#i really hate his writing in trespasser and so this is how I retcon it

[dragonagecompanions]

Why do you think Varric made the Inquisitor a Comte? Wouldn’t that make them outrank him? Dumar seemed pretty powerless and I always thought that Varric got shoved in the rule to make him in charge of the recovery of Kirkwall but not actually of Kirkwall?

Sweet gentle anon, I know it was not your intention but you have stumbled into one of my favorite conversational topics and I hope you are ready for the fall out.

Welcome, children, to Fereldone talks about Thedas' Geo/Theopolitical bullshit!

(tl:dr at the bottom)

So, very important things to know going in: Kirkwall's political history is weird. Founded by the Tevinter Imperium in -620 Ancient (which is DA equivalent of BC/BCE, or the time before the ages ascribed to history by the chantry), it was a mining city. After a slave tried to kill the Archon the Magisterium decided they needed to start importing- and presumably breaking the will of- slaves farther from the heart of the imperium and thus the City of Chains gained purpose.

I could throw a lot of facts and names at you, but here's the basics-- it housed millions of slaves over hundreds of years, at the end of the ancient age they rebelled and overthrew it. Kirk means black in Alamarri, the stone they mined there was jet black, and so Kirkwall (black walls) becomes a Free city. It suffered during the fourth blight in the Exalted Age (fifth age, for those keeping score at home), was conquered by the Qunari in the Storm Age (seventh age) and was then conquered by the Orlesians. Orlais was on a roll with the whole 'we own everything whoops killed your ancestral leaders', but in the Blessed age (eighth age) the people retaliate and overthrow the empire to regain independence.

For reasons I can only assume are laziness and a desire not to change all the paperwork, the leader of Kirkwall is still referred to by the Orlesian word Viscount/Viscomte. Bear with me, this is important later.

We are now in the early dragon age (9th age, and when Inquisition happens). The first two rulers of free Kirkwall sucked. Basically they blockaded their own port and made people pay a fortune to get in and trade. This didn't sit well with the Chantry, who would much rather do that themselves, and in 9:14 Divine Beatrix II (later saved by Cassandra!) tells the Templars to strong arm him into submission talk some sense into the viscount.

The knight commander is killed in the exchange, and so his second command Meredith Stannard steps up to try her hand at negotiations. It goes poorly, so she arrests and jails the Viscount and essentially takes control of the city with full Chantry approval. Now the Templars are essentially in control of the city, and so they appoint a puppet leader (Dumar) to play act in control. But Meredith is actually in charge, and everyone knows it.

Including Elthina, who named her Knight Commander. This is why the Chantry never actually does anything about templar abuses.

So! If you are still with me, this is where Viscount becomes important. There are some wibbly bits about how you treat Sebastian Vael in DA2, but essentially Kirkwall decides that it's time to be an actual city state and not a poorly run Theocracy. As the only man with a plan (and the money and influence to do it), Varric steps in to help his home town. Ecstatic at not being responsible for that, the nobles (comtes) band together and put him in charge.

So while yes, in Orlais Viscount be beneath comte, Kirkwall has been so broken up and conquered and messed with over the years that names and titles are meaningless. In my personal opinion, Varric ennobles the inquisitor so that they will always have a staunch ally amongst the backbiting Kirkwaller nobles. It's also a nice and generous a decent thing to do, of course, but Varric is very good at making something do a lot of things for him all at once.

(Also, Varric knows exactly what that key does. He just ensured that someone smart enough and invested enough in peace will always be able to either open or close the harbor--making sure that the people who depend on him will be safe no matter what.)

Personally, the Trespasser epilouge is useless. It's the result of not having a head writer to review things, and the sweet but misguided attempt to give us closure if DA4 never happened. Hawke doesn't come back to Kirkwall. They are in Weisshaupt (if not in the Fade), and that plotIine will likely be in the final game. The Inquisition in whatever form it still has will be heading north, possibly with Kirkwall as an operating base, and this way the Inquisitor (who is confirmed to not be playabe in DA4) will have a reason to be there and not in Tevinter.

