#if you know what otherkin are there's your context

[tadpoles-and-daydreams]

apparently I'm just sillyposting today

I love writing fanfic bc I can just do whatever the fuck I want. Like, the genshin fic I'm writing right now is half "LOOK AT MY FAVORITE CHARACTERS" and half "how many amphithere* traits can I project onto the sea dragon character?"

One side character is fantasy pagan and literally worships the old gods. Which is funny bc the dragon guy is one of said old gods. Imagine if you were chilling and suddenly your deity just showed up one day, flesh and blood, and they were actually an eldritch horror.

[indornaga]

Hey, Lets Talk About Therian Gatekeeping.

If you've ever seen my work, you know that I'm a very inclusionist therian. People & creatures who have read my work or been to one of my presentations of Therian: Dispelling the Earthen Animal Myth have been very receptive of the information and have passed it on to others in the community that havent been so fortunate as to have experienced and learned along side me. There's still a lot of work to be done in this venture, and every person & creature who shares it is a crucial part of history.

So why does the "therian = earthen animal" belief exist and persist? My favorite theory is that there's a pervasive need to be seen as legitimate. Fictional and mythical animals arent seen as real, in their therian-worldview. Not real enough for exclusionists, and that theory is constantly reinforced by exclusionists who insist that inclusionists are the ones trying to rewrite the term's history.

Let me show you what I mean.

Here's a link to where I got this screenshot. Please note the date in the upper right hand corner of the screenshot. For context, this is from a thread on the community's originating website, Alt.Horror.WereWolves. This is the thread that originates our current usage of Therian/thrope/y. (The censored info is the members' real names. You can see them uncensored at the link, unfortunately. I've censored them here for privacy.)

As I see it, therianthropy applies to *any* human/animal form, regardless of history, powers, or other attributes.

The original defining discussion thread of therianthropy includes "any human/animal form". Gatekeepers are the ones in the wrong here.

There's an argument amongst exclusionists, "if therianthropy can extend to include non-earthen animals, what's the point of therianthropy as a concept?" For those who arent aware, although therianthropy and otherkinity significantly overlap in their experiences and the way those experiences are described, the two communities developed separately, with overlap in experience and terms used, depending on which of the two a member found first. It's so deeply ingrained in these exclusionists that therians can only be real animals, that they choose a narrow inclusion or non-existence.

On top of this, it's incredibly disturbing that these people & creatures are encouraging revisionist history by completely denying original, first hand sources that tell them they're wrong. They delete messages that inclusionists reply with, giving them these primary sources. So I'm here showing you the truth.

If you've been led to believe, threatened even, that you're "not a real therian" if you believe therians can be non-earthen animals, then I'm here holding your paw, telling you that your inclusion in a term/experience doesnt hinge on how well you uphold the standards of a few.

If you would like more reading about this, I have a whole essay, linked at the beginning of the post, with dozens of citations to primary sources about this issue. If you agree that "therian = earthen animal only", I challenge you to read the essay. Read and really analyze the sources linked there. Engage with your history in it's purest form, not from others telling you things. Learning and expanding your worldview is the most powerful way to grow as a person.

[rejectionofhumanity]

Since my last post about this kind of blew up, I’m going to take the opportunity and talk some more about red flag lists. Specifically, this red flag list posted in an otherkin community I’m part of. I’m not targeting this community specifically, I’m targeting red flag lists as a whole. This is just the one that was easiest for me to find.

Okay, let’s break this down, shall we?

-Claims to be an object: Objectkin exist. I know we exist because I am one. I’m a calculator. A calculator is typing this. Many of us are animists and believe in objects having souls (me included). And psychological objectkin exist too. You don’t get to pretend we’re all trolls because we don’t fit your idea of what otherkinity looks like.

-Size is unusual: I thought otherkin can be anything, including fictional creatures. If someone says, “My kintype is that I’m basically a wolf, but I’m the size of a house”, what right do I have to doubt that? Just because wolves that size don’t exist in real life doesn’t mean they can’t be a kintype. This point is just stupid.

-Claims a high number of kintypes with a majority fictional: Okay, what do you consider a high number? 10? 20? 30? Whatever number you pick is going to be completely arbitrary. What makes that number the number that should separate “valid” otherkin from “invalid” otherkin? Why do otherkin with high numbers of kintypes deserve to be separated? Tell me, in plain language, what is wrong with polykin. Oh, and why you hate fictionkin.

-Claims to be able to physically shift: This one I don’t know how much I can say on, because I don’t know much about the physically nonhuman community and am not a part of that community. But I do know that clinical lycanthropy and clinical zooanthropy exist. If any member of the physically nonhuman community wants to add anything, feel free.

-Implies wanting attention: Everyone wants attention. It’s how socializing works. You give someone attention and they give you attention in return. I clearly want attention. If I didn’t, I would keep all my alterhumanity thoughts inside my head instead of having a blog where other people can interact with my thoughts. And if need for attention becomes disordered, then you’re describing HPD. People with HPD can still be otherkin. Implying otherwise is ableist.

