#iliad odysseus being badass

[katerinaaqu]

Odysseus vs Trojans: Animal References and their importance (An analysis based on Homer's Iliad)

In 11th Rhapsody of Iliad we have an amazing moment in which Odysseus rushes on the spot to save Diomedes from Trojans who swarmed towards him as he was wounded at the leg by Paris's arrow. And the battle is the very least fascinating.

Odysseus had his own share of battles but arguably the one he had in rhapsody 11 is one to remember. He covers the retreat of Diomedes and stays behind while Diomedes is allowed to flee. While there he comes face to face with Socus who smites him with his spear. Odysseus is saved from his bowels being impaled thanks to Athena. After the killing of Socus himself (with a spear from the back and through the heart, damn that dude is good gotta give him that!) And he is left alone to fight the Trojans that surround him. He realizes that he is getting weaker and weaker from bloodloss and unlike other heroes Odysseus is not stupid. He knows he doesn't have chances of survival and so he calls three times for the Achaeans that are close to hear him. Eventually he is heard by Menelaus who respond to his call and arrives to his rescue with the Telamonian Ajax.

However both before and after the killing of Socus (and consequently the wounding of the hero) we have two almost identical scenes of Odysseus being surrounded by Trojans who come for him. However there seems to be an interesting difference between the two scenes

Odysseus is paralleled with different animals in different contexts

So in the first scene before the wounding by Socus we have the specific scene:

And just like two stout and vigorous hounds push a boar as it has come out of the thick woods to sharpen his white tusks in its curvy jaws, and they attack him from both sides under the sound of his gnashing teeth, but they also remain afar seeing how terrifying he is the same way Odysseus, dear to Zeus was keeping both Trojans at bay

(Translation by me)

Okay allow me to say this for one more time but HOMER IS A FREAKING GENIUS IN DESCRIPTIONS! Seriously not only do we have an amazing visual that everyone can place to the top of their heads but, daresay, we have also a sound imprint as well; the dogs that are barking as they approach the boar are the Trojans who release their battle cries or their rumblings and Odysseus is the boar; snorting and gnarling back as he is fighting.

But the visuals are not far back either!

Odysseus is a boar. For those who can google the image know how dangerous creatures wild boars are and hounds do not always dare to get close but rather keep their distance, on occasions making swift attacks because they are afraid of the ferocious strength of the creature. Odysseus the same way is aspiring fear to the Trojans. One can imagine his movements; precise, quick and fierce. You can imagine him move like a boar; making a sudden, threatening move towards the Trojans that attack him possibly making a growling or an respiring sound and the Trojans immediately jump back, keeping their distance and regroup. Odysseus is circled; obviously at disadvantage but his ferocity in battle is for sure there! Odysseus though is still a dangerous opponent; fighting in full strength against the Trojans that come for him

However the description is massively different after he is wounded and has fought for quite some time

And then they found Odysseus, dear to Zeus being surrounded from both sides by Trojans who chased him as if they were tawny jackals in the mountains, surrounding a horned stag wounded by a man's arrow, from whom it has fled running away swiftly, and now the warm blood is flowing upon its knees: but once the arrow has overpowered it the carnivorous jackals devour it in the shadowy grove of the mountain

(Translation by me)

HOMER! GODDAMMIT HOMER!

Honestly how much more descriptive can this man be? Because immediately the feeling of the scene has changed. Odysseus is no longer a boar but a stag; a stag is also a proud and powerful animal but this stag is wounded. It is bleeding profoundly and the jackals are coming for him!

Not only is Homer creating the PERFECT ANALOGY here

wounded bleeding stag-> Odysseus wounded by the spear bleeding

a stag wounded by a hunter-> Odysseus was wounded by Socus not by any other Trojan that attack him now

jackals smell the blood and attack-> The Trojans see Odysseus is wounded and bleeding out and arrive to find an opening

jackals come to devour-> Odysseus is bleeding out; he is losing blood and losing strength

but we also get to see how massively the energy is shifting. Odysseus is no longer defending himself by scaring his opponents or keeping him at bay. He is DEFENDING HIMSELF against THEIR attacks. He is no longer having the advantage; his previous threatening posture just like a deer that is bleeding out, is slowly coming to an end. The urgency for his rescue is even more intense now. He is surely losing the game. He is bleeding and possibly you can imagine him already sweating, breathing hard, having trouble seeing or moving. His wound is not life-threatening per se but his bleeding is and the attacks keep coming and Homer more or less tells us that the Trojans wait for Odysseus to collapse on the ground before attacking him.

Honestly HOW AWESOME IS THAT WRITER?! Sorry but I think this was the perfect transfer from one scene to another; a man in defense but still a threat that keeps his opponents at bay and even kills them one by one to a wounded man that is close to collapse and even if he tries his best to keep himself in a proud and strong posture he is slowly losing and the Trojans know it. And of course the scene of his rescue where Ajax is presented as a large lion that forces the jackals to flee before its roar and the size and strength!

Honestly I am not sure why not more people speak about this transfer of mood in the passage but here I am!

[evergreen292]

Hmm, maybe I should elaborate on why I am so furious with the 600 strike and therefore totally disappointed in Epic the Musical.

Okay, there’s no problem with the help from the souls of the crew; let’s collectively forget that they should hate him because he was the reason for their deaths, and that they shouldn’t even be there since they died not near Ithaca, and Hades wasn’t likely giving them a day off from the underworld.

No problem with the wind bag, so conveniently delivered by the trident; okay, just a really wild coincidence.

But here the problems start:

1. Since when does a totally uncontrollable and turbulent storm act like a controllable jetpack?

2. Since when is Odysseus totally capable of not only using this jetbag with ease from the very start but also using it in a damn battle? Is that believable in the slightest?

3. Since this is Poseidon’s storm and Poseidon is fully capable of controlling it (as we see at the end), why didn’t he just turn the storm off a little bit earlier, right inside the jetbag, to get rid of Odysseus without any problem? Because the author says so? That’s just silly.

4. Why doesn’t Poseidon fight back but mostly just float helplessly? Yes, he is supposed to be a worse fighter at close range, but not helpless at close range! Why didn’t he even use his own sea for attack or defense? It’s his domain, after all! I saw an opinion that he was shocked because he felt pain for the first time in his divine life… but that’s just not true. He was eaten by his own father and spent his childhood in his stomach, where there was surely enough pain. Also, gods fought their own wars with titans and giants, so he must have experienced enough pain in battle. He even fought in disguise alongside mortals in the Trojan War. So it can’t be the reason. What is the reason? Masochism? Or does the author simply understand that there’s no way for Odysseus to win if Poseidon fights back or at least protects himself with water?

5. Why does Poseidon just let his trident lie on the ground for Odysseus to pick it up slowly? Poseidon was already pretty well beaten by this mortal, so I just don’t believe he didn’t consider Odysseus a threat at that moment. So… just why? Another author’s decision for the sake of a desirable (but totally illogical) Odysseus victory?

6. Why does Poseidon let himself be stabbed repeatedly by his own trident and not even try to take it back, run, or use water to evade? Is he really this masochistic? Another “because the author wants it so”? And we can see that Poseidon bears serious pain well enough, by the way.

7. Poseidon calling Odysseus a "monster" as an accusation is just hilarious because with all his ruthless philosophy, it should rather be a praise! So we have a clearly out-of-character Poseidon here. Also, I think he would rather die (being immortal, yes) than ask a mortal (!) for mercy! And all the “how would you sleep at night” is just so out of character for Poseidon from all the gods! He is ruthless himself, so… is he sleeping poorly at night all these thousands of years? Really? Does he genuinely consider his ruthless deeds something to regret? Do we have a straight PJO Poseidon here instead of our old epic one?! This line seems just forced for the sake of a “badass” Odysseus's response.

So we already have too many illogical moments that the author uses to get a desirable but totally unbeliveable result. But what about mythological accuracy? In Greek mythology, we have no examples of a god being literally defeated (not tricked or captured) by a mere human. Only wounded—twice—in the Iliad, but in the first case, it was Aphrodite, who is specifically described as weak in wartime. And in the second case with Ares, Athena was there invisibly, literally guiding Diomedes's spear to the weak spot with her own hand. So we can’t even say that it’s mythologically possible for a mere human to defeat a god, especially one whose power is comparable to Zeus.

So… now you can see why I am totally disappointed with the 600 strike.

Thanks for coming to my TED Talk.

[genericpuff]

Hii!! I wanted to ask more or less at what point in time does LR take place? We obviously see Dionysus is here and I’m going to assume some other myths and stories will have been taken place before LR while some will happen afterwards(maybe like the Iliad and all that).

Though I can't give a specific date for when these events happen (because a lot of myths are rather ambiguous in their relativity to each other in terms of time periods) LR does still take place relatively early on compared to other myths, as it will inevitably showcase Kore's story in becoming Queen of the Underworld and the creation of the seasons, and she goes on to play key roles in other myths that would follow, including The Iliad and the tale of Orpheus and Eurydice.

I would say, to give my best estimation as to where LR would fall specifically on any sort of perceived "timeline"... the present events of LR are closer to the Neolithic era than the Bronze Age/"Heroic Age" (i.e. the age of mortal heroes such as the Argonauts and Achilles/Odysseus/etc.) but there's still a considerable gap of time between saaaay Kore's birth and the Titanomachy, and an even bigger gap between her ascension to the Underworld throne and the Trojan War. Not really in the middle, necessarily, but roughly like this, give or take a few centuries here and there haha:

And yes, this is something I'm pretty much constantly considering while plotting out the story haha I basically always keep both the Titanomachy and the Trojan War specifically in mind as the "control points", as most myths usually happen between the two (and any that happen after the Trojan War often involve gods or mortals who were involved in the war or were the next generation following).

Overall, many myths that could be adapted into the tale of Kore and Hades within LR just wouldn't work because they happen either right before the Trojan War (during the era of the Argonauts) or directly after.

Obviously this isn't a perfect method by any means, not just because there are always bound to be some inconsistencies when it comes to interpreting the "timeline" of Greek myth, but because many of the original myths themselves are often up for debate as to when exactly they would have happened, based on whatever limited resources we have. After all, Homer himself (if he even existed) was writing down stories that were already being told for who knows how many generations that came before him. Just like how the modern era influences how these myths are retold, so too were the myths back then being re-interpreted for new audiences and generations.

