#if sjm continue with this redemption arc

[infiniteetcetera]

Hot take of the day is Gwynriel has loads of chemistry and Elucien plenty of potential but I’d still rather see Elriel together for the sake of the plot…

What I mean by that is I think an Azriel/Gwyn & Elain/Lucien love story is the path of least resistance for SJM. It fits perfectly into the “everyone is mated and happy together” stereotype much more so than Elain/Az, especially if (as most people predict) Emerie and Mor also wind up together.

I love the Valkeryies and their relationship too much for them to just be absorbed by the IC and that’s exactly what I feel would happen if we get Gwyn/Az, Elain/Lucien, and Emerie/Mor. If Azriel winds up with Gwyn it’s highly likely we’ll get an “i told you so” moment from Rhys who will continue believing he is right about everything and that its totally okay to control the lives of his so called family. Nessian will remain strong and Nesta will be even further solidified in the Night Court (FREE HER) if her two closest friends become IC equivalents.

On the Elain side of things, so many people seem to imply her being with Lucien would be an escape from the Night Court but Rhys wants Elain with Lucien because it’s a way to drag Lucien further into the Night Court. He’s already using their bond to manipulate diplomacy with Lucien and no matter where Lucien ends up, if he’s mated to Elain he will be stuck with strong ties to the Night Court and so will she.

I think Elain/Azriel are the only option that could really push and fuel change for the IC. Rhys drawing a line in the sand about their relationship forces the members of the inner circle to genuinely have to pick sides and I think it would really push Feyre and Nesta to confront their own relationships with their mates and the Night Court. And honestly I’ve always found it ironic that so many people use the “Elain doesn’t belong in the Night Court” argument against Elriel because Azriel doesn’t belong in the Night Court either.

As early as ACOMAF Azriel tells Feyre he doesn’t feel like he belongs in the NC. We’ve seen countless times throughout the series he is left out, ignored, and manipulated by his so called family. People like Rhys and Mor who are the “closest” to him have admitted to being lowkey afraid of him, most of the IC admits they know little about his thoughts/feelings, and its not one of his oldest friends but Nesta who comforts him while he isolates himself during a holiday when he’s feeling like absolute trash because he feels that lonely and unworthy.

I think it would make perfect sense for Azriel to leave the Night Court with Elain, maybe even with Nesta and the Valkeryies considering both him and Nesta have been tied to the Dawn Court now and Nesta made a point of saying she is not a member of the NC. I’m not saying we’d get a full on Nessian break up (I can dream) or that Feyre is going to leave Rhys (SJM will never do this) but I do think Nesta and Feyre would both pull for their sister’s happiness. Especially for Nesta, I feel like part of why she takes how Cassian and the IC treats her is because she feels worthless and doesn’t think she deserves better, but if there’s anyone Nesta will stand up for it’s Elain and hearing that Rhys is manipulating her love life could be such a good catalyst for this girl to move on (my dream crack theory, she leaves Cas in Elains book, Lucien’s book is Autumn Court centered and we get a Nesta/Eris redemption romance arc)

Overall I think the effects that would result from Az leaving the NC with Elain however it happens has the potential for the most complex and intriguing story. I’m sure both Gwynriel and Elucien could be perfectly happy couples, if they get books I will read them and they will probably be fine because SJM knows how to write romance (tho sometimes, I have my doubts recently 👀) but these two relationships don’t have much potential to spark the big changes in the ACOTAR universe Id like to see for the Archeron sisters (and babyboys Az and Lucien). If SJM doesn’t keep doing weird things like the necklace situation, I think Elain and Azriel make perfect sense as a couple and the breaking of the status quo they symbolize is just what the world at large needs.

[achaotichuman]

i was just re-reading your ACOTAR rant and it made me weep because it sums up all of my thoughts about the series and how tamlin continues to be disregarded and vilified for literally every single thing. i walked into the series already knowing rhys was endgame for feyre and that’s fine, but the minute i started ACOMAF i literally was like… what is happening here and why does everyone on instagram (i wasnt active on tumblr and mainly saw acotar stuff on instagram) hate tamlin so much. then i finished acomaf, acowar, and completed the series and i’m still so… confused?

all this to say, i’ve always been a tamlin girlie since the first book and i always will be. I’m genuinely scared abt what will happen in the next book whether tamlin will get redeemed (and he literally did redeem himself already in my opinion, esp. after acowar) in a horrible way or if he gets killed of. a part of me selfishly wants him to stay alive because thats my baby but also… idk how i feel about sjm’s plans if she does write a “redemption arc” for him.

Sorry for the rant lol, i just have a lot of thoughts (and love) for tam 🫶🏼

👏👏👏👏 PREACH! AMEN!

When I started Acotar I had already spoiled the entire series for myself. You could ask me any question about it, down to mfing details and I would’ve been able to answer correctly. Before ever even touching the book!

I think knowing whats gonna happen lets you honestly look deeper into the characters and relationships cause its no longer a surprise but an inevitable.

Makes it a lot easier to see how fucked up F*ysand really is. Tamlin didn’t deserve any of the villainisation he went through. Acomaf was completely out of a character. Which is another reason I think people go so quickly to Rhysand and refuse to see his red flags as well. Because Tamlin was shamed for having any sort of imperfection, the reader is shamed for ever having liked him and it is a really shitty feeling.

