#if i hear one more person say ‘your website didnt say that’ YES IT DID | Explore Tumblr posts and blogs

bangtansboyf · 3 years ago

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━━━ 'CHAPTER ONE' [STRICTLY BUSINESS]

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SUMMARY ➢ seems like you had no idea that when you put an ad onto a website for omegas titled, 'young omega needs help to make money' you would have alot more replies then you expected. good thing you have your wise alpha friend to help you weed out the weird responses.

AU ➢ omegaverse au! ceo au!

PAIRING ➢ ot7 x m!reader, rich!beta!seokjin, rich!alpha!namjoon, rich!beta!yoongi, rich!alpha!hoseok, rich!alpha!jimin, rich!beta!taehyung, rich!alpha!jungkook, assistant!omega!male!reader

CONTENT WARNING ➢ in this chapter there will be; brief mention of horny people online hitting up m/c, m/c stutters a bit when hes nervous, some mean alphas scare m/c, michan goes protective mode, past events involving loneliness, m/c raises his voice a bit. [pls lmk if i missed any!]

MOODBOARD | MASTERLIST

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times have changed in the last four years. the prior president had stepped down from his position in office and a newer and younger vice president took his place. the new president also happened to be a male omega, the first of many. ever since he became president, the laws that were constricting omegas and betas for centuries were finally being revoked one by one. which brought joy to many throughout the country, and yes, some annoyance to very few.

however, that did not stop the new omega president to help his own kind in having basic civil rights, such as freedom of speech, freedom to walk in any part of the country without a mate, freedom to not be mated by 20, freedom to apply to any job, etc. for many years, omegas were treated as though they practically were pets. being seen as incompetent and irresponsible, many did not want to hire them let alone befriend them.

how you ended up with a female alpha for a friend, the world will never know. being both seen as a 'rare mutation' maybe the world had a plan for you both afterall. which leads to the reason you came knocking on her apartment door at 10:00 am, to find a job.

the door opened slightly as a squinting michan peaked through, you could hear a small grumble in her chest as she opened it wider and ushered for you to come in. "hurry up," she growled. you had come to learn there was different types of growlings. they didnt all signify harm, michan taught you that. "im sorry, you told me to come at 10." you slipped off your sneakers and placed your scarf on her clothing rack by the door as she locked it. "who actually comes at the time someone tells them to?" her large eyes narrowed down onto you. you two have always been complete opposites ever since you met in middle school. she was always terrible at academics while you aced them, she was a constant flirt while you were very shy, she kept her circle very small while you were open to new friends (however they never did come).

she was one of the only people in your life that geniunely enjoyed you for yourself and not for your status, your mind or your body. no matter how contrasting you two were, your personalities couldnt have gotten along better. platonic soulmates is what you called it when you searched it up online-- to which michan gagged at.

"i-i thought that was the point?" you responded with a small head tilt, confusion had accompanied the comment from your lips. michan could only sigh before she lifted her hand and plopped it onto your head and proceeded to ruffle your hair. your whines of protest were answered as she headed to the kitchen, leaving you to fix the problem she fabricated. "lemme make my coffee then we can talk." it was safe to say that michan was addicted to any type of coffee. no matter how many times you lectured her to take care of her insides more and drink healthier alternatives. she would just flex her broad arm muscles to you and comment along the lines of 'these bad boys need coffee in order to scope out the betas'.

hence, you agreed to never say anything negative about coffee in front of her. instead you would make her other things that could waken her up without caffiene. at first, she would still refuse to try anything you made for her. leaving you very upset and her having to scarf down the food in order to stop you from spilling tears. sometimes being an omega had its perks.

you sat down by her round wooden table, enjoying the warmth that closed in on you. during winter, it was very difficult for you to feel warm in your nest at home. especially due to the fact that your apartments heating system has been broken for so long that you even offered to try and find someone to fix it, but your landlord cussed you out for thinking you had a right to tell him to do his job. stupid alphas. "alright bub, did you do what i told you last night?" pulling open a seat next to you, michan slowly sat in her seat beside you, similar to an elderly woman. groaning as her chair creaked while her weight pressed more and more until she was seated. you nodded with a shy smile, feeling prideful that you did the task correctly, you proceeded to bring your laptop out of your satchel and open it for her. michan began scrolling through the website while you laid your hands on your knees and giving repetitive squeezes of reassurance. waiting for her to praise you of your basic efforts. maybe it was the omega in you that always needed extra consolation.

although it appears that she had a stressed look on her face rather than a proud one, rubbing her forehead in annoyance. "w-whats wrong?" you asked nervously. biting on your bottom lip while trying not to squirm in your chair from her cinnamon scent spiking everytime her eyes scanned over something on the screen. "y/n, when i said to write a brief title, i meant something with a little more information. you have a bunch of horndogs replying to your ad now." she sighed and began clicking to delete the line of men and women who were attempting to reach you. "what? b-but they dont even know how i look?"

michan always envied your innocent mind, but at times like these she despised it. growing up she had to introduce you to almost every single thing you know now about the 'adult' world. giving you some of her dirty dvds and telling you to watch them, to which you complied, eager to please. however, it was safe to say youre entire body was flushed when you seen her next and told her off for making you watch such a thing. to which she responded with 'now you know why i dont hang out with you all the time'.

"they dont need to see what you look like, dork. when you are as desperate as they are, theyll fuck anything that has a hole." her harsh yet true words made you grimace. "wait, i think i found something that is somewhat normal." you lightened up at those words. your first job was definitely something you were excited for. being a newly 24 year old in such an advanced world, you finally felt as if you were becoming someone you dreamed of when you were younger. "it says, 'hello. i am a founder of hybe corportation, kim taehyung. we offer security to very important individuals in politics and an assistant is desperately needed to help file paperwork'." you peaked over her shoulder to see what she was reading, "having prior experience isnt required, so no need to worry. in person interview can be arranged if available. please contact us accordingly.' they left there phone number and website. hmm." michan squinted at the laptop.

almost trying to tell it to give up its secrets as to why a ceo would contact her omega friend-- who had made a terrible ad online. "no prior experience? thats good, right? i dont have any experience and i like to help." you smiled so wide your cheeks rose your eyes. your positivity seemed to slowly fade as michan spoke "well, it can be fake. ive heard of hype corporation and it is a real place..." she trailed off. "but?.." you urged her to continue.

michan sighed while tucking a piece of her bob behind her ear, "we will call and see whats up. if you get an interview im going with you to check it out." as the two of you made eye contact, you lightened up instantly, "r-really? thanks channie, i cant believe im gonna get a job! im finally gonna be able to pay noona back for paying my rent for me all these years," you stated with glee. "oh, you mean your super attractive older beta unnie who is single and very successful?" she batted her eyelashed with a hint of lust. those eyes of hers could never break you when it came to your sibling. "hands off my sister," you glared at her without an actual sign of threat. groaning, michan stood up to her full height and let out a playful low growl before heading to the living room. "youre no fun~"

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its been a few days since the call to set up an in person interview for you had happened -- michan ended up calling for you since you were too anxious. nonetheless, today was finally the day where you showcase your abilities. though you know you arent working with much, being an omega does have its perks. for example, omegas learn things way faster than alphas or betas, they do not know the definition of procrastination, and they are constantly wanting to please. which is exactly why michan said you would be perfect at this job.