That's my read, anyway.

tl;dr Kirkwall has weird history that led to odd ways of organizing their nobility, Varric wants friends in places almost as high as him, shit's going down in the north and I think the inquisitor will be in Kirkwall so the writers needed a reason to put them there.

Thanks for coming to my TED talk.

Mod Fereldone

[mdhwrites]

if you were the writer of the show what type of bigotry in the Owl House show would you include so it would make the inhabitants have flaws without Belos’s influence?

WRONG! bops you on the head

If you make fictional bigotry in your story, you should not then make that bigotry TRUE. It's actually a part of the problem with Belos' death. By making it so that he claims "We as humans are better than these people because we wouldn't let someone die mercilessly like this," only to then have the characters literally go, "Well we aren't," then you justify the bigot. He is not a bigot... He's just correct. They are as awful, cruel and evil as he believes.

Star Rail had this problem in 2.0 where they had a character theoretically be treated with prejudice for his race. However, someone states what that means and 3/5 matched dead on for how he behaved. The one most targeted at him was in fact 100% correct for that patch. As such, it's hard to call that racist instead of an objectively correct judge of character.

And, in case it isn't VERY clear: That is really fucking awful to do as a writer. Even if these are fictional prejudices, it still is like writing a real world stereotype to its stereotype and nothing else. It makes something that is fundamentally irrational and cruel, logical and justified. That's not the message you should be sending to put it mildly.

This is one of the rough elements of including bigotry in a story. You have to be smart enough to first pinpoint why people were bigoted in the first place as most hate groups have an agenda. Manifest Destiny was an excuse for expansion and cruelty, claiming that God preordained their right to this place and so the people who were already there were trespassers and beneath them for they were not blessed by God. The main purpose though was to have some sort of excuse to get what they want. Then you need to show how this is codified into the dominant society. What do people think are the stereotypes that justify their hate? Then you need to turn that back around to show how those people are not what is being claimed and the blunt fact that these lies are spread mostly for personal gain or comfort.

Belos' hate for wild witches is just... They're evil. They are godless heathens who care not for others suffering. Yes, eventually they try to claim he's doing this for glory but it's flimsy when he's ready to die to reach this goal. Can't get glory when you died in another realm, can you? Worse yet, S1 of TOH just makes this belief fact for the majority of the Isles. Remember episode two with "I WANT TO WEAR YOUR SKIN"? It's why they have to retcon the Isles to having been a paradise before Belos arrived or else he's just correct. They have to claim everyone is a greedy asshole because of him or else from go, the show is on his side.

Now we could go into his prejudice against wild witches but... That doesn't actually exist. He doesn't believe in it and seemingly no one else does either. Hunter doesn't, Bump doesn't, Lilith barely cares about it and more in a way that makes the difference be between industry and freelance work, etc. etc. In fact, it's not prejudice in the Isles: It's just law. Eda is factually breaking the law and that's how everyone treats it. As a bounty to be collected. Not someone who is objectively, abhorrently wrong in the eyes of their society because of this fact about themselves. A fact mind you that Eda chose which actually isn't normal for bigotry. Most that critique go with something that is who the person is by birth, whether that be transgender, gay, a certain race, etc. like that. The closest is discrimination through religion which is not really the vibe this gives because no one actually cares about the religion of the Titan either. It's at BEST a representation of Jim Crow laws but like... It also applied to literally every single living being on the Isles at one point because this show is really bad at this angle.

For the wild witch prejudice to actually function, people would need to think wild witches eat babies, steal your magic, burn down towns, etc. like that. Eda should send people screaming... And so should Luz. Which is why this isn't the case. See, Eda being Momma Eda would have been a great critique of how people saw her. How this one choice made them assume things that were inherently wrong. That's how you do critique of bigotry. But at the same time, that means Luz would have had to fight for acceptance. Fight to clear her name. She couldn't have gone to a magic school in episode because quite literally everyone on the Isles should hate her desire for magic because she inherently can't be a part of the coven system so her dream is to be a wild witch.

