#ignoring 15x20

[lolaused2run]

Hey remember when Jensen was so upset about the series finale he went to talk to the writers & they told him to "take it or leave it" & then had to be convinced to "take it" & then actively changed the barn scene so at least Dean was able to stay on his feet the whole time?

And then he created a whole prequel just to show his character actually wasn't just aimlessly waiting around for his brother to show up, & started talking about rebooting the series as soon as it ended, as if he was thoroughly dissatisfied with the ending? Yeah, me too

[clairenatural]

hey sorry to ask you but what is the destiel lamppost thing? if u know what it is

Hi anon!!! I wasn't ignoring you I just wanted to be able to sit down and type out the lore.

So "why lamp"/the destiel lamp thing starts with 15x10, The Heroes' Journey, in which Dean and Sam are stripped of the luck/protections that being written as protagonists gives them by Chuck (very meta) and Dean ends up needing cavities filled.

Garth gives him laughing gas for the procedure, during which Dean has a dream of a black and white 50s style dance sequence. It takes place in the bunker and while initially it's Dean dancing with Garth, eventually Garth leaves and Dean runs over to pick up a lamp from the corner of the room to dance with. Here's the whole thing:

But once it's Dean and the lamp, the dance becomes markedly more romantic - he's dancing with the lamp as a partner, not like the tap dancing he and Garth do side-by-side.

Also important to note that they're dancing to "Let's Misbehave," which is about sex and also was written by Cole Porter, who was gay. This is a really good breakdown of the dance itself, the significance of the song and Cole Porter and its connections to old queer Hollywood.

At the end of the episode, Dean sees Bess and Garth dancing in their living room through the window and says "You know, I always thought I could be a good dancer if I wanted to be."

This is pretty clearly associating the dream sequence, and Dean dancing with a lamp, as about Dean longing for a partner and therefore the lamp as a stand-in for that partner.

NOW. Meta was written as soon as this episode aired with people linking the lamp to Cas, and there has continued to be much better meta than I can write here - this one is in-depth and connects it to themes across the seasons and Dean's years-long character arc. "Cas is Lamp" even has its own superwiki page.

But besides all the normal meta deancas reasons and the fact that this comes at a time when Dean's character arc had been building both to him wanting to settle down with someone AND that someone being Cas (this is the episode right after The Trap and Dean's "I should have stopped you/of course I forgive you" prayer), Cas (and angels broadly) is associated with light and lamps throughout the series, perhaps most iconically in 4x16.

So, after 15x18, "the lamp thing" was something frequently cited and that we held onto as another thing they'd dropped alluding to (nay, ensuring - because they'd surely somehow have to wrap up Dean's own arc of wanting a partner to settle down with) a happy deancas endgame where Cas is rescued and they live happily ever after.

And then. 15x20 happened. And "why lamp" took off as part of a long list of "if they were just never going to mention Cas again, let alone resolve the confession or this very key part of Dean's story arc of wanting to settle down, why did they include [long list of things that make no sense with the ending we got]." Why lamp has become shorthand for a long list of missing links and loose ends and things that just don't add up. If deancas wasn't going to be the happy endgame, then why lamp. Why did they drop so many clues and work up to a very clear resolution for Dean's character arc if they were just going to drop it. Why lamp. It's one of those things that will haunt us because we will never get an answer. Okay grandma, let's get you to bed. But why lamp.

[annmariethrush]

Eventually I’ll write my magnum opus, a 15x18 fix it crack fic where Dean gets ground hog day stuck in the S3 ghostfacers episode immediately after Cas’s death. he has to go through this stupid ghost hunt over and over while he comes to terms with Cas’s confession and tries to ignore his own feelings until he realizes that some cosmic force is trying to show him something. Gay love can pierce through the veil of death and save the day. Finally, hundreds of ghostfacers! Episodes later he finally, teary eyed and distraught, admits that maybe Ed and Harry, insane and stupid though they are, may be right and that he has to admit his feelings for his poor dead angel to get him back.

