#i wonder if the duffers did it on purpose

[theyaregayyourhonor]

There is all together 34 episodes of Stranger Things

4 season

And out all of that Mike and El managed to be in an official relationship for no more than 6 episode.

We are not counting the time passed between the seasons, just what we actually see.

S1 they are not dating

S2 they are not dating

S3 together in episode 1, El breaks up with Mike in episode 2 and they got back together in the last episode

In s4 they are togther in the first and second episode, they have the argument in the third episode which smells of a break up, but let's say

THEY WERE ON A BREAK!

That is still 6 episode total of official on screen out of 34 episodes and just to be extra fair, that's also just 6 episode out of 17 of the full of the 3rd and 4th season (8+9 episodes)

[love-byers]

most vindicating thing as a byler truther? that birthday gate is real.

one of the biggest things byler truther heard after s4 was that there's no way all these little details are on purpose because the writers aren't that keen. the writers would be so subtle and subtextual with byler because they didn't even remember wills birthday.

when people brought this up and wondered why the characters forgot wills birthday, the duffers claimed they hadn't watched s2 in years and were going to edit s2 and change his birthday to may 22nd. when it didn't change, they claimed it was just taking a while.

this was march 2023, wills first birthday since s4 came out

oh, i thought his birthday was may 22nd now?

and the way they're playing with the idea of forgetting his birthday....i can't

then march 22nd 2024, almost 2 years since s4 came out

THEY ARE FUCKING WITH US SO HARD!!!!

"burned into my brain forever" they did not forget a damn thing. clearly there is something deeper going on related to wills birthday, and it's not just that all the characters forgot.

joyce and jonathan would never forget wills birthday. and although some people like to claim otherwise, mike would never forget it either. he and will have been best friends for 10 years, there is 0 chance he just forgot wills birthday on his own.

birthdaygate isn't a gate anymore, it's just a s5 plot point

[strangerfigs]

maybe this is an unpopular opinion but you are just as valid of byler shipper if you have doubt or full on do not think they are gonna happen like i guess just shout out to all my bylers who are doubters because i truly as mike wheeler once said, don’t know what’s going to happen next, but i think it would be better if we were a team. anyway. like idk. i just am so unsure if they are gonna happen or not ?? like the subtext speaks volumes but i feel like they intentionally write it as it going either way. or many ways. ??? like even in the season 1, dustin saying that lucas is mike’s BEST friend makes me wonder if the duffers really didn’t see the potential of byler until later?? esp because they said they wrote mike as a very typical straight charqcter at first but then they met finn and changed his character. idk. ig i also just wonder about the party dynamics before will went missing because we really don’t actually know much about it. like did things change after will went missing because it’s evident and so clear that mike’s closest friend is will in every season after season 1 even when they are fighting and even when he is spending a lot of time with lucas. it’s just very very clear there is a bond there that is either outside of the party or closer than the party and it’s literally verbalized by mike himself in season 4 when he tells will that the others are great but it’s not the same without him. if it just wasn’t the same without him then he would just say that part but it’s clear since he mentions the others that he ranks will higher than them which is just funny because mike literally tells dystin that they are all his best friends and makes a point out of it so it’s just very funny but it really does make me wonder if it used to be like that but then mike sort of realized in s2 that will is his best friend whether that be from what happened or just like realization but just from mikes little monologue it’s also sort of implied that will is his BEST friend as that is the BEST decision he has ever made so. interesting. but yeah it just really makes me wonder the purpose of that scene with Dustin where he tells him that when the rest of the show past s1 clearly depicts will (and eleven) as the central points in mike’s plot lines and idk, maybe s3 was mike trying to return to his previous dynamic with will (pre- will being taken) but it’s no longer that dynamic anymore? and in doing so, mike kind of ruins their “new” dynamic a bit (not really but also kind of) but there is also no going back to their previous dynamic. so then in s4, mike is pretty sure that dynamic is ruined. I mean they never really made up in season 3. will brushes it off and they focus on the more important issues at hand. but it still happened, and while they have that scene at the end, where will tells him he isn’t going to join another party, I feel like that honestly just repairs the “party” dynamic esp because Will told Mike “you’re ruining the party” and Mike spent a majority of the first half of the season treating Will the same as Dustin and/or Lucas, categorizing them in the same “best friend” title, forcing that dynamic back into place even though, obviously, Will and Mike grew closer in s2, or at least their bond solidified, but Mike is just kind of pretending that didn’t happen? so s3 ends with will basically confirming that the party is still in tact and mike didn’t ruin it and will still wanted to be a part of it regardless of him moving, mike ruining it, him and Lucas being assholes, and mike being even a bigger asshole. but I think that the fight they had was more of a will/mike fight then it was actually about the party. it’s separate than the party dynamic and it’s more about their special bond which is why Mike runs up after him and Lucas stays in the basement, but it does result in Mike and Will having an entirely different fight of their own, which is both a stand alone fight because Mike says some fucked up shit, and Will insults his gf and says he is ruining the party. like Lucas isn’t even aware of all this!!!

