#ik some ppl see certain ships as problematic

[l4deeznuts]

one of the things i love about nellis is how it really doesn’t seem too unrealistic of a relationship

nick and ellis are what most people would consider your average men who would probably realistically be straight (obviously nick having an ex wife, ellis being attracted to zoey)

but as they travel deeper into the apocalypse they become closer, and this really doesn’t just apply to nick and ellis. all four survivors are people that most likely would not have anything to do with each other in normal everyday life. but here they are, a family now basically. nick even admits that the other three are the first people he has ever trusted in his entire life— and knowing nick’s character, that definitely means something.

so going back to him and ellis’ relationship, it isn’t entirely unrealistic that something could happen. when you’re in a literal end of the world scenario, all bets are off the table. anything and everything could happen.

it’s not too far fetched being straight and then all of a sudden questioning your sexuality, it happens quite literally all the time. so imagine trusting your literal life with someone every second of every day, building a genuine connection with them.. one day you might just be sitting there and the realization of feelings hit you, or you could have sudden sexual urges, etc. normal human emotions and functions right?

and this doesn’t just solely apply to nellis, any l4d ship could potentially work because of what i call the end of the world theory lmao. i love it because there’s just enough lore in the game and characters to have a proper foundation, but leaves it empty enough to where majority of headcanons and whatnot could probably work in canon, if that makes sense!

[ashdumpsterpile]

I know you talk abou st*cky in the interracial ships stuff, but can we talk about st*ny? Iron husbands is literally right there, but I also always sees Rhodey as Tonys moral support only. And ik Tony is very shippable with most characters, but the fact his ship is Rhodey is one of the lowest ships in ao3 (ironstrange, winteriron and god forbid stark*r all had more fics in ao3).. It's pretty telling this side also has racism problems...

I'll go ahead and answer this here, but letting y'all know that I do have a marvel sideblog if you want to hit me up there (@themarvelarchives).

Hey, I'm going to ramble for a good minute.

So after I posted my very incoherent, controversial take on St*cky vs SamBucky, there were a ton of ppl who came onto anon saying that St*cky shippers were racist. I think I only answered a few, but y'all were pretty insistent on it. I personally have not observed that St*cky shippers are so I'm not calling anyone out on that side of the fandom for that.

I also did not call out anyone on this side of the fandom bc that's not what my meta was about. I think I mentioned maybe once or twice in the whole post that there was underlying racist in the fandom, but since you asked, we can talk about it here.

Covert Bigotry In Fandom Spaces.

To understand what's going on in the MCU, we have to first look at what I call "woke-queer" fandom.

So "Woke-Queer" Spaces is the phenomenon where certain fandom members like to call ppl out on their bigotry, while covertly harboring their own queerphobia/racism/etc. An example of this that we're all familiar with is TERFS and how they like to claim that they are progressive and woke, while also claiming that trans women are fake and trans men are sexist.

How this translates to fandom, however, is the hypocrisy that is cancellation and callout culture.

For example, Supernatural in particular is a fandom that likes to call out the writers on their homophobia and racism, and yet, somehow, the fandom is chalk full of homophobia and racism. If you want to read more about this, here is a truly excellent article from the perspective of a queer woman of color.

Moving on, I've also talked in a previous meta post, on the internalized acephobia that exploded in 2019 after Good Omens was released. Rather than reiterate everything I said in that post, I'll just leave it at this: the controversy in the Good Omens fandom can be summed up by the fact that queer audiences are claiming that Ineffable Husbands is the wrong kind of queer. The hypocrisy oozes off the screen, doesn't it?

A final way this viably translates to fandom, is in how the Doctor Who fandom evolved over time.

So Steven Moffat takes over as head writer and showrunner in 2010. It's a new series, a new Doctor, a new Tardis, and new branding. He steps up the action, changes the color grating, and raises the stakes. Women are sexier, the Doctor is smarter (and more of an asshole, but that's another meta post), and every companion comes with their own impossible mystery that makes them Special™.

Series 5-10 got tons of woke points for having lesbian characters, an episode where the Doctor is homoerotic with James Corden, and an underlying trans narrative with the Master's reincarnation. What a lot of people forget, however, is that his series was incredibly sexiest, incredibly lesbian/biphobic, and basically turned the Doctor into everyone's fantasy sex-object.

This, unfortunately, brought out the worst of the fandom. There was RTD Era vs Moffat Era wars exploding in certain corners, TenxRose shippers vs ElevenxRiver shippers.

