#in any true way the “actual” and /full/ nature of any given thing.. regardless of what it is

[flare-dragon]

(tl;dr: It's funny that, with the infinite ways anything could potentially be, we often show similar ways of thinking to one another)

I've been having a certain kind of existential philosophical discussion in my head for the past weeks (in this case, thinking of the literal reality of all things in a way our words could never capture), and I kinda just realised something that, to my mind, is absolutely hilarious:

The Limitations of Humanity

Like, certain things will be similar to others, if only by "law of large numbers", but it's funny that, though we often apply similar actions to other animals (think of dogs' begging and cats' natural curiosity) and generally (though not never) don't think of human's regular habits in the same way.

I'm reminded of a certain bullet hell series (Touhou, for the curious) and the sheer variety of bullet patterns the series has used for the various characters (The fact that he has 26 titles (ignoring fighting games) with so few accidentally identical/near-identical patterns is a miracle, honestly), and with the 100s of fangames that exist, there are so many bullet styles and interactions that create similar, if not near-identical, attack waves.

And it's funny since it's less that 3D space and motion is limited in that way and more that we can only conceive of so many based on our observations and prior learning. You may come up with a concept similar to someone else's and it won't be from its creator being an influence of yours, but rather just two points coming to similar conclusions based on the way our brains are predisposed to.

It's certainly not the only thing we can see the way we tend to veer towards certain perspectives, but it's an interesting point to observe these limitations. Even when we consider people who experience "outside the typical range of experiences" (kind of a dumb concept, if not for the nature of standard reproduction), there's still a limit to the range of experiences and thought patterns a human can have.

There's no possible way to reach the limit in the ways that a person can exist (since even matter as we know it is only one way any given thing could possibly exist. I can't word it in a way that translate the thoughts I have, but think of a stationary atom being seen as an infinite different number of things), but the idea that we tend to coalesce into certain regular behaviours, and veer towards them unconsciously - whether by shared stimuli creating similar interactions or the behaviour of our cells naturally veering towards similar circuits - is pretty funny to me to be honest.

The infinite number of ways that a human can be is somehow still such an infinitely small number of ways any given thing can be. The amount of similarities we can find in each other, despite the vastness of everything, is funny.

[mini-jiminie]

Ngl, jimin's military notes to men being discharged make me question interpretations I had about his behavior towards jungkook. Like some of his behavior/speech that I found to be uniquely cute or sweet with jungkook seems to be his behavior/speech more broadly towards younger men he might be in a "hyung" position to. For example calling another soldier "my baby" or ending the comments with "I love you" or his cute kind of teasing like "how could you leave me".

I know jimin is literally always full of love anyway, but its just the kind of stuff I always associated to being specific to jikook's dynamic. Now actually seeing even just snippets of him interacting with more men younger than him, its making me wonder if that's just how he is in a hyung dynamic. Its also making me think about the reality that we actually have very few relationships to compare jikook's too when we decide that its unique or somehow romantically special. Like we basically have the other members and their couple of friends we've seen public interactions of to scrutinize. Other than that, we don't know how they are in other types of relationships. Like we rarely see jimin in the hyung role because jungkook is the only one in bts who he is actually the hyung of (even if tae might be a bit childish at times LOL I say this with love), and none of jimin's prominent friends are younger than him, like taemin or sungwoon. Its not a bad thing, its just making me question how I interpreted some of his behavior with jungkook in the past and if it was actually unique to their dynamic for jimin, or if its just how he is generally toward that hierarchy demographic that we rarely see him with.

Ok first of all, isn't jm absolutely adorable? All these little notes he's been writing have made me feel so much relief. He and jk seem to be surrounded by a great group of people.

I'm not a Korean speaker so, I can't give you a 100% read on the language and how jm uses it but, @haedalkoo's recently made a post regarding what you're mentioning:

When it comes to jkk's dynamic, their hyung-dongsaeng interactions weren't something that I ever really raised an eyebrow at. I come from an Asian background myself so I can understand the cultural nuances when it comes to using honorifics and the importance of age hierarchies.

How jm treats jk, calling him "내 새끼" (my baby/ little one), is very typical of how someone older speaks to someone younger. In this case, jm says it in a very indulgent tone. I think jm is someone who thrives in a care-taking role. He loves doting on those around him regardless of their ages but, especially when it comes to tae and jk. The word 'baby' (새끼), as haedalkoo brings up, doesn't necessarily have romantic connotations to it. You can use the term when speaking to a literal infant or a pet. My interpretation is that you use it when you're almost overwhelmed with fondness.

I don't think it's ever been something that's unique to jkk because it's simply a term of endearment that you can use for any younger person. If anything, it shows that they’re very close.

What is eyebrow-raising to me, however, is their occasional lack of shits given to this age hierarchy. We just discussed how jm is very comfortable in a hyung role. I would say he's actually a very staunch abider to this hierarchy. He's unfailingly polite and often regards his older members with the term 'hyung-nim', which is overly formal for the nature of their relationships. Ik he probably says it in an exaggerated way sometimes but, regardless, you'll never catch him slipping. He kinda tries to assert his 2-month age leverage over tae sometimes and it's pretty funny.

Now, it is true that we can't compare jm in a hyung role to anyone else in bangtan but jk. He's the only one younger than him. BUT, you know who we can poke at? Jeon Jungkook.

Jk has 6 hyungs. I definitely think he's more lax with honorifics these days but, it's mostly when he's cracking jokes (e.g. recent obsession with yelling 'yoon gey'). But, other times he speaks to them using honorifics and with formal speech. Here is where we can compare.

I feel like jk's one exception to these strict age hierarchies is jm (cause jm's resolve turns into dust when they're together). It would be one thing if jk is constantly dropping honorifics and speaking more informally to get a rise out of him but, that's not the case. In a lot of their casual conversations, they use informal speech with one another, speaking as if they are same-age friends. And what is crazy is that jm seemingly doesn't care at all. He's also suspiciously very accepting of the fact that he's 'last' in jk's bangtan hierarchy.

Again, very eyebrow-raise-worthy. In their cultural context, even a 2-year age difference warrants boundaries. Yoongi and Seokjin's 4-month age gap still requires a hyung-dongsaeng dynamic simply because they were born in different years. So, the fact that jkk have such a casual dynamic is very interesting and very unlike the other hyung-dongsaeng dynamics in bangtan.

In Sapparo, they have that conversation about meeting as same-age friends. I was honestly pleasantly surprised when jk brought it up. I was even more shocked when jm readily entertained the idea. It was almost as if the thought was nothing new to him.

Why was I so shocked? 'Meeting as same-aged friends' implies that jk wonders what their dynamic would've been like without the initial age barriers. They could've begun their relationship based on the sense of being equals. We can see how important this is when we consider the dynamics between namseok or vmin. They just click. What I got from that conversation was jk posing the idea of 'imagine how close we would've been from the get-go.'

What's equally interesting is that I think jm's casualness to the whole hypothetical came from the fact that they already see one another as equals. Those age barriers don't seem to affect the nature of their relationship.

Their dynamic is something that's both puzzled and fascinated me for years. Jm treats jk how it is expected of him as an elder but, their relationship is so much more than just that. The nature of their relationship both does and doesn't adhere to the cultural expectations they've been brought up in. I think that's the most interesting thing about them :)

Thank you for the ask! <3

[poisonwept]

𝐞𝐥𝐢𝐚𝐧 𝐚𝐥𝐯𝐚𝐫𝐞𝐳 : he gift wraps self - sacrifice and calls it love ; he has never known how to love any other way . he has never given his heart in scraps . it has always been laid bare , whole and beating , on the altar .

𝐢. 𝐢𝐧𝐭𝐫𝐨𝐝𝐮𝐜𝐭𝐢𝐨𝐧.

elian  alvarez,    as  usual  carrying  their  TATTERED,  WORN  -  THROUGH,  LEATHER  -  BOUND  JOURNAL  .  .  .  PAGES  UPON  PAGES…  ALL  WITH  CERTAIN  THINGS  CROSSED  OUT.   a thirty  -  four  (  196  years  spent  alive  ;  162  years  spent  undead  )    year  old    vampire    with  their  sun  in  leo,    and  their  day  mostly  occupied  by    tending  to  the  endless  archives  as  a  curator  for  the  museum  of  natural  history.    they  quite  enjoy    the  quaint  afternoons  spent  alone  in  the  museum  halls  with  the  ghost  of  a  time  passed  the  only  guest,  the  metronome  of  a  clock  keeping  perfect  time  —  the  grounding  reminder  of  the  passage,  though  he  no  longer  ages,  and  the  scent  of  freshly  brewed  black  coffee    which  might  or  might  not  be  responsible  for  their    candid  /  polished  /  brazen  /  irascible  /  cynical  /  perceptive    nature.    he    isn't    an  oldham  local,    yet  the  ocean’s  waves  brought  us  tales  about  them  regardless,    about  how  the  bite  was  not  a  gift,  try  as  he  might  now  to  convince  himself  otherwise,  but  the  cross  bestowed  upon  him  to  bear,  for  better  or  for  worse  ;  the  taste  of  the  last  hail  mary  still  sticks  to  the  spaces  between  his  teeth,  syllables  caught  in  the  confines  of  his  throat,  unspoken  but  far  from  forgotten  ;  there's  an  old  book  tucked  away,  shoved  deep  in  the  confines  of  a  closet,  the  pages  fragile  from  years  of  unuse,  opening  with  the  words  :  '  in  the  beginning  '  .  .  .  he  claims  not  to  remember  the  rest.   

𝐢𝐢. 𝐛𝐚𝐬𝐢𝐜𝐬 .

full name : elian santiago alvarez . nicknames : only his mother ever dared to refer to him as ' el . ' actual age : one hundred and ninety - six . physical age : eternally thirty - four . birth date : july 30th . gender identity : cis - man . pronouns : he / his . orientation : gay — it's . . . complicated . place of birth : mexico city , mexico . nationality : mexican . face claim : diego boneta .

𝐢𝐢𝐢. 𝐚𝐩𝐩𝐞𝐚𝐫𝐚𝐧𝐜𝐞 .

height : five foot , eleven inches . build : athletic , toned , sturdy . hair : kept short , the hint of curls perfectly maintained . eyes : dark , gaze often hardened . attire : classic curator - chic , dark academia inspired . occasionally questionable . tattoos : none . scars : the remnants of two perfect puncture marks , at home on the left side of his neck . piercings : none . other features : a penchant for glasses , solely for aesthetic purposes . never clean - shaven — facial hair is all but a requirement .

𝐢𝐯. 𝐡𝐨𝐦𝐞 - 𝐥𝐢𝐟𝐞 .

parents : valeria garcia alvarez ( mother . deceased . ) / fernando alvarez ( father . deceased . ) siblings : isabella alvarez ( older sister . deceased . ) / narcisa alvarez ( older sister . deceased . ) religion : catholic ; semi - practicing , yet wholly devout . spoken languages : english ( fluent ) , spanish ( fluent ) , latin ( fluent ) , french ( conversational ) .

𝐯. 𝐚𝐞𝐬𝐭𝐡𝐞𝐭𝐢𝐜𝐬 .

sun : leo . moon : sagittarius . rising : leo . myers - briggs : entp . alignment : lawful - evil / true - neutral . enneagram : the achiever . soul type : the warrior . temperament : choleric . element : fire . aesthetic : the unanswered prayer .

𝐯𝐢. 𝐦𝐨𝐫𝐚𝐥 𝐨𝐟 𝐭𝐡𝐞 𝐬𝐭𝐨𝐫𝐲 .

tw : implied internalized homophobia + gratuitous use of religious imagery / the concept of catholic guilt.

the choice to dedicate himself to seminary, taking the vows of both poverty & chastity, had been an easy one — a calling of sorts, if you will, divine fate. his mother had wept at the thought, mourned the loss of grandchildren he never had the heart to tell her that she never would have had regardless, & the kiss pressed against his cheek upon his departure burned long after the doors shut & the train departed from the station. the road less traveled is the road worth taking, or so he thought.

his name was lorenzo, his tongue curling around an accent elian could never quite place. he spun stories of worlds beyond the confines of the city center, settlements near & far, each grander than the last. he found elian in the shadows every fortnight, when the path back to seminary had led him past that one particular alleyway, an hour or two not too steep of an ask. he was fond, though he'd never admit it, could never bring himself to make that confession, but it was there nonetheless, tucked neatly in the spaces between his ribs, a secret held between his teeth.

judas had loved jesus, you see.

in the end, maybe that's why he betrayed him.

his last breath had been on the promise of forever, teeth tucked sharp against his neck, & the flash of victory in lorenzo's eyes should have been enough for him to heed the warning, but he fell as lucifer had fallen from the grace of god, his own teeth sinking into the apple forbidden as teeth sunk into the tender expanse of his neck.

that was the last time he saw lorenzo, & in hindsight, it shouldn't have come as a surprise. just as eve had found herself susceptible, tempted, he found himself fallen from grace, cast out of the kingdom. it serves him right, though it kills what little humanity is left inside to admit it.

they say oldham appears only to those that need it the most. perhaps that's why he's found himself here, pacing the halls of the museum of natural history, watching the years tick by though he never gets any older.

everything has a price. was it worth it ?

𝐯𝐢𝐢. 𝐡𝐞𝐚𝐝𝐜𝐚𝐧𝐨𝐧𝐬 .

elian has an extremely . . . complicated relationship with the intersection of religion + sexuality. he isn't closeted per se, but his identity as a gay man comes with its own set of challenges, given his upbringing.

despite sounding like a complete and utter drag of a bore, he's actually quite up - to - date on pop culture and finds gen z to be the most hilarious of the generations he's had the unfortunate displeasure of witnessing.

the museum is where he spends the majority of his time. being at home, alone with his own thoughts, is a road he doesn't enjoy strolling down. while he's often alone at the museum, save for the occasional visitor, it's easier to be amongst the living . . . even if they're only alive through the memories and exhibits in the halls.

thinks the whole "anti - garlic" thing re : vampires is a major drag. who doesn't love garlic ? he sure as fuck loved it before he was turned !

despite everything he's been through, he lives to see the good in others. though he doesn't trust as easily as he once did, he does believe that folks are generally inherently good.

saw his sister, narcisa, once after he was turned. she looked as if she'd seen a ghost. he's never spoken about it to anyone.

wears glasses solely for the aesthetics. yes, the lenses are clear glass. yes, he knows that everyone knows that. no, he will not stop wearing them !

𝐯𝐢𝐢𝐢. 𝐭𝐨𝐨 𝐥𝐨𝐧𝐠 ; 𝐝𝐢𝐝𝐧'𝐭 𝐫𝐞𝐚𝐝 .

just little gay elian being tempted into giving up everything for a man who left him immediately after because he was just . . . frankly stupidly naive & trusting. insert vague hand - waving. now he's a vampire. who wears glasses he doesn't need. just because !

[stars-in-a-jam-jar]

So like. Privacy and consent. Are things very close to my heart. If I'm not being charged with a literal actual crime, and I don't need you to know a piece of information that I am a source of, and I don't want to give that information to you, the very act of demanding access to the information from me is a breach in (at minimum) basic etiquette.

I say this because I saw a person say 'I don't believe in private information' and while in context, the gist of it was that if a piece of information exists, it then cannot be owned and arbitrated by any individual therefore attempting to cordon off 'private' and 'public' information to control the flow of said information is not a valuable task and in fact easily connects/could lead to abusive censorship; while I realized as I kept baffledly reading this was their true thesis when they said 'I don't believe in private information', I knew in my heart that they were looking at and using the words 'privacy' and 'information' all wrong.

