#if you think kl was supposed to be canon

[atopvisenyashill]

hello! keeping in mind your meta about jaehaerys's abuse of his daughters + the line in f&b about how a son of saera looked Exactly like jaehaerys... who do you suppose is hugh hammer's dad :')

oh i am fully behind the idea that jaehaerys is the father, i know it’s not likely to be canon (unless condal & hess are reading my blog 👀) but i’m sticking with it. i think that line about her son is SO WEIRD and probably it’s just hinting at her mental state (ie she takes clients that look like her father to retraumatize herself) but the idea that jaehaerys, likely during one of the quarrels, squirrels himself away to lys or volantis to once again use his own daughter as a replacement bed warmer when alysanne doesn’t want to fuck his nasty ass, and saera refuses to abort, and has her dad’s kid, and that kid grows up so disturbed by life in a brothel (that’s the jae genes coming out) (altho tbf that is a stressful situation for a child lol) that he changes his name and moves to KL to be a poor blacksmith & live what he hopes is a common, simple life away from the fire & blood that destroyed his mother’s mind….only to turn to vermithor when his simple life has been destroyed, and claim his unbeknownst father’s dragon on the basis of saera’s blood? that’s so delicious to me, hugh can deny his name, can deny his family, but in the end that helplessness and anger gets ahold of him and he uses the bronze fury to destroy his own wife’s last remaining place of safety. dies for absolutely nothing.

[franzkafkagf]

Do you think in Aegon's ideal world, he would still be married to Helaena? Or do you think he would have fallen in love with someone else since he has an aversion to targaryen incest?

love helaegon to bits but canon aegon's happiest life would probably be spent with some heiress from the reach. the red keep is the ultimate doom for him, marrying helaena basically shackled him to it.

i think if he had been able to leave kl he could have grown to be happier/better. there's nothing in kl for him. nothing. once rhaenyra takes the throne and moves into the red keep… where is he supposed to go?

so imagine this; he gets to marry a redding, or a middlebury, or a florent girl. it doesn't really matter what house she's from; what's important is that she inherits something and he has a keep, a place to go to. a place to call home. by marrying a heiress his kids would also actually have something in their name! aegon literally has nothing. viserys never gave a fuck,,, its sad.

[swordmaid]

The Jb Confession Scene from that post canon au is set on some field and there’s a slight rain … grass is still wet from the morning dew not gonna lie in my head it’s like 2005 pride and prejudice scene with Darcy walking through the fog except it’s jaime running through the mud in his pjs with the letter in his hand (like in persuasion!) and he looks so panicked and kind of afraid and I also have this idea that he has a slight limp post war bc his leg got damaged and I like the idea of brienne - despite being in her feelings rn - the moment she notices it’s jaime running after her she’s like oh .. then she notices he’s running and now starting to limp bc she knows his leg is now acting up she’s like oh!!!! makes the horse walk towards him so he doesn’t have to run any more further even though SHE’S the one who’s supposed to be running away. and the whole confession scene is like jaime asking her if he’s displeased her in anyway, or if he has offended, and she’s like no ofc not. he’s like then why are you leaving?? and tbh he’s BIG mad that she would just leave like that bc their relationship are worth more than saying an informal goodbye on paper!!! like hello that’s so rude!!! if u want to leave you have to say, and you have to leave through the front door and not sneak out the back end and in the route that he showed her btw. and there’s more to this dialogue btw but my pre sleep daydreams has NOT filled that in yet but I’m just imagining jaime starts to figure out why she’s so upset (she brings up the whole tourney for a lord lannister in kl and he’s gonna get married) and he’s like.. wait. WAIT. the math is mathing. brienne is upset bc she doesn’t like the idea of him marrying someone else = she’s JEALOUS…. now he can’t help it … he’s smiling and laughing at the thought bc it feels sauuurrr fucking good to know that the person you’ve been trying to get it on with hates the idea of you being with someone else and he’s like why are you so mad brienne (trying not to smile but FAILING) and she’s like well you’re just making fun of me now so I’m going to actually GO and he’s like noo you’re not allowed to leave until you tell me why you’re mad (now laughing and his dimples are showing so brienne gets more frustrated at the sight of them) then more stuff in between. I think. Anyway. In the end it’s jaime going like brienne - if you want me, you have to tell me. and you have to get off that horse (he’s been trying to make her get off that horse but she’s being stubborn) and tell me you want to be with me. and when she finally jumps off he kisses her immediately - way before she says she wants to be with him bc he’s impatient and the thought of brienne actually leaving scared him so bad

[horizon-verizon]

Where has this idea throughout the fandom come from that Rhaenyra would be/was a terrible ruler? I see people constantly saying things like “I’m not Team Green, but Rhaenyra was a terrible ruler and Aegon II was better…”

Sure, she’s not a perfect monarch, is anyone in ASOIAF a “perfect” monarch? But from what we’re told, I thought it was pretty obvious that Rhaenyra had been training since she was a young teenager in court affairs/political matters.

I could totally be wrong and forgetting things from F&B but I thought out of Aegon II and Rhaenyra it was obvious who the better ruler was?

No, it's perfectly clear Rhaenyra was comparatively the better choice as to rulership by merit, experience, and character. People simply read with their eyes closed and swallow what the writing's surface level stuff tells them.

Often those who say that bring up either her supposed cruel indifference towards her siblings, Blood and Cheese, having "bastard" kids, marrying Daemon and the way she did, the taxes at KL, and/or the attempt at having a sort of investiture ceremony/party for her remaining Velaryon son in KL. Or her seeming removal from the war preparations after she learns of Lucerys' death to Jacaerys' death. Or Nettles, thinking she wanted her killed simply bc she thought Nettles seduced Daemon away from her, when if you go back we do have some good reason to think this was just Septon Eustace's distortion of the facts (the language he uses and who he uses that language on). NOT that she sent the order, but the reason for the order.

Honestly, the criticism often stems from misogyny or a mistake in seeing her as deliberately poorly written or just badly written by GRRM. But def sexism whenever they say AEGON of all people would be "better", even if he magically allowed himself to be "ruled" by Alicent and Otto, which canonically never likely would have happened. Even if he wasn't a rapist.

[darklinaforever]

The whitewashing of Rapeaemond is annoying enough, but I think the stans are waaay worse than the writers... For some reason, greencels say he will go to the Riverlands in 03x01 (which is quite probable, unless the showrunners want him to be in KL when the battles of Honeywine and the Gullet happen, so that he meets Daeron early in the season), find in Alys someone he could love, she's gonna fix him and her arc will revolve around their epic love story. Not a big fan of show Alys, but it would be kinda lame to reduce her to just Aemond's love interest in question and her sexuality 🤮. Of course according to greencels, their relationship is gonna be consensual, since "Aemond doesn't give off rapist vibes". What makes them dead sure the unpredictable, unhinged psycho, who tries to kill his brother because he masę find of him, burns a village just because he feels frustrated, then manhandles his sister for no reason and threatens to kill her (btw isn't it motonic the director of that episode said Domesticabusaemond had a spot spot for his sister and his acts of compassion were tied to her ?)won't SA a woman who's his war prize? Especially given in many cases, r*pes are about display of power rahter than se*ual gratification? Besides, say what you will about show Alys, but isn't it already established she cares about the smallfolks, believes in the prophecy/seems convinced tptw will be Rhaenyra's offspring? So, the witch queen of Harrenhal will make a little to no sense, let alone a love affair with a war criminal? Plus, Aemond would be more interesting as a total villain rather than an uwu bad boi who's awful to everyone but his "love interest" in question. Hell, given Alys and Helaena seem somehow connected, my inner gremlin hopes it will turn out they're cooperating in order to lead Aemond to his death for the greater good . It would be so freakin' hilarious!