What does this have to do with covert racism in fandom cultures though?

Hnnngng ok, so back in RTD era's we get Martha Jones, the Actual Best Companion On The Entire Show. Except for the fact, of course, that she is written to be in love with the doctor. She's a brilliant character--smart, sassy, flawed, funny, flirtatious--and her entire plotline is reduced down to a school-girl crush on a white man.

She doesn't do well with fans, they scrap her after one season.

We move on to Donna Noble (The Other Actual Best Companion On The Entire Show) and RTD's era ends with them scraping her too and regenerating David Tennant's Doctor.

It will be five more series (not seasons, SERIES) until Doctor Who will have another black companion--who gets extra points for being gay--only to fall victim to "bury your gays" at the end of the season (but not really bc no one stays dead on Doctor Who).

The fandom's reception of Martha Jones was historically bad. The comparisons to her predecessor, Rose Tyler, were rampant and everyone was finding a reason to hate her.

The fandom's reception to Bill Potts was also historically bad, as everyone was screaming that she was being written for more "woke points" and that they wanted Clara back.

Fandom has a historically bad reputation of being problematic and, I would argue, the majority of it has to do with these toxic undertones of bigotry that slip under the radar. "Woke-queer" spaces, as I call them, are these instances above where spaces that claim to be inclusive of gender/orientation/race are covertly bigoted.

Marvel and Cancelling

Now is an excellent time to talk about the MCU.

Anthony Mackie (Sam Wilson) has recently come under a lot of criticism from fandom members for shutting down shipper speculation.

"The idea of two guys being friends and loving each other in 2021 is a problem because of the exploitation of homosexuality. [...] something as pure and beautiful as homosexuality has been exploited by people who are trying to rationalize themselves."

I can't find the rest of the quote, but Mackie goes on further to say that it was important to him to portray "a sensitive, masculine figure" without insinuating that there was romance involved.

Woke culture lost it's shit. Everyone was suddenly claiming that Mackie was calling them exploitative for shipping a gay ship as a queer audience, which could not have been further from the case.

Mackie actually makes some very excellent points in that sensitivity is not gay/queer. Woke culture loves to rag on Toxic Masculinity, but the minute someone plays a character who is loving and sensitive with no queer narrative in mind, they are immediately canceled.

What Am I On About

Okay, let's actually address what your ask was about, Nonnie. You pointed out--rather truthfully--that it is unfair to call-out racism on one side of the fandom, while ignoring it on the other side.

Well, I've gone back through my St*cky vs. SamBucky analysis (which is incoherent at best, I apologize for that) and I see maybe once instance where I called out fandom members for being racist. Here's what I had to say about racism:

"[...] Iron Husbands is a rarepair, probably because it���s an interracial ship."

"[there is] nothing wrong with shipping two white men, but it does become a problem when you ignore/bash POC/interracial ships to the determinant of your own white ship."

And then there was the post you brought up where I addressed interracial ships in the fandom. That one is probably more relevant to this topic, to be honest, as I actually addressed fandom racism there. I assume that your reason for bringing up Stony is because it's a ship that is more relevant to my side of the fandom, HOWEVER, the reason I highlighted Stucky instead was because I was comparing the fact that they've both been around the same amount of time and are relationships that feature the protagonist and their best friend.

You brought up St*ny in the ask, however, so I'm going to talk about St*ny for a minute.

As someone who never has nor will ship St*ny, it never even occurred to me that some of the problem behind the Iron Husbands tag being so small is because everyone ships the white, boring ship. You brought up a very valid point, but because I was never in that part of the fandom, I can't really speak to any possible underlying racism there, besides what I've already said above.

I would be interested in hearing a St*ony shipper or ex-St*ony shippers thought on this, but sadly I don't know any. If you have any more thoughts regarding this, Nonnie, pls drop back into my inbox.

You do make some excellent points in this ask though, and I would like to talk about racism on my side of the fandom.

So back to Mackie and his Twitter cancellation. Notice that Disney made him address the rumors and not his co-star, Sebastian Stan. Anthony Mackie is put on blast and made to answer fan demands and receives backlash, while Sebastian Stan gets to fly under the rader. This is not, by the way, a criticism of Stan, but instead of the blatant racism Disney has been displaying over the past few years.

How this ties in with the rest of my post has to do with my "woke-queer" spaces bit. The outcry across the MCU fandom over Mackie was swift and unforgiving. He was cancelled on charges of homophobia and bigotry--all the while these same fans turn a blind eye to any queer interpretation of other interracial ships and discourse in their own fandom.

