#i like a lot of ur takes on her and homer

[lektricfergus]

and caleb’s used to having a younger sibling too AUUUGGGGGHHHH OUAGHHHHHHH screaming and hollering. begrudging younger brother homer. i think having A Role to settle into (older brother) would be good for caleb and he’d be more integrated in the group since like. they kind of have to pull the Nuclear Family act in some populated areas i think. even though i don’t necessarily see them as that

CALEB TREATED HOMER LIKE A KID JUST LIKE DI TREATED HIM LIKE A KID, WE MISSED OUT SO MUCH ON THAT DYNAMIC

[menelaiad]

Hi! I know your favorite character is Menelaus (mine too) and I wanted to ask you, what is your opinion about him in Euripides’ Oresteia? And in Euripides’ Helen? Because as I see, the Homeric Menelaus is a little different, and Euripides didn’t despict him as a nice character.

Thank you for your answer in advance! :)

hi, there!

heck yea! fellow menelaus stans unite, let's make jackets or smth.

UHHHHH i spoke about this a lot in my recent MA thesis and it's the foundation for my phd (or at least a big chunk of it) and yes i'm sorry this bitch is going off about her academics again.

so. euripides was athenian and it's fairly safe to say that the athenians altered menelaus characterisation on a HUGE scale and it was mainly euripides as he wrote the most works featuring him. and it's also fairly safe to say that euripides didn't like menelaus OR helen OR hermione simply because they were spartan and given the context of his time, he couldn't really be pro-sparta. so, he used menelaus' family in a myriad of ways to just mock ALL spartans and spartan culture. i won't go into that too much now and i'll focus specifically on the plays you asked about! :)

ORESTES (i assume you meant orestes? aeschylus did the oresteia but euripides just did this one?): so here we see .... menelaus being not very great with his family. but not in a mean way he's just .... useless .. coward like almost? he's a big fence sitter tbh. he doesn't wanna get involved in orestes' shit and that is painfully obvious. again. that's meant to make menelaus look shitty that he doesn't care about his family and his brothers death and his nephew literally having visions of hell BUT. personally? i dont blame him ASDFGHJK. man just got his wife back. got home. dealing with grief and loss and survivors guilt and maybe ptsd and shit .................... and then orestes turns up like 'help me fix my problems' BRO HE GOT HIS OWN DAMN PROBLEMS. and THEN they're like 'ok uncle that's cool. we're gonna kill ur wife and daughter though' LIKE LEAVE THE OLD MAN ALONE. i LOVE menelaus and agamemnon's dynamic. so i'm not saying menelaus didn't care about aga and aga's family. im NOT saying that. but (and i KNOW its my modern perspective) i can see why menelaus couldn't be arsed. and he wasn't even mean about it? he was just nonplussed. AGAIN the ancients would have HATED that, but my modern ass can relate tbh. and lets not forget. he's caught between a rock and a hard place. if he helps orestes, he risks greek wrath. which (in this play anyway) is already strong enough against him cause of helen and troy. so like. euripides has kinda put him in this impossible situation and then makes him the 'stupid funny lazy ass not helpful uncle' guy when he just backs out. which i think is unfair. AND TO TOP IT OFF. APOLLO COMES AND THEN TAKES HIS WIFE. AFTER EVERYTHING HE DID TO GET HER BACK. justice for this old man i s2g.

HELEN: OH HERE WE GO! SO helen is often referred to as a tragi-comedy which i think is very accurate. and euripides is using it to condemn war as a whole (athens had recently suffered a big loss) like if helen wasn't even in troy what was the point of the war? he makes menelaus very .... pathetic, for lack of a better word. and helen seems to take the reigns in their relationship, which would have been a huge no-no to the athenian audience. it would have made helen look domineering and unmanageable and menelaus weak and foolish. he also has menelaus cry a lot. cry and lament his losses as a king. again, the athenians would have hated a man crying. a GREEK HERO crying. but we have our 21st century vision and tbh ................ menelaus is fantastic in this play. he is so. real. he is so human. he is a man who is tired. who is lonely. who is heartbroken. a man who meets his wife who isn't his wife but actually is his wife ... and we're supposed to laugh at him because he's confused? he gets lambasted by so many characters and it's supposed to be funny and i think it is! i do think menelaus in helen is just .... an incredible character. he's so funny. he's so NORMAL. he reacts how you would expect a man to react. you see so many menelaus' in this play. menelaus defeated. menelaus in love. you see a menelaus in action when he comes up with the plan against proteus but also a man who respects his wife and knows when to shut up. i, much like the athenians back then, do have a giggle at menelaus in this play. but i don't hate him. it makes him all the more endearing to me and i love him.

