#i think discussion is always good for learning

[zenruu]

A Needlessly Thorough Analysis of What Hardening Actually Means for Alistair

You can also read this analysis in a Google Doc if you find that format more palatable: here.

(I do recommend desktop for the comfiest viewing in either case, but both should be serviceable.)

Disclaimer: If critical discussion of a character’s feelings, motivations, and reactions to certain in-game choices could be personally upsetting to you, maybe don’t read this. None of this analysis is me judging you/your choices as a player, I am simply looking through the lens of Alistair’s characterization and the in-universe consequences of choices. Of course this analysis will be colored by my own bias, it’s inevitable. I can’t realistically include every potentially relevant line of dialogue, but I’m always happy to discuss if you think there’s something crucial I left out.

Hardened Alistair is often described as learning to stand up for himself and becoming more assertive, but why? Is it an accurate assessment? Even Alistair himself reacts to the hardening dialogue by saying he’s going to start thinking for himself and looking out for himself more, so surely it’s true… right?

To the contrary, I would actually argue that hardened Alistair tends to put others before himself more than unhardened Alistair. Let’s start by looking at how he becomes hardened.

The Hardening Process

After meeting Goldanna, Alistair is understandably devastated to find that the family he’s been dreaming of his whole life is not what he had hoped. He’s just been yelled at and turned away by the sister he’s never met, the only family he’s ever had a chance of knowing. He’s lost his hope at finding that sense of connection and belonging he’s always been looking for.

If the Warden wants to harden Alistair, they need to tell him, “Everyone is out for themselves. You should learn that.”

The message being sent is basically: suck it up, move on, grow up. This is the way the world is. Stop being so idealistic.

The message Alistair seems to receive, however, is a bit more complicated. In the follow-up conversation after meeting Goldanna, Alistair tells you that his takeaway from the hardening dialogue was that he needs to look out for himself more. This is, obviously, perfectly in line with the common belief that hardened Alistair is more assertive and more willing to stand up for himself.

But is that the reality that we see reflected in hardened Alistair’s choices?

Pre-hardening, Alistair tells you many times that he feels like no one cares what he wants; he believes it’s unfair and openly complains about it. Hardened Alistair, however, knows that no one cares what he wants and he accepts that as the way things are and must be. Unhardened Alistair will freely say he doesn’t want to be king and fights against it until he can fight it no more, while hardened Alistair will accept it, even going as far as to say he wants it.

Why would he change so suddenly from saying it’s his worst nightmare to saying he wants it? Does he mean it fully? Is this truly him seeking to fulfill his own wants and meet his own needs?

What actually changes if he’s hardened?

he is seemingly less reluctant about becoming king

if romanced, he will agree to a threesome with Isabela

he will agree to make you his mistress if you push the topic

if not married to Anora and chosen to fight Loghain, he will execute Loghain and take the throne

if not chosen to fight Loghain, he will insist on being made king

if married to Anora, he will become king instead of being exiled if Loghain is spared (Alistair will still leave your party, however)

he will approve of executing Jowan in Redcliffe

With the idea of “hardened Alistair putting his own wants/needs first” in mind let’s break them down one by one:

Note: some lines of dialogue have flags for “hardened”/“changed”, alternatively referred to as Alistair’s motivation being changed from “good to glory” or “Alistair 2”. These all refer to the hardening mechanic. The screenshots do have text that’s a bit small, because I wanted to be sure that I included the flags that show when lines are exclusive to hardened Alistair.

Less reluctance about becoming king

All along he’s said he doesn’t want it. You could potentially make a case that he didn’t truly feel that way and was only saying it because he’s insecure (which he is), but I don’t find this to be a terribly compelling argument. 

This is hardened Alistair’s response to being told he would be a good king after he’s decided to sacrifice himself. There are several lines like this that I feel contradict the theory that unhardened Alistair only says he doesn’t want to be king because he’s insecure in his abilities. It’s not that his insecurities are not a factor, it’s that hardening him doesn’t get rid of those things, meaning that this factor alone would not change his attitude about accepting potential kingship. In fact, he still believes that realistically Anora is better suited.