I am always hesitant to make a new online account for something, to give an email, a phone number, answers to questions like 'What was your mother's maiden name?' And 'What was the name of your elementary school?' to a little machine someone has placed in front of whatever it is I need the account for. A machine that now has that information as long as the servers it operates from exist. I've given information that represents pieces of me to something that can't understand the concept of privacy and consent, it just runs its routines and does what it's built to do. Keep everybody's login organized and keep track of the when's and the where's and how many times you got your password wrong or changed it in a huff. I like the little machine, it's doing its job the best it can, and there are things worth sharing the information on how I can be reached and little pieces of trivia about me for when I can't remember the original thing I agreed to use to pass through.

But that doesn't mean I am not the information's arbiter. It all belongs to me, even if I share it for a utility or a small luxury. And in that same way, if I share a piece of information with one person- a piece of information understood to be personal and private like a truth about my personal situation or the location of something of personal importance -and they turn around without consulting me and tell it to someone they know: that is no longer a breach in etiquette. That is a breach in privacy and consent. The hypothetical information was not some tidbit I or they came across, not something I publically shared, not a fiction I shared with them for entertainment. To spread it as though it isn't my information to dole out now that I've told one person in confidence is a kind of disrespect and disregard for privacy and consent that makes my blood boil.

I didn't mention this at the top, but that phrase I saw was the result of a philosophically leaning back and forth about the whole situation going down with the AIs scraping Ao3 among other sites for raw materials to develop and train its neural networks all without so much as notifying the original writers, and I still think my convictions on privacy and consent hold there, just in a different form than person to person exchanges or little machines filing away information that could be easily misused if cracked by a malicious actor.

When a person publishes a piece of their writing, that piece as they wrote it is now public. If it's fiction, it's a public story. If it's an article, it's public information regardless of the information's factual, farcical, or opinionated nature. Even when the piece is made to pull in a profit for its existence, the information contained within is irrevocably public now and you cannot then say 'No, I want full control over who sees this, how they see it, and how much of it they see. I reserve the right to dictate the Correct Way to process and interact with my work!' It's not a breach in privacy or consent if someone or a group of people you don't like see and know information you publish publically. (It's a breach in Basic Decency for someone or a group of people to harass an author for daring to make something they disliked, but that's neither here nor there.)

It is a breach in consent to quietly and with the goal of profiting personally, take the time and thought and work of another person and use it without credit or warning for something they did not volunteer their time and thought and work towards. It doesn't matter that the information they published stopped being private when they published it, the context under which they consented to make their works public did not include the presence of roaming little machines taking their work, blending it up with countless works of people they don't know to turn it into a sludge of patterns and data points and subroutines, and repackaging and regurgitating the form of a real person's time and thought and work to make a fun new toy for people who can't be bothered to go to a real human person for their writing or to develop the skill within themself.

The thing is, the little machines can conceivably do lovely things. It's wonderful that people want so much to expand what their coding and programs and 1's and 0's can accomplish. But at the end of the day, the little machines can't understand the concept of privacy and consent. They just run their routines and do what they're built to do.

And I don't trust the people who built them. Because those people clearly have a malformed understanding of privacy and consent.

[ishouldgetadiary]

i don’t necessarily think that many people in my life get that i am often living in a completely different world to them in terms of what is going on in my brain and what i consider actually important or real. and i mean this in multiple ways but a big one is related to cis-heteronormativity

it's hard to talk about and hard to express because dont mean it in a mean or bad way and i dont want to insult my friends or family because i know that to them it's important and their 'natural order' but it reaches the point of such heavy cognitive dissonance for me where i genuinely dont know how to express to people in a fully authentic way, because when i engage in stupid conversations about boyfriends or friendship drama, it is out of maintaining the rules i have learnt about social conversation. unless there is actual full on suffering/abuse or active bigotry going on i dont really care that much if at all.

i am basically describing autistic masking when i say this but like in the ways it seems like i care, half the time there's a solid chance that i actually dont because it's just the social cue, i am saying the lines that i have prepackaged which are, at best, slightly altered for the conversation. they are all meant to be deemed acceptable for what you (and/or greater society) consider me to be, there are very few people who id say regularly get a fully authentic me regardless of if we're talking in person or via messaging/writing (i am most honest in writing. in my opinion).

it's also difficult when the schemas are very 'i have to pass as cishet' even when i dont have to, because in any given social situation i have to account for the fact that most people i talk to are not accustomed in their brain to think of me or most people in general as not cishet and i cant be bothered to interrogate that thought process for them no matter how much i despise it because it's easier to be surrounded by people who wont always fully respect you than it is to be lonely and too different (even tho i acknowledge even my ‘normal’ comes across as very weird)

what's even harder to explain (at least to cis people) is how i dont consider my very fem speech and presentation to be indicative that im a woman. especially when my actual behavioural inclinations and beliefs can be considered ‘’’masculine’’’. because i really dont think i am a woman, i dont fit into that fucking club and i dont think i ever have my entire life, even when i used to consider myself a girl. of course, there isnt such thing as a right way to be a woman but whatever it is, isnt me. i dont have that thing in my brain that is complacent in and just intuitively knows without thinking it that everything i do is in the box of ‘woman’. i dont think i really fit into that community. and you know, the people who want to turn that into a problem of how we treat women in society arent exactly wrong but they’re not at all right either and i dont care for that argument at all. i dont care to include my own self percieved outsider-dom or what have into the equation either because i dont think it gets anybody to the point of what im trying to describe as my problem.

in general i dont like the idea of anything i do being specifically one gender or the other and ingraining gender and the idea of gendered behaviours into people is just a scam meant to group and segregate plain old animals arbitrarily. half of our problems would be solved if our gender stereotypes didnt exist and everything was allowed to just Be because it leads to things like teaching men that masculinity means a lack of empathy and teaching women that femininity means shame (i dont have to say that that’s not true for everyone, you should know that already.) and it's all stupid and i would love to never be part of it again, whether it's in how others think of me or how i talk about things, but we live in a pretty fucked up world where i would be in a far greater danger to express this in person and say i dont want to give a shit about gender and to be considered as nothing and/or everything and showing that in my appearance than i would be (as i am) presenting as cisgender. and then there’s the bag of worms that comes with the fucking like, imposter syndrome i get even though i have all of these internal mechanisms just because i do present as cis and im closeted to my family about gender and grrrrrr

[atamascolily]

There's a famous story about the ancient Indian mathematician Sessa, who is said to have invented the game that would eventually be known as chess. As a reward for his services, his patron the King ordered he could have anything he wanted, and Sessa wished for a chessboard covered with rice, with one grain on the first square, two grains on the second square, four grains on the third square, eight grains on the fourth square, and doubling the number of grains each time until all sixty-four squares were covered.

The king, thinking this would be an easy task, agreed, only to discover he had promised more than he bargained for. You see, the total number of rice grains needed to fill the board was (2^64)−1 or 18,446,744,073,709,551,615 grains of rice. That's over 18 quintillion grains of rice, or 1.4 trillion metric tons, more than is produced annually in the world today, let alone in a single kingdom.

This story, which has a lot of variations and is popularly known as "the wheat and the chessboard problem" in mathematics, is about the power of exponential growth and how human beings are really, really bad at estimating its effects. I bring it up as an example here because I think that it vividly illustrates what Homura has inadvertently done to Madoka with her loops and why it has such a drastic effect.

Or to put it a different way, because of the way karmic destiny and causality work in this series (see the "Karmic Destiny, Magical Potential, and the Objectified Soul: What Happens When a Girl Contracts?" section of this essay by Imagak for one explanation), the impacts of Homura's loops are not linear, they are fundamentally exponential in nature, and thus are magnified far beyond what their actual number suggests.

So we're not talking about 14 here, we're actually talking about something like 2^14, or more than 16,000 times the impact of an "ordinary" human life. And given what kinds of miracles an "ordinary" human life is capable of, I think 14 loops would be more than sufficient to get the results we see at the end of the series. Even the original chessboard problem only went up to 2^64, and that was enough to overwhelm an entire planet--can you imagine what anything close to 2^100 would do???

[This is true regardless of how you choose to calculate the exact "weight" of karmic destiny; I'm just sticking with the base numbers for simplicity's sake. Likewise, you can debate exactly how the mechanics of karmic destiny work--maybe it doesn't follow this exact model--but the point remains that regardless of how you measure their effects, the timelines become more and more compounded over time because each one depends on a growing chain of causality involving all the previous timelines, which adds up considerably after only a few iterations, just like the chessboard problem.]

As for your other points, I'll note that Madoka Magica as a franchise has not been entirely consistent with its spinoffs and as a result, many of the examples you mention are either not considered canon to the main series, or cover some or all of the same timelines shown in the anime and Scene 0, so there's at least some amount of overlap (i.e., a storyline from one of the drama CDs about Amy the cat appears in Scene 0, for example). In general, however, Madoka Magica seems to content to continually re-visit the same material (lol) rather than invent new ones, at least in the sense of making them officially canonical, much to my disappointment.

Although it's playable in the Magia Record game (which is set in alternate universe that Madokami chose not to interfere with and thus remains isolated from the main series), Scene 0 itself does not reference any previous Magia Record characters or storylines and appears to be its own separate independent thing; its entire premise is that this is the "full" story that wasn't shown in the anime and everything I've seen of it has been fully canon-consistent thus far. Furthermore, Moemura is only present for the initial loops in Scene 0, transitioning rather quickly to the Coolmura we see later in the anime.

(I don't blame anyone for not following Scene 0, by the way--it is extremely long, and in my personal opinion, somewhat tedious and bloated, but there are English translations of the entire thing up on YouTube if anyone wants to check it out for themselves.)

As far as I know, the original Reddit post was removed because OP forgot to include spoiler tags, not because of its contents, but I agree that PMMM fans can be very aggressive in response to ideas they don't agree with. This is going to be very funny when Walpurgis no Kaiten comes out and blows everything up--if they do what I think they're going to do with that movie, it's going to make the backlash to Rebellion look like small potatoes, and a lot of people are going to be mad but for contradictory reasons. I think the long delay between installments had more to do with studio politics and behind the scenes drama than fan reaction, but there's no way to know for certain at this point.

Believe it or not, although I've written a lot about it just now, I'm actually agnostic on this particular subject. Mostly I just want to know why there are 14 Clara Dolls in Rebellion, and there being only 14 timelines is one of the most solid explanations I've come across thus far, with an actual mechanism to explain it, as opposed to "Inu Curry felt like it"--which may indeed be true, but feels unsatisfying in a movie where every other aesthetic choice is strongly grounded in the characters, themes and mechanics of the universe. You don't design that many individual characters without some kind of reason, and I desperately want to know what that is in this case.

That said, I honestly think the exact number of loops is one detail best left to the imagination (there's a reason why it was never mentioned in the anime, because it ultimately doesn't change the outcome there). Personally, I would have preferred it if Gen Urobuchi had left the number entirely up to fan interpretation instead of firing off an estimate that so many people take as definitive despite never appearing in the original source material! But the recent story developments in Scene 0 has made me wonder if SHAFT is moving towards a direct answer after all, and I'm keeping an eye out in case this ever appears again.

I saw an incredibly interesting theory on Reddit that has unfortunately been deleted by the mods, so I wanted to discuss it here because I've never seen it anywhere else. OP began by pointing out that there are 13 timelines in Scene 0 in Magia Record, and the ending implies that the main anime timeline is Homura's 14th loop overall.

This contradicts Urobuchi's oft-repeated statement from a con panel in 2013 that that the number of loops was "approaching 100", which a lot of fans take to be canon, but was never clearly defined in the original series. (For what it's worth, Urobuchi has also gone on the record saying he didn't think too much about the mechanics behind Homura's time travel, so I suspect this is one more example.)

If there are truly 14 timelines, then it would go along way towards explaining why there are 14 Clara Dolls: each one would thus be a metaphorical--and quite possibly literal--representation of one of Homura's time loops. You could also make a case for a possible 15th timeline after Madoka's wish resets the world to account for the "missing" 15th Clara Doll; I personally believe that "Ai" is the Homura we follow for most of Rebellion, so that isn't strictly necessary, but you do you.

As a bonus, it would also retroactively explain why there are 14 "strings of fate" binding Madoka and Homura in episode 11 - this might have originally been metaphorical, because the animators didn't want to draw so many strings (though I suppose they could have), but it would now be literal as well.

I know a lot of people are emotionally invested in the idea of 100+ loops, but this idea makes a lot of sense. Up until now, the exact number of loops has not been a major plot point (and only 5 are explicitly shown in the anime), but it will be interesting to see if this comes up in any capacity in Walpurgis no Kaiten.

[robininthelabyrinth]

Prompt: someone of the (good-ish) mdzs cast is a serial killer. Why? Who else knows? Could be modern au, could be canon verse

Serial Killer - ao3

“So what are you going to do about it, Xichen?” Jin Guangyao heard Nie Mingjue demanding, and paused, tilting his head to the side to listen rather than proceeding to enter the room.

Nie Mingjue had gotten increasingly irascible as of late, no doubt in large part to the growing influence of the Song of Turmoil that he’d been playing for him, and much of his ire was (correctly, although unknowingly) aimed at Jin Guangyao. Most of the time, given Nie Mingjue’s straightforward nature, it was directly aimed at him, rather than through an indirect method, such as trying to convince Lan Xichen to turn away from him – and yet that was a method that Jin Guangyao was far more concerned about, given that Nie Mingjue had the benefit of a very old friendship with Lan Xichen that could be used to his benefit, if only he were a little less blockheaded about manipulating people.

Jin Guangyao absolutely refused to lose Lan Xichen, delighting as he did in the man’s faith and trust and benefiting from his influence and repeated interventions on his behalf; as a result, he would treat any such attempts by Nie Mingjue to drive a wedge between them very seriously. It therefore would be better to stay outside and listen, to figure out what argument Nie Mingjue was using and design appropriate countermeasures – to convince Lan Xichen that Nie Mingjue was, as usual, making a fuss when there was no reason, and that it was safe to simply ignore him or downplay his concerns.

Lan Xichen would believe him, as he always did, and never realize that he was helping push Nie Mingjue along the road to ruin – or indeed realize that he was pivotal to Jin Guangyao’s plan. Without Lan Xichen to support Jin Guangyao and make Nie Mingjue mistrust his own instincts, it would be much harder to isolate him from the few people he was willing to turn to for help, subtly influencing him not to believe his own symptoms, to doubt himself…to not realize what Jin Guangyao was doing to him.

“Da-ge…”

“Don’t da-ge me! He’s killing people!”

Jin Guangyao tensed.

How had Nie Mingjue discovered that?

Jin Guangyao had taken every precaution, going to great lengths to misdirect attention and cover up those deaths, whether it be the clans he’d fed into Xue Yang’s noxious experiments or else the ones he’d just had quietly executed somewhere no one would notice because they represented a threat to the rising power of the Jin sect. He’d known, of course, that he’d be held responsible for those deaths if anyone ever found out, there was no doubt that he would scapegoated by his father in that case, but he knew that it was especially dangerous to him if the person who discovered the truth was Nie Mingjue. Sure, he had his excuses ready in the event that Lan Xichen ever heard about it and found some evidence – he had a plan: to first deny convincingly, and then if that didn’t work, deny increasingly unconvincingly, and finally ‘give in’ and confess that he’d been driven to it by his father, that he’d been under duress, the sort of thing that Lan Xichen would happily swallow rather than believe that he’d been so fundamentally mistaken about Jin Guangyao.

Nie Mingjue, though – he’d been concerned that if Nie Mingjue ever found out about it, even the rumor of it without any evidence, he wouldn’t bother waiting for Jin Guangyao to explain or to blame his father. No, that brute would rather just take his saber and come and execute him on the steps of Jinlin Tower, if that was what it took to satisfy justice in his own mind, and never mind the consequences or costs. That Nie Mingjue would likely commit an honorable suicide thereafter for having misjudged and then executed his sworn brother was not, in fact, anywhere near as comforting as Nie Mingjue might think it was.

If anything, Nie Mingjue going to Lan Xichen with his concerns first was highly unexpected.

