#if marvel had just had Loki complete his arc by coming to terms with his Jotun heritage and trying to help fix their realm it would have

[theefloraknight]

Oh and for all of you claiming what Mobius committing mass genocide for the TVA was ok because he was just “following orders” and Thor being ready to kill all the Jotun in Thor 1 (“ Now! We'll finish them together”) because someone called him a princess, Odin committing a slow agonizing genocide to Jotunheim(their planet was literally was going to die to survive without the casket of ancient winters) and the colonization/genocide of the 9 realms with Hela but it was ok because the 9 realms were chaotic(who’s to say Odin trying to conquer them wasn’t what made them chaotic? keep in mind just because the colonizer says something doesn’t mean it’s true) but Loki is the only one that needs to be punished? Remember that all these other people did it with all of their sanity and felt they were right to do so despite the fact hundreds of thousands(billions upon billions on the daily in Mobius case), and enjoyed it! And Loki did it because he was having a psychotic break, internalized racism, and because the culture he was raised in justified it(which wouldn’t have happened if Odin actually tried to change the attitude towards the Jotun). I’m not saying any of the genocide committed was right, just that the context is entirely different. Also, did any of the other characters really change? We’re told by the narrative Odin, Thor, and Mobius changed, but Odin and Thors actions say otherwise while Mobius pretends he didn’t admit the TVA was his mf purpose and Hela was locked away by Odin, and we don’t get any character development until What If.

[bedlamsbard]

Reread the Hydra Cap AU and I really enjoyed it once more; it fucks supremely. I know that you are not a huge Tony Stark fan, and that’s legit, and if he wasn’t a major player in that hypothetical fic, it would make sense, BUT. I do really enjoy what you’ve set up for him in the concept writing. What’s he got going for him without his Vast Fortune, yknow? Obviously, the trope of the genius inventor working his way up from nothing is problematic and a bit silly, but. Well-executed it’s fun, yknow

Thank you! I really do think about this one daily, though there are a couple of reasons it hasn't gone beyond concept writing. Chief among which is that it doesn't have a plot, just set-up, and part of that set-up involves running out all the events of Phase 1. (The sticking point has actually been Thor, since so many of the events of that movie are driven by factors that wouldn't be affected by the HYDRA-SHIELD changeup, but have pretty drastic consequences further down the line; if Loki and the Chitauri are still invading in this AU, it completely changes the dynamics and plot of the story. If they're not, then SHIELDRA's response back in Thor has to explain why not.) (And the way my brain works I can't just ignore it because it's more convenient.)

Tony was always intended to be a main character in the story (or maybe a secondary character -- Yonder level of involvement, anyway, not Horizon level), since part of the conceit was setting up the Avengers in secret. The AU's divergence point is back in IM1, during the Tony-Obadiah fight at the end of the film, with Tony and Pepper believed killed when the building collapsed. (Possibly Obadiah did not get fried by the arc reactor overloading? Specifics aren't important.) SHIELD -- which was still run by Fury at this point -- pulled Tony and Pepper out of the rubble, but Obadiah had already rushed a funeral and completed his takeover of the company. While Tony and Pepper were recovering, Obadiah sold the prototype of his version of the suits -- the Chessmen suits -- to Alexander Pierce (a.k.a. to Hydra), which tipped Fury off and started him digging, tipping Pierce off and resulting in an attempted assassination and a successful hostile takeover of SHIELD. Basically the SHIELD on SHIELD violence from CATWS but the bad guys won.

Tony was out of the fight the whole time, since he was still recovering from having a building dropped on him, but was at Fury's secret base when he and the SHIELD loyalists limped back after the end of that fight. (The named ones are Clint Barton, Maria Hill, and Phil Coulson, but it was a pretty significant number of survivors; other loyalists, including Natasha and Sharon Carter, remained undercover at SHIELD/HYDRA.) Since then Tony's been with realSHIELD (and has upgraded the Iron Man suit); at some point he was able to get in touch with Rhodey, who's still with the USAF and is still technically the liaison to Stark/Stane Industries, now doing the spy thing. Tony built him the War Machine suit but I don't think he's had a chance to wear it yet. I don't know exactly what he would be doing in this hypothetical story, but he would be in it, especially for a rematch with Iron Monger and the Chessmen suits. He's with realSHIELD, so he's not exactly working himself up from nothing in this scenario. It would still be a Steve and Natasha focused story, but he's there.

As for whether or not I'm a Tony fan -- I actually am; he is not my favorite character in the MCU, but he is a character I do really like. It is just not super obvious in my writing because most of my fic has set been set post-CACW and because I mostly write with a Steve and Natasha focus, Tony does not come out well from their POVs at this point in time. I know that the fandom is really polarized on the team Iron Man vs. team Cap issue; it is one of the few times when I have been stopped IRL by a stranger over Marvel. (It is the one time I've seen Marvel fen act like SW fen in terms of taking sides in a fight I wasn't aware I was having.) Within the CACW to Endgame timeline there's not really any way to write any of the characters involved without having it come off as taking sides and that ends up reflecting back as "the author does not like either Steve or Tony," which is not true; I write the characters like I see them in the films and during this timeline they are portrayed by the PTB as being EXTREMELY polarized towards each other. I'm not a hack; if I'm writing him at a different point in time, I'm not going to write him the same way I do during the IW timeline. If/when I go back to Reaches he'll be a viewpoint character there and that'll be Avengers!Tony.

[lokiondisneyplus]

Most Marvel post-credit scenes hint at the future. Loki opted for a blunter approach: the God of Mischief would return in season 2.

Based on the final turn of events, there was really no other choice: Loki (Tom Hiddleston), having journeyed to the furthest point in spacetime with his variant Sylvie (Sophia Di Martino) to meet the founder of the TVA, a scientist-turned-survivor-of-multiversal-war known as He Who Remains (Jonathan Majors), finds himself zapped into a new reality when his lady self slays the omnipresent being. The mind reels!

Creator Michael Waldron takes delight in the endless possibilities of Loki’s core premise. And as a veteran of Rick and Morty, he knows what anchors a mind-bending show, and what will keep Hiddleston’s character hurtling through his chaotic, rewritten future. Below, Polygon talks to Waldron about landing on the key choices of Loki season 1, what to expect from season 2, and a bit on his next project, the wrestling drama Heels, which is set to premiere on Aug. 15.

Did you know there’d be a second season of Loki from the beginning or was that choice made later in the process?

Michael Waldron: We always knew that it was a possibility. We always knew that we wanted to propel Loki and these characters out into the MCU after this, into further stories. But that didn’t really crystallize as a sure thing until we were in production and everything. And as we were really figuring out the finale.

So you were still cracking the ending as you shot the show?

There was a hiatus due to the pandemic. So things were constantly being retooled because of that. I think, by and large, everything with He Who Remains and the Sylvie-Loki conflict was always there. But that cliffhanger was the sort of thing that suddenly became a really appealing opportunity, a chance for that to lead into a second season.

What element of the series helped you crack the macro story of Loki, and made all the other pieces fall into place? Each episode almost feels like a standalone adventure, similar to Rick and Morty, but what helped it all click?

The first couple of weeks in the writers room was just laying out the individual episodes. It was very important to me that each episode stood on its own, and you could say “This is the Lamentis episode,” “This is the apocalypse moon episode,” “This is the Void episode.” I didn’t want it to just be cut up chapters and have one long continuous story. Obviously, we had to figure out the time travel for things to slot into place. I think a big idea for us was the way you get around the TVA by hiding in apocalypses. That felt like such a big, cool, exciting idea that it drove the action of episode 2, episode 3, and in a way it’s like Alioth is the ultimate apocalypse that He Who Remains is hiding behind. That sci-fi idea cracked a lot open for us. I know that after we had that I went home and I slept a little sounder.

Did adding the multiverse to the Marvel Cinematic Universe feel like blowing something up or expanding it, in terms of narrative possibilities?

In the same way that after the first couple Iron Man movies, and with the first Avengers, suddenly these movies were kind of going to space. Then we had Guardians. I think of the multiverse as another version of that. It’s new ground to cover, and particularly interesting because characters meeting other versions of themselves and other versions of people they know is... cool. That’s just a cool sci-fi concept! But I think with anything, as you expand outward, it only works if the humanity remains. It’s exciting to watch characters dealing with big crazy multiversal conflicts because we can see ourselves in them. I think you just have to hold on to the humanity that makes these stories work in the first place.

Did you go back to the Thor movies for Loki? Was there anything to find in the past of Marvel as you were paving the future?

Absolutely. I mean I watched them many times, contrary to what Twitter might think because I did some bits on there saying that I’ve never seen Avengers and I upset some people [laughs]. I have seen it many times. “Confirmed: Loki writer has seen Avengers and saw it before writing Loki show.”

In fact, I was watching all these movies on a loop in the writers’ room. I gleaned so much because you watch the evolution of the character. Avengers was particularly informative because our story picks up Loki right after that, but I also I found a lot of inspiration in Thor: The Dark World, a maybe sometimes maligned movie that I actually really enjoy. I just think there’s great stuff with Loki being tangentially responsible for the death of his mother, how he reacts to that. That is the start of his journey of that version of Loki’s redemption, so I was inspired by that.

What’s propelling the characters into season 2? Where are you headed in basic terms?

In season 1, you saw a lot of characters reckoning with and questioning their own glorious purpose, and that glorious purpose changing, [characters] realizing that that can change. Everybody except for Sylvie. I think she holds onto hers, which is vengeance, and to the detriment of us all, perhaps. And we’ve got a Loki who, at the top of our show, assessed himself as a villain and, I would argue, at the end of our show, has become a little bit of a hero. There’s nothing more heroic to me than fighting for the right thing and losing. You see that washing over him as he’s there back at the TVA, after Sylvie has knocked back there. And then he gets up because that is what heroes do — they keep going. So I think that you’re gonna see a Loki that looks at himself in a different way certainly that at the top of this.

Do you hope to explore more of Sylvie’s backstory in season 2?

I guess we’ll see. We certainly have our own rich backstory for her, stuff that didn’t get to make it into the show. Elissa Karasik, our episode 2 writer, wrote a lot of amazing backstory for Sylvia and everything. So those ideas exist out there.

And her version of Thor?

Tune in.

How did He Who Remains come about? Did you bring the character to Marvel or was that a character Marvel hoped to introduce?

