#i think the fandom this ship has is so wonderful

[bluedalahorse]

I feel like there’s some meaningful stuff here about Sara and August’s relationship, so I wanted to reblog and lift those up here! Sara has traditionally been unfairly slammed by the fandom, even though her actions were meaningfully different from August’s in season 2. And a lot of times saraugust is held up as this ontologically evil foil to wilmon, even though both pairings juxtapose the capacity to be sweet and loving with some pretty intense teenage flaws.

Personally, while I understand why they happen, I’ve always been a little wary of discussions of “is Sara a bad person/is August a bad person.” I understand why this framing works for some fans, but it doesn’t work for me. Mostly because a while back, Omar was talking in an interview, and he talked about Lisa’s writing philosophy being that there aren’t good and bad people in her stories, there are people in her stories who are capable of good and bad actions. Now, authorial intent can only go so far, I get that. But I do think this is a theme that underpins the series. I think they did a great job of showing Sara’s complexity and growth over the season. I do think there were some fumbles to August’s writing in season 3 that led a portion of the audience to believe he never changed, ever, over the course of the series. I think the show would have benefitted from him and Simon having a chance to do restorative work outside of their relationships with Wille. At the same time, I don’t think season 3 was without growth for August. @sflow-er’s post on the Fleabag parallel does a great job of breaking down August’s arc. I’m not saying any of this negates the harm August does—far from it—but I do think the show is inviting us to envision a better future for August where he grows and changes, especially in our fanworks.

And that’s what I want to talk about in this reblog: fanworks. It’s been a long time since people were acknowledging the saraugust nuance in season 2, and ultimately how fascinating the pairing is, but there’s still only 96 fics tagged Sara/August on AO3 and only a few are actually about them.

I think, what I’m sad about most when it comes to Young Royals fandom, is that there is no fanworks community around Sara and August the way there is for wilmon, at least on tumblr. There are individual people who are interested in their dynamic, and some of them create fanworks from time to time, and some of us reach out to one another and have meaningful and wonderful one-on-one conversations in our inboxes. But there’s very few reblog chains about them where people are just expressing fun headcanons, there’s very little circulating fanart, there’s some gifsets and edits but they don’t circulate as frequently, no fandom events or challenges themed around them, no following and cheering on of Malte and Frida’s careers, (to my knowledge) no epic multichapter saraugust fics we discuss together and swoon over and make starry eyes over.

To be clear: I don’t think I’d ever expect saragust to have the same size of following wilmon does. There are many factors that make wilmon more popular, first and foremost being that August does real legitimate harm and is annoying and kind of sucks. Like, hey! I get it! Not everyone is going to like him, and that’s perfectly okay. And then there’s the fact that not everyone who’s drawn to an m/m show is going to feel excited to ship a f/m pairing. As @crownedwille points out, fandoms sure can do some stuff when female characters are involved. Of course saraugust will get smaller numbers.

But as someone who’s been tracking the saraugust breadcrumbs in fandom for a while, and has been following their tag on AO3, what I’m noticing is not exactly a natural absence of interest in the pairing. It’s more like I see a lot of people who have an interest in the characters and the dynamics, but something about the way YR fandom interacts socially reinforces the notion that you keep your saraugust feelings to yourself. Or, for a while if you were expressing those feelings, you were encouraged to express them in ways that are full of apologies and disclaimers. When you’re spending all your time doing that, it becomes a lot harder to create fanworks. Like, even in the tags of this post, I see a lot of people saying they liked them or found them interesting or cute or they’re hooked in by the drama or whatever else! Clearly the enjoyers exist and are out there. I think the discourse (and the harassment of actors/writers/creative team on social media) has died down a lot since the finale and there’s more space to like the characters, but I also think that some of the patterns of fandom interaction that sprung up post-S2 have had a continued impact on how people express themselves.

And yes, it’s important to be mindful of the morally dubious sides of this pairing, but we can do that while creating space for people to openly enjoy it through fic and headcanons and edits and such the way that many people in the fandom openly enjoy wilmon, even if it’s a smaller group of us. (Heck, some people enjoy saraugust because of the moral dubiousness and that is part of a Valid Fandom Tradition of enjoying morally dubious pairings.)

