#i would also say that people like the trope smart girl and stupid boy nowadays

[lucyskywalker]

People like to point out that Luke never finished his Jedi training as a way to demean him and discredit his Jedi Master status while not mentioning the fact that the Jedi Order no longer exists and everyone was killed in a genocide. The few surviving Jedi either died, turned to the dark side, or chose to survive without thinking of resurrecting the Order. Luke is the ONLY one we see in canon who is actively working on rebuilding the Jedi culture. In the comics and novels, he's always looking for any trace of Jedi knowledge he can learn more from (Palpatine made sure to destroy the temples and data so they would have been difficult to find) and he's always diligent and curious about his studies and a lot of things that aren't just about the Jedi. What he's doing isn't easy and it speaks a lot to his character that he does manage to build a dead culture from scratch.

Just because Luke grew up as a farmboy in the middle of nowhere Tatooine does Not Mean He's Dumb. He survived that lifestyle by being hardworking and skilled in a lot of survival situations (living in a desert where slavers could kidnap you at any time is no joke and Luke kept safe for 19 years). Meanwhile Leia never had to work for anything in her life as a princess. She had private tutors and more money than all the moisture farmers in Tatooine combined. She was brought up privileged without knowing what it meant to go hungry or toil her hours away doing chores. People may like to claim that she's so much smarter than Luke but if he was ever given the same opportunities growing up then people wouldn't think to say that he's dumb. This feels like a case of people being prejudiced against Luke growing up poorer compared to his sister and I don't like it 😣

This! Leia is an incredible character that doesn't need to dumb down another one to make her shine. She is outstanding, incredibly smart and assertive. So is Luke. And they work perfectly together.

Sorry anon, for the delay.

[sionnables]

So… 

Zoey’s Extraordinary Playlist, you guys.  

Let me explain something first: the Broadway musical First Date is my SHOW.  I mean, it’s NOT-- I had no part in the creation or performance of it, obviously.  But it’s “mine” in the way that people tend to take possession of things they like, you know? 

“That’s my song!” 

“That’s my precious fictional baby!”

Or, I guess, like that weird thing sports fans do when they insert themselves into their favorite team, like, “we need to box out the endzone and get some points on the board” or whatever.

First Date is mine not only because I loved it, but because it felt like the creators reached into my heart, plucked out all my experiences and emotions, and put them up on stage.  I mean, it went to TATTOO LEVELS, so you know it’s both serious and a little ridiculous. 

 Six years later, I still fucking love that show. 

(The intensity has gone down a bit, but that’s probably the best for everyone.)

So when I happened to find out that the book writer of First Date was the creator/writer of Zoey’s Extraordinary Playlist AND it was a musical, I obviously wanted to check it out.  It was delayed slightly by a deep-dive into a Schitt’s Creek hyper-fixation (David and Patrick can have my entire heart and, like, overall existence), but I finally started watching a few days ago.

And it is delightfully First-Date-y.

It’s also a really good “I can’t handle anything too sad or heavy right now due to reality” option.  There’s some romantic angst and family tragedy thrown in, but it’s not like This Is Us: The Musical or anything (thank christ-- seriously, how does anyone watch that show? It’s Ugly Cry Central over there).

I’m not going to do the plot summary thing because Google exists.  But here’s the thing: yes, there are multiple tropes here that have been done to death (*cough*lovetriangle*cough*), but you know what? The show is cute, the cast is really talented, and the writing’s pretty effing funny. I don’t need groundbreaking television to be entertained. And I’m a sucker for “nice comedy” nowadays, you know? Like, I could never get into Glee because the characters were HORRIBLE to each other. I can’t do a show full of selfish, mean people, it just doesn’t work for me.  Give me a well-written ensemble comedy where everyone messes up but they’re ultimately trying their best and growing, and I’m pretty much in.

That all being said, here’s what I need to discuss (spoilers ahead, obviously):

1) Zoey’s definitely got that whole Zooey-Deschanel-adorkable thing going on, but you have to appreciate a show that is like, “STEM Women FTW!” because we need that.  Also, maybe it’s Fellow Millennial Empathy, but I appreciate that she has no idea what she’s doing and is still trying so hard to be a functioning and successful adult, WHILE dealing with family tragedy, AND sudden musical powers, AND being a woman in charge of a department full of men (girl, been there done that), AND confusing mushy feelings. It helps that Jane Levy is so talented that I was convinced she was British (she is not).

