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dailylogyn · 3 years ago

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Logyn Meta: Loki & Sigyn’s Family in Myth and Marvel (Comparison)

Photo Source: https://www.deviantart.com/youkai-no-shimo/art/Colouring-LOKI-s-FAMILY-260392721

The family that is ready to begin Ragnarok in order to defend your honor. It’s a tragic tale, but family is something worth fighting for!

Follow me as we explore this crazy, wonderful family that is probably the most famous of the Myth’s.

We may not know much about Sigyn’s side, but Loki’s side is one that legends are made of.

From the Norse Myths, to Marvel Comics and the MCU, we will see the similarities and differences for each member in the different universes as well as learn facts about each one and why they are important.

Laufey (or Nál) - Loki’s Mother

NORSE MYTHOLOGY

She is Loki’s Mother in Mythology.

Mostly mentioned by the matronymic, “Loki Laufeyjarson” meaning: Loki Laufey’s Son.

Her name (Laufey) is typically thought to mean leaves/foilage. Nal means Needle.

Not much is known about her. We don’t even know if she was a Goddess, human or giant so it is assumed Loki gets his godhood from her.

In the poem Sörla þáttr, Nál and Laufey are portrayed as the same person: "She was both slender and weak, and for that reason she was called Nál [Needle]."

Laufey is listed among Ásynjar (goddesses) in one of the þulur, an ancestry that perhaps led her son Loki to be "enumerated among the Æsir", as Snorri Sturluson puts it in Gylfaginning.

Related to nature like forests and leaves.

MARVEL COMICS (Earth 616)

Laufey is Loki’s Father in this universe.

As Loki was born small, a motive of embarrassment for his parents, his existence was kept a secret.

A younger Loki sends Laufey into a fateful battle between Odin, leading the All-Father to claim Loki as a son. Laufey was left for dead, wounded, but alive, leaving a future Loki to kill him.

A group of Frost Giants try to revive Laufey by retrieving his skull. It ends with Malekith performing a spell to resurrect King Laufey.

Laufey hates Loki and thinks of him as a disgrace

It ends with Loki killing his father again after he tries to steal the Casket of Winters and kill Frigga.

MARVEL CINEMATIC UNIVERSE (MCU)

Same as Marvel Comics Counterpart. Appears in the first Thor movie.

Fárbauti - Loki’s Father

NORSE MYTHOLOGY

He is Loki’s Father in Mythology.

Attested in the Prose Edda and in Kennings of Viking Age Skalds.

A Jotunn

The Old Norse name Fárbauti has been translated as 'dangerous striker','anger striker',or 'sudden-striker'.

Related to lightning

MARVEL COMICS (Earth 616)

Mother of Loki in this universe.

Gave birth to an unusually small child to the annoyance of her husband.

It is said the night Loki was born that she stabbed her own heart with an ice dagger, but Loki suspects Laufey is the one who killed her.

Appears as a figment taken on by a parasite. She’s mostly deceased in the comics.

MARVEL CINEMATIC UNIVERSE (MCU)

Does not appear or have a reference in the MCU

Loki Laufeyjarson - Son of Laufey & Farbauti. Lover of Sigyn & Angrboda (and many others honestly)

NORSE MYTHOLOGY

Everyone already knows the tales about Loki, so I won’t repeat it all again. It’s pretty lengthy. I’ll just point down the basics for him with it.

He’s famous for causing trouble among the gods as the Trickster and God of Mischief. Not a bad guy, but misinterpreted that way, although he can be a dick too. Despite how much he causes trouble for them, he also helps them out of situations too. He just wants to have fun, even if he takes it overboard at times.

Some sources put as Jotun and some say he is Half-Jotun, Half-Aesir (on his mother’s side.)

A well-known Shapeshifter who can be anything: Salmon, Male, Female, Horse. The list just goes on.

A really handsome being who loved to get it on. *finger guns*

Blood Brother’s with Odin. How? We don’t know. It’s interpreted as a friendship or foster-brothers. It’s unclear really.

Gonna start Ragnarok for valid reasons honestly after having his entire family taken away from him or killed by the Gods. #TeamLoki

MARVEL COMICS (Earth 616)

Far too many appearances to document here from 1942 to present. There has been some retcons as well with the fact the current Loki has been reborn in a new incarnation also known as Ikol.

In the comics Loki is the adopted son of Odin and Frigga and Adoptive brother to Thor & Balder.

He’s depicted as being the God of Evil in the classic comics serval times. In fact, it’s one of his titles.

Depending on the writer for the classic comics, Loki can have moments of humanity, but all around he causes trouble.

Just wants to rule Asgard and get rid of Thor who is his enemy.

He’s honestly a bad guy most of the time in the classic comics #VillianTrope

I personally have yet to read any current comics of Loki that aren’t the classics so this is where my knowledge and research stops.

MARVEL CINEMATIC UNIVERSE (MCU)

First off, Tom Hiddleston as Loki is just *chefs kiss* perfection.

Pretty much the same as comics except for the fact he isn’t really a villain. He plays tricks on people for fun and laughs and truly cares about his family.

However, things change when he discovers the truth that he is a Jotun and has been lied to about it his whole life despite being told countless stories of how Jotun’s are monsters to be slain (You fucked up a perfectly good kid, Odin. Look, he has anxiety and trauma.)

He develops major identity problems on top of others things, but despite it, Loki tries to still do best by his family as he wants to belong. Yes, he becomes a villain in The Avengers movie, but not for the hell of it. #Thanos

Honestly, he just deserves better. That’s where this leads. Thank you.

Angrboda - Loki’s Consort/Lover (Fenrir, Jormungandr & Hel’s Mother)

NORSE MYTHOLOGY

She is only mentioned once in the Poetic Edda as the mother of Fenrir by Loki. The Prose Edda describes her as "a giantess in Jotunheim" and as the mother of three monsters: the wolf Fenrir, the Midgard serpent Jörmungand, and the ruler of the dead Hel.

A Jotun known as Mother of Monsters and Giantess of Ironwood.

In Old Norse, Angrboda means: 'the one who brings grief', 'she-who-offers-sorrow', or 'harm-bidder'.

According to scholars, the name Angrboða is probably a late invention dating from no earlier than the 12th century, although the tradition of the three monsters born of Loki and a jötunn may be of a higher age.

Some scholars say she was a very powerful witch and that she had the ability to see into the future. She was confined to Hel and would not be released from the realm of the dead until Loki was unbound.

In some versions of the Myth’s she knows her children will bring about the end of the world (Ragnarok) as well as being a witch set on fire three times before Loki eats her heart.

MARVEL COMICS (Earth 616)

A giantess of Jotunheim and a Witch.

Born to Elderspawn Vârcolac and Echidna.

She mated with Loki and gave birth to Fenrir and Jormungadr. Legends say she also gave birth to Hela, but it seems to be nothing more but legends.

Angrboda died of unknown causes and was sent to the Underworld of Hel.

When Thor needed to know how to get to Hela's realm because she had been taking mortals to Niffleheim, he went to the Hlidskjalf and summoned Angerboda from the underworld, forcing her to tell him how to get there. Once she revealed to Thor the path he had to follow, she tried to take him with her to the underworld.

Only has one appearance in the comics -- Thor #360 (1985)

MARVEL CINEMATIC UNIVERSE (MCU)

Does not appear or have a reference in the MCU

Sleipnir - Loki’s Son

NORSE MYTHOLOGY

Attested in the Poetic and Prose Edda. In both Sleipnir is Odin's eight-legged steed and child of Loki by Svaðilfari. He is described as the best of all horses.

The Prose Edda contains extra information saying he is grey.

Old Norse meaning: Slippy or the Slipper.

Sleipnir is also mentioned in a riddle found in the 13th century legendary saga Hervarar saga ok Heiðreks, in the 13th-century legendary saga Völsunga saga as the ancestor of the horse Grani, and book I of Gesta Danorum, written in the 12th century by Saxo Grammaticus, contains an episode considered by many scholars to involve Sleipnir. Sleipnir is generally accepted as depicted on two 8th century Gotlandic image stones: the Tjängvide image stone and the Ardre VIII image stone.

Scholarly theories have been proposed regarding Sleipnir's potential connection to shamanic practices among the Norse pagans.

Sleipnir was born when Loki shape-shifted into a mare and became pregnant by the stallion of a giant, as is recounted in the tale of The Fortification of Asgard.

MARVEL COMICS (Earth 616)

There are two different origins for Sleipnir in the comics: 1. Thor fighting off an army of the undead on Midgard. He promised to help as long as his horses weren’t eaten, however, Thor was betrayed and took his horses remains back to Asgard, coupling it with Asgardian Magic to create Sleipneir. 2. Loki had hastily agreed to let a Frost Giant re-build the wall around Asgard, in exchange for the Moon, the Sun, and Freya, only he had to do it in six months. The Frost Giant had only asked to use his grey stallion, Svadilfari. Right as the last brick was about to be placed, Loki transformed into a beautiful white mare, and lured Svadilfari off. Loki later gave birth to Sleipnir. (Just like in the Myths.)