Indeed, it would be funny if Alys and Helaena teamed up to defeat Aemond since they seem quite connected in the show. After all, Helaena told Daemon (linked to Alys in season 2) that he knew the role he had to play and she predicted Aemond's death. It would make some kind of sense. And yes, thinking that the Alys of the show would fall in love with Aemond seems completely ridiculous since they made her have some kind of relationship with Daemon for the prophecy and she seems to be on the side of Rhaenyra's cause. So keeping the original storyline of Aemond taking Alys as a war prize and therefore raping her would make sense. However, I doubt Ryan would agree to depict this reality of the character, given everything he's already changed about him. I mean... The guy doesn't even assume to give him his canonical nickname of Kinslayer when he actually killed Luc. Whether it was an accident or not in HOTD the population is not supposed to know. Depriving him of his nickname to give it to Rhaenyra instead is ridiculous. Ryan will do anything to avoid portraying the Greens as what they really are and will always demonize members of the black team to achieve this. Seriously, Rhaenyra Kinslayer is the stupidest thing ever. Especially when everyone knows in the original text that it was Daemon alone who committed this act and that no one was offended since it was the Greens who committed the first crimes and therefore that in the logic of Westeros, the Blacks were only making the blood debts paid. I absolutely do not trust the writers to properly depict Alys and Aemond's relationship. I'm even willing to bet that they will make her the abuser, since in season 2 it is doubted whether Daemon's visions are due to the castle or Alys, or even a mix of the two. Which implies that she would be responsible for Daemon's dream about his mother, turning Alys into a sort of sexual aggressor. While she is a rape victim in Fire and Blood. Hotd is truly one of the worst adaptations out there.

[daenerysstormreborn]

Thank you! For saying all you've said on Rhaegar with regards to Elia Martell. I am an Elia fan, but I don't think Rhaegar was completely evil, or evil at all. I think he had the capacity to do so much good, or at least the bare minimum of protecting his own wife and children, yet he utterly failed. It's true the Mountain and Amory Lorch murdered Elia, Aegon and Rhaenys, and they did it because Tywin Lannister ordered it. And they were able to do so because Aerys kept Elia and her children hostage. And it's true that Rhaegar left them in Dragonstone and not with Aerys when he ran off with Lyanna... But Dragonstone is the seat of House Targaryen, and King Aerys was the head of House Targaryen. And Rhaegar knew Aerys didn't like his half Dornish grandkids and their Dornish mother. How was postpartum Elia supposed to not go to Kings Landing when the head of her house, the king of the seven kingdoms, summoned her? If Rhaegar did not run away with Lyanna right after Elia nearly died giving birth, there's no reason Aerys would have brought Elia and her kids to King's Landing to answer for Rhaegar's actions. I find it disingenuous when people pretend as if they don't know what part Rhaegar played in what happened to his family. As if he didn't start this chain of event that ended in his own wife and kids being brutally raped and murdered.

I definitely don't think he ever wanted this to happen, but it happened, and i hold him responsible for lighting the spark that turned into wildfire.

Thank you, anon! Elia is a sweet character and I feel a lot of warmth towards her. Especially hearing about her kindness to baby Tyrion. I generally have trouble being super invested in pre-canon characters but I do like Rhaegar, Elia, and Lyanna separately. Absolutely cannot stand love triangles though so that’s a bit of a barrier to my engagement. But I feel frustrated about the hostility towards Elia and her fans. Although I think a lot of it is just fans misunderstanding each other. Because if someone is a Rhaegar fan, I can see why they’d feel frustrated if they interpreted people’s criticism as “Rhaegar is solely/most at fault for the deaths of his wife and kids.” But that’s not what anyone is saying. They like to remind people that Rhaegar is a grey character but only mention it when people are talking about his pitfalls. Somehow, positive Rhaegar posts never warrant a reminder that he is a grey character…

Anyway, completely agree. I think Rhaegar had noble intentions and I believe his biggest crimes are tunnel vision and nearsightedness. He was so laser focused on this prophecy that it consumed him and as a result he didn’t do enough to protect his wife and kids. It led him to take advantage of the affections of a vulnerable teenage girl (I do also believe that he cared about Lyanna and did not INTEND to harm her). I think he was very much trapped in a, “can’t see the trees for the forest,” state of mind.

Like. Yeah. Dragonstone wasn’t the safest place for them. Bringing them there is better than leaving them in King’s Landing, but it’s not far from King’s Landing. If he could understand the need to hide Lyanna he could’ve understood the need to better protect Elia. The safest place for Elia and the kids would’ve been Dorne, with her family, far from KL. I doubt it would’ve gone well if he’d hidden her like he did Lyanna because the Martells likely would NOT have been okay with Elia and her kids just vanishing. So sending her to Sunspear or the Water Gardens would’ve been safer and it would be easily justifiable and the Martells would certainly not have sent her back to KL on Aerys’s demand. Elia and the kids are going to see the family, easy explanation. And it’s something Elia almost certainly would’ve agreed to. Explaining it to the public as a diplomatic visit would be logical too.

But of course, it would’ve been better if he’d just been with her and not Lyanna. Although if he really was planning to get rid of Aerys, he might’ve had to hide her anyway.

People are very silly about the whole thing and I think a lack of nuance is a very persistent problem in the fandom, along with a general unwillingness to engage with alternative interpretations and assuming the worst of others. It often goes like this:

“I believe X, but that doesn’t mean I believe Y.”

“No, actually, you do believe Y.”

Many such cases. When people assert that they discuss Rhaegar’s role in Elia’s death because it’s more worthy of discussion and not because they think only he is responsible, they’re met with, “No obviously you just hate Rhaegar and it’s your bias talking.” Why not take people at face value?

I could go on but the point is that yes the lack of nuance is very frustrating and I wish “X is supposed to be a grey character!!” wasn’t used to shut down discussion of a character’s faults

[melrosing]

MBO Robert's Rebellion: Episode 8

have been away so this one was a bit slower but!! martells are back. you can probably tell where this season is ending now.

timeline-wise, think this is all still roughly in line with canon dates! will be skipping forward two years next (wonder what for)

Prev: Episode 1, Episode 2, Episode 3, Episode 4, Episode 5, Episode 6, Episode 7

Next: Episode 9

title for this one (like two weeks later cos I forgot): my big fat targaryen wedding idk

One year since our last nonsense!!! We open on Shipbreaker Bay, where a ship is… breaking lol. Steffon Baratheon clings to the splintered remains of the Windproud, desperately scanning the chaotic scene for his wife Cassana. Sees her drowning some feet away, and makes his way towards her only for a HUGE WAVE to crash over them both. obliterated 😔

Robert (17) and Stannis (15) at a window; Robert makes to go down there himself, but is restrained by his father’s men - he howls in grief and rage. Stannis remains stood stiffly by the window, a vague tremor about him. Cressen places a hand on his shoulder. Baby Renly howling in the background…..

