#i love toxic relationships in fiction but they made it too real to enjoy that way

[c0rrupt3dsp1r1t]

benny and jason stop being horribly mutually abusive for five minutes without having sex challenge (impossible)

[olderthannetfic]

What happened for people to decide that your fictional interests are representative of your morals? most fandoms, fan fiction etc were built off of 'immoral' content. They were made to be communities, for people to share their love for media, and if you didn't like those posts... you ignored them. when the rise of the terms proship and antiship started I considered myself an anti, because I was told that proshippers were evil- they supported abuse, grooming, pedophilia, anything you could think of. The thing is, when you're antiship, you don't realize your own arguments apply to yourself too. Toxic yuri/yaoi or whatever is literally proship. It's a toxic relationship usually fueled by abuse. Yet you don't find hate for these ships, why? Because nobody shipping them supports it in real life. If you enjoy horror movies, violent video games, do you support murder? If you enjoy writings about abuse, are you an abuser? If you enjoy historical media, do you support racism? If not, then you are acknowledging the fact you can enjoy 'problematic’ media without it changing your morals.

And the thing is, l'm not here to spread hate. In fact, I get it. I understand why there are so many antishippers, because I was one. The terms proship and antiship have been thrown around without consideration of their actual meaning. Proshippers have never stood for immoral deeds in real life, it just means to ship and let ship- Anti harassment, anti censorship. Most proshippers will tell you themselves they are completely against pedophiles or the like. In all honesty, what has the antiship movement actually done for victims, or for children? They harass people online because they enjoy fiction. Proshippers make their own spaces, and yet they invade them. They focus on the safety of FICTIONAL children and victims instead of the real ones, the ones actually asking for help.

An individuals morality should not and almost always does not depend on fiction.

--

[sammoose22]

I'm hating what's happening to this fandom right now. I love that 911 is getting more recognition but god damn, no one wants this.

I'm gonna rant while trying to keep it neutral from ships (but keep in mind I am ONLY a Buddie fan). (Spoiler alert: I did end up being biased, but I'm still logical and polite)

Regardless of who you ship, remember it is all FICTION. These aren't real people meaning if fans think Eddie is gay or demi and want to include him in a post this month, THEY ARE ALLOWED TOO. You can't judge them for it, and even so, can we all keep in mind why everyone speculated BiBuck. It sure as hell wasn't for how he acted with Chimney or Bobby, and not that one scene with TK.

Furthermore (that made me feel like I was writing an essay), why are people being so nasty? This is a show, meaning entertainment, meaning we should all just be able to enjoy our show regardless of who we ship. I'll be the first to say there rude Buddie and BT shippers and there's peaceful Buddie and BT shippers.

We're supposed to ship who we ship, and be allowed to rant as much as we want, as long as we're nice about it. There's no reason to call fans of either ship delusional or insult them.

So while admitting there's rude fans of both ships, lets me be real here. It's mostly BT fans. Cause come on, some of them want Eddie de*d and Chris to go to BT and some think that they're relationship is so sweet and vulnerable when we've had less that 10 mins. Fine think what you want, but if you're speculating, why can't buddie fans (most of who are respectful and tag their posts/fics correctly) do the same? Why are you feeling so threatened? Them talking about Buddie doesn't mean Tim Minear is gonna choose to do Buddie, and you being so rude and toxic isn't gonna convince him to keep Tommy.

To conclude, I love this show too much to stop watching it, and I love ranting on tumblr too much to stop posting, but damn this hiatus is ugly.

[hwascripts]

A Yandere Love Letter from Asmo

Warning: Manipulative behaviour, toxic relationship, blackmailing, overall dark content under the cut. I do not support or condone real life Yandere behaviour, this is simply a work of fiction.

Wanna see more? Hit up my directory

Are y’all interested in dad!Satan or dad!Mammon headcanons? Because I’m genuinely about to sob over the demon bros as dads.

Hi sweets,

Did you miss me? I know you must’ve! Don’t worry, though. I missed you too. I missed you so much that my beautiful skin has broken out with stress acne. I’m gonna have to punish you for what you've done to me, sweets. Since you've taken off, my perfect skin has been an absolute mess!

A perfect being like me should never have dull, lifeless, blemish-filled skin. But I guess my life has also been dull and lifeless since you left the devildom. Now I’m very curious, honey. What could possibly be better than being here in my presence? Certainly it can’t be that little…fling of yours.

Oh baby, it really does hurt me so! You shatter my heart with your cruelty. How could you leave me, your perfect match, for some little…useless toy? I’m very hurt, and offended. You see, nobody crosses me and gets away with it.

I’ve existed for thousands of years, sweets. And nobody has been good enough for me, at least not until you came along. You managed to wrap me around your cute little finger, baby. You’re truly a charming little fox, and that's why I can’t afford to let you go.

We were clearly made for each other, honey. There's no use in denying it. That's why I’ll have to resort to extreme measures if you don't return to me. What measures? Well, wouldn't it be truly awful if all our intimate conversations were released to your loved ones?

What would your little fling think if they knew you were already in a relationship? What would your family think if they found out you enjoyed toying with people��s hearts? It’s scary to think about, isn’t it baby?

But don’t you worry, I’ve always been a generous demon. I’ll give you three days to carefully consider your options. I know you’ll use that pretty little head of yours wisely, but just in case you haven’t gotten the message.

You are mine. Got it, sweets?