(I ran out of text block). Lucas thinks that they were just a holes and they were but are apologizing for mocking him, so anyway, yeah: I just am getting at how this sort of refers again to the closer bond/additional dynamic that will and mike have which i’m not even fully convinced dustin and lucas are even aware exists? even though it so obviously does but a lot of mike and will’s most intimate moments, or moments that it’s clear they have a deeper connection, happen while they are alone. and I think Mike because he has this “you are all my best friend” mentality I think also feels guilty in s3 for having favored will or having a deeper bond with him than dustin or lucas. i think he is trying to balance it all and have it all and mike can only have one person outside of the party that he is especially close with at a time and he can barely keep that up but it’s why in s3 he feels so miserably because it’s the party, will, and el that he is trying to balance out. he therefore tries to just group will in with the party but their relationship/friendship has evolved past that so it sort of just collapses in on itself, and while the other party members are annoyed with Mike, it hits will even harder because yes, he loves him, but also because they did develop that strong bond that went deeper than the party, and now it just didn’t even exist

I think it’s safe to say that I’m totally just rambling at this point but I think it’s interesting to have s4 because it really does feel like in s3, they broke apart completely, and by the end of the season; Will was back in the party and that dynamic was healed but that wasn’t the only dynamic/bond they shared, and it really feels like in season 4, that bond is healed and restored, and mike admits to it, and WANTS it back, and admits to feeling like he lost will (due to worrying too much about el which honestly has so many meanings - worrying about her being happy, worrying about making her happy, worrying about being the perfect boyfriend so she doesn’t break up with him because he feels like he has has a mask on in the sense that he said one day she is just gonna realize he is a nerd like he has just been putting on this act and it’s so interesting and it’s so obvious too in all the season 3 scenes as well that he is just doing or saying whatever she wants to hear in so many of their scenes like that bike scene where they were just together and he is riding to the movie theater like she literally says ‘I wish you were still here right now’ and he says ‘yeah me too’ but he could have stayed like he is going to the movies and I know it’s just a small lie and like he would be a douche if he didn’t agree but it’s just such an interesting thing to include by the duffers because he isn’t going home, he could still be with her but he goes to his friends to see a movie. but I think it says a lot regarding the genuineness and sincerity of mikes words vs his actions like it is such a huge juxtaposition to create this scene idk).

anyways back to s4. s4 restores their special bond. mike is the most direct he has ever been regarding his closeness to will compared to the other members of the party. i think mike may have realized it when will left ? or at least realized he couldn’t shove will in with the rest of the party once he left, but i do feel like mike thinks he ruined it last summer with will because they barely make up as party best friends let alone best friend best friends outside of the group dynamic/bestie #1 so it sort of feels like mike just assumes he fucked that up, and he didn’t realize that Will would still want/wanted to be BEST friends with him until that roller rink scene (which is supposed to be what they are anyways because of what Mike told Dustin but I think it’s just another testament to the fact that Mike’s bond with Will is deeper and separate from the rest of the party.) I think especially too with Will not really speaking to him that whole day he didn’t really think that Will cared that much about their friendship (like to Mike, shouldn’t Will be happy that he is here? shouldn’t he be spending that time talking to him?) so I do think Mike is surprised when Will asks what about us because he didn’t realize this feeling was reciprocated because to him, really, in his little mike perspective, they had a huge fight where Will said he was ruining the party, and then when Mike tried to resolve things, Will didn’t seem interested in doing so… so (and I also think this is why Mike is so surprised that Will doesn’t plan to join another party but I do really think this was putting a bandaid on a very damaging rupture of their’s) and I think that is why he is also projecting in the sense that Mike knows that he is guilty of the rupture which caused them to drift to start with so him asking why he is always the bad guy is out of defense and guilt that this is how their friendship was now, but also a little bitterness as well because will wasn’t receptive to Mike trying to patch things up with him, and also the fact that Will was again blaming him for their friendship being the way it was when Will didn’t reach out either and how was Mike supposed to even know if Will wanted him to seeing as how things ended last summer? But also I think it’s clear that Mike tried calling more often than Will thought. Also - I think because Mike is into this idea of justice among the party and everyone being his bestie, and this is totally a hc, but he probably replicated Dustin and Lucas in regards to how often they reached out to Will and the means of how they did which wasn’t letters. Plus, Mike was pretty depressed so ! I’m sure it was hard to do anything.

All this to say, I think their friendship is lovely and beautiful and special, and while I do think that Mike has feelings for Will, I also hope (and have hope) for s5 that the st writers will honor their close bond and friendship because it is different and it is beautiful and I think that s4 really healed byler’s friendship 🙏like even when they are back with eleven, there is an obvious closeness between them that sort of proves that they are healed in that aspect which I just think is beautiful because I love their friendship so much and if the duffers aren’t going to give us Byler then I pray to god that they at least honor their beautiful and close friendship because god dammit it’s amazing. !!!!!

anyways, it is just fun to analyze their friendship because the ship is literally childhood friends to lovers which is my cup of tea, but I just feel like their friendship needs to be super strong in the 5th season and I feel at least very confident in that? which is good and nice. I will still be heart broken if byler doesn’t happen and i do have my doubts and i hope they do happen but if the duffers can at least honor their beautiful friendship then i think I’ll be okay in the end ??

but anyways. that’s some thoughts of mine

[kurokoros]

Hi, I'm the anon who made a whole ask about how Steve should have died in season 4 instead of Eddie, and I'm wondering why you haven't answered me yet.