So people overturn it with becoming hardcore Rhysand stans.

Just a theory but it would explain this kind of cultish following his has that is targeting Tamlin.

Anyway never apologise for ranting thats what my blog is for!

[dimalry]

Previous anon here 🙋🏼‍♀️

And yes I agree. Sjm did not handle it very well since people have been fighting each other for over a year now and I believe people can have different opinions on it. I accept that people can see the situation in different ways because of how it was handled and/or from the bits they remember since most of us haven't read the books in a while 😅. I too haven't read them in a long time but from what I remember I didn't see it as SA or know all the details of what happened. And there are a lot of very similar debates happening in the fandom and there aren't any new ones, just a repeat of the same arguments people used one month ago, I guess this is a way to keep the fandom alive since we haven't been given anything?? But idk lol. I just keep to myself most of the time when I see someone having a different opinion as me and just continue with the things I enjoy.

Because of the way she handles certain topics, he have people arguing over who‘s right constantly. It’s actually so interesting how everyone has their own Interpretation of the text. There’s some beauty that comes with that, but people rather want everyone to think like them and that leads to this wildness in the fandom. When you have someone getting so triggered over your opinions, not only do they attack you but they create 5 more posts talking trash about you, that’s how you know the fandom is WILD 💀

When Rhys was first introduced I shipped Feysand right away (I thought Feylin was cute but I love me some morally grey characters). Things started to become.. weird when I arrived at the utm scenes and they made me uncomfortable. I didn’t think much of it when I finished the book because I thought we‘re going to get an epic redemption arc. We didn’t. Though I still loved Acomaf, I was fairly disappointed with how it was handled. My second time reading the books it only frustrated me. I really wanted to see some good redemption arc from a morally grey character, but it turned out that he isn’t morally grey in the first place and that isn’t a trope that I particularly like 😬I like Feysand and they’re fun to draw (I have most of them still in my drafts). I sometimes think of how I would‘ve written the story. Especially after Under the Mountain, that’s when I imagine what route Feyre and Feysand together would take. I took some inspiration from the atla world (I‘m so excited to draw and share my thoughts on this when I get the time 🥹), and Rhys In my imagination is definitely held accountable (no character is safe from accountability, even my favs)

You’re one of the great people who can bring a safe space in the fandom. Minding your own business and enjoying life is very mature ✨

[elrielbaby]

I do have to wonder, what sort of message do they think it will send if T*mlin gets a redemption arc? A lot, and I mean a lot of DA victims identified with Feyre & her story. For me, to have a redemption arc for him would take away from Feyres story - you know, the main character of the series. Can you imagine, reading this story, identifying so strongly with Feyre & her abuse at the hand of him, continuing to read the series — for you to have to read about her abuser getting his happy ever after? No thank you. I know I shouldn’t be shocked but sometimes I cannot believe how obtuse people are.

I also don’t know how many times SJM has to say, she thinks he’s a douchebag, doesn’t want to go back to Spring Court & has said on many occasions how he’s an abuser.

[elevatorladylady]

I’ve been thinking about a Tamlin redemption arc, and I know most fans say they don’t want one or don’t think he can be redeemed, which leads me to think about what a redemption arc actually means.

Some possibly controversial takes incoming.

This in itself seems to vary widely, but for me, in the real world, I am very much for restorative justice, and that means for anything. I want the people who do really bad things to be stopped from doing those bad things, but it’s also better for our society if they are helped to be better instead of punished. And I mean like I’m literally not sure that it helps anyone to actually punish in a way that goes beyond isolating and fixing the problem. Who should be making that effort to help those people and to what extent should we burden ourselves with that is not as clear if we are looking at smaller communities and not just the state penal system, but generally if the effort and resources can be spared then they should be.

So what does that mean for a fictional world where murder happens a lot and there are a lot of leaders out there violating what we’d generally consider human rights? I honestly don’t know.

But I will say that I would want for the characters in this world that the people doing shitty things stop doing shitty things. Beron is a very good example. He really sucks. He is a terrible person. I don’t actually want to see that character happy, but if he were to grow in some way to be better and stop abusing his wife and he has some moments of happiness as part of that, I do actually want that. I would not like to see him be antagonized for no reason, and undoubtedly make him feel more compelled to abuse his family or the people of his court. Should others trust him? No. Should they do nice things for him? No. But if it were just as easy to be civil as it would be to fully antagonize him, just maybe someone should do that and not make things more difficult for the people that are forced to interact with him. And this goes for so many other things. Poor people don’t stop existing because they run out of money and bad people don’t stop existing when they have been deemed a criminal (unless death penalty).

And I should say I don’t mean that people should just put up with abuse, but that protecting yourself and others (typically yourself first) is the goal, and putting emphasis on the punishment of it all typically doesn’t help with the main goal of stopping the behavior.

So with Tamlin, if he were a real person who interacted with real people, I would very much want him to get better. I would want him to realize his wrongdoings and be better. I would want him to be happy because that would be better for everyone, including the people he is magically bound to rule over. Maybe Lucien would actually want him as a friend again, and Tamlin needs to be in a healthier spot for that. It benefits everyone for him to be a better person that can function in the courts again. And personally, I don’t even think it’s cathartic for him to be miserable. And no matter how shitty SJM needed to make Tamlin, I still feel for the rejection he was heading toward as F/eyre got closer to R/hys. His life sucks and I don’t see any need for other characters to revel in it. It’s not healthy for them and it’s not fun for me as a reader.

