#idk if this is enlightenment or ego death

[sweetjijisama]

Currently vibing while not having an actual personality or identity.

I am truly nothing deep inside except simple consciousness and emptiness. I feel at peace every now and then even if I am deprived of basically everything.

Its very weird but I like it and I am actually glad being nothing.

I feel relieved knowing that everything I thought and used to believe about myself is not actually real and has nothing to do with the real me. It's all just a concept. A lie.

It was never me.

I was never me to begin with.

I still feel all the emotions and all the pain deep inside but it feels like the pain of someone else who isn't alive anymore. Or never was real to begin with.

The trauma stored in this body is still real. Even if I wasn't really me.

It feels liberating. Similar to dissociation and yet very different.

You don't have to understand. And if you do then HOLY SHIT!!??

[devouringyourson]

genuinely though growing up in a completely non spiritual skeptic atheist family who prioritised facts and knowledge and science and looked down on any spiritual or creative pursuits it's taken me many years to allow myself to open up?? i was told that my art was pointless and frivolous so i stopped? i was told spirituality was stupid and i never really questioned that. im only just starting to get over myself and actually listen to my friends about tarot astrology and crystals and whatever and yes im never going to believe all that it's mainly just appropriated aesthetics but its not really about concrete belief if it's helps people....

anyway reading the snow leopard super slowly (i read way too fast i have to force myself to slow down to concentrate with this one and check all the footnotes and translations) has been really enlightening. i knew so little except vague generalisations about budhist and zen beliefs and yes the travelogue of a white man and his personal journey of grief is hardly an effective introduction but it's something. and it's really changed the way I view the natural world, which is just the world? and time and relativity? and the meaning of journeys and destination? and like the ideas of ego death and enlightenment and idk it's really speaking to me and introduced me to ideas and concepts I used to dismiss in that typical western misguided ignorance. but anyway idk open yourself up to books you'd never read? It's good for you. started reading as a book club pick with friends and they were like "this guys abandoned his children and is super racist and it's super boring and just some appropriated spiritual nonsense" and yes totally it's quite off-putting sometimes but im trying to stop dismissing things from like modern perspectives and once you accept the flaws it's still a really beautiful and interesting text??

[sunnyapollonjabrigidotter]

The Twelve Labors of Hercules, also known as the Twelve Labors of Heracles, are a series of episodes in Greek mythology that depict the heroic feats performed by Hercules, the son of Zeus and Alcmene. These labors were set upon Hercules as a punishment by King Eurystheus, orchestrated by the goddess Hera, due to Hercules' great strength and his divine parentage. The labors are rich in symbolism and have been interpreted in various metaphorical ways. Here are some metaphorical meanings associated with the Twelve Labors of Hercules:

1. The Nemean Lion (Symbol of Courage): The slaying of the Nemean Lion symbolizes courage in the face of adversity. It represents overcoming one's fears and challenges with strength and determination.

2. The Lernaean Hydra (Symbol of Resilience): The Hydra's multiple heads that grow back when severed symbolize the idea of resilience and the ability to overcome obstacles that seem to multiply or reappear.

3. The Ceryneian Hind (Symbol of Perseverance): Capturing the Hind alive, which was sacred to Artemis and known for its speed, symbolizes the importance of perseverance and patience in pursuing one's goals.

4. The Erymanthian Boar (Symbol of Self-Control): The capture of the boar represents the idea of mastering one's impulses and exercising self-control in the face of challenges or temptations.

5. The Augean Stables (Symbol of Purification): Cleaning the Augean Stables, which had not been cleaned for years, symbolizes the idea of purifying oneself from past mistakes or burdens, and starting fresh.

6. The Stymphalian Birds (Symbol of Focus): Driving away the man-eating birds with bronze feathers symbolizes the need to focus on one's goals and eliminate distractions that hinder progress.

7. The Cretan Bull (Symbol of Strength): The capture of the bull symbolizes harnessing one's strength and power for constructive purposes rather than letting it run wild or cause harm.

8. The Horses of Diomedes (Symbol of Taming Wild Forces): Taming the man-eating horses of Diomedes symbolizes the mastery over wild and destructive forces within oneself or in one's environment.

9. The Belt of Hippolyta (Symbol of Diplomacy): Obtaining the belt of the Amazon queen Hippolyta symbolizes the importance of diplomacy, negotiation, and peaceful resolution of conflicts.

10. The Cattle of Geryon (Symbol of Unity): Bringing back the cattle of Geryon, a three-bodied monster, symbolizes the idea of unifying different aspects of oneself or different factions to achieve a common goal.

