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babybells123 · 4 months

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Regarding the original outline + some thoughts on Jon & Sansa…

This is a long one. Buckle up.

If there is one thing I have picked up on in the ASOIAF fandom, it’s the knee-jerk negative reaction towards any theory/parallel/connection between Jon and Sansa. This was exacerbated by the show, of course but even now - five years later, there is an insane amount of vitriol that my brain is unable to comprehend. And here’s the rub; the infamous 1993 outline is the irony of it all.

In a fandom that is a-okay with *certain* incest ships (r.e D@enerys x Jon, D@emon x Rh@enyra, Jon x Aria), as well as blatantly pedophilic ships (Sansa x S@ndor, Sansa x Littlefinger, Sansa x Tyrio*), how is Jon x Sansa the worst of them all? I’m going to pin it down to audience engagement with the show, particularly around the later seasons when Jon + Sansa reunite and people began to ‘ship’ them. So many believe that is how the ship took off, and thus it is mere crack - but there are posts tracking back to 2012/2013 theorising the possibility of Jon x Sansa. Was it spurred by the show? Certainly! But it does not take away from the fact that people were making valid arguments and essays before the general fandom was even comprehending a Jon and Sansa reunion on screen. And people were open to discussing/debating it with general civility (a far cry from today).

I’m 90% certain people weren’t criticising those who began to believe in Jon x Aria when the outline was leaked…(though there were most definitely shippers before). But we never see the same level of vitriol towards Jon x Aria shippers, which is strange.

In any case, let’s talk about said outline, some of the key points - and how I believe GRRM made the switch from Jon x Aria to Jon x Sansa. I’ll be drawing from GRRM’s past works, interviews, art, and his personal life - as well as other potential literary influences. I'll be linking metas along the way, but without further ado - let's go.

In October 1993, GRRM wrote a pitch outline for a publishing company. It was three pages long and conveyed alongside the first thirteen chapters of AGOT (170 pages). The three paged letter was leaked on twitter in February 2014, though there were multiple aspects parts blacked out. Keep in mind though, this may not be the *only* outline that exists. There are multiple outlines that have never been publicly released (and will likely remain that way).

But let’s just focus on the 1993 outline, since we’re privy to the details. The thirteen chapters attached to the outline did *not* yet have a Sansa POV, and that’s because in this outline, she wasn’t listed as a key character.

The key characters were; Bran, Jon, Tyrion, D@enerys, and Aria.

The first thirteen chapters were; Prologue; Bran I, Catelyn I, D@enerys I, Eddard I, Jon I, Catelyn II, Aria I, Bran II, Tyrion I, Jon II, D@enerys II, Eddard II, Tyrion II.

I’ve seen people claim that Sansa isn’t an important character since she wasn’t listed as a key character, but they conveniently leave out the fact that a) her chapters were not yet written, b)she was given an entirely different more passive storyline in this outline, c) she dies, d) this was far far before GRRM fleshed out his characters entirely - Sansa took on a life of her own and she became her own solid complex character with an arc in 4 out of 5 of the books; 25 chapters.

In fact, since the books have been published GRRM has regarded Sansa and the Starks as a main character as well;

Collider: In creating this world, did you start out with one family and then branch off into the rest of the world?

GRRM: Well, the Starks are certainly the centre of the story, when it begins. It all begins at Winterfell, with occasional cuts to Daenerys across the ocean, because there was no way I could get her into Winterfell. But, we bring all the characters together at Winterfell, and they’re all there for a while before they start to go their separate ways ... .But, the Starks are the centre of the book and, to a lesser extent, the Lannisters. They are still the major players.

Collider: When you went into this, did you intentionally take the children, put them in an adult setting and force them to be in very adult and complex situations?

GRRM: Yeah, the children were always at the heart of this. The Stark children, in particular, were always very central. Bran is the first viewpoint character that we meet, and then we meet Jon and Sansa and Arya and the rest of them. It was always my intention to do that.”

Collider report.

May 2016 - Balticon.

(…) George said he was “pissed” that the outline was posted in the office building and that someone took photos and shared them. He said it was a letter for him and the publisher only. He was very firm when telling this and it showed on his face.

He then said that he is not good with writing outlines, making book deadlines, and that often in outlines he was “making shit up”, and “characters changed along the way”.

He went straight from talking about the references in the actual books, to the “differences” in the outline from then to now. He did say that he still knows who sits the iron throne and the end game of the main 5, but also included Sansa, but did not give any details (for obvious reasons).

[question if he is still going with the 1991 ending]

“Yes, I mean, I did partly joke when I said I don’t know where I was going. I know the broad strokes, and I’ve known the broad strokes since 1991. I know who’s going to be on the Iron Throne. I know who’s gonna win some of the battles, I know the major characters, who’s gonna die and how they’re gonna die, and who’s gonna get married and all that. The major characters.

….

“So a lot of the minor characters I’m still discovering along the way. But the mains-”

[question if he knows Arya’s and Jon’s fates]

“Tyrion, Arya, Jon, Sansa, you know, all of the Stark kids, and the major Lannisters, yeah.”

Balticon report:

“Ah, how innocent I was… little did that guy in the picture imagine that he would be spending most of the next two decades in the Seven Kingdoms of Westeros with Tyrion, Daenerys, Arya, Sansa, Jon Snow, Bran, and all the rest.”

GRRM's live journal:

So Sansa has clearly developed into an important character from GRRM’s words, and the key-characters argument can cease, because It’s very tiring to dispel that when the characters and story took on a life of its own. (I mean, Jaime was meant to remain a villain, but he was clearly given somewhat of a redemption arc in the main series).

I paraphrased what was written here for this whole section, so go check out the longer post!

The Aria in the original outline:

*NOTE: I am blacking out her actual names in case the wrong people find this post. None of this anti her, please keep that in mind.*

Five central characters will make it through all three volumes, [...] The five key players are Tyrion Lannister, D@enerys Targaryen, and three of the children of Winterfell, Aria, Bran, and the bastard Jon Snow.

Joffrey will not be sympathetic and Ned [what appears to say] will be accused of treason, but before he is taken he will help his wife and his daughter Aria escape back to Winterfell.

Tyrion Lannister, meanwhile, will befriend both Sansa and her sister Aria, while growing more and more disenchanted with his own family.

When Winterfell burns, Catelyn Stark will be forced to flee north with her son Bran and her daughter Aria. Wounded by Lannister riders, they will seek refuge at the Wall, but the men of the Night's Watch give up their families when they take the black, and Jon and Benjen will not be able to help, to Jon's anguish. It will lead to a bitter estrangement between Jon and Bran.

Aria will be more forgiving ... until she realises, with terror, that she has fallen in love with Jon, who is not only her half-brother but a man of the Night's Watch, sworn to celibacy. Their passion will continue to torment Jon and Aria throughout the trilogy, until the secret of Jon's true parentage is finally revealed in the last book.

Abandoned by the Night's Watch, Catelyn and her children will find their only hope of safety lies even further north, beyond the Wall, where they fall into the hands of Mance Rayder, the King-beyond-the-Wall, and get a dreadful glimpse of the inhuman others as they attack the wilding encampment. Bran's magic, Aria's sword Needle, and the savagery of their direwolves will help them survive, but their mother Catelyn will die at the hands of the others.

Exiled, Tyrion will change sides, making common cause with the surviving Starks to bring his brother down, and falling helplessly in love with Aria Stark while he's at it. His passion is, alas, unreciprocated, but no less intense for that, and it will lead to a deadly rivalry between Tyrion and Jon Snow

Observations:

Exactly how old is Aria? Is she a warrior princess who cries at songs like her aunt? Does she enjoy/yearn for romance? Is she a stunningly beautiful maiden rivalling that of Cersei? How close were she and Jon? Did they have a good sibling relationship? Or were they distant? Does she look physically different to Jon? Does she have red hair?

The Sansa of the Original Outline:

‘Each of the contending families will learn it has a member of dubious loyalty in its midst. Sansa Stark, wed to Joffrey Baratheon, will bear him a son, the heir to the throne, and when the crunch comes she will choose her husband and child over her parents and siblings, a choice she will later bitterly rue.’

Tyrion Lannister, meanwhile, will befriend both Sansa and her sister Aria, while growing more and more disenchanted with his own family.

Jaime Lannister will follow Joffrey on the throne of the Seven Kingdoms, by the simple expedient of killing everyone ahead of him in the line of succession and blaming his brother Tyrion for the murders.

More observations:

How old is Sansa? Is she 16? 17? She’s conveyed as a less important character in this outline - why? Queen of the Seven Kingdoms? She dies? Jaime kills her? What is her relationship with Aria like? Are/were they close? Or was Sansa initially meant to be a two-tone villain who betrayed her family? Is she overwhelmingly beautiful? Or is she the plainer sister?

It’s quite clear that both ASOIAF Aria and ASOIAF Sansa are entirely different characters to their outlined counterparts.

In the outline, Tyrion sacks and burns Winterfell. In ASOIAF, It’s Theon and later Ramsay who does this. In the outline, it’s Bran, Aria, and Catelyn who go beyond the Wall. In ASOIAF, it’s Bran, Meera, and Jojen (and Hodor). There are a couple of other changes made here, but there seems a pattern where certain acts *still* occur in the main series, they’re just given to different characters (which makes sense, as GRRM grows organically with his characters.)

So, when we take into account the fact of ASOIAF Sansa being considered a main/key character, her marriage to Tyrion, and the possibility of her being the first to reunite with Jon - perhaps GRRM did keep a Stark x Snow romance - but gave it to a different sister.

In the 2016 Balticon report, GRRM stated he wished that ‘some past things didn’t have such strong foreshadowing and that newer things had stronger foreshadowing.’ You can make a case for J0nrya foreshadowing in the first book, but I’d argue that ACOK/ASOS is where the Jon/Sansa clues and foreshadowing is rife. (and there are certainly Jon/Sansa clues in the first book as well.)

Now to circle back. The Aria of this outline doesn’t have a personality - none of the characters do, really. We don’t know how old she is. Is she a teenager? Is she close in age to Jon? We know she has her needle, so can infer she is a fighter and spirited, but is there a soft romantic side to her? Does she cry at songs like her aunt Lyanna? Does she yearn for love? Is she immensely beautiful? For a narrative like this? It'd be likely if Jon and Tyrion are fighting to the death over her, sort of like gallant knights fighting each other to win the heart of a fair maiden (very romantic and idealistic, mirroring the songs and the stories).

(This is how I am certainly inferring such a scene would have gone).

The ASOIAF Aria we know and love took on a life of her own. She’s described as plain looking (some envision her to be more beautiful than characters like D@ny, Cersei, and Sansa though). - But just quickly on that matter, Aria is indeed compared to Lyanna in looks and spirit, though Lyanna’s beauty was described as wild and implied as non-conventional; different perspectives have different opinions on her. For example, Cersei, Jaime, Devan, the Maester who wrote the WOIAF don’t consider her anything special. Whereas Ned, Robert, and Rhaegar do. So it’s one of those instances where you aren’t exactly sure. In any case, Aria's looks aren't a driving factor in her arc, and I don’t see ASOIAF Tyrion (as creepy as he is) suddenly falling in love with her due to mere attraction because presently, Aria is all knobbly knees and elbows, stick thin, a child, not a maiden, who will still be a pre-teen at the end of the series, if there is no massive time jump.