Jin Guangyao hated the unexpected.

“Da-ge, please, calm down,” Lan Xichen said, and his voice was – oddly calm, really. Jin Guangyao would have expected him to be a little more agitated, a little more demanding for details…was Lan Xichen’s faith in him really so strong? “Think this through before you do anything rash.”

“Rash!” Nie Mingjue fumed. “Rash..! Xichen, really.”

“You know he’s a good person,” Lan Xichen insisted, and Jin Guangyao smiled. “He has always meant well, strived to do good, regardless of whether it was commonly accepted – even you have to admit it.”

“I don’t have to admit anything,” Nie Mingjue grumbled, but Jin Guangyao could hear the rage dying down to something more of a simmer, rather than a roaring boil. Truly only Lan Xichen had such remarkable abilities, soothing the fierce beast with nothing but his presence and voice, no magic songs required – even Jin Guangyao found himself soothed by his presence.

There was a reason he wouldn’t give him up.

“You’ve known him for years, da-ge,” Lan Xichen said, voice soft, convincing, persuasive. Jin Guangyao didn’t have to be inside the room to imagine the scene he would see: Lan Xichen would be leaning forward, the slightest curve adding softness to the rigid posture required of Lan sect disciples, his eyes curved in a smile, his head a little dropped so that he could look up at Nie Mingjue with an expression of cheerfulness livened by a touch of mischief – full of charm, the way the women in the brothel practiced all day to do, but superior to any of their petty tricks. Lan Xichen was pure as a breath of fresh air in the lonely mountaintop, a benevolent god above the concerns of the world and yet determined to reach out his hands down to the needy – truly it was no wonder that Jin Guangyao was determined to take all that benevolence and joy and keep it all to himself. “For years, da-ge. And more than that, you know how hard he’s had it – how hard things have been, how much he’s suffered, all those things that other people don’t understand. You know that even when he’s strayed and been confused, he’s always returned back to the right way of doing things in the end.”

Nie Mingjue sighed, a great exhalation of breath.

“I suppose you’re right,” he conceded, and Jin Guangyao felt the sharp taste of joy on his tongue – there were few feelings in the world so great as this, to have started with nothing and risen so far, to have so thoroughly deceived these men, even Nie Mingjue who ought to know better after having seen him. “And yet, I can’t help but worry – this doesn’t seem like the rest of it. Isn’t he going too far this time?”

“Da-ge, if you have concerns, why not raise them with him directly?” Lan Xichen suggested, and Jin Guangyao nodded in approval. If Nie Mingjue came to him first with any concerns, he would be able to devise the appropriate response to those concerns – whether it was through coming up with some method of assuaging the concerns or in preemptively eliminated whoever had raised them, that was his business. Either way, it would be much easier to take action when he had prior warning, whereas some sort of unexpected public confrontation would be much more difficult to deal with.

“I don’t know, Xichen. You know he doesn’t listen to me.”

“That’s not true! Your opinion means so much to him – he’s always admired you, looked up to you. He wants you to approve of him.”

That was nonsense, of course. Jin Guangyao hadn’t cared one whit for Nie Mingjue’s opinion of him since the day the man had lost his usefulness – the Nie sect had been a necessary hurdle for him, the only Great Sect that allowed for promotion purely on the basis of merit without a thousand and one other rules, and Nie Mingjue himself was known to promote men quickly if they had skills he could use. Jin Guangyao had needed that back then, when he’d had nothing, and he’d been able to parlay it into additional use in the future: first, by getting Nie Mingjue’s recommendation letter to enter the Jin sect troops, although that hadn’t ended up working out, and then later, by using it to leverage himself a position with the Wen sect, courtesy of Wen Ruohan’s strange fixation on the Nie sect leader.

Would he like Nie Mingjue’s good opinion? Certainly, especially after he’d traded his somewhat dubious claim to a life-debt for Nie Mingjue swearing brotherhood with him; it would be extremely helpful if Nie Mingjue would support him the way Lan Xichen did. But since it didn’t seem likely that he’d be able to get on Nie Mingjue’s good side again, there was no point in expecting anything further from the man.

Well, no, that was wrong. He also expected great things from Nie Mingjue’s upcoming death, which would tally in quite nicely with many of his plans for domination in the cultivation world.

“I’d like to approve of him,” Nie Mingjue said. “I really would, Xichen, you know that. He’s smart and he’s capable and he has so much potential for goodness – I greatly admire him, really, I do. I would even go so far as to say that there are things for which I would trust his word over the evidence of my own eyes.”

Jin Guangyao couldn’t help but preen a little.

What an idiot, he thought, smiling. Truly there was nothing in that man’s brain but saber, and everything else had long ago rotted away – the Song of Turmoil boiling him alive until he was pickled with rage, leaving nothing else behind. Certainly not any critical thinking skills.

That final qi deviation must not be far away, now.

“But at the same time,” Nie Mingjue continued, presumably that last bit of self-preservation instinct trying to ring the alarms. “At the same time, I really do think that this is different in kind. It’s literally murder, Xichen. He’s murdering people. Not just killing, the way you do in wartime – actual murder. Premeditated, pre-planned murder. How can you just look away from that?”

Lan Xichen was quiet for a long moment, and Jin Guangyao tensed a little, his head tilting towards the door, awaiting the answer with both anticipation and fear.

“I think it’s a little more complicated than that,” he finally said, and Jin Guangyao’s eyebrows arched a little in surprise and wholly unanticipated pleasure. “It’s not just his actions that I look at, but those that died, too – we killed many people during the war, da-ge, didn’t we? Not all of whom had done evil against us, but who had to go because of the evil they represented…”

“Xichen!” Nie Mingjue cried, and for once Jin Guangyao couldn’t help but side with his reaction, his shock. “Are you suggesting that the victims deserved it?”

“Is that really so hard to believe?” Lan Xichen asked. Jin Guangyao had to admit that he was deeply impressed – he wouldn’t have thought Lan Xichen, the perfect gentleman, would have had it in him to side with him quite so deeply as that. “I’m with you, Mingjue-xiong. I’d believe him over even myself in just about every case – every time I’ve questioned what he was doing, he explained, and when he explained, I understood. It isn’t as black and white as all that.”

“I mean…I guess,” Nie Mingjue said, still sounding shocked and a little appalled. “But murder – so many murders…Xichen, are you sure it’s not some sort of qi deviation, something that gives him pleasure in taking lives? Are you sure each one is justified?”

“Those are two separate questions,” Lan Xichen said delicately. “I do think he takes pleasure in the act, and although I don’t understand it myself, I can understand that it helps him deal with…everything, really. Everything that’s happened to him. The tragedy, the senselessness of it…maybe it helps him feel better about it, helps comfort him. Maybe it’s some sort of sense that he’s evening the scales, perhaps? Some overall karmic balance?”

Jin Guangyao nodded along. He could certainly see Lan Xichen talking himself into believing something like that, and who knew? Maybe it was even a little true. He certainly enjoyed taking out the trash that had seen itself as above him, enjoyed stamping their lives into the mud – he wouldn’t have done it if it wasn’t a necessity, a part of his power play, and he wouldn’t have described himself as taking pleasure in it, but at the same time, he certainly didn’t regret any of it. If it made Lan Xichen feel better to think that he had some sort of complex psychology driving his actions, well, so be it.

As long as he continued to support him.

“But as for whether it’s justified…” Lan Xichen sighed. “I’m not perfect at telling good from evil, Mingjue-xiong, and neither are you. No one is. Wouldn’t you agree?”

Nie Mingjue grunted. It almost sounded as if he really were agreeing.

Was Lan Xichen really convincing Nie Mingjue that Jin Guangyao ought to be allowed to murder people with impunity as long as he came up with a good enough reason for it in advance? How delightful.

Jin Guangyao couldn’t help but wonder – although he’d never actually take the risk of it – whether he could convince Lan Xichen that Nie Mingjue’s death, too, had been justified. It was an amusing enough thought to make him genuinely smile, a smile full of all the bloodthirstiness he normally kept hidden deep down: truly, if he had his choice in the matter, he’d love to see Nie Mingjue’s expression if he ever found out what Jin Guangyao was doing to him, ideally once it was too late for him to do anything about it or alert anyone to what was happening.

Maybe, if Jin Guangyao could arrange to be there to push him over the edge, he might even get to see it.

Maybe he’d even remind him of this little conversation, and ask if he found his own murder justified.

“All right, then,” Nie Mingjue finally said, exhaling slowly, and Jin Guangyao bit his lips to keep from laughing out loud. “I see what you mean, and…yes, I suppose you’re right, Xichen. I may not understand all the motives behind the murders, and I may not like the idea of just – trusting that he knows what he’s doing in killing them, but at the same time…”

He sighed.

“At the same time, I can’t disagree that if there’s one person I trust to have a good reason to kill someone in some deserted place for their undiscovered wrongdoings, it would be Wangji.”

Jin Guangyao’s smile faded away.

Lan Wangji?

What in the world were they talking about? How had Lan Wangji entered into it?

It wasn’t as if Lan Wangji were going around randomly killing people for, what, sport – killing them, and then justifying their deaths as having been deserved because they had supposedly done bad things –

A hand fell on Jin Guangyao’s shoulder, and he jumped a little, surprised: he hadn’t realized that anyone else was there with him in the deserted hallway or seen them come up behind him, much less close enough to touch.

He turned around: it was Lan Wangji himself, pale-faced and miserable the way he’d looked since the Massacre at the Nightless City, since he’d missed the Siege of the Burial Mounds on account of being confined – miserable, but upright, hale and hearty and righteous as always, his eyes bright with passion that verged on obsession.

He had his sword in his hand.

It was unsheathed.

“Wait,” Jin Guangyao said, taking a step back, his eyes going wide as he realized something. Surely he didn’t mean to – surely they hadn’t really meant – surely not – “Wait, Wangji, don’t..!”

[undertale-data]

[Image Description: An Undertale chat box that has “WHY FANS LOVE UNDERTALE” at its center. Next to it are a line chart and an Egg from the Dating Hub on its left, and a CRIME measurer (also from the Dating Hub) on its right. End I.D.]

[Image Description: a pie chart titled, “LEVEL OF LOVE FOR UNDERTALE.” The textbox on the top right reads, “On a scale of 1 to 10, 1 being the least and 10 being the highest, how much do fans enjoy Undertale?” From the top going clockwise, 12 or 0% chose 5 and below; 23 or 1% chose 6; 98, or 4%, chose 7; 325, or 12%, chose 8; 529, or 20%, chose 9; and 1664, or 63%, chose 10. End I.D.]

It’s clear from all of the data analyzed so far that fans who took the time to answer our survey love Undertale. It is unlikely that they would have taken the time to answer so many questions if they had not, and even less likely that they would have come across our survey in the first place. Naturally, it comes as no surprise that 63% of our responders gave their love for Undertale a score of ten out of ten. 95% gave their love for Undertale a score of eight or higher, and only 12 responders responded with five or below, a number so small that their responses had to be lumped together to be visible on the pie chart. Of those, only 3 responders gave their love for Undertale a score of 1, and based on those responders’ other answers, it is likely that they were only intending to troll. We are very fortunate that the vast majority of responders took the survey seriously, enough so that responses like this are barely a blip in the data.

Now, for our final analysis post of the event, we will delve into the reasons that fans love Undertale so dearly.

(Essay and highlights under the cut.)

There have been countless essays on the impact that Undertale has had on people’s lives. I can hardly add more on the subject than what has already been said, but I hope this summary can provide a brief overview of what stood out among the over two thousand answers given in response to this survey. That said, due to the sheer volume of answers, I could not read every single one in depth—however, I did skim all of them, and some that stood out or were representative of several responses have been highlighted below. If you would like to see what every fan who consented to share their response had to say, you may view the full list of responses here. Note that these responses have not been edited in any way. This document may take a long time to load, as it is over 100 pages long.

(Warnings for mentions of suicidal thoughts in the following essay.)

Several responders loved the theme of choices mattering in Undertale. Whether people played the pacifist, merciless, or neutral routes, they enjoyed how the game reacted to their actions. For some, it even made them consider their own morality. One touching response explained the impact that the theme of mercy made on them. “I realized that Mercy isn't something that's given to those who deserve it. Flowey didn't deserve it. I don't deserve it myself. Shoot, we ALL need Mercy in our lives.” Many fans left similar comments about how the themes of Undertale made them better people.

Undertale changed how its fans treat others, and it also changed how fans treat themselves. The theme of staying determined and the messages of hope in the game were a light to a very large portion of fans. I cannot list all of the fans who said that Undertale helped them out of a dark place, or that they would not be alive if not for Undertale. “DETERMINATION became a metaphor for not killing myself at a really rough time in my life and I’ll always cherish that. Undertale isn’t afraid to go to really dark places but at the same time holds on so tight to its hope.”

Undertale brought fans together in unexpected ways. Some said they met friends or significant others through the fandom. “I wouldn't have met my now husband without Undertale,” one fan said. A different fan who is non-native English speaking mentioned that the game and the fan community helped them to learn English.

It would be impossible to discuss Undertale without mentioning the fan community. Whether for good or bad, many responders mentioned the fandom in their responses. Overall the feelings towards the fandom seem positive, though many made references to “toxic” parts of the fandom without specifying which parts they consider toxic. Others rejected the idea of toxicity in fandom. One response said: “[SLAMS FIST ON DESK] I KNOW MOST PEOPLE SAY THE FANDOM IS TOXIC AND CRINGE OR WHATEVER BUT OH MY GOD. The Undertale fandom, both the UTMV and the actual UT fandom, has been so much fun to be a part of. I've met countless friends because of our shared interest in something related to the game! The art people create can be breathtaking and so inspirational, and the fanfics are so so good!! I've seen people write incredible things for this fandom and it's what made me continue writing!”

One thing that makes the Undertale fandom unique is the way it embraces various AUs. Some fans are tired of AU content, but the majority of responses show a love for the creativity behind AUs. “Roll your eyes at the 50th AU Sans all you want, it's encouraging people to step outside the boundaries of fanart and pushing people to make their own ideas! I mean, hell, it was how I gained the confidence to start making my own original content.” The lack of a judgemental atmosphere seems present in the AU community, according to the responses we saw. There is an interesting balance between AU and canon (sometimes referred to as “classic”) content that another responder pointed out: “The fandom helped keep the game alive all these years, with all of its AUs. Although personally, I always enjoyed AUs that kept characters as close to the classic material as possible (dancetale, outertale) I do appreciate the creativity of the fandom. They almost created entirely new stories with new characters of their own! If it weren't for those people, the Undertale fandom would have probably not been as active as it is now. I do feel like we're getting a resurgence of classic content now too! (In 2021)”

Regardless of the many AUs the fandom has created over the years, the original game of Undertale still feels like home for many fans. They wished they could reclaim the feeling of playing the game again for the first time, but even though we can’t reset time in real life, there is still a special feeling for fans each time they play Undertale. One fan said, “Even the best fics I've read can't capture that feeling of nostalgia/almost-"coming home" that comes with hearing the music and talking to the characters.” This feeling is one that can be cherished time and time again. In the words of another responder: “It always feels welcoming like home or like comfort food that I never grow tired of no matter how many times I go to it.” Others pointed out the strength of the found family trope in Undertale, which likely contributes to this feeling of “home” as well.

As mentioned briefly earlier, the music is part of what makes Undertale feel like home for fans. Even when responses focused on other aspects of the game, many would throw in a comment about the soundtrack at the end. One comment focused on the music said “IT'S SO GOOD like I will literally go through the entire thing over and over and not be bored with it. It makes my monkey brain so happy you have no idea.” Like with the game itself, the music has incredible replay value, an amazing feat considering most of the tracks use the same few motifs. “I think what I like the most about Undertale is how the music attaches you to the story,” another responder said. “They're simple melodies that stick with you throughout the whole game, and they can remind you of both good and bad times.”

