#i like to think that sev’s patronus was always a doe

[sorin-in-the-sixth-sense]

Just thinking about “whatever our souls are made of, his and mine a the same” from wuthering heights, and lily and severus having the exact same patronus, something that literally represents the soul

[fresiants]

your last post. y'know i've always found it insane people call sev's love for lily obsessive and his entire narrative regarding her as something foul or sick. like personally? i always hated it's put such emphasis on his feelings being romantic and how if his feelings weren't ""romantic"", he wouldn't have done All he did for harry and the order in the end. i find it really narrow-minded from r*wling to basically declare feelings can only be of romantic nature to motivate grand changes or life commitment and devotion. i didn't entirely hate love for a departed friend to change the course of his life - i'm familiar with feeling devout to someone you don't have contact with anymore, despite the years, despite everything - but the way people have managed to twist his motives and turned them into pettiness, jealousy, obsession, childishness even? like maybe Maybe his childhood friend's husband harassed him and humiliated him daily for seven years?????? maybe it doesn't have to do with him getting with lily but how sev only dealt with asshole james and not sweet uwu Good boyfriend james uwu!!1 so if he could never stop hating james, i really understand it, he didn't have to forgive the man lol. now to lily again, how, How could he be obsessive if obsessive behavior is akin to harassment, stalking, and he never ever bothered her again after they ended their friendship. How was he obsessive???? he left her be and Then begged for her protection, to both his lord and dumbledore. so really, what in his behavior is obsessive??? in what form???? wouldn't everything he did for her be what we all would do for a friend? and that friend's child???

It's wild now that i think about it because when I first read the book, I never once considered that Severus' love for Lily was romantic.

I have read many arguments made by Snaters, and here are the things they always list out to prove Severus' obsession :

1 - He stalked Lily when he was... nine

This is probably one of the stupidest 'proof' these people could ever provided. When I first joined the snapedom, I genuinely thought these haters were talking about teenage!Severus and was so confused cuz I don't remember such a thing. But then they started pulling passages from Snape and Lily's childhood memory when they first became friends. The fact that they called a 9 YEARS OLD creepy says a lot about them.

2 - He wanted to control who's Lily's friends with

I honestly couldn't understand this argument. It makes me wonder if these people have ever had a close friend before. I've been bullied when I was in high school, and I would never let my best friends disrespect me by getting close to those who hurt me. It's called friends code.

3 - If Harry was a girl, he would've done some creepy stuff to him

??? This is the most absurd one cuz it's not even a proof, it's a wild assumption. A creepy one at that. I was shocked to see many people agree with this, like bffr now... If you want to hate on my man, at least do it correctly. Not by spreading some creepy headcanons to make him looks worse.

4 - His Patronus is the exact copy of Lily's

Probably the same people who accused Nymphadora of rap!ng Remus. To them, complimenting someone's patronus = soulmate and mirroring someone's patronus = obsession. Does that means Harry was obsessed with his father since they both have a stag as their Patronus 🤯

5 - He only wanted to save Lily so that he could pursue a romantic relationship with her.

Yet another weird assumption made by them. As far as I remember, Severus respected Lily's wish and left her alone after their fifth year. I'm not sure how they got the idea that Severus would try to pursue Lily if he were to succeed in saving her from Voldemort. He probably would have continued to keep his distance from her as usual and protect her from afar.

It's crazy how these people are trying so hard bring Severus' down that they're willing to expose their distorted thinking to the public. They're risking everything just to hate on a fictional character.

[seriousbrat]

omg what a great addition, thank you!

you make an excellent point about why the occlumency lessons didn't continue after snape's outburst even though dumbledore could almost certainly have put his foot down; harry came dangerously close to discovering snape's motivations, it was pure luck that he went into a memory that didn't give it away. likely also dumbledore recognised that the volatility between harry and snape would just make things worse. tbh every time I read it I wonder what it would have been like if snape had been able to take a chill pill and let harry speak after SWM, because harry clearly is on his side in this moment (i don't think snape would have appreciated his pity, but it still would have been interesting to read)

also, that post about snape's speech is incredible, my god that must have taken a lot of work. I can't find it right now but there was a post a long time ago that talked about Sev's accent; as an adult we hear him speak in a very methodical, refined way, every word carefully chosen. But as a child he must have had very much a working class accent from somewhere in the midlands (personally i like east mids but that's just me) and probably stuck out like a sore thumb among his pureblood classmates who likely used received pronunciation or similar. I imagine he had to learn to carefully alter his accent, imitate RP used by his friends, and stop using his native slang terms (imagine snape saying ayup me duck. thanks that's all) ANYWAY I feel like that ties in somehow, he had to learn to control everything he said and how he said it so as not to give his true nature away, his connection to humble cokeworth, his muggle father, and to lily especially

finally, that line about disagreeing with snape on dementors has ALWAYS confused me because from what we know harry is right so where's the debate-- and this is a great explanation. it must be as you say, there must be an alternative method that involves blocking out emotion so that the dementors can't get to you, sort of like what sirius does to survive azkaban??? paraphrasing but "It wasn't a happy thought, so the dementors couldn't suck it out of me" like it's just a neutral, emotionless fact that sirius clings to. patronus vs occlumency is a great metaphor for harry and snape's differences... but also they're both protective spells, in the end. Interesting, thank you for sharing your thoughts!

this says a lot about Snape's character development for me. There are many parallels drawn throughout the series between Harry and Snape; obviously, they're very different characters but there are similarities too.

I think here Snape is talking about himself. The teenaged Snape we see in the Pensieve is very much like this- emotional, heart on his sleeve, easily provoked, a definite wallower in sad memories... weak. Adult Snape, though he retains some of these characteristics that do emerge in stressful moments (in PoA we see how angrily he reacts to Sirius's escape, for instance) on the whole is a great deal more thoughtful, reserved, calculating, measured.

I think that Snape at some point had to force himself to become this. I think he actually relates to Harry here, and is giving him advice based on personal experience. In my fic he begins to learn to control his emotions partially out of a desire to protect Lily; he's fully aware that she's his weakness (or really, his strength, viewed a different way) and that openly displaying any sort of emotion towards her at all makes her vulnerable to the likes of Avery and Mulciber, who will have the perfect weapon to get to him if they want to.

Severus doesn't have the advantages of his peers, he's not pureblood, he wasn't born into money. If he wants to join the Death Eaters and rise in their ranks, he needs to be subtle, cunning, careful. he can't afford to be careless and entitled like mulciber or bellatrix or even sirius. what he's got to offer isn't his name or his money, it's his sheer talent and cleverness. moving on:

When Voldemort decides to go after Lily this becomes even more important. Imo the reason why Voldemort believes that Snape only "desired" Lily is because that's what Snape told him. He lied to Voldemort's face and told him something probably disgusting tbh because that's the only way Voldemort would accept it and agree, if it was a selfish, callous request that Voldemort could understand. We can see evidence of this here:

Asking Voldemort to spare a mudblood because he was in love with her would likely not have gone over well- and as we know, Voldemort actually bore his request in mind, though obv didn't give enough of a fuck about Snape to follow through. Because although asking voldemort to spare her must have taken serious balls, Snape's mistake here was trusting someone inherently selfish to do something selfless for him.

Clearly he immediately realises this and goes to Dumbledore, which is when controlling his emotions becomes of paramount importance, because now he's working against perhaps the most highly accomplished legilimens of all time.