And that's not even getting into the complexity of "which myths were documenting literal events and which ones were just metaphors that earned new meaning over time." So even the Trojan War isn't a foolproof control point because it could have very well just been a fairy tale told to motivate warriors and soldiers. Last I checked, scholars can still only give their best guess LMAO

All of that, of course, is just my own two cents on the "timeline" of Greek myth and how it pertains to LR specifically as a transformative fan work. I try to loosely stick to what I can glean of a "timeline" for the sake of keeping LR's story functional, and when it comes right down to it, it's not going to be tackling as many myths as LO, instead opting to focus in on Kore and Hades and Demeter as the central characters. Considering how many myths happened after Persephone became Queen, you should hopefully be able to approach it with the assumption of "this story happens centuries after the Titanomachy but relatively early in the age of mortals before all the badass hero stuff happened" 😅😆

That said, at the end of the day, we're operating through our own logic of what we interpret, because while there are eras that are cleanly divided by political movements and wars of the time, the myths themselves as we often know them are still based on the poetic interpretations that survived. It makes for a fun challenge, especially when it comes to the overall "mixing pot" of Ancient Greece as a culture, influenced not only by Rome, but Egypt and Mesopotamia as well, among many others.

Still, I hope that helps at least give you somewhat of a vague idea of where Kore and Hades currently are in the "timeline"! Or whatever we wanna call it LMAO

[miroana]

Things I like about Troy (2004)

- Everyone is so hot. so hot. thank you for your service

- Amazing action choreography and acting — you can recognize the characters from their fighting and movements alone

- Gorgeous set and costume design

- Good acting performances. shoutout to Odysseus for being the best (and shady as hell), Hector for his impeccable honor, and Achilles, Helen, and Paris for being hot as fuck. It deserves a second mention

- Agamemnon sucks and it needed to be said

- That one line about the gods envying mortals because everything is more beautiful when you’re doomed, which everyone attributes to Homer but was actually just Brad Pitt

- Depicts the sacking of Troy as a tragedy and not a triumph which is what Homer would have wanted

Things I don’t like about Troy (2004)

- cousins

- Not accurate to the Iliad in any sense whatsoever

- Like seriously that was off in so many ways I’m not even going to bother to list them. just assume that if it happened in the movie it’s probably not in the Iliad

- All the women had no personality besides being sad. It’s such a shame bc I have it on good authority that Helen is brilliant if a bit vain and Briseis is very kind and brave

- cousins?

- The gods aren’t in it (no hilarious petty squabbling)

- My man Patroclus didn’t get his heroic bloody rampage so effective and violent that Apollo had to put him down

- No Big Ajax and his friend, Little Ajax

- Also, where is Diomedes is he safe is he okay? No, I get it. they didn’t want to overshadow Achilles and Diomedes is a class A badass. but still

- Achilles never physically fights a river in his endless rage (and wins)

- COUSINS???

[dootznbootz]

Which Greek mythology character would you like to see talked about more?

OHoho. you all already know this.

It's Penelope.

And I am being so fucking serious about it. I'm also sleepy and angry and mother nature is stabbing my gut so I'm putting a lot of my emotions into this ask.

BUT her fangirling, angry, bitchy rant of mine, I will save for the end. (and I'll explain it more down there) Not gonna lie, I will probably be mean. Don't take it too personally. (Some folks I know genuinely love her and have stuff for her. Y'all are fine :D )

I have many other characters I wish would be seen more, but hers rant is ooooh. it's been boiling angrily for a long time and this is the perfect ask to let loose.

Take note: This is more about characters who I feel are either underrated and/or not really given love. It's a whole other can of worms about characters who ARE given a lot of attention but are either fandomized to the point of being unrecognizable or people just...really see them wrong.

Ariadne:

A young princess who helped out Theseus to end the cycle of violence against the youth of Athens. Despite the fact that she was going against her family by helping Theseus she did. When he left her, for whatever reason, she was rescued by Dionysus. In which these two have a loving and healthy marriage. There is so much potential here and it makes me sad that she gets butchered and/or just ignored.

Danae:

She was locked up by her father because of a prophecy that happened anyway. She is now pregnant with Zeus' child. She is then locked into a chest in which she is sent floating in the sea. She washes up on Seriphos. Her son is sent on an impossible quest in order to keep her from a forced marriage. Her story is inspiring and ugh sdkf j badass mama! ;~;

Telemachus:

Got that right here :)

Sthenelus:

Fucking love this lil hotheaded cheerleader man. Go boy, go! He got yeeted by Athena from the chariot. Diomedes and him tell each other that they love each other. Tells off Agamemnon for mocking Diomedes' and his dad. He was a child soldier alongside Diomedes. I love this weird lil guy.

Hephaestus:

It makes me sad how people only see him as the "cuck" of Aphrodite and Ares. (no hate to them. do not hate either of them) He's badass in his own right! He does that bigass fire in the Iliad! And one of my favorite scenes in that epic, is him welcoming Thetis! I think he's neat :D

Hebe:

Ganymede isn't the only cupbearer on Olympus you know.

Menelaus:

I love me a goofy wifeman...But if that's all you see him as, I'm sad. What about the sealy man? (aka him wrestling a god for a while and making him tell him answers) The exiled prince? The younger brother? The angry charioteer who yelled at Antilochus? The man who interfered with his brother's letter to his wife to warn to not bring their daughter? Being the sweet uncle figure for Telemachus? (he and Penelope get a lot of the same treatment in a way. with the whole "just the spouse" ;~; )

Psyche:

I think she's pretty popular, but shout out to her anyway :D Because I love her story a lot.

And last but absolutely not least,

Penelope

Heads up once more, but I'm going to be so fucking mean right now. I'm very tired and runnin on 4 hours of sleep and my tummy hurts. This is all over the place and I'm sad.

I think some of you treat the fact that Odysseus is (rightfully) obsessed with her and adores her as if that's HER personality trait... as while it's adorable to see him simping over her as he does, she's not just there for him (and me) to simp for. In the same vein, I think some of y'all only see her for her love of Odysseus and nothing more. Some folks don't see her as anything more than what she is for Odysseus.

AS IF HER HUSBAND ISN'T JUST AS INTERTWINED WITH HER AS SHE IS WITH HIM!

And yet, there is so much stuff with him about the other people in his life. The other Achaeans, Polites and Eurylochus, Athena, etc. You know Penelope has people in her life other than her husband and her son, right?

Even stuff that's just her, it's usually her weaving the shroud...That still ties back to Odysseus. If you wanna have her weave, maybe have her weave something happily. Maybe her chatting with Anticlea or Athena while she does! Or Helen! or her sister!

There's the saying of "the characters respect women but the author does not" and I'm noticing that a LOT in this fandom. I don't think it's intentional, but it's very telling with what people prioritize in their creations how they feel. (and no, I'm not talking about Homer. He wrote incredible women.)

I'm not saying you're not allowed to have favorites. But even if Odysseus IS your favorite, if you have Penelope so one note or with such weak characterization while having so much for Odysseus, FOR THE MEN WHO HE IS NEAR... It's just really telling.

I've even seen some shit with "Well, there's not much to do with her." as if y'all don't make OCs with less. I've seen people give Astyanax, an AU baby, more characterization than her. (Have him alive in your AUs but if you give him more character than Peenlope, I am side-eying you so hard.)

It genuinely pisses me off how overlooked she is. I hate how her tags are basically empty (honestly? I might start tagging my silliness for her correctly because it has so lil.)

Hey, why do followers of the other tags show up but not for #penelope of ithaca? It's clearly because she has SO many followers/fans that she broke tumblr! Especially with the fact that you can scroll all the way to the bottom pretty quickly! /sarcasm

(btw, before you say something, I know there's no consistent tag for Penelope. I follow many of them. #penelope odyssey is kind of the best bet I believe. #penelope of sparta is mostly about that new show that's coming out and hyping about it. still not about HER. #penelope mostly has some bridgerton character. so yeah. Not much on tumblr)

(shoutout to the artists who got their art on front of the tag! That's exciting! I'm being a mean bitch right now but that's fun and exciting!)

I hate how people see her as so one-note. I hate how she's often just "Odysseus' wife". MOST CONTENT OF HER IS HIM SIMPING OVER HER. (that's something I'm guilty of too! I plan to fix that soon. I have so many wips and so lil time and too high of personal standards because since she has so little content of her, I WILL make it good. I'll TRY to make it good.)

EVEN HEADCANONS! SO MUCH OF FANDOM STILL ONLY HAS HEADCANONS THAT HAVE TO DO WITH ODYSSEUS OR TELEMACHUS. GIVE ME SOMETHING ABOUT HER CHILDHOOD. GIVE ME LIL QUIRKS SHE HAS. What does she struggle with? What's her favorite color? Does she like dancing? ANYTHING.

Feelings about how fandom sees her are also summed up by this and this. (Edit: This one too. She's not even dead in the Odyssey but people act like she doesn't exist until Odysseus is there.)

...Do you see my problem? Just one of my problems?

So many people genuinely read the Odyssey and just see her as the "crying wife". People diminish her character and her intelligence all the fucking time. You wanna know something I've noticed? PEOPLE ONLY TALK ABOUT HER INTELLIGENCE WHEN ODYSSEUS IS THERE. Like with how she tricks him and how she tricks the suitors. Nobody talks about the moment when Athena appears as her sister in her dream and she is immediately like "hey, if you're some god, is my husband still alive?" she clocks her as Athena RIGHT AWAY.

People constantly forget her violent thoughts against the suitors! Or when she sasses Telemachus and Euryclea. When she scolds and threatens the maids. (she's not always nice y'all!) Do you really think Odysseus would be obsessed with someone who isn't on his level?

We all know that he loves her. BUT WHY?! "Because she's smart like him." Yeah, we know. WHAT ELSE?

They are Likeminded! Thinking and acting alike! You know how fun that is?!

Homer, you absolute mad lad genius. You made her a mystery to the narrator, Odysseus, and for some reason, people see that as her just being a straight up mystery. You wrote her so wonderfully and so complex with how she is so sneaky in her own way that people are literally tricked by her as readers as well!

Or sadly, more likely, people fucking blackout when she's in the scene and there's no Odysseus. 🙄

Look, even if you have Penelope be the "braincell" who keeps her husband in line, MAKE SURE SHE'S NOT ACTING LIKE ODYSSEUS' FUCKING MOM. They're both grown ass adults for fuck's sake!

Also...please...PLEASE have her be more than a prop for the men around her. I've read some things that could literally have her be replaced by Euryclea, as Penelope is sometimes just used as a sounding board.