....turns to baby Viserys howling in Rhaella’s arms as Aerys tries to pry him out of them. Aerys looks like shit: his nails are longer, his hair somewhat unkempt (olaplex isn't 4 him), and he seems to have aged more than the year that’s passed. Clutching a squalling Viserys, Aerys takes his son to the dragon skulls lining his throne room, naming each as they go. Viserys eventually quiets. Finally, they come to stand in the mouth of Balerion, and both father and son stare in awe as the skull appears to swallow them

Opening 💃 creds 💃

The King’s council. Aerys receives news that things have…. not gone well with Steffon Baratheon :/ He immediately looks to Tywin, who does not look back, and rather moves on to the question of Baratheon succession. Aerys interrupting like HOLD UP who is supposed to marry my son now then!! Tywin looks at him like ‘you know what I think’ but he won’t deign to put that forward again. Aerys’ council mention that the Princess of Dorne is still touring the Seven Kingdoms seeking a husband for her daughter Elia - they've been travelling a conspicuously long time, as it goes. Might they invite the Martells to KL???

Fast forward a month or two: we’re in the Martells’ carriage, with the Princess of Dorne, Oberyn and Elia. POD fusses over Elia's tiara, but Elia is feeling sceptical: she’s heard the Prince is a bit weird. Oberyn like ‘can’t be as weird as those twins at the Rock’, tries to make his sister laugh, but her nerves are high

Rhaegar and Arthur together in the library at King’s Landing, as fucking ever. They’ve been up late, and now watch the rising sun. Rhaegar notes that the woman his father hopes to betrothe him to is due to arrive today; Arthur asks if this is what he wants, and Rhaegar states that what he wants doesn’t come into it - but the sun looks like his dreams this morning

The Martells are welcomed to King’s Landing in the courtyard. Oberyn pulls a face at Elia when they see the King (and the absolute state of him), but Elia is hesitant to return it. The Queen looks equally haunted. Between them, Rhaegar: he’s beautiful, but it feels like he’s not altogether present, and Elia is uneasy. Meanwhile, a cold look from Tywin Lannister to the Princess of Dorne. The POD smiles back

A feast in the Great Hall to welcome the Martells. Aerys sits at the head of the table, watching as each dish presented to him is tasted first. The POD attempts to make conversation with her old friend Rhaella, but Rhaella does not prove receptive. The POD senses something is terribly different about Rhaella, but the Queen seems too fragile to be pushed on it. Asking if she might meet the Prince Viserys, Rhaella tells the POD her son is not permitted visitors these days

Rhaegar has not said a word to Elia all of the feast, and she looks thoroughly dejected - till Rhaegar stands, and asks her to take a walk with him. Oberyn is unimpressed by Rhaegar and not entirely subtle about it, but the POD encourages Elia to follow the Prince. Rhaegar walks with Elia about the hall, asking after her journey to the capital. Then, cutting to the chase, he tells her that he believes he’s dreamed of her - Elia is stunned. Rhaegar asks if Elia has had dreams of her own, Elia replies only the simple kind - but finds she is intrigued

Rhaegar doing his thing with the harp after the feast: Elia finding herself slightly swept up. Oberyn tries to translate some of the Valyrian lyrics as Rhaegar sings, finds they don’t make sense, but the POD only hushes him

After the feast: the Princess of Dorne goes to Rhaella’s chambers, bringing wine and hopes of a discreet chat. However, she finds Rhaella surrounded by chamber maids who won’t be dismissed. Conversation proceeds awkwardly and self-consciously, till the POD gives up

Meanwhile, Aerys in his solar; it’s late, but someone has arrived to meet him. A knock at the door, and Aerys is presented with Varys, whose work they’ve heard so much about.....

The following morning, in the Great Hall: Aerys announces a betrothal between his son and Princess Elia. Elia shy, POD proud, Tywin raging as ever, young Cersei raging right beside him… and Rhaegar, looking distant, like he expected this but something still isn’t quite right

Skip forward to the wedding itself: both Rhaegar and Elia look resplendent, as do all of their guests. When the new couple dance together, everything seems to click - but then we see Aerys sat at the head table, somehow looking worse than ever, tapping his hands erratically on the wood. His mood is only lifted when entertainment arrives in the form of two pyromancers, who have promised the assembled guests ‘dragonfire’. This comes in the form of wildfire, wrought like a nuclear firework display. The guests applaud, Aerys most vigorously

Later the same night, Rhaegar lies awake beside a sleeping Elia, staring at the ceiling. After a moment he rises, and goes to a castle by the window. Faintly, he waves his hand over the flame, and winces slightly when it burns

[lemonhemlock]

My all time favorite angle of the Valyrian gods versus the Faith debate, is that a lot of the fics/takes around it by Team Black seem to like the Old Gods (which fair enough, I too like the creepy trees. team stark 5ever) or at least play lip service to it to make the Faith of Seven seem less cool (no one has the vision for how insane fantasy Catholicism can be except for GRRM himself) but also including Targaryen characters being respectful/kinda into the Old Gods, which KILLS me. I blame the wildly non-canonical weirwood in the Red Keep’s godswood in the show. It drives me INSANE. What is that doing there!!!!!! The Red Keep has no weirwood!!! Who planted it there???? You telling me that Maegor or Jaehaerys took the time to plant a weirwood for the Old Gods???? If I see one more fic where a Targaryen marries someone not of the old gods under a weirwood tree I’m going to kill someone.

I’m SO defensive of the weirwoods because I know none of them have delved into the fucked up human sacrifices that likely created weirwoods plus the rich symbolism that they create (hello Sansa in the Eyrie, I love you), the erasure of the North-South religious and cultural divide, and acting like the Targs would be so cool with the Old Gods for no reason is driving me nuts.

I just hate the show’s weirwood tree, it makes no sense. I will never find peace as long as I keep seeing scenes from the show set under it.

(Sorry for being insane in your inbox again )

Don't worry about it, your inbox drops lead to interesting discussions! 💚

Totally agree with you on the Old Gods & the unsavory blood ritualistic imagery (like hanging entrails from the branches of weirwood trees). I mean, it may sound heavy metal, but if we're supposed to be critical about religion,* this should definitely come under the magnifying glass, too. As is the super creepy idea that Bloodraven is spying on everyone using the weirwoodnet and manipulating historical events like that.

I also don't see why Targaryens should be Old Gods fanboys either - what could they possibly gain from this? It's such a fanon interpretation, because the old religion doesn't have any organized structure that could act as a political actor. There's this projection happening, because Christianity has flaws IRL and a fraught history, when people encounter its fantasy equivalent, they automatically think any other religion is better. I'm waiting for Cult of Starry Wisdom acolytes to come out of the woodwork and preach how much better Nyarlathotep is than the Seven Gods puts together.