This naturally turns out to be an act of Gabriel who is still somehow not dead, and we find out at the end that the real kicker is that time hasn’t actually really been on loop and that Dean has been stuck living that day over and over while Sam thinks that he’s dead as per 15x20 because as much as Gabriel wants to finally see Dean and Cas get together after being around since the beginning of the world’s greatest love story, he also just really fucking HATES Sam for some reason and wants to make him suffer by spending months thinking Dean is dead for real no take backs on a stupid hunt after they defeated god. Ultimately, much like his revival in S13, Dean’s love wakes Cas up in the empty, allowing Jack to free him, which was the plan all along, Gabriel just got to have too much fun with the plan after convincing Jack it wouldn’t work if they just told him

[lol-jackles]

Sorry, but I really don't understand these people. This is the transcription of what Jensen said at Purcon 8. How do the hellers understand from here that their ship is or will be canon? Jensen is telling them that the "confession" will never be processed, ever. What's wrong with them? (www*tumblr*com/purewasteland/751644940910673920/it-was-clear-text?source=share)

Link. This isn't new behavior; all slash shippers live off the fumes of that one second eye glance, out of context comment, and grossly inflate their influences. Kirk/Spock shippers credited themselves for keeping the show alive through the decades when it was actually syndications attracting new generations of fans and bringing them to conventions and the eventual spinoffs. Majority of new Star Trek fans never heard of "Spirk", just like new SPN fans are going to be clueless about Destiel. Slash shippers have been and will always be the fringe minority in fandoms, abeit very loud ones, lol.

So not surprising the hellers only focused the one out of context line, "Whenever they do end up coming back" and ignoring the rest of Jensen's words that there is nothing to resolve and nothing to talk about and everything will carry on as usual i.e. Dean's speech to Sam at the start of 15x20 that they shouldn't dwell on the past and just move forward eating pie. In other words, the revival will be a proper sequel.

To answer your question, the hellers are just continuing the tradition of non-canon shippers making stuff up from fumes and crumbs. They went from "this seasons is when Destiel is gonna be canon" to "this con is where they're say Destiel is canon" to "this non-U.S con is where they're say the confession will be resolved!" Hellers offer nothing to the fandom, but they demand everything.

[youchangedmedestiel]

It scares the hell out of me that maybe there will be a SPN revival, because my expectations are soooo high. And I can't simply not watch it, so I'll have to face what they'll do anyway.

Here are the possible outcomes:

Either they completely back track on Cas's confession, saying it was a platonic love (and it would be so bad because we know it's not, narratively speaking it just isn't).

Either they just completely ignore Cas's confession and finds a plot to last one season or a movie and make it all about the brothers.

Either they at least fixe partly 15x20, by rectifying Dean's situation, because it was so bad, maybe they play the "this was all a dream" card, it's not a great card but if Dean is alive, I'll take it willingly.

Either they adress Cas's confession but Dean doesn't reciprocate (which we know is bullshit too).

Either they adress Cas's confession and Dean reciprocates, but Cas isn't there.

Either they adress Cas's confession and Dean reciprocates, and miraculously Cas is there. And a Destiel kiss happens (FUCKING FINALLY). At least one, but if one might dare to dream it should be thousands of it. And maybe only then we can finally find peace once it's done. Hopefully. After every lose their shits first. Making history again (like November 5th, I wasn't there so I want to live one of that kind). Let me have this. Please. Let US have this. It's for the greater good.

And I don't even talk about Saileen here, but Eileen should be here too, obviously, and not just in a blurry way.

[destieltaggedfic]

Touch - Part 4

Gestures – mansikka   Ao3

Nonspecific timeframe.  One day Cas realises that Dean wants and needs little signs of affection to truly make him happy and secure in their relationship.  Signs he’s only too happy to provide.

Word Count: 5k                                 No Sex

hug-o-meter – Emeraldcas   Ao3

Nonspecific timeframe.  One day, Dean asks Cas for a hug, wanting it to be something they do more often, not just when the world is ending.

Word Count: 1k                                 No Sex

i breathe the rituals – MacksDramaticShenanigans   Ao3

Nonspecific timeframe.  Cas likes to use the excuse of healing Dean to touch him gently, and it all too willing to use the ignorant angel card to do it.

Word Count: 2k                                 No Sex

days & weeks & months - rhinestoneangels (almondrose)   Ao3

Set 15x20 didn’t happen AU.  They got him back, and now Dean doesn’t ever want to let Cas go again, if he physically holds onto Cas forever he can never leave.

Word Count: 1k                                 No Sex

Flicker, Fizzle, Pop - FeatheredKisses (Izupie)   Ao3

Nonspecific timeframe.  When Dean realises that Cas’ angel powers make electricity go haywire when he touches the angel he thinks it’s a fun game.  Until Cas starts avoiding him anyway.