I was pushing and our team was pushing early on in the writers’ room that it should be a version of Kang up in that Citadel, sort of fusing the mythology of He Who Remains with a little bit of the Immortus mythology. And that was a thing we were excited to do. And it became clear that it actually made sense for our story. The only way we were going to do it was if it made sense, but it was like, who had a better argument for creating the TVA to prevent other versions of themselves from existing then a guy as evil as Kang the Conqueror?

You wrote the upcoming Doctor Strange in the Multiverse of Madness — did Marvel hire you for that after Loki? Does the movie feel like a continuation of the show?

Yeah, that opportunity came as we were getting ready to start production on Loki. It was a pleasure. I got to work with Sam Raimi, a hero of mine. I was in London for five months making that movie at the top of this year. We had a blast. I think that it’s a continuation in as much as ever every Marvel movie is to some extent a chapter in an ongoing story, but these things are meant to stand alone and the most important thing about Doctor Strange too is making the most kick ass Doctor Strange movie we could.

Is Loki a two-part show now or are you invested in telling a longer story with future seasons beyond season 2?

Time will tell, but I do my hope is that season 1 stands on its own. We always wanted to tell a complete story there. And in whatever the next chapter may be will stand on its own as well.

Your next show, Heels, is already on the way. We got a big preview out of Comic-Con this year, but I’m curious about the scope of this story. You’re starting with two brothers running an independent wrestling franchise, but you’ve dropped the name “Vince McMahon” a few times — is this about the building of an empire? Would you liken it to The Godfather or Breaking Bad?

I always thought about it a little bit of a Scorsese-sort-of rise, and we’ll see if there’s a fall. Starting from humble beginnings and trying to build some crazy. Wrestling was certainly not always the empire that it is and that’s what’s interesting, to watch the evolution of a family-run wrestling business from something you do in your small towns and perhaps a national, even global empire. That would be a really compelling arc for a show over the course of several seasons. I’d be excited to explore that.

What’s the most dramatically fulfilling wrestling moment you’ve witnessed? What’s the bar for the wrestling drama of Heels?

It’s gotta be Hulk Hogan turning heel in the WCW. There was an invasion storyline, these guys from WWF, Kevin Nash and Scott Hall, came over and they were the bad guys. It was at a Pay-per-view and and they were beating up on the good guys that you love, and here comes Hulk Hogan in the yellow and red and he’s the hero. “The Hulk’s gonna get ‘em! The good guy’s here!” And then the Hulk just leg drops Randy Savage. That was the original Red Wedding. I just think about the boldness of turning him heel. To a little kid... I wasn’t even like a massive Hulk fan, but he was just such a mythological figure. What a chance that Hulk Hogan took as a performer, as a bankable kind of movie star at that point. That was bold, risky storytelling and it set off two years of amazing storytelling with Hogan just playing a craven, cowardly heel and just being so evil. I really respect the hell out of them for doing that. That was a great storyline.

[suntears1037]

Hey ummmmm, Loki (2021) Fandom can I leave my hot take for the Loki/Slyvie discourse? And overall Series discourse?

Am I the only one here that took the Slyvie/Loki moments in Ep.4 in not a romantic way but actually symbolism for self acceptance/love?????????

LIKE IS THIS JUST ME? CAUSE I REALLY DONT THINK WITH MOBIUS CONFRONTING LOKI ABOUT THE WEIRD RELATIONSHIP IS WRONG THAT MARVEL HAS OR EVEN HAD AN INTENTIONS OF LOKI/SLYVIE BEING A THING BY THE END.

I mean fuck, y’all, the episode title is called THE NEXUS EVENT, said event being when Loki and Slyvie ACCEPT who they are not as beings destined to LOSE, but as beings destined to SURVIVE while accepting their fates and approaching deaths on Lementis-1 right as the giant meteor crashes and they see and prepare for the oncoming impact. The scene briefly cuts to show Mobius and Hunter B-15 looking at the branched timeline slowly almost peacefully???? Approaching the red line?

And if anything I just find it poetic that Loki is started off as this troubled self loathing character but is now starting to accept himself. Especially after everything that he had gone through for Thor (2011) - Avengers (2012) he was filled with hurt, anger, malice, and animosity to most things, but since coming off the timeline and seeing his whole “destined” life literally play out before his eyes he was able to start on his journey, albeit messy and sloppy (see Ep. 3 discourse about Loki being to OOC) which in my opinion is completely in character for THIS Loki not INFINITY SAGA Loki. Which I believe is almost the nucleus for most of the discourse is that a lot of fans want it to be IS Loki (because thats all the fans have been given throughout the completion of the MCU) but its not, so some of the actions that this Loki has taken may be hypocritical to the actions that the IS Loki might have taken if he was taken into the TVA (if he didn’t get killed by Thanos) but we also have to remember Loki in the show has only had TWO MCU movie equivalents of his IS Arc, when in total he had ５total movies in the IS and there was major character development from Thor: The Dark World and Thor: Ragnorok for IS Loki’s character development and arc leading up to his sacrifice in Infinity War.

Loki in the series has a completely new character arc with the knowledge of his IS arc/future, but in my eyes is able to come to terms with his faults and self hatred faster with the help of Slyvie which is almost a reflection of himself. Especially in Ep. 3 when she was calling Loki out on all of his behaviors and questioning why he was the way he is. Leading up to Ep. 4.

ANYWAYS I KNOW THIS IS A TAKE ™️

But I just wanted to share some of my thoughts on the discourse on this site.

[arielsojourner]

With the end of Loki Season 1 and all that is implied by the end of WandaVision and the new Doctor Strange Multiverse of Madness movie, it is clear that the MCU multiverse is here to stay.  It is also clear that the One Who Remains (*cough* Kang *cough*) we met in the last episode is the one who defeated ALL OF HIS VARIANT counterparts and he will return and perhaps win again. That is a terrifying thought. In the meantime, we will have lots of variant version of him.

So this could be a god awful mess of characters used and then abandoned like broken toys, and lack of continuity, and gaping plot holes. This gives the MCU writers a huge out to get very lazy (and seeing what happened with the Star Wars Sequels you know it could happen here and ruin good characters with plots that make NO SENSE! I’m looking at you Palpatine!!!) I mean why bother to write a good script since continuity can be rewritten in a second and inconsistencies can be magic handwaved away?  

As someone who likes the MCU and before that Marvel and DC comics, I am of the opinion that the MCU can only pull this off for the next phases and pull it off WELL one of two ways:

1. They set a series of “in universe” rules on how the multiverse works. Who can travel. How can they travel. What is the effect of a multiverse war, of moving verses, of changing etc. How does this work alongside the already existing MCU rules (and I use that term loosely here) when it comes to time travel. Consistent world building will be key here. (I’m think of Jack the Giant Killer, that movie with Ewan McGregor that barely made a blip in the movie world but had GREAT consistent world building and internal magic rules). It will only be a good solid story arc if we have a consistent set of rules for all the MCU and for the character variations.

or

2. They embrace the crack. They embrace aaaaalll the crack. Anything really does go. The actors bring it so so hard, they chew on the scenery. They jump in the lobster tank. The writers explain nothing. Is Colson alive? Is he dead? Is Agent Carter canon? How many Lokis are alive? Does it really matter? They make a beautiful cracktastic mess of everything fan fiction style. The MCU literally looks like AO3 by the end of this, complete with coffee shop AUs side by side AOB and de-aging fics involving Alligator Loki and Howard the Duck.  We’re talking Deadpool breaking the 4th wall for everyone here. All the Spider people. Mutants. Every. Single. Disney property making a cameo or getting a call out. Hell, have Grogu show up at Xavier’s School for Gifted Youngers. They make this work by just embracing the chaos. 

That’s the only way this will work.

I’m secretly voting for option 2.

[alirhi]

Loki ranting

Okay. I had this thought in my head of like just compiling links of all the Loki shit I've posted/reblogged so far so that when I get into a conversation about the show and how it fucking disgusted me, I can just be like "here. here's this masterlist post, go read all this shit. This is my entire argument, and not only mine, but a lot of stuff posted by people far more intelligent and level-headed and eloquent than I am, whom I happen to agree with." Because the alternative is constantly getting fired up all over again, and that is exhausting.

BUT! I'm stupid and don't know how tumblr works. Apparently I can't just be like "give me all the Loki-tagged shit I've got" I can only search all the Loki-tagged shit on all of tumblr. And I'm not scrolling back through all of my posts. I talk too fucking much for that shit 😂

So, I'll try to remember all of my grievances with how the MCU has treated Loki, and all of the excellent posts made by other, equally upset fans, and put it all together here under this nice, neat little cut for everyone else's sanity and scrolling convenience...

For people who actually read my shit fairly regularly - bless you, you crazy, patient people. I love you! - this is going to be a lot of repetition of shit you've already read. Probably at least twice. I'm passionate and I have a terrible memory lol. Sorry.

Anyway, first, for those who don't know me and haven't been following my explosions of rage for the past couple of months, some quick background: I do not read comic books, so Loki's Marvel comic canon means nothing to me. I know almost nothing about it. The reason I'm so in love with the character in the MCU is because I am an eclectic witch and the deity I've actively loved and worshiped the longest in my life (literally for as long as I can remember) is Loki. So when he was mentioned in The Mask, I squeed. When they named Matt Damon's character after him in Dogma, I cheered.

When Thor came out in 2011, I just about died from happiness. I was hungry for any representation of this underappreciated god, no matter what it was. I didn't even bitch about how underpowered he was, because at least he was there. But I'm getting slightly ahead of myself.

I can hear anyone reading this going "Why Loki? Isn't he, like, evil? Like basically the Norse version of The Devil?" Because I heard all this shit irl all the fucking time. And no. So let me give you a quick rundown of who Loki actually is.

Loki is a Trickster God. He's often referred to as the God of Mischief. He is not and never was evil, simply chaotic and hedonistic. Loki Laufeyjarson was the son of Laufey (that's mama; they changed her to a man for some reason in the movie) and Fárbauti. Right from the start, from his name, we get a sign of how Loki goes against traditional norms of the time, because in Norse culture, families were patrilineal, and surnames were "son/daughter of father" (which would have made him Loki Fárbautitason), not the mother. But Loki's surname is matrilineal. Feminist icon woo! lol

Though he's a Jotunn, Loki is counted among the Gods (Aesir) in Norse tradition. Depending on his mood, he is alternately helpful or disruptive to the other Gods. I'm not gonna sit and teach a whole text class on him lol but I'll use my favorite example of Misunderstood Loki - the conception of Sleipnir!