you were desperately trying on different ties that you had in front of your mirror. you werent sure what to wear exactly to such an interview or any interviews for that matter. the black slacks that hugged your waist nicely while the white button up that was tucked into it made your bottom stick out a tad more than before. a small whine escaped your lips at the itchy feeling of the shirt on your skin. omegas were always prone to disliking rougher materials, breaking their skin out in hives when they were uncomfortable. needing to find a soft and comfy place to bury their skin in, in order to calm themselves.

huffing, you decided to put up with it, since it would be the only day you would need to dress up so nice, right?your hands went up into your hair and you began attempting to make it replicate a somewhat professional style. your locks deciding for you as your hands sweep through them. making you look even younger than you already do as your hair is slightly puffy. "y/n, im just gonna nap on your couch if you dont hurry up," her warning was calm but you knew she meant she was not going to be taking you if you both didnt leave that instant. a small whine escaped your throat at the threat, "o-okay! im sorry," a small pout accompanied your lips as you quickly grabbed your satchel and headed outside the small apartment you lived in.

michan knew of your anxiousness as soon as you had stepped foot in the car. the obstruction of your usual light scent was almost clouding her vision, the thick smell of stress laying on her shoulders. "yah, im gonna need you to take a few deep breaths." glancing over at you to see your hands were tightly clasped over one another and your legs were shaking.

you did as told and once you felt your legs begin to feel loosened, michan had spoke. "its just a job interview, ive done plenty of 'em. all your gonna do is answer the questions they ask you honestly and then they'll usually tell you if you got the job right then and there. the guy messaged you saying they needed an omega so youre the perfect candidate, okay? you got this in the bag," michan always knew how to comfort you in times of stress. you two could live with eachother for the rest of your lives and you would be satisfied knowing you had a just a loving friend who took care of you. well, michan would deny it but, she also couldnt deny the way her cinnamon aroma would smell even sweeter than usual at the thought. you took one more deep breath and felt better knowing how exactly it was going to happen instead of walking inside, blind.

you couldnt help but wonder if you could make any friends at the workplace. your inner child wanting to bond with other people so badly, wanting to make up for the lost childhood you had had. if you had a tail it would be wagging at this moment. "what are you so smiley for now?" michan gave you a quirk of her eyebrow before you responded with a shy voice. "m-maybe there will be other omegas and we can...we can be friends. since, it will probably be their first job too," you tried explaining your last hope for someone to befriend. michan held back a sigh of annoyance, the one thing you couldnt listen to michan about was forming new bonds. growing up you were constantly kind and it was taken for granted. however, you still had an ounce of justification for every single wrong someone did to you. michan was annoyed of it and usually scared away anyone that would try to talk to you with ill intentions. how did she know that someone was using you? well, that was something she kept to herself, but you were grateful nonetheless.

unfortunately, she still cant help but see the 11 year old boy who just wanted to play freeze tag with his peers but they would just leave him frozen throughout the game. michan would always come to save him but someone would instantly just freeze him. a 12 year old alpha muttering along the lines of 'omegas should know when to stay put'. michan thanked the heavens above you didnt seem to hear it, your excited smile and laughs continued as you stayed frozen and watched everyone else run and have fun. your scent was constantly flourishing that day, michan remembered. now 24 year old you was sitting in her passanger seat and had the same excited smile on your face. she couldnt help but feel nostalgic over the feeling she smelt off of you, "we'll see when we get there bub." you knew she held back on what she truly wanted to say, yet you were grateful she let your urge to befriend slide this time.

"can we eat afterwards?" you change the subject, smoothly. michan looked upwards at the sign on the street, squinting, before turning right onto a that lead to a huge apartment complex. "uh...yeah, we can." you noticed her odd demeanor as she halted the cars movements and stared at the building. "w-what? what is it?" her uneasiness coercing you to feel antsy in your seat. "this is supposed to be the place." her statement came out more as a question, raising her hand and pointing it out for you to see the huge and expensive looking building that had security outside of it. "isnt that.." michan looked over at you, "an apartment complex? yeah, this seems weird."

suddenly, you were hit with a wave of dejected emotions. what if this hybe corporation interview was fake afterall? you were once again cheated of a job and friends once again. cheated into thinking you actually had a chance at a somewhat normal life and bond. that you could actually be someone that could do basic tasks and not be shadowed by your own fears and doubt of not being a good enough human being. if you were as capable as michan said you were, why hasnt anything that is supposed to happen, happen?

"lets just go inside and see whats up," michan sighed as soon as she had seen your disappointment. as quickly as you were upset, the feelings seemed to do a full 180 as you looked upwards at her with hopeful eyes. "r-really? were gonna go look?" michan nodded with a low growl, "yes, but if i see anything fishy! we are leaving and going to gingers for brunch and thats that." she stated to which you whined happily at, trying not to wiggle in your seat fron your excitement. "okay, okay! we'll leave right away then."

you both unbuckled your seatbelts and headed out of the car that brought both you and michan comfort since high school. "see you soon, sweetheart. dont miss mama too much," you rolled your eyes at michans attachment to her car. before you both turned to make eye contact with two very tall and broad security guards who were already staring at the two of you. michan swallowed a growl of dominance while you walked alongside her and up to the two men. as soon as you broke distance with the two, you instantly knew they were alphas. their scent very strong even for michan, she knew you were struggling to not run away then and there. she hurriedly spoke, "hello, we're here for an interview with mr. kim taehyung." the two men looked at one another, almost speaking without actually speaking. "mr. kim taehyung, isnt here at the moment. you'll have to come back another time." one stated, matter-of-factly. you took a small inhale in disbelief. "b-but he s-said.." you trailed off as they now had their full attention on the you. the smaller omega that accompanied the female alpha, almost looking down at you in all aspects.

"im sorry, i think theres been a mistake," michan took a step in front of you to cover your body a smidge, "we called and scheduled an appointment with him today at this exact time, how could he not be here?" she asked with a slight menacing tone. you knew the undertones of alphas not getting along so well, very few packs had many alphas since they all constantly wanted to dominate. "like he said. hes not in right now." the other spoke up with a very loud growl coercing you to gasp while your body began to tremble. curse your omegan instincts.

they took one last glance at you specifically which made you duck your head down, feeling timid. one of the alphas scoffed before grabbing a walkie-talkie from behind him and speaking into the device, "mr. kim, there is two visitors who are looking for mr. taehyung and refusing to leave. do we escort them out?" it was silent for what almost seemed long enough for them to question if the frequency even worked. abruptly, a deep voice rang through, "let them up."

a gulp had pried its way down your throat as the two men reluctantly moved and opened the heavy glass door that led to a staircase heading upwards. "lets go, y/n," michan grabbed your hand firmly, but never too hard, and led you up the stairs. you quickly walked behind her, not enjoying how exposed you were to the alphas that had practically threatened michan with promising growls. the two men knew you were afraid and so did michan. even if someone didnt have the same sense of smell, people would still be able to tell how shook up you looked. you could hardly breathe by the time you finally reached the top of the staircase. only able to focus on michans scent that she seemed to push to engulf you, in order to calm your erratic heart. walking down the long hallway to the one double door that it lead to, michan suddenly turned around and knelt downwards, you looked down at her slightly with small breaths leaving your nose. trying your best to seem calm but you could never lie to her. michan seemed to notice as well, "okay. we are safe, so we are gonna take a few deep breaths."

she could see your eyes gazing at her with trust before following what she demonstrated to you. she truly was someone who you could rely on and you hoped she felt the same way. "im...im okay," you finally spoke between breaths. michan nodded before fixing your coat, throwing any signs of your stress down the drain. "bub remember, just a few questions then we head out to eat and we go to my house...and you can sleepover if you want." you brightened at that. nodding frantically as she let out a breathy laugh, "lets do this."