these two menelaus' are (shockingly) two menelaus' that i like! i love helen's menelaus and i'm indifferent to orestes' menelaus tbh. but i think they're fine as portrayals and they make sense to me!

overall, me and euripides have a complicated relationship. some of his menelaus' i cannot tolerate. and some i adore. and i can actually connect his helen menelaus and his iphigenia in aulis menelaus to homeric menelaus. they're not identical by any means, but the way he behaves and his choices and stuff. you can see homeric menelaus in there somewhere, which is why i love them so much.

[talxe]

Reading the Iliad, Book 7 thoughts

This is my first time ever reading it and I know next to nothing abt greek mythology so if I interpret anything wrong by all means pls correct me

Im reading the Robert Fagles translation

The Trojan start wining a lil bit so Athena goes to find Apollo. Apollo tells her that they should start another one on one fight between the Argives and the Trojans bc that went sooo well the last time

Apollo picks Hector for the battle

Helenus tells Hector to go challenge one of the Greeks to a fight and he says ok.

Agamemnon and Hector tell both their sides to settle tf down and they do

Hector is like "Fight me, any one of you rn."

The rules are that whoever kills the other, their side wins. They are allowed to take their opponents armor upon their death. BUTTTT leave the bodies alone so that their respective side may give them a proper burial.

Hector you got a big storm coming.

The greek are kinda scared to fight Hector😭

So Menelaus is like "What the hell guys. You know what I'll do it." BRO UR INJURED

So then Agamemnon tells his brother "Even Achilles is scared to fight Hector....sit this round out."

Nestor starts giving a speech abt how the Greeks are kinds bitches and how if he was young again that he would fight Hector or whatever.

This makes a bunch of ppl stand up

But Diomedes is one of them. I immediately shouted "JUST SEND DIOMEDES."

They draw lots and Ajax the greater ends up wining the draw.

WHYYYYYYYYYY

Homer likens Ajax to that of Ares so I have to assume he's a bad ass.

I just feel like Dio could have ate this battle

Hector is like "Holy fucking shit this guy is HUUUUGGGE." But he cant back down now.

And Ajax tells Hector that he just here bc Achilles is still crying abt something that happened 6 BOOKS AGO

So Ajax and Hector start fighting.

By the way how strong are these spears that they pierce through solid bronze shields on the regular???

Ajax gets really close to spearing Hector one time.

Hector does end up getting nicked on the neck however.

Then they start throwing rocks

Apollo saves Hector at one point

Just as the fight starts getting good two ppl, one from the Greek side and one from the Trojan side stand in between them.

And they say "Hey we're not getting anywhere, plus its late so lets just stop."

WE JUST GOT STARTED THO????? This one fight could end the whole war whhhhyyy are you stopping it

So Hector and Ajax stop fighting and call a truce by exchanging gifts

All the Trojans think that Paris should give Helen back but Paris says no but he will back back the stuff that he stole plus some.

Troy sends a messenger to tell the Greeks this.

Diomedes is like "Yeah no♥️."

Both sides bury their dead before they start fighting again.

Poseidon and Zeus are watching this and Poseidon decides that he hates the Greeks bc they didnt offer the gods bulls or something.

The Greeks make the offering they forgot and then the book ends

[avelera]

Hi! Given sanctuary anon back to rave about your fic in your own inbox. I just had a chance to catch up and!! 1) your scene with hob and Calliope was so good! I love the nuance it brings to the situation. It's actually one of my favorite things about your fics, in a lot of shorter fics side characters like Calliope end up as very one note "my wife left me" and that's it (and it makes sense if the fic isn't about her) but I love that you take the time to unfold them all so well? I see your posts sometimes that the little moments and conversations really ping up your word count but I'm really loving it. and the dialogue was so??? Like she reads as a godess! Everything she says sounds like it fits into the conversation but also like it came straight out of an epic spell (esp when she was urging hob to defy dream!) And 2) Jessamy!! I love this take on their relationship so much, (and then I remember ep 1 and fuck myself up) even if given sanctuary isn't meant to deal with that timeline, actually being reminded that Jessamy was important to dream, was someone he knew and trusted is so heartbreaking. It happens so early in the show before you really understand the full implications. And don't even get me started about dream at the grave or this ask will be twice as long as it already is (Also i just saw Ur post about the next chapter, Def looking forward as well)