I don't want to sound invasive, but on your post where you talked about the Duffers' inability to kill their main cast, you asked for other people's opinions, and I gave you mine, so why not answer?

Just so you know, I meant no hate towards Steve.

He's one of my favorite characters.

But I think he kinda served his purpose in season 4, and making him sacrifice for either Nancy or Dustin would have been a perfect ending for him, and the culmination of his beatiful redemption arc.

(I mean, you talked too about how Eddie clearly was just a carbon copy of Steve, at least when it came to being an older surrogate brother to Dustin.)

I simply expressed my opinion, like you asked.

So I don't understand why ignore me like this.

It's totally okay to have a different opinion.

I will not be offended.

But I don't think it's fair that you answered to anyone expect me, when I didn't attack you in the slightest.

Anyway, I hope you'll answer to at least this ask.

Have a nice day.

I've literally just been busy with packing because I'm graduating and moving out of my apartment on Saturday. Plus, my memory is screwy, so I probably saw the ask at an inconvenient time, said "oh, I'll answer that later", and then proceeded to forget to answer it later. I'm not actually online all day, I just shove posts into my queue.

I'm not sure if you meant this ask to come across as rude, but it did.

[stranger-rants]

Hey 👋

I've seen some recent anti posts where they're like "Dacre did SUCH a good job making us hate Billy" which is... just so wrong lmao.

They act like Dacre didn't put his heart, body, and mind into making Billy a sympathetic character (in contrast to the Duffers wanting another Henry Bowers).

Also... saying Billy is like Bowers is laughable tbh.

Henry targeted each and every kid in the losers club. He didn't have a sister that his father made him watch, like Billy did.

If anything, Bowers is closer to Jason Carver than any other character.

Well, Troy from s1 (and his pal, I think his name was James), too.

But I guess they were forgotten as well *sigh*

I saw someone say that Billy saying "it'll all be over soon" felt r*pish. He was possessed, and that same person also said that he'd told this to Max.

Seems to be a common theme in which some antis haven't actually watched the show.

Some die hard Steve fans who are antis, have even told me they either haven't watched s1, or they just straight up ignore s1 Steve.

As a survivor myself, I really wish antis would stop throwing around words like r*pe and abuse.

When they mention abuse, all they ever mention is Billy being the abuser. They don't talk about Neil, they don't talk about Lonnie, and they don't talk about Brenner (or Vecna).

Another thing I've noticed is that outside of our corner, the only other time this fandom mentions abuse is really just to further prove that a certain ship is canon.

Hey 👋🏻

It is funny, because Dacre has been very vocal about Billy having “flaws” but not being inherently bad or evil. He advocates so hard for imperfect victims, which is what I love about him. Billy would be nothing without Dacre, and I wish more actors had the guts to fight for better writing lol. The Duffers keep making shallow references to Stephen King’s work, and it makes me really wonder if they understood any of the major themes in his books. Granted, King was doing a lot of drugs when he wrote IT, but the story is still solidly inspired by real homophobic and racist violence in a small town as well as the general disregard for children and their safety. Stranger Things is based on conspiracy theories and government experimentation on people. Why they act like these two medias are comparable or need the same kinds of antagonists is just weird to me.

Henry Bowers was abused, too. Like, his father was a racist cop who antagonized Mike’s family for years and he was also violent towards his own son. Obviously, that had an impact on Henry who developed antisocial behavior. On the very surface, that seems similar to Billy. However, there is a big difference between them in terms of agency and the degree of harm. Billy’s violence was mostly reactive. There was a clear trigger (usually his dad). Henry sought out his victims to antagonize and he was very much addicted to the violence. IT was able to weaponize Henry because Henry wanted that power. He ended up killing his father without remorse. In order for the Mindflayer to weaponize Billy, it had to take over his mind and his body completely leaving Billy with little to no agency. Billy was consumed by guilt over what the Mindflayer made him do. His personality and reaction to trauma is nothing like Henry Bowers.

Henry is representative of the fear and hate prevalent in his small town, which is similar to Jason’s role last season in that regard. Their respective roles expose the prejudices of their communities. Billy’s role didn’t really do that. I don’t think the Duffers really thought about his purpose beyond being a “human antagonist” and a source of conflict for Max and Lucas (which…why was this necessary if they were never going to address it again?). There are obviously bigger bads whose entire shtick is Remorseless Abuser, and I’ve said before that this show *could* be about systematic abuse and fighting against it (including government/institutional abuse) but the Duffers hate survivors too much to explore that with any authenticity. So, we end up having to do that for them. This show and its fandom at large really are so shallow. All spectacle and trauma as decoration without critical thought.