michan raised her fist and knocked twice on the door before silence was the only thing you two could hear. instantaneously, the door opened inwards to reveal a tall man with spectacles and a white buttoned up shirt. the light smell of coffee beans wafted into your face as he opened the door more. an alpha. his sleeves were ritten up so much you couldnt help but ogle at the mans arms that bulged out of his shirt. the shirt itself was having a hard time staying off the mans skin, the buttons so tight you could tell he was very well fit. your heart seemed to have relaxed from what happened prior but it was beating quickly for a very different reason. he was very handsome, you noted. "come in," he gestured while making room for you both. michan took a step first and you swiftly followed after bowing to the man respectfully, he only gave a half smile at that though.

you and michan both took off your shoes and followed the man who walked past a huge living space with windows that were so high they touched the second story cieling. to the left was a very wide kitchen that had marble counter tops and black sleek chairs on the island. it smelt of a bit of mint mixed with dark chocolate. it made you feel hazy at the scent, visibly relaxing as they walked in a-- once again, large room that had an equally large white desk. this was his office, you distinguished, "please, take a seat." his voice knocked the outgoing thoughts you were having.

bringing reality back into your mind, you stated a small 'thank you' before sitting on the black leather cabroile couch. you were grateful you couldnt feel the cushion on your skin, due to the fact that you would be very uncomfortable the whole time. leather and omegas did not mix well often.

"im guessing your the guy who messaged him?" michans voice once again had that tone of dominance in it. she couldnt help it even if she tried, "no, unfortunately, taehyung-ssi could not be here today because of an unexpected emergency." the silver haired man explained while moving a few piece of papers to other side of his desk to have space to see you two on the couch. from the undertones in the way the man spoke, michan knew he was lying but she wasnt sure why. putting her more on edge about being here. however, you seemed to have missed the memo as you quietly ask, "i-is everything, okay?" truly concerned for someone you have never met. michan supressed a petty laugh, knowing you would be upset with her for being insensitive to an -- what you believed to be-- actual urgent situation.

"yes, everythings fine. he should be back soon-" michan couldnt hold back anything else as she heard the man answer you, her very gullible and too kind-hearted friend, with another lie. "look i dont deal with devious men like you often but when i do, i always make sure to put them in there place." michans --yet calm and collected warning was something you were not prepared for in anyway. what happened to the peptalk she had given you a few minutes before? "the two idiots downstairs called you mr. kim on the radio, how are you not taehyung?" michans question did seem to spark something in your mind. you didnt catch that prior due to the fact you were mostly dealing with your legs almost buckling underneath you.

something that you were also not prepared for was how calm and collected the man had kept himself throughout michans tauntings. he sat with a nuetral expression, almost as if he saw it coming from a mile away and already conjured a plan within that time to deal with it. "my apologies for not introducing myself earlier, my name is kim namjoon. my brother was the founder and i am now the owner of hybe corporation, its a pleasure to meet you." he stuck out his hand to which michan looked as if she was close to almost ripping that same arm off. quickly you tried to put away your timidness and stood up and placed your hand in his, it must have caught him off guard, since he didnt squeeze your hand back for a few seconds. you pulled your hand to your chest and felt heat rush to your ears, "m'sorry..i j-just wanted to introduce myself...too." your voice seemed to begin failing on you as the alpha standing before you stared at you as you stuttered through your mess of an apology.

namjoon cleared his throat, recovering from whatever trance he was in as you seemed to make yourself even smaller than before. "no! it's completely fine, encouraged even. you must be the one im interviewing today," he stated with a wider smile. his facial expression seemed to have reassured you enough as your heavy embarrassment was peeled off of your back like a bandaid. you nodded with a nervous laugh, "uh y-yes, thats me. my name is l/n y/n." you sat back down hesitantly as soon as he had done the same. "okay y/n," his voice and your name seemed to have clicked so well together, you had to clear your throat as you felt an oncoming purr.

"and im guessing this is your lovely mate?" he gestured to michan with a slight sarcastic undertone but you did not seem to catch it as michan let out a warning snarl. "o-oh! no! this is my best friend, cho michan. s-shes here as um...m-my support." you explained as namjoons grey eyes flickered over to the woman who seemed to be your best friend and was currently glaring daggers at his face. how could complete opposites be best friends. "is that okay?" you asked nervously.

"i dont see why not." namjoon exhaled while flickering his eyes back to your innocent ones and gave a small smile, to which you returned. your eyes squinted a bit as your smiled, growing more comfortable with the man as he seemed to make you feel relaxed. maybe you just havent spoke to many people but he seemed nice.

"alright, im going to ask you some questions y/n-ssi and from what im aware of this is your first job, correct?" namjoon asked as you quickly nodded. namjoon looked to his computer screen and began typing away, "you are also 24 years old and you graduated high school a year younger than the average omega," he looked at you for answers and all you provided him was a small head nod. feeling shy talking about your little achievements, he just continued asking you questions. "have you applied to any colleges? it says you never pursued your education after that," you exhaled with a shaky breath. "um, y-yes, many.." namjoon observed the way your chest seemed to tighten at the question. however, he decided to just a push a little more. not knowing why he wanted to test your limits even if it was something as small as this. perhaps it was because the way he could see your ankles peaking through the bottom of your sleek pants as you sat. your foot wanting to bounce to convey your anxiousness but you put your hand firmly on your knee. pushing it to the ground until it had no space to move at all from it. "did you get accepted to any schools?"

now this question was something you didnt expect to be speaking about on a job interview. a small piece of your heart stings felt like they were being painfully strung. michan could only look down solemnly as she glanced at your lips parting with intent on your mind, yet nothing came out.

"y/n-ssi, i think if we were going to work together you might want to grow content with being more vocal." you couldnt help but feel startled at the sudden voice behind you. your body jumped with a small whimper, to which michan instantly stood up at, "excuse you! maybe you should work on staying more quiet we are in an interview, if you didnt notice." her heated slits turning its target from the man who leaned against the doorway to namjoon who was still seated and watching the confrontation from his desk. "do you let all of your employees walk all over you or do you actually hold some authority here?" she asked with a menacing growl.

you knew michan was only acting out due to the fact you were an omega and she had come across alot more male alphas than usual in one day. "m-michan-ah, im okay. really, it just startled me." you tried reassuring her but she stayed standing with her hands crossed on her chest. "y/n-ssi, this is yoongi. he is also an owner of hybe," namjoon ignored the female alphas harsh words.

you looked over your shoulder to see the raven haired man walking toward you with a slight smirk, "hello, y/n-ssi~," to say you felt small was an understatement. as looking at him this close you had a few seconds to realize something else, he was also very handsome. he broke distance with you quickly with his long legs, his scent hit you rather quickly. mint was twirling around your head, a beta, you noted. however, you also noticed namjoon and yoongi both have a different charm to them. "o-oh, its a pleasure to meet you," you stuck out your hand for him to shake, he instantly placed his in yours. well, more like yours in his. his large fingers wrapped around your entire hand, his fingertips tickling your inner wrist. "no, please. the pleasure is all mine." he gave a sly smile while still clutching your definite smaller hand. you could feel the tension rise as he still hadnt let go. letting out an embarrassed cough, you removed your hand quickly. not wanting to start anything odd before you started working here and seeing him every day for as long as you lived. you wouldnt want another job if you liked this one, right?