It's also interesting to me that Snape in this conversation is probably the character who is most forthright and informative with Harry in the whole of OotP until Dumbledore at the end; Harry actually learns a lot in this conversation. And Snape also kind of gives him credit which is interesting too:

like for Snape that's high praise lmao. A shame because if he wasn't so bitter (i.e. didn't wear his heart on his sleeve so much around harry) then he might have actually been pretty helpful to Harry and a decent teacher. Again, during the Occlumency lessons his unrestrained emotion brought up by memories of James is a hindrance. He defies Dumbledore's orders to teach Harry Occlumency because of his emotional response to SWM, as well as honestly doing kind of a shit job before that (by not being empathetic and teaching Harry in a way that would've been actually productive.)

At this point Dumbledore believes that Harry learning Occlumency and controlling his emotions is of vital importance; he turns out to be wrong about this. In Harry's case, it turns out to be his emotional nature that saves him- unlike Snape, who is the opposite. Snape's journey is about learning that some things are more important than his selfish need to give into his own emotions.

By DH Snape's learned this lesson fully; his old hatred for James doesn't stop him from doing what has to be done, from giving Harry the tools he needs. Even in the final moments of his life, he can look past James and see Lily in Harry- and, by giving Harry the information that leads to his self-sacrifice, he can let her go.

[chdarling]

Don't u think a doe is very tame for a fighter like Lily? Nothing against does and I know it goes with a stag.. but I always felt like Lily should have had a different patronus. Ginny had a horse for example. i felt like a unicorn would suit Lily since she's so pure.

Anon, for reasons I cannot and dare not explain, upon reading this my brain immediately started constructing a scene in which eleven year old Lily and Sev are in the library reading about the Patronus charm (because nerds) and start discussing what their patronus would be…

Lily: Mine would be a velociraptor!!

Sev: I think yours would be a unicorn.

Lily: Unicorns aren’t real. Wait…are unicorns real??

Sev: Yeah.

Lily (does a little happy kicky dance of excitement with her legs under the table, magic is SO COOL): Okay, why would mine be a unicorn?

Sev (going very red): I dunno…because you’re so…pure.

Lily: Ew, boring. I wanna be a velociraptor!!

Sev (nettled): What even is a velociraptor?

Lily: It’s a dinosaur, silly!

Sev: Dinosaurs are extinct.

Lily: You literally just told me unicorns are real. My patronus can be a velociraptor if I want it to be.

Sev: Fine. What would mine be?

Lily (thinks for a very long time): a pigeon.

Sev: a pigeon?!

Lily: I like pigeons.

Sev: no one likes pigeons.

Lily: I do!

Sev: if you’re a velociraptor, I want to be a velociraptor too.

Lily: We can’t have the same patronus, Sev. That would be weird.

…eleven year old Lily was silly and nerdy and inscrutable and no one can convince me otherwise. 🥰

[bi-snape]

I'm on tiktok and I've watched some videos that had either emotional songs or epic battle songs and they made me think of another au.

It's a crazy idea tbh and now it's gonna plaque my mind for sometimes.

Ok so basically this crazy scenario I have in my head is of course about Severus. Every scenario in my head is always about him.

Anyways here's what my mind came up.

So basically during the werewolf incident, Severus dies and Dumbledore covers it up. Tho somehow, possibly by lady magic or something, Severus comes back to life. Instead of him returning to Hogwarts he runs off and allows the world to believe he is dead.

Now you'll think he's living a peaceful life but come on that's just predictable. No, instead he goes on to kill people who hurt others. He basically wears the outfit he has in the movies minus the cloak and wears a mask that covers his face expect his eyes.

He basically shows people magic exist when he kills and the ministry is trying to find him, plus find out who he is. This continues for several years and somehow I haven't worked out the details, the ministry managed to surround him.

Severus has some sort of tornado surrounding him which is caused by his magic. He's injured and tired and knows he won't make it out. He's trying to figure something out and he then notices some step through the dust. And who he sees is someone he'd never thought he'd see again. (No, not Lily.)

He locks eyes with Mulciber (I forgot to mention that Sev's eyes turned purple when he comes back to life) As they look at eachother Severus asks Mulciber to kill him. Mulciber agrees but is hesitant at first because deep down he's loved Severus.

Tho he always denied it and refused to admit that when he first heard the news about Severus's mysterious death in their 5th he was completely heartbroken. Now here Severus was completely alive and asking him to kill him.

After several painful minutes Mulciber eventually casts the killing curse which ends Severus's eyes. Tho killing Severus isn't what's causes him to breakdown it's the smile Severus gave him when the spell was casted.

Instead of Severus's body simply falling to the ground, it does that thing that Emily from corpse bride does at the end of the film. The dust starts to settle and Mulciber falls to his knees. He regrets all his life choices and how he's treated Severus cause he never treated him like a real friend.

Around him people are cheering cause it's finally over. After sometime it starts to rain and Mulciber simply stares at the ground. He then pulls out his wand and stares up at the sky thinking back to a certain point in his life where Severus was telling him, Avery, and Evan about the patronus charm.

Severus had casted the charm and had tried to teach them how. Tho at some point Mulciber got fed up with it and said some hurtful words to him before leaving. Thinking back at that moment made his heart hurt.

He closed his eyes and took in a deep breath. He raised his hand and began to focus on all the memories he had in which Severus was smiling. All the memories consisted of him watching Severus laugh or smile with Lily Evans but seeing him happy made him happy. Even if he denied it.

As those memories flooded his mind he closed his eyes and casted the spell. He kept his eyes closed not wanting to open them. A few seconds later and he feels arms wrap around him. He opens his eyes and comes face to face with Severus.

He's shocked cause he's supposed to be dead, not here in front of him alive?

Mulciber takes a closer look and notices the faint glow surrounding Severus. He reaches a hand out and gently touches his cheek. Mulciber starts to tear up and breaks down again because he can feel all the love he has for Severus when he touched his cheek.

Everyone around him is shocked, because whenever a patronus is casted the form it takes is usually an animal. They never expected to see Mulciber's patronus take form of Severus and neither did he.

After that day Mulciber buys an old Manor and renovates it. He spends the rest of his life time helping those is awful living situation. He provides a home for those who need an escape or have no where to go. He helps them get back up on their feet.

He doesn't do it alone tho, everyday in the mornings he would cast the patronus charm. He's not exactly good with people or kids so Severus usually watches over them. Despite Severus being a patronus it seems he can achieve human contact.

So there are moments where Mulciber catches Severus carrying or reading to one of the children that he rescued or is combing a someone's hair. In these moments he can't help but wonder what would have happened had he treated Severus kinder, had he known what would happen that night Severus decided to return a book to the library which lead to his supposed death.

His heart aches with each passing day when he casts the spell and he wishes Severus was still alive and not just magic bundled together by his emotions that will fade at the end of the day.

[slytherinsnekxvii]

yk, for once, just once, at least, i would like to be able to go into the general tag for something i like and not have to sift through through endless hate posts, or attach the pro prefix to the same search every single time. anyways, here, have this itty bitty fic i wrote to make myself feel better after trying to find smth for one of my wips and coming across nothing but slander :) and i do mean itty bitty, it's 312 words of baby snily being silly :)

"It is! It is, because—because, no, Sev, listen," Lily says, idly plucking a leaf out of her hair as she continues to make her point. "We've figured out plausible scientific explanations for most of the spells we've done, it must be possible to find one for Patroni."