MARVEL CINEMATIC UNIVERSE (MCU)

Odin’s eight-legged steed.

Sleipnir’s origins are unknown. He appears in the first Thor Movie.

Fenrir Wolf - Loki & Angrboda’s Son

NORSE MYTHOLOGY

Attested in the Prose and Poetic Edda as the first son of the Jotun couple. He is a wolf destined to kill Odin. So, they bind and seal him when he's still young, with Tyr losing his arm in the process. When Ragnarok comes, he indeed kills Odin, but is killed by Odin's son Vidar in return.

Fenrir is the father of the wolves Sköll and Hati Hróðvitnisson.

In the Prose Edda, additional information is given about Fenrir, including that, due to the gods' knowledge of prophecies foretelling great trouble from Fenrir and his rapid growth, the gods bound him, and as a result Fenrir bit off the right hand of the god Týr.

No chain can hold him, except for Gleipnir, a rope made by Dwarves containing the roots of a mountain, the breath of a fish, the sound of a cat's footfall, the sinews of a bear, the beard of a woman and the spittle of a bird, all of which were impossible items to obtain.

MARVEL COMICS (Earth 616)

Pretty much the same as his Mythos with some additional storylines.

When Raganrok happened, Fenrir was reborn with the other gods on the New Asgard universe on Midgard. No details of his fate on Earth have been revealed.

Fenrir helped the mutant Wolfsbane as she was carrying the child of one of his descendants.

It is one of the few individuals believed to be more powerful, or equally as powerful, as Dormammu; the others being galactic entities like The Beyonder.

Fenrir is Genderfluid in the comics.

MARVEL CINEMATIC UNIVERSE (MCU)

Fenris is a giant Asgardian Wolf who serves under Hela and is portrayed as Female. She resurrects her as they take over Asgard.

Instead of being her brother, Fenris is her loyal companion and mount.

Fenris ends up getting into a fight against Hulk as he pushes her off, sending her falling into the void below to her supposed death.

Appears in Thor: Ragnarok.

Hel - Loki & Angrboda’s Daughter

NORSE MYTHOLOGY

Attested in the Prose and Poetic Edda. She is a giantess/goddess who resides over the Underworld that is also called Hel, a place where many of the dead reside. She is the daughter of Loki and Angrboda, sister to Fenrir and Jormungandr and usually depicted as the youngest of the three.

Goddess of Death and Graves and ruler of Hel who welcomes the souls of those who died of old age, disease or by accident.

Hel is described as having been appointed by the god Odin as ruler of a realm of the same name, located in Niflheim.

The Prose Edda details that Hel rules over vast mansions with many servants in her underworld realm and plays a key role in the attempted resurrection of the god Baldr.

Old Norse Name Meaning: Hidden

She’s mostly mentioned only in passing. Snorri describes her appearance as being half-black, half-white, and with a perpetually grim and fierce expression on her face.

MARVEL COMICS (Earth 616)

Renamed Hela in the comics.

Allegedly the daughter of Loki and Angrboda, but it’s never made clear or stated. Hela's genealogy is the subject of controversies and retellings.

Her path pretty much follows her Mythos where she is destined to do terrible things and Odin makes her the ruler over the dead in the realms of Hel and Niflheim until maturity.

At some point, she was considered the daughter of Odin and of a long-lost goddess.

Honestly, she usually tries to expand her powers, wanting to rule over Vahalla and obtain Asgardian souls.

MARVEL CINEMATIC UNIVERSE (MCU):

Appears in Thor: Ragnarok as Odin’s firstborn and only daughter. Sister to Thor and Loki.

Kinda pissed her dad locked her away and wants to rule Asgard and take revenge.

The cause of Ragnarok and supposedly dies on Asgard after everything is said in done in the movie.

Jormungandr - Loki & Angrboda’s Son

NORSE MYTHOLOGY

Usually depicted as the middle child of Loki and Angrboda, he is known as the Midgard Serpent or World Serpent who is a giant snake. When Odin takes Loki’s kids away from him, he tosses Jormungadr into the ocean that encircles Midgard. The serpent grew so large that is was able to surround the Earth and grasp it’s own tail. When it releases it’s tail, Ragnarok will begin and he will fight his arch-enemy, Thor.

The major sources for myths about Jörmungandr are the Prose Edda, the skaldic poem Húsdrápa, and the Eddic poems Hymiskviða and Völuspá. Other sources include the early skaldic poem Ragnarsdrápa and kennings in other skaldic poems; for example, in Þórsdrápa, faðir lögseims, "father of the sea-thread", is used as a kenning for Loki. There are also several image stones depicting the story of Thor fishing for Jörmungandr.

MARVEL COMICS (Earth 616)

Both Loki and Angerboda were descended from the Frost Giants of Jotunheim and were of humanoid appearance; however, the sons Angerboda bore Loki, Jormungand and the Fenris Wolf, did not. It has been suggested that Jormungand and the Fenris Wolf were born as sentient animals because their parents each had the magical ability to change his or her own shape. Hence, Jormungand and the Fenris Wolf each bear the form of the animal that their parents had assumed at the moment they were conceived.

Jormungandr follows the same as his Mythos to a certain degree with his fate to fight Thor during Ragnarok as the God of Thunder would die from his venom.

MARVEL CINEMATIC UNIVERSE (MCU)

Does not appear or have a reference in the MCU

Sigyn - Loki’s Wife

NORSE MYTHOLOGY

Sadly, not many stories that have Sigyn in them have survived to this day. She is only attested in the followings works: Poetic Edda & Prose Edda.

The most famous of her story tells of how Loki has been bound by the gods with the guts of his son, Nari, and how his son, Vari, has been turned into a wolf. The Goddess Skadi fastens a venomous snake over Loki’s face, from which venom drips. Sigyn, stated as Loki’s wife, stays by his side and holds a basin under and catches the venom so it won’t drip onto her husband, but when the basin grows full, she pulls it away to empty it, during which time venom drops onto Loki, causing him to wither so violently that earthquakes occur that shake the entire earth.

In the poem, Gylfaginning, Sigyn is introduced in Chapter 31 as being married to Loki and that they have a son by the name of “Narfi or Nari”. She is then mentioned again in Chapter 50 where events are described differently than in Lokasenna; Vali, described as a son of Loki only, is changed into a wolf by the gods and rips apart his brother, “Narfi or Nari.” The guts of Nari are then used to tie Loki to three stones, after which the guts turn to iron, and Skadi places a snake above Loki. Sigyn of course catches the venom in a bowl. This process is repeated until he breaks free, setting Ragnarok into motion.

In the poem, Skáldskaparmál, Sigyn is introduced as a goddess, an Æsir, where the gods are holding a feast for their visitors and in kennings for Loki: “husband of Sigyn” and “cargo [Loki] of incantation-fetter’s [Sigyn’s] arms.”

Old Norse Name meaning: Victory Girlfriend.

MARVEL COMICS (Earth 616)

Lonely and looking for female companionship, Loki ends up coming across Sigyn and plans to make her his. However, she is already engaged to a warrior of Odin’s Crimson Hawks -- Theoric. Hence, Loki sets up a trap to have Theoric killed during a mission so Loki can disguise himself as Theoric. Once they are wed, Loki reveals himself and despite Odin attempting to annul the marriage (which goes against Asgardian Law)), Sigyn tells the Allfather that she will follow the duties of a loyal wife since she is Loki’s now.

This is when Odin proclaims her to be the Goddess of Fidelity. This was a thing first started by the Marvel Comics.

Sigyn doesn’t have much of an agency in the comics except being a loyal wife to Loki, sometimes going along with his plans or getting on him for it.

I personally haven’t been able to find any evidence of Sigyn’s parents being Iwaldi and Freya in the comics, so I’m not sure if this fact is Fanon or not.

Sigyn has suddenly seemed to vanish from the comics with her last official appearance being in 1996. It has been allueded at that she died or was killed during Ragnarok.

Her relationship with Loki in the comics is...complicated and changes a lot depending on the writer.

MARVEL CINEMATIC UNIVERSE (MCU)

Does not appear or have a reference in the MCU

Narvi/Narfi & Vali - Loki & Sigyn’s Sons

NORSE MYTHOLOGY

Not much is known about Narfi and Vali except for being Loki & Sigyn’s sons with Vali being transformed into a wolf by the gods and killing his brother whose inners are used as a chain to bind Loki in the cave.

Narfi and Vali are referred to in a number of sources. According to the Gylfaginning section of Snorri Sturluson's Prose Edda, he was also called Nari and was killed by his brother Váli, who was transformed into a wolf; in a prose passage at the end of the Eddic poem "Lokasenna", Váli became a wolf and his brother Nari was killed.

Snorri also names "Nari or Narfi" as the son of Loki and his wife Sigyn earlier in Gylfaginning, and lists "father of Nari" as a heiti for Loki in the Skáldskaparmál section of his work.

Narfi’s name could mean “Corpse” in Old Norse, relating to how he was killed by his brother.

There's no mention of what became of Vali after he became a wolf.