Word Count: 9k                                 Non-Graphic Sex

[idreamofhazeleyes]

Lost

@impala-dreamer @mrswhozeewhatsis @squirrelnotsam @idreamofplaid @winchestergirl-13 @spnfanficpond

15x20 is going to be re-written from what we got in the show. What follows is a possible scenerio in that re-write.

15x20 

Aeryn’s POV 

I stumbled up to the nurses’ station just as my leg gave out on me. The local police officer was feet behind me saying something I couldn’t register. I barely registered the nurse was Alex. The look on her face was a mix of shock with an “oh, shit”. She moved around the counter, waving the officer away just as I put two fingers to my neck. Immediately, Alex got me into a private triage room and disappeared. Voices carried in between her and another nurse; arguing over needing to do proper triage and paperwork before taking back a patient. Alex argued that given how much blood was on me and the state of shock I was in, taking me in first without paperwork was proper triage procedure. She came back in a few minutes later with a rolling cart. 

“I called Jody,” she said as she pulled out a pair of scissors and started cutting away the bloody and ripped clothes. “She’s gonna call Sam and Dean.” 

A mental sigh of relief washed over me. Knowing Dean, he would be red lining Baby until he got here. I winced in pain as Alex peeled off my shirt and bra. A light touch to where a large gash was on my back gained a face contorting wince of pain. Damn, why did I have to pick up Dean’s sense of hiding the pain.  

“How the hell did you walk in?” Alex asked just before a cold piece of cloth was placed on the wound. 

I hissed at the stinging sensation of the cleaning liquid. “Determination and sheer willpower. You know, the fundamentals of being a Winchester.” My body slumped forward, pulling at the back wound. “A patrol car came up and got me and the two boys in. I’m surprised I managed it with a dislocated hip. I walked the cop through how to pop it back into place.” 

I hoped that the other nurses were taking care of them and working on finding their parents. The officer was bound to be doing the latter. A nurse came in with items for a blood draw. 

“Can I do a draw?” she asked. “Standard for patients.” 

It wasn’t, yet I agreed. Done within a few minutes, the nurse collected the vials and truncate. Alex asked if a hospital gown could be brought around. The nurse agreed to pass the message on. Alex continued to work on cleaning off the blood and patching up the wounds I gained from the vampire fight and escape. Eventually a second nurse came around with a gown and blanket. After sitting for a while, my body revolted in moving to shed my tattered clothes and put the gown on. Even my boots came off.  

“I’ll be back in a while,” Alex said, gathering the cart. “Get some rest.” 

A hand reached for the blanket, and I managed to unfold it before laying down. Alex came back in with a saline bag and got it hooked up. I could feel the cool liquid enter the top of my hand; getting necessary fluid into my body. She adjusted the blanket before stepping out. I wasn’t sure how much time passed before familiar voices drifted into the room.  

Heavy footsteps headed toward my curtained off room. My head turned just enough as the person entered. At first I couldn’t fully register who I saw. He must have either been in the area or raced from the Bunker to the hospital. 

“Dean?” My voice was low. I wanted to get up to make sure I wasn’t hallucinating. I started to sit up. 

“Yes, love.”  

He hadn’t used that nickname in ... A wave of pain starting from my lower abdomen washed over my body. Those pains had been happening for the past few days. I had ignored them thinking they were bad menstrual cramps. 

“Lay down. I’m here.” 

Dean gave me a light hut before helping me adjust back onto the bed. He adjusted the blanket before pulling the lone chair over and sat next to me. 

“I’m sorry I wasn’t there,” he started. “I should have ...” 

“It was a simple case that turned sideways,” I cut in. “When do we ever get lucky on big cases?” 

Another wave of pain shot through my body. Everything contorted from the pain. A soft whimper escaped even as I heard Dean say something. The pain passed as a light cough came. 

“Sorry to disturb you,” a male voice said.  

My gaze went to the curtain to see a doctor standing there with a tablet in hand. 

“We got the blood test results back,” the doctor said. “Everything looks good. Though something came up. Is there any possibility that you are, or were, pregnant?” 

The cramps weren’t menstrual. My face turned and buried into the pillow. Dean took hold of a hand. I couldn’t believe I hadn’t sensed it before. Death had said I was able to sense unborn infants. Apparently there was a point where I couldn’t. Dean leaned over and planted a kiss on my cheek. The doctor said something about pain meds and discharge papers. I didn’t care about that. I just wanted to get out of the hospital. 