So, get this shit. This is also part of why I DO NOT follow Odin and never fucking will (a very small part, but still part of the reason). So, the other Norse Gods are petty motherfuckers, and they wanted some shit built but didn't want to pay the dude doing the building. So they were like "okay, if you can get it done in X amount of time, we'll pay you, but if you can't manage it NO MATTER WHAT, this whole thing is free." And they made sure he had NO help, nothing but him, his materials, and his Very Good Horsey. And this guy and his horse were fucking BAMFs. So it was looking like he was definitely gonna get it done in time, and Odin was like "nah, fuck that shit. I'm cheap." and so he sent Loki to distract the work horse. Loki transformed into a mare and lured the horse away, got fucked, got pregnant, gave birth to the 8-legged (for some reason) horse Sleipnir. Odin rides Loki's son into battle. Um. Kay.

So Loki helped Odin be a petty mf, and Odin got himself a new pet out of the deal.

Oh, also, because he's smart af and a shapeshifter and a master magician and genderfluid, Loki "fails" to fit the super fucking toxic and narrow Norse/Aesir view of "a real man". He prefers intelligence and manipulation to solve problems rather than violence, he's not afraid to behave like a clown if it gets shit done, and that grosses the Aesir out, so they constantly ridicule him for being "less than a man".

Loki is the God of the outcast and the misunderstood. The marginalized people from all walks of life. He is the God of the LGBT community. In modern terms, he's pansexual, polyamorous (married to Sigyn and they are deeply in love, but boy gets around and I've never seen any indication that Sigyn gives a shit) and genderfluid.

Okay. Focus, Ali. This is part of why I usually post multiple rants instead of one big long one XD The longer I ramble, the more I get sidetracked and forget the original point.

So. Loki's awesome, and being a Trickster, is powerful as all fucking hell. There's not much he can't do.

And now we come to Thor (the movie, not the deity). Loki's there! 24-year-old Ali is spazzing! All is right with the world!

Oh lord, they've actually done him justice?! Amazing! He's complex and nuanced and emotional, just like the real Loki! I loved this movie. Loved. It. The climactic thing with trying to blow up Jotunheim never really made much sense to me until someone made an excellent point the other day about Loki being raised in a racist society that was racist against his own race, he just didn't know it yet, poor child. Baby Thor was never corrected when he pledged to commit mass genocide, so Baby Loki probably absorbed the lesson then that Jotunns=evil and killing them all will win his father's love. Anyway, 2011 Loki was a beautiful, heartbreaking portrayal of the God I've loved all my life and spent 24 years longing to see depicted on the big screen.

Then The Avengers happened. And I saw another Loki very close to Norse mythology - mainly, how he's treated. In the beginning of the movie, he's sick, exhausted, and in pain. He can hardly stand, he stumbles and needs help when he walks. He was very obviously tortured, and the sickly blue light of the scepter's control is in his eyes. That gets less and less pronounced as the movie goes on, showing Loki working his way free of it, but in the beginning, he's a mess. Because he was tortured and used by Thanos. Marvel directly confirmed this, and that he was under the scepter's/Mind Stone's control. Loki's actions are not his own in The Avengers. He's under both threat and Thanos' direct control. The movie actually shows The Other directly threatening him to keep him on task, because this is not Loki's plan. It is not what he wants. He's being used and villainized... Just like in real life. It hurt to see this done to him, but the accuracy was too beautiful to ignore.

Thor: The Dark World comes out. I've heard people complain that this movie is the weak link in the Thor trilogy. I disagree. I think that's Ragnarok, for a bunch of reasons, but we'll get there. (And for the record, I loved Ragnarok, too. It was a funny movie. Infinity War and the Disney+ series are the only portrayals of Loki in the MCU that I truly fucking hated.) Anyway, good, fun movie. Had its faults, as all movies do, but it still followed Loki's real-life arc in a way. How? By having Loki dragged back to Asgard in chains and imprisoned underground. Again, not super happy that this happened to my love, and having to see it on screen was painful, but at least in the MCU he's not chained to a rock with venom dripping on his face for eternity, so there's that. (poor Sigyn. how tired do her arms get, holding up that bowl? best wife ever, amirite?)

In TDW, we're shown Loki's love for Frigga, who favored him and taught him magic as a child. We see his bravado; his attempts to mask his true feelings, especially grief. We see him slowly coming back to himself after the events of The Avengers, and slowly mending his relationship with his brother. He accepts that Odin will likely never love him, but Thor just might, because they were close when they were young. "I didn't do it for him." No, no my sweet, you did it for your brother, and a little out of guilt for what happened to your mother.

At the end, Loki fakes his death and escapes, taking the throne, and I have mixed feelings about this. Not the writer's choices here; I love that completely! A natural progression in Loki's story. But my joy is tainted by how closely they're following the Eddas now. Because Loki's escape from his prison heralds the beginning of Ragnarok. And Loki will die in Ragnarok. I don't want to see that play out in front of my face. I won't be able to handle the grief (spoiler alert! IW broke me. I almost walked out of the theater. Loki's death was legitimately fucking traumatic for me. I don't even care how pathetic that is. That grief was real, it was intense, and I still shake and cry when I think about it.)

Marvel announces that Thor 3 will be called Ragnarok. The internet treats this as a shocking revelation. I roll my eyes and mumble "duh" to myself and move on XD

Then they say Ragnarok will be a buddy comedy. I throw up a little in my mouth and no longer want to live on this planet. If they're going to make something called Ragnarok, could they at least treat it with even a fraction of the respect they've shown these characters thusfar? Jfc. I mean, I'll see it anyway, because I'm a whore for Tom Hiddleston lol. But come on, people!

I hated that they made Hel the long-lost older sister and Fenrir her fucking pet/attack dog. Those are my favorites of Loki's children! Hel is such an incredible badass that the early Christians named their dimension of eternal torture after her! They were terrified of her, to the point of naming the place that terrified them most after her. That's awesome! And Fenrir's just the best. I love wolves. Those two details, and Odin's retcon of "we're not Gods! ...lol, except your sister. she's totally a Goddess. and def gonna kill literally everything, so... good luck! byyyeeeee" pissed me off royally.

The rest was great. I genuinely liked this movie. Still do. And they finally used The Immigrant Song! That was pretty cool. If they'd thrown in Bring the Hammer Down and Thunderstruck, I might've called this movie perfect. XD

I wasn't totally in love with their portrayal of Loki in Ragnarok. Yes, the falling for 30 minutes line was funny, as was "I have to get off this planet" and "YES! That's how it feels!" And "Get Help" was funny as hell. But also, like... There is no way Loki would have been the dumb one in that first encounter with Hela. Also, he can teleport and project copies of himself and shit, so... He would not have been that desperate to go straight back to Asgard and bring her right along with them. Loki's not stupid. But whatever. Movie's gotta movie.

What I did love was seeing the slow mending of his relationship with Thor continuing, and the badass fighting on the bridge. I also loved that, like Real Loki, Movie Loki helped when help was needed, was quick and clever, and while he was carrying out the main plan, he was also planning ahead and grabbing the Tesseract. Yes, that drew Thanos right to them, but that's a whole other thing. Loki never would have left that thing on Asgard to be destroyed or lost.

And now Infinity War. Hooooly fucking shit. You know what? No. I'm not going into this. He was killed, years of character growth were erased forever, my heart fucking shattered. The end.

Endgame. IW hurt me so bad I didn't see Endgame until this year. I actually watched Civil War first (for context: I had actively avoided all Cap movies until this year because I fucking hate Steve Rogers. I find him insufferable. Did not realize what I was denying myself until I watched CW and finally saw the charms of Bucky. When he appeared in IW, I was so lost. XD I was like "...who dis? Murder Jesus?" also I just... didn't care. I was numb by then from crying through most of the movie over Loki)

So, anyway. Endgame. Loki picks up the Tesseract in alternate 2012, escapes, fans go "yay! he didn't actually die!" I go "yes he fucking did. Five years of his life, gone. Five years of growth and change, erased. Loki is dead. This will not be the same."

I was more right than I could have predicted. Now we come to the point of this rant. Sorry it took so long, but you were warned lol.

The Loki series makes me so angry I actually get sick to my stomach. It was fucking TRASH. When I praised Marvel for following Norse mythology so faithfully earlier? Yeah. I DID NOT MEAN TREAT HIM THE WAY THE OTHER GODS DID. I did not mean paint him as a pitiful clown, a joke, a caricature of who he truly was, with his pain and suffering played for LAUGHS.

This is supposed to be 2012 Loki, newly freed from Thanos' control. The Loki we saw in the beginning of TDW - snarky, exhausted, nihilistic. The Loki who rolled his eyes and said "get on with it" expecting to be killed.

The bumbling clown flipping on a dime from posturing to calling himself weak is not 2012 Loki. That is not ANY Loki. That is Tom Hiddleston in a black wig doing what he's told by a shitty writer who had no fucking idea what he was doing and was salty about his (bad) original script (for something totally fucking unrelated) getting killed.

In Episode 1, Loki is mocked, imprisoned, stripped against his will, tormented, belittled, and given a flippant summary of all the trauma Actual MCU Loki suffered that this one skipped out on, with no context, no acknowledgement of the trauma he's already lived quite fucking recently, and with the narrative twisted to not only erase all the abuse he's suffered, but to make it all his fault. And this is supposed to make him want to help these people?

And worse, IT FUCKING WORKS. WHAT?! I CAN'T- FUCKING WHAT?! Remember when I said LOKI IS NOT FUCKING STUPID?! So why is he STUPID?

Episode 2, he's a child. Mentally, this Loki is a fucking child. Now we've erased all the growth and development of his entire adult life. He's dopey, impatient, impulsive, desperate for a pat on the back and actually shows it. Yes, abused and neglected children crave the positive attention we never received, and we often grow up to be a bit emotionally stunted. But not all of us, and not Loki. Not as we've seen him EVER in the rest of the MCU. Playful and a bit callous at times? Absolutely! But not a big dumb fucking puppy.

Episode 3, a ray of hope, despite Sylvie! (I hate Sylvie) Loki casually admits he's pan/bi; labels never come up, but he admits to being with both men and women! He sings! Not really relevant to whether I approve of his portrayal or not lol but Tom has a beautiful voice, Norwegian ("Asgardian" lol) is a gorgeous, entrancing language, and I could watch that one bit on loop for eternity and never get bored. And then, finally, we see a glimpse - a glimpse - of Loki's power! He stops a falling building and pushes it right back up! Are we finally getting to see what he can really do? Will the next episode bring us Loki in all his glory?