MARVEL COMICS (Earth 616)

Narvi never makes an appearance in the comics and is only mentioned in: Free Comics Book Day Vol 2018 Avengers.

There is a Vali in the comics called Vali Halfling. He is the son of loki and a unnamed mortal woman. So, I don’t consider this to be the same Vali that is the son of Loki and Sigyn.

MARVEL CINEMATIC UNIVERSE (MCU)

Does not appear or have a reference in the MCU

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Thanks for reading everyone. This required a bunch of research, but I hope this helps and has been educational. We only have what we can work with considering the surviving myths, but there is so many stories out there that we don’t know of that aren’t clear because of it.

I tried my best to cover everything I knew about them in Marvel too, but sometimes so many retcons is too much to keep up with. I know there may be some errors in places, but it’s the best I could get this with what we have to work with.

SOURCES:

https://marvel.fandom.com/wiki/Laufey_(Earth-616)

https://marvelcinematicuniverse.fandom.com/wiki/Laufey

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laufey

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fárbauti

https://marvel.fandom.com/wiki/Farbauti_(Earth-616)

https://marvel.fandom.com/wiki/Angerboda_(Earth-616)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Angrboða

https://marvel.fandom.com/wiki/Hela_(Earth-616)

https://norse-mythology.org/gods-and-creatures/giants/hel/

https://norse-mythology.org/gods-and-creatures/giants/jormungand/

https://marvel.fandom.com/wiki/Jormungand_(Earth-616)

https://marvel.fandom.com/wiki/Sleipnir_(Earth-616)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sleipnir

https://marvelcinematicuniverse.fandom.com/wiki/Sleipnir

https://norse-mythology.org/gods-and-creatures/giants/fenrir/

https://marvel.fandom.com/wiki/Fenris_Wolf_(Earth-616)

https://marvelcinematicuniverse.fandom.com/wiki/Fenris

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sigyn

https://marvel.fandom.com/wiki/Sigyn_(Earth-616)

https://marvel.fandom.com/wiki/Narvi_(Earth-616)

https://marvel.fandom.com/wiki/Vali_Halfling_(Earth-616)

https://norse-mythology.org/gods-and-creatures/the-aesir-gods-and-goddesses/loki/

https://marvel.fandom.com/wiki/Loki_Laufeyson_(Earth-616)

https://marvelcinematicuniverse.fandom.com/wiki/Loki

https://skjalden.com/narfi-and-vali/

https://marvelcinematicuniverse.fandom.com/wiki/Hela

#logyn meta #logyn #sigyn #loki #Angrboda #laufey #farbauti #Sleipnir #hel #Jormungandr #Fenrir #narvi #vali #lokakindar #norse mythology #marvel #marvel comics #mcu

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stevetonygames · 5 years ago

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Spotlight Post: Canon Soulmate Bonds

Yooo, this is a blog takeover, Mizzy here, ready to champion one of my favourite fictional causes: canonical soulbonds in the Marvel universe.

We all love a good soulbond fic. Words on your body, names on your wrist, red string of fate...so many glorious versions, and all of them *completely awesome*. The problem sometimes with starting a soulbond fic, though, can be all the worldbuilding required to make it work. But what if I was to tell you that no worldbuilding was necessary? That you could technically write a soulbond fic without having to set it in an Alternate Universe? What if you could set your soulbond fic *directly in main canon?*

Marvel 616 delivers you a canonical soulbond mechanic… not once… but at least *twice*. There could be more. There’s a lot of comics to go through and I’m only smol. But here’s the two I know about and I’m here to introduce you to today. :)

The was a ripple of mild confusion around fandom when Kevin Feige announced that the Eternals were getting a title movie in the next phase of the Marvel Cinematic Universe. Created by Jack Kirby in the 1970s, in a wild combination of mythological fascination and spite at DC comics for not letting him finish his New Gods saga, the Eternals were an offshoot of humanity, created by the Celestials for humanity’s protection; this reason for their existence would lead them into their ongoing conflict against the deadly Deviants. There have been a few Eternals runs (notably one run by Neil Gaiman, which did not serve to bring the Eternals the commercial success Marvel was searching for with the title, that nevertheless remains the most fun and accessible Eternals volume), but they’ve not yet really reached wide-reaching traction among even the most die-hard comic fans. The MCU might change that, and here’s hoping, because I love these nearly-immortal idiots, and I’m hoping not to be alone in that for much longer. :D

But even my Eternals-happy soul has to admit, Eternals canon for the most part is dense and can be convoluted, and the spellings—both of their character names and one of the main fun parts of their existence, the Mahd W’yry—are enough to give one a headache. The idea of the Eternals is that they’re long-lived and have interacted with human history over the years in various impactful ways. You might think at first glance that you’ve never heard of the Eternals Sersi, Ikaris, Makkari, but I think you wouldn’t find Circe, Icarus, or Mercury unfamiliar names.

The Mahd W’yry is a symptom of the Eternals being so long-living. In order to stop them going insane, the Eternals have to bond into something known as the Uni-Mind, which basically squishes all their consciousnesses together into one, where they can share memories and blend temporarily into one mind. Regularly bonding into the Uni-Mind allows them to stave off the Mahd W’yry. (Yep, that’s just a headache-inducing spelling of ‘mad worry’, we know.)

Anyway, did you need to know all this? Eh, maybe, a little bit of canned backstory is always handy for you to briefly glance over and promptly forget. Because along with some dense mythological adventures, some glorious angsting across beautiful landscapes, and that ability to turn into a big massive floating brain, the Eternals also gave us a beautiful gift:

The Gann Josin.

In Avengers #361, Ikaris comes down to Earth and decides that Sersi needs to be bonded to Dane Whitman, an Avenger who canonically didn’t have any powers, he was just a *really good guy*, destined for tragedy. Honestly. That’s his bio. Really good guy. Destined for tragedy. The character creation in the 90s was peak talent. Dane, sadly, was in love with another woman, but did this matter to Ikaris? No. Apparently the Eternals don’t know about the dangers of letting himbos like Ikaris have life-changing powers, like the ability to create the Uni-Mind.

Because the power to control the Uni-Mind also gives an Eternal the power to form a Gann Josin bond. And that’s what Ikaris does in Avengers #361—he forces a Gann Josin bond on Eternal Sersi and tragic human Avenger Dane Whitman.

Gann Josin (sometimes Gan-Josin because what is spelling continuity in Marvel comics) is both the name of the bond, and the title given to an Eternal and their chosen life-mate. It has a bunch of cool side effects. Both Gann Josins get glowing full-red eyes. It’s a really intimate tiny form of the Uni-Mind (without the part where you become a big floating brain), and creates a small scale mental union. The Gann Josin bond makes the Eternal and their partner lifelong soulmates. As the bond progresses, it creates a telepathic/empathic bond that strengthens in time. According to the Eternal Sprite, humans are rarely chosen by Eternals for the Gann Josin.

Now, Dane Whitman does manage to break the Gann Josin several issues later. But… it’s not easy. It’s rare. When Dane manages it, it is called an “astounding act.” It’s pretty dang hard, in other words. There’s every chance your chosen Gann Josins won’t have the mental fortitude of Dane Whitman to break it. (Although, we’re talking about Steve and Tony, and are there any bigger stubborn idiots in the universe? Probably not.)

But Mizzy, I hear you saying. I don’t want to write about Ikaris, even if he is a party king and that sounds pretty nifty. I don’t know anything about the Eternals and I don’t want to go down that gnarly rabbit hole.

That’s totes fine, my friend. I am here to save you. Because in very recent canon, during Jason Aaron’s turn at the helm, the Eternals are all dead. Very dead. That whole Mahd W’yry thing got ‘em, it got ‘em good. But before Ikaris died, he granted his Uni-Mind power to someone we all know and love.

Yep. Tony Stark. Tony Stark currently has the power of the Uni-Mind.

Which means that Tony Stark can now Gann Josin people.

In Avengers #361, Ikaris performs the Gann Josin by basically just pointing his hands at Sersi and Dane and some light goes WHEEEEEEE!! in their direction, and bam, this rare and special bond is done. And Tony Stark can do that now. To anyone! Unfortunately Ikaris is dead and didn’t leave Tony with an instruction manual. But the point is, he *can*. You can make up all sorts of fun things with this canonical fact (or write your own version because lbr Canon Is Dead; Long Live Canon.)

There are so many possibilities. Does Tony deliberately learn how to use it so he can bond himself to Steve? Does Tony *need* to be able to hear Steve’s thoughts (to thwart some bad guys) and thus end up soulbonded forever to Steve in result? Is Tony’s power activating at random because he can’t control it, and he ends up soulbonding everyone around him? Does he just subconsciously bond himself to Steve without consciously meaning to? Do Tony or Steve want to try it for science?

Gosh, I love comics.

But WAIT. There’s MORE.

It’s not just 1990s comics going ham on the soulbond idea. No, we got some *this year*. Canonical soulbonding? TWICE? In one universe? Two different kinds??

And this time, it’s not in a D-list Marvel title. We’re up the ranks to the big leagues this time, folx, with a brief trek to the world of the Fantastic Four.