SHE'S JUST A BABY.

But then, Tyrion did lust after Sansa, so there’s that… however ….

Sansa’s beauty is a driving force in her narrative arc. She is objectified for her beauty. Preyed upon because of her beauty; in many ways it causes her to suffer. It’s largely why LF is grossly infatuated with her - she’s beautiful like Catelyn. Tyrion is attracted to Sansa and wishes to bed her, the H0und intends to rape her during the Blackwater battle, he also comments on her breasts growing, Joffrey sexually humiliates her in court, Ser Dontos has a pervy infatuation with her, Cersei despises Sansa because she is younger, more beautiful etc which she views as a threat.

So, beauty is pertinent to Sansa’s narrative, and it isn’t vain or shallow to say so because it’s a large part as to why she suffers. And her physical beauty is meant to compliment her indulgence in romantic idealism; knights, chivalry, courtly love, beautiful appearances thus equating to good people. It also contributes to perceptions of Sansa; nothing more than a pretty, stupid girl with naive dreams.

So back to ASOIAF Aria: Her arc largely surrounds nature & nature, mercy, war trauma and survival, friendship, belonging, and family. For the majority of the story, she is a traumatised 10 year old travelling through a war torn country, witness to awful horrors, forced to assume multiple identities, until she goes to Braavos and begins her faceless man arc. But this is obviously not her endgame - she is going to go home eventually, that is quite clear.

You can argue she had a little crush on Gendry (as a 10 year old would) (and perhaps something may happen with him when she is older, I think GRRM has played with it.) But other than that, romance is not a central part of Aria's arc insofar. For outline Aria it was, but current ASOIAF Aria is on a completely different tangent all together.

(and that poor poor child is suffering immensely while this is all occurring). Currently, she has no time for/interest in it. She hasn’t been involved in betrothals/marriages, or had men lusting after her (save ‘Mercy’ and people men making brutalising sexual comments towards her). She disguises herself as a boy for a good chunk of the story as it is safer to travel.

No, I’m not trying to reduce any sexual trauma/objectification she suffers, she’s a little girl for heaven’s sake - I’m merely stating that what she is going through is in some ways similar and different to what Sansa is going through. (Who currently is in a in a very Lolita type situation with LF and men sexually intimidating/abusing her has been a key part of her arc - as I said, she suffers significantly due to her beauty. She is something to possess, she isn't real or tangible, she is a beautiful maid with a vast claim to the North.)

Anyway, ASOIAF Aria finds songs and romance ‘stupid.’

“Sansa would have shed a tear for true love, but Arya just thought it was stupid.” (Arya VIII ASOS)

(but that doesn’t mean she won’t encounter it later in life, it just means that at this point of the story, she isn’t interested/likely won't encounter some epic grand romance that outline Aria was likely destined for. (And she’s 11 for god’s sake!).

‘But Sansa was dreaming of love at that age!’

Sansa has been a romantic idealistic dreamer since she was a little girl. She adored those stories and is the literal embodiment of the mediaeval pre-raphaelite maiden depicted in art. It’s central to her story arc, to her qualities, and how she functions/copes with things around her. “Life is not a song.” Is so fundamental to that.

So to reiterate ASOIAF Aria is a completely different character to outline Aria- for all we know OG Aria was 15 years old, very beautiful to the point of men duelling over her, (just as depicted in art above) likely a romantic heroine, had consistent memory lapses that would cause her to “realise in terror, she had fallen for Jon,” and based off of GRRM’s past works - was probably a redhead.

“But OG Aria has a sword named needle!”

Indeed, but as I stated, we don’t know anything else about her beyond that. Many have theorised that D@ny and Jon are the epic romance of the series, but it’s clear from this particular outline that GRRM intended for it to be Aria and Jon as the epic major romance of the series. That would mean Aria would have to be a somewhat romantically-inclined character, for this development to appear natural and not forced. Based on her current ASOIAF arc, it doesn’t track for her character to make a sudden 180. Her softness and vulnerable moments come from thinking of her family and home. Insofar, this isn’t equated to yearning for love, romance, children, as Sansa has done from the beginning of the series.

Now, we know GRRM is a self-proclaimed romantic, and ASOIAF Sansa exists very much as a deconstruction of romanticism.

“He said he is a romantic, in the classical sense. He said the trouble with being a romantic is that from a very early age you keep having your face smashed into the harshness of reality. That things aren’t always fair, bad things happen to good people, etc. he said it’s a realistic world, so romantics are burned quite often. This theme of romantic idealism conflicting with harsh reality is something he finds very dramatic and compelling, and he weaves it into his work.” (2005 interview).

Sansa is arguably, the embodiment of this dismantling. But that doesn’t necessarily mean that love isn’t real, or that it doesn’t deserve to exist in a gritty world such as Westeros. There were many couples who had good, happy marriages, even after war and loss and trauma. For example, apart from the Jon Snow situation, Ned and Catelyn had a remarkably healthy relationship. So it is possible - the takeaway from the series is not that hoping is meaningless, dreams are meaningless, love is meaningless. More so that it is complicated, and it must coexist alongside all the chaos in order to achieve a sort of

equilibrium. A literal ‘Dream of Spring’ a hope for happiness, rather than happiness itself. It tracks with the bittersweet conclusion to the series ; it is a grimdark story, but that doesn’t necessarily mean it’ll be a grimdark ending where everyone good and noble dies and wishes/dreams/innate desires remain unfulfilled.

In fact, I argue that a lot of them will come true - but at what cost? It’ll be at the cost of loss and grief, of suffering upon suffering, but what’s inherently more powerful, what’s more subversive is having those characters persist and rebuild, regenerate, create a new world where love and chaos undoubtedly exist alongside each other, but just because there is chaos, that does not mean the love is miniscule or cancels out entirely.

Because if all these characters have the most unsatisfying, awful conclusions known to man, well - what was the point of everything? What was the point of their journeys? This isn’t a nihilistic story, and it won’t have a nihilistic ending like everyone assumes. It’s far more difficult for an author to craft such an ending, balancing things out whilst acknowledging all the loss and still holding out hope for a better future to come. That brighter days will arrive. That winter will end, and spring will be on the horizon.

“We may lose our heads, it’s true. But what if we prevail?” (Davos I ADWD).

And that right there, sums it up perfectly.

So you need characters like Sansa, characters like Brienne, D@ny, (you know what let’s just add all the Stark children of the series to the list, because every single character arc is about remaining resilient and prevailing in some way or another).

But it’s Sansa who exists as the meta character that embodies/indulges in all those romantic ideals that GRRM is intent on exploring - it thus makes perfect sense for it to be her that experiences the romance arc. Many people think she’ll end up with the H0und, or Harry the douchebag, because it’s a part of her growing up, maturing, learning from her negative biases etc etc but she shouldn’t have to be with abusive or douchy men to learn that. She’s already learned and suffered enough.

“It is my claim they want. No one will ever marry me for love.”

And how utterly heartbreaking that she has resigned to think this, with her arc only mid-way. But importantly, just a few chapters later she enters the garden of undisputed beauty and equates the snow landing on her face with romantic kisses, she dreams of innocence and winterfell, despite lamenting how she doesn’t belong in such a pure world, she steps out into it all the same. And she builds her home in the snow, content and for once - she’s the child she is, the child she is yearning to be.

So Sansa falling in love with Jon makes sense on a characteristic level. It’s something she never would have considered as a sheltered child, not just because he’s her bastard half brother but because he just didn’t exist in her idea of how the world works. He didn’t fit in with her idea of knights, and courtly love and chivalry. He wasn’t a gallant golden prince, he was dark, sulky and brooding. He existed on the parameters of her life, and she was comfortable with that distant association - but she still loved him, and he her.

Falling in love with Jon would equate to a dismantling of these previous prejudices she held; he’s utterly unconventional, the opposite of what she has shown attraction to (despite her first ‘love’ being Waymar Royce, who resembles Jon strikingly). The man she never really considered beyond courtesy and some scarce, fond memories - to be the one who restores her faith in men, in love, in dreams.

“Realising with terror that she has fallen in love with Jon… their passion will continue to torment them.”

tracks with Sansa’s characterisation particularly, her memory lapses, her clouded judgement, and inability to interpret things correctly (and something as confusing as this would certainly cause her to have some cognitive dissonance going on).

Not to mention caution around well… men. Because who would ever marry her for love? Who would ever take her for true? Love her without expectations and judgement? It’s Jon. Who has been there since the very beginning, who has been a silent unconscious hero, the answer to her prayers, who embodies all those romantic and knightly ideals she has so desperately wanted - despite her being unaware. Who has advocated for her claim - above everyone else.

“No one will ever marry me for love.” And that infamous Jon chapter follows. Jon who is never quite far from Sansa’s suitors. Jon, who has a similar dream of rebuilding Winterfell, of having children named after lost siblings, who wants to woo a girl by giving her a rose and loving beneath the heart tree - the heart of Winterfell. Who would undeniably want to have that beautiful soul-nourishing love he never received as a child, that he believes is perpetually unavailable to him.

Above all, they just fit together. It fits with GRRM’s William Faulkner-esque “the human heart in conflict with itself".” And this is a perfectly subversive way of encapsulating that Jon confusing brotherly love and affection with romance, struggling with the shame of it all - especially post-resurrection, the religious disillusionment that would occur, the notion of Jon being loved by the kind of girl he believed he never had the right to, who his deeply romantic heart is yearned for. (There is a reason GRRM let us know how badly Jon yearns for domesticity, Winterfell love, children, and a wife. He associates his love for Ygritte with her singing, her hair, her smile. He dreams of her tending to him with gentle hands) The simple yet meaningful things that have been denied to him because of his bastardry. And god, what better way to torment these two than by having them fall for each other - realising they fit each other so perfectly, yet tormented by their familial relation. Until, as the outline puts, the parentage is revealed.

Do I believe they will act on their feelings pre-parentage reveal? No. It’ll likely exist in the subtext, in private thoughts and actions. Angst, guilt. Again, the stuff that GRRM loves - the human heart is in conflict with itself.

Much like Lord Byron’s ‘The Bride of Abydos.” Where half-siblings fall in love with each other until they realise they are actually cousins. Lord Byron, who was famously in love with his half sister Augusta, who was a stranger to him for a good portion of his life until they properly got to know each other and fell in love. (Who does that sound like?’)

And if you’re wondering how Jon and Sansa could possibly connect to Lord Byron, well there is a ‘Byron the Beautiful’ in Alayne II AFFC, and Alayne I TWOW. GRRM has further instilled characters by the name of “Manfred” which is in reference to Lord Byron’s infamous work of the same name. (I urge you to check out all of Cappy's Byron metas, they are fantastic.

And, Jon has been called a “Brooding, Byronic, romantic heroine whom all the girls love.” GRRM knows what Byronic is inferring - he isn’t daft, he’s a writer - he reads other works and takes influence and sprinkles in so many things.

A Byronic character involves:

. . romantic melancholy, guilt for secret sin, pride, defiance, restlessness, alienation, revenge, remorse, moodiness, and such noble virtues as honor, altruism, courage, and pure love for a gentle woman. (Poetry Foundation, Lord Byron)

“GRRM: I was always intensely Romantic, even when I was too young to understand what that meant. But Romanticism has its dark side, as any Romantic soon discovers… which is where the melancholy comes in, I suppose. I don’t know if this is a matter of artistic influences so much as it is of temperament. But there’s always been something in the twilight that moves me, and a sunset speaks to me in a way that no sunrise ever has.”