I don’t want to see a person who is down, get continually knocked down in future books by people that are supposedly very happy and loved. And I feel a general sense of wariness with the idea that he is an abuser™ and should never be allowed to be happy. And more broadly, I think we let a lot of abusive behavior slide when we are only willing to apply it to an abuser™.

[romanticatheartt]

Before starting acosf my friend already heard about what would happen to Feysand. She didn't continue the series because of this very reason. We both knew how this was going to be.

A pregnancy plot when Feysand is not the narrator of their plot and it's definitely some sort of plot device of Nesta's story.

I continued reading because it was killing me not to know and by that point, I also read too many comments about how Rhysand is OOC. I already knew the only reason he would withhold such important information from Feyre was because he didn't want to put stress on her. And unsurprisingly I was right!! 

But because it was written in Nesta's pov, sjm risked explaining this situation from the point of someone who at that stage of the book was unbearably unreasonable and couldn't think straight. 

I'm not saying Rhysand did nothing wrong because he did and we have to remember, it wasn't out of malice. Nesta was also one of those people who kept this secret and if we want to find the guilty person here both Rhys and Nesta are at fault because technically these two are the closest people to Feyre. One is her husband/mate/father of her child and the other is her sister by blood.

Nesta wanted to conflict the pain she was through on someone like she did her whole life. And she found no one but Feyre. It's ironic because she was also the one holding the truth and did nothing to help, while Rhysand held the truth and was trying to find a solution and searched everywhere. Edit: Feyre was also the only one who disagreed with holding the truth about the sword from Nesta...

People say she wanted to prove to Feyre that IC was toxic and did both of them wrong. Or Nesta wanted her sister to know the truth and "at least she told her about her own body", but none of them is true.

Nesta has a mental health issue and it was said she enjoys hurting people. Not physically but with words. And when she told Feyre about the pregnancy we see how she instantly realised her error. How she saw the destruction she left behind for the first time. It was a fucked up way of sjm inserting some character growth in her as well as some redemption arc in the future.

So yes I don't take this plot seriously at all. It was handled very poorly and its solemn purpose was to give Nesta both a character growth and redemption arc which I hate very much. All the while she could approach her growth and redemption all through Nesta's character and not through another character plot...

I don’t blame rhys for the pregnancy thing simply because I don’t take that plot seriously. maybe if it hadn’t been written as a nesta redemption arc and he chose to withhold medical information from feyre I would have felt differently. but sjm took an important moment from a domestic feysand and used it to give nesta a chance to be the hero which she totally could have done in a different circumstance.

she used them to propel nesta’s storyline and so I just don’t really care

hope that helps!

[cinearia]

The "Morally Grey" in ACOTAR

I decided to write something I have been thinking about since I saw some people saying this when pointing out the wrong attitude of some characters in ACOTAR (aka Rhysand and company), but I think this can apply in general. In another specific story, but I will focus on ACOTAR.

And please, if you disagree, that's fine. This is an opinion of mine that I decided to write and post, because I find it an interesting subject that does not necessarily apply only in ACOTAR, but that is in the saga and I have seen people commenting on it. I don't want to fight with anyone, okay? I put in the tags that fit in.

So...

I love morally gray characters, but just to make it clear right now, I don't think that EVERY story has to have ambiguous characters. It's okay if the story is to follow a line more heroes versus villains line. But one of the things I saw here on tumblr and twitter about the attitudes of IC, Rhysand and Feyre was using that same argument, that they are not perfect, that they have their flaws. I definitely agree with that.

But history itself does not recognize this (and some fans too). Because nobody seems to call their shit out.

Starting from a general view that can include all of the IC. Like, how not to worry about your image while protecting your city? Okay, i get it, we had to be the tHe BaD gUyS, but y'all will suffering the consequences for this, especially if its to protect your own city. Some other people are protecting their citys too. Doesn't mean that you are wrong, but everything has consequences.

Or, how they constantly abuse their power; how Rhysand threatening and using his powers even at a political meeting sound good? How Feyre ended up hurting someone during that same meeting, even if unintentionally, was just fine? No one will call their shit about using their powers? Do you really seek to make allies and friends in the middle of a war by showing abuse of power and threatening others (and not just feysand doing this)? Or saying that they should step over the others so that there is only one king and queen in Prythian (that was right for you, Amren).

And that is partly the fault of writing. Now, more specific:

They lie and steals a valuable artifact from a possible ally and political leader of an entire court? Ah, but it is for a greater good. It will not jeopardize the confidence of a HIGH LORD OF A COURT who was supposed to be his ally in the midst of a war.

Did Feyre decimate an court? Ah, but the leader was abusive to her, she felt trapped in the place that was rebuilding because of a curse of hundreds of years, even though there are innocent people. And, of course, you will have the consequences for this.

(this one more personal and less political) Elain, perhaps the least worst of all, neglected Feyre as much as Nesta did, and also do nothing when she went hunting? Ah, but Elain is Elain.

