#inaccurate hobbit

[ironmandeficiency]

bilbo, after thorin’s death: i have decided to give up on love and put all of that energy into tomatoes

[hopefullystillliving]

Blocking annoying tags is self care, especially if you have an idea of who is a Trusted Mutual who would not be reblogging something from Annoying Tag and therefore it's likely just OP overtagging and it's safe to Click Button.

[barikinbear]

Another reblog to keep it from getting lost

Gandalf: *secretly collecting all the balrog XP to level up*

Boromir: *dies*

Frodo & Sam: *sharing in a coming of age buddy film plot*

Merry & Pippin: *kidnapped by orcs*

Legolas, Aragorn & Gimli: let’s go hunt some orcs :)

[buffyfan145]

Just wanted to say something about the very spoilery Haladriel picture we got today of the season 2 "Rings of Power" from Bear McCreay's video of the music from the s2 finale as I've already seen some of those "fans" saying about how inaccurate it is to the books which I will say yes it never happened in the books, however there is likely a way why this happens and it still doesn't change that much especially when you take the movies into account. Posting behind a cut as again it's major spoilers from the season 2 finale.

So we see in the picture that Galadriel reveals she's Nenya's ringbearer to Sauron/Annatar. It's after their fight scene that was revealed in the final trailer last week. We still don't know for sure what is going on but I will point out in the books Sauron never knew who the elven ringbearers were. It's likely he figured it out over the years but the books never said that.

Other fans did point out though that the reveal that he didn't know who got the elven rings is from "The Silmarillion", which the show doesn't have the rights too. They can ask for special permissions, which they did for s1 and 2 including using the name Annatar, but they only really have access to the appendices from the LOTR trilogy books. In those it's not said if Sauron knew or not so there's the loophole they've used now so he not only knows Galadriel has Nenya but he also sees it. It's also possible he helped design it as the show also changed to where he helped the elves as Halbrand and they were going to make 2 rings, which Galadriel was going to get.

So in the context of the show this works that he finds out she did accept Nenya and the ring he likely designed for her ended up with her. I don't think he'll know who has the other 2 rings, except maybe Elrond years later in the 3rd Age. It also weirdly synchs up with "The Hobbit" movies and that confrontation with Galadriel and Sauron in it as she used Nenya in front of him. It also adds to their mental bond that lasts till the end of the 3rd Age too and him always trying to contact her and see her.

This also brings me to the song "The Last Temptation" on the s2 soundtrack and if it really is going to be a Haladriel song and possibly this scene we see in the photo. The soundtrack is out on August 23rd so we might get more clues from it. Also this is going to be a long wait for this scene as it'll air October 3rd, but we already saw a preview of this scene in that poster of Galadriel, and I'm sure we'll get more hints as the season goes on and what exactly is happening.

[monbons]

WIP Wednesday

Thanks for the tag @rimeswithpurple. I would totally pay millions for that sweater. It's even my signature color!

So.... I know I said I'd be gone until mid-September, but this was a good writing week and I was too excited not to WIPSday it up.

Mr. Bons took the Little Bons away for part of the weekend, so I cranked out words like it was my job. Apparently all I had to do to banish the awful writer's block I've been battling since early summer was go back to my actual job and lose all my oodles of free time. Figures.

In all seriousness, I wrote approximately 10k words of "The Boy Next Door" this past week (formerly known as "Baz in a Bubble"), and I am one chapter away from finalizing a rough draft. I still have LOTS of revising ahead of me so that the fic reads pretty instead of just plotty, but I can't believe the end is in sight. Excellent timing honestly. Once this wraps up, I can dedicate all of my time to my COTTA and CORB collabs.

Enjoy a quick excerpt of Baz POV I wrote this weekend below the cut.

Agatha is attacking my wardrobe with a single-mindedness that is frankly admirable, sorting everything into two piles: offensively-out-of-fashion and acceptable-in-dire-emergencies. The former pile is significantly larger than the latter. Meanwhile, Simon is sitting on my bed, watching the whole thing with a smug grin on his face.  “I still don’t understand why any of this is necessary.” I rescue my beloved Sex Pistols hoodie from the pile I am quickly growing to suspect will end up in the bin and clutch it to my chest. “Your wardrobe should be an expression of your soul.” Agatha picks up a pair of paint-stained joggers and grimaces. “Right now, your attire screams ‘depressed hobbit.’” “That feels brutally inaccurate.” I take the joggers and clutch those too. 