Nope. 4 and 5 we see him mocked and pushed around and utterly irrelevant. Again. We see tiny reflections of what he could maybe theoretically do in other random Loki variants, but the "main" (lawl. main. it was the Sylvie and Mobius show. Loki was never the main anything.) Loki? Nothing. He wears his heart on his sleeve for no reason, bonds with the man who imprisoned, taunted, and gaslit him, is killed, and continues to be a moron and a joke. Always the clown. Always the dumb one. The one with the bad ideas. The inferior Loki.

Don't even get me started on that finale. I can't. This already took so much out of me. Fuck Marvel. Fuck this fucking show. I just... I'm done.

[toshladuk]

Wandavision

...or is it WandaVision?!

I like the most of the world it seems loooove this show! As I write this there’s still just under 12hrs before the series finale is released which is 8am where I am. Annoyingly due to work I’m gonna have to wait to see it and as the internet is “the internet” I’m going to have to completely avoid any and all forms of social media if nothing else because someone somewhere will post about it and algorithms dictate that content will turn up on one of my feeds somewhere.

As for the show itself I could not have been more blindsided by how fantastic this series is. Of the 4 Disney+ Marvel shows we already have trailers for this was the one I was least excited by. I now find that bizarre because it was when the MCU decided to get more fantastical with its storytelling that’s what drew me in, using directors like Taika Waititi, James Gunn and Edgar Wright (even though he departed Ant-Man and you can still see his fingerprints all over that movie). I feel confident even though the tale is not quite finished that this will be my favourite MCU property going forward.

Just the care and the craft of taking these old American sitcom tropes and using them to pay homage without resorting to cheap parody. Weaving a genuinely moving story about Wanda Maximoff’s grief and what her character has had to endure while still producing some genuinely very funny sitcom moments. Also lets not forget they’ve been able to introduce at least 2 new major characters for the MCU going forward in the newly superpowered Monica Rambeau aka Photon or Spectrum and the deliciously naughty Agatha Harkness. They also managed to breathe new life into a couple of side characters with the now Dr Darcy Lewis and Agent Jimmy Woo. That’s a lot of heavy lifting for the show to do in such a short amount of time and it’s a testament to the writing that it has all seemed seamless. For the record I am well and truly aboard the Darcy Lewis & Jimmy Woo X-Files style show train!!!

What has really made the show so memorable though is the amazing central performances of Elizabeth Olsen, Paul Bettany and Katherine Hahn. In a show with such a unique concept, so silly sounding from the outside for the actors to keep the material grounded and truthful, even if they are a cosmic witch and a synthezoid, just goes to show what talent is on display here. I loved finding out that as well as being a brilliant “serious” actor Paul Bettany is also a gifted physical comedian and that Katherine Hahn has far more range and subtlety than many give her credit for. The MVP though is Elizabeth Olsen, great comedic acting in the sitcom chapters of the show especially in the nuances of portraying the different eras as well as showing us some gut wrenching emotion as her ideal world starts to crumble around her. Every time I see her face crack or that bottom lip start to quiver I’m welling up.

The one thing I am wary of though is the possible backlash, because even though it’s been fun joining in all the theorising online some people seem to get so enamoured with their predictions that inevitably when the showrunners go in a different direction they get butthurt and start dropping crappy videos all over the internet about how the show was riddled with bad writing and plotholes etc etc. You know the type I mean, the bespectacled bearded men of YouTube who appoint themselves as gatekeepers for whatever fandom they believe themselves to be the king of! I call it Last Jedi-itus!

Despite the last paragraph I may as well throw a couple of my theories and wishes for how the show will end, but if all or none come to fruition I was glad I was along for the ride

- Wanda is NOT set up to be the antagonist of Dr Strange 2 because I think the MCU is becoming far more nuanced and subtle in it’s storytelling and I doubt Marvel and the shows writers want to fall into “emotional woman becomes baddie” trope.

- Hayward, though a dick, turns out not to be simply a baddie but someone acting out of fear and mistrust of superheroes due to the blip. Possibly a continuation of the anti-superpowered story arc started in Civil War?

- Tommy and Billy are real because even though conceived in the Hex through chaos magic Wanda still physically gave birth to them. 

- Agatha Harkness will remain a bad guy for the time being (she did kill Sparky after all!), I think she’ll kidnap and escape with the twins at the end, but I can see her long term MCU future becoming more Loki-like, sometimes mischievous, sometimes malevolent but always selfishly motivated.

- Vision will (hopefully) live on using White Vision’s body but I think this happens in another MCU project down the line. This is because I think Wanda is left all but broken by the end of the show.

- Monica will kick ass in the final battle but they are saving her spectacular stuff and full power set reveal for Captain Marvel 2

- The cameo is.... I have no feckin idea! I used to think it was Ian McKellen but I’m not sure now. 

- This is a one and done show, there’s no second season of Wandavision per-see though there may be spin offs. I hope thats how they do it anyway.

Anyway that’s my two cents worth. Whatever happens I’ve really enjoyed the ride and even if the ending is not what I expect or even want I have absolute trust in Kevin Feige, Jac Schaeffer and Matt Shakman and besides this is only the beginning of the so called Multiverse Saga, so I’m not expecting a neat ending with all loose ends tied up. There’s plenty of story left to tell.

[planesofduality]

The Story Behind Solas with Dragon Age Lead Writer Patrick Weekes - Dialogue Wheel (Part 2 of 3)

Full video: 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aFx1nCdZFjw&t=1s

Part one here

Time: 12:16

When it comes the characterization of a character that you’ve already been give at least some sort of name to. We know that this character is some sort of trickster god - when you were trying to develop and make him some a stand-alone character, did you ever have to rely on what the mythos already established of this particular kind of eighth-seat god that maybe a lot people hadn’t heard a lot about?

Well, I think, like we talked about before, one of the great things about the Dragon Age universe is everything that you learn in a codex entry is something that someone else heard in a story and wrote it down somewhere and you’re reading half of the book. So the good news on that is anything we wanted to do with Fen’Harel, there was so little and what was in there was already so sketchy that we had all the freedom we needed to play with him.

That turned out to be a nice thing because I think if we had someone that was completely by-the-books, already established, their character already given, it would feel like more of a letdown to write that as a character or you would have to play against type, you’d have to do something completely different to show he wasn’t just what the stories wrote about him. And, you know, in some ways that is both liberating but also disappointing to people who might have liked  the original stories. This was a fun experience of getting to fill in some of the gaps.

The only thing I think we had to struggle against is that anyone who hears “trickster” or anyone who hears “oh, he’s chaotic and unpredictable” it feels like there is a natural urge to go to “He’s Loki in the Avengers. He’s the guy who’s gonna make large grand-standing plans.” Or, you know, “He’s the Riddler, who’s gonna leave clues to test you.” We had to get away from that: “Let’s tone that back a little bit, let’s not have him be the Jack Nicholson Joker version of the Dread Wolf.”

That’s quite a quote.

You got Dorian as a large, grandiose , extravagant figure and it would have been easy to have him go that way. It was fortunate that we had Dorian as the mage who had the larger-than-life persona already to make Solas be the quiet one.

Time: 15:21

Was there ever an instance where you were really pushed with giving some indicators to the player that Solas may have some connection to this going through the gameplay? Because you do see a lot statues of Fen’Harel. There’s many instances of where you’re discussing it, you’re traveling through those lands. Where do you walk that line, how do you walk that line, or do you just completely disregard it whatsoever?

The goal we had is we wanted the very careful players, the very sensitive players, who were playing attention and watching every scene with Solas to know that something was up and to want more answers and then go to “OH MAN” as soon as the stinger after the credits rolled. But we wanted most players to just go “Oh, okay, he’s like ‘Fade nerd.’ He’s like ‘hippie guy.’”

The other thing we wanted was everyone on their second playthrough, as soon as they talked to Solas to be like “Oh, man, he’s just saying it. He just flat-out said it right there and I missed it completely the first time!” I think we called it the “inevitable in retrospect”- or the “slap the forehead on the second playthrough” style of writing, where we wanted people to see that the most interesting thing about the trickster god is he’s not actually that great of a liar - He is almost telling you a lot of the time. And, you know, some of the tragedy is it that you never had the chance to actually ask, “Wait -are you Fen’harel?”

Time: 17:13

We talked about leaving breadcrumbs, what that meant. Now the big turn, the big scene at the ending:  How did this come about, were you really involved in that sort of process and are you happy with it?

Oh, I’m absolutely happy with it. It went through several iterations,. Mike was hugely involved. The writing was definitely done by Dave; it was a huge crit path moment. He had me give a look at the Solas voice, I think I looked at it, I don’t think I actually changed a single word in the final one.

We had versions where after the main plot it was actually going to be a full plot where you the player went and were actually present when Solas confronts Mythal. We had a part where we said, “Wow that’s too big, a lot of players are gonna miss that, we’ll make it a DLC.” So it was gonna be a separate DLC where that happened. At one point we said “No, this is too big, we actually - let’s cut it and address it next game.” So it was going to be this thing that we pushed off into some future content.

I am really happy with what we went with, because, I think, you know, for my money, that short, little Marvel-style, after-the-credits stinger is what we needed. We needed something so that everyone who was paying attention and everyone who was really invested could go “oh my god!” And go, “Okay, so, just in case you were wondering, we’re not done, we have more stories to tell, and we are confident enough in what we are doing that we are willing to throw that ball.” That stinger is essentially us throwing a football to future us, trusting that we are going to catch it. Because, you know, at the end, we had that level of confidence. We felt that we had that level of confidence, we felt we made a really good game. Dave led an amazing team of writers, and I’m really touched that he has the confidence to believe that I’ll be able to carry that on for him.

Time: 19:49

When we spoke to Dave, one of the big moments that he mentioned, was when he created kind of a long-term idea for what’s going to happen in the Dragon Age universe. And to hear him say it, he mentioned that what he originally wanted for Dragon Age: Inquisition couldn’t happen - it was far too big - it wouldn’t work. And you guys had talked about  taking that concept, finishing Inquisition somewhere in the middle of that concept arc, and then using at least an influence or something like that to affect the franchise going forward.  Speaking with you now, as someone who has taken up the reins, do you know what I’m talking about? Am I talking crazy? Where do you see it going?

Um…

Reasonably - of what you can say on this.