I'll be even more bitchier. Even in the OT3 she's commonly in. It wasn't a NOTP until I noticed most creations of that ship was just "Odysseus and this person for 6000+ words... Oh, and Penelope making an appearance in the footnotes." If it's an OT3, they all love each other right? Where's the PenDio fics/art, cowards?

I have a weird theory about how people treat her that way. (other than fandom prioritizing men)

So there's "girlbossing" and "uwu sad victim" that fandom can never seem to leave. I think People do this with Helen and Clytemnestra and that's why THEY are "blorbo-able". (not saying they shouldn't be but they definitely get more love than Penelope)

Helen, despite not always being a victim in her story, has been through so much. Kidnapped and some people blame her for it (irl and some people in canon do blame the war on her). Very easy to cling to. I cling to her too! (she's on the "UwU always victim. tragic blorbo" end)

Clytemnestra, is a victim in the sense that she's a grieving and angry mother and wife. And so she killed Agamemnon. Her violence and anger is seen as "girlboss" despite all the horrible stuff she also did to her children. (she's more on the "girlboss" end)

Penelope, is not a victim to the same degree as Helen nor does she murder anyone (how could she? it was 108 people against her and the Odyssey shows that the suitors' parents were enraged. Even Odysseus was skeptical he could beat them.)

She's not on either end of the "scales" for people to find her "blorbo-able". She doesn't murder her husband or the suitors by herself or is a victim to them in the same way Helen is.

And that's just for people who know her husband didn't cheat. I think with people who think Odysseus did cheat, they hate her because "she let it slide". That she's "weakwilled" for knowing her husband went through literal hell and wanting him to be happy and safe.

Idk, It's a little lonely being one of the few "Penelope crazy" blogs.

I sometimes wonder if people kind of come to my blog in a "Hey, can you love her for me? Can you think about her for us?" as I have seen very little on her childhood for example. It's STILL mostly in relation to others.

It's not even the "sharing ideas" that bugs me. it's the feeling of people not wanting to come up with headcanons/ideas for her OUTSIDE of canon.

"She was in Helen's shadow." Okay, well, how did she feel about it? What did she do about it? Did she hide away? Did she internalize that? Did she find that freeing? To not be the center of attention?

Stuff like that. Dive DEEPER. PLEASE

It makes me happy that people love my Penelope as I love her too, clearly. But I really fucking hope you love the CANON Penelope too. If you think I made Penelope "better" or anything like that, then leave. She's already fantastic on her own.

I want to talk about her more. I want her to be seen more.

[quill-beetlewing]

Here are some completely random fun facts about Odysseus' family from various myths:

His grandfather, Autolycus (meaning "the wolf itself", pretty badass) , was a shape-shifting trickster, also known as "the king of all thiefs", with the ability to change the shape of random objects he stole and was also the direct son of Hermes (originally he was just some dude Hermes liked, post-Odyssey he was changed to be his son. I'd say both versions are equally accepted though the son thing wasn't there from the beginning).

Autolycus was also the sworn rival of King Sysyphus, who you might know as that one guy who escaped death and whose punishment for it was pushing a rock for eternity, or that very nice guy from Tartarus in Hades. Autolycus used to steal Sysyphus' cattle and when the latter finally managed to find tangible proof of his guilt he did the only sensible thing he could think of.

He fucked his daughter.

As one does.

As I'm saying this I really want you guys to imagine the Sysyphus from Hades doing all this. Because I find it fucking hilarious.

Also btw, said daughter is named Anticleia and in her youth she was apparantly a companion to Artemis. Absolutely pop off queen.

So Yada Yada time skip and Anticleia promptly moves on from Sysyphus to Laertes of Ithaca, they get married and soon after a baby boy is born. And by soon I mean, pretty soon after. Suspiciously soon after...I think you know where I'm going with this.

YEP, there are some myths where instead of being the son of Laertes, Odysseus is the son of Sysyphus, yet the absolute gigachad that is Laertes still raised the baby as his own.

Now, myths are everything but consistent, and much like Autolycus beings Hermes' son, this connection with Sysyphus was likely added post-Odyssey, meaning that even if this variation of the myth exists, Odysseus was still widely seen as Laertes' biological son and it's pretty safe to say that he's exactly that in both the Iliad and the Odyssey.

Why did I tell you all this then?

Because it's fanfiction material and I want people to use it.

Sooooo, the baby is born and it's time to give him a name, and the one to do just that is Autolycus, for whatever reason. I mean from what I've read Anticleia actually insisted he named him, so yeah, not super important but I still felt like it was worth mentioning.

So Autolycus cradles his new infant grandson, he looks him in his small baby eyes and says: "You know, I pissed off a fuck ton of people during my life, like really a lot of peeps, so I think I'm gonna name him Hateful."

You think I'm joking but this is kinda how it actually went.

The name Odysseus actually means "To Hate", and yeah, Autolycus specifically chooses it because he himself pissed off a lot of people.

And yeah, that's pretty much it really.

I mean I guess there's the fact that Odysseus got his famous leg scar while hunting with his grandpa, but that's stuff you can read directly on the Odyssey anyway. I just wanted to shine a light on the sheer badassery of this family.

So yeah.

Oh also there are certain myths that say that Homer was Telemachus' son through Nestor's youngest daughter and I think that's kinda neat honestly.

(The girl in question SHOULD be Polycaste, thought some people said it was a different daughter that was apparantly not among the original roster of Nestor's kids which probably means she was written in many years later. Telemachus' love life is actually a bit of a mess really, even putting whatever the hell the Telegony is aside, he's still got at least 3 other possible wives, them being Polycaste, Nausicaa and even Calypso. There is also this one line from the Odyssey where Polycaste bathes him and some people apparantly interpreted it as them banging and it's said she eventually gave birth to a boy named Perseptolis. But yeah, the boy's a womanizer.)

Aaaaand yeah, that's pretty much it.

So what did we learn today? Well, in Odysseus' family the badassery is hereditary it seems.

[greatest-greek-games]

Patroclus: Kind Patroclus, wise Patroclus. Often seen as a tempering force on his beloved Achilles, Patroclus is still a force to be reckoned with in his own right, a Myrmidon warrior and skilled soldier. Felled by Hector in battle, Patroclus had perhaps one of the most badass death speeches in the entire Iliad, taunting Hector with his own impending death and the fact that Hector was only the third most responsible person for his death. Genuinely one of the coolest ways to die.

Eurylochus: Eurylochus is best known for being Odysseus's shitty second-in-command, but he's more than that. He's a mirror to Odysseus, a liar who stands against the gods rather than for them. He wants to trust Odysseus, surely, as the man's brother-in-law and friend, but where has trusting Odysseus gotten him? Where has trusting the gods gotten him? He chooses the sailors, and he chooses sacrilege. He chooses to have no fucking art made of him in the past three thousand years, do you know how annoying he was--

[rosquinn]

Hi Roski! I have a question, would you mind to help, please?

Okay, so the other when I was wandering through the shelves of my local library I found our that they have a copy of Madeline's Miller Circe... And I was thinking that maybe I should give it a try? 😅

I know that it's not mythology accurate but as long as the plotline is well-written... Idk maybe I will enjoy in spite of it 🤷🏻‍♀️ Do you is it a good idea?

I just wanted to know if you believe is worth the time or nor

Also, same goes for Achilles's song. They don't have it at the library, but I thought that if I enjoyed Circe I should try it to? 🤔

i used to be a huge madelline miller fan *vaguely gestures at her short story about galatea i still have in my bookshelf for some reason* but i realized she, well, uh, sucks

it's not about her writing, (it's excessively "poetic" and decorated in my opinion but that's subjective) it's that her interpretations are kind of. bad?

i'm gonna elaborate under the cut about why i don't like her (long rant and tw for *mentions of s/a*)

-she victimizes her female main character and makes her go through traumatic experiences to erase and excuse all the bad stuff she's done... "circe turned odysseus' men into pigs bc they tried to assault her" yeah. no. she forced odysseus to sleep with her and turned his men into pigs because she felt like it. i understand you want a feminist badass witch but just. no. she isn't a cute uwu unfairly exiled goddess. what she did to odysseus is sexual abuse.

-she apparently hates women that aren't circe. made thetis, i repeat, our thetis, MOTHER thetis, a homophobic and overprotective mom who wants to kill patroclus in SOA for some reason (wasn't she literally the one who sent patroclus to the war with achilles..... miller..aren't you a classics major..). she did to her what other adaptations do to demeter, basically. and for no reason at all. but i guess her cute baby achilles who is doomed by the narrative can't have a nice mom who let him do whatever he wanted to because that would make him RUDE and EVIL and her character(s) can't have bad qualities. she also made achilles's wife, deidameia, who in some versions is raped by him, a “slut that gets in the way of your gay ship” archetype. she also made her rape achilles for some reason??? and that is fucking horrible

-baby-fied patroclus. he speaks like a stupid teenager girl stereotype in soa and is pretty much a useless human being whose entire personality is simping for achilles. that is not him. he DID fight in the trojan war, he was a SKILLED fighter, not a useless twig, he is described as tall and handsome, he healed some warriors, he is SAVAGE, bro literally broke kebriones's head with a rock in front of his brother and made fun of it??? he tried to climb the walls of troy and conquer it by himself??? he told achilles to stop being a bitch and move his ass??? and then in soa he's a useless piece of shit who DIDN'T EVEN FIGHT IN THE WAR, thinks of himself as weak and was thinking about achilles until the moment he died. sorry to break it to you but his last words in the iliad weren't "omg achilles no😥😥". he threw a whole essay at hector about how he didn't kill shit, it was apollo who beat him and hector's about to get dragged. and when his ghost came back to talk to achilles, it was to tell him to STOP CRYING and KILLING PEOPLE and BURN HIS BODY ALREADY. she completely erased his character. sorry.

