#i remember begging for this not to be queerbait

[clairedaring]

Here, I brought you some remedies. Ointment from my hometown is so much better than the medicines infrom the palace. It will heal your wounds faster and won't leave any scars. Thank you so much. Let me put some on you.

THE EMPRESS OF AYODHAYA (2024) dir. Sant Srikaewlaw

[stolitzsings]

As the new episode drop approaches I am begging people to remember that there is such a thing as a narrative arc when it comes to building character relationships. Stolitz was always going to be angsty and slow-burn (and is all the better for it imho), and as much as I would love to see them work shit out and get together in the next episode, it makes sense that things would get worse between them before they got better

Half the fun of angsty ships is the pining, the misunderstandings, the times when they could JUST TALK ALREADY but are too stubborn or afraid or upset to do so. From what we've seen in the trailer it looks like they're going to have even more pain and misunderstandings in the next few episodes. That doesn't mean the creators are abandoning the ship, or that them not immediately fixing shit is a plot hole or bad writing. And if I see anyone using the word "queerbaiting" about this I swear to fuck I will remotely delete your blog

This is a bit more confrontational than my usual posts but this is the piss on the poor website and I'm gonna need everyone to engage their media literacy skills and actually think about the established conventions of slow burn narratives

Bottom line is I don't wanna see a bunch of bad-faith posts complaining about the next episode just because the creators decide to employ tension and the push and pull of competing character drives rather than just making everything perfect immediately

That being said I'm right here with you ready to get my heart smashed to bits by a comically large hammer labeled "these two idiot gays can't get their shit together"

[wellofdean]

Sorry ,for me personally, it has to be out loud acknowledge to even remotely make up for how badly they treated fans over the years, the out loud queerbaiting in one breath and mocking in the next. The in text gay jokes, sexism and homophobia. The digs at their own fans.

They want the credit without having to do it. Again. They want the pat on the back they need to earn it this time.

Years of baiting for views and profit needs a payoff imo. Sorry people downplaying how important the canonization of this ship in particular is just hurts to see over and over. Stop letting them off the hook please. You deserve more. We all do.

It’s important. It does matter.

The cas/destiel hope baiting continued with the Winchesters and that’s why I’m at a put up or shut up moment with Jensen and the writers. He and Danneel kept the hype up every week that the show was airing all the while knowing cas doesn’t even get a name drop. He’s not even hinted at. Mary/john paralleled destiel so many times yet refused to call it want it was.

They could have shut it down week one, they interacted on tweeter a lot during airing and knew what fans thought there was going to be an acknowledgment or hint that never happened. They are smart people, they saw the speculation and hype but didn’t step in with a gentle ‘sorry guys this is about the new crew’ they fanned the hope instead with ‘something big happens’ that was just dean meeting the new team.

Loved the Winchesters as a show, sad it got dropped cause I loved the new cast so much. That said the baiting hurt and wasn’t necessary, the show was good.

Everyone is looking back with rose colored glasses and rewriting history. But things were ugly with the spn team/cast/writers at times. The homophobia was pretty out loud in a way it was allowed to be in the early 00s. They’ve grown and that’s wonderful but it still happened.

They need to earn the praise they want imo. No hate! Glad you are happy! just feels a little unfair to say we should all let them off the hook again and be happy with nothing while praising the benevolent straights. Just my two cents 😅💚💙

I want to answer this sympathetically, because I know it's disappointing that no one has been willing to just say "Dean and Cas are gay for each other" out loud, and I don't think there are many people in this fandom who picked up what the narrative was putting down, and were not disappointed in the finale for LOADS of reasons, only one of them being that Dean never had the chance to acknowledge what Cas said to him. I understand your feelings, my anonymous friend, I really do. I too found the end of Supernatural deeply frustrating, because they managed to erase the meaningful journeys of every single character, not just Dean, though what they did with Dean was the worst. I completely understand wanting them to JUST FUCKING SAY IT. I do. I get you. I simply do not agree.

My argument, which I have made many, many times, is that what you want is THERE in the narrative. They made Cas Dean's ride or die, they made it obvious that Dean can't carry on without Cas -- that the loss of Cas means Dean loses his will to live. That was explicit. They made it clear that more than anyone else, EVEN Sam, Cas is essential to him. They structured the narrative around Dean and Cas's emotional beats. They let Cas say the obvious thing out loud, and then showed us Dean behaving exactly as Dean would in a situation like that -- in the midst of his existential crisis about who he is and whether he has ever had free will, and with the world falling around them -- they showed us Dean unable to speak, unable to respond but overwhelmed with emotion. Like, remember that when Mary died when Dean was four, he was unable to speak? Is it really so hard to imagine that he loves Cas with all his heart? To read love in Dean's watery eyes, and the way he chokes down his heart and begs Cas not to do this? Not to being saying goodbye? I mean... I CAN DO THAT MATH. Literally everything about the story supports it. IT IS THERE.

Fandom always argues: if Cas were a woman, we wouldn't have any questions, so what I am just wondering is, why do we have questions again? Is it because we (homophobically) can't just see it for what it is because it's gay? Because, when it's gay we lose our ability to interpret narrative, and we need to be told, like we are 5 years old, what's happening in a perfectly obvious story? Or, is it a skill issue? Is it because we need the creators of the story to affirm our interpretation? We need the actors to just TELL US what they meant when they did that thing with their faces? Do we need their permission to understand it for what it is?