Don’t disappoint me.

Your perfect match,

Asmo

[miyuskye]

VADD NOVEL SPOILER ALERT ❗❗❗

After reading those chapters (158-159), seeing this cover hurts like hell. Eckles was (mind the past tense) my favourite male to ship with Penelope. (My overall fave has always been Callisto but he's like PERFECT so) I knew Eckles was twisted, when he threw those tantrums because Penelope wasn't spending time with him in s3, I thought 'it's fine, he's like this'. I always liked the yandere character type, after all. But the way that scene it's written in the novel, the way he victim-blames Penelope for his crimes is... too much.

"I don't care if I have to become a traitor who sells out his kingdom and his people..." (...)

"I want you, Penelope Eckhart." (...) "That's what you've done to me. You made me this way, and every time you pretend not to notice what you're doing to me, wearing that innocent look on your face... It makes me lose my mind, but what else can I do? You're still so lovely..."

Those words are terrifying. He says he loves her, he says she's lovely but in the same sentence he says that he hates her. The description of the favorability bar being a combination of love and hate (emphasis on hate), and how Eckles goes from praising her to blaming her for things she has no fault of... (she used him, but she never told him to kill Ivonne or betray his people!) it's so well written. I like to draw the line between fiction and reality, and I always like, in fiction, some toxic dynamics I would never condone in real life, but... The way it's written in this novel is too realistic to enjoy in a "romantic" way.

I feel like sometimes yandere characters are written through lenses that make them enjoyable despite their wrongdoings. Allendis from TAE is first rejected from the FL and then he goes crazy. This doesn't justify him of course, but it makes you feel sympathy, in a way. Jumin from MysMes never actually blames MC in his bad ending.

I love the narrative in VADD because there's just no way to feel sympathy for Eckles. As much as I liked him, as much as I wanted him to be ~the one~ for Penelope, it just crashed down the moment he revealed his true self. It made an impact to me because I felt as she felt. I knew some spoilers about him, I knew he was the yandere, but I didn't know it was this intense. That's probably what Penny felt too. She knew he was sick in the head and she wanted to just use him to escape. He fooled us with his fake submissive demeanor and destroyed us in the end. Penny, because she couldn't escape through him, me because I actually thought his love for her would eventually turn out to be good-natured. But those words he said to her cannot be excused, not even in fiction.

They are still an interesting toxic relationship to explore! And I LOVE the parallels between this relationship and the one she has with the man the myth the legend Callisto. The author did such a good job with the romance description in this series, I feel that, probably due to the whacky translation, the brutality of some scenes mellowed out. But I can't wait to see this in the webtoon

[ultimateloserboy]

// TW R-pe and p-do references cuz theres insane shit going on rn??? just a vent or rant or whatever im sorry

i genuinely want to vomit right now i cant believe you people are trying to claim bill fucking cipher is a R//PIST i want to throw the fuck up. i fully respect you and understand if bill and fords situation in the book triggers you but to claim he ever SAd him is a flat out lie and fucking disgusting.

you people dont give a fuck about actual victims you just want to have the moral high ground and its going TOO fucking far now!! telling people theyre as bad as r//pists and p//dophiles because they read the OBVIOUS subtext in a DISNEY OWNED fucking book is insane. genuinely fuck you.

again, if their relationship triggers you i have no ill will towards you and i respect you fully, but to claim its SA or telling other people theyre real life CRIMINALS over gravity fucking falls is batshit crazy dude.

as a victim of multiple types of abuse, yall arent fucking helping anyone, actually!!! yall have triggered me more and made me more sick then the book did!!! because you’re actively claiming that ME as an individual or others like me enjoying or exploring a concept are just as bad as OUR real life fucking abusers!!!!

im on the verge of throwing the fuck up and crying right now. every time i open the fucking gravity falls tab i see silly posts of bill and his little stupid exes and its funny and here comes some asshole telling me im just as bad as the man who abused and assaulted me!

“this is so bad think about real victims!” i AM a real victim and ten minutes ago i was laughing or admiring silly memes or beautiful art exploring a fictional, IMPOSSIBLE relationship. but now i can feel my abusers hands on my skin!! Thanks a fucking lot, jackass!!!!!

bill cipher was a huge comfort when i was like ten or however old i was. gravity falls was an escape from my abuse. and now im being called just as bad as my abuser for enjoying and exploring the actions of the character i loved in my childhood. victims can never have anything because you people constantly want to remind us of our trauma or guilt us when we’re not your perfect little uwu ass victims!!!

and no!! two consenting grown ass men isnt pr//ship just because its toxic!!! this isnt p//do or inc//est and yall need to stop pretending it is!!! this is genuinely a harmful way to look at things for media as a whole!!!! fucking stop!!! please!!!!! stop comparing anything morally debatable to that shit!!!!!!!!

[bacchanal-if]

Hi, same person who asked "quite a few" questions here (thank you for answering!!)! I made a few more since then. I didn't want to overwhelm you by sending them in concurrently, but I love love reading what you have to say about these guys on both blogs. Needless to say I Think About Them Often and patiently look forward to whatever you have to say whenever you do!

Do they feel more compelled to someone who shares more in common with them or someone who's more different?

If the ROs were a separate person, would they be friends with their original self?

What would they most look forward to teaching their child?

What's a hill they would die on? (can be serious and/or trivial!)