As for the godswood in the Red Keep - Ned tells us it has an ancient, huge oak. That kind of tree can only grow like that over a very long period of time. There's no mention of a weirwood in KL that could have been cut down; also I don't think you can plant weirwood trees? Else I think people would do it more often in the North. I honestly think it's there just for nostalgia reasons for the audience. Though I wonder if George agreed with this addition and why. Maybe the lack of a weirwood in KL was an in-universe limitation he imposed on Bloodraven's power?

*at least that's what they think they're doing, by writing all these critical essays on how problematic the Faith is, but they never bother to do a comparative analysis with the other religions available in-universe. Or they peddle their own headcanons as fact, like how supposedly Valyrian society would have been so much less sexist than Faith-worshippers, ergo their religion should reflect that.

[agentrouka-blog]

A)What do you think of the possibility of ned/ashara love given they're described as looking similar to jon/dany & we know these two will hookup, even though sansa will be his great love. Why do you think ned reacted so strongly to cat when she mentioned her name?? Also it's possible that ned never knew that ashara was pregnant as he only meets her at the end of the war. So he never knew it was his child that was killed at KL. Barristan doesn't hold anything against ned as ashara's lover in his

B) his POV. So he thinks it's Brandon. But I feel like it's a red herring- perhaps a misunderstanding at harrenhal. I read a theory that ashara was the paramour of lewyn martell. Maybe seeing ashara in love with ned, he might have tried to dishonor her & the martells tried to cover it up from rhaegar by falsely blaming Brandon( knowing the STAB bloc forming against targs). Rhaegar after falsely assuming that Brandon has done something inappropriate to his bff(Arthur)sister(even if the assumption

C) could be violation or Brandon just seducing ashara & then dumping her even though he's engaged to cat) could also be the one of the many reasons R crowns L( to stick it to Brandon who was right beside her "I know what u did to ashara"). I think the whole thing with barbery dustin was to let the readers know that cat dodged a bullet wrt to Brandon & Brandon's general image. Most people would assume B as A's lover, not the shy quiet Ned(except the select few inner circle). Also ned never thinks

D) badly about Brandon who apparently slept with his crush. I think N/A would be similar dynamic to jon/ygritte & upcoming j/dany dynamic- more teenage puppy lots of sex with betrayals on both sides. And J/sansa would be like ned/cat. I see similarities b/w A/N/C love triangle with dany/j/sansa. I think N/A were definitely a thing. I don't think anything happened b/w A & Brandon. I also think A is lemore.

Hi anon!

I suppose I already right off the bat disagree with a number of assumptions going into this ask, so I'll do that and explain how this informs my own guesses of that backstory. :)

We don't actually have any evidence that Ned even had a crush on Ashara, let alone slept with her. We know that they danced together after Brandon asked Ashara because Ned was "too shy to leave his bench", not "too shy to ask his crush" to dance. We know the rumors about them started because he returned the sword to Starfall after killing her brother. If Ned had had a crush on Ashara let alone slept with her, you'd think Robert would mention that to him before he brings up some peasant woman named Wylla? Ned literally never thinks about her EVER. The only one spreading that information as fact is a twelve-year-old nephew who never met her and is also spreading blatantly false information about Jon's mother being Wylla. Hmm.

We do not know that Jon and Dany are going to hook up. The fact that the show went that route makes it show canon, not book canon, and we know they were willing to be Very Flexible with shifting storylines around.

Ashara has a vague resemblance with Dany through the purple eyes, but her hair is actually dark, unlike that of her nephew Edric Dayne. The visual you get with her and Brandon might as well be reminiscent of Brandon and dark-haired Barbrey, you know? Less so of Jon and Dany.

Ashara was not the paramour of Lewyn Martell. That one is described as "an old woman now", so her identity is known and she is officially alive. But even that would be more credible than shy and honorable Eddard Stark having premarital sex with a highborn lady at a tourney, no matter how willing. That whole assumption is so out of character for him! We know people think it's hilariously unlikely that he fathered a bastard, and the only reason they believe it is because, well, there's a bastard that looks like him. Remove that "proof" and you have an Eddard who is exactly what is says on the tin: shy and honorable. Know who's described as "never shy about taking what he wanted"? Brandon. In the context of sleeping with a highborn maiden. Maybe it doesn't have to be as complicated as you're making it. Maybe it's as simple as Barristan thinking "Stark" dishonored Ashara and it's the one who has a history of doing exactly that.

If Ashara and Ned had parallels to Jon and Ygritte, Ashara would have forced herself on Ned and he'd have been filled with self-blame and shame. There is no "teenage puppy love", there's an abusive relationship. Which would STILL make more sense than Ned willingly having premarital sex with a highborn girl. There is no Ashara/Ned/Catelyn triangle. The whole point and irony is that the woman Ned "loved fiercely" is his sister, Jon's mother.

Not going into that bit about Rhaegar because that makes absolutely zero sense. If you think some Lord's heir assaulted your wife's lady in waiting, you don't solve that by shaming your wife and that guy's sister in a huge public scandal. Especially with fragile politics in the background.

Why do you think ned reacted so strongly to cat when she mentioned her name??

Because Catelyn is inquiring in the direction of the origins of Jon Snow, and Ned is panicking. If he had had a relationship with Ashara, nothing would be easier or smarter than opening up about it to Catelyn in this moment. She is clearly trying to forge a connection there, to find common ground and ease the tension between them. Instead, Ned shuts it down harshly, demands her sources and then shuts those down, too. That's not the actions of a man grieving his lost love with the wife he clearly already cares for. This is a man having a knee-jerk panic-driven reaction to make sure he never has to answer any questions in this direction that might lead to revealing his secret or getting caught in contradictions. Because, you know, Lyanna. Being the mother of his fake bastard. The whole point.

I also think A is lemore.

I do agree with that, at least!

Basically, no, I just think it's incredibly unlikely that Ned ever slept with Ashara, and questionable if he ever had a crush on her. Brandon sleeping with a highborn maiden at a tourney is far more likely, because he has a history of doing that. If a Stark is the father of Ashara's child, it's going to be Brandon. Which is something Ned may never have even found out about. A secret he is likely privy to is Ashara's involvement in the baby switch and her caring for Aegon. Why else would the Dayne's be covering for Ned when it comes to Jon Snow's parentage, unless they are tied together in secrecy?

Trying to turn that into evidence that Jon and Dany are going to be a thing, let alone a "puppy love" thing, or that there will be a love triangle of some kind is a bit of a stretch.

[duncan-rohanne]

do you think alicole will have more scenes together or is it over? do you think they will make alicent grieve for him or just not show anything?

i honestly don't have an answer for any of these because i don't know where the show is going. even with what we know about episode7, i have no idea what will be in episode 8. condal kinda said on sdcc that there will be no big sequence in the final episode and it's also said that because they had to cut this season to 8 episodes, the next battle will be moved to season 3. tho - is it the fall of king's landing or the battle of gullet?