-Reacts defensively when questioned: Yes, otherkin should be able to calmly explain their kintypes. But what if you’re demanded to explain yourself day after day, and people still don’t believe you about your own experiences? Wouldn’t it be reasonable for you to get just a bit frustrated?! Are otherkin just expected to bottle up all that frustration?

-Mentions being unable to live in society: In what context do they mention this? There are many people with disabilities who are unable to live in our current society without a caregiver. Those disabled people… can be otherkin. Shocker. I myself don’t need a caregiver, but I do need many accommodations for me to be able to live in society the same way everyone else does. That’s just how being disabled is sometimes.

Anyway, rant over. I hope this cleared up why red flag lists are BS.

[a-dragons-journal]

Hi! Putting this on anon because it's a really weird thing even in kin circles, but it's not something I've seen many other people mention in the community.

I know phantom shifts are really quite common among otherkin. (I even get them very occasionally myself.) However I have only ever heard people talk about body parts that should be there but aren't--ears, tails, paws, etc. What I haven't heard anyone else mention, and I think I've been experiencing for quite some time (even if I only started labelling it as a 'phantom shift' very recently) is...a phantom ability, the slight sensation of being able to do something that, of course, you are unable to in your current body. For context, one of my highest kintypes has the ability to 'eject' their soul from their body, and for several years now when I'm feeling a particularly strong shift or emotion for any of my kintypes I'll get a phantom feeling like my spirit is tensing and quivering, trying to escape its current shell.

Have you or anyone else heard of this or something similar with another ability happening? It's such a strange thing, I'm not quite sure what to make of it...

(Apologies if this is rambling and slightly incoherent, I'm usually quite articulate but when it comes to kin things I've never been particularly good at expressing my experiences.)

I have actually heard of that once or twice - the deep sense that you should be able to do a certain kind of magic, for instance - but never a term for it. Not the only person I've heard talking about it, though.

[greenunoreversecard]

A/N: some lovely people explained in reblogs. I hope I do ur ask justice!!! Also I'm gunna do headcanons bc it wasn't specified, but I'm willing to make a one-shot as well, just lemme know! :)

Humans are boring->Alastor x platonic! Reader

Ok, so the title actually plays into how alastor reacts when you tell him

You fr go;"Yo alastor, I'm a therian/otherkin."

He responds;"what's that" and then after you explains goes "Yeah that's understandable, humans are boring and shitty"(Alastor, you realise you were human at one point, right?)

Anywhizzle

Luckily when you got to hell you manifested the animal you feel/identify with

If there's a couple your mix and matched

I also feel like demons can control how animalistic they look, like when al goes full demon he gets more deer characteristics

so same goes for you

I can Def see you lounging full animal and al walking in and just starts talkin to you. Only after he gets on you for getting fur (if furry) on the Furniture

but if theres many animals it's a Lil more tricky

i feel like if its more predominant to a species type like canine, feline, reptile etc etc, then you'd take a more basic form of the species, and then depending on the subtypes, like house cat, small lizards, etc, then you get more specific features so on and so Forth.

But if it's like.. two distinctly different types, like how husk is cat with bird wings, then its a mixy-match without really being able to go full animal mode.

Either way alastor is helping with getting the care items you need

oh, your species needs a specific shampoo? Done. Preening? He'll help but he won't be to fond of it bc of the elongated touching.

Want a item that will help dysphoria (is that the right term in this context?) About not having enough of the features? Dw pookie, he gotchu

I feel like those were more therian centered

So! If your a otherkin, I feel like it's not to Likely you'll manifest with a lot of characteristics, bc a lot of mystic creatures are a lil op, ngl

So you'll definitely look more human-esque

Think like ears, eyes, horns, wings and tail.

if it's water based youll prolly have gills and finger fins, as well as minor scaling and different colored skin

But i see the dysphoria worse with otherkins than therians, just bc of how manifesting seems to Look

Alastor stil helps with any and all care products you may need, even preening and when scales get funky.

If dysphoria kicks in bros cooking you food and peeling fruit but dont expect him to be a shoulder to cry on and for him to pat your back.

if your animal is more water based he totes gets you a pool to swim in. Like in ground, deep as shit and lighted, heated and with nice walls.

Moral of the story: hell is actually good for therians and otherkins bc their all silly Lil animals guys (:

[creatureheart]

hi! forgive me for bringing up an old post out of nowhere, moreso if youve already answered this question before (in which case feel free to just link your answer!) you made a really good post back in april explaining some alterhuman/nonhuman/etc labels and explaining some general facets of it like how it can develop involuntarily - in that post you say thar some people may experience being nonhuman physically or ancestrally and i was wondering what that means in this context? i hope this doesnt come across as rude or anything, im genuinely curious what this means and was hoping you could explain. thanks for taking the time to read either way. ❤️

Never feel bad for sending in questions. I’m always down to try my best at answering them when they’re sent in, but I cannot promise I know everything, and those that fall into these groups are welcome to chime in and correct me when needed!