Lastly, to the red flag ROs: What are some red flags in others? Do they recognize it's a red flag immediately when they meet the person or could it creep up on them too? Would they ignore it or want to see how it plays out?

Also not really sure why Butterfly is considered a red flag? I group them in with the other masked ROs, though sometimes they remind me of E on their level of intensity or interpretation, and while some of their mentality might be a bit toxic they seem mostly normal besides that. Maybe I'm blind!

I hope you're offered some relief within your current events <3 Please stay kind to yourself for the things outside of your control.

Also, really didn't expect so many answers tbh, and for the only questions you'd skip to be both marriage ones! Interesting, interesting. My eyebrows are up in my hairline! What do these mean !!

I will never stop blushing at this, so thank you for reading and enjoying my work! The fact that anyone cares about these characters amazes me. I appreciate all the questions; they are so interesting and delve into interesting parts of them.

Do they feel more compelled to someone who shares more in common with them or someone who's more different?

Fox: No preference

Rabbit: No preference

Butterfly: Different

The Uninvited Guest: No preference

Edith/Edward: Different

Tamsin/Thomas: No preference

If the ROs were a separate person, would they be friends with their original self?

Fox: No

Rabbit: Yes

Butterfly: Eh?

The Uninvited Guest: Yes and No

Edith/Edward: NO.

Tamsin/Thomas: Yes

What would they most look forward to teaching their child?

Fox: Morals

Rabbit: Self-appreciation

Butterfly: Independence

The Uninvited Guest: n/a

Edith/Edward: Self-sufficiency

Tamsin/Thomas: Unconditional love

What's a hill they would die on? (can be serious and/or trivial!)

Fox: People should say what they mean and do as they say

Rabbit: Do no harm, but take no bull

Butterfly: They are to be admired 😂

The Uninvited Guest: They don't think about these kinds of things!

Edith/Edward: One must fend for oneself

Tamsin/Thomas: To love is to live

Lastly, to the red flag ROs: What are some red flags in others? Do they recognize it's a red flag immediately when they meet the person or could it creep up on them too? Would they ignore it or want to see how it plays out?

They all clock it pretty fast.

Butterfly: They are actually more discerning than you may think! Their main red flag is when someone else is too pompous and overconfident, because there is only room for one peacock in the room and it's them. They expect humility, and any disrespect is a turn off. But keep in mind they are only Butterfly after dark, so this only applies then 😉

The Uninvited Guest: Oh? 👀 yes please, every flavor.

Edith/Edward: They have low standards for what they consider to be a red flag, so it doesn't take much to tip them off. It's best to understand one's opponents, so they see how it plays out.

Also not really sure why Butterfly is considered a red flag?

Butterfly is an oft contested red flag, so I understand where you're coming from! My definition is thus, taken from my Romance FAQ: In short, I wouldn’t consider the relationships you can have with them to be healthy in the real world, but fine to explore in fiction. To be more specific, these routes are more akin to obsessions than equal partnerships.

I will be honest; I do not know how much it will come up in the story, if at all, but Butterfly can be quite spiteful when hurt. This and the fact that they are quite manipulative are not healthy traits!

[timetopanic34]

My relationship with fan fiction is complicated. I'm relatively old (compared to most of you!) and so for the first half of my life fan fiction only existed in written form passed among those in the know. I was definitely not in the know!

Once it hit the internet I discovered it and slowly started devouring it. But I felt it was a dirty little secret. I mean what would people think if they knew I read fan fiction? Some of which is basically just porn?

But slowly I've learned - plenty of people would just be meh if they new and if not - then that's their problem. Nothing wrong with me enjoying what I enjoy and what many others enjoy too.

Even so I remained hesitant to interact and truly involved beyond just reading. I stayed an anon on AO3 for a long time and never commented, even when I loved a fic.

There were copious reasons mostly mixed up in my anxieties and fears. What if it's taken the wrong way? What if I'm having a bad day and many people disagree and pile on? Why would anyone even remotely care about what I think of their work?

A few years ago I commented a couple of times and nothing bad happened.

I got a bit braver and at some point I made an AO3 account and then made a new Tumblr with the same handle.

I struggled posting to Tumblr as well since I couldn't quite free myself from the hold my anxiety had on me.

But at some point I started leaving kudos and giving the odd comment. I also started reblogging things on here.

Then I boldly started adding to my reblog. A couple of times I very boldly state things I feel that I know are controversial ideas to some. I can’t tell you how hard that was.

Instead of some sort of mental health decline I’m finding that being more involved in fandom has been incredibly positive.

So many cool things have happened. I've had discussions about fics and characters. I have had beautiful replies from writers.

But most importantly I feel I am becoming a part of a community and finding my people. Nobody in my real life reads fan fics or have favourite ships so feeling at home here and on AO3 is such a beautiful feeling.

Now I know there is some real toxic corners of fandom out there. There are people who leave terrible comments and feel somehow entitled to do this (if I don't like a fic I will never leave a comment. Ever. I will stop reading and click away - it's that simple!) and there are people who will attack others for having a different opinion.

I am lucky in that so far all my interactions have been positive. I daresay that if I had experienced something negative as I was slowly moving my way forward into participation it may have halted my progress.

But now I think I know enough to be able to deal if it ever happens to me.

So I'm posting more here. I've also set myself a goal to comment at least once (no matter how small - though lets face it - brevity is not my strong suit!) on fics I enjoy.