-glorified achilles wayyy too much. one thing that i hate about her is how she can't let anyone make mistakes. achilles isn't “noble and doomed by the narrative”. he knew pretty well where he was stepping in and didn't give two shits. he literally says in Iliad book 1 he's there for the mass murder, glory and nothing more. “why would i kill hector what has hector ever done to me” MY ASS. he also was kind of an insufferable bitch in the iliad. i'm tired of people making his decision of stop fighting look “heroic/noble/tragic/etc bc agamemnon is evil” because it was not. he stopped fighting for selfish reasons, treated everyone really bad and let his friends die. also, agamemnon isn't “evil” and achilles isn't “good”. they're both war criminals who act like 8 year olds and kidnap women. every achaean character is a bitch, has killed at least 6 people and enjoyed it. yes. even babyboy patroclus (book 16)

-i'm not even saying this as a person with greek ancestry or a pagan, because i am neither, but her depiction of the gods is TERRIBLE. just what is that whole thing of "gods want mortals to fear them so they worship them"??? that's not even how religion works??? gods can be and in fact are very nice to their worshippers?? why would you villainize cultural figures like that?? and why tf it always gotta be a EVIL FEMALE GODDESS trying to fuck up her main character's life for some reason?? athena wants to kill circe's son in circe and i'm pretty sure they don't even interact in the odyssey?? (maybe they did, i don't remember, but if it happened it was definitely NOT because of that) and why is hermes a manipulator?? and why is ODYSSEUS a manipulator??? you literally sexually assaulted him??? HELLO????

idk, it just feels like mc victimization and random female character villainization (she also put the whole blame of the trojan war on helen because she was “vain” and “selfish”??? didn't she spend the whole iliad blaming herself for the war and wishing to die??)

i don't really like it. it's not a good adaptation

also i'm not the best person to expand on this topic because i am not a gay man/mlm/nblm but some people on tumblr have explained why tsoa is basically mlm fetish and wattpad fujoshi looking crap and they do have a point (the relationship is so stereotyped tbh) so i encourage you to read their posts. i don't have them rn but i can dm them to you later if you want

AND finally, most people in her fanbase can't separate a wattpad fanfic (because that's what tsoa is) from the original text and think tsoa and circe are just like what homer wrote. “hector didn't know it was patroclus” HE FUCKING DID PATROCLUS KILLED 20 PEOPLE IN FRONT OF HIM IT'S UNDERSTANDABLE “patroclus died bc he wasn't a skilled warrior” HE HAS THE SECOND HIGHEST KILL COUNT IN THE WHOLE ILIAD AND WAS FULL OF HUBRIS. HE DIED BECAUSE HE TRIED TO FISTFIGHT A GOD “deidameia raped achilles” “thetis is homophobic” “odysseus is evil” “it was all helen's fault” “circe did nothing wrong” “athena is bad” no (and they act like not shipping patrochilles makes you homophobic which is. cmon. i personally think they def had something going on but it's never explicitly stated and you can't act like it is)

ik i got too aggressive but it's just bad imo, if you want to enjoy a good iliad/odyssey adaptation go play hades or listen to epic the musical or even play limbus company because i swear lc's odysseus, a literal old woman who committed identity fraud, is at least 80 times more in character than miller's babyboys

ADDITION: no i'm not going to dismember you for liking tsoa or circe. this is just a personal opinion. enjoy whatever you want i'm just a little guy and i can't stop you. have fun!

[generouskittentidalwave]

THE CHARACTER DEVELOPMENT

Odysseus went from complaining about only having to use a bow and a few arrows to fight in the Iliad

To then taking on 108 suitors with a bow and a few arrows and badassed his way through them with no complaints from him whatsoever about his weapon being used.

TALK 👏 ABOUT 👏 CHARACTER 👏 DEVELOPMENT 👏

[greenrow]

The song of Achilles rant by a sleep deprived person!

-----------Spoiler warning for the content of The Song of Achilles by Madeline Miller

Please correct if i say something incorrectly here. It's 4 am and my brain won't shut up about this and I'm saying all of this at the top of my head.

Please remember that this is just my opinion. I promise im not actually mad about this /srs

As much as i love tsoa it's not a perfect book. It has its fair share of flaws

I have a major issue about how some characters are portrayed in the book and i think out of the entire cast Patroclus gets it the worst.

I do not like the "uwu shy boy" vibes Patroclus gives throughout the book. This is not a "oh no, somone looked slightly bad at me, im going to cry over here now since it hurt my feelings" sort of guy. He is a "i could kill you if i wanted to, but you're really worthy of that much effort" sort of guy. My man was a badass.

Patroclus was a warrior and a doctor.

He killed another child when he was but a kid over a game of dice.

He killed twelve men alone (one of them being a son of ZEUS) when he was pretending to be Achilles.

He almost infiltrated troy ALONE but Apollo stopped him from doing so.

Hector was able to kill him since he was already weakened by Apollo's interference.

A actual GOD had to get directly involved to stop patroclus from getting into Troy's walls.

And he was trained by Chiron, he was a terrific medic.

When Achilles refused to fight any longer for a Agamemnon's battle that was made worse because of his pride, Patroclus took apon himself to take care of his fellow comrades. If it weren't for his help and medical knowledge it's most likely the Greeks would of had to deal with way more casualties.

I feel the need to emphasize this:

Patroclus was not a damsel in distress. He was not in need of Achilles's contant protection as Miller portrays him as.

Patroclus was Achilles's partner both in love and in battle for a reason.

I would say this is my biggest beef with tsoa to be honest. But like i said i love this book. It's one of my favourites. And i can excuse all that i mentioned before and have an actual good time reading this books because of a couple of reasons.

For starters miller's way of describing things and telling a story is really nice to me. Like i could feel Patroclus's emotions as if they were my own. I could feel, touch, taste his love for Achilles.

And besides tsoa is a retelling of an epic written by a poet who was writing about a story of a war (based on a historical event that may or may not have happen). All of this, Achilles and Patroclus's relationship, the war over helen, Odysseus, might not even have happen. So why be upset over a piece of fiction.

If you wanted an accurate depiction of the trojan war and of Achilles and Patroclus you would read the source material. The Iliad. (Which you should totally do if you haven't already, it's a classic for a reason).

At the end of the day it's still a story. A retelling of a relationship detailed in the original source.

A good tragic love story about two men who loved each other so much that they would know eachother even in death.

To the point where they were made of memories.

[my-name-is-apollo]

I have seen some of your posts that do not speak very well about Madeline Miller's book (or books, depending on how many books written by her you have read). I pretty much have a lot of complains about how she changed Achilles and Patroclus and Circe, turning them into these wishy washy versions. Her books are very well-researched, though.I screeched whenever Apollo shew up(He totally steal the show and I totally read The Song of Achilles for those precious cameos).What do you dislike about them

Well I have many complaints about her books, and one of them is, as you pointed out, the way wrote Achilles, Patroclus, and their relationship. For someone who has read the Iliad beforehand, I was mentally screaming many times while reading it. Why is Achilles gay? He was bisexual. Why is he monogamous? Achilles had female lovers along with male lovers, towards whom he was actually attracted. And this whole thing of...idk, them being like, the perfect couple? The writing was overtly cheesy, romantic and poetic. I mean it is a retelling, and maybe that's her writing style, but it didn't sit well with me. Did I enjoy it as a novel? Yes. Did it make me emotional? Hell yeah. But is it a good retelling of Achilles and Patroclus? I don't know, I don't think so. Maybe it's because in my head Achilles and Patroclus disagreed, fought with each other, and their relationship wasn't perfect at all. And I find it beautiful that way.

Other than that, I generally dislike how she tries to give a feminist™ touch/twist to these ancient myths. She fails at it and it makes me cringe. There is unnecessary vilifying of male characters. Like, when dealing with Iphigenia, she writes something along the lines of "Agamemnon sacrificed his daughter and hoped that some deity will hear his prayer". NOPE! I agree that Agamemnon has been problematic, but Miller makes him look like a heartless father who is ready to sacrifice his daughter for some good omens, whereas in mythology he sacrifices Iphigenia because Artemis had specifically asked him to. I don't condone his actions, but he loved Iphigenia and he was a good father, taking that away just to, idk, make him look more villanous? Ugh. Even in Circe, Circe is raped by the men who accompany Odysseus. In Odyssey that never happens. What was the purpose? Was it actually necessary? I don't think so. It made me feel gross.

One thing I do like is, like you said, the cameos of Apollo. Boiiii that was really good to read. I love reading about Apollo's darker aspects, and I have to say, Miller did it better than any other authors (aka Rick Riordan *cough**cough*) I loved how scary, sneaky and absolutely badass Apollo was. Unfortunately, most of the fans don't have it in them to appreciate this Apollo because they're too focused on their uwu gay babies and mad that Apollo killed them (as if they hadnt signed up for death the minute they agreed to participate in the war lmao)

[myupostsheadcanons]

Books “Read” in 2019

I am going to rank these by how much i enjoyed them vs. any actual literary quality. often well written books aren’t always the most entertaining books.

Note: i listen to many of these books at work, which is why i am able to go through so many of them in a year.

List from 2017 List from 2018

------- My Favs of the Year ----

Novels from The First Law:

Best Served Cold (#1), The Heroes(#3), Red Country(#4), Sharp Ends(#5).

A Little Hatred (#2) (Age of Madness, sequel to The First Law)

I read “The First Law Trilogy” about a year or two ago and finally got around to reading the rest of the books, just in time for a new series taking place in the same world to start up (Age of Madness) and now i am waiting like everybody else for the next two books to come out in 2020 and 2021. A Little Hatred shouldn’t be read as a stand alone, a lot of what goes on is dependent mainly on knowledge from the first trilogy and in The Heroes, then bits and pieces from Best Served Cold and Red Country. So much of your enjoyment of each book is based on what you’ve learned in other ones (character development or seemingly useless information being not so useless later).

Age of Legend (Book 4,  Legend of the First Empire)

This is more-or-less an “aftermath” book where the main characters are still reeling about what happened in the previous book and are trying to make plans for what they are going to do next. I still like the characters and the world/setting it takes place in.

House of Assassins (Saga of the Forgotten Warrior, Book 2)

I’ve been waiting for the next book in this series to come out the second i finished the first book in the series. It is one of those Science fiction in the disguise of Fantasy settings and I am on the edge of my seat waiting to see how that plot/revelation comes out (I am certain that the location the story takes place is Earth, more specifically around Asia/India, but in a post-invasion apocalypse setting where nobody remembers anything prior to the invasion). I also really like how much of a badass Ashok is... i have a thing for emotionally stunted badass characters, especially when their flaws are held up to a mirror and have real consequences.

R. R. Haywood’s Worldship Humility & Extinct (Extracted, Book 3)

I love the way Haywood writes characters and dialog. I was at-first iffy about WSH, but was won over after i warmed up to the new characters.