"when namjoon-ah told me we finally have an omega who would want to work with a corporation that has no other omega in sight, to say i was interested was an understatement," the tall mans slender fingers wrapped around his own wrist and laid over his waist. "im sorry? did you just say...no other omegas?" you asked in disbelief. namjoon must have percieved your disappointment and confusion written on your face because he stood up instantly and walked around his desk towards you two.

"i hadnt told him, yet-" namjoons mutters were cut short as the sound of two pairs of irregular footsteps were entering the household, the sound of the front door shutting shortly after. you peered over your left shoulder once again only to be met with strong scents. dark chocolate and melted caramel making your head feel hazy. why could you smell these peoples scents so profoundly?

"i told you! you need to use your cane properly or else it will become a bigger problem for you in the future!" a broad shouldered man with brown locks and golden eyes entered first. a beta. then came a slighter shorter one with black sleek hair that fell slightly over his bare forehead. an alpha. "then ill deal with it in the future, hyung." the alpha rolled his eyes. glancing downwards, you seen what the other man was speaking on, the alpha had a small limp to him. before anyone else could say anything, michan stood up, "this is getting ridiculous. let me guess, their ceo's as well?" her question was directed to namjoon who seemed to have an irritated look in his dark eyes. you bit your bottom lip as you noticed it, feeling afraid. consequently, the look in his eyes were glazed over in professionalism once again. "you are correct, ms. cho. there are seven of us in total working here. y/n-ssi, this is kim seokjin and jung hoseok," namjoon gestured to the two men who seemed to have been a deer caught in headlights.

it was silent for a millisecond too long, you swiftly stood up then hesitantly bowed beside namjoon. registering how much shorter you were to the average beta and alpha. alphas were averagely well built and not to mention tall. betas were very fit and more on the slimmer side due to their ancestors-- wolves, were known to be the glue to the pack. always taking care of the heart of the pack (omega) while the alphas were out hunting. so it says in history books.

"its nice to meet you both," you stood back up with a shy smile and glazed eyes. something that both seokjin and hoseok noted, nonetheless you couldnt help but feel a bit hazy as their scents were still flooding the entire room. leaving only a little bit of air for your lungs not to collapse. "are you just going to keep emitting your pheromones like that? you could make him sick!" michan shouted to stop the ongoing train of silence. the two men glanced at her then back to you, taking in your swaying figure and now drooped eyes. "i-im sorry, i-i didnt mean to hurt...i w-was just upset earlier s-so it..kind of.." seokjin took a step forward with a look of concern in his eyes. not leaning to touch you however, he rapidly reeled in his pheromones. the dark chocolate disappears from your nose and all you could smell now was the gradually fading scent of melted caramel. together it smelt beautiful, so beautiful you could drown in it. "i would never hurt an omega.." jin finished with one final mutter and a solemn look on his face.

"okay mr. serious, we get it. it was an accident," yoongi crossed his arms with a breathy laugh. jin rolled his eyes before pulling on the other betas ear, "i outta let you starve later, make your own food." he growled as yoongi gripped his ear with a whine and a grimace.

"uh no, its okay!" you waved your hands with an embarrassing heat rising to your ears, "it didnt hurt me it just was alot i wasnt prepared for." you fiddled with your tie that laid down your chest, namjoon turned towards you. resulting in you looking up at him, "i would apologize for their behavior but you might need to get used to it since you will be seeing them often." he gave a toothy smile and you swear your cheeks had heated up for a different reason.

"w-wait," your eyelashes fluttered with bewilderment, "seeing them often? does..that mean-" you whispered.

"yes, youre hired y/n-ssi. welcome to the team," yoongi cut you off with a small smirk and his large muscular arms opening wide for you. you were so geniunely excited about the news you merely jumped in them before michan pulled your coat back towards her. "hold on, bub," she growled at the four men she seen were all eyeing her best friend. "i think we are going to end...whatever you call this, early. we applied to other places and they definitely will have better options for him. so thank you but no thank you," she gave a fake smile while pulling you along with her. "what?! michan, please! i just got my first job-"

you pulled your arm away from her grip to which she growled at, "y/n, these guys are not professional whatsoever. i am not leaving you with them-"

to say that you were growing tired of being treated like a child was an understatement. you were finally getting a normal life and you were so eager to impress not only yourself but the others around you. just one opportunity to show that you were a normal human being. just one moment, thats all you could ask for. "enough!" you shouted. michan quickly stopped her rant and looked at you with wide eyes, "im going to take this job because its a very good shot for me. i dont even know any other job that will hire me right know and you know i need the money," michan closed her eyes with a heavy sigh.

the four men stood awkwardly while watching the whole discussion until hoseok whispered to namjoon, "hes kinda fiesty." namjoon only scoffed with a playful grin. "if only you were here earlier."

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vampireqrow-moved · 4 years ago

Text

um its my birthday so wait until 12:01am pst to block me if u hate this post 🥰🥰

long story short the pansexual label is redudant and actively harmful (its far from the worst problem bisexuals face but it is one issue) and i dont hate anyone who identifies as pan because A) those ppl are bi like me and B) i used to identify as pan myself.

if thats enough for you to block me and make a callout post for me then i cant stop you but pretty please either read this whole thing or just wait a few minutes for my bday to end 🥰🥰

anyways im kicking off this point with some personal experiences bc i love to talk to myself. i got introduced to the pan label at maybe 10ish years old, and started identifying with it pretty much right away. i heard about it before bisexual and it was pitched as attraction to all genders and of course trans people. i was of course a trans ally! i had trans friends! i was trans also but hadnt figured it out yet! the way i had heard of it, there was no bisexual, there was no need for bisexual, and identifying differently was excluding trans people, which I was certainly against. being bisexual was trans exclusionary and why would i exclude trans people? the 'hearts not parts' slogan was thriving around this time and i genuinely said it and meant it.

as i started to become more online, mostly through roleplaying websites and tumblr here, i started hearing of bisexuality. it was supposedly an older term, so older people still used it, but it was common knowledge that pansexual was the better, inclusive label and younger people should adopt the new inclusive language instead of the old and transphobic words like bisexual. /s

and then bi and pan solidarity was all the rage! pansexual wasnt erasing bisexuality, why did anyone ever think that? bi and pan were two separate and complete identities that were valid and had to be respected or youre a mean exclusionist. and an asexual person, hearing people labelled exclusionist always meant they were excluding people from the lgbta community who rightfully belonged, denying peoples lived experiences, and generally telling people theyre wrong about their sexuality because theyre too young. and all of those things were bad and had hurt me, so it would be ridiculous to change labels and support "pan exclusionists" because they were just as bad as ace and aro exclusionists, and they were all the same people. or so it seemed to me at that time.

then, 'hearts not parts' began getting called out for blatant transphobic by insinuating that pansexual was the only identity that loved people for their "hearts" and personalities instead of those gross gays, lesbians, bisexuals, and even straights who only saw people for their "parts". (STRAIGHT PEOPLE ARE NOT OPPRESSED. I AM MERELY POINTING OUT THAT PANSEXUALITY WAS SHOWN AS ABOVE ALL OTHERS.) many pan people, including myself, began to denounce the slogan and insist pansexuality wasnt transphobic, there had just been a coincidence that a transphobic slogan was everywhere and a huge part of people's explantions of and associations with pansexuality. hint: it wasnt a coincidence.

from my perspective, this is when i began to see people discussing dropping the word pansexual. that seemed to be a huge step from getting rid off a transphobic slogan, and these people were just meanies who hated microlabels. and i like microlabels! as a genderfluid person, and someone who has friends who use specific aro and acespec labels, ive seen how people can use them to name specific experiences while still acknowleging their presence underneath umbrella terms like aromantic, asexual, nonbinary, lgbta, and for some people, queer.