I also have a goal to write a fic and post it before the end of the year. That's gonna take a lot of work convincing myself that yes some people might like to read it and if not then I can write it for the one person who wants it - me!

Huge shout out to @hesitantsorrows who actually wrote a fic based on an idea I had for a Stucky fic. In my wildest dreams I never expected someone to do something like that. It still makes me smile every time I think about it. It’s a fab fic too!

[assignedpeanutallergyatbirth]

Spoiler Warning: Heartstopper Webcomic

I was on TikTok today, and I came across a video where a creator was discussing Heartstopper that really rubbed me the wrong way.

Now, in fairness to this creator, they did not specify how or to what extent they have engaged with the Heartstopper media. They did acknowledge, in this video, the importance of Heartstopper for queer youths. And I understand matters of taste. This person may simply not like this style of media. They are an adult, and they mentioned no longer enjoying YA. So I am not mad that someone doesn’t like something that I do.

There were two things said in this video, however, that really bothered me. The first is that this creator expressed that they felt that real teenagers were messy — that they were having a bad time in high school — and that Heartstopper is too wholesome and saccharine to be relatable. This just really bugs me. Yes, the overall message and tone of Heartstopper is positive and one of hope, but these comics cover some really heavy topics. Charlie has an on-page eating disorder, which gets so bad that he faints while on a school trip. He spends time at an in-patient psychiatric hospital. It is explicitly stated that he self-harms, and has had to be rushed to the emergency room as a result. There is violent homophobia on-page. The whole relationship between Ben Hope and Charlie is a toxic and abusive shit fest. And if this isn’t “messy” enough, then there is also just petty teenage drama, like the fight between Tao and Charlie over finding out about Nick, or the current storylines of Nick’s university decision and first times. It was just so clear to me that this creator didn’t know what they were talking about. These comics are real and relatable and messy. They just are also hopeful and full of love instead of being miserable.

The second thing that bothered me is that the video opened with this creator describing Heartstopper as something designed to be inoffensive to Tumblr. And there are valid critiques to be made about social media and the sanitization of media. But to look at something as heavily critiqued and contentious as Heartstopper, something that is being banned and boycotted, and label it inoffensive really didn’t sit right with me. Just because this series is hopeful and positive and wholesome doesn’t mean that it is inoffensive. Nor does it mean that Alice Oseman created something silly or unimportant to appease Tumblr. Just because this series doesn’t seem as important as the “dark and gritty” fiction that some people prefer, doesn’t mean that it doesn’t carry the same themes or importance.

[lesbianp1lled]

as a fellow gold star who's never been lucky enough to experience reciprocated love and has been led on by many bi women, I probably do read more male gay fiction than lesbian fiction tbh. because I obviously don't get anything out of straight romance, osa makes me nauseous or feel nothing at best, however every time I even watch a video of a lesbian couple or read lesbian fiction I get so deeply envious and sad, not in a toxic hateful way ofc, just flat out crying out of loneliness like an idiot.. so m/m fiction is the only emotional relief for me to relate to homosexual love while also being completely detached from any personal feelings since I'm not male nor into males.

I have no trauma with men, have thankfully never even had to pretend to have any romantic feelings towards any in my 25+ years and have never had any self-insert thoughts about any of the gay fiction I've read other than the occasional 'I wish I had a lesbian version of that relationship'.

I want to make it clear that it's not about internalized misogyny, just plain lesbian solitude and the feeling that no woman is really attracted to women (I know it's ridiculous but that's my trauma) and specifically to me. which is all the more upsetting since as I guess a conventionally attractive feminine woman I have to beat straight men off with a stick.

although I do realize now that this sort of escapism and detaching yourself from your own sexuality to get secondary emotional fulfillment from fictional relationships completely unrelated to you isn't healthy in the long run. it's just very hard to find a gf in my homophobic country so I've used fiction as a crutch to not deal with my own personal life.

I do think most so-called 'fujos' who actually fetishize gay men are bihets though who think thirsting after fem gay men makes them qweer, when that's literally ultimate het behaviour. just saw one call herself a lesbian while openly lusting after a gay man, saying she wishes she wasn't a lesbian and that he wasn't a 'man kisser' so they could be together because 'she needs him bad'. girl, you never were a lesbian, probably not even bi, also actually consider ki!!ing yourself, these homophobic fakebians have 0 shame nor logic denying the existence of homosexuals of either sex.

no lesbian would ever conjure up such a homophobic double 'conversion' fantasy, I'm enraged to the point of wanting to hurl. the gen z larpers are so unhinged now that they genuinely don't even respect homosexuality existing, all they do is fetishize opposite-sex homosexuality while spouting actual 'corrective' r*pe level hetero fantasies which I've noticed a lot of bihets from either sex have. a lot of this obsessing over 'p3gging' and feminizing men is born out of their fetishization of gay men, doubt any of them would even enjoy any of that, they just want to 'queerify' their zesty straight sexuality to look subversive, they even pretend it's 'feminist' somehow.

and ofc they either support the homophobic tiffies who larp as gay men of eventually become them, straight up admitting to wanting to r*pe gay men under the pretense of totes being men as well while wanting to have het aka piv sex with males.. it's sinister how every gay fandom is overrun with transhets or normie hets, don't even get me started on the yuri hentai fetishizing het male 'transbians' invading 'lesbian spaces' made up mostly of bi women anyway.. it's just way too personally offensive and painful to even witness.