The racism that I'm speaking about, of course, is an almost passive racism. Of course if you don't ship a specific ship for reasons other than their race, it's perfectly fine. It's okay not to ship Iron Husbands or SamBucky or any other interracial fandom ships. However, the distinct lack of shippers in the fandom IS telling because there are people who would ship that exact ship if not for the fact that one of men is black.

I don't have much more to say about this except to thank you for bringing it up and for listening to my long rambling post.

(Feel free to bug me about Tony Stark, MCU ships, MCU Meta and anything you want to talk me about on this blog and @themarvelarchives.)

[ididntlookback]

After i read BoO i was like “well that sucked” and i kinda lost my love in the pjo series until now after re reading all the books, so after a few months back in the pjo/hoo fanbase after 4 years, i’d like to share some of the differences i’ve noticed:

So much fanart now??? 4 years ago we all were like 11 years old and weren’t very good at art/didn’t do digital art so we really relied on viria, but now that everyone is a bit older there is so?? much?? good fanart??? and i’m blessed.

People r so woke now. Like i see so many posts about people calling out character whitewashing or talking about problematic treatment of gay characters from the fandom and whatnot, and all that stuff wasn’t talked about years ago bc we were pre teens n not smart.

SO. MUCH. CHARACTER. ANALYSIS. like people are really diving into the characters and noticing stuff about them that i didn’t realize all those years back. Like ppl talk about their backstories and how it relates to how they act and why characters did certain things and all that. Now that i’m older and have re read the books i really realized that these characters are so much more 3 dimensional than i first thought (especially annabeth mkay i realized so much stuff about her character in pjo that i didn’t the first time i read the series and i really love her okay but i’ll make a whole nother post about that) and i’m glad ppl are talking about it. 

somewhere in those 4 years i was gone Pernico turned to percico?? like i don’t ship but i remember the ship name defiantly being pernico. why did it change? how did it change??? 

this relates to how fans are much more woke now, but i love how hated the “i’m not your type?” joke has become. Like now that we’re older we realize that it wasn’t percy being a dick, it was just him being shocked but quickly getting over it and being the lovable n supporting guy he is, we’re like ‘oh worm? that joke is stupid’ 

i’ve defiantly seen the HoO hype cool down and a lot more people have reverted to their old PJO ways. Like the first series is talked about much more now (which i’m happy about cuz i really prefer that one to the second one) and i feel l ike everyone just low key has agreed on the fact that HoO wasn’t the best. People talk about the hoo characters (whom i love) but not really the plot. 

Much more ship tolerance??? like if u even as much as said the word ‘perachel,’ you would get killed, but i see a lot more ppl shipping it now and ppl r a bit more chill with it. 

Relates back to the character analysis point, but i like how ppl aren’t ust hating on octavian without giving it another thought. like ppl still don’t like him, but i’m glad ppl are diving deeper into his character and talking about how he maybe didn’t deserve such a harsh fate and that there are things that explain his actions. 

Years ago, people were so set on pjo and hoo and didn’t give ricks other series any other thoughts, but now ppl are talking about ToA and Magnus Chase which is fun

again, relating back to ppl being more woke, i like how people still love Rick Riordan, but not so blindly. Like years ago ppl were just like ‘uncle rick!! he’s so cool i love him!!” but now ppl are actually giving reasons on why we should love him. Like people are actually realizing how diverse of a writer he is and how his poc and lgbt characters have changed peoples lives and all that (i love rick riordan sm alright)

That’s all i got but feel free to add on.

[kkukkung]

Im crying in the school bathroom rn I seriously love wonho so much I'm in pain why is he my ideal guy in every way he's so amazing and handsome and sweet but whO CARES BEVause he don't kno me haha am I right

big mood all the time im always in pain bc he rly................ doesn’t KNOW i would let him shave off my eyebrows if he wanted 2

tardy replies as usual under the cut!

(sorted from oldest to newest)

I wouldn't even care if wonho was a high maintenance boyf tbh I'd just sit and comb his hair all day and tell him he's pretty

hdjkfh this was so long ago but i think i was mostly kidding abt him being a high maintenance bf... like he would do so much giving? but i guess the only thing he’d need is constant reassurance that his s/o loves him imo jfdhgjk... i also think he’d b someone who either doesn’t settle down ever or does it very late in his life!

annie 🌹literary queen ❤️ literally crowned with a laurel wreath! not be drum attic but this midsummer nights monsta au is so!!!! give me sistar as the four star crossed lovers then drag me to h*ll and give me this doctor faustus au i'm itching for with kihyun as faustus and k.will as mephistopheles bc i love to watch my faves s*ffer but don't let me rip until i get my much ado about nothing au with the entire cast of starship ent and a lil cameo from giriboy!