“Hey. Hey. Hey.” Dean leaned over and planted a gentle kiss on my cheek. “It’s alright. We’ll get you back to the Bunker and ...” 

I shook my head. The last place I wanted to be was the Bunker. “I wanna go to Jody’s.” 

“Jody’s?” 

I heard footsteps and Jody’s voice asking if everything was okay. Dean asked if we could crash at her place. She agreed and disappeared just as someone else walked in. 

“Clothes for Aeryn,” Sam said.  

I felt a weight being put onto the bed, most likely a duffel bag.  

“Sorry, Aeryn. It’s some of our things.” 

I turned my head. “S’okay. Thanks, Sam.” 

He ducked out as the doctor came in with the discharge papers and instructions for care and to follow up with my general practitioner. I eased into a sitting position even as Dean started pulling out what appeared to be his clothes. I grabbed the boxers as he came around to help shed the hospital gown, stopping to see the gauze on my back. A light touch around that spot gained a hiss of pain. I managed to get the boxers onto my knees before Dean came around and helped with the sweatpants. 

One hand held onto him for a few minutes once on my feet while the other held onto the sweats and boxers. Dean stood there holding me until I was comfortable keeping my balance. He helped with putting the tee shirt on, gently pulling it down to avoid my back wound. I wrapped an arm around his as we left the curtained off room as Dean carried the duffel bag and papers. I was done hunting. The back wound from the rebar had been too close for comfort. 

[alfalfapie]

this is a post that ignores 15x20, mostly

I choose to believe that after Chuck left and he got Cas back, he felt that "anger that was always inside him" alleviate a bit. Some of it is still there, cuz the trauma he went through can't be fixed that easy, but the constant roiling anger is lessened. He's more gentle after Chuck; he has a dog to take care of, a husband to dote on, and a son to raise. Sure, he still gets mad sometimes and yells louder than he needs to. But he apologizes. He works on himself. Sam convinces him to see a therapist (it's actually a hunter who got their doctorate before entering the life, so they can be open). He and Cas start a garden. He volunteers at a local soup kitchen, making food. When Sam and Eileen have kids, he showers them with affection. He smiles more. He laughs more. Cuz the anger is there, but there's no divine force driving him over the edge anymore.

[angelsdean]

https://www.tumblr.com/deaniskissedbyanangel/711997042205114368

Thought you might be interested in this post about my highly unfortunate experience in this fb group...

oof they soooo do not get it. also they clearly seem to think sam is the somehow still main character of the show when he hasn't been since like kripke era at MOST) which is just ??? like i'm sorry to sam girls everywhere but j*red stopped acting a long time ago and it impacted sam's stories to the point where the writers just seemed to stop trying to give sam major storylines. like sam's arcs became less of the focus and dean + cas ended up carrying so much of the show in the later seasons. also i did not watch 15x20 but i feel like i read that dean jr does end up hunting too?? so how is that healing anything or ending the cycle ?? hunting was a huge part of the problem and that whole life is where most of their trauma stems from. Also the way that person completely ignored the fact that dean was unhappy in heaven and unhappy being dead and still searching for purpose and happiness. like dean needed this to heal. sure, maybe sam was healing his own trauma living his long life on earth, but this was something dean needed to do to heal for himself. because, y'know, dean is his own person separate from his brother and they each have their own trauma to heal from. (i also really hate how that person paired their names together AND spelled cas with an extra 's'. literally extra 's' cas truthers are....a red flag for me lmaoo)

[draculagerard]

ok so until u tell me how they become canon i'm just imagining a long distance relationship from the afterlife to the living .like twirling the phone line talking to eachother kinda shit

Nono youre right that's the truth. <3

anyways okay here's a rundown of what happened in the last three episodes (confession ep -> finale) + how the dean side of destiel is canon

If you just want the tl;dr, look at the picture attached !!!

background: Cas made a deal with the entity Empty, which is also the angel afterlife (dubbed superhell by tumblr) where the Empty would kill him in a moment of happiness in return for letting his son, Jack, live

detail: And Cas didnt tell anyone about this deal because he was like yeah man i dont see happiness for me because, in his words, the one thing i want is something i cant have.

Destiel canon episode, 15x18:

a whole season passed and Death (shes also a character) was trying to kill Dean and Cas and Dean are running away. then Cas realizes the only thing powerful enough to kill Death was the Empty. All he had to do was summon her.

