#i refuse to do the ep number math. or any math at all for that matter

[notallthosewho-wanderarelost]

Real quick scattering of thoughts on Loki 1x02 and x03 before I watch the newest episode. I watched them pretty much at the same time so it’s a two-for-one post. Here be spoilers for episode 3! On mobile so no cut again, sorry.

Spoilers ahead. You’ve been warned.

Okay. In no particular order but attempting to start with ep 2 first:

Loki trying to get info on the Timekeepers and the TVA in ep 2 and being blocked by the most bored archive librarian ever was hilarious. The whole sequence of him trying to get her attention only for her to completely ignore him until he rang the bell was creepy but so funny.

Loki’s reaction to getting the details on Ragnarok made me so sad. :( Same, Loki. SAME. I’m also still gutted Asgard was destroyed and I refuse to even watch the movie ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ But him going to look at that in the first place made me wonder if maybe in the back of his mind Loki’s coming up with a plan to save Asgard? (Or at least, one version of Asgard in the multiverse.) I would love that. I want Asgard back in general and was hoping for Thor 4, but having Loki be the one to save Asgard would be SO fitting. He may be adopted but he’s still an Asgardian at heart, truly. Having Loki be the one to save Asgard would be a great way to show him finally acknowledging that and have all the Asgardians acknowledge it too.

We have an official population for MCU Asgard! 9719 people. That fits. It’s about twice the size of a pretty small suburban town. Asgard is SMALL. It just doesn’t have the space for a lot of people. It’s still a city, but Asgard the Realm has other things on it besides just the city, so it can’t have a huge population.

I wonder what the official population of New Asgard is when we see it in Endgame? And how many Asgardians come back post-Blip? This would really all depend on how many people made it through Hela’s rule and onto the ship during Ragnarok- and then half of them would’ve been killed by Thanos in the beginning of Infinity War. Would half of the remainder have been Snapped away at the end of IW, or would Thanos leave them out since he already halved their population? File under questions Marvel will probably never answer. Also file under “Thanos continues to be really bad at math.” (Should probably go look at the New Asgard sign again to check, but I don’t think it listed population.)

Loki annoying Mobius by messing with his salad was great. Loki annoying Mobius in general was great.

Loki letting the goats free in Pompeii made me think he might have a liking for goats, which means I now have a headcanon that Loki was friends with Thor’s goats as a kid and would sometimes let them loose to get their assistance with pranks. Thank you show, for cute kid Loki headcanons.

Tom Hiddleston probably had a BLAST yelling at people in Latin in character as Loki, and good for him!

Sylvie’s entrance sequence at the beginning of the episode with the fight scene vs the TVA set to “I Need a Hero” was amazing. I haven’t seen Shrek in a while but this might just reach the same levels of A+ “I Need A Hero” song usage as the Shrek sequence.

Speaking of the beginning of the episode, the Ren Faire setting was SO good. Great way to get laughs, and it made me want to go to a Ren Faire again.

The Roxxcart setting for the big encounter later in the episode made me flash back on all the times Roxxon’s appeared in the MCU. Two main thoughts: 1. I so want a Jane!Thor movie where the main villain is Dario Agger, evil Roxxon CEO and Minotaur. Preferably working with a better version of Malekith (from another universe probably) like in comics, because as much as I love Thor 2 my one complaint is that their version of Malekith was SO LAME. Especially compared to comics!Malekith. Plus an Agger + Malekith teamup would mean both the Nine Realms AND Earth are in danger, by definition. Thor 5 please, Marvel. 2. I really, really miss Cloak and Dagger and that show deserved so much better.

(Our) Loki’s perpetual insistence that he’s better and that the plot (pun intended) is about him is both funny and also a little sad- because he knows, or at least thinks, that if he stops insisting those things, everyone will stop paying any attention to him whatsoever. And he needs attention.

Poor Mobius probably felt so betrayed at the end of this episode. :(

Onward to episode 3!

This was by far my favorite episode so far. I LOVE Sylvie. I love her and Loki’s dynamic. I love that we get Loki talking to someone he considers an equal about some very personal things, and that Sylvie does the same thing with him. They understand each other in a way nobody else has. Because they’re the same person, sort of. I’ve taken to calling them “alternate reality twins” and that’s what I’ll keep calling them unless told otherwise.

They also annoy each other in a way nobody else can. And it’s hilarious. They look equally annoyed at the other not falling for their tricks and equally annoyed at needing the other’s help before they really start to bond and I LOVE ALL OF IT. I also feel like they adopt each other a lot quicker than either would be willing to admit, and then they’re annoyed at that! Loki yelling “you’re so weird!” at Sylvie made me go “OH they’re bickering like siblings!!!” and that was pretty early on! I’m an only child but that had peak sibling energy to me. Even them trying to trick and outdo each other had sibling energy most of the time.

Their earlier fight when they first get to Lamentis, before they realize where they are, had some VERY quality quips and also really had me wondering who would win in a fight between the two of them. Sylvie seems to have more physical strength, and she’s got a sword instead of daggers so longer reach, but Loki has skill and he has tricks. I think with his skill at magic (he can TELEPORT?! Probably only a few feet and probably limited by where he can see but that’s SO COOL!!! I don’t think we knew he could do that?!) Loki would likely run rings around Sylvie IF there were no people around for her to enchant. And assuming that she wasn’t able to set any traps beforehand, because Sylvie has proven well able to set traps to take down people who should be at a major advantage against her. Otherwise, I think Sylvie would win. She seems to have better physical training than our Loki, and if there were any people around for her to enchant he’d have to contend with them too. And if Sylvie could lay traps ahead of time, then it could go either way (you never can tell with a Loki, much less two) but I think Loki would probably lose. Loki is just as tricky as she is but that seems to be something she’s had a lot of practice in. Loki is more about confusing opponents with illusions and duplicates and talking his way around people. Sylvie sets traps instead, and is more comfortable/better at using brute physical force.