Did Rhysand hide information from Feyre's pregnancy that she and the baby could die in childbirth? Ah, but he didn't want to worry her, he was scared to lose her and her son. And the whole IC agreed not to tell her anything? Ah, they also care about her, the High Lady.

(And this is the worst and yes, I’ve seen someone say that) Rhysand did it all with Feyre UTM, drugged her, put her in a dress that didn’t cover anything, made her dance all night on his lap? But because he wanted to protect her, we need to hear both sides of the story.

And that's fine because they are the good guys in the story. But it is nothing more than pure hypocrisy, and no consequence falls on them. If it happens, it will be unfair, is just to move the plot.

Do you want us to believe in the heroes of history, do you want us to side with them? Great, we can do that. We could have liked Feyre and Rhysand and the whole IC more, as a group that doesn't always do the right things, except that would have to change literally EVERYTHING (a little bit of charisma would be good).

Instead, for me, it became an egocentric boring FoUnD FaMiLy group that only cares about their own city - and it's not necessarily wrong to be concerned only with Velaris, it's part of their history. But forcing an image on them that doesn't match their actions makes me believe the opposite, especially cause started in ACOSF, again from AMREN, about a King and Queen in Prythian.

So, I came to believe that it was a POV issue. For IC, they are the heroes of history, and think they are better than the rest.

It would be curious, in fact, if the whole point was that Feyre's POV would incapacitate us from seeing the flaws that she doesn't see. And totally proposital. That is why we have to see her as a saint, but at the same time so badass. Wow, no one, i repeat, NO ONE, suspect of me while i pretend to be innocent.

Or how we see her mate so perfect, to the point that history doesn't allow us to stop and think 'wait, this is kind of ...weird'. Or that, as much as there is an error there, but not leat the reader question the characters themselves. Rhysand, for Feyre, is perfect.

We have to see Rhysand as that altruistic, laid-back person who does everything for others, mostly because he did it for Feyre, and that can't be denied. He saved her, took her to her city, her family. What made me stop to think is how Feyre may be reproducing their behavior. How he seems to want her to be part of it so badly. I don't know how to put it into words, but that's more or less what I wrote in another rant I did.

Everything she does is justified by the other characters. At the same time that she, Rhysand and everyone in the IC have hypocritical and very wrong attitudes that history itself does not recognize. And, worst of that, the story seems glorify her POV.

Seriously, when she disobeys the instructions given to her (what she does the most) she has no one to say 'girl, please stop. Just STOP)

And with this said, i add:

We don't have to agree with everything that the characters and the protagonist do. We can love them and still disagree with them, because they are people, or fae, like any other, and there will always be something in them that we will disagree with. It makes them real. They can be heroes and still have their dark side.

The reasons may be as noble as possible, but that will not exclude the consequences, it will not exclude them from being wrong. They do not necessarily need to take a spur or a lesson in morals, but just do not miss out on what every action can bring, especially political leaders in the midst of a war.

Whenever the IC does something, it is for a "bigger" reason, but without giving us the chance to even question it. We don't see them paying for their words, without necessarily moving the plot of the story, in a story that focuses so much on the development of the characters themselves and putting the war in the background (or how should been). Without us being able to question the motivations of the good guys and always doubt the villains.

And this is where I’m going to focus on a more specific point; funny like any character who is "MoRaLlY GrAy" and who "have YOUR rEaSoNs" are men or with history of abuser. Thats funny, right? The new one now is Eris, who was part of Mor's trauma and one of Lucien's nasty brothers, that one who already attacked Lucien, the one who was going to kill Feyre. Who did all that to Mor.

But having Eris saying that she, the victim, didn't tell the whole truth, and the history is now showing that we will see his side...

It just makes me ask, how, in ALL the process of creating and writing these books, passing for her editors, in the books that she wants to pass the message of feminism so much, SJM didn't stop to think, or didn't have a friend to put their hand on your conscience, how wrong does it sound for the abuser to say that the victim is lying?

Why are the men in this saga constantly gaining the gift of doubt?

I can no longer see Rhysand as being morally gray precisely because of what SJM wants us to believe as he is and justifies his actions. What could have been in ACOTAR stopped being completely from ACOMAF, probably because SJM wanted that in her story, the girl would stay with the """villain"""

For from then on, every action of Rhysand is justified and without future consequences, since we are supposed to root for him. Now he is the protagonist's new love interest. So we don't blame him for what he does. So, everything is fine. He's not the bad guy.

And meanwhile, Tamlin comes down to being the bad, abusive guy and... That's it. And no, I don't think he's a good person, he doesn't have to have an arc of redemption, what he did with Feyre is still wrong. The difference now is that Tamlin is just that, those are his only attributes now, while Rhysand has attitudes as bad as, perhaps more, than he had. One is being extremely vilanized while the other is the hero of history, when they are only two sides of the same coin.

I can share this hatred as ALL characters feel for Tamlin, if I didn't see how everyone else did such bad things. Let's remember too, one has the job of torturing people, another has decimated an entire village. They really do what they want and... It's okay.

Doesn't work say that the story has a morally grey area with the characters if the consequences balance it does not lean towards the protagonists.