(let me remind you, that the show kind of forgot that gwayne is supposed to be in KL not on a roadtrip with criston)

but in my opinion? i'm doom and gloom when it comes to this show, so no, i don't think they will see each other again (which actually would be fine and canon, but you would think they'd make their last scenes more meaningful? but i digress.) i do think alicent will grieve him tho , for at least one scene that hotd characters are allowed to grieve their loved ones, but yeah, i think she will.

[standardlovers]

I want to hear about castor acklys

HI BEST FRIENDS I LOVE U BEST FRIENDS <33

castor is my oc who was invented when one time i was listening to preachers daughter and decided i wanted to make a plot that had an album style set up (i am not involved in music and do not make music), the main character dying & a complex sibling dynamic! it started off by outlining 2 albums which are the canon timeline (Saviour's Secret & Brother Of The Sky (Extended)) and then added 2 more for a lighter alternate ending (Husband & Keeper's Lover) but then there was a 3rd alternate ending created (Something Like God) and a final conclusion to castor's story in an album created at the same time as SLG (Gravesite)

it is supposed to have the vibes of southern gothic but its not southern! this all actually happening in britain! but still. GOTHIC, its dark, it has unpleasant themes

HERE ARE SOME WARNINGS BEFORE GOING FORWARD: THIS CONTAINS BRIER DISCUSSION OF KIDNAPPING, DEATH/MURDER, CULTS AND MENTIONS OF ABUSE

the album order is SS (aka C1), BOTS(E), H (aka C3), KL, Gravesite, then SLG and the album titles are all reflective or Castor's "identity"/viewing himself through the connections he has with other people, its not until Castor is dead that he defines himself by anything other than his connection to someone else (or he joins a cult and believes he is Something like God bc thats how cults can be sometimes)

as shown below there is one timeline that doesnt have an album ! there is an album i dont have written (and honestly dont intend to write atm) about castors life if he ran away AND found The Star again

these are also all of the tracks for the first 4 albums (im on mobile so i dont have the other 2 album tracklist available rn until i go home tomorrow night)

i can and will go into each song but probably not in this post bc it is 10+ tracks on 4 albums which will be a lot of me talking but heres what you should know !

NAMES:

i took a long time deciding character names so i will be explaining them (hyperlinked w the characters tag)

Castor Acklys is a star name (which i very much wanted for symbolic connections to other characters specifically The Star & Nova) + Acklys (from Achlys) is the blindness over someones eyes when they die + (from Achley) being the mythological personification of sorrow

The Star does have a name but that information is on lockdown you arent supposed to know their name and i personally do not even know their gender , but there is symbolism in BOTS(E) abt Castor seeing "The Stars" when he dies, he however dies at 2pm so there are no stars in the sky, he is hallucinating both the night sky and his sibling being present

Charles Mercy Charles is shortened to Chuck then Chuckle (as in laugh) and Mercy bc he is supposed to be the saviour (bonus tag Mercklys)

Abram is from Abam which is a feminine name meaning the second in a pair of twins and also i did just read AFTG when i started working on this project so i may have been influenced there (bonus tag CAbram)

Nova is an astrological name + means New (bonus tag CastorNova)

Dalilah Fare comes from Dalil which means guide but also means witness and Fare to represent the fare paid to ride into the underworld

Victor E. Casement bc Victor means conqueror and Casement means God's protector (bonus tag Victonna)

Donna Casement is supposed to be overwhelmingly normal and Donna was a very popular name for i think the 1960s when she would have been born, Casement is her married name and smth she carries from Victor

Irma means whole/complete

Winifred means holy/blessed reconciliations and is the patron saint of virgins

Calamity bc when i googled it, it said that "despite meaning disaster most people take Calamity from Calamity Jane meaning someome good to have in troubled times (idk if i have a calamity tag)

Alice was similar to Donna where its just a popular name from the time she would have been born

Simon just felt like a 1934 name

Angie , same as above

Kory genuinely bc I liked the name and it suited how i picture her in my head

THE TIMELINES:

the acklysverse is split into 3 timelines

1934

Dalilah Fare runs away to marry her lover Simon, she is sadly kidnapped and killed. This leaves behind her lover Simon and her younger sister Angie, who get married! (dw, Dalilah is very happy for them!)

1984: 50 years later,

Castor is the younger sibling after his sibling (The Star) runs away and is presumed dead. C1 & BOTS(E) (canon timeline) are following Castor's life before and leading up to The Star leaving, including Castor falling in love with Charles Mercy (the leading romance in C1!), Charles is very sweet and charming but has a bit of a saviour complex. He believes everything will always be okay because, for him, it always has been, and Castor's life issues (abusive family, flight risk sibling, confusing sexuality crisis, etc, etc.) will eventually just stop, he genuinely believes he can save Castor but the thing is he cant. Castor knows this and wants to cut his losses early but feels torn abt hurting Charles since Charles has not yet come to terms with not being able to help Castor. C1 ends with their break up after Castor has known for a while that it is not going to work out and Charles finally realises the same.

This is the first album bc its the first time Castor uses the song/album set up to explore his emotions on the situation. So BOTS(E) reflects on Castor's life as whole. I like to call it The Life and Death of Castor Acklys. This explores Castor realising his home life is unhealthy and then he loses The Star bc they run away which causes even more fall out. Living in an abusive household he decides he can not stay in and realising this is probably what drove The Star to leave, so he also runs away less than a year later and is also sadly, kidnapped from a bus stop and killed. The Extended of this album is one of my favourite ways the albums communicate anything bc BOTS is Castor's life and (E) is Castor's death, all extended tracks are post mortem.

Skipping forward a few albums bc the others are Alt84 (see below) we get to Gravesite ! This is the return of Dalilah <3 and the reveal that Dalilah's ghost has been here the whole time. Dalilah's death is cosmicly interconnected to Castor's (more on this later) and she has been watching his life happen since Castor was 13 when the events began that would lead to his death began being set into play by the universe. Gravesite is Castor's death and welcoming to the afterlife from Dalilah's perspective of trying to stop this all from happening! We also learn that Dalilah's death is almost a perfect mirror of Castor's, in the same location, by the same cause of death, same last words, same final regrets. They are soulmates in the most intimate but tragic sense.

Alternate 1984

Alt 1: C3 + KL,

Alternately, Castor never runs away. In a different time in a different life, Castor stays and gets married before he's 20 to Abram. Abram is amazing and perfect and Castor is deeply unhappy bc he doesn't want Abram as a husband but marrying him got Castor away from his home and into a life that was 100% his own. Abram loves Castor deeply and romantically and without any strings attached and Castor cant understand why he cant just love Abram back when all he wants is a friend (and maybe a little bit still trying to fill in the hole The Star left when they left) but will take Abram as a lover to avoid losing yet another person he loves. During their marriage, Castor meets Nova <3 a shopkeeper he begins to fall for and have an affair with. C3 ends with Castor and Abram's divorce and Castor trying to process a lot of things he has to deal with. KL then explores Castor's first 100% healthy and reciprocated relationship and unpacking and reevaluating everything he has come to know bc he lacked those healthy relationships !