If the music sticks with fans in their hearts, then the game’s lore sticks with fans in their minds. Even six years after the release of Undertale, fans are still creating new theories and digging up new secrets. The way the game breaks the fourth wall in particular intrigued many fans and has stuck out through all these years. The awareness that the game shows for the RPG genre makes it memorable. The game plays with the player’s expectations and turns them on their heads, all while reminding the player that they’re in a game. There are few other games that do this on such a large scale, so it’s no surprise that fans cite this as one of their favorite things about Undertale.

Lastly, the LGBT+ representation in Undertale has been a huge draw for fans. Especially in 2015, the sheer volume of non-cishet characters was unprecedented, as one fan pointed out: “It's practically unheard of to see so MANY from just one source, especially during its heyday in 2015-16. Hell, you can't even GET the true pacifist ending without helping two gay couples hook up. It's really nice to see all of them being accepted for who they are and not judged for their sexuality or gender, at least in-canon.” The LGBT+ cast including Frisk, Chara, Napstablook, Monster Kid, Mettaton, Alphys, and Undyne each connected with fans in unique ways. It’s clear how important this is from responses such as: “There are canon nonbinary characters 🥺. i have never seen representation of myself before.” “It made me gay and trans so thanks for that.”

Once again I am overwhelmed with just how much there is to say about Undertale. One responder really understood when they compared Undertale to an iceberg, explaining that there are so many layers to the game that there is something for everyone: “everyone can find something to enjoy in the lore/game regardless of what kind of fan they are! Being able to appeal to various types of fans—from simple happy shipper people to deep dive lorediggers—is the mark of the coolest games!” I would have to agree with them.

It’s been six years, and despite everything, it’s still you. Thank you for reading, participating in this survey, and above all, staying determined.

Highlights:

DETERMINATION became a metaphor for not killing myself at a really rough time in my life and I’ll always cherish that. Undertale isn’t afraid to go to really dark places but at the same time holds on so tight to its hope.

I think the coolest thing was having the opportunity to watch the AU community grow from its bare roots. It's nearly insane how big and complex it's gotten, unlike anything I'd ever seen before. Roll your eyes at the 50th AU Sans all you want, it's encouraging people to step outside the boundaries of fanart and pushing people to make their own ideas! I mean, hell, it was how I gained the confidence to start making my own original content.

i love how the lgbt rep is so naturalized... there are just gay people! and its nobodys business!

The music is my go to answer, but what I really really REALLY love is how the minor characters have so much personality to them when you talk to them. They aren't incredibly important to the overall story, but they're all so likeable and diverse that you just can't help but like them immediately!

I think it was the first videogame I have played that broke the fourth wall that much. Of course there has been other videogames that broke it but just for one or two tongue-in-cheek jokes. The guilt of killing mama goat was also something intense as well that I appreciated as an experience and that I didn't think a videogame could cause on someone.

I love how no character can be seen as completely bad! Everyone builds up Asgore as some horrible villain, but he turns out to be a 'fuzzy pushover' who's broken and just wants his family back by the time you meet him. Then you think Flowey's an irredeemable killer who engineered the suffering of the monsters across many timelines, and he is... but he also used to be the kind and beloved Prince Asriel Dreemurr, traumatized by his death and subsequent rebirth, projecting his best friend onto you.

The fact that choices matter in the game. Your first playthrough and getting the golden ending for the first time. I can never replicate those feelings again, wish I could erase my memories and replay the game from the start.

I wouldn't have met my now husband without Undertale.

(Toxic parts of the fandom aside) The community is possibly one of the kindest I've ever met. Cringe culture is completely dead, and I feel like I can be myself. I felt a very close connection to many of the characters, and I loved consuming content about them when I was in a rough patch in my life.

just everything, the whole game has just impacted my life so much. i know it sounds really lame, but when the game first came out, i would purposely put my hands in my pockets and sway slightly, like sans' idle animation. of course i dont do that anymore haha, but undertale still really impacts me to this day, and i wouldnt have it any other way :)

it made me gay and trans so thanks for that

I realized that Mercy isn't something that's given to those who deserve it. Flowey didn't deserve it. I don't deserve it myself. Shoot, we ALL need Mercy in our lives.

The thing I love most about Undertale is no matter how many times I play or watch a playthrough it always makes me genuinely happy. It always feels welcoming like home or like comfort food that I never grow tired of no matter how many times I go to it. Toriel still makes me feel all warm and cozy in her home, the Skelebros always make me laugh, and I still cry on the inside watching Frisk comforting Asriel. And on the flip side the No Mercy run still invokes the negative emotions in me as well. In short Undertale just feels like a second home to me and I always wish I could stay.

The reader inserts are my favorite way to decompress after a hard day

I think Undertale helped me discover my love for 8-bit games, and made me realize how IMPORTANT music is in video games.

the worldbuilding and character design are my favorite parts of the main game apart from the music! I’m also a huge fan of the random AU music- not for like underswap or underfell i like the stuff where someone makes a megalovania for a random au where gru from despicable me replaces sans as the character. i think its funny

Just... the vibe, honestly? Even the best fics I've read can't capture that feeling of nostalgia/almost-"coming home" that comes with hearing the music and talking to the characters.

there are canon nonbinary characters 🥺. i have never seen representation of myself before.

[SLAMS FIST ON DESK] I KNOW MOST PEOPLE SAY THE FANDOM IS TOXIC AND CRINGE OR WHATEVER BUT OH MY GOD. The Undertale fandom, both the UTMV and the actual UT fandom, has been so much fun to be a part of. I've met countless friends because of our shared interest in something related to the game! The art people create can be breathtaking and so inspirational, and the fanfics are so so good!! I've seen people write incredible things for this fandom and it's what made me continue writing!

There's a scene where Frisk (the player) is going towards what is presumably going to be their death. They will fight Asgore and he will use their human soul to break the barrier and free his people. The music, despite the player's impending doom, is... triumphant. You are not the triumphant one here, and yet, the score invites you to experience the monsters' joy and happiness as they tell you the tale of their subjugation. The monsters are going to be free. This is their victory, but they don't hate you or want you to die. They're just... happy. That scene has always struck me very deeply. I feel it represents the best parts of Undertale.

I loved how well thought out the Geno route was. It really made me feel like I was doing something horrible, and the characters were very obviously reacting to dire circumstances.

I dunno? I like Undertale for it's characters, story, music, secrets and many more. I am not good with Headcanons but I also like the neutral endings and how different they can depending on who you spare and kill

I was very bad at english before, i thought i couldn't progress because i was very shy and not confident. But my sibling and i wanted to have the best experience with this game so we wanted to play it in english. It's this game and the fandom which helped me to make huge progress in english !

THE SOUNDTRACK. IT'S SO GOOD like I will literally go through the entire thing over and over and not be bored with it. It makes my monkey brain so happy you have no idea.

to avoid writing an essay i will say one word. Mettaton

It is like Toby specifically made the games to fit the iceberg meme and it's awesome, everyone can find something to enjoy in the lore/game regardless of what kind of fan they are! Being able to appeal to various types of fans - from simple happy shipper people to deep dive lorediggers is the mark of the coolest games!

I love almost everything about Undertale as a game on its own. The music, the art and especially the characters and how they interact. They made me feel at home. Undertale means a huge amount to me. (I even got a tattoo of the castle when you and MK walk together!) The fandom helped keep the game alive all these years, with all of its AUs. Although personally, I always enjoyed AUs that kept characters as close to the classic material as possible (dancetale, outertale) I do appreciate the creativity of the fandom. They almost created entirely new stories with new characters of their own! If it weren't for those people, the Undertake fandom would have probably not been as active as it is now. I do feel like we're getting a resurgence of classic content now too! (In 2021)

the mystery. toby fox refused to give answers to anything and i think thats very sexy of him.

I just feel guilty for liking it so much when I'm in my 30's. But I recently got diagnosed with ASD, so I guess it explains things a bit. Many ppl consider Papyrus to be neurodivergent, and some adult fans are too, so seeing that makes me feel a bit better.

i think about "Despite everything, it's still you" everyday of my life.

I like how it's just as funny as it can be serious. All routes are this way. I laughed as much as I cried when I played the Pacifist route and then once I opened the game again and Flowey was telling me to let them be happy, I immediately turned off the game. I somehow felt bad.

The Found Family Trope

The True Pacifist Ending is just...man. And the fanworks about saving everyone even when the game doesn't let you? MANNNNNN

I think what I like the most about Undertale is how the music attaches you to the story. They're simple melodies that stick with you throughout the whole game, and they can remind you of both good and bad times.

there's honestly a LOT to love about this game, but i think one of my favorite things about it is just how many lgbt+ characters there are??? i can think of alphys, undyne, frisk, chara, mettaton, napstablook, monster kid, asgore, mad mew mew, the dress lion, the royal guards, and arguably even papyrus off of the top of my head, but im sure i'm forgetting a few from just undertale alone (there's even MORE in deltarune)!! it's practically unheard of to see so MANY from just one source, especially during its heyday in 2015-16. hell, you can't even GET the true pacifist ending without helping two gay couples hook up. it's really nice to see all of them being accepted for who they are and not judged for their sexuality or gender, at least in-canon.

[Image description: A wordcloud in the shape of the capitalized word UNDERTALE. The text is white on a black background, and uses the font found in the game. Some of the most visible words are: Game, Love, Music, Life, AU, Store, Friend, and Feel, which represent the most common words in the essays people wrote about their love for the game. End of ID]

[a-weird-writer]

I like how you sometimes write in a past tense, like the reader fucken died and then got brought back. which gives me an idea for a fanfic… a Uranus x reader where he looses the reader to whatever death but they come back to life and act like nothing happened and they start to slowly decay until they’re a puddle of zombie mass, and then reincarnate, then the cycle repeats like Groundhog Day.

Reminds me of "Life After Beth", which is a hilariously great movie by the way.

Something as completely ridiculous as this would just throw Uranus off his ass more than once,

you are human? Truly?

You are all he expects first but nothing he ever expects later, despite being so obviously human. You maintain little difference in normal Earth society, you walk hand in hand along the humans, a lower lifeform; fragile and condescending, human in every other way but this one.

Uranus has never been so stumped in all his countless centuries of touring and destroying galaxies. He has seen his fair share of shit, but you take it to another level entirely. He is very confused, slightly but still weirdly intrigued at your peculiarly unique "circumstances".

This goes against everything he has ever known about humans and the natural cycle of death in general. Humans are pathetic; they live and die than nothing. You spin that in a whole other direction and, he won't lie, is oddly tempted to learn more about your condition, as strange as it is. You're some kind of exception to how death's affairs work, to how humans normally function in their impending demise, which only pulls him deeper in an extremely confused spiral.

He kind of wants to witness your reincarnation process up close and personally. Mostly to answer his own questions with his own eyes and ears. Seeing is believing, purely in an educational manner of course; observe, experience and learn. He is keen and pays close attention to all details in his line of work. Ironically, he is a strange type of philosophical than what you'd normally predict. Fitting you suppose, given who and what Uranus is, he won't bother to hide his true intensity.

Fascinating honestly, how determined this alien is to pry in your life. Seems to stem right off his straightforward and rock-hard attitude, he hungers, an endless thirst for battle and conflict. An eagerness to conquer and destroy. To ruin his foes in ways they will never recover from. As his lordship says, "they were made to fight". He was the definition of a destroyer, and he effortlessly broke down all your walls with the sheer force of his will. Wrathful, a brute.

With his weight, he easily sways you with not even 10% of the full gravity of his mass, you fall prey to his gentle touches just as effortlessly. His short temper is a bomb waiting to explode but is endearing in its own strange way. There is personality hiding in the shadows of his intimidation. More than just a weapon, a dead-weight to crush his lord's foes under. He is also more philosophical than what you would ever give him credit for, his timeless memory and experiences far outreach yours, a reach beyond the stars themselves and further than that. You see quickly that he often likes sharing his travels with you, his heart is as big as he is, if not larger. As your one of the few that actually breathes in his physical direction you learn after.

He is feared. Understandably so.

With his curiosity and your...potential "provide", together it adds fuel to the fire.

You never want to add fuel to any "fire" any of the Stardroids light, regardless of the relationship.

This puts both of you in an interesting position, more so Uranus then you, there are a lot of things he considers doing with you. And that isn't something he dwells on often. Theoretically, while you currently die-if your decaying corpse is any indication of that-that certainly doesn't stop your brand-new awakening. You outlive you own current life, falling into the next one in the blink of an eye. You live running on a timer, but while common humans have merely one, your life has multiple. Limitless perhaps.

In this case, you do not have a life, not one nor two. You have lives. You respawn, fit as a fiddle to live out your next one, to then die once more and to yet again, return bright as ever. The flesh fresh, your breath healthy and lively. Like it never fell apart to begin with. So human.

Your cycle repeats. Again and again, your lives end but your time doesn't; not permanently, only temporality.

You prove more than what you originally appear, quite literally I might add. To think, someone like you living aimlessly, so at peace on this damned rock the lower lifeforms dare call a planet. It's a waste, there is much more out there then what even Uranus realizes. Your technically immortal and will outlive any and all pain you encounter. And I don't know about you, but that is intraileally intriguing to a lot of people. Weaklings are worthless, but you have merit.

Potential.

That may be too little for some, but for Uranus its absolutely perfect. That is all the convincing Uranus needs to create more serious conclusions about yourself. Consider more...

let's say 'possibilities'.

You could perhaps, be of use to his lord.

[bookwyrminspiration]

Regardless of one's personal feelings about Fitz and Dex, it's undeniable that, positive or negative, the two are frequent subjects of focus and discussion.

Both characters accompany Sophie's entry into the elven world, becoming key members of her inner circle and relevant to the trials she faces, drawn into her personal world. Both are discussed spectacles constantly in the public eye--Fitz for his legendary status as the golden child, a Vacker; and Dex as the ostracized son of a bad match, brother to triplets, potentially talentless. They cannot escape the assumptions made about them, can only ignore them. Both have particularly strong negative emotions associated with them--Dex with his jealousy, Fitz with his anger. Both are desperate to be good enough.

These similar traits, however, do not fully encompass them. Fitz is shown to be classic, traditional, seen as naturally good at nearly everything he does, the top of his level and beloved by his peers--his thinking cap is "nearly full" with "a long line of[...]girls" (268) still waiting to add more gifts. He subscribes more fully to elven ways than the others, as evidenced by his attachment to the matchmaking system and inability to think anyone would actually chose against it.

Dex, alternatively, is the embodiment of eccentricity. He doesn't believe in the elven system and, opposite of Fitz, is "still deciding if [he's] going to register [for the match]" (Lodestar, p. 172). He starts desperate to prove himself, falling for the flattery of the council in Everblaze when making the circlet, but learns his own worth and stops trying to prove himself. He enjoys playing pranks, though he isn't as infamous as Keefe, and has the skill set to alchemically make practically anything he likes. He's the person everyone goes to for technical solutions to their problems, though it can relegate him to the sidelines at times.

The two, even with their similarities, aren't fond of each other at first. Given the dramatic difference in their backgrounds and privileges, they are on opposite sides of their social world. From Fitz calling Dex "Deck" (p. 177) and Dex consistent outward distaste for Fitz--he "refused to have anything to do with Fitz and Biana" (p. 283)--there's a clear clash between them. However, this is flipped on it's head when Fitz nearly dies in Neverseen and Dex takes the blame onto himself. They'd had a tentative relationship prior, neither outright hostile, but the true turning point was his brush with death.

That tentative relationship can be credited in part to Sophie, who is the bridge between the two. Both friends with her, it's impossible to avoid the other, especially when things start to get serious. Both are close with Sophie, Dex harboring a strong crush that crashes while Fitz's develops more fully later in the series. But outside of the romantic prospects, they share a deep fondness for and appreciation of Sophie. For a portion of the series, she is the person both are closest with.