Until next we meet! @thewholelemon, @bookish-bogwitch, @cutestkilla, @raenestee, @roomwithanopenfire

@emeryhall, @iamamythologicalcreature, @hushed-chorus, @rimeswithpurple, @mooncello

@artsyunderstudy, @aristocratic-otter, @arthurkko, @best--dress, @brilla-brilla-estrellita

@run-for-chamo-miles, @supercutedinosaurs, @whatevertheweather, @talentpiper11, @larkral

@shrekgogurt, @you-remind-me-of-the-babe, @youarenevertooold, @blackberrysummerblog, @messofthejess

@drowninginships, @valeffelees, @orange-peony, @facewithoutheart, @alexalexinii

@ic3-que3n, @skeedelvee, @fiend-for-culture, @beastmonstertitan, @melodysmash

@martsonmars, @katatsumuli, @comesitintheclover, @stitchyqueer

@erzbethluna, @palimpsessed, @ileadacharmedlife, @theimpossibledemon

@thehoneyedhufflepuff, @letraspal, @rbkzz, @noblecorgi

[sunnyshinesunshine]

Okay so I’ve finally solidified my opinion on The Rings of Power and given that it is my opinion it is therefore very important and I’m sure everyone is dying to hear it (this is sarcasm)

I’ll start by saying I’m not a critical person when it comes to things. I consume media to enjoy myself, not to pick apart its literary or thematic flaws. It’s fine if you do, but that’s just not me.

I will also say I’ve never read the Fall of Númenor as its own story, so any Tolkien primary sources I’m vaguely alluding to (this isn’t a research paper been there done that got the high school diploma I bake cookies for a living I ain’t citing shit thanks <3) are the Silmarillion, LoTR, and The Hobbit.

I didn’t like TROP for the first season, but after catching up on S2, I’ve come to enjoy it.

S1 is the full of world building, setting up the political stage and the relationships between the characters that lead to the creation of the rings and all the other bad hullabaloo that ends in the Last Alliance.

Safe to say, I spent the whole time going ‘what? why is he/she/them saying/believing/acting like this? why is it/this portrayed like this???’ and felt very irked by the whole thing.

S2, the rings are being created, familiar events start happening, the puzzle pieces from S1 that were so unfamiliar and bothersome to me then come together to create a picture that I knew.

Once I got to thinking I realized I actually know a whole lot less about the fall of numenor and the creation of the rings than I thought I did.

When Tolkien writes about those events, he gives the broad strokes in a very history-book way. Celebrimbor creates the rings because he is deceived by Sauron. Tar-Míriel is overthrown by Ar-Pharazôn and marries him against his will. Elrond is with Gil-Galad as his herald.

These are the things, amongst others, that we know. Unlike in the Hobbit or LoTR, we aren’t given any glimpses into the heads or relationships of the characters in anything other than what amounts to almost a timeline of events.

This, of course, leaves a lot of room for Tolkien fans to ask questions. Questions that can be answered through imagination. Imagination becomes ideas, ideas become discussions, discussions become a collective understanding of what happened (fanon*. I’m talking fanon. please read the note at the end because I think fanon is awesome and deserves to be defended)

For example. We know Celebrimbor and Narvi built the Doors of Durin together and added possibly the most ridiculous riddle password possible.

When the Doors are first introduced in LoTR, it is also in the middle of Gimli and Legolas’ semi feuding, and before both of them have some serious moments regarding their histories and cultures (Khazad-Dûm and Lothlórien respectively).

All of this to conclude that at some point between Gigolas’s inter-species feuding and the password to the damn doors being ‘mellon’, as Tolkien fans, we came to the conclusion that Celebrimbor and Narvi were close friends.

Celebrimbor and Narvi are not really much more than acquaintances in TROP. And that isn’t inaccurate. The source material doesn’t have an opinion on it really.

Fanon says Celebrimbor and Narvi were pals. TROP says they weren’t. Canon doesn’t care either way.