Anyways Cas was like "happiness isnt in the having its in the being" and shit and confessed to Dean. basically he finally felt happy when he was able to accept and admit that he loved Dean and why. and then the Empty killed both Cas and Death.

(Dean was there on floor crying and ignoring everyone's calls until the sun rose </3)

15x19: Then the next episode was kind of a whole bunch of nothing destiel wise so you dont have to read this. but anyways a few highlight moments.

-> The devil/Lucifer calling Dean on his phone, pretending to be Cas, to let him into the bunker. angst moment 10/10. Casbaiting moment 0/10

-> Dean told God/Chuck that he would kill Sam and have Sam kill him if it meant Chuck could bring everyone back. and then he went out to emphasize that he had to bring Cas back.

15x20: Dean died on a fucking nail, went to heaven, his CAR was there (his fucking CAR. in heaven.), Jack (who is god now) revived Cas, Sam grew old and died, and yeah. the end

and ofc everyone was like okay . we're never getting anything huh.

wrong! okay so in his original confession, Cas said "I love you" and Dean replied "Don't do this..." (referring to Cas sacrificing himself to save Dean).

Then the spanish dub came out. In the spanish dub, it went "I love you" and dean replied "And I you, Cas" and like. what the FUCK. Destiel was fucking canon in SPANISH and then the tumblr servers actually froze and shut down for a while because of the disruption it caused LMAO.

so thats why the official status for destiel on the website looks like this:

[castielafflicted]

writing like. if you can ignore 15x20 you can ignore [other canon thing] for this fic please and thank you <3

[antigonewinchester]

Would you say more about it not being foreshadowing? I don't necessarily think it's what the writers intended I moreso saw it as the writers were so incompetent that it was accidentally really poetic. Feel free to ignore ofc

I'd be happy to rant explain!

The argument I’ve seen in fandom is that Becky’s conversations with Chuck about his writing in 15x04 are meta-commentaries on episode 15x19 and/or 15x20, with Becky acting as the “fan” voice pointing out how horrible Chuck’s stories are, and by implication, how horrible the last two episodes of the real show also are. For an example of this framing, see this chapter in a longer “Chuck Won” essay, which argues the 15x04 meta commentary was also intended to show Chuck wasn’t defeated in 15x19 and still controlled the story in 15x20.

I’ve got three major problems with this reading.

First, it ignores how in context, Becky & Chuck’s conversations are commenting on what’s happening in 15x04 itself (an idea I first saw on the fan Supernatural Wiki, as the final point under "Minutiae," although I have a slightly expanded take on it).

Mid-way through the ep, Sam & Dean are caught by the parents and held at gunpoint. Then we see Becky looking at Chuck’s first draft:

BECKY Okay. If I had to give one note… the jeopardy, Chuck. It’s feeling a little… thin? Low stakes? It’s fun to hear the boys’ voices, but a story is only as good as its villain, and these villains are just not feeling very… dangerous? Not to mention, there’s no classic rock. No one even mentions Cas. The climax is a little stale. Boys tied up again while we get the villain’s monologue, which, frankly, isn’t one of your best. A little originality wouldn’t… [She looks up at him and gets scared. CHUCK scowls at her.] …hurt. CHUCK You want jeopardy? You want danger? [CHUCK moves around the desk.] Move! [BECKY gets up from the chair and he sits down. He starts typing.] I’ll give you danger.

After having dealt with an army of ghosts from Hell, a vampire in a small town is pretty low stakes; Sam & Dean never mention Cas in this ep; there's no classic rock songs; and it seems like a pretty typical vampire story, about an vampire dad attacking teenage girls.

But then we get the twist: it isn't the father, but the son, Billy, who’s the vampire. He accidentally killed his girlfriend, is killing his friend Tori, and knows he won’t be able to control his bloodlust in the future, as much as he wants to. Despite the protests of his parents, Billy goes with Sam and Dean knowing they’ll kill him, choosing his own death over hurting anyone else. We then get Becky and Chuck talking about Chuck’s second draft:

BECKY B-But it’s so… dark. CHUCK But great, right? I can see it now… “Supernatural: The End”. And the cover is just a gravestone that says “Winchester”. The fans are gonna love it. Well? BECKY It’s awful! Horrible. It’s hopeless. [BECKY gets up from the chair and walks around the desk to CHUCK.] You can’t do this to the fans. What you did to Dean? What you did to Sam? CHUCK There, see? It’s making you feel something. That’s good, right? BECKY No!