This has largely focused on the two individually, but a full understanding of their characters wouldn't be complete without understanding their families. The two characters are representative of those families. The Vackers are held in high regards, part of a long legacy of powerful elves who helped form the elven world as it is today, practically royalty. Their names are said with respect, with recognition, associated with tradition. The Dizznee's are outliers, a contrast to their "perfect" system they'd rather ignore; they're unabashedly and proudly unusual. They stand out more than any other family with the quirky architecture and contents of Slurps and Burps, and not always positively. How each family operates and functions within their larger society has informed how Fitz and Dex think and compose themselves.

While they may be presented as opposing characters at the beginning of the book, Fitz and Dex's characters have much in common. From their constant spotlights both in and out of the text to their importance in Sophie's lives, they're indispensable characters to the story as we know it.

Kotlc Curriculum: Question 8

Compare Fitz and Dex. How are they similar? How are they different? How do the two boys feel about each other? How does each of them feel about Sophie? Compare their families, too. Give evidence for your answers.

[mostly-mundane-atla]

Hi, I’m writing a fanfiction and from your posts on marriage it’s clear that Yue might actually have a lot of choices and agency for marriage specifically but I was wondering how much power does a wife have? I mean this in two ways, how much power does she have in the family and how much would a leader’s wife have in a community? Like, as wife of the chief (or daughter of the chief) would she ever make decisions for the community/lead or is it more an advisor thing or none of the above?

This is exactly my shit omg

So, a lot of people will say that among the Inuit, men dominate. This is not exactly true, and for the Inupiat specifically, it's been said that these preconceptions of men dominating or being seen as inherently superior or more valued are unfounded and based in misunderstandings and stereotypes. Men go out and bring food home to share with the village, but they understood that they would be foolish to think their wives had nothing to do with their success. Who was making their clothes and keeping them warm with mending so they could go out and bring home food? Who gave them a warm meal before? Whose forethought gave them peace of mind enough to sleep? Husbands and wives were interdependent and respected that. It's not a case of "yeah men are more valued, but women do the important work" but rather men and women both acknowledged that they each contributed things of equal importance. A wife wasn't obedient, she served her husband as her husband served her. The dynamic was built on trust and reciprocity.

There's also some stuff to be said about sexuality, because that's a big part in the perception of marriage and gender roles. The long periods of breastfeeding required to nourish children under the age of six years in such a harsh environment acted as a natural contraceptive. This gave women (and especially wives) a bit more wiggle room than there was to be found in cultures where contraceptives were tabooed. Sex wasn't something that had to be kept in a marriage. It wasn't something you were supposed to prioritize, but it wasn't something you had to save either. It was understood that most liked it because it felt good. There was no virginity requirement for marrying, and simply wanting or being curious about it was not considered morally wrong. Extramarital affairs were only looked down upon if there was dishonesty involved. Therefore, the whole concept of a husband's right to his wife? Not a thing among us. If any man wanted to sleep with any woman, she said yes or she said no and not always with words. (A lot of our communication is nonverbal, due to what could be described as a shy demeanor.) If she said no, maybe she'll change her mind, but a no for now is still a no, and the man in question was expected to respect that, and vice versa.

Men were often away tracking, hunting, whaling, doing what it took to bring the food in while women typically kept up the other duties. These were often outside the home in the warmer months, things like food prep and clothing and childcare, in social settings. The husband and father was given special consideration, as his work was more physically demanding, and the wife and mother would keep a store of food specifically for him that neither she nor the children they had would take from. In fact, the planning of food being stored, prepared, and distributed within the household was the wife/mother's responsibility. Such women, even those with arrogant or unthoughtful husbands, being smart with food can save entire villages from starvation. One story where this happens has the woman's husband fall to his knees and kiss her hands, full of both gratitude that she was among them and pride that someone like her chose to marry him.

This sort of power the women had over food manifested even in a young man's rite of passage. The first animal a boy ever successfully hunted was to be gifted to his mother or aunt. This first catch was typically something small like a bird or rabbit that the matriarch in question would make into a soup that could feed the whole family. And though it's true that men brought in the big game, women also provided through trapping, fishing, and bird hunting.

Due to men specializing in work that required long hours of attentive silence away from home, the more social aspects were handled by women. If you were arranged to be married to someone, it was more likely a discussion between your and your betrothed's mothers rather than fathers. This may have been why a young man who had never been married before needed to be deemed ready by his mother or other family member, while a young woman who had never been married before was trusted to know for herself.

So for the record: wives in general

-could have relationships with men who weren't their husbands

-didn't owe their husbands sex just because they were married

-had complete control over food distribution within the household, regardless of who brought it home

-were more involved with social things, like rites of passage and marriage arrangements.

Now when it comes to the Umialik, his wife (or "main wife" as it must be remembered: we were not a strictly monogamous people before the Christians showed up and decided they knew better than us) could lead in his name, but there's something that should be cleared up. The writers decided that it best suited the universe they created and the story they wanted to tell to treat the chief of the Northern Water Tribe as a monarch. This is not reflective of the way an Inupiaq Umialik was treated. While the image one might have based on Chief Arnook is one of higher quality clothes and a big beautiful house and delegating the grunt work to his subordinates, among the Inupiaq, leading the people meant putting more work into it. It was less about power and more about responsibility, and this responsibility was shared with his wife.

Among the Umialik's wife's responsibilities were sewing warm clothes for the whalers (she could recruit women of the village to help her), distributing food at a potlatch, and some important ceremonial roles to do with the whaling season. Like her husband, she was expected to remain chaste just before and during the whaling season. She was also expected to remain in the home while the whalers were away (a sort of pact with the whale, if that makes any sense), and when the whale was brought home, as with any other marine mammal catch, she was the one to pour water down its throat so it wouldn't die thirsty.

An Umialik likely did seek his wife's councel, but that would be true of any husband. Only an idiot would treat his wife like she has nothing of value to offer and a man ought to be humble enough to listen if he wants to marry. The Umialik was the man with the biggest family, likely because they would support his claim and it was hard to defy someone so connected to the village, but another reason could be that, with the largest family, he'd likely be exposed to the most states a person can find themself in, granting him more experience. As mentioned before, women were more in-tune with the social aspects than men usually were, so any wife but especially that of the Umialik would have an important perspective that her husband might not.

As for the Umialik's children in general, primogeniture was not the hard and fast rule among Inupiat as it wass with many cultures we're used to. An Umialik's daughter had no more rights than the average woman and his son had no more rights than the average man. They might find themselves on the receiving end of exceptional kindness to win their father's favor, but there was no guarantee either would inherit

[talkfantasytome]

'Twas Never Meant to Be - An Opinion

I have a lot of thoughts about this, and really need to get them out. So, let's talk about Elain and Azriel.

First off, I want to warn you, this post is a beast. Like, over 7.5k words beast. It just kept going. I'm sorry, but I didn't know what to take out and, honestly, I didn't want to spend a lot of time heavily editing it. Tread knowingly. I will not be offended if anyone chooses not to read it, or not to read it all.

Secondly, I want to say that this post is not meant to be a pro-Gwynriel or pro-Elucian post. Regardless of my personal ships, I want to explain why I, personally, do not believe Elain and Azriel would be right for each other. And these reasonings go far beyond "because I'd prefer them with someone else". In fact, these beliefs and feelings are first and foremost in my mind when considering all three of these ships, and any feelings I may or may not have on other ships are always second to my belief that they would not be right together. I will do my best to keep Gwyn and Lucien out of the comparison, unless using them as a way to point to something that would be wrong between Elain and Azriel - versus stating any reason why the other would be right.

The first two reasons I will share are ones I have been holding on to for quite a while, and have only become stronger with more content (Silver Flames). I have, personally, not seen much around these two thoughts, but recognize that they may be out there already, as there is no new thought under the sun. So, here goes:

Step Away From the Characters

Honestly, my first reason really has nothing to do with the characters themselves at all, but it's something I can't get out of my head. It's a personal thing, I know, as everyone might see it differently, but I can't help but feel like the three brothers ending up with the three sisters would be too perfect, too convenient.

I know that it's a shit argument when talking about an SJM book, and the more I read about the series, and the more books that come out within it, the more I recognize this. It makes me sad. But personally, I can't get behind this storyline, this ending that is so perfect it makes my skin crawl. It's not how life works, and it doesn't really make sense. If it were three adoptive sisters, as the bat boys are, it would actually make more sense, because it would stand to reason that you would have a two groups that mirror each other. That one girl who mirrored Rhys, let's say, then befriended to the point of sisterhood ones that mirrored the boys that Rhys befriended to the point of brotherhood. But Nesta, Elain, and Feyre are sisters by blood, not by choice, and so it isn't an automatic that they would be that reflection to the boys. And even though the boys lived together, and weren't fully brought together by choice as much as Mrs. Rhys's mother, they still chose to stay together and be brothers.

We have never, not fully, seen the Archerons make those same choices. These boys live together (or used to), work together, truly share their lives. The Archerons don't. The girls were disconnected before becoming Fae, and they are still disconnected after it. You see it more clearly with Nesta, of course, trying to stay away from the group, stay separate. But you see it with Feyre and Elain too. You see how Elain practically gives up on Nesta, and how Feyre discredits and dismisses Elain as anything more than just a kind soul who likes to garden. You can't, for two seconds, convince me that the Archerons have as similar or as bonded relationships to each other as the bat boys, and that alone tells us that we should not expect them to mirror the boys.

I would also like to note, looking back at the characters for a second, that it has been observed by others how Feyre and Nesta do seem to have similar energies a lot. On top of that, you could argue that Nesta mirrors all three bat boys in one way or another. It's one theory as to why she and Rhys struggle so much with each other, because they're too similar. And, you can't convince me that Az and Nesta don't share a bond because of their own similarities. Nesta's fire was cold as ice. Rhys once observed Azriels rage as an 'icy rage'. I don't think I need to mention how Nesta mirrors Cassian, but it's there too. So, the fact that she would be the sister who ended up with a mate from the Night Court, one of these three brothers, just made a lot of sense. But Elain, who is so different from her sisters, she doesn't have that same energy. It's not a bad thing, but it helps make sense why she would be the one with a mate from outside this Court.

Beyond this, however, I still struggle with the three and three come together concept. And that's coming from someone who actually has, within her family, a story of two brothers marrying two sisters - my great grandparents (or great great, I can never remember). So, I know stuff like this does happen, though admittedly my only experience is with two and two, and naturally I do believe that the likelihood of the full group being with the full other group goes down with each additional number. Regardless of that, though, it is an author's job to tell a story that we can connect to, and having such convenient and perfect endings makes it difficult to do just that. Because life isn't like that.

So I struggle with the concept of this. Like I said, the more I get to know these books, this series, the more I understand that this is not a great argument for why Elain and Azriel aren't endgame considering how other things have played out, but I still think it's a good argument for why they shouldn't be. However, I would also say that the argument that they will end up together because it's three brothers and three sisters is completely off base and illogical, for reasons I've mentioned above. What is the purpose of that? How does that drive the plot and the story and world? How does it connect us to them better? It doesn't. All it does is be just a convenient little bow that has no true purpose, unless there is true purpose as to why each sister ended up with each brother. And I don't really see a purpose as to why Elain would end up with Az except that they're both the last sibling, and that they currently like each other. But that doesn't mean they're right for each other, and I don't see how them being together will spur the story and the world forward the way Feyre and Rhys did, and the way Nesta and Cassian can and/or will.

As someone who dabbles in writing, I have thought about these types of things, and I'm always adjusting plans and thoughts when I realize I've gone into that too perfect la la land, and I'd like to believe that all writers do that. SJM has had some convenient endings, but I will say I've not yet felt like any ending was just too perfect. The closest was, of course, ACOWAR. But even then, you still had threads, misunderstandings, questions, and things you weren't happy about. Yes, the ending felt a bit perfect, but we still lost the Bone Carver, Mr. Archeron, the Suriel, etc. There were still things that made it less than completely perfect. And much of what was done in the ending did move this story forward, and provide the opening for what we are now getting. And, in the same vein, I like to think that SJM would recognize how this would be too much. But, I don't hold out a lot of hope on this reasoning alone, it's really just something I had to get off my chest.

Share Life With Me

This next point is huge for me, in my mind. Again, it is based off of my own personal opinions of some characters, as well, so I do understand that some people may not agree with this argument. That's fine, but you will not sway me.

It all comes down to one thing. What does Az want?

In the Az POV chapter we are finally told, out right, that he does want Elain. But, my question - does he really?

I have been thinking about this since long before Silver Flames, since we all knew Az had a crush, but it wasn't as cemented until Silver Flames came out, and we saw how Nesta and Cassian would develop as a couple. Because, and here's the kicker, I don't believe Az actually wants Elain.

Yes, you read that right. I know he thinks he wants Elain. I know he believes she's kind and beautiful. And I recognize that there was a sexual tension there - I'm not blind. But I don't believe that Elain is the end goal Azriel is actually looking for.

I believe that she is a representation of that end goal.

This mostly comes down to his conversation with Rhys, his belief about the Cauldron:

"The Cauldron chose three sisters. Tell me how it's possible that my two brothers are with two of those sisters, yet the third was given to another." He had never before dared speak the words aloud.

Okay, first - Az, please see point above. Also, I can't help but feel like SJM put that in here almost to show that this isn't actually a valid argument.

Second, let's dissect that argument for a moment. Now, perhaps Az is just trying to find what he considers a more 'objective' reason for why Elain should be his, why they should be together. However, if that were the case, then why would he have never dared speak those words aloud? Most likely because he knows it's not a solid argument, and logical Az knows this. But this is 2 AM, you just stopped me from kissing the girl I fancy Az, and he definitely is not being his most logical self.

It's also not a logical or good argument because of one simple word. Given. "…the third was given to another." Az, you're better than this. I truly want to believe you're better than this. I understand that the mating bond is weird, and inherently at least slightly sexist, but that doesn't give any male the right to really look at it that way. Especially when you consider the explanation that the mating bond will be present between two perfect equals. This is seen in ACOMAF when Feyre can't believe Rhys would be her mate, because that's what it would mean, that she's his equal. This also paints Elain as an object, which, no matter what anyone's feelings are toward the character, is not okay. She is a person. A fictional one, but still a person, she cannot be given unless she chooses to give herself. The Cauldron simply dictated who it believes is best for her, and vice versa. I'm not saying the Cauldron was right, or that she and Lucien would be good together, but that's what the mating bond is. To argue that the Cauldron was wrong because two brothers got two of the sisters, but the third was given to another is inherently wrong, because Elain cannot be given away.

It also shows that maybe Az really isn't truly seeing Elain for who she is, if he is thinking of it this way. I do believe that Az is a feminist, or, at least, more of a feminist than most of the males in Prythian (which, sadly, doesn't seem to be saying much). So I don't believe this is a comment based on a sexism in Az we haven't seen yet, I truly don't. I believe that it is a comment made by someone whose judgement is clouded, and who is, as I stated earlier, using Elain as a representation of what he's really looking for. He seems to idolize her, put her on a pedestal, believe that she is all light, all good. (Az, please see my previous post on that little nugget.) He objectifies her not because he truly believes she is an object, but because she has become a symbol in his mind - she is not the person Elain to him. She is the one he should have, the one who will bring him what he wants. Note I didn't say the one he wants. Whenever a person puts another on a pedestal the way Az has with Elain, whenever someone idolizes them, or believes that said person will fix all of their woes, they are subconsciously objectifying them. That being is no longer seen as a true person, with all the flaws and struggles and ugly parts. They are something else. And those types of feelings about another person never end in a good relationship, because at least one side is always expecting too much from the other, and they rarely learn to cope with what they didn't expect. And, for the record, you should never really be 'coping' with your partners flaws, but that's a conversation for another day.