Shades of Magic Trilogy (A Darker Shade of Magic, A Gathering of Shadows, A Conjuring of Shadows)

Solid multi-verse and magic system world. Well-written characters, some minor nitpicks on plot points, but can be easily ignored. LGBTQ rep, the gays don’t stay buried.

“Don’t you have enough [knives]?” “You can never have too many.” [me, every time: LOL]

One of the few times when a character deserves a redemption arc, doesn’t really get one, dies, and i am perfectly fine with it because it is done well.

Assassin’s Fate (Fitz and the Fool, Book 3)

I read this one in book-book form, but i already knew most of the emotionally painful parts of the book by spoiling it to myself when it first came out a couple years ago. The main appeal is the inner monologues of the two main characters, even if like 50% of this trilogy is basically spending weeks/months trying to go from Point A to Point B, when many other books would have glossed over the details of travel.. but you can really feel the stress as they dwell in their thoughts and struggles.

Madeline Miller’s The Song of Achilles & Circe

Re-Imagining of the Iliad and The Odyssey. Focusing not on the characters of Achilles or Odysseus, but on Petroclus (Achilles’ lover) and Circe the sea nymph witch that Odysseus had an affair and child with.

The Spear of the Stars (Cycle of Galand, Book 5)

Still love Dante and Bleys... This is where they really get into the meat of world building and solving the mysteries of the Arawn Cycle (the book/bible) and peel back the layers of their reality.

Dust (Silo Book 3)

A great ending to a good series, it answers whether or not humanity can or has survived what had caused them to be locked away in the silos.

Blackthorn and Grim (Dreamer’s Pool, Tower of Thorns, Den of Wolves)

I like the premise of the books, the two main characters first seeking out revenge, but end up wanting to become better people due to magic shenanigans.... One part Fantasy, One Part Mystery, One Part Lovestory.

The Dispatcher (Audible Free Book) 

I want a whole series based off this novella. It is John Scalzi so he can write a good story. I had previously read Android’s Dream by him, which it didn’t make it into my top-10 that year, but was still decent, even if the subject matter was a bit gross... The Dispatcher world is a Sci-Fi Noir, not quite Cyberpunk, where people don’t die by anything other than natural causes. The Dispatcher’s job is to kill people before something goes does wrong and the person “resets” to when they where safe and sound.

---- this is the “Above Average” Zone ----

All the Pretty Horses & Blood Meridian: Or the Evening Redness in the West

The master of bleak and depressing fiction. if regular Dark Fiction isn’t enough for you.... there is Cormac McCarthy books. Get use to the “purple prose” that fills up pages with no dialog.

The Golem and the Jinni

Supernatural world of the far past dealing with Edwardian New York and Immigration. It not only is a “fish out of water” story of the two main characters trying to fit in with society but they are among communities that are also new to America and trying to find their own place in the world. There are love subplots but most of those kind of fizzle out.

The Axe and the Throne: Bounds of Redemption Vol. 1.

“Discount First Law” book... it is lacking the dark humor that made TFL series far more entertaining.  This was also the book that was prefaced by warning people about how grim and dark the setting was... Hahahaha. I still found it entertaining none the less, and hope the rest would show up on audible soon.

Black Snow, White Crow (Audible Free Book) 

Another one of those short stories that should have a larger saga to its name. Fantasy Industrial Punk. It has the whole equality role reversal thing going on, it isn’t done quite as well as Left Hand of Darkness (but that book leaned onto the boring side of things).

Stephen King’s IT, Pet Semetary, and Carrie

It’s Stephen King. Classic King. Not much else to say.

Watership Down

Depressing Rabbit Book. Though I did like all the stories and mythology the rabbits had.

Bloody Acquisitions (Fred the Vampire Accountant, Book 3)

A series that is always fun to listen to. I wish the audio books were cheaper because they are rather short.

Lethal White (Cormoran Strike, Book 4)

shuddup, i don’t care if it is Rowling... i have a low-key crush on Cormoran.... he just hits that big-burly tragic-backstory man-shaped soft-spot of mine. These stories are also her “for adults” writings so...  expect more racism and garbage values.

The Eye of the World (Book 1, Wheel of Time)

Classic set up to a long running series, though i am reluctant to go further as the middling books in this series are said to drag out the story too much.... It’s not as self-centered as Wizard’s First Rule and the characters are more relatable and stick to their fantasy tropes. This is the “mold” that other modern fantasy try to subvert by going “darker and edgier.”

The Exorcist

If you like the movie, read the book. There is a lot of back story that the movie wasn’t able to adapt.

---- This is the “AVERAGE, but Still Good”  Zone ---

The Iliad and The Odyssey

Classics. I am still on the hunt for an unabridged version of Jason and the Argonauts story. I also have Virgil’s Aeneid in my wishlist to get too soon.

Phillipa Gregory’s Plantagonate Novels (The Lady of the Rivers, The Red Queen, White Queen, The Kingmaker’s Daughter)

Sometimes it is like reading the same book 5x in a row. other times you end up not liking the previous protagonist in a book you just finished reading because of how the current protagonist sees them from their POV.

Return of the King (Lord of the Rings, Book 3)

Read the other books last year and didn’t get around to this one for a few months.

Something Wicked This Way Comes

Fuck... I’m a janitor... why can’t i afford a house?   If you liked Stephen King’s “IT” go back and read this book.

Alien Franchise Dramatizations: Alien: Sea of Sorrows, Alien: The Cold Forge (Audible Free Book) Alien III (Audible Free Book)

I don’t mind that they all are done with a full cast. Though often I end up wanting to find the actual book and listen to them with just one narrator and descriptions.

The Lion, The Witch, and the Wardrobe (Narnia, Book 1)

I would like to get the rest of the books in this series, but for books that are only 5-7 hours long they want 20$ a book for them. It needs to go into an omnibus.

Stephen Fry’s Victorian Secrets (Audible Free Book)

It’s Stephen Fry... he’s funny and a good narrator.

Wizard’s First Rule (Book 1, Sword of Truth)

I don’t like Richard. He started off alright, but even before he got tortured 2/3rds into the book, i was starting to dislike his personality.  Other than that, the side characters and world are solid, but it was like taking an R-rated movie and cutting it down for TV. There is somethings that are vaguely described when i am use to harder fiction like ASoIaF, The First Law, Dresden, and McCarthy books actually describing those things.

Halloween (2018, movie novel)

Like I said when i first read the book, it would’ve benefited by a second re-write before being published. But, i like the movie and so I liked the book.

Don Quixote

Another classic read. I did find it hilarious that the Author spent a good chunk of the second book complaining about Fanfiction of his own book... in the 1600′s.

The Princess Diarist

I listened this book instead of going to see TROS. worth it.

Smoke Gets in Your eyes: And other Lessons from the Crematorium

Non-Fiction, If you want to know the ins and outs of the funeral business and get told in an informative yet non-clinical way with lots of tidbits and history facts tossed in as well as a semi-autobiographical account of the Author’s life.

--- These Books are “Alright” ---

Frank L. Baum’s Wizard of Oz books

I ligit got into an argument with a 70yo man in a comic book shop about how Canon the other Oz books were post Baum’s death. He was looking for Oz comic books and I brought up reading the first 14 books, and he’s like “There’s over 100 of them” and i was all “but all those are written by somebody else.” and he got all “they are still canon...” 

The Hunchback of Notre Dame

If you want to know about the In//cel ideology in a classic literary form, this fits the bill. So much man pain.

A Christmas Carol (Tim Curry) (Audible Free Book)

Tim Curry, guys.....

The Poetic Edda (Norse God Mythology)

I listened this book twice. I bought two Edda books thinking I’d get some extra content, but no... same book just different production teams and readers. Returned the one with the worst translation.

Treasure Island (Audible Free Book, dramatization)

I need to read the actual book sometime, but i did like the cast and thought they did a good job.

Wally Roux, Quantum Mechanic (Audible Free Book)

A YA coming of age story about diversity and acceptance... with wacky science fiction. 

Carmilla (Audible Free Book, dramatization)

The vampire before Dracula. Victorian Lesbian love story.

Even Tree Nymphs get the Blues (Audible Free Book)

A novella from one of those “love on the Bayou” romance series with supernatural creatures. Could practically take place in the same world of either True Blood, Dresden, or Fred the Vampire Accountant.

Mystwick School of Musicraft (Audible Free Book)

Harry Potter lite. For 10yo girls.

A Grown-up’s Guide to Dinosaurs (Audible Free Book)

I like dinosaurs.

Rivals! Frenemies Who Changed the World (Audible Free Book, Dramatization)

Interesting way on telling us about the Fossil Wars and Puma vs. Adidas.

True-Crime from Audible: Body of Proof (Audible Free Book),   Midnight Son (Audible Free Book), The Demon Next Door (Audible Free Book), Killer By Nature (Audible Free Book)

Why is True-Crime or YA fiction the only halfway-decent things Audible is giving us? But yeah, these are basically the type of reporting that the two journalists from Halloween were trying to do. Where they go around and gather up information about semi-famous cases and present it in a Podcast-like format.

---- Meh... ---

Camp Red Moon (Audible Free Book)

Would’ve been better if they were actually written by R. L. Stein.

More Bedtime Stories for Cynics (Audible Free Book)

No... half of these aren’t written very well.

The Darkwater Bride (Audible Free Book, Dramatization)

The setting is nice, but it is far too .... Soap Opera Dramatic.

Junk (Audible Free Book)

A cross between Alien Invasion and Zombie outbreak, read by John Waters and written as if it was a bad version of a Philip K. Dick Novel.

Rip Off!! (Audible Free Book)

Most of them are duds and boring. I don’t even remember half of them without having to look them up. The two that stood out the most for me where the “Other Darren/Bewitched” and the “Dark and Stormy Night” stories, the rest were rather garbled.

--- Garbage... ---

Dodge and Twist (Audible Free Book, Dramatization)

No, you are not being edgy or kool.

Unread:

Siege Tactics (Spells, Swords, & Stealth. Book 4)

Triumphant (Genesis Fleet, Book 3)

Earthsea (Tehanu and Tales from Earthsea, i am going to re-listen to the first three before i get to these)

Into the Wilds (Warriors, Book 1)

Pout Neuf (Audible Free Book)

House of Teeth (Audible Free Book)

Viva Durant and the Secret of the Silver Buttons (Audible Free Book)

The Other Boleyn Girl (Phillipa Gregory)

[frickengreenfrickyeah]

An Irreverent Intro to the Iliad

A/N:I’ve taken the introduction to the Lombardo translation and condensed it. Any time I says something to the effect of “don’t quote me on this” that means I’ve added my own analysis or thoughts that I cannot back up in any way, so don’t, like, put it in an essay if you don’t plan on doing your own research.