[fanatics4l]

to this day, i wonder about how and why dustin and eddie were so close. it seemed from episode one that dustin was scared of him but he also admired him. none of their interactions felt like they were close friends up until the last couple of episodes where that shit was thrown in so suddenly. how did they get so close all of a sudden? what was the point of the duffers just copy pasting dustin and steve's relationship into dustin and eddie... was it lazy writing or an actual decision with purpose??? if steve died and dustin was behaving like that, then maybe i would've teared up a bit

[strangerthings4theories]

You realize you're essentially unironically reliving the hysterical moral satanic panic of the eighties when you chose to assign Eddie as the antichrist / evil dark shadow whatever tf purely based on his appearance and his interests, right? The point kinda went straight over your head with this character. He doesn't kill Chrissy. He's a high school kid with a home and a family and regular old desires, and he's not gonna weaponize the Upside Down or whatever tf you're claiming. The information is out there if you really wanted to look.

Wait... what? Are you serious?

Eddie is not a real person. I REPEAT: EDDIE IS NOT A REAL PERSON. I'm not "judging" him based on his interests or appearance. I'm asking, "Why did the Duffers choose to give him this symbolism?" "Why does he look so much like Billy?" And so on. Because, and I really need you to understand this: Eddie is a ***fictional construct*** the Duffers created for some sort of ***purpose.*** Every single character in a story has one. So I'm wondering what Eddie's purpose is. Especially when Billy already fulfills the purpose Eddie seems positioned to inherit! (I.e: teaching other characters, "Don't judge a person by their outward appearance.") Why, then, did they kill Billy and bring in Eddie? It doesn't make sense unless they're going to give his character a twist.

THIS IS ABOUT THE STORY. That's it. The end.

If Eddie was an actual person I met in real life, I wouldn't give a shit that he dresses in black, wears skulls, listens to heavy metal, and plays D&D. In fact, I would think he's dope as fuck! In case you didn't know (you didn't, but I'm saying all this to point out how idiotic you're being), *I* DRESS IN BLACK. *I* WEAR SKULLS. *I* LISTEN TO HEAVY METAL. I'M FRIENDS WITH PEOPLE WHO PLAY D&D AND WANT TO LEARN HOW TO PLAY TOO.

Me listening to heavy metal and flashing the sign of the horns while I wear a ripped Guns n Roses shirt with a GIANT SKULL on it.

I DO NOT GIVE. A SINGLE. SHIT. I thought the fact that I'm a fan of Billy, one of the most "problematic" characters in Stranger Things, would've been evidence enough for that. But I guess not.

So yeah. You're laughably off base accusing ME, of all people, of "unironically reliving" the Satanic Panic, when you yourself are unironically falling into the conservative Christian mindset that can't tell the difference between fiction and reality. Which, by the way, was THE MINDSET THAT ACTUALLY FUELED THE SATANIC PANIC.

Fuck allllll the way off, and don't come back until you've learned how to talk about fiction.

[bylertruther-moved]

Do you think Mike was internally freaking out or filed with angst when he read El’s letter about Will painting a lot/being weird and maybe its for a girl he likes. I wonder if he thought about what she wrote when he saw Will carrying the painting or handing the painting to him.

See, that's just the thing! I don't know for sure. They start out the episode telling you this, showing you that Mike has read this letter and remembers its contents, and then when he gets to the airport he acts extremely weird about it. The expression that he puts on--purposely and intentionally devoid of emotion and extremely cautious--makes it seem like he's bracing himself for something. It's different to the one he had when he first greeted Will. It's deliberate.

On my first watch, I'd immediately assumed that he was acting that way because of what Eleven had said, but then Finn and the Duffers kept repeating that Mike is completely and totally oblivious so now I'm unsure.

They show you one thing on the show and then tell you another. Given how they backtracked with the whole "actually we were just kidding about Will being ambiguous lol he's been gay and in love with Mike the whole time hehe you were right<3" thing, it makes me feel like they're going to do that again next season with that scene. It just... doesn't make sense to me. We SAW him read the letter, then Will shows up to the airport with a wrapped up painting, and Mike is acting extremely sus about it. We're just... not supposed to think anything of it? I don't buy it.

I think Mike was definitely internally freaking out when he first saw it. He said that he felt like he'd lost Will and that the past year had been weird as a result because Hawkins just wasn't the same without him. We know that he's felt Will's absence terribly and that he tried to reach out but couldn't. Honestly, I think his heart started beating, and pounding, and threatening to jump right out of his chest when he saw that painting in Will's hands. Why else would he have gotten all choked up, nervous, looking at him like a deer caught in the headlights?

Will's artwork is hung up all around Mike's basement; he has a binder full of his drawings; we even see some posted in his room still. That isn't even mentioning just how awed and enamored he looked when Will did finally give it to him. Compare that to how easily and thoughtlessly he threw away what could've been the last thing El ever gave or said to him. In just a few seconds, they show you how much Mike values the gifts he receives from them both. We know how Mike feels.

Given how braced he was in that moment, I'm betting that Mike probably had a fleeting moment of doubt where he felt like maybe he hadn't lost Will after all, but when Will emotionally pulled away and didn't give him the painting, he closed himself off again, too, and that added to why he was so hurt and petty and angry with Will at Rink-O-Mania. He let himself have a glimmer of hope only for it to immediately be squandered. Again.