2) Mo. Is. Everything.  More representation of gender-fluidity is wonderful to see, for one thing. But he’s also the smartest character on the show, as well as the most well-balanced and emotionally mature.  And his VOICE, okay? I love that it seems like Mo is going to sort of be Zoey’s guide through all of this, and I’m looking forward to seeing their friendship grow.

3) Simon is a gorgeous, gorgeous man.  If he was at ALL single, I’d be like, “Zoey, hit that IMMEDIATELY”. But I don’t love the direction that their relationship is going (HE IS ENGAGED, FFS) OR the whole Jessica vs. Zoey thing they’re pulling.  I’m willing to give the first part a pass because both of them are grieving and emotional instability can definitely equal bad decisions (we may not like it, but you can’t say it’s unrealistic). But that second part? Simon is way more to blame than Zoey. No more girls hating on girls, okay? Like, I don’t want Jessica and Zoey to necessarily become besties (that whole “it’s always about your dad” comment was way too awful for me to like her THAT much), but you know what I mean. The longer this goes on, the less I like Simon.  And it’s such a BUMMER, because I feel like Zoey and Simon could really use each other, platonically. 

4) Speaking of not liking people, Zoey’s brother is a dick. Not ONLY because of the shit he pulled with going out to bars instead of being with his PREGNANT WIFE/STRUGGLING MOTHER, but that whole thing about him having to “convince” his wife to have kids when she didn’t want them? YUCK. He’s the one character I do not like at ALL and I hope that Emily leaves him and ends up an awesome single mom with a hot boyfriend. I’m glad Zoey told her what was up. GOOD. WHAT A JERK.

5) Zoey’s mom is amazing and deserves the world. That is all.

6) Full disclosure: I am 100% Team Max. But within that 100%, I’m 50% Zoey Is Clearly Not Ready To Date Him Or Even Process Her Feelings About Him Right Now So He Needs To Just Be Her Friend and 50% Zoey Is Clearly Terrified Of Feelings And Max Might Need To Push Her a Little To Get Her To Get Past That.  This is coming from a place of experience, because I was once terrified of feelings and commitment and basically my husband is only my husband because he chose to ignore the many, many times I tried to break up with him and was very persistent with me. Please note that this DOES NOT MEAN that Max needs to be all pissy about “friendzoning” and/or pushing TOO hard, TOO quickly. Which he’s sort of toe-ing the line with, at the moment.  I don’t think that Zoey ever really gave him the impression that she was interested in him romantically before the whole “flash mob” debacle (I cringed when Mo said that touching his shoulder and having him come over to watch a movie was leading him on, because please don’t do that, writers, Mo is too smart and progressive for that BS), and the flash mob itself was a really weird, out-of-character move (at least thus far) for him.  Look, I get the whole “omg, Max can hear her/no wait, there’s real singing” thing was an unexpected twist, but I’m not a fan of twists over characterization. Max knows Zoey, and I think he’d know that declaring feelings in public while making her the center of attention would not be her thing (but I find public proposals super cringe-y, so maybe that’s just me).  I’m sort of not happy with that. What I DO think is appropriate is him asking for some time/space after she asks to just be his friend-- I count that as being respectful of her decision and needing some breathing room to disconnect his romantic feelings towards her. I also don’t blame him for being upset that she knew his feelings way beforehand and didn’t say anything, or for being upset after seeing her sing to Simon. The singing thing is not Zoey’s fault at ALL, but that is some serious emotional whiplash! Nevertheless, I hope these two are endgame and don’t hurt each other too much in the process. That boy will do ANYTHING for her, and I kind of love him for it. Please don’t turn him into a “Nice Guy”! Also, can we all agree that he outsang EVERY SINGLE ONE of the Jonas Brothers with “Sucker”? Goddamn!

7) Tobin is so stupid, but WOW is that character a brilliant representation of every single, straight, young, insecure, emotion-denying, Reddit-using, product of toxic masculinity gamer boy that you’ve ever met in your life. Holy SHIT. They’re nailing it with him. He is 100% the guy that yells a “make me a sandwich” joke in front of his friends and then goes home and cries about not having a girlfriend. I have met 10,000 versions of Tobin in my life and he CRACKS ME UP. Bless him.