I’d argue that someone who has consistently said one thing without fail and is now only changing the tune after basically being told to shut up and grow up may not be expressing their truest desires. He is going along with what Eamon is telling him, with what the Warden is telling him, with what he’s told is his duty and responsibility. For the greater good, not for himself.

And you might be saying that can’t be true, hardened Alistair says he wants to be king!

Personally, I’d argue that Alistair saying he wants to be king is much the same as your average person saying they want a job. Do most people want to go to work every day? No, not really, but you have to because it’s just what you need to do. So when asked, you’d say you want a job. Of course you would, because you have to have one. But removed from that necessity, would you still say the same? Likely not. I believe the same holds true for Alistair. If he wasn’t being told at every turn that him being king is what must be done, he wouldn’t feel a need to bow to that.

Hardened Alistair confidently wanting to be king is often accepted as plain fact, when it’s really not so cut and dry. We can dig into some of his dialogue and really look at his feelings on the matter.

Hardened Alistair is saying he wants to be king. Even he’s surprised by it. But what is the context of this line? He’s about to sacrifice himself. He believes that his sacrifice–not living to rule–is the single best thing he can do as king.

But is it pure happiness and willingness, or is it a man simply trying to make the best of a situation he’s locked into? I vote for the latter.

I often see the argument that having a Warden queen would make him happier with the idea of being king, but by all evidence it really doesn’t seem to be the case. Here is his response to the Warden confirming that she does want to be queen. Alistair still doesn’t like the idea of ruling. This isn’t a line exclusive to hardened Alistair, he will always have this line available.

“I wouldn’t be in this position if it weren’t for you” … “you owe me” … Even hardened, Alistair seems to see being king as something negative being thrust upon him. A punishment, perhaps? What would his response be to being told that being king is not a punishment?

On the surface, he agrees, but take a look at that VO comment for his actual feelings on it. He does consider it a punishment. This is indeed a line for hardened Alistair, as it occurs during the mistress conversation, which is a hardened Alistair exclusive.

Even if hardened, Alistair would prefer to stay a Warden if he can.

And if you don’t make hardened Alistair king? He’s grateful. Happy. Happier.

Agreeing to a threesome

Unhardened or hardened, he will push back when you suggest this. However, only hardened Alistair will relent and agree to it. Unhardened Alistair will simply refuse. Which one sounds more like someone standing up for his own wants?

This is the path the conversation goes if Alistair is hardened. His initial refusal and discomfort with the situation remains, but if you tell him to go along, he will.

He is, regardless, clearly not as comfortable with the situation as one should be. It certainly isn’t the kind of enthusiastic consent one would look for when asking someone to engage in a particular sex act. But he had fun, so it’s okay, right?

Well… did he have fun? Isabela jokes about borrowing him in the future and it seems quite clear that he isn’t interested in a repeat occurrence. Not only is he not interested, he’s awkward, uncomfortable. “Oh, but he makes a joke about wet frocks right after this!” He does. But it’s Alistair. He’s constantly making jokes to mask his discomfort.

Agreeing to making the Warden his mistress

Again, he will push back on this at first, only relenting if he’s hardened and you push the issue. If unhardened, he’ll stand by his original statement that he feels it would be wrong. Is he just saying he believes it’s wrong, or is that what he truly believes? Based on what we know of Alistair, I’d say it’s far more likely that he truly does find the idea of making the Warden his mistress to be disrespectful both to the Warden and to his wife, and that he is somewhat disregarding his own beliefs on that to bend to the Warden’s insistence that he take a mistress.

Whether he’s marrying Anora or not, his views on the matter are the same. He intends to be loyal to whoever he marries, and he knows he cannot do so if he continues the relationship with the Warden.

It’s clear that he finds the entire idea distasteful.

Much like the threesome, you do have to press him to get him to agree. He’s quite set in his beliefs on the matter, but he will acquiesce if the Warden pushes it.

Insisting on becoming king in the context of dealing with Loghain

These are the choices where I’d say there is potentially a case to be made that Alistair is making the decision he wants to make. However, I wouldn’t say that the decision being made is that he wants to be king. I would argue that becoming king is simply a means to an end to give him the power to get revenge in the way he wants.