To what you asked, in basic terms, it’s what it says on the tin. There are people who identify in a physical or ancestral way.

Some identify as their ‘types in all ways including physical. This may be due to the simple mindset of “this is my body, I am this thing, therefore this body is this thing’s body,” all the way to those who experience delusions that cause them to see themselves as physically their ‘type. It very much depends on the person and how they experience their nonhumaness. Some terms that refer to things like this are Holothere and Endel, but there are others!

Ancestral nonhumans are those who believe their nonhuman identity has been passed down through familial lineage. An example being some of the founders of the online Otherkin community who believed they were descended from Elves. I can’t say I know too much about this, but it again depends entirely on the individual as to how their family came to pass this down to their descendants — whether something like a curse, to it having always been that way.

While not the most informative, I hope this is a good start at finding information on these things, and I welcome anyone that falls into these groups to reblog and talk about their experiences.

[yellow-computer-mouse]

⭐Intro Post⭐

ATTENTION: My DTIYS is up! Due date: October 5th!

Hey, what's up? I'm yellow-computer-mouse, also known as Yellow! I have a lot more info on my carrd, but here's the important stuff:

Pronouns:

He/Him

It/Its

Star/Stars

Ey/Em

I am a minor!

I am fictionkin (Snowfall WoF, Winter WoF, Aeolus EPIC) and a therian (Norwegian forest cat)!

⭐Userboxes by @kthecritter and myself! and blinkies by @spectral-stuff & @dragonpride17⭐

I use a lot of tone tags, and while you don't have to use them for me, it can help if the tone of a statement is unclear! Here are the main tags I use, along with their meaning! If you have any questions on other tone tags, ask away!

⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

/gen - Genuine! I honestly mean what I said! There is no sarcasm or passive aggressiveness in my sentence.

/genq - Genuine question! I'm asking a question out of curiosity, not malice!

/silly - Silly! I'm just messing around for the memes.

/lh - Light-hearted! I'm not being too serious, so don't stress it! Normally used alongside /silly :)

/lyr or /ly - Lyric! I'm quoting song lyrics.

I am also always willing to add trigger warnings to a post! If you feel like it's needed, let me know! You can reblog, send an ask, or DM me, whatever is most comfortable for you!

This does not apply to the 🦃🪓 anon because that is still ongoing, but please don't start ARGs with me. It's super cool that people want to, but I am not a puzzle guy. Thank you! (And no hate to turkeyaxe ^^)

I also use a lot of text colors! Here are the main ones and what they mean!

⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

Red - Added emphasis. I'm drawing the eye to the important parts of a big text block.

Green - Links! I will never put anything incorrect behind a link, not even a rick roll.

Blue - Mostly just used on this post. I use blue whenever I type out a tag in the main part of a post.

Purple - Song lyrics!

Pink - Tagging a user!

There's some more things that I want to add, so they're going here! Nothing too important, so you can ignore this part if you want. /gen

⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

My favorite color is yellow! It took me a while to figure this out, so please don't be mean about it. No yellow hate on this blog! /hj

I also like orange and red!

I love getting asks! Even if it's just one word with no context, it makes me happy!

I love it so much, I made three ask blogs! All are WoF-centered: @ask-hs-jade-winglet and @wof-adoption-au are canon characters, and @wofsidequesters is for my OCs!

I also made a daily art blog called @daily-snowfall! go check it out if you're interested in having one (1) snowy on your dash every day

My favorite food is cheesecake!

My birthday is July 28th! I am a Leo (or a Cancer, going by the new chart! lmk which fits better if you want ^^)

My favorite animals are isopods, thresher sharks, and whale sharks!

My favorite UTMV characters are Nightmare, Red, and Dust!

My favorite WoF characters are Winter, Turtle, Blue, Sunny, and Starflight!

I have a pet cat named Azzy, a dog named Homer, and a leopard gecko named Honeydew!

I have an Artfight! My user is yellow-computer!

I take requests sometimes! Icons and headers, free to use as long as you credit me! I draw dragons, furries, cats, humans/humanoids... pretty much whatever! Requests are currently open!

I don't have an extensive DNI, but there are still some things I'd like to keep out of my blog!

⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

Proshippers/Comshippers/Neutrals

Zionists

Radqueers

Anti-furries (from people who believe all furries are zoophiles to people who just think it's weird)

TERFs/SWERFs

Basic DNI criteria (homophobes, transphobes, right-wingers/centrists, racists, etc.)

Here are some people who I welcome here!

Alterhumans/Nonhumans! (therians, fictionkin, otherkin, otherhearted, etc! Voidpunk as well, but that's different from the others listed)

Selfshippers! (As long as it's not pro/comship, go right ahead!)

Systems!

Those with commonly stigmatized disorders!

People who are "cringe"!

In general, anyone who isn't on my DNI!

⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

I am a part of many fandoms, but here are some of my favorites!:

Will Wood

Bears in Trees

UTMV

WoF

Portal

Slime Rancher

The Owl House

Epic: the Musical

The main fandoms I post about are WoF and UTMV.

I am taking commissions for Palestine! More info on that in the post below, or DM me!

Also, if you are a Palestinian with a GoFundMe, feel free to send an ask or DM me for support! I can't donate, but I will promote your campaign however I can!

Remember to do your daily clicks for Palestine!

Icon Masterpost

Furry Species (Aebe) Masterpost

UTMV/WoF Playlist Masterpost

Blog Masterpost

Thanks for reading my rambles, and have fun! ^-^

[talks-with-the-void]

I tried to tag the commenter but the blog doesn't show up, so I can't. TW: this post does contain what could be interpreted as reality checking and although I don't mean any harm, this could potentially be triggering!

But anyway, this requieres a longer answer - I'm gonna give them the benefit of the doubt and just assume they just don't know better, which is fine, we're all here to learn. So please don't read an attack into this! I also do not experience delusions myself and certaimly don't want to speak over those who do. I am doing my best to be respectful and not accidentally spread misinformation, but if I mess up, please let me know!

Firstly, "delusion" is not a bad word. a delusion isn't "somethign stupid someone believes in, what the fuck is wromg with them", it's a (symptom of) a serious mental illness, often seen in schizophrenia and psychosis. it's an unshakable belief that contradicts Reality (= in this post, Reality with a capital R refers to the reality that is generally shared by all people and can be seen and experinced by everyone - aside from those who may have delusions). "touching grass" won't do anything to help that, it is reality for them and absolutely nothing and nobody can change that. at worst, telling them they're wrong and should just "touch grass" will make them suffer even more.

so, yes, you could say that all p-shifters experince delusions, because nobody but them can see their transformations. at least, there hasn't been any proof at all until today and their beliefs absolutely clash with science and Reality. but here's the thing: there is a condition called clinical lycanthropy or clinical zoanthropy, which describes exactly the experience of believing you can, have turned or will turn into an animal. there are quite a few of them here on tumblr, having their own community which also often kinda overlaps with alterhuman spaces. those people are not p-shifters! p-shifter is not a medical term or anything, instead it is a term that has evolved here on the internet and has a history of cult-like behaviour, lots of manipulation, malicious people, etc. the "original" p-shifters also oftentimes had a lot of ableistic opinions, openly shitting on clinical zoanthropes, using delusional as an insult, etc. the term p-shifter was never ever meant to describe the experience of clinical zoanthropy. it was invented to create the feeling of belonging to an elite group, to put yourself over others. it's even questionable if the majority of p-shifters actually believes they could transform or if they just wanted power over others, promising them to teach them how to turn, knowing all to well it can't work.

nowadays, some clinical zoanthropes try to "reclaim" the term p-shifter - which is a problem, because you can't just take a term that was NEVER meant to describe your experinces and also never used as a slur against you. a different example in alterhuman context would e the word kinnie - originally made by trolls and to shit on otherkin, it always directly addressed otherkin, even if in a deregatory way. it was meant to be used for otherkin. p-shifter was never meant to be used for delusional people. p-shifter will always have its ties to manipulation and cults, it will always be a harmful term.

I don't and will never allow people who call themselves p-shifters on my blog, because of the terms roots.

there is nothing wrong with truly believing you can transforn into an animal, even tho it contrdicts Reality. there is absolutely nothing wrong with being delusional (as in, it doesn't make you a bad person, of course it almost always comes with suffering). there however IS something wrong with proudly using a term that was NEVER meant for you, never described your experiences and instead has a history of manipulation and online-cults. if you proudly call yourself p-shifter and just basically decide to ignore that history, I don't trust you.

THIS is what my post was about, not about the fact that some people are delusional.

[martinshep]

Going by only what I've come across online myself, in comments and forums, and in direct conversation, therians will say therianthropy is not at all correlated with being trans or with being lgbtq as a whole. I've not really understood why that's the case. My own experience has always felt very transgender. Even that I'm uncertain of as I haven't (and don't plan to) socially transition, so I can't properly compare the two, I don't even know what it feels like to be (have?) a gender. Maybe it's just not been explained to me in the right way, maybe my experience is unique, I'm trying to find out.

Therians, trans people, both, please tell me about your own experiences with that if you feel comfortable doing so. Especially if you're both please tell me how they're different for you, or how they're similar for you! I'm trying to figure this out for myself so if you're not comfortable sharing your experiences please reblog so I can hear from more people.

For context on my own experience:

I recognised having dysphoria over being human not long after becoming interested in furry culture. I had heard of otherkin before but assumed that because I didn't want to be fully animal I didn't count, and also because I thought I only wanted to be an anthro, and not that I am an anthro. Currently my belief is that the true self exists in the ideal self, and so wanting to be an anthro means I am one. Because I didn't feel like I was therian, or know much about it to begin with, I didn't look into therian and otherkin spaces. When I got these dysphoric feelings I kept them to myself for the most part as I felt like I was weird and strange, only talking about it to my trans partner (at the time), and she had never heard of otherkins or therians, and so related it to her own trans experience. From her I then figured my dysphoria is similar to gender dysphoria. I even have a trans sister and so learnt plenty about what it means to be trans from my mum telling us both about it.