Beyond being not a truly logical argument, and showing us how Azriel has actually objectified Elain in his mind, I also believe this statement gives us insight into what Az actually wants. He could have said a number of things to express a belief (or desire) that the Cauldron was wrong. He could have talked about his feelings for Elain. About how he thinks their personalities are too compatible for them to not be rightfully mates. Pretty much, he could have said something about Elain, and how they are right together because of who they are.

But he didn't.

Instead, Az brought up his two brothers and their mates. How they each got one, so surely the third should be his. And why did he do this? Again, maybe 2 AM Az who had lost his logic just thought this was an objective reason. But I think there's more to it than that. I think he brought up those other relationships as a way to point toward what it is he really wants. Because that's what's on his mind. It's not that Elain is perfect for him, that she is everything he could have ever hoped for in a female. It's that she is the sister of his brother's two mates, and he wants what his brothers have. So, clearly, that must mean that it's Elain who can give him that.

Again, Az, please read my first point. Because that's not a guarantee just because they're related.

Now, I imagine most people are saying, "Well, duh. We all know he wants what they have. He said so earlier on in the chapter." And he did:

Azriel couldn't stop it. The envy in his chest. Of Cassian, and Rhys.

So, it's not new. But, this argument he provided highlights that so specifically. He wants what his brothers have. Not a mate, per se. No. What they have.

But, wait, a mate is what they have. What are you saying?

Yes, a mate is what each of them have. But, as we know, not all mates are perfect for each other. Rhys and Feyre, and Cassian and Nesta are both examples of how right the mating bond can be. But, let's instead look at what they both have, in points, instead of just saying they have a mate. Here are, from my interpretation, the main common aspects of these two relationships:

Love. Sure, Nesta and Cassian hadn't said it yet. But, yes, they love each other, they're just both stubborn and scared and maybe not ready to say it.

Heavy sexual attraction and chemistry. This may not always be the most important piece of a relationship, but it's blatant in both of theirs, and it's clear that Az wants that as well. Which is fair.

Friendship. It's hard to see it at times, because these books are so much about the romance, but I do believe that both couples are truly friends who like to spend time together. Who can have fun together. We don't get to see this enough - and I do wish we saw more of it - but it is there. It's there when Cassian throws his head back laughing at something Nesta said. Or when Rhys is thrilled when sassy Feyre appears. And yes, it is in part the mating bond, making them want to be near each other, but they still enjoy that time together. Mates who aren't right for each other wouldn't.

True partners. In these two relationships, they are more than just each other's mate, lover, friend. They are and/or are becoming partners. In their relationships, Rhys and Cass have found a female who they can share their lives with. Completely and fully. In Feyre, Rhys has found a High Lady, a female who is his true equal, who can rule the Court with him. They work together, plan together. And Rhys can come home at night and tell her everything about his day. In Nesta, Cass has found someone who, I believe, will grow to command with him. Likely female units, but she is still mirroring Cass in that way. She may not become his true equal in terms of being Commander of the Night Court, but she would still be his partner. He will still be able to strategize with her, the two working together to determine where each unit will go. He will command the Illyrians, and by his side she will command the Valkyries. And he can come home, at the end of the day, and tell her everything about his day.

It's this last piece that I want to really dig into, because that is what separates Rhys and Cassian's relationships from others we have seen, in my opinion, and thus that is what Az wants. It's not just a mate, he wants what his brothers have, a true partner who he can fully share his life with. Because that is what makes their relationships so special.

And, in the end, I do not believe Elain can be that for him.

I am not trying to discredit Elain, or say that she is simple, or that she can't do anything but garden and be a housewife. No. That is not my point. I do think, however, that what it would entail to be a true partner to Az is something she does not want to do. And that is okay! It is okay for her to want to garden and bake. It's okay to not wish to be involved in all of the plotting and planning and little missions and quests that the Inner Circle does. It's okay to not want to train. To be happy as you are.

But she can't do both. She can't be a true partner to Azriel and remain as she is. Now, perhaps she does want more, and I have misread her. It's possible, I am not infallible. However, she hasn't ever truly shown us anything that tells me otherwise. And, no, I don't believe her offering to find the Dread Trove in Silver Flames counts as I don't believe she offered to do so out of the goodness of her heart or because she wanted to do it. I believe she wanted to prove Nesta wrong. (Again, you can see this in my previous post.) So, to be a true partner to Azriel, she may have to change everything that she is. And that's not fair to her.

And, even if I am way off on a lot of this. Even if she does want to do more for the Night Court. There is one thing that we have learned about Elain:

She does not wish to fight, she does not wish to train.

I'm sorry, you can't convince me otherwise. Not when she has had ample opportunity to do so in the year, year and a half since Hybern, and still hasn't. It was different with Nesta, who was dealing with a lot of other things, but Elain has been, for the most part, fairly healthy. Her not training is her choice because of who she is.

Again, this is okay! I am not insulting Elain for this, not at all. I get it. I don't particularly love working out - the main exercise I get is from rock climbing twice a week, that's it. So I get it. However, you cannot work with Azriel and not be trained, not know how to fight. Even if Elain could be silent, or infiltrate courts easily, and learn secrets, you need those skills, even if it's just a fallback to ensure you can escape should something go wrong. But it also helps to understand these types of things, to understand battle and politics and everything else. It's not about whether she can do this, it's about whether she wants to do this, and I'm not sure she does. So she would either have to change who she is, and be unhappy to become Az's partner, or she wouldn't be able to be that. And, admittedly, if she were unhappy, he still wouldn't have what his brothers have.

However, on top of that, I also don't know if Azriel would let Elain be his true partner. Think about when they're at dinner, talking about how Nesta needs to scry, and how they'll have to rely on Elain if she doesn't - what Azriel says.

“There is an innate darkness to the Dread Trove that Elain should not be exposed to.”

Sidebar - I've not seen anyone talk about how Cassian was absolutely in the right for defending Nesta. So I did. You can see my soap box here.

Now, back to the point. This is one example of how Az is constantly trying to protect Elain from, well, kinda everything. So, even if Elain did want to do all of those things, would Az even be okay with it? He obviously can't stop her from training or anything like that - and if he tries should she ever want to, he's dead to me. But, would he really share his life with her? Tell her about those 'unspeakable things that sullied his hands far beyond their scars'? I don't believe he would. I don't believe he could truly handle her working with him because, again, he has put her on this pedestal of beauty and grace and goodness (that she may not have). And the things he does are not good, at least not by his standards. He wouldn't be able to truly include her until he started to look at her as her own person again, which I also don't see happening. And, even then, he still wouldn't want to share with her all he'd done, believing her likely to judge those things, to be too pure to even hear about them. Regardless of whether that is true or not about Elain, it would hinder him from being able to have a true partner in her. When Azriel comes home at night, he would not tell her everything about his day.

Love Yourself, Az

This, I know for a fact, is not a new revelation. I have seen a lot about this, and have seen some posts that even helped me along with this as well, but I can't not address Az's shadows. I would link to the first post I saw about this but, admittedly, I can't find it. So, just know, I'm not the only one thinking this, and I recognize that some of this may come off as similar to others, but I couldn't not talk about this because it just feels so important.

Elain sucked in a soft breath that whispered over his skin. His shadows skittered back at the sound. They'd always been prone to vanish when she was around.

It wasn't until the Azriel POV chapter that I fully understood what lay behind the fact that Az's shadows would retreat around Elain, when we get a direct comparison to how they react to Gwyn's breath:

"How was the party?" Her breath curled in front of her mouth, and one of his shadows darted out to dance with it before twirling back to him. Like it heard some silent music.

Before this, I didn't realize how bad a sign it is, for his shadows to retreat. I just thought they did that when he was around someone he was attracted to, almost as a sense that the other person lightened him up. But, with this comparison, and in general what we see from Az when around Elain, I see just how wrong I was. His shadows hiding isn't a sign of him lightening up - no, it's a sign of him retreating more into himself, trying to be something that he isn't around that person, in the hopes that they'll accept him if he is.

In the end, it's toxic.

He can't be who he truly is around Elain. That's not something that will lead to a healthy, happy relationship. He may have the girl he thinks he wants, but he won't have the relationship we all know he is desperate for. Whereas, around Gwyn, we see his shadows reach out to another person, jump out, dance with her breath, sing to her. He is able to fully embrace who he is around her. He will be able to be himself with her, love himself with her. And whether or not Gwyn is the right person to him, what this tells us is that Elain can't be that person. That she, like Mor, would be toxic to Az.

On top of that, I can't not point out the word usage here.

While I did observe this on my own, I am not the first to point it out - pagesofmoonlight talks about this in detail, about the usage of the term 'skittered' in regards to how the shadows retreat from Elain. It's not just a general hiding, or even a 'lightening' of Az, as I once thought. It's a gut reaction to her, her breath. They run from her. When I read that word, I literally picture a wave of something, and the shadows seeing it and running from it in fear.

Similarly, in comparison, with Gwyn's breath, the shadows 'darted' out to it. That, also, is not just a general they reached out to it for warmth or contact. Now, they darted - that is a very quick move, often done with a need or desire to get to where you're going as quickly as possible. The shadows needed or wanted to be with that breath, so they darted to it.

Like I said, this post isn't meant to be promoting one ship over Elain and Azriel. But what Gwyn provides here is a comparison, is a sign of what could and should be, whether with her or another person. Even if she isn't endgame, she shows us this problem between Elain and Azriel.

Home is Where You Shine

This entire post, which has become MASSIVE, has been very focused on Azriel, and why Elain is not right for him. But I want to touch on a reason why Az isn't right for Elain.

Azriel is a part of the Night Court. It is his home. It is where he belongs. He fits here, it is right for him. He can and does fine here. I don't think anyone can deny this. But Elain - she does not.

First, let's look at when Nesta is in the Spring Court.

Nesta’s throat constricted, and she surveyed the swaying cherry blossoms overhead. Elain would love this place. So many flowers, all in bloom, so much green—the light, vibrant green of new grass—so many birds singing and such warm, buttery sunshine. Nesta felt like a storm cloud standing amid it all. But Elain … The Spring Court had been made for someone like her.

I'm not saying Elain will end up in the Spring Court, but I do believe it is telling that Nesta would think about another court this way. We've not, to my recollection, really ever seen another character think about how well someone would fit in a different court. Feyre did, if I remember correctly, mention enjoying other courts at times, thinking they were beautiful, but never did she think about how right someone within her court would be in a different court. Because no one else in the Inner Circle would fit so well in another court. For whatever reason it is, everyone else is perfectly suited for the Night Court, and they can handle it.

It takes a lot to be a part of the Night Court. The masks they all wear, the reputation they have, the responsibilities that fall on their shoulders. It's not an insult or an attack on any character to say that they may not fit there, that they may be more in tune with the beauty of Spring, the warmth of Summer, the light of Day. And Elain, who is gentle and kind and not one to pretend to be what she isn't - likely because she's never felt the need to - I can understand how it would be hard.

Secondly, and I know it's a point of contention, and a well-discussed piece of Silver Flames, but I do want to talk about the Solstice Ball, and Cassian's observations.

Elain in black was ridiculous. Yes, she was beautiful, but the color of her long-sleeved, modest gown leeched the brightness from her face. It wore her, rather than the other way around. And he knew the cruelty of the Hewn City troubled her. But she hadn’t hesitated to come. When Feyre had offered to let her remain home, Elain had squared her shoulders and declared that she was a part of this court—and would do whatever was needed. So Elain had let her golden-brown hair down tonight, and pinned it back with twin combs of pearl. He’d never once in the two years he’d known her found Elain to be plain, but wearing black, no matter how much she claimed to be part of this court … It sucked the life from her.

I will try not to go too far into the information about Elain in the black dress, as it's been discussed a lot from both sides, though I do think it is telling, because Cassian isn't just saying it's the one dress. It's very specific about how Elainin black was ridiculous, not that dress. It may seem shallow, but in the end, black is a crucial color in the Night Court, and that type of symbolism is often used to depict things just like this. It would not be the first time, and it certainly won't be the last that a writer uses color this way. However, I have seen a number of posts about this, on both sides, and I do understand both arguments, even if I disagree with one because I don't think it's meant to just be a skewed POV.

I would like to note, however, that the main argument I've seen is that there was once another time Elain was described in a dress that did little to complement her, but it's a very different description. That other time, it's mentioned specifically that the dress and color/shade of the dress did little to complement her 'sallow skin'. First of all, this is specifically discussing how the color didn't work with her skin, not how the color 'drained the life out of her'. Secondly, I would say it is very important to note that 'sallow' means "of a sickly, yellowish or lightish brown color". It is not discussing her skin as it typically is, but how it is when she was in the midst of her own depression after becoming High Fae. It's not that the dress didn't complement her, it's just that it didn't help make her skin look better than the sickly state it was currently in. Whereas, in this reflection, Elain is healthy, and still the black is draining her. Not the dress, not the shade - black. Point blank.

It's also important to recognize that this isn't meant to insult Elain, I believe it is a symbol of how she doesn't shine in the Night Court, how this court could potentially 'suck the life out of her'. Yes, it's just a dress. Yes, there's a chance they wanted her to look plain, but I don't believe that.

They were always going to have Nesta dance with Eris, and they all knew that, despite Elain's beauty, and no matter how lovely she looked, Eris would gravitate to Nesta. He'd already shown interest in her, he'd already become intrigued. He looked at Elain first, I believe, to get a look at his brother's mate. Because he wasn't looking at Elain with interest. No, it was an 'assessing gaze'. There was no reason to make Elain look plain. In fact, there was every reason to make sure she looked just as beautiful as Nesta. Think about what Cassian said just before this:

Both sisters wore black. Both walked behind Rhys and Feyre, a silent indicator that they were a part of the royal family. Had mighty powers of their own. They’d planned it that way, wanting Eris to see for himself how valuable Nesta was.

Why would they want her to look plain, considering this? They wanted Nesta and Elain to walk in the procession behind Feyre and Rhys, as a sign, a symbol. Yes, they wanted Eris to see and understand how valuable Nesta was, as it is said, but they didn't want Elain to look any less valuable. First, doing so would have made Nesta look less valuable by comparison. But, on top of that, I highly doubt they had any fears that Eris would prefer Elain - if they believed Eris about Lucien, then I think they'd believe that Eris wouldn't wish to take away his brother's mate. In fact, I imagine Eris would more likely help Lucien with Elain - but, that just be my Eris stan status coming out.

What is clear is that it was purposeful that they put both Nesta and Elain in black, as a symbol that they are a part of this family. My guess is that they found a dress for Elain that did her the most justice, and that she was comfortable wearing but, in the end, black just doesn't work on her. And is that fact not telling when that is the color of the family?

While this was in draft mode, I also found this post from yazthebookish, who goes deeper into this, and how it wasn't just Cassian who observed how ridiculous Nesta looked in black. So, for those who want to talk about how it is a skewed perspective, there were actually three that made this observation, and I absolutely agree that SJM wouldn't shove this in there solely to say that they purposefully tried to make sure Nesta outshone Elain. As they pointed out, Nesta is gorgeous in her own right. Cassian met her and Elain together, and he was instantly drawn to Nesta. As I mentioned earlier, Eris has been intrigued by her since long before this - see the High Lords meeting in ACOWAR. Helion would gladly get into her leathers, and while I'm aware that's not saying much, his focus on her is slightly higher than you see it on others he would also slide into bed with. She doesn't need Elain to dull herself down to shine.

I also think the one observation about how the black 'wore her' matters. It makes me wonder more about this court, both the general Night Court, and the people in the Inner Circle. Is the court wearing her? Is it sucking the life out of her? Is this why we don't see as much spine from Elain? We got some in this book, but it was all in an attempt to prove she belongs to this court. Something she feels the need to do, as we see in Cassian's reflection:

When Feyre had offered to let her remain home, Elain had squared her shoulders and declared that she was a part of this court—and would do whatever was needed.