Infinity plus:

And isn’t that exactly what he would be exploring with Jon and Sansa? It isn’t a conventional romance by any means. It could never exist normally until Jon’s parentage is revealed. And that is the tormented nature of it, that is the “bittersweetness” of it - it is rooted in realism, yes - and that to me, is Sansa receiving her true love, countering that no one would ever marry her for love. The gods will grant it to her, - but it’s wrapped up in this darker, morally ambiguous thing that is confusing for her, even though Jon would be her dream come true - he isn’t this neat little courtly golden package, but he embodies all those ideals more than any man she’s actually met.

It’s subversive to what both the characters and the readers expect, and it’s just a brilliant plot twist that screams unpredictability whilst fitting together like a perfect puzzle. It creates internal conflict and evokes those themes that GRRM loves to explore. By giving the ‘heroes’ of the series a motif such as incest is extremely bold; because it challenges the reader greatly. Some people don’t want Jon to end up with Sansa because it contradicts the image that they have of him in his head - the heroic male who will save the world with his heroic counterpart and together they shall rule the seven kingdoms. To embrace his father’s family, claim a dragon, fulfil the prophecy, be the third head of the dragon, reject his stark-ness. Very predictable. Done to death a thousand times over, and yet - it is what the general audience wants/expects. It’s what the dudebros who call him the ‘GOAT’ want, it’s what the Targ stans want, it’s what the show watchers wanted - but what does Jon want?

“Yet he could not let the wildlings breach the Wall, to threaten Winterfell and the north, the barrowlands and the Rills, White Harbor and the Stony Shore, even the Neck. For eight thousand years the men of House Stark had lived and died to protect their people against such ravagers and reavers . . . and bastard-born or no, the same blood ran in his veins. Bran and Rickon are still at Winterfell besides. Maester Luwin, Ser Rodrik, Old Nan, Farlen the kennelmaster, Mikken at his forge and Gage by his ovens . . . everyone I ever knew, everyone I ever loved.” (Jon II ASOS).

“I would need to steal her if I wanted her love, but she might give me children. I might someday hold a son of my own blood in my arms. A son was something Jon Snow had never dared dream of, since he decided to live his life on the Wall. I could name him Robb. Val would want to keep her sister's son, but we could foster him at Winterfell, and Gilly's boy as well. Sam would never need to tell his lie. We'd find a place for Gilly too, and Sam could come visit her once a year or so. Mance's son and Craster's would grow up brothers, as I once did with Robb.

"He wanted it, Jon knew then. He wanted it as much as he had ever wanted anything. I have always wanted it, he thought, guiltily. May the gods forgive me. It was a hunger inside him, sharp as a dragonglass blade.” (Jon XII ASOS).

“Red eyes, Jon realised, but not like Melisandre's. He had a weirwood's eyes. Red eyes, red mouth, white fur. Blood and bone, like a heart tree. He belongs to the old gods, this one. And he alone of all the direwolves was white. Six pups they'd found in the late summer snows, him and Robb; five that were grey and black and brown, for the five Starks, and one white, as white as Snow.”

He had his answer then." (Jon XII ASOS)

“He was the blood of Winterfell, a man of the Night's Watch. I will not father a bastard, he told her. I will not. I will not. "You know nothing, Jon Snow," she whispered.” (Jon VI ASOS)

“Ygritte answered for him. "His name is Jon Snow. He is Eddard Stark's blood, of Winterfell." (Jon VIII ACOK)

"Then you must do what needs be done," Qhorin Halfhand said. "You are the blood of Winterfell and a man of the Night's Watch." (Jon VI ASOS).

“You can't be the Lord of Winterfell, you're bastard-born, he heard Robb say again. And the stone kings were growling at him with granite tongues. You do not belong here. This is not your place. When Jon closed his eyes he saw the heart tree, with its pale limbs, red leaves, and solemn face. The weirwood was the heart of Winterfell, Lord Eddard always said . . . but to save the castle Jon would have to tear that heart up by its ancient roots, and feed it to the red woman's hungry fire god. I have no right, he thought. Winterfell belongs to the old gods.” (Jon XII ASOS)

“He sat on the bench and buried his head in his hands. Why am I so angry? he asked himself, but it was a stupid question. Lord of Winterfell. I could be the Lord of Winterfell. My father's heir.” (Jon XII ASOS).

“If I could show her Winterfell . . . give her a flower from the glass gardens, feast her in the Great Hall, and show her the stone kings on their thrones. We could bathe in the hot pools, and love beneath the heart tree while the old gods watched over us.” (Jon V ASOS).

“If he must perish, let it be with a sword in his hand, fighting his father's killers. He was no true Stark, had never been one … but he could die like one. Let them say that Eddard Stark had fathered four sons, not three.” (Jon IX AGOT).

Look, at the end of the day - we don't know how the story will go, but based off of Jon’s character arc? His thoughts? His actions? His relationships with his siblings? The fact that he has warged into a magical beast directly associated with Starks? The North? The Old Gods? The weir wood trees? I think that instead of GRRM having Jon go down the conventional disadvantaged male hero finding out he is a secret prince and thus becoming King and a proper Targ, GRRM will subvert expectations (much to audience displeasure) and do the opposite.

Learning of his true identity will just cause more angst and a major identity crisis. The one thing Jon finds real and solid, that no one can take from him - is that he is Ned Stark’s son. He raised him. Perhaps they don’t share a direct blood link. But that doesn’t matter, what matters is that he was raised by him, loved by him. So instead of choosing his father’s family; embracing the secret prince persona and fighting for the throne - he’ll choose his mother’s family. And I think that is beautifully conclusive.

But back to Jon and Sansa. GRRM is given the opportunity to explore the sort of impact this incest motif has on fundamentally good people. And I think this is what he originally intended to do with Jon and Aria.

Yes, we have Jaime and Cersei, but this is real sibling incest and rife with toxic narcissism, possession etc. We have the T@rgaryens, which are messy beyond belief and practice it due to blood purity.

But Jon and Sansa clearly differ from the rest, and that is because they exist partly as foils as to what we previously have seen. Similar to Jonnel x Sansa. By intentionally refraining from the development of a properly-close sibling relationship, making Jon and Sansa fundamental opposites visually, and associating them with entirely different cultures (yet writing their core personas as the same, their dreams compatible, their thought process and idealism similar).

GRRM manages to pave the way into such a romance that comes as a shock to the characters, the narrative, and readers themselves. Because no one, absolutely no one would see it coming, and the people who have been privy to the theory - immediately dismiss it - and become quite angry when it is brought up. Like I said earlier, a knee-jerk reaction.

To quote this brilliant meta right here:

‘Whether Jon and Sansa fall in love is up to the author and his intended exploration of literary/mythic themes that his predecessors have deployed. He is not writing from (or for) the moral values of show watchers and book readers, or their anecdotal hopes for how things “should be.” He’s writing a narrative that breaks away from conventional storytelling and what we expect from such characters.’

…

‘ I don’t believe the author is giving up completely on the romantic dream. He has made Sansa more cautious, converted her dreams into mere prayers, and has forced her to examine her assumptions, but he’s not turning her into the H0und, who is too pessimistic and fatalistic as a suitor. Sandor’s assertion that all knights are killers makes fantasy so small, it’s eliminated. I think he is setting Sansa on a path where her dreams do die, and her life becomes about as romantic as that smokestack in Cleveland - until they start to come alive again when she travels North to the Wall.’

'That cold, hard reality is still present in the fact that they are brother and sister, but once Jon’s parentage is revealed, this will change. Like an inverted Cinderella (clock striking 12), the reality will become fantasy again. But it’s still inladen with this bitter reality of their relations. So taking this into account, I believe Jon and Sansa could happen because there is no other couple in the series with which GRRM can explore his fascination with fantasy becoming “smaller,” but not completely shrinking altogether. There are no two better characters who represent these ideas, who have the same quietly domestic desires - who do not (at the moment) actively lust for power and cause it to blind them.'

So in essence, Jon and Sansa exist as the subversion of romance. In a twisted, loving sort of way that is morally conflicting to the characters and audiences (for a time). That has existed between the lines, subtly and implicitly. That the audience gives absolutely no thought, because why would they? And if they do, they are abhorred by it - but I’d argue this is the entire point. But not for the reasons you think, not because of the incest - or J0nerys would disgust them.

From the moment he started the series, GRRM has employed incest as a major motif that impacts both the narrative and the characters - the causes the war, that contributes to T@rgaryen values, legacy etc, that propels aspects of narcissism and vitriol for characters like Cersei. It’s really really interesting stuff, as uncomfortable as it is - there are no other works that explore it so messily and beautifully with such nuance.

I believe people seriously underestimate GRRM’s use of omission and subtext. Seriously, just because something is not explicitly stated, doesn’t mean it isn’t there. Unfortunately fans have such a surface level reading of the text, that they are unable to peel back the layers and get to its core. They don’t consider literary influences, or art, or the Romantic movement or anything. They claim they want a complex story that is subversive, yet they cheer for the three-headed dragon theory and all the most predictable plot points that have been absolutely done to death. But then they turn up their noses at anything that goes against the grain, or insinuates otherwise.

R + L = J is a great example of existence within the subtext, yet nobody denies that it is there. No one is called crazy or delusional for it. Ned never thinks of Jon’s true parentage despite harbouring that secret for years, because it is buried deep in his subconscious.

And much to the audience’s surprise (and dismay I'm sure) that is how Jon and Sansa will manifest. This is the human heart in conflict with Jon and Sansa, but not just them - the readers as well. It’s pointing to us, asking us how we’ll possibly handle it. We’re meant to feel this conflict of emotions - anguish and torment and yet hope for something ineffable - just like the characters.

To be able to evoke that as a writer is one of the most impressive feats I can think of - and for the majority of it to exist at this point, in a subconscious limbo? How utterly complex and painful and raw and intelligent but oh so very brilliant. Perhaps one of the most compelling things to come out of this entire series, if only the general audience was open to such discussions. But alas, we must contend with the community we have, and hope for a dream of spring to come upon us.