I mean, as far as the Ask being twice as long, don't threaten me with a good time! LOL I have a personal rule that I can't really talk about parts of the story I haven't written yet, otherwise I won't write them, but I could talk about this story for hours (obviously, I write out the Behind the Scenes post to keep myself and others from going insane from how much I want to ramble about it).

As for Calliope, thank you! She was always planned to stop by, from the moment the Naxos arc was planned she was the natural climax of it. My undergrad thesis was on whether or not the Trojan War took place historically, so you could say I was predisposed to be a bit of a nerd about "Homer's Muse" (notwithstanding my own personal adoration of her) so it meant a lot to me to try to convey a goddess, the Muse of Epic Poetry who originated the story I built a good chunk of my academic career around.

As for Jessamy, like Calliope, she was almost a character I had to build myself since we see so little of her broader personality in canon? We get tidbits and hints but a lot had to be invented whole cloth. I will say, I wouldn't introduce Jessamy in such detail only to default back to canon. We will see much later how the events of "Giving Sanctuary" avert certain elements of canon, including Jessamy's death, but we'll get there when we get there. And we will be seeing her again :) But it really means a lot that she came across as someone important to him! That was the real goal, to show that affection.

Thank you!

[my-name-is-apollo]

You mentioned apollo having a rough childhood in ur earlier posts and I’m a little confused bc I thought after he was born he went to Olympus. I love ur blog btw

No, he didn't really go to Olympus. He seemed to have spent most of his childhood on earth, on Delos. I think his early years weren't completely sad, there are definitely cheerful, adorable moments and I'm sure he had some good memories from those times. It's just that there's a lot of details given about the sufferings he (and Leto and Artemis too of course) had to go through:

- If you take into account Callimachus' hymn to Delos, Apollo was already fully conscious in his mother's womb. He could talk, feel everything that was going around him when Leto was being persecuted by Hera and team (it's even specifically stated that Apollo was "sorely angered" that no one wanted to help him mom).

- After their birth, when they were travelling and were thirsty, the peasants of the city didn't even allow them to drink water. If you read Ovid's poem, it's especially sad because there baby Artemis and Apollo stretch their hands to show that they're thirsty and request for water, but the peasants simply don't care and start throwing mud at them.

- there's also this myth where Artemis and Apollo get kidnapped by some dogs when they were infants, and then were later discovered by some shepherds who heard the whimpering of the twins (poor babies! 😢)

- And then, there are many artworks and a couple of texts that show Apollo slaying the Python when he was still a toddler/slightly older than a toddler. It's said that shortly after that he also had to kill Tityus who tried to violate his mother (this time with the help of Artemis).

- Lastly, in Homeric hymn to Hermes, Apollo says that he learnt the art of pebble divination while he was "yet a boy following herds" and that "my father paid no heed to it". I'm not very sure what it's referring to but 1) it could be about Apollo's exile after killing Python, where he had to serve as a herdsman 2) in case this isn't referring to his exile, then it shows that Apollo wasn't on Olympus, he spent his childhood on earth being a cowherd, learning divination, and by the sound of it, it looks like he wanted his father to notice him but Zeus didn't (which is kinda sad but probably for the best? Zeus giving him attention would have annoyed Hera...). After killing Python, Apollo then spent the next few years in exile, servitude and going places to get purified (Gaia also messed with prophecies so Apollo wouldn't be able to hold authority over prophecies, and according to Pindar she straight up wanted to throw apollo into tartarus)

The attacks on his mother before and after he was born, the way Zeus didn't really do anything to help Leto at any point...it must have really impacted him. He not only had to defend his mother that way, but was also punished for rightfully defending her. So yeah. It's not like he didn't have some good times, but it's just that...there were more difficulties than happy times. And it was only after his purification that he was allowed on Olympus.

[mythologymadness]

@asssneksual asked for stuff about Atlas.