8) Leif is Draco Malfoy and I hope that Joan is using him for sex and then ditches him in a humiliating fashion. IF THEY MAKE HER FALL FOR HIM I SWEAR TO GOD. She’s too smart for that. I want Joan and Mo to take over the world together.

9) I don’t want to talk about Zoey’s dad. HE’S FINE. EVERYTHING’S FINE. HE’S TOTALLY GOING TO GET BETTER. THIS IS A HAPPY SHOW. 

Okay, I think I got all of my thoughts and feelings out. Until next week, at least.

[comicteaparty]

May 16th-May 22nd, 2020 Creator Babble Archive

The archive for the Creator Babble chat that occurred from May 16th, 2020 to May 22nd, 2020.  The chat focused on the following question:

What are you trying to show or tell with your story that you find to be underrepresented?

Eightfish (Puppeteer)

-Mind control/mind reading where both people are okay with it. I like themes of trust -"Superpowers" without secret identities. Because researchers aren't always evil goddamnit! -Portraying people who hurt others not as card-carrying megalomaniac villains but as pitiful and broken people. I haven't gotten to this part of my story yet but I hope I can do it well when I do. -Queer characters but they never say that they are or talk about it in any way. Yes I know I'm probably the only one who wants this

Also, maybe the idea that you don't need to "do anything" with your life for it to be worthwhile? But I'm not sure that I believe this myself

Deo101 [Millennium]

Mostly I'm trying to write about love, and I hardly think that's underrepresented! But, I'm also trying to show a bit of my own personal disabled experience, and I find that the kinds of things I've experienced are hardly represented at all. so, I think I'm trying to show a sort of hope and positivity for things that I think are usually pitied and viewed negatively, which I wish were done more.

chalcara [Nyx+Nyssa]

I just wanted a good ol' classic Eddings-style fantasy romp, but with characters that would usually be cast in the "evil" role, without going the "misunderstood" route.

Plus I wanted to write about shitty family (born, found and married) and that you do NOT have to forgive them in the slightest to move on and better your life.

Cronaj (Whispers of the Past)

Hmm... One of the main things I want to express with Whispers of the Past is that after past traumas, you may not be the same, but eventually, you can be okay again—even if your "okay" of now, is very different than your "okay" of the past. Normalcy isn't a constant. It shifts with time and becomes something new. A new stasis. A new peace. A new normal. I don't know if I've ever seen another story show this in this way. Another underrepresented theme in WotP is that of the hero choosing mundanity over the amazing. When the quest is over, and all is said and done, and the big baddie has been vanquished, the hero doesn't become ruler, or claim bountiful riches, or sail across the sea to find new lands. No, the hero returns to a world that is familiar and unremarkable. The hero would rather just be an average person.

shadowhood (SunnyxRain)

-Fanfiction. I’m very surprised there hasn’t been a webcomic talking about what it’s like to create fanfiction! But overall the culture involved around it and being a creator. -The relationship and hardships of having a stepparent/being one. Particularly stepdad/stepdaughter relationships -Anger as a reaction to trauma. I see a lot of trauma portrayed as mostly sad, but I want a story where the heroes feel anger, where it’s seen as both a motivator and a detriment -The hardships of dating as someone who’s both touch aversive and on the grey spectrum. Not everyone would be as wonderful or understanding, but it’s important to be around people who are and will stand by you.(edited)

eliushi [a winged tale]

This is why I gravitate towards all these stories made by independent creators I think. So many personal and poignant messages. I’m with you there on the queer characters Eightfish. I want a society where it’s fine to be what you wish and respected to be who you want to be. I think having more positive ways of showing how we can reach that sort of openness can be helpful. In AWT I further explore: - characters in STEM fields and approaches to research design - informed consent and what that means - how to live even when things are falling apart around you, when things are falling apart within you - navigating through crushes, confessions and friendships!

