you never become a survivor yourself -

(as is my ardent wish for anyone no matter HOW much I dislike or disagree with them personally. I don't expect or WANT people to be as fully informed on a lot of this stuff as I am personally, just like I'm not like, sad about not being MORE informed on the aspects or experiences stemming from it all that aren't personally relevant to my own life, because I'm additionally very aware that my own viewpoint is not definitive and not the monolithic voice for all survivors everywhere, I've literally only ever advocated for my own perspective on these matters and anyone of a like-mind which is an entirely opt-in POV that people have to decide for THEMSELVES if they feel that applies to them versus something that I'm CLAIMING on behalf of anyone but myself) -

Anyway. Bottom line is whatever the reason for WHY people are so avoidant on this topic, the end result is we've created a culture that says people are allowed to craft fictional viewpoints on any topic in any way to any degree...but the only impact that can ever be acknowledged is positive. Nobody can point out where things can be better. Nobody can point out where things are just fucking WRONG. The entertainment of whomever wrote the thing and whomever reads it and ISN'T bothered by it in any way, is eminently more important and worth protecting than the comfort of anyone who reads the thing and is not only troubled by the viewpoint made or claims presented on a matter they're intimately acquainted with in some form or to some degree themselves.....but then merely wants their viewpoint and concerns acknowledged and made part of the conversation so that both writer and readers can potentially apply that viewpoint and ANY additional perspective or information it contains to future works.

In essence, for all the free speech and censorship talk that gets thrown around fandom spaces....THIS kinda thing RIGHT HERE?

Is the most self-evident example I can come up with of ACTUALLY shutting down conversation and the spread and dissemination of information relevant to the topics being raised as points of interest every. single. day. in this fandom and most every other one I can think of.

So if peoples' ACTUAL goal was creating spaces where the people for whom fictional content is actually MOST relevant to are encouraged and outright TOLD to try and separate their feelings from that relevancy and treat it all as an abstract.....

Just so that people for whom this content already IS an abstract and nothing more, can refrain from having it made real and thus reality-impacting, and in doing so take away some of the escapism and FUN of it all, and make it a little more 'heavy' than they wanted when they turned to it for a bit of self-indulgent angst they never intended or expected to treat (or see treated) as anything more than that?

Then its like, congrats. You did it guys. That's what you've got here. That's what you've made.

Yay.

Go team.