As someone who’s currently feeling a little burned out on wilmon by itself and doesn’t really have a desire to read works centered on them, but who’s still in love with the broader YR world and its characters, especially my two favorite characters—I am desperate for a little bit less saraugust discourse and a little bit more joyous fannishness about them. I’m not entirely sure how to make that happen. I’ve been writing fic, blogging about the characters, creating ask games, posting pictures of the plushies, and also doing some other stuff behind the scenes. But I often don’t post or reblog as much as I could for fear of discourse returning, and I feel disconnected from fandom most of the time, even though I have some strong individual ties to individual people. (I also feel like I may have burned some bridges at times when I was upset.) It’s a bit of a sisyphean conundrum, isn’t it? I wish I could wave a magic wand and make more fanworks and community happen around this pairing in particular, but also around other pairings and characters on the show for the fans who want those other pairings and characters. I just wish there was a little more variety in the characters and pairings talked about.

Anyway, I don’t have any answers and it’s time for me to acquire groceries for the week, so. Blue out.

There's so much discourse around Sara and August. Whether they were good together or not. Whether they loved each other or not.

What we tend to overlook is the fact that they talked to each other. Enough that they knew each other.

He wanted someone to talk to and he thought about her. So he went to find her and he knew to find her in the stables. Then he immediately proved to her that he was someone "safe" by petting her horse. She misunderstood his invitation that evening but he didn't make her feel bad about it. We know she talked to him about the Felice Horse Selling Thing™️ because when she comes to say that Felice was officially selling the horse, he just said "I thought you already knew that" because she had already told him.

Sara talked to August. The same why August talked to Sara. He opened up about the drugs and why he used them. He opened up about being Wilhelm's back up. He opened up about his guilt and about feeling like a horrible person.

She talked to him about her horse and about Felice. Two things that she considers the most important in her life. She also opens up to him about wanting to fit in. Wanting to "be like him" meaning that she wanted to be like the Hillerska crowd.

They talked to each other.

So like, yes, they did horrible things. They are bad people. But they aren’t incapable of caring. And they aren't entirely self centered. That's what makes their individual betrayals even more heartbreaking. Because we know they're capable of caring and they made the choices they did anyway.

[bicth-and-in-that-order]

So lets take a look at CaitVi’s romantic arc this season, or lack thereof:

Act 1:

Vi consoles a grieving Cait -> Cait wants Vi by her side as an enforcer , Vi says “fawk no” -> Vi gets drunk with discount Vander then Maddie comes and tells her Cait has fought for her (offscreen) which she appreciates -> Vi asks Cait to “never change” , Cait says “sure Jan😉” -> Vi and Cait kiss -> Jinx teases Vi abt her relationship with Cait -> Cait goes blind with rage, assaults Vi, then leaves her crying and broken

Act 2:

Cait sleeps with Maddie, looks sad -> Vi spirals into an alcoholic rage in the span of a montage while constantly thinking of Cait -> when Cait and Vi meet again, Cait attacks her and they insult each other-> Vi playfully calls her “cupcake” -> Cait, seemingly moved by this one word, betrays Ambessa and hatches up a plan with Vi -> Vi spits on Cait and she wipes her saliva on her mouth-> Ambessa mentions that Vi’s absence created a hole in Cait’s heart -> Cait checks on Vi during Vander’s attack on the commune

Act 3:

Cait and Vi have a talk abt Jinx, there are a handful of lines with Vi being upset about Cait feeding into Ambessa bullshit, none about what she did to Vi -> Vi confronts Jinx, Jinx seemingly gives Vi her blessing with Cait -> Cait finds Vi trapped in Jinx’s cell where she contemplated suicide -> Vi is upset about Jinx for two lines then Cait flirts with her -> they make out then Cait brings up her fling with Maddie -> Vi dgaf and they briefly have sex in prison while Jinx is doing god knows what

Epilogue:

Cait and Vi are now living together -> Vi claims she is the “dirt” under Cait’s nails and that’s that

In other words:

They kiss -> they fight -> ??? -> they fuck -> they back

If you thought the romance of Caitvi this season felt janky and undercooked, that’s because it was. No time was given to meaningfully explore the emotions between Cait and Vi, how they felt about each other, how their actions affected each other (except in brief montages and brief lines), their love for one another. All of the meat of the relationship was either done off screen, mentioned by other characters, or blink and you miss it microfacial expressions that the fandom seems to think is a replacement for actual character writing. All of this leaves Caitvi with hollow story beats that lack any real buildup thus no satisfying payoff.