Wow the beginning sounds like the objectives at a science lecture and you won’t be wrong thinking so

Joichi [Hybrid Dolls]

For my Hybrid Dolls comic, there are several things I want to explore: - Psychological trauma and the effects or damage it can give, without proper treatment. -Writing queer characters without them needing a self discovery episode. But I know some identities are better to be upfront? But in the story, they simply live normal or exciting lives - Narcissism in a relative that one doesn't have to forgive. Being treated as invisible or judged by age, birthright. - Other Concepts of love explored. Attraction that isn't conventional romance. - Friendship bonds between girls, and my own take on an eccentric quirky girl lead. - Being unapologetically feminine, girls who doesn't need to feel like being 'one of the guys' I'm aiming for more character variety in historical fiction, instead of yet another story of a girl 'defying gender norms' by raised as a boy/disguises trope in other similar comics. So the women in my story, use their wits and charm.(edited)

DanitheCarutor

I complain about this all the time, so I'm just going to do a quick overview since I'm sure everyone is sick of it. - Abusers can be smart, popular, generous, charismatic and subtle. I'm kind of sick of them always being portrayed as really obvious, and sometimes really stupid, while there are people like that it's not very practical for them all to be like that. - General mental health stuff. More open representation of it, that it may be something you'll live with for the rest of your life and how that's okay. - Trauma, how it can change you, make you lose sight of the person you were and make you lose interest in things you used to enjoy. (this is coupled with mental health) - Non-romantic relationships with a queer cast. While this is showing up more in fantastical indie works, not very common in slice-of-life type of comics. I can only imagine this is because readers would find it boring or too mundane (can't tell you all how many people tell me my comic is boring. Lol), but being a person totally sick of romance in everything I wanted to do something focusing on family, friendship and the relationships we have with ourselves. - You don't always heal completely. I've already mentioned this, but I want to put a focus on how someone who's been through a lot of shit doesn't alway heal completely, and that's okay. I see in a lot of media where people just overcome their issues, and they live happily ever after with everything all perfect, I want something along the lines of "we still got a long way to go, but we're doing better and we're happier than before". - Not having labels for everything. This sounds like hipster trash, but I don't see the point in putting labels for every character. Like, I put labels for them, mostly during Pride, but it feels pointless in the comic. Apollo is happy to say he's a gay man, but with Julian they're not interested in categorising themselves, all they want is to be comfortable and I don't see nothing wrong with that.(edited)

LadyLazuli (Phantomarine)

For me, it’s the importance of communication and empathy, and the dangers of its absence. And it’s something I’ve had to think about a lot recently, being more active on social media Everyone’s got their reasons/methods for cutting people off, but I’ve never been a huge fan of a point-blank communication cut unless it’s absolutely warranted. And I’m not a fan of instant demonization when someone messes up or does something I don’t agree with. People are people. We’re all different and we all mess up and we all can change. Keeping lines of communication open is essential for allowing that change, or else we all get locked into little echo chambers where anyone outside is automatically The Worst.™ In a world where everything has gone to hell - and may go further yet - how can things heal when no one is even listening to each other? Where the other side is automatically at fault no matter what? It’s something I grew up struggling to understand (maybe because I grew up outside Washington DC, lol), and really affects me to this day. And if you do end up protecting yourself with silence, how can you still allow other perspectives to be gleaned? I don’t quite have the perfect formula for it. But unless someone is genuinely trying to cause harm, I try to at least attempt to understand where they might coming from - whether I accept it or not. Otherwise it’s so easy to see a lot of people as monsters. It’s a complicated topic for sure, especially nowadays. But yeah. Something like that

Miranda

Hmm that’s an excellent question. Well, a big thing is the varying effects of trauma and ways to handle it. Mainly how burying the past and ignoring traumatic events can affect someone. Also that villains can be people we relate to that just take an extreme way of reaching a goal that most people can understand And how shared experiences can bring people closer (not a unique one) I also want to portray queer characters that are not solely defined by their queerness and don’t have to announce it to everyone.

Tuyetnhi (Only In Your Dreams!)