I mention this example to explain why TROP felt so wrong especially at the beginning. Essentially we, or at least I, had this idea of how things should be, and when TROP diverged from that I felt lost and annoyed.

Now, I find watching TROP to be honestly kind of fascinating, like watching someone else painting using a model and comparing it to the painting I had already created of that same model.

It’s kind of fun. And every Elrond deserves all of us cheering him on.

*about Fanon:

I love fanon it’s awesome and great and it’s fucking collective story telling in a way that hasn’t really existed in modern times. Thousands of people from all over the world create and agree and discuss and add on to stories. The marauders fandom is almost completely fanon and that’s wonderful. Every single one of you who share your ideas about characters or settings or clothes or even (especially) who create the elleths who exist in the Silmarillion but don’t at the same time, you are awesome.

You’ve created a story and world together. Without being paid. You’ve agreed and created simply for the love of creation. And that’s so amazing.

Fanon is awesome and I don’t care for anyone who calls it cringe.

[olderthannetfic]

I know about the origins of the Bechdel Test, but I do think it's inaccurate to say it's not meant as a criticism of movies that don't do that. I think that when people stop thinking in binary terms of "is this feminist?" or "is this anti-feminist?" and instead look at things more holistically, that you can recognize both that a character like Mako Mori is great, a step in the right direction for female characters in action movies and especially WOC, go forth and stan her and write all the fanfic you want.... but yeah, it is also a valid criticism of the movie (and many others like it) that she doesn't talk to or have relationships with any other woman in the film.

I think one thing to help people realize just HOW much of women's lives are being left out of media representation when we never talk to other named women about something other than a man in movies, is to just think about your own life. I talk to my mom every day, and if we are not talking about my stepdad or my brother-in-law (and I don't think we've ever had a conversation that wasn't at least IN PART not about them or another man), then it passes the test. I'm a professor and when I talk to a female student about her homework or project (which is, again, something that happens pretty much every day I teach), that's passing the test. If I order food from a female cashier and she has a name tag, that's passing the Bechdel Test! It's literally just constant for the vast majority of women on the planet, and that's what's being left out of our stories.

Like, I like the takes I've seen about how part of the joke in Dykes to Watch Out For is that this is *particularly* alienating to lesbians - as a lesbian myself I agree - but I also think it should be frustrating to straight and bi and ace women as well, because like unless you are like exclusively interacting with your husband or male relatives every single day + you work in a workplace where you are literally the only woman, you are almost certainly passing the test constantly. That's a pretty big part of women's lives that Hollywood is leaving out!

But I think it's important to view it as just one piece of the discussion about feminism and women's representation in film, not the final judge on if a film is feminist or not. Which it wasn't intended to be - as you said, it was mostly a joke on the extreme maleness of 80s action movies. Honestly, I do not miss those days on Tumblr where people were obsessed with declaring certain movies/TV shows/other fandoms they liked as "feminist" or "anti-feminist" and the really bizarre granular discussions people would have between two works that BOTH had a long way to go in terms of representing women. I remember people in the Fullmetal Alchemist fandom would use this to argue about if the original anime or Brotherhood/the manga was better - when both have some fantastic female supporting characters, but are ultimately male-centered stories where even a lot of those women's lives and stories are centered around their male love interests and family members. It's better than a lot of shounen, but if that's your bar for feminism - either version - you have a long way to go (and need to watch WAY more anime because there's sooooo much of it that is female-centric). I also remember people coming up with other tests that were blatantly silly: like I thought the Mako Mori test about "if a woman has a motivation/story that isn't centered on a man" was fair because it did point out a legitimate criticism, but there was that ridiculous "Tauriel Test" where it was "a woman who is good at her job." And it was entirely about someone just disliking that movie critics and feminist commentators alike were down on the Hobbit movie trilogy, which a) were bad movies, sorry you have bad taste, b) are absolutely not where you should focus your attention if you're so concerned about women's representation in film, Tolkein has always been a sausage fest! And her big thing was being mad that people thought Judi Dench's M in Skyfall was a better female character, and so she arbitrarily decided she was "bad at her job" and Tauriel was "good at her job" even though that's completely subjective and can be challenged in both cases.... but also, once again, why are you looking to the fucking JAMES BOND franchise for movie feminism! There's nothing like comparing the relative "feminism levels" of JAMES BOND and LOTR to make it obvious that this is 100% about validating your subjective taste preferences by giving it a "progressive" excuse, not actually about feminism and not actually caring about women's representation beyond how it makes you look good. And yet SO many people took that transparently stupid post seriously. I'd see professional articles mention the Tauriel Test as "one of the new tests" like there was anything serious about it.