I have to wonder, to the people who offer such high praises for Caitvi this season, have they never read/watched a good wlw story? Not even a decent one? Cause this was lackluster at best, a slap in the face at worst. Don’t tell me there wasn’t enough time either because Arcane had the time to devote a whole episode to a het AU ship, Arcane had the time to animate long, heavily romantic coded sequences between Jayce and Viktor, but couldn’t spare a dime for their flagship relationship in the show? What a mess

[violetasteracademic]

Rambling thoughts post. Won't delete.

I learned a long time ago to stop commenting on the state of the ship war/ SJM fandom as a whole and asking people to be kinder, and anyone who has followed me for a while (which sounds silly to say since I've only been here since March) has likely witnessed my slow disillusionment of the SJM fandom space. As my therapist said, if you keep trying to clean up debris in someone's house who refuses to fix their roof, you'll drain yourself for nothing. (That was about my ex husband but hey I think it applies here.) I've also realized that in the long run, individual creators don't matter, really. There are too many creators in this space who burn out and disappear and even if it upsets or disappoints people in the moment, there is always someone to replace them. I'm very replaceable. My thoughts really don't matter. But here they are anyway.

The SJM tumblr space is extremely hostile and negative. But it isn't all hostile and negative, and the more I filter out the shipwar content and anti content (seriously, I have filters on anti elriel, anti gwynriel, anti elucien, and shipwar buzzwords like delusional, reading comprehension, touch grass, ECT and thank you to my dear friend @yourstarsmyscars for showing me how much more the filters can do than I realized!) the more free I am to see how many kind and wonderful creators there are on here making cute art and amazing fanfics and nourishing a positive fandom ecosystem.

Again, I don't matter in the long run. I'm not sure how many people even still follow me really since I've stopped engaging in the shipwars beyond art, fics, and kind posts. But I do want to let anyone out there who, like me, has had their tolerance for the ship wars plummet to the core of the earth, break through the crust in the middle of the Pacific ocean, and then drift into space, know that there IS kindness in this fandom beyond the noise. There are people doing great work on all sides, who are welcoming to all, and just trying to create something people will enjoy.

I can't say I'll be here forever, or even much longer. But I feel moved to signal boost the positivity. I also know that, although I do believe I tried very hard to be positive and not insulting the majority of the time, I had days that I let the negativity get to me and I was snarkier than I wish I would have been. I'm truly sorry if I ever made a post that even remotely hurt anyone's feelings or added to the negativity. I'd go back and delete them, but frankly they are my most popular posts and still get reblogged so it feels sort of pointless since reblogs don't get deleted.

Although I am an Elriel in my heart of hearts, I want to continue to be a welcoming space for all. If that means my followers get cut in half or only a few people interact with my posts, that's okay with me. I can't try to patch the roof of the fandom, but I can keep my own space toasty and warm for anyone looking for reprieve, regardless of who you ship. I've stated multiple times here that I'm the only Elriel in my IRL friendships, and I love my friends dearly. I tried to speak to Tumblr as a whole the way I'd speak to them, and I didn't always do that. But the world is too abysmal and scary and a lot of SJM fans come online and struggle to find a space that isn't extremely hostile and negative.

Here's to all the goofy little spooks making art, fics, texts, and transcending the shipwars and just trying to connect over the things we love.

In the words of our Lord and Savior Taylor Swift, I want to be defined by the things I love, not the things I hate.

Also still committed to writing a banger Elain Lucien and Azriel throuple once I get through my laundry list of current fics. Maybe a quadruple with Gwyn. Maybe I'll just write a giant orgy, actually.

[nuninho2000]

dont you think marauders fandom a little bit toxic? like nobody gives a sh*t about barty jr, evans?who? Jegulus?? They think everyone is gay lol

A little bit ? The Marauders fandom is totally toxic with their out of character fanfics and nonsense headcanons, they are so toxic with canon ships and Jegulus? That's basically the Drarry version of the Marauders Era and totally does not make sense, they are so desperate for " good Slytherin" that they even make Regulus the person that has nothing to do with canon and mostly bash the characters that are important for the canon story and I'm not going to mention what they do with Sirius and Remus

I'm still wondering how James X Regulus ship came out because if i recall that didn't exist until the pandemic and Tik Tok users started to post edits and headcanons about them

Many of the Marauders fandom are the definition of trailer park trash in many ways .