As for when he does finally receive it, I think we have to consider just how much Will had been reassuring him about Eleven and the fact that at that point it'd already been revealed that she was lying in her letters to him. He had no reason to believe that Will would ever lie to him, just as he had no reason to believe this would be Eleven's one truth. As such, I think he's so overjoyed and blown away by the painting, that he doesn't pause to consider that Eleven has never been interested in DnD (and as a result wouldn't know about this dragon that is a common figure in his drawings of their party, the specifics of their roles, or probably what a coat of arms even is).

It's an unfortunate situation all around, but one that's 100% going to blow up in their faces to give us that juicy, yummy byler drama. >:)

[demadogs]

hello! this message doesn't have anything to do with anything you've been talking about recently so i'm sorry if this comes across as annoying. but you're the only person that seems relatively level-headed about this kinda stuff so i guess i just wanted your opinion? i'm just wondering why it seems like so many people are freaking out over the possibility of will &/or mike dying in volume 2?? i'm sorry but there's absolutely no way the duffers would kill will off after his arc this season, they would get called out so fast & they're not that stupid. & as for mike, i mean even if he isn't confirmed gay this season killing him off after how little screentime he's had? that would just be tremendously shitty writing & such a disservice to his character. & yeah i know they've hinted that maybe not everyone's gonna make it out of this alive, but...... idk i just really don't see why anyone's even bothering to worry about will or mike. like it just seems like people are freaking themselves out for no reason whatsoever skdnsjjs

youre right!! theres no reason to be scared!! theres literally no way mike or will are dying this season and i highly doubt in season 5 either.

for one thing, noah has literally already confirmed he doesnt die bc the last time he was on fallon he was talking about how sad he is that theres only one more season to shoot and that he was texting millie and gaten about it. he wouldnt even be on set next season if he died in volume 2. also he confirmed that we’ll get some more supernatural related stuff with will in volume 2 so i think he’ll have a big role in s5.

also even if you dont consider why it would be such a bad move to kill either of them off for storytelling purposes alone, theyd never kill them off because the actors are so talented and loved. a lot of people, especially kids their age of younger, watch the show because they love the kid actors so much, including finn and noah. if this story was a book id think theres a bigger chance of either of them dying but bc the actors are so loved theres no way theyd kill them off.

also it would be incredibly stupid to plant all these queer coding for both characters in the last three seasons only to kill one of them like come on. you did all that work for nothing.

i literally dont know why people are so scared. mike and will wont die. i highly doubt any of the kids will die tbh. this season is already so focused on max’s grieving they dont need to just repeat that next season if one of the kids dies this season.

[munsons-maiden]

I'm crying so hard, Joseph really lied after hall

I'M ALSO SO MAD THIS IS LAZY WRITING WTF

That's what I don't get. Those TWO interviews. "I sure hope so. I'd be mad if they don't bring me back" & "Eddie and Jonathan haven't met yet so that's a thing we're really pushing for in Season 5". I might be going mad with grief Jason-Carver-style but...if he wasn't in ST5, why LIE about it? Why not say "I can't tell you, ask me after Vol 2 has aired"? He implied, two times, that he'd be in ST5. I can't wrap my head around it. Did the Duffers tell him, "hey Joe we know Eddie dies but we need you to lie and imply you're in ST5?" What would be the purpose?

And that's what that stupid, stupid last ember of hope doesn't want to be snuffed out because watching this scene felt so wrong and so off, that I still wonder: did they intend for it to feel so wrong and off because it's something that will be fixed?

Something in me broke watching this scene. And the whole fun of ST died with Eddie.

[imsodishy]

I did actually like Eddie (though I understand why mileage may vary) but he was introduced with a big flashing sign that said I AM DISPOSABLE so I immediately had zero canon attachment to him, I knew where it was going. Whatever I'll see him in fics selling drugs and pinning for Chrissy (who basically had first victim stamped on her forehead so, same deal really)

This isn't really about Eddie anyway, but like I said in the tags on someone else's post before volume 2 dropped, 'at some point he's gonna not run and it'll get him killed and the duffers will pat themselves on the back like 'good arc. very satisfying' and lo and behold!

It's just emblematic of how they handle their characters. Every character decision they make on purpose is just so painfully boring and and rote. All the best character shit has been by accident and then they immediately stomp all over it because they are emotionally incompetent as writers.

It's astonishing how not character driven they are, and even more astonishing that the actors have managed to inject what verve they have. And it’s no wonder fic writers have wrung so much more out of it.

Perfect example of 'It's not that deep. Maybe not originally, but the ground is soft and I am ready to dig.'

[that-thing-that-feeling]

Jonathans arc next season will no doubt center around his brother, thats why they pushed the Jon/will relationship this season. Nancy and him will basically team up to get will back from vecna or something similar but regardless the duffers know the importance of will and jonathans relationship and i can see noah and charlie really advocating for that

Idk they hardly had him interact with his brother when he was possessed in s2–I mean they did by the end, but it def makes me wonder. I would think a lot of Jonathan’s arc would focus on Will, since Will will clearly be a target of Vecna next season and such a big plot point goes back to his disappearance, so it would make sense to bring that back full circle to s1, plus we had the scene of them reconnecting this season. Idk what they really mean about the groupings though—the one they’ve been the most clear on is that the party is back together and will be in s5. Idk if they’ll have the teens all together. I could also see Vecna target Nancy again btw since she made the plan to go after him, and I wonder if Nancy will also connect in via her own relationship with Vecna, with El, or with Will.

