#i'm not even kidding when i say it

[aloneintheafterglow]

in love with these two

[frownyalfred]

thinking about a Damian who was raised his entire life hearing how much he looks like his Father, how he's the blood son, how he's better than any other child Bruce Wayne has taken in, starting to buy into it like a kid does, only to hit puberty and turn out looking like 80% Talia.

[pa-pa-plasma]

I know the concept of more supernatural/paranormal elements is cool but it will never stop being funny to me that in every series ever, when a ghost shows up the main characters have to do rituals & research the history of the haunted item or house or even whole town & use specific items like salt & incense & talisman to banish the ghost all dramatically & supernaturally, but in Danny Phantom this kid just shows up with nothing but his fists, a thermos, & pent up aggression. put em the fuck UP, you ectoplasmic son of a—

[mirixmoya]

I’ve been a hayffie fan for YEARS and the backlash I’m seeing against them now after SOTR overlooks the crucial point Haymitch is an unreliable narrator. His trauma distorts his perception, making him believe he’s incapable of love, but that doesn’t make it true. THG series has consistently shown us that first-person narrators don’t always see themselves clearly. Also, if anything, Suzanne Collins really loves to write a boy who’s wayyy more in love with the girl than she is with him.

Haymitch’s relationship with Lenore Dove was passionate and intense, but it was also fleeting and fragile. It was such a beautiful display of young, exciting, love and infatuation. But I truly think had he not been reaped, her free spirit, their diverging convictions, his commitment to his family likely would have led them down separate paths. His lasting attachment feels more rooted in guilt than the once-in-a-lifetime love.

Effie, however, is a love that endures. She chooses him, over and over, for TWENTY FIVE years, despite what it costs her. She but by a deep, unwavering commitment. The real tragedy isn’t that Haymitch lost his one great love with Lenore Dove—it’s that he doesn’t yet recognize the love he has with Effie.

Love doesn’t diminish when you love again. I truly think Suzanne Collins played off of the star crossed lovers trope presented by Haymitch with Katniss and Peeta and make him and Lenore Dove the true ones of the series. If Lenore was Haymitch’s star-crossed lover destined to be lost, then Effie is proof that love can exist beyond tragedy—whether he realizes it or not.

oookay yes anon i do like a lot of what u said, so i'm just gonna give my thoughts below!! (also, worth mentioning, my pre-sotr hayffie thoughts were a product of like 10+ years of thinking, planning, and refining. so with only a week of thinking space, my post-sotr are very much still in the process of being parsed out and refined.)

i think the idea of haymitch being an unreliable narrator is an interesting one, especially considering how closely paralleled with katniss he is. i do, however, think thg fandom has a tendency to misuse the concept of the unreliable narrator, so i'm gonna be careful with that one. i do think that 16-year-old haymitch should not always be taken at his word, especially when it comes to love. no 16-year-old should be. like you said, his love with lenore dove is passionate, and exciting, and full of youthful-enthusiasm. and it is fleeting in the sense that, narratively, we know it is doomed to end. however, i (personally) take post-war haymitch at his word when he says that lenore dove was his 'mate-for-life'. i think he's old and/or lived enough to know what he means, and i believe him when he says it.

it is interesting that you think that haymitch and lenore dove's diverging convictions would have eventually wedged them apart. i don't know if i agree (yet), but it's something i will definitely continue to think about. but i have been thinking about how haymitch's image of him and lenore dove growing old together is entirely of his own imaginings. lenore dove--who we know to be opinionated, and passionate, and full of life--isn't there to speak for herself. i do wonder what lenore dove would imagine for her own life growing old, and whether it would align with what haymitch has imagined for them. i, also, do agree that guilt has big hand to play in haymitch's epilogue memories of lenore dove. he fed her the gumdrop. he feels like he killed her, and i imagine that's not an easy thing to let go of.

what has allowed me to really reconcile haydove and hayffie's co-existence is that neither seems to be taking up the other's space in haymitch's life. hayffie isn't young love, it isn't whirlwind passion, maybe it isn't even that exciting. their interactions are mundane. their romance is a slow grow. it's stone-by-stone, year-by-year, familiarity, trust, sustained companionship. again, not as exciting as young love, but it might be stronger. it maybe has the ability to last longer. effie could never be what lenore dove was for haymitch, nor (do i think) would she want to be. lenore could never be what effie is for haymitch, nor would she would want to be. these relationships don't overlap. they're parallel in a very literally sense where they don't disrupt or overlap onto one another. and i do think this is how i will be framing haydove + hayffie in my fics moving forward. haymitch's lingering pain over lenore dove should be an affirmation of his ability to love, rather than an opposition.

