#i will never understand why his entire character arc is ignored lol

[kolbietheaggrievedwriter]

Any time I stumble across a fic with the tag "Bakugou Katsuki/Consequences", it's mute on sight lmao

[seriousbrat]

a post of yours was on my for you, it was about james potter and an ask (who was pretty rude and i don’t want to come off that same way) told you that james potter never changed and you started talking about how it was impossible he never did, that it’s crazy to think he was a manipulator etc etc but it’s rather simple imo. james was a frat boy who had friends he liked and he was good to, except maybe peter, he didn’t like severus because he was friends with his crush and he bullied other kids with his friends, because he could. he felt entitled to lily’s love because he was a blood traitor. that’s ok characters can change, but did he stop bullying severus? no (i saw your argument about sirius and remus saying snape never lost an opportunity to hex james, but 1 wouldn’t have lily noticed then 2 i don’t trust the words of the same people who said snape was angry at james because he was jealous of his good looks and his quidditch abilities) so what is that about? he acted as if he had became better person (which he may have, but he was still bullying severus and we have no proof of him becoming a better person except lily marrying him which is crazy leave the girl alone she’s not a moral compass) around lily whom he wanted to impress and then still bullied severus. i don’t think that’s a crazy thing to say, it’s actually very possible and it happens a lot of time in real life.

Thanks for the message, you don't come off as rude at all so dw!

"it happens a lot of time in real life." The thing is that this isn't real life. It's fiction, and I feel like I'm always saying this so sorry lol but that means we have to analyse the author's intention in showing what she did. These are fictional characters and not autonomous real people who do things "off-camera" that we can speculate about based on statistics or our own experience.

We're given evidence that James changed. If the truth was supposed to be that he actually didn't change and was always secretly the same dickhead and maliciously hiding this from Lily the entire time, we would have been given evidence of that. Everything we're shown about Lily and James as a couple is that they loved each other and had a good relationship. Again, if he was meant to be an evil conniving manipulator who was tricking Lily, it would have been shown in the text.

If you don't trust Remus and Sirius's word there are two other major pieces of evidence that James changed. The first is that Lily started dating him when previously she couldn't stand the sight of him. The second is that he was made head boy, and whatever Dumbledore's faults I sincerely doubt that he gave Head Boy to a person who was actively going around terrorising the student body. We know that circa 5th year, his behaviour was very public and apparent to everyone. For me, that lends credence to the idea that James "deflated his head" during sixth year, enough to be given responsibility over others.

The fact that Remus and Sirius mention James changing and also the fact that Snape was giving as good as he got during 7th year, and this is never contradicted but reinforced by other sources, means it's probably mostly true. Obviously Remus and Sirius's account is biased and imperfect, and we have to read between the lines. But, and I say this as a fan of Snape, there is plenty of evidence that Snape had an aggressive side. As a child he causes a branch to fall on Petunia and he invents an incredibly violent spell. As an adult he throws jars at a 16 year old boy and loses his shit at Fudge among others. Some of these are understandable, sure, but it is a part of his character and I don't understand why people are so hell-bent on ignoring it.

Like, it's fine. Part of Snape's arc is learning to control his emotions and limiting these outbursts of aggressiveness, which is why he's shown to be much more uncontrolled and violent as a child, whereas as an adult he's more collected and circumspect. It makes sense why he is the way he is, because it's implied he grew up in a home marked by violence. Personally, I think this is a VERY interesting aspect of his character and for me it makes absolute sense that he would attack James during 7th year. Particularly given that James and Lily were dating at the time. I am cheering him on from the sidelines. I am enjoying the show. Meek little harmless spineless Severus, idk him.

Also I'm sorry, but a lot of this is your own interpretation, likely based on your dislike for James. there's NO evidence that james "felt entitled" to Lily's love for instance. That really seems like a conclusion you've come to on your own. It's fine to have your own interpretations ofc, but they're not necessarily supported by canon. Personally I disagree with them, but that's fine too!

I appreciate the Lily appreciation though!! Let that girl do whatever the fuck she wants 👏

[electric-friend]

listen i know the whole “ed did nothing wrong”/“killing and maiming his his coping mechanism uwu” thing is a super silly joke lol and even i found it funny but it’s kinda just pissing me off.

i just hate that they never really properly resolved ed resorting to violence when he’s upset and that he never really takes accountability for his actions onscreen. and when the side of the fandom that takes no issue at all with the way seeason two was presented makes jokes that show they’re like aware of the vibes they just don’t care bc they hold characters they don’t like and characters they do like to entirely different standards. it’s just annoying lol.

like listen. yeah. ed’s my special little babygirl princess haha i love him. but like. i feel like it’s also ignoring the fact that the violence is actually bad for ed’s mental health and we know this and it’s canonically established.

the same people who make “ed did nothing wrong” jokes literally call people who do the same to izzy bad people. not all of them but like the people aligned with that Side of the fandom.

like first of all we know that canonically though ed’s capable of violence it’s not good for him. that’s a huge part of his character, that he doesn’t want to be Blackbeard. so the jokes ur making leave your favourite character unhappy anyway? and if you’re going to talk like that about ed then why is it a CRIME to do the same about izzy?

i think i’m just kinda annoyed bc people act like if you’re critical of the way the writing failed to give ed a great redemption arc it’s because you’re a racist idiot blind with love for izzy, but in fact, you can remove izzy from the equation entirely and it still sucks because it sucks for ed’s character that his arc was so confusing and we left him in such an uncertain place as a character.

listen, i don’t exactly advertise this bc i feel like people won’t understand, but i’ve been through a lot of trauma, and at times in my life when that’s been a lot fresher for me, i’ve had really serious issues with anger and aggression and lashing out. i think that’s why i connected with izzy and i think it’s why i connected with ed so strongly but also found it so hard to watch the first couple episodes of the second season.

and coming from that place, with that perspective, when i talk about ed being abusive towards izzy and the narrative not being resolved, i am NOT hating on ed and cancelling ed and saying ed is an evil person. what i’m saying is that ofmd s2 took on a really, really complex and serious and intense subject matter, and then the writing failed to carry the weight of that. i love ed, and i feel like his character was let down by us not seeing him clearly express that he’s holding himself accountable for his actions on-screen, or even seeing him healing in relation to his violent impulses that come from his trauma. his killing spree in the finale was really odd in terms of his overall arc and is honestly what threw it all off the most for me. like it’s obvious that scenes regarding ed’s apologies and forgiveness from the crew are supposed to have happened and we maybe just didn’t see all of it, because the season was rushed due to the screen time. but a lot of it is also just poor decisions in the writing and the way ed’s storyline is laid out in the final cut.

to me, saying that ed’s arc was beautiful and perfect and it’s wrong to criticise it or to acknowledge the severity of his mistakes and actions isn’t a form of loving ed. it’s a way of saying you’d rather ed actually not take steps towards healing, just because you want to pretend he didn’t do anything wrong in the first place so you can feel like the better person in the conversation. to me, the people who say ed did no wrong are expressing that they actually don’t love ed.

i mean it’s not that deep, it’s all fictional, but i wish people would look beyond their predisposition to condemning criticism of something they like, and see that there’s a lot of heart, and a lot of really personal experience and real-world context behind the arguments people are making, and that other opinions about the writing in s2 are worth listening to even if they make you uncomfortable at first.

[audiblehush]

Listen, Polin has been my Roman Empire for months now, but this fandom is WILDIN’.

Chunks of this fandom who claim to be Polin fans seem to hate either Colin or Penelope and I’m just like… why are you here, then, if you refuse to empathize or even TRY to understand either critical half of the pairing?

“Colin can’t see what’s in front of him and he insulted her in front of his peers!! GROVEL; I hope Pen moves onto Debling!!!”

First of all, you’re not a Polin fan if you hate Colin so much you want her to move on to someone else. Second of all: yeah, no. Yes,Colin put his foot in his mouth, arguably in a big way because of status, but plenty of people in real life have experienced saying something that came off poorly to a group of people. Everything we know about Colin’s character tells us he is going to feel horrible about it; he’ll apologize, MEAN IT, and she’ll forgive him. She has her own apologies to make.

Believe it or, it is NORMAL for people to grow into romantic feelings slowly. Stop punishing Colin for discovering who he is by experiencing his own character arc with his own mistakes. He’s allowed to have flaws; he’s allowed to work through his insecurities!

Tbh, most of the criticisms I see of Colin are pretty surface-level and petty, so I don’t give them much real estate in my brain because they’re just… bad, lol.

On the flip side -

“Penelope feels entitled to Colin’s feelings; she’s selfish and the fucking worst!!”

S3 Penelope: *overhears Colin say he would never court her; BELIEVES him - decides she’s going to stop wasting her time, move on, and look for a serious suitor and marriage prospect a) as is expected of her in this era and b) so that she has security, especially considering her family’s dire financial straits.*

“Oh my GOD, this is so anti-Polin, how could she POSSIBLY even THINK about accepting a proposal from anyone but Colin?! GTFO”

SIGH, 1) we have NO IDEA how this plot line is going to pan out: Lord Debling may or may not be serious about her, we don’t know what that even looks like, or for how long. The show synopsis historically likes to play with the fandom expectations a lot. He may possibly propose… and if he does, it would clearly exist as a sort of parallel to S1…. but 2) GOD FORBID Penelope entertain the idea, despite very real fears and evidence that would lead her thinking it would likely be her ONLY proposal… or that even if Colin proposed post heavy-petting session, how on EARTH could she think that he would be doing it out of honor-bound obligation and not love. 🙄 Her potentially considering a proposal isn’t anti-Polin; it’s a realistic response and consideration to two (and likely an additional half) seasons worth of external and internal stressors that are tying into her character development.

Penelope’s heart is fragile for a multitude of reasons due to her home life, her prior experiences with Colin and Eloise AND the rest of the ton - it’s incredibly frustrating for people to ignore why she would potentially not believe Colin even if he DID confess / give her a marriage proposal, just like it’s frustrating when people don’t try to understand why Colin might struggle with his own feelings.

Some of y’all really don’t understand people like Penelope who have been told their entire lives that they are not enough, are terrified of putting themselves out there by being emotionally vulnerable and potentially rejected for the fundamental aspects of who they are… even though some of y’all claim to identify with Colin when he has his OWN STRUGGLES WITH SOME OF THESE SAME FEARS. And it’s almost worse because Pen is painfully SHY: You don’t just magically become confident one day because you decided to be; it is a constant battle against negativity that eventually becomes heavily internalized… it takes years of work unlearn those thought patterns, especially when you’re surrounded by people insulting and rejecting your to your face (her family) or behind your back (the way the ton talks about her family… it’s likely Pen heard gossip about herself, whether individually or as an extension of her family PLENTY)… with an added dose of also being ignored when not actively insulted.

It would not shock me at ALL if Penelope genuinely considers a Debling proposal. All of Colin’s actions in S1 and S2 have ultimately taught her that he is never going to return her feelings; she is likely going to be pretty oblivious to his own romantic realizations this season because why would she look for or entertain those hopes again? Some of y’all complain that she is selfish about Colin’s romantic feelings (which lol, I disagree strongly, but sure hypothetically, I’ll allow it) … so then when she tries to move on by listening to him and his actions she’s suddenly… punishing him and undeserving of him?? When she would have every reason to be skeptical of these feelings coming from seemingly nowhere when he starts of the season trying to find her a husband? NAH fam, she’s doing what anyone with any sense of emotional self-preservation would do: move on and try to be content, even if she knows she’ll always love Colin in her heart.