what should be the only safe haven and a joyous source of entertainment makes me spiral with rage against the hetero machine instead. so often I see sb seemingly decent, exclusively posting about gay topics only to eventually reveal they are a bihet thirsting after opposite-sex homosexuals and my heart drops again. where are the real lesbians?

so while I know from personal experience that people can enjoy fiction that doesn't relate to their sexuality, it is rare and usually related to some sort of trauma. I know het women who never consume het romance because it's so unrealistic/ insulting to their experiences and only read f/f fiction. whereas for me I do now admit it stems from loneliness and trust issues with women, fearing all women will turn out to be hetero and leave me to the dust again. my ex told me I was the perfect woman for her and that she'd never date a male again only to ghost me randomly and get married to a male who looks like he could be her uncle within a year or two lol.

I was just happy to see a lovely post from a woman about her wife only for her entire feed to be about obsessively thirsting after a ton of famous men. imagine just getting married to a woman as a same-sex attracted woman only to write insane s3xually harassing comments like a het coomer towards a grown strange man (who at least presents stereotypically gay btw, common denominator), saying bs like he's 'her pwecious pwetty boy' whose abs give her an aneurysm.. and it's just some skinny twink, no offense. I've never even met het women this male-crazed. bet her wife's the same if she tolerates that. they genuinely think calling a vaguely 'pretty' man their 'girlfriend' justifies their hetero attraction towards males as a supposed 'lesbian'. they truly are our worst most insidiously evil enemy, they're the ones who embolden trans-identified het males to believe they can be included in lesbianism. I'd rather stay single and loveless forever than humiliate myself by dating a bihet like that..

I would never trust sb is actually a lesbian if they have a dedicated account for posting about men, fictional or not, obsessing over a particular man/ men. nah, I'm a fan of some male singers etc but having an account for posting about everything they do is simply not lesbian behaviour even if they pretend it's platonic admiration. no lesbian is that obsessed with a man/ men.

that’s the main sign to look out for, it's one thing to root for a gay couple and completely different to have any ideation about inserting yourself into that relationship or fantacize about the men in question. which is so disgustingly homophobic as well, idk even if the characters are bi, having het thoughts about people in a same-sex relationship is gross peak bihet behaviour. I'm also generally heterophobic to be fair, spare me of any mention of osa.

so it does bother me that anyone female who consumes any male gay fiction/ media is automatically associated with these homophobic osa lunatics, however as mentioned, it is unfortunately often justified. there is ofc gay fan fiction in particular written by hetero-attracted women which fetishizes gay men but a lot of it is just general escapist romance from a female perspective, reading more like a lesbian relationship which is why it's relatable to lesbians as well while retaining that sense of detachment. I truly just need one good woman to fix me lol and bring me out of this self-destructive denial of myself as a romantic/ sexual person who deserves love.

I have hope for you anon that you will find the woman of your dreams one day, even in a homophobic country it’s still possible 🙏

I get why you read m/m fiction. It’s just when these women are SO OBSESSED with m/m fiction and nothing but m/m fiction that I side eye them. Like I said before, I have read books with m/m characters in them, even though it’s not my first choice, i’d go for a sapphic book first, but I think there are good m/m stories too! I read Maurice which is one of the first classic gay books by e.m foster a few years ago and it’s really good even though mid-way through to the ending it’s quite sad.

[rigginsstreet]

I just honestly don't get why nearly everyone here stans dair? Like they were together for just four or five episodes, Blair couldn't even say she loved Dan back since she VERY clearly didn't, Blair kept trying to talk herself into the relationship, she could only enjoy sex with him when she was really drunk, they genuinely clash and annoy each other like 98% of the time (dair stans say it's playful bickering, but it's clear they very legitimately annoy the hell out of each other lol and don't connect/understand each other unless they're talking about art), they're extremely incompatible and would want very different lives long term, and their connection seems based on purely intellectual pretension rather than emotional depth or romantic passion. Meanwhile, Chuck is the love of Blair's life throughout almost the entire series, she can and DOES say she loves him several times, and we're told and shown over and over that they connect on every single level and understand each other like no one else ever could. And yes, Chuck is a terrible person much of the time (Gossip Girl is supposed to be part soap and satire, so the awfulness of these ruthless rich people is exaggerated!) but, guess what, Blair is terrible too! Blair isn't some sweet, innocent girl being corrupted by mean and scheming Chuck---the show clearly makes the point that they're perfect for each other because they're BOTH manipulative, ruthless, elitist, frequently mean people who only truly and fully connect with each other. In real life, most of us would despise both Chuck and Blair individually and consider their relationship toxic, but it ISN'T real life---it's a fictional show, and a deliberately exaggerated, soapy one at that! Sorry to rant, just had to vent to one of the few people here who's pro-chair and anti-dair :)

people on this website will be like "we need more evil female characters" and then woobify blair waldorf. like the reason theres so many dair shippers is because people CANNOT swallow the fact that blair is also not a good person. blair and chuck are a match made in hell (affectionate) and their dynamic is so delicious. meanwhile yall want the ship where THEY HAD TO BE DRUNK TO EVEN BE REMOTELY PHYSICALLY ATTRACTED TO EACH OTHER. because THATS normal and healthy.

everyone on this website is so ass backwards, most unserious group of people ive ever encountered in my life

[littleapocalypsekitten]