i also like that you brought katniss and peeta into the conversation because i've been thinking a lot about the linear progression of the love stories we see across the series. if everlark is a pure example of star-crossed lovers, and snowbaird is doomed from the beginning, i think that puts haydove somewhere in-between. i think haydove did love eachother a lot, like all-fire, and i do think they were soulmates to a degree. i don't know if they would have been able to live happily ever after. i don't think it's for me to say. but i do think the central tragedy there is that they never got the chance to figure it out for themselves.

hayffie, on the other hand, does get that chance. they spend 25 years together, building their relationship, brick-by-brick. and (seeing as they eventually reach a point where they've known eachother longer than they haven't known eachother) i don't think it's crazy to assume they spent many more years together after the war.

but let me know what y'all think :)

[littlefankingdom]

The Batman fandom infantilizing a near 30 years old white man taking in a child, saying he was a brother more than a father as if he wasn't a full grown adult taking in a child he could have birthed, but parentifying a brown young adult taking in his brother pre-teen for less than a year, saying he was a father more than a brother (only a year is barely enough but ok), or saying he was more a father to his other brothers than Bruce, when he met them when he was 18 and 21 is making me uncomfortable, ngl.

Like, Bruce is a "kid" when he became Dick's guardian when he canonically was over 25 (he started being Batman at 25), and a brother to him when he raised him for 10 years (and Dick probably has not many memories from before Bruce now), but Dick is a "father" to Damian he only had as his charge for less than a year, half of which they were fighting each others??? Make it make sense???

[glitter-stained]

I'm not saying making tentatodd sexy (as in like, a crossover between a mermaid and glossy black octopus-y tentacle porn monster) would have fixed Nightwing Brothers in Blood... but it would have made it much better

[lyxchen]

Maddie Simon Reunion Hug WHEN???

(If you like my art then please reblog it, also another version plus close ups are under the cut)

[lloydfrontera]

my biggest gripe with the manhwa rn is that they made javier more of an asshole than he is in the novel and then took away most of the scenes where we see him being kind and soft with others.

javier can be an ass, he is a brat and he's especially annoying when he's with lloyd, but above anything else he is kind and loyal and selfless and good. i cannot emphasize enough how good javier is. he's the kind of person who cannot see someone in trouble or danger and do nothing about it. he's the kind of person who would sacrifice his life for total strangers and no hope of any reward. he's the kind of person who can't even enjoy a lavish party without feeling guilty because he'd much rather help people in need with that money.

he's so fucking good, lloyd is a little annoyed by it because he keeps getting dragged into life-threatening situations because javier just won't stop helping people they don't even know. mind you, lloyd is also endeared by this and would not want him to change but god can it be frustrating in his endeavor to keep them both alive.

there's this particular scene that i just. i'm so sad it was cut. where javier is helping around the refugee camp, going without sleeping and eating so he can focus on helping as many people as possible and then he spots a little kid that got lost on his way back. so he decides to help him.

and he's so gentle with this kid.

Javier walked over to the kid and called him. The flustered boy looked up. Javier strove to put on a warm smile on his face. "Are you lost?" “...” The boy nodded, his eyes all wet. Javier carefully stroked the boy's head. "I think I can help you with that. Why don't you let me help find your tent?" suggested Javier. “...” The boy nodded again. "But why didn't you eat the food? It's going to get cold. Are you not hungry?" "I am… hungry," the boy finally said. But what he said next caught Javier by surprise. "But I won't eat it," said the boy. "Why not?" "My mother is hungrier." "Is that so?" "Yes." “...” Javier wondered why this kid came out to take the food when he had a mother. There must be a reason, he thought to himself. He held out his hand. "I will hold the tray for you." "..." "I won't spill it. I promise." "Okay..." Javier took the tray and wrapped the boy’s hand with his own.