- Having some talks about the implications of asking what you wish for and the potential consequences that comes with it. - Having more unappologic Vietnamese things happening in the comic. Giving representation to some common things that most Vietnamese Americans (or Asian Americans) can face in terms of relationships, roles, etc. Also since er i'm also directly affected by this, how does the Mixed-Asian Identity plays about it too.(edited)

hmmm I think another thing is that I want to bring up that men who express themselves in a more feminine form is valid and there's no shame that comes with it (positive masculinity hell yaaaa). Also same about expressing characters who are also queer but aren't defined about it either. it's just what they are along with their other interests and goals.(edited)

sierrabravo (Hans Vogel is Dead)

wow, this is a great question! I'm trying to be better about interacting here so I'll give it a shot. My comic is a historical fantasy set somewhat in Interwar Europe/WWII Europe and partially in a fantasy world based on the Brothers Grimm fairy tales. -War stories/histories that aren't about the actual experience of combat: most memoirs and diaries of soldiers I read doing research are about the day-to-day activities, meals, sleeping habits, and random thoughts instead of fight descriptions. It really bothers me when people zero in on in-depth battle maps and obsess over what kind of rifle was used by whom when, when I think it's much more interesting and important to look at the mindset of who was fighting, why they were fighting, and what emotional effect it had on everyone involved (including civilians!) -Asexuality, especially asexuality in history, bc it tends to "disappear" in the historical record as people who may have been ace before that label was widely used tend to not self-identify as it. I'm ace, people in the past were ace, it's a history I'd like to talk about more! -gryphons, they're cool monsters and I think they should be used much more than they are haha

eliushi [a winged tale]

I agree sierrabravo. I find it’s the personal, down to earth, close perspective accounts in historical records that resonate the most with me. Gryphons are also awesome!

snuffysam (Super Galaxy Knights)

I feel like there's two separate answers for Super Galaxy Knights Deluxe R (http://sgkdr.webcomic.ws/comics/) The first is what SGKDR represents compared to other webcomics. To me, a major thing I wanted to show with Super Galaxy Knights was a new style of creating webcomics. Animation is underrepresented as a storytelling style, sure, but the main thing I thought was underrepresented in the webcomic space was a "seasonal" method of storytelling. Like, most webcomics I see are either "each page is its own thing" or "it's one big long story, with chapters mostly there to split up different scenes/locations". I very rarely see webcomics build to a major climax in the story, then a resolution, then introduce a brand new conflict. The second is what SGKDR represents compared to other action series (specifically shonen manga/anime, as that's what SGKDR riffs off of the most). I can only think of one shonen story with a female lead, I can't think of any with an explicitly LGBTQ+ protagonist (i only know of one implied one), romance is usually handled very poorly (characters usually get paired with the protagonist due to being female and in the same room, with very little actual relationship building), there aren't many varieties of character motivations besides "pursuit of power/status" of some kind, power scaling usually gets way out of whack, and I... I dunno, I love those kinds of stories, but it just gets tiring after a while. So, I wrote my own that had all the things I wanted in it.

Cronaj (Whispers of the Past)

@sierrabravo (Hans Vogel is Dead) I totally agree with the difficulty and importance of talking about ace representation in a historical setting! It's extremely difficult to talk about when asexuality was so unknown at the time. I'm eager to see how you handle it!

eliushi [a winged tale]

@snuffysam (Super Galaxy Knights) can you speak about

I very rarely see webcomics build to a major climax in the story, then a resolution, then introduce a brand new conflict.

I find slice of life/ some really long mangas with continuous streams of antagonists/web novel like formats use this too but unsure if that’s what you were referring to?

I am also looking forward to more ace representation in the webcomic world

snuffysam (Super Galaxy Knights)

Yeah that format is the sort of thing I was talking about. It's out there, but I don't see it very often.

eliushi [a winged tale]

Ah gotcha! Thanks! I recall some slice of life high school ones I’ve read years ago that have that sort of narrative structure (which feels like the story can continue forever).

Erin Ptah (BICP | Leif & Thorn)

There's a recurring trope in SF/F where the robot/AI/golem learns that it wants to have free will and make its own decisions. Or there's a biological species that are assumed to be "natural servants", and inevitably you get to the reveal that they're not actually any different from humans in terms of wanting self-determination and independence. If you think of this as a metaphor for relationships between different groups of humans, then yeah, that's the obvious outcome! But one of the great things about SFF is that you can write things that aren't just "direct metaphors for real-world issues, with spaceships and dragons thrown in for flavor." So in But I'm A Cat Person, I wanted to write something about, what if there's a group of beings who really aren't going to develop free will or self-determination? What's the reasonable, ethical way to deal with that? ...also: there's a ton of nonbinary characters in webcomics these days, but at least I can say BICP did it before it was cool.(edited)

Erin Ptah (BICP | Leif & Thorn)

Leif & Thorn, meanwhile, has a regular old "character forced into servitude, who definitely has independent thoughts and desires that are being controlled" situation. And there's no "Master has given Dobby a sock" loophole they can exploit for a quick fix, so they have to keep up a long-term process of double-talk and rule-bending, to communicate Leif's actual feelings without getting him in trouble. The "realistic language barriers with no convenient universal-translator to get around them" situation -- which, in this comic, is one of the biggest Underrepresented Things I wanted to explore -- makes it that much harder...