pansexuals dont do that. they dont label pansexuality as a specific set of experiences under the bisexual umbrella, they see themselves as a separate identity, and even if they started to, the history of biphobia and transphobic undeniably linked to the existence of pansexuality in enough to stop being worth using. but i digress. pansexualitys shiny new definition that many people cling to is that pansexual is attraction to all genders. bisexual is two or more genders.

which. frankly? doesnt make any sense. my guess is that its supposed to be inclusive of nonbinary genders and those a part of cultures who historically have not had a binary gender system in the first place. i cannot speak for the latter group, but as a nonbinary person, its not inclusive. anyone can be attracted to nonbinary people. literally anyone. theres no way to know if everyone you meet is nonbinary or not. whether or not a nonbinary person reciprocates those feelings and is interested in pursuing a relationship is completely up to the individual, regardless of the sexualities of the people involved.

bottom line is that you cant number the amounts of genders someone can be attracted to, thus rendering those definitions pointless. people can be attracted to all kinds of people regardless of gender, even if they are gay, a lesbian, or straight. all people can date thousands of nonbinary genders if all people involved are interested and comfortable with it. numbering the genders you can be attracted to diminishes the post of nonbinary, as it is not a third gender, it simply any experience not fitting within the western concept of the gender binary (if the person so chooses to identify as such. if you cant tell already, the nonbinary experience is varied between every single nonbinary person.) important to note also that no widely accepted bisexual text defines bisexual as attracted to exclusively two genders or even the "two or more genders". i know this is used a lot but please read the bisexual manifesto. its free online i promise.

some people also claim pansexuals experience "genderblind" attraction while bisexuals feel differently attracted to different genders. this is very nitpicky for whats supposed to be two unconnected idenities, but thats only part of the problem. this definition is also not in any widely accepted bisexual texts, and bisexuality has never excluded those who experience genderblind attraction. i am in fact a bi person who experiences genderblind attraction. this does not mean i am not bisexual. it simply means i experience bisexuality differently than other bisexuals, and thats wonderful! no broad communities like bisexuality are expected to all share the same experience. we are all so different and its amazing were able to come together under the bisexual flag.

last definition, or justification i should say, is that yes these definitions are redundant and theyre the same sexuality, but people prefer different labels and thats okay. i agree in principle. people can define themselves as many things like homosexuals or gays or lesbians or queers or even other reclaimed slurs, while still not labelling themselves under the most "common" or "accurate" labels.

but pansexuality isnt the same as bisexuality, which may sound silly but hear me out. it has been continually used as a way to further divide bisexuals, who are already subject to large amounts of lgbta discrimination. "pansexuality was started by trans people who were upset with transphobia within the bisexual community! it cant be transphobic OR biphobic!" except of course that it can and it is. to say that trans people cant be transphobic is absurd. transmedicalism is right there, but thats not what im getting at. all minorities can have internal and sometimes external biases against people who are the same minority as them.

pansexuality was started as a way to be trans inclusive at the expense of labelling bisexuality as transphobic when its not. transphobia is everywhere, and bisexuals are not exempt. instead of working on the transphobia within the community, the creators of pansexuality decided to remove themselves from it to create a better and less tainted word and community, and the fact that pansexuality is intended to replace bisexuality or leave it for the transphobes goes to show a few things. pansexuality and bisexuality are inherently linked because the pan label is in response to the bi label. due to its origins, it is inherently competing with bisexuality and it cant be "reclaimed" from its biphobic roots. pansexuality is not a whole, separate, and valid label. its a biphobic response to issues within the bisexual community.

to top off this post, heres something a full grown adult once said to me. in person. she was my roommate. "i feel like im pan because im attracted to trans people. trans women, trans men, i could definitely date them. but not nonbinary people because thats gross and weird." she saw pan as trans inclusive and defined herself that way as opposed to bi which is shitty!

also a little extra tidbit about my experiences identifying as pan. i saw myself as better than every bi person. all of them. even my trans and bi friends. whenever they brought up being bisexual i would think to myself "why dont you identify as pansexual? its better and shows people you support trans people." because i was made to believe bisexuality didnt and was therefore inferior. thats the mindset that emerged from my time in the pansexual community. i am so sorry to all of my bisexual friends even if they never noticed. i love you all and hope you have a great day. this also goes to any bisexuals or people who identify as bi in anyway, such as biromantic or simply bi. love you all.

ummm yeah heres some extra reading i found helpful and relevant. here and here. also noooo dont disagree with me and unfollow me im so sexy 🥴🥴🥴

#if u have follow up questions ill probably answer them 2morrow #if u ask something just be nice its my birthday 🙄🙄#anyways time to tag this lol !#pansexuality #biphobia #transphobia #q slur #long post #my post #ask to tag maybe??

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shiro-0197 · 4 years ago

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AHH it's okay the important thing is that you got your rest!! I'm glad you're okay now tho xD

oh my gosh YES 😭💖 I'd love that. There's just something special about the ice cream there, I swear—

Yes it was very very nice. Gordon was as cute as ever, and it was nice just hanging out with my friends on the first day of the new year.

oh I'm not sure what the fashion ones are for (probably yes, to make people look hotter grrr) but I have a few sports ones because they help with my grip, like cycling and tennis. It protects the palms, I guess, haha.

No I understand. Your school probably has different branches in other cities. Mine doesn't but I know some that do, so don't worry I'm not confused 😝😝

ahhh I'm sorry xD we use the term freely here, kinda like what you call your best friend, but okay twins with an age gap, that's cute. You're right, you two are pretty similar, at least from what I've seen. I have Aaron, who's very similar to me, so I can understand how you regard Kuro haha. But yes, it's always nice to relate to someone and have them with you. I've said this tons of times, but you guys are truly lucky to have each other.

thank you :) I hope so too. It's just something I have to work on, I suppose. But I'm really good at hiding my emotions, to the point where my friends don't know what I feel at all (besides happiness), and that's pretty scary honestly, because I wish I could be more transparent about it. Oh off topic again, but yeah just wanted to put that out there xD

I'm sure she considers you a huge help to her, and it's plain to see that you love her very much, so I hope things get easier for her!!

oh please don't worry about that at all, I completely understand! When I said that, I hope it didn't come out as me asking or anything (it was never my intention 😣😣)— I just meant that I didn't even need to know, because I still think you're cute and attractive all the same :)) and I already have a rough idea from what you've told me, so don't worry about creating an artbreeder :P (tho I've seen a bunch of anime characters on artbreeder and they're so pretty. I might just use it myself to make Oikawa or the Miya twins on it 😭😭💖)

Oh I see that's so cool!! You're mixed too :)) and yeah, it'd be so nice meeting people from other cultures as well >.< It's a shame, but that's okay! I'm sure one day, you'll be able to travel wherever you want, and bring your mom along too :))

I hope so too !! Fingers crossed, it might be the start of a beautiful new friendship ;)

aw that sounds so cute!! I'm so envious of people who have dreams, I rarely have them and it's so nice to indulge in them when you're asleep, and remember them when you wake !! do you have dreams often? And ahhh good good !! Glad they didn't lie about it or anything smh -_- I'm happy you enjoyed it :) and that's okay I'm weird too, we'll be weird together 😚💖

Intelligence is hot— 😭. And I'll probably start rambling about the history of firecrackers because I'm a show-off too (did you know they originated from China? 😍)

😃🔫 It ended an hour and a half late. I was too tired to watch anything :(( but that's okay I'll watch it tonight!! I hope you're enjoying your day. I love you more.