It costs me less to believe that they are what they are every time SJM reinforces in Feyre's POV how selfless Rhysand is and how much Feyre talks about how badass she is and the two of them such a powerful couple. Literally, I start to think the opposite.

(I did a second part of this rant, but I think it can get a little more personal cause focus in Nesta and Feyre that I decided to split it in two)

[bythenineshards]

i think the reason which makes me angry about acotar & its fandom as a whole is the double standard that exists in the fanbase. rhysand sexually assaulted feyre? 'it's a dark romance so you should go read your vanilla stories & also he did it for her own good'. but when someone says 'well, if it's a dark romance, surely we can have a tamlin redemption arc 'cause he & rhys are the same 'cause he was also protecting feyre 'for her own good'', they'll come at you with pitchforks about how feyre needs someone who is 'feminist' to have a 'healthy relationship' with. like WHICH ONE IS IT??

i am in the hannibal, killing eve & interview with the vampire fandoms. i do like me some mutually toxic relationships that makes you look through characters psyches & pick apart motives & themes.

but acotar goes for this weird stance in its own morality that it doesn't make an ounce of sense. it would've made sense if feyre had left tamlin even if they had a healthy relationship to go join rhysand & then the story could've had a darker turn there. that could've been the basis of a dark romance. or feyre & tamlin's relationship being built on the same lines of toxicity & feyre betraying/hurting tamlin to join rhysand because she wants more power. & tamlin be an equal adversary for them (not antagonist). then the story be continued from there. give me moral ambiguity so that i don't know who to root for. these kinds of things happen in adult high fantasies all the time.

but sjm chooses to compare two equally bad (or 'morally gray', as the stans love to call it) characters and be like 'see, this one is better!!' but if someone points out that they're equally bad you have to watch them do all kinds of unnecessary mental gymnastics & say 'b-but it is a dark romance with dark themes & it's adult!! and rhysand is MORALLY GREY!!! if you can't handle it don't read it!' or the argument of 'it's fiction & they're fae!! you can't apply real world morals to it!!' like sure but where is the CONSISTENCY???

Hey Anon! I could've sworn I answered this. But apparently I didn't.

I can't stand the justifying of Rhys' deeds. Dark Romance books don't feel the need to do that. The guy doesn't need the justifications and hero framing. The books are thrown around as feminist or empowering. The point is that the relationship is a toxic dynamic. Maas has said in interviews that she writes healthy romances. She views this as a healthy relationship.

You know what's funny? The road to hell is paved with what? Good. Intentions. The best villains are people who meant well but had evil methods to achieve that goal. Rhys did x______ because it was for....? Doesn't matter, still did it. Thanos (in the movies) killed half the universe because it would create more resources for those left. Good intention. Horrible idea considering he had the power to create more resources.

You're right that there were so many other angles this could've gone to make it better. Personally I believe the best idea would've been to just have them grow apart. Cuz that happens and it wouldn't have taken Tamlin being abusive to do. Feyre could've fallen for Rhys knowing what he did was wrong. I'm sorry but there was no excuse or justification for working for Amarantha. Rhys should've been punished. However that would mean more work than comparing a retconned Tamlin to Rhys and made Feyre actually flawed.

Ugh... this series... so glad I'm not buying anymore of her books. You know, it's so weird how easily impressed I am with books that do the bare minimum effort to be decent after reading these.

[supesnaturally]

Tamlin's redemption arc : why it's needed.

Tamlin is a victim of sexual assault and deserves his healing too ...

Tamlin and Feyre were meant to break apart horribly because their love was born of a curse. The foundation of the feud and damage caused by Feylin is brought about by Amarantha's curse on Tamlin, cursed because he would not sleep with her. Tamlin was cursed to fall in love with someone not for love itself, but as a punishment, and it continues to punish. Magically, Feyre and Tamlin's love was poisoned and in reality it was desperate. They were brought together by the evil intentions of another, and that is sad. I'm glad Feyre escaped it and found love, home, family, fulfillment, and healing.

But Tamlin.

Tamlin is a victim of sexual assault and abuse. He was pursued, coerced, kidnapped, threatened, and hurt by Amarantha, when he of all most despised her. When he said no, she harassed him, punished him, harming his people and his friends (poor Lucien), ultimately placing him on a throne next to her to have them "all watch her break him". He'd given up his love, and been imprisoned by the woman who was breaking him. This is non-consensual. This is assault. In the end she killed his love over this. That is traumatic.

When he killed Amarantha, when her curse was broken, so was the love he and Feyre had. Feyre attributed it to the changes she went through, emotionally and physically, and that counted. But what really changed was that the curse that birthed their love died with the one who made it, and their love with it. Feyre did not deserve what happened to her, and neither did Tamlin, prior to UTM, and after it. Their cursed love brought out the worst in each of them. They both deserve a love that is true and good, and brings out the true and best in them. Feyre found it. Tamlin should be allowed to as well.

Tamlin deserves to find his mate, true love, who Amarantha may have already killed UTM. Tamlin was clearly terrified, was lost in despair that there was no escaping her but death, that she would torment and kill anyone she discovered he loved, would make him do it himself as she made him hurt Lucien to spare his friend's life, was now facing the thing that had terrified him most, so much that he condemned himself and everyone else to UTM forever to avoid it, and it still happened - Feyre in Amarantha's clutches and he powerless to save her. Despite the rage, terror and panic he felt, he turned himself into emotionless stone to hide it as much as Rhysand turned himself into AW to hide from Amarantha what he loved.