AND even if Penelope develops potentially fond feelings for Debling… do you really think it’s unrealistic for a 19 year old young woman who has done nothing but pine over a man who is oblivious to it (or worse, finds a romantic relationship with you laughable… in her eyes), who has not had ANYONE be romantically interested her… to maybe get a little fluttery around someone who is reasonably nice looking and shows her genuine interest right off the bat? Spoiler Alert: that is probably exactly what would happen because it’s a heady feeling!!!

This entire plotline is either a parallel to the Marina situation, or a reference to the book line that basically has Colin going “Oh shit, what if I had never realized Pen is the love of my life?? What if someone else had seen how amazing she was and snatched her up??” - Maybe it’s even both! Deep breath: it’s a just plot device for Polin to realize they’re made for each other.

Colin and Pen are going to be on their own journeys this season that fly in the face of what the other is going through. Colin is grappling with newfound romantic feelings for Penelope (while likely struggling to trust them because he thought he loved Marina but lol no he didn’t, so how is he supposed to know???) while also battling against former (and potentially current) impulsive actions… and Penelope is fighting for her LIFE trying to bury her feelings and move on because she’s trying to protect her heart because Colin literally said out loud he’d never want her AND she’s likely thinking of her security. They are both grappling with internal conflicts that oppose the other and THAT is what is going to make the tension and development so good… and that’s without even addressing all the LW stuff that needs to get worked through!

I need y’all to flex that empathy muscle a little and realize that this isn’t about fucking fan-service, or you projecting your own experiences onto these characters (or even the weird self-insert “I am/want to be this character” or “I want to fuck this character”) - you can relate to these characters but ultimately it’s about the STORY - it’s about exploring these characters realistically in how they would react to their own traumas and lived experiences, and how what they think they want/need comes into conflicts with their counterparts.

This is a romantic DRAMA, and these characters are going to have their ups and downs… and it’s a Shondaland drama for better or worse, so you KNOW it’s going to get messy (good lord just look at S2 and how far that “love” triangle went… I’m hopeful for the new show runner because she’s a fan).

Polin will be canon because they unreservedly CHOOSE the other and it will be glorious, so everybody chill the fuck out and stop shitting on my imperfect, emotionally fragile yet beautifully relatable, evolving lovers. They are the BEST fucking ship, but most of this fandom doesn’t deserve them tbh. They’re both messes in their own ways, and honestly? If they were real, neither Colin nor Penelope would tolerate this slander y’all are throwing at the other.

LEAVE COLIN AND PENELOPE ALONE AND LET THEM MUDDLE THEIR WAY TO TRUE LOVE. 🤬

[juniette13]

Can you explain your reasons for not liking Scaramouche's redemption? I'm also not a huge fan of how he was written.

Of course!

One of my biggest reasons is it comes off to me as if Genshin is too scared to make characters who are blatantly evil and against the traveler playable

Which to me…honestly I don’t understand their mentality with it

IMO I think it’s perfectly fine to have characters who are evil and/or against the traveler to be playable! It brings a contrast, a flavor of sorts to the playable cast of characters

I was hesitant at first to say Genshin was too scared to make morally questionable/wrong characters playable, but considering La Signora’s dead, Ei’s EGREGIOUS redemption arc, and Scara’s redemption arc, I’m seeing a very blatant trend here, one I’m not a fan of

Now I know Arlecchino got released and is playable, I, however, stopped playing the game awhile back, I honestly don’t even feel like returning to it because all the content is wearing me out, along with the writing decisions and how I personally think the writing is just getting extremely convoluted, so I can’t really speak on Arlecchino’s matter because honestly I don’t know if her personality was watered down or not

My biggest issue is I feel like the redemption arc not only butchers what could’ve been a great character, I remember the days of when Scaramouche was just an asshole and that’s all he was, just an evil person, and not when he was some uwu little guy who does nothing wrong, but the arc also honestly ignores all the things Scaramouche has done and would rather pin the blame on other characters Like traveler why on Earth are you teaming up with the guy who killed Teppei??? You know, the NPC that died in the Inazuma arc, the NPC who’s death enraged the traveler so much that the traveler just ran headfirst into a dangerous situation without a second thoug-Ohhhhh right his death was just for shock value and doesn’t really hold any weight on the traveler! Right!

Scaramouche was also responsible for getting La Signora killed, however this is never addressed and just swept under the rug It’s writing decisions like that that just makes me so frustrated

I think it would’ve been fun if Scaramouche was just some blatantly evil guy, not every character needs some sob story, a whole plot point where they just whine and whine, and then some half-baked redemption arc where now he’s completely woobified and just an entirely diff character, minus the sass

Like he’s just sassy now, he’s not even mean anymore 💀

It disappoints me because there was so much potential to him and I would’ve been perfectly fine with him just being plain evil, I’m at that point where Dottore, a character who is just straight up evil, has no reason behind it, has no remorse for his actions, is a breath of fresh air and the only harbinger I enjoy because of that I do hope Pantalone also just ends up being a blatantly evil character, albeit not as extra as Dottore, and it would be fun if he monologued like Bedman from Guilty Gear XRD (I might even draw him to some of the monologues LOL)

But anyway yeah, just to sum everything all up in short bullet points

-Characters doing heinous things and then turning around, spewing a sob story, and becoming completely watered down woobified versions of themselves is overdone and tired in Genshin

-Scaramouche would’ve been great if he just stayed as an evil character, not every character needs to be morally in the right or on the traveler’s side, let the traveler have more significant enemies instead of nameless NPC #928291 ISTG 😭

-Scaramouche’s redemption was not earned

I know people are going to disagree with me, that’s fine, just make sure to keep it civil if/when interacting with my post

Anyways thanks for the ask! I can also do a post on Ei’s botched arc if needed or anything of the sorts, I like ranting about this stuff!

[acourtofthought]

I know there’s been hints that SJM is most likely gonna be telling Az/Gwen’s story next. But is it weird that I hope she does Elain first. Lol you know tell all the sisters stories first. But it’s also because I don’t think I handle another book of Elucien being awkward around each other 😭

I think it would make sense for her to close out the Archeron sister's "saga" before moving on to other side characters but....I realize Sarah will write where the wind takes her.

I will just never understand the argument that Elain hasn't been set up enough to have her own book. Sarah is on record years ago as saying she's always wanted to write a book for the sisters followed by confirmation that back in 2015 / 2016 she knew early on where she wanted Elain's story to go which allowed her to plant crumbs for her story as far back as ACOMAF. She then said she KNEW who the first two spin-offs were about but was leaving the third open and considering something set in the past. In the Live Talks LA with Eva Chen in 2021 she spoke about the crumbs that were also in SF for Elain's journey. Just because she then began talking about the crumbs she laid for Az in the bonus chapter and how she wanted to further explore his character it doesn't erase that Elain's crumbs were already in the series well before that, it didn't suddenly mean that it was an absolute certainty that she decided to put aside Elain's story for Az's especially not when she said her initial plans for the spin-offs didn't change, the world just expanded.

Az is connected to the Illyrians and time travel (though we don't have a solid plot for that just yet since there was nothing left to resolve in terms of time travel by the end of HOFAS) but Elain, back in ACOWAR was connected to Koschei and Vassa (problems that have been waiting for a resolution for books now, things we were reminded of in the novella). Then in SF she was connected to the Spring Court which has been a problem for the IC because of Tamlin and it's weakened state. Feyre said "let's help one sister before helping the other", Elain began standing up for herself saying that nobody can tell her what she can and can't do and declared she'd do whatever was needed for Rhys and Feyre. She's connected to Lucien who is connected to Beron, Tamlin, the humans, all things that have plots directly connected to them. I'm not sure how Elain could be set up anymore honestly and I'm not sure why you'd want her to be further set up in a Gwynriel book. It's also not just Elain's book, it's Lucien's and the two of them combined are the most setup pairing of the entire series, even more than Nessian was.

But I agree, there's nowhere for the Elain / Lucien bond to go but resolution at this point. We're not going to see Elain break her silence towards Lucien until we have her POV so another book where we have everyone commenting "there's Elain ignoring Lucien again" would feel ridiculous. I also think it's important for Elain's arc and her HEA with Lucien for her to not default to him simply because he's the last man standing in her vicinity. The plot surrounding her has been her struggle with fate versus choice and to have her end up with Lucien because the rest of the IC got paired off seems a strange direction for her story to take. I also don't think it feels right (I know it's silly to base your theory on a gut feeling but there it is) to have Az throw a tantrum about not having a bond in SF, act like a tool towards Lucien and then end up happily mated in the next book. I think his romance arc could use a bit of cooking time to make it feel a bit more well earned whereas Lucien's character has suffered and suffered and suffered. At some point, it's really too much to put one character through what she has Lucien without him getting his HEA.

[goldentigerfestival]

Part 4 of the Vesperia differences between JP and the dub!

Part 1.

Part 2.

Part 3.

(Other) GTF Favorites.

As a heads up, I had to piece several images here as "one" image to circumvent the image limit because I was not about to make a part five by the time I got toward the end LOL.

For some reason the dub completely removed Alexei jokingly/sarcastically saying it makes his heart hurt (brings him down in this tl) how Estelle will come to her senses and see what she's done to her friends. As usual, the dub has a very weird habit of adding sentences where they never existed and completely removing sentences for no literally no reason.

I feel that "set you free" can also have the implication of saving her alive (which the dub heavily seems to lean toward versus wording that really shows Yuri's resolve here, the latter of which fits right in with Flynn and Ioder's acceptance that he may have to kill her), so I included this one to go with the previous case of Flynn mentioning that Yuri's group was going to "save" Estelle. The original is more ambiguous about her possible survival, but the dub leans more into being ambiguous in a way that doesn't lean toward her dying.

The dub changed this to nothing but literally "aye" so... do with that what you will.

Another case of them randomly wiping out an entire sentence (the last one).

As with other cases, there are some slight changes I don't feel are worth mentioning and often tend to be just slight changes in word choice that ultimately mean close to the same thing. This is generally the case for most of the spirit gathering arc. The overall tl of this arc is pretty much accurate, just with some odd cases like the above.

I really don't wanna say like, it's because Flynn's not around for a chunk of the plot in arc 3, but uh... let's be honest, it's once again as soon as Flynn gets back into the picture that the tl starts to go haywire again - especially where Yuri is concerned. Like. Literally. As usual.

In the dub, this was "but Duke isn't". Just putting this one here because I feel like this gives more of a sense how the characters are feeling about it, more than just him not working out in their favor.

This one was calling Ba'ul "weak" in the dub, but here Yuri is just asking if he's that stubborn about changing his form to a spirit. Putting this here because I feel using "weak" is a lot more harsh and has negative connotations on it compared to a more ignorant "stubborn" before Yuri understands.

Yuri mentions here that Duke seems to have thought a lot about what he's doing. In the dub, this was "he seems totally obsessed". Not sure what the reason for that change was.

