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what-goesaround-comesaround · 4 years

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Let's talk about some Irish newsies-

Hey! So I thought it'd be cool to look into the research I've found indicationg that some of the newsies might have Irish ties! (I'm Irish so that might explain my interest) I'm not an expert at all or anything, this is just the research I've collminated while scouring through newsies facts.

Oh course this isn't set in stone, this is just information I've found so if I've got anything wrong, please tell me! I was inspired by this post to do my own research. (A lot of my research has to do with the original movie but stick around for some fun facts about surnames?)

And now, onto Jack Kelly :

^This is David's description of Jack in Newsies : a novel by Jonathan Fast which can be found here on pg 9. Both surnames "Kelly" and "Sullivan" have their roots in Irish history.

^on pg 27 of the same book David describes Jack again as "an Irish boy". I just thought this would be worth noting, seeing how David wants to make it obvious to us, the reader that Jack appears to be Irish or of Irish descent.

"Kelly", originally anglicized from the Gaelic "Ó Ceallaigh" meaning 'descendant of Ceallach', an ancient Irish personal name, originally a byname meaning 'bright-headed' or 'troublesome' (fitting huh?) Source found here.

Fun fact for you livesies fans, the reigning chieftain of Ui Maine (mid Galway, South Roscommon, sometimes referred to as "O'Kelly's Country") O'Ceallaigh (c1351), was a renowned patron of the arts. Source found here.

Another fun fact : Jack means Seán in Irish.

Bet you weren't expecting that. Or maybe you were. Anyway, source is found here. I also remember it being a topic of conversation in 3rd class Irish class. Wonder how Spot and Jack would feel about that.

^On pg 23 of the original 1992 movie script found here Jack describes himself as a "mick" which was a commonly used derogatory term used against those of Irish decent/Irish immigrants at the time. However this line was not included in the movie. Source found here.

Now for "Sullivan". The original Irish for the surname Sullivan is O'Suileabhain, however the actual derivation of the name is debated. There is no doubt that the root word is 'suil' meaning eye, but whether it is to be taken as 'one-eyed' or 'hawk-eyed' is usually left an open question. Sources found here and here.

The surname is associated with the southwestern part of Ireland and was originally found in County Tipperary before the Anglo-Norman invasion. Source found here

Also, in both movie and stage versions Jack tells us his father "taught me not to starve" indicating his father may have taught Jack about the horrors of the Famine/An Drochshaol/The Great Hunger that plagued Irish families for years after. Source is found here.

Okay! On to Spot Conlon :

^This is David's description of Spot Conlon from the same book, pg 51 (okay he may not outright say he's Irish but they really said "throw all the stereotypes at him like red hair". But seriously in the Hard Promises script and the Newsies script he's described the same way. I guess they really invisioned that red hair huh?)

Spot is interesting seeing as he is the leader of the Brooklyn newsies, Brooklyn being an infamously known place for Irish immigrants to live due to the Great Hunger/An Drochshaol (translated meaning "Hard Times") or as it's more commonly known as "the potato famine" between 1845-1852. Source found here. At least 1 million people died from this and another 1 million immigrated, a lot to America (although the exact numbers are disputed.) Around this time New York becoming the busiest port city in the world. There was labor work to be had in Brooklyn, in the manufacturing and loading and unloading of goods to be sent around the country and around the world. Irish immigrants who had been left poor and malnourished by the famine had no other option but to take on this manual labour to earn money. Many took jobs by the ports and settled by the Watershed i.e. near the ports. This could be a reason to why we're first introduced to Spot and his "cronies" at the port in the movie. Source is found here and here.

Supposing Spot was born between 1880-1886 (he's quoted to be 14 in real life in this article however it's stated in the Newsies Novel on pg 51 to "be around Jack's age" and it's stated in original script before Newsies was rewritten to be a musical and was still a drama, "Hard Promises" he's quoted to be 19 on pg 28. So take this with a grain of salt.) the U.S. census, which counted both place of birth and parents’ birth place as well, estimated that one-third of all New Yorkers were of Irish parentage. By 1890 as Brooklyn neighborhoods were expanding east and south, the amount of people with Irish stock is at 196,372. Source found here.

Also how people will usually use the name "Seán" or sometimes "Patrick" for Spot (one of the fandom wiki pages cites it as his real name here but admits to having no proof of it). Both of these are traditional Irish first names, Patrick being popularised by the patron saint of Ireland St. Patrick/Pádraig. Might have heard of it-

Now for his surname.

Conlon is an Irish family name, it being a variation of the anglicised version of Ó Connalláin. The name may be derived from two Irish Gaelic words "Con" (the genitive case of Cú, meaning "hound") and "Lón" meaning lion - thereby implying a person who has the characteristics of a lion born of a hound - strength and speed. Source found here.