Capitania do Azar

I gotta commend you on that, @Erin Ptah (BICP | Leif & Thorn) because you're out there serving my bilingual needs

kayotics

Ingress Adventuring Company is all about the hero after they've finished saving the world, which I think is pretty underrepresented. It's not a quiet contemplative story, since there's still a lot of fun questing stuff going on, but I'm trying to make it clear that this all takes place after the main character has done his big saving the world quest and is still trying to figure out his place after supposedly settling down.

Eightfish (Puppeteer)

I love that Kay

Toivo feels like he has so much history behind him

sssfrs (JOE IS DEAD)

I'm trying to represent orthodox/religious jews because I almost never see my community represented in media. There are orthodox Jewish characters that will be appearing in Joe is dead. In future comics I want to try to plan the story more around including more religious Jewish characters because there still aren't that many in my current project

Also mental illnesses, like trauma and intellectual disability I want to represent my own experiences with it

There isn't as much of a distinct lack of that in media but it's good to have in stories(edited)

Also androgynous lesbians

Nutty (Court of Roses)

With Court of Roses, I'm trying to tell a fantasy story that's for older audiences but proving that Mature Fantasy doesn't have to be ultra gritty. People have each other to depend on, the world isn't bleak, and not every noble is greedy, peasant is starving, etc. I know a lot of fantasy likes to take from realistic Medieval Europe, but the freeing part about making my own world is that it doesn't HAVE to be like that. Their religion is different, more accepting, and again, people are more focused on looking out for each other and having a good time.

Mature themes are still present, such as murder, banditry/pillaging, alcohol, traumatic experiences, etc. but my goal isn't to present them in a darker fashion.(edited)

keii’ii (Heart of Keol)

I wanted to make something influenced by my culture (Korean) without heavily drawing from the mythology. Mythology is just one facet of a culture, yet a lot of people who haven't read it expect HoK to be all about Korean mythology just because it wears a metaphorical hanbok. No. It reflects the traditional aesthetics, but more importantly, the cultural values and the unspoken rules of the society, regardless of whether I agree with them or not. Related to that is body language. I don't want my non-American characters using American body language, such as shrugging, or American ways of using eye contact, etc. I want to show them using (mostly) Korean gestures, sitting, standing and walking like Koreans. I always feel like there's a huge missed opportunity when friggin' aliens use American body language in sci-fi! I understand why people do that -- it makes the work more clear/accessible to English-speaking audience. But in HoK I'm taking the other path. It's a challenge for sure, but I would not have it any other way.

On a more thematic level, I really wanted to explore deeply hurtful experiences that happen in genuinely caring relationships. It's not about good guys vs bad guys, it's not about a nice person being hurt by someone who just doesn't care. Those stories certainly are valid, just not what I wanted to do with HoK. This story is about people who love each other, but don't always know how to communicate their love or needs.

Joichi [Hybrid Dolls]

I am also looking forward to more ace representation in the webcomic world

@eliushi [a winged tale] I agree, the ace rep is a challenge I would like to take on, I'm also curious how it will work in historical times? Even tho I'm ace,I'm still learning new innovative things(edited)

eliushi [a winged tale]

It’ll be important to dig deeper and research into what things were like if you want to capture the authenticity of the period you’re writing in! I’m sure there are personal accounts or documentation of these lived experiences.