Raven makes this more of a question in the dub, but here is more of him realizing it and putting the pieces together, so I figured I'd include this one since it's a slight change in a character's perception of something.

The first line was changed to "could you be any more worthless" (I guess because they thought the "boring" line was weird? idk lol). The second and third line got swapped for some reason, even though it does kind of change the general meaning behind what's being said.

Yuri says first that Sodia gave up, only to tell her she has no right to say it was all for Flynn (thus saying it's because of giving up). At least imo, in the dub it comes across as "you say it's for him but you gave up thus it's an excuse", versus "you have no right to say it's for him".

I'm trying not to say it again, y'all.

Karol says that Yuri going off alone is a bad habit. The dub changed this to "you keep forgetting us", which I'm kind of confused by because he's not forgetting them and literally told them to get ready to go to Tarqaron. Not really sure why they'd change this line since like yeah, it is a bad habit of his lol.

Another translation error in the dub, so this one's here for clarification. The dub says Astal "lost control", but Astal by this point is dead (and he never "lost control"). Judith also says in the dub that it made all the monsters gather here, rather than saying they've gone savage. It seems like they misunderstood something thinking Astal losing control brought all the monsters here, but obviously we know that can't be the case because Astal is dead.

This was changed in the dub to "it's our turn to do Yuri a favor", when he's actually supposed to be teasing him, which Yuri directly replies to.

Still trying not to say it.

Dub Karol sounds more like he's prepared to go in, but in the original audio, Karol sounds nervous about the hoard they're about to have to get involved with. Raven's line was changed to Flynn looking like he needs help and not that so much that he's cornered, and the original audio has him sounding more urgent about it. Minor changes here, but tonally I think they impact the scene differently (and definitely give more of a "this is really fuckin' dangerous" vibe in the original audio).

Another slight change and not an important one, but figured I'd include this since it has a slightly different meaning/vibe to it.

Including this just for Yuri's little laugh when he shows up (I love him! A Yuri Lowell!) and Flynn's shocked response. More tonal in change, but definitely worth a listen and will be linked below with Flynn's laugh!

This can also be translated as "it's simple/it will be simple", because it's "me and you" doing it. Imo this makes it more clear he's referring to just them (i.e. the upcoming fight) and not the entire group, but Yuri also specifically specifies "you and me", so it's much more clear that he's referring only to them (which I think, also given Yuri's levity in this situation despite the danger, shows how much they've completely come back from and recovered from the Nordopolica/Alexei stuff). Shoutout to Yuri deciding this on the spot and totally not even planning it though.

Again, there are some wording choice changes littered around, but nothing really significant (when I say small things, I mean things like Rita saying it's reckless for just the two of them to deal with this, versus the dub using "are you stupid?!". It basically changes nothing even if it is technically a difference, but I usually skip things like that because these posts would be even longer for changes that don't have a large impact).

As for the Yuri-Flynn-Repede battle, there were some... choice dialogue changes here.

Firstly, Yuri actually tells Flynn to be careful (rare carefulness from him, especially in regard to someone he knows can handle fighting).

Second, Flynn telling him not to worry was removed entirely.

Third, (this one is more difficult for me to completely discern because of the lack of text) Flynn mentions (you too, i.e. you be careful too) if Yuri keeps looking over (at him), that he won't be able to run to save Yuri fast enough (i.e. he'll get into trouble if he keeps staring at him).

Fourth, the dub changed Yuri saying he's just captivated by how handsome/good looking Flynn is (and I shit you not if Judith said that to Yuri people would call it flirting so yes, I am going to tell you that the dub censored men flirting here). The original wording used is "ii otoko", i.e. good/nice looking man, which in translation could come across a bit awkwardly and would be more likely to officially be translated to "handsome"... if they weren't so spooked at the idea of it and had to wipe it for "the great Flynn Scifo" which is not actually what was said. Personally I'd say "nice looking man" has a very specific ring to it versus handsome, but again, obviously that might sound a bit odd in translation without really specific wording (as in, it's possible to be used in a way that doesn't sound awkward but the wording leading up to it would probably have to be changed a little, or some words simply added in to make it flow more native-sounding).

Fifth, Flynn said it's not the time to be making jokes (the dub changed this to just "sh-shut up!").

Sixth, the goofy, playful tone Yuri carries when he says "I am being serious" was changed (very typical of the dub at this point though to remove his playfulness and I'm literally saying that objectively). Similarly, his following line's tone was also changed.

Seventh, "so we're kind of stuck". Yuri says he can't concentrate without talking, then ends (the battle conversation) with a following sentence of "it can't be helped!".

This could be translated in a few ways just to make it more clear what he's referring to (because a plain ol' "it can't be helped" is a bit too vague here), but you could translate that to something like "guess we can't help it", yadda yadda. My guess is that's where "we're kind of stuck" came from, but given the blatant trajectory change of the entire conversation, I'm not surprised I'm left feeling like the meaning of that line is just weird (primarily because he says that and the conversation abruptly ends, so they're not very stuck if Flynn won that one!) Something like "guess we can't help it/that's just how we are" etc imo would have done the job for translating that.

Flynn just sounds so, so happy and soft and my heart is full. Same dialogue in the dub, but the original audio was (imo much?) more lighthearted and so sweet and soft.

Made a clip of both their laughs because they're adorable and I love them.

No idea why the dub actually dropped her giving Yuri a whole ass honorific. Yeah, you can't always use JP suffixes in a dubbed game, but you can translate some of them to the closest thing they mean. Sodia here calls him "Yuri-...dono...", so rather than just dropping his last name in her accusatory tone, she calls him by only his first name and attaches a respectful term to his name.

Technically "dono" would mean "lord" or "master" in a non nobility manner, and is more of a formality than if she were to use, say, -san, which would have her referring to him as more of a regular/casual equal (-san is a suffix that often gets lost in translation, whereas dono can actually be roughly translated like it is here from this translator. Someone of her rank would still refer to others even equal to her rank as "sir" in translation, while people who use "dono" may also still use that term for people of their rank. Remember, at this point she's the second in command to the Commandant himself, so that's an awfully high bar for Yuri to have jumped in her eyes). Sodia has realized his actions have been just and honest and that she was very wrong about him, so as an indicator that she's changing her stance on him, she refers to him this way instead.

Basically, coming from someone of her rank, it's a very respectful term and is not used casually/in a casual relationship, much less to someone one dislikes or even hates (which she previously did, so this by itself is a massive step up in her view of him just from her suffix usage alone).

Honestly a huge shame that they didn't even translate this to "sir" in the dub when there was no reason not to. Just using that alone would have indicated a much higher level of respect from her toward him, and unfortunately that open respect is completely lost to dub only players (she only expresses her guilt, whereas in the original, just by using "dono" alone, she's indicated respect and not just guilt. In a way you could even argue that she's approaching him, someone she gives her respect to now, for advice and not just out of guilt alone).

In the dub this is only "it would have been easier if you'd blame me for this..." Here she's admitting she wants some form of punishment by way of saying she didn't receive it (which she could have from Yuri himself if he told Flynn what she did), but if she can't even have that, she at least would rather be hated. Basically, she's saying she wants to be hated if she can't at least be punished for her crime (and I believe you could also translate this to wishing she could be hated if she wasn't blamed for it, so basically they removed half the statement).

Also, in general, Sodia sounds very distraught.

Here Yuri admits he does have a grudge against her (you could translate this to something like "it's not like I don't hold a grudge against you"). The dub changed this to "don't think I'm doing this for your own good". Basically the dub is having him say he's making her live with her regret without mentioning that yes, he does in fact have a grudge against her for what she did.

The translation here is essentially the same (think about it for yourself. The dub just uses "go figure it out yourself").

The important part here comes in the form of how he refers to her. This is something he's done since he survived her stabbing him - not using a neutral form of "you" but instead openly using a rude form (in JP there are several ways of referring to oneself and others, similar to how Flynn alternates between boku and watashi when referring to himself).

In other words, Yuri is openly expressing disdain for her by using "teme". At this point he's been using it for a little while now (he also talks to her this way back in Nor at the inn as well. Worth noting that he starts out by using "omae" (neutral), but as soon as she drops the "I did it for Captain Flynn's sake", he hops to "teme" in a heartbeat, because of saying it was for Flynn but having just given up on him. Yuri continues using "teme" from that point on), but since here it's with very other little dialogue and also because she just recently referred to him as "Yuri-dono", I think it's a perfect time to point it out, as they've openly, verbally switched how they treat each other.

Sodia, wracked with guilt and left unresolved, has a newfound respect for Yuri after their interaction at Nor (and presumably everything he's done for Flynn). Yuri, still angry at her for what she did and holding a grudge (a fact lost in the dub that he mentions in this scene as mentioned above, adding to this role reversal), now openly chastises her and expresses his contempt by changing how he refers to her.

NEXT!

Not gonna put a picture here for it, but when Rita asks Witcher where his notes are, she gets super excited and it's just cute and funny.

Also not putting a picture here for this one, but Flynn sounds extremely relaxed/calm/casual in JP when he asks if Yuri is all set/ready to talk. Something worth noting is that even at this point, the dub keeps Flynn sounding very uptight and serious where he otherwise is relaxed, calm or even emotional. I get the feeling the dub kind of missed the mark with Flynn's soft gentle side. I don't know how or why, but it's more absent in the dub where he's otherwise much more soft.

Similarly, not pictured because this isn't about the translation, Flynn trying to convince Yuri to tell everyone what he's done is given in a more angry-upset tone, versus the original's (super!) soft and sad tone. Again, I think they had a different perception of Flynn in mind when it comes to audio (particularly in arc 3 here because the other arcs are... again, their own whole can of worms), because here he's speaking sadly that Yuri won't take credit, whereas in the dub it's more energy-fueled and comes off much harsher. I have a video clip of that scene here. I felt like mentioning it here because overall Flynn can be extremely soft and gentle in tone and it got lost in the dub for whatever the reason was.

Still on that train of thought, while the translation itself is still pretty accurate, Flynn says "I'll just yell at you again" but in JP says that he'll just say unnecessary words. Earlier, in the dub Yuri asks why he's so serious when he doesn't actually mention that he's being serious in the original (because honestly, he wasn't. He was very calm when they set out). In this case it's not really negative (the way Yuri yelling at people in the dub is portrayed negatively on their end), it's just... a change that I can only guess they had the wrong idea about with him? Previously the changes with Flynn were treating him negatively, but here it's more just... a notable but narratively generally neutral tone difference.

Not making a clip just for this unless it's requested, but when Yuri wins the solo fight against Flynn, in the original, Yuri says it with actual shock but awareness/clarity that it actually happened (with a sort of underlying excited vibe to it). In the dub Yuri says it with more of a laugh and disbelief.

As for this point onward, since the subbed playthrough ended before this point, I'll be using another playthrough for images, though I'll be translating them here instead since they won't be pre-translated.

Sliiightly different vibe here so I figured I'd include it (doesn't really change anything): Here Flynn says "Even with a sword... I lost." The reason I'm including it is because "I can't even win with a sword anymore" makes it sound like Flynn has been losing again and again to Yuri in various ways when it's always been the opposite. Using a sword has always been one of his highest selling points, so to lose in that area comes across more as, even with my best asset I still lost to you.