In Fantastic Four (Vol. 6) #15, we’re introduced to a Spyre citizen called Sky, a winged team member of the Unparalleled (more cosmic-powered superheroes), who work under The Overseer. (The Overseer, in a burst of beautiful retcon in the way Marvel comics keeps doing to us, is apparently the entity who is responsible for giving the F4 their powers. Huh. The more you know.)

On the planet Spyre, all children are brought before something called The Great Eye. This measures them against the radiation signature of everyone on the planet, divining who their perfect match is.

Sky looked into The Great Eye, only to find out her match was Johnny Storm, who was 44 light-years away at the time. Long-distance relationships can be tough. Anyway, plot happens, the F4 get stuck on Spyre, get told they can’t leave, and Sky tells Johnny Storm that she is his soulmate. Oh, and she attached a soul binding onto him while he slept. Neat, huh, all the bodily autonomy people get in this universe before being force soulbond to people? So neat, much consent, wow.

Johnny feels a connection to Sky, which is supposed to let us know this lack of choice is a good thing I guess. The Overseer wants Sky to renounce Johnny and crush the F4 which obv doesn’t happen, so of course she leaves The Unparalleled and skips off to Earth to be with Johnny.

Who knows how this relationship is gonna last. I mean, you can look at the rest of Johnny’s relationship history and have a good guess. Who knows. Anyway, Reed and Sue are each other's soulmate, and also share a “Soul Binding”, so there’s some canonical proof right there that maybe this system has some validity going for it.

The soulbond for this form takes the form of a golden bracelet worn on the upper arm, that Sky explains her people call a “Soul Binding”; it represents them as being soul-mates. This bracelet can only be removed by your soulmate. This soulbond doesn’t seem to come with any extra powers, it’s just to show that The Great Eye has measured their radiation signature and declared them a match that is supposed to mean they’re perfectly compatible in every way: spiritually, mentally, and physically.

I don’t know about you, but I have a pretty good feeling that Steve and Tony might just have matching radiation signatures… Or what if Steve and Tony have perfect matching signatures….with other people? (Someone else on Spyre believes Sky is *their* perfect match, after all!) What if Steve has feelings for Iron Man, but he’s a perfect match with Tony Stark? I feel faint already just thinking about it.

So here you go. Two canonical types of soulbonds for your fannish consideration. Feel free to ask me questions! You can find me on tumblr (@mizzy2k) or on discord (addy#0908).

#stevetonygames #mod post #spotlight post #soulmates

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avengerscompound · 5 years ago

Note

This might be a stupid question, and I've never read the comics, but in Endgame, there seemed to be a difference between Clint and Ronan. Is there a difference between the two? I know they are the same person physically.

Sorry, this took me so long to get to. Still got a lot of brain fog cause of this damn flu.

I am not the best person to ask this of. I have read exactly 1 comic that Ronin existed in so I don’t know the nuances.

The one I did read was a post Civil War comic where Steve was dead and Kate Bishop had just taken on the name Hawkeye. In it, Clint was just Clint and he was just using the persona Ronin to disguise his identity because he was a wanted fugitive. It wasn’t the case of trying to avenge his dead family. That’s actually an ultimate comics (blech) storyline and he wasn’t Ronin in it.

However, he’s not the only Ronin and he’s not even the first Ronin. The first was a character known as Maya Lopez that goes also by Echo. She’s a deaf, Native American woman.

After Clint was this guy:

and then:

There are other people in other universes too (in fact technically Logan took on the Ronin persona in the movie The Wolverine) but that’s the 616 history as I know it.

#clint barton #ronin #unnecessarypineapplesstuff #answered

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sineala · 6 years ago

Note

Hey! I was wondering if you could describe the differences and similarities between MCU Carol and 616 Carol? Thanks and I love your writing!!

Oof, this is a big topic. Also I don’t really want to spoil the movie if I can avoid it, so I’m going to try to figure out what I can say in generalities. (I am tagging for spoilers anyway.)

I think that personality-wise, it’s clear that MCU Carol and 616 Carol are supposed to be the same person, the same way that, say, MCU Tony and 616 Tony are supposed to be the same person. In both universes she has the same basic drive and personality, arising from a relatively similar upbringing and a sort-of similar origin story. In both universes she has a not-great family life and an ambition to fly, and she comes up through the ranks in the Air Force, deals with an unfortunate amount of sexism, and then acquires powers in what I guess I would call a Kree-related accident (although this has been sort of retconned recently), whereupon a bunch of amnesia figures into her life in various ways.

She loves flying and space and punching whatever needs punching. In 616 she’s had the time to develop more individual personality traits. Her love of science fiction and specifically Star Wars is pretty big -- there’s a reason her pet is named Chewie -- and on the less, uh, positive side, she’s an alcoholic. (She comes back to the Avengers having lost her Binary powers and starts drinking to cope, gets kicked off the team, and eventually drop-kicks Tony through an airplane before acknowledging that maybe she needs help, and she lets Tony help her. This is one of my favorite IM runs ever, Busiek’s 1998 IM run. I am pretty sure nothing like this is ever going to happen in the MCU.)

616 Carol has had a lot of other terrible things happen to her that the movies are probably not going to do, and we should all be grateful, because they’re terrible. At one point she was mind-controlled and raped by an alien and gave birth in a matter of days and the Avengers were all happy for her and it was terrible. Also Rogue stole her powers and her memories and that drove both of them crazy for a while. (This is why Rogue can fly and has super-strength, IIRC.) She does end up with a bunch of amnesia due to this, and initially she doesn’t even know she’s a superhero -- she actually blacks out while using her powers -- but the amnesia situation isn’t really similar to the movies, because I don’t think it’s really... deliberately exploited by the characters in the same way.

Carol also goes through a lot of different code names and team affiliations. The Avengers, the X-Men, the Starjammers, Alpha Flight -- I mean, I think I’d say she’s been an Avenger more often than not, and I think of her as an Avenger, but she’s always been able to fit a lot of different places. As for code names, she was Ms. Marvel first, Binary, Warbird, then Ms. Marvel again, and most recently Captain Marvel. (She picked up the name with Steve’s encouragement to honor Mar-Vell, whose code name it once was, but she hasn’t been the only one -- prior to her, Monica Rambeau was Captain Marvel in the 80s. Monica is often Photon when she isn’t Captain Marvel; I think she might be Spectrum now, though.)

The actual plot of the movie is really not like the comics. I mean, it’s close enough to her origin story for me to recognize it as her origin story, but there are some big big changes -- the same way you can watch IM1 and know that that’s Tony’s origin story (heart damage in a war zone, building the suit with Yinsen, et cetera) while at the same time if you know the comics you also know that Obadiah Stane is one of Tony’s rivals in the 80s who takes over Stark International by putting Tony in enough stress to cause him to start drinking again and lose everything to the point where Tony is homeless and living on the streets and Stane gets his company. It’s like that. They’ve picked elements of the comics that they liked and adapted them.

So the plot the Captain Marvel movie is running with is Carol’s origin story mixed with something that is sort of like, but definitely not identical to, the plot of a 1970s Avengers arc called The Kree-Skrull War. The basic similarities here are that the Kree and Skrulls are having a war and they come to Earth to fight it out and Earth (well, Earth other than the superheroes) doesn’t even know that aliens exist. There’s a lot of drama and the US government hunting for aliens and Avengers being kidnapped and also Skrulls impersonating cows, which is actually a thing Skrulls have done more than once. (Carol is actually around in canon at this point, and we see her -- or at least, a Skrull version of her, I can’t remember if we see the real her -- in this arc, but she’s not even powered yet and definitely not an Avenger.)

I hope that helps. I have not really read everything I could have for Carol, so my knowledge has some gaps.

#captain marvel spoilers #Anonymous #replies

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mrsspidermanmaryjanewatsonparker · 6 years ago

Video

youtube

Let’s debunk this shit.

First off...why should we, on the topic of Spider-Man, actually place stock by the guy who has in the past argued Sins Past is as, if not more, bad than One More Day when anyone with an ounce of knowledge of how writing craft works would realize this is abjectly false. As a story the flaws in Sins Past amount to it inserting something into the past that doesn’t fit at all. One More Day by contrast not only does this but needs to violently ignore 45 yrs of established characterization to even function and even then it fails since it needs to contradict its own narrative.

Oh and you know MovieBob is the guy who said ‘That Spec cartoon wasn’t as good as people make it out to be. People like it more for what it could be than what it was.’...WTF was he even watching.

But let’s dive into some more specifics of Bob’s argument.

“OMD ‘needed’ to happen.”

This is objectively untrue.

Let’s give the benefit of the doubt and say what Bob meant wasn’t so much that Spider-Man needed to make a deal with the Devil but rather it was necessary to get rid of Spider-Man’s marriage.

I can’t bring myself to do a 3000 word essay on why the latter alone is idiotic, sexist, myopic and utterly false but here is a cliffnotes version.

There are 2 fundamental problems with Bob’s line of thinking.