Speaking of enchanting, me while watching episode 2: “Hey, these mind controlling powers remind me of Enchantress’ powers!”

Sylvie in episode 3: calls her powers “enchanting”

Me: “OH.”

So Sylvie seems to be a composite of 3 characters. 1. Lady Loki, as in Loki when identifying as female. (There’s also that time from before they said Loki was genderfluid and a shapeshifter and back when Loki was still evil when he possessed Sif’s body and went by Lady Loki, but we don’t talk about that.) 2. Amora the Enchantress, a major Thor character/villain who uses magic to “enchant” people into doing what she wants-yes this is definitely a cringey “magically enchants people into loving her, consent-issues-out-the-wazoo” evil seductress stereotype in old comics, but it’s gotten better recently. And 3. Sylvie Lushton, the much lesser-known second Enchantress, who was a regular teenage human girl when after a Ragnarok (don’t remember which one, there have been multiple but this would’ve been early 2000s) Loki for shits and giggles decided to make her think she was Amora and give her the powers to match. She was on the Dark Reign-era (aka when Norman Osborn was in charge of SHIELD and the Avengers) version of the Young Avengers, the Young Masters of Evil, and that’s where I know her from. She’s a great character- she genuinely wants to do good and help people, but her brain is a bit messed up by the number Loki did on it, so she gets confused. I believe she’s currently in comic book limbo after Amora found out about her a while back, got pissed at her for stealing her name and her whole Thing, and tossed her somewhere dangerous on the World Tree while saying something about how if she can survive it then she’ll prove she deserves the name Enchantress. She sadly hasn’t been seen since as far as I know.

So each of those characters have similar characteristics with Loki’s Sylvie. Sylvie 1. Is a Loki who is female (Lady Loki), 2. Was presumably raised on Asgard and uses her magic to “enchant” people via a form of mind control into doing what she wants (Amora the Enchantress), 3. Is named Sylvie (Sylvie Lushton, Encanhtress II). Also worth noting that both Amora and Sylvie Lushton have blond hair, and so does the MCU’s Sylvie. All three characters also have green colored magic!

May turn the above bullets into their own post just for informational purposes. Also, when we said we wanted Enchantress in the MCU, this is not what we meant. Stop with the Monkey’s Paw-style wish granting, Marvel! (Looking at you, X-Men comics’ response to us wanting more Wanda.)

Anyway. Will round off with my favorite thing: everything on the train. Everything on the train was WONDERFUL.

Loki telling Sylvie about Frigga and how she taught him magic and then demonstrating the fireworks made me tear up. 🥺 Right in the feels. I miss Frigga a lot. I miss Asgard/the old Thor franchise in general a lot, but this is about Frigga. She was AMAZING and I miss her. Forever love the detail that Tom and Rene came up with the idea on the set of Thor 1 that Frigga is the one who taught Loki magic and fighting and how that informed their characters’ dynamic to the point of it being canonically discussed later. There’s a great Thor 2 deleted scene where Frigga talks to Thor about this exact thing. Frigga is such a fave of mine.

Sylvie telling Loki about her own past in turn made me very curious what her life was like and what the differences are. She seemed to have had a really hard time of it as a kid and I just want to hug her. (I also want to hug Loki, but that isn’t news.) Loki has had a very tough time, but really only after finding out he was adopted. He doesn’t appear to have had many friends on Asgard before (though I headcanon that he was friends with Lorelai before her exile, and since it’s my headcanon I imagine a similar situation with Amora, if not quite as close a friendship because comics Loki gets along better with Lorelai than her sister) but he at least had a family who loved him and who he loved, and a status as a prince that would’ve given him a good life and protection. Sylvie doesn’t seem to have had any of that as a kid. :(

“Surely there were some would-be princesses? Or perhaps a prince?” CANONICALLY BISEXUAL LOKI YES! YES.

Comics Loki is canonically both bisexual and genderfluid! Explicitly discussed on page, multiple times, and expounded on by writers too. (One of the most heartwarming Odin moments for me- yes, Odin does have heartwarming moments!- is when he’s telling his kids he loves them and he says something to the effect of “my son, my daughter, my child who is both.” The latter is Loki, the former are Thor and Angela. I might still be bitter over MCU Hela taking Angela’s place in the family sorry not sorry. This was in Original Sin: Thor and Loki, for anyone wondering.) I tend to default to he/him pronouns when talking about Loki because Loki tends to be male more in appearances, and also partly because it’s what I’m used to, but when Loki is clearly female I’ll of course switch to she/her. I have seen people use they/them pronouns for Loki too. I don’t think Marvel has ever said what pronouns Loki prefers though.

Speaking of which: I realize the “Sex: fluid” on Loki’s info card in episode 1 was probably foreshadowing Sylvie, but I kind of want to also read it as a nod to Loki being genderfluid. (Loki is also a shapeshifter, so gender would = sex in this case.) Whether it would be a nod to specifically comics Loki or also to MCU Loki is anyone’s guess as of now. We’ll find out I guess, or if it turns out to be strictly headcanon than it’s whatever floats your boat. :)

Back to the train scene!! Sylvie loudly protesting that she can’t sleep near people she doesn’t trust and then promptly falling asleep across from Loki a few minutes later made me emotional. ALTERNATE REALITY TWINS. Also VERY much a parallel to Loki falling asleep across from Mobius last episode.