Yuri's line is more like, "(laughs) Serves you right."

Running out of images I can use for this post here but I really don't want to make another part at this point in the game, but Flynn's following line is more along the lines of "be proud of yourself" (literally "raise your arms (in victory/pride)"), to which Yuri says the same thing in both versions (Flynn's dub line is "you've gotten better"). Including this because "you've gotten better" to me isn't really the same as telling Yuri to be proud of himself for the victory (something he'd never been able to do before). Since the dub came across as much more casual, I figured I'd add this part here too.

During Flynn and Patty's conversation, Flynn says "it's true there is no end to my worries." In the dub this was, "I have no want for trouble". This was probably a mix up of terms/intended meaning honestly, because Patty was basically saying he has a lot of burdens for being so young. It's not about trouble so much as he just has a lot on his mind and a lot to worry about in his current position.

Flynn proceeds to say he's made up his mind, basically saying he's made up his mind to accept those worries. In the dub, he says he's prepared to face it (the troubles), versus that he's made up his mind in accepting these new worries.

Patty's response is "made up your mind?" In the dub it's just "is that right?"

Flynn continues by saying in the end he'll have to worry a lot (more literally with all his might, so basically he'll be experiencing a whole lot of worries in the future) and that it will be a tough road, but he won't run away anymore.

I'm not sure why the dub used "path full of pain" since that sounds a lot more dramatic than "it will be a tough road". I imagine yeah, there will be pain in the future, but full of pain just sounds a bit... much? The dub also removed "anymore" from "won't run away anymore". Not sure what the idea behind that was.

Patty follows up saying it's admirable but that's no good, which the dub changed to a fish pun.

I'd also like to mention at this point, Flynn has completely dropped his use of "watashi" in favor of "boku" (he uses boku normally, but typically switched to watashi for formality/his status as a knight, which indicates he no longer feels the need to do this around Yuri's friends, and possibly does not feel the same level of distance he used to. At the very least it means he's allowing himself to be more of himself/more familiar and not viewing his position as a knight so formally).

Here Flynn says "thinking together, worrying together, and then one day realizing the world we dreamed of". Adding this since Flynn in the dub says "if we all work through our troubles together". It's kind of the same thing and kind of not, since in the original Flynn isn't mentioning "troubles" between anyone - simply the idea of everyone doing this together (the rest is basically the same in the dub).

Another change I'm not sure what it was for, but Ioder never mentions the Entelexeia specifically. He says this (what he's about to say) concerns the empire, guilds and everyone who lives in the world (which would include the Entelexeia by default, but literally everyone else too, which is the point because he's about to tell them about the blastia to start making plans). The dub never mentions about this affecting everyone in the world despite that being the whole reason he wants to talk to everyone about this.

Yuri calls Duke an "ignorant fool" here, rather than a "stubborn bastard", which I'm including because "ignorant" and "stubborn" aren't the same thing. Yes, Duke is stubborn about it, but in Yuri's eyes he's also being very ignorant of everything they're trying to tell him.

Not grabbing an image for this, but at the end of the game when Yuri is talking to Duke right after the battle, he's completely out of breath before and when he starts talking (the first line). Just a very nice touch!

In the dub Duke says Eluficer's wish was simply to protect the world and all living things. Here Duke says his wish is to protect the world and all living things with a good heart.

Also don't want to use an image here because of the image limit per post (especially because it's already tight even with me putting what images I can into "one" image as it is), but Yuri says "yeah, let's do it" (including the others), versus "I'm on it" in the dub at Flynn's prompting. Not a big change, but he does treat it as the whole group doing it together, which I find to be a nice touch for his character development.

Patty actually says "it- it stopped?!" The dub goofed and wrote "it's- it's over?!". The power of the blastia wasn't enough and its power was weakening.

Estelle says "No way, after we've come this far!". The dub changed this for some reason to "but how? There isn't any more!" in response to Rita instead of leaving it as it was.

Judith says "Please!" The dub used "It's gotta work!"

Flynn says "It's not over yet!" For some reason the dub used "This can't be how it ends!", which... idk, I feel like original Flynn has much more faith in it LOL.

Yuri says "Is it no good...?" Dub Yuri says "Dammit... come on!"

For the most part the rest is the same.

Adding this in because the old cutscene in the 360 version had to get changed to accommodate where Flynn was. Somewhat different than what we see with the other characters, you can see the power shoot out and push Flynn back as if it was grabbing the blastia itself, and you can see it pulled away from him (with everyone else we just see the blastia head toward the rest!).

Aside from that, Flynn says "you are my pride, dear friend" (the dub changed this to "I am so proud to call you my friend, Yuri Lowell").

The voice acting took me out with the happiness portrayed in Flynn's voice. (For just the Flynn part of the ending, I have a clip of that too, unsurprisingly.)

----------

Personal ending notes:

To sum it up briefly: I personally see a strong inserted bias put into the localization instead of just keeping things the way they were (i.e. changing context/character behavior to fit their bias despite that not being what the original context was, and inserting this into an official release). I say this because there are times when the translation is basically perfect, but there are very specific characters and instances where this suddenly changes, and unfortunately, there's a repetitive pattern that to me reads as intentional. Otherwise, I see no need for that to continuously happen only when select characters are involved.

As for the not so short version, y'all might be wondering why I mention things like it seems like they changed Yuri and berated Flynn so much on purpose. This is because the translation of this game sometimes can be astoundingly spot on. Perfect in some cases, even. There are times when the largest difference is just the wording itself and is simply given flavor, or uses a variety of wording so that sentences don't sound repetitive.

Yet when it comes to those two (individually but also between the two of them), the context quickly devolves into being either completely changed, the tones used are completely changed, and/or there's a slight alteration in the text that ends up giving a very particular notion that was not otherwise there (ex. "like a good knight" was added into Flynn's dialogue in a situation where he's being berated and yelled at, and it completely comes across as putting Flynn down the entire way through the conversation, versus him coming around and taking responsibility and that being accepted. In the original he simply mentions following his orders as a knight. There's no attempt to sound like the narrative itself is trying to insult him or bring him down).

I made these posts precisely because a heavy majority of the changed context involved them, and a lot of it either portrays Flynn in a negative light for the vast majority of the game which was not originally present, or it made Yuri come across as a much darker, scarier, "cool" type, which is a pretty stark contrast to his original personality/behavior.

Other things:

Yuri:

A lot of his lines come out neutral/flat, and that got even worse, like a hundred times worse, in his new DE lines. Yuri is pretty peppy in JP, and as a reference I would say his victory quotes are a big indicator of the personality shift ("cool" guy versus "silly" guy would be a big one for me). Other than that, Yuri is more silly and almost childish, sometimes even pretty pouty, and it shows blatantly right in his voice. He's also extremely not threatening to people who are not his enemy (liiike threatening Ioder with a real weapon with a serious voice).

I think the easiest way to explain this from my own perspective is that I adore JP Yuri completely. Dub Yuri I often find myself wanting to punch in the face for how he treats Flynn, Ioder and the one time, Leblanc. He lacks compassion in the dub where he otherwise does have it (even if it's not him being rude vocally/tonally, the dub dropped a load of emotional nuance in his voice). He's not a rough, overly cool edgy man (I hate people saying Yuri is an edgelord because damn if that ain't the farthest thing from the truth in JP, but it also shows how much they really leaned into that trope in the dub if people actually walked out of the game feeling that way about Yuri). He's a silly, goofy, caring man who is very gentle with people when they need a boost. That doesn't mean he doesn't have his "scary" dark moments, but the dub obviously leaned super far into it - enough that they would change Yuri mentioning punching someone to outright threatening to use a weapon against an unarmed man who is actually being quite polite.

Basically, he has a range of emotions and he has a lot of emotional intelligence. As one example, when he sees Karol down and sad when they first meet, he changes his tone to a combination of how you'd talk to a child with that child-y tone (he does this at the base of Halure's tree when he's asking Karol how to heal the tree), but then sometimes he shifts to actual gentle and soft to let Karol know he's there for him (when he's heading out to the woods to find the eggbear).

Ultimately, my point is that they took a perfectly well rounded character and changed him to, what? Fit their own bias/agenda/whatever? Because I can't look at both Yuris and be like "same person". I've never wanted to punch JP Yuri in the face. Only hugs here. What I'm saying is that I came out of both versions with two very different opinions on Yuri.

Next, Flynn (and Ioder and Leblanc).

Starting with Flynn, I get a very strong mindset of anti government shoved into the dub with these characters (i.e. not just the unnamed bad people in the government and the few named bad ones, but also directed toward the good ones, making it a more black and white approach). The dub makes Yuri out to be aggressive toward Flynn on the spot when they see each other again despite that in the original audio, he's not at all actually upset. He understands why Flynn is upset and that he's stressed out with his current mission. And no, the whole "Flynn swung a sword at him!" doesn't work here. Yuri knows Flynn. Very, very well. He reeeeally was not mad about that... especially if, you know, his tone in JP was anything to go by during and after. Flynn was the more upset one between the two, and Yuri remains calm - again, indicating his emotional intelligence and, most likely as it's not directly said, determining that being worked up about it would only cause Flynn more aggravation/stress. Thus, he doesn't press any buttons and remains calm. It makes his smile to Flynn later at Torim make that much more sense.

The thing is, I get the impression the dub wanted us rooting for Yuri and cheering for him digging into Flynn, when that was literally not the point of their interactions. We're not supposed to always blindly follow Yuri. Sometimes he is right, but sometimes Flynn is right. Like. That's it. That's the game. Not everything is simple or black and white. There's nuance.

That and/or like, someone in the loc team really hated Flynn. Based on everything, I'm... not against believing that at this point. Basically, the dub portrays Flynn in a negative light at most (arguably all) possible opportunities around every turn, even though the context/tone for that did not originally exist, until it couldn't anymore (i.e. he was past his character arc).

Ioder and Leblanc.

Ioder never does anything except keep Yuri in the loop, tell him important information and be genuinely happy to see him. There was never any vitriol between them. The way dub Yuri gives him an attitude just comes out of nowhere. Their relationship is pretty casual, which is pretty meaningful given that Ioder is on track to be on the emperor and Yuri is, plain and simple, a commoner. One who rescued Ioder, yes, but if Ioder was a "typical" noble in this game, he might have just brushed that off as "to be expected", even if Yuri didn't know he was saving a noble at first. Point being, Ioder is nothing but pleasant toward Yuri. Yuri has no reason to be rude, much less threaten him.

At Baction, JP Yuri is understanding that Leblanc needs to grieve and is in disbelief. He doesn't know if Leblanc will try to stop them, but he does offer his condolences with the tone of his voice, i.e. again: emotional intelligence. Something they changed in the dub to be nothing but rudeness and anger. Yuri made a statement to him at that moment, i.e. not to get in their way (mind you, again, he's polite about it given the situation), but not without understanding in his tone, which is a very common aspect of Yuri in his entirety. His wording (in general, not strictly with this specific scene) comes out rough and lacks politeness, but that's made up for in how he speaks to people (either relaxed, casual, gentle, etc).