But in any case, I def hope they don’t just cut Jonathan out of what happens with Will (who btw is def not going to die—they won’t kill Will, that defeats like the entire purpose of the series.)

[beepboop358]

i think s4 is going to be about time travel. rewatch hopper’s letter/speech to eleven from the end of s3: he talks about “turning back the clock” and making things “go back to the way they were” (https://youtu.be/TkNRgZ5in7w). what did they show us on the s4 teaser? a grandfather clock! a grandfather clock that seems to be very important, so it’s very, very unlikely that it’s all just a coincidence. tbh, i’d be very disappointed in the writers if it turned out to be a coincidence lol :P i get that, yeah, i could be stretching a bit here, BUT we also have all of the back to the future references from s3! they always pick their references sooo carefully and i think showing us back to the future was a deliberate decision! if it’s possible, with enough energy, to open a gate to another dimension, why wouldn’t it be possible to, idk? open a wormhole through spacetime? making time travel possible? i believe it’s all very plausible, and it would also explain all of the scenes with eleven at the lab! when they showed a younger el and brenner in the s4 teaser we thought they might be showing us flashbacks, but they could be just... showing us the actual past itself! which are, technically, different things. because flashbacks can’t be altered, right? the past just might.

I definitely agree with you that the clues in hoppers letter are very important and not all a coincidence with the amount of clocks we have seen in the promos and teasers! I also think the back to the future reference in s3 was purposeful in giving us clues for s4. The duffers do not include anything random in the show, it's all clues. I don't think any of that was a coincidence! I do wonder what the grandfather clock itself represents. Besides obviously time, it could have some kind of connection to the upside down and this season's monster, since that shape was seen in several promos, the teaser, and leaked bts images of the grandfather clock shape in the Hawkins High school. It's all very suspicious and I totally agree not a coincidence!

Hopper’s letter references “not wanting things to change, turning back the clock, to make things go back to how they were”. I think this shows us that the clocks are meant to represent memories or past times/events. Memory plays a huge part in the show, which is why I think it will be central in s4 to the time theme. Also, there is so much about each character's past that we don't know and showing us their memories would greatly help give us the answers we need - and as the show approaches it's end in the next few seasons, it's time for the writers to start setting things up for how we eventually get those answers. Additionally, Hopper's letter is very Byler-centric as well. It focuses on Mike when it says those lines (and also briefly Will) when Hopper says those lines about "not wanting things to change, turning back the clock, to make things go back to how they were". Mike wants his relationship with Will to go back to how it used to be when they were kids and everything was simpler. He damaged his relationship with Will that summer trying to be more "mature" in the way he thinks he has to, and we can see on his face during those lines, he is hurting, and he knows he hurt Will too. (If you're interested in more analysis of Hopper's letter I suggest you check out my Byler Proof master slides where I explain it in-depth: slides 92-104)

All of those clues I mentioned above are how I’ve kind of devised my theory that the time travel in s4 will be more like “time travel flashbacks”. In other words, time travel will be involved, just not the traditional idea of it like in back to the future or any other movie like that. I don't think these “time travel flashbacks” will be true flashbacks, meaning I don't think the flashbacks will be "flashbacks" in the traditional sense of the word. I think in s4 the characters will be able to look into the past (and maybe the future too) and they will be transported to the time of the memory through the powers of the void/upside down/something supernatural, similar to how El spies on people through the void and can watch what they are doing in present time- but with things that have already happened. She already kind of does this in s3 when she looks into Billy's memories and is actually there in the memory, which I think is a huge clue for the events of s4. I think what I'm calling "time travel flashbacks" maybe I should call something else because it might be confusing - I just meant they would be experiencing the time travel through "flashbacks" of memories, but they will really be there in the memory. I think they will be visiting the actual past, just in the form of memories.

I think the "time travel flashbacks" will be experienced in 2 ways depending on whose's memory is being seen/characters are transported too: If it's not their memory they are visiting, they will be passive observers like El with Billy's memory in s3, but if it is their memory, it will be them experiencing it as it were at the time of the memory, almost like a re-enactment.

In the s4 teaser "Eleven are you listening?" when we see El in the lab, I think they are showing us the actual past itself, just like you mentioned, but that it's through El's memory, like it is really happening and she is really there back in the lab again, but as a past young El like she was at the time of the memory. She, like all the characters who have these "time travel flashbacks" will experience these memories, in the exact way they happened.

These "time travel flashbacks" are different from regular flashbacks, which we could get both of this season. I hope I explained this all okay!

You make an interesting point about them trying to open up a wormhole or "a rip in time in space" (how Mr. Clarke describes it in s1). They basically already did that in s3 when the Russians try to use the machine to get to the upside down. Eleven opens the gate with her powers in s1, opening a doorway to another world/another dimension. It's definitely possible for this to happen again.

