#i've been on and off tumblr for the past ~15 years and i've had more acconts than i can count for whatever fandom i've been into at that

[diary-ofamadwoman]

kissing all of my mutuals on the forehead; i love and appreciate each one of you so much♥♥♥

[am-i-the-asshole-official]

WIBTA For telling my partner I'd like to bring my ex into our relationship?

I'm copying this over from r/relationship_advice, because the responses are giving me the impression they don't really get what polyamory is & I'm hoping tumblr does. For reference: there's me (29M), my ex (28, Trans Man), and my partner (30M).

My ex and I were best friends in high school, went to the same college, & dated through the tail end of undergrad, for about a year and change. We ended things on very good terms, the only reason we broke up was a difference in life paths: I stayed in the city to get my Master's, he traveled constantly for his work (he's a sculptor who makes these huge custom multimedia pieces, they're genuinely some of the most beautiful things I've seen). We fell out of touch for the most part, but I'd see him popping up on social media occasionally, or he'd text me when he was in town and we'd hang out, along with some other school friends.

The last time I saw him before our present situation was about 3 1/2 years ago today. We went out for drinks, he came back to my place after, and we ended up hooking up. He stayed in town for about a week, and we hooked up a few more times, and then he left again. He sort of dropped off the face of the earth after that, but he'd always been pretty sporadic, especially when he had a big project, so I didn't think much about it.

Not long after that, I met my current partner. He's truly one of my favorite people in the whole world; he's incredibly thoughtful, and earnest, and passionate about his morals & principles (he's an environmental lawyer), and more than anything, he's someone I never feel like I have to pretend with. He asked for my number, we had our first date a few days later, and ended up staying awake the entire night just talking about anything and everything, so we went ahead and got 5am pancakes and called it our second date. We've been together for a little over 3 years now, we've been moved in together for about 2, and while we've had the occasional fight or rough patch I can definitely say I love this man, and I plan to spend the rest of my life with him.

So, the big change.

About a year ago (~2 years since seeing my ex, my partner and I have lived together for about a year at this point), my partner and I are having a night in, and there's a knock at the door. It's my ex, looking absolutely ragged, holding a 15 month old baby. As in, a baby who was conceived 24 months before then. Yep, it's pretty much what you're guessing. I let them both in, we had a sit down in the kitchen, and he told me everything he'd been doing in the past 2 years in between me cussing him out for keeping it all from me in the first place. I really do want to keep this as short as possible, so to give you the super condensed version:

She's my daughter, he's completely sure about that, there's no one else he's been with the math is even close to correct for

The second he found out he was pregnant, he more or less panicked. He's got a whole Thing about feeling like he's irresponsible/not a "real" adult, and this really set him off, so telling me felt like "admitting to fucking both our lives up" at the time. His OB/GYN said some pretty awful shit to him about not being more careful as a trans man too, which just made it all even worse

Because of all that, he'd genuinely planned to just never tell me I have a daughter & raise her completely on his own, but a few things compounded to force his hand:

The birth was really rough on him, and his recovery was slow enough he was having trouble going back to work, to the point where money was getting tight

On top of that, our daughter has celiac disease, and between paying out of pocket for blood tests & spending more on baby food she's safe to eat, things got desperate enough he went and took out a really dodgy loan from a scummy payday company

He was at our door because all of this had finally spiraled to a point where he'd lost his apartment, they'd been sleeping in his car for about a week, and he couldn't think of anything else to do

I think I was probably feeling every human emotion in existence at the same time through all of this, but the thing I remember most from the whole conversation was the way my partner kept drifting right back to the baby, and the soft way he looked at her. We put my ex & daughter up in a hotel room for the night and told him we needed to talk, and we'd discuss our options in the morning, but I think even then I kind of knew what our answer was going to be.

Sure enough, for the last year and a half we've been co-parenting our little girl, all three of us. We didn't want to juggle who's got her, or force my ex to find a place to stay, so we've turned my partner's home office into our daughter's room, and redid most of the downstairs layout so my ex could move into an actual bedroom, rather than just sleep on our pullout couch in perpetuity. We finally succeeded in convincing him that rest and recovery was more important than trying to contribute to the house finances right away, and it's been magical watching all that stress and terror slowly fall off him. It's like he's a little more alive again every time I look.

Which is where my question comes in.

I'd like to restate, I love my partner 100%. None of this changes that whatsoever. If I ask, and he says no, that will be the end of the discussion for me completely. But I have eyes. My ex is, objectively, a very attractive man. I know we work well together, and I have to admit I'm very curious to see where that same chemistry could lead now that he's not on the other side of the country half the time. I've also been noticing these little moments between him and my partner. Nothing I'd consider crossing a line, but I've caught my partner checking my ex out several times, as well as vice versa, and they get along remarkably well. Sometimes I'll go to enter a room, and see them both sitting there laughing and chatting and playing with our baby, and I'll just hang back to watch because it makes me so happy.

Add to all that, we're pretty deeply ingrained in each other's lives now. My partner and I don't often go out on dates alone anymore, but the last few times we did it felt as if my ex was missing from the table. We watched a movie together last night, and my ex sat in the middle of us with his feet in my partner's lap and his head on my chest, and it felt just as natural as my arm on my partner's shoulder. It's not about just having sex with him, and it's not that I'd want to invite any old person into our relationship. I know we already all love each other, and I think there's potential for that to become romantic between the two of us and my ex.

It just feels as though we're all holding our breath, waiting for someone else to say it first. My ex certainly isn't going to bring it up when he's living rent free in "our" home (it's his home too, but he doesn't seem to see it like that yet). My partner grew up sheltered enough that I'm not sure he's ever heard of polyamory at all, so he's not going to bring it up. That just leaves me.

My problem is, if I'm wrong about what I think I'm seeing, or if I bring it up the wrong way, I can't take it back. I don't want my partner to feel insecure or betrayed, I don't want my ex to feel pressured or put on the spot, and I definitely don't want my daughter to lose any of us, which I know could happen if we aren't all on the same page. Or worse, if we do all date and it goes badly.

Should I just keep this whole thing secret? Is that even worse? Would I be the asshole for opening this can of worms on everyone else?

Help!

[purpurussy]

what is all of this like for post-hiatus phannies?

I've been trying to figure out how to phrase this for a minute. The most obvious comparison would be that it's like starting a TV show 10 seasons in, but that doesn't come remotely close to the amount of required reading necessary to understand even 5% of the references. This has not been a problem for me, as I love nothing more than a good all-consuming hyperfixation rabbit hole, but something I'm realizing is that you really just had to be there to fully Understand.

I got into d&p properly in December of 2023, when gamingmas appealed to my emotionally curious nature and then gave me some kind of irreversible brain damage which I'm still trying to process. Since then I've been consuming their back catalogue as though it's laced with cocaine, and obsessively lurking on phannie tumblr until I finally made this blog a few weeks ago.

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I actually watched Dan's videos for a little while back in roughly 2013/2014, but something about his content back then just wasn't working for me like it does now (I have such a clear memory of watching Reasons Why Dan’s A Fail and thinking "aw man why does this cute little twink hate himself so much 😔" and then going back to watching Jenna Marbles lmao. Funnily enough it did make me change my negative self-talk a little bit). I was very much a brief casual viewer who went off them pretty much after watching a few videos, and after that I was sort of vaguely aware of them as the cultural icons of the 2010s that they were, but I wasn't keeping up with them at all. 

I don't even remember BIG coming out, which is insane because I've always been extremely chronically online and it definitely broke containment as a cultural moment (although I think I was trying to minimize my social media use at that point in my life, so maybe that's why it went over my head). I feel like I must have heard something about it at the time, though, because I knew they were gay when I started watching them last year. What's really strange is that a lot of this stuff is kinda timeless to me. I don't remember it happening 5, 10 or 15 years ago - I just witnessed it very recently. For a lot of you guys, BIG happened 5 years ago, but I just watched it for the first time a few months ago. At the same time, in my mind they've just always been gay, since I wasn't in the trenches of the unhinged online culture surrounding them in the early/mid 2010s. It's so confusing to balance my weird temporal perception of these events with the impressions that I get from you guys. Oftentimes I have to judge roughly when something would have happened based on their appearances - it's not actually a *memory* for me, like it is for you. I absolutely love the dynamic and branding they have now, and the deep dives into their past are more of a curious exploration of how they got here, rather than actually nostalgic (or, I suppose, mildly traumatic) for me. It’s still very interesting and compelling to me, but because I love the current iteration of Dan and Phil, not because I’m emotionally invested in who they used to be. 

Sometimes I’ll be aware that an event happened, but I won’t realize how monumental it was until I see people talking about it (I hate to say it but I genuinely don't fully understand why the BONCAs thing was so earth-shattering, but like I said, I've always lived in a post-BIG universe, and I think you just had to be there). There are also plenty of references to stuff that's just been lost to time, which I have to piece together with context clues, as well as the more unhinged demonic stuff that I just don't have any interest in exploring whatsoever (I think I might have watched the v-day video if I'd been there when it leaked and I was a stupid teenager, but at this point, I don't even feel any kind of morbid curiosity for it. I just feel really bad for them that it got leaked. Plus, unfortunately, I think I've learned all I need to know about it through internet osmosis here). I feel like a lot of these events have a real emotional meaning for you guys, when to me, they're just interesting/funny/insane anecdotes which give some context to everything. Some of the shit that you guys lived through back then is absolutely wild, and I love and appreciate all of you for meticulously archiving and documenting everything and for being so willing to answer the same questions over and over again! Otherwise I feel like I wouldn't be able to really be part of this community, and posting my silly little memes on this blog is so fucking fun. So thank you all for that.

It seems like this is one of the most ride-or-die fanbases I've ever seen. The fact that they could invent the concept of YouTubers doing world tours, successfully execute that multiple times, branch out into several other ventures, come out as gay not fully knowing how that would affect their careers, disappear for several years and then come back knowing that there would be a solid audience waiting for them even after their virality had died down, drop merch every 3 seconds - I don't know who else can really get away with that, for almost 15 years, in the extremely "live fast die young" culture of internet fame. And I think it's in no small part because you all have chronic "unconditionally supporting dan and phil" disease. (While we’re on the topic, I feel very lucky to have missed the hiatus era. There's kind of a compression in the timeline for me between the gaming channel going dark and Dan starting his WAD tour, where it's like that time just doesn't exist in the Dan and Phil cinematic universe for me. It took me a while to realize how insane it must have been when they came back in full force, I can't even imagine how that must have felt.)

Of course, there's a caveat in that I'm saying this only really knowing about the tip of the demon iceberg. I’m aware of people engaging in behaviours such as doxxing them, outing them and stalking their families, which is horrifying in and of itself, but I don’t know how long it went on for or how many people were involved. I think people are generally pretty well-behaved at this point, and most of the drama seems to be between different schools of thought within the fanbase itself. I assume a big part of the reason for that is people's varying degrees of involvement in (and remaining notion of guilt for) the boundary-crossing behaviour from the old days. Living with the spectre of this insanity is kind of strange - it makes me feel nervous sometimes that I’m gonna accidentally say something that hits a nerve, or cross a line I didn’t know existed, because there’s all this history that I don’t fully understand, beyond just the normal unwritten rules for interacting with fan spaces online. 

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The topic that got me writing this in the first place was the orange heart incident, and everyone’s subsequent meltdown. For me, the excitement in them soft/hard/semi launching is more about me just getting excited about any open, proud expression of queer joy - it heals something inside me every time I hear a man referring to his husband or a woman referring to her wife (excuse the gendered terms, ykwim. gay shit). It's just that sentiment, combined with the fact that I'm parasocially invested in them: I'd love to see that energy from my fave little guys who live inside my computer. I am basically rooting for them to become more comfortable with just talking about gay stuff more openly and candidly, and I guess that would require a bit of a hard launch, although I can understand that they don't want to potentially open the door to excessive questioning regarding their relationship. I feel like it ✨hits different✨ for people who watched them for years before they came out. Like, you guys are rooting for people who you watched in real time struggling with their identities and internalized homophobia for years and years, while to me, they’re just some guys who I’m a fan of. Sometimes I get caught up in the emotional frenzy of their hard-launch breadcrumbs even though I don’t feel quite as insane about it as you guys (I said in some tags a few days ago that it’s like the base instinct to turn around and start running if you see a crowd of people running towards you and screaming in terror, even if you have no idea what’s going on). Anyway, I would love to see them being more gooey with each other, and I am gobbling up the breadcrumbs they're feeding us atm, because I love seeing gay people expressing gay love with no shame 🧡 

I think my perception of them as a couple, or of their sexualities independently, is just kind of an extension of everything Dan said in BIG. I really have no doubt that they're a couple, and I don't feel any kind of weird Catholic guilt in saying that, since I neither witnessed nor participated in the insanity back then. I interpreted (I'm paraphrasing) "obviously we were more than friends, but it was more than just romantic, we're like, actual soulmates" followed by "as for the situation now? we're private people and we'd like to keep that part of our lives private" as him essentially saying that obviously they're a couple, but that their relationship is not part of the Dan And Phil™ Brand. The brand is 2 guys who have great chemistry doing comedy together (5 feet apart even though clearly they are gay and in love). And I think that's a completely healthy decision to make, even irrespective of their history. I think a hard launch would be subtle, and it wouldn’t realistically change the nature of their content that much. 

With that being said, to me, it seems slightly wild for people to adamantly insist they're not a couple, or that it’s “invasive” to assume that they are one (not that that really applies to anyone here, but elsewhere on the internet). If they were a straight man and a straight woman, and there wasn't a huge chunk of people on the internet struggling with this oddly conditioned aversion to seeing them as a couple, then nobody on earth would be insisting that it's weird to assume they're together. Dan confirmed that they became romantically involved around the time they met, and building a forever home with your ex is crazy, that's all there is to it.

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This is kind of a messy stream of thoughts (it ended up sort of becoming 2 essays for the price of 1) and I don't really know where I was going with it. In conclusion I think that day 1 phannies are braver than any US marine and you have all suffered more than Jesus on the cross, and I'm extremely thankful that I get to reap the rewards of your labour now without having lived through the dark ages myself. I also think some of you are holding onto a bit of unnecessary guilt for dumb shit you said on the internet when you were a kid. And Dan and Phil are gay and I love them and I reeeeaaaallllyyy want them to do a podcast so bad because this is all conjecture and I would parasocially love to hear their actual thoughts on it

[zuzsenpai]

mental health update

I've been having a pretty shit year as far as mental health goes. I mean, I had an actual mental health crisis in February that was one of the scariest times in my life. It was all because I was trying to taper off a psych med and apparently that was a BAD idea.

In the months that followed, I was able to avoid a bad depression spiral thanks to getting back on that particular med. But I've been getting more and more exhausted, and when I have anxiety, I have it REAL bad. Like shaking and chest pain bad. Thought I had covid and nearly passed out waiting the 15 minutes for the test results. Zuko was sick and had surgery and I was in a constant state of misery and shaking and dizziness. I know I should probably get like... Xanax or something for this. Maybe I will in the future.

Anyway, my focus is almost non-existent these days. During and after Zuko's health crisis last month, I have been at a point where my brain just can't move. I think I've spent the last 30 days scrolling tumblr because that and projects at work (the ones with deadlines) are the only things I can actually get my brain to do.

I want to work on fanfic. So I open a project, but then am immediately like "no I can't get myself to mentally be on the same page as this project". I think about a different project and my chest feels tight because I both want to do it and don't want to do it. It's painful. I accomplish nothing. I want to play a game or watch a show but the thought of putting effort into those things destroys my ability to do them. I just sit and continue scrolling tumblr. I long for conversation but when I'm actually conversing with someone, I can only manage a few words and I hate myself for it. I long for validation or praise on past projects to help motivate me into writing fanfic again, but I know that's selfish and I know it doesn't motivate shit.

This is where I am right now. I don't know how to have fun or relax. I don't know how to focus on anything. I don't know how to want to focus on anything. I waste entire days fretting about doing nothing.

I've also never been more exhausted in my life. I got bloodwork done on vitamin D, B12, iron, and thyroid. All are within normal range. So I'm getting a consultation with a sleep doctor (I get about 5% deep sleep per night, which is NOT good). We'll see how that goes.

I'm starting an exercise routine soon. I'm hoping that does something helpful. But I keep pushing the date back in my mind like "let's start exercising next week"... so you can imagine how that's going.

[canyoufucksoniccharacters]

It's time.

Alright, this is gonna be a long one. Not only am I covering the canon, mainline game Sonic, but his offshoots as well. Specifically, I will be covering Sonic in the mainline games, the Paramount movie version, Sonic Prime, and a tiiiiiiny tiny little itty bit of Archie. IDW is, from what has been implied as of the past about year and a half, canon; and it will be treated as such (with some caution, of course.), so it's not going to be handled separately.

Let's do this.

Alright, let's start as early as absolutely possible. There have been several, several statements regarding Sonic's age; the earliest of which was courtesy of our good old friends over at...

There would be a certain (mildly loud) funny video here, but Tumblr's weird barely present copyright protection probably kicked in. Anyways...

In the Sonic The Hedgehog cartoon, also known as SatAM, we get 2 tidbits of information. In the 2-part special called Blast From The Past, we see that Sonic and Sally are about the same age, both being kids of just about equal maturity. Later, in episode 24, Sally states that her age is 16. So, far as we could tell, Sonic was 16, or around that range. Now, we know that these cartoons aren't canon, but they definitely did have an influence over the canon of the series. Fun fact for you, Sonic's love of chili dogs was made up by the cartoons, and later adopted during the modern era by the games. Ain't that neat?

Chili dog related tangent aside, this was the only source we had for Sonic's age at that point. I've seen some say that he was stated to be 15 in the manual for Sonic 2, but upon trying to verify that claim I came empty-handed. The manual does mention Tails being 8, but no mention of Sonic's age as far as I could tell; and the same goes for every other Classic Series game. Except for...

Sonic Jam, the Sonic game absolutely no one cares about! In part because it's not much more than a game compilation and tech demo that served as the stepping stone for Sonic Adventure 1. Sonic Jam includes profiles for Sonic, Tails, Knuckles and Eggman. This is in both the Japanese and English version, and both contain ages for the characters! Tails is listed as 8, Knuckles as 15, and Eggman as "??" or Unknown, in the case of the English version.

This brings us to Sonic, who I will be using the Japanese profile for.

The part that says "年令" translates to "Age". So, here it says that Sonic ranges between 15 and 16... Whatever that means. In the English version, it just says 15. Either way, all these make sense for these games. Sonic's characterization back in the day was all in on the rebellious teenager angle, an effort to give him an air of edge and coolness that other platforming mascots didn't have, which did admittedly win people over during the heat of the console wars! Sonic was absolutely huge when the series was new, to a degree that other mascots just couldn't match up to. Of course, that dropped off over time, but that's a discussion for another day, and not on this blog. This blog is about gay sex, not the videogame industry.

So, Sonic is either 15 or 16, most likely 15. All is good here, everything lines up, other than maybe the fact that Amy was listed as 8 in the Sonic CD manual, but that's probably fine considering back then her crush on Sonic was treated as a one-sided admirer type thing, rather than an actual romantic interest (That was usually reserved for Sally in media that actually cared about that kinda thing, anyways.)

So, fast forward to the Dreamcast; Sonic gets a redesign! Longer limbs, green eyes, and overall less chibi-like and seemingly more mature appearance. So, you would assume he's older, right? After all, him an everyone else around him got the same treatment, except for Eggman who... Seemingly just became a smidge more realistic. A smidge, anyways. You can only be so realistic being shaped like Gru.

Well... Yeah! It would look like it, since no further statements about his age were made, and in the Archie comics, they actually aged him up a year to justify his change in design. Archie isn't canon, obviously, but it shows the direction that was taken; as the players aged, so did Sonic, no matter how much people got up in arms about the green eyes for some strange reason.

... And then Sonic Heroes came along.

Perfectly fine game, mind you! One of the more polarizing ones, sure, and some of the writing could have been a smidge better (specially on Amy's side of things), but overall not really anything egregious. But for our sake... This hellspawn was born.

Ah, the Sonic Heroes US manual. The root cause of incredibly stupid Sonic shipping discourse; as well as the really, really inaccurate Sonic Channel ages.

All vitriol aside, let's look at what it has to say about our blue blur.

... 15? Really? When our previous estimate was also 15-16? Are you actually telling me Sonic 1 to Heroes all happened within less than a year? Amy got aged up from 8 to 12, which... Either age would be a bit concerning considering they're still pushing the whole romantic interest thing, one-sided as it may still be. That aside, it makes no logistical sense for Sonic to still be 15 after he's literally physically shown to be older.

On top of that, this same manual ages Espio down from 17 (In the Chaotix manual) to 16, and Vector up from 16 to 20. Vector I can believe, but uh. Aging down isn't exactly a thing that most people do.

What's worse, this age was then listed in the official Sonic Channel website... Even after they made a game where the first thing you see is Sonic celebrating his birthday. Meaning he had to have been 14 before that game to stay 15, which is contradictory to say the least. Additionally, there's a potential time gap of 5 months between SA2 and Heroes, only ever referenced in the Playstation 3 PSN release of Sonic Heroes.