In other words, the dub pretty much always slaps a point of view bias against these characters and uses Yuri as their proxy for it. Yuri, normally, in the original context, just treats them as human beings with ebb and flow in all of their emotions and situations. Things aren't black and white - humans are complex - and that is not the point of view that I feel we're given by way of dub Yuri. We're given a man who is constantly using anger in his voice toward imperial figures even when it's completely unwarranted, and even when he knows the people in question.

Other Stuff:

Assorted things are different mainly because of the acting, but Raven's goofiness got toned way down and Karol screams much... quieter, I guess you could say. They're both more lively in general though than how they were in the dub, so that's a plus from me too.

Rita is significantly softer with Estelle in JP, and she also is much more noticeably devastated about Raven's "death" and more panicked for Karol at Zopheir. I do love Michelle Ruff's portrayal and don't know that I truly have a preference, but I think a lot of Rita's emotional barrier breaking is truly expressed more in JP.

You know I gotta bring it up: Yuri and Flynn's relationship was kind of a mess in the dub. It gives the impression of Yuri being angry a lot more often than he ever actually is, and gives off the impression that we're supposed to dislike Flynn more than we're supposed to like him. Flynn isn't someone we're supposed to actively dislike, but the portrayal of him as expressed through dub Yuri does not come off as "we're supposed to like or root for this guy", when they're much closer than that in JP.

So yeah. The bulk of this is that Yuri is just not the same person to me between versions. Also, Vesperia has way more content in Japan (drama CDs galore frankly, and Yuri is still insanely popular in Japan and is thus a frequent character alt release in the gacha games and so has tons of voice lines and general story content, there's new merch of him every year because they make merch for the characters that have their voice actors showing up to TalesFes, etc).

There's much more ease in seeing JP Yuri's personality through all of it. I think it may be more difficult for people who don't understand Japanese or any Japanese at all, and that's such a shame to me because all those people get otherwise, without anyone posting about JP Yuri, is this... weird shell of Yuri that I sometimes even hesitate to call a shell because he just feels completely different to me.

Anyway uh I love Yuri (and Flynn) and that was the point of all this, but uh... if you made it this far thank you bunches and I hope people who maybe didn't like Yuri and/or Flynn who only knew the dub will change their perspectives. 🙇‍♀️

Side update:

People have since been saying Troy was partially responsible for dub Yuri's attitude and it's the same information across people- that he had more freedom to do what he wanted with the portrayal. On that note, I feel like I'd heard this before some time back, but I couldn't remember where or if I was remembering wrong... but with this stuff in mind, I guess not. There's also the fact that, as mentioned in a reblog I've done, I've read something where he claimed he was "paying homage" to Toriumi's portrayal (to which he apparently didn't drop Toriumi's name, making me believe he did not even know it, which is honestly disrespectful imo, and I'm hoping that was a matter of the people interviewing him condensing what he said, but I can't be certain).

As I mentioned for this situation, Vesperia was the first Tales game to be released in the west at the same time as the JP release (or in this case very shortly after). Higuchi said the localization team was not in contact with the JP team. This means Troy could not have known what Toriumi's portrayal was and nor was there time to study it, as the game was released in both regions in close proximity. By the time the JP release happened, the acting on the English release would've been long finished.

This would mean Troy lied for PR and tried to make it sound good, possibly aware people would be impressed/appreciative, which is not only a lie, but is honestly an insult imo to Toriumi's work when the portrayals are nothing alike and he's implying he was inspired by Toriumi's work (despite them being nothing alike becoming obvious with audio alone). This also gives people the wrong idea because generally people would want to take that at his word and not immediately think it's not true.

Previously, I was willing to give Troy the benefit of the doubt that he didn't have too much influence on the dub versions' behavior, and that was also the case at the time I made these posts. However, between the interview with him lying about paying homage to a voice actor he apparently can't even name, and that he had influence on the direction of Yuri's tone despite that Yuri's tone already existed, I'm not interested in pretending he had nothing to do with it.

That said, I take back anything I may have said at any point about Troy not being reflected in my criticisms. Yes, I have been told "maybe they didn't have the audio though", and maybe they did. I don't know. But I do know the localization team is still largely at fault (again, regardless of who made the decision, because it wasn't necessarily the translators themselves. This refers to whoever made the decision) here because someone made the knowing decision to outright change Yuri's dialogue (when again, other stuff was accurate. This was intentional). And again, for whatever reason, they weren't in contact with the original team, and yes, Higuchi was pretty bummed about that.

Yes, I recognize this was many years ago and maybe Troy wouldn't do that again. However, in this particular situation, I do need to recognize that he did have some sway in how Yuri behaved in the dub, and I am certainly not happy that he lied about paying homage, which becomes very obvious just with audio alone, but given Higuchi's statement, well... suffice to say I'm not happy with what he did. I could've gotten past him having more freedom with the acting if that wasn't coupled with the homage comment, but... yeah. I personally can't really look past it.

Do I hate the guy? No, and I recognize this was well over a decade ago. I'm just very aggravated that this happened at all and I can't say he didn't have a hand in it because he did.

And before anyone wants to cry "she hates localizations!", no, I don't. There's a reason I point to Graces when I talk about localizations. I appreciate good and faithful localizations. To me, Yuri is not by any means a good or faithful localization. Believe me, I used to have nostalgia goggles on too. They were strong. I used to really love Troy's performance too. Those nostalgia goggles came off when I started to realize, well, everything (this is also not a dunk on the other actors. I have some gripes with Flynn's VA's comments about Flynn, but otherwise, this stuff really doesn't extend to the other actors). There are also very few localizations I get this deep into this sort of thing with, and some I would even defend.

Anyway! Again! For real this time! Thanks for reading! I do honestly appreciate it and your interest!

[thebreakfastgenie]

Wait omg you like DS9 too right?? Ok if I'm not annoying you could I please request Julian Bashir for 1, 12, 22, & 23 please? THANK YOU I'm done now lol

Yes I do!!!! And you are not annoying!

1. Why do you like or dislike this character?

God I just loved him right away. He's so annoying but he cares so much! He's really a good guy he's just kind of obnoxious and it's not really his fault. He's a genius who made one really dumb mistake on a test and will never get over it. He is so good and kind and loving and moral and he never shuts up. I relate to him a lot and I just love him. The popular opinion is he's annoying at first but he gets better later but I don't understand this because it was love at first sight for me.

12. What's a headcanon you have for this character?

lol so I hate the augment retcon and fanworks have not redeemed it for me and will not and I prefer to ignore it entirely but I will accept that it happened, but there are certain things I absolutely will not allow to be changed by that retcon. So one of my headcanons is that Julian did not choose a remote posting to conceal his augmentations, he did it for the reason he said in the pilot: frontier medicine. He had a genuine desire to make a difference and felt that would be the place to do it and he was also very naive going in, but he grew a lot and did end up making a difference. My other one is that he did not miss one question on his exam on purpose. Yes, it's a ridiculous thing to mix up. That's a very realistic error. That's why he hasn't gotten over it. It's so relatable and so important to Who He Is to me. I also feel very strongly that augmentation or not, even pre-augmentation in post-retcon canon, he is twice-exceptional. The best way the augment thing works for me is if he was basically a mostly nonverbal twice-exceptional kid and the augmentations made him verbal and also athletic etc.

22. If you're a fic reader, what's something you like in fics when it comes to this character? Something you don't like?

I don't read a ton of DS9 fics but I guess I like fics that focus on his compassion as a doctor. I don't care for too much focus on the augment thing. I actually did have an idea for a storyline involving it myself, so I'm not completely closed off to fics that deal with it, but I'm also not very likely to read those fics because I am just not interested in it. Anything that leans too heavily on the augmentation explaining everything about him I am not interested in. I'm also not really into the parental trauma aspect of it all. I'm much more interested in his arc after he comes to Deep Space 9 and how the war affects him than I am in his backstory.

23. Favorite picture of this character?

I don't have it saved but that one where he's in his tennis outfit and he's just in the silliest pose.

[dilutedapplejuice]

Tw: descriptions of (fictional) abuse, neglect, and complex trauma

I’m rewatching soul eater (finally) and I’m at crona, the traumatized non-binary icon!!! And WOW are they autistic. So I’m making a list about it!

All my examples will be transcriptions (from episode 8) bc Hulu won’t let me screenshot it lol

*spoilers for Crona’s entire character arc*

1) Responding to abuse using very obvious logic

*Ragnarok starts hitting Crona and pulling on their skin*

Crona: That hurts me. It hurts! It hurts! It hurts! Stop moving around like that you’re squeezing me! Don’t poke me! Ow! Stop already. Don’t push my nose! You’re bruising me. Stop it now! I’ve had enough already!

Ragnarok: Now, now, calm down Crona. You’re so scary when you’re stressed out like this.

Ragnarok: If you don’t get it in gear we’re going back to the sleep deprivation again.

Crona: No! Don’t start waking me up every hour again! I don’t like it. The dark circles under my eyes will come back and I don’t know how to deal with the dark circles!

Ragnarok: If you let him hit you with that technique again, I’m gonna stick thumb tacks in your shoes. Got it?

Crona: No! Thumbtacks in my shoes would stick into my feet whenever I tried to walk. It would hurt. I don’t think I could deal with that, really.

*Crona gets hit so hard that cartoony stars and planets start circling their head*

Crona: There are stars and planets floating around me. I don’t think I can handle astronomy right now.

This is a bit hard to explain. Crona is describing things that are somewhat obvious to intuit (of course walking in shoes with thumb tacks on the bottom would hurt). Maybe this is a coping mechanism, to help them feel more grounded and in control. Maybe doing this repetitively is soothing, or compulsive (notice how it’s all the same format? “I don’t know how to deal with this!”).

Maybe they are trying to get Ragnarok to see their perspective so that they stop hurting them. But in that case, it seems somewhat clear that these pleads are not working. It’s almost certain that Crona has been doing this type of appeal consistently, even before they are seen in episode 7. Yet we see at least 3 incidents within 30 minutes of the show where Ragnarok not only chooses to bully Crona, but ignores anything they say (or paints them as overreacting). A different person might use their social cognition skills to intuit that Ragnarok will not listen to any kind of emotional appeal and make some other kind of attempt. Crona doesn’t seem to understand this however. They just keep hitting the same wall.

So not only does Crona not have a natural way of understanding social subtext, but they never had the chance to develop it because they were isolated and abused since childhood! It’s a double whammy.

2) Having specific rules with interacting with other things

Medusa: Crona, why are you taking it so easy? Do something.

Crona: It’s not like the ones before. Those were boys. She’s a girl. I’m no good with girls. What am I supposed to do with her?

Medusa: *laughs* How silly… Kill her of course.

Ragnarok: Wouls you hurry up and attack already you idiot?!

*Crona begins attacking*

Crona: But I’ve never seen a man with a screw sticking out of his head before! I don’t know how I’m supposed to deal with a guy like that.

Ragnarok: You eat him! Swallow his soul!

They are struggling with knowing how to interact with new things- a girl, a man with a screw in his head. Considering how extreme their isolation was, it’s likely that they are nervous and uncertain in the way an abled person might feel around a visibly disabled person, or a white person might feel around someone who is BIPOC. They don’t know what’s appropriate. But with how they’ve been encouraged to kill everyone they interact with, I would say this ain’t a typical response. Many people in their situation would follow the pattern and think “I’ve been told to kill x, x, and x. There’s another person who’s not my master or weapon. I should kill them too.” That’s not too much of a stretch, I’d say.