So here’s the last scene of the next game… (laughs). I think there’s an extent to which no plan really survives contact with the audience when it comes to video games. We look at how fans react, we look at what hit, what rang true with everyone. You know, it’s funny, having people react angrily actually isn’t as bad as having people ignore things sometimes. Having people react angrily  means they were definitely emotionally engaged, so you know you hit something there. Whereas having fans go, “I don’t know, fine, I guess, whatever” and move on means, “Okay, I don’t know if that’s what we want to go back to. We didn’t actually get anything from them there, they didn’t actually remember that later.” So that’s a phase that comes after every game we ship. We look at what hit, what missed, and where we want to go from there.

Now that said, Dave’s future plan is, I think, fantastic, epic, and heartbreaking. Our plan is to use that as our starting point. To look at where we want to go, what we want to do, and it will not be - and I, you know, Dave and I have talked about this - it will not be the story that Dave would tell if he were still here as lead writer. Because it could never be that. We can get into that when we talk about Cole a little bit, but if I tried to do that I would just be doing a bad impersonation of Dave Gaider and no one is ever going to be as good at that as Dave is. My goal going forward is to, as lead, put my own spin on that process, put my own spin on the plots going forward, on the thematic elements, while keeping those same thematic elements that we had. Because, I think, what Dave has set in motion in three games, countless DLCs and expansions, is something that can endure: The idea that no choice is ever really that easy and that the great events always stem from human-understandable motivations.

So, that is where I think where we are going to go, as vaguely as I can say.

Time: 23:30

Speaking of specifically to Solas: His continuation of the story. Adding that little “Marvel moment” at the end - what do you think that did for the crit path and the overall arc of the story that players experienced in Dragon Age: Inquisition. Do you think they would have been more satisfied if there was  a DLC or is that just us gamers complaining because we can’t get everything we want right away?

Well, I think you want to leave people wanting more. “Man I wish you guys had done more” is a better problem to have than “Man I wish you guys had done less.” So, I think, looking at it from inside the studio, we didn’t have the resources to do much more than we did. So it was never going to be the big moment right then anyway. From my perspective, the reason I’m really happy we have it is, like I said, I thought it was a vote of confidence. The team is still the Dragon Age team and it is still the writers and designers who did everything else, who made such wonderful characters and were responsible for such fantastic plots.

Time 25:10

Well, again, looking at that in its completion, it’s good to see that even a character that needed to give you a stinger in your estimation didn’t take away, I guess, from the overall story you were trying to tell.

Well, thank you. Yeah it was obviously the moment we were building toward, but again, the goal was even if we didn’t have that stringer, he was still an interesting enough character that people would have not felt cheated that he was in the party.

Part 3

[alias-b]

Can you talk about your marvel fic? After what you did with stranger things, I bet you killed the mcu for its crimes.😘

Anon!!! You opened a whole bag of sour patch kids here. Settle in. I haven’t gotten a lot of feedback on this project. If I should go back and revamp to my new ao3 with edits. So, I’m not sure if has enough interest for a go head. But, it’s an old Loki/OC fic that’s near and dear to my heart. The first major fic I completed, clocking in at 800K words. Yeap. Longer than Les Mis. Longer than the LOTR series including the hobbit. It’s a beast. But, it’s my beast and I own everything I did in it.  🤣 See below and come shout at me more about this fic bc I adore it too much. Basically, it’s about a woman realizing she’s the Protagonist. With lots of smut & not all with Loki.

Basically, it’s structured a little like a cinematic universe with phases and “prompts/arcs” within the phases that end up building into a growing story. It starts eons before the first Thor movie! Loosely goes into the movies before veering off into his epic mashup of Marvel movies, including The Amazing Spider-man//X-Men//Fantastic Four, with a lot of comic canon events and twists into this monstrosity where I bash hopeful/dramatic themes into your face a million times.

Concretely, I wrote it from about  Nov '13-Oct '17 so well before the Infinity War mess. Posted it Dec ‘17-April ‘18. The only mcu movies I get into are Thor1/2, Avengers, & Winter Soldier. Needless to say a lot of characters appear and some from the mcu don’t even show up or are just mentioned in passing, I rly had to pick and choose with the storylines from the comics I sunk in. At the core, it’s still a Loki/OC if you can believe that lmao to be fair, his dumbass did kick a lot of the events off....

The OC, who I only ever call the Lady outside the fic, is actually unnamed. For all 800K words. She gets nicknames/terms of endearment/an Avengers tag, but it never felt right to name her. And it became a fun game of how her name was being said and who refused to use it//only use nicknames. She’s an Asgardian with Issues. Which is more common than you think. Flawed Gods. Theme.

For millions of years, Asgard is a place of these warrior gods pledged to protect the realms//the lands within Asgard itself and do not much else. I made Asgard the full realm it was supposed to be, not the tiny planet it got reduced to. Each realm is important to the balance of Yggdrasil. One falls, they all do. Being a god is an absolute commonplace and Asgard is wrapped up in old ways that Thor’s generation is trying to break from. Theme. We also get a different dynamic when they journey to earth and are actually treated like gods. Theme.

The Lady is an out of place budding warrior trying to find her footing in the world like everyone else. She’s from a poor village, has a not great home life, and struggling with newfound feelings right off the bat for one of her oldest friends. Prince Jerk Himself. She’s been a longtime companion of the Warriors Three/Sif/Thor/Loki and always felt like she’s behind and playing catch up with them. She’s got mental issues she has to hide bc gods aren’t allowed to be flawed. And we find out very quickly that they are. Theme. I play with a lot of fun coming of age tropes actually in Asgard’s setting lol

Her story is the focus, it’s her growth as a warrior and independent woman just trying to protect her friends. Loki, after years of asking him, agrees to teach her magic bc she expresses an talent/a passion that she hasn’t had for other means of fighting and it’s all downhill from their for them. Her quest for power starts out as a means to protect her friends and prove herself and turns into a full blown insatiable obsession to Save Everyone. Theme.

She and Loki struggle a lot, they’re imperfect people with make a lot of wrong choices. There are periods where their relationship is genuinely unhealthy/toxic with Loki’s fall to villainy and the Lady’s quest for knowledge and power. Lessons come with that and characters grow. They both attract some unsavory villains and struggle with the notion of what freedom really means. What it means to be god and human. What they’re willing to do to protect those they love. Also soooo much found family tropes lol bc I can’t resist. I ignore like....80% of what the MCU did, esp with Odin/Thor/Asgard. I just went all out and wrote a monster.   Anti-Villains, Ultimate Alliances, Heroes, and Redemption Arcs Galore.  

The Lady is...a special OC. The fic centers on her story, a lot of hellish things happen to her and she just keeps fighting through it all. It’s also a first person fic just due to not naming her lol She’s a plus size, mentally ill, WOC. And I’m not shy about this, her backstory and trauma was all accurately taken from my own like so their are some major triggers in early chapters of abuse, s*lf h*rm, past csa mentions, etc.

I hope I get more asks about this fic, I’d love to take on the project of reposting it with fresher eyes. I think I could do a lot with my style now and the clunky bits I could improve on! Let me know what you guys think! Thank you, Anon, sorry I rambled so much XOXOXO. You’re a gem!!!

[unofferable-fic]

This Loki rumour really got my goat, and here’s why

Hot take incoming, but I’ve been inactive over the holidays and have pent up emotions, so here we go...

This idea that not wanting any other actor to play Loki means that you are a “Tom Hiddleston fan” instead of a “Loki fan” is the biggest load of fandom-dividing bullshit I’ve seen since Ragnarok, and anyone pushing that opinion needs to get over themselves and listen to the otherside’s feelings for one goddamn minute before I lose my mind.

LOOK, here’s the thing...

For a lot of the Loki fandom, Tom is the reason why we fell in love with the character in the first place. He made him relatable, he made him sympathetic, he refused to play him as “that crazy dude” and gave him real motivations and feelings and by Jesus give the man some credit! I guarantee that if someone else had taken that role, Loki wouldn’t be where he is today. I can’t speak for everyone, but the reason why I don’t want someone else playing Loki is because I don’t trust them. They simply won’t do as good of a job as Tom, and the idea of watching someone else destroy a character I relate to is an awful thought.

Let’s be real, the Loki fandom gets a tough rep the odd time, and I don’t just mean from Marvel screwing us over after The Dark World. We get written off as “crazy fangirls” who only wanna bang Tom Hiddleston and we don’t give a shit about character development or logic or good writing but HEY, what do I know? I’m just a crazy Loki fangirl and I’m a dipshit too apparently...

I don’t mind the odd flashback with a younger Loki, as long as it accurately portrays the harsh realities of Loki’s upbringing and not some “I became a snake to stab Thor” bullshit.

I don’t mind Kid Loki.

I don’t mind Lady Loki.

I don’t mind an insight into kid Loki and Frigga’s relationship.

I don’t mind callbacks to Loki struggling with his Jotun identity.

But HERE’S THE THING...

If you want to complete Loki’s arc properly, it cannot end with that dumb ass IW “death”. A rushed speech in which he calls himself Odinson is just so... meh. It’s lazy. I know I am mirroring the words of many others when I say I want to see Loki coming to terms with his heritage properly.

I want to see Loki learning to love himself and realising he isn’t reliant on Thor.

I want him to realise he is more than what Thor and Odin said he was.

I want him to realise that even though his dad was an ass, he is more than Odin’s poor decisions.

I want him to realise why we love him so much.

Goddammit I just want one final farewell for a character I relate to and we deserve it after all the crap we’ve endured, between shitty and lazy writing to mischaracterisation.

By all means, I think Tom should explore more roles, and I can’t wait to see him in Betrayal. But doing a final tv series and then calling it quits on Loki would be the fucking bomb and it’s what this fandom and Tom deserves. Doing a Loki series wouldn’t ruin his reputation — it would allow him to close the door on one of his favourite roles the right way. It doesn’t mean he will never do anything else other than Loki. But, it would make up for the Ragnarok and IW epidemics.

Give Loki the send off he deserves, you idiots, I don’t have time for this crap anymore.

If Tom doesn’t reprise his role, I will politely give this series a miss and correct all this stupidity with fan fiction.

K tnx bai

[scifrey]

My Very Spoilery Endgame Review - What I Liked, What Annoyed Me, and Two Questions I Am Left With

I was very satisfied and enjoyed it very much. The theater burst into applause in several instances and it was great to celebrate the end of an era with fellow fans.

Now for the spoilery critiques and praise.

My favorite moments were:

Thor reconciling his self-image and self-worth with his mother

“I’m still worthy.”