Capitania do Azar

I see all these beautiful answers and I almost struggle to find something other than those to say I guess for O Sarilho https://www.sarilho.net/en/ I wanted to write a weird love letter to where I live and how I see my country (tho I'm glad I got other places I love in it too). To my knowledge, we don't get much like that, or at least that's not from a city perspective which is not what I'm trying to go for, at all. There's a lot of tiny cultural things that I want to touch that may be invisible for people who are not from here, but I'm glad that I'm including them for those three readers in the back. Linked to this, in a way, is the fact that I get really tired of those white/gray Sci-fi stories where everything is super clean and super white and technology is absolutely overwhelming and organised. I want Sci-fis in the woods too. And finally, there's something about the way violence is portrayed a lot of times that almost makes you feel like human life just is that cheap. I really don't want to go that road, I'm doing my best to tell a story about war in which death still leaves a toll and violence affects everyone involved

TL;DR I WANTED TO PAINT MY HOUSE

Cronaj (Whispers of the Past)

And finally, there's something about the way violence is portrayed a lot of times that almost makes you feel like human life just is that cheap. I really don't want to go that road, I'm doing my best to tell a story about war in which death still leaves a toll and violence affects everyone involved

@Capitania do Azar This is so beautiful (and tragic). This is something I also hope to express in my work. Super underrepresented message surprisingly.

eliushi [a winged tale]

I enjoy exploring sci-fi beyond the current conventions and absolutely love your setting shizamura!(edited)

Capitania do Azar

Thank u I really love Sci-fi but I don't appreciate that it has become associated with a very specific aesthetic because tbh I find it very limiting

DanitheCarutor

@Capitania do Azar That is actually really refreshing! Horror and action are so packed with glamorized death and violence, you can get really desensitized. The only stories I've ever seen that take those things seriously are war movies based on real life events, like Saving Private Ryan, (which my grandpa, a Korean War vet, said was the most accurate portrayal of what war was like.) and even then you get flicks that totally glamorize the whole thing. I really admire you wanting to put that sense of gravity onto the violence and death in your work, also I love when creators want to tackle war in all it's "too close to home", upsetting realism.

Capitania do Azar

I really love Saving Private Ryan, it is a very nice portrayal with a great message: nobody wants to be here

DanitheCarutor

Yes! I love Saving Private Ryan too, it was nice seeing a movie that didn't make war look like some fantastical bs.

[icharchivist]

part 1- You're gonna judge me, but I'm someone who like the existence of Hisoka in HxH ? I mean I don't like Hisoka himself, he's a morally bankrupt creepy pedophile cursed clown. But there's an incredible amount of stuff I watched where there's someone powerful on the Good Side who does a lot of creepy stuff like peeping at women without their consent, making incredibly sexist/perverted remarks, and there's even an incredible amount of groping/molesting treated as a joke and the author is like

part 2- "woah that's hilarous that hysterical/violent woman hit him as payback he's all beat up lol" and pretend that all is alright after that like what the guy did wasn't incredibly creepy/invading. and just treat the whole thing as comic relief/no big deal. (Mineta being the biggest example), "that's alright he hasn't raped anyone he's so chivalrous/cool" Hisoka is hot, he's strong, he's helped the good side numerous times

part 3 final- times, he hit the mark for "chivalrous pervert" (incredibly, Hisoka hasn't creeped on/disrespected women unlike most chivalrous pervert, but yeah he's a fucking pedophile), but clearly nobody is justifying Hisoka's attitude/approving of it, and you just get really alarmed when he does that crap like "fuck Hisoka is there y do u exist" and it's just cursed in general. Which is so refreshing unlike the authors who think what Mineta/Jiraiya does is comic relief and no big deal

part 4 the actual final sorry- HxH is like "just try justifying anything Hisoka does" and you can't, pedophilia is bad get away from the children you creepy clown, his creepyness is not romanticised/downplayed by the story. The same thing for self-harm which is praised in 99% shounen (Midoriya for example where everyone is like "woah he's so brave, but that's not very pratical") but is just horrifying in HxH (Gon-san being.. too much)

Nah i don’t judge you dw, i kinda agree. 

under cut since the conversation is huh, well, Hisoka, and a little longer than average:

As a person, Hisoka is... not someone i would like at all lmao but as a character i am at least... i guess glad a character just that morally bankrupt exist? and i especially like what he brings to the story, there’s always a sens both of safety and dread everytime he’s on screen that i find absolutly fascinating to experience. Like, when in the YN arc Killua and Gon were kidnapped, everyone i know had a moment of reassurance of “Hisoka is there he won’t let anything bad happen to them” until it hits us “wait we’re trusting Hisoka???” and i absolutly love the emotional yoyo it makes you go through.