And then on the flip side, over-reliance on the Bechdel Test alone led to some clueless conclusions especially in anime fandom, given that anime has an abundance of shows that exclusively feature female characters in school clubs being cute, where those characters are nonetheless two-dimensional archetypes designed for the male gaze. Someone like fandomsandfeminism did a presentation at an anime con that called one of those types of shows "feminist" and some Japanese user eviscerated it, but that just led to the equally shallow fandom analysis of "everything a Japanese person says about anime is automatically more valid" and "any Westerner who wants to criticize anime on feminist/progressive grounds is culturally appropriating and ultimately coming from a place of ignorance, even if they literally have a degree in Asian studies."

Wow, this turned into a rant about the history of bad "feminist media criticism" on this website. Sorry about that, I think I had a point in here somewhere. I guess that the Bechdel Test is indeed a joke and those origins should be understood, but also, I don't think it's wrong to say that it identifies a real problem and one that people could probably take MORE seriously than they do - but as just one part of the conversation, not the Feminism Litmus Test, and certainly not as a dick-measuring contest about whose fandom gets them more progressive brownie points.

--

I think as long as we grasp that the joke is "The bar is so far under the ground that we might as well go home and eat popcorn there", it's fine.

The real issue with the test is that people started thinking a pass was meaningful.

If you say something like "X% of 2020s movies can't even manage this weaksauce level of women existing", that's a meaningful statistic. Even if you got a couple of data points wrong, you're not factually wrong enough for it to matter because X is going to be some massive, massive percentage, and the overall trend is so clear.

But a pass is nothing to celebrate, and that's where we went wrong.

Like you say, litigating which of two big franchises that barely do anything with women wins on tumblr points is idiocy.

I think people are so unaware of what media that genuinely centers women even looks like that it's hard for them to even begin having a discussion.

I personally have been a massive fujoshi type from adolescence, and media that centers female characters isn't actually what I typically want. (Though media that is by and for women and that doesn't give a fuck what men think of this is.) I am also not much of a fan of slice of life in general...

But when I was coming out and figuring my shit out, being able to go buy collections of Dykes to Watch Out For was incredibly valuable to me.

Ditto the other lesbian comic books that were just sitting there in the bookstore. I'm sure if I went back and reread them all now, I could find things to nitpick or ways they were more for lesbians and less for me as a bi girl, but the really distinctive thing they did was let me exist in a world where media isn't all 80s sausagefest action movies where women are not people.

In fact, they were a world where men don't matter terribly much—not because they're dramatically rejecting men in some facile and reactionary way but because... who cares? They just had other priorities... and this was normal.

It feels like people who've never taken a vacation from really mainstream media just have no concept of what it would feel like to exist in some other space.

And I think that's a pity even if, like me, they later choose to go read mostly BL later instead of focusing on female characters or they genuinely love trash 80s action movies despite everything wrong with them. It's not just sexist media that's the issue: it's that feeling like the fish can't see the water it's swimming in.

[tathrin]

My little Tolkien-fic pet-peeve of the day? Writers calling elves, dwarves, or hobbits men or women in their* narration.

"Pippin shaded his eyes, squinting until the sight of the man walking up the road resolved itself into the familiar form of his cousin Merry..."

Hobbit. Just say Hobbit. You don't need to gender everything. Or if you must, then "Hobbit-lad" or "Hobbit-lass" how's that? Or person! Being! Individual! Literally any word that isn't an inaccurate use of the word "man" for someone who is not a man!

"Gimli looked up at the taller man and scoffed at the sight of Legolas's pointed ears, now drooping with dismay..."