I just want to say how much I am ENJOYING my new / revived old fandom! I mostly keep my fandoms to sideblogs now to keep them from being muddled up in too much randomness (or stray American Politics fandom-wranklings. The American Politics fandom has been WILD lately)! Anyway, I made a secondary sideblog for one of my fandoms, a very silly Askblog in the tradition of those animal-welfare blogs where people can ask species-experts if "cute animal videos" and pictures / interactions they spot are wholesome or cruel / sketchy . I made one for a fictional species where we have some worldbuilding, but it's all very loose in the various canons and I can largely make stuff up, fanfiction-style. It's been up for 3 days and I've already got over 100 likes/reblogs/various asks! The fandom is ENGAGED! (And it's been like a year since new material has been put out! - Actually, most of the material / base material is OLD - as in - made in the late '90s up through the '10s). For those who shared She-Ra and the Princesses of Power fandom with me, it's kind of like the clones, except I'd say that Trigun's Plants have a wee bit more worldbuilding around them. What I am really enjoying about this particular endeavor is that people in this fandom are very... chill? About each other's headcanons? There's no big collective consensus "how to detail out this species," nor is there stepping on each other's toes and accusations of stealing headcanons when people thought there was mutual sharing involved. I just answered an ask regarding a fandom somewhat-famous someone's OC Plant - just a character that does a cute thing related to one of the main character's favorite foods that is featured in some fanfictions. I just made up some programming-protocol junk off the top of my head and there's a lovely thread now. By the way, my Askblog features me pretending to be a woman in STEM canonical character that I enjoy writing fanfiction about to begin with. I also think that I am getting along well in this fandom because I'm less... personal? With most people in it. There's only one person in the fandom that I chat with / bounce fanfiction ideas back and forth with regularly. I'm not on any Discords (I erased my Discord account long ago. I hung out in a nice Spop com for a while, but the one Trigun place I was in got erased due to manager-being-busy-with-life and I just wasn't using it). The Trigun fandom is also large enough that while there are pockets of people who know each other, it's not one of those "everyone knows each other" fandoms. There are prevailing headcanons that I do not share / have unpopular opinions on, but there just isn't a lot of fighting. I also (because I have learned) am slow to "make friends" in fandom and all of my mutals are great people, but all a little at arm's-length. We aren't dumping our traumas and personal lore on each other. I think it also helps that it's a more mature fandom (in tone, the first anime is teen-stuff while the manga / second anime is VERY bloody and has complex themes) - and we all accept that if we like the villains in it - that we openly like serial killers and all-human-life-genociders AS CHARACTERS and that, no, we don't support that stuff in real life. No whining that "this teaches toxic relationships!!! OMG!" We all know that Knives is an utter toxic waste dump of a brother to Vash, haha.

[flhoarder]

Absolutely hilarious how you're literally just here minding your business on this blog, enjoying what you're enjoying and not harming anyone (as far as I know?), and someone had the nerve to pop onto anon to send hate and call YOU toxic. Lol. Lmfao.

Sending anonymous hate mail to an actual real-like human person sounds far more toxic than enjoying a fictional character.

¯\_ (ツ)_/¯

Anyway tho—you're allowed to enjoy whoever and whatever you enjoy. Don't let anyone tell you otherwise! Please have a nice day.

Hey thanks!

To be honest I don’t take those too seriously. Mainly because it’s nothing new to take a stray bullet on social media. Especially when preferences in something people are passionate about are involved. I do think it’s a shame that there are people out there who played DE and learnt nothing from the stories that the game was trying to tell though. A theme of struggle and trauma and redemption in everyone, it was always there.

I get where some of those views are from. People who think Harry dug himself out and so that decision of his had to be universally celebrated. People who cared must be supportive because it did Harry some good.

But it’s not that simple, is it.

Decisions have consequences. Some people have to bear those consequences for decisions not made by themselves, things that are entirely out of their control but suddenly have the potential to leave a massive crater in their life that maybe they can’t even afford to repair. Things they have to accept just because they woke up one day to a new reality.

Harry made his decision for himself. It’s easier for some characters to come to terms with it because they never knew Harry intimately as he was before, they never had Harry in their life so much to feel the impact. Jean did, and he needs what he needs to deal with this sudden change of current, when the old one was one that he still was trying to navigate. The change disrupted his entire assessment of a big part of his life, and a relationship he thought was entirely doomed but at least he understood.

As the audience, it’s easy to get confused and misunderstand this, but it’s not a ‘misery loves company’ situation. If you really look, you can see a mishmash of emotions from him. It’s uncertainty. It’s fear. (And oh, so much fear.) It’s hope. It’s helplessness. He can’t afford to be optimistic because even though he hasn’t dealt with anything like it, he was let down many many times. Hope is a dangerous thing to have, and this whole current change in Jean’s life is both too irrevocable and uncertain for him to have it.

But it’s clear that he wants to believe and to hope, however desperate. He‘s actively seeking out ways to let himself be persuaded into picking choices to look out for Harry. It’s confirmation bias: He exclusively takes people who care about Harry, people who can help Harry with him. Every time he tries to cut off ties, he looks for the tiniest voice of objection to push him back to Harry. At the end of the confrontation, he goes back to what he really wants out of it, not a final decider, that’s already done- but something he needs to gingerly anchor his hope onto: any final affirmation or confirmation from someone who’s been in his shoes for a minute with the new Harry. If a partner of this new Harry can work things out, he’s willing to try.