Alright, admittedly, i love the Titans. Chthonic things and Titans. I dunno what it is but a deity, a being THAT old? So interesting. Atlas is a Titan i regrettably DON'T know a lot about.

Now onto Atlas. So. He's this big strong dude right? Yeah! Kronos likes him and all is well with the Golden Age of Tyranny!!

Atlas was the leader of Kronos' army. He was known for being strong, good at fighting and bestie. This man could fight forever. Bestie's the Titan of endurance. That's like. Doing stuff for a while and not being tired

Due to supporting Kronos, Atlas was punished once the gods had won the Titanomachy. Unlike the other Titans, most of whom were cast down into Tartarus, he had a different punishment.

Atlas holds the sky, not the earth. This is a common mistake and I'd like to explain why!! In 'ancient' art Atlas appears to be holding a globe. This is a lie as most of the Ancient Greeks did not believe the world was spherical, MUCH less in Homer and Hesiod's time. Most of Ancient Greece viewed Gaia as a plate.

After Ouranos was disposed of, the sky could no longer hold itself away from Gaia and proceeded to try and fall closer to her. Thus, Kronos set Hyperion, Iapetus, Koios and Krios to the east, west, north and south respectively. They are the Pillars. Their existence made sure the sky stayed away from Gaia. Now jump forward to the aftermath of Titanomachy. The pillars are in Tartarus. There is absolutely *zilch* stopping the sky from crashing down to earth and destroying everything.

Fast forward, Zeus and co using their brains and looking at who's the strongest. Their best bet is *probably* Kratos, the god of strength, but he's Styx' son so out of the question, so the next best guy is Atlas. Atlas is chained under the sky on Othrys whilst he holds it up.

Now that we've gotten that part out of the way let's get into fun things.

Atlas is *also* attributed to teaching man how to map the stars, thus be able to sail, and just general astronomy or astrology or whatever the damn thing is called. Probably both tbh. (Imagine Atlas being like "mmmm of course you're a male scorpio")

This comes into play when you look deeper into his myths. Atlas was not always a Titan. Sometimes he was just some dude. Just some basic ass dude talking about stars and walking everywhere. I dunno much further into that but if y'all want me to research it i will.

Atlas also helped our good pal Heracles! What a fucking bummer! i hate that guy! Heracles got him out from under the sky, held it up, had Atlas get the apples because his punk ass was too short, then tricked Atlas into taking back the sky.

So... I hoped that answered your question? If not feel free to lemme know *in an ask* what u and ur mom were fighting about over Atlas and I can directly answer!!

[lovenona]

LONG ask ahead, sorry T^T

*arrives in a hurry after 2-3 days* *slow, appreciative clap at the ted talk* sweetie, have you got any idea how much i adore hearing you ramble about the creation process??? seeing the whole love and dedication you hold for the odyssey makes my day! (and nooo, i'm totally not reading it again bc i want to have all of it in mind for tomorrow and bc it inspires me to no end hahaha what do you mean :) )

here comes yet another question: what kind of powers do you possess to write so beautifully. your writing literally punches me in the gut every single time, even the simplest of things!! it's hauntingly beautiful and i'm living for it!

(and another one) how did you find out how the odyssey was going to end?

also, it's rambling time because i've been thinking. (i do that sometimes.) each chapter title is a reference to a greek myth, and, in particular, odysseus' myth (no clue if i've written his name right, i've always knew him as "ulysse" in my mother tongue ^^;). and so my brain went: oooh nice, greek lore ^^ and then: yo wait. hold up. which brings me here: analysing the chapter titles. (bear with me please, and feel free to ignore my enthusiastic rambling/correct me if i'm wrong which i probs will)

so first, we have the prelude. david and calypso. while i'm sure david has his importance it's almost 1 am as i'm typing this so i'm going to focus on calypso. poor nymph is stuck in an island because of the will of gods for a reason i've forgotten. but here's the catch: while she cannot leave, others can come to her (good ol' odysseus for instance) until they leave her all alone again. and the cycle unfolds again and again. which brings us to a nice parallel with reader's situation at the beginnig. she, after all, is stuck on an island with no way out but stories. comes the dilf supreme toji aka an odysseus of sorts, until he leaves her. so she's alone again. calypso there illustrates a passive state of sorts. she cannot leave, or so she thinks: while she wants to, we don't see her try per se until sukuna comes in.