[sejjiplinth]

sejanus/marcus tag having nearly 90 works is so insane and beautiful to me like y’all i was translating a fic paragraph by paragraph via google on a site that kept adding viruses to my calendar app in 2020 because it was the only sejarcus fic that existed at the time 😭😭😭 I’VE PRAYED FOR DAYS LIKE THIS

[rist-ix]

https://www.tumblr.com/rist-ix/749015401700229120 not you reblogging this when you ship bloom with the man who murdered her family 😭

Bloom's into ppl who slay! Hope this helps :3

[utilitycaster]

Sort of a distant tangent off my post about Ashton, but I'm growing more and more suspicious of the fandom claim that there's no time for small RP moments in Campaign 3. I do think that it's been challenging to get deeper party bonding or serious conversations that aren't about the big philosophical questions they're facing, since those do take much more time; but then I think about Calamity, or Candela Obscura. I can genuinely give you at least a couple paragraphs about pretty much every relationship in the two Circles, or in the Ring of Brass. I can also point to no shortage of small moments between characters in the Mighty Nein Aeor or Vox Machina Vecna endgame episodes, which were all extremely plot-heavy and fast-paced, and D20 consistently nails character relationships in a fraction of the time.

I think it really does come down to, as Brennan Lee Mulligan always says, the character creation phase. Laying down a solid groundwork in which everyone has a detailed, rich backstory and sense of personality and relationship history (in the case of characters who knew each other prior to the start of the series) is absolutely crucial, and even in the case of characters who don't know each other before going in, a good amount of time spent in character creation ensures that it's easier for them to develop those interpersonal relationships on the fly. I know in actual play there's some degree of finding the character as you play, but there are games for which there is a very short runway, and I don't think it ever hurts to do more extensive character prep than the bare minimum. And if there are gaps, I think it also helps to go back and fill those in mid-way, away from the table - Travis clarifying Chetney's backstory being a great example that allowed the history of Chetney and Deanna to feel realized and full, despite only a few episodes.

I'll also be blunt: most of the time when people complain that there aren't moments because the plot keeps moving...they're mad about shipping. Which has always rung hollow to me. It was a common complaint in C2, that no time was taken for character relationships, despite them taking an entire half of an episode for the Beauyasha date and despite no shortage of moments for all three of the other couples (and plenty of platonic moments between friends). The issue was never a lack of time; it was that the characters they wanted to talk to each other didn't actually have the relationship in canon that the fans had dreamed up, and so, when the chips were down, they went to other people.

It takes two seconds to say something like "I hold their hand", even in the middle of plot-heavy adventuring. If someone doesn't say it, it's rarely the GM rushing them; it's the player either choosing not to do so, or not remembering to do so, and either of those is quite revealing regarding how the player feels about that relationship and where it stands in their priorities.

[phantajam]

my hot take about descendants is that NONE of the core four were ready for a relationship until maybe like, the third movie (rant in tags)

[chocolate-cream-soldier]

-.-

[novelconcepts]

i don't make resolutions, but if i did

it would be to finish this fic

(and to be kind to myself for however long it takes to actually do so)

[typemoonconfessions]

[chaosthatsmellsgreen]

so here's the thing.

Swan Song is the perfect ending.

it's not a happy ending, it's not necessarily the ending i'd want for either Sam or Dean, but that's not what a good ending to a story is. not all stories have a happy ending. and Supernatural? it's a tragic story. it's a story of perservering in the face of insurmountable evil. it's a story about holding on for dear life, as long as you can. it's a story about making the right choice, even if it seems impossible - even it if doesn't make you happy.

i wouldn't want Sam to be locked up with Lucifer for the rest of eternity. i wouldn't want Dean to fail the one goal he'd had in life, to protect his little brother. but by looking at the narrative of the whole five seasons, it's the ending that makes sense, and while bittersweet, it completes both of their stories perfectly.