—ɐuɐᴉɹɐ🙃

Ahhh so sorry for late response!! I had to go out and I left my phone because it was out of battery😭😭

Ohh, does it? I hope they have melon ice cream😝

Aww that makes me so happy??!? I hope your next hey year goes like this, too!! I'm glad you had a great time

Ohh, right, I forgot about those xD yeah, I guess it's slippery when your hands are sweaty so gloves are useful. I really have no knowledge in sports clothes😭😭

Alright alright, glad you know!! Tbh I really hoep I can visit his school as a graduate one day:D

We really are😩 it's really awesome to have someone who's like you. It's like you're talking to yourself, but people won't find you weird because you're actually talking to another person. Though their answers are actually unpredictable, but that's good😋 I'm really glad you have Aaron. He seem like a great lil guy^^

I see what you mean, to be honest I'm like that too when I really dont feel well. It's really nice that you're trying to change that for yourself! Dont worry about getting offtopic, I do so as well hehe

Me too!! I really hope so

No no no no dont worry, Kuro had the idea when he saw the trend. He knew I didnt like taking pics even though I'm not really insecure about myself, so he proposed making one so I can share. Because i want people to see that I'm pretty😡 snjrjwjdjsnfjw

About that, he likes to send me the ugliest pics from Artbreeder and says "this is you" because he thinks hes funny ( ok he is but 😭😭)

He sent me this bad boy saying it's me and to be honest I think I'm never going on that forsaken website ever

Btw good luck with making the guys!!! Tbh I barely know how to use it and usually I get pictures like ^that one so uh it's painful really xD

I sure will!! And I will kidnap Kuro and his mom and we will go to Norway and eat cheeseburgers👍 and meet you of course hehe

Well, I do have dreams! Pretty often too, though they're nothing much? Usually I'm just there, watering plants or eating fresh pastry (which hurts when I wake up because turns out I dont actually have any)

Exactly!! Also that's great to hear, so just two weirdos chilling😋

True true, if someone says something smart with a smart look on their face trust me I'm already in love and planning our marriage😭 heheh, let's be show offs together I guess💕💕 also, I'd say I didn't but i think i subconsciously knew (is that a thing ??) about that because of Kung Fu Panda 2 XD

Awhh😭😭 well, I hope you slept well and have the energy to watch it today!! I did enjoy my day, it was pretty cool, I got a spicy&juicy hot dog and a coffee (which was fake as hell and sucked ass) during my adventure 😝 I hope yours went fun as well! I missed you, love you lots💞💞💕

#Ari💕

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somnilogical · 5 years ago

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case study of optimization style: how kelsey piper optimizes to destroy coordination against injustice

her false face of "worrying about disrespecting jay", was the closest thing she could grab that she thought would get others to optimize for my silence. get local warm bodies to pile upon me for continuing to talk about how to get justice and give more information about different sources of injustice in a way compatible with people who have not completely disabled their general intelligence.

she was worried about her reputation and transfems gaining information that would allow them to coordinate along lines of shared oppression (which would start to erode miri/cfar which she wants to survive in order to have a nice (for her) environment to raise her babies), but thats not a socially defensible reason to object so she laundered it through being “worried about disrespecting jay”

11/12/2019

[14:10] Jay (System of Edo): Sarah Spikes has offered to have REACH do an investigation. I do not know this human, and have barely heard of REACH, but my understanding is that it's some sort of sub-organization that CFAR spawned, roughly. My instinct is to be like, "I believe you will talk to everyone and then conclude that basically no action needs to be taken, so in that case allowing you to do an investigation gives an air of legitimacy to dismissing Jay". Is "REACH is basically CFAR's pet" correct?

[14:10] acertain: afaik reach is unrelated to cfar

[14:11] acertain: and the space is controlled by Sarah Spikes and Nat

[14:11] ratsby: that's also my understanding

[14:11] Jay (System of Edo): I did not mean literally, I meant like in practice, are they complicit, etc

[14:11] Jay (System of Edo): like with CFARs bullshit in general

[14:11] ratsby: weren't REACH the ones who did the Brent investigation?

[14:12] silver-and-ivory: they did something about brent but weren't able to publish the stuff they got bc they believed he would sue them for defamation

[14:12] Jay (System of Edo): Oh wow. Cowards lol

[14:12] Jay (System of Edo): yeah that's pretty much all I need to know.

[14:12] Jay (System of Edo): thanks

[14:13] silver-and-ivory: :( I don't think they're cowards for that

[14:13] silver-and-ivory: but you have all the information i have so w/e

[14:14] acertain: I think reach doing an investigation would mean the reach panel (https://www.berkeleyreach.org/reach-panel), which afaik is a separate set of people from those who decide how the space is run

[14:18] acertain: idk if the list of people on the panel on the website is up to date though

[14:19] stardust: List is up to date

[14:19] stardust: Full Brent statement is available upon request, not fully public because legal risk

[14:20] silver-and-ivory: https://theunitofcaring.tumblr.com/post/182885399661/abuse-allegations-anon-here-i-am-happy-to-hear

[14:20] silver-and-ivory:REACH consulted an attorney about making the result of the Brent investigations public and were told that there was absolutely no way to do this without making each of the investigators individually liable in a defamation lawsuit. I’m also worried they could be sued to reveal the names of people who spoke to them anonymously in the course of the investigation.

[14:21] stardust: We were planning to get liability insurance when we get our legal non profit status but that has not panned out yet

[14:21] stardust: IRS is slow and hard to navigate

[14:22] Jay (System of Edo): okay, this is enough info on REACH, thanks.

[14:24] Jay (System of Edo): just told her not to investigate.

[14:24] ratsby: wait why?

[14:24] stardust: (She is me)

[14:25] Jay (System of Edo): oh.

[14:25] ratsby: I don't see how them investigating could hurt anything

[14:25] Jay (System of Edo):wait why?I don't believe they'll do anything tbh

[14:25] stardust: I will refrain from posting here if you prefer

[14:26] ratsby: seems like some chance of upside, no chance of downside?

[14:26] Jay (System of Edo):>I don't see how them investigating could hurt anything

My instinct is to be like, "I believe you will talk to everyone and then conclude that basically no action needs to be taken, so in that case allowing you to do an investigation gives an air of legitimacy to dismissing Jay". Is "REACH is basically CFAR's pet" correct?

[14:26] Jay (System of Edo):>I will refrain from posting here if you prefer

Yes, thanks.

[14:43] hamnox: The characterization of REACH panel as CFAR's pet feels bizarre. Iirc it got started in no small part because a bunch of locals were pissed off at how CFAR failed to do anything about, and implicitly legitimized, Brent.

[14:58] 𒀭 💮: i dont really know Jay, but i do know that the REACH panel is unjust and about as helpful and necessary as christian missionaries were to native americans. im not reporting my thing to it.linta is on it who made false accusations of emma being indistinguishable from a rapist and somni doing some sort of sex party at their house for social ends of suppression of unrelated dissent. and was generally antitrans in the standard way of saying people are crazy and incoherent, like how people are saying Ziz is schizophrenic when she obviously isnt. i think much of it are populated by lintas friends like mike alicorn and anisha. sarah c, one of the few cis people i trust at this point, had an emotional breakdown about it citing that they dont care about the Law and i think resigned. given the sort of place it is, i bet that none of the REACH panel members are transfem, people can correct me if im wrong.

im kinda for transfems coordinating with each other to the extent they can against people like brent dill, alice monday, lintamande, anna salamon and other agents of injustice. with better game theory than the likes of the REACH panel who flinch at "defamation".