This age was never once modified, even after Sonic Forces' 6 month timeskip, meaning Sonic had a birthday party, was locked up for 6 months, and somehow didn't age a year during all that. Nor after the several infrastructure-demolishing incidents such as an entire city being flooded and wrecked, the planet being shattered into pieces, among others.

And you wanna know something funny? In Sonic Generations, Classic Sonic is explicitly stated to be Sonic from the past, which checks out considering how he behaves less maturely and is proportionally much smaller. And then in 2015, the Classic Sonic style guide comes out.

15.

15.

15.

Somehow. Some. Fucking. How. Classic Sonic is listed as 15... While Modern Sonic is listed as 15 too. Oh, Amy is also listed as 12, by the way. Despite that being her (ALLEGED) age in Sonic Heroes.

Unless they're from different universes or something, there's no way-

OH FOR FUCK'S SAKE

Yeah, so, Sonic Forces released 2 years after that guide. And it tried, emphasis on tried, to retcon Classic Sonic into being an entirely separate character. This was, however, later undone by Sonic Origins both re-establishing the Classic games as taking place in the past, on top of a TailsTube episode saying as such; that Classic Sonic is, indeed, from the past. It's even stated that Modern Sonic is who Classic Sonic grew up to be!

IDW doesn't make our job any easier, either. This is information from when the Tangle & Whisper story was ongoing;

However... I'd take it with a grain of salt, as it's from before IDW was considered canon, and back when Sega was much more strict on the mandates and what they did and didn't allow in Sonic media. Plus, this was still the age listed on Sonic Channel, before they removed it.

Oh yeah, that. Why don't we talk about that?

On October of 2022, all the ages on Sonic Channel were removed.

This... Was a good move. SonAmy is still being pushed ever so very slightly, with Amy's crush still being present in a recent short even if she's much more mature about it now, which would make their age difference less than ideal. On top of that, the ages really just didn't line up chronologically speaking.

So, where does that leave us now?

In this interview, Takashi Iizuka is asked about Sonic's age; to which he responds that "He's a teenager."

"Teenager" is a bit of a loose definition, probably on purpose. Generally speaking, the range for teenager ranges from anywhere to 13-19, to 13-21 depending on who you ask. Some people make the cutoff at 18, though that's almost never done when it comes to scientific material.

So, let's recap. Sonic is still considered a teenager, but he's always been considered one, all the way back from the Classic series. So, we can safely assume Classic isn't 15; either that, or he was, and the modern series takes place during anywhere from 2-6 years, which I could believe. Either way, he's at minimum about 13-14, as he's a younger version of Sonic who hasn't hit a growth spurt yet.

Then, we have anywhere from 1 to 2 canon birthdays for Sonic, depending on whether you count Runners as canon or not (which I would admittedly not at all fault you for not considering it canon, considering it's a mobile game; and a discontinued one at that), as well as a 6-month timeskip during Forces, potential 5-month timeskip during Heroes (which isn't the most unbelievable proposition or anything, considering it would be a bit weird if Shadow was presumed dead only to show back up like a week later), and a bunch of events that have caused severe structural damage to key locations in the world, namely during Sonic Unleashed and Sonic Adventure 1 as the 2 biggest examples. Oh, and Sonic Forces throwing absolutely everything into disarray on a seemingly global scale, which would take quite a bit of time to be fixed, specially considering that's still an ongoing process in IDW.

On top of all this, it's outright shown that these things don't just happen every week or whatever, things happen off-screen, characters get time off to do their own stuff, and from the looks of it, Murder Of Sonic The Hedgehog is canon, as nothing there conflicts with canon and it's officially endorsed. Which means WE HAVE YET ANOTHER FUCKING BIRTHDAY PARTY, FOR AMY THIS TIME.

Further proving the point i just stated, let's look at the geographical Prison Island. This is what it looks like in Sonic Adventure 2.

A big, mechanical prison complex made out of nothing but cold hard metal. Filled with robots, not a single trace of nature in sight. Said nature however is not too far from these military bases, though! These forests are also on the island.

So, these are the two main parts of Prison Island. Abundant nature, and military facilities. There's very little difference once the story progresses further, though, as the island...

Fucking explodes. (Clip from Sonic Adventure 2 Real-Time Fandub. Credit to SnapCube.)

So, why is this relevant? Well, we revisit this location in Shadow The Hedgehog! The game, not the guy.

As we can see, there is no longer any difference between nature and construct. The base has been completely abandoned, and overtaken by the nearby forests, with greenery sprouting all over it. Now, it's not impossible that plant life in the Sonic series grows a bit faster than real plants, but methinks that an entire military base doesn't get overtaken by nature this hard within a month. There's entire new trees, grass and plants growing all over what was previously pavement, not even the walls are safe! Every single area is either covered in toxic waste, plant life, or both. Plant life that, again, needs time to grow. So there's likely a pretty big chunk of time between Sonic Adventure 2 and Shadow The Hedgehog, even though they're only separated by 1 game, Sonic Heroes.

Add that to the many many reasons these things can't just happen on a week by week basis! On to my next point...

No, proportions don't really mean anything in terms of age. Sure, Vanilla is quite big, and so are the conductor and his wife, but Rouge is undoubtedly an adult and her proportions are more or less the same as everyone else. So all they help distinguish is between children (Tails, Cream) and non-children. In this exact screenshot we see that Vanilla is much taller than rouge, almost being at eye level with each other despite Rouge sitting on an elevated surface, while Vanilla is standing. This height difference is also present in the games, although we rarely get to see them next to each other.

So, all this taken into account, the fact Sonic has been a teenager since the Classic series, the fact there's been a few timeskips and at least 2 birthdays, several events that would need some time to recover from, specially with a still-ongoing recovery process after Forces, the fact Elise is allegedly 17 in 06 (which would make her whole romantic subplot with Sonic even more uncomfortable than it already is by default if he was any younger than say, idk about 16 years old at the least), among many other reasons that I may have forgotten to mention, the chances of Sonic being 15, hell, even 16 are very, very slim. At the very least, he's got to be about 17, and he could honestly be as old as 19 or 20 (depending on whether Iizuka meant he's of adolescent age or a teenager).

So, if you do still view Sonic as a minor, that's perfectly fine, and honestly believable; but with all these facts stacked up, as time goes on, it will be less and less likely that him being underage will be a real possibility. This isn't the Pokemon anime. There's actual structure, lore, and a proper sense of scale; and something like Sonic's age being frozen at 15-16 just wouldn't make any sense.

All this to say, Sonic is, most likely, no longer a minor. There's some wiggle room where he could be one, but 18-19 is the most likely option, specially considering how Frontiers was comfortable with pitching his voice down. Yes, it was for the sake of the game's tone, but Tails's voice for example didn't have that much of a difference to it, because he's a child and it would be weird for a character to sound so much older than they actually are- and this goes for Sonic too.

So, in conclusion, after extensive analysis and every source I could find for Sonic's age taken into account;

You can, most likely, fuck Sonic The Hedgehog.

...

BUT IT'S NOT OVER YET.

We need to take both his other iterations into consideration, as well as address characters whose fuckability status depends on him. First, the alternative versions.

Movie Sonic

This one's a kid. On top of acting much more immature and inexperienced, outright described as irresponsible- hell, Tom even says "Whether you wanna hear this or not, you're still just a kid. You've got some more growing up to do before you're ready to be the big hero". He acts like a kid, is referred to as a kid, and hell, it makes sense, the movies so far have adapted Sonic 1-3&K, the games where Sonic was still just starting out his adventures.

Prime Sonic

This one's... More uncertain. He's definitely quite immature and inexperienced; though he feels more... Reckless than anything else. More of an attitude problem than an age problem, really, considering how Amy and Shadow act, two characters who should be about the same age as him, but that act much more maturely for the most part.

This one's pretty up in the air, I'd say, considering how Prime seems to be comfortable having their own versions of the cast (going by how different Shadow seems to be and how he has seemingly no attachment to Rouge, who is one of the people he trusts the most in canon).

Oh yeah, I haven't watched season 3 yet, but I doubt it changes much of anything about this judgement.

THE SONIC-DEPENDENT ONES

THE ROBOT SONICS

While they're all likely able to consent (... Okay, Mecha MK. 1 is a bit more dubious on whether it's sapient), it would probably be unethical to fuck something that's made to look like someone who's a minor. While they were made when Sonic was definitely a minor, he isn't one anymore, and the resemblance is still there to pretty much the exact same degree, so there's really no ambiguity here.

You can fuck them. Go ham, robot-fuckers.

SCOURGE

Look, we're not covering the mess that Archie can be. But from what I gather, Sonic is, at most, 17 pre-SGW. And this is just an alternate version of that Sonic, who likely didn't go through all the uber weird shit that makes Archie Sonic's age a nightmare to deal with. So, no, unfortunately for a lot of you, you probably can't fuck Scourge. Fortunately, though...

SURGE

Surge's age is, according to this post by IDW artist and writer Evan Stanley, around Sonic's age. So, what goes for the hedgehog goes for the Tenrec, you can most likely fuck her. Go ham.

... Elise?

She was 17 during 06, and some time has passed since then, and it would be weird if she had any bigger of an age gap with Sonic, plus plenty of time has passed since 06, so... I guess you can? I don't see why you would, but power to you, I suppose. Can't judge.

MIGHTY AND RAY

These two have been here since SegaSonic The Hedgehog in the arcades, which happens even before Sonic 2 does! Ray is never once really implied to be young, no matter how much he may seem like Mighty's Tails equivalent (Which... He's not meant to be. He was made before Tails.), and he's most likely about even with Mighty, who is most likely the same age as Sonic, seeing how they're meant to be parallels (down to Sonic's sprites being rehashed for his sprites in Chaotix), and the Japanese manual for Knuckles' Chaotix listing him as 16.

They're here mostly because Mighty is a partial Sonic counterpart, and Ray tends to be anywhere that Mighty goes these days, so they might as well be treated as a package deal.

So, yes, you can most likely fuck them... Even if we have absolutely no idea what their modern versions look like. Seriously, where the hell have they been? At least we know they're fine, considering it's been stated that they're off on their own adventures these days.

Aaaand... That's it! That's all the Sonic-dependent characters I could think of, at least ones that I think don't really merit their own posts. TL;DR

Metal Sonic, Mecha Sonic, etc: Fuckable Scourge: Unfuckable Surge: Fuckable Elise: Fuckable Mighty: Fuckable Ray: Fuckable

The "Fuckable" marks should go with an asterisk, as Sonic's status is "Most Likely Fuckable", but still.

Phew. Finally done. I've spent pretty much all goddamn day writing this. Hopefully this is useful for someone. Hopefully. God knows it'll make my job easier.

I'll just go write the alt text and go eat something, this took... Way longer than I'd like to admit. See you when the post goes up.

Go ham, you beautiful horny bastards.

Edit: Future OP here! I had to remake this post because the DIC bit earlier somehow triggered some weird copyright stuff on Tumblr, basically hiding the post from anyone who isn't directly looking at the blog. In the meantime, I added that bit about Prison Island to further add to his potential fuckability. So his margin for being a minor is even smaller now! How fun! Anyways, now I'll be seeing myself out for the time being. Thanks, and have fun.

[cheesybadgers]

Narcos Fic: Old Habits Die Hard (Chap. 24)

Chapter 1, Chapter 2, Chapter 3, Chapter 4, Chapter 5, Chapter 6, Chapter 7, Chapter 8, Chapter 9, Chapter 10, Chapter 11, Chapter 12, Chapter 13, Chapter 14, Chapter 15, Chapter 16, Chapter 17, Chapter 18, Chapter 19, Chapter 20, Chapter 21, Chapter 22, Chapter 23

Read on AO3

Masterlist

Pairing: Javier Peña x Horacio Carrillo

Words: 3,440

Summary: It's been 15 years since Horacio and Javier brought down Gacha in Tolú, and now they're back where their story began.

Warnings: 18+ ONLY. Brief allusions to period-typical prejudices/politics/legislation, very brief sexual references, smoking, swearing, all the fluff.

Notes: Well....I feel like I should post this with a fanfare or something (just imagine there's one playing), but oh boy, oh man, oh god. I did it. I flipping did it 😭 It's only taken 36 months, copious amounts of blood, sweat and tears, a deranged amount of research, the last shred of my sanity, and probably a fair amount of back/neck pain from sitting at my laptop for too long to get here. But hey, if I don't write a self-indulgent novel-length fix-it fic for a criminally underrated rarepair from a defunct TV show, WHO WILL, I ASK THEE? 😂

I can't fully explain the journey this fic has taken me and my writing on, or the deep love I have in my heart for this ship and the OHDH universe that has lived constantly in my head these last few years. Even when I'm not actively writing, so many things remind me of these two everywhere I go. They got me through the darkest days of the pandemic and somehow became my comfort ship, despite er, certain canon events we don't talk about in this house.

Anyway, I think you've all heard quite enough from me for the time being. So, I will just say thank you so, so, so much to anyone who has read, commented, kudosed, reblogged, liked, sent me messages, made me things, suggested music recs, generally been incredibly supportive and kind ❤️

And thank you to anyone who may stumble across this fic in future. Please never be afraid to leave a comment, even if you're reading several years down the line, I will always love to hear from people about this story.

There will also be some moodboards and playlists posted on my Tumblr at some point (and *maybe* some new - much shorter lol - fics eventually) once I've caught my breath back a bit.

For the final time (unless I randomly think of anything I've forgotten, which is more than likely lol), I’ve also added to my OHDH trivia post to cover this chapter if anyone is interested.

Chapter 24: Suerte (Epilogue)

Early evening rays painted the pastel horizon, their last act of the day transforming the shimmering ocean into an inky palate of fuchsia, violet and saffron, the golden sands at the shore still warm to the touch hours past dusk.

Come the weekend, Colombians would travel far and wide to descend on the many beaches, bars and restaurants that dotted the waterfront. Or if they were feeling adventurous, they would birdwatch, dive off the Islas de San Bernardo, or canoe amongst the mangroves.

But it was mid-week and mid-December – when most locals were at work and school or preparing for Christmas. So, for now, Horacio and Javier had the place to themselves.

There was the added bonus of the coastline turning into a dense forest of palm trees just along from their beach house, civilisation a mile or so away on either side of them, so even at peak times, they remained secluded. It had become a daily ritual to luxuriate in the peace and quiet; a pre-dinner swim with no trunks required followed by entwined limbs and sand in their hair as the sun went down.

Today was no exception, the gentle lapping of the waves around them and their shallow breaths the only sounds to be heard, the taste of salt and scent of sun lotion heavy in the air and on their skin as Horacio rocked into Javier, slow and deep, their chests and foreheads drawn together.

It was almost dark when Javier switched on the shower taps, cascading soothing jets over his head, neck and shoulders. As he soaked his hair, the lights from inside the beach house sprung to life, illuminating the outdoor bathroom with an ambient glow. It was a feature of the premium accommodation they had splashed out on, a rare treat away for a special occasion.

The outside space was a mix of wood, tiles and natural stone for the walls and floors, encased by tall plants and trees for extra privacy. A double shower stood on a platform at the end of a walkway, with a large hot tub branching off in the other direction. On their first night here, they had opted for the tub, surrounding it with candles as a belated ode to Día de las Velitas, lost in each other beneath the bubbles and the stars.

A sturdy embrace enveloped Javier from behind, a position they had found themselves in every morning by the shore before breakfast, looking out to a tranquil sea and a kaleidoscopic sky. The day jobs kept them both on their feet and in good shape, although there was more softness around their stomachs, and Javier was stockier than in his younger years. But his upper body was even broader with muscle now.

He was no gym fiend, but he had accompanied Horacio in some of his strengthening training, wanting to keep his stamina up as much as possible. Not just for the obvious but because he was sometimes required to carry the heavier supplies at work and didn’t want to be shown up in front of his largely youthful team.

It was a welcome development to Horacio, whatever the reason. Not that he ever had any complaints before, but watching Javier blossom as he aged was a wonder to behold. Not to mention, there was more of him to enjoy now.

As for Horacio, aside from the sloping curve of his midriff, he was sheer jaguar strength. Not only in the noticeable places, but his core muscles were in peak condition, the daily horse riding improving his posture and taking him back to the drill commands of his cadet years. His skin was more weathered, and his days of being meticulously cleanly shaven at all times were long gone. But Javier assured him – a lot – the ruggedness was part of the appeal.

Javier wasn’t one to talk either, stubble being a more regular feature alongside his moustache nowadays. But that was mainly due to lack of time in his busy schedule rather than preference, so it wasn’t unheard of for Horacio to do the honours for him. For some reason, Horacio delicately scraping a razor blade across his jaw from the comfort of his lap was far more appealing to Javier than doing it himself in front of the bathroom mirror.

Their hair contained more grey patches, especially around the temples, which was easier to hide when they grew it longer. That wasn’t practical during the sweltering heat of a Texan summer, so they kept it shorter in the hotter months. But in the winter, they could run their fingers through choppy waves and coils of curls to their hearts’ content. And luckily for them, their anniversary fell in December.

“Can you believe it’s been 15 years to the day?” Horacio asked, scattering kisses across Javier’s back.

“This doesn’t even feel like the same fucking place, to be honest.”

“Tell me about it.”

Horacio let out a huff as flashbacks of leading his men on a fleet of raiding crafts towards Gacha’s hideout collided with memories from merely days ago of him and Javier island hopping in a hire boat along the same waters. They had taken a platter of fresh seafood and fruit, exploring the remotest beaches and lagoons, where their only company was the local wildlife.

He could still remember the sensation of the blood at his temple as he lay disorientated on the sand in the aftermath of the explosion, a stark contrast to dozing together under the shade of a palm tree or reading aloud to each other the words of Lorca, Gaitán Durán, Arbeláez, Neruda, Paz, Castellanos and Mistral.

“Although, I did notice signs for the barracks towards Coveñas when we were driving here,” Horacio added with a nostalgic smirk.

“Oh yeah? You didn’t want another night there for old times’ sake?” Javier tilted his head until he found Horacio’s lips with his teeth.

Horacio hummed and put up no resistance, his wet hands sailing with ease down Javier’s body, finding purchase at his hip bones. “It was tempting. But I figured you’d want to make the most of this before Christmas.”

“Damn right.”

They took turns massaging shampoo into each other’s scalps, lathering the suds through thick spirals, tenderly pulling at strands until they purred, thoroughly indulging in the sensation whilst they had the chance. And then they did it all again, rinsing off the soap, floating away on the meditative pressure of the faucet and their fingers.

“We could always see if Alejandra has more spa freebies if it gets too much, though,” Javier suggested through the haze of steam now cocooning them.

“I like your thinking.”

It had been a while since they last used such tickets, their previous visits not dissimilar to how their current vacation was playing out. But despite the chaos that would no doubt ensue, they were looking forward to catching up with Horacio’s side of the family. Between expanding businesses in Texas and Manizales and the oldest half of the brood living and working elsewhere now with the twins staying at home studying, they didn’t get to meet up as much as they would have liked.

However, Elena visited Laredo several times, swapping life stories and recipes with Chucho and joining Horacio and Javier in San Antonio one spring for the Fiesta. Her last holiday outside of Colombia had been before Alejandra and Horacio were born, so she was determined to take advantage of having family abroad before age finally caught up with her. There had even been discussions of a trip to Madrid if Horacio and Javier could arrange cover at work the following year.

“Pops is flying out on the 20th, right?”

“Yes. Marco and Raúl are covering the ranch and animals until your father’s back on the 28th. And Jorge is covering the farm until we’re home from Miami in the New Year.”

No one was keen to leave Luna, Sol and Leo, who had long since retired from ranch duties, but between work and Christmas commitments, Connie taking a full-time job in a different hospital, now Olivia was a teenager going on 30, and the earlier-than-expected arrival of Felipe’s and Juana’s second child – Óscar, a little brother to Claudia – New Year was the only time everyone’s schedules matched up.

These days, Luna, whose main residence was the cottage now, Sol and Leo spent most of their time nestled on furniture or looking for treats in the kitchen whenever food was prepared. However, Luna would sometimes still ride in the back of Horacio’s truck and keep him company in the lower fields.

Kira and Fuego had become old pros, showing their younger siblings, Cielo and Tierra, the ropes, not as replacements to the trio but as a new team with their own quirks and personalities. Thankfully, the dogs and Coco had taken well to the pair of barn cats, Churro and Tamale, who patrolled the outbuildings and dealt with any rodent intruders.

Meanwhile, Chucho showed few signs of slowing down, except one summer when he twisted an ankle, and even that was hard work to get him to rest. But he had been happy to step back from some of his more physically demanding responsibilities in recent years, trusting that the ranch and farm were in capable hands. With their expansion plans a resounding success – plus some new ones up their sleeves – he had become more involved in the business side of the operation alongside Miguel.

And, of course, he was always happy to offer Horacio advice whenever needed. But for the most part, he left him to it since Félix’s retirement, preferring to arrange for the guesthouses to be refurbished or to deliver fresh batches of cooking to aid workers and exhausted arrivals alike on the frontline of the border.