I've said many times that calling what happened on Supernatural 'queerbaiting' because no one ever made out or fucked on the maps table is really offensive to me actually. Don't you know that there are queer people in this world who never get to live their truths? Who just ache and yearn and want, and never get to have? Like, that there are in fact queer people who are afraid to say what they feel, or who don't understand or embrace who they really are and what they really need until it's too late? Are those not QUEER EXPERIENCES? I love Dean and I love that story because it's queer as hell and it makes ME feel seen, because I am like him! I am a queer person of his age who didn't ask myself those questions seriously enough in time! My own queerness is very fucking real, and it is UNLIVED. That HAPPENS to actual queer humans, and like, it's not queerbaiting when it's just queer, but didn't tell you the queer story YOU wanted it to tell. You saw years of tease? I saw years of choices, and love, and accretion of deep wells of emotion. I saw a clear romance, and a character becoming. It was a story I needed, AS A QUEER PERSON.

And the Winchesters was just joyful if you went in with that understanding of the previous story. It was like getting an A+ in Supernatural week after week from Dean himself. I can accept that the stars didn't align for Cas/Misha to come back in the first season, accept that if he were coming back, it needed to be more than a cameo to make it right, and that it didn't work out. I am so sad it was cancelled, but I can accept that it was leading someplace it didn't get to go. That's not queerbaiting, either! It's telling a story that was aborted, and I think if you don't see that, then that is DEFINITELY a skill issue.

I'm not looking back with rose coloured glasses; Supernatural is fresh in my mind. I watched it again without the internal pressure of expectations that aren't going to be met, and let it tell me what it was really doing all along. I am happy. It's a really compelling, deeply romantic, deeply queer story. I don't need permission from anyone involved to think that, and I don't need it explained to me. I understand wanting it to just be fully explicit, but I would not trade the story it did tell for a simpler, less engaging one, that asked less of me. I love it very much AS IT IS.

And, please: point me to this fabled abuse of fans. I have never really seen an example of it that is not easily debunked with a little bit of context.

[buddiebeginz]

Fandom I'm begging you all to wait and see how the season plays out. Everything right now seems to be pointing towards Buddie and sure I could be wrong but I also think it would be the shows downfall if they didn't make Buddie happen this season and I think Tim and abc know that.

This isn't just about catering to fandom whims this is that since right before s7 they've done so much to put focus on Buddie way more than with any season before. Deliberate choices have been made that if they're not leading to Buddie can't not be seen as queerbaiting. And yes a show with queer characters can still queerbait if they're using a popular queer ship to garner attention and views. Though I don't think that's what's happening here.

The only reason I think more didn't happen with Buddie last season is because the season was short and they got renewed for s8 early. You can tell if you watch from eps 1-6 that they were leading somewhere with Buddie (they had them singing a karaoke love song ffs) but changed gears after getting renewed for s8. At the same time Tim still didn't put more development or focus on b/t so it's not that Buddie happening was shelved (as in it's never happening) it was just paused.

Also I see people spiraling about that pic Ryan posted assuming because he's in a robe and because he put "Don Diaz" on it that it's a reference to Don Juan and this means Eddie is going to be hooking up with a bunch of women. I just don't see that happening. Ryan could have easily just been making a joke or trying to mess with fandom or it could mean nothing. It could be a Godfather reference. Or it could be something like Eddie tries to hook up with a random girl and he just can't do it and then that leads to him talking to the priest. Unfortunately we aren't going to know what that pic really means until the episode airs.

I know we've all been burned by the show (and other shows) before and I get being nervous about what could happen this season. But remember that Buck was supposed to come out in s4 (this has been confirmed by Oliver) and Eddie in s5 (this has been confirmed by the the insider) and presumably that's when Buddie would have happened. Buddie has been in the works for years. The main thing stopping it before was Fox and last season it was just too short to have Buck to come out, Eddie come out, and then Buddie to happen. 10 eps was just not enough time to tell such huge important stories for the show and these characters.

I know Tim and others behind the scenes of the show have made decisions we haven't always loved and maybe it's naive of me to still have trust in them after all this time but it's not just that. I see the signs. If I had seen more effort being put into b/t last season and into promoting them as a couple and especially if I saw that happening this season I'd be a lot more skeptical about the likelihood of Buddie ever happening. But I haven't seen any of that.

This season Tim has talked about how b/t are still together but he doesn't talk about the ship like it's this important thing, he talks about it like T*mmy is just like any other person Buck has dated. Meanwhile Eddie is ALWAYS mentioned when b/t are talked about including by Tim. Networks and showrunners know how to handle these kinds of things. If they wanted to minimize the attention Buddie gets they would have done so. We know this because that's exactly what they did in past seasons while they were with Fox, particularly after Tim left. Instead though since last season they've actually been putting more attention on Buddie, Ryan, and Oliver.

Like I said I get being nervous that something we've all hoped for for a long time might not happen. I know that Buddie and Eddie coming out means more to a lot of us than just some fictional characters and a ship. I know a lot of us see ourselves in them and we also see how important and groundbreaking in a way it will be when they finally go canon. I get why the anxiety around this season is heightened probably more so than any other season before it. We've never been as close to Buddie happening as we are now and that's so exciting but also scary.

But this is why I think we need to take every bts and spoiler etc that we get from the show and people involved in it (including the journalists who review it) with a grain of salt. We just aren't going to know what each episode is about until we watch them. Even when the season starts we need to remember to let the story play out. We might see things we won't like with b/t or Eddie in 801 but there will still be 17 more eps to get through where anything could happen.

We are so lucky that 911 is still on the air with most of the original cast still there and not looking to leave. That all the people that matter Tim, Oliver, and Ryan have all spoken out in support of Buddie happening. I've shipped non canon ships before that just were never going to happen, where showrunners and actors literally made fun of the fans for even shipping it. That's not what's happening with 911. Buddie now is being treated like a legitimate possibility we just have to be patient.

[nakachuchu]

CHAPTER ONE: THEM

Black Swan series

SYNOPSIS: Being a teenager surrounded by others who could see Curses made you feel safe.

WORDS: 1k

WRITTEN: 10/22/2023

Born from a non-sorcerer family in the country, moving to Tokyo to a school specifically made for teenagers with Cursed energy felt like a fantasy.