Sam had been infected by evil before he was even born. he'd made unforgivable mistakes, he'd been struggling to stay on the path of good his whole life. in the end, the one thing he had to do was to be able to do the right thing. as heart-breaking as that is, the right thing, for Sam, is to sacrifice himself to save the world. the tragedy of it, that all he wanted was an out of this life he'd grown up in, to be normal, to be safe. to get away from the monsters and the darkness inside him. throughout the five seasons, he'd been struggling to make the right choices, he's been trying to deny who and what he is. in season four, he makes the ultimate mistake - and season five, from start to finish is his redemption arc. he knows what he's done, and he genuinely doesn't try to excuse it. even in the last second, he considers himself less than the people he looks up to, less than Dean and Bobby, but he knows what the next right thing is. the only thing left to do. and in the end, he doesn't get to enjoy the normal life he'd wanted in the world he saved, because that's just not his story. what he does get to do is to do right by the world - and more importantly, right by his brother.

Dean on the other hand, had always been fast to sacrifice himself. he was happy with his life as a hunter - keep in mind, even though he starts questioning that through the seasons (same as Sam is questioning whether he could ever be normal), that's where Dean comes from, originally. he's a hunter, it's his job to save people, it's his job to take care of his family, his little brother. that's what he is, that's all he is. and you can see how much of a toll it takes on him. he gives up his life so that Sam can live, but he resents the universe for it. he resents Sam for making the wrong choices, but it's because he feels like it's his responsibility to fix them - but Sam has grown up. he has his own mind and Dean needs to understand, as he does in the very end, that he needs to let Sam be who he is. that this obsession with cleaning up his messes is ruining him, it's pushing him to do things he never would've done for anyone else. and in my opinion, he does the right thing, too. he lets Sam make his own call. he's there, he goes with him to see Lucifer, he goes to where the battle is going to go down, even if there is nothing he can do, just so he's there for Sam ("Well then I ain't gonna let him die alone."). he's not there to change anything. he's there to support his brother. and the thing is, Dean never even dared to want the apple pie life. he was a good little soldier for his dad, he looked after his little brother, he saved people and killed monsters - between all that, anything he might've wanted for himself was just... buried by all the noise.

but Sam knows what it's like to want that. and he wants it for Dean. Dean never let Sam do anything for him, because it wasn't Sam's job to look after Dean. and Sam, whose last act was going to be self-sacrifice, who knew he wasn't going to make it out, he made the last thing he'd ever do be, for once, to look after his big brother. to prevent him from going down a path that would lead to loneliness and madness and the end of the world, again

and after five seasons, after giving up on Sam, on family, on life, on happiness, on the world, Dean finally gives in and lets him. he chooses to honor Sam's wishes, and do the one thing his brother always wanted, the one thing he could never have, the one thing Dean has always been too selfless to even want for himself; he goes and lives a normal life.

i know the series goes on. despite not watching to the end, i know Dean ends up dying and Sam ends up living to an old age. i know they go back to not trusting each other, to recycling their five season long character arcs over and over until narrative cohesion is gone completely. i know there are traces of the Sam and Dean of what i consider to be peak Supernatural in the later series (S8 Sam is very on theme for his character, which is why it's my favourite season from late-Supernatural). but the thing is, Swan Song is the perfect ending. it ends a complete arc, it closes a cohesive story with complex characters, a strong thematic core about love and family and free will, and an - albeit tragic - ending.

there are a lot of posts and conversation around how rare it is to have shows and movie series with a planned story, a story that ends not when it is no longer profitable but when it's supposed to. and Supernatural was clearly supposed to end here. this is my example every time i have a conversation about shows that you shouldn't watch every season of. and like i said, there is a lot of good stuff after this. there is a lot to explore in the world of Supernatural. i personally enjoyed a lot of later episodes, loved season eight and absolutely. fucking. ADORED Fan Fiction (10x05). but i look at all of that as spin off. an alternative way for things to go after the real ending. i often have a loose relationship with canon, and such is the case here. i have my own headcanon about how i'd like to imagine things go after season 5, but that's irrelevant.

Swan Song is a wonderful episode. it rounds out the story, brings it to a bittersweet but complete point. our heroes have made their choices, and Chuck's ending narration says it all.