We’ve just seen Billy, a 17-year-old who doesn’t want to be a monster but was been made into one, get decapitated—no cure, no redemption, just death. What is that if not a dark, horrible ending?

Second, I don’t see the supposed connections between Becky’s commentaries in 15x04 and the plots of 15x19 & 15x20.

Does Becky’s first critique (low stakes, not very dangerous villain, no classic rock, no mention of Cas, climax stale & unoriginal) reflect what happens in 15x19? No. Sam & Dean (and Jack) are fighting to save the world, so not exactly low stakes, and Chuck has just zapped away everyone on else on Earth, which I’d say makes him pretty dangerous & powerful. “Running on Empty” might not a great classic rock song, but it does fall within the classic rock label. Cas is mentioned multiple times in the ep, twice by Jack and once by Dean. The climax could be described as stale or unoriginal, but that’s subjective (and I’ve seen people who’ve liked it).

Does Becky’s second critique (dark, awful, horrible, hopeless, terrible things have happened to Sam & Dean) reflect 15x20? Also no. Yes, Dean does die. But he goes to Heaven, and not the crappy, relieve-your-best-moments-forever Heaven, but one where he can actually be with the people he loves, as we see with Bobby (and implied with Mary & John being “over yonder”). Yes, Sam is devastated when Dean dies. But Sam then keeps living—he gets married, has a son of his own, and when he dies, also goes to Heaven. Chuck describes his cover as a picture of a gravestone (and only one gravestone). Contrast that image against the final visual of the show. While they’re both images of death, a lone gravestone compared to Sam & Dean together in Heaven are not the same. The first could be described as dark or hopeless, but at worst you could call the second bittersweet.

Third, the focus on Becky’s critiques as meta-commentary misses the character set up for Sam at the end of 15x04, and how this pays off in 15x20, both in terms of Sam’s ending as a character and for the show thematically as a whole.

At the end of 15x04, Sam & Dean have one of their patented episode-ending-conversations about their feelings.

DEAN Well, that was an interesting one. SAM Yeah. What Henry did… we’d have done the same thing. For Jack. If we had the chance. DEAN Yeah. Yeah, we would. Look, man, I get it. I get it. We have lost way, way too much. And it’s hard not to feel like just… cashing out. I felt like that. After Chuck, back at the crypt. But you know what brought me back? You did. By sayin’ that what we do still matters. I mean, that’s why I wanted to drag us out here. That’s why I wanted to… to work a case, to save lives, you know? ‘Cause it is… it’s a… it’s crap job. We do the ugly thing so that people can live happy. SAM Yeah. Yeah. Lucky them. DEAN Yeah, lucky them. But it doesn’t change a thing. You know what I mean? We still do the job. But we don’t do it for us. We do it for Jack, for mom, for Rowena. We owe it to anybody who has ever given a damn about us to keep putting one foot in front of the other. No matter what. And hey, man, like you said, now that Chuck’s gone, we’re finally on our own. We are finally free to… move on, you know? SAM I don’t know. Uh… I-I don’t know if I can move on. You know, I-I-I… I can’t forget about any of them. Dean, I still think about Jessica. I… I can’t just let that go. DEAN No, man, that’s not what I’m talking about. SAM I know, I know, I know. I’m sorry. I know. But… but what I’m saying is that I don’t feel free. What we’ve done, what we’ve lost, right now, that is what I’m feeling, and… and sometimes it’s… it’s like I-I-I can’t even breathe. But maybe tomorrow. You know, maybe I’ll… I’ll feel better in the morning. DEAN And what if you don’t? SAM I don’t know.

Dean is framed as the hunter, who copes with his losses by throwing himself into the job. After Dean got shaken by Chuck, Sam reminded him that hunting still matters, and that they could still save and protect people, still kill the things that go bump in the night. Now that Sam is feeling shaken, Dean tries to remind Sam that they have to keep living for the people they’ve lost, no matter what, to pull him out of his funk. But for Sam, hunting doesn’t seem to be enough. He’s still weighed down and depressed by all they’ve faced and everyone they’ve lost—even Jessica, who died 15 years ago in real life terms and decades ago for Sam in-universe.