(in refence to this monsta x as shakespearean archetypes ask!) fjdshgkjs shh i lov u... why is k will as mephistopheles so Accurate esp no.mercy k will lmao. um u should write all of these? in fact if... if anyone has mx literary aus.... hmu...... i’ll n*t

another thing about that incident is that it seems like the fan doesn't think Changkyun and Jooheon undersood them?? (an extension i guess they assumed they don't understand english very well) and that's pretty problematic. it seems to me that when they didn't respond the fan assumed they didn't understand and kept repeating it, as a joke. but they literally did That to the two with the most proficient english in the group... it's rly a mess all around. it's disrespectful through and through

(in relation to that gross “d*ddy” incident from a while ago) ik i feel like some intl fans think korea is a land completely culturally and linguistically alienated/divorced from the rest of the world or something and while cultural relativism is real to some extent... the idea that koreans are completely unaware of ~outside~ things is deeply racist. like mostly white ppl think that diasphoric poc are completely Different from them? when my mum went to the states 15 years ago some ppl literally asked her if there were newspapers in china lol...

i just randomly thought of monsta x as sesame street characters mostly bc i wanna see kihyun and wonho duke it out as bert and ernie (kihyun w/ the waste paper bin on his head and wonho asking 'where's the waste paper bin' and kihyun saying 'ask me that again and look into my eyes') and also minhyuk being elmo tbh...

JKGHKJDF PLEASe!!!! when will something like this b photoshopped... minhyuk as elmo is... spot on... i remember once elmo appeared on a now-discontinued late night talk show program i used to watch when i was in primary school and he was like “elmo likes wasabi, that’s why elmo has no eyebrows” and idk why ive never been able to forget this????? very lmh. also this made me think of a monsta x muppets au n minhyuk is the pic of ass-gape kermit.... next post of mine will b monsta x as kermit reaction pics

Hyungkyun is such an under appreciated ship. Like, they just get each other so well? Why do people overlook it. ㅠ.ㅠ Do you have a moment that made you ship them? How would you describe their dynamic?

it’s bc they’re intp x intj they don’t rly... Understand each other with minimal effort/real communication lmao it’s very efficient. both quiet lil darlings who aren’t emotionally That Open but enjoy their own little space together sometimes?? their dynamic is like... they’re weird in different ways but they’re v chill together. u can tell hyungwon is super fond of changkyun like he has this Expression when ck does anything at all.... i think these two rly love each other’s personalities bc they’re both kind/gentle/peaceful types and their overall ?? vibe is just highly compatible... they’re absolute darlings... v soft together... i can’t think of a favourite moment but i rly rly love their birthday messages for each other last year like changkyun’s message for hyungwon was like “ur rly cool bruh ur rly such a great person” and hyungwon’s message for changkyun was rly... just him obviously doting on him n finding him cute jksfdhg i lov them a lot :(

soyou: i know how to make hair pretty :))) knetz: dirty fckn iljin why can't she be out there being being PRODUCTIVE in society by having babies and learning how to be a good wife for her future husband ://// smh how dare she be successful now when i'm stuck doing what society wants me to do but also anonymously attacking ppl i don't personally know on the internet bc THATS respectable the irony of ugly knetz is so transparent

The whole thing about Knetz and wonho's "scandalous" past reminded me of something. As a PSA to those people who are so insistent and pushy that idols aren't allowed to have sex/date/be anything but straight: Fuck all of you. You do not own these people, and if you really cared about them you'd be happy if they were happy. Like tbh, if anyone that famous and busy could also balance out a relationship at the same time, I'd be so happy for them. It really bugs me how all idols are supposed (1/2)(2/2) have this squeaky clean innocent image where they have to look and act a certain way and have these stupid fucking dating bans because once they don't meet up to that image their success suffers. Idols already give up so much privacy, and the last thing they need is millions of people scrutinizing every little thing they do. I don't even know where I started this rant from, but basically, GIVE IDOLS PRIVACY AND DONT JUDGE THEM FOR THEIR PASTS OR FOR BEING IN RELATIONSHIPS OR WHATEVER