Your family loved you, despite being frightened of the things you could see. They simply thought you could see ghosts, but when Yaga turned up at their doorstep when you were sixteen, they learned that what you saw was far worse.

Your parents were extremely supportive, wanting you to be able to learn about this power you had since birth.

You were torn to leave your parents, holding nothing but love for them. They were the only people who defended and loved you in a small town that bullied and harassed you for being able to see spirits.

But upon seeing the supportive yet sad expression on your mother's face, you left for Tokyo to start a new life alone.

That was where you encountered the three students who would be your best friends at Jujutsu Tech.

"You guys are so gay."

Shoko choked on the smoke, her cigarette tumbling out from her fingers as she cackled at your sudden statement.

"I'm just saying," you added.

Satoru and Suguru looked at you with the most incredulous expression as they rounded on you, backing you up against a wall.

"You hate gay people or what?" Satoru questioned with a pointed finger.

"We're not all gay, just bisexual," Suguru corrected.

You shrugged. "Potato, po-tah-to," you said before flicking Satoru on the forehead and ducking from under Suguru's arms to return to Shoko.

You picked up her cigarette and returned it to her lips before sitting on top of the table and lighting it for her.

"Hey, that looks gay too!" Satoru shouted outrageously.

"I'm just lighting her cigarette!"

"I saw that horny look in your eyes!" he retorted.

"Are you crazy? You're just making up things!"

Shoko blew out a puff of smoke from the corner of her mouth before leaning down to press her cheek against your thigh, pushing up your skirt slightly.

"If I wanna be gay with Y/N, then isn't that my business?" she questioned.

Everyone was silent for a moment until you gently hit her head with your fist.

"Don't queerbait, Shoko," you softly reprimanded. "You're straight, remember?"

"Can't a girl experiment?"

"I'm straight," you deadpanned.

Shoko shrugged. "If you say so."

You laughed. "Don't try to change my mind."

Suguru chuckled as he approached the bench and sat down, urging Satoru to sit down in the process.

The Six Eyes user grumbled, but followed his boyfriend and sat down next to him. The two shared a look as you reprimanded Shoko with a smile on your face for queerbaiting.

It had been almost a year since your admission to Jujutsu Tech. You were a valuable student to the school, but you didn't have enough strength to go on missions alone.

You would be paired up with Suguru, Satoru, Haibara, or Nanami, as your abilities aided their abilities.

Your technique "What Makes You Special?" allowed you to see into the very soul of anyone and see what made them unique. You were able to see their stats and techniques. There was no hiding from you.

When you first met Satoru, he complained like a child that he didn't need anyone else to aid him, but you eventually got through to him by being mean to him.

Only Suguru truly knew what type of person Satoru was — he got off on you being a complete bitch to him.

He would never forget the time you spoke to him on your first mission together. "Shut your mouth, you pathetic boy. Have you no manners? Can't you see my head hurts?"

That was why Satoru was the first to gravitate to you and beg for your attention, just so you could tell him off for being annoying.

Satoru and Suguru weren't looking for a third person in their relationship, but after meeting you, it was all they wanted.

While Satoru had more sexual reasons for wanting you in his life, Suguru enjoyed having conversations with you that ranged from the meaning of life to the rating of a new superhero movie.

But, he especially loved seeing you utterly confident in your technique and seeing you stand with no fear or anxiety in the face of powerful Curses.

"Satoru, Suguru," Yaga called out.

The two teenagers glanced at each other before walking toward their teacher, who led them away from wandering ears.

Your eyes trailed after them until they disappeared.

"I wonder if Yaga knows we'll eventually know everything anyways?" you asked.

"I think he does know," Shoko answered.

You hummed and turned back to her with a light smile. "It's crazy how fast things spread."

"Like diseases," she added.

"Like diseases," you repeated. “If one person knows, the whole world knows,” you said as you looked over your shoulder to read the words coming out from Yaga’s lips.

Because of your ability, you saw the world in statistics or captions. You could see the stats of a person, and in this case, read the words Yaga was saying.

“How special is this mission?” Shoko asked.

“I'd say pretty damn special if Tengen is getting involved.”

Yaga turned around and you whipped your head back to Shoko.

“Y/N, stop acting like you don't know what I said. Now, come on.”

Yaga always acted like this with you. He knew you'd eavesdrop on every conversation he had, so he never bothered telling you when you would actually be on a mission too.

“With Saturu and Suguru?” you asked, turning back around.

The two were strong enough on their own, so you had never been paired up with them together before.

“I said the same thing,” he muttered.

You hopped off the table and walked to the trio, giving Satoru’s arm a slap when his hand inched toward your ass.

He pouted and clutched his arm as if you would have been able to inflict such damage on him. You rolled your eyes as you followed after Yaga.

[mieczy-stiles]

The thing about Luca is that. And I say this as a writer, I suppose, but also as a queer person, that he exudes a certain feeling of safety, and comfort. Like, to have him play something will mean he's going to give you his everything. No matter the character, you'll see a sincerity that isn't just the product of the script, or the demand of it, but also the mind of the actor.

To know that a person of his calibre is out there playing queer characters so effortlessly, and without a doubt in their mind, without any prejudice blinding his artistic choices and who he is as a person, it's obviously a ray of hope, but it is also, then, a kind of trust, even if it is just parasocial in many ways.

I know if it's Luca playing a certain queer character - regardless of what happens to them in the script, that is if the script is stupid and insincere to the queer perspective in certain ways - I'd still easily trust him to do justice to the queer experience, for how sincerely he plays everything.