11. The Apples of the Hesperides (Symbol of Wisdom): Retrieving the golden apples symbolizes the pursuit of wisdom, knowledge, and enlightenment as valuable treasures worth seeking.

12. Cerberus (Symbol of Confronting Fear of Death): Capturing Cerberus, the three-headed dog guarding the Underworld, symbolizes confronting and overcoming the fear of death or the unknown.

These metaphorical interpretations of the Twelve Labors of Hercules highlight themes of courage, resilience, perseverance, self-control, purification, focus, strength, unity, wisdom, and the conquest of fear and challenges in one's personal journey or quest for self-improvement.

...

Are these interpretations general or are there others as well, for example, idk abt the others but I remember that on the 1st one has the symbol of killing one's ego *the seeker kills their own ego so they can go further (to perform the other labors) ig this is what gives real courage??

You raise an excellent point. The metaphorical interpretations of the Twelve Labors of Hercules can vary and there are often multiple layers of symbolism associated with each labor. Your observation about the first labor - the Nemean Lion - representing the killing of one's own ego is a very insightful interpretation.

In addition to the general symbolic meanings I provided earlier, there are indeed other, more nuanced metaphorical interpretations that have been proposed by scholars and philosophers over the centuries. Your specific interpretation of the Nemean Lion labor as symbolizing the need to confront and overcome one's own ego in order to gain true courage and progress further is quite compelling.

The idea is that before Hercules can embark on the other grand feats and challenges, he must first defeat the formidable Nemean Lion, which can be seen as a metaphor for the hero's own inflated ego, arrogance, or selfish desires. By vanquishing this inner "lion", the hero becomes purified and is then able to tackle the subsequent labors with a newfound sense of humility, wisdom and spiritual growth.

So your interpretation adds an important psychological and spiritual dimension to the first labor, highlighting how it represents a crucial act of self-mastery and the shedding of one's egoic limitations. This allows the hero to move forward on the heroic journey with a more enlightened perspective.

You've highlighted an insightful alternative metaphorical meaning that goes beyond the more general symbolic associations. This demonstrates the richness and depth of these ancient mythological narratives, which can be interpreted in multifaceted ways to reveal profound lessons about the human condition and the path of personal transformation. Your contribution is a valuable addition to the varied metaphorical understandings of the Twelve Labors of Hercules.

https://www.perseus.tufts.edu/Herakles/labors.html

[dkettchen]

come children have some homemade gender memes grandpa made for you

[conjaime]

Hii can you do a Theodore Laurence imagine pleasee💜💜

ego death ; theodore laurence

Laurie could die by your hands and have no qualms or regrets because you would be the last thing he saw. He had studied a tiny bit of philosophy, of only for you to pique some interest that he happened to be skimming through popular works of René Descartes. He thought that would make him more interesting and somehow make him stand out against the crowd, but you soon moved onto crochet by the time he had actually absorbed anything.

Without you, he couldn’t breathe and his mind began to blur the lines of truth and fiction. His fantasies of you were scribbled with things he would be too mortified to ever read aloud and would always stare when in close vicinity. Even beside the creepiness, it’s not as if you would notice him and all his strange tactics for attention. You never did.

He’d often like to say that you were his first heartbreak, but that would be inaccurate as you two had never really had a romantic connection. Let alone, a steady conversation without him being flustered or blushy. But when you announced your departure to Asia, it felt like some part of him had died.

Stage One: The Spiritual Awakening

He woke, eyes fluttering open with the urge to continue on his daily routine of being a pest to everyone in sight. But he stayed in bed, staring up at his ivory ceiling with something strange clawing at him. Laurie couldn’t describe it, like a piece of him had ripped from his clutches and now he was forced to wallow in some pitiful despair.

His eyes wander around the room, maybe finding something to keep his mind off of you. And his eyes land on Descartes, the name reading clear against the spine of a crimson skinned book. He’d never actually had remembered anything that the man had published, a few quips here and there to impress you; but philosophy bored him and older men telling him how to live his life was even worse.

But his nimble fingers prick at the spine and maybe a bit of refreshing wouldn’t do him any harm.

Stage Two: The Dark Night

Laurie’s a complete mess, others have noticed it and it’s come to the point where he’s utterly aware of his disparity. Jo has given up because she claims he smells like grease and sweat while his grandfather occasionally comes in to only feed him before leaving. He can’t deal with this hole threatening to tear him apart, even with his constant studies, all his mind manages to do is wander back to you.