"So, what's it all add up to? It's hard to say. But me, I'd say this was a test... for Sam and Dean. And I think they did all right. Up against good, evil, angels, devils, destiny, and God himself, they made their own choice. They chose family. And, well... isn't that kinda the whole point?"

THE END

[its-stupidhours]

YOOOOO WE GOT COMMON TAGS YALL LETS FUCKING GOOOOOOO

[thefandomcassandra]

they're Orpheus and Eurydice, they're unhealthy and imbalanced, the very heavens keep them apart, they do not love equally, they have both become parents, they have a century between them, death cannot keep them in his grip, they lie and cheat and steal to pave their way

[imwritesometimes]

deleting the playlist is the official nail in the coffin like. it's over. it's over now.

[quietwingsinthesky]

I know you reblogged the post about people being like "fictional cannibalism is deep and intellectual and fictional incest is disgusting and morally wrong" some time ago, but I just wanted to add that it’s absolutely insane how people are calling every piece of media that isn’t wholesome and unproblematic nowadays a direct reflection of the creator’s secret deviant fantasies �� la "check their hard drive". Like where does the line between getting called a genius and a master satirist and being labeled a disgusting pervert lie? Whenever I see someone make absolutely nonsensical comments like those all I can think of is Vladimir Nabokov getting canceled and chased off the internet in 2023 after writing Lolita lmao. Seriously tho. Especially in the spn fandom, how can people make posts about loving the fucked up family dynamics and the body horror and the psychological terror and the abuse parallels etc and then fall over themselves to put wincesties DNI DNI DNIII all over their entire blogs lol

My take on it is basically that the line people draw between what’s “morally” acceptable to write about or not is really just what they enjoy. That’s why this stuff usually comes down to shipping nonsense, it’s just fandom flame wars in a different trenchcoat. It’s also why you’ll get dissonant opinions like ‘incest is bad and we can’t write about it’ and ‘gore and murder is just fine to write about.’ If someone enjoys writing about their thing, however dark, and can understand why they enjoy writing about it, of course they’ll give it a pass, but other people’s dark things? that they don’t like, don’t understand? Must be evil. Must be disgusting.

(Plus, obviously, there’s probably something to be said about how in ‘incest vs cannibalism’, one of these is going to be assumed to only be about Sex and Perversion, while the other is obfuscated around sex, sometimes a display of desire but easy to deny that at the same time. Which is not to say that writing about incest is even always about sex, only that it will be perceived as such, no matter what you’re actually trying to discuss in your work.)

All that to say that of course it’s ridiculous to assume that someone’s writing or hell, even their internet persona, is reflective of their desires. I’m ace as fuck and get nervous if I don’t have explicit permission to hug someone, and I also have and will write noncon fic. There’s no secret there, nothing hidden that’s gonna lead to me hurting someone. I just enjoy writing impossibly huge power imbalances. I like squeezing characters like stress balls.

The “Wincesties DNI” thing still bothers me to this day. Maybe because I’m not sure where I even fall on that line. I follow wincest blogs, like their posts, I’ve written I think 2 or 3 wincest fics? But I rarely participate in it or reblog stuff here. Am I a wincestie? Am I tainted by association in such a way that I might as well be? Does “Wincesties DNI” mean actually all incest shippers dni, or are you secretly telling me you’re cool with Jo/Ellen, or did you just forget in the midst of your ship war that other interests exist. I don’t usually follow blogs that announce that, but that’s more because putting that label there just tells me even if I passed the test on that specific thing for you, you’re not gonna be cool about all the other weird shit I post lmao.

(I want to stress, I think there’s a difference between “Wincesties dni” and “wincest dni”. I think that asking people to not leave tags on your posts or comments on your work referencing an incest ship is a valid boundary to have. If that content is triggering to you or just not your vibe, I think you should be able to say, ‘hey, not here.’ That is very different than going ‘if you are a part of this group or ever interacted with this group, get away from me.’ Especially in a fandom where. I mean. Sam & Dean being weird is in the text. It’s a huge part of the show to the point of being referenced repeatedly in-universe, it’s a famously huge part of the fandom to where wincest built the very ground (AO3) we all walk on, and I just think that if you walk into a gay bar, you really shouldn’t complain so loudly about all the bears you see.)