Amarantha buried Tamlin in a pit he sees no way to escape. She created a curse that would punish him in ways he never imagined, that would punish him long after he thought he was free. He thought he had escaped that monster but it's worse than he ever dreamed. He can't escape because he now sees himself as the monster - he cannot escape that.

Realistic, flawed, morally grey characters are captivating and frustrating. It's hard when those we love make bad, evil choices. Rhysand was wrong to make Feyre dance and drink UTM. Feyre was wrong to violate Tarquin's mind, and trust, to steal. Nesta and Elain were wrong in how they treated Feyre in the human lands. And so on... Using the ends to justify the means is problematic. Tamlin was wrong in what he did to imprison Feyre, controlling his trauma and fear by controlling everything. Feyre was wrong in manipulating his anger to traumatize him, in manipulating Lucien, manipulating everyone to destroy The Spring Court to get revenge for what was done to her sisters by Hybern. Every SJM main character has done both wonderful and terrible things, and that is realistic. I don't forget the good, I don't excuse away the bad.

I judge Tamlin for his wrongs and I also feel compassion for how much Amarantha actually did break him, how he lost control to her over his own life, love and safety. Tamlin is still UTM, alone, with Amarantha, in his mind and since he knows he was wrong - wrong in his actions, wrong to feel loved by the one he loved, wrong to feel she loved him back - he nows feels he deserves this, failed to protect his court, failed Feyre, failed Lucien and everyone and everything, hates himself, and that's not the whole truth. He loved many people very deeply, and their echoes must haunt him....of even how bad things were then, they are now even worse, and even his happy memories have turned to poison.

Amarantha's curse was to punish him for not obeying and sleeping with her, for telling her no, it used love as a means to curse and to break him, and it did, and still is. Completely. He did not deserve that. He deserved better. He deserved his true love, not a curse to fulfill.

In summary, the only truly B&W evil tool is Amarantha. Also Ianthe. And Hybern. Plus Dagdan and Brannagh.... anyone Hybern-ish, really....

[dreaminginvelaris]

elain and nesta are characters that should have been left behind when feyre said goodbye to them in acotar. bringing them into faerie world and writing them "redemption arcs" that they didn't work for was undeserving, specially making nesta have this power that everyone feared and making amren relate to her, like sjm was forcing SO HARD to make nesta into this big hero with a redemption journey, but where is the redemption part? when she refused feyre a house to host a meeting in the mortal realm that wasn't even hers to refuse in the first place, but feyre's? or when she threatened feyre time and time again in acowar, in feyre's own home? or when she begged amren for forgiveness on her knees, but couldn't even say the words aloud to feyre in acosf? making them continue to be in feyre's life only held her back from development tbh, they're people she should have outgrew.

THIS 👏🏼👏🏼

sjm really failed on redeeming nesta tbh. but tbh its not like sjm was trying imo she was really just focused on how many times cass and nesta could fuck. just pisses me off cuz i remember how sjm was all like “this book will be about nesta healing” yeah fucking right🙄

[thelonesomequeen]

Hahaha! I’ve been doing them all on Kindle - but I feel the sentiment! I purchased book 3 with the quickness. Potential spoiler alert for whoever hasn’t read: How did you feel after book 1 going into book 2? I love R and F now, but I hard core mourned F and T - which i know is an unpopular opinion, but I nearly didn’t continue after the beginning of book 2 😳

Potential spoilers for those who haven’t read below…

Are you my literary twin? Because you might be! 😂

I honestly liked F and T during book 1. To the point where I knew she was going to end up with R in book 2 so I nearly didn’t continue on with the series because I didn’t want to know what went so wrong that things changed the way they did. Obviously book 2 is red flag city when it comes to T. Book 1 has them too, but they’re easy to overlook because SJM did a great job sneaking them in and hiding them behind other motivations or actions that seemed innocent/understandable.

I won’t lie, I still have a soft spot for T and I’d like to see a redemption arc at some point. If other characters have gotten one, I think this character should too. As you know, that’s a big time unpopular opinion to have for readers of the series. I really do think the character is redeemable, but you’re not far enough in the series for me to list all the reasons why just yet. I’m sure you’ll see them, though 🦎

[emeraldvagabond]

I don't know why people are still fighting over the Tamlin's redemption. I saw a few people saying that he will probably die and a heroic death can be his only form of redemption. I honestly don't think he needs a redemption other than genuinely apologizing to feyre and lucien for his behaviour. I don't want a step by step justification for everything he did. Just apologizing and improving should be enough... Don't you think? PS: Not really relevant but in my head, his mate is a therapist lol :)

I don't see why people think his only redemption can be death when Rhysand's redemption was crying into a bowl of soup about how, actually, all the trauma he caused was even more traumatizing for him.