The whole every-character-of-his having a underlying homoerotic quality to them is all fun and cool and great and beautiful, but also, it's so fucking refreshing

It's been decades of asking for the correct representation in media, it's been years and years of queerbaiting and, if not that, just general lack of care

I've been accustomed to just wanting some of my favourite characters to be gay. Just thinking and wishing and hoping that someone someday will let them reach the full scope of their personality, let them have the right sort of ending, see first the fabric of their person, and not just the thread of their sexuality, and maybe then write the script. There have been all sorts of emotions, and so to find now a person who is doing just that? It's pure beauty.

For a while now it's been changing, more and more shows and films are becoming inclusive and accepting and understanding of the queer gaze, and it's so beautiful that Luca contributes to it with his whole heart, and has been for a long while.

Many must remember how it used to get with artists and makers always denying or trying to tip toe around the obvious queerbait, or shying away from the conversations that involved that queer perspective, or outright rejecting the very idea- it happens still - but then you see the likes of Luca and Marwan being comfortable in each other's company and also about the love they shared on screen (especially, i think, it begs to say, with them being men), talking happily about their characters, making playlists for them, recommending poems for them

A lot many actors now are open to these conversations, a lot of them now talk about it with nuance and care, with just the right words, and though it's in no way any less a contribution to the conversation, or any less genuine, but again, there is something to be said about the ease Luca shows.

Again, as I said before.. it feels safe, with him.

In a lot of his interviews, he doesn't bat an eye before saying things like - I was lucky to have him as my husband. And he means it, you can tell that by the smile on his face. When people are focusing on the movies' objective and the friendships in it, he easily goes and says it's not only the friendship, but also the love.

In another of his interviews, there was once this question about Roberta, about if he knew what was demanded from him and how he prepared for a transsexual character. I remember it because I was almost sure I'll be hearing some generic answer like I studied trans people for this role and this that blah blah, something ignorant, basically. I was braced for it. But he just said. (And he was talking in english, and all that he was trying to say was conveyed more through his face and gestures, it was super cute actually) - I read the script, and I just felt something. I didn't think about playing a transsexual, but a woman, with a friend. It was important for me to show the love she had for him. So. I just played a woman helping out a friend :)

And I was like ?? wait that's? That's all? You're not going to go deep into the character's psyche and the great moral upstanding you must be feeling for doing a role like this? You're not going to talk about how you "prepared" for this role or how it was "different" for you?

I was so used to people doing that, his simple answer took me by surprise.

and that's what's so refreshing, so comforting.

There's no hesitation in him, no prejudice or preconceived notions or activism, even, compelling his choices and words.

It's just him, plain and simple.

He's committed to his art in a way that people rarely are. Especially in media, where even big companies and huge hollywood stars often fail you.

I wish more people in this world were like him. So gently open in his ways, so effortless in his understanding and acceptance that it becomes intrinsic to him.

He's one of the few people, I would say, who are an artist not just by work, but also by nature.

[shadowofroserade]

Is it weird to worry, that the acid tunnel of to an unsuspecting player can seem kind of queerbaity? I don't know how the narrative will address it, but unlike the weird route where the uncomfortable elements are readily on display, and there are a lot of heteronormative implications, rings etc. In the acid tunnel of love scene on the other hand, you need to the context of Undertale (Ralsei, Asriel anagram), and some vague hints (tea theory) for someone on the first playthrough to realize it's implications, and Ralsei is a character that certainly has queer undertones, it doesn't really have the readily available front-facing forcefulness that is in the Snowgrave route and show's that both Kris and Noelle are uncomfortable with it, in fact Ralsei seems to not be opposed to it, presumably despite Kris being uncomfortable with it.

I am BEGGING people to actually learn what queerbaiting means.

Queerbaiting implies that there is a significant monetary benefit to luring in a queer audience to your show/movie/etc only to not deliver to avoid the potential controversy of actually deliviring mainstream queer content. I hope I don't have to explain why Toby Fox engaging in queerbaiting does not make sense.

Now as for the rest of your points, I just think you need to wait. You need to remember that we're only on Chapter 2 of 7, and there will be plenty of opportunities for Toby to address the uncomfortable aspects of that particular relationship. I have no doubt that all of these implications of Kris and Ralsei's relationship will be built up slowly for an impactful moment of realization for even the most oblivious first-time Ralsei loving player.

TLDR: Let Toby cook.

[lokielly]

is it just me or does anyone else ever think about the hit queer media will take because of how quick people are to call things queerbait?

tl;dr: there's something so good about a slowburn that we won't get with queer media if don't allow these relationships to develop slowly, rather than fast so that you as a writer don't get accused of queerbaiting.

of course, i'm not saying queerbait doesn't happen. we do see it frequently. this is why i think people are too quick when it comes to calling things queerbait, because a lot of people have experienced it so much they're traumatized by it in a way. it's just there are a lot of things that aren't queerbait too.

my perspective here is that a lot of my favorite ships took 5-7 seasons to get together. and those ships are SO GOOD. because you see their relationship develop and they grow as people together before even acknowledging their feelings for each other at times. it's so cool and overall just very human.

i've never had this experience with queer characters because it's always so much faster (and a lot of that comes down to queer, especially sapphic, shows being cancelled). i think a lot of writers do this though because people will accuse them of queerbaiting. i remember hearing that people though ed and stede were queerbait at first. and now i'm seeing this with nandor and guillermo (both canonically queer characters on a show with other canonically queer characters, which i feel immediately disqualifies it as baiting). i'm not the biggest nandermo shipper in the world, but i feel like i could be if this plays out even longer. it's already good and complex because of it taking longer to play out (also, they don't have to end up together at all for it to be a canonically queer relationship btw. the show could end with guillermo being like "i hate you nandor i don't know why i was ever in love with you" or whatever and it would still be good. but that's a topic for another day).

this is all also on top of tv already killing the slowburn by taking such a huge fall from sitcoms having ~25 episodes per season to now like... 10 if you're lucky. so please i beg. don't kill the slowburn even further it's already on life support.

haiii :3 silly little ramble time for those of you that are reading under the cut... enjoy my internal monologue.