Anyway, you don’t care about that stuff, you came here to read about the Iliad.

It’s really fricken long, so, for the sake of mobile users, everything’s under the cut except for this:

“Rage. Bitch, lemme tell you about the time that Achilles fucked over the entire Greek army by Rage-quitting.”

Timeline for the Noobs 

Ten years ago:

Aphrodite bribes Paris so she can win a beauty contest between herself, Athena, and Hera. Paris’ reward for his ‘heroics’ is Helen

(There’s probably an essay’s worth of symbolism you could dig into here, what with the goddesses all representing different priorities: erotic love, wisdom/justice, and familial duty. I wonder what Paris’ choice reveals about his character?)

There’s some disagreement about whether or not Helen when with Paris willingly

Seeing as literally no other woman in the Iliad (and maybe the entire Cycle? Don’t quote me on that) willingly went with her kidnapper, I’m calling bull on that. Do with that what you will.

Menelaus gets really mad that Paris stole his wife, so he rounds up the Greek army, and they go to war. (It’s worth noting that Athena and Hera are both on his side here.)

Present day:

Agamemnon(Boo), Menelaus’ brother kidnaps a girl. Then he has the balls to get upset that the girl’s father called Apollo’s plague down upon the Greeks until she’s returned

Achilles points out that Agamemnon’s being a dick and people are literally dying because he won’t let go of one girl. Agamemnon says, “Fine. If I have to give up my lady-war-prize, I’m taking yours as recompense.”

Achilles allows Agamemnon to take his girl, then Rage-quits. As consequence, people die.

Hypocrites. Hypocrites everywhere. If you wanna analyze that for an essay, I think there’s plenty to talk about. 

The Theme Worth Giving a Shit About (Because it Drives the Narrative)

Heroes risk their lives on the battlefield in exchange for Prizes

Ie. riches, bitches, and clout

Honor <--> Shame is how they judge the value of others and themselves. Honor wins Prizes, Shame loses Prizes

3 Characters Worth Giving a Shit About (Because They Explore the Aforementioned Theme)

Achilles: Main character. Rage is his thing. Also, pouting. 

His honor is insulted by Agamemnon(Boo) taking away Briseis, his lady war prize. Since war prizes are how their society rewards heroes for risking their lives, Agamemnon is basically saying he doesn’t care of Achilles dies or not.

And that hurts Achilles’ feelings because he knows he’s gonna die. There’s a prophecy about it. 

The only reason he’s fighting is because society conditioned him to believe that Prizes and eternal glory were worth dying for.

Now that he doubts everything he knows, he refuses to fight for the Greeks.

The entire poem is the consequences of his Rage-quit

Agamemnon: fuck this guy

He loses his lady war prize, so he takes Achilles’. Because short-sighted spite is the best motivator.

He and Achilles start the poem in the same place, believing that material goods should equally compensate a loss. Achilles is the one who learns that that’s not how that works.

Agamemnon starts as a dick and ends as a dick. Google Iphigenia if you want to learn more. And that shit he pulls with Cassandra? Major dickbag. Fuck this guy. 

Hector: The Trojan hero, and honestly the only likable guy here. 

He is Achilles’ foil. 

Just like Achilles, he’s separated from society - but, unlike Achilles, it’s not because he rejects their values. It’s because he never questions them.

He’s basically the perfect hero, and he suffers for it:

His son is scared of his war helmet

He can’t stay closer to home to fight defensively because that’s ‘shameful’

And he can’t even stay in the city that long on his breaks because wine and women are too tempting. 

Side Characters to Maybe Give a Fuck About

Patroclus: The most important of the supporting cast, and he’s only in it for, like, maybe a book

Achilles’ BFF and probably more

(Read: Definitely more. If you listen carefully, you can hear me chanting OTP OTP OTP every time you open your book.)

He is Achilles’ double

He never doubts society but supports his bestie’s midlife crisis anyway

His death at the hands of Hector symbolizes Achilles’ death because he was wearing Achilles’ armor at the time

Achilles causes Patroclus’ death btw

When he Rage-quits, he asks Zeus to help the Trojans (because short-sighted spite is the best motivator). Patroclus goes to help the Greeks wearing Achilles’ very recognizable armor, causing Hector to target and kill him

His death redirects Achilles’ Rage at the Trojans instead of the Greeks

Diomedes: a badass fighter

Greater Ajax: a badass fighter

and (I think) the guy who talks sense into Achilles at some point

Ajax the Lesser: a badass fighter (are you sensing a theme in these characters?)

Odysseus: the only smart guy here

The Odyssey is about him btw

The Trojan horse was his idea, according to the Aeneid (and maybe other places? But definitely the Aeneid.)

WTF is an Epic Poem Anyway?

Epic Poem: recounts events with far-reaching historical consequences, sums up the values and achievements of an entire culture, and documents the full variety of the war

Basically, if “’Murica, Fuck Yeah” sums up America, then the Iliad sums up Ancient Greece

(Actually, Hamilton is a better comparison, but I needed to make a joke. Fite me.)

That “full variety” thing is why Book 2 and a couple other places just list off a bunch of ships or leaders and their dads. That shit is boring. Skip it. 

But also, that ‘full variety’ thing is what makes other parts of the story so interesting. Homer will sum up a dude’s life story right before he kills them or some shit. It magnifies the scale of the narrative by showing how insignificant one person’s experience is - no one person can stop the war.

That’s what makes Achilles’ story even more powerful --> because his impact on the war is significant. His Rage controls the ebb and flow of it. 

He can’t stop the war though. No one can. 

The Gods are Petty as Fuck

Homeric gods look/act like humans, but they’re different mainly because of two things:

1. They can’t die.

That means they treat the events of the war less seriously than the mortals do.

2. The gods know about fate

To the modern reader, it seems like the humans have no agency, but that’s not really the case

Knowing fate is a bit like knowing the plot of a movie. It gives insight into a character’s actions that would otherwise seem random.

By reading this poem, you’re basically a god. Don’t let it go to your head. (But, hey, there’s a reason I’m majoring in this shit)

Bards like Homer would more directly be gods because they changed and adapted the story as they told it, just like the gods influence human actions in the story.

Don't quote me on that tho

Character choices are usually doubly motivated - by the human, and by the gods

Ex: Achilles chooses not to kill Agamemnon because Athena tells him not to.

This is personifying the literal thought process he had so that the reader understands what’s going through his head.

Fate doesn’t force anyone to act out of character --> fate is the consequence of their life choices

The gods not caring about death and his own lack of foresight is what Achilles messes up on

He asks Zeus to help him get revenge on the Greeks because he assumes Zeus cares about that sort of thing, but Zeus is bigger than that.

That leads Patroclus’ death, btw.

The “Enduring Heart” Shit

Achilles is really butthurt that Agamemnon wronged him

The lesson he has to learn is that even if material goods can’t make up for losses, there’s no other option --> you can’t bring people back from the dead, so you have to move on

That’s the Enduring Heart shit

also, if you abstract that concept it sounds kinda like entropy to me (Don’t quote me on that tho)

He learns that lesson by feeling pity for Priam (Hector’s dad) instead of perpetuating the Rage Train

And, hey, that Enduring Heart shit is a lesson that all of us could take to heart. None of us want to die, but it’s gonna happen. Maybe that’s not fair, but throwing a temper tantrum isn’t going to change anything. Really, the only way to avoid being miserable is to embrace our mortality so we can appreciate life while we have it

don’t quote me on that tho

In a nutshell, Achilles has to accept his mortal-ness. Otherwise there’s a lot of unnecessary suffering. 

That’s why we don’t need to see him die in the Iliad even though everyone makes such a big deal about the prophecy about his death. His journey was completed as soon as he found pity in himself instead of Rage - essentially rejecting the godly side of himself (oh yeah, I forgot to mention. His mom is a goddess) and embracing his mortality. 

because gods don’t have to deal with death, they can Rage all they want, remember?

Also, if he never dies, he can’t be reunited with Patroclus. 

OTP OTP OTP

You could probably write an essay about how Achilles died as soon as Patroclus did.

Honestly Boring Historical Context (That might be interesting if you’re a nerd like me?

The poem was basically historical fantasy even when it was first written. There are gods and super strength and shit

Greek History Over-Simplified: The Mycanaean Period was prosperous but ended suddenly. The Dark Ages of Greece followed, and we don’t know much about what happened during that because they forgot the written word was a thin. 

The events of the poem probably take place during the Mycanaean Period because they use bronze weapons. 

But warfare is described from more of a Dark Ages perspective. Like, they don’t use chariots the right way

Which suggests that chariots were part of the source material, then the Dark Ages made people forget how they were supposed to be sued, so the bards just kinda made shit up to explain their presence. (Don’t quote me on that tho)

The Oral Tradition of the poem means that this story was told thousands of times over hundreds (thousands?) of years. So the narrative is hones at shit.

it has the sculpted body of an Olympic athlete. Each muscle toned to do a specific job and everything works perfectly together to accomplish the sporty feat of interest. Every verse is packed with character, setting, plot, and cultural significance

Except for that Catologue of Ships shit. Boooo boring ships.

There were probably lots of other versions of the poem, but Homer told it best. His version was written down as soon as the written word was (re)invented

Side Note that wasn’t in Lombardo’s Intro

The Iliad and Odyssey are both parts of a larger body of work known as the Epic Cycle 

(The Aeneid is basically Caesar Augustus-insert fanfiction at that, btw. Virgil was a satirical fanboy and I’m living for it.)

Characters and events are introduced with the assumptions that the reader already knows their importance

But we only have fragments of the rest of the Cycle today because it was either never written down or the manuscripts were lost

I’m looking at you, Burned Library of Alexandria

*sad fiddle music plays in the background

Videos That I Learned Shit From (Only, like, the first two links are relevant to the topic at hand, btw)

Basic Plot: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=faSrRHw6eZ8

More about the Epic Cycle: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G3bn0eKt4Rw 

Iphigenia: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ifFsKCrH3GM 

Oresteia: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9kpGhivh05k             

The Odyssey: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A-3rHQ70Pag&index=4&list=PLDb22nlVXGgfwG1qbOtNgu897E_ky_8To (Also, this story is my favorite of the Epic Cycle)

The Aeneid: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QRruBVFXjnY&list=PLDb22nlVXGgfwG1qbOtNgu897E_ky_8To&index=5  

Ancient Greek History: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mzGVpkYiJ9w&index=2&list=PLDb22nlVXGgexsbafIwirG6Tk9uww9dSW    

And, yeah, these videos are all from the same channel. I’m a basic bitch and a ho for not leaving my comfort zone. Fite me. 