Not to mention...I don't think dying, heroic or otherwise, is ever redemption. I think it's a shitty and easy write-off. I think people who think that's the only way he can ever redeem himself have very low expectations of sjm already. I think killing Ianthe was also a poor write-off. I think Tamlin realizing how he allowed her to abuse Lucien is a very vital part in own redemption and in repairing their relationship. I think her punishment should have been decided upon by them- ngl, because at every other point the Spring Court and Tamlin are Lucien's safe place, and Tamlin did ruin that by choosing Ianthe's word over his court, and by extension, over his friend. Tbh, i think if his character hadn't been retconned...Tamlin would have sent her away or killed her anyway, and Lucien would have never have suffered just for the sake of the court. But i'm off topic.

Like I was saying, death is never really a redemption arc, it's a way out of writing one. If someone dies a heroic death and gets forgiven...they don't actually have to go through the steps of earning forgiveness. They don't have to feel the guilt, or make their apologies, (and i mean real apologies...not spinning it to make themselves look like the "true victim" rhysand )they don't have to earn that trust back, they don't have to suffer the possibility of not being forgiven., because the truth is no one owes them forgiveness. They never have to look at the ugly parts of themselves, they never have to rebuild, they never have to reconcile.

So yeah, I think anyone dying for redemption is a shitty excuse to not put in the effort to create a redemption arc. Not to mention, Tamlin's already at the guilt part- which is further than Rhysand ever got. When you're truly sorry you don't spin the narrative in your favor, you acknowledge your wrongs, something that we have yet to see Rhysand ever do. And, if Rhysand, Eris, Cassian, Azriel, etc. can be redeemed? Absolutely so can Tamlin, and without dying. A true redemption- because he's truly sorry.

And- I think Feyre needs to accept her part in the fall of both Spring and Summer. Because Feyre doesn't owe Tamlin forgiveness but the flip-side of that is Tamlin doesn't owe Feyre forgiveness either. A redemption arc is going to be very hard when she wronged the entirety of two courts and refuses to admit to it because she's such a girlboss. Now, we already see that Tamlin is guilty and sorry for accidentally hurting her, and for putting the shield around the house...but giving an apology is a lot harder when the other person also hurt you, and the thousands of innocents under you, and continues to tell you and the whole world that it was actually your fault. That's not to say I think he wouldn't, because I think Tamlin gives very freely in the past books without expecting anything in return, but i think it's going to make a redemption very unfulfilling because it will be one-sided.

I also think it will continue to perpetuate this guilt he feels- I think Feyre and Rhysand will keep feeding into this depression he has over the loss of his people because they're fucking gross and that's what they do. I think, without Feyre's recognition of her role, that it'll be a "of so you know everything was your fault all the time," sort of thing they try to push. And I think Tamlin would accept that as truth, I think he already does.

The topic of a redemption is very difficult for some people cause they can't see outside of Feyre's POV, or around Rhysand's mf sick wings.(/j) so their first reaction is "he has to die!!!!1!111!!!!" without considering like....any other fulfilling possibility. It's very hard to look outside of the perspective we're given to recognize that...yes Tamlin did abuse Feyre, but he was also abused. And Feyre was also his abuser at points. Both of these narratives exist and can coexist. But it's hard to see that when we're only given Feyre's POV. To be honest, i don't think him and Feyre will ever truly reconcile the way I believe he and Lucien can and will, because Feyre will always have Rhysand whispering in her ear and telling her how to feel. Unfortunately.

also, i hope whoever his mate is, he gets to be happy in the end because he deserves it. I do like the idea of them being a therapist- or someone who works in an environment that makes them very practiced in emotional regulation and understanding. :P

[batboys-cumdumpster]

These people are so desperate to demonize Nesta haters lmao. I have BPD and used to act just like Nesta as a teenager and once I realized my actions were hurting people I got help and changed and apologized to the people in my life. Nesta knows that she abuses people to make herself feel better and she continues to do it.

It isn't ableist to hate Nesta for how she acts. Nesta needs actual help, not to sit in a fucking circle and make friendship bracelets with women she only likes because they don't know her dark side and they listen to her. (Do I also need to mention they're strangers that she treats better than her own family? Likely bc they're traumatized and she can control them, how she did with Elain) You can't tell me the moment they'd stand up for themselves, much like Elain did, that Nesta wouldn't lash out.

Nesta is a wretched, vile character and she doesn't deserve Cassian. Her "redemption arc" was pathetic, she never apologized to Feyre face to face, she never had a conversation with her about anything, etc. SJM always has cheap little cop outs for all her plot lines and it's seen in abundance in ACOSF. Every problem has too easy of a solution and it just glossed over.

That baby really sucked out every braincell SJM had cos everything after ACOFAS (ACOSF and CC books) is absolute garbage.

Abusers don't deserve love. Nesta is a rampant, very self aware abuser.

"the way Nesta handles her trauma is so relatable, anyone who dislikes her clearly hasn't struggled with mental health"

"the way Nesta treats Feyre is exactly how I treat my siblings, it's normal"

Y'all are really telling on yourselves for being abusive, manipulative, and very in the wrong here and obviously unapologetic about it when you say this shit. You know how this makes you look, right?