i promise btw that i'm not saying any of this to be mean to anyone that has called things queerbaiting that i said aren't in this post. i understand why people are quick to pull that term; this community is so traumatized as a whole. i just never watched any queer media until i was 20 years old so i've never gone through being queerbaited and my standards are all based on the heterosexual couples i watched on tv.

funnily enough, the reason why i never sought out queer media despite knowing i was queer since i was like 14 was because of knowing that it wouldn't be slow and that it would be too?? on the nose?? if that's the right phrase? our flag means death was the first thing that felt complex enough while still being a comedy, weirdly. then came a league of their own. and that's really all i've watched besides wwdits but like... i'm not watching wwdits bc i'm invested in nandermo so. that's different. idk why i started telling my story abt my relationship w queer media. but yeah. i need depth. not just "we're gay and in love"

[mikarchive2]

personally i am pretty sure we are not getting canonical angeldemon romance in season two and i am completely okay with it cause i dont believe queerbaiting is a real problem but i can already see the discourse it will spawn . and i am begging everyone to be normal and respectful about this you have all been told your headcanons are valid a thousand times what more do you want ... see this is the prophetic perfect tense kvetching i was talking about no one is complaining about any of this yet and here i am complaining about how they will complain . if you remember 2019 i am sure you understand though . i just really dont want my dash to look like that again . 🙏🏻 .

[dee-the-red-witch]

Please, I am begging you.

If you have kids, if you're thinking about having kids, even if you're just thinking about adopting kids...

Remember to talk to them about Supernatural.

I know, I know, it's how we get 98%5 of our news here, but really, warn them. Warn them not to devote that much time and headspace to it. Keep them away from a fifteen season queerbaiting, misogynistic, milquetoast, (insert adjective of your choice), slog if you possibly can. We all went through that rot so no one else should have to ever again. If they insist, just have them stop at the end of season five. Really, it's enough there.

But otherwise? You can make a difference in your kids life, but only if you educate and educate early. Start young.

[dearweirdme]

Shifting a statement which said that TH was utilizing JK for fan service into one discussing closeting and “queercoding” was ultimately unrelated and a poor connection. TH has written music and left other “hints” that he points to his possible queerness. That is understandable. But for what reason could TH be bringing up JK at any chance he has in front of ARMY? TH doing a live for less than ten minutes and not even a minute in he’s mentioned JK. Saying “JK is here” during a live for no reason, what purpose does that serve? Posting him on Instagram, saying he wants to do livestreams with him. I would not call behavior “queerbaiting” or even “queercoding” because 1. these are terms applied to marketing techniques by media companies and media analysis, not real people and relationships and 2. nothing about two people being friends and expressing their friendship inherently queer. While frequent, TH’s mentioning of JK is quite frankly always trivial comments that could be about any member, nothing special. What is manipulative about this though is that TH KNOWS. He has to know just how loud TKK stans are, he reads the Weverse comments which are often begging for him to bring JK to the live or mentioning TKK. He has to be aware of the mass trending and large view counts. It’s causing a stir to get a rise out of stans: fan service. But, to top it all off and prove the point further, JK reciprocates zero of that attention. JK is loud, usually unafraid to bring up things that he loves, sharing recipes and his favorite whiskeys, even his love for his members (most recently, JM in an hour long live). Don’t you think if JK and TH were actually together, and TH is this “loud” that JK wouldn’t match his energy, regardless of the worries of stigma around queerness? Off the top of my head, I cannot remember the last time even JK mentioned TH. TH does not do this with anyone else, hell he hasn’t mentioned JM in months, supported YG and HS for their album release and enlistment respectively, but that’s about it. Bottom line, TH is not “queercoding” his friendship with JK, nothing about it is inherently queer. He is smart with experience in this industry and knows just what stans pick up on and praise.

Hi anon!

Let me cut your ask in pieces to respond to different statements you made.

Shifting a statement which said that TH was utilizing JK for fan service into one discussing closeting and “queercoding” was ultimately unrelated and a poor connection.

That anon's last statement was literally: "And those times he mentioned anything that is gay pride related? I realized he was only queerbaiting." As I mentioned, I was using that ask to respond to several asks I received... a lot of which also accused Tae of queer baiting. It is not I who opened that topic, It is not I who made Tae mentioning Jk into queer baiting. It's those anons who are angry about it. You have not seen my inbox, but it's been full of people accusing Tae of being manipulative, gaslighting, queer baiting. I find it hard to read so many people apparently thinking this badly of him. To me Tae is kind, caring, and he loves all his members. Why are people so quick to think negatively about him? Even if what he does feels strange to you, why jump to negative conclusions? Why not give him the benefit of the doubt?

TH has written music and left other “hints” that he points to his possible queerness. That is understandable.

Yes, exactly! One of my biggest frustrations in all of this is that it's so clear that heterosexuality is the default. People are actually 'defending' Tae against queer rumors. The idea that he might not be straight is disgusting to some. Being gay or bi, or non-binary, or whatever, are all normal states of being. People don't choose to be heterosexual or queer, they just are. You never see anyone defending themselves for being heterosexual do you? No, because that is the normal to this day. So if a celeb were to actually be closeted and they were to see those 'defending' comments, what does that tell them? It tells them that coming out is still a risk.

But for what reason could TH be bringing up JK at any chance he has in front of ARMY? TH doing a live for less than ten minutes and not even a minute in he’s mentioned JK. Saying “JK is here” during a live for no reason, what purpose does that serve? Posting him on Instagram, saying he wants to do livestreams with him.

Well I don't know, maybe because he loves him? Because he likes to share how close they are. Because Jk is important? But no, so many people jump to the conclusion that Tae is an evil mastermind who uses poor JK. Jk isn't some fragile puppet who allows Tae to use him. You're not even giving him any credit here. If Jk wouldn't want Tae to mention him he would've told him by now. Jk is fine with this. Why does there have to be a reason even (I think there is, but that's speculating just as much as you are doing)?