“Bet Jorge was as thrilled about that arrangement as my team.”

“Well, we can always delegate to our deputies whenever necessary. One of the perks of being promoted.”

It had taken Horacio five years under Félix’s watchful eye – and decades of experience – to be granted the title of farm manager. Then, Félix had retired the previous year, satisfied he had picked the right man as his successor and Jorge as deputy.

Horacio still had plenty to learn and likely always would with the constant conveyor belt of change to farming methods and technology that landed on his desk each month. However, there was a sense of familiarity with certain parts of the job, like the meetings, the paperwork, and the budget constraints. Except, this time, it all came without the funerals, the upper echelons of the CNP breathing down his neck, and the crushing weight of a country’s future on his shoulders.

“And a holiday on the Caribbean coast was necessary, was it?” Now that Javier’s hair was free from sand and shampoo, he turned to face Horacio, their lips almost touching.

Horacio nodded sagely and closed the gap. “A critical business need.”

------------------------------------------------------

Once dried off, they lay in a hammock in matching white towel robes under the thatched porch of their beach house with a perfect view of the sea, moon and stars.

“So, you like it here?” Horacio asked after a comfortable silence.

“It’s beautiful. I’m glad we came back – to see it how it’s meant to be.”

“Me too. Although, I fear violence will always be a parasite latched onto Colombia. Just when you think it’s gone from one place, it rears its head again in another. Or even the same place twice if you’re unlucky.”

Horacio remembered the stories he had heard from Trujillo in the last couple of years – particularly about Operation Orion. Officially, the incursion on Comuna 13 had been a success by the Colombian military against the likes of FARC. Unofficially, however, there were rumours of a leaked CIA report, disappeared individuals, and collusion between an Army General and none other than Don Berna’s subordinate. It was hard to keep faith that Medellín would ever be free from its past when history had such a predictable habit of repeating itself.

“I know. It feels like one step forward and two steps back in the States, too. Terrorism might be the new bogeyman, but re-branding to ICE and throwing a shitload of money at the DHS hasn’t stopped the drugs and the people finding their way over the border.”

Javier had heard directly from Steve about the shift in his job role since 9/11. Overnight, Steve’s whole department was removed from their current caseloads and signed up for every counter-terrorism and narco-terrorism course under the sun. It was now customary for DEA agents to be redeployed to the FBI as intelligence analysts if resources required. And if their eyes and ears were pulled away from the drug traffickers, it didn’t take a genius to figure out the consequences.

Meanwhile, in Texas, if anything, people only took graver risks in the wake of a beefed-up Border Patrol. Javier had spent a lot of the past year helping to set up new aid teams in Arizona and New Mexico, the inhospitable conditions of the desert not enough of a deterrent to stop families trying their luck or handing over their life savings to coyotes who didn’t care whether they made it across alive.

“But small things can add up to change. Bit by bit,” Javier added. “And at least they can’t arrest us for fucking in our own home anymore.”

“True. Not that the law stopped us before...” Horacio nuzzled against Javier’s neck before making a move to get up.

They may have joked in the here and now, but it wasn’t a change they took for granted. In fact, Luz and Carla had even persuaded Javier to attend a protest or two and pay bond and legal fees for those who had been arrested. After all, he’d had plenty of experience exchanging money for people’s freedom.

When news of the Supreme Court decision spread, it was another weight off their backs and one less reason to look over their shoulders, a chance to permanently put to bed memories of being spied on during such unguarded sacred moments. It was the final line to be drawn under those dark years, not to erase them because that was impossible. But it was, at least, closure.

Their cigarette was almost done, and Horacio had left the opened pack on the kitchen counter. Once retrieved, he took out another and leaned into Javier across the hammock, pressing the tip of his unlit cigarette against the lit one until it sparked.

“But you’re right,” Horacio continued, holding Javier’s gaze between exhaling a plume of smoke. He balanced on the edge of the hammock, just enough to stop it tipping sideways. “Things can change. But only if we want them to.” He perched their new cigarette between his lips as he reached into the pocket of his robe.

Their first cigarette was little more than a stub, so Javier stooped down to the ashtray on the floor to extinguish it. Once he sat up again, a small cubed box was presented into his spare hand.

Javier stared at the black box and blew out remnants of smoke, eyeing Horacio with an unreadable expression, an unspoken question and answer lingering between them and the mist of tobacco.

He prised open the box to reveal a ring of plain silver. Or, so he thought at first glance. But as he raised it towards the moon, the iridescent light caught on the inner band to reveal an inscription.

Suerte que encontré a mi media naranja.

(Lucky that I found my soulmate.)

“Fuck, Horacio…” Javier’s voice was strained, and his words came out as little more than a whisper. He held the ring between his thumb and forefinger, letting the ethereal reflection from above capture each word.

Horacio watched every shift in Javier’s face with bated breath and a dry throat, his limbs lead and weightless all at once.

“The world’s changing around us,” Horacio said at last; swallowing his nerves and summoning his courage. “But no matter what the law or courts say in any state or country, this can mean whatever we want it to mean.”

Javier’s jaw worked back and forth, his teeth clamping down on the inside of his cheeks. But it was no use, and he let out a trembling scoff, an attempt to distract from the shining pupils he finally confronted Horacio with.

And then a broad smile crept across Javier’s features, his palm connecting with Horacio’s cheek before he plucked the cigarette from his fingers and took a drag. “Pass me my jeans.”

It took Horacio a moment to process Javier’s request. Of all the responses he had prepared for – the good and the bad – that hadn’t been on his list, funnily enough. With narrowed eyes and pursed lips, he complied and fetched the jeans that had been flung over a sun lounger when they stripped off to swim earlier. Apparently, regardless of how humid the climate in Tolú became, denim remained a reliable staple of Javier’s wardrobe.

“Check my left pocket.”

Whatever Javier was up to, Horacio was torn between intrigue and irritation at Javier’s temerity to issue orders despite leaving him hanging. But he did as he was told, and in an instant, everything made sense.

“I can always take it back if you’d prefer…”

But Horacio was already opening the near-identical box, and any teasing faded to white noise as he came face-to-face with the gold equivalent of his own proposal.

“Hold it up to the light.”

The night sky was brighter now, making it easier for the inscription to be revealed.

Mi amor, mi vida, mi hogar, mi vaquero. Siempre tuyo.

(My love, my life, my home, my cowboy. Yours always.)

It was Javier’s turn to observe, and it didn’t take long for Horacio to raise a brow in his direction, shooting him a look of feigned exasperation that only came with the territory of a relationship as enduring as theirs.

“What?” Javier said with disingenuous innocence and a vulpine smile.

It was a contagious kind of smile, one that reminded Horacio they were equals in this and that he shouldn’t have been surprised Javier had the same idea.

“I take it my mother showed you her ring?”

“On my first visit to Manizales. It was beautiful. And so’s this.”

“As is this.”

“I like to think I put my own spin on it.”

“You did.”

They sat side-by-side on the hammock, legs facing towards each other with the rings held in their outstretched hands.

Javier’s thumb slid across Horacio’s left palm, tracing patterns over new callouses born from hard labour rather than war. He circled his wrist, waiting for the familiar rhythm but finding a beat that was, unsurprisingly, drumming quicker than usual.

After subduing with his touch, Javier retrieved the gold band, gliding it carefully onto Horacio’s ring finger, easing it over the knuckle until it rested snugly at the base.

They sat transfixed, marvelling at the light dancing across it as Horacio’s thumb ran back and forth over the curved surface in fascination.

Horacio repeated the ritual of mapping Javier’s left hand, lacing their fingers together as a tangible reminder of their bond. Their devotion. Their vow. Their choice. Whether the law honoured it one day or not.

He picked up the silver to his gold, shimmying it along Javier’s ring finger and passing beyond the slight resistance at his knuckle. Not too much force, but firm enough for it to sink perfectly into place.

With palms connected and fingers interlocked, their foreheads met, chests rising and falling in tandem.

“Te amo tanto, Javier.”

“Yo también te amo. Tanto, Horacio. Tanto.” Javier whispered, over and over in Horacio’s ear like a prayer – their prayer – before brushing his lips above Horacio’s brow, the bridge of his nose, both cheeks and down to his mouth, creating their own sign of the cross with each kiss. A new beginning and a welcome home.

They untied their robes and collapsed onto the hammock in a tangle of limbs, silver and gold melding at their chests and hands; their past, present and future as inseparable as their hearts, bodies and souls.

With one smooth motion, Horacio pinned Javier’s arms down into the netting of the hammock, a dark, hungry gaze passing between them as cool metal fused with hot skin.

15 years and several lifetimes may have gone by. But when Horacio had the man he loved, the man who loved him, his media naranja, underneath him, only one word ran through his head. Mine.

Old habits die hard, he supposed.

[starcrossed591]

KDrama Year in Review 2023

While I watched more KDramas this year than CDramas, none of them consumed my heart and soul quite like this year's crop of CDramas did (CDrama review post here). And I dropped KDramas more readily than I have in years past, in part because there were so many more things to watch than I had time for (also I had to finish my dissertation and graduate, etc etc). Still, there were definitely some that I really, really enjoyed, so here's this year's KDrama round up:

16. My Lovely Liar: Started strong, got boring real quick. Dropped for homophobic murder plot. Still, glad to see that Hwang Min Hyn can actually act (although full disclosure, I did still enjoy him in Alchemy of Souls, wooden as that performance may be). Hoping Kim So Hyun can catch a break and get a role in a drama more worthy of her in the near future.

15. Crash Course in Romance: Excellent performances and chemistry by the ML and FL. Romance between two middle aged people instead of youths is also a treat. Dropped around ep 12 because of the unnecessary, homophobic murder plot. Pass.

14. A Good Day to Be a Dog: Surprisingly stronger than the goofy premise suggests, largely on the basis of Park Gyu-Young's performance as the FL who turns into a dog upon being kissed. Pacing problems in the third act around the origins of the whole dog curse thing. Can't say I recommend unless you're really in the mood for some shenanigans, but largely inoffensive if a little silly. (Also it turns out Cha Eun Woo *really* leveled up his kiss game for this one!)

13. Love to Hate You: Perfectly serviceable rom com. Nothing too special, but a nice weekend binge if you're in the mood for that. Also a good way to see Kim Ji-Hoon's v handsome face and that *hair* without having to deal with everything involved with his rather murderous run in Flower of Evil.

12. Joseon Attorney: A Morality: Perfectly serviceable law procedural/Joseon historical. If you don't like either of those genres your mileage may vary, but I had missed having Bona on my screen, so it worked well enough for me.

11. Welcome to Samdal-ri: I seem to like this one more than literally everyone else I know, and I fully admit that my enjoyment of this drama is more vibes-based than plot-based. I guess I have a soft spot for Shin Hye Sun yelling at people at Ji Chang Wook going a bit unhinged over a woman who ran away from him (see also: Lovestruck in the City).

10. My Demon: Very much enjoying Song Kang as a cranky demon falling in love with a human. Very tropey in the best way, and feels like a return to form for the supernatural romance genre. Remains to be seen if they'll land the ending as of this writing, but enjoying as it goes.

9. Doctor Cha: A contribution to the slate of divorce comedies I watched this year (see also: Strangers Again (KDrama) and Let's Get Divorced (JDrama)), a surprisingly touching story about growing older when you've devoted your life to someone who has not done the same for you.

8. Alchemy of Souls: Light and Shadow (Part 2): While Ko Joon-Yung never quite managed to replace Jung So-Min as the FL for me, I definitely still enjoyed the closer to this fun fantasy series. Special shout out to Shin Seung-Ho as Prince Go Won and his pet turtle

7. Strangers Again: I didn't see a ton about this one on tumblr as it was airing, but I found this rom com? melodrama? divorce procedural? makjang? story about relationships and why they end unexpectedly profound. I tuned in expecting mindless makjang hot mess, and instead got a thoughtful meditation on divorce. Left me feeling unexpectedly melancholy at the end, but glad I watched it.

6. The Secret Romantic Guesthouse: Very fun sageuk! Probably won't knock your socks off, but it does what it does very well. Bonus points for a B couple as compelling as the A couple. I've also been a big Kang Hoon fan since Little Women, and there are a couple of other actors in here that I'm always glad to see working.

5. Perfect Marriage Revenge: Tour de force makjang. Came out of nowhere and blew me away. Hits all the right beats, and unexpectedly fun (and was a nice break from the heaviness of My Dearest for me). This was a good year for jaded and slightly unhinged transmigrated FL's back for their #revenge (see also: Story of Kunning Palace in CDrama land), and I was here for it. Also features one of the spiciest make-out scenes of the year, 10/10 recommend

4. See You in My 19th Life: Absolutely loved this haunting, melancholy, and sometimes unexpectedly goofy reincarnation drama. I loved the webtoon and had high expectations, and this drama largely met them! The continuing relationship between sisters Ji-Eum (Shin Hye Sun) and Cho-Won (Ha Yoon Kyung) was a special highlight for me, and while Shin Hye Sun is already a never-miss for me, I'm especially looking forward to whatever Ha Yoon Kyung does next. I prefer the ending of the Webtoon to the KDrama, but I'm still delighted this drama exists and am glad I watched it.

3. The Interest of Love: Look, I loved this drama. Even though it seemed on the surface like nothing but *mess* in the interpersonal lives of these characters working at a bank on the border between a rich and poor neighborhood in Seoul, it nonetheless had some of the most searing class commentary of the year for me. I also love an FL who will (spoiler) pack up her things and disappear at the drop of a hat, even if no one else will understand her decision to do so, because she just cannot deal anymore (see also: the FL in Lovestruck in the City, whom I also love but everyone else hated). This drama kept me gleefully coming back every week in a year where not a lot of others did.

2. Call It Love: A revenge slice of life melodrama that I found unexpectedly touching in its deep melancholy. Loved not only the main couple, but the relationship between the siblings and their pharmacist bestie. A lovely character study. (Also I somehow ended up watching this at the same time as Till the End of the Moon and Li Susu as Ye Xiwu's hidden identity/revenge plot, which was unexpectedly stressful! Had a very "it's the same picture" moment despite two dramas in two genres that could not be further apart.) If you missed this one (and since it aired on Disney+, you might have--Disney+'s effects on the KDrama streaming ecosystem will be the death of me), it's worth seeking out!

1. My Dearest (Parts 1 and 2): Kind of feels like everyone has said everything there is to say about sageuk of truly epic proportions, but it blew me away as well. Epic romance? Check. Twisty political machinations? Check. Heartwarming friendships between women? Check. Strong ensemble cast? And my top FL of the year, Lady Gil-Chae, played to perfection by Ahn Eun-Jin. I've adored her since Hospital Playlist, and am delighted that she's getting the attention and the roles she deserves. Namkoong Min also a top contender for ML of the year as Lee Jang-Hyun. Part 2 dragged for me a bit in places after a nearly perfect Part 1, but such a great drama overall.

Favorite Drama of the Year: My Dearest. See above.

Favorite Female Character: I mean, it's gotta be Gil Chae from My Dearest, right? She starts out as such a spiteful, spoiled noblewoman, and then turns out to have a core of pure steel. Turns out all her conniving and strategizing, which went towards causing mischief in the village, really just needed a proper outlet. While I would never want to be in the circumstances in which she found herself, if I did, she's exactly who I would want on my side.

Favorite Male Character: Everything's coming up My Dearest this year, because this one is Lee Jang-Hyun in My Dearest as well. Checks the box for my competence kink, and has a knack for showing up just when Gil-Chae needs him, even at great personal cost. Also a smart-ass, which I probably like a bit too much in a man.

Favorite Secondary Female Character: Cho-Won from See You in My 19th Life. Her relationship with her reincarnated older sister was almost more compelling to me than the main romance sometimes, and really helped develop how the ties that bind us are not just romantic ones. Also she was just super cute

Favorite Secondary Male Character: Could have picked anyone from Team Himbo in Alchemy of Souls, but gonna have to give this one to Go Won, himbo prince of my heart

Favorite Ship: Again, it's gotta be Gil-Chae and Lee Jang-Hyun in My Dearest. Sometimes, there are drama couples that nearly cause me pain when they are apart, and these two quickly became one of them. Though their relationships is hardly functional for much of it, through all that push and pull, they ultimately learn how to show up for each other. Also, their *chemistry* is insane!

Favorite Secondary Ship: I loved Hye-Seong and Sung Joon, the B couple in Call it Love. Seeing the SFL grow more comfortable with herself after a truly shitty ending to her previous relationship was a nice respite from the hidden identity stress of the A couple in this one. I'm also a sucker for a good romance where you start to see someone you've long taken for granted differently. (Close Runner Up: Cho Won and Do-Yun in See You in My 19th Life)

Favorite Platonic Relationship: Gil-Chae, Eun-Ae, and their maids, Jong Jong and Bong Doo, in My Dearest. I loved loved loved the relationship between these women in this drama, and part of the reason the second half of the drama suffered a bit for me is because of how far it moved away from this core relationship. They were ride or die for each other more than the majority of the men in their lives, and I loved that for them.

Trope that Needs to Die: While I find murder plots in rom coms tedious at the best of times, homophobic murder plots are really not it. Quit it, y'all. It's not cute.

Dramas I Missed: Moon in the Day, The Story of Park's Marriage Contract, and Tell Me That You Love Me (grrr Disney+ on this one) are on the list for next year. I'm probably missing others.

Non-2023 Drama Spotlight: Finally went back and watched Do You Like Brahms? for a hit of Park Eun-Bin. A lovely, if also melancholy, slice of life romance that's just as much about what to do when a (career related) dream that you've worked really, really hard for just isn't going to come through as it is about the main romance. Also made me fall in love with Kim Min-Jae and his lovely deep voice, enough so that I also then went back and finally watched Dali and the Cocky Prince, which was also a treat. Recommend both.

Most Looking Forward To: I continue to yearn for a Yumi's Cells 3, and who's to say if that one will ever come through, but I'm putting it out into the universe anyway. More realistically, I'm looking forward to the surprisingly stacked line-up of sageuks coming up, including Captivating the King and Love Song for Illusion.

[tomorrowsgardennc]

market update // september 14th

drop off versus set up. i get to the market super early, even though setting up takes me 15 minutes, tops. i prefer to avoid the traffic of other vendors setting up, and i like to volunteer around the market before it opens. it's around 50 vendors at this market during the main season (april until december), so it can get busy super quick right before the market opens with everyone coming in at the last minute. not worth the stress when i can just come in early and help others out.

today blew me away. literally. had gusts of wind that were so bad a power pole fell down right outside the parking lot. that means the road that's the main traffic for the market was closed after 30 minutes of being open. that killed sales for *everyone*, including the big bois that sell out every week. coffee barrista vendor said their sales were down to 1/3rd their normal amount because of this. but the die hards willing to brave traffic and walking 2 blocks from parking to the market still made it out.

tue big bois were panicing over sales, but a horrific day in sales for me here still beat a great day of sales at other markets in previous years. no panicing from me, for once. if the road wasn't closed but sales were the same as today THEN i would panic. c'est la vie and all.

my top sellers were the ground cherry produce and the mini flower vases. none of those sales were my normal customers but rather the die-hards just browsing since they weren't eager to get back into traffic. so i met some new faces today, that's good. top reactions to people trying out the ground cherries go to a 3yo trying one, then shaking their head vigorously and then hiding in their mothers hair. another 6yo tried one and then just quickly started eating a whole bunch more. the mom paid for it, blushing, but i thought it was cute.

so imma share a secret with you, tumblr. for me to pass the time, i always wave to the kids who stare at me and tally up how many wave back. my record is 5 in one day. today was only 1. will try and wave better next week.

with it being an unsually slow day, i did end up going home with more than what i came with. but today is also my birthday so that's ok. ton of bread from my favorite bread baker in all the charlotte area, plus bagels, apples, cookies... got 2 large flower bouquets - one for a colleague who passed away this week, and another for me because birthday. thinking about merging all the large flowers together and take them to the place where he worked tomorrow, and keep the small ones for me. idk, i just love smaller bouquets spread around the house instead of one big one.

i didn't take an after-market shot because there was almost no difference at all due to lack of traffic. i did try and get photos throughout the day to share here and i hope that this new series of posts help inspire those who want to or are beginning their business vending journey. i've been vending at several markets and too many events over the past 5 years, so i got a lot of pointers and stories to share. please enjoy.

[openworldadventurer]

I'm really sorry if this is rude or something, it's really not intended to be, but do you have any proof of your work at Bethesda? I'm writing something for school about how casual a lot of the abuse/mismanagment in the games industry is and want to include some of the things you've talked about in the past, but I can't seem to find anything that actually validates your accounts. Even just an article from a credible source in which your mentioned or smth would be fine, genuinely.

Sorry again if this rude, thank you in advance if you decide to respons!

That's a perfectly reasonable thing to ask, so no offense taken.