In the first potential scenario here, Alistair will insist on being made king if he is not chosen to fight Loghain. Why? He wants Loghain dead, and he isn’t being given the choice to make that happen. He wants the power to make that choice, all else be damned.

Here you can see that hardened Alistair insists on taking the throne while making it abundantly clear that the reason for doing so is to take care of Loghain in the manner he wants.

Unhardened Alistair does the same. Why? Because the motivation remains the same whether he’s hardened or not. Unhardened Alistair simply hasn’t become so resigned as to pretend he’s any less displeased with it than he is.

In the second potential scenario, Alistair is chosen to fight Loghain and kills him. He finally achieves the goal he’s been working towards all along: getting his revenge on Loghain. He’s running on that high when Eamon immediately suggests he take the throne, he says yes, he’ll do it. There’s not really anything to break down dialogue-wise in this scenario, as his acceptance of the throne is the exact same dialogue as it would be in any other case. He simply says he accepts when it’s proposed.

Is it what he truly wants? Maybe. You could make a case for it. However, I interpret it more as running on that adrenaline high, feeling powerful and not fully thinking it over in the moment.

Accepting being king & marrying Anora if Loghain is spared

Alistair has been tunnel visioned on getting his revenge on Loghain the entire time, and this is the only circumstance in which sparing Loghain will not result in Alistair leaving and becoming a drunk. He both accepts marrying Anora (which he isn’t happy about) and sparing Loghain (which is very counter to his wishes).

He doesn’t like Anora and doesn’t want to marry her, but he does anyway. Hardened Alistair knows that marrying Anora is politically advantageous and prioritizes that over his personal desire to enact his vengeance, though he makes it clear to the Warden that his personal feelings on the matter have absolutely not changed.

Hardened Alistair goes along with marrying Anora after Loghain is spared and leaves the party, unhappy with the Warden’s choice to spare Loghain. If this line alone didn’t make his displeasure clear enough, there’s also this one:

He refers to the Warden’s actions as a betrayal. He’s obviously not happy.

Unhardened Alistair, however, stands his ground and refuses.

Approving of executing Jowan

Another case of a changed tune to go along with what the Warden is doing. Unhardened Alistair actively disapproves of the Warden executing Jowan. We could assume that hardened Alistair is just more pragmatic, or perhaps simply more willing to accept it when the Warden tells him this is what must be done.

There is no Alistair specific dialogue to look at here, just the approval points, so it’s really just a matter of looking at what we know of him and the situation. I would say in general Alistair values life and values mercy. Are there exceptions? Yes. Loghain, for example, whose crimes Alistair has judged worthy of death. Clearly unhardened Alistair does not feel that way about Jowan. Hardened Alistair though? He approves of his execution, but is it because he personally thinks it’s best or is it because he accepts the Warden’s judgment?

I would argue that it’s the latter primarily because it’s completely in line with everything else we’ve seen from hardened Alistair. There really are just no solid cases of hardened Alistair asserting his own will when compared to unhardened Alistair, so I don’t see this case as being any different.

In Review

In each case of behaviors changed by hardening Alistair, we see him putting his own wants and needs on the backburner in favor of an externally imposed sense of duty or to bend to another’s will because he accepts that his personal feelings are irrelevant. I’d go as far as to say that hardening is really a misnomer, because what we’re really looking at would be better called resignation.

I actually didn’t include every single line I found of hardened Alistair expressing the sentiments I’ve laid out in this analysis because I didn’t want it to be too long, but there is more in the game. Now I will get into less concrete analysis and a bit more of an explanation of my own personal opinions on hardening.

Aside from looking at what hardening actually means for Alistair, we can also question its necessity. Do you need to do it if you want to do certain things in Origins (threesome, mistress ending, etc.)? Yes. But I often see people argue that hardening Alistair is necessary for him to grow or mature as a person, and I completely disagree.

My personal opinion is that hardening Alistair is neither necessary nor kind.

In terms of helping Alistair to grow as a person, I maintain that Alistair will become more naturally “hardened”, or more accurately, he will mature on his own if you give him the chance to do so. Why do I say so? Look at Alistair in Inquisition. That is not the same idealistic young man we see in Origins, and this remains true regardless of hardening status. Whether it’s Warden Alistair or King Alistair, he’s clearly grown and changed.