This conversation in 15x04 is similar to Sam & Dean’s conversation in 15x20 at the pie festival:

DEAN [Looking at SAM] What? What's wrong? SAM Nothing. I'm fine. DEAN No, come on. I know that face. That's, uh… That Sad Sam face. SAM I'm not Sad Sam. I'm just… I'm thinking about Cass, you know? Jack. If they could be here. DEAN Yeah. Yeah, no. I think about 'em, too. You know what? That pain's not gonna go away. Right? But if we don't keep living, then all that sacrifice is gonna be for nothing. So, quit being a friggin' Eeyore, huh? Come on. [DEAN motions to the slices of pie in the box.] Get into this! SAM Yeah, you're right.

Once again, Sam is caught up in the loses they’ve faced, most recently in Cas’s sacrifice and Jack becoming God and leaving them. Dean consoles him and says, like in 15x04, that they have to keep living, even if it hurts.

And then Sam faces the biggest loss of all—Dean’s death. And in the face that loss, Sam keeps carrying on: he marries, raises Dean II well, and when he finally dies, old and grey, he’s reunited with Dean and everyone else in Heaven once again.

The meta writer of that Chuck Won meta, and a lot of the fandom, make the assumption that Sam & Dean’s deaths in S15 are something bad. But death, and the inevitability of death, has always been a part of SPN. The show started out with Mary’s death, John’s intense grief, and the pain and suffering John caused Sam & Dean by dragging them on his hunting revenge quest. The show ended with Dean’s death and Sam accepting it, living a normal, non-hunting life, and with the implication that his son Dean II lived a normal life too. If after Dean's first permanent death in 3x16, Sam became revenge-obsessed out of grief, now Sam has learned to accept death, despite everyone & everything he's lost and how deep his grief runs. Or compared to Sam in season 1, who immediately dived back into hunting after Jessica's death, Sam in season 15 is framed as having matured and grown, and so he handles his loss in a much healthier way.

(I haven't talked much about Dean's arc, and I suspect something that disturbs people is the feelings of narrative 'inevitability' around Dean's death. If 15x20 echoes 3x16, where Dean died not because of how the story unfolded but because of the writer's strike cutting the season short, why does Dean still die in 15x20? Why wasn't Sam able to save him? Answering these questions is a whole 'nother can of fish, but my short answer is that Sam saving Dean didn't fit w/ how the writers saw Sam and Dean's narrative roles/boxes, and they weren't willing to imagine a different story for the bros. This idea is actually something I'm trying to work through in my Utena vs. SPN essay, so I'll have more to say about it at some point in the future.)

[swordofsun]

Absolutely unhinged Chuck Won theory that had no chance of being true, but it amuses me.

The Dean that died in 15x20 was Hunter Corp Dean. Whether the Sam was HC!Sam or not is up in the air. Sam had a tendency to ignore anything Dean does that doesn't fit into his preconceived notions, so maybe.

But let's say HC!Dean is tired of Brazil. He liked the beer and porn and hunting monsters lifestyle of OG Winchesters. He asks to come back. OG!Dean is figuring out a way to save Cas (and Jack? This theory hinges on Dean realizing Chuck Won) and tells him to just take over his life. All good, no one will even notice.

Events play out as we see in 15x20.

Meanwhile OG!Dean is off executing whatever plans have lead to The Winchesters.

[melxhunter]

It was a terrible, TERRIBLE idea to rewatch 15x20 and not just fucking ignore it. I’m not going to recover for day, BUT MY SCHOOL STARTS TOMORROW SO I HAVE TO RECOVER TO TOMORROW.

So… guess who is going to go back and watch season 1? Meeeeee. It’s probably not going to work though, because now both 15x18 and 15x20 are fresh in my mind.

[youchangedmedestiel]

My thoughts just after finishing Supernatural

One year ago on this exact same day I finished SPN. I watched 15x18, 15x19 and 15x20 in a row. I just ate dinner between 15x18 and 15x19 (weird dinner). After watching episode 15x20, I wasn't that pissed off about the end. It changed now, because I got the time to think about it.

See, I knew Cas wouldn’t appear in the last two episodes, but somehow I still hoped that the deal with the Empty wasn’t the reason, because he deserved to be happy. As I progressed through season 15 I felt it coming, even though I was hoping until the last second. And when I got to episode 15x18, I understood that it was this deal that was going to kill him but I didn't know how. That confession scene destroyed me but anyway I went to eat my dinner while being destroyed and then I came back to SPN to watch the last two episodes, knowing I wouldn’t see Cas anymore.