But first things first: there are larger and more egregious abuses out there with much more proof than some tales from the trenches on Tumblr. I recommend Jason Schreier's Press Reset (not just because I was interviewed for it about two separate studio closures, Big Huge Games and 2K Marin), but there's no shortage of good reporting on a variety of abuses. (And as for "mismanagement", I wouldn't call any of the cut stuff from Skyrim a sign of mismanagement at all -- that's just what happens in any big open-world game. Every developer plans about twice as much stuff for a game as actually sees the final version -- there are always cuts when we see what we'll have the time and devpower to achieve.)

So please, don't quote "some guy on Tumblr said his name was struck from the game" for your school article -- it'll look like gossip reporting, and it won't even be very exciting. There's real horrors out there with solid sourcing that you can draw from, instead. As for my own credentials: I'm listed in the credits for Fallout 3 as "Fred Zeleny" (you can see me listed in this video of the credits at 2:51), and the various Fallout fan wikis have archives of my "Inside the Vault" internal blog interview I did while working on it.

As I've said elsewhere, I'm not listed in the credits for Skyrim, because they stripped my name along with a few other developers for going to work at different game studios before the project was done. I'm not sure what I can do to offer proof that I was there for that time period, short of sharing my design notebooks or pictures from the company parties, all of which might well be legally-actionable breaches of my NDA. I suppose I could point out which characters are named after friends of mine, but that wouldn't prove much if you don't know them. (Although it's a sweet story: they had just married at the time, and I added them as a little surprise wedding gift. Now their two kids play Skyrim on the Switch and are delighted to see their parents immortalized in Darkwater Crossing.) Now, that sort of professional erasure might not fly nowadays (particularly with a union there!), but that was 15 years ago. And sure, that was frustrating back when I was a young dev. But in the decade and a half since, it's never been a professional impediment, because everyone else in the industry knows that sort of pettiness was/is done all the time. And it doesn't hold a candle to some of the real abuses and horrors I've seen in the industry since leaving Bethesda.

So... yeah. I am who I say I am, but I really hope I haven't given the impression that Bethesda is a uniquely bad place in the game industry. If anything, it was fine in hindsight, albeit a little frustrating how things ended. But I tell tales of what almost happened in those games because those are the games people are familiar with, and because those tales are amusing rather than just horrifying.

Trust me, "here's a funny thing I almost did with Sheogorath!" or "the Bard's College quest was almost way more complex!" are much more enjoyable stories from game development than the real horrors I've seen. You probably wouldn't enjoy reading "that season I slept in the office multiple nights a week to meet deadlines and then the parent company failed to make payroll and laid us all off with no severance and we all cried and my coworker wrote a sad note to the movers who came to take everything away", or "the guy who made us completely retool our game to be more mainstream just stepped down after being arrested for a longstanding pattern of sexual harassment and abuse of employees." Trust me, those are real bummers. So it'd probably be better for your article if you focus on the sort of actual abuse and mismanagement I've shared links for here, rather than the minor stuff from my posts.

Gotta keep a proper perspective, y'know?

[sybaritick]

In response to recent posts I've seen discussing "people on tumblr lying about being working class when they're clearly not/people on tumblr claiming they're regular middle class when they make 200k a year": it's true this is extremely annoying, but i really think this problem exists on EVERY website and also in real life (feel like one can meet working-class-larpers at every US university, but more so the more elite the university is).

People build an identity around an image of their social class, both current and past, and that can be for political reasons (they're a leftist and don't want to be one of the bad rich people) or just because they want to have a bootstraps success narrative around themselves or whatever else. But that identity they build can be completely disconnected from the material reality of their upbringing.

My parents were definitely well-off: my dad was a software developer and my mom also had a tech-adjacent job. Because we lived in a very expensive area, people still made fun of me for class-related reasons as a kid and my parents struggled with financial stuff at times (like having to move out of the house we lived in and switch to renting a smaller condo). However I would still never make the claim I am just some average American, because as a kid my family's income was definitely in the top ~15% in the US.

The thing is though... I think some people either 1) Solely base their perception on the people around them, and if you do that you'll probably think of yourself as average, or 2) have a load-bearing element of their personality that depends on them having been working class background or at the very least have come from an "average" background.

I think the problem here is people building their identities so hard around what their ideology "demands." It's not easy to solve but it's something you have to be honest with yourself about. There is a huge strain of online Tumblr-type-leftism that demands you perform a sort of victimhood/background of oppression or be considered inherently a bad person, and the result is that some people will fake it, but they might not even believe they are faking it, it's part of their self-image.

Don't buy into this idea that victimhood is virtuous.

The first step is do not apologize for any advantage you have and do not feel guilt over any advantage you have: the advantage is good. it lets you do more, gives you power, gives you time or money or connections compared to the average. Everyone has at least some advantages in life, even if they are as simple as "It's an advantage that I was born in at Western country," or "it's an advantage that I'm not blind or deaf." You will never accomplish anything useful, politically or personally, by feeling bad for these things. (You cannot give another person your advantages, or remove your own advantages, by feeling guilty. you CAN use your advantages to help disadvantaged people-- but not through guilt or performative hand-wringing!)

You should feel good and happy about the things many on Tumblr call privileges, because they mean it will be some amount easier for you to get further and climb higher and do more. I love being American. I love being able to do this many pull-ups. I love being male-passing. And I love money. Build from there.

[brb-on-a-quest]

Day Fourteen Day Fifteen Day Sixteen

im SOOOOO SORRY that I left you guys hanging those two days! *cries* the first one I genuinely forget, and the second I was too busy to do it- and I think that this is not the first time this might happen, since the farm (oh yeah, if you're not one of my regular followers, you should know I'm a farmhand lol) is picking up steam, during my down time Im trying to do more physical rest for my body to recover. which means unfortuantely, Ive been spending less time on here in general, and that my longer posts that take more time to write have had to pause for a while.

so, I'm sorry to say but this is the last day i'll be able to do this for a while, but maybe forever. I've had so much fun with it and loved to see everybody's different answers, and how we've all connected!! but for at least a few days/weeks, I need a bit of a break lol. if anyone wants to pick up this game again, with the same list of people I've given already or different ones, you are more than welcome to! and I'm not leaving Tumblr, I'm just not going to do this particular ask game anymore.

our final question: what is something that you you want in your life, and what can you do to achieve it? what steps do you need to take to earn the life you see yourself living?

thank all of you so much! I hope to return again maybe sometime! I wish you all the best :)

Awww no worries gracie! take care of yourself first. Def appreciate all the work it must've taken to come up with good questions. I'll be sure to haunt your inbox soon with hopefully some equally thought-provoking (or not) questions.

ok, actual question: our final question: what is something that you you want in your life, and what can you do to achieve it? what steps do you need to take to earn the life you see yourself living?

To be honest, this question has haunted me for the past...well since before high school. (has it really been almost 10 years since I was a baby highschool freshman?). To be also perfectly honest, my depression and anxiety were so bad I was never convinced I would make it as far as I did... which allowed me to put off answering the question for a long while until the Hour of College Applications approached.

Well, against all previous conceptions of my future, I am still alive and about to graduate in December (literally how) and set to walk across the beautiful stage in May to get my undergrad diploma with some kind of academic honors (I forget the Latin for it). Definitely not the highest GPA, but I am relatively proud of myself considering the effort and, for lack of a better phrase, blood, sweat, and tears that have gone into this. So, steps that need to happen in order to graduate

Pass classes (Preferably with A's but I'm also in a position where hopefully my self-esteem won't die with a B or 2).

Write and Finish my thesis (shaking crying throwing up I don't have enough capacity for this even if it's only 15 pages in Spanish)

Study and hopefully pass a GRE (graduate school readiness exam I think? 'cuz I'm told it's a good idea for master's school applications I can not stress enough how much I hate standardized tests and am so anxious about this that I haven't even opened my books yet, I've just been throwing myself into thesis research instead; I 'know not all schools require this but I'm going into something that's not my major, so I feel some kind of need to prove myself).

Apply to graduate schools for counseling!

Only four things... it shouldn't be so bad.... one would think... (can I please just skip to the part where this is over why do people call college the best years of my life).

The other thing I want to work on is just being a better person and in particular a better friend. My goal is therapy, particularly pediatric therapy because it's such a neglected area where I'm from and also in general I think because there tends to be stereotypes of "oh children can't have mental health problems." but doing that means I want to develop more compassion, friendliness, and patience and gentleness and actual listening skills while being assertive...yk an environment that nurtures personal and other's growth. Which is really hard. Progress has been made but still more to go.

[prismatoxic]

i've told parts of this story before, but bare with me, i'm emotional.

so like, i've had this blog since 2021. my original tumblr blog (made in 2011 iirc) was nuked in 2018 for exactly the reason you think (nsfw ban) and i didn't return for a handful of years because it stung so bad. even when i did, i mostly used twitter.

i started posting to tumblr more regularly when musk's twitter takeover finally pissed me off enough to ditch it. (i have since gone back, sort of, but am not reliably present and mostly just rt art people send me.) i've been pretty consistently here since then, sans a very angry break when all the shit with automattic's CEO happened.

and like... looking through my archives... i only made a dedicated tag for asks last july, even though i've been using an organizational tag system since i made this blog. that's how infrequent they were. my art usually got between 0 and 3 notes. when i left briefly back in january, i deleted every post in my art tag because i didn't want to leave my work here, but also, like... the only things that went anywhere were some of my mgs fanarts. no one owes anyone's work attention, but it didn't feel worth it, you know? like why share it with the public when i can just show it to the like 3 friends i know who care?

i came back partially because i felt... isolated. i have friends on the fediverse and on discord, but tumblr gave me a sense of being in a community, even if i didn't feel like an important part of said community. i missed queuing funny posts to enjoy weeks later, i missed being kept sort of in-the-loop about fandom goings-on, i missed my friends who were still here. (and that last one is also part of why i check twitter more now.)

but that alone wasn't enough, because i was a nobody here and it probably wasn't worth it to try again. but then devot and i started watching dungeon meshi, and i got into chilaios just like i thought i would, and tumblr has the largest concentration of chilaios fanart and posts. not only that, but every post i saw in the tag had so much engagement! i didn't see a single one that went unnoticed, back in february. so i hesitantly came back. i started reblogging chilaios posts. i didn't intend to try and break into the space because i knew it'd just hurt if i went unnoticed again, like i did in other fandoms.

but i made friends, little by little. i started a fanfic. i cautiously began posting my art again. i started writing meta, and shitposts, and replying on other people's posts, and commenting on other people's fics, and now...

that ask tag i mentioned? there are 15 pages of posts with that tag on my blog. only 2 and a half of those pages are asks from before i got into dunmeshi. people talk to me--they care about my thoughts and my opinions, they compliment the things i make. i have a group of like, 30+ people i interact with regularly, many of which i now consider close friends. everything i post gets some attention, no matter what it is.

this isn't a humblebrag, it's just... a thank you. i can't really properly express the depths of the loneliness i've felt in the past. i was an outcast for a long time, and it was way worse pre-2019, but i don't think it's ever fully left me. i've been hurt very, very badly in the past, and i've been abandoned a lot, and i've been ostracized a lot. i've grown into who i am today both in spite of and because of all i've been through, and for that i wouldn't ever change it, but it was still hard.

so today, as i turn 29, seeing asks and gifts pour in to tell me happy birthday, and that i'm appreciated... just, thank you.

if there's one thing you can give me today, it's this: reblog someone's art or writing or meta with some enthusiastic tags. send someone a friendly ask. reply to someone's post to comment on something they've said. write comments on ao3 for the fics that move you, no matter how much or how little you can think of to say.

this is going to sound cheesy as hell, but i genuinely mean it: reach out, and spread joy, whenever and wherever you can. you never know who's in pain, who's lonely or who feels worthless. and if it's you who feels that way, do what you can anyway; a community that isn't afraid to reach out will reach back to you, too. and you're not alone. i care, i promise--and more people than you realize do too.

it's so easy to underestimate how much a kind word can do. they add up, though. so keep going.

[wildskissed]

GET TO KNOW ME MEME ! !

NAME — pyro, but some of you know me by my name/name PRONOUNS — she/her SEXUALITY — demisexual, which is admittedly why a few of my more popular muses are as well, because it's easy to write, lol SINGLE / TAKEN — taken

THREE FACTS

— I used to teach preschool — I’m a published author — My ideas were used for a few episodes of a very popular cult phenomenon show that ran for 15 years...

EXPERIENCE

HOW LONG — Have I been writing? Since 6th grade. My teacher added an extra credit part to our weekly homework packets for me because I was always writing random short stories in class in my free time and she thought it would be fun if we all had a chance to do that. RPing? Since 2006, and it was on a Star Trek forum that no longer exists. It was also fully comprised of OCs only, so it boggled my mind--still does--that when I came to Tumblr that was so frowned upon, because that was all I knew. WHAT PLATFORMS — A couple of forums, one for Start Trek and one that was a world that my sister and I created that took off with our friends and some other people we never met in real life, lol. We also did Twitter RP for a while for FanFic characters, and then I ended up on Tumblr, and very rarely do a I sometimes do Discord RP. BEST EXPERIENCE — I love Tumblr most days, but those forums were hands down the best. We all collaborated on ideas, and we all gushed about each other's OC's, and we genuinely wanted everyone to have a good time. We also got really into editing and manips, which was why when I was involved in said cult phenomenon, I used to make fan videos too by meshing different shows and movies together. I still do that occasionally, but mostly I just work on my own novels, lol. Honestly, probably why Eve has taken off as she has with the group of you that I've surrounded myself with because we all do the same--we collaborate and gush and protect each other.

MUSE TYPE

FEMALE OR MALE — I heavily lean towards female muses. I don't know why that is, because I do have male muses that I have used in the past, and I love writing male characters, but I have never been able to stick with one that I RPed. Because of that, I absolutely RP females constantly. FLUFF , ANGST OR SMUT — I love them all! Angst is my niche though. I've been known for it in every serious writing group I have ever been in, but I still love fluff and I do love smut if I'm in the mood for it. I try not to turn cute threads into angst too, but I know that I'm guilty of that sometimes, haha. PLOTS OR MEMES — ALL OF THE ABOVE LONG OR SHORT REPLIES — I prefer longer replies, but I understand that those can take a toll, and sometimes, I'm more in the mood for a shorter quippy thread, you know? So, it really depends on the mood, and how my partner is feeling. BEST TIME TO WRITE — When I have the muse to. That's such a response, but, it's just true. I have such limited time because of my work schedule, so I'm mostly on in the mornings or on Sundays, but honestly, you can't force writing to happen. You really gotta go with the flow. ARE YOU LIKE YOUR MUSE(S) — I mean...yes and no? I have muses that I have absolutely nothing in common with, but I also feel like, most of us pick muses that we at least see one trait in common with them? Easier to write what you know? Like I write L.ove Q.uinn, but I wouldn't say I am like her. I have a mothering streak like Eve does, and I can be a bit of an arrogant brat like Y.ennefer, but I don't know that I'd ever compare myself to my muses, lol.

TAGGED BY STOLEN FROM: the dash and i can't remember from whom TAGGING: @illithidploy, @arcanecast, @shadovan, @miidnighters, @dxnse-macabre, @fereldensheroes, @altrxisme, @luposcainus, @championsofthegate, @alittlebitofmuse, @wolf-eyes-wolf-soul, and you ! !

[epersonae]

The Cooking Project: an introduction

So I've posted quite a bit about my issues with executive dysfunction around cooking, which started the summer before Ryn died and have lingered since then. I've tried a few things to break through it, with limited success.

Then: I was talking to some friends recently and we got talking about "grandma recipes". (See also: @triflesandparsnips' work with soaps and lip balms etc.) In that conversation, I realized again both that I have a lot of cooking knowledge, actually, and that I have my own little collection of that sort of recipes.

I've watched food tv since long before food network existed, and I love figuring out and understanding how cooking works. And I have both a stack of index cards accrued over the years, and an actual binder of print-outs and magazine clippings etc etc, some of which date back almost 30 years at this point.

And then I looked at those cards, and OMG, there's so many that aren't quite complete recipes, including a few that don't even say what they are, plus a few that I've never made. The binder, too, is a mix of things I used to make all the time, and some that were purely aspirational.

wait, what are you doing?

So I'm trying this thing where I make something from my collection, and make some notes about it. (Yeah, I'm doing ye olde food blogging, what of it.) The idea is to get back into regular cooking not as self-care or maintenance or overhauling my daily life or whatever, but by exploring an old special interest, and enjoying the play of it.

the first recipe: key lime pie from tumblr

At the suggestion of one of these friends, I started with a recipe that I found here on Tumblr, at some point I don't remember when, that I've never made: key lime pie. (Apologies for no link, but I literally have no idea what post it was or even when I wrote it down.)

Recipe text, transcribed:

12 oz can sweetened cond. milk 3 egg yolks 1/2 c key lime juice

mix until smooth heat oven to 350F, prebake graham cracker crust for 15 min pour in filling, bake 15 min cool 30 min on counter, then in fridge for 4hrs - overnight

Notes:

sweetened condensed milk only comes in 14oz cans now. I did some math, and increased the lime juice by one tablespoon.

the recipe as I wrote it didn't say what size pie crust. I bought a 9" and I think an 8" would have been a better choice. the ratio of crust to filling was off and the outer edge was frankly silly looking.

I have, in the past, made graham cracker crust from scratch. it's pretty easy, but also premade pie crust, sure why not.

the prebaking was definitely too long, and it ended up tasting a little burnt. I'd do more like 10 minutes max next time.

I started preheating the oven before I mixed the ingredients, because I know how long it takes my oven to preheat.

if I had the experience, I think I would have made a meringue with the egg whites. maybe next time I'll try it.

I added the info about increasing lime juice, the crust size, and baking timing to my card for future reference.

Final thoughts

I would make it again! The filling was tart and creamy, a nice contrast to the crust, and I've always loved key lime pie. Very easy, tasty, and I've added the key parts of my notes to the back of the card.

Update, a couple of weeks later: ended up freezing two slices, will see if they're good unfrozen. (I have a soft spot for terrible frozen key lime pie slices.)

[cursedvibes]

20 Questions for Fic Writers

Tagged by @voxofthevoid

Thank you! And congratulations to the 2 mil words 🥳

1. How many works do you have on ao3?

22

2. What’s your total ao3 word count?

228,925

3. What fandoms do you write for?

Only Jujutsu Kaisen so far. And I published an original fic anonymously. I also have some ideas for Naruto (or more like the Sannin), Houseki no Kuni and Monster fics, but I'm not getting there any time soon.

4. What are your top five fics by kudos?

People really seem to like the more or less wholesome Itadori family stuff

Call Me A Familiar Stranger (Kenjaku & Yuuji) - I really didn't expect this one to be so popular, since it was essentially just a scrapped idea for another chapter of Chance Encounter.

Chance Encounter (Kenjaku & Yuuji)

Familial Units (Kenjaku & Yuuji, Jin/Kenjaku)

Stitches Across the Eye (Jin/Kenjaku) - my long term project that I will hopefully finish next year...

First Time (Jin/Kenjaku) - My #1 smut fic. It's really surprising to see it this high because it didn't do that well in the beginning, but recently I've been getting a lot of notifications for it.

5. Do you respond to comments? Why or why not?

I try to, but it might take weeks 😬 It's always in the back of my head though and especially with the longer ones I feel bad for not responding quickly. Usually, I feel really stupid with the stuff I say in response, but I hope that doesn't shine through. I really appreciate every single one. I have a whole folder of screenshotted comments, bookmark descriptions and tumblr tags, asks and mentions.

6. What is the fic you wrote with the angstiest ending?

Oh boy, that's a tough pick. I'd say either Midnight Tea or In the Quiet of the Cold because they both end with Jin's corpse rotting on the floor and a deeply traumatized Yuuji.

7. What’s the fic you wrote with the happiest ending?

I think First Time is my most wholesome fic so far. Lots of vivid descriptions of Kenjaku's brain, but Jin is actually really happy about how touching his wife's organs can be a bonding experience. It's how he copes with Kaori's temporal death uwu. Even Kenjaku catches some feelings.

8. Do you get hate on fic?

Not really. There was that comment recently saying I should tag First Time dead dove, but that was more weird, not hateful. Some people also have some strong emotions about Kenjaku surgically removing Gojo's eye in Familial Units, but they always end in "I didn't read the tags/didn't take them seriously, my bad".

9. Do you write smut?

I try to...it's one of the writing things I struggle with the most. I have a couple of smut WIPs, but most I don't think are good enough to be published.

10. Do you write crossovers?

No. I don't read many crossovers either. Just doesn't interest me.

11. Have you ever had a fic stolen?

Not that I know of.

12. Have you ever had a fic translated?

I actually got asked just yesterday by someone if they could translate Don't Think About The Past into Spanish. It's a first for me, I feel really honoured.

13. Have you ever co-written a fic before?

No. Depending on the idea I wouldn't be opposed to it tho.

14. What’s your all-time favourite ship?

I don't think I have something like that. There aren't that many ships I'm really crazy about anyway. TenKen and JinKen are definitely my favourite to write about tho.