The 1st is that to end the marriage you needed to outright alter Spider-Man’s history via a soft DC style continuity reboot thus creating in a literal sense an alternate universe version of Spider-Man who’d just never been married in the first place.

Put simply Spider-Man’s marital status could’ve been ended in universe through numerous methods that avoided that. He could’ve gotten divorced. The US government as some kind of petty revenge upon Spider-Man turning on the Registration Act could’ve legally annulled his marriage along with certain other legal aspects of his life. There could’ve been a reveal that due to a legal loophole nobody realized at the time technically speaking Peter and MJ had never been married in the first place despite believing they were.

None of this would’ve fixed the most egregious contrivance of OMD and OMIT, that by simply never having been married magically this = Peter and MJ would break up. You still need to justify THAT separately which OMD didn’t even attempt to do. OMD in isolation erases their marriage but it doesn’t explain or justify why doing this would mean they are now no longer in a relationship. OMIT tried and miserably failed to do that because once again it required the abject ignoring of decades of established (and logical) characterization.

But what should we expect from the guy who in another video once said Superman would be a jerk if he married Lois Lane because of the stress and dangers it’d expose her to, specifically comparing it to real life people who’s jobs offer comparable examples. ‘Superman would never put Lois Lane through that’ said Bob (though I am paraphrasing I admit.

Why?

If REAL people do that then why WOULDN’T Superman OR Spider-Man do so?

It’s a line of thought which amounts to Bob saying those people shouldn’t have marital relationships. And that is gross.

The 2nd problem with Bob’s ‘it needed to happen’ assertion is the notion that CREATIVELY it was necessary for the health of Spider-Man.

Let’s ignore how creatively (and financially) Superman has been on the up and up since 2016 when he got his marriage BACK.

Instead let’s consider for a moment...why?

Why CREATIVLY does Spider-Man need to not be married to work? Why does he need to be single for his long term creative/financial health?

There is no answer because the truth is he isn’t. Spider-Man’s love life is relevant only in so far as the series follows his life and not being asexual romance is a part of that. At which point if you are arguing for his long term creative health he needs to be able to swap out the women he’s going to be romantically/sexually involved with why then does that not also apply to literally every other character connected to every other part of his life?

It doesn’t.

It’s a bullshit argument born of an ignorant lack of questioning. It’s born of “Well it’s got to be this way because it’s always been this way and it’s worked that way.” Ignoring how it doesn’t and how you know...Marvel comics itself exists off the back of saying “Maybe it doesn’t have to just be this way. I don’t like that way in fact, I like the idea of trying it this other way.”

Spider-Man being single keeps Spider-Man stunted and in a state of doomed to failure. It literally renders his love life redundant because every reader (and this applied before 1987 when he got married, but applies a thousand times more now) knows his romances will never amount to anything and that they are glorified Bond girls. And I’ll be honest the substance (such as there is) in the Bond movies NEVER lies with the Bond girls with the sole exceptions of those few movies where they tease you with the idea that he has deeper feelings for them.

Then you have the fact that marriage as a part of most people’s lives and a responsibility is outright tailor made for the character who’s core concept is entwined around the interconnected idea of responsibility and being a (relatively) normal person. It’s not different to him graduating from High school or moving out of Aunt May’s house or getting a job.

But let’s look at the franchise in the wake of OMD creatively and financially has it been doing better than before?

LOL NOPE!

In 2016 we had the Power Play arc. This arc was THE Spider-Man event of the year. It tied into the previous Spider event of 2015, Renew Your Vows by introducing the incredibly powerful villain Regent who’s powers were that he had the powers of EVERY other hero virtually and in RYV took over all of NYC following killing the X-Men and Avengers on his own. It guest starred fan favourite Miles Morales, the first substantial appearance of the character in Amazing Spider-Man since his migration into the 616 universe. It also guest starred lead character of the MCU and (then) Marvel comics poster boy Iron Man fresh from his hyped up run under Bendis, the biggest name in comics of the previous 20 years. It also teased the appearance of the newest team of Avengers, a brand that has been huge since 2012 for obvious reasons. Oh and it featured the return of another fan favourite Mary Jane who was once more being used to tease the possibility of her and Spider-Man’s romantic reunion which had been a surefire way of raising hype for a story since 2008 onwards. Oh and it was clearly a tie-in to the international blockbuster and critically acclaimed movie, Captain America: Civil War.

And of course you had much promotion from the Marvel hype machine, Dan Slott interviews and the usual variant cover artificial sales inflation gimmick that had become common to Marvel.

Safe to say that this story was a big, big deal and sure to sell well right?

Well....it actually sold less than a barely promoted, run-of-the-mill ASM arc from 2005 by J. Michael Straczynski that featured in the first issue Tony Stark sitting on a chair sans armour and beyond that no guest stars....oh and there were no variant covers....and btw Spider-Man was married in it

. ...Oh....

But hey what about some OTHER Spider-Man stories since OMD. Haven’t THEY been creatively enriching?

I mean we had classics like:

The Lizard ruins the interesting humanizing aspects of his character when he becomes a cannibalistic monster who eats his own son and maybe rapes someone

Black Cat’s characterization gets flushed down the toilet so she can be an indulgent juvenile sexual fantasy for Joe Kelly who believes Spider-Man is fundamentally a man child Black Cat’s characterization gets shot to shit again by her ripping off Catwoman by becoming a gangster, something she has never held aspiration for before and seems to want to get involved in now for no reason at all beyond being angry that Spider-Man imprisoned her and exposed her identity that wasn’t even secret in the first place

Dan Slott who likes Doc Ock more than he likes Peter Parker decides to say screw it and make Doc Ock Spider-Man thus invalidating the entire reason he was hired, which is to write about Peter Parker. He proceeds to make Doc Ock a villain sue and cause readers to wonder if he’s this smart and this dangerous he lost so many times in the past at all? Also he tries to rape Mary Jane in issue 2 and then succeeds in maybe raping Spider-Man himself in the same issue and definitely succeeds in raping the only dwarf character in Spider-Man’s canon.

Spider-Man becomes like Iron Man thus invalidating the entire point of his character and reasons people like to read about him.

A mystery surrounding the Green Goblin’s identity that turns out to be the twist that he was Norman Osborn all along meaning this was a pointless mystery the whole time.

Ben Reilly finally comes back after 20 years but doesn’t act even a little bit like the character people knew and loved causing people to wish he’d stayed dead

Betty Brant is physically assaulted and Spider-Man tracks down the assailant but when he finds him lets him go (thus enabling him to assault other innocent women) because Aunt May guilt tripped him by saying he was a jerk at age 15 for allowing her, a 50+ year old adult and his parental guardian, to cope with Uncle Ben’s death alone on the night of his death.

Fan favourite Mayday Parker has her character now defined by the death of her father invalidating the entire point of her character which was the ongoing relationship between herself and her Dad

Every spider person ever fights a bunch of one note cosmic vampires across alternate niverses who are variant action figures of another one note cosmic vampire villain. The story is utterly reparative and makes Spider-Man play second fiddle to all the other characters cramming for panel time.

I could go on but I won’t.

To count the creative successful and enriching Slott and the post-OMD Spider-Man stories is a far easier task than to count the ones which are for the most part mediocre-God forsakenly terrible and miss the whole point of the various characters involved (most of all you know SPIDER-MAN himself!) because the latter is the norm post-OMD.

Tellingly both volume 1 and volume 2 of Renew Your Vows a book BUILT around the concept of a married Spider-Man have (when judged appropriately given their out of continuity status) garnered perfectly respectable sales (especially in volume 1) prior to their recent time skip (an ill advised move regardless of what the series was about) and critical acclaim. And critical acclaim from people besides Marvel/Spider-Man sycophants like CBR who have vested financial interests in positively reviewing the stories.

In fact there is a very strong argument in favour of Slott being the single most creatively damaging Spider-Man writer in history. The list of things that need to be FIXED because of his idiocy and incompetence is vast.

Moving on to Bob’s other points:

“Peter and MJ being together was a dumb stunt when the did it in the first place”

If Bob had you know READ the stories leading into the wedding he’d know

a) That relationship and marriage was being built up since 1984 albeit with the initial intention being Peter stranded at the altar.

b) A stunt isn’t rendered invalid merely because it is a stunt. A Stunt can make sense and with the build up the wedding had this was one such example

“The marriage generated very few decent stories that wouldn’t have worked just as well without it”

Here is a list of a FEW decent or above stories which in some significant way make use of the Spider marriage between 1987-2007

Kraven’s Last Hunt

Venom

ASM #400

Revenge of the Green Goblin

A Death in the Family

ASM volume 2 #49-50

ASM volume 2 #51-54

Sensational Spider-Man volume 2 #32

Sensational Spider-Man Annual 2007, the only Eisner nominated Spider-Man story ever

Spider-Man unlimited volume 3 #2 Story 2: Making Contributions

Eleven Angry Men and One angry Woman

Parallel lives

Spider-Man: the Final Adventure

Web of Death

Revelations the end of the Clone Saga

Spectacular Spider-Man #241

Spectacular Spider-Man #242-245

ASM vol 2 #39

Ultimate Spider-Man Anthology book: Five Minutes

I Heart Marvel Web of Romance #1

Spectacular Spider-Man #199-200

Spectacular Spider-Man #250

The Tombstone arc

Peter Parker Spider-Man volume 2 #14

Marvel Knights Spider-Man #1-12

Hmmm...it’s almost like Bob sucks at mathematics and story evaluation or something. Then again he did say there was no problem with Luke Skywalker in Last Jedi so you know...I should know better.