ALT 2: SLG

Instead of being killed, Castor still runs away but chooses to walk to a different more active bus stop hoping it will delay his family who may look for him from actually knowing where he went. At this bus stop he meets Victor E. Casement, a current cult leader but ex professor. He slowly warms to Victor over a few weeks and ends up diving head first into said cult, where we see the inner workings of this cult through Castor's eyes as he becomes friends with Donna, Victor's wife.

2004

You may be thinking "hey if everyones dead and 2004 follows canon how could there be anything to happen next? is this another alternative?" well! 2004 does follow canon! in a morbid way! 2004 follows canon in terms of the fact that Castor was only the main character of his timeline!

THERES A BACKGROUND PLOT WITH THE MURDERERS!

The man who killed Dalilah is in fact the great uncle (grandmothers brother) of the man who killed Castor! This information about a family history of murder was not passed along but was found in Dalilah's killers old jounrals and then replicated by Castor's killer. The time jump is much smaller now bc that information has been passed on directly, Castor's killer talks to his child about his crimes and it is replicated in 2004 with the next in line, Kory. Kory is also cosmicly interconnected to Dalilah and Castor who are doomed to repeat the cycle of trying and failing to save the next victim. And its almost identical again, another soulmate !

SIDE CHARACTERS:

Irma : Castor's best friend who dies shortly after The Star leaves, the cause of death is never specified but her absense is smth he feels strongly about

Winifred : Castor's mother *was maternal grandmother for a while but that was altered as the plot developed

Alice : A cult member and Victor's friend since before they were a cult

Angie Fare : Dalilah's sister and Nova's grandmother

Simon : Dalilah's ex lover & brother in law, and Nova's grandfather

Calamity : Castor's maternal cousin

[atopvisenyashill]

If Rhaenys was the Queen, do you think Laenor and Rhaenyra would still be matched and, more importantly, would Rhaenyra have had children with Harwin Strong? Because that feels so much more dangerous.

i mean THATS THE MILLION DOLLAR QUESTION RIGHT.

okay so @riana-one said in a reply that i can't fucking find now that most likely, in the case that one of Viserys & Aemma’s kids still lived, that Laenor would marry Rhaenyra and Laena would marry the boy, and imo I think that’s likely in the case that Rhaenys ascends and becomes Queen Regnant. TBH the fact that Rhaenys and Viserys didn’t marry was kinda stupid (i mean, these people don’t need to be MORE inbred but like, what’s the point of all the incest marrying if you’re not using that to combine the claims of competing lines? but then again, we all know the reason is misogyny and purposefully cutting rhaenys' competing claim out of the family tree to ~put her in her place~). I think Rhaenys & Corlys are perfectly astute enough to realize their best option is to combine their line with Viserys.

HOWEVER. There’s a few important factors in Laenor being Prince of Dragonstone and marrying Rhaenyra that change the plot as well as their characters-

LAENOR is the Crown Prince, not Rhaenyra as Crown Princess which means there’s more pressure on Laenor himself to actually, ya kno, attempt to consummate the marriage than there is in the og canon where it’s very vague as to whether Laenor attempted to have legitimate children with Rhaenyra or whether she was so mad about the match she simply refused to bed him and Laenor went “cool idgaf” (bc….like all of his behavior in canon points to Laenor simply not giving a shit about how Rhaenyra got pregnant, and perhaps they even mutually disliked each other!)

Rhaenyra is so cavalier about having bastards specifically because her father is King and will protect her from the pushback (or so she hopes). If it’s Laenor’s mother that’s ruling Queen, that’s a much different scenario where Rhaenyra knows she’s not going to have backup.

Is Harwin even still at KL? He’s there in canon because Lyonel is on the small council and he needs to Be Useful In The City but if it’s RHAENYS who is Queen that means SHES picking her Small Council (or, I suppose, Corlys is picking her small council). How she got her crown is going to factor into what her Small Council looks like - if Aemon never died and passed the crown to his daughter he spent years acclaiming as his heir and fighting to protect her rights, that Council will look different than if the GC 101 chose her over Viserys (and how is Jae taking that), and THAT TOO looks different than if like, Viserys and Daemon both die and now the crown MUST pass to a female line. For all we know, she makes Boremund her Master of Laws because he’s been her number one supporter her whole life & he’s her dear uncle!

Rhaenyra’s life looks infinitely different if she’s raised as a daughter of a man with no seat. She might not even grow up in KL; again, depending on how Rhaenys comes to her throne, it’s possible Viserys & his family aren’t even welcome there the way Rhaenys & Jocelyn are effectively banned from KL after Jaehaerys usurps them, or that Viserys would feel awkward in KL the way both Rhaena's did. Would Rhaenys work something out with Viserys so he can live at Court or be the castellan of Dragonstone? Does Viserys decide to take Rhaenyra & Aemma and fuck off to the Vale (and does that bring Daemon to the Vale and are they welcome there??). The point there is, Rhaenyra’s childhood looking so different is going to affect the way she approaches sex, marriage, and children. I mean, if Viserys never remarries Alicent, or Aemma doesn’t die, that negates a lot of the hang ups Rhaenyra has later in life!

SO! Yes, I think it’s likely Laenor and Rhaenyra still marry. Does Rhaenyra have children with Harwin? It’s very hard to say! Because she’s not the crown princess, she doesn't have her father to cover for her, and it is legitimately treason if she's caught fucking someone else (as opposed to her fucking Harwin as Crown Princess, that's a gray area because she is the one the line descends from, not Laenor). At the same time, Rhaenyra grows up in circumstances where a woman is allowed to inherit the Iron Throne due to ~something~ and grows up as the daughter of a man without his own seat which will inevitably change Rhaenyra's outlook on her own life. Plus, if Corlys and Rhaenys are breathing down Laenor's neck and going "you need to actually attempt to fuck your wife Laenor and stop ignoring her to fuck stable boys" that may prompt more action from Laenor, not to mention that with Rhaenys and Corlys as rulers, they have a lot more say over whatever the fuck is going on in that marriage because it's happening right under their noses.

Corlys, meanwhile, does not have the motivation to simply pretend the boys are legitimate. He has the throne. He has the power. D While I don't think he would push for Rhaenyra to be straight up executed for cheating on Laenor (that is going to piss her father, uncle, and maybe mother OFF), he is not going to help her cover for it the way he does in the series.

So....IF Laenor still finds himself incapable of having children, the ting is that Rhaenys and Corlys are going to push more aggressively on Rhaenyra. Maybe this means they are stricter with Laenor (not allowing him the freedom to have male lovers at court perhaps?) OR it means Rhaenyra becomes desperate enough that she attempts to fuck someone else. The thing here is - if Rhaenyra knows its her head if she's found out, will she try to be discreet and fuck someone who is blond? Or even fuck Daemon?? Is Harwin even at court? It's hard to say! Certainly, I can see Rhaenyra feeling desperate enough to try to get pregnant through other means besides Laenor but I'm not sure she would go straight to Harwin in this scenario!