A year or two later my cis parter convinced me that I do count as otherkin/therian, and only then did I look into those communities. I assumed others would have the same feelings I did that it's like gender dysphoria but haven't yet come across a single otherkin/therian saying that their otherkinity/therianthropy feels similar to being trans/lgbtq. I didn't say or ask anything because I was (and still am) quite socially anxious.

I'm currently sick with something and it's given me time to think and reflect, and introspection doesn't seem to be giving me any answers. Describe your own experiences, say why you think they are similar or not, I just want to hear what people think so I can come to a conclusion on myself.

[nonhumanwithin]

hello, hope you are well. i dont know if this is the correct place to ask this however, i am questioning whether i am some form of alterhuman and i was wondering if you could help me (though its totally ok if not). i feel a really strong connection with birds and often express similar behaviours/ feel the need to, such as nesting and calls. i do occasionally feel like i am trapped in a human body but i dont know if this is due to gender identity or neurodivergence.

thank you for your time

Hi! The short answer is that you are the only person who can decide if you are alterhuman or not.

What you've described does sound like some type of alterhuman experience, likely otherkin/therian (using them interchangeably in this context). The cause of your identity does not matter. Otherkinity is not a disease with specific symptoms and a specific cause that can only be diagnosed under certain circumstances. It's a label and community for anyone who feels it fits them and connects with other people through a shared experience of having some form of nonhuman identity. If viewing yourself as birdkin/a bird therian feels right, referring to yourself as a bird or some nonhuman animal feels correct, you are allowed to use the labels as you wish! :)

[compassionatereminders]

I think people preach a lot about being openminded and accepting, but then cut off those feelings from so many people who disagree or don't fully line up with them.

Like, of course you don't have to show sympathy or open kindness to people being bigoted towards you. That's not what irks me.

What irks me is this utter dismissal of entire points of view simply because someone doesn't say something palatably or correctly.

Especially in terms of queer discourses. We are all literally in this shit together who fucking cares about more spiritual identites like otherkin or whatever. We are all degenerate fags in the eyes of the general public, the way the most... fucking. Idk a palatable way of saying this. The most weird and niche and sensitive and fetish-y of our ranks, the "SJWs" if we want to go there. The way those people are treated, that sets the example for how all of us get treated if we get clocked as queer. Because if we're queer, we might be one of Those queers.... the ones who hiss at cops or have neopronouns. And that's fucked up.

No, I don't understand Xander, 23, believes themselves to be an actual real unicorn. I don't get it! I don't get a lot of the new shit young fags get up to. But... you're all my goddamn motherfucking family, and I care. I don't know you, and yet I fucking care. And I hate seeing peoples entire validity or humanity get dismissed, simply for being "too extreme". I don't care about some untangible crap about what it means to be a Real trans person, or whatever. Come sit down. I made us some shitty pasta. Stay in my company knowing that, though I don't understand or agree with you, I still love you.

I have actually talked a lot about this in the context of disability and mental health, and I completely agree that trying to win respectability by distancing yourself from or even attacking less "respectable" members of your community isn't a good road to walk down, ever. And this goes for the queer community too!

[who-is-page]

hey! i'm new to this community so im so sorry if this is rude. i just heard about otherkin and therians from sophieinwonderland? but she said things about how being attracted to otherkin and therian people is like zoophilia and stuff. i'm sure those posts are still up on her blog if you want to look. anyways, that made me feel weird? so that's why i'm asking you. you seem to know a lot of things? based on my vibe check. so i was just wondering what your thoughts on this are.

I've had sophieinwonderland blocked for a really long time now, so I had to take a quick jaunt through her blog to check this-- I'm guessing you're referring to this post from 2022, where she says "Zoophilia means an attraction to animals. [...] I think we can all agree that biological nonhuman animals cannot consent and that bestiality is wrong. But what actually constitutes zoophilia is so much murkier. [...] if attraction to animals is zoophilia, is attraction to animal-identifying biological humans?" (It's important to note that Sophie states elsewhere on her blog that the TL;DR of what she was trying to convey in this post and the related debacle surrounding it is that she doesn't believe in thoughtcrimes, doesn't want non-offending paraphiles harassed or attacked, and supports human-bodied animal-persons in relationship with other consenting human-bodied adults. These are all pretty reasonable stances to hold, all things considered, and we don't want to conflate her with actual Zetas and bestialists-- she just seems to accidentally be repeating some questionable rhetoric without realizing it, because she isn't familiar with the therian community and its unique missing stairs in this regard. Source)

So from an outsider perspective, regarding folks who aren't particularly familiar with the otherkin and therian communities and who don't know better, this can seem like a genuine point or a fair question to bring up. What people don't actually often realize is that not only is this not true, but this sort of rhetoric is actually most often used as a bestialist dogwhistle. Let me explain.