I'm not sure if the show will include any past-altering. I guess we will have to wait and see. Personally, if they do do the "time travel flashbacks" and characters visit memories, I don't know if they would be able to alter anything. When El visits Billy's memories in s3, she is there in the memory, but she doesn't change anything that happens in the future, that we know of. She is merely a passive observer in said memory, experiencing it as a 3rd party. She doesn't inhabit Billy's form or anything to change what he does, (the observer cannot inhabit the person’s form whom the memory belongs to because it isn’t their memory) and her presence does not seem to be noticeable to Billy or his Mom.

Thanks for sharing your ideas anon!!

[blackteaaddict]

Hi I just wanted to tell you how much joy it brought me to open tumblr one day to a dash full of Eddie thanks to someone I followed way back bc of Yi City! Jcjejfdj idk I guess I'm just glad you're also in this rabbithole💜 was also kinda wondering whether you've heard of the Kas theory cuz you know... you mentioned that Eddie's fine post s4, just a zombie playing his guitar in the Upside Down, and yeah, you're not way off from this theory actually since it implies him being a vampire XD (and also Vecna's puppet. Just imagine all the angst potential!!) Anyway, don't wanna give you any false hope but I'm still in denial about his death so the Kas theory is my only consolation (doesn't help that the more I think about it the more sense it makes) so may as well share. Okay, sorry for rambling into your askbox, I'm just too full of blorbo feels nowadays, hopefully you have a good day!💜

omg hi fellow yi city and eddie lover!!! it’s always fun when you find ppl from the other fandoms in your new fandom xD (though I have to say I'm still much more casually in the stranger things fandom than in cql fandom, idk if it will turn into a full blown obsession? rn I'm just mostly reblogging gifs with eddie, not engaging that much in meta nor reading any fanfic)

anyway I’m happy to hear you were delighted by my eddie spam on your dash xD (and I just have to mention here that I always headcanon that modern au xue yang is into heavy metal music, especially into trash metal, I think it fits him so well! sometimes I headcanon he can play guitar as well, despite his fucked up left hand)

ok now back to that eddie returns topic... that post about zombie eddie was written in the great feelings right after watching the final episode and yeah later on I realized that he indeed should be more of a vampire because of the bats (I guess I went with zombie because iron maiden's eddie seems kinda more like a zombie so my brain went there idk hfgksjdfjs). mostly I was angry he died because hmmm I didn't feel like his death was really that necessary? like, he could survive that, severely bitten but still alive (just like steve survived! yeah I know not so many bats attacked him but steve was fucking shirtless!!!). mostly I didn't feel like his death really changed it all that much for the whole plot? what purpose did it serve? it felt like he died just because the script writers and duffers wanted him to die. like, steve, nancy and robin could have also died, strangled by those demonic vines but of course they were needed for the plot (and I'm glad they didn't die xD), but I don't understand why eddie couldn't make it out alive too then. I feel like nothing really would be taken away from his heroic "didn't run away" moment if he survived it and just passed out in dustin's arms instead of dying?

I saw some ppl talking about “the kas theory” but I always forgot to google it ooops xD but ok now I googled it and hmm idk how I feel... I have mixed feelings honestly? because on one hand I want eddie to come back in season 5 but I'm not sure if I want it like this? kinda feels like a bit of a repeat of billy and mind flayer from s3. (and I have to say I didn't like it that much and the direction they took with billy in s3... mostly because I was counting on more interaction between billy and max and their whole household because from the tiny glimpses we got it seemed like a huge mess but then the duffers never really elaborated on it? like I'm glad we at least got the little flashback into billy's childhood but it's just a crumb. I wanted to know the current dynamics of that fucked up family, what's happening now, how the relationship between him and max developed. it was implied that it got better but it all happened off-screen but then in s4 max said that actually it was still bad so????? the duffers had such an interesting plot here and they just skipped that? tossed it away? got billy mind controlled and then killed him off instead of really putting the work into writing him a real full fleshed redemption arc? and like I'm all for my poor little meow meows getting tortured but ugh I guess I just wanted more billy being billy and we lost that once he got mind flayed. I was just very frustrated with the fact that I felt that there was so many questions and interesting things to explore in billy’s (and max’s) story but once billy got under mind control there was no space for that anymore and I felt robbed.)

but ugh since we got a lot of eddie screentime in s4 that won’t be the problem here... and maybe it could give some meaning to his death? generally I’m not sure if I want him as yet another meatsuit borrowed by vecna... but I’m not saying it couldn’t work either...

but when I said I wanted eddie back it was him as a part of the gang, he had suffered enough! xD also I like him as a quartet with steve and nancy and robin. and will is back in hawkings, he should get a chance to play dnd with eddie goddamnit! (it was so unfair to banish will to california while his friends joined an awesome dnd club and will was the most into dnd of thme all. come on. it's a hate crime. also that hair-do they gave him in s4 was a hate crime too.)

but the more I think about eddie resurrection the more it makes sense he could only come back under some kind of mind control of vecna, if he was changed by the powers of upside down into a vampire or some other undead being, then it would only be logical he would be part of this world now. so I guess it all depends on how that kas theory would be executed? because it might be interesting, but also I can easily see it being disappointing and boring and eddie would probably die at the end anyway... so idk??? basically it mostly seems to me like theory that would be way more fun to explore in fannish spaces that to see it brought on screen as a part of the series? I always have limited trust for the show creators jhgfkjsdhgjkh

in general I’m trying to have no expectations for s5 because I’m kinda afraid for it? after the disappointment that was mcu and infinity war/endgame I’m kinda reluctant with my trust for the writers, especially if it’s some big finale of a few seasons long/few movies long franchise. like, I hope s5 will be good... but also won’t be surprise if everything will implode from it’s own weigh.

anyway, thank you for rambling into my ask! I was very happy to receive your little message! and I hope you’ll have a good day too!