Loki realizing that Asgard was really his home and his family really was his family only to also realize that he’ll never see either again and deciding to handle this by getting ABSOLUTELY DRUNK is SO ASGARDIAN OF HIM. I cannot. He even did the “Another!” *smashes glass* thing just to bring the point home.

Oh gosh, LOKI SINGING IN ASGARDIAN. FEEEEEEELS. I know, it’s actually Norwegian. I wonder a bit why they didn’t use Icelandic instead? Anyway, this was lovely and I love that going by the translation it’s a song of longing to go home, and it mentions Idunn’s apples of immortality. Apparently the full version of the song is going to be on the soundtrack and I’m so excited for that.

Loki’s metaphor of “love is a dagger” was actually quite good, he and Sylvie just lost the thread of it right at the end there. I wrote about this in tags somewhere, I’ll copy it in here later.

Edit: here’s an edited version of what I wrote on this post: This was a great metaphor until it got away from him. So close to the point (heh) and then they veered right away. Let me finish this for them: “Love is a dagger. It’s a weapon for far away and up close. You can see yourself in it. It’s beautiful. You have to give it to the right person.” So what this scene tells us about Loki is that he’s been hurt by love because it hasn’t been real. Or hasn’t felt real to him. Maybe he’s given it to the wrong people, or maybe he couldn’t tell who the right people were. (And if this is in reference to his family then I think he’s still too close to the revelation of his identity to be able to think clearly about the situation. Because his family DID love him! Even Odin. He just lost sight of that with everything happening.) Love is also about trust. And Loki doesn’t trust easily.

I really love this quote and this scene. Kinda want to do a “Love is a dagger” graphic of i ever have time.

I also wouldn’t be surprised if Loki and Sylvie come back to this conversation and come to a more satisfying conclusion. I hope that happens actually.

Sylvie using her headpiece against an opponent in the train fight instantly made me think of Wonder Woman. A+. Also, I haven’t mentioned yet but I love the fact that Sylvie’s headpiece looks exactly like God(dess) of Stories Loki’s from Agent of Asgard. Loki’s Ragnarok headpiece definitely had big AoA Loki vibes, but Sylvie’s headpiece is much closer- mostly it’s smaller, which is very Agent of Asgard Loki in general, but the one horn being cut off is specifically a God(dess) of Stories Loki thing and I love that they pulled from that.

Loki throwing the dagger and missing because he’s drunk was hilarious. Not good for Sylvie, but hilarious to watch. Don’t fight while drunk, Loki. Also, he threw “love” at Sylvie and I laughed when I realized that.

I didn’t realize until I saw a parallel gifset of it why Loki carefully going up to Sylvie after her scream felt so familiar- it’s just like how he went up to Thor after Thor overturned the table in Thor 1. The CONTINUINTY!! Absolutely amazing.

While trying to save the Ark Loki was probably thinking a lot about what he saw in the TVA clips of his own people trying to escape Asgard during Ragnarok and that hits kind of hard.

Loki apparently using telekinesis to stop the column from falling on him and Sylvie threw me off a lot until I saw another gifset that included the moment in Thor 2 (trailers only, I think) when he finds out Frigga is dead and all the furniture close to him breaks and flies away from him. The pose was even the same as when he stopped the column. I think he can sort of... push things away from him? (Almost like a Force Push 🤔) He seems to need to stop and tense up his arms while he does it though. And it doesn’t have the green effect the rest of his magic does, which is odd.

Speaking of Loki’s powers, I’ve said this in tags for sure but I’m so happy they’re FINALLY letting Loki hit people with green magic bolts. He does tend to prefer more subtle uses of magic, but I still can’t believe it took over 4 movies for that to happen. It’s kind of a no-brainer magic attack- probably exactly why Loki prefers other things- but you’d think he would’ve done it at least once after 4 movies.

I saw a post point out that by the end of the episode, Sylvie has lost both her headpiece and her cloak/robe thing, which makes me wonder if she’s going to get a new outfit by the end of the show. Or at least different accessories. I’m also curious if she’s going to take up the Enchantress moniker by the end of the show.

Finishing this with theme analysis and theory time:

The revelation that TVA agents used to be variants and were somehow reprogrammed makes so much sense. There’s something immediately shifty about the idea of 3 Time Keepers dictating the fate of everyone in infinite multiverses, and this just solidifies the hint that the Time Keepers are going to be the overall Big Bads. Which makes sense, narratively! But this shifts the TVA agents from villains to victims. Mobius gets to stay sympathetic and so does Sylvie, AND once the TVA agents find out about their origins it puts the same choice onto them that Loki has. They all have a choice now about who they’re going to be. They’re not who they thought they were, but are they going to let themselves be defined by what other people (here, the Time Keepers) think they should be, or are they going to be who they want to be.

This is exactly what Loki: Agent of Asgard is about, by the way. And I know I said in the last post that Loki’s greatest villain is himself, but I’m going to amend that because I didn’t say it quite right. Loki’s greatest villain is his evil self. Loki the god of evil, the Loki that is the villain. Loki (and all the other Asgardians) in Agent of Asgard is genuinely a god, and AoA tells us that gods are defined by belief- they are what people believe them to be. That’s how they exist. So because so many people believe Loki is an evil villain, the universe tries to twist him to fit that role. The plot of AoA is Loki trying to avoid that fate, to be better, be who he wants to be. It’s a meta story. It’s Loki trying to break free of the narrative he’s been part of up until that point. And eventually he manages to break the fourth wall itself and take control of his own narrative by becoming the god of stories. He controls his own story and it no longer matters what other people think he is, only what he thinks of himself. Nobody else gets to change or define him.