"The important word there is plausible," Severus says, closing his Defence text. He sets it aside before he continues. "As of now, in order to scientifically explain Patroni—"

"Sev?" Lily asks, when he cuts himself off.

"...Isn't it Patronuses?"

"No? Why would it be Patronuses?"

"Because it's always been Patronuses?"

"But, why?"

"What'd'you mean, "why"?"

"I mean why. If it's octopus, octopi, platypus, platypi, then, why would it be Patronus, Patronuses?"

"Because it's octopus, octopuses, platypus, platypuses, Patronus, Patronuses. It wouldn't make sense if it was octopus, octopuses, platypus, platypuses, Patronus, Patroni."

"What about radius, radii?"

"Radius, radiuses?"

"But, why?"

"Well, I don't know, I didn't make up the words."

Lily sits up. "What about that dictionary your mum has? Think it might settle this for us?"

"It might," Severus says. "I'll be right back."

And he does, in fact, come right back, dictionary in hand, as he sits cross-legged on the floor. It takes a moment to get to "O", but they do. "...Octopus, octopodes," Severus reads.

"Really? You're joking," Lily tells him, shuffle closer so she can peer over his shoulder at the dictionary.

"I'm serious," he says, angling the old book so that she can see.

"No, you're Severus," she says, and she can feel the disappointment in the sigh he lets out.

"Was that necessary?"

"Wasn't it?"

He shakes his head and keeps flipping through the pages while Lily scans the lists of words until she finds what they're looking for. "...Platypus, platypodes."

"So, Patronpodes?" Lily asks.

"Or Patronodes, apparently."

"Or... neither."

"Neither is good."

"Patroni and Patronuses it is."

[harrypotterandthefandomaccount]

Sucker, Part I

Request:  Hey, could you do a Remus x reader where James and Sirius Male fun of her in school and though remus doesn’t stop them she blames him just as much, and outside of school while they’re wondering the streets of London they bump into her only to see a totally different girl who seems to running around with a tough crowd and when school starts again remus tries to get to know her then after years of never seeing her again he finds she’s a teacher in Hogwarts and bois smitten (end it however :))

Warnings: bullying, one curse word

Note: you and severus have a platonic relationship!so i decided to make this into a 3 part series cus i have a lot of ideas for this. but yay I am finally starting to get back in the groove of things so expect more fics!!

-

You dragged your best friend, Severus Snape, by the arm to go outside into the courtyard to study for your next Potions exam. It wasn’t like either of you needed it, but being prepared was never a bad thing. It was your day off from classes, so naturally, you decided to be comfy in your study session - (enter your lounging/relaxed outfit here).

Severus stopped you by halting his feet, “do you see who is out there, dove?” His nickname for you came from your patronus, originality at its finest.

Looking outside the archway to the courtyard, you sighed. Of course, the Mauraders were there, being loud and obnoxious like the typical Gryffindor. Turning to Severus, you held the books in your other hand tighter to your chest, “Sev, I promise they won’t do anything this time around. Even if something does happen, I’ll take care of it.”

Your best friend shifted his eyes between you and the group of bullies, “are you sure we can’t just study in the library?”

“Pince told us to add some color to our skin, so no.”

With a shake of his head, Severus led you both to the other side of the courtyard, away from the Mauraders. Sitting down on a bench, you placed your books beside you and took your notebook out from the pile; “study notes first and then add anything from the textbook?”

“As always, dove,” Severus responded, a tense but genuine smile on his face.

Over with the Mauraders, Remus had seen you enter the courtyard with Snivellus and glanced down at his hands while Sirius was busy devising a new plan to get a date for the Yule Ball with Peter and James.

James stopped listening to Sirius when he saw Remus’ eyes wander, “lost eyes, Moony?”

Sirius halted his plan, looking around the courtyard until he spotted you sitting with Snivellus, “tut tut, his girlfriend is here with her little pet.”

Remus’ eyes shot up, “guys, don’t do anything stupid - they’re literally just studying.”

James shrugged, “it’s not stupid to go over and give them some company, now is it boys?”

Peter nodded his head, “plus, we want you both to have a wonderful relationship, Moony, and having Snivellus there is just not. . .how should we say it?”

Sirius snapped his fingers, “healthy.”

James opened his arms, “healthy, Remus.”

Moony stared at his friends, “she’s not even my girlfriend - and she hates my guts so you going over there - guys!”

James, Sirius, and Peter were already walking away to bother you and Severus, ignoring Remus’ groans of ‘Merlin, you never listen’s.

You looked up once you heard footsteps approaching you and Severus, sighing rather loudly as you saw who was coming towards you. Severus glanced up and put his nose back into the book he was reading, hoping he was to disappear.

“What do you boys want? Can’t you see we’re trying to study?” you asked, crossing your hands over your chest.

James smirked, arms opened, “now, lovely Y/N, we’re just here to warn Snivellus of something, that’s all. Hurry off, dearie.”

You scoffed, “whatever you have to say to Severus, you can say in front of me.”

Sirius put a finger to his lips before talking, “why we just wanted to remind little ol’ Sev here to stop bothering you as your boyfriend isn’t very appreciative of the attention you’re getting from him.”

Now you were confused, “my-my what? I don’t have a boyfriend, unless this is a sick joke.”

Peter spoke up, “sure you do! Our own Moony fancies you, and Snivellus here-” he took out his wand, hexing Severus and making him hang upside down “is ambushing on your little relationship.”

You jumped forward, punching Peter in the chest multiple times and making him drop his wand. However, Severus stayed floating as James laughed, keeping him up there and Peter shoved you.

Remus sprung into action, “Wormtail, Prongs, Padfoot, for the love of Merlin, leave them be!”

You kicked James in the shin, making him drop Severus. He snarled, “think just because you’re pretty, I won’t hex you too?”

Severus stood up quickly, “don’t you dare, Potter.”

You pushed through Severus, going right up to Remus and poking him in the chest, “I hope you know that just because you stopped them, I don’t see you any better than your little posse here. You watched everything, and only decided to jump in because I got a bitch push? You are despicable! All of you!”

Grabbing your books, you pushed through the Mauraders and helped Severus inside, looking over him to see if he had any scratches or bruises. Remus turned back to his friends, “are you kidding me, boys?” He dropped his hands back down to his sides.

James rolled his eyes, “she was being overdramatic, Moony. She’s friends with Snivellus, after all.”

Remus shook his head, “Peter, you shoved her.”

Peter let out a sigh, “yeah, well, she pushed me first.”

Moony let out a sarcastic laugh, “are you five, Wormtail? She’s a lady!”

Sirius chuckled, “that was pretty low of you, Peter.”

Remus glared at him, “you’re not any better, Padfoot. I’m heading back inside.”

The rest of the Mauraders chased after him, hanging over his shoulders and yelling in his ears that they were sorry and just wanted to help him out. As much as he hated to admit it, his friends weren’t as bad as they seemed. Sure, they chased you away but only for a little bit - Remus was still a sucker for you.

[snapeaddict]

Hi, have you ever thought that Sev's pantron was always be doe? He always looks more careful than others, he also seems more alert like a doe who is always a prey? But in the other hand his patron really did changed to Lily's because of his love but he never knew that because his always be doe until Albus told him (because that old man always has the wisest thoughts besides his manipulation).

Sorry, I am not the native so please understand the shortcomings. Thanks.