#jonsa #jon x sansa #meta #anti asoiaf fandom #jonsa meta #long post #lord byron #incest motif #original outline #literary subversion #sansa stark #jon snow

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franklyimissparis · 9 months

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wait i'm new here why does everyone think something happened in india

hi! welcome! everyone is mostly speculating but there’s a few things we know abt the india trip/specifically the aftermath of it that leads us to know that something went down (regardless of whether or not there were romantic/sexual undertones to it):

long story short, paul left india early with jane asher, his fiancé at the time, and john stayed. john was notably deeply depressed and suicidal at the time of the trip as well. and things were reportedly never the same between them.

there are quotations from geoff emerick about how the lads were fundamentally different after india and, though they wouldn’t speak about it, he got the idea that something had happened that changed things within the group and made those relationships icy.

there’s also a scene in get back where john and paul are speaking about india when john mentions “what were we doing… who was writing all those songs in your room” and then mimes fellatio to a microphone 😭

michael gerber wrote at hey dullblog this which i think summarises fans’ questions/theories about what happened between them nicely:

“Sometimes I think the inciting incident was something external, something private that happened in the world—John and Paul started having sex, or stopped, or talked about it, or stopped talking about it; perhaps something powerful happened inside the friendship at the core of the Beatles. One of them said or did something, and the other guy got mad, or felt betrayed, or something.”

honestly i can’t do all the elements at play justice as well as other people can but i would HIGHLY recommend listening to another kind of mind’s pizza and fairytales series which focuses on john and paul’s relationship in the 70s and what led up to all of this, as well as their sexualities and john’s mental health issues. episode 4 discusses the india trip and theorises what went down in a very thoughtful and comprehensive way :))

(and this is the article that quotation comes from, it’s just one opinion tbh but it’s an interesting take)

#sorry this is kind of long 😭 the lore goes so deep and i could have gone on longer but i had to reign it in at some point #and there are others who are far better about citing sources and painting the picture #there are so many theories about what happened and i have my own opinions on it as well but it’s extremely interesting to look into #and truthfully we will probably never really know what happened #john lennon #paul mccartney #mclennon #the beatles #what happened in india

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chcrryade · 3 months

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⠀EVERY TIME,⠀I MAKE IT SO OUTRAGEOUS! ˚ ◯ ⁺⠀⠀⸻⠀⠀Born out of just the right mix of spite, desperation, and greed, CHERRYADE ( 체리 에이드 ) are a last-ditch attempt—a withered hand clawing its way out of the grave—at boy group fame for their managing company JAGUAR. Following their previous list of tragedies, the seven-piece ensemble (cobbled together with more members that weren’t even signed to them to begin with that those that were) seemed to be yet another set-up, another failed venture that would last a year or two at the very most before a scandal ripped them apart from the inside out and they were shoved aside to make room for the next five minutes of fame JAGUAR were chasing.

However, they seemed to be the ones that broke the mould of those that had come before them. Wrapped in an almost artificially sugary-sweet concept with the uneasy-on-the-eyes colour scheme to match (although the contrasting tang of their sharp personalities cut through the façade more often than not), CHERRYADE saw success after their debut release ‘DOUBLE DIP,’ a five-track mini album that made everything seem a little bit more real, proving all those that had been calling bullshit wrong. They were here, and they were hopefully here to stay—for better or for worse, completely uncaring of whether people liked them or not; as was per with all of JAGUAR’s attempts before them.

They were (predictably) not without scandal, and allegations were thrown at them not long after debut for both their less-than-stellar treatment of their fellow idols in the industry and having loose lips when it came to secrets that weren’t always their own, but surprisingly there was nothing to be heard about infighting this time around. Some said they were just the ones that managed to get along, or they had turned over new leaves, but others theorised that they were all still horrible, and this time had simply united to wreak their havoc on their mutual enemies instead.

Still, despite the articles and the fan videos and the general confusion of the crowds at all of their shows while they wondered if they should be throwing rocks or waving their lightsticks in time, CHERRYADE persevered. Next was the full album ‘TASTE TEST’ in March 2022, one that, despite the more suggestive nature of the songs within, was another that was met with widespread success. Everything seemed to be going swimmingly—until the November 2022 one-time-only reunion of JAGUAR’s first and only co-ed duo JUST4U, who ran from 2009 until 2016. Another explosive scene of theirs erupted right in plain view, for everyone to see, more insults thrown and glass smashed. An apology (that, although was signed by Seungdae, no-one believes he actually wrote a word of—witnesses said he was egging them on, if anything) was released after the media got ahold of the story, and after that all things JAGUAR (and by proxy, all things CHERRYADE) seemed to fall quiet for a while. No comeback was announced, nor rumoured, nor.. Anything. It took the leader of the seven himself making a stand and asking for something to be done for any more moves to be made, and not terribly long after—May 2023, to be exact—the mini album ‘SWEET (SOUR)’ was dropped.

It seemed the hype hadn’t died down at all, as fans were just as excited as they’d been for the previous two releases, and the attention was back in full swing. Next came the second full album ‘CLUB SODA’ in November 2023, and most recently the mini album ‘LEMON ON ICE’ in April 2024. Allegations and accusations have followed them all throughout their careers, ranging from bullying to drug use to renting rooms in love hotels to the countless rumours of infighting that seem to crop up every two weeks. But CHERRYADE just keeps on pushing, not paying any mind to any article that drags their name through the mud for the nth time.

They have yet to take the title of JAGUAR’s longest running group (as that crown still belongs to the aforementioned duo JUST4U), but fans are hopeful and non-fans are more.. Curious. One journalist described them as a group that was a little like an incoming car crash—you don’t know how things are going to end up, but you still don’t want to look away.

So, whether you’re dancing along to their (admittedly catchy) discography, or praying on their imminent disbandment, CHERRYADE will be here to welcome you all the same. Grab a gumdrop and make yourself comfortable, because it’s almost certain that you’re going to be here for a while.

⁺⠀ෆ ⠀› ⠀ ᶻ .ᐟ BACK2BASICS…

GROUP NAME⠀☆⠀CHERRYADE ( 체리 에이드 )

LABEL⠀☆⠀JAGUAR

DEBUT DATE⠀☆⠀AUG 1, 2021

DEBUT RELEASE⠀☆⠀DOUBLE DIP ( MINI-ALBUM )

CONCEPT⠀☆⠀COLOURFUL, SUGARY GOODNESS!

GREETING⠀☆⠀CRACK, FIZZLE, POP! WE’RE CHERRYADE!

FANDOM NAME⠀☆⠀SODA BOMBS

⁺⠀ෆ ⠀› ⠀ ᶻ .ᐟ LINEUP…

KIL DOYEON⠀✶⠀‘98 LEADER MAIN DANCER

DUAN ‘JALEN’ JIEYANG⠀✶⠀‘97 MAIN VOCALIST DANCER

JEON HAEIL⠀✶⠀‘99 LEAD VOCALIST LEAD RAPPER

QIAO YIJUN⠀✶⠀‘01 MAIN RAPPER CENTRE

HWAN ‘GOGO’ MINHUI⠀✶⠀‘02 MAIN DANCER VOCALIST

AHN JAEHEE⠀✶⠀‘02 MAIN RAPPER VISUAL

LEE HASUN⠀✶⠀‘03 MAIN VOCALIST MAKNAE

⁺⠀ෆ ⠀› ⠀ ᶻ .ᐟ DISCOGRAPHY…

AUGUST 2021⠀‘DOUBLE DIP’⠀MINI ALBUM

MARCH 2022⠀‘TASTE TEST’⠀FULL ALBUM

MAY 2023⠀‘SWEET (SOUR)’⠀MINI ALBUM

NOVEMBER 2023⠀‘CLUB SODA’⠀FULL ALBUM

APRIL 2024⠀‘LEMON ON ICE’⠀MINI ALBUM

#⠀˚ ਏਓ .. ⠀give you every first⠀⠀⸻⠀⠀intro.#if i get rid of all my drafts it’ll panic me into getting other things done #also so sorry for how AWFUL i cut that gif i will redo it later maybe #kpop oc #fictional kpop group #fictional idol community #idol oc #fictional idol group

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mickeym4ndy · 2 months

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With all due respect (and I really hope you don’t take this as an attack because it’s genuinely not meant to be one) do you think Ian loves Mickey at all? I know what he did in S6 was shitty but sometimes I think we have to keep in mind that things were written the way they were because the writers were trying to erase Mickey and Gallavich from the narrative at the time. Obviously, you can think however you want but saying Ian never thought about Mickey or that he never would have visited him if he didn’t have a selfish incentive just seems like a bad faith reading of the situation (to me)

Of course I think Ian loves Mickey!

I think maybe you misunderstood what I meant when I said I didn’t think Ian thought about Mickey and the incentive to visit him. I probably didn’t word it very well. Also, this is really just my opinion. I’m not saying it’s exactly what the case was.

I don’t mean that he stopped caring and therefore Mickey never crossed his mind, I mean that Ian was desperate to move on from (and forget about imo) everything that had happened in that time in his life (rightfully so). And Mickey was a huge part of that. In my opinion, it began that he just didn’t want to burden Mickey and he felt guilty for everything that happened between them. He was also really struggling mentally.

When his MH improved he felt guilty about leaving Mickey in jail. Every time he thought about it he felt terrible - for Mickey, for how he ended it, for what he put him through (I’m not saying he should, but he probably did feel that way). It was probably really hard for Ian to think about Mickey and remember anything but the bad times for a long time. And that was hard for Ian to deal with.

Ian’s an avoidant guy. He runs from things he doesn’t want to deal with/ think about. This was hard for Ian. He felt bad every time he thought about it so he threw himself into moving on. What I mean is, he pushed his feelings and thoughts about Mickey down deep. When Mickey crossed his mind (which Ian did say happened a lot) he did everything he could to stop it. His feelings didn’t go away at all, but he absolutely suppressed them.

It’s the main reason that once Ian sees Mickey in season 7, he quite literally can’t resist him. That’s what I mean by “out of sight, out of mind.” It wasn’t that he didn’t care, but it was easier for Ian to push thoughts of Mickey away. Mickey was gone! Ian had a new job, friends, boyfriends, family stuff. Plenty to keep him distracted. (Mickey didn’t have that, he had nothing to do but to think about Ian).

But once Ian sees him, everything he’s suppressed about Mickey comes rushing back. He can’t ignore it anymore or distract himself anymore. Literally one sniff (lol) of Mickey and the guy is a goner, ready to do whatever he can to be near the guy (if even for a while). He knows he can’t go with Mickey to Mexico, but he knows he loves him. It’s why he’s so happy to see him in prison.

That’s also what I mean by that Ian would probably continue to bury his feelings if Mickey hadn’t escaped. And wouldn’t have visited him. By incentive, I don’t mean Ian would have to get something out of it (tho I don’t think is completely unlikely tbh). I just mean something would have happened that causes Ian to be unable to bury his feelings anymore.

(One of the reasons why I love fics where Mickey gets out of prison after 8 years is cos u often see this dynamic of Mickey who had done nothing but think about Ian for years and had finally made some peace with the fact that they weren’t together, and Ian who had convinced himself he’d moved on and was okay but realises after being around Mickey like twice that he definitely hasn’t.)

Secondly, the fact that the writers were trying to erase Mickey and gallavich is why I think this. The writers wanted Ian not to think about Mickey. So when they wrote it, they wrote him not caring. In hindsight, we can analyze and theorise about the times Ian might have thought about Mickey. But the reality is, that isn’t what the writers wanted to portray. I think headcanons and theories are great and help us make sense of a poorly written show. But I think it’s important to remember that that’s what they are - headcanons, not canon. For example, I’m in total agreement with the headcanon that Mickey was one of the reasons that Ian was so passionate about the Gay Jesus stuff. But, I think it’s important to remember that the writers did not write it that way. They had no intentions to have Mickey be part of anything more at all.

So yea, I don’t think Ian stopped caring or loving Mickey or that he never thought about him. I think he loved him so much that it was extremely hard for him to think about him, so he tried really hard not to. I think there’s great theories and analysis and headcanons that look into why Ian acted how he did. But knowing that the writers weren’t thinking about Mickey at all, I don’t really buy into all the theories that everything Ian did in seasons 6-9 somehow connected to how much he loved/ missed Mickey. Some things Mickey just wasn’t a part of. (Example - I don’t think Ian’s “I miss Mickey” to Mandy is as deep as some other people do. If you do that’s fine! Think what you want. It’s just my opinion).