Bragging how you abuse others and using your mental health as an excuse, or using "well we're related" as an excuse, is absolutely fucking mindblowing to me

[darklove9314-blog]

I'm just saying if SJM kills off Nesta, I won't be continuing with the series. Mostly because 1. Nesta is my favorite character (and the only one I can tolerate atm well I can tolerate Cassian somewhat, but we'll get to that in a minute), 2. Nessian is the only two I ship in this series., 3. Nesta's death would add even more pain to Cassian and he'd be one of the only ones in the IC to not get a happy ending. ( along with Nesta), 4. I'd be pissed because if Rhys gets to come back from the dead after all he's done in the series and Nesta dies as a way to get her 'redemption' arc, I think that sends a bad message that all males have to do to redeem themselves is the bare minimum (he was already "redeemed" to many people in ACOMAF) while women have to sacrifice themselves and go above and beyond. which is not a good message to send and further enforces mysognistic viewpoints which is what a character like Nesta is supposed to be breaking. I'm just saying let's not use the death is the only way to redeem yourself for being a "bad" sister. that doesn't even fit what she's done and it invalidates everything she did to make up for it,..which is not okay .

[bookofmirth]

I’m re reading acotar and I forgot how sweet tamlin actually was. He was so excited to have art in his house, he loved playing the violin and poetry… I want him to have a full redemption arc but sadly I think he’s gonna die instead

acotar is one of my favorite in the series, definitely above acowar and acofas. And Tamlin is such an interesting character in it! (So is Lucien, but that's beside the point.) Tamlin and Feyre genuinely loved each other, but his behavior didn't reflect that, later on. I know when I joined the fandom after acomaf there was a ton of Tamlin hate, and we all just rolled with it. But everything he did in acotar was him, too.

Thinking about what the other anon said, about sjm and characters who love music and other art forms, I wonder if Tamlin would get a redemption? Maybe not a whole ass arc, but maybe we will see him get out of beast form and regain the ability to lead the Spring Court. Maybe reconciliation between him and Lucien, if not an outright apology (which Lucien definitely deserves). Since Tamlin did support Feyre's art, and since he did prefer playing the fiddle or whatever it was to being a High Lord, it would seem inconsistent for her to continue to paint him as a villain? He's not a villain really, he's an antagonist. So maybe she'll have him come full circle, coming to terms with everything he went through and what he did to Feyre, and then being able to move on from that.

[feysandandnyx]

I really didn't get to like acosaf, in fact, what I liked most about the book was the political part and how these things can evolve in the next volumes. Az's pov was brilliant to make us look forward to the continuation. I don't like Nesta, and maybe that has conditioned the way I looked at this book. She particularly irritates me, so I considered her healing process necessary, but not enough to make me like her. I stared at this book expecting a conversation between her and Feyre, a verbal apology for the years of abuse she offered her sister, unfortunately it didn't.

No, and don't take it the wrong way, but I found the whole scene that she saves Feyre lazy from a writing standpoint. How many more times will we need to see Feyre or Rhysand having to face death in order to have a plot? Why can't sjm think of other alternatives for writing the climaxes of her books? The whole pregnancy plot was unnecessary and didn't need to be here. I didn't feel that Nesta loved Feyre until the last pages of the book.

She just didn't care and went to have sex with Cassian after finding out that her sister could die if a cure was not found. She spent most of her time in a library and never tried to look for or ask anyone who she could help. She never thought about how her sister was or how she could be feeling. She just remembered that Feyre could die in childbirth to injure Feyre and the IC. What the fuck is this writing when we know she would have set the world on fire and acted differently if she went to Elain or any of her friends in Feyre's place? So in the end Feyre needs to DIE for Nesta to finally understand how she feels? This is ridiculous.

Ridiculous because we don't see Nesta's love for Feyre emerging in her thoughts. There is no progression and real concern about this until the end. Also, if I'm going to take into account everything that was written before, why should I be thrilled with Nesta saving Feyre when Feyre has done this for her all her life? Feyre always did his best to save his family, including his childhood, body, life and sanity! I know she reflects on Tamlin, but seriously did you need five books to realize that Tamlin is unforgivable for hurting Feyre?

Nesta gave incredible powers, all right, but they were so poorly developed that the character just didn't care if she had them or not. Why should I see something like that as a sacrifice? We sacrifice things that are valuable to us and that we will be sad to lose, but worthwhile to save someone we love. A real sacrifice: Rhys giving his all, giving up Feyre and her powers to fix the cauldron.

And yes, it shows that she was more interested in saving Feyre than in maintaining those powers, that she is not an ambitious person, but no one was saying that she was either. No one was saying that she prioritized her powers more than anything or that they were an important part of her trajectory. We know Nesta without these powers. They arouse our curiosity, but I believe that nothing more

Although I don't like Nesta, this is not a comment to hate her, but to express my total disappointment with sjm.

This solution seemed much more like a lazy alternative that sjm found to make Nesta lose some of his powers. Powers that the author did not seem willing to develop or simply did not know what to do with them. At the same time she took away from us the possibility of seeing a real conversation between Feyre and Nesta that many of us have been waiting for years. This is very disappointing and that's what made me dislike this book. Feel how Sarah was manipulating this book to deliver a lazy (and repeated) solution to one of the biggest conflicts of overcoming. So suddenly we have to be grateful to Nesta and acknowledge her arc of redemption just because she saved Feyre? Is that what redeems it? Please...

If there are errors in understanding my writing, I beg your pardon, English is not my mother tongue.