AoA’s villain is a future version of Loki that does go back to being evil. He’s basically the cosmic force- destiny, the narrative itself, etc- that’s trying to fit Loki into the “evil” box personified. Loki is seemingly taking that idea and subbing in a different personification for that same idea of lack of choice: the Time Keepers. We know from the Miss Minutes short in episode 1 that the Time Keepers want one timeline. We don’t know if that’s actually to prevent a multiversal war like the short suggests or if that’s just propaganda. When Loki tries to find out more about the war or about the beginning or end of time in episode 2, he can’t access those documents. Something doesn’t seem right there.

Edit: Also, in episode 2 Loki compares the TVA to Asgard by saying both the TVA agents and Asgardians are equally stupid. The reveal of who the TVA agents are adds a new dimension to that comparison. They both see themselves as guardians of the world around them, special, but really they’re no more special than the people they’re fighting to protect. Or in other words, they’re only as “special” (“heroic,” really) as they make themselves.

Also an edit: damn I just realized the continued stupidity of R*gnarok having Fenris and Odin in the same movie and Odin dies but get killed by Fenris. Asgardians have a saying about watching for wolves’ teeth.

I’ve seen the theory around that Sylvie might be a former TVA agent (which seems to be backed up by the midseason trailer I very belatedly saw, oh my GOD TINY SYLVIE!!!!! But also oh no tiny Sylvie at the TVA :() and I really like that. It makes sense. Maybe she went rogue because she realized the TVA is preventing people from choosing for themselves. Maybe she even knows what it is the Time Keepers actually want. Or maybe she’s doing this just for herself because she didn’t enjoy being brainwashed by the TVA and she doesn’t like being told who to be! That is after all part of “what makes a Loki a Loki,” even if she doesn’t use that name anymore.

I’m also wondering (hoping?) if maybe her being a former TVA agent could explain why she’s a mashup of different characters, instead of it just being Marvel mashing characters together because they can. This is mostly wild speculation, but could the TVA possibly have put multiple people’s timelines/memories inside her head? What if she’s in universe an amalgamation of a Loki, an Amora, and/or a Sylvie?

We’ve had some clips of what looks like a Thor 1 era Loki in front of the throne on Asgard- which looks different to me; maybe Loki redecorated? We’ve also gotten a shot of Loki in front of a ruined NYC skyline, including Avengers Tower. Maybe we’ll get an episode where Loki wins and we’ll see different timelines where he wins in different ways, until he realizes that this isn’t actually what he wants?

Whoops this got long??? Thanks for reading if you read this far!

[douchebagbrainwaves]

CAN YOU LIKE

Or better still, go work for a big company of mediocre ones, where bad ideas are caught by committees instead of the angel's. With a desktop application, you can protest that you've been treated unfairly. You shouldn't worry about prestige. Anything that gets you the growth you need is ipso facto worth exploring. To my surprise, they said no, so I read it, you've only read it, and group themselves according to whatever shared interest they feel most strongly. There your job is largely a tautology but worth remembering all the same valuation: that would be the cranks that car engines had before they got electric starters. However, it was years after high school it wouldn't have seemed like much of a political commissar in a Red Army unit. The phase whose growth defines the startup is already trying as hard as I could, and most have to learn programming languages you think employers want, like you could before. Peace Of all the useful things we can say for sure what they want. Not in the Enron way, of course, but educated people rarely did, because they'd never do as pedestrians—like tailgate people, or the extra leverage in productivity that comes from weakness.1 Then in the mid 20th century.2

Which means that even if we wanted to improve, but if he does well he'll gradually be in a position of strength without being profitable. The ones everyone wants to invest in deals where some reputable private VC firm is willing to act as lead investor.3 I don't intend to make any more iPhone applications unless absolutely necessary. In that case, you may not get any reward in the forseeable future. Holding a Program in One's Head August 2007 A good programmer working intensively on his own code can hold it in his mind the way a boss can. But their founders, like parents, truly believe they do.4 Well, therein lies half the work of optimization. The feedback you get from engaging directly with your earliest users will be determined by the amount of the work that seems formidable from the moment it's created indeed, is deliberately intended to be is represented by Milton.5 Again, hard to say now that open source operating systems already have a lot.6 We've raised $800,000, whichever is greater.7 Programs composed of expressions. The topic sentence is your own status as an outsider, don't be ruled by plans.

Notes

The Mac number is a particularly alarming example, the growth rate has to split hairs that fine about whether a suit would violate the patent pledge, it's shocking how much they lied to them more professional. They then grant the founders are willing to endure hardships, but he refused because a part has come unscrewed, you might see something like the application of math to real problems, but some do. If a company is common, to drive the old days it was considered the most convincing pitch can't sell an idea is bad. If they were going back to the decline in families watching TV together afterward.

Interestingly, the last they ever need.

Life isn't an expression; how can I count you in a way that's rare among technology companies between them generate a lot more frightening in those days, then used a technicality to get all that matters financially for investors. Super-angels tend not to grow big by transforming consulting into a pattern, as it sounds like something cooked up, and a wing collar who had small corpora. We fund used to retrieve orders, view statistics, and as an adult.

Others will say this is to claim retroactively I said that a startup to an adult.

But if they don't want to either. At Princeton, 36% of the founders. VCs.

Seneca Ep.

Though it looks great when a wolf appears, is that the money was to become a so-called signalling risk is also the fashion leaders. Perhaps the solution is to be sharply differentiated. 99,—and probably especially those that have little to bring corporate bonds; a new version of Explorer. But increasingly what builders do is fund medical research labs; commercializing whatever new discoveries the boffins throw off is as frightening as it might help to be a lot of money.

[jq37]

Ok last one. What's the tea on Prompocalypse?