So let me get this straight, his patronus was always a doe but the fact it was a doe when he was an adult also reflects a change in his person due to Lily's influence? Personally, I have always thought his patronus was always a doe because I understand and relate to the deep, deep need for friendship and the change it can create in a person. To a child like Severus, it must have meant so much more? Possibly the one and only person in his whole world caring for him, being interested in him, willing to spend time with him, introducing him to the wonders of platonic love, friendship, empathy, childhood joys? I just think everyone needs someone's else positive influence in their life to thrive, no matter who it is and where you find it, and I understand so well the impact Lily had on his life. So I really think there was a deep connexion to her from the start and his patronus was always a doe for this reason, in his teenage years as he met her so young. I also think that even if the shape of his patronus did not change in adulthood, the meaning it had like you are implying, was different. It changed. Not only did this friendship gave him a purpose to survive and certainly saved his life in his first years at school, but it gave him the strength to turn his back on awful beliefs and possibly live a life consistent with his values and what he witnessed. If you meant that his patronus would have been a doe without Lily's influence, well I don't know, why not? In the end the concept of patronus is quite... Wobbly and takes its roots in a simplistic way of viewing animals (ie not individuals but a species apparently showing some human personality traits) or a traditional, symbolic way of interacting with nature that really leaves us with many, many possibilities. Interesting theory anyway!

Also I don't know what is your first language but if it's German or Italian or French don't bother translating in English if you have difficulties I don't mind at all! But I had no problem understanding, never apologise for writing in another language.

[alternislatronemhq]

Congrats, ELLIE, you have been accepted to AL for the role of SEVERUS SNAPE (FC: aneurin barnard). HOLY CRAPOLY, ELLIE! This app was absolutely fantastic! I couldn’t pull myself away from reading it and was just seriously BLOWN AWAY. This is everything I ever could have dreamed for in a portrayal for a character as central to the plot as Severus is! You truly have a gift and I’m so excited you’re here! Please send in your blog (no sideblogs for first characters, please) in the next 24 hours and be sure to take a look at our new player checklist. Welcome home (once again), we’re so excited to have you join the family!

OOC

name — ellie. age — 20+ pronouns — she/her. timezone — GMT. activity level — i’m not a very fast writer tbh, but i don’t have any other hobbies or rl obligations to keep me from rp atm so i should be able to maintain more than 3 paras a week.

IC Overview

name — severus tobias snape. faceclaim — aneurin barnard, louis garrel, richard harmon. age — 26. gender — cis male.

sexuality — demisexual, biromantic. He lacks the terminology for it, and simply regards sex as yet another social endeavor for which he is ill-equipped.

patronus — doe. yes, it still works. no, he doesn’t understand why or how. he is most certainly not pure of heart. the memory he calls on to summon the patronus is his first dinner with the evans family, where mrs. evans piled his plate high with steak and mashed potatoes and peas, and lily snuck her broccoli onto his plate discreetly while trying not to make a face, and petunia was spending the night at a friend’s house across the street and too far away to ruin the lighthearted atmosphere. they joked and laughed and cleaned the dishes afterwards. it was the first proper family dinner he’s had in his life.

boggart — voldemort. Not, specifically, for the man himself although he is a rather striking figure on his own – but rather for what the man represents to snape. Voldemort represents how far snape’s ambition and thirst for power and knowledge will take him if left unchecked. He represents a hungry and gaping and greedy part of snape that will take and take and take, and grow hungrier and greedier still, uncaring. Losing control in such a manner – allowing himself to be led astray by a mad man and his mad men, doing their bidding and spreading pain and grief and loss, thinking himself so righteous and vindicated – the worst parts of himself, unvarnished, laid bare for him to see. Snape has long since discarded any illusions of himself he may have entertained before the war. He knows the parts that make him up. He knows what he does and why he does it. He knows how far he will go without an anchor — and he fears being unmoored and unrestrained most of all. Fears what he will allow himself to do, without a pragmatic set of rules and ethics to keep him in line.

IC In Depth

personality traits —

+Loyal: snape’s loyalty is difficult to earn, but impossible to lose. He has a thorough, comprehensive, all-or-nothing approach towards loyalty. You either have it or you don’t. All of him or none of him. He will give you his soul – his strength, his work, his honour, his dignity, his life, his word – or he will give you nothing. Thus far, the only people who have earned his loyalty are lily evans and albus dumbledore.

+Sharp: snape is clever and perceptive, his intelligence owed in large due to the many hours spent in his mother’s company as a child, listening to her stories and her theories and her careful instruction. She was not a pleasant woman, nor a kind mother, but she taught him the power of knowledge at a young age, and the sharp glint of intelligence in his eyes matched hers.

+Hardworking: say what you will about snape’s character flaws – of which he has plenty, and of which there is quite a lot to say – but his work ethic has always been and will always be impeccable, beyond reproach. He never does things by half. He is a hard worker who spares no efforts once he sets his mind to a task.

-Antagonistic: he holds firm to an unpleasant disposition and hostile countenance. It is his nature to be wary and suspicious and to hold others in low esteem until proven wrong. Snape takes most attempts at social interaction with a grain of salt, expecting mockery and insolence and responding swiftly in kind.

-Bitter: snape’s biggest motivator is spite. He’s a man of well-groomed grudges, what can he say? growing up in poverty with a bitter mother and an unpleasant father, both of whom were uncreative in how they let out their frustrations and rather liberal in tossing about blame for everything that had gone wrong in their lives, had left him with quite an armful of ill-advised coping methods and a less than stellar personality overall.

-Selfish: it’s not that he’s incapable of love and affection. He is demonstrably and regrettably capable of both. He has, as well, displayed a certain capacity for selfless action when it came to his precious few loved ones. Sometimes. But, well. Well. It’s not his default. He spent many years with his head firmly stuck up his ass, seeing and caring about nothing but his own interests and his own ambitions and dreams finally being realized — and nearly lost the only thing in his rather pathetic life that held any meaning whatsoever. And he is still selfish by nature. Even in the years since he’d come to dumbledore to yet again pledge his allegiance to yet another all powerful and all conniving old wizard – the irony of which was not lost on him, not for a moment, rest assured – selflessness is still an installed feature that he must think consciously of before implementing. And, most of the time, it is not something he chooses to do.

-Deceptive: if snape was the sort to keep count of such things – and, as a spy, he most assuredly is – he would truthfully disclose that, in every relationship he’s built in his life since he was old enough for hogwarts, there is a layer of deception that must be adhered to at all times. An intermingling web of lies and half truths and omissions that must be observed with careful attention, lest the whole thing unravel and spill out his doom. He’s a spy. At least now it’s become part and parcel of who he is. At least, he now has a quasi-noble purpose to attach to the rather sticky threads of which he is – secretly – fond. He can admit, if only to himself, that he doesn’t know how to build a relationship without some form of deception to maintain throughout.

character biography —

PROLOGUE.

he stands on his tiptoes over the wooden chair, stirring with the ladle in both hands. clockwise, clockwise, counter-clockwise…. let the ladle rest against the side of the cauldron for thirty seconds. the liquid is two shades off. he adds a pinch of powder, and the color adjusts.

mam’s sharp eyes follow his every move. she nods, stiffly. tension uncoils from his shoulders. “when you get to hogwarts,” she says, brusque, “you’ll be at the top of your class.”

it’s not explicit praise, told more like a command, really, but it’s close enough. emboldened, he asks, “will i ‘ave friends at ‘ogwarts?” he looks up. watches. “lots and lots o’ friends?”

mam blinks. the silence stretches. she pats his head, drops her hand down to his shoulder. “of course, sev. lots and lots. now help me pack everything away before your dad comes home.”