[esther-dot]

So re Jon's legitimacy v. bastardy conversation. FWIW, when the annulment/marriage plot point was revealed in season 7, Linda of Elio and Linda fame, had a twitter conversation with another user and Linda basically implied she was skeptical of the annulment because it wouldn't fit in-universe rules and a poly-marriage would have made more sense as there is "precedent" for that (because ya know targs are going to targ). Linda and Elio are essentially GRRM's canon fact checkers so I found that interesting. Also, in one of Jaime's flashbacks I think, this was after the rebellion popped off and R decided to show his face in KL I suppose (so I'm assuming after any alleged marriage took place/after L got knocked up), he told Jaime something to the effect that he was putting "my wife and children" in your hands/care (which lmao). So he did still refer to E as his wife which I know, I know the bar is in hell. Don't get me wrong, R is POS but I do think in his warped mind he did care for E, didn't think he humiliated beyond comprehension (yet again, lmao), and loved his children. Also, wasn't he obsessed with the "dragon having three heads" so I don't think in his mind he intended to throw away E and their children (I'm not saying I agree with that sentiment myself) but in terms of GRRM's authorial intent I think this is where he was getting at.

(in reference to this convo)

Oh, thank you for that info, anon! I’ve never followed those people closely but I’ve certainly heard them mentioned a lot, and know Martin considers them kinda experts on his world. (How weird is it to think about reminding the author of what he has written!) I’ve been struck by some of Martin’s comments to fans about them thinking about a certain thing more than he has or his recent comment about how he’s making things up as he goes along and felt that as fans, we look at things on a very strict/nailed down kinda way, whereas for him, the endpoint for our mains are fixed, but he’s exploring his world and developing it as he goes. Something I find so interesting is that he’s chosen to write about the past and the future, unfolding things as we read that change what we know, that mean what we know isn't.

With the entire fandom agreeing about R+L=J, it's easy to forget that technically, it's still a mystery being spun-out. To me, it is so omnipresent, it requires plot significance ie I feel that Jon will need to be trueborn and deal with the consequences of having a claim, but Martin has such a unique twist on things, it's hard to know which way that goes. He could take it mostly negative, the purpose be to derail Jon's life-- a subversion of how the hidden prince trope usually plays out-- and it be the means to dethrone him, not give him a happy ending. As in, say Jon is accepted as a legitimized Stark, becomes KitN, and then suddenly, this revelation. Usually unexpected parentage reveals result in a crown, Martin could decided to use it to take one away. After all, Robb wrote that will thinking Jon was his father’s son, and it seems to me that as understandable as his choice was in the moment (fears about the Lannisters getting Winterfell), I have to think Martin won’t “reward” it in the narrative by having it play out nice and neat. That solution seems destined to create chaos when we think of the R/L bombshell.

This:

Don't get me wrong, R is POS but I do think in his warped mind he did care for E

is something I've wondered about. Here is the line that I think you’re remembering:

Prince Rhaegar burned with a cold light, now white, now red, now dark. "I left my wife and children in your hands."                 

"I never thought he'd hurt them." Jaime's sword was burning less brightly now. "I was with the king . . ." (ASOS, Jaime VI)

which I think speaks more to Jaime’s feelings of failure/guilt than to Rhaegar’s perception of Elia since elsewhere there’s a mention of it being Aerys who wanted Jaime in KL. And yet, the way Martin writes about Rhaegar in different POVs and some of his comments made me think he feels very differently than I do about the character. The way Elia and Rhaenys' deaths are placed primarily on Tywin and The Mountain's heads which is true, except, none of that would have happened if Rhaegar hadn't set the whole catastrophe into motion with the Lyanna mess means I find the guy an absolute loser. I just can’t get past poor little Rhaenys hiding under his bed, thinking her father might save her when her father had run off with another woman in pursuit of an additional child. I suppose, the story is showing the dangers of being guided by prophecy and creating our own destruction, but in the words on the page, I don’t see the contempt that I feel for Rhaegar. 

So yeah, I have my feelings and I try to differentiate between them and what Martin intended the takeaway to be.

[leakinghate]

All I need to know is WHY? Why did they do this?

I’ve gotten more than a few asks with this question, and I assure you: if I knew I’d tell you. But, this is the big question, and I do have a theory. So here we go.

I’m sorry. I was hesitant to publish this. Some of you aren’t going to like this answer.

I want to stress that this is all simply my opinion, a theory. It’s my best guess as to ‘Why’ when taking into account all the evidence currently available. Please do not take this as absolute truth, and please do not harass anyone who disagrees with it or thinks differently.

If you’re just here to tell me I’m wrong and that kl is/was supposed to be ‘canon king’ I’m simply going to delete your message: consider this your warning and stop reading. To my friends that ship kl: I’m sorry, this isn’t an attack on your ship, I just don’t think it was going to be canon.

To start with: was the censorship, and the vile messages it resulted in, intentional?

No. I don’t think so.

I did at first, but after mulling it over a bit more, I’ve changed my mind on that.

Thing is? This is so disgustingly callous, that for it to have been intentional, whoever was responsible would have to be a monster. No, this wasn’t done by a creative. Someone who understands stories wouldn’t have made something this sloppy. The people who made this call are the sorts who mistake symbols as content, like a kiss with an unnamed extra as representation.

This has the cold dispassionate stink of marketing all over it.

I think this was about the toys.

Voltron was always a Toy™ property. When VLD was put into production they sold the toy rights to the same company that made the toys back in the 80′s, and that company turned out some updated versions of the toys they’d made back then. I don’t doubt DW was banking on moving a good deal of merch with bankrolling VLD. Unfortunately for them, this isn’t the 80′s anymore; they completely missed the mark on their actual audience right out of the gate and were then hamstrung by the rights contract which they either had to wait to expire or buy out before trying again.

Dreamworks’ marketing department has no idea how to handle a show like VLD, with a fanbase like this. VLD was nominally aimed at boys age 7-ish, but the fanbase it attracted was Fandom: overwhelmingly female and minority viewers in their mid teens and older.The people who wrote VLD understood this; the people who financed it didn’t. The market for toys has changed, and the same cheap plastic, ugly, poorly made figures aren’t going to cut it anymore.

They tried to switch track and market to the adult fans while they waited for the toy rights to return to them, but this attempt was manifested as jewelry. Very expensive jewelry.

A second misstep.

By now we’re sometime between June and August, VLD is 2/3rds aired, rapidly approaching Season 7, has a ravenous and toxic fanbase, and has completely failed to turn a profit. Extra money was already pumped into the show for rewrites to season 7 to include characters to base a spin off around (this happened circa s2′s airing, when the show suddenly got huge and popular - so when s7 was in the early stages of animation), but with things as they are it’s looking like that’s going to be a waste of an investment.

So they brought in some marketing people to look it over and advise changes to make the show more profitable. Season 7 is coming too fast for any but the most minor of changes, Season 8 is either completely finished or very near so. There’s no time to re-script, re-animate, re-record.

They took a look at what was coming in the final season, and they took a look into the fandom. What could be adjusted in this tiny timeframe, with the fewest amounts of edits and alterations, to appeal to the maximum amount of the audience?