But yeah exactly like you say, first there’s the fact that even if he helps the protagonists at time, Hisoka is still painted as an antagonist, and his creepy, disgusting actions, are framed as creepy disgusting actions. When there is a joke around his action being creepy, the joke remains on him being creepy and not on “aw look how miserable he is now that he’s been called out” or “ah look how unreasonable this person is he wasn’t doing anything wrong”, something we find a lot in “chivalrous pervert” narratives.

And just like the self harm thing you bring up i do feel like it’s part of a bigger picture of “look at how uncomfortable you’d be if an adult man would be having this sort of behavior around others men, especially teenager boys” that especially in the 98s would have been a statement to make. 

i do feel concern, especially nowadays, that it does fall under the “predatory pedophilic “sexually deviant” man” archetype and i understand being uncomfortable with that - Hisoka acts mostly creepy toward men but he does eem to have had some interest in Machi which extends his pool of creepiness, and the fact his attraction is 100% “people who’d i’d love to fight”, this remains part of a bigger trope that stigmatize LGBT+ people. And that... remains a rightful issue to be at cringing about, despite it more being a case of well, it being a trope, therefore part of a patern in multiple medias, that specifically how Hisoka himself is written.

 But yeah in the tradition of hxh bending some classic Shounen trope on an uncomfortable level i do think Hisoka falls under specifically, a way to tackle this sort of “pervert” character we see in most shounen: usually too stupid in his perversery to be harmful, where you make fun of how pitiful he is while also being complicite of his perverted actions.

Like you bring up Jiraiya and Mineta rightfully so, they do that: when they’re pervert, you’re supposed to find them pitiful, but the type of pity you laugh about and brush off. But at the same time, there are always panels to show you exactly what they’ve been perving about, you see the sexy girls being sexy in your frames so you’re “perving” with them. Hell scenes of Naruto shows Naruto, 13, changing himself into a sexy lady just to Jiraiya would actually teach him things, there is indulgence in how pervert those characters can be.

And this indulgence isn’t there with Hisoka. The fact to start with what arouse him is fighting makes that there is less body exploitation to be accomplice of when we watch him starting to be excited about something, so it leaves us to see Hisoka’s reaction exactly for what it is: creepy and disgusting.

And it’s the fact it’s framed like that that allow the audience to take a step back and watch how Hisoka  is completely morally bankrupt rather than trying to justify him. 

Adding to that the fact he mostly subjects Male characters to it shift a bit the usual focus of those perverts’s lenses we see in fiction, and yeah especially in media originally targetted toward men, it feels like a “see, now that you are at the other side of the gaze, you find it creepy don’t you?”. 

Besides Hisoka is not dumb, he’s not stupidly uncompetant, unlike a lot of the Chivalrous perverts you see in fiction, you know Hisoka is dangerous and smart enough to come up with schemes to get what he wants (just look at how his actions in the YN arc, GI arc and hell, now in the DC arc, are all calculated in order for him to get what he wants out of Chrollo). His pervert side is predatory, and is portrayed as dangerous as such, while most perverts usually get a freepass as “harmless” at least when they’re doing perverted things.

So at least I like that there is this honesty about how Hisoka is completely unredeemable and that every single of his aspects are to be shamed and be uncomfortable about. 

It is interesting imo to take such a character and have turned him into an unlikely ally in some arcs while always keeping this sense of dreads of knowing it is not completely an ally, it is a character who is completely driven by his own motivations and if the protagonists are lucky, those motivations can align with their survivals, but that’s it. And I do find it fascinating how it is written.

So yeah no i kinda agree about that. It is a bit fascinating a character like Hisoka actually exist and i do think it is meant to counter the trend we see of a lot of “positive pervert” who had been just as creepy in the way they objectified women, but that the narrative excuses because it’s funny/they’re “not doing anything wrong”. It’s refreshing in a way to just turn the picture around and go “no this is fucking disgusting no matter how you read it”

So yeah as a person, Hisoka is... Bad. Unredeemable. In every sense of the term. 

But as a character there is value in the choices taken to depict him in which the audience can distach itself from his actions and just appreciate a complex character who happens to be completely unredeemable.

If that makes sense? 

So yeah no i agree with you. I’ll still yell about the fact we had to see his ass as much as we did though.