ah yes. sukuna’s arrival. chapter title: neptune’s hands. Neptune, god of the seas, all powerful, also known as Poseidon absolutely terrifying if provoked — which is something Odysseus did! well, man is smart enough not to do it to his face. but he did stab a cyclope, which happened to be neptune’s son. son who swore to a haughty Odysseus that he’d pay for it. in consequence: instead of going back to Ithaca without that much of trouble, Neptune goes: nope mate, and promptly sabotage his return (with a storm who leads his ship astray if my memory is correct). Neptune serves as a catalyst in here, to properly start the action. and it so happens to be sukuna’s role! he is, as well, the one who starts reader’s journey — well, odyssey in this case ;) — by making her this offer. plus, if we consider reader as being calypso, a nymph, and sukuna as being Neptune, a god, it shows their difference in power. sukuna is a fearsome curse, captain whose name is enough to strike fear in the cruellest pirate, who can and will kill reader should he get bored of her. reader is but a printer’s apprentice, so weak compared to him it hurts.

ah, yes. the narcissus pool aka siren gojo, aka me simping so hard for this man I might squirt with the mere mention of him. yes, siren gojo is that powerful, feel free to lure me in with them baby blues sweetie *blows him a kiss* hem. anyway. long story short, an oracle said: if narcissus sees his reflection, he’ll die. people prevent him from seeing himself. ofc man is so handsome it hurts and has women and men alike running after him, including a nymph named echo. he rejects her. hera is somehow involved in the mess and makes it so that he stumbles upon a river and sees himself. entranced by his beauty, he desperately tries to reach himself and stays near the river until he dies. this one is a bit trickier (especially considering I’m writing this as I go with no coherent preparation whatsoever but damn if I’m not having fun). but. *proceeds to read it again* *sighs in ‘why the hell ain’t siren!gojo real pls sir take me’* anyway. it’s never mentioned in narcissus’ myth, but I’m pretty sure he was tempted to look at himself. at least once, considering he could wonder why on earth all those people kept falling for his looks. (or he could be pretty dumb. let’s say he isn’t) so he’s tempted by his own reflection. just like reader’s tempted to follow segsy siren gojo. he doesn’t up until hera is involved and ends up seeing his reflection. he falls. not literally, but in love — with his own self. here it’s different (and the reason why i’m strugglingTM to gather coherent thoughts). gojo is the very embodiment of this temptation — so he acts as narcissus’ reflection here. he’s the one seducing reader, the one luring her until she falls in the waters, just like narcissus did. she didn’t die though, unlike him. (thank you sukuna. I guess. yes I would’ve given my life for gojo to consume me in both ways and??) now, this is very simp-tainted (sorry bout that ^^;) and the thing I’ve noticed is this: narcissus isn’t a character in the og odyssey. could it be bc to my absolute despair, gojo’s not as much of an important character as sukuna and toji? only you know!

(the hades, psyche analysis comes in tomorrow *looks @ time* *sees it's 1 AM* well, later on! have a lovely night/day!)

- the LRE (who's very happy tumblr allowed her to do paragraph breaks/to have a pirate history book recommandation! thanks about that one btw, it'll come in handy for a ff of mine (yeah it involves pirate gojo))

wait this is so precious n thoughtful oh my gosh 😭 thoughts n vibes under the cut :’) 

first of all THANK U!!!??? ur making me blush out here omg my hEART 😭 

as for ur first question, ur SO SWEET n IM LOSING IT bye i genuinely don’t know i just scream and throw a bunch of commas and metaphors everywhere and somehow things happen 💀 i read a lot (english major vibes) and it’s very helpful because i tend to imitate writers/phrases/books that inspire me while i'm figuring out how i want to write !! 

secondly: how did i figure out the ending of the odyssey??

answer: i think i just stumbled across this one 😭 i was brainstorming w my bestie (@/suedebunn) n she originally suggested a different version of the ending that i was like “oh wait” and then i played with it for awhile until i arrived at the version i have now ! i want to tell u more about how i arrived from point A to point B and what the process was but i will withhold because i am not giving anything away >:)

onto ur TITLE ANALYSIS!! this is SPECTACULAR! ur pretty much on the nose for all of them god damn i don’t have much to add :’) i’ll give u some of my takes tho!!