The show became a bit of a mess. So theories and headcanons are how you get through and make sense of it. But you can disagree or agree with them. This is just my theory :)

Anyway, that’s basically what I think lol, just my opinion, so hope that cleared that up. Thanks for asking, I enjoy things like this :)

#I didn’t think this was a personal attack dw #hope it all makes sense #lmk what u think lol #ian gallagher #shameless #asks #mickey milkovich #gallavich #shameless meta #gallavich meta

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tealin · 1 year

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Antarcticans

I may not have used my sketchbook as much as I thought I would, with regard to locations, but I did fill a few pages with one of my favourite pastimes back in The World: people sketching.

My biggest anxiety about going to McMurdo was the human factor. Whether it was school or work, a recurring motif in my life is that I do not do well in a big box full of Americans, and that is, almost literally, exactly what McMurdo is. Sure, the continent wants to kill you, and every way of getting to and around it comes with risk of serious accident, but the only thing I was actually afraid of was finding myself in a stressful social situation and not having any recourse to escape. I know how to build a snow cave. I don't know how to deflect the ire of people who've taken a set against me – and, for whatever reason, I tend to rub people in the States the wrong way. When I was shortlisted for the placement, the person handling the admin briefed me about the process and asked me if I had any further questions, and I raised this concern. She responded that, speaking purely from her own experience, she had never felt more comfortable being herself than when she was at McMurdo. Not knowing who 'herself' was, I took this with a grain of salt, but it was an encouraging answer nonetheless.

It turned out that the best thing about McMurdo was, in fact, those very people I had been afraid of. Everyone I met was absolutely splendid. In my first days there, my supervisor joked that if you shake the world, all the best people end up at the bottom; the remainder of my time there proved how right she was. One of the main things that attracted me to the Terra Nova story, and has kept me committed to it for so long, was how wonderful the people were – far outside what I had come to expect from humanity. Warm, genuine, accepting of and attentive to each other, a wide range of personalities and dispositions that nevertheless got on and functioned together as a society, in the face of environmental and emotional extremes ... I needed to know such people were possible, and clung to them as an ideal. It was a wonderful surprise to discover that they would not be out of place amongst their modern counterparts.

Is it because they're scientists, as someone theorised? But they're not – most of the people at McMurdo are support staff, working in the kitchen or waste disposal or shuttle fleet; helping the science happen, yes, but that's not necessarily why they're there, personally. Is it because a harsh environment triggers something in the human psyche to support each other, rather than compete? Maybe, but these people seem like they'd be solid wherever they are, and were like that before going South.

I suspect there is an element of self-selection – something about the sort of person who would want to go to Antarctica correlates with a certain mindset, one that gels extremely well with others who share it, however different they may be in other respects. There is no denying that everyone there is a bit odd. They tend to be types that exist on the fringes back in The World and, like me, may struggle to conform to its values. A few years ago, I came across this adage from an Antarctic veteran: "You go the first time for the adventure. You go the second time to relive the first time. You go the third time because you don't belong anywhere else." Many of them live in remote places, or travel, or do itinerant work when not on the Ice. There is a bit of a running gag in Where'd You Go, Bernadette? that everyone doing a mundane job in Antarctica is a high achiever in something amazing, who left it all behind – and that's not exactly untrue. Perhaps what unites Antarcticans is an awareness of what really matters, when you get right down to it: they've played the game enough to see through it, and are done with it. "Glory? He knew it for a bubble: he had proved himself to himself. He was not worrying about glory. Power? He had power." So Cherry wrote about Wilson in 1948, but many modern Antarcticans might sympathise. When you come out the other side of self-aggrandisement and jockeying for status, and are happy just to be yourself and let others be themselves, you get a happy, harmonious society. Or so it would seem.

At midnight on my last day there, I had a deep conversation with someone I'd only met in passing before, but who was totally down to have a long talk with a random stranger on a footbridge in the middle of the night. I presented her my hypothesis that no one at McMurdo was popular in high school. No, she replied; there may be a handful who were popular in high school ... but they're not popular at McMurdo. Maybe the secret is in there somewhere.

Anyway, I didn't do nearly as much people sketching as I'd have liked, given that the base was populated entirely by Characters, but these are the pages I did manage to get.

Two pages of random McMurdites, likely in the Galley:

These last four are from a meeting where team leaders were presenting their projects to some high muckymucks visiting from the NSF. I was only there because my project was allotted a space in the presentation, but the main focus was the massive Thwaites Glacier project, a collaboration between the US Antarctic Program and the British Antarctic Survey to study one of the most unstable regions in Antarctica. They quite rightly took up the whole meeting time, and the privilege of being there meant I learned a lot about the project. My longstanding habit is to draw during meetings, so I captured some of them in my sketchbook while absorbing the science into my head.

Notable characters in my sketches include: - David Vaughan, heading up the British contingent of the Thwaites team, was quite an engaging and affable guy but had a concentration scowl that puts mine in the shade. I was shocked when I heard he died of cancer earlier this year (2023) – a great loss to BAS, glaciology, and Antarctic science generally. - When Erin Pettit isn't studying glaciers with an eye to climate change, she's taking girls on wilderness adventures to foster an interest in science and art, as well as self-confidence. - Britney Schmidt, Queen of Icefin, not only earned my profound respect but has a whole episode of PBS's Terra dedicated to her work developing sub-ice autonomous robots with the aim of exploring Europa. (Seriously, so cool.)

I could go on about Antarctic people, but there's nothing so good as showing you, and luckily I can do just that. PBS sent a small team down in 2018 to do a YouTube series, and one of their episodes is all about the cool people who call McMurdo home. It might make my point better than all my whittering, and is certainly more fun. If you'd like to see more, Werner Herzog's film Encounters at the End of the World is much of the same, but more so. It had been recommended to me several times, but I hadn't managed to get my hands on it until a week before I left, when it turned out a Cambridge friend had a copy and lent it to me. 'I don't know how true it is,' he said, 'but I want it to be.' When I got back, I was happy to confirm to him that it was, indeed, exactly like that. And I miss it so much.

#antarctica #mcmurdo station #antarctic people #travel #david vaughan #erin pettit #werner herzog #encounters at the end of the world

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taranida · 5 months

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Tom the Poet or Tom the Filmmaker

I would like all my theories to have evidence that back them up. I’ve come from fandoms where things said are a cute thing, worth considering, but solid theorising comes with quotes, screenshots, counting toes and following the writer’s pattern of three hint and foreshadowings before the big reveal. Therefore, I’m going through the first game yet again to collect all this information and put it in something coherent, something I will be happy with. I hope that the waves of my research will carry me to the proper essay with all the proofs necessary on every statement I’ve made in my first pinned post.

But there are still questions that have no answers as far as I know. One of them: why Tom Zane was made into a filmmaker and by whom?

In Control’s AWE the cutscene where Tom and Alan meet is a toned-down version of their encounter in Room 665. Alan asks if Tom is the Tom, the poet and the diver and Tom replies that it was just a beloved character in his old film. They have the same conversation at the start of Room 665 in Alan Wake II.

Alan seemed always forget that he (or someone else) changed Tom’s identity to filmmaker, still convinced that Thomas Zane he encountered at the start of his journey was a poet and a diver. First, when Tom-the-filmmaker was introduced, I thought that Alan forgot who Zane was and what he learned about him (I wouldn’t put it past Alan: he forgot many things he wrote, even his birthdate somewhat slipped his mind — in 2010 or in the Dark Place; the guide for the first game states that he’s 31, when the statue near the Parliament Tower claims he was born in 1977), but in both cases he kept insisting that Tom was a poet. So, the opposite is true: Alan forgot that Tom now is a filmmaker.

But why is Tom made to be a filmmaker? Even the second game insists that the Tom was a poet: Cynthia notes this in her journal, marvelling at why everyone thinks that he was a filmmaker; even the boys of Old Gods of Asgard say “you need him [Tom] to write the ending,” “art, like Tom’s writing” and “it’s Tom’s story we are dealing with, he’s gotta be the one to rewrite it”. And they are the only three people who knew the real Tom Zane and have some credibility in what he really was: a poet or a filmmaker.

The boys, of course, are a discussion on their own; Tom and Alan are interchangeable in their heads, they might talk about Alan the writer, hence “write, writing, story, rewrite”, but Cynthia has no such issues. She never mistook Alan for Tom, she loved Tom her whole life, devoted to his wishes and for sure wouldn’t mess such a big part of his identity in her head.

Then we have This House of Dreams, where we can read poems, some of them are by Thomas Zane and the Bright Presence shows Samantha that he was indeed a poet. Let’s add Jesse Faden into the mix, who as well, remembers Thomas Zane being a poet and even recites one of his poems in Control’s recordings. She still believes he was a poet somewhere around 2019, judging by her words about her needing to be in New York soon. Only in AWE DLC when she hears Tom claiming he’s a filmmaker, she changes her mind. But at this time, she’s already in yet another Alan’s story, her beliefs shaped by his writing (or by the words of her therapist and this vision of Tom and Alan; take your pick).

So, the question remains: why was Tom made a filmmaker?

My belief here is that Alan (or Scratch — do not confuse with Mr. Scratch) had no need of a poet. In This House of Dreams we see two sets of poems: one is by Thomas Zane and another is by Alan himself, in Control’s AWE Alan also claims that he wrote poems, and what value can Tom-the-poet add to Alan’s attempts to escape? A filmmaker on the other hand, as Tom says in AWII, can make a companion piece for his manuscript. Hence the filmmaker, the auteur.

As a side note. I do believe that the real Thomas Zane never makes his appearance in any games, first we see the Bright Presence possessing the body of Tom, then we see yet another Alan’s face in the Dark Place, that takes shape of what he believes Tom Zane was, and this part of Alan becomes a filmmaker at some point in his journey. After all, as the real Tom once wrote:

When you’re lost You’re lost in your own company

#thomas zane #tom zane #alan wake #alan wake 2 #remedy entertainment #control game #control remedy #alan wake ii #RCU theory

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magicisrealandsoismyblog · 3 months

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Authors of Ao3, we need to talk

We often tell people here on Tumblr that they should comment on our fics if they like it, and while that is true,

this goes both ways!

If you like what someone commented, tell them!

If you return to their comment when your mood is down, tell them! If their theorising about what happened next inspired you to continue writing the next part, tell them! If you spent ages on the thing they pointed out and you're SO GLAD they noticed, tell them!

Engage in conversation with your readers in the comment section!

If you want the community on Ao3 to remain thriving and active, you have to take part in it as much as the readers do. Readers will not know how much their comment means to you if you don't tell them.

As a reader, nothing discourages me from commenting quite like a comment section with genuine, heartfelt comments about how much this fic meant to them and no response from the author. Yes, I could write down my feelings and appreciation for this fic as well, but the lack of response makes me think the author wouldn't read it anyway, so why bother?

As an author, I responded to a lovely, years-old comment yesterday that it still made me happy and encouraged me to continue writing when I doubt myself. It led to a lovely conversation with the commenter about where we were now, if we still read/wrote fanfiction and for what fandoms, like catching up with an old friend. It was scary to respond to the comment years late at first, but the interaction that followed was 100% worth it.