Oh and btw the whole ‘those would’ve worked JUST as well without the marriage’ argument is a double edged sword since there are literally less than 20 Spider-Man stories post-OMD that WOULDN’T have worked with a married Spider-Man and only one of them is good...and only if you also take entirely in isolation of Spider-Man’s wider history. Every other story with tweaks could work AS if not MORE effectively with a married Spider-Man.

If the argument is there should be no elements in a story that do not actively contribute to it then shit....why should Spider-Man’s SINGLE status be in a book? Why should Aunt May, Jameson or shitton else be multiple stories across the decades of Spider-Man? Hell by this logic Aunt May or Betty Brant are superfluous to ASM annual #1 which inspired part of Spider-Man 2.

“The Spider Marriage left the franchise spinning it’s wheel for a very long time.”

This is another lie. After Peter and MJ got married there was precious little wheel spinning. Almost immediately we jumped into ongoing stories involving Betty Brant, Joe Robertson, Peter going to school again, MJ and Peter’s finances taking a hit when MJ lost her job, Jameson being impersonated by Chameleon, Black Cat dating Flash, Peter’s parents returning and THEN you got the Clone Saga FFS.

Following that we got Norman Osborn running the Daily Bugle followed by the true wheel spinning garbage of the Mackie/Byrne run which was bad BECAUSE they axed the marriage. Following that when JMS took over his wheel spun for maybe 5 months tops? The rest of the time he reconstructed Peter and MJ and Aunt May’s characters, thrust forward with his Spider totem storyline and then began the slow build up to OMD starting with Peter becoming and Avenger.

There were few months were NOTHING was really happening and the number of issues where that was the case owed much more to the fact that the writers needed to pad out FOUR monthly titles each month!

“By contrast BND and Slott’s run has been good”

By objective writing standards this is a fallacy and Bob is offering no proof to this. He just says ‘it’s been good’. Except Bob’s word isn’t proof unto itself despite how much he must like to think so.

“Peter and MJ are more interesting now”

This is the proof Bob is not a...I don’t want to say he isn’t true fan. I rarely use that term. It’s more that he...isn’t an informed fan.

Anyone who knows any legit shit about Spider-Man could tell you Spider-Man is far from more interesting now than he was prior to BND.

Pre-OMD Spider-Man was the sum of 45 years of experiences. A 30ish average guy who’d been through Hell and a lot of battles and survived them and coped with that pain. He was a competent hero and a flawed human being who was just trying to look out for the little guy and take care of his family.

MJ meanwhile was a woman who’d also lived through Hell but demonstrated sheer steel by surviving it in spite of having no powers to fall back on. She’d gone from a carefree party animal who was seemingly selfish, to a hero in her own right who had an endless well of inner strength.

In contrast post-OMD Peter Parker is a man-child fuck up who illegally invades foreign nations with his giant G.I. Joe action figures whilst often playing second fiddle in his own fucking book to whatever guest stars want to steal the limelight. And he’s not believable anymore. He isn’t a grounded guy who copes with the shit thrown at him. He’s the guy who just shrugs off being killed, having his body stolen and his life upended by his enemy and then losing a year of his life.

That isn’t more interesting unless you are arguing being a Saturday morning cartoon character is inherently more interesting than being....welll actually inherently more interesting than being a certain character Stan Lee and Steve Ditko invented in 1962.

Which Bob plainly isn’t arguing because he’s also listing MJ as ‘more interesting’....how?

MJ isn’t even IN the book regularly any more so HOW could she be more interesting. Worse when she WAS in the book she had 2 roles. Ship tease the fans by being Peter’s friend and confidant (i.e. something she used to do BEFORE BND) or being a blind idiot in Superior which is NOT more interesting.

So what the fuck is he talking about?

I don’t know WHAT he’s talking about. But when you make a statement like: ‘on balance this story that eviscerated and betrayed everything about who Spider-Man is and invalidates his motivation from now on because he sold out in the biggest way possible, was on balance worth it because we got t see Doc Ock as Spider-Man try to rape people’ I certainly from WHERE he is talking from.

And the sun don’t shine there son.

#moviebob #bob chipman #Spider-Man #peter Parker #One More Day #Brand New Day #MJ Watson #mjwatsonedit #mary jane watson #Mary Jane Watson Parker

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hackedmotionsensors · 6 years ago

Note

Im not updated enough w the ships but did stony get wincested? I mean like. In the SPN fandom the biggest ship if not only at first was wincest, and then a new ship appeared called destiel and totally overpowered it? Thered be the common drama of ship wars but i wanted to know if thats what happened?

lol I guess!?!?! Kind of. I don’t think it was so much of an overpowering as it was a massive butting of heads. SteveTony is still a very big ship but Stucky is also a very popular ship though fairly new since most of it stems only from MCU. Kind of different than a ship encompassing only a TV show.

So here’s what happened. The full damned story. Probably fft. its gonna be a long one folks so strap in. This isn’t really a call out but if you were curious as to why there’s so much damned fighting in the marvel fandom over really dumb shit this is an unbiased as possible explanation. Beware. I think the whole thing is dumb but I got some extra time right now.

Back in 2006 and 2007 Marvel Comics decided to have an event. You probably heard about it and they made a big movie about it. Civil War. Civil War was promoted as being a huge rift that cut down through the lines of the Marvel 616 Universe. Do you register and be accounted for your actions as a super human, or do you protect the privacy of yourself and your loved ones in an effort to fight without the limitations of government and the fear you might be policed and punished just for having powers AND put your family at risk of Supervillains (many who are tech geniuses) accessing your information and attacking your loved ones.

That was the premise. What it ended up being was a huge divorce between Steve and Tony. Like LEGIT it read as this HUGE divorce. They’ve fought many times before but they always sort of end up back together as buds. Now as fandom we took that full stop as they are clearly in love. They are divorced.

And now Steve is dead. LETS FIX IT. So since 2006-2007 a huge wave of new fans started writing fanfic. Started doing fanart. We got horny Commander Rogers when Steve eventually came back. Tony wiped his brain and we got fics from that. Steve creates his own team and refuses to give Thor and Tony to Luke to use as Avengers.

Then in 2008 Iron Man 1 is released. A bit later Captain America is released. Having known about the comics before and the rift between the two this is where yours truly gets involved. *Smash bros voice LYDIA HAS ENTERED THE HORNY GAME*

Captain America being released is also I believe the start of Steve/Bucky. Because in this universe Bucky isn’t a small child/teenager (A Robin to Cap’s Batman) so its less gross. (All things being honest I definitely drew bottom steve with young Bucky hohoho ho)

So then in 2012 Avenger 1 is released. And there’s a fresh wave of MCU fans. A lot came over from being 616/Ultimates fans but a lot were brand spanking new fans.

And then Winter Soldier was released. And it was a big gay romance between Cap and Bucky and the power of LOOVE!!!! AND FRIENDSHIPP!!!!!! Like in the WInter Soldier comics Steve has to use a cosmic cube to free Bucky’s mind and in the movie all it took was Steve Can-do attitude and his pure kokoro. Its great.

However. This is when TENSIONS RISE. Stucky being a relatively new ship and SteveTony being a fairly old ship have one common denominator and that’s Steve. And its the typical well this ship is better than that ship. This ship is older than that ship. This ship has more MEANING than that ship. This ship is PROBLEMATIC. And its been going on to this day. It escalated again when Civil War came out. Becaus Civil War is supposed to be a Steve movie but reads as an Avengers movie. But the big point of the movie is like in the comics the splitting of Steve and Tony. A big damned divorce. Now is that divorce a divorce because they can’t find a common ground, or is it that Steve’s love for Bucky over-rides his rational thought and makes him fairly hypocritical because well shit he just loves Bucky so much. He says it to Wanda “Rumlow said Bucky and I...”

It was a movie just asking for shipping wars to happen.

So that’s WHERE this stems from. But here’s the issue. I have no doubt there are plenty of SteveTony fans causing just as much shit as anyone else. But at least from my experience, the Stucky fans have been far and wide more aggressive in harassing artists, even artists who don’t speak English as a first language, harassing the actors, harassing the comic book writers and artists who don’t have anything to do with movies, claiming that they’re homophobic for wanting to have a story with Bucky (who is still in love with Natasha [and that’s a whole other ship war there]) team up with Hawkeye (who is also still mostly in love with Natasha) to hunt down Natasha. When the author said “Hey this story doesn’t have gay people in it unfortunately but here are a list of comics that have gay characters in it” they ignored them and continued saying they were being transphobic. Because the person happened to be a trans man and disagreeing with them was transphobia. Which had nothing to do with what had happened at all. They’re the same fans that in person and over radio harass Sebastian Stan so much that he has to hide who he’s dating.