david and calypso – ur absolutely on the nose for the calypso aspect; david’s just a passing nod to the pirates of the caribbean portrayal of davy jones and the doomed relationship between him and calypso (mirroring the doomed relationship between toji and reader since he leaves them) 

neptune’s hands – yes! yeah! sexy! pirate sukuna is being compared to a sea god!! also a minor teaser but sukuna’s hands are important symbolically ;-) 

narcissus pool – ur brain is so big here god damn 🤲 narcissus is more of a loose reference to the idea of pride/ temptation and also hollowness/mirages (the emptiness of a reflection versus the tangibility of the real thing) so it’s not immediately a reference to the odyssey itself or even the myth (i'm taking creative liberties bye homer) but probably the best entity to use when describing gojo – the dichotomy between pride/emptiness is a lot more apparent in part 5 

gosh thank u sm for this!! excited to see what u have next!!!!!!

[cavaliant]

(`･ω･´) can i ask this for ur entire cast mayhaps......

(`･ω･´) : What does your muse completely gush over?

Under a cut because N be out here wilding ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ These will be of varying lengths/degrees of effort…

—

Asaello: I know this is obvious but like. Bows. Even if you count out his job, he is still really proud of the sheer amount of work he put in to be as skilled at archery as he is today (at least until he joins Seliph’s army, where the pride wars with a slight inferiority complex lmao). He can tell if a bow is well-made, if it’s worth the money, and is probably the type to call a really good bow a “beauty” as he inspects it or cleans it or something. Daisy probably teases him about this mercilessly.

—

Beowolf: Feisty gals. He is so weak for them 😔

—

Diarmuid: I’m not really sure–he likes a lot of things well enough, but he doesn’t really have one big passion beyond “helping” and “peace”. He envies the passion and sureness of path his friends seem to have sometimes.

—

Fergus: Food, especially if it’s free.

—

Fred: Idk if I’d call it gushing but if he likes you/thinks you’re a great person he’s happy to expound upon your virtues at length if the situation calls for it. Even if he literally just met you (cough Leif cough).

—

Homer: Well…pretty girls ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Sometimes he’ll complain about how unfairly pretty some guys are too, but it’s usually girls.

—

Jamke: The natural environment of Verdane–the animals, lakes, mountains, forests–he really loves the land of his home. He won’t say much, but he also appreciates nature in other areas as well–natural beauty always fills him with a quiet sense of peace and wonder.

—

Lachesis: It might seem stereotypical for a princess but like…shopping…before joining Sigurd’s army, she was pretty well-off, and accustomed to a certain amount of luxury. She voluntarily gave it up to fight as part of Sigurd’s army, but there’s still a part of her that misses the comfort of being a princess and not having to worry about baths or clothes or food.

Later when she’s on the run with the kids, it’s not like she really has the money to go out looking for frivolous clothing or trinkets like she might have when she was younger…though she’s a more practical and more world-weary person now, she still misses her old life, when all she cared about was which new ribbon or dress she wanted or when she would get to have tea with Eldie again.

—

Machyua: Axes…swords too, but she really takes to her new weapon type after promotion lmao. Also buff women.

—

Ranulf: Fun new experiences, and also about people he likes.

—

Reinhardt: He’s also a guy who I’m not sure would gush over anything. He specifically laments his lack of passion/will, and as he grows older, nothing really makes him truly excited. If we’re talking people though, he’ll absolutely gush about his master at length, both to their face and to others (as we see in his Heroes lines ¯\_(ツ)_/¯).

—

Thor: Soft/fluffy fabrics, new food he hasn’t tried, innovative ways of using magic he hasn’t seen before.

—

Tibarn: Naesala calls him a “Serenes fanatic” at one point so :/ Ok serious answer now. I guess his country? He’s proud of it! And he seems pretty happy to tell Ike all about why he should visit it and what great food they have there.

[we-keep-odd-hours]

#di i think has put herself in a motherly role on purpose though. to some degree#someone’s gotta look out for those crazy kids#i like a lot of ur takes on her and homer#in which she can be in that role without falling prey to the fandom curse of like#putting every woman character in a mother role#bc she is there In The Movie#and she still has a lot of her own shit going on (via @lektricfergus)

Yeah!!! she doesn't really seem to fall into the mom role because "you're the girl so you're the mom-friend/brain-cell" or even the wendy-darling-to-the-lost-boys since Jesse brought her on (however it happened) for himself, and she took it upon herself to be that kind of figure.