See this one just sounds silly, doesn't it? Silly and also confusing! Because you've just called Legolas a man, but clearly you're talking about an elf or he wouldn't have pointed ears, now would he? And Gimli's a dwarf! So why did you say "man" at all? There are no men here! (Unless Aragorn is playing Third Wheel in the background I suppose, but that's neither here-nor-there right now.)

"Glorfindel turned upon the edge of the fountain and greeted the other man with a smile like a sunrise..."

No no no stop, they are not men. Neither of them are men. They're elves. That's kind of a big important plot element in fact, that the Firstborn and the Secondborn are distinct and sundered from one another, please don't call elves men it's weird and awkward and often confusing because then I'll think you're talking about "A Man" but no, you mean an elf but you said man and it's just so off-putting...

They're different species, guys! (This drives me nuts in scifi too. Stop with the humanocentricism! You're not the Galactic Empire!) Replace the word "man" with something else and see how silly it sounds. "Elephant," perhaps; or any other species that isn't the one you're actually talking about.

"Gimli looked up at the taller raccoon and scoffed..."

"Glorfindel greeted the other ant-eater with a smile like a sunrise..."

"The sight of the giraffe walking up the road resolved itself into his cousin Merry..."

See? Yeah, that's how inaccurate it feels to me every time I read the word "man" or "woman" when you're talking about somebody who is not a human. It's not something on the level of squick where I'll reverse out of a fic if I see it, no, but it absolutely is jarring enough to throw-off the rhythm and mood of the story, for me.

(And if I see it in the first line or so before I've gotten invested in the story...yeah. That'll get me out of a fic almost as fast as lack of paragraph-breaking.)

Because I'm such a sucker for world building, I suspect, and the fact that these are all different peoples with different cultures and capabilities and outlooks and understanding and history and everything is such an interesting and important aspect of Middle-earth to me...and lumping all these different folks into one thing like that as though gender is the most important and indeed only notable aspect of their identity, and overrides everything else about them is just weird. It doesn't make sense. And I do not like it.

(Exceptions obviously made for when the character's identity is being deliberately obscured or confused, and they are erroneously thought to be a human and then revealed as something else; that sort of thing is on purpose and thus is fine.)

(Also exceptions for folk like Arwen or Elwing or Elladan etc who straddle the line between species.)

Anyway thank you for coming to this session of Tathrin Whines About Little Things To Avoid Doing Productive Writing Today.

*none of these lines are actual examples taken from real fics; I made them up for this post. Please do not attach call-outs to actual fics or authors in the notes. No need to be mean!

But absolutely fell free to gripe along with me if this silly little world building detail bothers you too. Or laugh at me for being a ridiculous spec-fic nerd. I'm fine with that too!

[hesgirf]

omg finally reading the hobbit & i knew the movies were inaccurate but i didn’t realize just HOW inaccurate 💀💀💀

[novasillies]

✨ rules: list your ten favorite characters from ten separate fandoms, then tag ten people!

gonna live life on the edge cause I don't KNOW ten people but thank u always @patolemus for tagging me kisses kisses RULES WERE MADE TO BE BROKEN!!!

It's a very even tie between Theo Raeken, Peter Hale, and Stiles Stilinski from Teen Wolf. Don't try to make me choose.

2. Stanford Pines from Gravity Falls. No one does it quite like him.

3. Thorin Oakenshield from The Hobbit (specifically the Peter Jackson trilogy because I'm uncultured). I have a cardboard cutout of him in my room. It annoys me that he's inaccurately tall.

4. Howard 'Howie' 'Chimney' Han from 9-1-1 (Chim... heart eyes emoji dreamy sigh delighted giggle uproarious laughter) (genuinely every other character is tied second but Athena, Bobby, Hen, and Karen especially are like glowing. blindingly.)

5. Oswald Cobblepot from Gotham (he's JUST LIKE ME FR.)

6. Q from the Daniel Craig James Bond films. GUGAURFDHJ

7. Rose Larkin from The Night Agent.

8. Hannibal Lecter from NBC's Hannibal.

9. Derek Morgan from Criminal Minds (or Garcia, my lawfully wedded wife.)

10. Mac Mcdonald from It's Always Sunny in Philidelphia (OH MY GOD HOW DID I FORGET ABOUT THIS SHOW. All of the gang is tied, actually.)

conclusion: white man apocalypse. genuinely what the frick.