They ordered adjustments accordingly.

I think it started out as marketing, but the things marketing advised, and that were ultimately enforced, amounted to censorship.

What is the loudest, most prominent, most obnoxious group of fans?What fans disrupted not one, but two con question panels with inane queries about their favorite character not being enough of a ‘hero’?

Look at what we did get. The stuff that came out of nowhere and made no sense: a//urance as endgame, Altean Lance - with marks the exact colors that the fanarts use (even though they don’t match his color scheme), a heavily Lance based season - and one in which Lance is the recipient of constant praise and encouragement, Shiro and Keith acting like they barely know each other, Lotor the only explicitly unredeemed villain, Lance and Keith both ending the series single with Lance very clearly no longer pursuing romance with women, Shiro married and unavailable.

They couldn’t make kl*nce canon, because the copyright holders of the legacy characters wouldn’t approve of it. What they could do was what they did. Removing all the Shiro and Keith scenes, giving Lance the girl. Making Lance the central focus of the final season. Langst.

Lance and Keith are the only two characters who have extensive personal scenes this season.

Allura and Lotor were casualties of making Lance the hero; because marketing advised DW to appeal to the lowest common denominator fan.

But these marketers are outsiders, and don’t really understand fandom. because this wasn’t what fandom wanted at all.

This is what I think. I think this is kl*ntis by way of marketing.

All the absolutely disgusting messages? Were an accident. A byproduct of removing the intended subversions. Whoever did this wasn’t very smart, and hadn’t realized the depth of story the writers were telling.

So when they switched it, and kept Lance with Allura, they played the intended subversion straight. But because it was intended to be subverted, it’d been written a little obviously regressive. To make it obvious. So we could pick up on it. So it would feel right when it was subverted.

But it wasn’t.

So Lance didn’t get to grow.

And Allura and Lotor didn’t get to live.

This is why I’m convinced that there’s a real s8 out there to get.

The good news in this, is that if I’m right - if this was ultimately a decision designed to appeal to the fans - then there’s a really good chance that DreamWorks will release the real s8. Whereas, if it was intentional censorship, then the chances would be very low.

Big companies like DreamWorks listen to three things: Profit, PR, and Personal Beliefs. The hardest one to combat is the last, so if we can rule it out we’re in a much better position. And I think we can. It’s very difficult for fans to make change with Profit, because we are so small individually, and because in this particular case they already weren’t making any money off VLD.So our best avenue of attack is PR. If we make a lot of noise about the toxic messages the altered season is sending, and remember to keep shipping out of it, we can convince them to release the original cut. They want us to shut up? They have two options: wait for the interest to die down, or give us what we want. We need to prove that we’re not going away.The future stretches ever onward; they need to ignore us for eternity.

All we need is one single, solitary yes.

[horizon-verizon]

It's amazing how you talk about misogyny to mask your own misogyny towards a female character. You think you can end your ridiculous essay with "she's just empty and not compelling" then blame it to sexism and the writers. All you have to say is you hate that they gave Helaena a compelling ability that you wish your favs have. Have you actually seen the next seasons of this show to know they're not doing anything with her character and the dreamer ability itself? You know you're going to be so disappointed with your wishes. You're just seething they didn't give show Dany the dreamer ability and projecting your spite towards Helaena. So transparent.

Well this is awkward.

You're just seething they didn't give show Dany the dreamer ability and projecting your spite towards Helaena.

Let's say that them not giving show Dany her canon dragon dreams was part of my thoughts when I was writing the post you respond to.

Dany actually had dreams...while canon Helaena, you and no one can ever prove that she did, so the real question is why is there a discrepancy in your mind as to why Dany shouldn't/couldn't have her canonical dreams while a less important character like Helaena should/could? Makes no sense.

I don't really care or feel strong emotions for or about Helaena bc she doesn't do much. Not because she is on the green side and little to do with her own choice in the matter. GRRM clearly uses her to make other characters compare Helaena to Rhaenyra, the Shepherd, the coming Dragonpit disaster, the degredation of Rhaenyra's control over KL, etc.

Also, why do you think it' a good thing or acceptable that they removed Dany's dreams, which are critical to understanding her arc, the Targs, the climatic catastrophe that is the Others, AND as this is a fantasy series...we need magical elements?! So, back to the discrepancy, I rather think it is you who is showing a bit of sexism: bc unlike Helaena, Dany is not a girl-woman who succumbs to the patriarchal violence but fights back and is going to enact revolutionary violence. If you say "Dany is an incest child", you should know that so are a lot of Westerosi people AND Dany is still that revolutionary, anti-exploitation figure.

It doesn't sound like you care much about "truth" or bigotry, so much as you are entertained and validated in the bigotry you already carry.

Have you actually seen the next seasons of this show to know they're not doing anything with her character and the dreamer ability itself? You know you're going to be so disappointed with your wishes.

If it takes 2 seasons to properly distinguish a character (aside from establishing that they have an ability) as to what kind of person they are and that you had since the second half of the first, you've done something wrong. So, yes, HotD dropped the ball and it does have to do with sexism either on the writers or the execs, like how Legend of Korra wasn't given as much of a chance as it should have been. Whether bc of production stuff or imagination. Espec since there have been characters people actually made into real people in just s few scenes (the rest going off from that point) and that has not happened for Helaena yet...when it should have in the first season. And if you say "bc studios and execs are cutting down stuff for costs", then that just hammers in the point that this is not a good story bc it was not allowed to breathe and develop. It's just unearned spectacle after spectacle.

Right now, Helaena is still just a person who says stuff and people ignore or to characterize/reflect more on Aegon and Jacaerys (dance scene).

All you have to say is you hate that they gave Helaena a compelling ability that you wish your favs have.

If you only talk of Dany, no, already explained above. If you mean the blacks, no, bc i think that no one should be having dragon dreams amongst them. This is supposed to be an uncommon ability and none of the characters of the orig canon Dance story show signs of having these dreams. I'd rather we focus on story given. The anon who's ask I link first above reminded me of Duncan (Maekar's son) and Patchface and how this adaptation could have made their Helaena more interesting while keeping her dragon dreaming. I still prefer the canon a little more, but with their post, I'm much more amenable to vision-having!Helaena as long as she's the only dragon dreamer and she has actual dreams and not Raven-Symone visions where she's fully awake for them. You can go check that post out. Or don't, not my issue.

[ikimaru]

I'm hoping so gods dang badly that they don't mess up the live-action movie... at least, not AS bad as the episodes. If they do, I'm gonna cry SO HARDD- your art is literally my comfort within the fandom! (Not me also secretly hoping that klance could be canon but also knowing that it will never be... q-q)

I'm trying to remember of any live action adaptations that turned out well and I can't think of any right off the bat hahaa especially when it's supposed to be a series and they make it a movie (cough Atla cough)

also we've been waiting for the pjo and atla new adaptations for years so I'll believe it when I see it 👁️👁️

my only hope it there's some good memes at least (and thank you so much!! ;v; lol if there's no kl I will draw it myself)