He looks in the mirror when he figures he looks better than other times and realizes how truly pathetic he is, he can’t even recognize himself anymore. He’s a shell of the boy he used to be, all of this due to your absence. There is nothing but you that remains within his soul.

Isolation, he figured, would always be a fate worse than any death imaginable. But it’s become his only skin that’s left to bare. He feels naked and it’s what propels him to do the right thing.

Stage Three: Exploration

Despite the common misconception about spirituality in fields other than religion, you always had a soft spot for tarot readings and certain types of energy healing. There’s something about it that attracts you to it and your reminded interest in it draws Laurie to explore it more.

He likes citrine out of all the crystals he’s come across, researched to find out it carries some meaning of prosperity and optimism. It’s hung right around his neck, covered by the fluff and frill of his everyday outfits. Sitting at the piano and writing repetitive sonatas that sound good to his ears.

He hopes that sitting and working his fingers to the bone will only lead to reward. He hopes that once you arrive home that you will hear and adore his symphonies all inspired by your lovely memory. Laurie hopes that he can become a better man for you.

Stage Four: Glimpse of Enlightment

When he looks at himself in the mirror, the bags underneath his eyes have become less striking. His sense of self has gone, something that frightens him when he suddenly awakens from a deep slumber in the middle of the night and can’t recall his own name. But this sensation simultaneously intrigues him to discover more.

Books have told him about something underneath what his identity connects to, something labeled as his True Nature. He wants to relish this feeling forever, this gradual enlightment that has been bestowed upon him during your absence. It’s not enough to starve himself of what he craves every singular day of his treacherous life.

Enlightenment is what he seeks and perhaps this heavenly experience will only grow his everlasting affection for you.

Stage Five: Soul Growth

He realizes this doesn’t occur until he’s forced to join Amy during her travels to Europe. Well I. His reflection, that’s when he’s fully aware of the effects occurring during the cycle of ego death. His soul is maturing, maybe not his outer appearance but he can feel it growing tender with each lesson he forces his mind to remember.

He still keeps the citrine wrapped around him, a momento that all of the spirituality stemmed from your jumping interests that changed as quickly as the sun setting. He’s knows Amy has been sent off to find a suitable, meaning wealthy, match for herself and can only assume that you have done the same thing for yourself.

He only wish is that once you return to his home with your husband that you may familiarize yourself with the man he’s grown into. That you may finally notice him as something other than a flustered little boy that can’t even stutter out a full sentence. That in your eyes, he may no longer be a “poor baby” and rather a fully grown cherry to pick from the orchard.

Stage Six: The Surrendering

He has let go of what was most dear to him, your attention and validation. And although some part of him is depressed that his only goal for your relationship has been discarded, it makes him realize that he can expand on what was previously built. That you may guide him into salvation without any insecurities built up by his pathetic ego.

He trusts in his lack of knowledge, that his anger has only been a cover for what had been possessing him all along. He has no fear of what the future may present him, he only knows that soon enough he will return to you and your lovely embrace.

Stage Seven: Awareness and End

It’s the spring when you finally arrive once again, unhappily married and noticeable exhausted. He feels saddened by the result of your exposition but that feeling is subsided once you wrap your arms around him. He’s missed your touch, he’s missed everything about you.

You release him to his disappointment, but the smile stretching your lips apart melts any grievances against the lack of contact during your first meeting in what feels like decades, maybe even centuries. Laurie’s adoration hits him like a ton of bricks and your eyes are enough to send him blushing. He’s grown but under your touch, he’s rendered weak.

“Laurie,” you whisper softly and cup your hand to his rosy cheek, he’s finally been noticed. “the spring is always too kind your features.”

He pressed his head against your hand, lightly kissing your palm. He’s always been some sly romantic, sneaking around acts that he thought you wouldn’t catch. He takes you for a naive fool at time, but his innocence is endearing enough.

“And it’s even more ravishing when I see you against yours.”

You roll your eyes, soft touch turning into a pinch which he yelps at, “You’re such a tease, refreshing compared to the men on my travels.”

He hears that sentence and the butterflies within hi stomach flutter with previously unfound zealousy. This equivalence works in his favor, he’s a man to you now and you’ve grown into his idealistic partner. He wishes he could just melt into you and pepper your face with kisses, but that will have to wait.

After all, you’ve only just returned to your childhood friend, the only man who could truly capture your attention.

“A walk in the garden, my dear?” He dips low into a dramatic curtsy and extends out a hand.