But the fact that they have a specific rule set to follow and struggle to apply it to new things strikes me as uniquely autistic thought process.

3) Struggling to understand other perspectives

*Maka hits Crona because they run up and attack*

Crona: You’re going to start poking at me also?

Maka: You should know that the hunting of human souls is strictly forbidden!

Crona: She [Medusa] said that it was okay to eat the human souls. I don’t see what’s wrong with it if she said that it was okay.

They just… kind of assume other people already fit into the context of their own world. Crona thinks that they are following the rules perfectly and is confused when other people challenge those rules. If Maka defends herself and hits Crona, she is the strange one because wasn’t Crona doing exactly what Medusa wanted? Why is Maka poking at them too? And why is Maka saying that Medusa is wrong? Medusa said it was okay, so it must be okay!

This is all clearly because Crona was brainwashed. Medusa seems like the only source of truth in Crona’s world because that was how they were raised. That’s literally the only thing they know. They just haven’t grown those skills of empathy to understand how other people might think. This just seems like such a specifically autistic way to be traumatized because of their adherence to the given rules/authority.

4) The way they talk

They just have that autistic accent. Idk if they’ve hit puberty yet, but they sound like a little kid. Slightly whiny, breathy. And that’s trademark autistic.

5) Eye contact

They are almost never looking at people’s faces. This could be trauma, this could be autism. Likely both.

6) Gender

This is kind of a “duh” point, but autistic people are more likely to be trans or gnc, either because they don’t understand intangible concepts or social concepts, struggle to present in a way that conforms with their AGAB, or don’t feel as obligated to follow arbitrary rules just to fit in. Regardless of if Crona is canonically a “boy” or not, they clearly don’t conform- our first intro to then was when they were mistaken for a girl and verbally assaulted. It’s likely a mix of their pink androgynous hair, childish voice, and clothes that makes them seem like this. They also don’t seem too bothered by different pronouns, if they even notice a difference at all.

7) Daydreaming

In the end, we learn that Crona constantly escapes into their own mind where they are on a tiny desert/beach planet, where they are happy and have an imaginary friend (if I remember correctly- I haven’t made it to this part in the show yet). This is also a very autistic trauma response. I wouldn’t be surprised if they had some kind of dissociative disorder like DID or OSDD and their friend just never fronted. And the specific fantasy of having someone who understands and loves you, in a small, controlled environment where you can do repetitive things for however long you want to…. It’s autism baby.

And… that’s a wrap! Thanks for reading!

And yes. This is a silly Tumblr post by an autistic person who doesn’t have any major trauma. I have no hope of understanding the complexities of childhood abuse and brainwashing. There’s no way for me to actually discern whether a fictional character is suffering from being programmed as a living weapon, or if they’re autistic (I mean, many things listed could be a result of Crona completely losing their free thinking ability and being dependent of their master to do all the thinking. Of course, and that’s exactly how Medusa intended it. Trauma does imitate autism in some manners. I just like to make lists). I just like to think that Crona’s psychology is a result of both.

Anyway. Drink some water!

[esther-dot]

I'm almost certain of at least one thing. They won't villainize or take Sansa's crown away from her. If anything, HotD has demonstrated one thing. Hbo/the writers are too afraid of being called misogynists, and despite everything they did with Sansa's storyline in got, they did present her coronation as a triumphant moment. So while I do believe they may play with certain tropes I dislike (Sansa being annoying blah blah blah), I doubt they would ever take her power away from her for the sake of a man, even if that man is Jon Snow. No doubt they would still mess up with a lot of other things tho lol

“I doubt they would ever take her power away from her for the sake of a man, even if that man is Jon Snow”

I agree that they wouldn’t take her crown away, but in s8 they tried to act like Sansa breaking her promise to keep Jon’s parentage a secret was unforgivable while a little mass murder by Dany was bad but... understandable? As in, they never allowed Sansa to explain her actions, they never tried to get the audience to sympathize, but they spent all season trying to paint the woman who came to Westeros specifically to wage war as a victim. Missandei’s death was inserted for the sole purpose of getting people to side with Dany, but they couldn’t grant Sansa a decent length convo to explain any of her reasonable, correct, fears and choices.

They sacrificed Jon on the Dany altar as well, so it’s easy to think this is only a Dany centric issue, not misogynistic thing, but there was no indication that Jon had made a mistake, we didn’t get a good, solid critique of Jon’s choices, and that’s why, for someone like me, the sequel fills me with fear. The sequel wouldn’t be Dany-centric, it would be Jon-centric, and unless set entirely beyond the Wall, Jon would very likely end up in some sort of conflict with Sansa. On the one hand, I love! Their arguments are great tv! On the other, it’s only good if Sansa’s concerns and her side of the issue is given the same weight as Jon’s, and I sincerely doubt they would be.

So, no, I don’t worry they’d take her crown, but I do worry that if it is picking up relatively soon-ish after the end of GoT, they’d focus on Jon’s resentment that Sansa broke her promise and not allow her to point out that he lied to the North about why he bent the knee and that he ignored her warnings and led their men into a massacre. That he broke trust with her before she did with him. I think it would be amazing to dive into their mutual grievances, but there’s like, a 2% chance of that happening unless there’s a jonsa on the writing team. 😂 As you can imagine, I therefore think any new challenges, (grievances the FF have against the Northerners that Jon may take up with Sansa, perhaps?) would present Jon as the self-sacrificing good guy without doing justice to Sansa’s stance.

It isn’t that I need show Jon or Kit to feel one way or another about Sansa, it’s that Sansa was the most coherent character in the later seasons, she had the best ending, not because she ended up in power, but because it fit with the beginning of the story and her arc rather than feeling slapped on/contradictory. Any interactions she might have with Jon in a sequel have the potential to be played the same way her disagreements with Jon in GoT were. She is ultimately correct but the narrative never presents her with the sympathy it does Jon, and that, even if they don’t strip her of a title, undermines her ending (for me).

I also have to say, I love Jon and Sansa as individual characters. My love for them isn’t contingent on a ship. Despite Jon’s failures on s7-8, I still love him, I would still like to see him heal and be happy. I do not like the dismissal of his trauma simply because he is a man. However, the choice to make Jon KitN in s6 and Sansa QitN in s8 means that we are in a pickle. Jon having kids was referenced enough in s7 that some fans still believe Dany was pregnant. Even after they were done teasing Targ restoration, in s8 we have that scene of Jon finding out Gilly is preggers, so again, the idea of Jon having kids was put into the scripts/Kit’s mind. He wants that for Jon. I assume that getting Jon’s happy ending is what this sequel series is about. But, Jon can’t have kids without it being a threat to Sansa unless they are Sansa’s kids too. Even if the show takes place beyond the Wall and his love interest is a FF woman, his children are a threat to Sansa and her kids. I don’t know that they care about that though. The politics became such a joke in the end of GoT, I don’t feel sure that they’d focus on realities beyond Jon’s feelings. Even as a Jonsa, I don’t hate the possibility of Jon finding happiness with a different women (theoretically) because I care about him. What I do hate as a Sansa fan, is that there’s no guarantee they care about or respect her (and her ending) enough to protect it.

Also, I didn’t watch HOTD, but from what I’ve gleaned, the fear of appearing sexist hasn’t kept HBO / the writers from still delivering pretty sexist content. It sounds like they don’t want their female characters to intentionally be evil, but they still don’t mind fridging them or having them be sexually harassed/ abused. IMO, that’s trying to protect themselves, not showing any deeper understanding or care for their female characters. And if anything, it looks to me that they’re more dedicated than ever to whitewashing Targaryens which is a major problem.

Anyway, my disinterest in the sequel doesn’t mean I can’t enjoy other people’s excitement for it and I will continue to engage with/support that, but I don’t trust HBO. It would be lovely to have a great sequel that rights some GoT wrongs, but I don’t think there was a sea change. Kit and Co. could surprise me tho!

[cartyrs]

How do you feel as a CielDoll shipper with recent chapters

this just reminded me that a new chapter is out and i just read it and i'm in the brain dimension. throwing this ask under a readmore bc it got long but it basically just sums up my opinions on the series as a whole rn:

my feelings on kuroshit have been complicated the past few years ngl! more than anything i'm very frustrated with how the story's been paced since the twin reveal, and i've found it very hard to stay engaged as a fan with how slow things are progressing. but that's also not what you asked so i won't rant about that LOL

I have very mixed feelings on this current arc - it's what finally got me back into reading bc DOLL! MY FAVORITE CHARACTER EVER! IS HERE AND I WAS RIGHT THAT SHE'D BE RELEVANT AGAIN!!! I'd really, really like it if Doll lives past this arc and is able to confront Ciel again. I think I might actually drop the series entirely if she dies here because it feels very pointless to me after all these years to bring her back if her whole point was just to [207 spoilers]. I'm really interested to see Ciel's reaction to her rebirth, esp if after coming clean about his true identity that he's able to be honest about the guilt he harbors over killing her. (SINCE YANA PUT DOLL AND JOKER IN THE SAME PANEL AS MADAM RED, CIELS PARENTS, AND R!CIEL IN CH 100, OVER 70 CHAPTERS AFTER NOAHS CIRCUS, ID GO CRAZY IF IT DIDNT MEAN ANYTHING)

I've always seen Doll as being one of if not the most significant character into understanding Ciel - his sympathy for her in Noah's Arc shows that despite how emphatic he is that he's forgone his soul, he does still care about people underneath it all. I'm pretty sure Yana's even said that if circumstances had been different (plot wise and also wealth wise), they could have been really good friends. I think Doll as a foil for Ciel reveals a lot about him - the biggest being her double-identity and reveal, as well as her playful, childish side vs. her cold, killing side (which even then, Doll doesn't want to kill - she just has to. I think deep down, Ciel is the same way). Same with Doll discovering Ciel's brand and having that empathetic moment with him over it, they don't go too deeply on it but Doll's backstory prior to living on the street is that she was abused by her parents and they scarred her face. She knows better than anyone else in the story what that permanent mark of abuse means for Ciel, and that's why she's so sorry she accidentally exposed his brand.

I've never shipped Doll/Ciel in a "canon" sense (like it just wouldn't make that much sense post-doll's "death", she despises him for killing her family, and after knowing what the circus did, she's nothing but a child kidnapper to him, criminal scum that's not worth anything). Their dynamic to me is so much about the "what if things had gone differently?" - which I also apply to Ciel's other friendships, particularly with Soma, Lizzy, and Alois (though season 2 is it's whole own discussion LOL). So much of Ciel's characater arc is about how he was willing to throw his own life and soul away thinking he had nothing after his parent's and r!ciel's deaths, as well as his own disgrace, but kuroshitsuji has shown us time and time again that there are people who deeply love and care about ciel, and if things had been different, if he hadn't sold his soul to the literal devil, he could have lived for them. i love Doll for him in this regard, because she's someone who doesn't know what happened to him. I think a big crux to Ciel's relationship with Lizzy (ignoring the incest aspect because of the period accuracy, but also because of the incest aspect I obviously do not ship them in a romantic sense) is that she knows more than most people about what happened to Ciel and his family, and that humiliates him. Pity and vulnerability humiliate him. This is a huge reason why he can't be honest with Lizzy about what happened - he doesn't want her pity, it only makes his reality that much worse. When he meets Doll, she's a stranger. And despite knowing nothing about him, she worms her way in and tries at every angle to befriend him. Also, given that his betrothal to Lizzy was by force (esp with how he steals her actual fiancees identity lol), I think if Ciel had been able to choose his own partner, he might have chosen someone like Doll.