yeth ty for highlighting the gross obsession w purity and productivity (like the first anon said -- a very confucian sort of ideal)... i don’t rly have anything else to add here i think. also i would fight for soyou i fact i would fight lmh who said she was his ideal type in no.mercy era... she’s rly one of my faves and the way she was slandered for the hairdressing thing was one of the most ridiculous things knets ever did lmao honestly yuk

u a kihyun stan now👀👀👀

im a @fhiz​ stan it’s the same thing tbh

ahh so i saw your tags on that jh gifset! as one of the few jh stans (or maybe there are way more than i think there are lol) i rly love his "reversal charm." he has a lot of what i lack as a person: a strong presence and a lot of confidence! i respect him so much as a person alth i rag on him a lot LMAO. sorry if this is a bit long winded but i just rly wanted to put this out there ;;

this is rly cute i lov hearing ppl talk abt their faves lovingly it rly... Heals Me. i think it’s strange how underappreciated jooheon is in this fandom especially bc he’s usually the one who catches ur eye first bc he’s so hyped by starship as being a one-in-a-million talented rapper u know? and he rly shines in mvs and no.mercy but............. y does he have the least fansites jkfhdg ?? you’re v right abt the reversal charm thing but i feel like sometimes it’s very overdone like... on lots of shows he’s asked to do aegyo when rly he should be asked to... idk... rap or dance or something?? i actually think jooheon is the most serious member of monsta x sometimes bc he seems to have a sense that he’s.. the pillar of mx if that makes sense? and that’s why he’s always pushing himself and working tirelessly like he feels very Responsible for this group, more than anyone else. idk if that makes sense!!! i love him and i want him to... unwind a bit bc sometimes he looks so stressed and tired but he still feels the need to pretend to be energetic like my heart rly hurts for him :/ this got so emo im sry i do rly love to hear that u respect him sm i love jooheon stans :(

i can see what u mean about jooheon being 1 of the most masculine. (iirc u also talked abt kihyun being that in a post a while ago) like with his face and his physique he really is striking; his body=like that slim,upside-down Y that you'd learn to draw men w/ in Anatomy 101 , but i think.. ,--not that u asked, but,, i think the jury's still out on if he's comfortable w his masculinity with the way he acts feminine lyk misogynistic comedians Can sound like dead ringers for women,? idk & i take +

(not sure if there was a 2nd part to this? there’s nothing else in my inbox so i’m sry if there was and tumblr ate it) yeth i think i meant that his demeanor is the most ~~masculine~~ whereas i think kihyun is still the most... idk... mature-masculine?? if tht makes sense, and i definitely agree w u on that second point! i didn’t think of that at the time but now that i... do... think abt it... ur right and also the way he comes back from it by putting on the >swag demeanor again in an attempt to polarise it is definitely a bit 👀👀👀 he probably doesn’t want to risk his Manly Rapper Image for real u kno? that said it’s ingrained in kpop that behaving cute --> “girly” entails that sort of “comedic” high-pitched voice + compact body language etc.... like i’m not condoning that ofc but i definitely think it’s broader than this particular case! :/ hm

maybe i'd be doing better in school if i could major in kihyunology ;~; i stan him but i def think we still don't know much about him even after all this time after debut. especially when i look at him compared to wonho who wears his heart on his sleeve (bless him i love wonho sm, gotta protect this bun at all costs!!)...but ya it just makes me wanna learn more about him like who is the real kihyun??

i want to write a kihyun meta when i have time... i feel like i Get him a bit more these days but it’s also very hard to put into words bc u kno when u kinda sorta mb get some1 but it’s a feeling rather than anything conveniently expressable gkjdhfjk.... idk if anyone wants to send in some Kihyun Thoughts + Meta feel free! :>> i don’t think he’s actually... as complex as we sometimes make him out to be lol like his behaviour is actually kind of predictable? more on his later

wait is the february comeback actually true? ugh i'm so conflicted cuz on one hand i'm excited if there's really gonna be a full length album, but i also think they need more rest but then there's the matter of getting their first win and idk i'm super psyched but i'm also worried that the boys are being overworked

i still feel like they had a comeback like yesterday lol like looking at their schedules stresses me out bc they do so much..... im glad wonho got to go to his mum’s cafe recently tho! all we can do is have faith in them rn and when it’s time... stream, buy things if ur able to, spread the news and the hype etc. i am definitely Worried abt some things like the competition they’re up against but.... gotta have faith u kno... and i feel like all active idols are kind of... permanently worked very hard but i think currently only jooheon and shownu are a bit Overloaded. also has the date been confirmed yet... it’s february already...