The show NEVER deals with complications like that though. That's why Eda is the only wild witch. That's why no one cares about her being a wild witch. It's why in the same episode that Bump is trying to apply for funding from the Emperor's Coven, he has Luz, APPRENTICE TO EDA THE OWL LADY, at his school as a regular student. I can't imagine how that would cause a problem. -_-

Which yes, making the Isles fearful and hateful about the limitless self expression of being a wild witch would make them flawed. Would make them follow a false belief as part of the grand scheme of a bigot. It's almost like the people at the top spread their false beliefs in order to gain power and control the masses. It is actually a good idea for it to have been Belos' influence that caused this hate it's just not actually there in the show, regardless of what anyone else tries to say.

And if you want an example of all of this done right? Zecora. From My Little Pony: Friendship is Magic. I'm not even kidding. In her introductory episode, we are shown that because she is different, a zebra who lives in the woods, EVERYONE in Ponyville is terrified of her. Then when something goes wrong, it assumed to be her fault. However, the Poison Joke actually being told is that they all made fools of themselves while being hateful. That if they had just listened to her, extended trust to her, there would have been no problem because their prejudices were inherently irrational and wrong.

In 22 minutes, My Little Pony addresses bigotry better, more comprehensively and more meaningfully than TOH does in THREE SEASONS. But... I guess only one has gained the reputation for being deep and thoughtful so we should just assume it did it better, right?

Sorry but I prefer to focus on reality than the biased perception that fits my narrative. See you next tale.

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[danceswithdarkspawn]

🍏 Is there something you overuse, whether it’s a certain phrase, trope, or piece of punctuation?

🍐 Is there anything in canon that you absolutely hate and love to fix in fics? A wrong choice made, a fuck-up in characterization, a misunderstanding never cleared up, a conversation never shown onscreen, etc…

Hi, thanks for the ask!

🍏: I use em-dashes probably too much but dammit I love them. They're so good for sudden interruptions of thought or dialogue.

🍐: there's probably lots of little things, but the major one is the really weird way the developers of my fandom went about the canon for one of the characters I write. In fairness to the studio, I don't think Bioware was expecting Dragon Age: Origins to be as successful as it was, and so some elements of the overall story (not just this character's canon) aren't as cohesive as they could be in later titles. But I really...just have to shake my head at how they retconned and reshuffled Leliana's story, and how she kinda got put on the back burner for Inquisition.

There's some small continuity/inconsistencies between the base game of Origins and the Origins DLC focused on Leliana, which weren't reconciled in the base game. Bioware took the narrative in the DLC and made that the canon moving forward in later titles. Which, fair enough, but it's always annoyed me, and I like to bridge that gap when I can.

Another massive glaring one was the fact that Leliana can die in Origins, but she miraculously shows up in the following media alive and well. We technically did get "closure" on this at the end of Inquisition's Trespasser DLC, but the explanation felt like a copout, not gonna lie. I think Bioware saw the story potential they made in her Origins DLC which made her an essential character to the future narrative. And the problem is they're not wrong! It's a great narrative! Except when you remember she's technically supposed to be dead. While I do love to explore this facet as well, it's just always struck me as a really odd writing choice.

[dragonageconfessions]

CONFESSION:

I hate the idea of "Bioware's canon" - storyline and choices favoured by game developers, shown in comics and books. Normally, I wouldn't care but sometimes it just doesn't make any sense. If there's an option not to make Alistair a king, then there shouldn't be a comic in which he's a king!

Don't get me wrong. Normally, I wouldn't care but they started to push it onto the games. So Alistair is a king. Well, ok, as long as it doesn't interfere with my worldstate, i don't care.

BUT.