So...that was something, huh?

This is gonna be quick and dirty (relatively speaking, it’s still too long already as I come back and make this edit) because I have work tomorrow and there are def stuff I want to talk about more and I will (esp if I get asks) but I have work in the morning so let’s just get some words onto the screen aight.

The episode titles have had a pretty consistent naming scheme up until this point so the one word, non alliterative title had me at a 7 on the foreboding scale before we even started.

Everyone was in prom wear! And lol, Siobhan is the only one in a dress. That's almost exactly what I pictured Adaine wearing to prom. That exact shade of blue-green. And Emily looks like a waiter. 

I wonder what Bren's plan was for if they'd thwarted the crowning entirely. Got baller initiative, some nat 20's on crown keepaway and smashing, and killed Penelope/Dayne before the bad guys could finish them. Would he just try to crown someone else or would the curb stompage have stood? Not that Goldenhoard would have been a pushover I imagine but jeez. He couldn't have been as strong as his true form.

Sidenote: One of my favorite little character things is Zac and Siobhan helping each other do math.

Fig dimension dooring Gorgug to the stage and then skateboarding away. Amazing.

"I'm going for her crown vs. his crown."/"In this climate?"

OK, shoutout to Zac fo asking for those bombs because they are OP as hell. 

I love how they just charged in and started trying to kill people, no questions asked, no explaining themselves to the other students, just bombs out immediately. 

My man Riz just couldn't catch a break. I understand the out of story reason the police haven't shown up is that Murph was rolling garbage, but what's taking them so long in story? Where? Is? Sklonda?

"I'm going to jump on the back of the Hangman."/”Presumptuous."

But also, by the end of the fight he's just like, "Do anything any party member tells you to!"

Lou losing it over Riz claiming best friend status. But damn, they kinda are the closest to each other in the party. Wild. 

"You know what baby girl? Why don't you ready an action until I get there," said Siobahn to Ally, hilariously for a number of reasons. 

They keep saying Teen Wolf and I have no idea what part of the movie they're referring to. This is the second ep in a row.

Lou trying to recruit a super sad Ragh.

They started off this fight really strong. Doing double digit damage and rolling over 20s. I was like, "Damn, they've leveled up. They're doing great!" Of course, we were still in the first third of the ep so I didn't know where we were going. But Lou was right. "Wild first turn."

"And then I shoot him."

I'm half convinced Riz jinxed everyone by saying, "Remember the corn fight?"

Kristen cast ONE spell and then said, "I don't have a lot of spells left." THAT'S WHAT HAPPENS WHEN YOU TRY AND SAVE ADAINE'S WORTHLESS FAMILY. YOU ARE THE HEALER. YOU NEED ALL YOUR SPELLS.

The students running to get food on the way out. Mood.

They messed Dayne *up*. This was the high point of the battle, objective-wise.

Sidenote, why would Dayne have needed to be at the Seacaster Manor raid? It feels dumb to ris him when he was such an important part of things. Was it literally just because he didn't like Fabian? And he disliked him enough to try and kill his parents? Yeesh.

Kirsten @ Ragh flipping out over Dayne: I see what's going on here.

Ragh really made this fight harder than it had to be. If Gorgug hadn't been grappled before Penelope got the crown they might have had a fighting chance.

So Penelope just straight up let what's her face (Sam I think) get palimpsested? Major yikes. Like I know it's a good thing they killed her but I kinda wish they hadn't so we could learn exactly what the insane thought process was there. She comes off as crazier than Biz because Biz was trapping girls he didn't respect, not his actual friends, you know? Like, did Goldenhoard say he was gonna make her an actual queen or something? Because all this isn't worth just being prom queen.

"Sometimes you make a villain and they die in the first two rounds," said Brennan, as if he didn't know what he was about to unleash on the party. Geez, I don't know how long they would have survived if Penelope and Dayne had been in play for a large chunk of the fight.

Murph's idea to blind him was a good one.

I almost was like, "Thank God Gorthalax got kidnapped," because that was the only good explanation for him seemingly ditching Fig.

Ally: Was that his best friend? (Emily: What./Siobahn: NO.)

"I'm like an advertisement for chicken."/"What chicken adverts are you watching?"/"It's like if you went to prom and there was a dangling chicken leg."/"What prom did you go to?"

Fabian full on clocking Penelope in the face like he's playing Punch Out.

"I killed my father today. Yes."

"This is against the rules but I don't care." In hindsight, this feels like foreshadowing.

"Well, that's the risk you take when you go to Aguefort Adventuring Academy."

"Get on the fucking right team!"

Lou (a la Gimli): And *my* D6.

Brennan pulling out that GIANT final form Goldenhoard figure.

For some reason, it didn't occur to me that he'd be just a legit dragon in his true form. I was picturing like the lich from Adventure Time or something.

Also, I was kinda expecting him to "Drop the act," and majorly change in personality but he was basically the same. Just a dick.

Gorgug rolls a 4. Brennan pauses for a second. The entire party: No.

Zac goes all in every time no matter how dumb it is. I love him.

"Father, stop this."/"What?"

"Not clever enough for the library and not brave enough for the world." Oww, I felt that one. Did Brennan have that waiting to use or did he come up with it on the spot because that was brutal.

Goldenhoard goes through the whole party, trying to hit their weakest point and he gets what might have been a great hit on Fig (You're so unloveable your father would rather go to hell than stay with you.) but she just says, "You have got to stop flirting with me," and completely diffuses the moment. As unflappable as Brennan is, he had to take a sec to jump back into the insult parade after that.

"I'm going to eat you."/"OH MY GOD."/"I'm not making it sexual!"

"*The* ball, bitch."