If you want to encourage readers to comment, responding to their comments directly and showing them how much you appreciate it is gonna be 100 times more effective than telling them that they should on Tumblr.

Most people don't like being told what to do, but most people love to hear that what they did had a positive impact on the people around them. That's what encourages real change. (I say, ironically, in a post where I tell people what to do).

So, long story short,

If you wish to have a thriving community in the comments on Ao3, a great way to make that happen is to reply to comments and build that community yourself!

Now, if you'll excuse me, I'm gonna go and tell some more people who replied to my old fics how much I appreciate them.

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ginevralinton · 1 year

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One way Thomas's death could be worse is if it was revealed that Francis later became a successful poet - not so well known that Alison or Mike (or even Fanny, Cap, Pat or Julian) would have heard of him, but successful enough in his time.

Except, this is Francis.

Turns out he'd actually found (or been given) Thomas's drafts and in progress/unpublished manuscripts, and subsequently picked out the best bits, refined some of the poems, whittled them down, merged some of them together - essentially edited them into a more 'publishable', more 'appealing' format.

(I'm sure there's something to be said here about the parallels to Francis rewriting and shaping the narrative of Thomas's fate in The Thomas Thorne Affair, but I digress)

Anyhow, maybe all is revealed when someone comes to Button House because they're doing a research project or a PhD on obscure 19th century poets. Or maybe, they're looking at the developments and origins of 'found poetry' and scholarship around Francis Button has indicated he might have borrowed a bit from his dead cousin's journals and manuscripts.

And Thomas is devastated - because Francis has supplanted him in yet another space that meant so much to him. And people either Francis is getting all the credit for what, at heart, are still Thomas's poems - still his words. Or, it's not being treated as a theft or as anything sad, but rather, as something that's interesting, something to be studied, theorised and written about in an academic context.

'At least people are reading it', might be said. 'He's made it more bearable' could also be added in. 'At least we know you wrote it really' might be offered, but - what can Thomas do?

I don't know - do with this what you will

EDIT: a workshop of filthy creation (5173 words) by Sheepyblue (I did this, but again, anyone else can do their thing with it)

(the only upside (?) of the latter reveal is that thomas essentially discovers found poetry and decides it is therefore absolutely legitimate to make poetry out of combining kylie minogue with the smiths, interspersed with his lines of his own:

in my life, why did I give valuable time

to people who didn't care if I lived or died?

o', in my death, why must i spend my time

with people who don't care how i might have lived?

o' but at least i still have my dreams because in my dreaming

you fell in love with me like I'm in love with you

but dreaming's all I can do, if only they'd come true

but I've been in the house too long now,

o' if only I had fled, back when I still could,

where might I be now?)

i'm so sorry

#bbc ghosts #thomas thorne #idk

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crepes-suzette-373 · 3 months

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Another conspiracy theory posting.

It has been mentioned that the Nerona in Imu's name might be a reference to Nero. Or perhaps specifically, a painting titled "Pochodnie Nerona", which depicts Christian martyrdom.

Now, if this is correct and not coincidence, this specifically makes Jupiter's naming choice very very strange, because his name strongly alludes to Saint Peter the Apostle.

Jupiter's full name was Shepherd Juu Peter. Peter is Peter directly. The "juu" is written in kanji like this: 十. Literally it means the number 10, but it's also the shape of the cross. Cross-shaped objects, including the Christian cross, is referred to in Japanese as "juumonji", or "the shape of the kanji juu".

The Bible narrated that Jesus left a personal message to Peter alone. The wording may vary depending of the translation, but one of the forms used says "shepherd My sheep".

Apostle Peter was, according to tradition, executed by the order of Nero.

I've seen some comments in the fandom suggesting that someone among the Gorousei might actually be a turncoat, and I'm not sure what the existing theories were, but I wonder if this means that Jupiter is the one.

Certainly there's a few things about him that makes it feel like he's the odd man out. His beast form is not a "traditional Asian folklore beast", but a Western one. Possibly a relatively modern invention, even, since I wasn't able to find anything like a "sandworm" in older mythology. Far as I can tell, this was based on or adopted from Dune's sandworms.

The other Gorousei's faces were very very similar to their real life inspirations. Venus being based on Gandhi and Mercury based on Gorbachev is so dead-obvious it's not even funny. Jupiter's supposed "reference" was Abraham Lincoln, but unlike the other 4, the resemblance is not intuitive. I'm even personally of the opinion he doesn't look like Lincoln at all. There is the entire possibility he's not actually based on a real person at all, and if so, that's singling him out as different again.

And now for the wild guess that is mostly based on conjecture. I previously wrote that by the zodiac alignment, Jupiter's "beast" form should have been a dragon. You can stretch it and suppose that "sandworm" maybe counts as a "dragon" somehow (because wyrm and worm sounds similar), but unlike the other 4 this is not really intuitive either.

I have posted a couple of times saying that I have this theory that maybe before the World Noble Tenryuubito established themselves, there were a race of "real dragons" who may have lived on Red Line alongside the Lunarians. Maybe Jupiter's strange naming and his zodiac alignment hinted that he is actually a real dragon, and he's been hiding his true form to avoid being hunted.

It's not yet really explained why Lunarians are hunted, but it's not entirely off base to make a conjecture that: 1) there could be other ancient races on the red Line, and 2) they might have been hunted just like the Lunarians were. In which case, hiding one's identity is necessary.

Not to mention the strange scar he has on his neck. Sure, Saturn has a scar too, but the scar being on his neck really makes me wonder. I half-jokingly theorised that maybe he was the dragon Ryuuma cut down all those years ago.

The wording says "cut down" 斬り捨て. While this tends to imply "kill", this does not actually directly mean kill. It's just slashing the opponent with a critical blow. This still leaves the slimmest chance of the opponent being able to survive the strike.

The direction of the diagonal scar also is consistent with a standard samurai slash. Or any right-handed sword slash, even, since Zoro's scar from Mihawk also goes the same direction. I'm not entirely serious with this theory, but it's not impossible.

#one piece #theory #conspiracy theory #gorousei #shepherd juu peter #shepherd ju peter

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waterloo-to-anywhere · 7 months

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WATERLOO TO ANYWHERE - 'IS THIS SONG ABOUT PETER?' SERIES

B.U.R.M.A.

youtube

Lyrics

Talking points:

"Be Upstairs Ready My Angel (B.U.R.M.A.)" is a postal acronym that WWII soldiers used to seal their correspondence to their sweethearts back home, so this is ostensibly what the song is about. I LOVE this so im not gonna try and pull it apart too much. HOWEVER that being said. songs can be about more than one thing, & there are things here that don't add up.

"Do you remember like I remember? / Lost pursuits of excellence / The glory of the crowd" <- I think it's pretty obvious from this verse that he's using war/conquest as a metaphor for chasing fame/stardom/etc, and there's basically only one person he could be asking to remember this with him tbh.

"So no wonder you frown / When you’re two world wars down" <- a streeeeetch but the Libertines were on their 2nd (?) breakup at this point. (And also. 2 albums.)

"So when the dark times come / Well I will sing you a good time song" <- reminds me of Grimaldi which people have theorised was an early carl-to-peter song. AND ALSO the Likely Lads alternate verse that carl would sing when performing the song without peter

"I’m pretending that it’s ending / But it kills me to act so strong" <- look, this COULD be about war but it reminds me much more of something carl said in 2015 about demonizing your exes/past-relationships as a self defence mechanism, "pretending" that the relationship is done forever if that makes sense

"I’ve been re reading letters / They were moving warm but bitter / And I cried right through them all" <- why would his sweetheart's letters be "bitter"?? this is clearly about a relationship that's ended, which doesn't fit the narrative line of asking them to "be upstairs ready" when he's back from war. ANYWAY we know who obsessively wrote him letters

"I’m hoping if you know where I am / Send your heart in a telegram" <- not saying CARL was thinking this, but IM thinking of that one interview where peter was practically pleading with the journalist to tell him carl's new address

"To gaze on your eyes makes all the difference to me" <- see: Basically Every Time They Share A Stage. Gonna run this peter quote too bc i think it's hilarious (also. in the year of our lord 2024???):

“After all these years, we can be doing an acoustic set and I’ll look at Carl and wonder what the hell he’s thinking. Is that a twinkle in his eye? Is that smile real? And then I think I’d prefer if he wasn’t looking and me, and I’ll look up and he’s not. Then I wonder, ‘Why isn’t he looking at me?’”

Verdict: Ostensibly NO ❌, but probably YES ✅ if you stop and look at it for more than 1 second

See also:

(some version of) Grimaldi:

but if you stay for a while, I'll try and think of something nice to play

What Became of the Likely Lads (Carl alternate lyrics):

some nights were all alone / then I will hold you [so long/for a song] and say you're not so bad

#wta: itsap?#hate to link a tiktok but it's really just the easiest way to point out carl's lyrics #& i spent time trying to decipher his mumbling to caption it so might as well

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frozen-snowflakesandsunflowers · 9 months

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New interview with Jennifer Lee and South China Morning Post

Yes, Jennifer Lee has given another interview in these recent months regarding Frozen 3 and 4. But let me tell you the important things said and brief down the not so important things.

In this interview, Jennifer goes on to discuss the World of Frozen in Hong Kong's Disneyland as well as the similarities between herself and her sister and Elsa and Anna who they were inspired by.

She also talks about how in the first movie Anna had everything to gain but in the second film she has everything to lose.

Regarding Elsa Jen says Elsa telling jokes is the funniest idea because she thinks of the poor thing (Elsa) having to face the crowds at Arendelle, an introvert’s nightmare. Things like that are in her head all the time.

Jennifer also says that after Frozen as fans were theorising how Elsa got her powers, they asked the questions to themselves and then they realised there's more story to tell. I'm personally really curious to know what idea triggered the idea for Frozen 3 and 4.

Elsa's sexuality or love interest is spoken of too and here's the section:

Social media, of course, is already on the case; an avalanche of opinion that Elsa should be gay is gaining force. “That’s dangerous storytelling,” Lee says. “I hear it occasionally in the studio: ‘I don’t want a character who …’ “But it’s not what you want, it’s ‘Who is this character? What does she need?’ It’s hard because you never know what the landscape is like on social media. You can only know what it’s like in that story room.”

So they're definitely not going to have Elsa be that sexuality. Most likely they'll keep her single. I mean at the end of the day it is also a kids movie so, you know. I mean if they really see Elsa having a partner it'll probably be a man but most likely they'll keep her as she is, being the safest option for them.

They're just gonna keep focusing on Elsa's journey with her powers and her family. It depends on the story they're telling.

But anyways, here's the link to it:

#disney frozen #frozen #frozen 3 #frozen 4 #elsa #elsa of arendelle #queen elsa

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phoenixcatch7 · 17 days

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Unrelated to the last post but MAN I wish I could make a list of characters view the canon fics that do it so well across fandoms but I really don't want to risk opening them up to deletion. It's only recently that these sorts of stories have been allowed to stay up, as only a few years ago they were considered 'too close to canon' and could - would - get forcibly taken down from just about every site.

I've lost too many amazing cvtc fics to staff deciding they were bending the rules too much to just post a list of links but... I wish they were more popular because there's some absolute gems.

Here, I'll talk about a few things they did:

Killed the protagonist and everyone had to rewatch his memories to bring him back. This was very controversial in universe and it made it work so well.