ACT I.

can a place be both hell and home?

well, if it can be — if it’s possible to love and hate a place with equal intensity, if it’s possible to feel like a jigsaw puzzle slotting into place at last and still look over your shoulder and jump at every sound — if it is, then to severus, hogwarts was that place. the home that was unsafe, the home with danger at every corner, the home with no way out. no way out but through.

it’s not s’pposed to be like this, he’d thought, eleven and still a touch naive. this can’t be right. but what did he know about homes and safety, anyway? was Spinner’s End not the same, except smaller and with less magic? did he not look over his shoulder and watch his every step just the same?

being a halfblood matters, more than he thought it would. and being a slytherin matters, but not in the way he’d thought. a poor, dirty, halfblood slytherin with a nasty attitude and an uncouth accent stood out like a rotten stink. hogwarts was magical and whimsical, but it was just a place, just like any other, and the students were just students, and the bullies were just bullies. and sev was still sev, wand or no wand. hogwarts did not fix him and make him better. it did not give him friends on a silver platter.

what it gave him, instead, was knowledge. yes, he spent years the target of relentless bullying, made more enemies than friends and few acquaintances who were in between, but the library was his home. He devoured knowledge with a single-minded intensity, filled with such joy at learning new concepts and spells that it made everything else he had to put up with worth the effort. He badgered his teachers relentlessly with increasingly complex questions, and often times concerning lines of inquiry, and experimented with new spells and potions early on — first with lily, then without — filling notebooks with ideas and information and half formed thoughts. At the age of thirteen, he’d begun working on his own grimoire, writing down his own potions recipes and his modifications to existing potions. All the great potions masters have their own grimoires, why shouldn’t he start his own now?

He isn’t sure when his views began to shift. Somewhere along the way, the facade he’d put on for his housemates began to seep through the cracks and into the boy underneath. it became so much easier to hate muggles and then muggleborns, to blame them for everything that went wrong in his life, to use this hatred as an outlet for all his frustrations he already had with his own life.

By the time the dark lord called, severus was well and truly indoctrinated. It didn’t take much to convince himself that this was the right thing to do.

ACT II.

He takes the mark.

Things… escalate.

They ask him to do terrible things, and he does them fastidiously. He does not feel satisfaction or pleasure when killing and torturing, though he hardly lets that stop him from doing exactly as he’s instructed, to the letter, and sometimes beyond. Vying for the attention and approval of the man who held his soul in the palm of his hand, indifferent to it’s fate, careless in his handling unless the little halfblood proved himself useful. And he did. He proved himself clever, gifted, loyal, ruthless. He worked hard to earn his place, knowing the alternative.

It’s not like he doesn’t know he’s in a genocidal cult. At some point, even the most indoctrinated could see what this was. The dark lord wanted servants to do his bidding, not allies to share in the glory and the power. The dark lord was strikingly clever, imposing and powerful, and stark raving mad.

But severus was marked. He couldn’t put himself at risk, couldn’t think of stepping out of line with his master’s mark upon his arm. The only way out was through.

severus was thorough. he followed instructions to completion, with a single minded focus. he did his work with a professional detachment, a nonbeliever in the guise of a devotee.

And then, he came upon a prophecy.

ACT III.

The dark lord’s fall is a gift that severus doesn’t know what to do with. He’d spent so long treading a worn thread like a tightrope over the brink of hell itself, that the thought of letting his guard down for even a moment sends his every sense screaming DANGER! DANGER! DANGER!

He feels like a man who’s been running full pelt, nonstop, like he was running his whole life and suddenly the ground is pulled from beneath him and he’s free-falling into nothingness. Lily is safe. Unhappy, but alive, and for that he is more grateful than he could’ve ever imagined.

But he is alive, too. And for all his plots and schemes, it didn’t occur to him that he’d make it to the other end of this war in one piece. Not since he turned spy.

The question mark hangs over his head all the way through the chaos following the dark lord’s fall. Severus, sitting through trial after trial, feels as though his ears are stuffed full of cotton and his senses are veiled through with fog. Only in the aftermath of his own trial, when dumbledore rests a hand upon his shoulder and grants him a proud smile does severus begin to hope.

Dumbledore saves him. He gives him a home, a job, a purpose. He guides him through the darkest hour of his life.

Even through the fog, Severus can see it: the headmaster’s true intentions. He knows he must be of some use to the headmaster still, that dumbledore is simply working to gain his true loyalty. That all severus had really done on that stormy night was trade one master for another.

But dumbledore, for all his machinations, is still a good man. There are worse masters to grovel to, as he very well knows. And lily is safe, just as promised. It’s only right that severus pay back his due.

ACT IV.

Once he finds his footing, severus gets busy. He integrates himself with the remaining loyal death eaters as seamlessly as possible, works to maintain at least civil relationships with high ranking order members — with a few notable exceptions — and begins to, brick by brick, build his life from the ground up.

The following years are filled with quiet self reflection. Severus grows more critical of himself, of his actions, of his beliefs. He pulls apart his motives and his reasons for joining the dark lord, inspects his role in the war unsympathetically, the impact he’s had on the lives of others. He does not like what he sees. but he does not look away.

He’s created violent and dark spells for the dark lord during his service. Spells with no counter, or a secret one. Spells the death eaters all knew and used. If he had died in the war as he’d come to expect to, these spells would’ve been his only legacy. His only contribution to the wizarding world. unparalleled violence.

This is who he is. This is what he’s done. He cannot undo it, he cannot be forgiven. but he can strive to be… better. And he does.

beyond the waiting and watching and listening, severus shifts the bulk of his focus upon his work. He creates and tests potions with the needs of the wizarding community in mind, puts his brilliance to good use. He follows a strict code of ethics, to the letter, holds himself to task when it is not properly adhered to. He takes responsibility for the things he releases into the world. He builds himself a respectable reputation in his fields of study, his articles and discoveries published in peer-reviewed journals and papers, his work talked about in academic circles with something like respect.

As the whispers spread and the death eaters prepare for their next move, severus shifts to a ready stance. He has more to fight for — more to live for, now — than he had five years ago. He is ready.

plot ideas —

oh, god, i’m SO excited to explore what snape post-war would’ve been like if he didn’t lose lily. what happened in the books is that lily’s death and his role in it sent him down a spiral of self loathing, guilt, and suicide ideation – and he wallowed in his grief and his guilt for the rest of his life. the trajectory of his life after lily’s death shifted to protecting her son and serving dumbledore. he stopped thinking of his own ends and started viewing himself as a means to an end, that end being the physical safety of lily’s boy (disregarding, of course, the mental wellbeing of potter’s spawn) and while there was growth in his own views over the years i can’t help but think it was greatly stunted by his own grief.

what i want to explore with snape is growth. realistic, nonlinear, steady growth over the years after the war, where he becomes more critical of both himself, his motives, his thinking, and the impact of his actions on other people and the world. he grew up a precocious child with no proper adult guidance, and all his life lessons he’s learned through first hand experience. and like any other 17-year-old, he thought he knew everything. He was reckless and arrogant, and he made terrible choices confidently, with no regard to the greater consequences. post-war snape is painfully aware of his own shortcomings, is trying to be better, not for the sake of being a good person but for the sake of proper self discipline and self control. he never wants to lose control of himself and allow his ambitions and his greed to take him to such lengths again. he wants to have a more positive impact on the world around him, even if he himself is still an objectively bad person, even if he himself is still selfish and deceptive and eaten up by greed.

so how can a bad person be good? by doing good things, even if he’s doing it for the wrong reasons. and snape is doing it for the wrong reasons, he’s well aware of that. He doesn’t have the intuitive grasp of right and wrong that lily always had. He can’t simply do what feels right, as that never turned out to be the right thing at all. Instead, he does what he calculates as having the most positive impact on the biggest number of people, regardless of whether or not it feels right to him. He acts in the interests of the greater good.