Sure, you can mod the game to make the hardening dialogue more palatable, but that’s an entirely different discussion. As is, you’re required to essentially kick him when he’s down, and I simply do not find it to be necessary for his own personal development.

If it’s not already completely obvious by me doing all of this in the first place, I really, really love Alistair. Of course I’m quite settled and happy as an unhardened Warden Alistair truther, but I’m always happy to discuss and debate. I’m very interested in any thoughts you might have, whether you agree with my assessment or not (as long as you’re nice).

Thank you for reading my (almost sickeningly thorough) little analysis if you made it this far!

As a treat (or unhardened Warden Ali propaganda depending on your perspective), here's my Warden, miss Neria Surana with her very happy unhardened Warden husband:

[lildrownedrat]

Not to start an argument, I completely understand and agree with your points in your posts! I just felt I could explain my point better. I don't/didn't want to take away from your point, just add my own two cents.

I have autism and ADHD, I just saw/felt that Taash related to my autism specific traits a lot more than my ADHD traits, personally. But I wouldn't argue if someone wanted to make the statement more general and say Taash is neurodivergent/ a good example of neurodivergent representation.

Yes, it's never explicitly stated that Taash is autistic but I saw a lot of my own story reflected in theirs that just isn't there in other characters. From the way they spoke and interacted with others, to things they mention in conversations with Rook and the other companions- like their trouble regulating their emotions, not remembering to do basic everyday tasks because their mind is occupied, feeling like they're just all together "wrong", having to sort through what's masking, what's you, and what everyone around you wants you to be. Often, good "representations" of neurodivergency aren't labeled as such. I think of examples like Katniss Everdeen and the Belcher Family. Many autistic people find that these characters just do a really great job at describing and portraying our perspective on things, unlike other characters. If a significant number of neurodivergent people are saying they see their story being told through Taash, I think there's some value in that.

I also see people criticize Taash using the same arguments they use against neurodivergent people in real life. "Taash is rude because they speak bluntly without a filter," but if you pay even a little bit of attention to them, you see they are actually really caring and sweet. "Taash is immature because they rely on their mother too much," but it's a lot of neurodivergent people's experience to need extra support from someone close to us. "Taash's dialogue is awkward," because they say things at the wrong time and don't always word it right. I just wanted to call this out because neurodivergent people are seeing how Taash is being discussed and for a character that shares a lot of our struggles, it's tiring.

Basically, what I'm saying is that I also didn't think Taash was an example of poor representation and I hate that that's a large majority of the opinions I see of them. I think they represented my story as an autistic, nonbinary, person of color very well. Their storyline wasn't about "fixing" how they talk to people, or telling them to get new interests- because these aren't character flaws, they're just traits and I LOVE that!

We just need to keep in mind the intersectionality of the stories being told through these characters. A neurotypical nonbinary person may not understand Taash's story, just like a white nonbinary person probably wouldn't relate to them as much. That doesn't mean they're a bad nonbinary representation.

I also think it's extremely important to point out that autistic people are resonating with them so that neurotypical people can learn more about what it means to be autistic.

(sorry for so many edits and revisions! Also sorry if there's any spelling of grammar mistakes. 😅 I'll try to fix them if I catch them)

I’ve kinda said this before and i’ll certainly say it again, taash is written incredibly well and accurately to the specific experience of being a 2nd-gen queer 22 yo. The way they talk, the awkwardness, the struggle to find words for queerness when you were never taught them in your first language and thus only know them in your second. They are the most accurate and well-written depiction i’ve ever seen of those experiences. However, most of you appear to a) not be queer, b) not be diasporic, and c) are not in your 20s, and thus have no concept of what those experiences are like and thus are criticizing writing around experiences you have no context for and no idea of how that should be written.

Like idk, i wouldn’t roll out the gate criticizing the writing of queer characters that grew up in fundamentalist christain households bc idk what that shit’s like. My parents are asian, they celebrate me getting an interview at los alamos, not getting a boyfriend. I’m fundamentally cannot tell you if that’s a well-written depiction bc i have little context for that.