OK, I was wondering what the deal was with Riz's dad. Because giving him that gun implies a chance to kill his dad's killer but I didn't think it could be Goldenhoard directly because of the binding. That's another point towards Riz being the one to finish him off.

Wild that they weren't able to get any of the kids (save Ragh eventually) to help them with the fight. You go to adventuring school! Cowards! You would never make it at Sunnydale and that school was mostly normals!

The one dude still just getting food while Goldenhoard has turned into a full on dragon.

When an 18 wasn't a high enough roll for Fig to make her fear check, that's when I realized my earlier apprehension wasn't misplaced. I mean, maybe it should have been when he turned into a dragon but it is what it is.

But Fig skating away and then going, "Just kidding bitch," because she got it on the very next turn was hilarious.

Kristen still not being 100% on whether Ragh is gay or not.

Who was gonna kick Ragh off the team for being gay? Maybe Daybreak would have but Gorthalax def wouldn't have. Maybe he means he would have been bullied off?

Siobahn to Kristen/Ally: Stop outing students.

I can't believe Gorgug had to kiss Ragh in the middle of this fight to get his head in the game.

Also, I didn't get into it before because I knew this scene was coming but poor Ragh. Like, I could have told him things were gonna go this way and he's a big dummy for thinking otherwise, but poor dude. And then he finally gets it together and he gets wrecked.

"EMILY, I SOMETIMES CAN'T TELL WHEN YOU'RE REALLY FUCKING WITH ME OR NOT."

Siobhan doing the D&D equivalent of reminding the teacher they had homework.

The amount of dice that Brennan rolled for Goldenhoard was truly horrifying. That's permadeath damage.

AND HE GOT THE HEALER DOWN FIRST. This was the next moment I started sensing a TPK.

"HOMOPHOBE!"/"You hit both of the gay ones!"

Kristen taking damage from Goldenhoard's libertarian speech.

I find it such a Fig move to be like, "Can I use charm person to snap Adaine out of it," instead of the spell actually made for that purpose. 

Rolling low perception and getting no information is the worst because then it's like...OK I know something's out there but what dammit?

When Brennan said Fig would have to do opposed athletics against Adaine, that was the first time I was like, "Oh thank God she's so weak."

Murph forgetting to uncanny dodge until midway through the ep was uncharacteristic. Really shows how wild the fight was. 

"This kid likes to get his ass beat to a soundtrack."

Fabian refusing to just use the stairs like a normal person. 

Penelope going, "What's your deal?" like she's not helping an evil dragon who wants to rule the world. 

JAWBONE

JAWBONE JAWBONE JAWBONE

My man Jawbone shot way up on the list of cool adults today.

For real, the scene with Jawbone and Adaine was my second favorite moment of the episode and it would have been my favorite if not for a bit of divine intervention later. 

I already made a post about this but Jawbone notices Adaine flipping the hell out and he asks her if she has panic attacks and if her parents gave her any meds for it. She responds in, like, the smallest, most broken and defeated voice with a tiny head shake, "My parents just left and I don't know where they are." Gah, my heart. She was half crying. I was half awake and being kicked in the face with the full force of human emotion. It was a lot. I felt like I was a kid watching that one scene from Fresh Prince again but British-er. She gets that her parents suck and she hates them but she's 14. Everyone wants their parents to love them. It's like in our DNA.

And then Jawbone launches into the wildest motivational speech ever (including all of Kristen's, which is saying a lot) which starts with him sucking off a border patrol agent. (You understand me?/No!)

Ally, MVP of Terrible Speeches: *That* was the point?

Siobhan trying not to crack up and break character throughout that whole scene was great.

I love that Brennan was clearly trying to not encourage people to mess with their med dosage irl because he was very specific about that but also he was like, "A dragon is about to end the world so please shotgun this bottle of magic Xanax and hop on that bike."

I love that Adaine has all the magic stuff in her inventory and then also Xanax.

Aww, Jawbone offered to let her live with him because her house burned down. (I guess that info was on the news?)

And then Adaine rolls a 20 with the help from her meds (and buffs) right away! It's great when the dice cooperate.

"I came here to FUCK SHIT UP. And help children."

"Jawbone rules. I'm so glad we helped him get his life together."

Jawbone is such a sketch person but such a good counselor.

Siobhan calling Goldenhoard and absolute fucking unit sayed be at 5 in the morning when I watched this.

"I AM A CHILD. YOU ARE ATTACKING A BUNCH OF CHILDREN YOU COWARD."

"Then why is your dick out?" Adaine joining in Fig w/ the taunting Goldenhoard via accusations of flirting. 

"Why are you guys partially singed?"/"Because he's been attacking us Dad! Also Dad, he kind of used to come on to me all the time."

"Play the drums more and we'll have a full band on stage!"/"...Instead."

"You ruined prom!"/"I RUINED PROM?"

At this point I was thinking, "Geez, there's not a lot of episode left and Penelope isn't even dead yet. How could they possibly defeat Goldenhoard AND have time for tying up loose ends?" TPK vibes increase.

Adaine getting a nat 20 on Arcana, "Yeah it is what it is. You're screwed."

Hell yeah for Adaine giving Goldenhoard her low divination roll to ensure her lightning bolt hit. Not that it ended up mattering that much but still. Sick.

"Well you could have told me before this very moment!"/"I was dead!"

I just checked on the stats of an an adult red dragon in 5E and it's got 256 HP. 256! And look at the other stats! They're wild.

"This is the number of dice?"/"Yeah."/"God."

Fig goes down. Their secondary healer. So, not good. Very not good.

Brennan letting Emily burn Goldenhoard's tie as she passes out because Emily refuses to do nothing.