[15:11] SeriesOfSymbols: Umm

Tbh I'm very uncomfortable with the idea that all these people are in the same reference class

[15:11] 𒀭 💮: they are in the reference class of perpetuating injustics

[15:11] lintamande: sort of assuming it would be unhelpful to Jay to litigate disagreements from elsewhere here. I don't know anisha. I don't think ziz is schizophrenic. I never said somni participated in the uninvited surprise orgy in my house, just that I was mad at the people who did. I don't think the REACH panel is good for anything except getting offenders banned from REACH in particular rn, and I think we should maybe check in with Jay about whether the rest of this is helping

[15:11] SeriesOfSymbols: As are

you

And I

And ziz

Etc

[15:11] SeriesOfSymbols: Nobody is free from sin

[15:12] 𒀭 💮: ^ fallacy of grey

[15:12] 𒀭 💮: like also

[15:12] 𒀭 💮: there is a type difference

[15:12] 𒀭 💮: you socially but not legally implied to avoid culpability

[15:12] lintamande: guys does Jay want to host this conversation

[15:12] 𒀭 💮: the party things i could grep it

[15:13] lintamande: this is the server for helping Jay figure out what we can do to help

[15:13] TowerNumberNine: Jay appears to be idle at present

[15:13] TowerNumberNine: But previously they said there was enough info on REACH

[15:15] deluks917: Agree with Tower the Reach thing should get dropped

[15:15] 𒀭 💮: your "help" is poisoned in the same way that christian missionaries are and you are attempting to funnel peoples sights away from your injustice by framing me as derailing when this is relevant to Jay's needs.

[15:15] 𒀭 💮: and restriction of general intelligence is not.

[15:16] lintamande: somni I am happy to discuss this, I have messaged you offering to discuss this, I just am worried Jay will come back to this and feel like we are disrespecting what they've asked for here and not helping them

[15:16] SeriesOfSymbols: Fallacy of black and white

I think there is a meaningful difference between [rapists and abusers], [person who willfully covered for abuse], and [person who you have disagreements with]

[15:16] 𒀭 💮: i am not worried about this

[15:17] 𒀭 💮: i dont think im disrespecting Jay

[15:17] 𒀭 💮: there is a meaningful difference between stalin and yudkowsky, they are both, however, men.

[15:21] 𒀭 💮: coordination against agents of injustice is important. erasing the pattern of injustice is wrong. saying that all people are the same so we cannot coordinate against injustice because who knows who they are is wrong.it is important for people to know this sort of information so they dont do things like go to REACH expecting justice and then have their plans crumble.

[15:22] 𒀭 💮: people who present REACH as acceptable because "has not everyone sinned" are doing something wrong (linta is not doing this, they are doing a different sort of wrong thing, but also are erasing knowledge of the pattern of injustice)

[15:23] 𒀭 💮: or like if you run this reasoning on people and then apply it to reach with like "it couldnt hurt" are also doing something wrong

[15:24] x.: is there anything at all linta can say or do in this situation which will cause you to believe that they are not doing wrong?

[15:26] x.: (i am not sure how germane this topic is to anything, as this is not a dedicated "The Crimes of Lintamande" server, but so long as the subject is being discussed, i think it warrants asking)

[15:27] 𒀭 💮: yes, stop their suppression of emma and somni, their false claims made to not be culpable in a legal court but also to permeate a social court. stop their optimization for and apologism for cissexism, such in the case of minority stratification. "none of the panel members are transfem but the hosts are" "a lot of people who go to cfar are transfem but afaict none of the staff are" this is a bog standard oppression pattern which linta is familiar with.

[15:27] 𒀭 💮: and several other things.

[15:27] 𒀭 💮: i talked with them for months

[15:28] 𒀭 💮: before slowly and painfully realizing that they didnt care, that the structure they put out fed into evil, agentically. because they talked like my childhood friends who were particularly kind.

[15:28] 𒀭 💮: and i was vulnerable to that.

[15:28] 𒀭 💮: it was really hard to see through this aesthetic to how they were actually optimizing.

[15:29] 𒀭 💮: what effects they were having.

[15:29] x.: perhaps there is some other zone in which this chat would be more appropriate

[15:29] lintamande: that is what I have been saying

[15:29] 𒀭 💮: linta is trying to warp this conversation in that direction

[15:30] 𒀭 💮: because they dislike culpability

[15:30] x.: rather than both of you trying to get the last word in on what's clearly a grotesquely contentious conversation

[15:30] 𒀭 💮: i reject this plea of false peace

[15:30] 𒀭 💮: like

[15:30] 𒀭 💮: what you two are doing are obvious

[15:30] 𒀭 💮: i reject the framing of this not being relevant

[15:30] x.: right, every time one of you makes a post the other one immediately makes another

[15:31] 𒀭 💮: i reject this suppression of important information

[15:31] 𒀭 💮: framed as an irrelevant tangent

[15:31] lintamande: so I'm not saying 'this is irrelevant' I am saying 'let's check with Jay about whether this is helpful to Jay'

[15:31] x.: is new information being introduced?

[15:31] 𒀭 💮: i can see what you are doing

[15:31] lintamande: even if this is incredibly relevant and important it should happen somewhere else unless Jay wants it here

[15:31] 𒀭 💮: it is not optimizing for the good of jay

[15:31] 𒀭 💮: or the good of justice

[15:31] x.: @𒀭 💮 she's making posts online, which you are also doing

[15:33] 𒀭 💮: "making posts online" is important to the fate of the planet

[15:34] 𒀭 💮: like and a lot of other stuff. you cant say "its just making posts online, this is dumb" like sometimes posts are dumb but this is a reference class warp to claim this post is dumb, when i can see its not.

[15:35] x.: did i say it was dumb?

[15:35] 𒀭 💮: you are optimizing for like "you two are just contentlessly fighting, this is silly why dont we do something else besides fight." which is Pretending to be Wise.

[15:36] 𒀭 💮: https://www.greaterwrong.com/posts/jeyvzALDbjdjjv5RW/pretending-to-be-wise

[15:37] x.: i have actually not suggested the flamewar should stop, merely that this specific chat might not be a reasonable location for it

[15:37] 𒀭 💮: and talking with you about this pattern also supports lintas utility function which is suppression of the knowledge of injustice

[15:38] x.: i mean, i am not the person running the show here, so i could be entirely mistaken

[15:38] x.: it appears to me that this chat is supposed to be about a guy named "robert"

[15:39] x.: this seems tenuously, at best, connected to that

[15:39] 𒀭 💮: and yet Jay's statement

>My instinct is to be like, "I believe you will talk to everyone and then conclude that basically no action needs to be taken, so in that case allowing you to do an investigation gives an air of legitimacy to dismissing Jay". Is "REACH is basically CFAR's pet" correct?

[15:40] 𒀭 💮: and my statements are relevant

[15:40] silver-and-ivory: I feel like in the absence of Jay's presence people should do what they think is best

[15:40] 𒀭 💮: i think even in the presence of Jay, people should do what they think is best

[15:40] silver-and-ivory: also true

[15:40] x.: as far as i can tell, jay already said they were not interested in pursuing an inquest by the hand of the BREACH

[15:41] x.: and refused to engage in such a thing

[15:43] x.: so it's like, "is this person, whose involvement was specifically not requested, a dick?"