like. god. javier is not a naturally warm person. he's very reserved and stoic and sometimes outright cold, but he still tries so hard with this kid. because he knows what it's like to be him. he knows what it's like to be a child and be scared and hungry and without a home. and he remembers how much it meant for a kind adult to reach out a hand to him and help. and he wants to be that to others too.

everything he does, he does because he genuinely believes it's the right thing to do and therefore his obligation. and even when it doesn't come naturally to him, like being warm and gentle to a child, he still tries his best to do so.

and like that wasn't enough, when they finally find the kid's mom, javier finds out she's blind. recently blinded actually. that she used all her strength to get her child to safety and now she has to depend on him to take care of them because she can't do it anymore. her blouse is smudged with porridge.

so javier kneels down and explains who he is, why he's there and that he wants to help. he lifts up a spoonful of food and slowly and carefully starts to feed her himself. she's a complete stranger and javier doesn't hesitate one second to do this for her.

this is who javier is!! this is who he is at his core!! he's kind and he's selfless and he's above all else good!!

if your audience can't imagine javier comforting a child, then you failed your audience. you missed the point of his character.

[swan2swan]

The biggest problem with Dominion is the dichotomy of Maisie's plotline with regards to motherhood, and the way both plots revolve around it from wholly opposite perspectives while never actually clashing.

Her plot starts off simply enough: she's angsting about not being a real person, Claire's trying to protect her, and Maisie spits at her with the "You're not my mother!" line right before she's kidnapped.

This is a classic Finding Nemo setup, which Claire takes to with gusto: she calls on favors, slips into seedy markets, fights a crime boss, eludes raptors, jumps out of a plane, and crawls through a forest to get the girl she calls her daughter back. Most stories would show this as a trial: ye olde "GASP! My parents love me!" story.

But the fact that Claire has no obligation to bring Maisie back is never challenged. Soyona doesn't bother with asking or playing the role of the tempting serpent instilling doubt; the closest the movie comes to that is Franklin giving her the "I told you this would happen" speech. It's all taken for granted, which is...okay, because we have already established who Claire is, but that's not the problem.

The problem comes with the other half of the story: Maisie mopes to Wu about how she's just a close, and Wu immediately points out how no, she was conceived and carried in a human womb just like everyone else! And he calls Charlotte "your mother".

And Maisie goes "Is that my mother?"

And when she meets Ellie, Dr. Sattler is somehow fully aware of who Maisie's REAL MOTHER, the one who created her and who she looks like, is, and gushes about how great of a eugen--person she was. Every single time Maisie talks about "her mother" with the people around her, the word is referring to Charlotte Lockwood, the woman who birthed her.

Meanwhile, that Claire woman is crawling into a slimy pond to get away from a twenty-foot-tall Kreugersaurus because she wants to get Maisie away from kidnappers.

Of course, Maisie runs back to her and yells "Those are my parents!", but there's still something missing there. Claire's side of the story is all about her powering through, risking her life time and time again to track down her daughter...but there's never really a moment between them later. Maisie even posits the "So I was just an experiment to her..." plotline that has been seen before, but even that's immediately refuted.

The movie's not wrong for avoiding the cliches and the oft-used tropes of foster motherhood, but it doesn't really break any new ground, either. Obviously, people can have more than one mom, but there's something of an imbalanced focus on Charlotte as Maisie's mother in the Maisie and Jurassic Park plotline, while Claire in the Jurassic World plotline is doing all the expected Mom Stuff.

I can't wholly express what's bothering me about it, maybe I'm overthinking it, but it...doesn't quite sit right with me.

[silverwhittlingknife]

hi Silver! o/ because that fanart made me wonder - would you happen to know when/where Dick's stuffed elephant plush Zitka turns up in the comics?

GREETINGS CAM <3333 THAT ART WAS SO CUTE

Yeah, I think your instincts are right - it's a truly adorable bit of transformative fandom, but I'm 95% percent sure it's not comics canon. Barbara has canon plushies, but I don't think anyone else does.

I got kinda invested in the investigation (it's hard to prove a negative!) and I ended up typing out an entire History of Elinore/Zitka, so, uh, if you're curious, meet me below the cut for:

Where does Elinore / Zitka - the animal - appear in comics?

Did Dick ever have a stuffed elephant toy in comics?

Where does Elinore / Zitka appear in comics?