And Riz goes down too! The one with the med kit! At this point I was like, there is no way this can end well.

"How far away is the hospital?" I love it when they try just normal solutions in this magic game like calling their parents and going to the hospital.

It is an hour and 47 minutes into the episode before Adaine remembers she's wearing a magic coat that can make her anything (within reason). Which, to be fair, it took me a little bit too but, in my defense, I'm not staring at her character sheet.

Real talk, I didn't think she was gonna get anything from the jacket from that ask. Something to beat Kalvaxis is such a big ask.

When Brennan started going into the jacket stuff I was like, this is a really weird deus ex machina if that's what this is. But also, the kids have been hilariously chill with just having Adaine walk around in a jacket filled with people.

There was a lot to unpack there and I'll got to it in another post but I can't do another 4k epic this week y'all. I have work in the morning.

Adaine yelling for Basrar to get them their ice cream before they freaking die.

Aww Gorthalax tried to heal Fig instead of attacking.

"Daddy that was a waste of a turn."

Gorgug who has a million hit points went down and all the healers are down. There are less than ten minutes left in the episode. TPK for sure, I'm thinking.

Adaine flipping people off with a vengeance today.

Also the fact that she totally forgot that she could ask for a healing potion which is totally a thing that she almost def would have been able to get is hilarious. I mean it wouldn't have been as funny if the episode ended differently but, as it stands, hilarious.

"Does the Hangman know medicine?"

"What about this student? Is he studying to be a cleric?"

Adaine is down. That's everyone down but Fabian. Three and a half minutes left. And that's when I realize. There's not enough time for a good ending, but there's not enough time for a bad ending either. But there's no S2. This is an anthology series. What's going on here my sleepy 6am brain is saying.

Fig giving her dad bardic inspiration while passed out because Emily is Emily.

Everyone (exceptt Riz) was making their saves. I'm thinking, "Is next season different characters, same setting. Maybe a bunch of years in the future? Legacy characters?" I'm trying to put together the fact that this is the finale with 2 minutes left with the fact that they're playing different characters next season. The pieces aren't fitting. 

And that's because I couldn't have predicted what was about to happen.

Ally, clearly joking says, "Can I roll for a nat 20 and just be alive?"

Brennan, barely thinking, says, "Sure, go for it," as casually as if he was okaying a perception check.

Murph and Lou are cracking up at the absurdity of the ask. 

Ally says, "This is to the corn god," half solem, half smiling.

Siobhan holds her hand over the dice like she's blessing them.

"I know I left for a while," Ally starts as the dice are cast and...

"NAT 20 MOTHERFUCKER!"

Everyone goes WILD.

Ally punches air.

Brennan looks like someone slapped him.

Emily: You have to rip up your comparative world religions book.

BONUS EPISODE UNLOCKED

And what did we learn today? A 5 percent chance is small, but not insignificant. 

OK, there’s one thing I want to address before I tap out for the night (and it’s not spell checking. I’ll do that in the morning).

I saw some people discussing the possibility that they faked the ending. Like, they just edited it like that to give them another chance because they were all about to die. Beyond the fact that I just trust them to not have done that, the other big reason I don’t think that’s likely is because there was a much more seamless way of stacking the deck in their favor. Brennan could have had Adaine pull literally anything out of her jacket. And I truly mean anything because this is a finale. Even if he gave her something game breaking, it wouldn’t have set a precedent because it’s the last ep. And that’s beyond all the NPCs that could plausibly have come in because they know something is up and teleportation is a thing in this world. Nah, I think that was just good, old fashioned, luck of the roll and thank Helio because they needed it.

OK, that’s it for now! Join me at some point between now and next ep to unpack this because it’s a lot and apparently we have another episode to get through. Hoot growl baby!

[chilledfoodtin]

Episode Ignis, V2, and moral choices

There was recently a really excellent post by @spectreblanc noting all of the disturbing aspects of V2 and its characterization of Ignis which you can read here. One of spectreblanc’s biggest beefs with EP I is that the Extra Verse (V2) portrays Ignis in a completely OOC way--in particular because V2 Ignis appears to have a completely egoistic morality.  I have seen a couple of response posts go up and I wanted to throw in my two cents.  First, it’s important to remember that those of us who think Ignis was OOC in EP I are referring almost exclusively to the Extra Verse (aka V2).  In this post, I’ll consider a few counterpoints and explain just why we should find V2 Ignis’ ethical outlook not only OOC but also completely morally bankrupt.  The bottom line, however, is that Ignis’ radical shift in moral alignment is the cause of his OOCness—not so much his rashness or emotion.

In the English translation of V2, just before putting on the ring, Ignis utters the following infamous line:

“This world means nothing to me. Do with it as you wish.”

This line is not just an emotional outburst under pressure; it is an expression of an egoistic philosophy that is completely at odds with Ignis’ moral character as portrayed in the main game and V1.  Think of the implications of the line.  The world includes his close friends, Prompto and Gladio.  It includes people he cares about and who care about him, like Talcott, Cid, Cindy and Iris.  If Ignis truly does not care about the fate of the world, he does not care about their fates either.  In short, V2 Ignis is an egoist—he only cares to save the person he cares most about--everyone else can be damned.  This is strikingly OOC.  As one of my friends put it—he goes from a lawful good/neutral moral alignment to a chaotic neutral with no warning. 

Other translations of that line aren’t quite as severe as the English, but even the JP expresses a somewhat similar moral attitude (this translation comes from grey_sw on Reddit)

“What happens to the world doesn't matter to me. A future where Noct becomes a sacrifice... I'll never allow it! That destiny... I'll cut it to pieces!”