It’s a very utilitarian approach. Not dissimilar to dumbledore, who took snape in after the war and was more or less his mentor figure the years following. but unlike dumbledore, snape does not disregard or dismiss the individual lives of people he comes across, is very mindful of his own personal impact in the individual lives of the people around him. in canon, snape is horrified at dumbledore’s plan for harry. dumbledore asks him how many men and women he’s watched die, and snape’s response to that is ‘lately, only those whom i could not save.’ this interaction perfectly encapsulates the differences in morality between the two men. snape is capable of making sacrifices for the greater good and strives to work towards ending the war, making moral compromises towards that end. but his faith in the greater good is limited. When it comes down to it, snape is loyal to people, not causes. And often, since he’s made the conscious decision to become a better person, risks his life for the sake of others.

Another thing i want to explore with snape is his interpersonal relationships. Because, god. Come onnnnnnnnn. His two best friends are lily evans and lucius malfoy. For fucks sake. Lily who cut ties with him when they were 16 and whose husband he is partially responsible for sending to an indefinite coma, yikes, and lucius, for whom he feels the most straightforward affection and who he’s actually quite prepared to stab in the back when the time comes. And it will come, soon enough.

He has….. Complicated relationships. And complicated views on intimacy. He has a tendency to separate his feelings from his duty, which sometimes leads to him doing terrible things to people he cares about. Lying, stealing, manipulating, etc etc etc. it does not mean, to him, that he cares about these people any less. Regrettably, he cares too much, and can’t stop caring once he starts. It does not mean the people he cares about are safe with him. And i want to explore that, especially in his relationships with lily and lucius, as well as his fellow death eaters.

Speaking of the death eaters. Snape was already a high ranking death eater before the dark lord fell, and he’d worked very hard the last five years to integrate himself irrevocably within the ranks of the remaining death eaters. He’d observed their dynamics and worked to make himself seem as loyal and irreplaceable as can be. No doubt he formed many a bond with many a member, not all of them built on lies. And he would take special interest in the hesitant, wavering loyalties, poking and prodding to see how he can use them to further his own position within the death eaters ranks. There’s a lot of potential for inner-politics and sabotage within the DE.

extra —

Mockblog @ sevsnpe.tumblr.com

headcanons:

Snape had a thick manchester accent growing up that was very quickly packed away and replaced with ‘respectable speech’ a few weeks into his stay in the snake pit. When he’s angry or emotional he speaks very slowly and deliberately, his voice dropping in octaves and growing very soft and precise. it becomes very difficult for him to keep control of his speech. He slips on occasion when he and lily are alone.

Eileen sold wonderful ailment-soothing ‘tea’ for her neighbours. severus helped her brew these concoctions regularly as a kid, when he was still too short to reach the tabletop without standing on a chair.

Snape looks up to dumbledore and seeks his approval. It infuriates him to no end, that so much of his own decision-making hinges on the older man’s opinion of him, that he cares what albus thinks of him at all. But after the dark lord’s fall, snape was lost and fumbling, trying to make sense of the world, of himself, of his next steps. He desperately wanted to be a better man, but had neither the tools nor the guidance to do so. if albus hadn’t taken him under his wing, he doesn’t know where he’d be now.

he’s a heavy smoker. he picked up smoking post-war and is not in any hurry to quit. he can stop whenever he wants to anyway.

he maintains a private library in his rooms at hogwarts. he’s as possessive of it and as territorial as a dog. he’s accumulated a very impressive collection of rare books and journals over the years, and a long list of contacts in the private book collectors and book sellers circles to go with. a disproportionate number of his books are highly illegal and officially labelled ‘dark’.

the bulk of his focus, after the war, is split between two things. integrating himself further into the remaining circle of death eaters, and his own personal research into the mind arts, potions, and dark magic, which he conducts in his capacity as potions master and professor at hogwarts. he’s made several discoveries in potions study and published multiple articles in academic journals over the last five years, building himself a respectable reputation and body of works within his field. beyond the fact that such academic pursuits are his passion, his work gives him tangible proof that he is capable of positive contributions to the world around him. that he is capable of doing good, even if he himself is a bad person. his work and his growing reputation gives him something to look forward to after the war. it’s something unrelated to the death eaters and to lily, it’s something completely his own. he is very defensive and protective of his research.

Once or twice a month, snape visits muggle london and spends a few hours in a public library. It’s calming, reading books to simply pass the time. He won’t admit this to anyone, but the connection he has to the muggle world is something he’s learned to accept and even take comfort in from time to time.

[averykieren]

hey isn’t that KIEREN AVERY over there? yeah that is HIM, standing there with the other SLYTHERINS. i’m pretty sure they’re in SIXTH year and i think i heard sybill saying they look like JACK FALAHEE… whoever that is! when she looks into her crystal ball she sees that they’re the EMBITTERED. anyway i’ve heard they’re pretty PERCEPTIVE and PRAGMATIC but kinda ENVIOUS and MANIPULATIVE too. apparently they’re a PURE BLOOD but i’m sure that’s not related.

GET READY FOR TRASH CAN MAN PART 2: ANGERY ASSHAT EDITION 

Avery is the Big Sacred 28 Family in Ireland so Kieren grew up in their manor house in County Meath

parents are Tyrus and Rosalie (nee Selwyn) Avery and he a younger sister Teagan  

giant grumpy scrooge of a boy he’s got repression and rage in equal measure

child of divorce, which i figure is probably kinda rare in pureblood society with Image being very Important and shit but his parents split up when he was in fourth year and Teagan was in her first year

Rosalie took teagan, pulled her out of hogwarts and whisked her off to france, leaving K behind to Be The Heir of the Family

K is very bitter about this

the family name is in danger because of this ~scandal~

K would much rather go into business than politics, he has an eye for talent, and is more interested in nurturing said talent in the hopes that he can use it for money or other types of personal gain

favorite person is severus snape bc he sees sev’s ingenuity and gifts with potions and spell creation and stuff and he is into it in a more than platonic way. 

incited the attack on mary last year to make lily upset and drive her further away from severus

hates lily but won’t go after her himself bc he knows sev wouldn’t like it if she actually got hurt

also generally prefers not to do dirty work himself but to get others to do it for him

someone: i’d die for you.

Kieren: then perish.

definitely a neat freak, gets rlly annoyed when the dorm is messy and sometimes will just clean it himself. his area is always very clean

h a t e s being touched most of the time

kinda volatile, very much a rattlesnake

which would be his patronus if he could produce one which he absolutely cannot nor will he ever be able to

idk i mean basically..................................... he sucks  ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Some Potential Wanted Connections 

rivals -- kieren is fairly intelligent and is proud of this fact, most likely would be an academic rival and he is very insistent that he be the best ??? 

childhood connections -- other purebloods that he grew up with. can be friends or any other type of connection 

talent -- someone who is talented in something maybe unexpected that kieren could think is useful and he may be trying to 

betrothed -- kieren’s father is also very perceptive knows kieren seems to have no interest in women romantically and appears to prefer men (he has not informed k that he knows but he does). wanting to cover this up, and wanting to claw the family name back up from the mess of a divorce he wants to get his son married off fast so he wants to set something up as quickly as possible

anything else people are interested in/looking for ???