And there’s something to be said about that. I hope I’ve said my piece clearly enough that at least it’s out there for people who care to read.

[queen-vessaraia-ashlynne]

The problem with the romance genre, perhaps more particularly the romantasy genre, is that it is romanticising toxicity.

Now, don't take this the wrong way - I am in no shape or form saying you should not enjoy a book just because it does this. The whole point behind a lot of these books (bearing in mind the majority of this post will address romantasy books, as I am better versed in them than the more run-of-the-mill romance books) is that they are fiction. They are not supposed to be a reflection of real life, or a guide to it. So we should not justify fictional red-flags in real life.

Everyone has faults, but there is a huge difference between a flaw and a toxic trait. The romanticism of toxicity in books is primarily so dangerous because it is not talked about enough, and so is not acknowledged; surely, this is even more dangerous in the romantasy genre, where the removal from our world makes resulting justifications unconscious.

This post is a little bit all over the place, a collection of half strung together thoughts, but I hope it gets you to reflect more on the relationships between characters in books. Violence for love is not always a good thing, nor is jealousy. 'Protective' is fine, but there is a line that should not be crossed between protective and possessive, and that line is becoming hopelessly blurred. This is just one example. Please, please remember: your life doesn't stop at the end of a few hundred pages, or after three books. It continues well beyond that, and whilst some traits may be endearing at first, it is important to recognise that after a bit of time they may become stifling. Do not hurt yourself in an attempt to live a fictional life - those lives are fictional for a reason.

Additionally, this romanticism is feeding into the 'I can fix them' movement. By justifying these traits, you are telling people that it is okay to behave in this manner, to treat others in this manner. Whilst I am not discounting that people can change and grow, and some perhaps need help from others to do this, I cannot emphasise enough just how dangerous this is. People should be held to a standard for a reason, and you should not settle for less.

I hope I have made you think. The romanticism of toxicity is something that needs to be discussed more by readers, and even media producers. You will sabotage your chance at a happy ending if you try too hard to emulate these fictional idols in fictional worlds, cultures, and societies.

Finally, remember that you can enjoy reading about an unhealthy relationship, you can find toxic characters hot or the like - just recognise, even to yourself, that the traits/relationships are toxic and harmful. That you would not actually want that in real life, with your circumstances and experiences, and without the character's unlikely wealth/magic etc.

Do not settle for less because a fiction book has taught you that it is acceptable. It is not.

[purrincess-chat]

Some people say that Adrienette breakup is the only way we can get Ladrien.

Listen, I am a Ladrien bitch, but I don't actually think we NEED Ladrien to get together. I think that ship has sailed. (Literally)

Look, is playing with the different sides fun? Yes. Would it have been fun to see each side have its time to shine? Absolutely. My issue with breakups and get back togethers at this point is the way they've set Adrinette up throughout s5. Well, since s1 really, but s5 especially.

We have been waiting literal, actual YEARS for these two to do something. The requited love in s5 was years in the making. If they wanted to play with the Ladrien romantic potential, they should have done it within that time. Doing it now is just like ehh, okay? At this point, it would be doing it just to say they did it, and I am a Ladrien stan. Am I annoyed with the lost potential of that side? 100% yes. But I just don't see it being viable romantically after s5 without some kind of reveal happening. Believe me, I want Ladrien hugs and kisses more than anyone, but Adrinette fought way too damn hard in s5 just to be together. Doing away with them is just kind of like okay? Then what was the point?

And miss me with the argument that shows do it all the time because for me, if a couple breaks up and gets back together all the time, that's not healthy. That does not demonstrate to me that the couple has healthy coping mechanisms, and if they get together again, what guarantee do I have that it will stick? I don't root for those couples. A majority of my favorite fictional couples are couples who get together and work to stay together. Leslie/Ben from Parks and Rec (and yes, I know they technically broke up for a short time but it was a very specific and believable circumstance. I'm talking about the several seasons they were together without breaking up after that), Jake/Amy from Brooklyn 99, Sakura/Syaoran from Cardcaptor Sakura. All of those couples have gotten together and had plenty of story after getting together where they grew in meaningful ways, and their relationship wasn't boring or a detriment to that. It made their romance more satisfying to see them go through things together (or even separately) and stay together. That's real love.

There are plenty of meaningful ways they can grow as characters while being in a relationship. We saw that throughout s5 with how hard they worked to figure their relationship out and make it work, and that's why I'm rooting for them. They worked for that shit, and I think they deserve it. They deserve to just be happy and in love. They can still continue to grow separately as characters and within the bonds of their relationship. Them being together doesn't automatically mean their development has stopped and won't continue. They don't need to breakup to continue to be interesting. To me, continuing the will-they-wont-they with more breakups and get back togethers would be boring. We've had plenty of wondering if/when/how they will get together. They are together now. I am personally now more interested in how they continue to grow together. How the other sides are different now that they are together. How the dynamics will shift and progress them further leading to an eventual reveal. That's what interests me about future seasons.

Idk, I find it really, really weird that we were begging for something to happen with the love square for years. We begged for them to get together, and now that they are finally together people are begging for them to break up. And for why? A lot of people never even tried to enjoy it. It's weird to me, nonny, and I think it's just a testament of the toxicity of parts of this fandom. I love, love, love Ladrien. I don't think they need an episode to be together romantically at this point. They should have done it a long time ago. I personally want to see them interact with a new dynamic at this point. We can still get Ladrien, it just won't be like what it was, and that's fine. It's fine for all of the sides to adopt new dynamics now that one side is dating. I would actually hope that would happen.