15. What’s a WIP you want to finish but probably won’t?

Feel The Life Unmade. I just don't feel that satisfied about the set-up and the characters I included in there. The topic and time period is really interesting though and I want to write more about the Death Painting experiment, but not here. I decided that I will write a little bit more of chapter 3 until I get to a specific cut-off point (around 1k more words than I already have in my draft of ch3), then throw it on AO3 and incorporate the rest of my ideas in other fics. The first chapter of Haunting Past is how I wanted to end Life Unmade and some other ideas will be included in the WIP I'm currently writing.

16. What are your writing strengths?

Atmosphere I would say, particularly writing unsettling and creepy scenes. I've also been told by people that they really like my characterizations. Recently, someone commented that I manage to write Kenjaku in a way that you feel their old age, but also connection to current society and culture, which made me really happy because that's a balance I try to pay close attention to.

17. What are your writing weaknesses?

Smut. And I really mean smut, not sex. I can write sex, but making it hot and appealing is where I struggle. It always feels so hollow and silly when I reread it. Gross, anxiety inducing sex scenes I can do, but making sex sexy is hard for me. Guess that's the reason I have an easier time with MahiKen smut. It's nastier. Action scenes are hard too, but I haven't really encountered many scenarios where I would really need them, so I just don't have much practice in writing them. I also tend to focus more on a character's inner world and actions scenes don't lend themselves well to that.

18. Thoughts on writing dialogue in another language in fic?

It's fine I guess? I don't think I ever had to incorporate that in a fic (if we're talking about an exchange of multiple sentences and not just short phrases) and I would only include it if the POV character doesn't understand the language. I'd also only use it if it's a language I am confident I can represent properly. I suffered through a lot of broken German, I know how it is to have supposed native speakers not know basic grammar (or in TV pronunciation...it's one thing to have an accent, but German in American shows/movies is often just unintelligible).

19. First fandom you wrote for?

Technically Tanz der Vampire, when I was 14 or 15, but I didn't publish any of it. Wouldn't know where I would've done that anyway. Besides that, JJK is the first fandom I decided to invest a lot of time in to write and publish fanfics for.

20. Favourite fic you’ve written?

Picking Up The Pieces. I threw in a lot of my Heian TenKen hcs and it allowed me to explore a more manipulative side of Tengen. Also, it is very fun to have Kenjaku in such a vulnerable position, that doesn't happen very often.

I don't know 20 fic writers :') (or not well enough to dare to tag them) No pressure to do this or respond of course. Also, if anyone else sees this and wants to do it, feel free to take this as your tag

@hxhhasmysoul @perelka-l @urostakako @kaitakushi @frankenjoly @kenjakusbrainstem

[the-conversation-pod]

Welcome Back My Boyfriend!

AND WE'RE BACK!

It's finally time to discuss Our Skyy 2! We were playing hurt this night: Ben was still recovering from dental surgery (please forgive his voice during this episode) and Nini was nursing a headache. Still, it didn't stop us from discussing all eight shows and talking about the crossover for an hour!

Nini and Ben assess the entirety of Our Skyy 2 and rank the offerings from worst to first.

Listen on Apple Podcasts

Listen on Google Podcasts

Timestamps

The timestamps will now correspond to chapters on Spotify for easier navigation.

0:00 - Welcome 1:15 - Intro 6:07 - Vice Versa 14:23 - Star in My Mind 19:20 - Never Let Me Go 28:00 - A Boss and a Babe 36:45 - The Eclipse 49:50 - My School President 1:00:24 - Badd Buddy x A Tale of Thousand Stars 1:59:13 - Overall Score for Our Skyy 2

The Conversation: Now With Transcripts!

We received an accessibility request to include transcripts for the podcast. We are working with @ginnymoonbeam on providing the transcripts and @lurkingshan as an editor and proofreader.

We will endeavor to make the transcripts available when the episodes launch, and it is our goal to make them available for past episodes. When transcripts are available, we will attach them to the episode post (like this one) and put the transcript behind a Read More cut to cut down on scrolling.

Please send our volunteers your thanks!

0:00 - Welcome

Nini

Hello, hello! Your QL fandom aunty and uncle are here with giant sunglasses, brown liquor in a flask, a folded five-dollar bill to slip into your hand when no one is looking, lukewarm takes, occasional rides on the discourse, deep dives into artistry and the industry.

Ben

Lots of simping! I’m Ben.

Nini

I’m Nini.

Ben

And this is The Conversation. About once a season, we plan to swan in and shoot the shit on faves, flops, and trends that we’ve been noticing in the BL, GL, or QL Industry. Between seasons, you can find us typing way too many words on Tumblr.

1:15 - Intro

Nini

Hi, Ben. How are you tonight?

Ben

I'm battling my own body's slow recovery from dental surgery but it doesn't matter because we have so much to record so we're sticking to the schedule!

Nini

But, we're gonna be okay. You've got meds, I've got meds—a.k.a. beer—for this headache. We're gonna be fine. We're doing it live. So, what are we talking about tonight? We are talking about Our Skyy 2… What a journey. Ben, explain to the people the concept of Our Skyy.

Ben

Welcome back, my boyfriend! That's it. 

Nini

[laughs]

Ben

Jojo started this off and summed it up perfectly. Our Skyy originally served as a sort of epilogue project for the initial run of GMMTV BLs. 

In the first run we had the Puppy Honey crew with OffGun, the SOTUS pair with Krist and Singto, the InSun pair from My Dear Loser: Edge of 17, Tay and New from Kiss the series—before Dark Blue Kiss, and Drake and Frank from My Tee a.k.a. ‘Cause You're My Boy.

Nini

So, that's the concept of Our Skyy. So, when GMMTV put out its 2023 offerings last year: Surprise! Our Skyy 2. They are giving us epilogues for 2020, 2021, and some 2022 shows. We're gonna dive into these.

Ben

With the original Our Skyy it was kind of chaotic. So, every crew kind of just did what felt right for their characters. 

Like, Pete and Kao basically went on a date that was mostly uncomplicated—something their characters needed. 

OffGun did a body swap which was just so they could let Gun pick on Off for a bit. 

In and Sun got closure—unsurprising, Aof was on that one. 

‘Cause You're My Boy: they just kind of did just a hot mess that was weirdly endearing, which is exactly what their show was. 

And SOTUS did like the the next most logical thing for Arthit and Kongpob, which was them kinda saying goodbye as they were heading into a long distance form of their relationship because Kongpob was pursuing higher schooling outside of Thailand, if I remember correctly?

In a similar vein, this particular Our Skyy run that we're going to be talking about very much captured what I think the core spirit of the original work was, and each team came back to it—for the most part—with something to say that was consistent with their original offerings. 

Nini

Yep.

Ben

We went Never Let Me Go, Star in My Mind, The Eclipse, Vice Versa, My School President, A Boss and a Babe, Bad Buddy? and then A Tale of Thousand Stars.

Nini

I also think that the airing order was very interesting and maybe we'll get a little time to talk about how they chose to air what they did when they did. This Our Skyy, I think, wanted to lean a little bit into the crack. Every single outing had a little bit of a crack element to it—and I quite like that. I enjoyed that. I had fun with that—for the most part—and we'll get to the ones where I did not enjoy that.

Ben

I do think that the Our Skyy project leans into fan service, and not in an inherently negative way? They want the people who enjoyed this show to have fun coming back to the show, and it’s been notable for me that, for the most part, I found that if someone really liked the original show they also really liked their Our Skyy outing. So like, for those of you who've listened to me or followed me, you know what shows I didn't like or despised when they aired and—unsurprisingly—my takes are fairly consistent.

Nini

Maybe it's the corners of the internet that I've been perusing, which you always tell me to stop looking at…I feel like the more that people liked the OG show the more upset they were with the Our Skyy. Maybe that's just the people are being wrong on the internet corners of the internet that I like to occasionally look through. [laughs]

Ben

[laughs] I don't go there.

6:07 - Vice Versa

Nini

Let's delve into it. Let's start talking some specifics. So, if we're going from worst to first my worst without a doubt was the Vice Versa Our Skyy. I am on record as not having watched Vice Versa because I was not interested in Vice Versa. I have tried and failed so many times with Jittirain stories that I knew that I was not going to enjoy this one, and so I never watched the original. But, for the sake of the podcast, I watched every single Our Skyy including this one, except I did not finish this one. [laughs] I started watching it. I was mostly annoyed, and then something happened that just… I just said, “Oh, absolutely not,” and I stopped watching it.

So, the trope—the, the crack trope—for the Vice Versa Our Skyy; the fan fic-y, fan service-y trope is: Add a Kid. I think it's Puen? Puen and Talay have been together for a while now. They're working hard, working a lot. They don't have as much time for each other. And so Talay comes up with the idea of doing a month of special days where they pay very close attention to each other and they do special things together. And it's a really sweet idea and honestly if that had been it I would have been fine. There would have been no problem. 

But then they add a kid, and the way that they add a kid is what pisses me off. One of their friends… essentially delivers his nephew into the care of these strangers… so that they can play house? But it's also like a trick that Puen is playing on Talay. Because this kid just shows up at the house and Talay thinks that it might be his kid. Like, the, the setup of Vice Versa has always—as I have said before—every time I think I know what Vice Versa is about, Ben lets me know that I don't actually know what Vice Versa is about. But there's some way that Talay thinks that this kid is his somehow.

Ben

Would you like the context for why he believes that kid is his?

Nini

Sure, hit me with it!

Ben

So, they basically spend two years in the other world with Nanon and Ohm’s characters in their bodies. Ohm's character, Tess, is an asshole who absolutely ruined Talay’s life for the two years he was in his body. He sabotaged and ruined every personal and professional relationship that Talay had. 

When he got back to his own body he had to spend years fixing his own life. Which sucks, because while he was in Tess's body he basically fixed Tess's life. It's really upsetting for me that Puen, who claims to love Talay, who watched him suffer for all of the things that Tess did to his life would genuinely let Talay believe that Tess saddled him with the responsibility of an unplanned kid… because he thinks his boyfriend doesn't pay enough attention to him… like he makes his boyfriend work outside in a tent in Thailand to do graphic design on an iMac.

Nini

You were really really mad about the tent. [laughs] I remember when we were watching this. You were really pissed about the tent.

Ben

I'm—I'm not over it.

It's humid in Thailand! Why would he be outside with a Mac? Oh my God—

It's frustrating because… On the one hand, I understand the impulse of, like, how do we get these guys to consider a new form of domesticity together? But, like, why do we have to use an actual child? Why can't we use, like, a dog, or a cat? Not coercing a child into letting strangers bathe him, and treat him like he's their son, and sleep with him in their bed. It’s so, so weird… and really unhinged… and it made me like a bunch of characters even less than I already did! 

It was aggravating. It's frustrating because Puen did this through the whole show. Like, he doesn't trust Talay. He lies to him. He manipulates him. Talay and he are both in entertainment and Talay was against a huge deadline the night of Puen’s birthday, and he couldn't take a break from his work to meet his deadline to go do flirty, boyfriend things with Puen. 

Puen expressed this frustration directly the next day in a way that I thought was totally valid and then Talay goes, ‘You are correct. Here is the plan I've come up with for us to make sure that we don't take our own relationship for granted, and keep working at it.’ And they have a really great month doing cute boyfriend date things while trying to maintain their careers. And so the whole secret baby felt completely unnecessary. 

Like, we need something to happen for the plot to justify Jimmy, Neo, Aou, and Sea hanging out together. So, we have to introduce a secret baby, I guess? 

I hated it…[laughs] Like, people joke that I don't often give low scores because I don't usually watch crap. Like, if something is, like, really really bad out of the gate I am like, “Oof! I don't have time for this!” and I'll usually drop it these days, because I got too much to do. But, like, I gave the show a 3 because I was deeply put off by the coercion of a child and the audacity of it all. Because, like, you know what your boyfriend went through because of Tess. 

Why would you pull on that really traumatic thread from five years ago and make him believe that Tess had done this to him as well—knowing that Talay has a strong sense of responsibility, and would of course try to do right by a potential child. 

Like, it's hard to even talk about, like, any of the cute relationship things that may have come out of this because, like, they should divorce.

Nini

I did not enjoy this when it was revealed that the kid was…tricked. I turned it off, and I did not watch the end. 

For every special of Our Skyy, I gave it a drama score and a crack score. My drama score for this was a -5, because I was entirely unamused—like wholly unamused. This is not what I came to see in any way. I don't care if the kid is cute. I don't care if they're all cute together. They're literally using a child to fix their relationship—

Ben

And, explicitly, the child's parents did not know that this was happening.

Nini

—which makes it worse! So, I gave it a drama score of a -5, which is of course an overreaction but it's still getting a 0. Crack score, I gave it a 10, because it is actual crack? Like, this is probably the crackiest thing that happened in all of Our Skyy. But…it's not enjoyable as crack! So, let's give it a… 5 for crack… So, 0 for drama, 5 for crack gives it a score of 2.5, which sounds about correct.

Ben

Yeah, not good. 

Nini

Yeah.

Ben

Pass.

Nini

Not good. Tens or chops? One chop! 

Ben

Two chops!

[both laugh]

14:23 - Star in My Mind

Nini

Let's leave Vice Versa behind in the dustbin where it belongs and let's move on to the next on the list: Star in My Mind. Hoo! 

Ben

[laughs]

Nini

Ben, I can't even remember what happened, I was so bored watching these episodes, like, dead bored. Star in My Mind is also a show that I did not watch the OG show. So, I had no idea what it was about and was going in blind. And, I think that I was correct to not watch the OG show, because… if it was anything as boring as this, I didn't need to see it.

Ben

[sighs] So, the Star in My Mind special is basically just the gang going on a little vacation together, and then New tries to subvert the “You're together now. Let's throw in a jealousy element bit.” Like, you put a note on here that the trope for this one is “trick your friends into going on vacation.” 

So, their friends try to tease Daonuea into believing that maybe Kluen has eyes for some girl, and Daonuea gets jealous about this, and then a fight ensues and the friends get all upset. But we in the audience know that the guys are faking this fight. They knew what their friends were up to, but they were kind of flaking on this vacation. So, he uses this fake fight to force them to go on vacation with them. 

Whatever. 

Like, I think the part of this that was cute was New just throwing away the whole jealousy trope for BL, and then having the gay characters just be like, ‘Yeah, this is stupid. Anyway, we're going to absolutely use this against them because these bitches will not buy their tickets and I'm [gonna] force them to.” And, like, that part was kind of fun.

I'm in my breakup era with New right now. I can see, again, him trying to do something here. New is currently over BL. He’s tired of it. You can feel that in Star in My Mind. Like, he's completely bored with all of this. And so what could have been, like, at least a cute trip, just looks like five straight dudes hanging out in the woods for like an hour.

Nini

I think my notes say “it's two hours of a bunch of dudes vibing without vibes.”

Ben

Yeah, like, it wasn't great, and I don't really like coming for actors like that. But, Dunk is still uncomfortable with on-screen intimacy—or at least it feels like he is—particularly compared to Joong, who does not suffer from being camera shy when it comes to this kind of work. And so while I've seen them in behind-the-scenes stuff, and their variety stuff, and Joong and Dunk are great bros, I'm still struggling with Dunk as a romantic lead because he doesn't kiss well.

Nini

New didn't even phone this in. Like, I think he sent an email? Maybe it was a snail mail. 

This was just—it was boring, which I think might be worse than bad? What do we even say about it? 

Ben

Nothing! There is nothing to say! Like, Pawin was there. He didn't kiss anybody. [laughs]

Nini

I mean… that's really all that you can say about it. It was a waste of Pawin, like.

Probably the only thing that I enjoyed about this was Joong's several pissy faces when Khabkluen is salty because all his straight friends keep interrupting his gay couple time to hang out when all he wants to do is make out. And, like, the pissy faces that he makes are delightful, and they're the only reason this has a score. 

I give it a drama score of 3, because what was it even about? And I gave it a crack score of 4, and all four of those points are for Joong's pissy faces which I thoroughly enjoyed. So, It was a 3.5 for me not because it was bad but because it was boring.

Ben

I think a show has to be offensive to me in some way for me to go lower than 6 and Star in My Mind is not. It's just boring and because I've been in these gay streets a long time, I've been offended. A lot. And, I will accept boring. It's a 6. It's forgettable. We don't have to talk about it anymore.

Nini

And we will not.

Ben

[laughs]

19:20 - Never Let Me Go

Nini

We're going to move on to the actual fun and interesting ones now. [laughs] There's a definite quality bar in Our Skyy 2. There are Vice Versa and Star in My Mind, which are below the quality bar. And then there's everything else, which is above the quality bar. Now, we're talking about games of inches here. 

Never Let Me Go. So, the Never Let Me Go fanfic trope for Our Skyy was they did a time travel story that was also a—.

Ben

Fated mates.

Nini

—that was also a fated mates, and also a role reversal, and also like a body hopping. Like, there were—there was a lot going on here. It was not boring. Everybody was clearly having a fabulous time making this. And, I actually really enjoyed it. It was two episodes. I could have watched maybe four to six episodes of this no problem.

This was actually incredibly interesting. It was a lot of fun. Pawin, and Pond especially, clearly had a great time. 

Ben

That's true.

[both laugh]

Nini

Pond had a fabulous time. So, the plot of the Never Let Me Go special… You go ahead.

Ben

All right. So, it's been a couple of years since we left the boys in Never Let Me Go, and Nuengdiao has been studying elsewhere. He's coming back to Thailand, and Palm has quietly been setting up shop in Bangkok so that when Nuengdiao comes back to Thailand he can be closer to him. He doesn't want to just stay out by the beach because he wants to see his boyfriend more. 

[Cat begins wailing in the hallway near Ben’s mic]

Nuengdiao was a little bit caught off guard by this, and didn't like him making decisions for them. They run into a fortune teller who tells them that if they don't fix what was originally broken, they won't make it in this life, either. And then the fantasy hijinks kick in, where they are sent back in time to their original pairing… into the bodies of their past selves. And in their past—in their first past together where they become a couple—Palm is the rich lord, and Nuengdiao is essentially sold to him as a slave. Also, Pawin is there in an earlier version of his character. 

And so they have to play their roles. Palm is having way too much fun bossing Nuengdiao around. And also just trying to have sex with him in the past. Over the course of this they end up realizing that they have to help Pawin’'s character hook up with Mark Pahun's character, and so all of the girlies who've been waiting for that ship to reunite were fed. 

Nini is correct. Like, this ended up being really fun, because we got to see Palm and Nuengdiao kind of become like the gays who have it together for other gays.

Nini

It had that crack story but there was also another story going on alongside the crack which I really enjoyed—building on Nungdiao and Palm's actual OG series story—which is that Nuengdiao believes that Palm should make his life about himself, that he should make his decisions about the things that he wants to do without considering Neung. And that they can still be together but Palm shouldn't plan his life around him. When he comes back to Bangkok, it's to tell Palm essentially that he's decided that he's gonna stay away for a longer period of time. He's gonna do graduate school as well. 

And, this is actually a conflict between them that sort of leads into the whole time travel thing, but it's actually a really interesting conflict between them because it builds on their series story in a really interesting way. I enjoyed watching them navigate it and figure it out while they were also navigating and figuring out how the hell to get out of the past. I mean the internal logic of the story just about holds together. It's fun. It's enjoyable. It's emotional. 

Ben

If he looks at you for seven seconds he's into you and we're all like rooting for this under an umbrella.

Nini

It's fun. It's cute. It's got a little bit of a message to it. It's enjoyable. The characters feel like themselves. At one point we get a little montage of smash cuts of Nueng and Palm: they alternate crying over each other's dead bodies through the ages.

Ben

One of them definitely felt like a nod to Aof’s work where Jojo was poking fun at him.

Nini

They were actually dressed like Jim and Wen in Moonlight Chicken complete with Phuwin wearing sunglasses, his corpse wearing sunglasses at night when he's dead and Pond crying over him. It was really funny. It was delightful. That little smash cut montage was really fun and actually upped the crack score a little. Time travel is crack, no way about it. I was fully going to give it a good crack score anyway. But that little sequence upped the crack score by at least a point. It was just very funny. 

And then watching Pawin overexaggerate his “khrub’s” and fall in love with Mark Pahun's character, who's like a jewelry seller at the market. And then when they come back to the present and he's Phum again, they meet Phum at the house—which has been maintained—the lord's house has been maintained throughout the ages.

Ben

Because it had been passed down to his ancestors’ family now because they were all, like, gay besties together.

Nini

Yeah, and like, Phum and Mark Pahun's character are together in this life, too—and they're really cute—and Phum's like, “Yeah, I was a shit to you in high school. I'm sorry about that.” [laughs] It was nice. It was fun. It was enjoyable. I gave it a drama score of 7.5—I think that's reasonable for it. I gave it a crack score of 8.5 so it works out to an 8 for me, which I liked. I liked it.

Ben

I really liked a lot of this. I liked how much fun Phuwin and Pond had in the traditional garb that they were wearing. I like how much fun they had with how often they had to be shirtless. I really enjoyed them writing vows to each other in the past because they didn't know if they would be able to escape. Basically fully committed to each other. That was really beautiful, and not something I expected from Jojo. I was really surprised that Jojo did something that genuinely tender. That really worked for me.