The protagonist was oblivious to the reading, not part of it. This meant everyone could theorise and debate between themselves and actually REALLY solved the pacing and dramatisation issues common to these fics.

The protagonist actually replaced a villain in canon; the reading was done pre canon and the villain believed he had gone insane was the one acting like that. It was mortifying but seeing his body make friends and get a happy ending when he believed he was beyond hope and vicious about it was heart wrenching.

The young protagonist accidentally wished to be understood and a villain took advantage of it. It switched between the reading and reactions and the protag desperately trying to defeat the villain and make plans to run away to prevent his revealed secret getting him killed by the government.

The very large cast was split into groups, but could contact each other via texting. This enabled each group to have wildly varying reactions and theories without having to constantly argue and fight. It made it more fast paced, and added tension as the villains plotted unsupervised.

A very small cast were on a road trip and found the protags audio diaries of his adventures in the glove compartment. This was a Percy Jackson one, and it built off the books' first person format brilliantly.

The protags purposely wrote down their adventures in books and sold them on the market to fix their reputation and earn some money doing so. It involved people frantically trying to verify the books and evolved into a pr nightmare.

The orphan protag somehow time travelled back to when his family was in hiding with his books. His parents and uncles read the books and got to know their currently infant kid in the process. (This was a Harry Potter one, and both the series and author got permanently banned from ffn years ago and it had gotten all the way to deathly hallows 😭. It had been in progress for over a decade and was immaculately written, I miss it so much. Author if you're out there ily.)

Midway through canon a group of the protags friends combined all of their memories in a crystal ball and shipped it to a conference where just about every important figure was in attendance. They did not tell each other of the memories they included. They did not tell the exiled protag what they'd done. Many unexpected revelations and betrayals happened during the viewing. It also made it so the only scenes that appeared were ones where other people were there, which was so creative and well done.

The protag was a powerful psychic brought in for questioning and made it everyone else's problem. It was hilarious.

For a video game canon a handful of trusted allies (and villains before they went insane) were secretly delivered the games by THE TIME TRAVELLING GHOST OF THE PROTAGONIST IN DISGUISE and played them. The main focus was the main villain finding out a) how to even play video games (there was an ongoing joke about ridiculous video game logic) and b) the reasons he went insane, in excruciating detail, c) his victim's perspective including his own history that future him died not knowing about. One of his friends got a spinoff video game about how all his other friends died tragically. Many people saw their own traumatic deaths on screen with about twenty pixels.

A group of next gen kids accidentally fell into their parent's memories (of a war they'd been lied to about).

The protag was the 'child' of an omnipotent being who got sick of them being a self fulfilling prophecy (which ended horribly in canon) and locked them all in a fourth dimensional cave. In the same fic, the protag was using illusions to maintain the appearance of on-screen canon while fleshing out canon scenes and implications. Really well written and the character relationships were 👌.

The characters parents got the books, and had to reverse engineer the events that led up to canon and also which character was whose unborn kid.

A villain made a wish to publicly expose the main group's 'lies', accidentally exposed them as telling the truth and themselves as the corrupt liars. Whoops!

Traumatised side character time travelled back to pre canon from an apocalypse (that wasn't in canon), demanding the canon be viewed to understand and prevent the events that led to the apocalypse.

Characters broke after the events of canon publish their stories as fantasy books to the unknowing civilian public. The fantasy people accidentally get hold of it and everything goes to pot. I swear this is a totally different fandom to the other one.

Dead villain ghost secretly witnesses a viewing, time travels back to adopt the protagonist and change history to his image.

Crossover where one character was revealed to be a character from the other fandom in hiding with a fake identity.

Protag lost his memories and everyone uses a magical device/ritual to restore it, becoming witnesses themselves in the process.

Characters were forced to watch amvs of each other and had to try and extrapolate the order of events and the symbolism of the song. No one walked away with the full picture, but they got the main problems sorted.

Someone made an uncannily accurate play and the characters had to track the creator down to sue them (and figure out how they'd done it) without revealing that the portrayal was accurate.

A travelling seer took severe umbrage to the body stealing protag and exposed him with receipts. He spent basically the entire fic curled in a ball of mortification.

The protag on trial for many crimes got the magic viewing device used on him in front of everyone in the courtroom.

One fic was pretty normal but every time someone on screen got hurt or sick, so did their 'irl' counterpart. It sped up the fic a lot as no one wanted to linger on the worst bits. Also the author used canon implications, that the protag was oblivious to, to low key scare everyone who noticed them.

Crossover where the adults of one fandom fought over adoption rights of the other fandom's teen protag.

The author only used cherry picked moments of canon to massively streamline the fic, which worked! All the high moments you want a fic to cover - epic fights, dramatic reveals, important conversations, silly moments, developing relationships. And absolutely NOTHING else, there was very little context. Made for some excellent moments of people frantically trying to explain themselves lol.

Character stared too long into the void, broke the fourth wall to watch their own media. They spent most of the fic about to cry.

Protags patron deities hosted a viewing to try and get him a gf/bf from their other avatars. He wasn't looking for romance but did eventually end up in a poly relationship.

Prophet reluctantly revealed his own version of events with the help of his sentient house. This was about a movie so it was pretty fitting thematically lmao.

There is so much potential!! There's so many ways to do it, branch out, give these sorts of fics a try! Don't get stuck in the rut of the same methods as everyone else, even in this genre there's all sorts you can do with it! Use some of these examples if you want! Get creative and don't forget you're writing a story!!

Of course, if you recognise or are reminded of these please don't link or name them*, but you're more than welcome to guess which fandom each belongs to XD!

*Except that Harry Potter one, please I need closure, it's been a decade-

#Long post #Characters watch the series #Characters view the canon #Cvtc #fic ideas #fic ref #fic writing #fanfiction #ao3 fanfic #ao3 writer #ao3 memes #fanfic #Characters read the books #ao3 #My fanfic white whale is that hp fic istg updates for that fic kept me entertained while I was bedridden for months and then I had #To find out from the authors friend that it had been taken down and her account forcibly deleted ToT. She said she was moving to ao3 but I #Think it got taken down there too before I even got an account to bookmark it :') she might still be there though idk #The name was something like book hater 34 idk. It was the only thing they wrote.#But yes! These are from a great variety of fandoms and are the ones that stuck out in my memory! I love this genre ^^

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inspector-montoya-fox · 1 year

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this post was initially gonna be like a lazy rant about how the Klaww Gang's team dynamics suck ass but the more i wrote the more i realised there's so much to discuss. so today let's discuss how the Klaww Gang's team dynamics suck ass but not on like surface-level y'know?

i'm not even sure if the Klaww Gang qualifies as an actual gang because they barely even acknowledge each other? their interactions are very scarce. off the top of my head we get Rajan's party which they all attend apart from Dimitri (Dimitri attending Rajan's party would be so bizarre btw) and Jean Bison's phone call with Arpeggio. these are things friends do so maybe they should be the Klaww Friends ? i mean they have the sinister-looking conference room but we never see them hold a meeting there. moreover, they all act out of pure self-interest. they each got a Clockwerk part and just went on to do their own thing like counterfeit, drug production, etc. i mean what's even the point of forming a gang if their goal was to just split Clockwerk parts and then disband? did they have any other operations in the works? Arpeggio was planning on double-crossing the rest of the members anyway and he needed them to actually have the parts for his plan to come to fruition but still seems a bit pointless.

interesting question: how exactly did the Cairo Museum heist go down? was it like a group activity or pulled off by a single member? or did Arpeggio have Neyla break in and take them? because i can't imagine the Klaww Gang members coming together like an Ocean's movie to steal a bunch of robot owl parts? in fact, i can't imagine any of them stealing in the traditional like robber kinda way. with the exception of Bison and maybe Arpeggio, they're all shown to have some sort of prestige in their own part of the world: Dimitri was an established artist and nightclub owner and as shown in the comics hanged out with elitist socialites; the Contessa was a high-ranking Interpol officer; Rajan threw a lavish ball with hundreds of guests. like i wouldn't be surprised if the Klaww Gang members had institutional power. maybe they just bribed the museum to give them the parts?

and then there's the fact that they were a complete failure. i can't help but compare them to the Fiendish Five, who, let's admit it, won. they "won" in the sense that they achieved their goal. it's not like anyone stopped them. sure, Sly whooped their ass years later but they still killed ConnEr and split the Thievius Raccoonus. they went on with their lives until Sly grew up. like the first game is very much a revenge story. the Klaww Gang? not so much. the game takes place right after the Cairo Museum heist so all their scheming and plans could only take place for like maybe a couple of months max. and let's not forget they were also tricked by Neyla. flops.

i'm not sure why but i also think the Fiendish Five can evade the criticisms highlighted above even though they were also a bunch of strangers? Clockwerk was a much more menacing boss than Arpeggio (if Arpeggio can even be considered a boss. more like a final member), like i don't think anyone from the Fiendish Five would dare question his plan or motivations. but also, i think there was an underlining sense of camaraderie when each of them warned us about the next one post-bossfight, like at least some respect. i can't say the same for the Klaww Gang, like i can't even imagine the Contessa, Jean Bison and Dimitri interacting with each other (and now i suddenly can't think of anything i need more in my life). Clockwerk feels like the Fiendish Five's employer and he brought them together to pull off something kinda sacred like continuing the cycle of raccoon murders. basically they got together and did a thing and that was it like they just casually went on with their lives after that. Clockwerk was immortal, for all we know and as i have previously theorised there could have been previous iterations of the Fiendish Five throughout history. just baddies recruited by Clockwerk to help him take down the Coopers.

so yea. the Klaww Gang very much sucked ass but !!! i think it was for the better. even if i compared them to the Fiendish Five, i feel like SP wanted to set the expectations by making it seem like we were going to receive something similar just to then have things go down very differently. the Klaww Gang is different because its members (were under the illusion that they) were autonomous. they weren't let in on the big picture (What is this with clocks, bro? Have you no vision?) and they all thought they were the gang's top dog. this made for something very different, especially when you throw Neyla and outlawed Carmelita into the mix. but their team dynamics still sucked ass.

#how have you guys been?#my mom asked me what ace attorney is while we were away on family vacation and i was like... sis are you serious #your offspring has been obsessed with this intellectual property for more than half a decade and just now you ASK ?#gagged me a bit for sure #she was like “is the main character that guy that wears an old burgundy suit?” i almost choked on the shrimp risotto istg #she wants to play it but she kinda like... made a yucky face when i told her it has supernatural elements too #sly cooper #the Klaww Friends

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reikurusu · 4 months

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So this may be a bit weird, but I would like to get some people's opinions on a personal matter.

I'm going to put it under a read more so people who aren't interested don't have to scroll through it, and because I think this might get a bit lenghty... (Edit after writing: it did)

So in no way are you obligated to read this, obviously, but if you do, feel free to give me your opinion because I could use some different insights.

Thanks!

Okay, so...

Like, 15 years ago, I met a couple of people online because we were all hardcore into a tv show. We had a group chat and I'm pretty sure everyone had individual chats as well.

In this group, there was this guy who I started talking to a lot and over the course of a few years, he pretty much became my best friend. He lived in a neighbouring country, was a year older than me and we really became very close. We talked every single day, all throughout the day, during evenings, constantly.