So first off: no, having a partner who is an otherkin, a therian, a non-human fictionkin, or who otherwise is a human that identifies as an nonhuman animal does not make someone a zoophile nor a bestialist. Having sex with your human-bodied consenting adult partner is not bestiality. Loving them for who they are is not zoophilia. Zoophilia is, first and foremost in this context, an attraction to real-life actual animals. Things like thinking Mufasa LionKing is hot, or being a murrsuiter, or following a therian on OnlyFans, doesn't count.

(For those interested, there actually is a specific orientation term for people who are strictly alterhuman4alterhuman-- the term is "Medusan," it was coined in 2018, and it's actually more popular than you think.)

Now, here's where the unique problems of specifically the therian community comes into play, and why what sophieinwonderland is implying here is teetering close to an unintentional dogwhistle on her part, something she wouldn't have known because she's not a member of our communities. If you're not interested in the history aspect of this and why referring to therianthropy or otherkinship as potentially or inherently zoophilic is a dogwhistle, you can jump-ship here and I won't blame you-- I'm putting it below the cut for brevity's sake.

The therian community, if you're not aware, has had an issue in the past where several long-term, respectable members were revealed to be bestialists, either they themselves participating in bestiality or being knowingly supportive of those who do. These individuals were (and still are) also, unfortunately, in charge of or otherwise held leadership positions in some of the biggest and oldest therian and otherkin forums-- namely Therian Guide, OtherkinPhenomena (who shared a majority of its staff with Therian Guide), and the Werelist (who also shared staff with Therian Guide). You can check out my Therian Guide Beware for details and citations, because that's where most of this initial explosion of "WTAF" stemmed from.

When this all came out in roughly 2017-2019, it created complete community chaos. People felt betrayed, and rightly so. There were a lot of divisions in the community about where to draw the line, when, and how. And the bestialists intentionally made everything as messy as possible during the course of it all.

The bestialists largely justified their abuse through their own therianthropy and connection to animality, and when that didn't work, they pivoted to trying to include as much of the therian community under the "zoophilia" umbrella as possible in order to argue that it was natural or normal for therians to sexually abuse animals-- you can see an example of them doing that here, in Therian Guide owner DustWolf's baseless Twitter assertion that "60% of all therians are zoo[phile]s." (mirror).

For the record, no, 60% of therians are not zoophiles, and no current statistics from the community supports this. I wrote a Twitter thread in 2022 debunking this claim. But this also ties into the next point-- DustWolf isn't just referring to people who are attracted to real life animals. DustWolf is also referring to bestialists in this statistic, even if it's not immediately apparent.

The bestialists tried to paint this picture of all therians being pro-bestiality by trying to expand the definition of the term "zoophile" in public discourse and muddle its meaning as much as possible, to mean everything from "person who commits bestiality" to "person who had a crush on Nick Wilde as a teenager" to "person who experiences a sex drive and who also identifies as a nonhuman animal." They also used anti-bestiality backlash to try and lay claim on anyone who got caught in the cross-fire, playing the sympathetic shoulder to people who weren't bestialists or even zoophiles to get them to join up in their communities, and they coined terms like "zootherian" to try and reinforce a nonexistent connection between bestiality and therianthropy. It was, to summarize it succinctly, a complete clusterfuck. Nowadays, bestialists have also picked up queer social justice rhetoric and language to try and argue for the legalization of bestiality, though this wasn't as prevalent 2 years ago, which is its own issue.

Because of all this, assertions and implications that therians and otherkin are by default zoophiles, or that a majority of therians or otherkin are zoophiles, or that therianthropy and otherkinship can be intrinsically tied to zoophilia, or that zoophilia is queer and alterhuman, or even publicly identifying as a zoophile, is considered a major dogwhistle in the community. Historically when people who aren't just outright anti-kin have said these types of things to our communities, it's been to cover the asses of people who want to normalize and legitimize bestiality, or because the person in question is freely involved with communities and groups who have welcomed pro-bestiality attitudes. Saying that shit is a quick way to get blocked by a ton of alterhumans on most platforms. Sophie made a distinct division between "bestiality" and "zoophilia" in her commentary so it's obvious she didn't intend it that way, but it's still really not a great thing to say or imply because of the history behind it and the ways it's been used before.

So, to reiterate: no, people who date therians and otherkin aren't zoophiles, and people who say such are implying a lot more than they actively realize.