They’re the same types of fans who call me a hateful cunt (which..probably true lbr) but I haven’t done anything recently. They’re the types of fans who come up to me at a con and whisper “Are you a stucky or a stony fan” And I (Because I was raised right) tell them “Oh I like both but I have a preference for Stony”. And then the person walks away. I’ve had friends tell me of their own horror stories at artist alleys where Stucky fans will open a book (clearly labeled as stevetony) go “UGH GROSS” and then put it down.

They’re the types of fans who refuse to watch an Iron Man movie but will say things like “I wish Tony would get captured and tortured by Hydra so he would know what Bucky felt like” (Which...omg that’s literally the first 20 minutes of the first iron man and the start of the MCU my dude)

They’ve attacked Thorki (and other ships and don’t get me wrong I get why people would complain about Thorki. Thorki;s generally know and don’t care about those complaints)

They’ve made entire articles on CBR, on Polygon on other internet news pages, as editors they’ve had some feisty tweets that causes some fans to worry that storylines they were enjoying (ex: Bucky/Natasha’s relationship) will get lost and destroyed in favor of a ship.

Now generally. This isn’t anything unusual. These fans exist in every fandom. And I have Stucky friends, (My BFF, one of my coworkers) and we get along just fine. Because we’re old ass ladies who realize that a ship doesn’t define our life. I think Stucky has some of the most jaw droppingly beautiful artwork this fandom has produced.

They just unfortunately have a lot of bad apples that seem to have only time to hassle other people and try to tear down other fans and have the loudest voices.

Also I’m 1000000% not saying that SteveTony fans probably don’t start as much shit as the rest but from my experience and from what I’ve seen SteveTony fans only ever bitch about Stuckys after the fact. After they’ve been hassled or saw something that was really rude or very non-canon complaints (if that last bit makes sense)

Oddly enough it kind of died down a little with the MCU killing half of the cast including Bucky (he’ll be fine I’m sure). But occassionally someone gets a lot of built up energy and wants to come into my ask box and tell me that I’m an elitist shipper.

PERSONALLY. I like to think of SteveTony and Stucky as Coke and Pepsi. You’re going to have a preference for one or the other. And you’re either gonna tell the waiter “I’d rather have a water” instead of the opposite one that you like, just agree and order what they have bc honestly who cares its basically the same or you’re going to be rude to the waiter, complain the entire time, leave a bad review on yelp and not tip him.

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brandxspandex · 7 years ago

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Thor: Ragnarok review of sorts

So I just went to see Thor: Ragnarok for a second time and I think that I’ve collated my thoughts enough to give an overview of my opinions on it. Under the cut because this got really long…

Firstly, what I didn’t like about it:

I wasn’t crazy about the way they killed off the Warriors Three with so little ceremony, especially Volstagg and Fandral (Hogun’s death was a bit better). Volstagg in particular is a pretty major and beloved character in the Thor mythos so to see him done away with like that was unpleasant. It’s made even worse by the fact that The Dark World implied that MCU Volstagg has a family with a bunch of little children like 616 Volstagg does.

I similarly didn’t like the way they wrote off Thor’s relationship with Jane Foster with the same casual disregard. I didn’t even like the Thor/Jane plotline and kinda wished they’d never taken that particular path in the first place, but it really irks me when a story sets up a particular relationship or character or plotline or whatever as important and something we should be emotionally invested in, and then proceeds to write it off as though it never mattered. It weakens my trust in the narrative, as it makes me wonder why I should get invested in anything else it pushes me to care about, if there’s a chance it’s just gonna act like it was never important later on. Plus, even if I personally may not have particularly cared, it makes me feel bad for people who did. Sure, more often than not people’s ships don’t work out in canon, and you just have to live with it, but it’s a whole other level of insult to have your ship just tossed away as though it never meant anything. Contrast this with how they dealt with Bruce/Natasha in the movie; I don’t really care for that pairing whatsoever, but I’m still glad they acknowledged it in a way that was consistent with the way it was presented in Age of Ultron. Ultimately, while certain relationships don’t do it for me and I personally think they drag down the narrative, I think that if they’re going to be done away with, it should be nonetheless done in a manner that is respectful to way the relationships have been presented up to that point.

While I enjoyed Hela, as I will expand upon a little further on, I couldn’t help but feel somewhat underwhelmed by her character, knowing how much cooler the comic book character she’s based on is. As keen as I was for Hela, I knew that there was no way they were going to manage to make her as interesting as her 616 counterpart, but I nonetheless hoped they’d chuck in some little reference to the clusterfuck of factors that make her so fascinating in the comics, but there wasn’t really anything like that. On that note, I was hoping that there would be some interesting Hela and Loki interaction, given they have such a major relationship in the comics (not to mention the connection between their mythological counterparts), but they barely interacted at all. I was also really hoping that Hela was going to survive in order to act as a substitute for Mistress Death and Thanos’s object of obsession, and whilst that still isn’t completely off the table, it honestly didn’t feel like they were setting that up after all. Still, I can hope.

On a more minor note, I was a bit irked that the after-credits scene from Doctor Strange ended up being a scene in the film. It felt a bit like being retroactively robbed of an after-credits scene since there is no longer any point in watching it on its own at the end of Doctor Strange.

As for the things I was more ambivalent about:

I had mixed feelings about the humour in the film. On one hand, I love comedy and levity, especially when it is mixed with other genres I’m into. In fact, the humour that runs through the MCU is a big part of why I love it so much. On the other hand, when the humour of an established setting is suddenly amped up, particularly when it smacks of a very particular (and new) style of comedy as it did in this film, it can feel rather discombobulating, almost like the rules of that universe have spontaneously shifted to make this string of funny things happen. So while I found the humour in the film to be a lot of fun, I did feel that sense of discombobulation.

On a related note, Thor’s characterisation in particular felt like it shifted quite a bit to fit the style of humour in the film. I enjoyed his characterisation, but I couldn’t shake the feeling that it was quite the break from how he acted in previous films. I guess I’d have to watch this movie back to back with some of the previous ones to determine whether or not this is a valid feeling. It is something that does seem to happen quite a bit, I find; certain creators have a very particular way of handling characterisation that causes a lot of characters to take on a certain…tone, when they are written by said creator. I got the sense that was going on in this film.

I’m not sure how to feel about the destruction of Mjolnir. On one hand it was a bold move, but on the other it takes away the most iconic thing about Thor.

They didn’t show Thor and Loki hugging at the end, and while I’m sort of outraged, I also have to wonder if cutting away actually made it all the more impactful, but I guess we’ll never know for sure.

Things I thoroughly enjoyed about the film:

While I found Hela’s overall character rather underwhelming, I certainly can’t fault the stunning way she looked or the overwhelming amount of swag she simply radiated; it was glorious. I would have liked to have it wrapped around a more interesting backstory and/or character motivation, but I can at least relish this shining beacon of sassy goth villainy.

It is also good to know that Hela is at least still a dog person in the MCU, and Fenrir was a very fine example a death goddess’s best friend.

How fricking cool was that seemingly ROCKET POWERED DRAGON at the beginning???

I found myself endeared to Valkyrie the moment she drunkenly staggered off the walkway of her spaceship and then proceeded to mow down a gaggle of scavengers with gauntlets that controlled her ship’s turrets. It was a good first impression.

Both the Hulk and Bruce Banner were fabulous, funny inclusions in the movie, and I really enjoyed their interactions with both Thor and Valkyrie. Honestly, if either Bruce or Valkyrie end up romantically involved with anyone, I think I’d most prefer for it to be with one another.

Doctor Strange was also a fun inclusion from start to end.

I also loved how Thor had Mjolnir disguised as an umbrella during those Earth-bound scenes, in reference to the old comics where it would transform into a walking stick. They even had the detail where he taps it against the ground to transform into his Asgardian garb.

The Grandmaster (and his fricking orgy ship) was just a whole lot of fun.

As was that bloody Kiwi space rock (and his ant friend)…but let’s be real, the mere existence of New Zealand is funny in itself.

While the revelations about Odin and the royal family weren’t explored nearly enough for my liking, they certainly provided a goldmine of worldbuilding and fanfiction possibilities for fandom to play with.

Finally, the things about the movie that I loved:

When I first became invested in the MCU one of my favourite things about it was the bond that formed between Bruce Banner and Tony Stark in The Avengers, so I felt a bit bummed by some of the more recent films in which that relationship seemed to fall to the wayside. Therefore, the way Bruce kept mentioning Tony in this film, even if they were little, incidental mentions, made me very, very happy. I really hope this means their relationship hasn’t been forgotten after all.

Personally I was never truly convinced that Loki killed Odin at the end of The Dark World, but I was very glad to have it confirmed that Loki just dumped him on Earth. Loki’s desperate love for Odin was the thing that ultimately won me over to his character in the first place, and I think that would have been ruined for me if it turned out that he had killed him. I think the way the movie dealt with Odin overall was pretty spot on actually; it introduced the darker elements of his character that have been apparent in the comics for some time, but kept his characterisation nonetheless consist with how he was portrayed in the former films. I was quite satisfied with how his arc played out.