We're gonna go in chronological order!

Dick's circus elephant friend was first created for practical reasons: in Batman 436, Marv Wolfman does a big expanded flashback to Dick's circus backstory as a way to subtly show us Tim before officially introducing him (so that we can have a technically-solvable mystery-of-Tim's-identity in LPoD). In this comic, there's an elephant named Elinore who loves Dick:

Aww. Such a cute elephant!

Batman 436 comes out in August 1989. New Titans 60 comes out a few months later, in November, and guess what? When Dick visits the circus, he is suddenly surprised by an unexpected blast from the past! It turns out that even though it's been years, Elinore still remembers him!

Here's the part where Elinore remembers Dick:

SUCH a cute elephant. I love her.

(Guess who else still remembers Dick even though it was so long ago. Guess which other character is about to be an unexpected blast from the past. Guess which character Elinore is directly paralleling guess guess guess sorry everything is about Dick and Tim in my mind but I can focus I swear)

Four years later, in 1993, Batman: The Animated Series retells Dick's origin story. They like and keep Wolfman's elephant, but they change her name to Zitka:

Wolfman doesn't return to the elephant beyond those two appearances, and a few years down the line, New Titans gets cancelled and Wolfman's not writing Dick anymore anyway. So the animal gets abandoned for a while, until Devin Grayson, a fan of both Wolfman and B:tAS, revives the Wolfman-era Titans team in JLA/Titans and then the ongoing series Titans 1999.

Grayson then brings back the elephant in a flashback to Dick's past in Titans 16 (Jun 2000), where she imports the B:tAS name. Sometimes I'm skeptical of TV-to-comics imports, but honestly, I endorse this one. You lose the alliteration, which is a shame, but IMO Zitka is a better elephant name than Elinore.

Here's Dick with the newly-christened Zitka in Titans 16:

Grayson also briefly references the elephant in Gotham Knights 20 and - in a final angsty callback - in Nightwing 88 (Feb 2004), where Zitka tries futilely to comfort Dick in the midst of his trauma conga line:

... And... honestly, I think that's it for comic appearances? The two Wolfman comics plus the three Grayson comics.

Both Wolfman and Grayson are writing multiple titles - Batman, New Titans, Titans, Gotham Knights, and Nightwing between the two of them, spanning a big chunk of Dick's post-Crisis canon - and both writers use the elephant for heartwarming moments of nostalgia, which means if you're doing a post-Crisis readthrough for Dick, Elinore/Zitka feels memorable. But I don't think she actually shows up that much.

For post-2011, I am not as well-informed - throwing this out to the dash? anyone know? - but I feel like Zitka the heartwarming symbol of Dick's heartwarming circus past is, uh, thematically very at odds with the Court of Owls evil!circus vibes, so my instinct is that this story element was almost certainly dropped in the reboot.

Did Dick ever have a stuffed elephant toy in comics?

In WFA, yes; in main comics continuity, no. Technically, I have not read every comic ever published, so I could be wrong!! But I don't think so.

Below, find my rambling reasoning on the tonal vibes of pre-Crisis, post-Crisis, and post-2011, and why this particular story element doesn't seem right to me for the first two.

Pre-Crisis (...okay, mostly the Silver Age): stuffed animal, yes or no?

tl;dr no, requires too much background knowledge on the part of the reader, plus the elephant wasn't a thing until later

Elinore doesn't get created until post-Crisis, but also just generally, pre-Crisis callbacks are more along the lines of this reference in Batman 129 (published in 1960), where, wow, Batman and Robin are hunting jewel thieves - and it turns out Robin recognized this strongman! BUT HOW?!

The comic goes on to recap Dick's entire origin story in flashback, on the assumption that you may not know it.

(BTW, if you'd like to know more about Haly's Circus throughout the years, nightwingology has a great post here summarizing a lot of fun plotlines and characters!)

Basically: Silver Age comics are very self-consciously episodic and kid-friendly; they're not generally gonna do overly-elaborate callbacks because they don't know what comics their kid readers may have randomly picked up or remember.