Killing Leliana in Origins? She comes back anyway because Bioware apparently likes her or something. Killing Oghren? He's still in Awakening. Hawke agrees with Anders? Well, no more! Sure, these are probably not so popular choices, but they exist nevertheless. I listed the more 'extreme' examples because death is the most 'permanent state'. Flemeth coming back makes sense, but it can't just... work for everyone!

That's just showing a middle finger to different parts of playerbase. I know it's difficult to keep up with all endings, but it's better not to show old characters at all instead of making up some stupid excuses like "I was dead but not really".

An example from Inquisition/Trespasser epilogue. No matter who you side with, the College of Enchanters is always created while Vivienne restores the Circle and becomes the Grand Enchanter (you don't even have to recruit her). But if you recruit templars, shouldn't mages have less power and be disorganize?

Due to the length the rest of the confession is under the cut

I hope DA4 will be different. If I kill Cullen, then he shouldn't be in the next game arising from the pit he died in, like Venus from seafoam or something. If I don't become Red Jenny, I shouldn't be one. If I'm looking for Solas to change his mind, then I should be seen e.g. travelling. And what of Kieran? If he was never born, then Flemeth shouldn't have the old God's soul. And so on, and so forth.

Why is all of that a thing? Because Bioware has its own canon and you gotta play as they want you to.

What kind of RPG is it if your choices don't matter?

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Mod Note:

(I rarely respond to confessions like this but I felt this needed a response)

First, It’s probably a good idea to distinguish between a necessary or stylistic retcon (Leliana being alive to continue being part of the story for future games) and the “default canon” used for the books and comics.

In the books and comics, details about the Warden and Hawke remain vague, but Alistair became King of Ferelden, Sten survived Origins and became Arishok, and Shale lived (accompanying Wynne to help begin the White Spire’s mage rebellion). None of that is meant to overwrite anyone’s worldstate, it’s just a convenient writing tool that lets them tell stories that acknowledge those parts of Thedas without having to ignore them.

(And hey, I get it -- some of my Wardens have murdered Brother Genitivi to keep the Temple of Sacred Ashes secret, and not only do people learn of the Temple anyway, but he actually shows up in Tevinter Nights)

I don’t think that BioWare is trying to force specific choices on anyone. Rather, sometimes you have to narrow down the variables before you can move forward with a viable RPG series. Sometimes you realize that the next game needs X character. You can make it so that the side mission is optional (like Nathaniel Howe in Dragon Age 2), that someone else fills their shoes (Wreav in Mass Effect; the closest Dragon Age examples might be the Qunari-aligned War Table missions with Tallis in Inquisition for players who kill the Chargers taking the place of Chargers missions), or you can (like Leliana appearing in DA2 and Inquisition) just decide that what the player thought happened isn’t really what happened, because that way you don’t have to write these contingencies for a major character.

It’s not ideal, but it’s nothing personal -- some choices may be more beneficial than others, some choices may be more popular than others, but having a “default” canon for these writing projects is just a storytelling convenience. All that is contained in them is canon *except* where it goes against your worldstate.

Part of the fun is imagining what might be different in your own timeline -- how does Those Who Speak go if the Warden rules Ferelden? How different are parts of the comics if Sebastian has just been dealt a crushing defeat by the Inquisition as he attempted to sack Kirkwall to exact revenge upon Hawke?

I don’t know any other way for them to have resolved the Circle v College situation in Inquisition, but at least it was within the same game. Functionally, you can’t write a whole series of future games where some of the players would be hunted fugitives or forced to live in internment camps while other players with different worldstates are experiencing a much more egalitarian setting. It would be like creating different games altogether.

PS: For what it’s worth, I think that they’ll do way fewer of the in-game retcons (like with Leliana’s revival) because they have a better idea of how many variables they can handle.

PPS: I think that Flemeth sending “something” through the Eluvian in the post-credits scene works with or without Kieran’s existence. If it is true that it’s a gift of divinity that will find and empower Morrigan, combining those two threads helps to weed out yet another variable.

Special thanks to @simonjadis for the discussion and help on this!