…but wearing black, no matter how much she claimed to be part of this court … It sucked the life from her.

First of all, just quickly, I want to mention the ellipses before it says 'it sucked the life from her', and what came right before that. Is Cassian talking about the black? Or is he talking about being a part of this court? I don't have the answer, just food for thought.

I can't help but notice that Elain seems to feel the need to constantly prove, declare, and claim that she is part of this court. She has to push her way through, and while I know it's in part because so many people try to protect her, I think it's more than that. I believe Elain wants to be a part of the Night Court, but in the end it's not suited to her, and so she has to force her way in, when even Nesta, who everyone has been so displeased with, manages to fall in much easier. It's not because they don't like Elain, that's obvious. I believe it's because, in the end, they all see it.

It reminds me a lot of Tywin Lannister's quote from GoT (TV series, I won't read the books until George RR Martin finishes them):

Any man who must say, "I am the King", is no true king.

Could you not adjust this to: "Any person who must say, 'I am part of this court', is not truly part of this court."

I don't think Nesta has once said that. Feyre, maybe, but not in the same way as much as in letting certain people outside the court know. But, to have to say that within the court - it signifies that either you, yourself, don't believe yourself part of the court, or that maybe you aren't truly. Or that you are, but you recognize that maybe it's not the right fit, even if you really want it to be.

In the end, while I don't think Elain can't fit or find a nice life in the Night Court, the final point is that she doesn't shine in the Night Court. And that's not the same as saying she fully doesn't belong. But, shouldn't home be a place where you shine? Where you can be everything you are, and it is absolutely right? Isn't that what Nesta found in Silver Flames, in the House, with Cassian, and Gwyn, and Emerie,…and the House? She didn't have to be anything other than who she was, with any of them, and she still found a place that not only provided her comfort, but where she could truly shine. And she's found it in the Night Court, as well.

Elain hasn't. And maybe that's just because we haven't seen her story play out yet. I'm not so stuck up to believe there's no way I could be wrong. In fact, what bugs me the most about a lot of posts around these different beliefs is the use of 'when' instead of 'if', because no one wants to admit that, at this point in time, no matter what side you're on, it very much is an 'if'. None of us know what SJM has planned. All we can do is use the information we've been given to make as educated a guess as possible. This is mine, and SJM may prove me completely wrong, and that's okay. She may end up giving Elain a more similar arc to Nesta, and show how she develops and grows into someone who flourishes in the Night Court with Az by her side, and should she do that, I hope it's in a way I can understand and not something poorly developed and difficult to grasp.

A Mate is A Mate is A Mate

I won't talk too much about how she and Azriel aren't mates and how that automatically means they couldn't work. It could, in concept. I won't address the theories about her ending up with multiple mates. I do not agree with these theories, as they conflict with the canon we have. Until SJM puts out canon information that can explain a contradiction to what we've been given, any theory that truly contradicts the canon provided I will not consider, whether I like it or not. Multiple mates is not a thing. Being able to sever the mating bond so that someone can have a new mate is not a thing. I do recognize that females can reject the mating bond, and I am not saying whether or not I think Elain should or shouldn't do this with Lucien. Nor am I saying that having a story where someone does reject the mating bond to see how that plays out wouldn't be great.

I will point out, however, that it is often discussed as a thing females do. Females reject the mating bond. Males who have a female that rejected the mating bond grow incredibly uncomfortable, and they truly struggle.

...there will always be a ... tug. For the females, it is usually easier to ignore, but the males ... It can drive them mad.

I'm not going to include all the stuff about males thinking their mate belongs to them. Grow up, Prythian. Get with the program. But, considering this, considering the other pieces we get, I do not know if a male can be with another person, truly, in a loving relationship if he has a mate. Maybe one day, years and years and years after the rejection. Or maybe, if his mate doesn't fit his preferences - if that is a thing (and honestly, we don't yet know the status of same-sex mates, but if they are a thing - please let them be - then I have a harder time believing that those who have specific preferences would end up in a mating pair with the wrong gender).

I am not saying this to say that Elain and Lucien should be together. I am saying this because, considering all these things, right now, canon information essentially tells us that, should Az find his mate, he will go to her, need to be around her. Think about Cassian when Feyre asked why he bothers with Nesta:

Because I can't stay away.

Think about how Lucien couldn't help but try to find Elain, despite direct orders of being told not to. Or about how the second Rhys heard Feyre say 'no' in her mind to Tamlin, he was there to take her away. They just can't help it. The mating bond has a stronger pull on males.

And, maybe Az would be able to deny the bond. To reject it himself, who knows. But, based on everything we've been told, that would be incredibly difficult. And, considering how much he wants what his brothers have, would he want to?

Obviously, there is reason to believe Az does have a mate, and we've met her. And I know some people disagree with this. I would be interested to hear any theories about why he and Gwyn aren't mates, so long as they don't involve Elain. It's not that I have anything against her, it's just that those arguments don't actually point to Gwyn and Az not being mates, just that the person believes Elain and Az belong together regardless, which is not an argument for why they're not mates. But if there are any reasons or signs found in the books and canon information that distinctly point against Gwyn and Az being mates, then I'm open to hearing those points. And, as I mentioned, I do not entertain any canon-conflicting theories, such as the multiple mates one.

As it stands, though, I do think we have been directed toward the idea that Gwyn and Az are mates, and can believe that the mating bond will snap into place. Once it does, I have a hard time believing Az will actually be able to stay away. And that, even if Gwyn ends up rejecting that bond, I don't know that he'll be able to be with Elain after it, knowing Elain isn't his first choice.

Final Thoughts

Like I said earlier, I'm not against Elain rejecting the mating bond, or anyone doing so. I will say this, though - how much more powerful would it be to have someone reject the mating bond not because they wish to be with someone else, but just because they do not wish to be with that person? Is it not more empowering to see a female (or male, if they can do it) choose to be single, and live their life as they are solely because they just do not wish to be with that person? Instead of it being more of an, 'well, it's just, I'd rather be with him'. Sadly, I do not think Elain is set up to be that person. Gwyn could, potentially, be, though I'll admit I don't believe it, considering the attention Gwyn pays to him. But I do think it's worth noting that, in my opinion, the mating bond can be rejected even if there is not another male in the picture.

However, despite all the questions and uncertainties, until we get answers, this is my personal view, based on what I've seen in the books, and how I've interpreted it. I personally feel that, regardless of who I hope ends up with whom, SJM has placed a number of clues and hints to show that Elain and Azriel aren't meant to be together, that they wouldn't be right together. And that, if they were to be together, the relationship would likely be unhealthy, and potentially toxic.

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This post is also not meant to insult or attack Elain in any way, nor Azriel. Nor am I trying to insult or attack those who ship them together. We are all welcome to our own opinions. I promise to respect yours, please respect mine.

[naomana]

"shut up and kiss me already!" + joe and vito please ❤️

Vito/Joe my beloved ♥

It’s a bit longed than I expected and I kinda passed out writing it lmao

It was already dark and most people were at their homes, getting ready for another night in their lives.

Vito just sneaked out of his family apartment, which took him longer than he expected, and rushed downstairs to meet up with impatient Joe, who's been waiting for him the past 30 minutes.

"Finally. Took your sweet time." He rolled his eyes and passed him the freshly lit up cigarette he only just started and Vito happily took on the offer, pressing his lips on the same spot as Joe moments ago.

"You know my ma. Wouldn't let me go so I had to wait for her to fall asleep. Says you have bad influence on me." Vito chuckled, giving him back his cigarette and Joe acted offended, before waving his hand around.

"She'd be disappointed to know half the stupid ideas are yours. That's beside the point, you are late. I'm tellin' ya, if we don't get smacked for this.."

"Hey, calm down, will ya? It will be fine. Now let's go before we're even later."

Vito patted his shoulder blade and set off on foot, Joe quickly catched up to him and wrapped his hand around his shoulder as if it was the most natural thing in the world. "So you warmed up to the idea?"

"Will you stop already? I agreed, didn't I? Who cares if I actually want to be there."

Joe stopped for a moment and just stared at his friends back, before Vito realised and stopped, turning around to see what was going on. "What?"

"Nothin'. Just.. There's going rumours 'round the neighbourhood and this.. Just.. Confirms it, I guess?"

"Rumours? What rumours?" Vito asked as if he never heard, but he did. And he was really trying to keep his head above the surface, but it was more and more difficult with each passing day because maybe.. just maybe.. there was some truth to it.

"You know. You've not been really into the neighbourhood girls." Joe tried softly.

"Maybe I want something more from the life then the neighbourhood floozies. Why do you care?" Vito snapped and turned around again so he could continue on his way.

"I don't." Joe hooted after him and Vito stopped again, this time not even bothering to turn around.

"I don't care if it's true or not." Joe shrugged his shoulders because regardless of Vito's preferences, nothing changed in his eyes and Vito was still the same Vito to him.

"Of course you care. The whole fucking neighbourhood cares, apparently." Vito rubbed the bridge of his nose and felt soft touch on his shoulder. "Fuck the neighbourhood. Fuck what Terry and others think."

Vito dropped his shoulders, pride still not allowing him to say anything out loud but he didn't have to because Joe was, as always, quick to lighten the mood. "So I can tell Sally to go scramble, eh? Anybody you're interested then? Please tell me it's not fucking Terry."

"Christ.. It's not Terry." Vito mumbled with soft chuckle and given into the touch.

The clouds lazily moved aside, uncovering the full moon illuminating the whole street. Empty street with nobody around.

Joe kept his eyes on Vito's face, glistering in the moon shine with the pretty pink tint he got whenever he was put into a difficult spot. "You look pretty." He mumbled and forced the cigarette between his pink lips.

Vito turned his head, watching his friend. “What?” Did he heard right? Was he just imagining things? “Ah, nevermind.” Joe brushed it off but kept his hands on Vito, as if he had them glued and couldn’t move them.

"You know him, though." He tried with noncommittal comment after moment of awkward silence. Joe chuckled.

"I know a lot of guys 'round here. Better not be nobody from the Irish gang."

"You can be so stupid sometimes." Was he supposed to tell him? But the fear of breaking what they already had was so strong, perhaps stronger than their friendship.

"Yeah? Same pal. Sometimes I doubt you have any brains up there." Joe smacked back with another chuckle and Vito’s eyes travelled across his face iluminated with silver shine, giving him breath taking view. Just shut up and kiss me already, dumbass.

He wanted to say it so badly. Scream it into his face but he was coward and just wriggled out of his grip. “We should probably go.” Just as that, he set of again without looking back and Joe followed him.

“I gotta say I’m pretty jelous of this mysterious guy of yours. He better treat you right.” Joe rumbled in all seriousness and Vito broke into hysterical laugh. “He’s a total dumbass, but got a big heart.”

For a moment, Joe disappeared into his thoughts, trying to figure out who was Vito talking about. He tried different names but never got clear answer and little by little he managed to get some details from his friend. ‘He’s handsome and funny. Really slow sometimes, real smart other times.’

“This is annoying. I’d probably like the guy.” Joe huffed in frustration because the whole time they walked to their double date, he couldn’t get the answer out of his friend. Vito just chuckled and shrugged his shoulders. Joe wasn’t one self-centred prick but surely he liked himself to some extent. “Yeah, you would.”

He was gonna tell him, eventually. But that night wasn’t the time for it. He had plenty of time, not like Joe was ready to tie the knot with anybody yet. He had time.

[puck-the-devil]

The impostor angel, who had happened to have worn that particular form with that stony countenance and professional, businesslike demeanor for many years, was likely more accustomed to concealing his true emotions than either of the entities before him. Even so, his jaw clenched and he clasped his hands tight behind his back as he watched the reunion of sorts take place from the sidelines.

Aziraphale's initial reaction to hearing Crowley's name following his title was...unexpected by Raziel to say the least. The tone with which the Archangel had repeated it was even worse. Raziel concluded that they must have parted on worse terms than he'd realized. And when Aziraphale seemed about to dismiss them in favor of attending to something else, Crowley's escort seriously began to wonder if the pair would actually require more than just a simple discussion to rectify the lack of communication and allow them to make up.

Then, however, the Supreme Archangel seemed to have a change of heart for reasons that were not apparent to Raziel because he conceded to sparing some time for them. This would have been considered fortunate had the false angel not gotten the impression that Aziraphale suspected something when he mentioned the Prince of Hell's escort.

At first he contemplated the option of trying to weasel his way out of joining them. It was very obvious to him that the Archangel and Prince needed to have an extensive conversation with one another detailing truths that he doubted would be easy for them to admit on their own, much less with an outsider around. If he tried to get out of it now, though, he was more likely to raise whatever suspicions Aziraphale might have already harbored even further, especially as an unfamiliar angel defying their superior.

But aside from believing the two best friends needed to speak to each other privately to patch things up between them, Raizel realized too late what it could mean for Crowley and by extention Aziraphale if his own true identity was discovered.

Aziraphale hadn't seemed to really trust him upon his first encounter with him as Puck - he had made certain of that - and so if he discovered the faery's identity then, he could have had any number of reasons to believe Crowley and Puck had been conspiring against him somehow behind his back and had come up to Heaven to enact a plot against him. That misunderstanding in itself would have been bad enough and set the two friends back even further with their misgivings about each other, but that wasn't the worst thing that could have happened.

If word got out that Aziraphale had met with Crowley, that alone might have been tentatively accepted given the nature of their new statuses. Throw in a fake angel, however, and all of Heaven could easily have been convinced that the couple who had put a stop to the previous Armageddon were now colluding to bring about the downfall of another.

Aziraphale could have ended up punished; Crowley tortured. Just like the faery had feared. And while Puck had told Crowley and originally been confident that he'd have been prepared for any scenario, he'd been blindsided by one very simple fact: for a very long time now, he had only been used to looking out for himself. That was why it hadn't been until that moment that he understood the true magnitude of the danger that his presence there put the angel and demon in - all because he had decided on a spontaneous whim to try to help them.

Ice blue eyes flickered to Crowley behind round glasses. Did Crowley know? Was that why he had tried to avoid giving him too much information? Maybe he had sensed the danger in involving Puck, but perhaps not the full threat it could have posed or else he might have tried harder to stop the faery from taking part. But maybe...though he honestly doubted it...despite the fact that Crowley knew Puck's involvement was hazardous to them all, regardless of how much or little he guessed it would be, he had trusted him enough not to mess things up to allow him to help anyway.

Raizel shook his head minutely. Whatever the case, the reason behind Crowley's choice didn't matter right then. What mattered most was not blowing his cover. He could do that. He just had to focus. And not let the pressure of the two individuals' fates weigh on him.

Supreme Archangel Aziraphale's question regarding looks alarmed him at first, but when the angel imposter looked up in an attempt to determine who he had been talking to, the Archangel was facing away. He deduced it must have been Crowley the inquiry had been directed toward. After all, between the two of them, Crowley was the more recognizable as someone whose appearance had been deliberately changed since Aziraphale had last seen them.

Doing his best to maintain, at the very least, his outward composure, Raziel cast another serious glance Crowley's way before beginning to follow after the Supreme Archangel.

@ourcwnside

((From here))

Raziel's glasses glinted as he turned his head to watch Crowley remove his own. A small crease formed between the false angel's brows when the demon's nails and teeth sharpened, followed by the appearance of snake scales and the enlargement of yellow irises. The most significant alteration in Raziel's opinion, however, was that of the demon's expression. It took him a moment to realize why Crowley made the changes. "So dramatic," he muttered under his breath. "I'm sure he'll be impressed." As they waited for the lift to reach their destination, the blonde tried to think of an explanation for his arrival in Heaven with the new Prince of Hell. He supposed he could have been accompanying him to make sure he didn't try anything inadvisable. It likely wouldn't have sat well with the Archangels (who weren't Aziraphale) if Crowley had just sauntered on in without prior warning nor anyone from Heaven to chaperone him. Like Aziraphale had suspected, something had indeed 'come up' - two somethings, as a matter of fact, and right up the lift. The imposter angel cleared his throat and re-adjusted his tie as he stepped up to the seam of the doors. When they opened, he was shocked that the first being that came into view was none other than the very angel they had come there for. For a split second, he had the wild thought of enlisting Crowley's help to simply grab Aziraphale and pull him back inside the lift where they could talk on the way back down to Earth. It would have been easy enough, but maybe a tad too easy. If there were any others about or watching, the plan would quickly have fallen apart. There was also the possibility that the Supreme Archangel might resist being abducted and actually put up a fight or cause a scene. That was the last thing they needed just then - at least, that kind of scene.