Cause let's be real, Ladybug still having mad heart eyes for her bf but having to pretend he's just another normal citizen who she definitely isn't going to makeout with later? Adrien still sweating bc m'lady pls I'm begging let me go so I can transform and help you?

At this point, some people should just stick to fanfic. 🤷‍♀️

[autumn-foxfire]

Can you explain proship and antiship and why people are saying one or the other is problematic? I’m a little confused over this.

Sit down, nonnie, this is going to be a long one!

I need to start this by saying that I would be someone classed as a proshipper. I don't necessarily label myself as such though and when it comes to the drama around this, I think both sides can be terrible and toxic, but because of my views I would be labelled by an anti as a proshipper (or proshitter because yes, that is how childish they can be).

A proshipper believes that fiction does not affect reality on a 1:1 ratio which will often be shortened to be "fiction doesn't affect reality" which doesn't actually represent the views of many people who are given this label. However to place it simply, a proshipper would not care who you ship: age gaps, toxic relationships, incest of any kind etc. because they believe that what you enjoy in fiction doesn't not indicate the type of things you would enjoy in a real life relationship.

An antishipper, as you can guess, is the opposite, they believe that fiction does affect reality and that your taste in media can be an indication of what you enjoy in reality.

This has led to the words problematic, pedophile, abuser, groomer and the like to be thrown around in fandom like they're candy and not serious accusations to accuse someone of and has watered down the words to the point that when someone is claimed to be, say, a pedophile, it makes people think "are they really or did they just like a "bad" ship" which obviously is a very big problem.

Now, there is nothing wrong with being uncomfortable and even downright hating ships that have incest/pedophilia/abusive aspects and in fact many people who will say "ship and let ship" (a common phrase used by proshippers) will hate them too. I can't stand these types of ships personally and will block anyone who has them as they make me extremely uncomfortable, however I won't harass people who have them either which is a common tactic of the antishippers.

You don't know the people behind the ship, plain and simple. Many proshippers with these darker ships have even had to share how they were/are victims of what they're being accused of and how they use such ships to help them come to terms and take control of their own trauma.

Or they could be dangerous people (though I don't know what the percentage of people that would be) which is why I will never understood why antis will ask each other to put themselves in danger to harass these people.

My issue with antishipping is that any ship can come underfire and be labelled a proship by these people. I've seen things be called proships for people who have shared the same body in funky soul shenanigans, I've seen them been called that for people who look too much alike, I've even seen it for age gaps that are completely normal in real life.

There is no common consensus for what is a proship, it's become a word to mean "ship I don't like" for many and is used extremely often to shut down ships and people shipping it.

I'll use a proship of mine as an example and one that is often the target of antis on twitter. I've made it very much aware I love the relationship between Osamu Dazai and Sakunosuke Oda from Bungo Stray Dogs. Now Oda was 23 when he died, Dazai was 18 years old. For many, this 5 year gap was too inappropriate for them because Dazai was a "minor" at the time of their friendship. This got even worse when the author revealed that Dazai and Oda met when Dazai was 16.

It doesn't matter that to many antishippers that people who love the ship enjoy it with both characters of adult age (it's very rare you see anyone shipping them when Dazai was 16 and even at 18). Because he knew Dazai when he was a minor, their relationship cannot change at all, Dazai will always be viewed as a "kid" by Oda (despite that having never been their relationship) and if you ship them you are a pedophile.

Yes, that is the word that is often used. You get called a pedophile for shipping two characters who are legal age.

Now, can the age gap in the ship be uncomfortable to people? Sure! Can the potential power imbalance be uncomfortable too? Yes, it can and I have many ships where I find myself in the same boat. However instead of the antis of the BSD fandom blocking and avoiding this content, they will accuss creators for the ship of being horrible thing and will harass and insult them.

This is why I called it a cult. You saw in the post I just made how a person had to ask if something was okay? They didn't go "I think this is uncomfortable so I won't enjoy it and avoid it" they had to make sure that it was okay with the hivemind to like it another way. At this point antis aren't thinking for themselves, they're doing what they think others expect of them.

What's even worse is that some anti communities have been shown to have been run by actual predators who are preying on the minors that flock to them for "safety" from these "dangerous" ships.

There have been classic textbook abusive behaviour from these communites such as isolating minors from "dangerous" adults and making them feel like they're the only people they can trust. It's often believed that predatory adults will use "proship" content to make minors trust them but it's just no true, a predator will use anything that will endear them to their victim and that includes antishipping.

It's extremely dangerous and terrifying to see.

There also the fact that many antis care more about the lives of fiction people than real people. I will see them celebrate and laugh at "proshippers" who feel suicidal or have committed suicide, even going as far as to tell them to do it. It's horrifying.

I'm sorry I've gone more into the antishipping community than the proshipping community but that's because I'm genuinely terrified of the antishipping community. They make fandom a terrible and toxic place to be in.

For many years, proshipping was the standard to the point it hadn't even been called it. It's only recently the anti community started to rise, bringing with them both insane purity culture and abusive/bullying behavior to anyone who won't conform to their standards.

Please, everyone stay safe in fandom.