Conlon had a Gaelic form of Ó Conallain or Ó Coinghiollan in Connacht however it's Ó Caoindealbhain in Munster and Leinster. Fun fact, Connal or Connall is claimed to be a pet name for a sprout or little sprout. Source found here.

The history regarding the Conlon surname is complicated to say the least- however it can be traced back to County Meath, where the Conlon descendants are from an important sept near Trim, which traces back to Laoghaire, King of Ireland circa 432. O'Coindealbhain was also anglicised 'Quinlivan' in Munster. Source is found here and here.

This post isn't letting me include the video of Jack, David and Boots going to Brooklyn to negotiate with Spot and the Irish traditional music in the background but I'll make a separate post about that.

Now, onto Racetrack Higgins.

I'm going to keep this kind of brief. We know Racetrack is described as "tall, skinny gambling Italian beanpole" in the Hard Promises script on pg 1 and he's described as "an Italian beanpole" on pg 5 of the Newsies Script. However the surname "Higgins" is Irish as far as my research has told me, not Italian.

The real Ed "Racetrack" Higgins lived in Brooklyn and is quoted to be the real leader of the Brooklyn union, and was elected vice-president of the general union after Kid Blink and David Simmons were accused of selling out. Source found here. I haven't been able to find much information about Racetrack Higgin's life after the strike or his family life which could connect him to Ireland however I thought it would be interesting. If anyone is curious about the real Racetrack Higgins this source has been really useful!

'Higgins" is an Irish family name with ancient royal connections. It is an anglicisation of O'hUigin, from the Irish word 'uiginn' meaning Viking. The original holder of the name was a grandson of Niall of the Nine Hostages, High King of Tara, and all of the O'Higgins claim a common descent from him. Ancient records show that several members of the O'Higgins claimed a hereditary right to be file or poet in the courts of the Irish Chiefs and Kings. Source is found here and here.

Because of their loyalty to Gaelic culture and religion, the Higgins suffered under the English Crown in Ireland and had lost all their lands in Sligo and Westmeath by 1654. Some of them remained in Ireland as tenants on their own lands, but many of them migrated to Spain where they achieved high office in the service of the King. Source is found here.

Fun fact, Racetrack has the same surname as the current (9th) President of Ireland, Michael D. Higgins!

Lastly, on to Crutchy/ie Morris!

^This is from the 1991 original script of Newsies when it was called Hard Promises and was written to be a drama. Obviously this wasn't the movie that we have today but I thought this would be a cool add on. I couldn't find a lot of information about the real Crutch Morris, whom Crutchy/ie is based on. The surname Morris isn't strictly Irish, it's a popular surname throughout the British Isles however with this piece of information I thought it would make sense to research it anyway.

"Morris" (Ó Muiris in Irish) was introduced to Ireland by the Normans, along with the variant Firzmaurice (Mac Muiris). A branch of these Morrises moved to Galway in 1485 CE and later became one of the Tribes Of Galway. The name may also have been an abbreviation of Morrissey (Ó Muireasa), a branch of the Uí Fiachrach clan. Sources found here and here.

The ancient Irish name Ó Muirgheasa (variant Ó Muirghis), a personal name thought to derive from muir, meaning "sea" and geas, meaning "taboo" or "prohibition." Source found here.

The Morris family does have an Irish family crest/coat of arms which I'll post at a later date, further cementing themselves in Irish history.

This is most of the information I have regarding the origins of the characters and their surnames however I could go on about the music in Newsies, the family crests, the housing circumstances of poor Irish immigrants in New York at the turn of the 19th century ect.

If you want to learn more about what life was like for Irish immigrants in New York I recommend reading the non-fiction book The Gangs Of New York (or watching the movie. It isn't completely historically accurate but give a decent overview of what was life) or reading this article by the Irish Times.

I've barely scratched the surface of this topic and hope to go into it father in the future!

May I leave you with this gif of the boys doing some Irish (inspired) dancing and David with his twirl combo!

Ps. If the links aren't working for you I'd be happy to provide a list of the resources I’ve used throughout my research on a separate post if needs be.

pps. @maggs-is-a-muppet @annihilatedthenightstalker @newsies-bun @letter-from-the-refuge thanks for the motivation last night 😌

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yoimeta · 5 years

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Hi everyone! I noticed recently that the "KAZAKHSTAN 101 OR HOW TO OTABEK" post seems to have been taken off of tumblr? The author's whole blog seems to have been wiped. Do you know if this is archived anywhere? Is there a mirror, say, on Ao3?

Hello!

Thankfully, I managed to find what I believe is the original post. Here it is! The post is archived in plain text under the cut.

Hope this helps!

- Ji

Source: @sawyer-aik

KAZAKHSTAN 101 OR HOW TO OTABEK

THERE YOU GO YURI ON ICE FANDOM.