You'r right Caleb, definitely would have settled better into the family if he was looking at them like that, a family, instead of...well, a group of serial killers who kidnapped him. When he FINALLY seems like he's one of them (Mae's own words!) he's treating Homer like a little brother and has some kind of mutual respect with Severen; Jesse calls him 'son,' which!!!!!!!

Sure, Caleb would have been a vampire and eating people, but at least his personality would have improved if he could have become the middle brother, and had Severen to keep him from becoming too insufferable on one side, and Homer on the other giving him a sense that he still had someone to look out for.

I don't really see them fitting in exactly into traditional family roles, especially not a stereotypical nuclear family, but I do think that they see themselves as a family.

CALEB TREATED HOMER LIKE A KID JUST LIKE DI TREATED HIM LIKE A KID, WE MISSED OUT SO MUCH ON THAT DYNAMIC

[menelaiad]

ik you've talked about it before but tumblr blog search on mobile sucks ass so if it's not too much of a bother could you redirect me to your posts on why you dislike emily wilson?

i've never made a post on it. but, here you go:

as a translator? i have no issues with her. her translations are pretty good. so her 'work' i don't have a problem with. don't get me wrong, sometimes i think she toes that dangerous line of 'women good. men bad. feminism.' black and white line very finely. it's a lot more subtle than most modern classicsts but yKNOW.

my issue comes from her introduction to the odyssey. so it's her introduction. her own thoughts. not a translation of something. or outside influence. HER introduction. she says:

The second is piled high with newly acquired treasure, brought by blustering, self-pitying Menelaus. As Menelaus pompously declares ... we meet the beautiful and frighteningly intelligent Helen back home in Sparta, with her wealthy, blustering, and rather less intelligent husband, Menelaus. ...and the rich, narcissistic, uxorious Menelaus.

she then, in book 4, translates the original text in which menelaus is NONE of these things. the only thing he's guilty of really, is the rich thing. cause telemachus is all like 'damn bro ur loaded'. but menelaus is not arrogant about it. he's not smug. he's not narcissistic. he literally says like 2 lines later that he would give away most of his wealth if it meant those who died at troy could come home.

'self-pitying' WHERE?! he cries because he feels GUILTY. the tears are not for him. they are the for the men who died at troy. i'm not getting quotes because it's literally in book fucking 4. he is NOT feeling sorry for himself he is MAD at himself for troy. the only thing i can THINK where he even links his tears to himself is because he says something like, 'every time i think of them i cry because i miss them all' or smth like that. he's not crying for HIM.

'rather less intelligent husband' - you know my feelings on this. menelaus is not stupid. helen is just very smart. and THATS FINE. i love helen being the brains, i'm not against a smart woman and her husband not being as smart. but like. because he doesnt recognise telemachus straight away? or the bird omen? he's stupid? really. we're gonna measure his WHOLE intelligence on that?

'uxorious'. menelaus loves his wife and that's pathetic and funny apparently? tell me. does she describe odysseus this way? hektor in the new iliad translation? i dont think so. 'excessive love their wife' that's what uxorious means. oh im sorry. forgiving ur wife and building a relationship with her and trying to move on together and being nice to her .... that excessive now??? thats??? bad???????

she literally takes menelaus' shining moments in the odyssey. him feeling guilty and remorseful. him showing how haunted he is by the war. him caring and loving helen despite everything. the fact that he is a compassionate. kind. loving man (in comparison to most homeric men) ----- and uses them to insult him. and it just GENUINLEY baffles me. because she wrote that introduction. and then four books later is ENTIRELY proven wrong? im so-----

dont get me wrong. some of this is just very pettty 'you're wrong about menelaus' anger. but some of it is BAFFLEMENT at the fact that she has this in her introduction, those are HER thoughts. and then when you actually get to the text of the odyssey from homer. she is wrong. cause she can't change those greek words too much. translation is a tricky mistress, sure. but she cant go and say 'then menelaus didnt care for those men' because that's just outright WRONG. she has to translate, as faithfully as she can, whats there. and whats there is NOT what she claimed in the introduction.