ANYWAY - that's why I'll be really disappointed if they don't reunite at some point. I have some vague hope, since this is the last of the servant's arcs, maybe we'll get back to Ciel soon and Doll will get the confrontation she deserves. I actually really wasn't expecting [207 spoiler], that changes a lot for the character dynamics in this arc. I unfortunately haven't been a huge fan of Doll's actions in this arc, it feels horrifically out of character for me to believe that after her moral values are laid explicitly clear in circus arc (she feels guilty for kidnapping children and doesnt want to do it, but fears her older siblings retribution and fears Kelvin and feels an obligation to keep her family safe above all else), that she'd be willing to both make connections with the children at this orphanage as well as let them be used to keep her body alive... for what? To kill Ciel? Obviously she was brought back by Undertaker, but I doubt that Undertaker's true intentions are to kill Ciel, given how important the Phantomhives are to him (I think he's probably way more after Sebastian, but that's another thing entirely). So, why did Undertaker bring her back at all? Why is it Snake and Finny that find her, and not Ciel? Her personality once Snake and Finny discover the truth too is just all over the place, I don't particularly buy it.

I've felt that Yana's writing has seemed rushed and lazy since the twin reveal, whether it's her shifting her focus onto TWST, or that she's just trying to wrap up the series as fast as she can, while also still attempting to churn out monthly chapters (if you compare recent kuroshit volumes to old ones, old volumes had maybe 4-5 chapters, while new ones fit about 10 chapters at the same pagecount, so it's also waaay shorter chapters each month that don't quite move the story along). It's obvious to me that now that R!Ciel is out of the bag, the servant chapters have been a way for Yana to finally write plotpoints that she's had on the backburner since early on in the series (Meyrin, Bard, and Snake's backstories) - but IMO, terribly integrated. Finnys backstory in witch-arc is still some of my favorite parts of the series - because the arc itself is incredibly written, and Finny being highlighted fit in so well. It feels like with these mini arcs that Yana's just like oh shit what kind of plot should X servant's backstory come up in, and none of the newer plots/characters have felt deserved (i.e. the maids in meyrin/ran mao's story). Same thing goes for the characters in this arc, the children dressed like the phantomhive servants are just so weird and out of place to me. Why is this a thing??? An orphanage dedicated to making children act like ciel and sebastian and others and then sacrificing them as blood for Doll????? Why???? The whole scenario is weak and far-fetched IMO, I would've rather Doll's reentry (as well as Meyrin/Bard/Snakes backstories) been introduced in a more natural way, it genuinely feels like Yana is throwing all her cards on the table to wrap the series up without any loose strings.

SO, I don't have like, a TON of hope for Ciel and Doll's story to be wrapped up in a way I personally find satisfying for their character arcs, I'm vaguely hopeful that they'll at least just meet again, but as you can read I've had very mixed feelings on the direction that the series has taken for years now (servant backstory arc has been going on since MARCH 2019 LMAO..), so I'm sorry that your very simple question turned into a rant HAHA but this is like, the crux of my relationship with Kuroshitsuji atm.

Kuroshit has had its fair share of problems, many of which I'll be the first person to go out of my way to critique. I've been able to rationalize being a fan by touting just how good the manga's story is. Nowadays, really not so sure I can stand by that opinion! However, Doll's also like... is The character of all time for me. I've even been contemplating getting her tattooed lately LOL. So, regardless of the direction the series takes, even if it just absolutely tanks, she'll always remain incredibly special to me, as will Ciel and all the characters I've loved over the years.

[lemonhemlock]

To add to the children's discourse lol.

I've seen people say that the twins are Aemond's but Maelor is Aegon's and that is why she would choose to get killed because Helaena hates Aegon that much. and I hate that, it doesn't matter who the father is, the kids are Helaena's and she will always try to protect them.

I personally would prefer the kids to be Aegon's (not because I'm a helaegon first, then a helaemond lol) because I think the children being his adds a depth that he's seriously lacking in the show. going insane for the kids he ignored most of their lives, it will be really good to watch and explore. I also don't think Aemond needs to be the father for the "son for a son" to make sense, because in my interpretation, the person wanting to become the monarch (Rhaenyra) lost a son, so the King has to lose one as well. In this angle, it doesn't actually matter who killed Luke, Aegon would have to lose a son anyway.

I also think that Aemond has too much spotlight to steal Aegon's arc as well...because if Aegon knows the kids are his, why would he go on full revenge and hate if he never cared for Helaena anyway? They also didn't show Aegon and Aemond having a good relationship for Aegon to care that much about Aemond's kids.

If he doesn't know, his whole arc will be hollow, because he's the dumb one that thinks the kids are his but surprise...your sister-wife and your brother actually went behind your back and had kids and had this whole full-on romance behind your back.

Don't get me wrong, the kids could be Aemond's especially with them being so young in the show (why, just why?) but that doesn't mean that I have to like it. lol

Rant over lol, would love to hear your thoughts. :)

Hello there! So, I would start by saying that no one is denying helaemond isn't a show-introduced thing. There are no hints at that in the book - again, this doesn't preclude or deny or contradict its existence EITHER, just that we have no reason to believe off the text that the children aren't Aegon's. Ergo, Blood & Cheese was most likely specifically designed with that in mind.

So, from that vantage point, I really don't think paternity has any play in this Sophie's choice, especially since it's Helaena making that specific choice and the children are all hers anyway. There's also a desperate (and understandable) logic that informs her motivation - Maelor is deemed young enough to not understand what is happening to him and that could serve as a small mercy in this context, basically the best out of a horrible situation. That's a lot more reasonable for a mother rather than prioritizing her children based on sperm donor.

As an aside, making helaegon a failed marriage and giving Aegon his downright sociopathic hobbies serves to hinder the plot, rather than further it - this has nothing to do with helaemond, it's just the writers not thinking their decisions through. Like, as things stand, I'm supposed to believe that 1. Aegon doesn't care for Helaena anyway 2. he thinks it's funny watching his own bastard children fight to the death in the rat pits, all the while they plan on selling me the fact that 3. Aegon is somehow gonna be devastated when his legitimate son is killed, a son he never interacted with and never showed any feeling towards, because he is too self-absorbed in his own pursuit of pleasure.

Why does that make more sense? It's all a mess anyway, no matter which way you cut it. Obviously, Aegon cared for his children and family in the books, so they're gonna have do some damage control here, otherwise Blood & Cheese is going to logically have absolutely no effect on him, which defeats the point of this entire exercise (also an observation for those against humanizing Aegon).

The children being his and him caring about them is indeed a very easy and immediate way to humanize his character AND not diminish the horrifying aspect of Blood & Cheese. But so is them not being his? Him being able to care for them as if they were of his own body is also a pretty touching element, if you think about it. Show!version will have to be retconned anyway, whichever option you pick.

B&C was specifically designed by Daemon because it fundamentally stabs at the core of the greens - all siblings are affected by the harm visited on these children. Helaena goes mad with grief, Aegon enacts his bloodthirsty revenge on the city's rat catchers, Aemond starts spiraling - even Daeron sacks an entire city in a rage when Maelor is killed. It's not so outrageous or far-fetched for me to believe that these children could have been very loved no matter who fathered them, by their mother, father and both uncles, in whichever permutations.

I also don't think Aemond needs to be the father for the "son for a son" to make sense, because in my interpretation, the person wanting to become the monarch (Rhaenyra) lost a son, so the King has to lose one as well. In this angle, it doesn't actually matter who killed Luke, Aegon would have to lose a son anyway.

That's certainly Daemon's reasoning, but it doesn't mean that he is being even steven about this. Retributive justice in no way involves taking the life of another innocent person who had absolutely nothing to do with the crime in the first place. Even if Aemond had legitimate sons of his own within a lawful marriage, killing his son for Luke would not amount to retributive justice. Daemon utilises false equivalences here and I need people to stop drinking his kool aid. It is not Rhaenyra and Aemond who are peers here, it is Aemond and Luke.

Aegon had nothing to do with this crime, he did not order it or target Luke specifically and involving him in it simply inflicts harm upon innocent parties; targeting Jaehaerys is also disproportionate to the offense committed - as another user mentioned recently on one of my posts, Jaehaerys is a little boy playing with toys, while Luke is actively contributing to his mother's war effort. These two are not peers or counterparts either.

The harming of innocents and proportionality to the crime are two principles of retributive justice that Daemon actively breaks in the pursuit of his sadistic revenge.

If there is ever any doubt, one can always pick up a copy of the Old Testament.

Exodus 21:12-14. He that smiteth a man, so that he die, shall be surely put to death.

Lo and behold, the punishment for murder is the death of the murderer. Nothing whatsoever about killing the murderer's nephew or the murderer's son.

[suchine-toki]

I read your post on why you think utsuro is a poorly written antagonist and while you’ve made some criticism some good others ehh I understand that not every villain can be johan libert or Griffith and I think utsuro is a solid antagonist

That being said….

While I do utsuro is a solid antagonist I would be lying if I said I didn’t think he was the best one in fact I can think of four antagonists in this series who I feel are better than him(takasugi kamui oboro sasaki) I’m writing or appeal and while I did find the finale satisfying I would be lying if I said I did think there was more to be done but that’s me how do you feel about this(comment not ending you’ve made your stance clear)

Hello! First of all thank you for taking your time to read that post and write me this message 🤗 I know some points weren’t clear enough because I usually prioritize getting to the point over thoroughness.

I feel like comparing Utsuro to villains from other series could set the bar too high or too low depending on how you look at it, especially since what a villain should be depends on the story being told. Although I admit it can be useful sometimes, so I'll do it to point out a couple of things. But first I want to talk about Utsuro as a villain in Gintama's narrative. Please bear with me, it won’t be short lol

Gintama has had many antagonists throughout the series, with a characterization depending on the role each one of them had. I make this point because I think it’s important to note that an antagonist that excels in one situation may be bad in another and vice versa from a narrative standpoint. From the audience’s point of view, it’s natural to expect something more from someone who’s supposed to be a relevant villain, especially if they’re the last one. 

I could say that Utsuro was a better antagonist than Catherine, for example. But she was never meant to be an important one (or even a recurring character for that matter). So, in this case it's best to compare his character with other Gintama villains. You mention Takasugi, Kamui, Oboro and Sasaki doing a better job at it, and I agree. I would also add other great ones like Itou, Hosen, Jiraia, Jirochou and Sada Sada.