Loki escaping and (hopefully) living in at least one timeline - because if Steve went back to “trim the branches” then this means he returned the Tesseract to 1970. Which means the branch where Loki snagged the Tesseract and was not imprisoned on Asgard may have endured*. 

Ken Jeong’s cameo.

Stan Lee’s cameo.

Banner coming to terms with who and what he is and living comfortably with the Hulk.

Basically everyone really leaning into the self-love  and self-value by the end of the film.

“That is America’s Ass”.

“I could do this all day.” “Yeah, I know.”

“How can I? You’re taking all the stupid with you.”

“Ha! I knew it!”

“I am Iron Man.”

Scott finding Cassie alive.

Wong’s exasperated reply to Strange’s “Is that everyone?”

Nebula’s redemption. This is a princess (as Squidward calls Thanos “sire”) who saves her own damn self.

How the thing that gave the game away to Thanos was actually really clever and well executed; this wasn’t a “heroes are just stupid this one time” (like how Quill screwed the pooch in Infinity War when they had the damn glove). It was something that I genuinely hadn’t thought of, and I assume no one, not even Nebula, would have thought of. It worked. And it worked well.

All the ladies supporting Carol in the final battle - which was awesome but also felt a bit like the moment was added only so the Russos could check it off a “don’t piss off the feminists” list.

How the final battle set it up well for the next phase - I liked how the Glove Relay was from an OG Avenger (Hawkeye) to the new Avengers - Black Panther, Spider-man, and Captain Marvel.

“I love you 3000″.

Falcon!Cap - finally! Yay!

The sound of the armor that started it all being forged as the endcap of the credits.

However.

I wish Bucky and Steve had also had a meaningful moment at the end, like Steve and Sam, something that made it clear that even though Steve was older now, he was no less Bucky’s best pal. 

I'm very, very annoyed that they Fridged Natasha. I mean, I get it. Someone had to die. And we all knew Hawkeye was going to go back to his family, so it wouldn’t be him. And I do love how they did the death, how Nat and Clint fought with one another to the be the one to make the sacrifice. And her death would have been especially cheap if Bruce had just Snapped her Back. I get it.

And if there wasn’t a long history of Fridging female character to ensure the male ones have enough Man-Pain to have a character arc and impetus to be a hero, then you know what? This would have been a really moving sacrifice. It would have really worked.

But there is. And in light of that, it’s left me... itchy. Uncomfortable. Because in the context of the film alone it was a great death. But in the context of the history of comic book narratives, it sucked.

Also, what does this mean for the Black Widow movie? Will it actually be a prequel? Will it be Budapest? And if it is Budapest, will they use the same actors, or cast new, younger ones?

I also don't understand the narrative reason why they had to make so many fat jokes around Thor.

I mean, yeah, it makes sense he was depressed and stopped taking care of his heath, and self-medicated with booze and food. This was a strong and meaningful narrative and I really liked that he was given the opportunity to mourn, to question his purpose, to become more than just muscles and a hammer in terms of character construction. That he could grieve and struggle, and be filled with crippling regret that kept him indoors and hiding, and filled self-loathing.

 As a character choice it made sense. And I liked that he was still a powerful warrior while chubby, and that he didn’t magically become slim again when he suited up. It was wonderful to see him be no less powerful, dangerous, dedicated, and no less kick ass while sporting a keg instead of a sixpack. 

But they leaned awfully hard on that “fat joke” button and by the time Rhodey said “Cheez Whiz?” I was over it. Its got tedious and frankly a bit insulting.

Teasing someone for suffering because he lost literally everyone he loved is not cool. The jokes fell flat, for good reason. They were cruel.

And when the Russos announced that they had included the MCU's first openly gay character I was hoping that it would be a main character, not some rando dude in a talk therapy meeting. I wanted Bucky and Sam to confess feelings, or Bucky to Steve even if Steve couldn’t return them, or Valkyrie to at least have a wife in New Asgard, or something.

But TBH it didn't surprise me that they made it some nameless dude in group support. Like J.K. Rowling, the Russos are happy to queerbait but too cowardly to commit, and they always have been. I’d be annoyed but it’s not worth the energy. 

At least when the guy mentioned his boyfriend it was a “no big deal” mention, and nobody made a “are you cool with this, Cap?” thing to really point out that ooooo, this dude is queer.

But those are my only gripes. The rest of it was thoroughly enjoyable and satisfying.

Especially all the little call backs. The "I am Iron Man" and “I could do this all day” stuff - it felt like little gifts to the fandom.

However, I have two questions.

1) When people were Snapped Back, were they Snapped to their previous exact geographical location? Because if so, what about people who had been in transit? Did people who were Snapped Away while in a plane just... appear mid-sky and plummet to their deaths? Were people on spaceships Snapped Back into the void of cold space? We saw in Infinity War that helicopters crashed into city streets - the pilot, that means, was Snapped Away. When that pilot came back, where did he come back? Did Bruce think to Snap them all into safe places? (I mean, I assume the Stones accounted for Spacial Drift and the location of planets in orbit... maybe it accounted for people who would have Snapped Back into deadly situations?)

2) I do love that Steve and Peggy got their life together At that point Pegs would have been like... at least 10 years older than Steve? Maybe 15? What would her neighbors think of Sugar Momma Peggy Carter and her Very Much Younger (Looking) Husband?

Did she introduce him to anyone? Did they have neighborhood BBQs? At that point everyone would have known who Captain America/Steve Rogers was so did no one recognize him? What did they say? (Did we get Beardy Steve back???) They had kids, canonically, so was Steve able to attend their T-BAll games and school plays?

One assumes that Sugar Baby Steve would have been the House Husband, because Pegs was running Shield and Steve was out of the game. He’d never be able to show his face at SHIELD because Howard would recognize him, and so would Arnim Zola, so HYDRA would have known that Captain America survived and I imagine they would have given anything to get him into the Chair.

It makes me think that Sugar Baby House Husband Steve would have been very isolated and possibly lonely. Maybe he had a few neighbor friends, but can you image how torturous it must have been to live so privately? To know that Bucky was out there suffering and being tortured and brainwashed and that he couldn’t do anything about it? He couldn’t go save his best pal?

That Peggy could never bring him to the SHIELD Christmas party, to visit her new baby godson Anthony, never attend anything with him.

And it makes me think Steve had to vanish from her life right when his earlier self entered it so like... as soon as she started getting sick enough with Alzheimer's he had to leave. 

Because that’s when younger Steve came into her life, and started visiting her in the nursing home. 

But he had to abandon her when she needed him most, and that is very tragic. How did Steve reconcile that with himself? Especially with returning to a future where she was dead and his friends were alive and he didn’t need to be the Secret Sugar Baby House Husband any more?

All in all, it was very enjoyable and I will watch it again. 

And I look forward to the FanFic.

* This means that Loki in that branch also likely did not participate in the battle against the Dark Elves. His character growth in that moment was likely delayed, but I believe he ultimately would have processed his extreme confusion, self-loathing, and hatred of his betrayal by his “family” Thor enough to join forces with him against the destruction of the universe when it mattered. Perhaps having the extra time to do so might have even served him better.  I don’t know if this means Odin chose to die and Hela was released, thus triggering the destruction of Asgard. I don’t know what this would have meant for Ragnarock - possibly with Odin as the King when he died the defenses would have been better (though I argue the culture and peace of Asgard thrived under Loki, especially with his dismantling of the Empire and the valuing of the Arts) and they would have saved Asgard or at least not lost so many.

And if Asgard had not survived, perhaps in this version something different may have happened, and Loki wouldn’t on the survivor ship. Perhaps he was on a different ship. Perhaps he wasn’t present for the battle at all and in a completely different part of the universe.

If he was elsewhere this means 

a) The Asgardian survivors would have lived because Thanos wouldn’t have targeted the ship, and Thor would have been less self-loathing. 

b) When Thanos found Loki with the Tesseract in this branch, it’s likely Loki was able to ingratiate himself to Thanos and gave the Stone to him without Thor there to tip his hand toward an immediate betrayal murder attempt. I subscribe to the theory that Loki was just as mind-controlled during The Avengers and the Battle of New York as Barton (though I wouldn’t call Loki totally innocent in everything) and that he had been suffering from extreme mental health issues following his unsuccessful attempted suicide. In this case, he would be willing to play the long game to get his revenge on his abuser Thanos. Then, later, hopefully, he joins Thor’s side to save the universe against Thanos (as he did against the Dark Elves)- betraying Thanos and perhaps stopping the Snap before it happened in that timeline. Or if not stopping the Snap, perhaps being a part of the new Avengers if he survived it, or joining in the final battle if he was Snapped Away.

Anyway - I have lots of Loki Thoughts. Feel free to adopt any Plot Bunnies this may have generated in reading this. 

[kitcat992]

Some honest responses from other MCU fans regarding Endgame

Because I know I’ve been one hell of a negative Nancy the past 24 hours, but wanted to show that my raw distaste for this film doesn’t go unshared.

particledamage: This entire thing sucks. I’m bitter.

SelenitaLunar: Worst ending ever. God can't believe this is the real deal. As a Tony fan they give us everything: Pepperony married and iron baby and Rescue only to kill him in the end and stab our hearts and tarnish all our memories of the MCU and this 11 years? Sure they are gonna subvert expectations, hope they enjoy it fully. As I'm not enjoying Marvel ever again. Shame on them. The Russos can go to hell, honestly.

greengirlrunning: They did Thor and Loki so dirty. The Loki thing is so obviously forced so that it ties in to his TV series, but it really undermines his entire arc in the MCU films. I'm pissed. Don't even get me started on Thor. It's perfectly believable that he would be depressed and feel hopeless, but to turn him into a joke and make him basically useless while Tony and Cap get epic (if problematic) endings? Bullshit.

_Mavericks: I’m sorry to say this, but the plot is pure shit. It’s not the case of getting disappointed because we wanted more. It is simply bad as it is. Sad ending.

sawinadream: Honestly Steve not preventing shit/suddenly acting selfishly AFTER being deemed worthy by Mjolnir/ignoring Bucky in Hydra captivity and SHIELD being infiltrated/the timeline somehow not registering these particular alterations IF he did change anything for the better.... OOC and lazy writing at its finest. Also wtf @ Sharon Carter now? Ew

priscillia28: It sounds like a bad fan theory

delta_charlie_2511: So the leaks we were sure were wrong turned out to be right. What they did to Cap is disappointing. It would have made more sense have him sacrifice himself and then wake up in a dream like sequence with Peggy where she is waiting for him to take her to the dance

valhallaorange: I'm upset with many of the main avengers stories, but I'm going to focus on Cap for this one.