Disclaimer: this is in no way a fully comprehensive guide. This is just me trying to put together basics for people who are unfamiliar with Kazakhstan/Kazakhs to start their writing/research.

I am an ethnic Kazakh female, citizen of Kazakhstan, Almaty, bisexual, upper middle class, currently in college in the US. My experience is in no way representative of all kazakhs and Kazakhstan citizens. However, I think it’s pretty close to Otabek’s.

This is really, really long and kinda convoluted, but if you can bear it –– welcome!

Name: Many people have talked about Otabek’s name. This is how you shorten it –– “Bek”, “Beka”, or “Beks” if you wanna be really familiar and laid back.

Kazakhs don’t have middle names, we have patronymics. They are formed like this: the father’s name + ‘uly’ if the child is a boy or ‘kyzy’ is the child is a girl. For example, Otabek’s childrens’ patronymics would be Otabekuly and Otabekkyzy.

About Almaty and almatinians: Ok I’m so happy Otabek is from Almaty, I really don’t know much about life in other cities or rural areas. Almatinians rarely do. Comparing Almaty lifestyle to the rest of Kazakhstan is the same as comparing NYC to the rest of America –– it’s not representative of the quality of life in the country, like, at all.

Almaty has 2.5+ million population, and it grows every year. It’s a cultural and economic centre of the country. Apples originate from Almaty (!!!), hence the name from “Alma” –– apple. Almatinians are usually stereotyped as fast, brash and snobby –– kinda like New Yorkers, right? Almaty is much more tolerant and progressive, and also more ‘Western’ than the rest of the country in terms of mindset. Almatinians kinda look down on non-Almatinians, and really dislike the capital Astana because of all the funding and attention it gets.

Almaty has a great ethnic diversity –– main groups are Kazakhs, Russians, Uygur, Koreans, Germans, Jews, Uzbek, and many more. Though stereotypical jokes are generally acceptable, outright hate and discrimination against an ethnic group is not tolerated. Many foreigners visit here for business –– mostly Americans, Western Europeans and Chinese.

Almatinians love: coffeeshops, mall sales, cool cars (Hello Otabek’s motorcycle), smoking hukkah and vaping. They are usually concerned with status and try to show off their wealth. You can see people of all kind of different style and background in Almaty, fashion shows are held there, contemporary art and indie-music congregates there, along with all kinds of fancy ass crowd. It is a really interesting and kinda exhausting scene, especially if you are young and wanna have fun.

Language, culture, food, etc.

As an Almatinian Kazakh, Otabek is definitely fluent in both Russian and Kazakh, and probably has a very good grasp on English. He is a master of shala kazakh. Shala kazakh is a magic language that only city Kazakhs are privy to. It’s basically a wild mix of kazakh, russian and some fashionable english slang thrown in there. It’s usual for me to start a conversation with “OMG bro” and then kinda pull my speech together, substituting kazakh and russian words with each other and pepper it with “cool”, “ok” and other english exclamations. It’s not grammatically correct and is kinda lowbrow, but we all do it. Yes, even our parents. This is how Otabek sounds when he is talking to someone from home. Terrifying.

Nuclear family: City Kazakhs usually have two or three kids. That’s less than people have in rural areas. Children are important in Kazakh culture because they carry the family’s bloodline and history, especially boys. If you headcanon Otabek as having brothers and sisters, you are probably right! His family should be at least sort of wealthy to afford all the expenses of having a professional athlete for a child. Otabek has an expensive bike and his clothes look high-end –– he is definitely not poor.

Family in general. Kazakhs are close, VERY CLOSE to their family. Mind you, family is not just parents and siblings but also your grandparents, aunts and uncles and like all 173 cousins and nieces and nephews. Everyone is ridiculously involved in your life, always there with advice and complaints. You stay connected to your parents when you move out, when you get married, when you have kids, when you DIE. When Otabek misses the weekly skype dates or check-in phone calls, HE IS SHAMED SO HARD. Do you know grandma is worried about you, think about how old she is! Otabek’s relatives brag about his achievements like they moved him up the career ladder personally, with their own two hands. There’s nothing Otabek can really do about it tho he gets annoyed

Food: city Kazakhs have a very diverse cuisine. Traditional kazakh food is like 50% batter and 50% meat and takes long ass time to prepare so we reserve it for the holidays. My family loves fish, russian dishes such as borsht and blini, Uzbek lagman, Korean kimchi tho we try to avoid pork. And it’s not like we choose one day as a “Russian cuisine day”, we just kinda??? Deside to have some borsht today?? Almaty has lots of different restaurants, almatinians love sushi, pizza and pasta, shashlyk, all kinds of experimental foods and trying new things. Kumys –– mare’s milk –– is one of the things you should try in Kazakhstan as a turist, but I know many kazakhs who have never had it or don’t like it. They say it’s really good for you tho.