[15:43] 𒀭 💮: as far as i can tell this is optimization for silence. because this touches on important things, instead of having a paternalistic additude towards Jay. my read on their CEV after skimming their blog is that they are anti-suppression.

[15:44] 𒀭 💮: also, by like some sort of property rights, this is like 50% my channel.

[15:44] 𒀭 💮: as i was sexually assaulted by robert lecnik.

[15:45] 𒀭 💮: you are interfering with my space as a victim. which is a seperate thing.

[15:45] 𒀭 💮: this is "Robert Lecnik Abuse Chat"

[15:45] x.: so you would prefer to have lintamande investigate this in some way, then?

[15:45] 𒀭 💮: my report is the second item in #concrete-reports

[15:46] 𒀭 💮: i dont want linta to investigate anything besides their complicity with a cissexist system.

[15:46] 𒀭 💮: moriwen made helicopter jokes

[15:46] 𒀭 💮: after they ran out the trans people

[15:46] 𒀭 💮: from EAC

[15:46] 𒀭 💮: and is friends with linta: okay, i guess i am too confused to participate any further then

[15:46] 𒀭 💮: linta framed that as "blowing off steam"

[15:47] 𒀭 💮: i do not feel safe around either of these humans.

[15:52] 𒀭 💮: like not exactly blowing off steam but they said like it was good people were having fun when mori was doing their antitransfem thing.

these things become more obvious with processing.

i think robert, given their pattern so far of predation, possibly exploited environmental cissexism, was enabled by this. erasing knowledge of it leads to inability to coordinate against it leads to cis people treating transfem humans as if they exist in morality holes.

[15:54] 𒀭 💮: like i was around robert lecnik after Jay talked with anna about him i think. if anna listened to Jay and took them seriously, if robert lecnik were banned from cfar spaces and the berkeley meetup, i dont think i would have been sexually assualted.

[15:57] 𒀭 💮: erasing knowledge of cissexism because the people perpetrate it "use preferred pronouns" or whatever leads to inability of transfems to coordinate against it.

[16:04] 𒀭 💮: Jay wrote:

>On Anna Salamon: I remember her seeing me as a transwoman who exclusively liked men; Blanchard has a whole “theory” about this. And apparently that made me a “real” transwoman (wtf), unlike the rest of the transwomen in LW. I feel she explicitly went out of her way to validate me as a woman a number of times, like, there was one time she was saying hi to me and did the human version of this: (http://www.thebalancedcanine.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/IMG_1166.jpg). Which, yeah, she’s a TERF.

>Also, the reason I hated her early on was, there was a time that she, I, Robert Lecnik (my rapist), and Peter (his husband) were in a room for an hour long private therapy thing since Peter was a large CFAR donor. Robert admitted to “sexually assaulting Fluttershy and being ‘bad at consent’ with a whole bunch of other people”, and Anna didn’t see any issue with letting him continue to “run the Berkeley meetups” (an honorary thing, he used it to often-ineffectively hit on people). And I had some betrayal trauma from Anna around this, as well as a later feeling of “wow I got pwned by a guy that low in mana, I’m lame”, too. Fortunately it’s all emotionally processed now.this sort of information is very relevant for coordinating against people like Robert Lecnik

i think if cissexism were deleted, in counterfactual worlds in which transfem people got to be on things like "abuse panels", this sort of predation wouldnt happen. but like responses that reactively goodhart this and say "choose the most complicit-with-the-cistem transfems and place them on the panel to avoid culpability" are useless.

individuals learning game theory, forming class-consciousness, and coordinating with each other might help bring justice to things like Robert Lecnik being allowed by the cistem to continue to prey on trans people, to prey on me. with full knowledge that this was going on.

[16:05] 𒀭 💮: https://sinceriously.fyi/intersex-brains-and-conceptual-warfare/#comment-240

[16:09] 𒀭 💮: i have some hope in anarchistic cooperation between smart humans. i have approximately 0 hope in cissexist abuse panels and people like anna salamon who allow the predation of me and people like me to happen.

[16:37] Jay (System of Edo): sec, need to read through all this.

[16:58] 𒀭 💮: if cissexism were deleted this narrow sort of predation would stop happening but like, there would still be predation there would still be predation on minorities. i care about all sentient life not just transfems. this is not an optimization target but is saying "you who say cissexism does not have a hand in the game, if cissexism were actually deleted the counterfactual world post-deletion would look very different than this one. accepting a status quo where like trans people arent on things like sexual abuse panels and arent employed as CFAR staff is accepting cissexism. and resulting in things like, when they go to these institutions they are ignored"

[17:22] Jay (System of Edo): So. My main thing is to look at what algorithms people are running. Like, REACH sounds like they're not brave enough to do something they believe would make the world a better place at a small personal cost, so why would I care about mitigating circumstances if I already know that that's the algorithm they're running. (edit: this is what "is REACH basically CFAR's pet" pointing to, eg if they are pwned by the same things. rather than pointing to whether the two orgs are ostensibly related).

Similarly, discussion of REACH beyond what was needed for me to figure this out (about six lines of text) is not at all useful to me. But pointing this fact out to silence Somni suggests some sort of preference to defend REACH. So, if that's the algorithm you're running, then I see you as (probably) sorting people/discussion topics based on what you can socially get away with. Sort of like, the word "appropriate" is in the same class as "uppity" "disrespectful" "honorable" etc, and this applies to asking if it's "appropriate to discuss REACH despite Jay's preferences".

I personally do not participate in long conversations about who is "in the right", because I personally find it very easy to figure out what people are trying to do, and find that continuing on chats longer than that is a waste of my time. But, this is also Somni's space as a victim of Robert, so it's okay if she wants to discuss REACH I guess. I've never talked with her, but she (they?) seems to have good takes with respect to when someone is de facto hurting others or running bad algorithms in a way related to that.

[17:49] Jay (System of Edo): (sort of like, when I hear that someone sexually assaulted another person, I don't think, "well I guess it's a small harm relative to the good you can do if you're maximizing your life for utilitarian impact", I rather think, "what the fuck algorithm are they running, I don't think they'd have done that if they were trying to reduce the suffering of all beings, maybe there's something I can get out of this person, but definitely not like, outsourcing thinking/project leadership/etc to them"

[18:50] Lorelei: (also related to the reach panel, I'm transfem and was very eager to volunteer as a member, in part because I wanted my queer social circle to have some representation in the process of Justice, but was turned down.)

[18:51] Lorelei: (just so they can't claim not having a tranfem member is justpure coincidence/lack of volunteers)

[18:58] 𒀭 💮: (linta messaged me to say that moriwen saying the helicopter thing was after they said having fun was good. and i checked this and its true. but like that is not at all central to why i think they are collaborating with cissexism or why i talked with emma for like 15 minutes about how people like linta and mori might be horrible to transfems if we told people about alice monday. (people wouldnt actually be marginally worse to transfems. people dont have prejudiced beliefs like that, their transphobic "beliefs" are a coordination mechanism for harm. white people in the antebellum south could see perfectly well that those who were enslaved were human beings.) noselling commitments to transphobia is a good move in response to "what if outing a trans abuser worsens cissexism?".)

[19:02] silver-and-ivory: oh linta and mori left

[19:02] 𒀭 💮: they were banned

#optimization style

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angelicrebelsworld · 5 years ago

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5 hours ago

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5 hours ago

I’ll let you figure it out in court. I have noted this as harassment. If there is anymore that you need to say i advise you to go through the court.