By the time of post-Crisis, comic books were being written for an adult audience buying from the direct market, i.e. readers who are collecting whole runs & don't need or want Dick's origin story to be recapped to us in full every time it's referenced. That's why in post-Crisis, we get stuff like "hey, neat, this particular soda brand is getting mentioned in several different books!!" or "in order to understand this story arc, buy SIXTEEN DIFFERENT COMICS in FIVE DIFFERENT RUNS and read them ALL ACCORDING TO A NUMBERED ORDER and also you better be following the individual plotlines and recognize these five minor characters who we don't bother to introduce!! Good luck!!" But the elaborate post-Crisis plotlines - and subtler worldbuilding like a stuffed animal callback to Dick's backstory - don't make a lot of story sense UNLESS you're imagining your readers as completionist adult fans.

So IMO a stuffed animal wouldn't be a pre-Crisis thing unless it was The Episodic Story Of the Week, and I don't think a stuffed animal is action-adventure-y enough for the fast-paced storytelling of the Silver Age. (Unless it, like, came to life and tried to eat you or something.)

Post-Crisis: stuffed animals, yes or no?

tl;dr: no, Dick's a manly tough guy, he's not gonna have a stuffed animal, that'd be lame, like something Tim might do

Part of the edgy grimdark adult vibes in 80s/90s comics is that some characters who used to be kinda silly & goofy & lighthearted - like Batman and Robin - get reimagined as Serious and Angsty and Edgy in a Tough Cool Manly Brooding Way. This massively affects characterization for Bruce, Dick, and Bruce and Dick's relationship.

(I obviously love this change & love the tense Bruce-and-Dick interactions, but plenty of fans of the earlier fluffy comics really disliked the edgy retcons of Miller / Wolfman / Starlin / et al.)

The upshot is that post-Crisis is a period when you could have a recurring reference like a stuffed elephant, but you wouldn't have a stuffed elephant, not for Dick. I think a toy like that would be too cutesy / childish / effeminate to give a male character in post-Crisis, unless you were poking fun at him.

Now, you could probably let Tim have a stuffed animal, because Tim is sometimes cool but also sometimes a tryhard loser who is faking being cool and not entirely pulling it off (see e.g. the Robin comic where he practices tough-guy faces in the mirror, or the Teen Titans comic where Conner discovers his cringy Enya CD, or when he's fanboying over Connor and it's awkward, etc etc.). A stuffed animal would be deeply embarrassing, and you'd have to be careful to compensate by having Tim do something cool afterward - but Tim's character concept allows for "he's kind of a loser sometimes."

But Dick isn't!! In post-Crisis, Dick's a tough / impressive / "cool guy" character, the kind of guy anyone would want to be, even in the flashbacks where he's Robin, and even in the stories where he's more lighthearted than angsty. It'd be kinda lame for Dick to have a stuffed elephant, so he wouldn't. I feel like Dick would be more likely to poke fun at it if someone had one, like when he's making fun of Wally for liking the Hardy Boys. Dick could have a Batman action figure, at most, and if he had one he would have it ironically.

Basically: in post-Crisis, a male character hugging a stuffed elephant feels more likely to be a punchline to me, not something poignant. (Even with Tim, Tim could have an embarrassing stuffed animal, but he couldn't hug it when sad - that's too far. Maybe Booster Gold might do this. Probably he wouldn't, but spiritually, he would. Sorry Booster ilu! <3)

Instead, Dick instinctively deals with his inner turmoil like the TORTURED ACTION HERO he is: by punching things and brooding and yelling and joining the mob and sleeping on rooftops and going on obsessive secret missions and acquiring Angsty Stubble!! Just like Batman!

(Technically I don't know if Bruce ever joined the mob but you know he would.)

Anyway as you know this is my favorite continuity and I am poking fun affectionately, but uh, yeah sdfsfdsfs. No stuffed animals.

Post-2011 / Infinite Frontier / Wayne Family Adventures: stuffed animals, yes or no?

tl;dr it's in WFA! Probably not anywhere else, but it could be.

Post-2011 stuff tends to be cutesier overall, most of all in the current Infinite Frontier era. So I don't feel like this would be tonally out-of-line with IF comics. Taylor tends to go for more meme-y references rather than fanfic references, though.

So the obvious best fit is WFA, which is aiming for a rough approximation of Silver Age family-friendly vibes - wholesome, episodic plots, Teaching Good Moral Lessons For The Youth, etc. - plus lots of Easter eggs for fanfic readers and some comic references.