To tell you the truth, I wouldn’t have minded if Utsuro was a comedic villain. Heck, he’s the type of villain Gintama would mock at the beginning. I didn’t address this before, but I find him so cliché… Sorachi tried so hard to make Utsuro look intimidating, but he ended up looking silly, and not in a funny way. Even the anime gave him a soundtrack with an organ that reminded me of vampire movies from the 60's 🤣

I made some points in the original post about how he doesn’t make sense because he ignores the easy solutions in plain sight, but there’s also the issue of how illogical his lack of action is for most of the series. To be precise, there’s a 10-year gap between the “death” of the Shouyo persona and the return of the Utsuro persona, but there isn’t a good reason why we don’t see him act until Farewell Shinsengumi arc.

If we compare him with Takasugi, it’s understandable why the latter takes time: he needs financing, manpower and specific alliances, among other stuff. In the grand scheme of things, Takasugi is just a small fry. But Utsuro already has all those resources, so we have to assume he doesn’t make any moves “just because”.

That’s a problem that comes with being the big bad of the story. Take for example Ozai from ATLA and Voldemort from Harry Potter. Both of those villains are often criticized for their lack of characterization; however, they succeed in a very important aspect in which Utsuro falls short: making their presence felt throughout the story. Ozai does despicable things that impact the entire world and the people close to Aang. Voldemort actively hunts Harry as he carries out his plans. In Utsuro’s case, he simply appeared out of nowhere.

One could argue that since he’s a twist villain he can’t be held to the same standards. This might work in some scenarios, however, with Utsuro this doesn’t happen because there’s no proper build up.

Let’s go back to square one. The surprising element of Utsuro’s reveal was that we knew this character before as Shouyo and thought he was good. However, when said villain isn’t the same character but another personality, the whole concept fails. You need to be able to look back on things and realize all the signs where there from the start for a twist villain to work. It all has to do with expectations. It’s different to have a plot twist you didn’t think would happen, than have one with no basis to even think it could happen, if you know what I mean.

I understand why Sorachi may’ve wanted a different villain than Takasugi to carry this theme of emptiness he wanted to portray, but Utsuro’s character was flawed from the beginning. In that sense, I think Oboro would’ve been an interesting choice as the final villain of the series. For starters, he wasn’t introduced at the last minute, and he checks the boxes of being affiliated to the big evil organizations that are the Tendoshuu and the government, as well as being connected to Gintoki and being the cause of his biggest tragedy. I haven’t given it much thought but wanted to include the idea for the lulz haha

With the comedy parts of Gintama (or any media really) I can turn off my brain and just enjoy it, but if the series wants people to take some parts of the plot seriously, I think it’s normal for there to be more serious criticism. Now, on the more subjective side, Utsuro is my “you killed my friends!” anime moment because he drove away a lot of fans at that time 😂😭

This was broad. If there’s something specific you’d like me to address I’m open to talking about it further!

[sapphire-weapon]

Talking about her writing... the point to me is that the main theme of the series, bioterrorism, is such a heavy and complex issue, so a moraly grey character would require the same complexity as well and i never felt that the writing staff perceived this in the original timeline. is straight up "oh she is in fact a mercenary, but see, she never really gives the samples to the bad guys even thought we dont explain how the fuck she pays her bills like this and never faced the consequences of betraying this psychos", and that's so fucking boring, nonsense and frustating.

So i'm really glad with remake timeline at least trying to develop some nuances over this, and i kind of understand people like the anon of a few days ago because it's so annoying get her stans just ignoring the fact that why the hell there would be a redemption arc setting like this if she didn't made any mistake.

i mean let's be honest here tho, resident evil has literally never treated bioterrorism as a complex issue. it's very black and white in the RE universe. bioterrorism exists so that we can have the main protagonists do cool action guy shit against big monsters.

but ada does give the samples to the bad guys -- at least, on the occasions that she actually gets them. she would have still given the G-virus to wesker, if she'd had it. you'd also have to believe that she's also gotten other shit for him over the years, considering he actually goes back and contracts her again for the plaga even after she fucked up with G. somewhere in the six years in between, ada "redeemed" herself in wesker's eyes and got back into his good graces.

and she did give not one, but two plaga samples to simmons (the one from RE4 and the one from damnation).

the issue is that we don't know why.

we don't know why she worked for wesker for years and years. we don't know why she gave plagas to simmons. it seems a little counterintuitive, since she gives the samples to these fucking guys and then helps leon clean up the mess that's caused after she hands the shit over.

either she's actually legitimately unintelligent and thinks that simmons isn't going to do anything bad with the plagas (which i do not believe is the case), or she thinks that because simmons is the US's NSA that leon will somehow sniff it out and it'll be fine (which he then doesn't actually do, so that begs the question why she continues to rely on him), or she's been in some way acting under duress this entire time (LOL), or she's literally just in it for the money and has a fucked up "i'll deal with it later" mindset.

the correct answer is:

none of the above, because she's literally just a dragon lady stereotype who's there to look sexy and drag leon around by the libido.

it seems like remake is gearing up to turn her into a character that's like... she's been doing this for so long that she just filters it all out as noise and literally has never had any reason to think about what she's doing any deeper than "do job, get paid" until leon inspires a change of heart in her and she snaps back into reality, but by then it's too late.

which is cool. i hope they follow through with that. because her character makes absolutely no sense on its own in OG in a context divorced from leon.

[juniperhillpatient]

u say Zuko’s redemption arc was well written but go on to criticize it so was it really well written or do you just want to believe that?

I mean, no, it was really well written lol

I can only critique Avatar so much because I’ve watched it so many times & put so much thought into it because I love it.

I think it’s fair to say “this thing is really good & well done but there are some valid criticisms of it.”

There are many inconsistencies as far as the buildup to Zuko becoming Fire Lord. It’s not well foreshadowed in my opinion because it’s unclear whether Zuko is supposed to have a destiny or want to make one for himself. It’s like the writers can’t decide & go back & forth without ever coming to a firm conclusion & that frustrates me.

I have also expressed my frustration that Zuko’s jealousy & resentment toward Azula was never addressed as an unhealthy thing nor were we given any hope about a reconciliation arc for the two of them which could have been as easy as a brief visit in the end - a glimmer of hope that Zuko understands he’s not the only one who suffered under Ozai’s parenting. Failing to address this is a pretty big oversight in my opinion because Zuko has been obsessed with his perceived idea of Azula & her perfection & how easily everything comes to her this entire time. Learning that she’s just a hurt kid who can fall apart too should’ve mattered / been part of his arc.

I’ve thought about it a lot & I’m not on Book 3 of my re-watch yet but I’ll ultimately say that there wasn’t time for an Azula redemption arc in the context of the show that we got & it wouldn’t have made sense. I would’ve loved a Book 4 redemption arc for her.

But in terms of critiquing what we DO have, I think it would’ve fixed a lot & specifically fixed a lot of my criticisms of Zuko’s arc to just have like, one scene where Zuko visits Azula in a hospital & they talk & maybe they’re not ready to hug & make nice but we get the idea that Zuko’s perspective on his sister has changed & there is hope. A brief scene like this would’ve really helped to cement his character arc in my opinion & show how much he’s grown from the angry boy in Siege of the North who’s filled with misplaced hate & resentment for his sister, not aware that they’re both in the same unfair position.

But these criticisms don’t mean that I think Zuko’s arc was overall poorly written, no. I’ll never think that because… it’s not true.

I don’t feel like writing a whole long meta post about why Zuko’s redemption arc is well written because like…. it’s been done a hundred times but like… yeah, the main villain of season one changing his mind about his nation’s violent, imperialistic ideals & calling out the abuse he was put through? Going from blindly wanting to capture the Avatar to wanting to help restore balance to the world? I love that arc. Zuko does grow immensely throughout the series & I kinda feel like ignoring that is ignoring a huge aspect of canon (cause it is.) That’s kind of the thing. I’m much better at expressing my criticisms than the things I liked lol - I guess cause there’s more to say & explain as far as how I’d fix things. But I mean, if you can really watch Zuko’s gradual development & internal struggle throughout the whole show & see him stand up to Ozai & go on life changing adventures with the Gaang & you just think he’s poorly written….I don’t know how to argue with that? Like….. that’s certainly AN opinion. Everyone is entitled to their opinions I just don’t know how to argue with that one & it feels so niche & rare outside of Tumblr that it doesn’t even seem worth it. It’s not about whether I or anyone else wants to believe it, it’s just a strong character arc.

TLDR: I think it’s completely reasonable to say I overall liked something but I have a few criticisms.

Also sorry if this came across curt, I really struggle with tone on the internet sometimes but I’m legitimately not trying to be aggressive I’m just trying to share my perspective. Thank you for the ask!

[brw]

Do you not like Tom kings vision series? I havent read the whole thing myself but most people I see say it’s really great so I’m curious why you have mixed feelings

I mean, it's like, fine, if still IMO a fairly mediocre reading experience considering what Tom King's tone is for a lot of his work, if you have very little prior experience with The Vision.

The thing is that King has admitted before to not being able to explain massive characteristion changes and I think it shows a general lack of understanding of the character he was writing. The Vision (2015) isn't actually a Vision story; I think it would have actually worked incredibly well as an Ultron story, but it's not a story written with Vision in mind imo, it feels more like Vision just happened to be the character he was handed and now we have this.

See like, the cornerstone of his Vision series is that Vision wants to assimilate into human culture entirely, and be entirely accepted by them. This to me feels stupid, because like two years ago in Avengers A.I. Vision was a big advocate for treating A.I. as separate but respected people and was very clearly not trying in any way to be human, but in fact was showing a continuation to becoming more inhuman, more machine-like as their own self expression evolved. Cut two years, and now Vision is in a suit trying out the 9 to 5? Like what?

And the choice of Virginia was just strange, because prior to this Vision and Wanda had an extremely tense relationship. In AvX, one of the biggest events of the time, Vision actively tells Wanda to leave after murdering them via She-Hulk and seemed just generally incredibly angry towards her for doing something like that. Like yes this is bad writing, but it's also the literal first issue of that event but suddenly Vision wants to be with Wanda again so bad they will make a robot with the express purpose to only be their wife to be with her? Suddenly all Vision did to argue for their own personhood and their own autonomy, just generally as an android but also as someone with the brainwaves of Simon, doesn't matter because they want a nuclear family and picket fence?

Like the whole thing was just not considered with Vision's character and Vision's history. And I don't expect King to be going through the backlogs of like 90s Marvel Premiere or whatever but Avengers A.I. ended in like 2013. That was a recent comic and a recent point of characterisation where Vision had a major role, but almost no trace of that is there beyond the vague callback when Vision kills Victor Mancha.

It just to me showed a very poor understanding of who Vision was and kind of spits in the face of what Vision stands for in my opinion. Vision has never to me been a story about assimilation, but instead about building your own identity and your own life in the face of hardship and bigotry, of perseverance. Yes, I think Vision maybe during the Englehart era and that one time they tried to take over the world did crave assimilation, but to me the whole arc over the 90s and Busiek and Geoff Johns' Vision and Avengers A.I. was Vision slowly but surely coming to accept themself as they were. And seeing what had felt a very good continuation of stories for like 20, 30 years be ignored is just... puzzling and again shows to me that this story was never supposed to be about Vision, it was about the story Tom King wanted to tell.

Which is fine, but I don't think this stuff then belongs in like a medium where a big chunk of its allure is consistent characterisation built off the collective of hundreds of writers. So reading so many comics and coming to this that clearly doesn't fit and was never supposed to is just. annoying to me. lol.