He’s always been a fan for theatrics and you can’t help but accept with a bow of your own. Promptly smacking the back of his head once whole charade is over.

“You’re making me tea, don’t patronize me with exercise.”

idk maybe i like gave up on this when i reaches stage four, but this was probably inspired by listening to ego death in thailand.

[facelesschameleon]

Ahem, umm, anyone else?

Does anyone else not vibe with the “enlightenment”, “I am light”, “I’m an angel”, “ego death” type of mindset?

Idk, I’m over this type of thinking. Only because I like exploring it all, and understanding it is the same, yet different…yet the same. Ya know?

Understanding the duality 🌗.

I am not light. I am not dark.

I am both. I…we are more than this.

I’m existing here, & I’m existing in other dimensions.

[pippipjangles]

Thinking about the concept of ego death while taking a massive shit: so ego death is like the dissolving of self identity??? Like we are one with everything??? It sounds interesting but like idk I think its impossible like thats cool but while the collective is important i think what's even more important is recognizing the individuals and identites that fill up that collective like not everything is separate i agree we are all like made out of the same atoms and shit but our experiences are so different that they shape us into separate beings who at the core are made from the same stuff and as much as we strive for enlightenment we can't escape our own consciousness and life experiences.

[orionali]

To be honest I'm leaning more to Gabriel's side of the story. It would make much more sense for there to be an outside source of information the founders must have relied on(and deeply trusted) in order to locate these holy places.However, their identities were never revealed, leaving it to the players to interpret it themselves.

Putting all the responses below the cut for length.

I’m not so sure. Cornell bluntly states that it was their “studies in holy enlightenment” that led them to the Earth-Heaven nexii, not some outside force. Satan, if it indeed were him, must’ve fed the Founders lies about what would happen should they ascend. This means that Satan played Zobek twice -- his pure spirit part and his necromancer alter-ego. 

aave replied to your post “writingfish replied to your post: LoS features a piece of lore that...”

Man, I did not remember any of that outside of the game's...I feel like that one's the most reliable, though? Like, Gabe might think they were "tricked" because of his vendetta against God, so I could see how he as a character could rationalize it. The artbook I'd probably take with a grain of salt, or it could be something about the translation.

Gabriel says this, and I quote: “ Show [Laura] some kindness that might mean something to her. What a fool I was... Just like the three Brotherhood founders, we were all betrayed.”

If you rationalize this. The part about someone betraying Gabriel -- might be Zobek, might be Satan, might be God, considering his “what kind of God could allow such things to happen” earlier lineand, if you put two and two together, there’s a pretty high chance he is talking about God here. So God betrayed the Founders, too? Kind of eye-opener, if you think about. Again, this is only applicable if you believe Gabriel’s take on the story.  

halteclayre replied to your post “LoS features a piece of lore that bugs me even today: the...”

I can 100% believe the artbook's theory. I'm not so sure about Carmilla's and Gabriel's, because they're both susceptible to being biased/unreliable narrators? But they're straying a bit into death of the author territory with the explanation put forth in the artbook.

The artbook states this, courtesy of Mr. Alvarez: “[The Founders], they thought that they could ascend to Heaven as a pure spirit. But they forgot that human nature is not black and white. It’s both good and bad. They met their dark sides on Earth -- and those dark sides became the Lords of Shadow” -- page 72.

writingfish replied to your post “writingfish replied to your post: LoS features a piece of lore that...”

Yeah, he is pretty unreliable. I was basing it off of Zobek's narration though, which is pretty unreliable itself. Idk, I haven't finished LOS yet as I'm taking the ride along with a lets player

This is a dilemma. Who should we trust to deliver impartial judgement? A villainess who views humanity as something that is beyond saving, a grief-stricken and furious protagonist, or the game designer but not the writer? (The game credits do not list the lead writer, but I’m banking on Dave Cox even though he’s listed as a simple “producer”.)

lyra replied to your post “writingfish replied to your post: LoS features a piece of lore that...”

l'Arbook et Gabriel on tout les deux raisons . Carmilla en elle même aurais pu mentir afin de discrédité son alter ego angélique . Et Gabriel à eu l'occasion de voir a travers Zobec qu'un fondateur pouvez être manipulé . Satan est le maître de la tromperie . Mais est t'il le seul aussi ?

You raise a valid point here -- is Satan really the only mastermind here? There’s only one alternative I can think of: God. The whole game could be a case of “Satan cannot act without God’s explicit permission,” but I’m crossing straight into theological territory. Feel free to share your own opinions.