[technofeudalism]

the US is entering the age of technofeudal idiocracy. this is the evolution of late stage capitalism, long under development by both neoliberal and conservative forces, constructed on top of a bedrock foundation of anti-intellectualism, patriarchal white nationalism and imperialist universal domination. notice i say universal. that's because i am including mars in the discussion.

if you are just coming to this realization, then yes, you are behind the curve. fascism is not just arriving. it arrived some time ago as part of this evolution. but if you can acknowledge that now and if you want to mobilize, it is never too late. we may not be at the beginning, but we are nowhere near the end.

the weapons you have at your disposal are going to be mostly decentralized, strong communities centered around generous mutual aid and meeting people's material needs - education, food and water, clothing, shelter, child care, physical and mental health, transportation, employment and (very carefully considered) self-defense. and of course, you need to learn how to directly and brutally (legally) fight back against fascism in your community.

all of those links are non-governmental resources. i am not saying you should never use government resources. it will likely depend on your state or local officials. but it should be obvious that showing extreme discretion from this day forward would be wise, particularly when interacting with federal agencies.

another good idea would be to gain an understanding of what it looks like when fascism invades every crack of society. if you are a non-minority (white/cis/able-bodied, etc.), please remember the ways in which a fascist society will always single out people of color, the disabled, religious minorities, the poor, and anyone else that can be unjustly cast as the "other."

lastly, you should think about safeguarding your internet privacy on an ongoing basis rather than occasional usage for specific activities. in other words, hypothetically keeping your VPN turned on all the time may be a greater benefit to you. some may consider this overkill. i would refer you back to three people i tend to trust on the matter more than the common person.

remember: don't panic about things that have not happened, but always have a plan in case something does. it's not a magic solution to the problem, but these are two sound philosophies that can co-exist together and i think there's a decent chance you'll be happier if you work towards adopting them.

[puppppppppy]

Xīn Yá and @crow-cap ‘s Little Sailor

[mulders-too-large-shirt]

things i always want to know about each episode

my favorite part of posting recaps is when people share their thoughts in the notes! so here is a list of things i love hearing. of course, you are under no obligation to share these things, but it is appreciated when you do!

did you like the episode? or did you hate it? or was it just okay? and feel free to share why

is the episode well-regarded within the fandom? (<- this one is really interesting to me, because i have no frame of reference for what the wider fandom thinks. i like knowing if i hit a big fave or if i found something cool in a less well-regarded episode. or if i am justified in my hating because everyone else does too, haha)

(i also love when people comment that i liked an episode enough to make them re-evaluate how they see it... <3)

which moments from the episode made you laugh/aww/cringe/gasp/etc etc

any behind the scenes trivia/fun facts ALWAYS make me sososo happy and i loooove to learn about them

honestly any fandom lore makes me so excited too! i love hearing about the terminology for different episode groupings, which moments really went wild with the msr crowd, any discourse the episode provoked, what was going on with the actors at the time, etc

i'm sure there are a million more things i could think of, but the overall message is that i really love hearing your thoughts and opinions! it makes the time put in feel worthwhile. since i'm still running from spoilers, the notes on these posts are pretty much the only way i get to interact with the fandom, so it is a real treat. and again, no obligation to ever comment, but it sure is fun when it does happen!

(also, this is a blog where going back and reading/reblogging/leaving many comments upon posts from months ago is encouraged and appreciated, so please never feel that you have to stick to the newest ones i post! i made the masterpost so it can be slightly easier for you to do exactly that <3)

[shalom-iamcominghome]

Hello Shalom! I hope you're having a good day.

I am a lurker on your blog, seeing someone finding so much belonging in another people brings me joy. I'm sending this because of the post in which you were worried you were a philosemite and to be honest it is a worry that has crossed my mind as well as someone who enjoy tumblr content, conversion blogs and enjoyed learning about Jewish cultures and (I hope) becoming a better ally to Jews.