[genderkoolaid]

It makes me happy to hear people speak positively about otherkin, most of the stuff I hear from non-otherkin is just jokes at our expense or intentionally taking stuff we say far out of context to make us sound crazy

Thanks for being a chill person

No problem!! I have my own relationship w alterhumanity but most recently it's been very helpful for me when dealing w psychotic episodes (which very often involve delusions of not being physically human) to know there's a community where that energy can be safely directed, and also as a disabled/ND/queer/aro person I naturally vibe very strongly with not feeling human. Also as someone who loves spirituality, that element of alterhumanity is just so interesting! I feel like people brush off it as a spiritual identity a lot or like. treat it as an excuse for being weird instead of a genuine belief? But the idea of past lives being able to impact your current self and your identity as a human is dope as hell idk what to tell y'all

When you actually y'know. read about what alterhumans have to say about their identity and don't go in looking for "cringe" you actually find really beautiful and interesting takes on what it means to be "human" and identity and our relationship with other forms of life and non-life and even fiction! When you let yourself step past the "wait that's so Weird" reaction and actually engage with alterhumanity in a genuine way you realize it deserves so much more appreciation than it gets.

Basically if my friend feels like a dog. Woof woof am I right?

[unhingedkinfessions]

so like. we're in this discord server and its p sick lol theres not many issues with it tbh but there is smth thats been botherin me and ive gotta get it out somewhere so that i dont feel like an asshole for sayin it in the server itself its very 'kin focused, a lot of ppl in the server are otherkin. so we have a channel for ppl to talk about 'kin stuff. only issue is that its open to anyone who joins the server. which wouldnt be an issue if we didnt have the occasional person join whos a 'normie' and then they automatically have access to the kin channel. we're also all very anti-kff and are very open abt how those ppl arent welcome in our space and are fine with explainin the dif if needed this is context needed for what imma talk abt lol so theres this guy in the server, we'll call him G, and he's just some dude who is in the server and exists in our space. which is totes fine. but. G has a bad bad habit of thinking that being kin = relating to a character/having a comfort character. and we (several members of the server + the owner) have explained that he is wrong several times. he asks what 'kinning' is and we explain. we explain at least once a week atp but for some reason, it just isnt clickin for the guy. that or he is blatantly ignorin us anytime we explain it. but the thing is. he blames not understandin on his autism/adhd. which is genuinely the most bullshit thing ive ever heard bc like. most of us HAVE autism/adhd and we're like... come on dude.... i understand not gettin social norms and shit but at this point, its gettin absurd. it doesnt help that he also blatantly ignores ppl's boundaries and continues to post things that make ppl uncomfortable and then once again, blaming his neurodivergence for his actions. which again. most bullshit thing ive ever heard. i genuinely dont know why this fucker is still in the server atp. he doesnt respect any of us. he's even gone as far as to try and use tupperbox (which we have for system + kin use) for his 'fandoms' as he says. and then ignoring when i told him that he's NOT ALLOWED to do this. genuinely i cannot fucking stand this guy and i want him out of the server because fuck him. if you cant respect our space or us you can get the fuck out. stop acting like you're kin when you say you dont even know what being kin means. stop ignoring us when we try to explain it to you. stop acting like you're absolved from any repercussions just bc you're autistic and downt undewstand uwu fuckin. shut the hell up dude i hate your bitchass. petition for the server owner to ban his ass the next time he says some stupid bullshit

also ik someone from said server follows this blog so hiiii if u see this <333 ik u agree with me bc weve talked abt it before <3333 love you dude /p ur so cool

girl what the fuck

ruling:

[lee-hakhyun]

Hiii i will answer in an ask since using tags would be quite cumbersome.

I want to firstly say that im sorry for assuming your identity. I shouldn't have done that. I'm a little bit sensitive when it comes to this matter since i saw a lot of....pretty mean stuff that people said about otherkinity since i entered the community even when it wasn't necessary bad intentioned, so that why's i immediately jumped to the assuming that you were the same. That's the reason, but not a excuse so I'm sorry. I didn't meant to hurt you or anything like that.

Also, i def wont block you or any mutual over this, especially when yall are very respectful and understanding and especially when in this case it's just more a matter of view towards a recognized issue (man why does this sound so formal.....i hate english). And i hope you didn't took my tags as an attack or anything of sorts, i just wanted to raise an issue that worries me a lot, especially when the majority doesn't even know what otherkinity is or when they do, they mostly brush off/ignore it.

Also, before knowing what otherkin was or the kff movement, i used the term kinning in that way too (especially when it came to kdj). Even nowadays, when i try to regulate my usage of the word "kin", i still think to myself "man im too much of a kdj kinnie blergh" because it's too integrated in my brain from all the jokes/memes. So like. I think it would hypocritical to not clarify that. + you tags were far from incoherent, quite the opposite! I think my tags was messier lol

Thing is i do agree somewhat with your views/opnion and i do agree that 90% of the people use it as way to express their love or understanding or empathy with a character and i think that's amazing. But i also, it doesn't erase the fact that it do help erase and block the voices from community and does nothing to raise awareness, and still perpetuate the harm done to the otherkinity. Especially! Towards fictionkin. Although I'm not fictionkin and i dont speak over their issues, from what i seen in some posts the fact that "kinning" became so popular esp in the context of "kinning" a fictional character, it make it harder to talk about their experiences and only intensify the pre-judgment and steorytyping.