[izzyaro]

Well done, you picked up on the fact that I haven’t read the books in two years and don’t have my copies to hand at every moment.

‘“We are, Sev, but I don’t like some of the people you’re hanging around with! I’m sorry, but I detest Avery and Mulciber! Mulciber! What do you see in him, Sev? He’s creepy! D’you know what he tried to do to Mary Macdonald the other day?’ Lily had reached a pillar and leaned against it, looking up into the thin, sallow face. ‘That was nothing,’ said Snape. ‘It was a laugh, that’s all –’ ‘It was Dark Magic, and if you think that’s funny –’ ‘What about the stuff Potter and his mates get up to?’ demanded Snape. His colour rose again as he said it, unable, it seemed, to hold in his resentment. ‘What’s Potter got to do with anything?’ said Lily. ”Excerpt From: J.K. Rowling. “Harry Potter: The Complete Collection”. Apple Books. 

Yes, I was mistaken, Snape didn’t laugh, he merely said that it was a laugh, implying that he found it as amusing as they did. More specifically, he thinks torturing people with Dark Magic is just a laugh. He doesn’t even deny it, but straight away deflects her attention onto James and the others because he knows he can’t offer an explanation that she would accept.

“If she means so much to you,’ said Dumbledore, ‘surely Lord Voldemort will spare her? Could you not ask for mercy for the mother, in exchange for the son?’ ‘I have – I have asked him –’ ‘You disgust me,’ said Dumbledore, and Harry had never heard so much contempt in his voice. Snape seemed to shrink a little. ‘You do not care, then, about the deaths of her husband and child? They can die, as long as you have what you want?’ Snape said nothing, but merely looked up at Dumbledore. ‘Hide them all, then,’ he croaked. ‘Keep her – them – safe. Please.”Excerpt From: J.K. Rowling. “Harry Potter: The Complete Collection”. Apple Books.

He didn’t even think about James and Harry. He didn’t deny Dumbledore’s words. He didn’t care about them. We’re not talking about Dumbledore in this passage, we’re talking about how Severus couldn’t spare a thought for the lives of the people Lily loves most until he was specifically reminded of it. 

As for Snape being obsessed, no, that isn’t the text but it is my interpretation of it. Someone who bullies an eleven year old child because he's the reminder that his love interest ended up with someone else has serious issues with letting go, and loving someone means letting them go if they don’t feel the same way. Snape wasn’t happy for Lily, he just hated James while continuing to obsess over something that would never happen.

Also @a-snarling-slytherin, I’ve found so much contradictory information on the Patronus Charm that you can justify practically anything, for example, that the Patronus might match that of a specific person because they are the one the caster is thinking of in that moment.

‘Chely: James patronus is a stag and lilys a doe is that a coincidence?

J.K. Rowling: No, the Patronus often mutates to take the image of the love of one's life (because they so often become the 'happy thought' that generates a Patronus).’ http://www.accio-quote.org/articles/2007/0730-bloomsbury-chat.html

Further example, Tonks’ Patronus changed to a wolf when she fell in love with Remus, but we never know what his Patronus is, and considering his feelings towards his lycanthropy it’s unlikely that his own Patronus would take that form. 

By the way, I can answer asks however I want on my own blog. I like Snape, he’s one of the most complex and fascinating characters JKR ever created, but he wasn’t perfect and his friendship with Lily wasn’t always a healthy one.

Do you consider Snape’s love for Lily to be love or an obsession?

I think it started out as love, but over time, and especially after the Mudblood incident, it turned to obsession. It's clear that he doesn't give a damn about her feelings when he laughs about his friends bullying hers, or when he's perfectly all right with Voldemort killing James and Harry.

[byronicbat]

I definitely see Snape (especially younger Sev) as being more emotionally vulnerable than Lily. Lily seems very sure of herself and what she wants, while Sev seemed very susceptible to his environment. I think hp fans don't really pick up how being relentlessly terrorized by The Marauder's would effect a kid like Sev. He became twitchy, and skittish, and defensive, always waiting to be attacked (probably because they were using the Marauder's map and the invisibility cloak to jump him) and always felt he had to hide...much like a fragile doe. Snape's later harsh exterior was cultivated. He used his sharp tongue, and developed a bullying nature as a defense mechanism, because IT WORKED. He probably felt stronger and braver because of it, and mostly because he could hide his feelings, and not give in to his *weaker* emotions, which left him vulnerable to everyone. I headcanon that he started to develope this first mask after the incident in Snape's Worst Memory, which would have been severely humiliating and traumatic for a 15 year old boy. He was exposed in every way, so in retaliation he began to hide. He had already began to create darker defensive spells, and probably started to literally hide behind his stronger Slytherin housemates like Mulciber and Avery. He probably did become darker, meaner, and more defensive. Underneath all of that what do you have? A boy who doesn't feel safe anywhere. Not at home, not at school, and whose only choice is to build a barrier around himself or get eaten alive. When I first read about his doe patronus, I had no doubt I was seeing the deepest and truest representation of his heart.

I know most fans don’t think think the doe patronus suits him, but I almost think it fits him even more than it does for Lily. That doe is his heart.

[snapeaddict]

Well, I read this all and read it as platonic love and deep loyalty and friendship. Severus always knew who (certainly despite herself) brought out the best of him, and the only person in his whole life who showed him care and love. Additionally, I don't understand why romantic love is considered "true love" as if friendship was a less strong and important type of love, especially to someone as isolated as Severus. It's actually the deep importance of friendship I read when Severus relaxes when Lily says she does not like James - to someone like Severus, having a friend like Lily must have been something he was consciously grateful for and holding on to, and seeing her go away, befriending someone that is so likable in the contrary to him (what a low self estime), must have been one of his greatest fears. Severus was fundamentally incapable of blaming Lily (because let's face it, she really isn't an angel either) and I don't think he would have been angry at her. It's actually quite telling to see he does not consider the possibility of Lily befriending/dating James as a betrayal from her part, but a threat for himself: he knew their friendship was the odd one out, not the possibility of Lily and James getting closer. At least this is how I read it.

It is also obvious to me Voldemort understanding the situation as romantic love (the most known and easiest way to look at a man and woman's relationship) doesn't make it romantic.

Tonks' patronus changed because of love; Harry's patronus however was linked to familial love. All types of love can thus shape a patronus.

I mean, when you read about James and Sirius' relationship and how Sirius talks about him afterwards, I am sure had they been of the opposite sex everyone would have assumed they were romantically involved.

All I want to say is that both readings are canon, and as I read your quotes it's just striking to me it's platonic, just as you think it's romantic - it's very interesting actually because there is no way to know.

On the contrary, I read their relationship as a friendship because there is evidence of it in the canon "I thought we were friends? Best friends?" "We are, Sev" whereas I feel romance (and platonic love afterwards) are up to interpretation.

Also, because it would be clever. Like, finally a man and woman's relationship portrayed as what he can also be: friendship. Platonic. Where romantic feelings wouldn't be the condition to the importance, value and meaning of their relationship - sometimes I think romantic feelings are a kind of validation most relationships seem to need, and shouldn't.