We could talk about everything, literally everything. We were both nerdy and into similar tv shows that we would watch together on screenshare could theorise for hours. He'd introduce me to video games that we would play with other friends and all.

We would send each other gifts for birthdays. He would read the stupid fanfics I wrote based on tv shows we both loved. I made him an entire, like, "subscription box" with a lot of things from all the fandoms he was into during lockdown because I just wanted to be busy and I really enjoy these kinds of things. I helped him financially when he got screwed over by a friend, he paid it back when he could. When his childhood dog died, I sent him a painted rock with his dog's name on it to put on the grave, something my family does for our pets when they die.

Just, actual best friend. Always there for each other.

Of course we had our ups and downs. We had arguments from time to time. I'm not the best communicator because I always think things are obvious and get annoyed when people don't understand things, which led to miscommuncation. And we're both stubborn so whenever we had an argument, we never wanted to be the one to take the first step to apologize until one of us finally caved.

In general, we always made up.

But... of course, boy-girl friendship, so many people would insinuate things. Friends of his, friends of mine, his mum, friends of my mum,... Which made things confusing because we were really close but were we more than friends? Or did one of us feel more than the other? Did both of us? We sometimes talked about it but were both like, "I don't think so?"

We never met in real life. We also never talked on the phone or in video call or voice chatted while gaming or something similar. We just never did. It just grew that way that we just chatted. We'd sent some photos a few years into the friendship (when we were like 15-16), maybe a few during the years after that, but never really sent pictures. We were both not into that because we're both quite insecure about ourselves. I mean, I know I am, but when I told him that, he said he felt that way as well. So yeah, never an issue tbh.

But the issues did start...

Skip to very late 2022, very early 2023 when he suddenly, after like 13 years, told me that he'd lied about his age. He turned out to be a year younger than me (so 2 years younger than he'd claimed to be). He told me he did it everywhere because way back when we met, he told people he was a bit older to be taken more seriously.

And I got mad.

Not because of the age difference, what do I care. But about the fact that he lied about it for so many years??

He'd told all his online friends, so it wasn't like he had lied just to me, but I felt betrayed because I thought I was a step ahead of his other friends and that he would've told me the truth before them.

Besides that, I also kind of have trust issues. So when someone you consider to be your best friend for over 10 years suddenly tells you they'd been lying to you all this time... Not fun.

And things escalated from there.

I got mad for being lied to all this time (for the act of being lied to. Like I said, the age difference really doesn't matter, but the fact that he lied about it for so long. Like, I'd wish him a happy xth birthday every year, so every year he made the conscious decision to not tell the truth. That's what bothered me).

I got mad about when I told him I told a mutual friend (one from the original group that I still talked to but he didn't), he got mad because he wanted to tell that group himself, which made me feel like I couldn't talk about it with anyone.

I got mad that he sent me reactions from other friends (people I didn't know) of how they reacted to him telling the truth about his age, which made me feel like I wasn't allowed to be annoyed by it because "look, no one else is making a problem out of this".

I told him all of this and eventually we got into a huge argument. And it got really ugly.

I told him that he couldn't see my side of things in the whole thing and that he made me feel like crap because I felt like I was the only one making a problem out of it. And because he was mad I told someone he "knew" (but didn't talk to anymore) about the lie, I told him I felt like I had to bottle up how I felt about it.

He eventually snapped at me that I was a very selfish person. That it always had to be the things I enjoyed, never the things he liked. Something he had never brought up before. Something I didn't understand because I truly felt like we did a lot of things he enjoyed as well, like certain tv shows, games... (not saying I'm not at fault here, because in hindsight he was kind of right about it, I just never realised it because he never brought it up).

He sent all this in a long message, in which he told me he didn't want to be friends anymore. He asked me if there was anything I wanted back (of the gifts I'd sent him over the years) and told me that there was nothing that he'd sent that he wanted back.

I didn't reply to the message anymore.

I blocked and deleted him everywhere. Discord, his phone number, e-mail. Blocked and deleted him on Steam. Really any place or platform I could think of, I blocked him.

I was done.

He didn't want to be friends anymore. He told me I was a selfish person after everything I'd done for him when his other friends wouldn't. I was so pissed. So I didn't want anything to do with him anymore. And for me it's easier to completely block and delete a person; that way I can't contact them myself anymore. Just, cold turkey.

Which of course wasn't easy. You can't just throw away all those years and just move on from it. But having deleted him did make it easier because I had no way of reaching out.

I talked about it with the one friend I told about the age difference and she would often compare him to a narcissistic ex of hers. How she always had a bad feeling about him. Which is helpful when you're mad at someone. It sort of helped me villainise him.

So I tried to move on. Some days it was easier than others. Other days were really annoying because he has a name that you see fcking everywhere. So everytime I saw his name somewhere, I got reminded to all of it and so on and so forth.

But yeah, I didn't reach out. Neither did he (because he literally couldn't reach me). And I slowly accepted the fact that we weren't friends anymore and each went our own way.

Skip to end of August 2023, like 9 months later.

I opened Whatsapp to message a friend and saw that I had a message from an unknown number. I immediately saw that it was a number from the neighbouring country and just knew that it was him.

He asked if we could talk. I took a while to reply because I didn't know what to say. Because part of me was done with it all and had started to be used to not having him in my life, but part of me was also curious what he had to say. So after a few hours I replied telling him, sure, let's talk.

So he sent a long message apologizing for what he'd said and that he should've handled things differently and that he understands if I didn't want to talk to him anymore, but that he just wanted me to know all of it because he didn't want me to believe the things he'd said (kind of too late for that because now every time I talk about my stuff to friends, I have this voice in my head that goes "see, it has to be about you again, just like he said").

I told him this and we sent a couple of long messages explaining our points of views and how we felt about what happened and how we both could've handled things differently (I know that he's not the only one to blame. I have trust issues, am a chronic overthinker and am bad at communicating, hence why we often had miscommunication and arguments).

Either way, we eventually started talking again. Talked about what had happened in the time we didn't talk. I talked about my new job, he told me about a bunch of things he'd been up to (which included starting to go out to clubs, drinking, use several dr*gs to calm his stressed mind, which I kind of understand but am really not a fan of... but sure). After we started talking, he also suffered a brain injury from a fall for which he had to stay in the hospital for a while and which obviously influenced his life in several ways.

We fell back into old habits. Talking, watching shows together, gaming and it was nice. We did have little arguments from time to time, but I feel like we both tried a lot harder to not have it escalate like before.

But then I'd started having a hard time at work and other things and just having a bit of a mental slump, which I wanted to talk/rant about. He wanted to hear me out, but he took a while to reply because of stuff at work. And because of what he said before, about it always being about me, which got stuck in my head, I didn't want to immediately talk about my stuff, but his stuff instead. He did ask multiple times about what had happened, but I didn't want to reply to it before he'd explained what was going on with his work because I was scared of being selfish again.

Eventually, I didn't end up telling him about my stuff, not because I didn't want to, but because of what I said before about being scared that I'd come across as selfish again. Like I said, he did ask about it on multiple occasions, so it's really on me here. But by the time he had explained what had happened at work and all, I wasn't in my slump anymore. And when he asked why I didn't want to talk about it anymore, we got into another argument.

I explained him how what he'd said in the past, about the selfish thing, really messed with me, which made me hold back from talking about my stuff. He told me he asked many times to tell him what had happened, which is completely true, this one is really on me and I can't blame him for anything here. But things escalated again...

I called him out about how, when we first started talking again and were sending long messages, I'd sent him a long message with a bunch of stuff that I honestly not remember anymore. But it was a very open and personal message about insecurities and owning up to mistakes I'd made towards him in the past and such. He had told me, after reading the message, that he'd need to reread it to reply to it properly. That was in October.

To this day, I still haven't received a reply to that message (and I know I never will).

So I called him out on that. I told him that he was the one who reached out initially, that I was doing relatively well without him and that it sucks that he came back only for him to not respond to my heartfelt messages (I'd been bottling the annoyance about the message up for a while). He told me that he had the intention to reply, but kept forgetting, even though I had reminded him a few times. I told him that if you care about someone, if you call them one of the most important people in your life, you don't just forget those kinds of things. Because those things should be important to you, and you don't forget important things.

I also told him that it annoyed me that when I had asked him to tell me more about some things he'd mentioned he'd done while we weren't talking (traveled to the US, met up with a group of online friends,...) he never did. This bothered me because he had accused me of always making it about me, but then when I constantly made an effort to ask about his stuff, and was genuinely interested in it, he didn't reply to it.

To this he replied that those kinds of things (the travel and all) weren't big things to him. That we talked about deeper things (true) so to him, these "normal" things meant less than our deeper conversations.

Which is very nice of him to say, but it also bothered me because you can't tell me I'm not interested in your stuff, but then when I am and am asking questions about it, not reply to it.

(I feel like I'm getting angry again, sorry)

Long story short, we didn't talk again for a few weeks.

After a while, I messaged him again. We again exchanged some long messages. And again, after I sent him a long text explaining how I felt about certain things, he told me he'd reread my message so he could reply properly. He told me a few times that he was working on his reply, to which I joked that it didn't have to be an essay.

This was a few months ago. To this day, again, I haven't received a message to my text.

So I was annoyed with that because it sucks to sent a very open and personal message and not receive a reply to it, multiple times.

I'd also told him, when I first messaged him again after that last argument, that I'd understand if he wanted to call it quits but that in that case I'd have a question for him. In his defence, he did ask about what question it was.

So I asked him what was actually going on between us. For so many years, multiple people had shipped us, we'd both make innuendo jokes and just the fact that we were so close, I told him it was confusing and wanted to hear his thoughts on it.

Instead of replying to it, he asked me how I felt about it, so I told him that it was just confusing because it was as if others saw things that we maybe didn't because we'd been so close for so long. To this he just replied, yeah, I agree, it's confusing, without really adding his take on it. But I didn't pry any further (maybe because I got tired of constantly getting half replies or no replies at all).

We still chatted a bit after that, but our last conversation had a very strange vibe. We were talking about the person who'd accidentally caused his brain injury (a friend of his) and I was kinda pissed at that person and told him I hoped they'd at least offered to help pay for medical bills and such, since they did cause the accident, but he didn't want to hear anything about that because it was an accident and his friend didn't mean to (fair, sure, but it still irks me a bit).

So it was a very loaded conversation, as if we were both trying to not cause an argument.

Eventually, I just told him ok in regards to the situation, to which he sent me a gif.

And that was three months ago.

We haven't talked since. And because of the weird vibe and in some sort of self-preservation, I blocked his number again. We could still message using other ways, but none of us did.

I think the reason I didn't is because of all the replies I didn't get. I don't know why he hasn't messaged me, but I assume he has his reasons.

Now, if you made it all the way here, holy shit?? Thanks for reading all of this and I hope you enjoyed the drama of it lol

But if you made it all the way here, I would really like your opinion on this. His birthday is coming up in a few days and... Do I reach out? Do I reach out before his birthday or on his birthday? Or are you shouting at me right now to not reach out again?

I genuinely don't know.

Part of me feels like it'd be best to just let it all go and move on, but another part of me doesn't want to give up on my best friend of 15 years.

So... Any advice? I'm open for anything...

Thanks again for reading all of this if you made it here! You're the best! <3

- Charlotte

#Shut up Char #Tbd #(probably)

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