It seems completely out of character for him to go back and marry Peggy, knowing in the future she HAD a husband and children, and a well-iived life of accomplishment. To me, it was a focal point of Cap's character to be unselfish and accepting of his new place in time. That included his love for Peggy and respecting that she lived her life fully.

It seems so wrong that he would go back in time to be with her and erase her family (children, possible grandchildren) in the process.

I'm so disappointed. I feel they've done his character so wrong and the only good movie of him was CA:WS. :(

Now that paired with the characterizations and situations of Tony, Thor, and Nat especially make me sad and unhappy.

ALSO, did the Russos just decide to say "Eh, screw it." With Sharon Carter? (Not a fan of her in the movies, but she also deserved way batter.)

valhallaorange: Agreed. A dance and then back to the future would've been acceptable and given more emotion to the pain and letting go Steve is known to experience. Also, Peggy deserves her own storyline and fully lived life without it being erased and her being reduced to only Cap's love interest.

captainamericasgf: This is literally my worst nightmare holy shit

RyuKenBlanka: Iron Man dying and Cap going back to the 1940's to be with Peggy is just lazy writing and closure for the characters and is the reality of Hollywood and not being able to have actors play roles forever. Both in reality should retire and take more advisory roles.

Suedeash: Also Cap's whole nightmare thing in Age of Ultron was dealing with the fact that he can't go back to Peggy, and yet here he just goes back? And knowing all of the horrible shit that happens in the future like 9/11, the Hydra infestation of SHIELD and all that he just sits back and does nothing? This sounds like a character assassination tbh, it would make far more sense for Tony to live with his family and Cap to have the heroic death as a way to bring his whole character arc to a fitting end.

Jedi_Mom: I think people began to think that it was impossible for marvel and Russos to let us down... we learned that they were capable of mistakes... the hard way.

DXGabriel: So.... when thor was becoming cool they just fuck his character? reaaly?

dracogladio1741: This is so convoluted. The ending is weird to say the least. Jeez.

inkwell84: Critics liked it. Audiences said what the eff.

itellteacherstories: This is what I get for overhyping myself: Disappointment.

lovestarkiller: Tony is gone like that?.... And Cap ending is just so...

FreeTanner17: One of the biggest disappointments is they kill off Natasha, don’t even give her a funeral and basically never mention her name again

Hawkguyism: Honestly, I'm severely disappointed

Cap's ending is a disservice to the character and his arc, Thor's ending makes no sense, he literally abandons all his people, Tony's ending is way too cruel, they could just say he went away and stuff like that, would be much better considering all the character's been through, Hulk and Nat are meeeehhhh, and seriously, how many fucking times is Hawkeye gonna retire? And like,we know he's gonna come back in the Disney+ show to train Kate and stuff

Overall, the plot seems too simple and the endings are pretty bad. Of course, in terms of action and entertainment, this movie will be a blast, but when it comes to story and narrative, it's a letdown. Especially considering we waited 11 years for this.

dumbwatercba: I feel like the writers went online and picked the worse theories out there and made a film out of it. Non of this seems right. The reviews were so positive. This seems like a steaming pile of shit. Thanus seems like the only thing missing from this.

msg53: I was hoping Endgame would be a good stopping point anyway. I would have preferred a satisfying ending, but a shitshow that turns me off of the entire genre works too, I guess.

IrishGrouch24: Man I am pissed the F off right now.

raven_rising:...Thanks Marvel, I kind of hate it.

scruk: I have no idea how they managed to fuck up this badly. No idea. It's like a bad fanfiction written by someone who's only watched Infinity War

CactusJackkkk: I feel like I just wasted 11 years of my life watching these movies with no payoff in the end.

eutears:This absolutely makes no sense. I cannot believe how the Russos thought this might be a good finale. Most of the plot crumbles if you put even a little bit of thought into it.

InlineSurfer: Keving Faige and MCU thinks,  that fans will take whatever they give us, but i cant, this so lazy and stupid script.

Griever11422: Notmycap. Notmytony

[lokiondisneyplus]

With the popularity of the first season of the Disney+ series "Loki," the series' showrunner and head writer Michael Waldron has become the latest star in the Marvel Studios' creative pool of talent.

Along with successfully delivering a layered arc to the God of Mischief over a six-episode season (with another on the horizon), he's also the screenwriter behind the upcoming MCU release "Doctor Strange in the Multiverse of Madness" (and will write the pending "Star Wars" movie being produced by Marvel Studios head Kevin Feige).

Waldron took a break from his busy schedule to look back on the first season of "Loki" with Insider and answer some of our most burning questions — like his thoughts on "selfcest," the challenges of fulfilling fan expectations, and how close we were to getting Loki sex.

Waldron says "many" season-one endings were considered.

The plan to do a second season of "Loki" didn't exist until far into the production of the first season. That led to some changes in the season one finale, Waldron said.

But he added that showing the evolution of the Loki character was always their guiding light.

"The show was always constructed to be a story on its own," he said. "The story of Loki starting out as a villain and going through this adventure that turns him into a hero in his own way, doing the right thing, but losing anyway — that was always the complete story we wanted to tell."

But the details within that story — the characters around Loki in his journey and who he would encounter at the end of it — were always changing, Waldron said.

To set up a tease for what would take place in season two (and let's face it, for a lot of the MCU properties going forward), Waldron and his team turned to introducing Marvel villain Kang the Conqueror (Jonathan Majors) in the finale.

Loki (Tom Hiddleston) and Sylvie's (Sophia Di Martino) encounter with Kang (aka, He Who Remains) results in Sylvie killing him and the "sacred timeline" going into shambles. It also presumably birthed more evil Kang variants.

Now Loki is back in the TVA but in a different timeline as Mobius (Owen Wilson) doesn't know who Loki is anymore.

It's a cliffhanger ending that has had fans of the show buzzing. But Waldron admitted it was one of many.

"There's many permutations of endings that exists over the course of the whole thing," he said. "But I'm not going to tell anybody about those." The "Loki" love-story arch has led to the term "selfcest" becoming popular; Waldron said he was just tying to tell an interesting story.

The internet went nuts when it became evident that Loki was falling for his variant, Sylvie. And with that, the term, "selfcest," aka having a relationship with an alternate version of yourself, entered the popular lexicon.

Waldron had a good laugh about the whole thing when Insider brought it up.

"Were we sitting in the writers' room saying we hope people are talking about selfcest? No. We weren't," Waldron said with a chuckle. "We told a story about a character falling for a variant of themselves. It's an interesting atypical type of story, and we knew that."

Waldron said he knew that, because of the passion people have for the Loki character, he was not going to satisfy everyone with what happens in the show.

That included inadvertently touching on the selfcest debate."As creators we have to pick a path and tell a story," he said. Waldron explained how close we were to seeing Loki have sex.

"I guess I'll set the record straight on that," Waldron said when asked about the reveal in Disney+'s behind-the-scenes special, "Assembled: The Making of Loki," that showed a writers' room whiteboard outline revealing they wanted to show Loki have sex, including with aliens.

"That was actually a breakdown, kind of a story circle breakdown for episode one," Waldron said.

One of the ideas they had was Loki would take the Infinity Stones from the TVA in the first episode and go out into the world and "make all his dreams come true," as Waldron put it.

"We were exploring if Loki escaped from the TVA in episode one with a handful of Infinity Stones would it have been compelling to watch him get out into the world and wield an Infinity gauntlet?" Waldron said.

"But we ultimately realized that it's kind of empty because he knows that the TVA exists and that's the greatest power in the universe."

So, although Loki sex was "briefly an idea," Waldron said, it was scrapped.

Instead, they went with the scene of Loki finding the stones at the TVA thrown to the side, and learning they are as worthless as a paperweight.

"We were able to execute that in a single shot just with Tom Hiddleston being an incredible actor," he said. Waldron is not scared of season two falling into the trap of fan service.

Though Waldron would not confirm to Insider that he will be involved with the show's second season, he did say that, despite the popularity of the show and the passion by its fans, it will not go out of its way to fulfill the wants of loyal viewers.

"Part of any creative team's job is trusting their own instincts, especially working in big IP projects like this," Waldron said. "That's what you have to do. You have to understand the parts of the expectations that are delicious and worth biting into and the parts where you're better off creating something totally new."

He continued: "Our philosophy on this was it's a time travel show about Loki, so people expected Loki influencing historical events — he's going to ride with Paul Revere. How can we turn that on its head as much as possible?"

[illwynd]

Thoughts about Odin's arc in the MCU

Oh man. Oh, odin, odin. One-eye, old grimnir, the gallows god with the mead of poetry, spear-master and glad of war, friend of wolves and ravens… i gotta admit, my first thought reading this was “what arc” because, in mcu though not quite as much as in the comics, odin is basically always written in terms of what the story needs for thor and for loki, so any inconsistency in their characterization is magnified in odin. And if you manage to piece together a coherent narrative arc for him in thor 1 and tdw, then ragnarok comes along and fucks that right up.

And, i mean, there was a coherent narrative to be pieced together in thor 1 and tdw, mostly. They were both very much the story of the sons’ relationship with odin, and the trajectories of those two stories for thor and for loki are very different, and the fact that they reflect two very different versions of odin is a cool thing about it. Because marvel odin is not mythology odin, but there are a few fine threads of similarity. A few notes that make it through the noise. Odin shouldn’t be completely straightforward. He’s supposed to be a little uncomfortable to think about because you’re never quite sure if his methods for achieving good ends are actually kinda terrible or if you’re just not seeing the whole picture the way he does. And at the same time he’s supposed to be flawed and fallible and doing his best in an unwinnable battle but making completely undeniable mistakes because he thinks he knows better. I feel like, though there is inconsistency in the details, the totality of thor 1 and tdw get that general gist pretty well, particularly in how we see him through the lens of different characters along the way.

(it’s actually… i mean, what a fruitful decision to have a character of that sort and have him as the father of two very different sons. What a way to be able to tell stories about some completely different conflicts in that paternal relationship!)

I think where ragnarok really fucked up with odin is that it didn’t actually engage with that tension or even acknowledge it, so he doesn’t have an arc at all. He’s either a symbol of asgard’s evil imperialist past or a force ghost guiding thor to greatness, and it does nothing with the fact that those were the same person; these ideas don’t ever interact. Either way, he doesn’t get to be a real character with a real arc. And all of the family stuff that had been stirred up in his arc over the previous movies gets unceremoniously dumped over the side as well and never gets dealt with. So it flattens all their stories and is just really disappointing all around.