Then came episode 15x19, I've read often that people prefer to ignore 15x20 and I can totally understand (Dean deserved to live free and happy), but 15x19 is NOT a satisfying ending for me, because Cas is still in the Empty (well maybe not, but we don’t know that yet) and I just can’t, he can’t stay there, dead, I can’t accept that.

This is what allows me to appreciate 15x20 a little bit. But it’s not the only reason, because in this last episode I spotted several empty bottles of alcohol in Dean’s room and you all know why. He misses Cas, for sure, at least it’s my headcanon because I need it. Plus, he doesn’t stay long alive after Cas’s death, there is no real timeline. He couldn’t ask Jack to bring him back because Jack told them he wouldn’t intervene anymore and left. So maybe their hopes to get Cas out without Jack were at zero. But I’m sure Dean searched in the bunker’s library when he had the time to before he died. He searched for a way to get Cas out. And then he died (unfortunately, it still hurts). 

Which brings us to episode 15x20. The end of SPN is “good” in a sense that Dean wanted Sam to have a life, a normal apple pie life, so it’s a happy ending for that, because he achieved his goal but HE DESERVED to have that too, for himself, that or anything he wanted, not only for his little brother but FOR HIM AS WELL. 

AND ABOUT CAS? Well about Cas, especially the crumbles we got with “Cas helped” I totally understand why people feel pissed about it, I kind of feel like that too now. But when I first saw this scene, I was happy to hear about Cas because I already knew he wasn’t in the last two episodes so I wasn’t going to be as disappointed as people that waited to see the episode when it aired.

We learn that Cas remade Heaven (with Jack’s help) to do a Heaven Dean deserves, and I - for me it was like Cas fucking succeeded to give Dean what he deserved. He not only saved his life multiple times, but also told him he loved him, made him believe that he did and gave him freedom (for a short amount of time, I’m really pissed about that for sure and I’m sure Cas is too, like he wasn’t expecting him so soon) but he also changed Heaven for him, to make one he deserved.

HE CHANGED THEE ENTIRE HEAVEN FOR THE MAN HE LOVES. I’m going to cry writing this, because that’s like the greatest love story ever told. And yes I would have done things differently, but I can’t and with what they gave us I do what I want. And we have an angel of the Lord, that rebelled against Heaven and that was dead, being back and building a new Heaven for Dean to enjoy eternity with the people he loved. He knew Dean was made of love and he needed a space to express it, and Cas gave it to him (with Jack of course) but damn *typing with tears in the eyes* that still hits me soooo damn hard. Because when someone love you enough to tell you they do without excepting something in return, sacrifice themselves while doing it without having an answer about whether their feelings are requited, and remake Heaven for you to have the afterlife/eternity you deserve, nothing can beat that. THIS here, this is what grabs my heart and clenches it every damn time. The greatest love story ever told. No one, NO ONE can change my mind.

[destieltaggedfic]

Purgatory - Part 5

Sunrise in Purgatory - waywardangel (leviarty)   Ao3

Set 15x20 didn’t happen AU.  They defeated Chuck, but something is still wrong because Dean is wandering around in a fog of not caring about anything.   A trip to hell shakes loose his funk and he realises that whatever is messing with him mind won’t be able to if he is in purgatory.  It may also be the answer to something else.

Word Count: 4k                                 No Sex

i found you, lost in space – myaimistrue   Ao3

Set S8.  The first night after they found him in purgatory, Dean and Cas cuddle together for warmth.

Word Count: 1k                                 No Sex

He Bids Good-bye to Distance - 60r3d0m   Ao3

Set S8.  He can barely let Cas an arms-length away from him in purgatory, whether they are walking or resting, Dean is in almost constant contact with him, it doesn’t take him long to need to be even closer.

Word Count: 3k                                 Graphic Sexual Acts

touch me – SeaFlowerLily   Ao3

Set S8.  When they reunite in purgatory, Cas realised that Dean is quite touch-starved so initiates more physical contact.  Dean is hurt when it doesn’t continue once they get back.

Word Count: 3k                                 No Sex

I need you – Avonlady   Ao3

Set S8.  Its hard for him to ignore Dean’s prayers when they are so desperate.  All Cas can do is hope that Dean eventually gives up and leaves purgatory without him.  He really should know better and when Dean finally finds him Cas realises why Dean won’t give up on him

Word Count: 4k                                 Graphic Sexual Acts