And look, here we are:

Aww.

Whew - that's everything I could find!

Anyway as you can probably tell, I LOVE the elephant, so this was a very entertaining rabbit hole to go down, thank you <3

[charlesemersonwinchesteriii]

Kept thinking about the decline in popularity of Christmas caroling from the 1800s to now and came to the following conclusions:

Would not go caroling in any time period:

Hickey

Gibson

Golding

Wall

Des Voeux

Fairholme

Crispe

Collins (would like to, but is too shy)

Would go caroling in the 1800s but not in a modern AU:

Goodsir

Hartnell Bros

Diggle

Morfin

Weekes

Hoar

Tozer

Dundy

Crozier (coerced into it by Fitzjames)

Jopson (moral support for Crozier)

Would go caroling no matter the time period:

The Franklins

Gore

Magnus

Lane

Fitzjames

MacDonald

Irving

Hodgson

Little (coerced into it by the former two)

(List not meant to be exhaustive. I left out anyone I was undecided on. Additions and edits welcome!)

[necrotic-nephilim]

If you want to be bothered. Maybe this for dick and Bruce???

i ALWAYS want to be bothered these are always the highlight of my day tbh you're a delight for letting me just yap <3

Dick. For the canon isn't real square I am Specifically talking about the Tom Taylor Nightwing run. Usually I ignore bad runs but given this one is ongoing (though about to end THANK GOD and get replaced by Dan Watters who i have high hopes for since i adored his Sword of Azrael (2022) run but i digress) so I counted it. Especially since it's so debated if that run is bad or not, for some reason. I'm a 90s Nightwing truther. I love Dick so dearly and tbh recently I've been more enamored with him the more I read his Discowing era, I didn't used to be as big of a Dick stan as I am these days.

Bruce. Honestly where do you even start with Bruce. I want to fist fight him and also patch him up. He got me into comics and superheroes as a whole but I roll my eyes whenever he shows up in a story. He's a bastard and usually not a good father but also complex and should be dissected under a magnifying glass. I love him dearly. He's also just the worst. I think that's why I love him. I'm always a fan of unabashedly Complicated Asshole Bruce who's generally not always the best person, particularly not to the Batfamily and that being the driving force of his relationships with them, especially in shipping.

And for bonus points, Tim. Because know above all else, I'm a Tim Drake kinnie /deg. He's been my number one for a decade and I've yet to uproot him from my brain. He's literally the Worst half the time and I love him for it. And the canon isn't real refers to Tim Drake: Robin because... that sure was a comic. And that's about all I can say about it. Pre-Flashpoint Tim I miss you so dearly. I think it's fun that I want to put him in a blender and drink the juice but also want Nothing Ever to happen to him.

[lucraven]

I literally can't stop drawing this au it's so fun More Dungeon Meshi x Dr.Stone!

[thousandyearphantombunker]

i hate the fact the term karen went from describing a bitchy entitled customer to basically the modern day equivalent of calling a woman a harpy (misogynistic as fuck) and that people use the term on people out in public who are at the end of their rope emotionally from stress or a shitty day. I get it just because your having a rough time doesn't mean you get to be a dick but sometimes I think people are seriously lacking in empathy and I get it a lot shit the customer might be dealing with isn't your responsibility but like if a customer is struggling with something simple maybe don't be a dick? Just a thought.

[beneathsilverstars]

idk it sounds reasonable to me for a teenager to run away bc they didn't want to eat their veggies!

one hopes that by the later stages of childhood a parent will have figured out which veggies and preparation styles work for the kid, and the kid will have resigned themself to what they do and don't have to eat according to their parents, and it's all settled into an equilibrium instead of a daily fight. and hopefully as a teen your palette is expanding and you're even willing to eat more veggies then you did as a child.

however, if the kid is extra picky and stubborn, and the parent is extra determined to make sure they eat a good variety (or just eat whatever the parent prepared no matter what it is), it could absolutely continue to be a regularly-repeated fight. and if something is a continued point of contention throughout childhood then it absolutely makes sense for a teen to go FUCK this, i am nearly an ADULT i am done being told to eat my veggies i am gonna prove my independence and make them realize i don't have to just sit there and let them boss me around!!

like, the childishness of the fight is exactly why a teen would run away about it.