I gave it an 8. It's one of those 8’s where it's, like, if you liked Never Let Me Go, this is going to make it feel a little bit better because the idea that the drama of Never Let Me Go is yet another instance of these two characters trying to be with each other across space and time is super romantic—and that's the kind of shit I love in my big dramas. And I was not expecting this particular show to make me go, “Wow,” [sighs] and look back at the, the original show and go, “Okay. I can see that.”

It was deeply enjoyable. If you liked Never Let Me Go enough, and you feel mildly dissatisfied by it, and you just kind of want some closure to walk away from, watch the special. I felt very good about Palm and Nuengdaio by the end of that, because they felt a little bit more grown. And I kind of like where they left the characters with Palm just being like, “Whatever, I have a rich boyfriend and I've worked very hard. I'm just gonna go hang out with you in Germany for a little while, and then we'll figure it out from there.” And I'm like, more power to you, bro.

Nini

It seemed like yes that they were just going to vibe and enjoy each other, And, after everything that those two went through? Sure! That seems like a great place to leave them. 

28:00 - A Boss and a Babe

Nini

Also in the, for me, 8 category—so there is a tie here—A Boss and a Babe. This kind of…surprised me, because I ended up, with the OG show, being really disappointed by where we landed with it. But I really liked the Our Skyy.

Ben

This is a little bit weird because I think in terms of whenever the rest of you hear this. We're actually, I think releasing this before the episode where we talk about A Boss and a Babe. So, spoilers, a bit, for that particular episode, but, uh, we were…less than impressed with A Boss and a Babe. 

Nini

For sure.

Ben

However, we actually had a decent time with their Our Skyy outing. Nini why don't you walk us through the setup for this particular outing. 

Nini

So, the fanfic trope for the A Boss and a Babe outing of Our Skyy is, I guess, “walk a mile in my shoes” kind of thing? Gun and Cher are happy together. They're sweet loving boyfriends… but the office is in shambles. Because Gun is stressed out and he's stressing everybody at work out. And because Cher knows everybody at work because he used to work there, he has been hipped to the fact that his man is stressing everybody else. And so he goes on a mission to try to get his man to stop stressing everybody at work out. 

So, trying to make him understand that he needs to dial it the fuck back. And the way that he eventually comes up with after trying a few other ways, is that they are going to spend a day walking a mile in each other's shoes. So, he is going to spend a day being the boss, and Gun is going to spend a day being the intern so that Gun gets an idea of the stresses that his employees go through. And Cher is just like whatever I'll just be the boss, and Gun is like, “Oh, it's not as easy as you think.” 

And it actually turns out really fun and interesting to watch them do this. Of course it's a weird, horny sex thing because everything is a weird, horny sex thing with these two. But [laughs] it's, it's fun. It's light. It's interesting. It's…enjoyable. It's a strong conflict. It's a stronger conflict than we get in the actual OG series. It works. I think it's that because it's so short New doesn't really have time to fuck it up.

Ben

[laughs] So, like, I was frustrated because Gun’s being kind of a difficult boss, but being fairly reasonable about why he's a difficult boss. He's like, “We work in a difficult industry where we spend a great deal of time working on something, and then we release it to the public, and then it can flop. And so I have been funding people's jobs for anywhere from two to 12 months working on a project, and we really need strong turnaround for this because these people's jobs are riding on the success of this. So they do need to take their jobs seriously, and when they are given feedback or are given specific directives, they need to accomplish those directives.” 

There's like really interesting tension there between, like, the boss's perspective of, “Y'all can be mad at me, but you want me to cut your checks, right?” versus, “Bro, we are not going to work well under these fucking conditions.” Like, that tension was delivered really well! Gun's perspective comes through in a way that doesn't feel pandering to anyone, and I was like he is a little bit off base in the way he talks to people, but the things he's concerned about are valid for where he sits.

It just pissed me off low-key because, like, we never figured out what Thyme’s whole deal was in the original show. Like, his friend who used to be part of the company. And it feels like that was his job here—was to be like the bridge between Gun and the team. To translate Gun’s directives and frustrations into directives for the team so they could accomplish them and to keep the team motivated. And, like, Cher was helping with that for a while but now that Cher is, like, doing other stuff, like, that has gone away. That's the biggest thing with this one. Like, this was such a solid concept that it made me even more annoyed at how the OG show just sort of fumbled every thread that they were holding.

Nini

Yeah, I have to agree. Like, the workplace conflict on this was really strong and solid, and the workplace stuff in the OG show was kind of weak. And part of the workplace stuff that was great in this was showing that, yeah, Gun does need a balancing force at work. But also, aside from that, surprisingly, Cher is not an idiot. [laughs] Like, Cher is actually pretty competent. He's not, like, ready, clearly, to be the boss of a place like this. But he's not an idiot. 

Like, one of the things that happens is that Gun tries to set him up a little bit by having, like, a client come in and try to, like, have a discussion and talk to him about, like, partnering on a game or something and like talking about ideas and all that kind of stuff. And at first you think that Cher is going to blow it. But then he delivers. He comes into the meeting. You know, he takes a minute to get his bearings and understand what's going on, but then he has actual good ideas? And he can speak to the people in a way that works for the business. 

So, it shows they could probably at some point in the future after Cher has learned more, they could probably run the business together. Because I think that they bring the different perspectives that's required, but, just like Ben said, that also makes me, like, really mad that we didn't get more of the Thyme stuff in the OG series because, to me, that feels like this was what Thyme’s role was. And that just completely got cast aside. So, on the one hand, I thought this was actually pretty good but, on the other hand, it made me think even less of the OG series and I was already struggling with the OG series.

Ben

[sighs] And that's where we are. It sucks because, like, again, like, Force and Book are good. And the cast of this particular show? Very good. They hold together an otherwise weak show but, man, you just really want to see what that cast looks like when they have a really good show under their belt.

Nini

Yeah, and this gives you, like, a kind of an ‘in’ to that. So my score: this was drama score of 8 because I thought it was a solid conflict. Well executed. I give it a crack score of 8 because, quite honestly, once the whole role reversal thing started. Like, if I worked for Gun’s company, I would have taken, like, vacation until that was over because it was just…It was a little too “bring your kinks to work” for me personally. 

[both laugh]

I would have been like, yeah I don't need to see this. I'm gonna take a day off, and tomorrow when I come back, hopefully everything will be normal. Combined like drama score 8 crack score 8 average 8. What did you give it? 

Ben

I gave it an 8, and we were joking with some of our other friends about how most of us gave it an 8, and I think it was ginnymoonbeam who was like, “We all gave it an 8, but these are all very different 8s.”

[both laugh]

Nini

Yes, that is definitely true. These are different 8s that we are giving it. My 8 is like, “Damn it. Now I got to go back and revise my score of the OG series and put it even lower.”

36:45 - The Eclipse

Nini

Moving along from the 8s and now we're starting to get into the top of tops. The top top top tops of the Our Skyy pantheon for me. And next up is The Eclipse. Ben, I'm [gonna] need you to give the people what we're talking about here.

Ben

The Eclipse picks up, it feels like, the summer after the boys have graduated from high school. So, they're away from Suppalo—we're not going to deal with any of the Suppalo nonsense anymore. It's just the two couples, Wat, and…Pawin's character for some reason, because he's always palling around them. They're getting together to help Wat shoot for a film project that he wants to submit to a competition. But we pick up, originally, with Akk and Ayan who were doing boyfriend things, and we are seeing the ongoing deprogramming of Akk continuing. And over the course of the filming for this, we see that Akk and Ayan are basically stand-ins for Golf's very complex ideas about the way our private and public lives inform each other, and how both are inherently political. 

Akk and Ayan over the course of this are having a struggle about whether or not they should care what other people think. Akk thinks that to be part of a civil society you do have to care about how your actions and behaviors impact other people. Ayan, who has seen what a civil society does to people, thinks that that is bullshit and that he should be more concerned about himself and the people he cares about, and not the nebulous feelings of others. And then calls Akk directly out at one point about how his concern for others turned him into the worst version of a cop possible.

And it gets really ugly when they're working on Wat’s film project. These two are having a truly fundamental struggle about whether or not the two of them are even compatible because they do not see eye-to-eye politically. You get the sense that Ayan hoped that, once freed from the Suppalo prefect thing, Akk would start to see things more his way. And Akk hoped that Ayan would stop fighting with him so much, because Akk really just wants to do soft, cuddly things with his boyfriend. But Ayan gets off on fighting with Akk. [laughs] So he is always antagonizing him for sex reasons. 

Nini

It's one of those early relationship conflicts when you're still figuring out how to be with each other. When you're dating at the beginning, you put your best foot forward. In this case, with the two of them, they put their absolute worst foot forward when they were getting together. But there's still that thing about the version of you when you're courting is…different, somewhat, than the version of you when you're not courting. For them, the issue is the version of them when they were courting was exactly who they are, but they didn't think that that was who they were. 

So, like you said, Ayan really thought that out of the pressure cooker of Suppalo, Akk would be a different person, and then he's, like, coming to realize: No, this is really just who he is. And Akk is having that same realization about Ayan. They have to decide essentially—and they do decide via Wat's film—whether what they are to each other is worth bridging that gap between them. The answer that they come to is: yes it is—in a really phenomenal scene that I enjoyed so much.

Ben

Let me tell you. First and Khaotung are just really, really good together. Like, it's amazing how they can play these two characters coming to a precipice of fundamental political disagreement to the point that they looked at each other and they're like, “Is this really who I'm going to be with?” And you can see this almost weird resignation as they turn to face each other and embrace, where there are no easy answers to this. 

They don't see eye to eye politically on a lot of really fundamental things, and yet they still want to choose each other each time. And that is delivered so well. Like, it's hard to watch The Eclipse with your brain off. I watched a lot of people try to do it during the original show and they struggled, because it is not a brains-off show. Golf has a lot to say about the state of their country and is using whatever platform they have to voice some of these ideas, most notably about how sitting on your phone writing mean tweets is not action. That you need to get into the work. That you have to get into the streets with other people. You have to participate in the work. Even if it's just in the support of getting the people who do do the work the tools and food they need to do the work. 

And it's really fascinating that even in this little two-part special, which as far as some people thought, was just First and Khaotung making out for two hours because these boys kissed a lot in this special, they managed to say a lot. Golf managed to express their deep love of Thai cinema with the references that Wat was playing out. 

It also managed to get across how much these two boys really like each other, and it was kind of fun to see Akk and Kan working their way out of their internalized homophobia. Like it was not surprising to me that Akk and Kan wanted to do a lot of touching with their boyfriends. 

Nini

I really liked how it all came together: how Golf used their love of not just Thai cinema but queer cinema to sort of pull the threads together of the fight that Akk and Ayan were having. The petty fight and the serious fight, because they were having a fight on two levels. They were having a petty fight about—well, maybe not petty—but they were having a surface level fight about Ayan   paying attention to Akk and being lovey-dovey and soft with him, versus Ayan wanting Akk to be tougher with him because that's what he likes. And then that going to the deep level of the political, and then, on top of that, that being pulled together by the concept of film. And then even throwing in for us a little side story about Wat and what film means to him, and how he's not necessarily supported by his family—but he kind of is a little bit but mostly not—and how he has things to say and he feels strongly about those things

Like, they managed to do a lot with very little in this special and I really, really enjoyed it. It was very deep for what it was. Very thinkable piece. I really liked it. And then on top of that, they also get to have a little bit of coming-of-age nostalgia moments about leaving high school and moving into the real world. There's so much packed into those two hours. I was really impressed with how much they managed to get in there and have it feel organic.

Ben

I was incredibly impressed by this entire outing.

Nini

I liked the special on its own. I liked it in connection to the OG show. I liked it as a continuation of the OG show. I liked the things that it had to say and the way that it carried through its themes. I was impressed by how much it managed to fit in. I gave it a drama score of 9.5. I really thought it was very, very good.

Ben

But there was singing so she took half a point.

[both laugh]

Nini

I gave it a crack score of 8. The trope really was I guess “secret surprise” because the frame that this is all put in is Ayan preparing a surprise for Akk’s birthday, but it's a secret surprise where he's pretending that he doesn't remember and he's not going to celebrate Akk’s birthday, which is a little weird which is why I took the half point off really, because I hate that secret surprise trope.

Ben

It's one of those things where I don't really like it for Akk, but if fits with Ayan’s sort of, like…Ayan is the queer kid who reads too much theory. Like, he knows more than you. And so he doesn't always see you, specifically. Like, he outs Thua in the first show thinking he's helping him. Like, he kind of is but, like, he outs Thua and oversteps, and it's the same thing here with Akk. Like, he wants to surprise Akk. Like I don't think you should be surprising Akk, because so much of his Suppalo experience is about being guided by the things that are not being said that he's supposed to just interpret. 

If you're trying to deprogram him, you need to not do that to him. And the reason why, like I—I mostly let it go is because, as dense as Ayan can kind of be because he's too fucking smart for his own good, when Akk admitted in, like, the first fifteen minutes of the show that he hoped that they were gonna do cute boyfriend frolicking in the fields and taking pictures together, and Ayan was like, “Oh, I thought you were just kidding about that.”  

And Akk was like, “No! I was serious.” 

It's like, “All right? Well shit! Grab your camera!” And they frolicked! 

Nini

[laughs]

Ben

He gave his boyfriend the cute boyfriend shit he wanted to do, even if he teased him a little bit about it first.

Nini

I did like that too. I like that they don't have it together yet but they're willing to listen, and they're willing to do what it takes, I think. But, like I said, I'm knocking out a half a point for the secret surprise because I hate that trope. The crack score is an 8 because there's these set of dream sequences which are homages to Thai film and queer film, and I thought they were delightful. There's the Brokeback Mountain one and then there's the Golden Eagle one which is a Thai film then there's the Ong Bak one which is another Thai film and then there's another—

Ben

If you have not seen Ong Bak and you like action film, please go see Ong Bak. 

Nini

I have not watched Ong Bak. Of course, Ben has because he's a boy. 

Ben

I am a boy! Tony Jaa is amazing!

Nini

[laughs] I really liked that Golf gets to throw that in there as well. And it's fun. The Golden Eagle one especially is delightful. [laughs] It really is. So that's 9.5 and 8. Let's call that an 8.75. Ooh the maths is coming back! It's coming back! An 8.75 for The Eclipse.

Ben, what’d you give it?

Ben

I gave it a 9 because it's really coherent and that mattered a lot for me, because we had watched a lot of—I don't remember the exact order—but I remember just not being, like, necessarily, like, great at this point because a bunch of them were kind of…stuffed…or boring…and this wasn't. I was fully engaged the whole time, because Golf has such clear ideas in their work and they're all working together at various levels that they really wanted us to not miss.

49:50 - My School President

Nini

Moving on from The Eclipse onto the next rung on the ladder up: My School President. So the My School President fan fiction trope was AU, alternate universe, for all of the characters. I had a fucking blast with this. Ben, explain to the people what happened.

Ben

I'm gonna pre-react to the criticism, unfortunately.

My School President is a high school story about pursuing your long-term crush and the final year of your high school experience. There was no way My School President was going to get an epilogue story. So instead they flipped the seats of a bunch of the characters. 

So, in this version of the My School President story, Gun is the school president and Tinn is the member of the school band. This time named Lion instead of Chinzhilla. Instead of Tiwson being the school president's best friend, they keep Por, who is his bestie in this. Tiwson is a member of the band. Sound and Win switch positions in this, where Sound is the long-term member of the band. Win is the new hot boy who shows up who they recruit. They also decide to flip Yo and Pat in the story with each other, even though they're still both in the band. Gim becomes the principal, and Photjanee becomes the operator of the milk ice cream bar. 

And in the process of this, like, the same beats from the show. We still hit them, but they play out very differently because the core characterization of these couples don't shift. Which forces us to reckon with certain aspects of the characters that kind of get glossed over in the idealism of the original My School President run. For example, Tinn is so much braver than Gun. Gun is kind of a coward who is gripped by an intense sense of self-doubt, and it starts off almost immediately. Like there's some political commentary with the way Gun is selected as the school president. 250 votes were cast by parents to make Gun the president instead of going through the school voting process instead, which works as a quick shorthand for the show, but also works as a commentary on Thai parliamentary politics.

And so like he's not the school president because he wants to help Tinn. He's just sort of pushed into the position by his mom, and so the moments that they hit along the way, like the dancing together scene. That plays out differently because Gun backs off and ends up dancing with someone else. The whole Questions thing they did to get close to film the thing goes differently because Gun won't ask Tinn directly, but Tinn does ask him, but Gun backs down. 

It was interesting because, like, everyone still chose each other. But, like, in a weird way Tiwson and Por were the strong couple of this outing, anchoring for the rest of them. 

Like, in the original show Tinn and Gun are so obviously together that the force of their mutual attraction sort of just creates opportunity for the rest of these relationships to bubble up. This time around, Tiwson and Por are working together in the background to help Tinn and Gun get together because they want to come out as a couple. Which I thought was an interesting switch-up as well.

Nini

I really enjoyed that, despite shifting the characters around in terms of their positions and roles, that the cores of the characters remained exactly the same. And you see how the same people living a different life would become a different person. Like you talk about Gun being kind of a coward and he is kind of a coward even in the OG show. Tinn’s the brave one, and Tinn has to be the brave one because Gun's the one who's gonna back down. But also the Gun of the alternate universe—the multiverse of cuteness as it is called—the Gun of the alternate universe hasn't spent his whole life on stage being judged and knocked back. And developing that thick skin that he talks to Tinn about in the OG series, so he is much less resilient than the Gun of the OG series. And that makes a difference in how he navigates his crush on Tinn. 

Similarly to that, Tinn in the AU has not had the strictness of the OG Photjanee forced on him the whole time. The strictness and the straight lace-ness because things are a little looser for him. And so he feels more able to take the ball and run with it when he realizes how he feels. They redo the scene of them spending the night at the school and walking around, and this is where Tinn turns the Gun and is like, “Look, do you like me?” which is something Tinn wouldn't necessarily have asked in the OG series. 

But then Gun, faced with the opportunity to actually lock it down with his crush. He says no and he runs away which is not a thing that Tinn would have done. If Gun had ginned up the, the actual courage to ask Tinn if he liked him Tinn would have been like [inhales] taken a deep breath and been like, “Hell yell, let’s date.” It's really interesting watching how they take the same characters and, just by moving their positions in the story, they create a story that's different. 

Ben

And yet all the people still choose each other. They basically state the big idea at one point. The Gun character says maybe in another lifetime things would have gone better, and the Por and Tiwson of this universe slap that idea down and go, “Yeah, but you're not in those universes. You're in this one. Make the most of the life you have.” 

Nini

I really enjoyed this outing. I enjoyed what they took the opportunity of the Our Skyy special to say and to do. I agree with you. I don't think that an epilogue would have worked. My School President is so of its setting. I do not think that moving the boys into college and following them there—I don't feel like I would have been interested in seeing that because that's not the point of My School President.

My tagline for My School President was “perfect high school romance” and I think that's where it should stay.

Okay, so my drama score for My School President was 9.5, and I took off a half point because nobody made out. And, I'm sorry, I am shallow. I wanted somebody to kiss in this special. I didn't care who. Just somebody. So I took off half a point. But the crack score is a 10 because I mean it's an AU. There is nothing crackier than that, so that works out to what, like a 9.75? Yeah, I'm good with that.

Ben

So, I gave this one a 9 because it was a little heady and My School President is not a really heady show for me. But the whole AU concept was. Now, I liked it, but in terms of, like, recommending it to the people who liked My School President, it's kind of hard because they wanted more of what they loved in My School President and this is not exactly that? So, I gave it a 9. 

But I'm also with Nini, like nobody kissed in this one. And, again, young actors. I'm totally fine with them not kissing, but…their characters in the original show have really specific kisses, and, if they were more experienced and veteran actors, we would have gotten a different type of kiss from these characters because they are coming at each other very differently. And we don't get to offer that particular comparison here. So, minor knock for me as well.

Nini

We didn't even get to talk about the best part which was them doing a fake music video for a fake Aof song that incorporated Aof’s top three hits in the music videos, which are He’s Coming to Me, Bad Buddy, and A Tale of Thousand Stars. 

Ben

We didn't even talk about that.

Nini

Tiw and Por got to do A Tale of Thousand Stars. Sound and Win get to do Bad Buddy. And Gun and Tinn get to do He’s Coming to Me. So they, they paid homage to their granddaddy in "Aof" Noppharnach Chaiyahwimhon. Three of the greatest GMMTV BLs, and also the ones that sort of set the stage for My School President.

1:00:24 - Bad Buddy x A Tale of Thousand Stars

Nini

Onto the main event, and the main event of Our Skyy 2 was "Aof" Noppharnach giving the finger to GMMTV and saying, “Fuck you, I get four episodes to talk about what I want. And what I want to talk about is queer elders coming to terms with themselves, and I'm going to use anybody I want to talk about that.” AKA the Bad Buddy - A Tale of Thousand Stars crossover event. 