Out of all the characters in the movie, I feel like the tone suited Loki the best. After all, it makes sense that a god of mischief would be at home in a bizarro comedy. Whilst I felt that a number of the other characters had shifted their behaviour slightly to suit the film’s comedic tone, Loki’s characterisation felt completely natural to me. Now that I think about it, I think Loki’s been growing progressively funnier over the course of each movie he pops up in, which is great since he absolutely should be funny. Don’t get me wrong, I loved angsty little Loki from the first Thor movie, but he really needs to have a solid dose of mischief served up alongside all that angst. Honestly, what are the more quintessential ingredients of Loki than angst and mischief? I feel as though that scene of Loki masquerading as a suspiciously fruity Odin, building statues of himself and watching dramatic theatre about his life would seem like absurd Flanderization for most other characters, but for Loki it felt as though he was finally becoming the character he was always meant to be.

I furthermore loved the character arc Loki undertook in this film; it felt like a really organic progression from his character growth in The Dark World. What really got me was that scene where Thor tells Loki that although he refuses to change, he could be more, because if that isn’t a Journey into Mystery/Agent of Asgard reference then it’s a hell of a coincidence.

On that note, Thor and Loki’s interactions were wonderful; a fantastic blend of funny and heartfelt, antagonistic and cooperative. Basically their relationship in this film was everything I want to see from their comic counterparts that Marvel keeps refusing to show me goddammit.

I loved the unique aesthetic of the film both visually and aurally; such a cool combination of the high fantasy thing the other two Thor films had going on and the synthy, 80s Kirby-esque sci-fi element that they introduced. Seriously, what other movie looks and sounds like this one does?

Admittedly I’m only really familiar with 616 Skurge from the Walter Simonson 80s run, in which he doesn’t have that many appearances, but of course it does contain his most notable appearance, and I loved the way they adapted that into the film. It might even be my favourite scene in the movie. Skurge’s whole character arc was really the cherry on top of this film for me.

LOOP ZOOP

But fricking seriously how the hell did we get to the third movie in a Thor movie trilogy and only now they’re playing Immigrant Song?

I did not see that twist on the Ragnarok thing coming and honestly I was pretty impressed by it; I especially liked how they subverted expectations in regards to Loki being responsible for instigating Ragnarok by indeed having him directly responsible, but for reasons I never could have anticipated.

While Infinity War is probably gonna screw it all up, I loved the promise presented by set-up at the end with Thor being the Captain King of a starship of homeless space fantasy gods traversing the stars, with Loki by his side. Holy shit I desperately want to watch a sci-fi series spinning off from this premise.

SAFE PASSAGE THROUGH THE ANUS

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geekade · 8 years ago

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Welcome to the D-List: Hairball

Since early childhood, I’ve absolutely loved cats. My mother has never owned less than 2 of them, so I had a wonderful time playing with various felines as I grew up. While I certainly love all animals, cats have always had a special place in my heart, so I was extremely happy when I discovered this month’s D-Lister many years ago.

For the first two decades of his existence, Niels was exactly what you’d think: a pet cat. Writers never granted him more than a simplistic personality, and no one attempted to develop him as a character until recent years. Less than a decade ago, Niels was featured in a few miniseries where he was given plenty of characterization, but he has made only scant appearances since. Such a meow-velous feline, it’s time to welcome Hairball to the D-List.

Niels first appeared in Speedball #1 in 1988. Created by Steve Ditko and Roger Stern, Niels belonged to a scientist named Dr. Benson, who conducted research at a lab. Local teenager, Robbie Baldwin, worked part-time at the facility and wanted to watch one of Benson’s experiments take place. The scientist tapped into an extra-dimensional energy source, but the energy was accidentally blasted into the room and struck Robbie. The teenager learned that he had gained the power to create and direct a force-field of kinetic energy, which granted him the ability to move like a human bouncing-ball. With his newfound power, Robbie decided to become a hero and took the codename, “Speedball.” Robbie also learned that Niels was present during the experiment, because the cat gained the same power. Unfortunately, Niels became a predictable gimmick – Robbie would try to catch Niels, and the cat would bounce away.

While Niels wasn’t given an exceptionally original personality, at least he made more than just nominal appearances in a few stories. However, those stories were absolutely ridiculous. For example, a giant rat with a gun tried to kill local cats, but Niels managed to save one from harm. Later, alien-cats tried catching Niels with giant fishing nets (because fishing nets are certainly the pinnacle of cat-capturing technology). Niels did manage to kick (or claw) some ass, however, when he helped Speedball defeat a local criminal – Niels spat kinetic energy at the villain and knocked him unconscious.

I’m certainly grateful for some of what Steve Ditko contributed to comics, including Spider-Man and much of the hero’s rogues’ gallery, but surely the absurdity of its stories led to Speedball’s quick cancellation. However, Niels appeared shortly thereafter in the New Warriors series with Robbie as his owner, and the cat was granted thought-balloons. Unfortunately, he had a very stereotypical personality – Niels thought about terrorizing the neighborhood birds and eating salmon (stop feline profiling).

This cat had superpowers, so why wasn’t he involved in more action? He and Robbie could’ve teamed up on a regular basis – I’m sure plenty of fun stories could’ve been written. Alas, after years of no appearances, Niels was shown getting dragged through Robbie’s emo phase (Niels’ favorite band? Meow Chemical Romance). Speedball blamed himself for the destruction in Connecticut that killed hundreds of people after a fight with some supervillains went wrong. In response, he fashioned a costume for himself that was covered with spikes and changed his codename to “Penance.” Robbie stuck Niels in a smaller spikey suit and dubbed him, “P-Cat, the Penitent Puss.” Thankfully, this phase didn’t last long.

Later, in New York City, Niels was being chased by Aunt May’s dog, who was named Ms. Lion, even though he was a male. The extremely stupid dog thought the two were playing, even though Niels was clearly annoyed and threw energy balls at the canine (quite a hissy-fit). The Inhuman puppy, Lockjaw, learned that the infinity gems were missing and scattered around the world. Lockjaw and Frog-Thor decided to put a team of animals together in order to locate the stones, and dubbed themselves, “Pet Avengers.” Niels joined the team, and called himself, “Hairball.” Unfortunately, Ms. Lion wanted to tag along, much to the chagrin of the cat.

This was the first time that Niels was given a unique personality, and it was certainly a grumpy and sarcastic one. It was hilarious to watch Niels and Ms. Lion interact; the rest of the Pet Avengers seemed to tolerate Ms. Lion, but Hairball frequently made demeaning and even threatening comments to the dog. At one point, Niels even threatened to eat Falcon's sidekick, Redwing. I loved this cat with all my heart.

While Hairball certainly seemed like a jackass, he was a brave feline and always ready to fight. As one of the smallest members of the team, Hairball didn't have a size-advantage when the team faced Devil Dinosaur or Thanos, but he leapt into action and hurled energy balls at the enormous villains in order to secure the infinity gems. What Niels lacked in patience, he certainly made up for in heroism (but he should really smoke some catnip and mellow out).

The Pet Avengers helped Fin Fang Foom and some of his dragon buddies protect eggs which were buried under China for safe-keeping. The Avengers thought that the beasts were there to cause destruction, so the human heroes attacked the monsters. Since the Pets couldn't communicate with the Avengers, the animals simply tried to buy the dragons some time. Hairball fought Spider-Man, and hilarity ensued. Once the dragon's innocent intentions were clear and the situation was resolved, the Avengers gave the Pets their own mansion and Hairball had his own enormous cat-house inside (with a litter box fit for a king).

I loved Hairball's sarcasm, wit, and air of superiority. Regardless of his short temper, Hairball was an asset to his team. I wish that the Pet Avengers were given their own ongoing series, but unfortunately, the team was only featured in a few miniseries and haven’t appeared together in quite a few years. To my knowledge, Niels' most recent appearance showed him living with Jim Hammond, the original Human Torch. S.H.I.E.L.D. had been keeping Hairball caged in a lab, and Hammond rescued the feline.

I don’t believe that Hairball has ever appeared outside of Marvel Comics’ Earth-616 Universe, which is a shame, because this cool cat deserves more recognition. I’ve heard rumors of a New Warriors' sitcom coming to TV, so if Speedball is included, maybe Niels will also make an appearance. I certainly hope so, because there aren’t enough super-powered cats in pop culture. Could there ever be an “Avengers vs. Pet Avengers” movie? Fans can only hope.

So because Hairball is an animal, he can’t have as much of the spotlight as human characters? Way to practice speciesism, Marvel. However, I am very happy that a writer actually gave Hairball a personality. He might be a jerk, but what would you expect from a cat who lives in New York City? Regardless of his rough temperament, Niels has proven himself to be a hero, and it is my hope that Hairball continues to bring his courage and bad cat-itude to the Marvel Universe for many years to come.

#Comics #articles

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