Honestly, if anyone has other sources, let me know. Youtube history/video essays are my shit.

I hope this was helpful.

[clodiuspulcher]

Can I ask what draws you to Agamemnon? He's often kind of a difficult figure to grapple with. Sincere question btw, not meant to sound mean I swear :)

NO NO this isn’t mean at all it’s uh. yeah I know it’s an unpopular Take / Opinion and I really do … care deeply about Agamemnon as a character, so thanks for giving me a chance to explain! it’s complicated, he’s complicated… This is gonna get long

I: APPEARANCE Let’s first put the shallow aspects on the table: he’s big, he’s powerful, he’s My Type (physically), I’m gay. This never comes through in film adaptations (although you know what? 1962 Electra Agamemnon comes close, although he’s overshadowed by the hot Aegisthus) but look at how he’s described in the Iliad: He’s compared to 3 gods, canonically Agamemnon is the most handsome man Priam’s EVER seen in his like one million years of life (a list of men which includes Aeneas , Hector, etc). (this post). When Priam says he’s “Every inch a king”, baby, you know what that means-Anyway , @kashuan‘s art is VERY good for conveying how I imagine Agamemnon based on these descriptions. and he’s drawn like exactly my type there. It’s a lot to reckon with.He’s big. He has big arms and big thighs and could kill me if he wanted and he’s powerful and his aristeia is badass and i’m gay. thanks. II: PERSONALITY Now this part is. more about Agamemnon’s character. first, Agamemnon in the Iliad is in fact deeply flawed- he’s imperious and arrogant and shortsighted and short-tempered, he’s stubborn and selfish and ALL OF THE THINGS PEOPLE HAVE SAID HE IS but there’s also a complexity to his character that tends to get flattened - I think because Agamemnon’s at his worst in book 1, people adhere to this AWFUL first impression and don’t bother to look beneath the surface / take the rest of his behavior / his character into account / use this as the baseline of their understanding, but there IS MUCH MORE to him than that behavior even in the Iliad itself, as detailed in THIS POST. He’s a powerful warrior in his own right, and his failings reflect both the internal flaws of his character and the weight of his responsibilities; we see his concern for his men, for the army, the people, in books 4 and 10 (when he can’t sleep because of his anxiety about his men, about Hector). He DOES however, learn and become better, he grows, he’s dynamic: he and Achilles finally make up (book 19! book 23! They’re good now!) and the Odyssey also ends with their ghosts talking as friends.

(Side note I wonder how this works out when Agamemnon’s son kills Achilles’s son but… that’s for another day).

There’s complexity in Agamemnon’s characterization in the tragedies as well, each tragedian has a different portrait of Agamemnon but he’s never one-dimensional.Euripides’ Hecuba has Agamemnon as concerned about his image and his reputation, anxious (and almost insecure) about his authority, but also concerned with justice and the rule of law, even towards one’s enemies. Sophocles’ Ajax portrays an imperious, proud, stubborn Agamemnon who refuses to realize he’s in the wrong but is able to be convinced by the council of Odysseus and eventually, again, comes to an understanding. Seneca’s Trojan Women shows Agamemnon as a Stoic voice of Reason, urging Pyrrhus not to be too violent/hubristic in their victory, and I love both the presentation of Agamemnon as a tired old man wanting to go home and the sort of man who gets into arguments with teenagers about war crimes. As usual, Seneca excels at this subtlety of characterization, this is like the epitome of the Dichotomy of Agamemnon, sympathetic and infuriating, a good leader and a stubborn, proud man, stoic and short-tempered, as present in the Iliad, is here too, and I love it , and him. Seneca’s Agamemnon almost reverses this (HE REALLY SAYS “What can a victor fear”) but I still love that play, and there’s something to be said for the characterization of Agamemnon as someone who learned ABSOLUTELY nothing from victory.

Overall, it’s true that we get, mainly, a portrait of a hard, ruthless, powerful, embittered man- remember how he destroys that one guy Menelaus wanted to save in the Iliad - but he has a sort of “aggressive charisma” as Kashuan once put it and I REALLY see it, and honestly that in itself has some sort of an appeal to me. But with this portrait of his personality, his softer aspects, the moments of gentleness we see, are more striking, they really stand out and indicate the extent of his feelings. In the iliad, for example, we clearly see he loves Menelaus and while he’s almost laughably over-protective (MORE ON THIS LATER), his care for his brother is evident, touching, especially juxtaposed with his shortsighted selfishness. Just look at what happens in Book 4, when Menelaus is barely wounded and Agamemnon is practically writing his eulogy. Right afterwards, also, “Noble Agamemnon showed no reluctance, no cowardice or hesitation, only eagerness for the fight where men win glory”- he rushes in to fight (but not before first taking out his anxiety on his men by demanding more from them. Cannot do anything appealing / good without mitigating it with irritating behavior. love this fool). It takes him like 9 books to finally apologize to Achilles but he defends Menelaus from Nestor’s reproach in book 10, is anxious about Menelaus being in danger if he’s picked to go on a night raid with Diomedes (HERE) and is endearingly not-subtle about it, frets over him in book 4, when he’s wounded, etc.

The love for his family is something that continually stands out and is perhaps his main “redeeming” trait. In the Odyssey, as mentioned, he ask Odysseus desperately about Orestes with heart-rending choice of words especially when one considers Orestes’s Actual Fate: “Come tell me, in truth, have you heard if my son is still alive, maybe in Orchomenus or sandy Pylos, or in Menelaus’ broad Sparta: that my noble Orestes is not yet dead?”. Agamemnon’s no longer a king- he’s a worried father, he regrets the most not being able to see Orestes before he’s killed; it is this pain, of not being able to be a father to his children, which seems to cut the most deeply, which he speaks of multiple times to Odysseus. Then they just cry for a while, with each other. (I like these tender aspects hidden in a big mean man.. but I also like his big meanness).

the Tragedies take this to another level, of course, to drive home the PATHOS required for his death to have an impact but his love of his family is very much on display there. Iphigenia in Aulis in particular provides us with some agonizing demonstrations of this love: Iphigenia reminisces about an exceptionally tender moment in their relationship, when she was young (you used to ask me, “I wonder, my darling, will I get to see you married one day, married and settled happily in your husband’s home, your life ever blossoming, making me proud of you?” And I’d touch your chin, my father, hang from your beard, father, like I’m doing now and say, “and what about you, father, will I get to see you, father, an old man, visiting me at my house, ready for me to repay you for your hard work in raising me?”) an image hard to reconcile with the merciless violence and stubborn arrogance Agamemnon displays in the Iliad (BUT AGAIN, THAT’S THE APPEAL). Clytemnestra assumes he’s crying because he’s sad to see Iphigenia leave them, Agamemnon’s messenger tells him the arrival of his family will cheer him up: even his subordinates know how important they are to him.

I’d need a whole nother post to talk about his relationship with Clytemnestra but please peruse these crumbs I picked off the ground (HERE). they Had something, tbh the tragedy ONLY WORKS if they did and I will DIE on this hill. In Aeschylus, Clytemnestra calls Orestes the “mutual pledge of their love”, he calls her a “great-hearted woman”, she shirks in Aulis at his curt, demanding tone towards her, noting it as something out of character, she takes charge anyway, knows he can’t or won’t actually force her not to be involved in the Iphigenia marriage preparations-All of this creates an image of a man whose imperious, ruthless, stubborn character is balanced with a surprising capacity for tenderness, a genuine fondness and love for the members of his family, which makes the fact that his hand, albeit forced, aids in its destruction, that much more devastating.III: PSYCHOLOGY/HISTORY

Where things get especially interesting for me, character-wise, is when one thinks about his lineage, his past, and his childhood with respect to his current character. This section is about the House of Atreus in general.

Agamemnon clearly bears the scars of his environment: he was born into the House of Atreus and IMO that informs everything he says and does, all his thoughts and feelings, the way he perceives both the world and his place in it. Seneca’s Thyestes is a horrific portrait of what Agamemnon (and Menelaus’s) childhoods must have been like, ATREUS is their father, they were old enough during this event to almost be accomplices which means they’re clearly old enough to remember it. Speaking of that, Atreus isn’t worried that participating in his god-crime schemes will turn his sons evil because, in his mind, they were born evil (Ne mali fiant times? nascuntur. God GOD). Agamemnon and Menelaus grow up in a nightmare house, adjacent to atrocity, under the almost comically cruel hand of Atreus who sincerely believed his sons inherited said cruelty as if its on the same chromosome as the “house-curse” gene. It’s genuinely a miracle Agamemnon and Menelaus grew up to be functional fucking human beings, in my opinion. It also gives a lot more weight to his relationship with Menelaus and the hard imperious cast of his character; their bond was forged in fire, Agamemnon likely protected Menelaus from the worst of Nightmare House being the older brother, and being as protective as he is. There’s this one Iliad adaptation, I can’t think of it off the top of my head though, where when Agamemnon’s freaking out about Menelaus being Barely Wounded he says “don’t die… for you are all I have” and that’s absolutely  how I think about their relationship in this context- Menelaus WAS all he had for so long, they clung to each other, they preserved their humanity in the face of horror BECAUSE OF each other.

But functional like.. .for a given value of “function”. Agamemnon is clearly deeply affected by these events, the weight of the Curse of the House of Atreus clearly impacts him. Take Iphigenia in Aulis, where he says “each one is born with his bitterness waiting for him”, the fact that a Son of Atreus would say that, I think, speaks to the innate, unspeakable fear of the certain destruction of his world, of the tragedy that awaits him, at his own hands, of the House-Curse waiting perched on his shoulder to strike just when he thought he’d created something impenetrable. The tragedy of Iphigenia in Aulis is Agamemnon’s realization that he has locked himself into this, that he has no other choice (see: this post about the Odysseus impact, there is in fact a point when it’s inevitable, although he still made the first move which makes it even WORSE he created this, etc) and all he can do at this point is watch as the life he so carefully built for himself and his family collapses around him, just like he must have always dreaded it would. (Also in the Iliad It’s Agamemnon who says “We must toil, in accord with the weight of sorrow Zeus loaded us with at birth” and that reminds me of this aspect of him too: Good Things Never Last, Bad Things Never Die, etc.)