So, my question would be, what is a philosemite and how not to be one? /gen

First: Thank you, I'm so pleased to know you're here - I feel honored to see you 🩵

So, philosemitism is a specific branch of antisemitism wherein people will often fetishize jewish people, jewish culture, or judaism. I call it antisemitism because - much like chasers for trans people - the problem isn't that you (impersonal) find fascination with another group of people. The problem is that you don't engage with jews and jewish culture from the standpoint of being equals, you specifically will characterize whatever it is that's gotten your attention.

With that in mind... I've been trying my best to avoid even looking like a philosemite because I don't want to be one. I think such a big part of that comes with a territory in that... having jews around you who are comfortable and speak about their experiences helps. Engaging with a jewish community has been really helpful - we talk, joke, laugh, and just... engage person-to-person, and it adds that human connection that brings you closer to others. For many philosemites, they are only happy to engage with the idea of jews but not the idea that jews are people with real feelings. So much of my desire not to be like that is being trans and being subject to many chasers (to clarify, a chaser is somebody who specifically fetishizes trans people).

For many minority groups, there are people who are only willing to engage with the minority insofar as that minority is not a person. The moment that person becomes a person, the illusion falls, and the interest is exposed as, essentially, a sham.

I worry a lot that my intentions are unclear to some, that I don't know how to expose my heart any more than it is now. I remedy that by trying to read, learn, listen, and ponder on actual jewish thought and opinion, and try to engage with as much of jewish culture as I can.

Now, to be clear, not every person with an interest in judaism, jewish culture, or allying themself with jews is a philosemite. That is wholly inappropriate to assume, and I would never apply that label broadly to any non-jew who, like you've expressed, wants to be an ally. The problem arises specifically when the tokenization and fetishization makes one believe that jews are not as human (don't have human thoughts, needs, opinions, complexities, feelings, the things that make us who we are).

[fluentisonus]

while we're talking about it though that's something really fundamental to spock's character I think in a way I don't always see discussed, that by joining starfleet he's making the explicit and intentional choice that he'd rather be seen as a perfect example of an alien amongst humans than as an imperfect vulcan amongst vulcans. I see this framed a lot as him being more accepted in starfleet than he was on vulcan, and I really don't think that's the case at all: he's still very attached to vulcan, and we see all the prejudice he has to face and how little he's understood in starfleet. but what it comes down to is that he'd rather exist in a place where no one understands him and so he has nothing to prove -- even if that means being very alone -- than in a place where he's surrounded by the familiar & meaningful but everyone can see the ways he can't quite fit. if that makes sense

[constantvariations]

Listening to the V7 director commentary for the first time and I almost dropped my jaw when I heard Luna call the racist drunkards the "faces of Mantle" like??

You want these two assholes to represent all of Mantle yet expect the audience to give a shit when it's threatened? Fuck em and fuck Mantle!

[musical-chick-13]

.

[iftitah]

<3

[the-faultofdaedalus]

every day i think about howard and maria’s deaths in the 2004 draft script

[itspileofgoodthings]

went over the first five chapters of the hobbit in depth with my 8th graders, talked about songs as motifs in tolkien, bilbo’s internal journey, the difference between the dwarves’ love of beauty and skill with their hands and the goblins’ purely clever and mercenary skill with machines, Rivendell as a place of rest but not the final destination, and Gandalf as a person who helps immensely but does not always stay for every second of the journey. it was so fun

[that-was-anticlimactic]

lol my student teaching supervisor sent me my feedback video because he observed me friday and it was twenty minutes long and he essentially said that he was disappointed in me and that i did a disservice to american poetry so i'm feeling pretty good about myself

[rubys-domain]

now that i think about it, i wonder how the rest of the playerbase actually sees chongyun. as in everyone who's not privy to his character stories and voice lines, and who probably haven't done his hangout event either. i wonder what kind of personality they think he has

[half-blessed]

I wonder why I don't hear many stories about people who are socially fail and don't have many friends and are scared to talk and say words. Then again, the people who WOULD tell those stories are scared to talk and say words. And also, I suppose it could be difficult to make a compelling character who doesn't interact with other characters. Or I'm just not looking the right places for stories. I would take recommendations.

[not-the-grave]

the depth of abandonment trauma i'm discovering i have is kind of insane