Anyone who knows how i feel about odin will be shocked at this, but: odin deserved better, tbqh

[ryanmeft]

What Not To Do in Avengers: Endgame

There’s a lot of theories floating around about what might happen in Avengers: Endgame, the just trailer-ized sequel/part II thingy to Avengers: Infinity War, and the end of the line one way or another for a lot of MCU characters. Some of these theories are wishful thinking and some are a little out there, but few are talking about the biggest issue concerning this movie: it would be very, very easy to ruin it. The hype is huge at this point, and Marvel and the Russo brothers need to deliver a movie that feels like it has impact, even if it IS all grown adults in tights punching other grown adults in tights.

To wit, here’s what needs to NOT happen in Avengers: Endgame. Don’t... Return the “really” dead characters to life

At the end of Avengers: Infinity War, Thanos managed to accomplish his most cherished goal: figuring out which insurance provider really does offer the best choices for himself and his family. He was so happy about this that he was all eureka and snapped his fingers, and half the population of the universe died. This included most of the heroes in the MCU. A few people, however, died without being subjected to The Decimation (that’s what Marvel’s calling it, a fact we know because apparently two or three people actually read tie-in novels). Of those, Idris Elba’s Heimdall will certainly not be back; he’s become a big star since he took the role, and a scepter through the chest was his ticket out of a bit part he’s outgrown. Vision will probably return in some capacity; the planned Scarlet Witch mini-series would be kind of bland without him as her partner, and his death came near the end of the movie, anyway.

Loki and Gamora had a bit more dramatic exit. Loki was choked to death slowly in front of his brother Thor in a surprisingly gruesome scene, having just made a brave-but-poorly-thought-out attempt to assassinate Thanos. He’s got a mini-series coming, too, but it really needs to be set in the past: his death was the perfect ending for his popular character, who always made the cold and calculating decision but ultimately died due to an act of emotional anger for his people and brother. Tom Hiddleston’s been seen on set, either because Marvel is faking us out or because a younger version of him is seen via time travel, but to undo his perfect demise would irreversibly cheapen his character arc. A lot of people expected Loki to eat dirt in Infinity War, as he’d been taken about as far in his story as he could be. Gamora was another matter; pretty much nobody expected the death of the second-in-command of the Guardians of the Galaxy (she’s really the boss, of course, but it’s better to let a guy who calls himself Star-Lord have his fantasy). Even as she fell, we were all expecting a last-minute rescue. That it didn’t come shocked audiences, and should be left that way, especially considering her presence factored into the surprisingly emotional finale of IW.

Get too lazy with the time travel stuff…

Sure, the idea that the remaining Avengers will pull a McFly and go back in time to reverse the Decisnappation COULD just be what Marvel and the Russo bros want you to think is happening…but it seems likely it’s a factor. There’s no realistic way to fix what Thanos did, and time travel is the least bonkers unrealistic way, at least by movie logic. Now, pretty much everyone wants a cameo from Doc Brown. Right? No? That’s just me? But you could make a joke with Thor and the clock tower and the lightn…ok, moving on.

Maybe Chris Lloyd popping in is unlikely, but what is indisputable is time travel could really wreck the already sort-of-thin idea that we should care what becomes of these characters on a long-term basis. If Marvel isn’t kind of careful with the rules they set up, what’s to stop the characters from just bobbing around in time and undoing any serious failures? The extent to which the Avengers can toss time’s salad should be controlled within the narrative, so that they can’t just freely re-write the script.

…but don’t spend a ton of time on it, either

The time travel aspects should be both limited so as not to royally screw with the sense any of this matters, and not overly complicated. This will be the last appearance for Iron Man, Cap and probably Thor, Hulk and Robin Hood. While we don’t want their last bows to take a wheat thresher to the continuity, we also don’t want to get mired down in psuedo-science.

Give us a lame explanation for why Hulk is absent

I think it’s fair to say that Marvel has played incredibly loose in the way Bruce Banner’s relationship with his big green inner metaphor works. In Avengers he switched from the equivalent of a premature orgasm to total control when it was convenient to the plot, and “because the script says so” has pretty much dictated when Banner is and isn’t at the wheel ever since. I actually see this as one of the few really lazy weak spots in their characters: Hulk at his best has always been a metaphor for the monster inside, but the MCU has dropped the ball on that one in favor of more rah-rah moments.

In IW, you may recall the Hulk was turned into the equivalent of a stubborn turd, refusing to come out no matter how much Banner pushed. I speculated that it may be due to Hulk’s animal instincts telling him something about the situation Banner’s more controlled mind doesn’t know…but either way, there needs to be an explanation in Endgame, and it needs to be better than “because we said so”. There’s no indication of any more solo Hulk films or series, so this might be the last we see of the Jolly Green Giant. If Marvel were ever going to make his character halfway consistent, now’s the time.

Spend too much effort on the romances

By far, the most consistent example of “We don’t know where the hell we’re going with this” in the MCU has involved characters gettin’ it on. Thor’s Jane Foster got unceremoniously dropped because she was a very meh character and the person playing her realized she was Natalie Portman and had better things to do, while Valkyrie showed promise as a tougher lover for the Thunder God only to be written out of the movies off-screen. Hulk and Black Widow made enough sense but was poorly set up, came out of nowhere, and nothing was made of it in IW. Cap’s thing with Peggy Carter’s niece was forced and a little weird. And if you can tell me the name of Black Panther’s woman, you officially know more about this stuff than a guy who writes about it on the regular; she was so barely there they didn’t even bother to mention her in Avengers, and no one cared. Only Tony Stark and Pepper Potts have had anything like a relationship that makes sense, and they nearly dismissed that with an off-screen explanation, as well.

The next iteration of the MCU, with younger, fresher characters, should put more effort into developing lasting character relationships that aren’t bromances, and in fact could stand to give the female supporting characters a lot more development, in general. For now, though, they should write off the romantic histories of most of the old guard as a loss. I doubt anyone will notice.

Overemphasize Ant-Man and Captain Marvel

It’s always been clear, and the post-credits scene made it more so, that Captain Marvel, who will make her debut in her own movie in March, will be important in whatever plan is in place to stop Thanos. And the trailer for Endgame lets us know Ant-Man, or at least his access to the Deus Ex Machina that is the Quantum Realm, will also be vital. And both should be vital---to get the other heroes where they need to be. Although I like Anty Boy, he’s not the biggest name in Marvel, and Captain Brie Marvel Larsen is likely just starting her arc in the universe; there will be plenty of time for her later. This movie needs to focus on the last stands and swan songs of characters who have been with us almost since the beginning.

De-emphasize Hawkeye

If you’ve watched the trailer, by now you know Jeremy Renner’s Robin Hood (I think I made that joke already), who was totally absent from Infinity War, is back with a new, darker costume and what looks like a serious hate boner. In fact, he seems to have straight-up murdered the holy crap what is this out of a whole bunch of Yakuza goons in the middle of the street, which judging by Black Widow’s expression is either terrifying or shockingly arousing. For many, including myself, it was the most interesting reveal in the trailer, and the conclusion was immediately reached that his wife and children must have been Thanos-snapped. What else could cause the normally unflappable special forces dude to go goth and start shooting down people like dogs? He’s always been the most under-appreciated Avenger (check him in the first movie; he’s way more bad-ass than the others despite having no super-powers). This one needs to give him a proper send-off.

Avoid the consequences

Throughout this column, I’ve been emphasizing that the classic Avengers need to have a proper exit from the franchise. The most important aspect of that is to make sure that exit involves a heavy toll. They aren’t fighting for this city or even that planet, but for the whole of existence. Although most-if-not-all of their snapped friends will be returning, they need to pay the price to get that done; otherwise, this whole Thanos thing is basically a cartoon with no permanent consequences. This is completely essential to doing this movie right. Don’t chicken out, guys.

[nyangibun]

Do you think we'll see Thorkyrie in Endgame? I want Thor to realise he has feelings for Val but I've seen negative posts about the Russos and I don't want a huge let down. I hope since its Thor's last "movie", they'll complete his arc with her.

Hmmmm I actually don’t think we’ll get much of anything of Thorkyrie in the last Avengers but I think there will be a Thor 4 with Taika Waititi directing again. Thor Ragnarok did soooo well and it took everything we knew about Thor in 1 and 2 and turned it upside down on its head. There’s so much more potential for more adventures. Granted if Thor doesn’t die (which I don’t think he will) in the last Avengers and the cast is willing (which I think they will be because they all had so much fun with Taika at the helm), there will be a Thor 4. 

I don’t know what the negative consensus about the Russos is but personally, I think the way they handled Thor’s arc in Avengers: Infinity War was utter crap. It just… felt so eurgh after coming from Taika’s Thor Ragnarok. It wasn’t a regression but it wasn’t a progression either. 

Anyway, I’m not confident we’ll see anything that well done about Thor’s arc in Avengers. I feel like the character development will be focused on Steve and Tony. Probably some of Natasha, Clint, Wanda, Vision, Bucky and Sam. Maybe Bruce. 

The other franchises: Thor, Black Panther, Guardians, Spiderman, and Captain Marvel won’t be as center stage in terms of character development because I believe their stories will still continue so there’s no need to develop them that much in this film. They will have ample screentime but just a not a lot of meaty plot for them. 

Although tbf, I’m not sure about Thor and Guardians. Their part in Avengers Infinity War was big so I think they will have more plot but I don’t think their standalones are done yet. 

However, I think that will be the end of the others’ part in the Marvel franchise – not that I think they’ll die but rather that there won’t be any more standalone films from these characters (although didn’t they say we’d get a Black Widow film? Like a prequel? Honestly, I couldn’t care less about ScarJo as Black Widow anymore lol. Gimme a new female heroine pls). And I say maybe Bruce because he won’t have his own standalone film but he will be apart of Thor’s story. The chemistry between Thor, Bruce, The Hulk, Valkyrie, and Loki was so good. I’d imagine they’d bring him back if there’s another Thor movie. 

BUUUUUUUUT

I also have no idea. This is just guesswork. And I haven’t been keeping up with rumours and announcements so maybe Thor is confirmed donezo. I haven’t heard anything though and I think Taika wanted to do another. I hope so because Valkyrie deserves more than what will probably measly screentime in Avengers and whether it’s romantic or not, Thor’s and her partnership is so much fun and I’d love to see it develop more.