It’s made clear that the story of Atreus and Thyestes is widespread, familiar; Teucer in Sophocles’ Ajax and Neoptolemus in Seneca’s Trojan Women both call out Agamemnon for trying to reference his lineage as a source of authority because it is a HORRIFIC lineage. “I know about the famous family of Atreus and Thyestes”, Neoptolemus says. And THEREIN LIES A CONFLICT: Agamemnon’s sense of self comes from his authority, his kingship, his position of power and his social status as a member of the nobility, of the class of royalty BUT. It’s all undercut by the fact that this power, authority, indeed his very identity is based in cruelty, violence, and crime; Agamemnon is descended from the most ignoble nobility, which he knows all too well.

It’s Interesting that Agamemnon’s relationship with his identity, status, family, power is brought up in Ajax, of all plays, primarily concerned with the destruction of Ajax’s identity- reminding Agamemnon of the crimes of his house genuinely cuts him down. I see Agamemnon as a man who genuinely fears his past, who dreads the legacy of his father and in his desperation creates a crisis for himself (as happens in tragedy).

We (I) laugh at Agamemnon “forgetting” about the god-crime shit before he pulls rank by referencing his Authority and Status but there’s something in Agamemnon continually being owned by forgetting about the House….  Agamemnon wants to distance himself from the “legacy” he inherited from Atreus, but he can’t without disavowing his power, his authority, his identity. Whether he likes it or not (he does Not), this is fundamental to who he is. I feel like that knowledge too lurks in his mind, rises to the forefront occasionally at his lowest points-

Clytemnestra in Aeschylus’s Agamemnon pretty clearly sees him / his actions as the next link in the god-crime family chain, a continuation of the house -curse, heir to his father’s throne and his crimes, hence her belief that killing him is the only way to end it/ stop the cycle of violence (spoiler she is wrong but there’s another post coming eventually about how they are Very Similar Characters short version the Etruscans Understand).

IN short, I think there’s a lot of complexity in Agamemnon people overlook, or don’t get to see since they don’t read the peripheral plays. Agamemnon seems to me a man in conflict with himself, a Man of Contradictions, who defines himself by his authority and status while fearing the source of it, whose devotion to his family contrasts with the horror of his childhood, and with his own agonizing role in its destruction, a man who willfully ignores or cannot bring himself to fully interact with the legacy of Atreus, who tries to distance himself from the crimes of his house and the cruelty of his father while being reminded of both every time he’s called by the epithet Atreides.

[theresahorseauforthat]

Space Iliad AU (Voltron/Epic Poetry)

It's the Iliad but it's in space.

'But Disco,' certain friends may say, 'I was under the impression that you'd never watched Voltron.'

That is correct.

However, it started showing up on my dash around the time I read the Odyssey for class, and somehow this au was created.  As such, this will probably contradict Voltron canon wildly.  The show is, if you will, the giant, hollow, mechanical man I'm using to sneak Greeks into your city.

Season 1

Five 'friends' from A Fancy Military School I Have Yet To Name go wandering the desert at night and find a giant lion which whisks them into space.  There, they awaken an alien named Helen, who informs them that the universe is in danger, they must save it, yada yada you know the drill.

The five dudes ARE

Agammemnon, the Black Paladin: the worst.  The utter worst. Menelaus' brother, Achilles self-declared nemesis.  A smug jerk.

Achilles, the Red Paladin: A dumb hotheaded kid.  He's gonna fight Agammemnon.  His heart's in the right place and he has good ideals, but he can generally be trusted to act on them in the least helpful manner.

Diomedes, the Yellow Paladin: A badass.  The first to develop a strong bond with his lion (who is definitely not a mechanical version of Athena, not at all, why on earth would you think that).  Good friends with Menelaus.  Part of the stealth team.

Menelaus, the Green Paladin: not very good with feelings.  Agammemnon's brother, Diomedes' friend.  Huge crush on Helen.  He's very bro-y but he's a good guy.

Odysseus, the Blue Paladin: a low key genius.  Team strategist and the other half of the stealth team.  Can be a bit of an asshole when he's in the middle of a Plan.  Would like to get back to his girlfriend.

And then, of course, Helen: head of the team, wicked smart, weirdly good mimic.  Huge crush on Menelaus.

They're fighting the Galra, except that I accidentally made all the Trojans some level of relatable so it's anyone's guess as to who exactly is threatening the universe.

There's

Paris: the main antagonist-ish.  He's a dumb dramatic teenager trying to impress his big brother.

Hector: the big brother.  Not impressed.  Very Tired.

Cassandra: A prophet of doom who's generally ignored.  A little bit done with everyone, particularly her brothers.

(Aeneas will do something at some point I have no idea where he fits in shush)

The other plot focuses on the Fancy Military School I Have Yet To Name, which in the wake of five students fucking off to the stars claims that they are all dead, cause, yah know, that's a good strategy.  However, they've got two students on their case (more like one student and the friend she's dragging along):

Penelope: A hacker and a fiber crafter.  Brilliant, driven, and extremely suspicious.  She's gonna find out what happened to her boyfriend even if she has to put up with the slimeballs in the computer room.

Clytemnestra: A disaster of a human being, but in a good way, for the most part.  Don't get on her bad side.  Agammemnon's ex.  Not really sure if she wants to find him.

So the Space crew is pretty much just playing out the Iliad.  Helen and Menelaus flirt like crazy, Diomedes gets an alien girlfriend named Briseis, and Achilles gets an alien boyfriend named Patroclus who somehow ends up on the ship with them.  Agammemnon continues to be awful. 

At some point (maybe midway?) Helen gets captured by Paris.  In return, Agammemnon kidnaps Cassandra, which literally no one else thinks is a good idea.  Agammemnon does Something ( I have several ideas for this, depending on how dark I decide to go) that pushes Achilles completely over the edge, and he decides he won't fight in the upcoming battle.

At this point the timeline takes a turn for the incomprehensible, but you all probably know how it goes from here.  Patroclus steps up to bat and fills in as the Red Paladin.  I'm a big softie so he doesn't actually die, but only almost dies (same for Achilles). 

Through some kind of sci-fi magic that I haven't figured out yet, Penelope and Clytemnestra not only figure out where the others went but manage to get there.  Pen and Odysseus get a two minute reunion before he goes off to implement his big plan of making the enemy think they've abandoned Voltron.  At some point Agammemnon is disposed of somehow (again, depending on how dark this gets, there are several versions).  They defeat the Galra/Trojans and go back to the ship, at which point they realize "Oh fuck we lost Odysseus."

Season 2

Paladin shuffling time!  Menelaus is the new Black Paladin, Clytemnestra takes his old role as the Green Paladin, and Penelope fills in as the Blue.  On this end, it's fairly chill, with storylines mostly centered around personal issues.  Clytemnestra and Menelaus deal with the fallout of their relationships with Agammemnon, Cassandra (who's still there for some reason idk) makes some friends and finds people who believe her, Menelaus struggles with leadership, Penelope tries to find her place.

On the not chill end of things

Odysseus is having a fun time.

I've written so much already that I'm not gonna detail his adventures here, but he sure is having them.  And would like not to be.  Eventually he gets home, there's more Paladin musical chairs in which Clytemnestra and Menelaus switch lions, and Penelope stays on as Blue Paladin. 

Season 3, in a timeline where Clytemnestra kills Agammemnon:

An alien kid comes to take revenge on the current Black Paladin for killing the former Black Paladin.  Diomedes and Yellow kick start a legal system.

[staylavendertea]

High School Iliad Au Head Canons

So like dodge ball right-

Patroclus is not very happy

Achilles is hyped because he a sportsy boy

Briseis somehow finds a way to sit the class out on the bleachers

This makes Pat grumpier

Odysseus and Diomedes are also on their team-- So is Agamemnon but he's an asshole and is just going to stand there-

The other team belongs to Hector, Paris, and other people I am too lazy to remember- Helen's off in art class away from the chaos- The poor girl suffers

Game starts and Odysseus just stands in the back on his phone

Patrcolus just wants to hide or die at this point

Hector is getting cocky

Totally throws a ball really hard

and poor Patty doesn't have dodging as an ability either

Patroclus never realized getting hit in the stomach would make you want to throw up so badly-

Hector is like "IIIIIII fuckeddddd uppppppp- ACHILLES- DON'T GIVE ME THAT LOOK- I WAS AIMING FOR DIOMEDES-"

Diomedes is like "wtf"

Briseis takes Patroclus to the nurse, kinda happy she can miss her last few periods

Achilles is -pissed-

Nobody messes with his baby and just gets away with it

Gym teacher Aries knows what's about to happen and is like "hell yes"

Assistant teacher Chiron is like "Achilles- I get you care about Patroclus, but there is no brutal forrrrrrr- and he's not listening"

Hector gets the hardest dodgeball to the face totally knocking him down

Paris is laughing his ass off like an ass until Diomedes lightly throws a ball at him and Paris panics and flinches like he's the bitch who's about to be slapped

Hector is lying down in pain and disappointment "you weakling-" as he feels to make sure he didn't lose any teeth-

Chiron is sighing as Aries is screaming for a fight- "Achilles you can go check up on him if you want" Chiron knows he shouldn't be surprised but still- Child- Chill

So Achilles goes to visit his boo-

Hector sits the rest of the game out

The game goes on and Achilles' team is losing and Diomedes just got out and is like "gdi"-Only Odysseus left-

Just now putting his phone away

Cracks his knuckles and gets all badass "Ready to play children" and kicks all ass

I have a really random and unable to be explained love for Odysseus- Don't judge me-

Achilles has to be dragged to his next class by Briseis from Patroclus-

Achilles has the face of a kicked dog

7th period finally ends

Achilles is on his way to his Patty and Hector just wraps his arm around his neck in a weird side bro hug thing

Achilles face is squished and feirce

Hector's like "hi hello stop being pissed at me- It was an accident blah, blah, blah-" Odysseus sees a connection and takes a picture

Sends Patroclus a zoomed in picture of Achilles' face next to a picture of an also extremely pissed off individual who so happens to be a cat

With the text "I don't see a difference under it"

Patroclus laughs because his adorable ass boyfriend when pissed off looks extremely like a pissed off cat

Also ow because paIN

I apologize these suck- Just take it-