Holidays: ethnic Kazakhs in Kazakhstan celebrate: birthdays, New Years, Eid al-Adha which we call Kurban Bairam, Independence Day on December 16th and Nauryz on March 22nd. Young people kinda have get togethers on Halloween because it’s fun and a reason to hang out. Nauryz is one of my faves, it’s a pagan holiday of coming of spring and new life. On Nauryz, Almaty is adorned with flowers, yurts and giant swings are set on the city square, people wear traditional clothing and dance and play and eat a lot. My family also ended up celebrating Eastern Orthdox Christmas and Easter because each year our Russian friends invite us to hang out and celebrate with them, lol.

LGBTQIA+

Main principle is “Don’t ask, don’t tell”. General conflict avoidance protocols are in place. I personally know like 3 LGBT friendly hubs/clubs in Almaty. Nobody explicitly says “gay clubs” but people just kinda know what and where those are. There are get togethers and meetings you can attend to meet people, you can hang out with your significant other in public, hug, hold hands and no one would probably say anything. Colleges and universities are generally safe places, many of my friends are out in their college and don’t face any trouble. PDA will be frowned upon, but all PDA is generally frowned upon in Kazakhstan, even hetero. Feminist and sex-positive initiatives try to educate the populace and break the status quo, and are doing really well but the government’s disposition is homophobic. If your family is religious or traditional, they probably wouldn’t go as far as disowning you, but will probably pressure and guilt-trip you. LGBT+ youth generally plan to move somewhere else or just not settle. All of this is Almaty situation tho. Being LGBT in rural area is much more dangerous.

THE BEST PART: VOCABULARY

Ok this is what I find to be the easiest way to explain Kazakh to English speakers: think Turkish but written in cyrillic, with words borrowed from Arabic and Russian.

Endearments:

zhanym, жаным: my soul. Zhanym is everything to a Kazakh. You can use it for your family, friends, SO, I called my laptop zhanym today. It can be flirty, it can be serious. If you need Otabek to be affectionate with someone, use zhanym.

ainalaiyn, айналайын: really hard to translate but something like my precious?? Usually used towards small kids, but also if a Kazakh finds something really cute.

altynym, my golden baby. I love this one for obvious reasons, lol, hi, Otabek.

Mahabbatym, махаббатым, my love +

Suiktim, сүйіктім. my love, my dear. Kinda old fashioned but really romantic. I can see Otabek using this, but he will be teased and called an old sap if he does.

Kazakh have a lot more endearments, but most of them are for children.

Basic interaction and exclamations:

Iya. Ия. Yes.

Zhok. Жоқ. No

Rakhmet. Рахмет. Thank you.

Keshir. Кешір. Sorry.

Salem, Сәлем. Hello. A familiar greeting.

Sau bol, Сау бол. Literally “Be well” but actually means goodbye. Pretty familiar too.

O Kudai, О Құдай/O Allah, О Алла! Oh my god, obviously. Used in all kinds of different situations.

Oibai, Ойбай! How does one explain oibai. When a friend jump scares you, when you receive bad news, when you check your bank account –– oibai!

Abai bol, Абай бол. Be careful, is what your mom tells you when you go out.

Expletives and Swear Words. Yeeaaah the juicy stuff.

Zhyndy, Жынды. Crazy. If someone is being stupid or inappropriate, you call them zhyndy. When you tell a dumb joke at the familty table, mom smacks you upside the head and hisses “Ooooi, zhyndy!” When Jean-Jaques is acting a fool and makes out with his reflection, Otabek rolls his eyes and mutters “Zhyndy”.

Akymak. Ақымақ. Idiot. When someone is just dumb and not worth your time.

Ittin balasy. Иттің баласы. Child of a dog. It can be as harmless as “you pup” and as offensive as “son of a bitch” depending on the situation.

Kotindy kys. Көтіңді қыс. Squeeze you ass. God I love this one. When someone being an obnoxious wannabe, tell them they should squeeze their ass and check themselves.

Jean-Jaques: I am gonna be the King of the Grand Prix!

Otabek: Kotindy kys.

Shygasyn ba?! Шығасың ба?! You wanna go bro?! Ohh, someone is gonna catch these Kazakh fists.

Sigil. Сігіл. Basically go fuck yourself.

Sheshen ahmy/Sheshen sigem. Шешең амы/Шешең сігем. Your mother’s c*nt/Imma fuck your mother. REALLY FUCKING OFFENSIVE. Say this to a Kazakh if you have a death wish.

——————————————————————————————-

AND THEEEEEEERE YOU GO.

Again, this is just the basics. Do more research and talk to as many Kazakhs and Kazakhstani people as you can. We are a different but usually an interesting bunch. Thanks for your attention, Sawyer out!

#yoimeta #solosvejs #answered #Otabek Altin #yoi meta

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