I would not call behavior “queerbaiting” or even “queercoding” because 1. these are terms applied to marketing techniques by media companies and media analysis, not real people and relationships and...

You are right. Historically speaking those terms were meant to describe fiction and entertainment hinting at, but never confirming, queerness. However, I would argue that in recent years those terms have increasingly been used throughout media and social media to describe actions of actual persons. Kit Connor, Harry Styles, Billie Eilish, Taylor Swift, Cardi B, Maneskin, have all recently been in headlines accused of queer baiting. Language is ever evolving and terms are prone to change meaning throughout time. So while historically speaking you are correct, I know (as someone who has a degree in language studies) that language follows society, not the other way around.

2. nothing about two people being friends and expressing their friendship inherently queer.

True, I also don't think it is Tae's intention to out them by mentioning Jk as much as he does. I think it's to convey closeness.

While frequent, TH’s mentioning of JK is quite frankly always trivial comments that could be about any member, nothing special. What is manipulative about this though is that TH KNOWS. He has to know just how loud TKK stans are, he reads the Weverse comments which are often begging for him to bring JK to the live or mentioning TKK. He has to be aware of the mass trending and large view counts. It’s causing a stir to get a rise out of stans: fan service. But, to top it all off and prove the point further, JK reciprocates zero of that attention. JK is loud, usually unafraid to bring up things that he loves, sharing recipes and his favorite whiskeys, even his love for his members (most recently, JM in an hour long live)

They are trivial yes. To me they mostly convey how often they interact. I agree that Tae is probably aware of what Taekookers think about this, but so is Jk. I absolutely don't agree that Jk reciprocates zero of that attention. Only months ago Jk left one of his Weverse lives with millions of followers only to be able to do an Insta live with Tae. Did Tae force him? Is Jk that weak? Albeit less, Jk does mention Tae, I would say more often than other members, but I have no tally going to actually proof this. But even if Jk doesn't participate in mentioning Tae equally. He does single him out in physicall meetings... which I think are even more pointed. Tae and Jk have been meeting both publicly and privately a lot. Jk clearly participates in that and even enjoys it. Words aren't louder than actions anon. You should also count in person interactions. Tae and Jk seek each other out, they just have different ways of doing it. Tae knows army loves to see and hear about members together. So to me, him sharing comments about Jk is because he knows army will like it. To you that is fanservice, to me it can be both at the same time; Tae spends a lot of time with Jk, he likes to share because it pleases army. I loved that Jk live about Jimin, to me that too was both fanservice and Jk loving Jimin. But for some reason I'm not allowed to say that, but it's okay for people to come into my inbox accusing Tae of all sorts of nasty things.

I also think fandom has to get used to this new way of seeing members. Everyone is so used to getting so much content of members together constantly that this new era of seeing them solo and less together is weird. I think Tae has always singled Jk out. It's just always been more in physical ways (touching, hugging, staring) than actual words maybe. A lot of those moments were always obscured because members interacting as a group is just a different dynamic. I think this solo era shows us more realistic connections between members. Yoongi and Jimin, Jimin and J-hope, J-hope and Tae, Tae and Jk, Jimin and Jk. If Jin weren't in the army I feel we would've had way more Namjoon and Jin pairing. Army is just not used to this and I feel members singling each other out more naturally has just become more clear.

TH does not do this with anyone else, hell he hasn’t mentioned JM in months, supported YG and HS for their album release and enlistment respectively, but that’s about it.

Tae has mentioned Jimin in one of his latest lives. I think they just haven't spent much time together. Jimin has been so busy. Tae has also mentioned Hobi and Jin, but it hasn't been much, I agree. I think Jk is special to Tae, which is why he does mention him. Tae and Jk have both been busy, so them meeting up (while not meeting with other mebers often) should tell us something about their closeness.

Bottom line, TH is not “queercoding” his friendship with JK, nothing about it is inherently queer. He is smart with experience in this industry and knows just what stans pick up on and praise.

I agree that he is not queer coding his relationship with Jk. He is conveying closeness. He has hinted at being queer though, to me that opens up the possibility of a romantic relationship between Jk and Tae. Combining that with how i interpret their interactions, I think they are. It's sad to me how many others won't even consider Tae being queer a possibility. I choose to think well of Tae. To believe in his goodness rather than him being prone to manipulation and deceit.

[powerpolyculeshowdown]

(Well, this got longer that i anticipated, sorry about the wall of text, anxiety made me do it)

Hey, the person that both recommended in asks and submitted Yuurivoice characters, i just saw a tiktok that kinda upset me and it made me kinda paranoid about the possible consequences of my actions so i just wanted to say:

If any of you following this blog ever want to get into the yuurivoice stuff, specifically bittersweet, please, i'm begging you, be respectful of the fact that he has his reasons to probably never make it 100% explicitly canon in the main storyline, don't be a dick/annoying about it and maybe also don't ask about it's canonicity in stream chat, it's been asked and he has answered many times before just watch the old youtube streams.

(And for the love of god, don't be all passive aggressive about him apperantly "profiting" of the idea of the poly by making an non-canon 18+ audio of the three of them for his patreon [which the patreon and by extension the exlusive content on there is basically his main income afaik and he's only made one or two of the poly out of all the monthly content that makes him money] but still "refusing" to make them canon, like that tiktok person did.

Making it sound all like intentionally manipulative, i guess? Like some sort of eqivalent to like a big studio queerbaiting or something?! What the fuck is wrong with some people?! Especially on that godforsaken app?!)