Ben, break it down for the people.

Ben

Whereas every other one of these projects except for My School President was in many ways an epilogue this is a mixture of…it's an epilogue or a post-show story for Tian and Phupha, but for Pran and Pat it's set between Bad Buddy episode 11 and Bad Buddy episode 12. It's the senior year for Pat and Pran. They are still closeted and having to keep up the architecture-engineering rivalry, though it looks like they've tried to smooth things over over the years because most of the beef is about who's bringing…brooms to…the charity project now. [laughs] But they're having some consternation because both groups need to put on a play as part of their class president activities, and after the normal Bad Buddy hijinks kick in, Pran reveals that he wants to adapt Tian's diary A Tale of Thousand Stars into a play for the architecture school.

And once they decide to follow this route, their teacher says that, because they don't have permission from the people whose story this actually is, they need to go find them and get said permission. Pran decides that they're going to go to Pha Pun Dao to talk to them directly, tell them how important it is that they want to tell this particular story. 

Before they can leave, Pat is forced to hang out with his engineering buddies and, because he has to pretend like he doesn't like Pran, he says something akin to, “That Pran guy. He'd be useless without me. I'm always having to help him.” Pran felt some kind of way about that and decided to leave Pat behind and go to Pha Pun Dao himself—much to his own chagrin—because he loves that boy, and got so nervous when he was walking around by himself without Pat. 

And over the course of these four episodes, Pat and Pran learn a little bit more about themselves and their dynamic—but mostly they really help Tian and Phupha work past some really fundamental struggles that they were having as a couple that Pat and Pran realized that they had moved past a long time ago. 

This crossover really elevates both works because Aof is obsessed with the idea that queer people make each other better and, by the end of this, we as a fandom seem rather split about it because those of us who liked both A Tale of Thousand Stars and Bad Buddy were able to appreciate how both stories impact each other. But, it seems like if you were really only into one of those stories, you resented the crossover in one way or another.

Nini

I think that's one reaction to it, but, I mean, we've seen among the clowns even people who were really into Bad Buddy but not so into A Tale of Thousand Stars really coming around on Tian and Phupha by the end of the special. I don't think we have like a Vice Versa situation in that, and we can discuss all the reasons that might be, but I think that definitely the crossover has made people who maybe didn't appreciate A Tale of Thousand Stars as much really appreciate A Tale of Thousand Stars and Tian and Phupha more now.

Ben

So where do you want to pick up with the beginning of this discussion? 

Nini

I think I want to start with the idea one of our fellow clowns first espoused, and really sort of set me off on this thought process, that this special—this whole crossover—is all about Phupha. Because, of all four characters in the OG shows, the only character who didn't really get an arc  was Phupha—this is Phupha’s arc. How do you feel about that as an idea—as a concept?

Ben

Since we're gonna start here, I'm gonna come out swinging.

Nini

Do it.

Ben

If you hate that Phupha is the focus character of this particular special, I need you to examine whether or not you actually care about gay men.

Phupha is a poor, hyper-masculine, closeted gay man, who's older than the other characters. He's about 35 at this point. There are so many queer people out there that you're never going to know about because they cannot live their lives loudly. 

We're recording in June right now. Pride month. Phupha’s not gonna show up at Bangkok Pride because 1) he's not coming to Bangkok, and 2) that's just not the place where he feels safe. It's not the place where he feels seen. It's not where all of the quiet gays are gonna go, or where the gays who have to be closeted for one reason or another are going to be. And it's easy to forget them because they're boring or they're less fun. 

I like that the story ends up being about: “How do we help Phupha break out of his own shell a little bit and let Tian love him just a little bit more?”

Nini

Phupha is this sort of stoic, very stern, character. I mean they lampooned that a little bit in the OG series for A Tale of Thousand Stars, and they lampoon him a little bit in the beginning of the crossover here, deflating him a little bit—kind of puncturing the whole stoic seme thing. But this is kind of who he is. 

This is, as you say, he's older. He's got real responsibilities. He's got a community to protect. He's…got people that he cares about that he needs to take care of. He is not the kind of guy who is going to, like you say, go to Bangkok Pride. He is the kind of guy who maybe has some internalized homophobia that he's dealing with—definitely has some internalized homophobia that he's dealing with. He is that guy who is trying to do the right thing all the time. And so often the right thing means him subsuming his actual desires in some kind of idea of him denying himself being what's best for the community.

And one of the things that the crossover brings forward, particularly in the person of Pat, who is diametrically opposed to the idea of subsuming himself for anybody. He only does it for Pran, and only, like, grudgingly. But, to put somebody like Pat, who is just loud and proud and just completely does not care about any ideas of masculinity or propriety or anything like that, and put that character in conversation of any kind with Phupha. It's so delightful to watch that happen because, of course, Pat immediately gloms onto him. He follows him around like a duckling—he imprints on him. 

He's like, “Oh, yes, Stern Daddy. I really, really like this vibe that you're givin’ off here. I'm just going to follow you around and bother the fuck out of you.” 

I think it was wen-kexing-apologist who said that Pat's entire job in the special is to terrorize the local elder gay. I Love it.

Ben

Pat and Pran. They both looked at Phupha, looked at each other, and then both said at the same time ‘WOULD.’ 

[both laugh]

Nini

I did see that. That was funny because it's true. They hang a lampshade on it at two points 1) when Pran runs into Phupha for the first time—him really having, like, a gay boy moment. [laughs] Like, the whole, like, slow-motion, turn-around, like, gasping gay boy moment.

Ben

He's read the, the diary and he's like “I get it.” Immediately!

[both laugh]

Nini

And then, to have Pat's moment come, where—because Pat's flirtation language is competition. So, of course he basically challenges Phupha to a duel in the form of a drinking contest. And then they wake up shirtless next to each other and think that they might have maybe…done something— 

Ben

They definitely did some stuff.

Nini

They made out. Just a little bit. They kissed a little bit. 

But I—I loved that! I loved that they were both really into him. Like it was clear that they were both attracted to him. It was very gay and very fun. But also they're just like, “No, I get it.” They—they both looked and they were just like, “Tian, I get you. I understand why you live in this village with [both laugh] no running water, and you have to sleep under a mosquito net every night. I get you! I understand you because, for this man, I would do these things.” Like, they get it.

It's kind of delightful.

Ben

I like how, when Pran first gets to the village, and Phupha passes out, Tian runs up and Pran’s like ‘who are you’ and Tian's like, “No. Who the fuck are you?”

[Nini laughs]

Ben

And, like, if Tian had been allowed to have a knife…

Nini

Pran would have been stopped at that point—fully stabbed. “Like, who the fuck are you and why are you talking to my man?” [laughs] Like, Tian lives in the village because he doesn't want anybody else to see Phupha. 

[both laugh]

Nini

Because he knows the minute any of these whores take a look at his man, if it's going to be a problem. 

Ben

In terms of the serious stuff. So, they've shown up to convince them to sign these papers. Going into this Pat and Pran are fighting a little bit because Pran feels guilty, and part of this journey for him was maybe seeing, like, if he actually needed Pat as much as he does. And he learns very quickly that he is not at his best without Pat. 

It's funny because Pat always knew this. Pat seemed to know already. Like, he says it in like episode 5 of Bad Buddy that he was not at his best when Pran was gone. 

But Pran wants to prove he doesn't need Pat's help, and when Pran shows up to try and convince him to sign Tian's like, “Fuck yeah! I wrote the diary so people would…maybe want to become teachers and appreciate what I have out here. Absolutely!” Phupha's like, “No, y'all not going to present me as some lovesick fool on your little stage.” 

And then Pran tries to talk to Phupha a couple of times and fails massively at it. Tries to lie to Phupha. And then Pat blocks the shit out of that by calling out the bullshit right away, because he's pissed at Pran for running off without him. So he's sabotaging some of Pran's efforts. And it isn't until the two of them start working together that they actually start making any fucking progress because…that's who they are.

Nini

But I think there's also, like, a really valid point to the fact that Pran—he tries to talk to Phupha about it at first and Phupha is not having it. You're right. But one of the reasons that Phupha is not having it is because he's looking at these kids and he's thinking, “These kids do not understand me. These kids have no idea of what my life is like. These kids have no idea of what our lives are like. These kids have never faced any kind of serious challenge. These are two dumb kids. I'm not gonna give them time of day. They don't get to tell my story.” 

And then, by the end, the thing that actually gets Phupha to agree to let them tell his story…is Pran actually dropping the bullshit—as you said—and saying to him, “You think I don't know what it's like to feel insecure? You think I don't know what it's like to feel like my partner deserves better than me? You think I don't know what that feels like? Oh, believe you me, I know what that feels like.” 

And, because at this point Phupha has spent an enormous amount of time with Pat, he's like,

“Okay, yeah, maybe you do understand what I'm going through.” 

And the way that that works out in the end—and I mean we're kind of skipping back and forth through the story at this point—but the way that that works out at the end is Phupha saying, “Okay, you get to tell my story, but you have to tell my story because you understand me.” His condition for signing off on them doing the play is that they play the roles of him and Tian, because they understand him. I thought that was really—a really great way to follow that thread through the story. I really enjoyed that part.

Ben

I like the subtle way Aof played with our expectations about who would identify with who. Like, they made Tian and Pran resemble each other. Tian was like, “Fuck this twink,” right away as soon as Pran showed up. 

[Nini laughs]

But then, like, Pran helps him. Pran helps him in the class and Tian softens very quickly to Pran. 

Because of how physically macho Pat is—like, there's this expectation that he and Phupha are gonna be super similar to each other—and there's an interesting subtle commentary that Aof does there in that it's the more creative one, who's way too close to his mom, who's more like the hyper-masculine dude, because both of them are masking in their lives. 

Like, Phupha is hyper-masculine because that's what's expected of him. And like people pick at Phupha about this a little bit, but he is trying to live up to the role that he is told he's supposed to fulfill. And Pran also suffers under the expectations of who his mom expects him to be, and it's interesting for me that Aof, over the course of these three episodes when they're all together, Aof says Pran and Phupha have more in common because they are carrying so much homophobia on their shoulders, and that's why the two of them probably understand each other best.

Nini

Using the yaoi tropes again, a talk about who is the seme and who's the uke in the story in terms of who's the pursuer and who's the pursued, and…if you look at it, like, then you can clearly see that it's Tian and Pat who are aligned because Pat pursued Pran and Tian pursued Phupha. They are the semes even though it seems that Tian would be an uke. He's not. He actually pursued Phupha. 

So in the narrative sense. He's the seme. It's just very fun, this playing with the idea of what is a seme and what is an uke. And, again to use the yaoi terms—which you know I don't like to use ‘cause I don't really know the yaoi or rock with the yaoi. But, that idea of who is…pursuing the relationship, leading the relationship—like that's Tian and that's Pat. 

And in terms of who is being pulled along by their partner in a kind of a way that's Phupha and that’s Pran. So, I do like how Aof leans into this…because again, it subverts expectations in a particular kind of way. But also it makes so much sense. 

Ben

There's two subtle things that I really want to point out, and I want to talk about them a little.

First, Pat and Pran use titles for Tian and Phupha the whole time. And the other thing is about how nobody really knows anything about anybody in this. So, like, we're gonna call them Tian and Phupha, Pat and Pran, because we're inside of these people's stories with them. But it's interesting to me that Pran and Pat never cross a familiarity line with Tian and Phupha in the brief time they're with them. They refer to them as Teacher and Chief only the entire time.

Nini

I like that because it's a nod to their roles as adults because Pat and Pran are still kids. They're still college students, and Tian and Phupha are adults to them. But, in some ways, Pat and Pran have progressed much further in their relationship than Tian and Phupha have because they've been through more—just from the nature of their whole history. And they've crossed barriers and boundaries and, and parts of their relationship that Tian and Phupha are just confronting or haven't even confronted yet. And I liked that. 

I liked, also, that interplay of the younger ones being the ones to teach the older ones something. I really like that because I feel like that's what's happening now not just in—not just in queer circles—because that's definitely happening in queer circles. But also just in terms of generalization. Like, if you're not a complete douche and you're our age—well I say our age. I'm about 10 years older than Ben. Not ten, but…when you've crossed a certain Rubicon in the adulting game. Let's put it that way.

Right now. The kids are teaching us like a whole bunch of stuff as long as you're not a dick, like, and you remain open, the kids can teach you all kinds of shit that you never thought was possible to learn about yourself at this stage in your life. And I really like that Aof played with that because Aof’s about my age, and I like that he is the kind of person who understands that the young uns have things to teach us as well. Like, we have things to teach them—clearly and obviously—and we want to make a better world for them—clearly and obviously. But also, there's so much shit that we can learn from them when it comes to just fucking unclenching, because that's what happens here! Like, all of this is in service of Phupha just fucking unclenching. 

Ben

And this is what I mean about having other queer people, like it isn't just about your boyfriend. You need queer friends. Like, Tian blossoms almost immediately when he realizes that Pat and Pran are a couple—that they're not just friends. As soon as Pat flirts with him a little bit at breakfast and Pran shoves a spoon into his mouth, you can see Tian instantly relaxes and it's like, “Okay” and is more receptive to what these two are here for. And for Phupha. Like, yeah, it's one thing to just be into Tian and that be a thing, but to have someone like Pat roaming around actively flirting with him all the time, that also forced Phupha to reckon with who he is. 

And it's funny, because, like, Pat and Pran are actually closeted. They basically, like, admit it to Tian and Phupha as a sort of a de facto thing. But, like, the two of them are away from the world where they have to hide. So they're on top of each other. They're constantly touching each other. They're flirting constantly…

Nini

They're fucking in the tent twenty feet away from them. [laughs]

Ben

We'll get there in a second. We’ll be there in a second. [Nini laughs] But they're so obviously obsessed with each other. And like Nini said, like during the rescue bit, Kampung is not in the tent with them where he's supposed to be. And so the boys are like, “Oh, I guess the kid decided to go stay with Phupha and Tian. Great! My foot is hurting me because I twisted my ankle, but let's get it in!” And then in the morning Pat limps to breakfast asking, “What's my score for last night?”

Nini

I love that they just fuck their way through all their problems. It's delightful. I enjoy it.

Ben

One of the sad things with Tian and Phupha is…they have to keep waiting for the other person to be asleep to be affectionate with them, and that's one of the big things that I'm really glad that they start to work through towards the end of this. Like, I'm really proud of Phupha for listening to the man who he loves, and the person who is inspired by the man who he loves. 

Like, it’s so fascinating. Like—like Pran ran on this whole trip thinking he was Tian, met Phupha, realized he was Phupha, and was able to reach across that gap and say, “Please trust me. We got you.” And Phupha said, “Okay.” 

There's a lot of consternation in the fandom right now about taking score between Pat and Pran about who sacrifices more, or what should or shouldn't be said. I'm not particularly interested in that particular conversation. Pat and Pran love each other. They're adults. They've committed to each other. Sometimes you're gonna be with other gays and you're not going to understand how they work, and you just have to accept that their dynamic is their dynamic. It's not about who wins. It's about who cares for you—and they clearly care for each other.

Nini

I think part of what it is, as well, is—it sounds bad, but go with me on this right? I am a great proponent of therapy. I believe in it. I am in therapy. I have been in therapy for years. I recommend therapy to everybody. But there is a certain level of therapized that I think is not necessarily good for us…And that is as somebody who believes in the power of therapy to change and save lives. I think that this idea that everything is pathologized, that you always have to be on the lookout because somebody's trying to get you in some kind of way—I think that it can be harmful to relationships and to our understanding of relationships in certain ways, because not everything that is unbalanced or imbalanced is harmful. 

And I think that one of the problems that I'm having with…not so much the show, but the fandom reaction to it is…that yes, Pat and Pran’s relationship looks unbalanced from the outside. It probably is unbalanced in certain ways. But that doesn't mean that it's harmful. But there's this idea that because of—again this is a, a therapized lens that unbalanced equals harmful, and I don't think that's necessarily the case. 

One of the things that I really don't grok onto and, to be fair…I am very…I am a Bad Buddy fun. I am a Pat and Pran fan. I am a fan of the characters separately and together. And one of the things that…I am really personally sticky and icky about is this idea in certain parts…that Pat and Pran do not love each other equally, or Pran does not love Pat enough, or Pat loves Pran more—all these ideas of particular kind of imbalances between them. And my whole thing is—Who are they and what do they need and what do they want from each other? What does Pat actually need from Pran? Is he getting it? He absolutely is.

So this idea of keeping score between the characters—or keeping score in relationships in general if you, if you broaden out to the idea of relationships—I feel like it doesn't serve. I feel like it's…reductive. And I feel like looking at these characters through that lens is not the way that Aof is portraying these characters, or wants the audience to look at these characters. Because I think that Aof is a person who is…very tuned into certain ideas that he wants to portray—certain things that he wants to portray about queerness and queer community and queer relationships—and…I think that to reduce probably the greatest queer relationship that he has put on screen in Pat and Pran to score keeping, when score keeping is a part of their history that they have deliberately stepped away from because they were forced into it. I feel like it misunderstands what he's trying to do and say with these characters…

And that's just my opinion, and I will admit a hundred percent that I am very precious about these two particular characters. I'm very precious about a lot of Aof characters because I feel that Aof writes characters in a way that I understand them intrinsically. But these two characters in particular I feel very precious about. And, I feel like to see them like that in the context of somehow keeping score between them is to not see them at all.

Ben

Pat only cares about one score and he asks Pran for it directly every morning.

Nini

And that's a fact. [laughs]

Ben

And that's the big thing for me! Like, they were kind of having a fight and most of it was Pran’s insecurity because Pran is a little bit embarrassed about what he's asked Pat to do for him. And they get over that almost immediately. They get to Pha Pun Dao. They see Tian and Phupha and they're like, “Oh, man. These guys are older than us, but they're like…four episodes behind us. [laughs] So, we got to catch these gays up quick!” And they—they instantly get over whatever their beef is and they start playing out their kinks the way they always do. They start cosplaying as Tian and Phupha…and flirting with each other.

Nini

And they do in the end have a little bit of a resolution to their…really not much of a fight, fight. And, there's two resolutions, really. 

The first resolution is the resolution they get in Pha Pun Dao which is, “Look, I can't fucking live without you, and you can't fucking live without me, and we agree on that. So, let's dead the shit.” And they did! And it was fine, because the shit was never really live in terms of a fight being live in the first place. They were fucking their way through that whole fight…and that's how they deal with things, and it works for them, and it's fine. 

And then they get a second resolution that Phupha gives them—a gift—which is, “I get to be in the open with you, even if it's just on stage. I get to be a lover in public.” And it works for me.

Ben

They even tried to redeem Wai a little bit.

Nini

It's still fuck Wai forever in these parts.

Ben

[laughs] He doesn't drop the curtain this time. Instead, he's like, “Give the people the kiss they need!”

Nini

It's still fuck Wai forever in these parts. [laughs]

Ben

And it's interesting, too, in terms of that particular gift. It works out in a couple of ways because Phupha gets to see a bunch of people react to their story. People are loving it. Lesbians are crying over them. One of the lesbians is moaning, “Why don't they just fuck already!” 

[both laugh]

Ben

He gets to see people love them through this play, and then this gives Pran something that he's wanted: Pran his on socials after the play seeing people making fanvids about him and Pat. Which is something that he wants. He wants to be in the open with Pat because he knows that's what Pat wants, and this is the closest they're gonna get for now. And he is relieved to just see that. 

But again, Pat is not worried about that. He's like, “Oh good, good. Did you get what you want?” and he's like, “All right. Let's stop fucking around with all this other stuff. Can we kiss as ourselves now?” 

And they do!

Nini

We've talked a lot about Pat and Pran here and we've kind of scratched the surface on Tian and Phupha. But I really want to get into Phupha because the main thing that the special is doing is unlocking Phupha for the audience, because—like I said—all the other characters have had their arcs in the OG series that we're looking at. Only Phupha has really been holding the line, so to speak. 

And this is Phupha's unveiling. It's his opening. This is Phupha getting harassed by a baby gay. Terrorized, actually, by a baby gay. Realizing that, “Oh my god. The baby gays came to town, and they fucked in a tent twenty feet away from us, and the world didn't fucking end. So maybe…I, too, can fuck my man and the world won’t end.” 

[both laugh]

And then he proceeds to do just that.

Ben

I really like the way Aof went about doing it. Phupha primps himself up, rents an expensive vehicle, picks up Tian, and then goes with Tian to a cute cafe and lets Tian show him off a little bit, even if it made him a little bit nervous to be fawned over.

Nini

He let Tian, like, dress him up! Like, he let Tian take him shopping! He let Tian babygirl him a little bit. He let Tian spend a little money! It was nice!

Ben

That felt like a big deal because he mentioned it. He's like the money on one of these dishes could feed the village for a week in Pha Pun Dao, but he lets it go. Tian is actually a rich kid. This is part of what Phupha knows Tian gave up to be with him and so, when they're in Bangkok, he relents. He lets Tian dress him up like a Ken until Tian is satisfied with the look. And unsurprisingly, Tian chooses something very sleek, masculine, and comfortable for Phupha.