Just because "kinnig" is popular now, it doesn't mean that it has/will be that way forever. Over the years, there were many harmful words that were popular in usage but were dropped off and substituted by other non-harmful words later on and "kinning" can be one of those too. I like to discuss the understanding or empathy one have towards characters and i like how this type of discussion became more popular due to "kinning" and precisely because of that, that i find important for us (as in, people on the internet) to popularize alternative terms, akin to how "generative media" is becoming more used than "AI" in some spaces.

It's true that there is no other popular term, and that precisely why it's even more necessary to use alt terms to describe this understanding one have towards a character.

But like you said, its more a matter of opnion/views more than anything. But again, i think it would be at least the minimum if people outside of the community raised more awareness and gave more voice to otherkin ppl, which i dont see happening. I just came to know what otherkinity is because i remembered the term "voidpunk" from the aro community and when i went to search it on tumblr i saw it being tagged in otherkin posts, rather than a directly seeing the term in a post from the dash or anything like that.

So if people outside of the community use kinning, then at least i hope they also care about the community itself and our opinions, experiences and issues. I hope one day, otherkinity would be more known and accepted rather than remain with the popular knowledge of "identity made up by cringe mentally ill tumblr teenagers, who are northern american/european" (at least for me, as an Brazilian, the last part is really depressing) (I hate being seen as USAian or european. Like. Ewww)

I kinda fear that all this discussion about otherkin language and kff will just be brushed as "silly tumblr discourse made by chronically online ppl" rather than something serious to think and talk about, especially in outside circles. so like. Im sorry if im getting too emotional or anything about that, in this aspect, its less about you or my mutuals as individuals and more about "many, many, many people and society in general are pretty ableist, mean and ignorant when it comes to subcultures like this and i want to more people understand that and try to find an alternative way to describe a pretty positive and funny experience without harming other people".

I guess that as long as it harms people, even in indirect ways, i will still be uncomfortable with the term kinning and i dont think i would be ever or so soon be comfortable in using it the way i used before, but that's on me. At the end of the day, people are free to do what they want, and i respect that freedom, especially when they're understanding/respectful/well-intentionated.

And thats it. Sorry for the long ask ajsbsisjsisj also i struggle with tone so sorry if i seemed too rude or too formal (?). English also doesn't helps lol

oh it's okay i mostly keep this blog to fandom/games i get why you would assume things, especially about this! i don't mind other people having differing opinions/feelings, just that i personally don't mind kinnies (as long as they're respectful ofc) + indulge in the kinnie stuff myself. and you're completely in the right to be uncomfortable with it yourself, i wasn't looking to change your opinion but just express mine ^^ i get that it's a touchy topic for a lot of otherkin, i felt that i had to bring up the otherkin/kinnie distinction in that ask because ignoring to just reply with the kinnie definition would leave people ignorant. better to educate people to the best of my ability than to leave people in the dark.

if i start seeing a big push for new language i'd totally be on board to swap to it.. but unfortunately a lot of the alternatives i see are just never used compared to kinnie/kinning. i believe what's most likely to happen to replace kinnie is not a term created specifically to replace it, but a popular new word that just happens to have the same meaning. maybe some good might finally come from tiktok's easy virality🤷

[neiviele]

"Mental disorders aren't identities! Imagine if someone said this about schizophrenia, PTSD, etc."

...Why can't it be? Identity in the context many people use it is literally what you take on and consider to be "you" - your identity. You can identify as anything, technically speaking - as long as it's subjective, you can identify as it. That means trans people, therians/otherkin, and yes, even endogenic systems.

So yeah, I would expect people to identify with or as having schizophrenia, PTSD, OCD, etc. These conditions typically aren't physical (unless you've actually personally gotten your brain scanned and factually know that you have this condition, brain scans do not factor into this) and even if you're misdiagnosed or whatnot your still do identify with the condition on some level, to tell people about it or search for another label if you've been misdiagnosed. There's always an aspect of self identity in this, or else you would not be a person seeking labels or diagnosis.

In fact, schizophrenia is known to have an identity aspect to it which is a big factor in why people don't take their meds. It's a part of them, and is just who they are, a part of their identity. Ego dystonic conditions dont have this as often, but even then I wouldn't be caught off guard if someone said they identified as having PTSD or BPD or whatever. Trauma is a subjective thing (there is no objective litmus test for what counts as "traumatic enough" for these disorders) and it's largely self-report. If they claim to be suffering from it or experiencing it, then I have no reason to doubt them.

Also why are you all surprised that the identity disorder, dissociative IDENTITY disorder, would lead some people to identify with or as some variant of it? If we're using the theory of structural dissociation, some systems will have trauma starting from an extremely young age, so much so that they never knew themselves as a singlet, and have never been alone. Is it not wise to assume that systems like these would identify with their condition, given that's all they've ever known? Is it not wise to assume that some might actually like being what they are, given that's all they've known, or identify as *gasp* having DID?

Not everyone will identify with a given condition in any given group, but if someone does I'm not going to be angry at them for it. Be yourselves.