[kaypeace21]

I literally cannot wait until season 4 so that mileven being endgame can prove ur crazy ass wrong 🙄

lmao... spoken like someone who hasn’t watched a single movie said to inspire S4 . I CAN’T WAIT FOR S4 XD

Mike saying on the phone “El, sorry not interested “ (IN S3) was foreshadowing. In s4 movies- ‘swingers’ the guy name mike hangs up on his ex who wants to get back together so he can talk to his new love interest (Will) -hangs up on his ex as she says  “I love-“. Then in ‘splash’ he breaks up with his gf on the phone says “do I love you?well what about you?” To dodge the question (then yells at a family member ease dropping on the other line -Karen). And they break up on the phone. And he tells a friend later he never loved her. 

In ‘altered states’ and ‘children of paradise’ the characters admit the people they dated were being used by them and the whole time they were pretending it was the Will character. In altered states they say “she’s crazy about him and he’s crazy.” The guy even has episodes and sees another world just like Will. The women even says “ no matter how much I pretended it was him I just felt empty cause it wasn’t  . It’s crazy.”and the friend says “I think that’s how it’s supposed to be.” (in ‘twister’ and ‘it’s a wonderful life) the mother/aunt tells a childhood friend they other person is  “crazy about” them not their current partner (we love Karen) . In ‘drop dead fred’ the guy named Mikey breaks up with his wife before the start of the film and gets with the “crazy” childhood friend he knew since he was 5. Also lmao in sky high . The future couple knew each other since the 1st grade. And she gushes about the character named Will. And her friend says “so that’s was the first grade... but when did you fall in love with him?” Her: “no... pfft. I don’t love Will... is it that obvious 😞?”

The exes constantly call him and are cray in the films (el stalking and never apologizing for spying. And mileven dancing to a song about stalking ‘every breath you take’ wasn’t a coincide). 2 movies the ex saying they’ll get back together and their new relationships are “just phases” etc ( waynes world,  high fidelity, dumb and dumber). Saying they’re still together when they aren’t (wayne’s world). Loads of movies had the crazy ex sabotage, call constantly, and flirt despite the exes discomfort and repeatedly saying it’s over (despite not loving them and just be possessive ).2 movies (clueless and birdcage) had a girl (one being an ex) hitting on the gay guy, despite knowing he was gay . El gets over it once the supernatural plot kicks in -like s2, but yeah ...

In ‘fisher king’ a man and women who work at a video store tries to set up the 2 characters who no one expected to end up together. The girl who helps (Robin) says “stranger things have happened.” And the guy who was set up also hallucinated a mythical creature (like Will). In highschool musical Troy and gabriel say it’s like they known eachother since kindergarten- and their 2 friends sabotage it saying “we need to save them from themselves” (my guess Dustin and Lucas) .Also in ‘swingers’ the guy friends mocked mike for “being gay” (he wasn’t but they did - while trying to set him up with girls). In wet hot American summer the 2 guy friends try to set up their friend with girls and even say as a joke he’s “gay” for writing letters (cough to Will) instead of hitting on girls. And in that movie he was gay the whole time while they were trying to set him up with chicks.   2 guys at a dinner table (birdcage) hear homophobic comments and the Mike character spills water and tries to change the subject to football which he knows nothing about (s2 ref with Mike and his dad). (in wedding crashers) the painter guy is also called a “homo” and storms away upset from dinner. In ‘don’s plum’ one of the friends outs a his male friend on purpose as bi at dinner.

This is only a taste... lmao. There’s so many other byler hints and mileven burns.But I’m saving that for the full s4 analysis. Mileven is/will be dead as F*CK . I can’t wait for s4- the Duffers have been setting up these burns for a while. XD

[bobbytriesatlife]

Since someone brought up Stranger Things, I’m gonna comment to no one about my opinion.

 One really good thing I think season 3 did, but probably not on purpose was the shift of how El’s powers worked. Throughout most of the show it’s explicitly shown that her powers are triggered and controlled by her anger and usually a means to hurt something/someone. In season 3, she starts getting into Wonder Woman, who’s focus is compassion. El’s powers stop working partly cause of stuff with the upside down, but I thought it would be cool if part of it was because she grew emotionally so her mind won’t allow her to draw from that anger anymore. Her powers reactivate when she wants to save her dad and shows compassion toward Billy, who didn’t deserve it, but she was able to empathize with his pain. 

Maybe it was on purpose, but with the way the Duffer brothers talk out their ass and barely pull off anything else well, Idk. I just think it’s a fascinating way to show a character develop and show them working through their trauma by slowly realizing they don’t have to rely on the abusive and unhealthy habits taught to them.