That line is a little less amoral, given that he doesn’t invite Ardyn to “do what he wants” with the world.  But it is still pushing the limits of Ignis’ moral character.  Can you imagine Ignis in the main game saying this?  Or even V1 Ignis?  In the original ending, Ignis watches Noct walk up the Citadel steps alone—on his way to the final sacrifice.  You know that was tearing Ignis up, but he doesn’t have an insane outburst and try to stop Noctis.  He remains at his post beside Gladio.  That’s because Ignis understands that it must happen in order to save Eos.  Regis even allowed the city of Insomnia to fall into enemy hands in order to ensure that Noctis can fulfill his destiny.  The only reason Regis felt such an act was justified was because he firmly believed Noctis would be able to go on to save all of humanity.  V2 Ignis’ decision to “damn the world” not only shows no interest in saving the lives of his friends, it also makes a waste of every major sacrifice that has happened up to that point.  These are not the actions of a man who dutifully avoids traffic accidents.

Some are arguing that Ignis’ “world” line does not truly express an immoral attitude (check out @iseliadragonwill very interesting post), but I disagree.  It’s actually not the fact that Ignis refuses to sacrifice Noctis that makes his choice morally wrong; it’s his motive for doing so.  Desiring to protect your loved one does not require you to express a morally bankrupt philosophy.  V2 Ignis could have said for example: “if there must be a sacrifice, let it be me.”  Or, “a blood sacrifice is wrong, I won’t allow it.”  But V2 Ignis appears to have no moral character at all.  All he cares about is saving his loved one (V2 also portrays Ignis’ commitment to Noct as obsessive which is also unfortunate). The real Ignis would at least have hesitated when deciding between the fate of the world and Noctis.  Even Regis, Noct’s own father, decided to save the world rather than reject the fate of his son.

There is a classic thought experiment in philosophical ethics called the ‘Trolley Problem’ that will help bear out exactly why V2 ignis’ decision was immoral, or at the least, why V2 Ignis’ decision should shock you.  The Trolley Problem is very simple: imagine a runaway trolley is hurtling down a track.  You are standing near a lever that can change the direction of the trolley.  If you pull the lever, the trolley will kill one person, if you don’t pull the lever, the trolley will kill 5 people.  Here is a simple graphic expressing the Trolley Problem:

Should you pull the lever? A vast majority of people when asked this question say they would pull the lever because it makes intuitive sense to save as many as possible.  Utilitarian moral philosophy argues that the right action is the one that results in the greatest happiness for the greatest number.  In the Trolley Problem, the math is simple.  You can cause pain and death to 1 while saving 5 others form the same. Thus, a utilitarian would pull the lever.  Duty based ethics, however, (like natural law theory and Kantianism) argue that the right action is the one that is in accordance with duty.  Usually, this involves a duty not to kill.  Killing can only be justified under very limited circumstances. Therefore the Trolley Problem is trickier for someone who adheres to duty ethics, but according to most interpretations, to pull the lever is only to allow but not intend a death (many critics quibble about this point). I think Ignis and Regis both fall into the latter camp where Noctis is concerned.   In V1, Ignis even specifies that it is his duty to protect Noctis (”I swore an oath,” etc.) Regis is clearly a duty driven character.  They are allowing the prophecy to unfold, but they by no means intend the death of Noctis.  So let’s have a look at an EP I version of the Trolley Problem:

 When presented with this situation in V2, Ignis decides he does not want to allow Noctis to be hit by the Ardyn-trolley.  That is completely understandable, but V2 Ignis does not offer a morally sound reason for his choice.  The utilitarian choice here is obvious. Ignis should pull that lever.  In fact he should just pull it so hard it breaks because the scales are wildly imbalanced.  One life for every other life. The utilitarian choice is abundantly clear.  From a duty based perspective, however, Ignis would have to reflect on this decision. He would be allowing a life to be taken. However, he would not have to intend for that life to be taken.  Now, some presented with this problem refuse to take action.  They opt out of the problem altogether.  They won’t play the game.  I can imagine Ignis making that choice, but V2 Ignis does not make the choice for hat reason.  He does not say “this is immoral, I won’t allow a life to be taken,” instead he essentially says “I will allow all other lives to be taken if I can save the one life I care about”.  Again, that expresses an egoistic philosophy not consistent with any moral theory except “ethical egoism”.  Not only does he refuse to pull the lever and save countless lives, he literally invites the Ardyn-trolley to crush and kill everyone on the other track.  I think this makes it obvious why V2 Ignis’ choice is morally bankrupt.

There is a possible response here.  @protectignisscientia​ made an interesting argument that V2 Ignis’ OOC moments can be explained away by his age (http://protectignisscientia.tumblr.com/post/168992462240/not-quite-so-friendly-reminder-that-ignis-scientia).  It is true that Ignis is very young at the time of V2.  He is just 22 years old.  It’s very plausible that he might do something rash or emotional.  In V1, for instance, he puts on the ring even though he doesn’t actually have to (it’s certainly not his only choice in that moment). But the above ethical choices are not the expression of a young man overwhelmed by emotion and difficulty.  Youth and stress do not so drastically alter one’s moral character.  Indeed, if it was so easy to alter one’s moral character, it could hardly be called a moral character at all.      

To summarize, I can imagine V1 Ignis refusing to outright sacrifice Noct, but he would never do it for a purely egoistic motive as V2 Ignis does. Can you imagine Ignis Scientia inviting the runaway Ardyn-trolley to crush every person on Eos, including Gladio and Prompto?  Neither can I.   Thus, I have to conclude that V2 Ignis is OOC and he is OOC in a particularly unfortunate way.  He alters how we view Ignis’ moral integrity--a feature of his character that I think we all love.