And then Phupha shows up and meets the parents. This is a huge deal too because Phupha was nervous about this because he feels like he took their son from them, and that he overstepped because Tian's dad was once a superior in the military. And all they say is, “We're gonna give you the thing that's most important to us. Take care of it.” And they acknowledge his filial piety to his father when Tian—when Phupha—admits that the reason he's a forest ranger is because his dad loved that mountain and felt a need to take care of it and the people who maintain it. And they were like, “Respect that.”

And then he proposes!

Nini

Okay y’all know how I feel about the BL weddings and the BL proposals. Y’all know that I am usually kind of, like, sitting in the corner, like, with my hands over my eyes. But this one, y'all, I was deep in my feelings. The tears came out. It was beautiful. I fucking loved this proposal. It was perfect.

Ben

I think I liked it because it wasn't a grand gesture in front of a bunch of people.

Nini

That's exactly why I liked it. [laughs]

Ben

It was for them. It was Phupha finally saying that he wasn't going to hold back anymore, and then they had loud obnoxious sex in the hotel room.

Nini

I just like that the loud obnoxious sex started like way before this. Like, the loud obnoxious sex started—like the idea of loud obnoxious sex of course was started by Pat, because that's Pat's entire brand. When he was walking around in the forest with Phupha, like, pretending to worry about Pran when he knows Pran is gonna be fine, and telling Phupha, like, “I mean I'm just going to sniff him out and, like, what do you mean you're not going to sniff out your man. Like, don't you know what he smells like? He smells so good.”

[both laugh]

Ben

You know, I don't think that's underlined really loudly in the show but like Pat says it quite plainly to Tian. He's like, “We don't need to go roaming around. Phupha’s experienced and good at his job, and Pran's really smart. We should really just stay here.”

[both laugh]

Like, nobody believes in Pran more than Pat.

Nini

Nobody. Absolutely nobody. Pat is like, “Listen. He's gonna be fine. I'm not particularly worried about him.” Like, both times. Both when he was wandering around in the woods with Phupha and when he was trying to get Tian to sit his ass down and be a heart patient like he's supposed to be. Both times he's just like, “I am not worried about Pran. Like, can we just focus on what the real problem is here. The real problem here is that your man is going unsniffed. Y’all are having a fight that y'all don't need to be having.” 

I loved Pat’s whole energy in Pha Pun Dao. He was just like, “I'm just gonna vibe. I'm just glad to be here. I like being able to be out in the open with Pran. We are literally a million miles away from Bangkok. I can just be out here and just love on Pran the way that I feel like lovin’ on Pran—” 

Ben

“I'm here to test the structural integrity of the teacher's house.”

Nini

All of that! “I'm here to fuck in a tent and ask the next morning if I did good.” He was just vibing the entire time, and then he got the bonus vibe of running into Phupha who he has—I'm sorry—a major fucking crush on. He does. It’s canon. We're gonna leave it at that. He brought the sex pest fairy godmother energy to Pha Pun Dao, and he's just like, “Listen, y'all are having a fight. Have you tried fucking about it? I have found that to be a very—”

[Ben laughs]

“—I found that to be very helpful method of solving problems. Y’all should just fuck! Give him a good old sniff. He smells real good. Have you noticed that?” 

And it works! Like, Phupha at first is like, “Oh my God, get this kid away from me.”

Ben

Pat said, “Dick is not magical. It doesn't fix you. But! You look like you could use a little bit of a stress release.”

[both laugh]

Nini

And he's not wrong. And I love that despite the fact that Phupha spends the entire time being like, “Oh my God, child, get away from me. You are so annoying.” The minute Patt leaves, he's just like, “Okay. I'm [gonna] try what the kid said.” 

And he does it!

Ben

He goes back to all of their most romantic moments that he downplayed previously and gives them to Tian. Tian doesn't even know what to do with it at first because they've been so cold for a while.

Nini

He takes Tian back to the waterfall, and he's just like, “You said that I sneaked to look at you and I did but I ain't sneaking now! I'ma look.” And then he goes further than that. He said, “Not only am I going to look. I am going to make sure that you get a good look.” 

Ben

[singsong] Take a good hard look!

Nini

And like, like you said at first Tian is like, “What is happening here?” because Phupha is being so open, which I don't think he's ever been before.

Ben

And, like, Phupha was kind of manipulative about it because he made Tian relent and so Tian thought he was being, like, punished at first. Like, Phupha was teasing him because Tian's never made his attraction really quiet.

And then they finally get the stern dicking they've been needing. And Phupha…steals a line from the kids: “What's my score for last night?”

Nini

It was so fun. And Tian is just like, “Your what?” Like, Tian is fully enjoying this and I love that for him because one of the things I think people forget throughout the course of A Tale of Thousand Stars is that the Tian who starts the tale—he's sexy! Tian at the beginning of the story, he's got this edge to him. The sexy edge, and that kinda gets whittled away a little bit in Pha Pun Dao. But, that's still who he is. 

And I like that at the end of the tale when we get here to the epilogue that he gets to be that again. He gets to pull out that sexy edge that is part of him and use it on his man. Like, he babygirls him, he takes him shopping, and then, when he lookin’ all nice, he leans into him and he be like, “You're real handsome. Do you have a boyfriend?” And I'm just like this is Tian! This is Tian that I remember!

Ben

And then he pushes Phupha in that bed, and he's like, “I've been waiting for five years. I'm ‘bout to get what's mine.”

[both laugh]

Nini

Phupha’s like, “What are you doing?” He's like, “Don't worry about it.” [laughs]

Ben

He’s like, “Don't worry about it, babygirl. I’ma take care of you tonight.”

[both laugh]

Nini

And I love that. I love that so much. Phupha is, like, panicked about it for a minute, and he's like [sighs]. He's decides. He's like, “Let go, let flow.” He's like, “All right. This how you want it?” and Tian's like, “Uh-huh,” and he's like, “All right, let's do this!” [laughs] I loved It. I loved it so much. 

I love that at this stage of his life Phupha just learns to like—you know what? He's like, “Sometimes you just gotta un-fucking-clench.” And he just, he lets it all go.

Ben

I don't usually like talking about sexual positions around here because…of the way people project onto them, but I really like the implication in the final scene that this might be the first time Phupha really switches with Tian in a way that's also him emotionally… because you do have to unclench if you want to enjoy that particular act.

Nini

[laughs] In more ways than one!

Ben

It works really well because of the proposal. Like, Phupha's putting it all in the line. He's actually putting himself on the line. And he's going to be a complete partner to Tian, and is also going to relent and let Tian have some of the things that he wants. 

Like Tian is happy in Pha Pun Dao. He doesn't hate their lives there. He just says, “I want you to come home and see my parents once a year. It's important to me. I just want you to come down for that. And when we're here, let me treat you nicely.” 

Like, even if their lives aren't gonna always be there—like Tian may someday have to take care of the responsibilities of his parents getting older. But, I feel better about them facing that now as two people who are fully committed to each other than Phupha’s whole waiting-for-the-other-shoe-to-drop thing all the time.

Nini

I just…really liked…getting to see…Phupha just…be… We never get to see him just be. Once he internalizes what Pat and Pran say to him, at every point from then what we see is him getting to just be. Yeah, in a slutty way—which I personally enjoy. But also just not worrying so much about what the things he's doing say about him. And yeah, there are, like, moments of that, like, when they get to the play and the curtain goes up, you see him starting to, like, freak out a little bit. But as the play goes on he relaxes.

I like that he leans into both the relaxed energy and the slutty energy, because I feel like the slutty energy is incredibly important. Like, one of the things that I really enjoyed about the final episode of the crossover was that mosquito net moment because—

Ben

Oh my God…finally.

Nini

That's so many things! That's Aof acknowledging that he was maybe slightly too precious with their sexuality in A Tale of Thousand Stars. That's Aof acknowledging that, maybe yeah, they should have kissed there. That's also Phupha acknowledging a bunch of stuff. That's also Tian getting to recast those moments in his mind.

Ben

I also love that Aof basically gave them the Bad Buddy post-credits scene.

Nini

Now, everybody’s saying that, but to me I just remember that the A Tale of Thousand Stars post-credits scene wasn't sideways either. Like, they wrastled in that A Tale of Thousand Stars post-credits scene. Like, Tian had to ask for the dick but he got it.

Ben

I'm just very satisfied by the outing this time.

Nini

I really, really enjoyed it, and I think that a lot of the Sturm und Drang around it is because of these ideas—again once again—these ideas about balance, and feeling like it was maybe unbalanced between Pat and Pran, and Tian and Phupha. But I don't think those ideas of balance are relevant to what Aof was trying to do here. I think that using Pat and Pran—who are a solid, established couple who we know are pulling through anything because we've seen their future already—using them as a conduit, or a catalyst, or a support to pull Tian and Phupha through a hurdle that could break them. I was fine with it in the end. 

Like, I went through a lot of like—you know. I mean, you know because you were in these discussions with me and you and the clowns, like, sort of pulling through, like, how we feel about this. 

Ben

Everybody else is having a difficult time. I was vibing so hard for like—[laughs] for like two weeks! Everybody else is like, “Oh I don't like this episode!!” Like, everybody was mad after episode 3! Me…I thought that episode was great. They're like, “I hate how long they were lost in the woods.” I'm like, “Well, that was the whole point.”

They were lost in the woods. They were all circling around an issue, and the issue is really simple. Like, just sit still and let other people find you. Because that's what you need to do, baby gays, sometimes, it's sit still so we can fucking find you! And help you!

[both laugh]

Ben

All right! Let's talk about the actors.

Nini

Watching these four get to vibe together. I want to see it. And not just the four of them vibing together, but…the…pairings because they gave us like a mix and match. So, they gave us every single pairing that you could get out of these four actors, and everyone was delightful and delectable. And I enjoyed every single one of them, but I particularly enjoyed pairing Ohm with Earth. 

Ben

I really liked… the pairing of Nanon and Mix, and I don't know what we need to do to see those two work together again, but I would like to see the two of them take on meaty characters together.

Nini

I mean they're gonna be in The Jungle together. 

Ben

Are they? Well well well…

Nini

Yeah, maybe you might have to watch The Jungle. [laughs]

Ben might have to watch a straight show!

Ben

No…we just did that! It sucked!

[both laugh]

Ben

I loved Mix in this. Like, we've seen MIx and Earth together a couple of times, and you talked about this during episode two. Their drunken walk home together felt like Phupha and Tian, not Jim and Wen.

Nini

They made it feel so different, even with similar framing, even with similar camera work, even with the same actors, and the same director. They made that moment feel completely different from Jim and Wen's moment doing the same activity, and I—hats off, I bow down. I appreciate actors—y’all know that.

Ben

I like how all four of them managed to make their dynamics feel lived in.

Like, Pat and Pran felt settled. Like, they have some long-term difficulties to deal with—some of which are never gonna go away—but it was kind of interesting for me knowing that they're rock solid by the end of BB 12 that you can see them starting to get there now. Where Pran is nervous that this can't work forever because Pat is too loud. He…needs to be loud about stuff.

But, like, you can see the signs here of them giving themselves openings. Here, like with the play, with Pat going home to his dad later and giving him the liquor that Pran got in Singapore, loudly climbing through Pran's window when he comes back to Bangkok…to go play with his guitar in his room.

Nini

Pat needs to be loud. Pran knows Pat needs to be loud. And the journey that they're setting off on through the special—I can't even say that it culminates in Bad Buddy 12 ‘cause it doesn't. It continues in Bad Buddy 12, but it culminates at some point in a future that we don't get to see. And there's something to be said about Aof putting that way-way off…and the things that he wants to say to the baby gays and the elder gays.

Hoo! Man, I've been feeling Aof lately. Like, Moonlight Chicken, like, unraveled something in me. And going back to some of his earlier works in the light of Moonlight Chicken because part of the whole point of the crossover—and of crossovers in general—but in this particular crossover is intertextuality. When we were talking about Bad Buddy. When we were, like, thick in the things of Bad Buddy. We're talking about text and subtext and metatext working together to tell this story, and the thing that didn't become a part of that story—there were hints of it, mostly in the Pa and Ink storyline—but the thing that was hinted at, but not really fully grasped onto, was intertextuality.

Like, the conversation that different pieces of art are having between themselves. And one thing that this special—that the crossover delves into now—is the intertextuality.

Ben

I particularly like it because you have two leads interacting with each other and I find that sometimes we can get a little too archetypical about the leads of shows. By forcing the audience to consider who Pat and Pran are relative to Tian and Phupha, it forces you to revisit how you've been viewing them the whole time. Like, Pran thinking that he was Tian, and us maybe getting a little too caught up in that. Because, like we called it at the end of the first episode! We're like, “Why does he look so much like Tian? That feels off.” And it was off! 

Oh. I wasn't trying to make a pun there.

He's not like Tian. Like, as soon as I saw them I was like, “Why would they compare him to Tian? He doesn't feel like Tian to me?” I was right! And so, we get to the end of this whole shebang, and I am having a blast. Like I'm watching people having to sort themselves out like “Did I like this? Did I not like this?” 

I was drinking a mojito, having a good time, after this ended. I was drunk at the reception hanging out with some lesbians.

Nini

I mean in the end is it not the place that you want to be? I feel like it all worked out super well, and one of the reasons that it worked out super well is that these two stories had to be in some ways told together. And yeah, one got a little subsumed to the other. But that's the way that it had to be at this point in time.

Ben

I think it was pragmatic.

Nini

Yeah, I think if we had caught up with them and done this crossover at a different stage in each of their relationships a different problem would have come to the surface, and maybe a different arrangement of the two couples might have happened. And that's also something that we need to think about in terms of the specifics of when in the story narrative and the timeline of the stories that Aof chose to set this particular crossover. 

When it comes to Aof I'm always thinking about what he's trying to do, because one of the things that has been very clear to me throughout his oeuvre, but particularly in Bad Buddy, is that…he is always going to tell the story that he wants to tell. He's not overly concerned about making it fit into certain narrative structures. He's not overly concerned about making it fit into audience expectations. He wants to tell certain stories, and that's what he's gonna do. And that was made very clear to me with Bad Buddy 12, because that defied every narrative expectation—every audience expectation—to speak a truth that Aof had on his spirit.

Ben

The other thing for me—this is the part where I’m gonna get a little bit grumpy again. It is expensive to make television. Like, the biggest thing that stands out to me with all of Our Skyy is how stripped-down all of it looked.

Like they filmed in like one or two locations at most it felt like half the time, and they had really short filming schedules, and everybody had to be good very quickly. There's not a lot of runup time. It feels like people just brought whatever they still had left from the last performance and they just ran with it. Everybody had to be really good, and it's expensive to film on that mountain. And so Aof needed to justify that particular crossover, by using the most potent talent he had.

Like, there's a huge Bad Buddy fandom. There's a pretty solid contingent of people who like A Tale of Thousand Stars. And for A Tale of Thousand Stars to get something good, he needed to merge the Bad Buddy budget with the Thousand Stars budget.

But also, they didn't want to touch their ending, which is why he sets Bad Buddy before its ending, but Tian and Phupha only at the beginning of their romance when we leave them. They have more work to do, so they can have an epilogue story that really hammers into some really interesting stuff, which we just spent the last hour or so talking about. 

But it's done really efficiently! Like for the most part we all seem to enjoy Our Skyy, and they manage to do that with their limited budget. Like Pat and Pran are in a different room because it's probably cheaper to use this room. There's less people in Pha Pun Dao this time. Au is running around in the background as an extra! Wasn't he the damn director of the Kwan and Riam play? [shushes] Don't pay attention to that. A bunch of guys are running around with masks on—that's probably just crew members!

Nini

I did sort of love that chewing gum and string energy these productions can bring that is really sort of the heart of the Our Skyy franchise. I feel like I like that because to me that means it's for the art. If you're going to do this on chewing gum and string it's because you really fucking care. Like if you're going to do a story like this on string and chewing gum, it's because you really want to tell this fucking story. And in the end that's where I land on the vast majority of Our Skyy 2.

Ben

So what's our final verdict on Our Skyy then? Worth it? Not worth it?

Nini

Before we get to our final verdict on our Our Skyy, we didn't give our final verdict on the crossover. 

Ben

Oh, it's a 10. [slams desk and laughs]

Nini

It's a 10! It's a 10! It's a 10! Let's just—let's just—let's let it go. Right? It's a 10 for drama and a 10 for crack because what is more cracky than a crossover? And so it averages out to 10. Have I got quibbles with it? Yes. Do they, in the grand scheme of things, matter to my enjoyment of it? Absolutely not. It's a 10—point blank period.

Ben

It didn't waste my time. They set out a really interesting premise: what if Tian published his diary? What if “lonely queer looking for meaning and community” Pran found it? What if he met them? What do they do if they meet each other? Like, they follow through on that in a way that gave us so much to talk about for two weeks. 

And it was fun seeing the whole fandom come alive and see people revisit characters! It was fun seeing people change their opinions on Phupha, and even Earth and Mix as the result of watching this. That was so much fun. 

Nini

It was delightful. It was enjoyable. It was meaningful. It was narratively enjoyable at least for me, it was a 10. I loved it and one of the things that I love most about it is that Pat gets to lick Pran's finger this time.

Ben

Oh my god.

Nini

I mean, it's just the slutiness of it all! Pat gets to lick Pran's finger. Phupha gets to touch his titties in a sexy kind of way. They get to make out with that damn mosquito net, and I enjoyed every single second of it. I laughed, I cried, I…felt warmth deep inside. 

1:59:13 - Overall Score for Our Skyy 2

Nini

All that said, in terms of the overall—let’s give an overall score for Our Skyy 2. Ben, what do you think?

Ben

With the caveat that you should only really engage with the Our Skyy content if you liked the original show, it's a 9. 

Like, I didn't like Vice Versa and I didn't like Star in My Mind when I watched them the first time, and so everything I didn't like about those shows was present in their Our Skyy offerings. I don't think it's very fair of me to be especially mean about their Our Skyy offerings when they are in line with what the audience has been taught to expect. If the audience likes that more power to them. But for the six shows that I genuinely liked, I had a good time with these. 

Like, the weakest shows in this that I had a hard time with on the front end were A Boss and a Babe and Never Let Me Go. And I really liked what Jojo did with Never Let Me Go, and I thought that A Boss and a Babe actually had a really interesting story this time. But I loved The Eclipse and I thought Golf was great with this outing. I thought the cast was great in The Eclipse outing, and I felt like that about Bad Buddy and A Tale of Thousand Stars, and I felt like that about My School President. 

I had a great time! It gets a 9 overall. Like, there are quibbles—it's not always the best thing, and it forces you to maybe look back at a show and alter the way you felt about it. And if you'd rather lock the show in a mental prism of where you last left it, maybe don't watch these offerings? But if you grow and change, and you kind of want to imagine what your characters are like if they also grow and change, then maybe it's worth checking out for you. 

It's a 9. Highly recommended.

Nini

For you, the score is always about a recommendation. For me, it's always about do I like this? How much do I like this? And for me, for the vast majority of Our Skyy, I fuckin’ loved it. So I also give it a 9. I don't have any caveats about recommending it to anybody or anything like that. I just had, for the most part, a whale of a fucking time. And so, it's a 9! I enjoyed myself! 

So kind of in our own form of intertextuality harkening back to our Season 2: Electric Boogaloo episode of the Spring Series, and talking about sequels. So, Ben, after Our Skyy 2, how are you feeling about sequels?

Ben

Enthusiastic? [laughs] I mean, come on, man, like, this was fucking good. We need to think about how these characters stay together. That can be so rewarding to think about and it's good for the audience to think about it. 

I hope we see Pat and Pran in 10 years after their little sprout has blossomed, and maybe they're considering something else. I'm totally down to return to characters every couple of years for check-ins. That totally works for me, and I think that there is value in transitioning the types of stories we tell with characters over time, because they're going to face a variety of situations over time, so it can be so, so rewarding for us as viewers to go on those new journeys with them.

Nini

How do I…feel about sequels? Again, it's the same way I always feel. I feel like when there's story still to tell, I'm ready to see it. I'm ready to hear it. And if I feel like there isn't anything left to say, then I'm not interested. That's largely where I landed with the Our Skyy episodes for the most part where I felt like there was story left to tell. I thoroughly enjoyed getting that story and then those, like Star in My Mind, where I felt like there was no story, I wasn’t really interested. 

So, do I feel pumped about sequels and the whole idea of following these boys into the “staying together” part of things? Yes, that's something that I'm always going to enjoy, and if that means conflict, I am fine with that. I enjoy watching them navigate that, whether the conflict is minor or  major, I am having a blast with that in my mind. 

And…I can't wait for Our Skyy 3. 

That is going to wrap us up on the Our Skyy 2 episode. Y'all are going to hear the edited version of this, but I just want you all to know that we've been talking for three hours, and we've been having a great time. See y’all in the next one. Say bye to the people, Ben.

Ben

Welcome back, my boyfriend!

Nini

[laughs] Bye.