I usually stay away from both most fandoms (especially asmr/audio roleplay type youtuber fandoms) and tiktok (and especially said fandoms on tiktok) but curiosity got the better of me and i checked the yuurivoice tiktok tag and since i don't have a tiktok account i counldn't check the comments on that video to see how other people responded and i've seen some other people complaining about it not being fully canon on tiktok as well but again since i don't usually interact with the fandom it's hard for me to tell if the bad attitude about the ambiguity is a majority or minority kind of thing in the fandom as a whole.

And while i generally trust that most people following you're lovely blog are gonna be respectful, i couldn't help but be anxious about possibly adding even one other person being so negative about this to the fandom through my recommendation.

And like if you read my rambling on my submission, i personally can't relate to how some people seem so hung up on this needing to be so black and white anyway.

It is canon (and explicitly so) that these three people love each other (in whatever way), are family, are gonna stay together and wanna go home together. If i remember correctly he has said before that it seems like some people like to ignore the found family aspect of the story and how being loved unconditionally now is a huge thing for the one of the three that isn't officially dating the other two (the other two being a couple since the start of the story) because of his backstory.

Idk, since he has metioned that this is essentially a piece of emotionally personal vent art in a way, it just seems kinda disrespectful to me how some people go about this, yk?

And personally i find his reasoning in regards to it needing to be an inherently kinda ambigious situation because of the self-insert aspect understandable.

At one point to being asked about if they're canon he said something along the lines of:

"The best answer to that question is actually "You tell me. Are they? ""

(Again sorry for the wall of text, and the negativity, i guess, i just needed to get this off my chest/make sure.)

some people just love being hateful, sorry they're going through that rn...

to anyone that mightve picked up the recommendatio from past asks, please be respectful to the creator i havent listened to yuurivoice myself, but i dont think theres anything wrong w keeping smth ambiguous as long as ur open about that, which from your asks he seems to have been for a while now?? its not queerbaiting if you literally say "ill leave it up to interpretation" especially considering the self insert element of the listener being included, and the creator trying to be respectful

theres also smth to be said here about the expectation of every polyam relationship being a triangle idk. i also dont see the relevance of an 18+ audio w all 3, i dont see how that would be baiting at all. Sorry the creator is having to deal w bullshit for that.

[thepacksurvives]

On a more serious note, I am begging people to understand the difference between queerbaiting and subtext. It isn't that the creators and cast sold a sapphic relationship when there was absolutely none; it's that Rhaenyra and Alicent's romantic feelings for each other are literally THERE and they're everywhere. The issue is, given the context they evolve in, they CANNOT act upon those feelings - and I'd even go as far as to say that one of the reasons that is is because they don't recognize them because of yes, the extremely patriarchal and homophobic Westerosi society, but also because of their age.

And by the time the succession crisis starts, after they've had their first sexual/romantic experiences (though very restricted and violent in Alicent's case) and they finally have the tools to remember and recognize what they felt for each other when they were teenagers, it's too late for them to have their happily every after because they're fighting on opposite sides of a war.

And again, it's not like hotd is hiding Rhaenicent's relationship: it's quite literally the core of the show. Them not being endgame isn't enough to make them queerbait, my gosh. 🙄

“Rhaenicent is queerbait” Crazy how no one cares. It’s really not my fault that their lesbian divorce drama is more interesting than 95% of canon sapphic ships.

[blingyu]

Why I think Byler HAS to be engame

Homophobes stay out, toxic Milevens stay out. This is discussing the Byler ship and why I personally believe it has to be canon. In fact, I think if it isn’t canon it would do a disservice to the show and all that it has built up. 

Im fairly confident we are getting Byler endgame (the 1% is just personal self doubt). For a LONG time I didn’t think about the Byler ship, because I had been through so many queerbaiting ships that go no where in the past. In Stranger Things 3 I definitely got the vibes that Will liked Mike, but I truly thought it’d just be unspoken. After Volume 2 of ST 4, it can’t be unspoke. We as the audience know the truth: Will Byers is in love with Mike Wheeler.

For the longest time I also said that I didn’t care who ended up being canon (Byler vs Mileven) I just cared if it had good writing. I am now of the belief that you cannot have Mileven endgame and it be good writing. This is for a few reasons. 

The Painting (Van) Scene: Will gives Mike his painting. The painting that was supposedly for a girl. Mike immediately smiles at this gift but looks conflicted when Will said it was commissioned by Jane. Will also lied about everything El felt towards Mike, because it was Will who felt these things. Will loves Mike the way Mike wants to be loved. Mike doesn’t love El the way she wants him to love her. El deserves someone who can love her for who she is, not what she does (her powers)

Mike’s Monologue: The consequence of the van scene is the monologue. Mike practically takes those words Will used and gives his own version of the speech. However, he needs Will’s reassurance the whole time. Mike should be able to say I love you to El, without needing someone guiding him. I honestly don’t think that he would’ve ever said I love you if Will wasn’t there basically helping him say it. Also the whole love at first sight thing is bs, in S1 it’s obvious that Mike wasn’t in love with El. He was caring for her, and helping her hide from the bad men. In return, she was helping them find Will. Now whether or not Mike did develop a crush is different, but the fact remains that it wasn’t at first sight. It begs the question of just how much did he lie in this monologue?

The painting plot and Will’s love for Mike is definitely not over: Will lied about the painting. At the end of S4, Mike and El aren’t talking much. I imagine that this could be confusing to Mike, who told El he loved her like she wanted, and Will told Mike she needed him. I definitely think the painting will come up in discussion between Mileven. Mike won’t be happy finding out Will lied, and I think this is going to be a form of conflict between Byler. The only resolution I can see is Will confessing that it was his feelings. It was him who needed Mike. So- we’ve established two things: 1) Mike and El are not in the best place, they might even break up, and 2) Will needs to confess about what happened in the van scene. I think the only satisfying conclusion for these plotlines is Mileven breaking up and Mike realizing he likes Will. Argue with a wall.