"Supreme Archangel Aziraphale, I presume?" the serious, deep-voiced blonde spoke up, pushing his glasses up the bridge of his nose. "Apologies for the lack of forewarning, but someone is here to see you. As I believed he would come to meet you sooner or later, I thought it better to accompany him to Heaven rather than allow him to visit you unattended. Please forgive the hastily-made decisions of a lesser-ranking angel, but it was the best I could think to do at a moment's notice."

He stepped aside and swept out an arm to indicate the demon in the lift. "The newly-appointed Prince of Hell, Crowley."

@ourcwnside

[thewhitefluffyhat]

Thoughts on Deltarune Chapter 2

I wasn't even intending to write a Deltarune post, but here we are!

Have some extended ramblings/theorizing about Undertale, Deltarune, and the role of the "Player" vs character agency.

[Warning: full spoilers for ALL routes in both Undertale and Deltarune!]

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Frisk’s Agency in Undertale

So I'm not sure how common this is nowadays (I haven't been following Undertale theories for a while), but I personally prefer the interpretation that there is no "Player" as an in-universe force in Undertale. I think it's a far more elegant story if the fourth wall isn't broken.

I'm also fond of the Narrator Chara and "Chara isn't pure evil until Murder Route teaches them to be" interpretations too.

And, of course, the third plank bridging those two is that I don't see Frisk as a just a pure, innocent cinnamon roll.

Because I like the story best when it's Frisk who chooses mercy or murder. It gives Frisk a much more complex character, if they are allowed to have the capacity for both immense kindness and immense cruelty. It even gives them an interesting implied character arc, if you take the natural progression path of True Pacifist > Murder Fun Times > Soulless Pacifist.

Just like Flowey, Frisk first tried to use their powers of Determination for good, but eventually they also grew curious and began to see the world as a game. And then they went too far and ultimately regretted it. Regretted it so much, in fact, that they were willing to sell their soul for just a chance to fix it.

After all, it's not you, the "Player," whose SOUL Chara wants. It's you, Frisk.

I also dislike the idea of an in-universe "Player" because that implies that "Frisk" is nothing but an empty shell - on ALL routes. All of those heartwarming moments in the True Pacifist route? All of the silly Flirt actions? Yeah, that's not Frisk, that's just as much the "Player" puppeting some poor kid's body as the events of the Bad Times.

Who knows what Frisk is truly like if their every action - good or ill - is controlled by some unseen, eldritch force? Now Frisk no longer has any characterization.

And given that said force overrides Frisk's agency, then isn't the "Player" evil no matter which route you take? It's become a story where they only "moral" choice is never to pick up the game at all. Hrm.

Anyway, but that's all Undertale. Which brings me to...

What the heck is going on in Deltarune?

Unlike Frisk=the Red SOUL in Undertale, we don't seem to control Kris=the Red SOUL in Deltarune. The game repeatedly underlines that the player only controls the Red SOUL, not Kris.

(Though, with stuff like the sound of the bathroom faucet only being audible when Kris's actual body is nearby - it seems like even when separated, the Red SOUL may still be perceiving through Kris's other senses besides sight...?)

With Spamton's dialogue and Kris's reaction after the non-Weird NEO fight, there's also a lot more emphasis in Deltarune of Kris (and the rest of the party!) being puppeted by some other force. And that's on top of all the stuff in the first chapter highlighting Kris/the Red SOUL's lack of agency.

Because of all those hints, Deltarune seems to be much more explicitly pointing toward that dark interpretation of Undertale - that the "Player"/Red SOUL is removing Kris's agency, regardless of route.

Indeed, I'm somewhat intrigued by the possibility that we/the Red SOUL might be forcing Kris to act nice just as much as we force them to act cruel. The way that Kris deliberately removes the Red SOUL in order to do some very suspicious actions might support that. As do some comments in Chapter 1, like characters in the post-Dark World walkaround noting how Kris is being less weird and more inquisitive than usual. Maybe Kris is the Knight and the Red SOUL is possessing them to undo their evil actions. Maybe the real Kris doesn't want to be friends with Susie and Ralsei at all!

But taking that interpretation to such an extreme also doesn't quite fit. Why does Kris slash the tires on Toriel's car? The only reason I can think of is that they want to keep Susie at their house. And why does Kris create the Dark World in their house? Is Kris creating the fountains because they want to have fun with friends? Especially right after the chapter emphasized how great the Dark World adventures were, that seems very likely.

There are also some smaller details too, of Kris interpreting the Red SOUL's input with their own spin (like saying things sarcastically), or of Kris chatting in a friendly way with Ralsei which the player/SOUL can't influence.

So, I'm pretty sure that even outside of the Red SOUL's control, Kris genuinely does like their friends.

Meanwhile, there were a lot of hints this chapter that Something Bad happened to Kris, Noelle, Dess, and Asriel when they went exploring in the forest by the graveyard. Most likely, they went into that ominous bunker south of the town. Is that incident related to Kris’s current strangeness?

And then, and THEN, there's the Snow Mercy route. That route seems to imply that the Red SOUL is both evil, and very much not Kris. Noelle says Kris isn't like themself, that their voice changes strangely, and she can still hear the creepy voice even when Kris is downed.

How to make sense of this all?

A Theory on Kris and the Red SOUL

One idea is that as scary and zombie-like as Kris looks without the SOUL, they're probably a nice, if lonely kid who desperately wants friends after their big brother went to college. (And possibly after something traumatic happened to them/their neighbor.) They're creating the Dark Worlds for the sake of fun and escapism.

But the Red SOUL puts an end to Kris's happy fantasies. Indeed, if the Red SOUL gives up, "the world is covered in darkness." So without the Red SOUL, would Kris simply keep creating fountains...? (What ARE the fountains, why can Kris and theoretically any Lightener create them?)

Maybe in the normal route, the Red SOUL is trying to gently help Kris move on and accept reality in some way. At the very least, I suspect Ralsei is working toward this goal.

But in that case... that's a pretty strange way for the Red SOUL to go about it, forcibly taking control of Kris to the point that the kid notices and seems to greatly resent it.

But what if the Red SOUL didn't have a choice about this arrangement either?

After all, the Red SOUL's customized vessel was discarded at the start of Chapter 1... and it was placed into Kris instead.

Here's a question: will Kris die if they're without a SOUL for too long?

Because there are an awful lot of moments in these games where characters break free of something they are bound to, but it doesn't end well: -Spamton collapses when his strings are cut. -The Darkeners can move freely outside their origin world for a while, but eventually turn to statues if they stay in another world. -Regardless of whether Berdly removes the Queen’s wires himself, he's exhausted and unable to fight any more after being under her control. -And when Kris takes the Red SOUL out of their body, their movements become slow and clumsy. Like it's a struggle for them to move at all.

Meanwhile in Undertale, post-Pacifist Asriel could maintain his form to say goodbye, but without SOUL(s), he inevitably returns to being Flowey.

So here's a theory: Kris died and/or lost their original soul. Perhaps due to some action/inaction on Noelle's part in the exploration incident. And as a last-ditch resort to keep them alive, the Red SOUL was somehow implanted in Kris.

(Also maybe Dess died/went missing at the same time...?)

And now, the Red SOUL the only thing keeping Kris around. 

But just like in Undertale, it seems like Deltarune SOULs have wills of their own.

Which means Kris's current state is similar to the Chara-Asriel fusion, or Omega Flowey, or even Frisk-Chara. Control of the body is shared. The difference is that instead of the SOUL we play representing the original owner/will of the body, this time the SOUL we're playing as is the intruder.

Essentially, this time around we are playing the role of the Chara-equivalent instead of the Frisk-equivalent!

(Though whether Kris themself is more of Chara or Frisk I’ll leave to other theorists...)

Anyway, while Kris likely wishes to be rid of the SOUL and dislikes this whole body sharing arrangement, they know they can't survive without it. And perhaps Kris being in a partially soulless state might explain why they do questionable stuff like creating Dark Worlds and slashing their mom's car tires in order to play with their friends. (Again, see also: Asriel/Flowey.)

But when the Red SOUL and Kris are in alignment, things go okay. The Red SOUL suggests commands, but Kris is willing to follow and seems to enjoy being with Susie and Ralsei.  

Let’s Talk About Snow Mercy

It's when the Red SOUL and Kris aren't in alignment... well. That seems to be what's happening in the Snow Mercy route. That kind of situation sure didn't go so hot with Frisk and Chara in Undertale, so I doubt this will end nicely for Kris and the Red SOUL either. At the very least, Kris seems to have been visibly upset after what happened with Noelle in this route.

(By the way, there are two other moments in Chapter 2 when Susie asks if Kris is okay - first after the normal Spamton NEO fight and subsequent discussion of what it meant and second after she and Kris approach the bunker.

Three different moments, but Kris appears to react similarly. Are all of these things related? The bunker, Kris being puppeted, and the events of the Snow Mercy route?)

Meanwhile, here’s a contrast. Undertale's Murder Route seemed to exist for the sake of curiosity and power - either the "Player" or Frisk's desires, whichever interpretation you subscribe to. And the changes to the world were all logical consequences of that - because of the Fallen Child's rampage, friendly NPCs disappear, major characters fight you more seriously, etc.

But the actions in Snow Mercy are... weirdly specific, weirdly unpredictable. It doesn't come across as a simple power trip. Instead, Snow Mercy is a bunch of really bizarre actions that feel even more mysterious to the player as they are to Noelle and Kris. I sure wouldn't have guessed that backtracking to the trash heap and freezing a bunch of enemies would lead to new items spontaneously appearing and then giving Noelle access to a scary new spell. It's like something straight out of a creepypasta!

The overall tone that comes across to me is that the Red SOUL seems to know what it's doing, even while the player is kept in the dark. And given Noelle's responses, it almost seems like the SOUL is trying to remind her of events/actions from her past, events which are obviously unknown to the player. All of which leads me to think that the Red SOUL has motives and goals of its own... so just like Undertale, this probably isn't a situation of the "Player" being a fourth wall-breaking force either.

The Red SOUL is its own character.

And I'm certainly curious to find out more about them!

[zodiacrant]

What placements would make someone want to argue all the time/go against what other people think, go against the grain, be different etc?

I am not exactly sure whether you’re talking about someone argumentative, rebellious, or just wants to be different for the sake of being different, so I am going to do all three! 😂

Argumentative

Aries Mercury/Mercury in 1st/Aries in 3rd: People with these placements (myself included) argue and bicker all the time. It’s a way of getting the point across. At times, they can come off aggressive and brash while talking. People might hate talking to them because they know that the smallest of differences can turn into an all-out verbal war. In short, they say what they say without realizing how it may come off as abrasive, intimidating or authoritative. It’s all about the tone.

Sagittarius and/or Leo Sun/Mercury/Mars/Dominance: They got something to say and they’re going to say. They have an opinion about everything and everyone regardless of the circumstances. They can come off rude, inappropriate or someone that steps off their boundaries. Although they might not get how it’s not their place to say what they have said, they might stick to complete silence if told so. 

Fire Moons: They feel things so powerfully that they can’t express them otherwise. No matter how much they deny it, Fire Moons are super super super suuupppppeeeerrr sensitive to what others say about them. Fire Moons try their best to be in a good mood by making others be in a good mood, so when things don’t work out how they wanted, enter the BF (bitch fit) of life. Try and talk sense to a Fire Moon while they’re freaking out, it will go down like the Titanic.

Mercury/Moon Square Mars: This aspect brings the feeling of frustration and anger. These people are emotionally immature and almost everything comes off as a personal attack. They didn’t get to cross the traffic light in time, it was on purpose, they didn’t get that job, they got a vendetta against them, they were not given enough ketchup, it was a set up. They are quick to go off and don’t allow people to give any negative feedback. It’s hard to communicate with them in full honesty since they only like the good but never the bad. The lesson of the Square here is to pick your battles and be more mindful of yourself.

Sun/Pluto Square MC: These people got an issue with confidence, power, and dominance. They feel the need to be loud and in everyone’s face to be seen or heard. They place their worth on money, material objects and job titles. They will argue to win you up to put the focus back on them, they might even cut you down just so they can be higher. The lesson of the Square here is that confidence and assertiveness are silent but insecurities are loud.

Rebellious 

Aquarius in 1st/3rd/4th and/or Uranus in 1st/3rd/11th: These people were meant to stand out. The way they talk, walk, stand, how they dress, what do they talk about, and how they simply go out about their day is unique, to say the least, but that uniqueness comes from a strong sense of self and appreciation for freedom. They’re rebels by default.

Scorpio/Sagittarius in 11th: Here people are rebellious for their authentic self. They’re walking statements, non-conforming, and at times a lone wolf. They stand on their own for themselves and others, when people think of them they only see them not a group, label or a clique.

Gemini in 4th/5th: Being unconventional and eccentric is a different form of rebellion. Being proud of their work, art, and contributions, no matter how out of the norm and underappreciated it is. Truly an oddball.

Aquarius North Node: These people’s life purpose is to rebel, lead and be different. Having Leo in their South Node, they’re comfortable stepping into the limelight but as they realize their true calling is to use that to make people aware and break through the walls. 

Earth Moons: I know half of you are right now in shock but the case of the matter is that the Earth element is actually untamable. Because they run with facts and what actually is, many times you find Earth Moons fighting for the right thing and in the name of science.  A big part of their rebellious ways is to fight stigmas, misconceptions and void “facts”.

Sagittarius in 1st: People with this rising live life to the fullest. They want to see, feel, and be in every part of the world. Although their rebellion might be viewed to be juvenile, they still dare to live to feel alive.

Sun Square 4th/10th/11th: Rebellion in here is a natural state for these people. They cannot be controlled and won’t take orders. Sun (self) in Square with either the 4th (mother), 10th (father) or 11th (society) had a bad run as a child with these specific groups/people, which ultimately lead to their constant rebelling of anyone and everyone. 

Forced difference 

Lilith in 3rd/11th: I am not religious but god bless these everyday victims. People with this placement feel victimized by everyone. It is a constant battle between what they think happened and what actually happened. Lilith creates the illusion of people staring at you and living in constant paranoia of who said what and who did what. This makes them drive a wedge between themselves and their peers, cornering themselves, distancing and repeating the phrase “no one understands what I am going through”, creating a reality in which everyone hates them and is against them

Gemini/Aquarius Moon: Told to me by people with this placement that they HATE having a similarity to someone or being compared. I like to call them the mainstream indie group, where alternative is an aesthetic and being weird is a look. I had one Gemini Moon best friend that pretended to be possessed in church, and an Aquarius Moon best friend that learned things, like doing rubrics cubes, just to show off. Fun people but way too forced in proving their “uniqueness”. 

Venus in 11th: These are the people who are adored by the masses, and at times for no apparent reason. Ego is prevalent when the planet of love is the house of society. It brings a god complex on to the person and an impeccable ability to find 100 reasons that make them special. 

Neptune in 8th: I got two words for you, fake deep.

Pisces in 3rd: They love to lie and make up things about their life. But they’re good at it, they’re convincing. This gives them a sense of power, control, and importance, which in turn leads them to believe that they’re different.

I hope I answered your question, and sorry for replying late. 

Hope you guys enjoyed the post. Lova ya 💕