[ironmandeficiency]

bilbo: he’s so handsome. so thoughtful… i wonder what he’s thinking about

thorin: wednesday? wed-nes-day? whensday?

[tickles-ivory]

It’s cool that you’re writing a western, but could I request you please try and be wary when portraying native Americans as savages and cruel? Putting the orcs as native Americans is very uncomfortably similar to that… thank you for your time.

My husband is Native American. Chickasaw. I am very aware of the mostly inaccurate stereotypes. But this story is Middle Earth placed in 1892 America. The Orcs are who they are. I'm not comparing them to Native Americans. They are just native to Middle Earth in 1892 America. They are cruel and Azog is vicious because Tolkien wrote them like that. I've just added a little humanization to them like I have the elves and dwarves, and hobbits. I have made no comparisons or references offensive to the Native American culture. Are you reading the story?

[saephrond]

Headcanon Tag Game

Thank you for tagging me, @meluiloth! This was a fun one.

Use this headcanon generator to generate a few headcanons for your characters/ocs, and explain how accurate or inaccurate they are.

Saephrond is a horrible liar.

Accurate. Although he's capable of telling white lies or concealing important/private information, he stumbles over his words when not being honest. He avoids eye contact, uses sarcasm, or will outright laugh.

Saephrond wakes up on November 1st and starts decorating for Christmas.

Absolutely not. He's a Scrooge McGrinch. No, he really is. Nevermind that he has a green & red outfit he likes to don during the Yule Festival, an Elk of Festive Spirit, a Yule hobby-horse, tons of Yule housing decorations...

"Don't forget to leave cookies and milk out for...me."

Saephrond instinctively cleans messes in their own house as well as other peoples.

Legit. He's pretty organised when it comes to living spaces and will get some sort of complex if things are out of place. Due to this, he'll clean up anywhere he's a guest, believing the owners to be as uncomfy in their own mess as he is. This especially goes for a few of his hoarding hobbit friends.

Lol. I think each was accurate enough. He both hates and loves the holiday season, so that's the only one that was a little interesting to answer. He generally isn't into it, but enjoyed celebrating it with someone in the past, which is why he has so many personal items themed around it.

Overall, I enjoyed this one. Admittedly, I skipped over one that said something to the extent of, "Saephrond knows every word to Let It Go." No.

Tagging: @rangers-arecool, @elgaladwen, @angbands-last-hero, @finchlette, @chaos-corvus and everyone else!

[louisblue02]

i know i said i said i would stay out of the drawn together fandom until the show is complete due to my bias, but i recently rewatched Pixels (2015) because it's now on netflix i guess and i was wondering if Xandir would like it because he's a parody of video games and Pixels (2015) is largely centered around/based off 80's video games

first off, I’d just like to say that I’m sorry again if me or anyone else in the fandom was a little harsh or standoffish to you, and you’re welcome to interact with DT content and the fandom whenever you’d like! I’m also glad whoever that you are able to acknowledge the little double standard between characters like Hero and Spanky and stuff like that. Secondly, I love Pixels omg!!! However, I’m not sure if the DT gang would be aware of its existence since the show takes place in the early 2000’s iirc. However IF THEY DID I feel Xandir would either find movies like that inaccurate and like pick every detail apart OR he’d absolutely adore them because he too is a parody and has some inaccuracies as well. I always end up focusing more on the fantasy side of Xandir and associate him with movies like The Dark Crystal, The Hobbit, The Last Unicorn, Labyrinth, and so on given he’s like an elven species so I honestly never thought of this before! I hope this made sense I’m bad with words lol

[edennill]

People complaining that hobbits having potatoes is inaccurate because that's not an European food will never stop being funny to me, because not only do things in Middle-Earth not need to work exactly like they do irl, but also: the people of Gondor and Arnor did discover this world's version of the Americas -- they just quickly turned away in disgust that it's more normal, boring, mortal lands and that, by implication, Valinor and Númenor are truly gone.

[cheesycheesyches]

so the hobbit movies are so so inaccurate to the books but they're also just really fun and i love the smaug content because we need more smaug there's never enough of him and also when his turn came in the movie holy moly i've never wanted anything to pet me so bad in my entire life