Will’s ending being about romantic love and Eleven’s being familial love: I think that this would be the most satisfying conclusion. Eleven and Will are siblings now, but they grew up very different. Will is gay, so he probably thinks that he doesn’t deserve romantic love, he thinks he doesn’t have a chance (remember in season 3, with his mother? “I’m not gonna fall in love”). Will has so much platonic love in his life, as does Eleven. Will hasn’t experienced romance. As a queer person myself, I’m rooting for him, and I root for him to fall in love with his childhood best friend. crazy together. Eleven, on the other hand, needs a strong family. The Byers and Hopper is that for her, but in S5 they’ll finally be all together, and be the family that they’re meant to be. Together as one unit. She didn’t have the best examples of familial love in the lab. She didn’t have platonic or romantic love either, but meeting the party and Mike gave her that. However, as stated earlier, Mike and her are at the end of their ropes. There’s only so much love you have before you have to call it quits. I think with the “From, El” letter that was her being done with Mike. I can’t blame her. This boy does not cherish her like she deserves to be. If you are a fan of El, you have to know she can do much better than whatever this relationship with Mike is. Once you give your all and don’t receive that energy back, you feel the need to move on. I mean, she saved all of Mike’s letters and we see Mike on screen crumple up 2 and throw away one of them. This is a textbook example of not putting in the same effort. 

So yeah, I don’t know how to end this besides saying Byler endgame is the only possibility in my mind now. I don’t see how Mileven could be endgame, and if they were planning on that, they really wrote themselves into a bad spot. I definitely could’ve articulated this better, and there’s probably TONS of things I’m forgetting, but from a story standpoint Will x Mike is the only thing that makes sense going forward.

[sleepynegress]

What is this trend of recent romance arcs that are done well being used to boost and uplift lesser predecessers? First, I noticed that w/ IWTV and all the all-white queerbait being weirdly compared... NOW, it's beeing done with Sauron/Galadriel and Reylo...*facepalm* The reason why these recent turns of good tropes in ships have worked, -the reasons why you need their lens to prop up the lessers that came before is because *they worked the tropes well* and those ones before did. not. In IWTV, the ship is not bait. It's not bland yt dudes in proximity that fandom latched onto because they are in proximity and the showrunner decided to bait you some. In ROP, Halbrand actually IS at a compelling stage...which is what made him accessible for Galadriel... He wasn't a weird incel who smashed his stuff when he got mad. He was truly trying to figure out who he was and where to go next after being at his lowest point and doing evil for thousands of years...(i.e. this isn't some spoiled teenager)... Though Galadriel ultimately made the right choice, (and we know will continue to do so)... In other words, their chemistry and maturity makes this iteration of the enemies/strangers/lovers/enemies trope so interesting and good... These are two hot adults... ULTRA-grown. Who come together for grown-ass reasons. It's also so fun to know where she ended up, and having added context for that. Girl WANTED THAT.

And he tempts her with a grown-ass reason. -I see your light...that will temper my shit choices (because he does regret!) and make our ruling over everything better. Hello, compromise. Love isn't enough... in mature relationships. You have to be looking/moving in the same direction. He tempted her with her goal, in compromise, basically. I'll go your direction, you show me... and WE'LL go. Because I appreciate what you can give us.

And then she turns him down for a grown-ass reason...."You killed my brother, you are too far gone and so am I, so far past it... i.e. I have been HUNTING YOU FOR THIS for hundreds of years!! WTF?!" They both played this brilliantly... She didn't go into a rage...She was more hurt by knowing this wasn't possible. A GROWN response. He didn't try to harm her or beg her. He stopped her from hurting him and presented his case straight out. Like this is what I want us to do now, that you're acknowledging that I'm Sauron...Then he took her no, and left... didn't hurt nobody on the way out. These are ancient beings, who are well past most of the experiences of life, jaded beauties who basically had that "oh no...this person is making me feel things..." happen (ironic in a fantasy) who'll always wonder... what if? Not two kids, one evolving idealist, the other spoiled and brash. P.S.

OH SHIT... just remembered one delicious detail. He didn't stop her blade at first, because HE. KNEW. she would stop it herself. But did the second time she did, because yeah... he read correctly that she was serious that time. But again... he never deigned to think fighting her for this was the way.

[wren-kitchens]

actually im gonna make an addition, if two characters who happen to be the same gender are extremely close, and it's never specified as romantic, that is not always queerbaiting. in fact, that can very easily be queer as well. why, you might ask?

queerplatonic relationships.

i am once again begging you guys to remember that romance is not the most important and meaningful relationship type two characters can have, and that sometimes people are aroace.

if you see two incredibly close characters who have never once expressed any romantic attraction for one another, and there have never been any hints aside from them caring deeply for each other? that can VERY easily just be a qpr, or literally just two friends.

obviously, i understand that queerbaiting is a genuine issue that happens far too often for my liking, and i am not in any way trying to say that it doesnt happen. however, if you cry queerbait at every thing you see, the word is going to lose its meaning, because there are so many instances where you just haven't understood the meaning of a relationship, or you are claiming a real life person is queerbaiting because you are being parasocial.

im annoyed and a little pedantic so can i just say as a blanket statement

queerbaiting is when the promotion for a FICTIONAL STORY intentionally hints towards two characters having a romantic relationship, without any intention to follow through in the show, in order to get queer people watching without discouraging the homophobic enjoyers of the show

queerbaiting is NOT:

a celebrity who you think is queer because theyre gnc or they have a 'vibe'. that is a real person and they cannot queerbait

two friends of the same gender pretending to flirt with each other for fun. those are real people and they cannot queerbait

a show with two characters of the same gender who are canonically friends that YOU PERSONALLY think would be better in a relationship. that's not bating, that's shipping, and subject to opinion

there are more but those are the main examples of people misunderstanding what queerbaiting is and being mad at something that isn't actually a problem