As someone who values a lot friendship and craves for it, who knows how much it means to finally have a friend as a child, I love this interpretation of their relationship.

I'll just add this quote from Balzac in Le Lys dans la Vallée: "(...) je la contemplais encore en éprouvant d'indicibles délices, tant les impressions reçues au matin de la vie laissent de profondes traces au cœur").

("I still contemplated her, experiencing unspeakable delights, so deep are the impressions left on us in the morning of life")

Don't get me wrong, either interpretations are fine! Just wanted to add my view because isn't it amazing we can read so much and so different interpretations into the same lines?

@thatawfulsnapeboy I figured it would be easier just making a new post because it’s kind of long. Also, all page numbers are in reference to my kindle book (not sure if they’re the same in print) or I pulled lines off the internet. 

Pg. 284. “Dumbledore watched her fly away, and as her silvery glow faded he turned back to Snape, and his eyes were full of tears. “After all this time?” “Always,” said Snape.”

The iconic line. But it’s not this line that implies it’s romantic. It’s the sentence right before. Dumbledore is crying. Dumbledore knows Snape loves Lily. But there’s the natural assumption that Lily’s been dead for nearly two decades now and Snape has moved on and is now protecting Harry because he owes Lily as he’s partly responsible for how her death played out. It’s natural to assume Snape isn’t in love with her anymore and feelings have faded with a person’s death. But the patronus….it’s why Dumbledore cries. He realizes Snape has never moved on and that his feelings for Lily have never faded into fond, platonic ones.  The intensity of the scene…I just can’t see it any other way that romantic. Snape is literally declaring his love for Lily. She’s his literal happiness. Dumbledore is heartbroken for Snape as many of us in the audience are when it comes to this scene. I don’t see another reason as to why Dumbledore would have cried other than realizing how in love Snape is with Lily. After all no one ever questions the devotion of the platonic friendships in the series. 

My mind here always went back to Tonks and Lupin. How Tonk’s patronus changed once she fell in love with Remus. Back in the 6th book I thought it was merely a way for the readers to pick up on the fact that Tonks had fallen for Remus. It wasn’t until the 7th book though that I realized it had been a setup for readers to understand that a patronus could be a manifestation of true love. That’s why we accept this scene and don’t start wondering about why Snape’s patronus isn’t a manifestation of his personality as it’s presented to us in the third and fifth books (and pottermore). Dumbledore’s crying coupled with the message we take away from Remus and Tonk’s love story is the ultimate clear message to me. 

Other lines that made me see romantic instead of platonic:

pg 284. Lot’s of Love, Lily (the letter Lily wrote which is missing the end piece and ) Snape took the page bearing Lily’s signature, and her love, and tucked it inside his robes. I could see the argument for it being platonic but it reminds me of keeping a love letter close as it’s a physical representation of love. 

pp. 276-78 (I believe)Snape’s whole face contorted and he spluttered, “Saved? Saved? You think he was playing the hero? He was saving his neck and his friends’ too! You’re not going to – I won’t let you – ”

“Let me? Let me?” Lily’s bright green eyes were slits. Snape backtracked at once.

“I didn’t m ean – I just don’t want to see you made a fool of – He fancies you, James Potter fancies you!” The words seemed wrenched from him against his will. “And he’s not…everyone thinks…big Quidditch hero – ” Snape’s bitterness and dislike were rendering him incoherent, and Lily’s eyebrows were traveling farther and farther up her forehead. 

Now with this passage you could argue that Snape is upset Lily would go out with the boy he considers his bully/archnemesis but those two bolded lines give the implication that Snape’s developed a crush. He’s upset that James likes Lily. If it were platonic it would be the other way around. Snape would be upset Lily would betray him like that but as we all know Lily doesn’t like James at all or given Snape any indication she would. When you add in the part about the “big Quidditch hero” (something not even relevant to why James is an ass) it makes it romantic because what he’s jealous of is in the ways James is “better” than Snape, or in translation, things about James that Snape sees as a competitive advantage over him in pursuit of Lily romantically. The passage ends with Lily and Snape leaving  “whole body relaxed and new spring in Snape’s step.” To me the implication was that Snape was happy to confirm for himself that Lily didn’t see James in a romantic light. 

I can’t quite remember which book it is in or if I’m remembering something that was in fanfiction over canon but isn’t there a passage where Voldemort implies Snape can have Lily and it’s implied to be romantic not platonic?

I really had fun with this. Even if this doesn’t convince you I haven’t done a text analysis in years so thanks for giving me the opportunity. 

[landing-amongst-the-planets]

Same! I always just see Severus as always having a doe patronus, same with Lily, same with James. It is a respresenyation of their soul, and isn’t tied to any of them. There are only so many animals, so I doubt every stag and doe patronus holders are fated to be together, when there are likely hundreds of them. Each patronus is simply a tespresentation of each person’s soul, and that’s that. Sev is cautious and sensitive, easily spooked and protective when needed, and has a good heart. Sometimes I think Sev is more compatible with a doe patronus than Lily is (mostly cuz everything about Lily strikes me as a lioness patronus holder).

i think snape’s doe patronus could be of his own, regardless of lily. the doe could represent his wariness, and his almost instinctual responsibility to protect harry, regardless of his own feelings about him. though it’s rarely shown explicitly, snape most definitely has a sense of empathy and emotional intelligence.

it’s the anger and sadness of his experiences that hide those qualities, but the compassion he shows for narcissa before making the vow, and the intervention he makes to save draco from immeasurable guilt shows that snape is much more like lily than he might seem.

[byronicbat]

@sneverussape

It ties in a bit to my fic. Maybe it’s because I also had a close friend/SO that I had a falling out with and always felt a soulmate type connection with, but it’s the vibes I get from The Prince’s Tale. There’s a fic I read where Harry mentions that Snape’s love is similar in some ways to Lily’s (He actually argues that ultimately it’s Snape’s love that saved the Wizarding World 🙃) and it got me thinking about their patronus’s (patronii??) and that maybe they had more in common than not. I get the feeling it’s their unspoken affinity that somewhat disturbs Lily, even though she insists they are best friends, but again it’s just a sense that their closeness is deeper than even they can understand. In a way Lily is always fighting against it towards the safety of familiarity and normalcy, but Sev’s darkness and unfathomable depth, his strangeness is something she feels acutely, even as it drives a wedge between them. I always found her aversion to his interest in the dark arts puzzling, because as children she accepted whatever information he shared with her. This is understandable since with the war growing, and with anti muggleborn sentiment escalating Lily would take Sev’s seeming Death Eater affiliated stance quite personally. What I wondered was if she actually saw beyond that though, and understood him, and that discomfited her. Lily wasn’t as soft or demure and fanon paints her and she always seemed impressed by something innate in Sev. I say all this to say that maybe they had more of a connection, this similar magic between them, than not. Something about the doe patronus fits Sev more in my mind than it does even Lily, and I think it’s kind of like a yin/yang thing like, the kindness/goodness (that Rowling’s insists that Sev gravitated towards in Lily, but couldn’t emulate) in Lily actually meets its match in Sev, as does the darkness that Lily senses in Sev. Does this even make sense?

I feel like I have this really unpopular opinion that Severus and Lily are soulmates and that their magic is connected. I wouldn’t even argue for contextual evidence, because the stacks are against them, but there’s something there, whether Rowling intended it or not.